Mazel Tov, Hillary!
Israel's supporters are breathing a sigh of relief after today's announcement. (See also Claudia Rosett on Awaiting Susan Rice at the U.N.)
President-elect Barack Obama made it official Monday, naming former rival Hillary Clinton as secretary of state.
Since her name first surfaced, the idea of Clinton at Foggy Bottom has been greeted with enthusiasm among U.S. Jews and in Israel. While leftwing Democrats have fumed about the return of the reign of Clinton — both her own and that of numerous advisors — the reaction from Jews both here and abroad has been overwhelmingly positive.
During the Democratic primary campaign Clinton was a favorite among Jews both domestically and in Israel. During the campaign she often played the role of pro-Israel hard-liner while Obama hinted at a more “even-handed approach” to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. She attacked then-candidate Obama’s willingness to meet unconditionally with Iranian President Ahmadinejad. She also criticized his opposition to the Kyl-Lieberman Amendment. (He subsequently changed his stance in a speech before AIPAC after sewing up the nomination.) Clinton appeared in front of AIPAC in June trying to bolster her former opponent’s pro-Israel bona fides.
That enthusiasm continued among conservative ranks once her name was put in play for the secretary of state position. Jewish Republicans ranging from former John McCain aide Michael Goldfarb to Henry Kissinger encouraged the nomination. Clinton, they perceived, would ensure President-elect Obama would follow a tougher foreign policy course, one which would be more inclined to support Israel’s security concerns.
Sen. Joe Lieberman, stalwart defender of Israel and John McCain’s staunch defender, had also urged the pick.
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Jennifer Rubin is PJM's Washington, DC, editor. She also blogs at Commentary’s Contentions.
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62 Comments
1. Instapundit » Blog Archive » JENNIFER RUBIN: Mazel Tov, Hillary!:[...] JENNIFER RUBIN: Mazel Tov, Hillary! [...]
Dec 1, 2008 - 8:31 am 2. Letalis Maximus, Esq.:The Hard Left can howl all they want but the term “Useful Idiots” (whether accurately ascribed to Lenin or Stalin or whomever) has been in the public lexicon for a long, long time.
Dec 1, 2008 - 8:38 am 3. Lieberman Dem:I always thought Obama has the jaws of a marionette. His actions, especially this, just proves it.
Dec 1, 2008 - 8:40 am 4. cfbleachers:Jennifer, it is indeed a “sigh” of relief, but not a full breath of fresh air. President-elect Obama has shown a proclivity for allowing all voices to be heard, all points of views to be shared and an open ear for centrist worldviews to be “balanced” by leftist extremism.
Similarly, he has allowed the wisdom of full and unfettered support for Israel to be tainted by the stench of the Walt and Mearsheimer crowd, as well as some flaming and virulent antagonists who are even more despicable than Walt and Mearsheimer to infect his inner circle.
Malley, McPeak, Brzezinski, Bonior, Kurtzer, Samantha Power, Anthony Lake, Susan Rice, …even Jim Jones…all have shown tendencies toward the kneejerk blamefest of “Zionist influence” to creep into their worldview.
This is keeping out of the equation the lunatic fringe elements of Farrakhan, Wright, Pfleger, Ayers, Khalidi, the late Edward Said, …and the possible connections with Khalid al Mansour…or the dropping of nefarious hints by Jesse Jackson in France.
Sen. Clinton and Rahm Emanuel certainly give voice and conviction to a pro-Israel worldview and some hope for consistency in our loyalty to a precious ally and friend in the region.
But, it does not eliminate the wafting stench of the Walt and Mearsheimer crowd that simply does not blow away the ill winds they bring by the “sighs” produced by these two appointments.
What it does show, is what appeared at the Harvard Law Review, a willingness to listen to any and ALL voices. Which means, in summary…that we still don’t know what we have never known…because the entrenched media seems to have much more interest in gossip than serious reporting.
The tank and tingle approach to “investigative” reporting leaves us wondering and waiting for the implementation of policies that are as potentially ephemeral as the “divorcing” from the campaign and “unofficial” advisory status of Malley, Power…and Brzezinski. They were not so much thrown under the bus, as they apparently were stowed in the baggage area on its bottom sides. Can Wright, Farrakhan and Pfleger be far behind?
