116 Comments

1. John:

The concern, of course, is that the replacement Obama picks could be even worse than Panetta, though in the far-less hospitable climate the president has right now and with the 2010 midterms getting closer, Senate Blue Dogs facing re-election aren’t likely to rubber stamp anyone seen as sympathetic to Holder’s planned prosecutions.

Aug 25, 2009 - 10:37 am 2. Paddy:

If he quits, who is up for the job? I heard or read somewhere that John Kerry would take the position. Any thoughts on this?

Aug 25, 2009 - 10:38 am 3. Marc Malone:

Well, of course. Who here did not see this coming? Please raise your hands. No one? Okay, then. And in case you’re wondering, the Sun rose in the East, today.

Aug 25, 2009 - 10:43 am 4. masstexodus:

The Black Panthers get off scott free for voter intimidation (and they had a default judgement against them), but Holder wants to go on a fishing expedition against the CIA guys who actually protect us from terrorists. This is like a bad episode of “24″. What are the priorities here?

Aug 25, 2009 - 10:46 am 5. Anonymous:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/aug2009/blac-a24.shtml

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2006/09/sb-revolving-door-blackwater-1158094722

http://www.alternet.org/world/87200/

The issue is blackwater , Now called Xe, is setting up a civilian version of the CIA, outside the regulations that govern actions such as assassination programs, renditions, torture, etc. Many CIA officers are leaving govt positions to take higher paying jobs at Xe. This is dangerous and rightly needs to be examined closely and with extreme prejudice.

Aug 25, 2009 - 10:48 am 6. BD57:

John Kerry?

On one hand, it would get him out of the Senate.

On the other …. John Kerry?

John “Winter Soldier” Kerry? John “Seared in my Mind” Kerry? John “For it Before I was Against It” Kerry?

Well, he’d clean out (not up, out) the CIA…

Aug 25, 2009 - 10:51 am 7. Dave:

I wonder if gutting and destroying our intelligence community via politicization and weakening our national defense was the hope and change people voted for. This group of Democrats is a national disaster and cannot be fired fast enough.

Aug 25, 2009 - 10:52 am 8. Django:

John Kerry as head of CIA? Wow. He’d launch investigations of American war crimes in Vietnam. Sometimes it seems like America has decided that pointing a gun at its own head and pulling the trigger is a brilliant self-improvement plan.

Aug 25, 2009 - 10:56 am 9. Runningdog:

These are important first steps toward the dismantling of the CIA. This week, the agency’s integrity has been damaged significantly and a large portion of its mission taken away. Just as the so-called Stimulus bill was payment to numerous organizations that supported Obama, the GM and Chrysler take-over payment to the unions (along with ObamaCare), and the investment of several billion taxpayer dollars in Brazilian oil exploration a repayment to co-investor George Soros, this destruction of the CIA certainly rewards Bill Ayers for his support for President Obama.

Aug 25, 2009 - 11:07 am 10. Sean:

The CIA worked diligently to get Obama elected, so why the hell would I give a bleep if their chickens come home to roost?

We don’t need a political intelligence agency. They’ve done far more harm to this nation than good, without question. Shut it down, let the Pentagon take over.

Aug 25, 2009 - 11:07 am 11. blackwell:

Panetta can be an official in the dull footnotes, or stand up for the right thing, unpopular as it may be inside his party.

If he knuckles under and allows the CIA to be put on a spit, he will be the Admiral Turner of his day. “The director when that crippling investigation occurred.” His last government job will be another failure of spine, another loss for the good guys.

The Church investigations, prompted by far left democrats elected in the bad 1970 economy like those elected now, badly hurt the CIA. Director Turner did even more damage, shucking the veterans who were later sorely missed. Ask Bill Clinton.

Panetta probably never expected to be the CIA’s champion. But fate has put him there, in what will be perhaps the last post he will have with any real power. He owes it to all Americans to step up and oppose the special prosecutor and protect the agency.

Aug 25, 2009 - 11:12 am 12. Rob in L.A.:

Maybe in the land of make believe, toward which a “progressive” appears to progress, the creed of “We don’t spank our children” somehow inspires the world to take a higher ground.

Those kids we don’t spank, they’re the “nobody” in nobody’s listening. Then again, I honestly refuse to believe that the hallowed halls in Washington D.C. stand vacant of these realities.

Aug 25, 2009 - 11:14 am 13. goy:

Smart.

BHO and his Keystone Kops Kabinet are getting the one organization of individuals on the planet capable of excavating and leaking all of his carefully hidden secrets… “all wee-weed up”.

I’m making popcorn. Who wants butter?

Aug 25, 2009 - 11:14 am 14. Do the Math:

Just another example of Stupid & Aggressive at work in Washington D.C.

If there has ever been a larger collection of fools and dolts at work, I can not remember it.

Aug 25, 2009 - 11:15 am 15. Sherab Zangpo:

This administration is the subversives’ dream come true.
Cut the defense budget.
Investigate the CIA.
Destroy the dollar.
Nationalize banks and insurances and car industry.
In eight months !
At this pace, the commies will have to declare that Lenin was a little slow compared to Obama.

I guess we have to start the countdown to the next islamist massive attack.

Thank you for the opportunity to comment.

PS The subversives keep not understanding that to the eyes of the muslim fanatics they are as much an American Satan as Reagan and Bush, let’s hope that their waking up to reality doesn’t involve a bloodbath of American Citizens.

Aug 25, 2009 - 11:21 am 16. Brian G.:

Poor CIA people. They spent years doing everything possible to undermine Bush. Now, they are getting the result that anyone with half a brain would have seen coming.

They have no one to blame but themselves.

Aug 25, 2009 - 11:22 am 17. Old Soldier:

The chair-warming inside DC career civil-service types (the Valerie Plames) were helping Obama with leaks. The actual spies and war-fighters certainly weren’t.

Appoint a leftist hack like Kerry and the only ones left at the Agency will be career losers. I hope Xe is good – they’ll be our only source of human intelligence and operational capability. I hope they have good lawyers too.

Aug 25, 2009 - 11:22 am 18. Anonymous:

Uncovering CIA wrongdoing hurts us all. We won’t be able to good little Germans and claim, “I didn’t know!”

Aug 25, 2009 - 11:26 am 19. seven:

I want Jane Fonda.

Aug 25, 2009 - 11:30 am 20. genghis:

Obama and his minions are in the process of destroying this country. criminal negligence. After we are attacked again as a result of his policies, the first order of business, after the dead are buried, will be to impeach this sorry specimen.

Aug 25, 2009 - 11:31 am 21. Samizdat:

What Eric Holder is doing will devastate our Humint capability which relies on an agressive posture and unambiguos internal support because of it’s covert nature. Good intelligence gathering requires risk taking and association with undesirable people. It also may involve unsavory tactics dependiong on the stakes.

What Holder is doing will diminish the incentive to take risk and seize initiative. When our enemies are armed with nuclear weapons and do not, according to their religous interpretation, consider us to be human, loss of aggressiveness could have fatal consequences for both our civilian and military populations. Panetta should be adopting a very firm tone with Holder, General Jones, and the President. It appears just the opposite is happening.

We are a nation where the rule of law sets the tone for our contract, governed to governor. That being said, Holder knows better than most that there is prosecutorial discretion that persons of judgement can exercise. He is showing that politics is more important to him, in this judgement, than national security. There is no virtue internationally in his chosen course of criminal sanction, in fact allies may be caught up in his net which will teach them to stay away in the future and withhold cooperation after the next 9/11. Our enemies are laughing at this turn of events.

