Pajamas Media

184 Comments

1. Scrubbing the News for Obama | The Anchoress:

[...] freedom for yourself. Start today. Jennifer Rubin says: Mr. President, turn back while there is still time. He [...]

Feb 20, 2009 - 10:56 am 2. wildman:

Please dear leader, continue your policies. i dont feel broke enough yet.

Feb 20, 2009 - 10:56 am 3. WestWright:

‘It may be that he adjusts course, puts the brakes on the bailouts, and provides some relief for beleaguered investors and businesses’…oh please, the tea leaves are obvious the clueless President has NO CLOTHES and NO IDEAS, wake up and smell the coffee. This is race to the bottom and that may be the real strategy we see playing out. The real question is who will pick up the pieces???

Feb 20, 2009 - 11:10 am 4. Jeff Perren:

It’s foolish to ask Obama to “turn back.” It’s contrary to his entire philosophy, adult career, and deepest raison d’etre.

Only an overwhelming protest directed at Congress will turn the ship of state away from its present disastrous course. That will likely only succeed after the disaster becomes much clearer to the general public, assuming they can be taught to ignore the excuse-parade that the media will become in another year.

Feb 20, 2009 - 11:11 am 5. jjkrn:

LMAO…turn it around….are you kidding….seriously ?….LMAO…he has been groomed for this his whole life…..buying more popcorn…this is one helluva movie..can’t wait for the riots…LMAO

Feb 20, 2009 - 11:29 am 6. RE:

I’m not sure that Obama desires a healthy, properous economy. He seems intent on destruction.

Feb 20, 2009 - 11:40 am 7. David Thomson:

Jennifer Rubin is wasting her breath. Barack Obama is too poorly educated to realize the extent of the damage he is causing to the American economy. He is an ignorant man who has done little serious reading throughout his entire life. Unfortunately, a number of guilt tripped white intellectuals like Charles Murray, John Podhoretz, and Newt Gingrich continue to delude themselves concerning Obama’s intellect. Their infantile desire to prove that “I’m not a racist” has allowed the Messiah the opportunity to further harm our country. Obama possesses a high I.Q. He just never gave a damn. Obama preferred to become a sophisticated race hustler. He is merely another Al Sharpton with a Harvard University credential behind his name.

Feb 20, 2009 - 11:46 am 8. Delia:

Well, the dribbling morons who voted for hope and change got the change and the hope went flying ‘bam! zoom!’ right under the bus. Congrats, idiots. Now you get to hear “Crisis! Crisis! Crisis!” ad nauseum. Ain’t it great? Don’tchya just feel lifted up?

My neighbor who is a retired school principal with a disabled, wheel-chair bound wife lost 100k so far in his retirement package. He’s devastated.

Nice work, Zero.

♪Barack is gonna change the worrrrrld♪♫

*GAG*

Feb 20, 2009 - 11:49 am 9. Meryl:

6.RE…I’m quite sure he does not want a healthy prosperous economy. What is it going to take before people starting taking him at face value?

If the economy got healthy prosperous it would undercut all of his favorite capitalism destroying policies.

He keeps on doing exactly what he told Joe the Plumber he was going to do. When actions match speech, it should tell us that he is speaking the truth about himself and his plans.

Let’s speed this thing up–speed up our comprehension and start responding to WHAT he is.

Meet at the old mill. We ride at dawn.

Feb 20, 2009 - 12:16 pm 10. fireyourguns:

And it’s only been a month! Does this guy realize that monopoly money isn’t real? This is nothing folks, wait until our income tax rates go to 50/60% to pay for his “visions”! But, 95% percent of us just got a tax cut, right? RIGHT!!! And now, they want to start charging us by the mile to drive our cars? Un”friggin”believable! I used to just be “intolerant” towards liberals, now I actually “despise” these despicable cretins!

Feb 20, 2009 - 12:19 pm 11. jerryofva:

Back during the campaign there was joke going around that went like this:

“Q: What’s the difference between Obama and Putin?”

