Pajamas Media

108 Comments

1. jvon:

Great piece. I do disagree with you on one point: I thought it was obvious that McCain was pulling punches in the first debate because he felt there needed to be cooperation to pass the bailout plan. I thought that made sense, though it did give Obama a temporary advantage.

I’m willing to believe (and I need to believe) that McCain is a good enough strategist that he figured that tradeoff was worth it and he could come back from it. I strongly agree with you that he needs to come out swinging tonight. I pray he does or we’re all in a world of hurt.

Oct 7, 2008 - 12:52 am 2. David Thomson:

John McCain wants to kick Barack Obama’s rear end. It is now a personal vendetta. I have ben converted into believing that Obama made a horrific mistake bringing up the Keating Five episode. McCain thinks that he has been crapped on, and is no longer willing to pull his punches. John Glenn currently support Obama. He should also be enraged at Obama’s mentioning of the Keating Five. Is it possible he will also begin to severely criticize Obama?

Barney Frank is the poster child of Democratic Party misbehavior. Lefties like Alec Baldwin and Saturday Night Live comedians have been added to the list of those ridiculing the Massachusetts congressman. One can therefore take it for granted that Frank’s name will be mentioned several times during the debate. If the world is even somewhat fair—the Democrats should be slaughtered on Election Day. They richly deserve most of the blame for our current economic crisis.

Oct 7, 2008 - 2:12 am 3. Marc Malone:

This all sounds good, but a lot depends on the questions the people ask. Palin was much criticized for straying off topic, but it was the only way to get the word out past the MSM filters. I’m not sure McCain can do this, because the voters will be asking.

McCain’s biggest problem is that he really does not understand economics. He mouths the Pub principles without understanding them. That’ll be fine as a guideline for governing, but lousy in debate. That’s why he’s such a poor debater, outside of the fact that he really was trying to get the bill to pass.

The good thing is, lots of people are expected to watch this one. The audience also may not put up with many um’s and uh’s from Obama. Some questioners may indeed know the issues and call Obama and McCain on falsehoods, or ask for real details. It’s fraught with danger for both sides. Unless the deck (audience) is stacked….

Oct 7, 2008 - 2:16 am 4. lee:

Team Mccain has to realize that the Obama camp will ANTICIPATE Mccain’s more (hopefully) aggressive strategy in the debate. Obama’s response will be more or less this – “Mccain is trying to distract voters from the economy by sniping away at my past”. He will also counterattack by depicting Mccain as one of the GOP “deregulator” who allowed the lending companies to run wild.

Mccain might blunt this charge by explaining that he was against unnecesary government intrusion / expansion in our businesses and personal lives but NOT ALL forms of regulations (if indeed that was his position). Wouldn’t hurt to point out how existing regulation failed to prevent this disaster in the first place.

Then he has to start naming all those democrats (especially Maxine Waters, YUCK) who blissfully insisted that F&M was in fine shape. Call out Franlkin Raines and his relationsihp with Obama, who’s incidently the kind of a dark, greedy corporate figure Obama has targeted for a steep hike in taxes. How much money has Raines made?

Lastly, Mccain should DISMANTLE Obama’s self painted image as a champion of the middle class. Someone tell this guy that parts of the middle class (directly or indirectly) work for those corportations. Who assembles, packages, delivers, and ulitmately sells products that bring in the dough for the CEOs? Who will ultimately get hurt if you dramatically increase taxes on corporations, especially during a bad economy?

Obama and Biden’s economic plan can be simplified to taxing the rich mercilessly then mailing every middle class American a check. They create an economic narrative where you’re either a waiter scrimping pennies to live or an profiteering executive – a division between the haves and have nots. This kind of communist fantasy certainly has some appeal among the poor during difficult economic times. It happens ALL the time in Asia. If Mccain can effectively reveal this as a scam and offer real solutions, he can score some points.

Oct 7, 2008 - 2:38 am 5. 888:

How in the world is the US going to afford Obama’s pledged universal health care??? Look at what’s happening to California with all of its welfare and entitlement spending. Obama’s $1 trillion spending plan will bankrupt America forever, and then to top that, he’s going to tax companies which produces jobs. It’s pathetic that America is giving him a pass on this, too.

Oct 7, 2008 - 3:01 am 6. vivo:

888
Oct 7, 2008 – 3:01 am:

How can you afford health care with McCain’s plan with a $2500 tax break (Plans cost $12 K) if you lose your job, are retired with fixed income or have a catastrophic illness?

Medicare-style coverage is the way to go. We live in a society of human beings, don’t we? Aren’t we supposed to help each other?

How can we afford it? Cut the Defense budget. Maybe we should have a Universal plan, that is, coverage for ALL the nations in the World. All countries pitching in.

Oct 7, 2008 - 3:29 am 7. RE:

vivo:

But how would Canadians get the treatment they need if the US nationalizes health care?

The sad truth is that America is taking up the slack for other incompetence of their governmental bureaucrats. And As Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae illustrate, out government is every bit as incompetent as theirs – and you want these same buffoons deciding what kind of medical treatments you qualify for and what resources are available?

Government involvement in the health care system is disservice to humanity. If anything middlemen need to be removed from the doctor/patient relationship.

Funny how the promise of free stuff makes people go stupid. Once you forfeit your sovereignty and your right to choose, you’re pretty much screwed. A vote for Obama’s socialism is for the most part a declaration: ‘Yes! I am stupid! I can be bought with the promise of free stuff!’

Oct 7, 2008 - 3:52 am 8. J.J. Sefton:

Vivo:

Everyone loves a free lunch. But when the bill comes, and it always comes, somebody has to pay for it. That person is the American taxpayer. The only thing the government ever does fairly decently is policing the streets and defending the country. Have you ever gone into a Motor Vehicle Bureau? These will be the people running Medicare. Not to mention the billions of dollars ripped off every year by thieves with medical degrees and insurance scammers.

Bad as it is, and it is bad, it’s better than socialized medicine. That said, the thievery and abuse – like the Democratic rip off of the housing industry, must be stopped.

Oct 7, 2008 - 3:55 am 9. David:

Thinking people are not going to buy into personal attacks if the economy is collapsing around their ears. I cringe when I see the Ayers attacks, knowing that I certainly don’t want to be held accountable for the politics of people I work with. Talking about what people are actually discussing, that is, the economy, the war, etc. would make it seem that the campaign is listening. Digging back to something that happened when Obama was an 8-year-old is stupid, especially when a huge number of people see 60’s hippies as ancient history. The same is true with references to Reagan, Carter, Dukakis. You might as well be talking about Lyndon Johnson.

Oct 7, 2008 - 3:58 am 10. Peter Gee:

McCain’s campaign is downright weird. I have little confidence he will do any of the above. McCain is always happiest attacking fellow Republicans and acting the rogue fighter pilot.

He has run the worst campaign I have seen and only Sarah Palin has saved him so far. It beggars belief that the Dems have successfully pinned Fannie and Freddie on the Reps when the major single cause of the financial mess, the subprime crisis, has “Democrat” written all over it.

I am astounded that only now, and weakly, are the McCain campaign waking up to the fact that major Democrats like Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and others have taken Fannie/Frefdie money in huge amounts, including Obama (whose campaign is staffed with Freddie/Fannie crooks like Raines), and refused time and again to allow them to be regulated by first Bush and lastly McCain’s own initiative. This is simply a matter of public record.

McCain has run a hopeless campaign. His advisors are useless. It’s all to little, too late, sadly. Now when he attacks, it will all be spun as “desperation”.

Oct 7, 2008 - 4:00 am 11. Steve:

You are right but this us a strategy that should have been executed a month ago. Obama is an empty book of accomplishments and voters can only rely on his pandering speeches and convenient positions.

His life is a different story than his books and weaves a very disturbing story that makes him the most dangerous man to ever run for President – not just unqualified.

McCain cannot rely on Palin and has a obligation to the American people to do what mainstream media refuses to do which sit to expose and explain the real Barak Hussein Obama and his past associations/mentors – all who are extreme left wing and even anti-American people.

Oct 7, 2008 - 4:12 am 12. SAF:

McCain has a history of upsetting the apple cart in times of crisis. If you recall it wasn’t that long ago when everyone gave up on his bid to be the presidential nominee and now here he is. He did that by changing his campaign strategy, perhaps he will do the same now.

But he had a smaller hill to climb to become the nominee as the press treated all republicans more or less the same. Obama is accorded special treatment as is Biden because they are democrats. He has tough odds in this environment regardless of whether he takes the gloves off or not.

In a fair fight McCain would be even if not ahead in the poles. McCain has many warts, all of which have been exposed. Obama? given the easy pass by the MSM.

Oct 7, 2008 - 4:21 am 13. Dan:

Oh yes, thanks for detailing for me once again McCain’s blazing retort that left me limp and cold. It was either strategic for the moment, as someone else commented, or McCain hasn’t the fire to fight anyone but his own party.

OH, and I hope that I never hear again about the “lion of the senate”. I will lose my supper if I do.

Oct 7, 2008 - 4:23 am 14. Valerie:

Have no fear. Michelle Malkin has today’s real scandal. The Obama campaign and its surrogates are vulnerable due to their active suppression of speech and open racism, not to mention their nasty habit of encouraging the disclosure of the other side’s supposedly protected information such as divorce records and private email. If yesterday’s speech by McCain is any indication, he’ll use it well.

Oct 7, 2008 - 4:54 am 15. mishu:

vivo is an obamabot who got his “action-wire” today. His orders are to “get in our faces” here. Don’t feed him.

Oct 7, 2008 - 4:57 am 16. Jonas Menchik:

Unfortunately, I see the McCain/Palin ticket floundering around with this new negative campaigning.

I believe that its time for a grassroots movement. I started this website, http://www.jonasmenchik.blogspot.com, and this petition, http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Independence/, to encourage the campaign to give a 1, 2 punch. Removing the moderate mask from Obama is fine, but America needs vision, right now. We have less than 30 days.

I hope will consider my idea of a 2nd Declaration of American Independence and promote the need for the Big Idea as opposed to Big Government.

Oct 7, 2008 - 5:22 am 17. CoolCzech:

What McCain needs to work on are shot one liners that get at the heart of his criticism of what the Democrats have done to our economy. How about:

“Think of the Damage the Democrats have done to America’s Standing in the Eyes of the World by Selling them OUR Bad Loans!”

Short, memorable, and accurate.

For all the whining by European liberals that we dared liberate 40 million people from atrocious regimes in the last 8 years, think how they must feel about having their own financial systems ruined by the likes of Dodd and Frank perpetrating a global American subprime mortgage fraud!

Oct 7, 2008 - 5:27 am 18. Sandra M:

This article and some of the comments are a day out of date.

McCain went after Obama with guns blazing yesterday. I posted his speech to my blog and I look forward to this evening.

Calling McCain a liar and raising the Keating Five was a major strategic error on the part of the Obama campaign. Reminds me of Admiral Yamamoto’s line:”I fear we have awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve.

McCain seemed deadly calm and focused yesterday, and if he’s like that tonight I think Obama will wilt. At any rate, it will be a must-see debate

Lastly, in 2004, I didn’t think much of the Republican Party campaign, so I donated to the Swift Boat Veterans. If you don’t like the campaign McCain is running, help fund some of the 527’s like realchange.com and veteransforfreedom.com. On my new blog, I’m suggesting a 4 page informative newsletter instead of the usual glossy, campaign brochure.

And one suggestion I can’t do much about is that Sarah Palin sit down and do a 15 minute or 30 minute infomercial on energy, and the connection between high food prices and the corn ethanol subsidy, high gas prices and the Democrat desire that we switch to alterntive fuels, etc. Perot did such a talking head with flipcharts infomercial and got higher ratings than the World Series. This isn’t abstract economics we’re talking about. People want to know what the CAUSES of our problems, are WHO to blame and WHAT to do. It’s our job to tell them.

Oct 7, 2008 - 5:33 am 19. CoolCzech:

“Maybe we should have a Universal plan, that is, coverage for ALL the nations in the World. All countries pitching in.”