Holder is as pernicious as the President is weak. How utterly naive and foolish. How completely pathetic they both are.

Aug 25, 2009 - 11:36 am 22. Sidney Weinberg:

Leon Panetta is doing exactly what he set out to do as directed by President Obama. The manufactured scandals are just spin. Panetta and Holder are one and the same – and both report directly to the President.

Panetta is not going anywhere. He is exactly where he is supposed to be. And he is accomplishing his task admirably.

Why can’t people of intelligence take the Democratic Party elite and leadership at their word. The Democratic Party seeks the destruction of the CIA. For goodness sake, this has been Democratic Party policy for as long as I have been alive.

Aug 25, 2009 - 11:43 am 23. misanthopicus:

… and after the dust will settle and the radiations lessen, the lamenting ghost of Susan Gorelick shall haunt them all, be they in orange overalls in Federal Courthouse, in hiding in Havana or Caracas, or still trying to have fun at Martha’s Vineyards or San Raphael Valley… sight to behold, my friends… sight to behold…

Aug 25, 2009 - 11:47 am 24. goy:

@20. genghis: – the first order of business, after the dead are buried, will be to impeach this sorry specimen.

I worry that it’s more likely he’ll end up like this guy.

And for all the same reasons.

The obvious and very real tragedy, of course, is that it will set race relations in this country back 150 years.

What bothers my conscience (seriously) is trying to decide whether or not that wouldn’t be a justifiable price to pay for waking the People out of their apathetic stupor and ridding this country of the socialist once and for all.

Aug 25, 2009 - 11:48 am 25. Rachelle Young:

Hard to feel sorry for the sad sacks in the CIA who did all they could to undermine President Bush and seat Obama. Still, I worry for the country now that we have an emasculated, terrified and compromised intelligence service. We are more vulnerable.

Aug 25, 2009 - 11:58 am 26. arhooley:

If we abolished the CIA, would it matter? Could the military and the FBI gather all the intel we need?

Aug 25, 2009 - 12:07 pm 27. Bart:

The politicized CIA did everything it could do as an agency to destroy George W. Bush. At every turn, they worked against him, leaking confidential information, supporting the so-called “outed spy”, Valerie Plame and gave credibility to her idiot husband and his twisted tales about Hussein trying to buy yellow cake. Now, they chased the perverbial car like a dog and caught it. Ever see the puzzled look on a dog’s face when you stop when they are chasing your car? They don’t know what to do and they have no loyalty left. The mess is of their own making but unfortunately, we will pay for their politicization of the agency. Who would want to go to work for any company where the inmates are running the asylum?

Paneta made a choice. He accepted the position even though he was the most imcompetent choice imaginable, which is atypical of Obama’s picks for any position. Now, he must pay the consequences and thrust the final dagger through the heart of the CIA. One more sunset agency that will die a dishonorable death.

Aug 25, 2009 - 12:11 pm 28. billslayer:

I hate to say this but here goes:This is an attempted distraction from the healthcare debate. Obama and co are definitely willing to throw Panetta under the bus in order to get bloody pictures on the front page of the NYT. Turn the narrative back to “it’s Bush’s fault.”
BUT just as you cannot ask “Who is Joe Wilson” without running squarely into the person of Valerie Plame, you also cannot gain an understanding of interrogation practices during the Bush years without finding out about interrogation practices during the Clinton. Namely, PPD 39 and the rendition of terrorists to Egypt for ACTUAL torture.
Is this an accident? I doubt it. Obama wants the Clintons disgraced and discredited more than anyone on earth.

Aug 25, 2009 - 12:17 pm 29. mpw280:

Lets see if the CIA thinks it is as good a policy to put out leaks on Obama like they did under Bush. Their leadership wanted to play politics and now politics has them by the short hairs. It will take a long time before we have a CIA that is rebuilt and useful. mpw

Aug 25, 2009 - 12:23 pm 30. Delia:

Who’s funding this crap sandwich?

Aug 25, 2009 - 12:24 pm 31. Sebastian Shaw:

Since President Obama has yet to fill in his own cabinet, 17 in the Treasury alone, combined with the incompetence of Timothy Geithner & now with the meltdown of Leon Panetta from the CIA in only 7 months, President Obama’s immaturity & inexperience is showing…again. President Obama is out in the deep ocean without a lifeboat as the predator fish circle underneath the waves….

Aug 25, 2009 - 12:24 pm 32. Samizdat:

Where are the preening trollkins to defend their precious Attorney General and his boss? Where is the ussual tut- tuting and high dudgeon? Can’t we have some Churchian prattel about rule of law, some indignation at the CIA’s flaunting? Come now, can’t we all agree that the game will be played by Marquis of Queensbery sensibilities and that it’s all Bush’s Fault?

Aug 25, 2009 - 12:25 pm 33. Delia:

13. goy:

“I’m making popcorn. Who wants butter?”

Can I have mine with hydrogenated coconut oil pretty please? Oh and a large Vat-O-Soda (nickel difference)! I might as well live it up before 0bamacare kicks in.

Aug 25, 2009 - 12:27 pm 34. Blackwell:

Anon at 18:

Oh that is sooo right and informed: What a shame we didn’t have Mr. Holder around to expose and indict the people that evaded the Neutrality Act before WWII to help the Brits.

Remember! There is no difference between the CIA defending the US and the brave ones that slit the throats of airline stewardesses.

Seriously, you are so erudite! The fashionable intellectuals who knew there was no difference between Britain’s “oppression” of India and Nazi germany’s invasion of Poland have nothing on you.

PS: Does your vote really count as much as mine? Aren’t you a little bit ashamed to talk in public?

Aug 25, 2009 - 12:28 pm 35. inspectorudy:

If this sh*t doesn’t bring back memories of the Jack Nicholson movie “A Few Good Men” then nothing will. “You can’t handle the truth”. That describes Obama and his lackey Holder and all that side with them. Lets not prosecute Black Panther thugs who tried to repel voters. Instead, lets go after brave patriots who saved many lives doing their dirty work. It is a rotten job but with the safety of our nation at risk no deed is too severe. For Gods sake, let it lie!

Aug 25, 2009 - 12:39 pm 36. BC:

I’m of mixed mind about what to do about the CIA. For decades they covertly did terrible things for presidents, especially under Reagan and Bush I in regards to Central America. Clinton ended most if all of the nastier stuff by the mid-90’s, but not without some stubborn resistance by the CIA. Obviously, when Bush II got into office, the CIA quickly returned to its old ways.

So there no doubt that the CIA did a lot of bad, bad stuff, and they can’t use the “just following orders” excuse any more than their victims, who no doubt many times tried to. On the other hand, they are a covert spy agency supposedly, and hopefully, involved in other things besides torture and funding & training death squads, most especially involving legitimate national security matters.

Should there be a thorough investigation of the CIA’s nastier practices? Yes — bad behavior by government people should always be investigated. Should agents involved in overtly bad behavior be punished? Yes — the “just following orders” excuse has been long held to be no excuse. And how is anyone, especially the CIA given its history, suppose to understand what are the real boundaries without there being consequences when they are crossed? Should all this be done in public? That’s the tough one — I would say no because it essentially falls into the category of a nation’s dirty laundry: it’s best dealt with and cleaned up internally, quietly and effectively.

Aug 25, 2009 - 12:43 pm 37. goy:

@33. Delia: – I might as well live it up before 0bamacare kicks in.