For my purposes, I am less enthralled by appointments as the titular department heads as I am in sausage grinding that takes place in the workaday middle ground of these agencies. The show horses vs. the plow horses…I watch the plow horses every time.
Perhaps there is much to “sigh” about. We shall see.
Dec 1, 2008 - 8:56 am 5. Kevin:The Clinton Administration was a big proponent of the “Two-State” solution. All those Jews that hold the issue of Israel close to their hearts should not be dancing just yet. She won’t change that aspect of the “peace” process. And I wouldn’t read too much into the appointment of former Clinton aides. Look into the individual that is being chosen who used to work for Clinton and you will see an aide that was more to the left than Bill.
Dec 1, 2008 - 8:58 am 6. Jacob:Not so fast.
Dec 1, 2008 - 8:59 am 7. mk:As First lady Clinton met Suha Arafat and didn’t protest when Suha said the jews are poisoning the water of the palis. She also had some anti Israeli utterances of her own at the time.
Ms. Clinton changed her tune when she run for senator from NY. Smaks of oportunism, not genuine pro-Israel stance.
Of course, oportunism is all Hillary ever believed in, after she matured from her initial leftie-radicalism.
I would’t trust her, still, the job of sec. state could have gone to a worse person (like James Baker, friend of the Saudis).
Okay, I’m actually impressed with this pick. Say what I will about Hillary (and believe me, I do), this is the best of the worst picks The One could make.
Dec 1, 2008 - 9:00 am 8. TexEd:Both Obama and Clinton are Saul Alinski disciples and he taught them that a lie that hastens the destruction of capitalism is OK. Hillary works only for herself and will sell out anyone to meet her objectives.
Dec 1, 2008 - 9:18 am 9. mark l.:Fortunately, Obama will do the same. What better way to get rid of Hillary than to get her out of the Senate and working for him. Within six months, she’ll be required to take the blame for something and she and Willie will be out. Once Obama issues a fatwa against her and Willie and without her Senate platform, not even the anti-American media will print her propaganda.
the funniest choice of words at the foreign policy rollout?
biden, repeatedly saying we live in ‘extraordinary’ times. You really can’t have ‘extraordinary rendition’ without it.
hillary has a large amount of experience with the practice of providing a wish list of interogations to foreign govts, especially egypt, and getting the perp arrested and interogated by the host country.
even the famous pdb-bin laden determined to strike in the US has been reportedly been sourced to an egyptian interogation.
I have little doubt that her first role as sec of state is to close gitmo quickly, getting the prisoners returned to their home country, so that far more violent measures may be used to extract information as needed. The US is constrained by ethics, in the sense that we cannot be the torturers…
clinton is on team obama to provide a means of outsourcing torture, keeping obama’s hands clean.
Dec 1, 2008 - 9:20 am 10. Letalis Maximus, Esq.:Well, you can bet Obama will be nice to Hillary until he is safely nominated to run in 2012. Then, it will be safe to throw her under the bus.
Just like Grandma.
Dec 1, 2008 - 9:23 am 11. fear Obama:Little Monday afternoon humor from a Jewish web site.
HA.
After reading this I actually felt a little relived,
Dec 1, 2008 - 9:26 am 12. Thinking Person:But now the stark reality of 4 more years of Obama has set back in.
As a Republican, I am, for once, glad to see Hillary. Obama is going to be the President come January. End of story. We can howl all we want now but that point is moot. If Hillary’s past speaks for her future, she will do all she can to get her own agenda through. Meaning, Mr. Liberal Obama will be reigned in somewhat by his outspoken Sec. of State. Me being the glass-half-full gal that I am will be looking forward to the years and years of SNL skits that will surely come out of this oil and water union. If we can’t laugh as we retook the GOP what are we left with?