Oct 7, 2008 – 3:29 am

Great thinking, Vivo a/k/a as Obama the Cheap Political Hack: we should extend Medicare benefits to Africa, and maybe Social Security, too.

After all: just like the Democrats denied there was a crisis with Fanni Mae and Freddie Mac, they assured us that there IS “no crisis” with Social Security and Medicare, either.

Doesn’t THAT make one feel confident?

Oct 7, 2008 - 5:52 am 20. Douglas Bogle:

Obamas plans are very similar to Hugo Chavez’s set up. After ten years all the freeby have gone to the rich and the die hard supporters, the poor have become a disaster and more are joining these rolls.

socialized medicine, if you can afford private health insurance in a socialized system 10 out of 10 buy it. This gives you the choice.

A good system of socialized health care is in Taiwan. But big brother is all over you.

Hopefully the voters asking questions are on the ball on ask the tough ones. Mac if honest and straight forward he will do just fine.

Oct 7, 2008 - 6:06 am 21. Matt:

John McCain can’t take the gloves off, because he was born with them off. If you people really wanted McCain to win this election, or at least not lose horribly, you’d be begging him to put some gloves on.

But we all know that’s not going to happen. The McCain/Palin ticket is destined to go down in history as one of the most inept ever. No message. No strategy. No brains.

Oct 7, 2008 - 6:06 am 22. Ed Wallis:

THANK YOU, “mishu”, for the note about N O T – F E E D I N G – T R O L L S.

Add “vivo” to the list:

“Jeff”
“Christine”
“nlcatter”
“schnargley”
“Ron Kean”
“realitycheq”
“just say no to Fox”
“Boris”
“Matt”

THE NAMES MAY CHANGE, but the Axelrod-style stays the same.

Oct 7, 2008 - 6:25 am 23. Mary Grabar:

If Fred Eckert was advising McCain, he’d be ten points ahead. Fight! Fight! Fight!

Oct 7, 2008 - 6:34 am 24. david levavi:

Good advice but not nearly tough enough. If Barney Frank wants to use the race card (“The fact that some of the poor people are black… is an effort, I believe, to appeal to a kind of anger in people.”), it ought to be thrown back in his face.

Barack Obama, Barney Frank, Maxine Waters, ACORN and others encouraged and coerced banks to extend subprime loans, AKA affirmative-action mortgages, to people who didn’t begin to qualify for loans. The underlying philosophy was to give poor people (AKA Black people according to Barney Frank) a stake in America.

There is nothing wrong and everything right about Black people having a stake in America. But until Congress legislates reparations to African Americans for slavery, that stake has to be earned. The sneaky stratagem by radical Democrats to give away stakes in America has driven a stake into America’s economic heart.

Not politically correct? Racist? Radioactive? Not to the Obama camp who used the race card shamelessly against Hillary and are now using it against McCain. Time to stop ducking the issue and hit back.

Another point: Rather than concentrate on when Obama’s connection with Ayers-Dohrn began, concentrate on familiarizing the American people with the agendas of the Annenberg Foundation and other initiatives Obama-Ayers were involved in together.

Oct 7, 2008 - 6:47 am 25. Therese:

I agree that McCain needs to be aggressive tonight.

When Obama says that McCain is trying to change the subject, McCain should say, “Obama, can’t you walk and chew gum at the same time?”

A President should be able to deal with more than one issue at a time. Let’s talk about Ayers and the economy!

Oct 7, 2008 - 6:55 am 26. sheep:

The wheels on the bus have fallen off fallen off fallen off.

The desperation is palpable. No solutions, no ideas, just send out the lancome model for effect. Most of the nation is laughing at you, not with you.

Oct 7, 2008 - 6:58 am 27. rayy:

I don’t think McCain wants to further degrade himself. He is going to let his henchmen do the dirty work.

As it is, he couldn’t say anything positive about Obama or even look at him in the 1st debate. Maybe tonight we will see the “real John McCain”.

Oct 7, 2008 - 7:06 am 28. Dr. Mark:

SHEEP, your name is appropriate. The formula is still glaringly simple….
Obama=socialist/attorney-Harvard McCain=capitolist/proven leader-Annapolis

Oct 7, 2008 - 7:33 am 29. Richard:

Everybody’s a campaign manager now.
Give me a break!

Oct 7, 2008 - 7:35 am 30. dan:

i think mccain needs to articulate explicitly the connection between liberalism, big-government “solutions” and the significance of Obama’s politically dependent relationships with Ayers, Wright & Co.

clearly the substance of conservatives’ complaints about these is the fact that they – along with Obama’s voting record – certify him as a hardcore lefty, not a “uniter” or “post-partisan” or whatever other political vaseline he refers to. it’s wrong; he has no record of compromise or post-partisan anything. Obama-love ipso facto belies claims about interest in political comity. a vote for Obama is in fact a vote for political warfare, as his connections show that it is also a vote for economic and ideological warfare of the most naked variety. since this is a case, it is also a vote for political manipulation and bad faith.

it is truly depressing to witness how many otherwise reasonable and well-intentioned americans have been seduced by political hatred and will be voting for a suave fraud virtually offered up to us by communists and absurd reverse racists – politicians “of the past” if there ever deserved to be any.

Oct 7, 2008 - 7:59 am 31. Peter G:

I agree with Richard.

Oct 7, 2008 - 8:10 am 32. Kay:

McCain HAS to ask why OB will not disclose the sources of his $429 million in contributions, and point out McCain’s is an open book. And why so many orders for T shirts and bumper stickers from foreign countries? As I have done, the Republicans need to make a laundry list of all the radical people throughout OB’s life that have shaped his views and values …. this is scary. A mention here and there does not have the impact as a compiled list. So much money pouring in from unknown sources indicate to anyone paying attention OB has been groomed for something. Bring it to Sarah’s attention, she has the courage to bring it to light. If the Republicans lose without turning the spotlight on OB … shame on them.

Oct 7, 2008 - 8:21 am 33. momof3:

WHy do people STILL actually want universal healthcare? I just don’t get it! Nations that have it, hate it. Canada in particular, they are trying to get rid of it, and leftist idiots are still bleating about getting healthcare like Canadians. Canadians face months, if not years, long waits to see specialists and get surgeries. I mean, our government sucks at everything it runs now-welfare, taxes, education, etc. WHY would you want to give it another thing to suck at? Why do you want a government bean-counting worker telling you “no, you can’t have a by-pass” even when your dr says you need it?

Medical tourism is a booming business, precisely because of government run healthcare systems. People in europe and canada fly to asia and india to pay cash for their needed treatments, because they can’t get them in their system. And people actually want that here?? It’s insane.

I also can’t fidure out how Obama thinks taxing the amount your employer pays you as income is going to get millions of people dropped. It’s not going to cost your employer, or insurance company, any more. It’s going to cost you a little more in income tax, that will be offset by the tax credit. He knows this of course, but has to lie and play on people’s fears, since he has no valid points whatsoever to win people over with. And I say this as a until-this-election-democrat.

Oct 7, 2008 - 8:31 am 34. Fallon:

Words matter and carefully chosen words matter more. The Obama campaign is trying to hang “angry” and “erratic” on McCain. Axelrod must have run a poll and decided those words will work on simple-minded, insensate voters.

Passion is what McCain needs to exude. Passion for America, passion for righting a listing NOT sinking ship. Passion and respect for the American people and compassion for the anxiety they currently are experiencing with regards to the economy. Passion for defending himself against Obama’s onslaught of attacks.

As a voter, I still want to know why all of Obama’s college records are sealed. A man who has nothing to hide, hides nothing.

Obama has been treated with kid gloves so far by the MSM, enough. There is nothing erratic about kickin’ butt and exposing the names of Obama’s unsavory associates. These people represent influence, if not like-mindedness. Sure, some voters have already been brainwashed, but there are at lease 12% of voters who are still undecided.

Americans need to stop chasing Hollywood “cool” and start respecting substance.

The MSM needs to be called on it *everytime* they repeat Axelrod’s chosen buzzwords. Everytime. Passion not anger.

Senator McCain, needs to get Trumanesque: “I don’t give them Hell. I just tell the truth about them and they think it’s Hell.”

Oct 7, 2008 - 9:00 am 35. John:

I need some help here.
I travel around spreading support for McCain, but lately I’m getting asked some things that are difficult to answer:

1: McCain supporters understand that Obama is certainly guilty of associating with a known terrorist whose bad behaviour occurred BEFORE Obama was 8, even though the terrorist was never arrested, tried or convicted of anything and the work they did together was in trying to rebuild Chicago’s inner city schools, but

they don’t understand that John’s support of and from Charles Keating WHILE Keating was committing fraud – fleecing thousands of his customers and investors of their life savings – was not a bad thing at all. That even though Keating ended up as a CONVICTED FELON and John was investigated for trying to help his friend during the investigation and was censured by the senate for “exercising poor judgment”, he was just showing support for a constituent, not obstructing justice.

I have to admit the hardest part is explaining why the upstanding republican philanthropist, Walter Annenberg financed the opportunity that brought Obama and Ayers together. They remember Bush’s statement that those who finance terrorist activities are as dangerous as the terrorists themselves. How do you explain that a good friend of Ronald Regan’s financed the activities of Ayers and Obama?

2. The other set of concerns has to do with the unamerican speeches by Rev. Wright. What supporters are asking is how this compares to John’s actions in Vietnam. They don’t understand that John’s decision to cooperate with the Viet Cong – an enemy of the US – and, seemingly, betray his country and fellow soldiers,while a prisoner of war, is not at all unamerican. They are struggling to understand that John’s “treasonous” cooperation with the enemy is far less important than Obama’s pastor’s speeches.

I think someone needs to have a press conference to clarify this confusing set of issues.

Oct 7, 2008 - 9:02 am 36. cfbleachers:

I think there is a great danger in appearing to play too rough. When you are beginning the fourth quarter and you have to fight off the refs, every block and tackle risks a rigged flag thrown on you.

The Democratic Party Media is poised and ready to pounce on any attempt to take the gloves off by the Republicans. Remember, in national elections in this land of ours, as a Republican you get to choose a moderator who a)is openly for your opponent or b) who does a better job of hiding the fact that they are for your opponent.

In no other contest of expression of ideas is it so brazenly accepted that your “moderator” is NEVER going to be on your side, but always aligned against you. It is so brazen, in fact, that “moderators” can have glaring conflicts of interest, be writing books about the coming “Age” or “Era” of your opponent…and intentionally fail to disclose the glaring conflict.

Apparently, this may be overcome when a moderator who is against you, sets up tent in a Lion’s Club auditorium and then filters and plants the questions to cause the most lopsided impact, while appearing to be “randomly” elicited from the “audience”.

Then, upon finishing the rigged contest, not only are you subjected to the fixed game DURING the debate, you will have the judges scoring the debate in the motif of “Dancing With the Dems”, first they will decide “rather subjectively” that they didn’t like anything you said or did and give you a 2 on the paddleboard.

Your opponent, who tripped all over themselves and performed an ugly Paso Duplicity to the tune of “Who You Gonna Believe, Me or Your Lioneers”…will be given a “win” in the “polls” of all those who called and texted in their votes to Kos Kidz and the Huffington Post.

It’s a rigged game. The fix is in. The issue isn’t Ayers and his attempt as a co-conspirator to murder men in uniform with a nail gun bomb at Ft. Dix as well as their innocent dates. It’s not Barney Frank covering for Herb Moses and those campaign advisors Franklin Raines and Jim Johnson who pocketed millions and cooked the books, creating the financial crisis and the Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac meltdown.

It’s not about Tony Rezco, Rashid Khalidi, Khalid al Mansour, Robert Malley, Samantha Power, Tony McPeak and the hate Israel crowd.

It is not about Michael Klonsky, Carl Davidson, Frank Marshall Davis, the New Party, Sam Graham-Felsen, Noam Chomsky, and the hate America crowd.

This is about Saul Alinsky. He wrote that no freedom loving democracy can withstand an attack on its own rules. That it was powerful and mighty against forces aligned against it from the outside, but its weakness was, that if you pressed it to follow its own rules of morality, you could kill it from the inside.