Well, if that’s what you’re into, I’ll break out the Valu-Rite!

Aug 25, 2009 - 12:44 pm 38. Samizdat:

Arhooley,

Definitely no. The CIA gathers intel in places where the military is not operating. The FBI is charged with collection within our borders. The CIA is uniquely situated for intelligence collection and analysis of international data.

Aug 25, 2009 - 12:52 pm 39. jimpres:

Put the Green Czar in charge, Van Jones, he is an avowed communist who has the Presidents ear.

Aug 25, 2009 - 12:57 pm 40. joe buzz:

Is this Eric Holder the same Eric Holder that had a hand in Clinton’s rendition policy? I guess the interrogations in those overseas locations were all peaches and cream. Someone should look into what he knew then….oh snap dang…. that hard drive is missing from the archives….

Aug 25, 2009 - 12:59 pm 41. Paul A'Barge:

With all due respect sir, given the behavior of the CIA during the GWB years and the perfidy of the CIA in trying to sabotage the GWB administration, I personally feel the CIA
(1) deserves all the body slam it is receiving
(2) needs to be disbanded and reformed
(3) failed America on 9-11 and during the run up to the Iraq war

Sorry. The CIA is a nest of incompetence and venality. It needs to be dumped and we need to start over.

Aug 25, 2009 - 1:03 pm 42. adam:

This should be a big political winner for conservatives and there are so many ways to play it. As some here have mentioned, eviscerating the CIA night help to wipe out a nest of Leftists. More important, in prosecuting real (un-Plame-like) agents who treated terrorists roughly in order to protect American lives will be the most unpopular thing imaginable for the Obama administration. They will have 85% of americans against them–everyone but the far-Left base whom Obama is trying to appease for his vacillations on health care reform. There will be many Oliie North moments, with prosecutors and Democratic politicians looking like venal fools in contrast to the people who actually had to make the decisions on the ground (decisions which, of course, not a single Democrat complained about at the time). This will be a splendid spectacle, with many Youtube classics emerging. Finally, the CIA probably should be shut, and intelligence should be handled by the various wings of the military that actually rely upon it–the CIA has been the most overrated institution (both by those who love it an those who hate it) for a long time.

Aug 25, 2009 - 1:06 pm 43. billslayer:

BC:Please Google PPD 39. And actually read before you come back with some cheezy post colonial studies poop.

Aug 25, 2009 - 1:08 pm 44. Dave D.:

..Leon, ol’ buddy. Do what you can, do what you must, do what you’re gonna do, but Leon…stay the hell out of canoes the rest of your life.

Aug 25, 2009 - 1:10 pm 45. Dan Tana:

A major attack will occur on US interests overseas, then another and , as usual, the hand wringing will begin and questions of “why oh why” are our intelligence services so ineffective and then politicians will point fingers and demand increases in intelligence spending….blah, blah, blah…

and the beat goes on.

Aug 25, 2009 - 1:10 pm 46. Les Nessman:

” Sources now suggest that Mr. Panetta regrets his actions. ”

Uh-huh. Sure he does.

” To his credit, Panetta has fought some battles for his agency. ABC News reports the DCI erupted into a tirade during a White House meeting that apparently laid out plans for Holder’s investigation. Sources tell ABC that Panetta also threatened to resign, although a CIA spokesman denies those claims. ”

Pure political theater. It’s just CYA so Panetta won’t be hated too much by his employees.

Obama, Holder and Panetta are on the same page with this. They just don’t want to appear to be on the same page.

Aug 25, 2009 - 1:18 pm 47. Rocker:

Reading the news about our leadership and our government these days, Gibbons’ “Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire” keeps coming unbidden to mind. Try as I might, I can’t shake it…

Aug 25, 2009 - 1:29 pm 48. keithacita:

parallel president john fitzgerald kerry would be perfect for this slot. he doesn’t have enough on his plate and would love to defang our security apparatus further. he’s also a senator as well as the only retired military officer to still be involved with active duty secret ops out of cambodia and pakistan, earning multiple battlestars on a consistent basis. all that said his unique qualification is as quarterback of the impromptu touch football games with his staff so reminiscent of jfkone.

Aug 25, 2009 - 1:35 pm 49. Subotai Bahadur:

I am not, nor have I ever been part of the Intelligence Community. I have no direct experience or knowledge of conditions there. So take this with whatever amount of salt you want.

One of the greatest mistakes made by ‘W’ was to fail to replace those appointees who “serve at the pleasure of the president” in the CIA and State with people whose loyalty was to, if not the country, at least to his conception of the nature of world power. Instead, they were loyal only to the Democratic Party and the Left.

I will take great pleasure in seeing them in the dock in any show trial, if they are thrown under the bus. However, I do know that it will be the loyal and hard working defenders of the country who will bear the brunt of that sin of commission.

It is only anecdotal evidence of the morale; but it happens that two of the friends of my children both work(ed) for the Company. One was an honors graduate of MIT, who was asked to join. One graduated from another college and applied. Both were influenced by 9/11. I have no idea what they did/do, other than they are not field agents. I was given to understand that they were well regarded in their evaluations.

The MIT graduate left a couple of months ago to pursue another advanced degree. The other is feeling burnt out. I think he will leave within a year. It may just be burnout for both, but my feeling from knowing them is that they are less than enamored by the “leadership” they are/were subjected to.

This is not going to end well.

Subotai Bahadur

Aug 25, 2009 - 1:36 pm 50. "progressivewatch":

When this country suffers terrorist attacks,Ofonda will found a domestic security force “to protect us.”

Aug 25, 2009 - 2:28 pm 51. Rose Ann:

I am thinking that the CIA is really no longer relative to the ultimate safety of our country. The politization goes even further than the Bush Years. So, if we, as a country, send the CIA to the grave yard (which it may belong there) what is to happen? Many people on this blog reference Ann Rand’s philosophy regrding objectivism, of which I am a believer. If the CIA as we know it disolves, then what will take it’s place? Something far more secretative (very scary) — or something far more worthy of looking after America’s safety…. and not some corrupt administration like B Obama.

Outside of the interrogation memos, we have a lot in this country to think about.

How secretive will be become… to average citizen’s detriment. What is going to replace the CIA????

Aug 25, 2009 - 2:43 pm 52. Still Bill:

I have mixed emotions about what is happening to the CIA under Obama and Holder. The CIA for years did everything they could to undermine the Bush administration with leaks and lies to rags like the New York Times and the Washington Post. Look no further than the CIA paper shuffler Valerie Plame and her low-life liar husband Joe Wilson. So what goes around comes around, and the country is now paying the price for it. Our national security has been compromised by the Manchurian candidate and his “Black Panther” supporting AG, and the American people I fear are going to pay a very heavy price. When I think about people in the CIA, I think about people like Johnny Spann and the countless others whose names we will never know. I certainly don’t think about Valerie Plame and the bum she is married too.

Aug 25, 2009 - 2:44 pm 53. genghis:

GOY:

???? What does this mean? And as for the ‘real tragedy’…that would be the industrialization of the race scam. but, you are correct. This bullshit is effectively creating ‘racists’, or at least turning a page.

Aug 25, 2009 - 2:54 pm 54. BOB:

Elections have consequences.

We are seeing (again) why in the past 40 years Americans more often choose GOP candidates over Democrats as POTUS. Nixon vs Humphrey/McGovern, Reagan vs Carter/Mondale, Bush 1 vs. Dukakis, Bush 2 vs. Gore/Kerry.