“A: Putin is not a communist.”

As we all know from the Davos conference this joke is more then a joke. When a Soviet Trained thug has to warn the President of the United States that he should abandon his socialist ideology you know we are in trouble.

As regular posters know I have often referred to Obama as an America Mussolini wannabe who has neither the intellect or depth of knowledge of the once famous Italian dictator. Now we know he falls short of Russia’s new Czar in those respects as well.

To all our progressive guests I say you wanted him and now we all are stuck with him for four years. Sarah Palin is far more qualified for the office of President then Obama ever will be.

Feb 20, 2009 - 12:20 pm 12. Steve P.:

Delia: My neighbor who is a retired school principal with a disabled, wheel-chair bound wife lost 100k so far in his retirement package. He’s devastated.

Yeah, nice try, but I doubt that your neighbor lost an entire 100k of his saving in the 1 month that Obama’s been in office. You can thank your main man Chimpy McBush for that.

Feb 20, 2009 - 12:24 pm 13. BackwardsBoy:

Proven market solutions are an anathema to the current administration. Notions such as real tax cuts for businesses, tort reform, environmental deregulation and other common-sense policies that would actually work are derided as “failed”.
In reality, the only thing failing is Obama.

Feb 20, 2009 - 12:30 pm 14. Mongoose:

Ha ha ha! And Ha!

The whole point of his administration is to destroy Wall St. and Main St.

Get with the program, this is a Communist Coup. They mean to destroy the USA and replace her with the USSA. Have noting but hatred for Wall St. and Main St. All they love is the State (and themselves, natch).

The Middle Class as to go, and the way they will do it is by destroying their wealth, property and opportunities. The Middle Class in the country could be impoverished and destroyed in a couple of years from now. Then the America that we and our ancestors have known and loved will have passed from this Earth. That wealth will be gone. The Middle Class will cease to exist.

Feb 20, 2009 - 12:41 pm 15. David S:

Why would we turn back to the policies that got our economy into this mess in the first place?

The fiscal and monetary policies of the last eight years were a crime. The fundamentals of the US economy have been deteriorating for years, and Bush finally pushed us off the cliff.

Obama will not be able to restore America overnight. Reversing the Reagan Revolution will take decades, but it is the only responsible way forward. Turning back now would be a huge mistake. We still have time to prevent the worst case scenario of a total economic meltdown, but tax cuts are clearly not the answer.

Stimulus is a proven strategy, and despite the unprecedented condition of the economy, a coordinated global strategy is the most sure way to defend the market economies from collapse.

If Obama turns back now, and the economy can’t recover rapidly on its own, the American people will lean ever farther leftward. That is not an outcome that would bode well for the GOP.

Peace.

DS

Feb 20, 2009 - 12:51 pm 16. Bart:

I’ve long thought Palin needed to seperate from the “pack” by making a substantive policy statement regarding this whole debacle. Many thought Palin’s recent advice to Obama to “veto” the stimulus bill was silly or futile. Its looking more brilliant by the day. I love a politician who is succinct. Using one word per debate can move mountains.

Feb 20, 2009 - 12:52 pm 17. Melinda:

I believe we need to go a step further than a “Tea Party”. We need to pick a date for a national strike where people do not go to work or spend money.

Feb 20, 2009 - 12:53 pm 18. Jim Workman:

The economy is doing exactly what Obama wants it to do. He can’t enact his plans for America until we are bankrupt and full of despair. He needs his hungry mob of ten million to march on Washington to demand the Gov’t take our rights away for a crust of bread.

Feb 20, 2009 - 12:56 pm 19. Spanky:

I’m with comment #5 on this. Obama has been groomed and preparing his whole life for this opportunity. His pathological desire to reconfigure our society into his dream is the ONLY thing he will be working on. If and when (God forbid) he gets his wish, he’ll lose complete interest in governing and phone in the remaining years. We elected a sick, fanatic to run our country.