We allowed our information stream to be taken over in academia, in tv news, in newspapers, in Hollywood, …with nothing more than bleating protests and empty rhetoric. We called the tune, now we pay the piper.

And, we cross our fingers. We don’t know and we will never know…until after the fact…whether Alinsky’s Revolution is at hand. We can’t know, but if we don’t see the signs and signals…we are deaf, dumb and blind.

Perhaps Sen. Obama is simply an Ivy League elitist who is tone deaf in his left ear and clogged with earwax on the right. Perhaps. Certainly an ongoing debate at the Volokh Conspiracy by Professor Kerr gives me hope.

But an in depth study of the Alinsky model, under which Sen. Obama was trained and even taught workshops, combined with the cadre of insiders, advisors, contributors and “friends” of the Obama campaign…who all share a visceral, raging, frothing hatred and antipathy of our free market economy, our ally…Israel, our military, our Middle Class, our faith based beliefs and our independent thinking unbundled from the UN and notions of “citizens of the world” Socialism…reveals footlights along a path that is undeniable in its adherence to the Alinsky model.

How would we know if this is an end game in the Alinsky model? Would anyone step up and admit it? Of course, not. How would we recognize the building blocks and pieces being put into place? Remember, Alinsky raged against open and notorious confrontation. He wanted to boil the frog…by placing it in the pot when the water was comfortable…and raising it one degree at a time.

How would we protect ourselves from the tearing down of our self-governing fabric, when one thread at a time was being pulled out? What would it look like…and if anyone raised the alarm…how would the Alinskyites respond?

First, they would tear down our ability to communicate and to get information that wasn’t tainted. They would rape the information stream. Then, they would create chaos, economic crisis would be the best. They would pick a target of hatred…a President would be good…and no matter what he did, they would pound on him relentlessly. They would create uncertainty and fear…and then blame the “other” for their own creation.

They would pit racial warfare and class warfare at every turn. They would say that the “world” hates us…then plant stories in their stolen information stream to fulfill the prophecy. They would slander the country, then call down the echoes of that slander from our enemies.

And we would sit by idly while they put every piece together over 40 years. Recognizing some of it, but never putting it all together.

Finally, they would begin to build their own Presidential Seal. They would work to choke off dissent by shouting down opposition, “calls to action” to clog the remaining communication vehicles, provide “cover” in their bought and paid for media and begin to take away the ability to defend ourselves…with “fairness doctrines” and attacks on each Bill of Rights Amendment one by one. They would train military style youth groups to “get in the face” of anyone who doesn’t vote properly. They would sing songs to the Leader for Life, a charismatic and soothing speaker…with no discernable background to uncover.

They would shelve the revolutionary guard and red guard units into deep background. No official title or position would be given to them…today. Legal maneuvers would be used to attack opponents and drive them out of contention. The race card would be played…causing hesitation and reluctance to speak.

It may not be that this will come to pass. I freely admit…we simply don’t know. And that’s the point…we won’t know. Not now, not anymore. There’s a chill wind blowing and it muffles the bell that tolls. It tolls for you.

Oct 7, 2008 - 9:03 am 37. Lori:

2 points:

a) McCain & Palin MUST hit harder. If they don’t do it now how can anyone believe they’ll be tough and clean up the corruption once elected?

b) I’m a Candian and must wait 2-1/2 or more years for foot surgery. It’s getting so hard for me to walk and find shoes anymore that don’t hurt, yet I’m considered non-priority. I went to emergency one night with heart attack symptoms, waited 4 to 5 hours without being served, gave up and went home. Our system is breaking down. Wish ya luck if the Dems win!

Oct 7, 2008 - 9:15 am 38. rocketeer:

momof3 – “WHy do people STILL actually want universal healthcare? I just don’t get it! Nations that have it, hate it”

This is the common problem of the socialist. They KNOW that their system has failed EVERYWHERE it’s been tried, but they suffer from the delusion that it just hasn’t been implemented the correct way yet. They think that because they are so intellectually superior to the rest of us, that their brand of socialism will be a screaming success. They suffer from a complete lack of understanding of basic human psychology, if you can get something for free, you won’t appreciate it, and you won’t work for it, and you’ll use it until it’s completely broken or all used up.

Most of this is easily understandable basic economics, if you set the price of something arbitrarily too low, the demand will go up and the supply will go down. Then you have what you have in Canada and Europe. We have that here too, but to a much smaller degree, since the government hasn’t gotten completely involved in setting prices for the entire system yet.

Oct 7, 2008 - 9:23 am 39. rocketeer:

Republican’s as a group, McCain and Palin’s campaign more specifically, suffer from a complete lack of being able to defend themselves. They have to bring guns to the gunfight, not hatchets. They need to understand that the media is not their friend and is hostile to them, and that the democrats are going to lie about everything that they say. They need to start naming names, and calling things what they are. We’re suffering from a “perception of reality disorder” here, where the perception is more important then the reality, and we need to start defining the perceptions in the terms that we want.

Oct 7, 2008 - 9:35 am 40. ex-democrat:

ed wallis – you better add that moron “John” from 9.02am to the list.

Oct 7, 2008 - 9:41 am 41. Ed Wallis:

“John” 9:02am – Thanks, but we all here know that you are an Astroturfer, so please skip the trite, “I travel around spreading support for McCain” lie.

Ayers has never shown contrition for his bombing of Federal facilities, and worked for years with Obama on the Woods [SLUSH] Fund/Annenberg Challenge. Please refer to 6-part series:
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=9F8A48061A962CDD
Furthermore, McCain was fully exonerated and only called on “poor judgment” for attending one meeting vis a vis Keating.

Oct 7, 2008 - 9:46 am 42. R.D.:

My exact thoughts. This is the first time I have seen someone say what I have been thinking. This is the truth, how can it hurt anyone, except the ones it should.This is where the problem lies, not George Bush and surely not John McCain. This is his only hope for winning and this is the only hope for the country. If this isn’t exposed right now and the Democrats remain in power, none will be exposed or prosecuted.

Oct 7, 2008 - 9:53 am 43. CoolCzech:

rayy:

“I don’t think McCain wants to further degrade himself. He is going to let his henchmen do the dirty work.

As it is, he couldn’t say anything positive about Obama or even look at him in the 1st debate.”

That’s an interesting point, rayy:

We’ve seen PLENTY of people that have known McCain for YEARS say all SORTS of good things about him, even the pre-campaign Joe Biden.

Where are all the character testimonials for Obama?

You know, rayy, like the people that worked with him during his ACORN years… why aren’t they showing up in the Media and talking about what a great guy he is? What about the people he attended church with? The people that knew him in college?

One wonders if any of them actually liked the guy… or if, all things considered, he would rather NOT have us know who all those people are.

Oct 7, 2008 - 10:01 am 44. dan:

I wonder if “John” hates McCain more than he loves Obama, or vice versa? Sounds academic, but I for one could use every shred of information to form an understanding of the socially-acceptable form of insanity that affects him. It’s like a moral self-lobotomy, or something. Freaky yo.

Oct 7, 2008 - 10:08 am 45. glc:

Spot on.

On all fours.

On point.

Perfect.

Correct.

I could not agree more.

McCain must fight and shout from the rooftops about the Democrats, Obama, and this financial fiasco.

Were you reading my mind? Your article is absolutely correct.

Oct 7, 2008 - 10:08 am 46. jb:

“John” 9:02am
“They don’t understand that John’s decision to cooperate with the Viet Cong – an enemy of the US – and, seemingly, betray his country and fellow soldiers, while a prisoner of war, is not at all unamerican”

You sir are not worthy of any thought and your posts are not worthy of being read. The statement you made is the statement of a pathetic moron and I think that describes who you are. The POW’s of this country don’t deserve that kind of garbage from an ingrate like you. Grow up little boy; maybe your mom will let you use the computer after you have something intelligent to say.

Oct 7, 2008 - 10:10 am 47. John:

Momof3:

I am a US citizen who moved to Vancouver, BC in 1977 for career opportunities. I didn’t plan to be here more than a couple of years but, if you have to live in a big city, Vancouver is probably one of the best in North America.

But you are totally wrong about the health care system in Canada, where are you getting your information?

1. When you say “they are trying to get rid of it” you should be saying that politicians like John McCain are trying to get rid of it. Not the general consensus of the voters.

2. Canadians do not wait months/years to see a specialists and get surgeries. I’ve had 3 surgeries since I’ve been here. I’ve never had to wait long at all; no longer than you would expect to wait to get fit in to any surgeon’s busy schedule (unless you want to look for a surgeon who is not busy, but that wouldn’t be my choice.}

3. In my 31 years of national health care I have never encountered a bureaucrat, nor has a bureaucrat ever been involved in my health care. This is also true of my wife, 3 daughters and 2 grandchildren. We each go to the Dr. of our choice.

4. Medical tourism is big business but Canadians and US resident’s do it for different reasons. Typically a US resident does it because including transportation, room and board the total cost is far less than getting the surgery at home. Canadians frequently do it solely for the vacation. Yes, it may speed the process if they are opting for cosmetic or other optional surgery, but cosmetic surgery is usually not the same as health care.

5. Your tax assumptions and cost assumptions are wrong.
a) Healthcare in Canada is NOT FREE. All provinces provide a basic health-care plan that all residents MUST pay for. Costs vary but are similar. My basic healthcare cost is $54.00/month (1 person). This entitles me to see a family dr when required, see specialists, as needed, for health reasons, receive needed treatment like health care required surgery and the hospitalization time and in-hospital meds.
Some employers pay for that insurance and it is taxable income. If you are on meds for a long term, after you’ve paid a certain amount, the government will provide some financial relief.

If you want more expansive coverage, like full perscription coverage, vision coverage, etc you can purchase this, from a private company, that dovetails their plan with the government’s plan.
Some employers will also provide this coverage. My wife has this through her employer and it covers a family of 4. I think the cost is about $600/year.

If your employer provides it, it is a taxable benefit. Like it or not, Obama is correct tax-wise. The record-keeping alone will cause an increase in cost to employers, many of whom will not want to incur the additional expense. Nowhere have I lived (Canada and the US) does a tax credit = a taxable benefit; credits are always less than the benefit.

The government also negotiates with drug companies on the price that they can charge. This is consumer friendly. The same drug produced by the same company cost more in the US than in any other country.

So in terms of who’s telling the truth, I am. I know what it is like, what it costs, how it is managed, and how it affects me.

My brother-in-law, a family of 4, lives in Seattle. He pays $1,500/month for medical insurance coverage that is not as complete as mine (basic + the private package. I would never question his right to pay whatever he wants for medical care.

So next is the unstated, but clearly understood concept of socialism which seems to be a bad thing in most conservative eyes.

Insurance of any kind is, in fact, a form of socialism. Everyone pays an insurer monthly/yearly payments to cover their costs in case they have a problem (house, car, health). Until you have a problem, your premiums are going to an insurer who, uses part of your money to pay claims by other people as they need it. When you need it, other peoples premiums help cover your claim. This too is socialism. I don’t know about you, but I’ve been paying house insurance for 25 years on the same house. I have never made a claim. Part of my premiums go to the insurance company to fund the cost of their operations and some is taken as their profit. The rest is kept in the pool for other people who have claims.

Let’s look at the car industry for a minute. Both candidates want to give taxpayer money to Detroit automakers. Why? When I was a married student at the U of O in 1970, my neighbor bought the first model of 4 wheel vehicle that Honda sold in the US. It was small but it got 45mpg. Pretty quickly Toyata, Nissan, Subaru all followed. They produced cars that were more efficient, better built and retained their value longer than cars the big 3 built. Executives at the big 3 did nothing to change their behavior and manufacture competitive vehicles. Why should the taxpayer fund companies whose executives simply chose to make bad decisions? This too is socialism, but of the worst kind. Nobody chooses to have a heart-attack.