Americans only choose Democrats to remind themselves how they can screw things if they don’t pay attention. Think Carter vs Ford. Clinton vs Dole. (Let’s face it, Clinton beat Bush 1 because Perot stripped away angry “read my lips” conservatives. Clinton NEVER received more than 49% of the popular vote.)

Now we had BO vs McCain. Again, we needed to trip over our own feet to remind us to do the right thing next time. Don’t fret boys & girls, 2012 is just around the corner and the Republic has withstood more than this.

As for the fate of the CIA, let’s leave it that no large Washington bureaucracy ever really goes away…

Aug 25, 2009 - 3:03 pm 55. Aaron:

I have no idea what being the wrong man for the wrong job means. no really, what does that sentence mean? Can someone be the right man for the wrong job?

Aug 25, 2009 - 3:04 pm 56. BC:

To billslayer: that was an especially dopey response: that declassified document has nothing to do with not just anything I posted, but to the article itself. It’s just a general outline of US on terrorism, and it certainly does squat in supporting your “cheezy post colonial studies poop” babbletalk.

But did you yourself actually read it? Especially the bit under “3. Responding to Terrorism”? It goes: “We shall have the ability to respond rapidly and decisively to terrorism directed against us wherever it occurs, to protect Americans, arrest or defeat the perpetrators, respond with all appropriate instruments against the sponsoring organizations and governments and provide recovery relief to victims, as permitted by law.”

I think the key phrases there are “appropriate instruments” and “permitted by law”. Both of which apparently Bush and the CIA didn’t think applied to them.

And to Subotai Bahadur: as far I’m concerned, and given what I’ve gathered, Obama should just bite the bullet and ask for the resignation of, or fire outright, any high level manager or commander in any covert service where Bush, Cheney or any of their people were directly involved in the hiring process. Piles of incompetent and likely corrupt personnel — imagine lots and lots of Michael Brown’s — in key positions is one of the bigger unseen messes the Bush administration left behind.

Aug 25, 2009 - 3:05 pm 57. Wil:

I have very mixed feelings about this. First, criminally charging low-level CIA personnel years after the fact, primarily because a new administration is in power, will permanently devastate the CIA. Who would want a job wherein doing your normal daily tasks will put you in federal prison (possibly for the rest of your life) as soon as the next president is elected? There is not the slightest doubt that Obama and his people want to permanently decimate the CIA. They’ll think about who is going to defend America later (if anybody).

On the other hand, it would be nice to see some justice for all of the dishonest, petty, viscious, profoundly cowardly, treasonous BS that liberals in the CIA have done to all recent Republican administrations. It would be nice to see them be treated at least half as dishonestly and visciously as they have treated other Americans.

Aug 25, 2009 - 3:14 pm 58. Paul M Hupf:

The Attorney General of the United States has appointed a special prosecutor to investigate actions of members of the CIA to see whether they did something wrong in the past, i.e. during the administration of President Bush. I emphasize the word “whether”. However, the same Attorney General has closed his file on the conduct of various persons who openly intimidated voters about to enter into polling places in last fall’s election. The President remains silent, a sign of tacit approval of what the Attorney General is doing. Increasingly the evidence is that the incumbent President lacks goood judgment, integrity or worse yet that he is not in command; his appointees seemingly act independently of him, particularly the appointees who are known to have grievances against anyone who is not black.

Aug 25, 2009 - 3:31 pm 59. Jim Baker:

Leon Panetta just says what he is told to say and makes a very nice income from the few remaining taxpayers for his trouble. This is how all Social Democrats act. They are completely corrupt and they have been for my whole lifetime. CIA moral has always been low because they amount to nothing more than a bunch of back stabbing bureaucrats. That is just like the ones who will run our Dear Leader’s national health care bureaucracy. What is ever new in Washington? I can’t believe that our country wants more of this, but here we all are, eh.

Aug 25, 2009 - 3:40 pm 60. Bohemond:

BC: “For decades they covertly did terrible things for presidents, especially under Reagan and Bush I in regards to Central America. Clinton ended most if all of the nastier stuff by the mid-90’s,”

Oh, do learn some history before you spout. The CIA was eviscerated and stripped of its old Dulles-era Ops boys in the 70’s, by the Church Committee and Jimmy Carter/Stansfield Turner.

Clinton happily employed some of the nastier stuff, like renditions to Egypt.

Of course, the “nasty stuff” in Latin America your freshman American Oppression 101 prof is always on about consists of a bungled invasion of Cuba plus some blown hits on Castro, getting out in front of a coup in Chile and pretending to lead it, and running a fairly effective effort to rally Nicaraguan resistance to the Sandinista tyranny. Don’t try to bring up Guatemala- our spooks were not involved (being too busy at the time with a failed operation in Iran, which the monarchist Army snatched from the jaws of defeat).

Aug 25, 2009 - 3:42 pm 61. SukieTawdry:

I think they’re expecting this to play out like Abu Ghraib. I think they’ll end up wishing they’d stuck a hot poker up their behinds.

The people who dedicate their lives (and put them on the line) to serving and protecting the public rise in my estimation every day. Just as the people who call themselves public servants but dedicate their lives to serving their own agendas and egos fall.

Aug 25, 2009 - 3:42 pm 62. macko:

Doesn’t anybody think that all this bunk might have something to do with pelosi’s “they lie to us all the time”….?

Beside’s we now have a ctizen army why not a citizen CIA. Subbing out to spooks is nothing new.

The only bad things the CIA does is conter this administrations KGB cousins.

Aug 25, 2009 - 4:02 pm 63. Gracie:

When we start going back on administrations we start the road to the “banana republic” Obama wants us to be.

I do NOT believe that Obama is in control of his administration. who ever IS in command..control… WANTS to discredit and destroy the CIA, FBI etcetcetc…

If you are not black in this administration you are not viable… those of you that voted for this unqualified socialist to be our President, well, I can’t put my opinion into words..becasue the only words that come into mind are filthy and dripping with poop…I can’t even be nice about it.

He and his friends are are trying to dismantle the United Sates of America

Aug 25, 2009 - 4:02 pm 64. elissa:

For those history nuts who might be interested in a book which covers the circumstances around the birth of the CIA and its earlier intelligence forerunner— may I suggest a book written in the late 70’s by Leonard Mosely simply titled “Dulles”. It is also an interesting biography of the powerful Dulles family, Allen, John Foster, and their sister who was quite accomplished and politically active in her own right. I have loaned this book out to so many friends that it has become almost ragged. There is quite a lot which can be intuited and understood about today’s CIA situation and struggles from knowing the CIA’s past.

Aug 25, 2009 - 4:27 pm 65. Still Bill:

To the men and women who work at the CIA: I want to thank you for everything you have done to protect the American people. I served for a a few years in the Army, but I wasn’t a hero. You are. I hope everyone in the Agency has figured out by now who is on their side. It’s not the Black Panther Democrat Eric Holder or the communist Democrat Barack Obama.
PS: Delete the last o in my comment about Joe Wilson at #52. Chalk it up to Tennessee “sippin” whiskey. But he’s still a low-life bum.

Aug 25, 2009 - 4:55 pm 66. Anonymous:

A “profanity-laced screaming match” at the White House involving CIA Director Leon Panetta, and the expected release today of another damning internal investigation, has administration officials worrying about the direction of its newly-appoint intelligence team, current and former senior intelligence officials tell ABC News.com.
Amid reports that Panetta had threatened to quit.