Feb 20, 2009 - 12:58 pm 20. ConservativeGirlie:

“…he plainly likes the campaign adulation and pomp of presidential visits.”

This is who he is and all he knows how to do. He’s a rock star with no thought in his head except, well, “I Won”.

God help us all.

Feb 20, 2009 - 1:10 pm 21. Talnik:

5,10,14,15…all of you correct; in the eyes of Obama and friends transnational socialism cannot be implemented with a strong–and armed–American middle class. They will bankrupt and disarm us, attempt to implement their discredited theories, and screw everything up beyond belief and repair, the new dark ages. Because they know best.

Feb 20, 2009 - 1:22 pm 22. jerryofva:

David S:

That’s the party line and you are sticking to it. The Bush Adminstration attempted to get at the root of the problem as early as 2002 when the IG found that Fannie and Freddie were engaging in poor business practices under Clinton appointed members to the Board. The Democrats let by Chris Dodd and Barnie Frank shot it down. In 2005, John McCain tried once again to fix the problem and the same politicians including freshman senator Barak Obama on Fannie and Freddie payrole shot that down too. Dodd, Frank, Obama and a host of other Democrats were on the take. There was article written in 2002 in the Atlantic Monthly on how corruption at Fannie and Freddie would cause a catastrophe.

Robert Barro wrote about something called the Government Budget Constraint in the early 1970’s. Government spending does not stimulate the economy. It is merely robbing Peter to pay Paul though taxes or borrowing or else financed by printing money. If you print money you get inflation. If you borrow money from foreigners then you get a falling dollar, high interest rates and more inflation. When the government spends money it merely transfers it from a less favored to more favored group. The Democrats are looting the economy Chicago style.

You can shove your peace.

Feb 20, 2009 - 1:27 pm 23. Steve P.:

David S., the whole conservative narrative is based upon the lie that America was prosperous under Reaganomics. The stimulus bill terrifies conservatives because it is a complete refutation of Reagan’s economic policies. If the stimulus works, i.e., appears to get the economy back on its feet and gets people working and spending, then the whole 20-year mythos of small government as the ideal will have been busted, and Reagan’s halo will be busted along with it. Reagan has been the veritable symbol of the conservative movement since 1981, so if their symbol gets tarnished, who will they have to fall back on? Nixon?

Feb 20, 2009 - 1:36 pm 24. Delia:

12. Steve P.,

You’re counting only since Zero has been in office? Hello? The stock market hasn’t liked him since he won the primary election.

Since the stock market is driven by future expectations I’m going to have to say the stock market was right on the money regarding our future with the big 0.

Feb 20, 2009 - 1:38 pm 25. bwana:

BHO is reverting to type. It is in his DNA and he can hide it only so long. Google Pathological Narcissist Obama and read about “grandiosity.” It fits him to a T. He sees a trillion like most of us see a million or a thousand. When the country falls to it’s collective knees he will be THE ONE, and lift us to socialism.

Feb 20, 2009 - 1:41 pm 26. alanstorm:

Steve P., as always, you make no sense.

“Yeah, nice try, but I doubt that your neighbor lost an entire 100k of his saving in the 1 month that Obama’s been in office. You can thank your main man Chimpy McBush for that.”

Soooo…GWB is the man responsible for what DIDN’T happen to Delia’s nieghbor? Sounds like liberal logic to me.

I know it’s hard for you, but please attempt to think. The markets started to drop as soon as Obama looked like he was sure to win the election, and have been sliding ever faster since. The market acts as a gauge on where investors think the economy WILL go, not where it has been – and the voice of no-confidence for BO is pretty clear.

Feb 20, 2009 - 1:42 pm 27. Mongoose:

Steve+P: As has been explained to you scores of times. It is the Marxist, redistributionist “policies” of the Democrats and the collusion of their Democrat biddies on Wa;; St. that got us into this mess, not Bush. He tried to refrom them, something like 17 times since 2006 alone.