Let’s look at the oil industry. McCain wants to give huge tax benefits to the most profitable industries in the US. Why? They are shareholder owned enterprises. They have cash assets. Why would the taxpayer want to give them money just so they could make more than they already do? Here’s where I get confused though. Palin and McCain have totally different views on the oil industry. In Alaska she did the right thing. She increased the royalties that oil companies paid for using public property. Did they like it, no. Did they pay it, yes. By increasing the royalties, Palin was able to eliminate personal income tax. That’s great. Alberta did this a few years before. A conservative government raised the royalties on the oil and gas companies. They too complained. Alberta has the lowest personal income tax in Canada. They also have a huge fund that is used for all kinds of public projects that don’t add a tax burden on the taxpayers. I don’t really understand McCain’s logic in giving the oil companies money.

Oct 7, 2008 - 10:29 am 48. CALIndie:

Think about it. We know what McCain should say and do and we’ve known for a long time. So why doesn’t McCain know? McCain is stuck in the good old boy politics of which he has been the poster child. He epitomizes the notion lifted up by the great urban philosopher Rodney King “Why can’t we all just git along.” McCain is living in Mr. Roger’s Neigborhood and Barack Obama is living with the Boyz-N-The-Hood who are ready to kick some cracker a**.

So when the American people need a maverick, someone who will kick a** and take names for liberty and freedom, we get grandpa smiley instead… my friend.

Watching John McCain blow such easy layups over and over again has become more than frustrating it is borderline dereliction of duty on his stated objectives. America has slipped into the abyss of socialst propoganda by the MSM only surpassed by the likes of China and Russia, and that isn’t easy to do! We are being spoon fed bullsh*t enriched with melamine by the MSM and Obama operatives while being told to just sit back and enjoy the meal.

John McCain should have spent the last 12 months ripping Obama to shreds. Can you imagine a new, fresh story about Obama’s despicable character, his more despicable Chicago politics and his global network of anti-American sympathizers delivered in a press conference every month and pounded for 30 days on the campaign trail. He could have then wrapped all 12 of these campaign messages up with a nice, neat little bow in October and blown Obama back to socialistville from whence he came.

We need to see more Gen. Patton and less Mr. Rogers and probably slap a few liberal socialists along the way. Barack Obama and Joe Biden should be first in line to get slapped across the chops… schlaaaaaaaaap by John McCain with the force and power of the truth. God help us!

Oct 7, 2008 - 10:37 am 49. Sandy:

1. Occidental College records — Not released
2. Columbia College records — Not released
3. Columbia Thesis paper — not available, locked down by faculty
4. Harvard College records — Not released, locked down by faculty
5. Selective Service Registration — Not released
6. Medical records — Not released
7. Illinois State Senate schedule — “not available”
8. Law practice client list — Not released
9. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate – - Not released
10. Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth — Not released
11. Harvard Law Review articles published — None
12. University of Chicago scholarly articles — None

13. Record of baptism– Not released or “not available”

14. Illinois State Senate records–”not available”

Oct 7, 2008 - 10:45 am 50. John:

Ed Wallis: Oct 7, 2008 – 9:46 am

“Ayers has never shown contrition for his bombing of Federal facilities..
Furthermore, McCain was fully exonerated and only called on “poor judgment” for attending one meeting vis a vis Keating.”

So why should Ayers show contrition for something with which he was never charged. It’s not like anyone was turning a blind eye to all of the activism that occurred during that time. I was in University then. I know what it was like. Lot’s of people who chose violent forms of protest ended up in prison when they were finally tracked down. If you are not charged, what are you guilty of?

How can you possibly think that the Ayers/Obama/Annenberg is so nefarious? Obama was 8 years old when Ayers was doing whatever he was doing.

And that John McCain’s association with a campaign supporter and friend with benefits who was defrauding his investors and customers while they were friends was so benign. And then to even try to intervene on behalf of a criminal.

Oct 7, 2008 - 10:54 am 51. Cyber_footpuss:

superb piece! Thanx and keep up the good work!
-Cyber W -

Oct 7, 2008 - 10:59 am 52. John:

Sandy:Oct 7, 2008 – 10:45 am

“1. Occidental College records — Not…
“14. Illinois State Senate records–”not available”

I’m not sure what is implied here.

What is the point in knowing his school records; to see if he performed better than John McCain who graduated last or nearly so in his class?

Medical records for both candidates were provided. McCains was 100+ pages long and Obama’s was 2 or 3. What’s the point. Both are apparently alive. It’s a fact that McCain is older and has suffered some pretty severe bouts of melanoma.

As for his Illinois voting record, we’ve already been told by McCain how many times Obama voted “Present”. (Can’t recall the number)

One set of senate records we can compare is both candidates voting records in the US Senate.
McCain holds the record for number of missed votes.
2nd place goes to someone who suffered a brain hemorrhage.
3rd place goes to Obama.

If documents are what concern you, you should focus your attention on the percentage and number of documents created by Bush/Cheney that are classified and unavailable. A while ago, I saw a graphical representation of this which, I think, started with Eisenhower. Whatever the percentage was at the time, it climbed to a peak during Nixon’s tenure. Then it started a downward trend that bottomed out during Clinton’s tenure. Once Bush/Cheney took over the graph shot up fast. What makes the time of this administration so different from the past that it needs to hide it’s decisions from the taxpayer?

Oct 7, 2008 - 11:22 am 53. Marc Malone:

John – You’re really showing your Obamabot colors in your later postings. The mask is slipping.

Ayers was charged. Case was thrown out for prosecution misconduct. Ayers admitted he was guilty. Later said “they didn’t do enough”.

I believe Keating 5 was McCain’s first term in office. He was a Congressman. He was new to AZ, and Keating was a big deal there. Keating wined and dined McCain, but McCain never “put out”. That’s why he was exonerated.

As for Canada’s healthcare system, don’t give me the tired come-on-in-the-water’s-fine nonsense. They have people die in the waiting rooms of hospitals there.

The numbers for McCain’s plan do work, and they are revenue neutral. The insurance is portable. If you get laid off, sure it’s hard to continue to pay for it, but how’s that different from now? The problem McCain faces on this issue, is that it’s harder to explain than Obama’s “it’s free” plan.

The real answer is still, “It’s the economy , Stupid!” The Dems know this. McCain has to hang this financial mess around the Dems neck. Then he has to ask them if they really want the government handling their healthcare the same way.

Mostly, though, McCain has to use humor. It’s his strength and Obama’s weakness. Obama can’t stand to be mocked.

If McCain can show some humility, too, that would be good. “I could have handled my initial reaction to the financial problem better, but I really was trying to go help solve the problem. it really wasn’t a stunt.

And yes, we ARE all campaign managers, now. Could we do worse than Schmidt? We know what people really want to hear, ’cause we’re people. I don’t have to run a restaurant to know what food I like.

Oct 7, 2008 - 11:55 am 54. Ed Wallis:

“John-only-Astroturfing-on-the-Side” 10:54am –
…said, “So why should Ayers show contrition for something with which he was never charged.”

HE WAS CHARGED, ONLY FOUND “NOT GUILTY” DUE TO IMPROPER EVIDENCE GATHERING. YOUR IGNORANCE IS LOUDER THAN YOUR LIES.

“It’s not like anyone was turning a blind eye to all of the activism that occurred during that time. I was in University then. I know what it was like. Lot’s of people who chose violent forms of protest ended up in prison when they were finally tracked down.”

THANK YOU FOR SHOWING EVERYONE HERE YOUR “gee, everyone’s doin’ it, dude, so, like, what’s problem, man?” MORAL RELATIVISM.

How can you possibly think that the Ayers/Obama/Annenberg is so nefarious? Obama was 8 years old when Ayers was doing whatever he was doing.”

OBAMA WAS QUITE THE ADULT IN THE 1990’s AS HE WORKED WITH AYERS WITH THE WOODS FUND. “GOOD LUCK” (/sarc) WITH YOUR DISINFORMATION CAMPAIGN (Axelrod really needs to pay you folks better, they might actually be able to THINK BEFORE they post).

Oct 7, 2008 - 11:57 am 55. John:

jb: Oct 7, 2008 – 10:10 am

“You sir are not worthy of any thought and your posts are not worthy of being read. The statement you made is the statement of a pathetic moron and I think that describes who you are. The POW’s of this country don’t deserve that kind of garbage from an ingrate like you. Grow up little boy; maybe your mom will let you use the computer after you have something intelligent to say.”

You make some mighty leaps here.

Talking about one specific POW in no way maligns all POW’s.

I was a married student, in university, when Nixon decided to eliminate all draft deferments because of the need for bodies to ship to Vietnam. I didn’t have the money or breeding to escape the lottery like Bush, Cheney…did. By sheer luck of the draw I wasn’t drafted and didn’t have to face the horrors that many others did.

24 of my close friends, however did end up in Vietnam. 11 of those came back from Vietnam. Of the 11 that came back, 2 had survived the tortuous conditions that awaited a POW. One of the 2 is so disfigured from the torture he received that has never been able to have any kind of normal life again.

Since then, I have met many veterans who were POW’s in that war. Most bear the tracks of their torture that went untreated.

The military code of conduct, at least at that time, was pretty clear on what a captured soldier was “allowed” to provide to the enemy.

I haven’t met anyone who chose to cooperate with the Viet Cong solely in their own self interest.

McCain actually talks about this in his book. Have you read it? Why does he feel bad about it? You only feel badly about things you do that are wrong.

As for moron, it’s the morons who fall for this line: “If you don’t support this war, then you don’t support our troops”. Adolph Hitler was the first person to use it. It was the best tool he had to convince the German population that his way was the right way and if you don’t support it then you are failing your fellow citizens. Did you think it was a Bush original?

What’s your knowledge of POW’s? How many friends of yours died by accident, bombing, gunshot or torture in a war?

As for the commenter who used the word “intellectual”; I really don’t get it. Why is it that anyone that actually uses their brain is “bad”? Why did God give us the brains we have; the most complex brain on earth? Do you think it was so we could act like sheep and simply buy a party line and not think for ourselves?

Oct 7, 2008 - 12:15 pm 56. fred:

cfbleachers, that was a brilliant response that you posted above (9:03 A.M.). I have often wondered why no one is looking at the obvious that is staring everyone in the face: that Obama follows the Gramscian Marxist’s Alinksy Model. It’s right in front of everyone – every rule, explanation, and line of it.

There have to be some disillusioned former socialists in Chicago or who were there to witness what Obama and his people were doing. I cannot believe that all of them remained faithful to Marxism after all these years. I was a Marxist from 1977 to 1987, not the activist kind, but the bookish undergraduate and then bookish seminarian who was analyzing both socialist thought and the critiques of it. Eventually I came out the other end realizing that it was simply impossible: incompatible with human nature and even the structure of knowledge and the world. Are there no other people who went on a similar journey and came out the other end as I did? Are they there? Will they speak out against this relentless, yet slow progression towards socialism?

Is Chicago such a murky, mucky place (BTW, I was a Jesuit seminarian who was at Loyola in Chicago for two years)that everything goes in and nothing comes out alive and free? Why are there not clergymen who loudly protest the heresies of Fr. Pfleger and Rev. Wright? Are there not any graduates of U. Chicago and Northwestern who can attest to this corrosive virus of a system of beliefs that would destroy the nation as we once knew it?

The Alinsky model is clearly a form of Communist strategy for the overthrow of the existing order. I issue a challenge to those who may have been, like me, on the inside of socialist thinking and who have since repudiated it. Come out and expose the lies and epistemological deceit.

Oct 7, 2008 - 12:15 pm 57. Believer:

It’s instructional to look at those cities/states that are in a mess today – or have been. And how many have been led by Democrat liberals and their tendancy toward corruption.

Louisiana first comes to mind. We saw how dysfunctional it was during Katrina – of course they deflected much of the blame there – as they’re doing now with F/F bailout. Finally Jindal-R – is working to turn it around. Yet Wm. Jefferson-D($90K in his freezer) is heading for his 10th term. They’ll keep sending that crook back to Washington no matter what.

Detroit, with its corrupt Dem mayor, and all of Michigan is in really bad shape.

California with a RINO Governor and all its welfare – not to mention being burdened by illegals, is on the brink of collapse.

Massachusetts – better known as Taxachusetts (and home to Barney Frank) – is in need of a bailout too. Liberalism leads to failure every time. It’s just a matter of time.