They say Panetta can cuss like a wounded sailor.

And.. If this is true-

I appreciate Panetta calling these Ass@oles exactly what they are and more.

Aug 25, 2009 - 4:58 pm 67. Nobama 2012:

A “profanity-laced screaming match” at the White House involving CIA Director Leon Panetta, and the expected release today of another damning internal investigation, has administration officials worrying about the direction of its newly-appoint intelligence team, current and former senior intelligence officials tell ABC News.com.
Amid reports that Panetta had threatened to quit.

They say Panetta can cuss like a wounded sailor.

And.. If this is true-

I appreciate Panetta calling these Ass@oles exactly what they are and more.

Aug 25, 2009 - 4:58 pm 68. Samizdat:

Rose Ann @ 51,

As you don’t appear to be the ussual trollkin I take you at your word regarding replacing the CIA. As an institution, it has suffered it’s share of misfortune; it is in a very tough business. I too have a certain amount of objectivist respect. However, tearing the CIA apart would strip out our intelligence capabilities at the least opportune time in the history of this planet.

What needs to happen, for the protection of all US citizens and the Western world, is the CIA needs to have it’s powers restored and gloves taken off. I don’t advocate that we pull finger nails, but I expect, given the predilictions of our enemies, a very robust and agressive intelligence gathering community that operates in a semi restrained fashion pursuant to international law and doesn’t worry about prosecution by the Justice Department unless it operates improperly inside the USofA or commits obvious torture.

I expect the trollkins to have kittens over my assessment of Reale Politic. They will have their 1st Amendment rights protected by the CIA they condemn and villify. Go study your opponent and it’s tactics before you run your mouth.

Aug 25, 2009 - 5:00 pm 69. Ruebacca:

The CIA has been a political football for a long time. It wants this role and desrves this role. The CIA can be the boggie man for the left wile the real job can be done else ware.

Ohh was it Valery Plan who lied to Pelosi? Just taking a wild guess.

Aug 25, 2009 - 5:00 pm 70. Ruebacca:

“18. Anonymous:

Uncovering CIA wrongdoing hurts us all. We won’t be able to good little Germans and claim, “I didn’t know!””

So water boarding 3 mass murders equals gassing 9.5 million (5.5 million Jews) people.

My soul is purfectly comfortable with waterboarding al queds operational officers. Speaking mean to them is also fine with me.

Aug 25, 2009 - 5:06 pm 71. dougf:

I must say that this is a tough situation upon which to appear profound.

The CIA has proved itself to be monumentally incompetent at both predicting and preventing developing problems. And during the Bush years you could count on a leak a week if that served to politically harm the administration. I’m normally all in favor of anything that would essentially dismantle the monster and rebuild it as a USEFUL format.

That said — look at who is doing the dismantling. It’s a sad day when the security of the Nation is dependent upon such men as Holder and Obama. The CIA debacle is just the tip of the iceberg.
If this kick at the CIA is an attempt to divert attention from the crumbling economy — it will fail. Not only will the economy still be the PROBLEM but now Obama has resurrected the old fear about Democrat weakness on Defense.

I have felt for months now that Obama is in fact just about done as an effective President. I don’t think he can or will recover and frankly that is probably a very good thing. He will in all probability duplicate the Carter Administration in all its glory.

Four and Out. It’s just a matter of time.

Aug 25, 2009 - 5:09 pm 72. Nobama 2012:

sorry for the double comment-

but I hope he stays and cusses them some more.

Aug 25, 2009 - 5:17 pm 73. Anonymous:

The “left” who want to destroy the CIA are not “liberal” at all. The term “liberal” is being used as a synonym for “socialist” and “communist.” John Stuart Mill was a liberal – these people are not.

Aug 25, 2009 - 5:28 pm 74. noreen:

When it gets too hot in the kitchen for Obama and there have been no celebrity deaths he turns to his old standbys. Cheney and the CIA. Nobody cares Mr. President. We only care about your undisguised attempts to destroy our country. Our attention will not be diverted. You are the one who disregards the laws of the land and the Constitution. Maybe we can throw you and your ilk in the gulag on 1/2013. Something to look forward to you miserable sorry excuse for a president

Aug 25, 2009 - 5:55 pm 75. AThinkingPerson:

I must say, Obama has already alienated the liberals by backing off on his health care insanity and he alienated the conservatives by spending money our children haven’t even made yet and now he’s going to alienate the moderates who want to move forward like Obama promised during the election.

That Obama is a genius isn’t he? Has he already given up hope for a second term or what? Whatever the reason for his CIA witch hunt, if America is attacked again, Obama’s routing of the intelligence community will be seen as THE cause. Welcome to your legacy Obama.

The Obama administration death spiral continues. I’m with the poster earlier who said “pass the popcorn”.

Aug 25, 2009 - 5:58 pm 76. Now and Then:

Conservatives, you’re hilarious. First you say we don’t torture, then we find out we do and you say it doesn’t matter. You say the CIA doesn’t lie to Congress, then we find out they do and you say it doesn’t matter. You say Palin’s most important asset is her executive experience as governor then she quits and you say it doesn’t matter.

You know all this caterwalling you folks are doing right now, about healthcare and the economy and abortion – it doesn’t matter.

Aug 25, 2009 - 5:59 pm 77. elissa:

This comment may be a little OT from the CIA but is in direct response to #71 dougf’s last paragraph above. I believe Obama will not run for a second term. I think he was in love with the idea of being president but is, in fact, not enjoying himself very much at all now that he has actual responsibilities. Yes, the perks and ceremony are cool– but the governing part is very hard. Tough decisions must be made although often only bad choices are available (remember he is used to voting “present”). He can no longer placate everyone with slogans and vague bromides–and even his supporters are howling. The media is starting to do its job and therefore his vaunted communications “skills” and reputation for competence have been brought down to earth. The unlimited play money he was planning on using is going to be affected by the deficit numbers. And all of this is playing out against the personality backdrop that BO is an unusually thin skinned man.

Throughout his life he has always looked ahead to his next “gig” instead of taking his existing gig seriously. Barack will be much happier traveling the world with his teleprompter as an ex-US President and writing books. And I think he already realizes it.

Aug 25, 2009 - 6:13 pm 78. AThinkingPerson:

Re #76 Now and Then: “First you say we don’t torture, then we find out we do”

We do what? Torture? Gee, did we cut off their heads a la Daniel Pearl?

Did we poison them? Die we pull out their fingernails? Did we put them in a shark tank? Did we put sticks up their behinds? Did we cane them? Did we keel haul them? Did we spit on them? Did we starve them? Did we gouge out their eyeballs? Did we fly airplanes into their buildings and burn alive 2,000 of their countrymen?

Nope, we sure threatened to though didn’t we? BIG DIFFERENCE. As a liberal though you’ve been trained to assume the worst about your military and your country so your opinion isn’t surprising.

Aug 25, 2009 - 6:51 pm 79. gracie:

If it saves one American life…torture the enemy dirtbgs!!! Conservative, liberals be darned!!! I would be happy to help…

Aug 25, 2009 - 6:52 pm 80. jack:

Lets see # 76

Its ok to abort a 8 month fetus but its not ok to pretend to shoot someone in the other room.

We dont think its torture. PERIOD!

I have no problem with what they did.

Most americans feel exactly the way I do (both Republicans and Democrats)

Dont spank your kids, give the minority a little help, lets help everyone, you dont want to work – thats ok, we will help you. 200 years of slavery we need to right this.