Dec 1, 2008 - 9:30 am 13. David P:the appointment of James Jones basically cancels that sigh of relief out for Israel supporters, some of whom have still yet to breathe that sigh
Dec 1, 2008 - 9:37 am 14. Pajamas Media » Mazel Tov, Hillary! at Hillary Clinton On Best Political Blogs:[...] Pajamas Media » Mazel Tov, Hillary! President-elect Barack Obama made it official Monday, naming former rival Hillary Clinton as secretary of state. Since her name first surfaced, the idea of. [...]
Dec 1, 2008 - 9:38 am 15. Little Banana:fear Obama – can you post the link to that website, I feel the need to share
Dec 1, 2008 - 9:38 am 16. Robert Hurley:Poor Fear Obama must stay up all night worrying about the next four years. He might not make it past January 20th
Dec 1, 2008 - 9:39 am 17. fear Obama:14. Little Banana
It is posted about 4 comments down at
http://www.jerusalemonline.com/
click all posts.
Dec 1, 2008 - 9:42 am 18. fear Obama:16 Robert Hurley-
Its so good to see you back over here posting gloom and doom for the Bush economy.
You must feel great that it is crashing and burning.
-400 stock points again today.
Especially now that USA manufacturers and middle men and retailers,
Dec 1, 2008 - 9:56 am 19. Robert Hurley:and consumers are scared to death of your new president. We don’t have any idea if he will lie and take a conservative democrat approach-
more jobs and less taxes,
or tell the truth and go spinning off to the liberal left raise taxes and send me a big fat welfare check with your name as a donor signed at the bottom of it.
Fear Obama – It is great to have you astute economic insight. I imaging your friend go to you al the time for their long term investment advice. Tell me – will you be rejecting your social security check and not signing up for medicare?
Dec 1, 2008 - 10:08 am 20. Fat Man:I guess that Hillary’s constitutional ineligibility to the office is a mere bag of shells.
Dec 1, 2008 - 10:17 am 21. Fat Man:The Link I meant to put in above did not work. My apologies.
Dec 1, 2008 - 10:18 am 22. Todd:FO: your link isn’t working for me, so I can’t see who posted it there, but I knew it sounded familiar. It’s from Iowahawk –
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2008/11/obama-names-bill-clinton-to-president-post.html
Dec 1, 2008 - 10:29 am 23. fear Obama:19 Robert Hurley
I had enough economic insight to vote for Mitt Romney.
Mitt has forgotten more about what to do in an economic crisis than Bush, McCain and your beloved anointed one the Obamamessiah Gruppenführer.
/maybe Hillary will call Mitt to run the Treasury when Paulson {82} becomes senile.
Dec 1, 2008 - 10:45 am 24. fear Obama:Paulson 62
Dec 1, 2008 - 10:50 am 25. MarcH:Hey Jenn,
Can you introduce me to your dealer?
The Clinton administration pushed Israel into Oslo. Bullied then (and possible soon to be) PM Netanyahu when he balked at making concessions to the Palestinian Arabs of the size or with tthe rapidity that the Clinton administration wanted. Sue, HRC has been pro-Israel in the Senate. Is that so amazing coming from a new York politician?
We should also note that Suzanne Powers has apparently returned to the Obama team and his handling other appointments to State.
Dec 1, 2008 - 10:51 am 26. Jules Crittenden » It’s Clinton-Bush!:[...] Jennifer Rubin at Pajamas: Mazeltov, Hillary! [...]
Dec 1, 2008 - 10:56 am 27. Chuck Pelto:TO: All
RE: Heh
Too bad that she can’t serve as Secretary of State. It’s unconstitutional for a member of Congress to go from Congress to an appointed position of the United States government when he or she modifed the benefits and compensation for that position. And Hillary, during her tenure as the junior US Senator for New York, voted on raising the salary of cabinet members.
See this article
The key point being….
Who ARE these bozos? And who were the idiots to elected them to office? Or is the Constitution of the United States null and void?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Dec 1, 2008 - 11:00 am 28. Chuck Pelto:[Every people get the governance they deserve.]
P.S. If Obama doesn’t have a legit birth certificate, does that mean we’ve got a president-elect who is an illegal alien?