BO’s own Chicago has been a mess for as long as he and his pals have been there. He hasn’t improved anything at all – that is, if you don’t include the fatness of his wallet and his level of power.

With BO as POTUS working a Dem majority Congress/Senate – veto proof? – well, their tax and spend policies will be the death blow to our nation’s economy.

And God only knows what they’ll do with our money. I sure haven’t liked where he’s spent other people’s money so far.

Oct 7, 2008 - 12:57 pm 58. jb:

John, I don’t care about your BS life story, the way you phased what you phrased is clear enough and we can let the good folks here make up their own minds till then my comment still stands and your still a moron.

Oct 7, 2008 - 12:59 pm 59. John:

To All Above:

I support neither candidate. I’m actually trying to make up my mind. So far neither is winning my vote.

Ed Wallis: You got the moral relativism backwards. You can’t have it both ways is my real point. Why should McCain get a free ride for his sins while trying to nail Obama to a wall for his? As for morals, I try to keep this somewhat separate: John Kennedy was a known womanizer, while in office; Richard Nixon was a crook, thief and a liar; Clinton was another womanizer; McCain dumped his wife for Cindy Mc whom he met and developed a relationship while married. Which is the least moral; I certainly don’t know. It would be difficult to find any candidate who met everyone’s collective moral standard.

Maybe it is more productive to quit pointing fingers and try to discern the real character behind the masquerade of the campaign.

Marc Malone: So I guess you’re saying that McCain should be given a pass on the Keating thing because he was inexperienced? Is poor judgment a positive quality in any candidate?

As for the health care system, I’m not trying to sell you on anything. I do know that McCain’s knowledge of the implications of a universal plan is dead wrong. If you are basing your pro’s and con’s based on his information, you are doing yourself a disservice.

I certainly didn’t mean to imply that the Canadian Health Care system is perfect – it’s not. If you want to check the statistics, though you’ll find this:
The percentage of people who die in waiting rooms, just because of the waiting, is higher in the US than Canada.
The percentage of people who die because a hospital won’t admit is way higher in the US than in Canada (O in Canada)
The average life span (both sexes) is longer in Canada than the US.
The percentage of dead births is higher in the US than in Canada.

As for costs, neither candidate seems to be real forthcoming with enough details. About 2 weeks ago, I saw a report from an independent taxpayer friendly site that showed, after 4 years in office, McCain’s plans would result in a higher deficit than Obama’s (surprised me actually)

And yes it’s still the economy, especially since the addition of $850B in bailout and assorted pork that just got added. But why is it so essential to pin the current disaster on the dems or pubs? It’s a non-productive waste of time because it took the complicity of congress and the administration to make it happen. All I care about is what exactly did happen so that whatever is needed to keep it from happening again.

I guess I really want a candidate who is not afraid to tell the truth. The truth about what they plan to do, why they plan to do it and what is the impact of their plan.

Oct 7, 2008 - 1:14 pm 60. Believer:

Claude Castonguay(sp?) is considered the architect of Canada’s healthcare system. His program for Quebec spread from one coast to the other. He has admitted the system is in crisis now and in need of private sector aid.

IBD had an editorial earlier this year. You can ‘yahoo’ it. I just checked – “flopping aces” is one site who reported on it.

The horror stories were numerous that I’d read about and share with others earlier this year.

My daughter knows England’s lousy system. My sister knows New Zealand’s shortcomings: her husband might still be alive today if he hadn’t had to wait months for surgery.

Oct 7, 2008 - 1:14 pm 61. nomobama:

As a registered Democrat, I believe that this is not all McCain’s fault. I will be voting for him, as will other Democrats in my family. This is significant because 1) it is an unusual occurrence (it never happens that the Democrats in my family vote Republican), and 2) if it is happening in my family, it is happening in others. I know of others who will be doing the same thing, and we are doing it enthusiastically. With that said, what is the problem with the Republicans this year? You have a good candidate, and a segment of your party doesn’t seem to be getting on board. In an election such as this, which will have significant ramifications in the immediate future, they should be very enthusiastic. Yes, the economy stinks, and I do blame that largely on George Bush, but John McCain is not George Bush. I understand that George Bush still has support among diehard Republicans, but if these diehard Republicans cannot suck it up and support McCain by going to the polls on election day in large numbers, then apparently they do not see the ideological threat of an Obama presidency which makes me wonder about their professed love of America. John McCain is a patriot, more so than any other political candidate in some time. He deserves our support. On the other hand, Barack Obama is a conniving radical who is primarily concerned with himself, more than with America’s strength in the world. An Obama presidency is a threat to anyone who believes that political dissent is an important aspect of an American democracy. Wake up people.

Oct 7, 2008 - 1:18 pm 62. trangbang68:

John, There were 591 POW’s released in 1973 and a total of 800 POW’s. Of that relatively small number you no doubt have met several of them. I think you’re a poser and a liar. Of course you already established that fact with your initial lie that you were a McCain supporter. I don’t believe 24 of your closest friends went to Viet Nam and only 11 returned. I served in a line infantry unit in Viet Nam and we didn’t suffer 13 KIA’s in my tour. Your story is a pile of crap and you’re a liar.

Oct 7, 2008 - 1:24 pm 63. DavidN:

One difficulty with all of this: any attacks on Obama by McCain will be taken as unfair and unprovoked (as the attacks by Palin have been, after a month of hacked email accounts, rumors about her child, and accusations related to the Troopergate silliness), while Obama’s attacks on McCain will either be ignored outside of the battleground states they’re played in, or spun as reasonable responses to McCain’s unwarranted attacks. Has anyone even seen the Spanish-language attack ad the Obama campaign is running in New Mexico, the one that takes the Limbaugh quotes out of context? If it were similarly outrageous and directed by McCain at Obama, we’d be hearing about it daily on the evening news.

The difficulty is that if McCain attacks, he’ll be excoriated for going negative. If he doesn’t attack, he’ll look hapless before Obama’s surrogates, who leave him free to look presidential while they rip the opposing candidates, spreading rumors, distorting statements, and concocting outright lies. I don’t see any way out of this for McCain. Result: landslide victory for Obama in the fall.

Oct 7, 2008 - 1:32 pm 64. John:

jb:Oct 7, 2008 – 12:59 pm

“John, I don’t care about your BS life story, the way you phased what you phrased is clear enough and we can let the good folks here make up their own minds till then my comment still stands and your still a moron.”

I know it’s difficult to engage in a logical discussion and try to get your point across on its own merits; it’s much easier to fold up isn’t it?

A couple of questions for you jb:

Who was on watch when, all of a sudden, we had a new batch of injured soldiers coming back to get patched up in a hospital that was in about as good a condition as a third world hospital?

Which candidate opposed the recent bill that would, once again, provide soldiers who served in the armed forces with financial assistance to get a college education? Does the opposing candidate feel that risking life and limb on behalf of your country isn’t worth more than nothing?

Oct 7, 2008 - 1:43 pm 65. Phil:

Canadian life expectancy isn’t higher because of their health care system. It’s because they have less ethnic diversity. Black men, on average, die 6.3 years before white men, for example, which has to do with lifestyle. And Canada is only 2.5% black, compared to about 14% in the US.

As for infant mortality, the only reason ours is higher is that we count more live births. A baby that would be considered a stillbirth in Canada is kept alive longer in the US, and a percentage of them are eventually saved. Those that die, however, are counted in the infant mortality tables–which is ironic, because the US system is actually providing superior care.

Oct 7, 2008 - 1:49 pm 66. 888:

Read about The Real Obama on http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/tsowell/2008/ts_10072.shtml by Thomas Sowell.

Oct 7, 2008 - 2:00 pm 67. John:

trangbang68: Oct 7, 2008 – 1:24 pm

“John, There were 591 POW’s released in 1973 and a total of 800 POW’s. Of that relatively small number you no doubt have met several of them. I think you’re a poser and a liar.”

Believe what you like. I grew up in one town, went to University in a larger place and worked in San Diego, Philadelphia and New York. You meet a lot of people in that situation.
One of my very close high school buddies was a medic in the Air Force in Vietnam. After his tour, he became a nurse and works in the VA Hospital in my hometown. Through him, I met many soldiers from the Vietnam war.

I’ve already stated that I’m not a supporter of either candidate. My purpose in even being here is really trying to promote civil discourse to allow all of us to make good decisions about the upcoming election. If the collective goal on this board is to simply pat each other on the back, so be it. Seems to me that our elected officials at the federal level have let us all down. I’m not prepared to simply buy into a party line because I can.

I have learned that I need to check out ACORN. I admit I know nothing about it and what it may have to do with Obama, but I’m glad to have learned about something new to look into.

Believer: I do know a lot about urban development. The deterioration of the inner cities you mention isn’t attributable to politicians.

I don’t disagree that the old Democtatic Party machine political system was a bad thing. Politics had little to do with this problem.

Oct 7, 2008 - 2:08 pm 68. Believer:

Bush is responsible in part for our lousy economy to the extent he behaved like a Dem – the “compassionate” (read: let’s spend!and grow government) conservative he liked to call himself.

But this present crisis is pretty much the fault of Dems. Barney Frank probably holds most blame. Dodd, Schumer and the others who kept telling Bush (who tried 17 times in ‘07 alone) – even McCain who co-authored a bill – and other Repubs who said something had to be done to get control of Fannie and Freddie.

Lesson here is forget the other side of the aisle. Their path leads to failure – or trouble – every time. McCain should have learned. He attended a meeting with 4 other Dems and thankfully was exonerated of any culpability in the Keating 5 scandal.

He should remind us all it doesn’t pay to hang with Dems. They’ll get you into trouble every time.

Oct 7, 2008 - 2:20 pm 69. Believer:

John:

Michelle Malkin (michellemalkin.com) has the best info on ACORN.

Running out of house now, but will consider your other remarks. thanx

Oct 7, 2008 - 2:22 pm 70. kabud:

>John:

i have a close friend in Canada and he is telling me thing VERY MUCH different from your picture of Canadian medicine I dont trust you John

you are a lier

Oct 7, 2008 - 2:25 pm 71. John:

Believer:

“Claude Castonguay(sp?) is considered the architect of Canada’s healthcare system. His program for Quebec spread from one coast to the other. He has admitted the system is in crisis now and in need of private sector aid…”

Don’t get me started on Quebec.
Quebec seems to be a special case in every aspect of life. They do things there own way.

I’ll check out Claude, I didn’t think the system actually started in Quebec.

Believe me I’m not trying to sell anybody on anything, simply conveying my own experience of 31 years, most of which has been in BC, with a brief stint in Alberta.

Sorry to hear that your sister had such a bad experience.

Thanks for the IBD link, I’ll definitely check it out.

Oct 7, 2008 - 2:26 pm 72. John:

Phil:Oct 7, 2008 – 1:49 pm 888

“Canadian life expectancy isn’t higher…” Thanks Phil, I didn’t know the details of the information I had and it does make a difference.

I know that. technologically, the US is the leader in health care. I do wonder though if the cost will become so great that people, especially the older ones, decide that they can’t afford to live. I’ve read accounts of the early, pre-anaesthetic, days of surgery when, often, patients preferred to die from their ailment because they didn’t want to face the horror of surgery; will the cost of health become just too much for an average family?

888:Oct 7, 2008 – 2:00 pm
“Read about The Real Obama on…”
Thanks 888 I did check this out. Do you recall the New Yorker magazine issue that featured a cover with Obama and his wife on the cover? He’s lucky, I guess, that the cover was the only thing that was brought up. I read the article. Don’t know if it was the same author, but story was similar and very eye-opening. Winning was definitely his goal and he didn’t seem to mind stabbing a few friends in the back to get where he wanted to go. Scary.

I was rooting for McCain in 2004. I had no hesitation about that vote, but much has changed. I don’t think we’re getting the real straight talk from either candidate. At this point, they can’t promise anything economically with this bail-out bill and no one really has any idea whether it will be effective or not.

I think the debates should be more like the Gong Show. When a candidate starts to side step directly answering a question, the gong sounds. At least we could keep score!