CRY ME A RIVER, BUILD ME A BRIDGE AND GET OVER IT!

Quit being such pansies, Grow some!

As for Palin. She sees how screwed up your agendas are. Being Governor means nothing if we follow the path were on. She truely understands she will have more power outside of her state. She left it a better state than it was.

MAYBE YOU ARE JUST SEXIST! I’LL THROW THAT OUT LIKE YOU DUMB LIBERALS THROW OUT THE RACIST WORD.

By the way ,can I still get into your inadaquacy of the male reproductive organ class. I am doing a paper on Democrats.

Aug 25, 2009 - 6:53 pm 81. AThinkingPerson:

Obama seems to have many “Waterloo”s. I thought his health care debaucle was a doosy but this, well, this travesty is just about going to be the pinnacle of his mountain of bad decisions.

I used to be surprised at his lack Presidential skills. Why am I not anymore? Isn’t that sad?

Who knew Obama could make Cheney look good? It gets better everyday.

Aug 25, 2009 - 6:56 pm 82. billslayer:

BC-Tedious and and cheap dodge, but thank you for you solicitation! Maybe READING the part of the wikipedia article that redirected you to blacked out document would be illuminating, douche. Yes, it proves that you are either uninformed or your moral holding forth only appears in the presence of the opposite party holding office.

Aug 25, 2009 - 7:07 pm 83. Samizdat:

In an opinion piece about the voluntary neutering of the CIA by our current administration a “contributor” injects Sarah Palin into the conversation.

Sarah Palin is the former governor of the State of Alaska. She has never been involved with the CIA, other than probable briefings during her association with the illfated McCain Campaign which offerd a study of just how weak a candidate the the Republican Party was capable of nominating. During his candidacy, Palin outmaneuvered and outwitted the “expert” in foriegn affairs Joe Biden in a vice presidential debate. In a discussion of the CIA’s efficacy, “contributor” brings up Sarah Palin.

This woman must be one hell of a threat to the existence of ideological leftism for her to be injected into a discussion about the willful castration of the CIA. Given the dozens of Republican experts in international relations, who pontificate daily, it is laughable to bring up Palin.

Think about what your inclusion says about your understanding of the post’s topic of discussion. Do you seriously think you appear credible?

Aug 25, 2009 - 7:09 pm 84. jack:

Obama every day shows how book smart doesnt really mean life smart.

But I bet you he would do great on the game show Jeapordy.

Alex, can I have “How to screw up America for a thousand.”

Aug 25, 2009 - 7:11 pm 85. AThinkingPerson:

Do liberals hate it when you prove them wrong? I sure hope so.

The MSM (gulp) is finding that (gasp) the “torture” might have been effective. OH THE HORROR!

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-baker/2009/08/25/abc-nbc-resist-vindicating-cheney-hayes-finds-proof-eits-effective

Aug 25, 2009 - 7:19 pm 86. Samizdat:

Visit Politico and read Ben Smith’s interview of Peter King about the misguided delusion that must possess the President and General Holder to think that this prosecution is in any way good for our nation, or the Western world.

Little minded trollkins, can you imagine FDR doing this? How about Truman or Kennedy? Do you have a clue that this could seriously damage your party permanently?

What if there is another attack on our nation and it turns out that it could have been prevented by a more robust reaction by the CIA? Are you willing to be complicit in the deaths of your fellow citizens? What if the attack were to occur at a synogogue, where 70% of the congregation votes for the Democrat candidate? What if the attack wipes out a government building filled with SEIU members? What if the attack is similar to Beslan and several hundred students and union teachers are murdered? Are you prepared to sacrifice our intelligence capability in light of these possibilities?

I am sickened by the possibility of any of the above being attacked, for they are all innocent Americans. I KNOW FDR, Truman, and Kennedy would act to prevent such destruction. What is wrong with this President and his Attorney General that they have difficulty seeing their first Constitutional responsibiltiy as executives, to “protect us from enemies foriegn…” and that the principal tool to be employed is the CIA, the institution they are bent on punishing? Can you see that Leon Panetta is infinitely more moral when he engages in a profanity laden tirade to head off the investigation?

I know you can’t see it; your too far from it in your ivory tower.

Aug 25, 2009 - 8:11 pm 87. Boots:

After the terror attacks of 9/11, the country rallied around GWB, and I recall hearing that Al Gore & Clinton were SO upset that such a catastrophe had happened on GWB’s watch and not theirs. Perhaps this is a two-fer in BHO’s mind, he gets to destroy part of our security apparatus now (and play to his lefty base) and if/when another attack occurs he’s deluding himself into thinking the country will rally around him.

Aug 25, 2009 - 8:37 pm 88. Dave II:

#28 billslayer-

I agree, glad you brought it up! This is timed perfectly to get the focus off the healthcare debate…and throw his base supportters on the left a “bone” with whom he is creating LOADS of disappointment as fast he is with the rest of the political spectrum.

Of course, it harms the country!! Just like EVERYTHING he’s stuck his socialist nose into…
including the Cash-for-Clunkers fiasco!

I’m beginning to think we will look back on Jimmy Carter as the “good ol’ days”!!!!

Aug 25, 2009 - 9:49 pm 89. Crusader:

It’s like I’ve thought for years after 9/11 – nothing will wake up the American people except a mile sized hole in downtown NY. Believe me, in a country this size nothing short of getting nuked will wake up this nation of sheeple.

Aug 25, 2009 - 9:54 pm 90. Crusader:

Basically America is not a serious nation. A serious nation would understand it’s at war with Islamic theocracy and act accordingly. We are fat, dumb and oblivious. So we plays games like destroy the CIA, destroy the military, prosecute anyone who would fight the Islamonazis because “torture is always wrong”. Believe me, after one of those “24″ scenarios actually happen – we won’t be hearing too much from the “torture is always wrong” crowd anymore. They better not even show their faces in public.

Aug 25, 2009 - 9:58 pm 91. BC:

To Bohemond: not a big believer of clicking on links are you? You might want to try it sometime — you might learn something.

To billslayer: Now, now — I found the document without Wikipedia (the advantage of actually knowing how to use a search engine), and again it doesn’t appear to have any relevance. What can I say: you say “dodge,” I say “gotcha.”

Aug 25, 2009 - 10:54 pm 92. Fred Phillips:

AThinkingPerson:”We do what? Torture? Gee, did we cut off their heads a la Daniel Pearl?

Did we poison them? Die we pull out their fingernails? Did we put them in a shark tank? Did we put sticks up their behinds? Did we cane them? Did we keel haul them? Did we spit on them? Did we starve them? Did we gouge out their eyeballs? Did we fly airplanes into their buildings and burn alive 2,000 of their countrymen?

Nope, we sure threatened to though didn’t we? BIG DIFFERENCE. As a liberal though you’ve been trained to assume the worst about your military and your country so your opinion isn’t surprising.”

We did shove sticks up their ass. We also killed quite a lot of them. People were killed while in custody in Iraq. Tough enough for ya? How about suspending people form their arms until their shoulders dislocated? OK with you? How about putting them in small boxes and covering them with insects? Threatening to harm children? Even if these things weren’t illegal, aren’t they immoral? Maybe you don’t care whether the CIA does things that are illegal and/or immoral, I don’t know.

Is there anything the CIA could do that would not be tolerable to you? Anything at all? Because if KILLING PEOPLE who are in US custody is acceptable to you, then just come right out and admit you are happy with complete lawlessness so long as whatever gets done is done with good intentions and with the intention of protecting the USA.