Dec 1, 2008 - 11:02 am 29. Robert Hurley:Fear:
I think you have drunk too much of the conservative koolaid
Dec 1, 2008 - 11:06 am 30. Pajamas Media » Mazel Tov, Hillary!:[...] Pajamas Media » Mazel Tov, Hillary! “I am pleased that Bill Clinton has agreed to come out of retirement to head up this crucial post in my administration,” said Obama. “He brings a lifetime of previous executive experience as Governor of Arkansas and President of the … [...]
Dec 1, 2008 - 11:23 am 31. Rashputin:null and void.
Chuck Pelto – “Who ARE these bozos? And who were the idiots to elected them to office? Or is the Constitution of the United States null and void?”
In fact, if the Supremes refuse to hear the question of Obama’s birth certificate we end all reasonable claims to having a Constitution right then and there. It was an insult to the public to run a candidate without the proper proof of birth on file, especially after challenging McCain earlier. Obama knows he doesn’t have appropriate documentation, he just figures that it’s a non-issue once he’s been sworn in and is aiming at making the inauguration before the Court acts. It’s all political whether it’s legal or not, that’s the democrat way. If the Court delays the inauguration, all hell breaks loose, and if they don’t he has four years, minimum, of legal arguments over why that doesn’t apply once he’s office.
The Court discovers rights and restraints hidden under a period or comma when they want to legislate, but they don’t want involved when there are crystal clear Constitutional issues. If some can pick and chose what parts they abide by, others are free to do the same. Precedent to ignore any portion of the Constitution that you find inconvenient is being set with all of this, and I doubt the clueless whiners cheering this crowd on are going to like the end result.
Ah, we shouldn’t get all upset over it, really. It’s just a bunch of negative right anyway, right? Texas has the right to secede, I guess I’ll be moving there and hoping for the best.
Regards
Dec 1, 2008 - 12:33 pm 32. Robert Hurley:Rashputin:
Obma’s birth certificate has been sertified as valid. Your insistance that it has not will cause most people to think you are looney. Have you ever thought about what happens when people live in a fantasy world?
Dec 1, 2008 - 12:53 pm 33. Robert Hurley:Chuch:
Have you joined the fantasy world too? Do you really think that the Cosntitution prevents Clinton from taking the office of Secretary of State?
Dec 1, 2008 - 1:13 pm 34. NotSoros:Has anyone bothered to read Art of War? No doubt Mr. Obama has.
Mr. Hurley:
Thou doth protest too much. Pithy platitudes are not policy. Your leader may yet end up as an empty suit. And your employer, be it Uncle Sam or Uncle Soros, will be hard pressed to actually DO anything different.
Government, by its very nature, is lazy, lethargic substitute for comon-sense. You will learn this over the course of time.
The Free Market will return…. eventually.
Cheers!
Dec 1, 2008 - 2:05 pm 35. Robert Hurley:NotSoros. The free market will not solve all our problems and untrammelled it will create many as the current situation proves. It is the best way to create jobs and wealth, but must be governed more tightly than it has in the recent past
Dec 1, 2008 - 2:22 pm 36. Rashputin:Dear dull Hurley, however you may be deceived regarding the birth certificate matter, I note you made no mention of the appointment in question. Could it be that even you, after reading the direct quote from the Constitution given above, are unsure? No, I thought not. You were simply waiting for your talking points. I’m sorry I asked before you had time to find out what to regurgitate.
have a lightbringing day
Dec 1, 2008 - 2:46 pm 37. Duh:Yes it has been “sertified” as valid…
Dec 1, 2008 - 4:07 pm 38. Denverjew:You’ve got to be kidding!!! No way can you call either Clinton pro Israel. Has her warm embrace of Suha Arafat after Mrs. Arafat said the Jews were poisoning the Palestinian’s water supplies and that Jewish Doctors were spreading AIDS among Palestinian children been forgotten. How about her husband holding Bibi Netanyahu hostage at Wye when he would sign the accords over the city of Hebron? Forget it, the only Jews who are “breathing a sigh of relief” over Hillary are the same leftists who are consumed with self loathing. Unfortunately, this is about 80% of American Jews, the very same ones who voted for Obama.
Dec 1, 2008 - 4:07 pm 39. Chuck Pelto:TO: Robert Hurley
RE: Yeah?