Oct 7, 2008 - 3:14 pm 73. cedarford:

888:
How in the world is the US going to afford Obama’s pledged universal health care??? Look at what’s happening to California with all of its welfare and entitlement spending. Obama’s $1 trillion spending plan will bankrupt America forever, and then to top that, he’s going to tax companies which produces jobs. It’s pathetic that America is giving him a pass on this, too.

The rest of the world’s advanced nations have universal health care and pay 40-20% less per capita than the US with its vaunted “freedom-lovers” health care system pays while failing to cover 1/6th of its working population. Almost all those other nations have longer life expectancies. The question is how can Americans continue paying so much more than people in other nations for healthcare lawyers, insurers overhead, and “cost-plus” treatments and absurdly high drug and hospital prices that make our medical professionals and facility owners far richer than those in other countries?

momof3:
WHy do people STILL actually want universal healthcare? I just don’t get it! Nations that have it, hate it. Canada in particular, they are trying to get rid of it

That is not the case, as much as you would hope that other nations look at America’s “genius of the free market!” – PLUS “free healthcare for fatcats, welfare mammies, prisoners, AND illegals!!” healthcare system – with envy.

You imagine a world where all those nations that went with universal health care really love Big Pharma instead, and the idea of greedy nursing home owners, 3,000 a day hospital charges levied against working poor
showing the brilliance of American market forces and investor-owners giving Americans “The Best in the World!!”. Not hardly true, my dear! Where universal health care has really sucky quality and real antipathy exists over delays (frequently because the medical providers seek to get to America and double their income because the US medical community deliberately short-trains adequate workstaff)?? The debate is not how they can be “free” like Americans and pay 20-40% more and wreck their exports by surcharging health costs on products. The debate in Canada and the UK is how they can fix delays and loss of staff to lucrative US spots by being more like Germany, France, Japan, or Israel..

=============================
For Mccain in this debate, I am not hopeful. Any talk of old scandals or noble Iraqi freedom lovers or “saving the world with another war, against Iran!” is going to be highly resented in the face of no voters caring that much about those issues – considering the economic disaster and the possiblity that democratic capitalism and the good standard of life of Americans face destruction.

The trainwreck Bush and the Republicans gave us – ignoring all other problems to fixate on Iraq and fighting a small band of “Evildoers” and enriching themselves and fatcats – pretty well has screwed McCain. Saying Dems are also culpable is true…Barney, Maxine, Teddy & Co gave us the subprime…but voters identify Republicans as the Party of the Rich. The Party of the Wall Street fatcats, the ones who give tax cuts for the rich and who worship free trade, free markets, and a “deficits don’t matter” philosophy as always trickling down to all the happy camper middle class.

McCain hates the reviled Dubya, Liberator of Women from Burquas..about as much as any American now does. He has even better reason. Bush II fucked him in 2000, now has both hands locked around McCains ankles and dragging him down into the tarpits in 2008.

Yes, Obama is the most unqualified person who will ever be President…

He has scandals! His wife is a bitch! He and his Team Axelrod braintrust are actually Chicago machine apparachniks! The One never SUFFERED!!!! as a POW.

That doesn’t matter to the public that much anymore.

Better the snake oil salesman you don’t know, rather than the Republican devils YOU DO KNOW that led America to domestic and international disaster. And add that the Outsider Democrat is considered a more likely agent of change over the DC politicians for life (like McCain) such as Dems Devils Barney Frank, Teddy, Charlie Rangel that compounded the present financial disaster.

Oct 7, 2008 - 3:31 pm 74. John:

kabud: Oct 7, 2008 – 2:25 pm

“John:

i have a close friend in Canada and he is telling me thing VERY MUCH different from your picture of Canadian medicine I dont trust you John

you are a lier”

Sorry bud, you need to read all of the words, or were some too complex for you.

I said that in my 31 years of experience with the Canadian Health Care system, mostly in BC and some in Alberta, that neither I, my wife, my 3 daughters or 2 granchdildren have had any bad experiences with the system, nor do I know anyone has had bad experiences.

Neither I, my family nor anyone I know has had a bureaucrat stand in between me and my health care providers or forced me to use any specific provider. I never said it was perfect or problem free.

I have heard of bad health care encounters on both sides of the border.

I have never heard of a situation where a patient in need of critical care was refused admission to the nearest hospital. I have heard of situations in the US where this has happened because the patient’s HMO didn’t have a working relationship with the nearest hospital.

Oct 7, 2008 - 3:41 pm 75. Ed Wallis:

“John”, even accepting your premise/statement that you are undecided and want information:

1) there is a difference between “moral values” (which you refence) and “moral relativism” (which I addressed). Please note the difference (and note that few will differ with certain “values”).

2) Obama and his policies promote SOCIALISM. DO YOU WANT SOCIALISM for the USA? I do not. I know what it was like to live under it in former “Eastern Europe.” For more stability/security, you give up many freedoms and personal reasons to live (sometimes known as “motivation”). Cynicism, as practiced by the Democrats in the US and the Far Left IS ONLY A PRELUDE.

VOTE McCAIN/PALIN.

Oct 7, 2008 - 3:51 pm 76. Oct. 7th Link Roundup | THE HOT JOINTS:

[...] McCain needs to wake-up [...]

Oct 7, 2008 - 4:01 pm 77. Brian Richard Allen:

Poor ol’ RINO John McRainman (who still hasn’t gotten back to the fifty-odd of my family and friends who accepted his criminal-alien-amnesty offer of Fifty Bucks per hour Lettuce-Picker jobs) hasn’t learned — and likely never will — that given the choice between a “Democrat” and a “democrat,” the American Electorate, every damned time, will (albeit helped out by their usual several million criminal alien and other fraudulent “votes”) “elect” the “Democrat!”

Nobody loves a turncoat. Not our own and, as in this instance, not even the lifetime RINO, who, effectively, is the mobbed-up Marxist murtadd Muslim’s tamed and timid turncoat!

Meanwhile, during the past several weeks I’ve gone from, “I’ll hold my nose and vote for him because he is all that, however pre-Viagara-ishly, stands between the tattered remnants of our beloved fraternal republic and B Hussein’s Stalinist/Hitlerists,” to “I’ll hold my nose and vote for him because that will propel Governor Palin into the White House and save the world.”

But right now I don’t believe he deserves Governor Palin. And nor do the dozen or so of my family members and friends I’ve kibitzed this with.

Wake up, Captain McCain — or it’s all over for you, for America — and for the very Judeo-Christian/Western/Human Civilization we have long vanguarded and, with our blood and treasure, guarded.

Brian Richard Allen
Los Angeles – CalifOBAMAcated 90028

Oct 7, 2008 - 4:12 pm 78. Ed Wallis:

“BRA” 4:12pm –

SOOOOOOOoooooooooooooo…this is the new tact – the Axelrod/Kos theme of the day: “McCain is a RINO so vote Obama.”

Suddenly, I’ve seen this meme about 10 times…as of today, for the first time since the Republican primaries ended!

GEE…is Joe Biden’s plagiarism tendency wearing off on you guys?!

Oct 7, 2008 - 4:49 pm 79. Von Bear:

McCain needs to protect his kumbaya legacy and will never go against bipartisanship. Working accross the isle is his trademark and he has no interest in becoming president.

A president/leader is partisan by definition. Just ask Obama!

Oct 7, 2008 - 5:03 pm 80. vivo:

RE, JJ Sefton, Wallis:

Just what I thought: one-track minds, unpatriotic, isolated, hateful, jealous, inferiority complex, asocial, hearts of stone, misguided, intimidated, hypocritical right wingers.

I feel sorry for you.

If the bright minds of America come forward, a great health care system could be designed. These people come from all political affiliations. All they need is LEADERSHIP with vision and compassion.

Oct 7, 2008 - 5:03 pm 81. Someone75:

Momof3:

about the McCain health care tax – The cost is not offset by the tax credit. You don’t get that. It goes directly to the insurance company. You get taxed and you get nothing. How does that make sense? None of the experts think this is a good plan.

You don’t have to support universal health care to realize McCain’s plan will only make things worse. How about driving down costs?

Oct 7, 2008 - 5:05 pm 82. Someone75:

Does anyone actually believe that McCain is taking it easy on Obama? The McCain campaign is throwing everything they have at Obama, no matter how desperate. The reason nothing is sticking is because people don’t care about these non-issues. They will always be some ignorant people who think Obama is a terrorist because of his weird name. The majority is speaking through the polls. If McCain us “pussyfooting around”, don’t you think he’s smart enough to have given up that approach a long time ago?

Oct 7, 2008 - 5:08 pm 83. Von Bear:

Just a quick addition. Just a quick addition. Both candidates conjure a nightmarish image for me. America as a drug addled crack whore bleeding in the gutter.

Oct 7, 2008 - 5:13 pm 84. indiredondo:

Obama is Hiding a Radical Past…and I’m not talking about surfing or skateboarding. HA!

Oct 7, 2008 - 5:43 pm 85. Marc Malone:

momof3 – Yes there are many experts who say it is a good plan… and roughly revenue neutral. that means affordable, which is kinda important these days. Your employer pays for whichever plan you choose, and you get taxed as income on whatever he pays. But, you get a tax break for it, so you take an extra deduction. It gives you an incentive to find the plan you want, to provide the coverage you want, at the least possible cost.

The best thing is that it’s fully transportable. People no longer have to stay in the same job they hate, because if they change jobs (and thus, healthplans) their pre-existing illness (or their kid’s) isn’t covered.

Part of the reason for this, is that too many people are over-insured by their work, so they go to the Doc every time they get the slightest sniffle. They get every test, because the Doc talks them into it. Cost is of no importance. These are expensive plans, and they create a cost burden to everyone else. The cost goes up grossly every year, as people insist on keeping their platinum package.

All that said, I don’t want a great healthcare plan. I want a better healthcare system: one where they actually treat you as individual patients, and cure you rather than just treat your symptoms. We need to de-monopolize the medical system. The AMA has been a monopoly since 1849. There are cures out there that people don’t get, because they are provided by alternative medicine.

Oct 7, 2008 - 9:49 pm 86. Dave Surls:

“John, There were 591 POW’s released in 1973 and a total of 800 POW’s. Of that relatively small number you no doubt have met several of them. I think you’re a poser and a liar. Of course you already established that fact with your initial lie that you were a McCain supporter. I don’t believe 24 of your closest friends went to Viet Nam and only 11 returned. I served in a line infantry unit in Viet Nam and we didn’t suffer 13 KIA’s in my tour. Your story is a pile of crap and you’re a liar.”

I was wondering if anyone would catch that. Nice job.

Also, his comment about Dick Nixon and the draft was total hogwash.

Oct 8, 2008 - 2:15 am 87. Ed Wallis:

“Dave Surls,” your excerpt from “trangbang68″ was great…folks like “John” and “vivo” are truly little more than Axelrod shills, with hardly a millimeter of depth in their…ahem…arguments.

“Grab your guns and start praying when your desperate neighbors will try to dispossess you.” – (posted under “Is Mexico Really Dysfunctional?”) “vivo” spreading the Socialist revolution one post at a time.

Oct 8, 2008 - 4:34 am 88. Ed Wallis:

I wish McCain would put out a TV ad like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PECBIPeQpsA

MORE PUNCH, John.

Oct 8, 2008 - 5:29 am 89. Bobby McGill:

I think this may be the age where pussyfooting will get the votes. You see what the negative campaign ads have done for him, the personal attacks and so forth, while Obama, doing all he can not to come off (with seeming sincerity) as an “angry black man” as has been the offering of previous black candidates, steps above the fray, acknowledges the alternative opinion and gets right back on message.

Slash and burn isn’t working, pussyfooting might just be the new vogue.

Bobby
http://www.idlewordship.com

Oct 8, 2008 - 6:07 am 90. nlcatter:

public says Obama won al l3 debates so far!

you are a bunch of morons like creationist Palin!

Oct 8, 2008 - 8:20 am 91. David Alan:

It’s funny the assumption this piece operates under. Mr. Eckert is indeed an excellent GOP strategist, but has a blind spot. His advice to McCain that he start acting like a ‘Conservative who wants to WIN’ (my paraphrase) simply cannot be.