And what’s with “assuming the worst”? The “worst” is all a matter of public record. No assumptions required. Read about it for yourself.

Aug 25, 2009 - 11:09 pm 93. carla:

Oh that Panetta. I thought this article was about those fried sandwiches. Sorry for the confusion.

Aug 26, 2009 - 2:38 am 94. Guido:

Carla: thats a PANINI, sweety. A panetta is a tropical fruit, I think.

Aug 26, 2009 - 5:18 am 95. mingo:

Attn Fred Phillips: Which methods are you having trouble with? Locking them in a room with Pelosi/Reid/Frank for a long weekend might be even more effective, but that would fall under the category of torture. Feteke is the approach taht works.

Aug 26, 2009 - 6:18 am 96. Koblog:

Every totalitarian has his secret police. Obama needs his version of the KGB.

To do this, he needs to drive out true professionals and replace them with the equivalent of billy club bearing Black Panthers who will do his bidding.

Morale low at the CIA? Good people leaving? That’s good for Obama.

He wants MORE Valerie Plames willing to do his political bidding and fewer men and women willing to give their all for the US.

Aug 26, 2009 - 6:55 am 97. davod:

“Poor CIA people. They spent years doing everything possible to undermine Bush. Now, they are getting the result that anyone with half a brain would have seen coming.”

Don’t be simplistic. The people being crucified are those who did the work. The purge will only reinforce the positions of the leaking ratbags.

What could go wrong with centralizing interrogation under the White House. After all, the White House has already centralized most other government functions with tsars. All we need now is a centralized internal volunteer defence force working directly to the White House and we would look like any number of third world states.

Aug 26, 2009 - 7:17 am 98. Simon:

GUIDO, you are an idiot. There is no such thing as a tropical fruit named panetta. Panetta is Italian bacon. Or it could be a soft cheese. But it is definetly not a fruit. If you don’t know, you shouldn’t speak. It just confuses people.

Aug 26, 2009 - 7:44 am 99. bruce:

SIMON: Are you just BSing or what? What do you mean ‘its Italian bacon or a soft cheese’? Are you a moron? Ever heard of a dictionary? A panetta is a skilet used to make fritatas. Try doing a little research before you offer an opinion. And what the hell does any of this have to do with the CIA?

Aug 26, 2009 - 7:57 am 100. Lifeofthemind:

Crusader,
we won’t be hearing too much from the “torture is always wrong” crowd anymore

Unfortunately you are wrong. The Left shut up for exactly three weeks after 9-11. Bill Maher opened his mouth to preen and be snarky and got slapped down but he kept his job. After three weeks they rallied in October and Soros provided the seed money to use ANSWER to organize the opposition to President Bush. If you want to trace the recovery of the Left Establishment just go to http://www.charlierose.com, click on “view full schedule” and then go back to September and October of 2001.

The people at the CIA know they are playing for keeps. They should get all the documentation they can on Obama out to the public. Wonder if they have a copy of the Rashid Khalidi party video the LA Times sat on before the election?

Aug 26, 2009 - 8:02 am 101. Jim Rockford:

I do feel sorry for the interrogators who were only doing their jobs and it was the right thing to do. But I have no sympathy for Panetta or the CIA as a whole. Whether Panetta stays or goes, no matter who replaces him, the CIA will remain an ineffective, politically leftist bureaucracy.

Their accomplishments [sic] are pathetic: surprised by the USSR collapse, totally missing 9/11, and their faulty WMD intelligence is largely responsible for our getting into Iraq when we didn’t have to.

Read Ishmael Jones’s excellent book The Human Factor: Inside the CIA’s dysfunctional Intelligence Culture
Michael Ledeen reviews: “Jones shows that the CIA is not doing its basic job, penetrating our enemies’ organizations and getting their people to work with us. One of The Human Factor’s most surprising revelations is that, despite all the hue and cry about the need for more and better human intelligence, despite the billions of dollars that have been poured into this project, we don’t have any more case officers today than we did back when. So where did all the money go? It went to create a domestic empire right here in the United States.

The saddest of the sad stories is the one about 9/11. Jones tells us that the mandarins, reasonably enough, expected to be purged. Deep down, they knew they had earned the bureaucratic equivalent of a firing squad. But it didn’t happen. Some day we’ll perhaps be able to explain this colossal failure by George W. Bush.

Jones coldly writes the bottom line: “By March of 2002, the bureaucracy was certain that no heads would roll. It figured that its methods — avoidance of risk, creation of management layers — had been vindicated.” And it was right. Bush gave some glorious medal to George Tenet, who more properly should have been ridden out of town on a rail.

No wonder Ishmael Jones recommends that CIA be “broken up into its constituent parts, and those parts assigned to organizations that already have clear missions and defined chains of command.” Transfer all those domestic spooks to the Bureau; put all those spooks now pretending to be Foreign Service officers to work for the Foreign Service; and put the overseas case officers to work for the military. It’s a start.”

Aug 26, 2009 - 8:56 am 102. John "birther" Samford:

I don’t feel sorry for anyone in the CIA. That agency should have been scrapped 40 years ago. It was born out of a bureaucratic turf fight between Donovan and Hoover.
If Truman had the brains of a double dicked billy goat he would have gone with the Smith Plan, which he (Truman) solicited in the first place.
Under the Smith Plan, the CIA would have been two rooms in the White House basement with about 8 or so people. Those people would have answered directly to the President. Their only tasking would be co-ordination of the various agencies that would have taken over the jobs the CIA does now.
State would run spies, Library of Congress would do research and collating collected data. Army Rangers would get all the ‘hard’ or ‘wet’ jobs. No Green bennies or Seals or Delta Force back in ‘47, although Smith thought there would be a need for them. The DIA would gather the take from the various military intelligence units and forward it to the CIA. Not the CIA we have to day, but the original CIA as conceived by Congressman Smith.
This system would have prevented the excesses of the last 60 years, plus had the bonus of making infiltration impractical. The KGB has always had a number of agents inside the CIA, or at least that is an accepted fact among the other agencies. Under the Smith plan it wouldn’t matter, since the CIA would be less then a dozen people, which is an easy number to vet and watch. It’s not possible to vet and watch 30 or 40 thousand people.

Meanwhile, that defense of the lower level torturers is called the ‘good German’ defense because it was used by all those good Germans at the Nurnberg trials. Those good Germans were hung anyway.
It did establish a basic principal that ‘just following orders’ IS NOT a defense for crime.
ANY of those torturers could have said; “NO I won’t do this” and walked away to another job assignment. They didn’t and now they need to pay the price.

The point of this exercise is to put George and Dick in Jail. That will lead to a civil war. Since the Usurper seems to be doing everything within his power to destroy America, he might just WANT a civil war. I seriously doubt he will win, but I’m sure he thinks otherwise.

Aug 26, 2009 - 10:10 am 103. John "birther" Samford:

5. Anonymous:

Don’t get all overheated about this. Think of it as just another ‘Czar’. The Usurper is buzy making illegal appointments and raising his own army of brown shirts. You really don’t expect the right, home of Birchers, various Malita groups, and the NRA to sit around and do nothing.