By whom? And when?
What I saw on Obama’s campaign site had no signatures nor official seals nor indentions of the latter. No names of attending physician, number of children born at the time, location of delivery; hospital or home. Then it had the word ‘laser’ on it.
We had ‘laser’ printers in 1961? Who knew?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Dec 1, 2008 - 5:40 pm 40. Chuck Pelto:[Have we elected an illegal alien to be president?]
TO: Robert Hurley
RE: Fantasy? Whose?
What’s your problem, Robert? Don’t read English very well?
I guess that you’re the one with the ‘fantasy’. The one that the Constitution of the United States means nothing.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Every people get the governance they deserve.]
P.S. So….based on the latest report we’ll have 20,000 military personnel to enforce the law of the land by 2011?
Hope you enjoy being prodded to do what’s required by bayonets, if that report is accurate.
Dec 1, 2008 - 5:56 pm 41. Войска ПВО:Chuck Pelto writes:
“What I saw on Obama’s campaign site had no signatures nor official seals nor indentions of the latter. No names of attending physician, number of children born at the time, location of delivery; hospital or home. Then it had the word ‘laser’ on it. We had ‘laser’ printers in 1961? Who knew?”
Chuck, a laser printer was NOT used to produce the certification. It was a typewriter borrowed from George Bush’s Texas ANG commander. You know, the one with variable pitch New Times Roman font.
Oh, and don’t worry about The Messiah being an illegal alien POTUS; they’re working overtime to get him a green card.
Good catch on Hillary’s inability to serve as SOS, by the way. I wish you, “Fear Obama”, and Rashputin were local to the SoCal area. I might just be forced to buy you guys a beer.
Dec 1, 2008 - 6:10 pm 42. Robert Hurley:Chuckie – Since at lease two previous appointment have been made in similar circumstances by other Presidents – do you really think your argumaent and that of other nuts will hold water in the courts. The fantasy is yours
Dec 1, 2008 - 6:54 pm 43. Dave Surls:“No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time…”
I don’t think I’ve ever noticed that being in the Constitution before.
Sounds like it says that if the salary or perqs associated with the job of Secretary of State have increased since Hilly was last elected to the Senate, then it would be illegal for her to be Secretary of State.
Dec 1, 2008 - 8:20 pm 44. P. Ami:Hurley,
I wonder what intellectual gymnastics you exercise that the mental fatigue leads you to insult folk who think the law should actually restrain the government as it was intended. Your best rational is, it’s been done before. Next you’ll rationalize one’s getting away with murder because that’s been done before?
Dec 1, 2008 - 11:38 pm 45. P. Ami:Oh, and anyone who thinks any Clinton is pro-Israel is a fool. When Arafat walked away from the Taba offer, the only thing that Clinton could think in support of Israel was to ask that Barak concede 100% of the Arab’s demands rather then only 98%.
Dec 1, 2008 - 11:41 pm 46. Mladen M:Let’s see… Once peace agreement is signed about 2 million Palestinians will be send back. Therefore two state solution have to be based on border before war of 1967. But to achieve that, large number of settlers have to be relocated. So far Israel does not show willingness even to remove small, unauthorized outposts, and near consensus between US politicians is that US is not going to pressure Israel on that issue. I do not see what SoS can do to fix it. Maybe Israel should sign peace deal with Syria first; return Golan while Syria allow Palestinian refugees to stay and assist in building water pipeline from Caucassus to Galilean Sea. Then you go and negotiate one state solution with Palestinians… Nobody need to relocate.
Dec 2, 2008 - 1:17 am 47. Rashputin:Hurley,
Glad to see you finally got the memo. I’d hate to think you had been dropped from the list of trained seals.
have a nice day
Dec 2, 2008 - 4:10 am 48. Chuck Pelto:TO: Robert Hurley
RE: Really?
Who were they?
….do you really think your argumaent and that of other nuts will hold water in the courts. — Robert Hurley
So you say that the Constitution of the United States is null and void.
Good. I’ll quote you in a court of law, should the need arise.