Why ? Because Mr. McCain is a big time Liberal, in GOP clothes. He’s been rated in the top 5 most Liberal senators in the entire Senate, including Democrats. He only appears ‘conservative’ when viewed next to Obama the Leftist. Quite the standard to be proud of, huh ?

We genuine conservatives revere the Constitution, hold to firm limits on Government power – even under a Republican administration. We’re Paleo-Conservatives, not Neo-Conservatives, we are proud of America’s foundation of Christianity and operate under the assumptions of the Declaration of Independance, and the Law it references, “The Laws of Nature & Nature’s God”, or Natural Law & Biblical Law.

Fred, let’s be honest, McCain hasn’t a ‘conservative’ bone in his entire body, his war hero status notwithstanding. He can’t act like one, because he’s not.

By the way, what are we ‘conservatives’ supposed to be conserving ? The gains of yesterday’s liberal victories ? One can simply resist the next Liberal innovation, and claim, plausibily to be a ‘conservative’, right ?

Most Americans have had it with phony God hating, Constitution denying, wimpy ‘reach across the aisle’ compromisers, which is where John McCain’s record proves he belongs.

It’s time to buck up some Godly, manly courage. As Thomas Jefferson said, “every 20 years or so there needs to be a Revolution” AMEN ! Not a bloody one, necessarily, but a Revolution of Honesty & of rejecting the lies our ears have become accustomed to.

John McCain is an insider, through & through. Obama is no better, just a fresher looking model, on the same tired “Goverment will save you” Philosophy. The first has a 20 year track record in the Senate proving this, and the other has mainly promises to promote the same failed ‘messianic state’, albiet with a fresh, hip charm masking this deceptive Principle.

The recent financial crisis showed their mettle, or lack thereof.

Both McCain & Obama showed their total lack of manly courage by backing the Bailout. Neither man has the backbone to embrace the rigor of discipline & accountability that would have showed.

We need to ‘think outside the box’ and reject the candidates of the ‘machine’.

If you want to find a genuine ‘Conservative’ check out the Constitution Party candidate, Chuck Baldwin. http://www.Baldwin08.com

No, absent an unforseen miracle, he won’t win. But that isn’t the point. It’s time to send a message to these schemers: You cannot trash Principles of Right & win elections. You cannot bail out huge investors & Corporate cheiftains of their bad investments & send the bill to the middle class taypayers, yet again. We’re catching on to the game.

You haven’t earned our vote & approval.

The Demopublican / Republicrat machine is intent on fooling Americans who love Liberty, by playing the good cop / bad cop routine.

For this, it deserves tooth & fang, Principled opposition, not blind support.

Send them the message by either staying home, or voting third party. You actually have 3 or 4 choices in that camp.

I suggest every Principled conservative consider Chuck Baldwin as a great option !

http://www.Baldwin08.com

Oct 8, 2008 - 12:15 pm 92. David Alan:

I know I said a mouthful on my prior post.

May I encourage any who think I was over the top in equating McCain in being, essentially, a Liberal akin to Obama to take a look at the voluminous evidence that they are both ‘big government Liberals’ ?

Take a look at this chart, and note the remarkable similarity of views that McCain & Obama share. Their are sources, linked, below every statement to substantiate the claims.

Americans of both parties have been hoodwinked, but especially us (mainly evangelical) Consevatives who reflexively keep voting for the ‘lesser of two evils’.

Proof:

http://www.KnowBeforeYouVote.com

The Founding Fathers rightly rejected a King George over America.

Their rallying cry was: “No King but King Jesus.” Do we even understand what they meant by that ?

Oct 8, 2008 - 12:31 pm 93. Alan Richardson:

John McCain’s recent vote for the pork-laden Senate bailout bill has all but assuredly cost him the election. No longer can he say that he puts the American people first. No longer can he claim to be the maverick. We don’t want someone who will hold his nose and vote for a bad deal anyway. We want someone who will say NO!

Can we expect any different when McCain is president? Can we trust him when he says he will veto pork-laden bills? He can’t even bring himself to vote no on a pork-laden bill. Here is the reality for McCain: His base of supporters actually care how he votes and will hold him accountable when he violates the Constitution. Obama’s base wants him to violate the Constitution as long as they get something out of it. Obama will not suffer for this vote, but McCain will.

He lost my vote, and I am sure he lost thousands of others. The maverick had a chance to take a stand once and for all, to fight against this bailout, and he caved. Can we expect any different when he is president?

Count me as another ‘dissenter’ who will likely be voting 3rd party. I’ve got a couple of buddies who’ve voted for the Constitution Party & it’s candidate before.

Time to start comparing notes with them. What else can genuine conservatives do ?

http://www.ConstitutionParty.com This is what the GOP should stand for, if it had the guts.

Oct 8, 2008 - 12:38 pm 94. Commontater:

Why has Sen. Obama NOT released ANY of the following:

1. Occidental College records — Not released
2. Columbia College records — Not released
3. Columbia Thesis paper — “not available”
4. Harvard College records — Not released
5. Selective Service Registration — Not released
6. Medical records — Not released
7. Illinois State Senate schedule — “not available”
8. Law practice client list — Not released
9. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate — Not released
10. Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth — Not released
11. Harvard Law Review articles published — None
12. University of Chicago scholarly articles — None
13. His Record of baptism– Not released or “not available”
14. His Illinois State Senate records–”not available”

Oct 8, 2008 - 2:26 pm 95. Believer:

Re government spending, McCain said he would take a look at every govt. agency and cut out what isn’t needed. He said this is a crisis of such proportion that it now requires it.

I want to believe him on this and I think it is our only hope to get out of debt and get things moving again economically. And return to smaller government. He voted for the bailout (with its pork) because he bought into the notion it HAD to be done – and fast. I wish he’d had better advisors. But then, how do we know things wouldn’t be worse if it’d been defeated. I claim no expertise that’s for sure.

I just wish he’d added last night that it was for reasons of smaller, better government that he brought Sarah Palin on board. And then reminded voters of her record of ridding her state of the burden of overspending and exposing corruption. He told us after naming her that she was a “soul mate” in this regard. She’s said that’s what he wants her to do in his administration.

Oh, I was so discouraged after last night’s debate, I was ready to stay home and not vote. It really doesn’t matter in my state anyway. Hawaii.

But it’s not the responsible thing to do. I have to know I did my best to see that the absolute disaster of an unqualified, morally challenged imposter becoming President does not occur. If you doubt that, consider just what he’s brought to his own party in the course of securing his nomination. They don’t have a group called Party Unity My Ass for no reason. A film will be released soon exposing the tales of intimidation, etc. during the primaries and caucuses. UnAmerican to say the least.

Who hasn’t heard of ACORN and their fraudulent activities – and BO’s ties to them? And money he funneled to them years ago (with terrorist Ayers’ CAC) – as well as the HUGE amount ACORN would have received in the first bailout plan? michellemalkin.com will fill you in.

This is a man who allows tactics no decent American should tolerate. He has a history of it. If anyone is ignorant of how thuggish he might become, you’d better get educated. Jerome Corsi may have escaped some real ugliness in Kenya not 24hrs. ago after looking into BO’s shenanigans there. They wouldn’t let him hold a press conference to reveal his findings. Hopefully, he’ll be home soon to report on what he’s discovered. Worldnetdaily.com has the story.

Some are worried about their Second Amendment rights. That isn’t the only one. Freddoso can tell us about his Right of Free Speech being compromised by BO’s goons. And you don’t think this isn’t but the beginning of horrors should this man get more power? He doesn’t respect our laws or our values.

I have to know I’ve fought this nightmare all the way to the end. And that includes my vote for the candidate with the best chance to defeat him.

Oct 8, 2008 - 2:44 pm 96. John:

Congratulations everyone. With the additional $115B money to AIG, and according to the limited information our governemt provides, we now own 108% of a company of unknown real value. We’ve overpaid for something we don’t know the value of. Did you enjoy the $400K vacation that our new AIG employees took at our expense?

McCain certainly added additional promises to lighten our wallets last night: we’re going to buy thousands of mortgages. I certainly don’t think his idea of putting medical records on the internet is a good idea; identity thieves heaven.

Palin is the only thing that keeps McCain afloat and last night he reached his Hillary moment: the point at which it is clear that winning is the only goal, not leading. One of Palin’s achievements, though, is in direct opposition to McCain’s: Oil. She raised the royalty oil companies pay to the sta, allowing the elimination of personal income tax, for the right to access oil; McCain wants to give them money. There is a huge irreconcilable difference here and Palin is right; do you really think McCain is going to change his mind?

Given the financial gyrations we’re experiencing, both candidates should be presenting us with a solid 4 year plan that relates their specific agendas with their plan to extract us from economic disaster.

Unless somebody starts looking at this economy in a strategic way (Paulson isn’t, he’s just tossing out money as each issue arises) it will be beyond our control. Coordination with other countries is now critical.

So far neither has done this though Obama has come closer.

Believer: Oct 8, 2008 – 2:44 pm, 2008 – 2:44 pm
I did check out the link to Malkin you provided. I throughly read her words and those of her attachments. I also contacted the reporter at the LV Sun as well to get some additional information.

Malkin’s own post showed that:

ACORN Las Vegas did everything professionally and above board.

If there is any fault to attribtute to anyone, it has to go to the Election officials.
In 2007, NV tightened their registration guidelines. At least the Las Vegas office did nothing until mid July 2008 including responding to ACORNS Nov 2007 submission of a batch of known duplicate registrations with the names of the fraudulent canvassers.
When Election officials finally got their act together mid July 2008, they asked to meet with ACORN and requested a 2nd copy of the previously submitted documents.
In my work I frequently have to deal with various governmental agencies. Asking for a 2nd copy means: we lost/misplaced the first copy (or we don’t have access to a copy machine).

Further, Malkin’s article had no point other than an inflammatory headline and a reference to “mobsters” which linked to a picture of a group of ACORN employees, but no explanation of mobsters of how the picture explained her description of ACORN as mobsters except name-calling.

The only conclusion that can be drawn from Malkin’s own post is that her only objective is to inflame, incite, foment ill will against:
blacks, or
community organizers, or
people who may be a tad over weight, or
casual dressers, or …

When I went to her site, I recognized the name. I’ve been doing in-depth research into this financial quagmire. Her article I found earlier was how the illegal aliens are responsible for the economic mess.

She provided no evidence that hordes of illegal immigrants forged loan documents (which would be counterproductive) or armed themselves and forced loan officers to write them loans.

They got the loans just like thousands of other citizens. Lending agencies went above and beyond to ensure they handed out as many mortgages as possible; it didn’t matter whether the borrower was legal, employed, solvent or anything else. I’m positive, when all is said and done, that we’ll find out how many people were dead at the time they got a loan.

Sneak summary preview:
If anyone is looking to pin this fiasco on any single event, person, party, agency or institution; all will be dead wrong.

The problem is the unwitting participation; and coincidental timing of your favourite republicans and your most hated democrats (or vice versa); the leaders who pushed through a critical financial deregulation item; financial regulators who decided to sleep at the switch and enforce a specific regulation that would have signaled this problem much earlier; the greedy Wall Streeters and Main Steeters; and close associates of the man who brought us the Junk Bond disaster in the ’80’s.

If you’re keen on blame, those are the ones to go after.

Oct 8, 2008 - 6:22 pm 97. John:

One, very small, bright light in this dark economic gloom: I no longer have a grocery bag full of credit card junk mail to clog the garbage with every week! I’m getting none.

Oct 8, 2008 - 6:36 pm 98. John:

Ed Wallis: Oct 7, 2008 – 3:51 pm

“John”,DO YOU WANT SOCIALISM for the USA?”

Short answer: no
Fact: It’s already in the USA, so it’s really a matter of what and where. You mentioned that Socialism is demotivating which it can be but it depends on what is being socialized.

What’s really needed is a change in behaviour. No better way to do that than put the cost of all governmental expenses on a pay/use basis.