A Civil war is coming. BOTH sides are preparing. Here is a clue for you; There are no neutrals in a civil war. You are either with us or against us. It matters not which ‘us’ is involved.
This won’t be a flag waving, bugle blowing, cannons blazing sort of war.
The upcoming civil war will be fought in the shadows. The knife in the back, the single rifle shot, the SFP IED will be the weapons used in the next American Civil war. I expect the right to do very well, even if the left is more suited for this sort of war.

Aug 26, 2009 - 10:35 am 104. John "birther" Samford:

Here is an article that says; “Nothing here Folks, move along now, nothing to see here”.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203706604574372741490792758.html

It is possible for this attempt to get Dick and George will backfire. I might be wrong but it seems to me the average man in the street ( woman too) is pretty much against terrorism and on board with the steps taken to stop them. Plus another terror attack is inevitable. The only reason there hasn’t been one is because of the good work of many many people. I don’t think this will remove the health care boondoggle from the public eye.

Aug 26, 2009 - 11:47 am 105. Duane Phinney:

“(1) deserves all the body slam it is receiving
(2) needs to be disbanded and reformed
(3) failed America on 9-11 and during the run up to the Iraq war”

Number 3 has to be the most disingenuous statement in these posts. It displays either total ignorance or trolling crap.
Pre 911 the CIA had been stripped of all powers by the leftists. They were not even allowed to talk to potential bad guys. The CIA and FBI were not allowed to share notes on bad guys and that’s just the beginning. The leftists have made sure that no Country will dare share info with the US as it cannot be trusted with it.
Holder called us cowards, well I call him an anti American piece of trash. Playing politics with the lives of men who risk their lives to keep us safe is not acceptable.
Holder and Clinton had prisoners sent to other Countries to be tortured, real torture not just hurt their feelings torture. Obamas going to run interrogations out of the WH now, makes me feel much safer.

Aug 26, 2009 - 1:19 pm 106. The Toad:

Lets see, now – the CIA is supposed to be really good a finding out the other guy’s secrets. Does our esteemed president really want to get into a urinating contest with these people? Particulary since he has spent a lot of time and money to keep almost every document in his life a secret, from college transcripts to student loan application forms to passport applications to medical records. So what is he going to gain by poking that hornets nest? Or maybe he is just stupid. Never mind!

Aug 26, 2009 - 1:46 pm 107. Kuntakata:

BRUCE: Guido is absolutely correct. Panetta is a soft cheese. Pancetta is Italian bacon. I never heard of a cooking utensil called pancetta. Porsche is coming out with a Panamerica. Could this be it?

Aug 26, 2009 - 2:37 pm 108. Genghis:

I don’t know what this cheese stuff has anything to do with anything. Cheese, bacon, frying pans, …what the
F**k are you talking about?????? FETEKE, FETEKE is the path to victory. do want to win or lose?????

Aug 26, 2009 - 3:02 pm 109. Trent Telenko:

Nate,
.
You may recall the instance years ago in which one of “spontaneous jihad” types in the Maryland area sat at an intersection leading to Langley until a car with a CIA officer going to work came by, killed him, and took off for Waziristan.
.
We now have photos of CIA intelligence officers involved with Gitmo interrogations of Al-Qaeda terrorists, and their families, with home addresses that are going up on lefty web sites thanks to the American Civil Liberties Union’s “John Adams Project.”
.
See:
.
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/08/26/aclus-spying-project-operation-cia-paparazzi/
.
and
.
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=335749201347962
.
From there it will make it to all the “spontaneous jihad” types in the Maryland/NVA area from the various Saudi funded Madras’s.
.
I expect these intelligence officers, and their families, will be subjected to additional “spontaneous jihad” attacks like that dead CIA officer.
.
Only it will include attacks on these people in their homes.
.
In the worse case, these CIA officer’s kids may be targeted on the way to or in school. Think in terms of a snatch-torture-murder, in the USA, of a CIA interrogation officer’s kid(s), complete with internet snuff video released before the body is found.
.
Holder & Obama’s failure to publically enforce laws which protect the community invites private violence to protect the community.
.
There are zero, zip, nada indications that Holder will enforce the criminal laws on intelligence officer identification confidentiality (See Valerie Plame) on the “John Adams Project” lawyers, prior to any attacks on intelligence personnel & their families that would head off subsequent right wing nut vigilante action.
.
AG Holder is far too busy placating the Leftie base of the Democratic Party with the CIA interrogation witch hunt those “John Adams Project” lawyers are leading.
.
That is the road to hell for an American version of the Spanish Civil War.

Aug 26, 2009 - 3:04 pm 110. goy:

@106. The Toad: – Does our esteemed president really want to get into a urinating contest with these people?

This would probably be why he’s playing “Good Cop – Bad Cop” on this with Holder.

I’m sure the people at the CIA – only some of the most intelligent people on the planet – are buying it.

Not.

.

Trent – your analysis is exactly right, IMHO. All part of the new-and-improved Brown Shirts dynamic being tested by our new national socialist overlords.

Aug 26, 2009 - 3:39 pm 111. Marc Malone:

Someone at the CIA with serious skillsets may just get cheesed off by this. Most would just quit, but someone may decide enough is enough. This could turn out very, very badly.

Aug 26, 2009 - 11:06 pm 112. bruce:

MARC: Did you mean skillets or skillsets? See, skillets would make sense, if, as I suggested, a panetta was a utensil for making fritatas, and not, as some dimwits have suggested tropical fruit, soft cheese or bacon. Are you sith me on this. This could be important. I don’t know how to work skillsets into this dialogue. Do you know Feteke?

Aug 27, 2009 - 5:16 am 113. bruce:

MARC: But you also mentioned ‘cheesed off’. So you think a panetta is a soft cheese? Am I misreading you here? But, but it fits. When you make a fritata in a skillet one of the components is cheese. But did you mean panetta as cheese or fry pan? Clearly not bacon or fruit, right?
I would definitely look into Feteke if you already haven’t.

Aug 27, 2009 - 5:39 am 114. Richard Saunders:

Fred Phillips: “We did shove sticks up their ass. We also killed quite a lot of them. People were killed while in custody in Iraq. Tough enough for ya? How about suspending people form their arms until their shoulders dislocated? OK with you? How about putting them in small boxes and covering them with insects? Threatening to harm children? Even if these things weren’t illegal, aren’t they immoral? Maybe you don’t care whether the CIA does things that are illegal and/or immoral, I don’t know.

“Is there anything the CIA could do that would not be tolerable to you? Anything at all? Because if KILLING PEOPLE who are in US custody is acceptable to you, then just come right out and admit you are happy with complete lawlessness so long as whatever gets done is done with good intentions and with the intention of protecting the USA.

“And what’s with “assuming the worst”? The “worst” is all a matter of public record. No assumptions required. Read about it for yourself.”

Well, Fred, if that’s all in the public record, there should be no problem for the special prosecutor to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. Just like there was not going to be a problem convicting Tom DeLay. BTW, haven’t heard anything about that in a long time. Wasn’t he indicted in 2005? How’s that working out, anyway, Fred? Bueller? Anyone?

Aug 27, 2009 - 9:44 pm 115. mingus:

RICHARD SAUNDERS:

I’ve thought over what you said. I’m for ‘complete lawlessness so long as whatever gets done is done with good intentions and with the intention of protecting the USA’.

Good job, Richard, good job. And thanks for the advice, poofy.

Aug 28, 2009 - 3:26 am 116. Richard Saunders:

Mingus: Was that supposed to be responsive to me or to Fred Phillips? Because the first three paragraphs, including the one you quoted from, were his.

Aug 28, 2009 - 2:05 pm