TO: All
RE: Hurley Logic
And people wonder why the next generation of adults don’t abide by the ‘Law’. Or even have remorse over the death of that Wal-Mart employee the day after T-Day.
It’s the logic of the lawless, as in ‘progressives’, that leads to this sort of society. When a president of the United States commits perjury and gets away with it. When someone who is an illegal alien (for all intents and purposes, due to a lack of documentation) is elected president, we can only expect that the next generation will ‘improve’ in the examples provided.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Dec 2, 2008 - 4:26 am 49. Chuck Pelto:[We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions. -- Ronald Reagan]
TO: Dave Surls
RE: That….
….is EXACTLY what it says.
And during Senator Clinton’s tenure, they voted to increase the pay to presidential cabinet-level appointees, of which the Secretary of State is one.
But Hurley, and other ‘progressives’ don’t care much for the Law, therefore they think it should be ignored.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Yesterday's Law is today's lie. -- Progressive mentality]
P.S. It’s just like the Communists of old.
Dec 2, 2008 - 4:30 am 50. Ken Besig:Bill Clinton has received literally tens of millions of dollars from the wealthy Persian Gulf Arab Islamic states, some for his personal use, some for the support of his library, and some for unspecified purposes. Now we all know that Hillary will be the Secretary of State, don’t we, and even though her husband has made millions from his Arab Islamic buddies, we can be sure that neither Bill nor his Arab money will have any influence on Hillary’s Middle East policies and of course her relationship with Israel. We can all be sure of that, can’t we?
Dec 2, 2008 - 4:56 am 51. Chuck Pelto:TO: Robert Hurley
RE: The ‘Fantasy’….
….takes on new and greater ‘Life’.
It seems that others are picking up on the matter of Senator Clinton’s appointment being a direct violation of the Constitution. See Gill’s item on PJM.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Dec 2, 2008 - 5:07 am 52. Steveoh:[The 'fantasy' grows more substantial and real with each passing minute.]
I’m so tired of this talk of even handedness on Obama’s part, or that Hillary is somehow fervently Pro Israel. The lefty posters here like Mladen M and others have not studied their history. The Palestinian state of Jordan was created long ago. Check the population statistics. Check the original plans by the British for the creation of a Palestinian and Jewish State side by side. It included all of the land which is now on the East side of the river Jordan. The Hashemite Kingdom was overthrown in Saudi Arabia by the Family Saud and Abdullah and the Hashemites were given the land “Palestine” as a booby prize. No oil on it you see. But it was to be the Palestinian state, with that their can be no argument. That is the truth. So later, following the extermination of six million jews by Europeans, yes not just the Nazi’s, A new plan emerged, another so called two state solution, this time granting the Jews a sliver of what was once promised them as they returned from the diaspora. Another misconception is that these Jews were all Europeans. Again, lies and ignorance. The number of displaced Middle Eastern Jews from Iran, Iraq, Morocco, Yemen and other Muslim lands is largely ignored in the discussion of refugees. Over 450,000 Jewish refugees were absorbed by the jewish state after they were forced from their homes without property or possessions as a result of pogroms throughout the Muslim world against Jews. Those refugees and their decendents greatly out number any displaced Arabs who were allies of the Nazi’s during the war and openly went to war against the tiny Jewish state. Those refugees have every much a “right of return/reparations” from the lands which they were expelled. The significant difference was the Muslim world ignored the plight of the mostly bedouin Arabs of Palestine, and actually kept them in refugee camps for fear of the overthrow of their own governments. Read about Black September and educate yourselves. So last week Abbas AKA Abu Mazen sits in front of a map colored in green encompassing all of Israel as a Palestinian state and you people talk about a desire for a two state solution. Palestinians have passed on this concept dozens of times and any rhetoric otherwise are lies and misconceptions, but mostly ignorance. Obama’s buddies Said et al all call for a one state solution, eliminating Israel as a Jewish State. This is a non starter and the solution to the Palestinian problem is one that should be addressed by Jordan, the already existing Palestinian state. Over 60% of their population is Palestinian, they had full control of Judea and Sumeria until 1967 and refused to absorb them into their society. Ask yourselves why. Muslims hate and wish to eliminate the Jewish state and many wish for all Jews to be eliminated as well. The number one book in the Muslim world is Elders of the Protocals of Zion, #2 Mein Kampf. Israel will hold firm. The Muslims will continue their terror. They will lose as they continue down the path to appeasement of the radical elements of their society, the Islamists of Hamas.