Programs:
-FDA: Why should I pay for the testing of drugs I don’t use? Put the cost’s of this agency directly on the drug itself that way every pays according to their use.
-Airline regulation/Transportation Safety: the cost of these should be borne only buy those who use the airlines. I used to fly a lot. I don’t anymore. User pay.
-Put them all on the list including food safety and financial regulators (I’m smart enough to have avoided any investments that are highly leveraged or hold MBS’s and Commercial Paper)
Can’t decide yourself, then the new, privatized agency will be glad to look at any investment you want for a fee.
-Especially interest rate regulations: The only thing I needed a loan for is a house, everything else is cash. Let the borrower and lender work out their own terms. Your loan shouldn’t cost me any money

Armed Forces: Bush/Cheney got a good start. Put it all out to contractor’s on an if when basis. Why have a standing armed forces to maintain. There isn’t anything here that isn’t possible to contract out.

Facilities:
Smithsonian, Library of Congress and all the other public accessible facilities; pay as you go. None charge the true cost of admission

Same at the local level:
-Fire Departments: Why should I pay to save someone else’s house? Either charge/use or let each household worry about their own solution.
-Libraries?: I buy what I want to read, you can too, or put a charge on usage that covers the cost.
-Schools?: My children are way past that. I can afford to send my grandchildren to private schools. They are just another tax drain on me and thousands of others.
-Water, Sewage, Garbage: All should be charged on a volume basis.

Elected officials at all levels: Establish base pay and let the constituents pay the total cost for their respective representatives. No one should simply get a lump-sum no receipts required expense allowance, and constituents should pay the expenses incurred by their representatives.

-Senate and House offices (federal and state): dead simple to apportion costs on a sq ft basis and put the costs directly to related constituents. No better form of cost control than having to negotiate with your constituents directly to change behavioiur.

NASA and all other publicly funded science programs. Exactly what is the benefit for the cost to any individual? Let private enterprise figure out how they can make some money out of a need for research and let them have at it.

Highways and Roads at all levels: Would be easy to install chips in all cars and read them on an annual basis. Divide the cost on a mileage/weignt basis so heavy users pay more than light users and for the many who don’t drive; they pay nothing. This alone will change oil consumption.

All public funded office/workspace: I know how easy it would be to cut the amount of space consumed for the millions of square feet of space we pay for by at least 20% and more likely 40% without even decreasing staff.

Now I know I’ll get lots of comments about how ridiculous this is, but the facts are still correct: THIS TOO IS SOCIALISM.

The only reason anyone would want to retain the all pay some use socialized system we have is solely for personal self interest.

I’ll support anyone who says they can make this happen. The sooner the better.

Some people will see a massive tax reductions, others will see the opposite, but at least the costs will be borne by all based on their usage: as it should be.

Oct 8, 2008 - 8:07 pm 99. Believer:

John:

I didn’t read what Michelle had to say about Nevada. I’d only heard (middle of the nite for me) hours earlier on FOX that a number of voter applications (5) had been filled out for a Monica Roy, I think was the woman’s name. I assumed they were from the Nevada raid, and Michelle was reporting on it.

Tonight, Michelle posted an update: “ACORN Watch. When It Rains It Pours” — you might want to read about what has been discovered in the following states: Missouri, Connecticut, Wisconsin, Ohio, Indiana. Or you can watch her discuss these findings on FOX about 8:00AM tomorrow.

I hope to be awake – tho I’m six hours behind the east coast – to listen. I’ll be glad when this campaign is over and I can return to normal hours! I’m sorry you think so little of her work. Many of us admire what she’s accomplished over the years.

And I’m sure you’ve misread where she places the blame for our economic crisis. You might want to follow what’s been reported in other articles at PJM on the Fannie/Freddie fiasco and Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Chuck Schumer and Maxine Waters who counseled Republicans to “never mind, these institutions aren’t in trouble” when McCain and Bush and others sounded the alarm.

There are some links to videos that show the development of this crisis from its inception with the Community Redevelopment Act. I have an idea you won’t believe, though, what your eyes and ears tell you.

Oct 8, 2008 - 9:16 pm 100. John:

Believer: Oct 8, 2008 – 9:16 pm

“I didn’t read what Michelle had to say about Nevada. I’d only heard (middle of the nite for me) hours earlier on FOX that a number of voter applications (5) had been filled out for a Monica Roy, I think was the woman’s name. I assumed they were from the Nevada raid, and Michelle was reporting on it.”

Re: NV. Malkin’s own post showed that ACORN NV was a)checking all registrations employees provided. All duplicates were separated along with the name of the canvasser responsible. They fired employees who didn’t respond to the warnings about substandard production and those providing bogus registrations. NV officials chose to do nothing about the batch of bogus registrations ACORN provided in Nov 2007.

I did stumble upon another post of Malkin’s where she identified the purpose of her “crackhead” post was to show that “inmates were rising up the ranks of ACORN”

This is just as bad as the original post that was simply inflammatory. The inmates were, obviously, suitable for day leave. What should ex-inmates do?
a) be prevented from gainful employement, to learn skills and become productive members of society and continue criminal activities and remain a drag on us?, or
b) be permanently incarcerated which means we pay for all of their living requirements for the rest of their lives?
In my city, there is a print shop (architectural prints, custom graphics…)that is over 30 years old. The founder only hired ex-convicts because he was one himself and he knew how difficult it was to get back in to society. Now, the owner has retired and sold the business to the ex-convict employees who continue the tradition.
It is the best place in town to get that kind of work done: excellent service, good prices and quick to make good any screw-ups.

For Malkin to express anything that suggests ex-convicts should continue to suffer (even though they have paid for their crimes) is not only inhumane, but not even smart.

Her illegal immigrant article clearly expresses the view that illegal immigrants are at fault.

“And I’m sure you’ve misread where she places the blame for our economic crisis. You might want to follow what’s been reported in other articles at PJM on the Fannie/Freddie fiasco and Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Chuck Schumer and Maxine Waters who counseled Republicans to “never mind, these institutions aren’t in trouble” when McCain and Bush and others sounded the alarm.”

As I said earlier: This problem is not the result of just one party. Yes, I agree that the above named are complicit, but McCain spearheaded a deregulation that promoted the sale of these MBS’s which caused Fannie/Freddie to get where they are, Cox did not fill a position required to montior one of the few regulations that would have, at least, flagged the problem earlier. Clinton did urge lenders to try and accommodate sub-prime borrowers. When the entire financial industry realized that there was money to be made simply by getting loans out the door (regardless of the borrowers capacity) all hell broke loose.

As said, no one of any of these actions alone could have created this situation (I’ve spent a great deal of time looking into this), but if you remove the specific names, labels from the cast of characters a law enforcement investigation might wonder about collusion. I’d bet anything against that notion.

If we recognize the reality of events and understand that a sheer coincidence of timing was involved, perhaps we can just move on and spend the effort fixing the problem and setting whatever regulations are needed to avoid a reoccurence. I don’t care whether a republican or democrat is president. The problem needs to be fixed.

“There are some links to videos that show the development of this crisis from its inception with the Community Redevelopment Act. I have an idea you won’t believe, though, what your eyes and ears tell you.”

I always believe my eyes and ears and never imagine that a speaker/writer means anything other than what the originator intends.

I’ll see what I can find re your above links.

As I’m hearing the news now, HUD has discovered that 5M illegal aliens have loans headed to foreclosure. The lending institutions who provided these loans shouldn’t have.

What a mess, and neither candidate is really addressing this problem in a serious way!

Oct 9, 2008 - 4:56 pm 101. vivo:

John Oct 8, 2008 – 8:07 pm:

You have some very good ideas and some bad ideas. Your effort is commendable.

Oct 10, 2008 - 2:57 am 102. John:

Believer: Oct 8, 2008 – 9:16 pm
I did check out the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA)and found this well thought out analysis by, I believe, a republican:

http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/regv17n4/vmck4-94.pdf

Coles Notes version:
JC enacted the CRA which prevented regulated financial institutions from denying loans to be based solely on their address (see redlining) and not based on their ability to pay.

The CRA was tweaked, over the years and, in fact, the changes were counter productive to it’s own objectives.

The CRA never (and really couldn’t) required that regulated financial institutions make loans to unqualifed borrowers.

vivo: Oct 10, 2008 – 2:57 am
Well, thanks, I guess.
For me, the only purpose in posting ideas is to further discussion. I don’t fear criticism, negative or positive, as long as it is based on logic and is explained.
What you believe may be good or bad furthers nothing which only raises the question what is your intent? To give grades?

Oct 10, 2008 - 9:54 am 103. SHARON J:

I AM A REGISTERED DEMOCRAT AND FOUND OUT THE TRUTH ABOUT OBAMA AND HAVE CHANGED MY MIND AND WAS GOING TO VOTE FOR MCCAIN, BUT HE IS DOING NOTHING TO TELL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THE TRUTH. OBAMA HAS CHALLENGED HIM TO SAY IT TO HIS FACE WHICH I DOUBT HE WILL. HE CONTINUES TO GET THE CHANCE TO TELL THE TRUTH AND PEOPLE IN THE RALLIES ARE BEGGING FOR HIM TO TELL THE TRUTH BUT NOTHING. I HAVE WORKED FOR 3 WEEKS GETTING THE TRUTH OUT BUT I AM DONE. MCCAIN IS NOT GOING TO FIGHT FOR US SO I AM THROUGH.

Oct 10, 2008 - 4:35 pm 104. vivo:

John:

Sorry for not being specific with my “grades”. Just ran out of time. Hope you can figure out the good ones from the bad ones. Some good ones are really good ones. Sorry again.

Oct 11, 2008 - 3:34 am 105. FRANK TREJO:

The rich invented communism to control and make lots of money. The operating tool designed to accomplish the goal was the Communist Manifesto. The deplorable condition that exists in our country can be attributed to the 2nd – 4th – 5th – 10th plank of the manifesto.
It all started when criminals in Washington D.C. gave up the control of our monetary system to the international bankers in 1913. Once in control it behooved them to corrupt our constitutional system into the socialist/welfare state. As you know, under socialism governments grow and grow and government becomes a voracious spender and liberties are curtailed. We have been communized and until you accept the fact, all your attempts to correct things with words, just as I am doing, will do no good, bit I’ll try just the same.
The only way out of this economic bondage is to unite all third parties under one umbrella to attack the two-party in control that will never do whats right. The second tool is to repeal the 17th Amendment.
Our founding fathers were brilliant. Before the 17th, State Legislatures chose two people (senators) to protect state rights. Like everything else that principle was destroyed by the powers at be. Imagine, if we reverted to the way it use to be we would prevent the lobby industry to control the thieves in Washington.
The economic crisis we are experiencing has happened several times in our history. It is nothing new. I believe it has been intentionally designed to make a drastic change in the way we live.
The bankers have always wanted to reduce our country to 3rd world status and I believe this is a continuation of what they started many years ago.
All this is being accomplished because of the subversion of the three branches of government. Every single elected person (545 – including Supreme Court Judges) are responsible for the destruction of our Constitution.
As I close, I repeat, we have been communized and our liberties and freedoms are on the verge of extinction. We need action now! We have criminals running our government and the mainstream media has becomes our second biggest threat. Keep your 2nd Amendment intact.

Oct 12, 2008 - 5:35 am 106. Eckert’s advice for McCain « Mirage 2008:

[...] …read on here. [...]

Oct 13, 2008 - 4:04 am 107. LMaudio:

John McCain KNOWS who his Treasury Secretary will be. HE MUST tell us who he will appoint to this position and other positions in his administration. He can announce his appointments at Hofstra and he can explain how each will assist him as President. He can thus tell everybody watching the debate about his administrations approach to the economy and national security. He can stress that he will be ready to lead from day one. barry is not, and will never be ready to lead.

Oct 13, 2008 - 2:01 pm 108. McCain todavía puede ganar … gracias a Palin « Sarah Palin en Español:

[...] 7 de Octubre, Fred J. Eckert, ex-Congresista Republicano, escribía en Pajamas Media el artículo “McCain Must Wake Up and Quit Pussyfooting Around” (McCain tiene que despertar y dejarse de medias tintas), de elocuente título, donde Eckert dice: [...]

Oct 16, 2008 - 4:38 pm

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