Dec 2, 2008 - 5:23 am 53. Chuck Pelto:P.S. Speaking of Fantasies….
….I notice that Robert Hurley has, as expected, FAILED to say who and when ’sertified’ Obama’s birth certificate.
Typical ‘progressive’ argument. Make allegations but NEVER substantiate them with facts.
Dec 2, 2008 - 5:51 am 54. Jeff:This is totally naive. Hillary cares nothing for Jews or Israel other than as politically useful tools when she wanted the New York vote. Her entire history has been blame Israel first. Even Jimmy Carter argued that a Palestinian state would be a destructive force but Hillary shocked the world when she, 10 years ago as First Lady, became the first US politician to argue that a Palestinian state would be a good idea.
Almost nothing except for politically useful spin separates her from the rest of Obama’s Israel-hostile team.
Hillary will, with a smile on her face and double-talk rhetoric be a force for terrible pressure on Israel.
Dec 2, 2008 - 6:33 am 55. Mladen M:Steveoh;
Would you calm down, please? I know about most of things you noticed. Fact is, Palestinians are mostly farmers and city dwellers. Folks who stayed there for 3000 years or more, probably changing religion few times in process. In fact, genetically speaking, they are probably closer to subjects of king Solomon then most of modern Jews. But lets not talk about Nazi argument that some group of people have more right then other based on nationality, race or religion. And for fair measure, we can skip Communist argument that some people can be dispossessed of their property without fair compensation. Now, I hope you agree with that.
So, if Jews in Europe were persecuted for centuries this is not fault of Palestinians. And if they got hard time in rest of the Arab world, I do not think Palestinians did it, either. If you were victimized in the past, it does not give you right to victimize someone else.
Yes, in Jordan Palestinians about outnumber native Bedouin population so ruling class there certainly wish to send some away. Lebanon wants to send all of them away. Syria certainly cannot pay resettlement and integration in society of Palestinian in refugee camps there. And none of those people get offered right to return or even fair compensation for lost property. Meanwhile, neither USA or EU or those oil-rich Arab countries offered to give citizenship to any significant number of those refugees. What is worse, you have bunch of people who escaped from Israeli proper in 1948 and sit now in refugee camps on occupied West Bank.
I do not claim I have alternative solution to fair two state solution or to democratic one state. But problem haven’t gone away in 40 years and it won’t go now just because you wish it. Only 40 years ago Israel could go with ethnic cleansing without anyone doing much about it, but that thing is now out of table. You can claim now that problem is too hard to solve and do nothing next 40 or 60 years. But bear in mind, lots of world problems have almost gone in last 40 years; most of Fascist and Communist dictators, regional wars, mass starvation and epidemics. So, you can carry on as you do, if you wish. But unless you want some Sudanese or Congolese politician lecture you about peaceful coexistence quarter of century from now you will work on solution straight away. Remember, Serbian refugees are coming back to Croatia and it did not took 40 years…
Dec 2, 2008 - 7:47 am 56. B Dubya:If you are Jewish, and you are at all comforted by Mrs. Clinton’s appointment as Secretary of State, then good for you.
Dec 2, 2008 - 8:51 am 57. Steveoh:The facts seem to support a rather different outcome from the one you want, given the notoriously deep seated anti-semitism ( a really nice term concocted in 19th century Germany to give hatred of Jews a PC label) of the American and European left.
It never ceases to amaze me that so many American Jews stand with these people, given what they will eventually do.
(You new stalinists don’t like being outed as the statistic generaters that you are, do you? But, like Uncle Joe said, only a single death is a tragedy, millions are just statistics, right?)
Jordan is the rightful Palestinian state. Relocation, not ethnic cleansing is the answer. The idea that “Palestinian” Arabs have a right to Judea and Sumeria or any part of the modern Israeli state is no more credible than Israeli Jews having the right to a state in one of the provinces of Iraq or elsewhere in the Muslim world. The problem lies in the indoctrination, and the political pressure vis a vis strong oil rich Arab states driving the discussion from one Palestinian state on Israeli land to the two state solution you propose. Now the academics call Israel an Apartheid state and have begun their switch back to the one state solution. And what has all of the appeasement and negotiation brought Israel over the last 30 years? Islamists firing rockets from two borders. World history, a true understanding of the demographics of the region, and the acceptance that the Muslim world indoctrinates their populations to hate Jews on a daily basis over generations now should be the focus of any discussion regarding the resettlement of Arab refugees.
Dec 2, 2008 - 8:57 am 58. myth buster:Hillary is eligible to be Secretary of State IF she resigns from the Senate prior to being officially nominated for the position and having that nomination sent to the Senate for confirmation.
Dec 2, 2008 - 9:39 am 59. EyeDoc:“Obma’s birth certificate has been sertified as valid. Your insistance that it has not will cause most people to think you are looney. Have you ever thought about what happens when people live in a fantasy world?”
What birth certificate? Obama has never released his birth certificate. All we’ve seen is a Certificate of Live Birth from the state of Hawaii which is not a birth certificate and doesn’t even prove you were even born in the United States.
Dec 2, 2008 - 10:55 am 60. Steveoh:To Mladen M does the truth you claim to have “noticed” make you feel I need to calm down. There is no personal attack here. I am merely stating facts. Funny though, you fail to address any of the points I made directly, instead resorting to the same “palestinian victimization” arguments. Yes the Palestinian Arabs were complicit in their own “tragedy” and they continue to this very day. You ignore the fact that Abu Mazen still sits in front of maps claiming all of Israel for the Palestinians despite the promises made during and after the disaster of Oslo. You ignore that the Arab world was an ally of the Nazi’s. That the Mufti of Jerusalem sat with Hitler and was a supporter of the Final Solution of the Jews. Finally, explain away the continued indoctrination of Jew hatred on a daily basis in the Muslim world using the very same tools Hitler himself used. Again, Mein Kampf and The Protocals are accepted as fact in the Muslim world. They are indeed the two best selling books.
Arafat was offered more than anyone ever expected at Camp David, Dennis Ross, Bill Clinton and others find themselves having to defend the attempts at revisionist history by the likes of Jimmah Carter and others. What proof is there that a two state solution will ever be accepted by any Palestinian leadership. There is none.
Hillary will set down the same path as those before her and will fail. Perhaps addressing the Islamist massacres in Nigeria, Congo, Sudan, Somalia, Thailand, and now in India as well as making sure Iran does not achieve the ability to arm and launch a nuclear weapon should be at the top of her agenda. How about Tibet? North Korea?
For Muslims there is only one solution to the Middle East “crisis” and that is the elimination of the State of Israel. To think otherwise is pure fantasy.
Dec 2, 2008 - 11:49 am 61. WestGuard:Palestinians freely chose to elect a terrorist government to represent them. Obviously they don’t want peace or a respectable civilised state. They simply want to destroy Israel.
Why do the governments of America and Europe feel the need to financially support people of this mentality?
Dec 6, 2008 - 7:59 pm 62. hp:We donate money for clothes, food and medicine and Iran and Syria donate the bombs and rockets so they can murder Jews.
Why are we enabling this beast?
I say, from now on let Iran, Syria and other rich militant muslims provide the welfare money for their proxy warriors.
Chuck Pelto And Hillary, during her tenure as the junior US Senator for New York, voted on raising the salary of cabinet members.
oh, chuck(le), chuck(le), chuck(le). dontcha know? this has all been in the game plan pre-2004 when obama got into the senate by promising his former constituents he would not run for the presidency.
actually we all knew something was already up the minute clinton moved to new york. there was not one second lost to making a decision of that magnitude at that time. it had already been previously calculated.
by someone somewhere.
aside: if i were one of said bamboozled former obama constituents, i’d be thinking about suing for breach of verbal contract.
MTP Transcript for Oct. 22, 2006:
Dec 8, 2008 - 6:26 am