And they these policies are still in place. Obama is in the process of larding even more idiotic Marxist nonsense over the current mess of regultaions.

If you wanted to get rid of the problems that got us into this mess, that would mean kicking the Democrats out of DC and putting them in the jail cells that they so richly deserve to be in.

Try getting your face straight before you let another one of the MSM eneables Democrat lies dribble out of your piehole.

The Democrats are not going to suffer for their perfidy, you know. You will, as will the rest of us.

Feb 20, 2009 - 1:46 pm 28. Mongoose:

Stve_P: oh yes you can blame obama, THe Dow has gone down over 2k points since Nov 4.

It has broeken a couple of technical barriers. The Dow may well hit 6K in the next two weeks.

You can indulge in your childish BDS all you want, but responsible adults with actual assets cannot indulge in such juvenile delusions. The market is listening and watching, and unlike you it actually understands what Obama is saying and doing.

Yet again, you have not the faintest notion of what you are talking about.

MSM lies and invective seem all you are capable of.

What are you going to do when your job goes down the tube?

Feb 20, 2009 - 1:55 pm 29. k. pablo:

“…jettison basic tenants of free market capitalism.”

Funny image. Don’t you mean TENETS of free market capitalism?

Feb 20, 2009 - 1:57 pm 30. fear Obama:

From a liberated blog site:

The markets will drop to 6500 and I hope all the way down to 5000 before June 09.
The Republicatons will loose their shirts and that is good for the Democrat party and our bailouts.

This dumb A$$ really believes that disaster will improve his standard of living and the prospects of the Dumbcrots.

Who? WHOM? and HOW will we pay the taxes to keep this dingbat in his sheltered lifestyle.

A 5000 market will result in about 30-35 percent unemployment and people will be stealing dumba$$es handout checks and raiding his food cabinets.

Are all Democrats this stupid?

Feb 20, 2009 - 2:02 pm 31. Pghmom:

All the top Dems are angry wealthy people bent on destroying the lives of middle America. They despise us. Total snobs. I though Obama was different. Not like rich boys Kerry, Gore or Bush, more like Clinton who understood how hard it was to make and save money. Clinton was a terrific President not a day goes by now that I don’t wish Hillary was in the White House. I know I am not the only one and I bet she wins 4 years from now.

Feb 20, 2009 - 2:09 pm 32. Retep:

# 12 Steve P.
I don’t know about that retired school principal, but I personally know many people that have lost well over $100,000 in the market over the last month. Somebody needs to explain to BO that those guys are firing live ammo now.

Feb 20, 2009 - 2:16 pm 33. Delia:

30. fear Obama:

“Are all Democrats this stupid?”
~

Good grief. *shiver*

Wellllllllll. With the way things have been going off the rails I’m going to have to go with a resounding “YES”.
~

26. alanstorm & 28. Mongoose,

Yep! EXACTLY.

Feb 20, 2009 - 2:18 pm 34. bear:

Mongoose, save your breath. The ones in love with the Big O don’t have the ability to correlate the facts/actions of the Dems with the consequences. (and the unintended consequences will kill us)

Feb 20, 2009 - 2:22 pm 35. Freddie Funky:

The market dive is not by accident. At first I attributed the administrations talking down of the economy to inexperience. Slowly I have come to the realization, that this is planned. The entire tone of the first month of the new president has been.. Crisis. We are in Crisis, and must act now. Since being in a crisis is effective.. Obama has a strong incentive to keep the crisis going. Stopping it now, wouldn’t advance his ends. So Obama has free reign to talk down the economy, his allies ( like David s.) will give him the pass that Bush created every problem and of course all the market dive is Bush’s fault.

The current market dive is purposeful, not by accident. In fact the lower it can go in the first 3 to 6 months of the Obama administration the better. The deeper it dives, the more Obama shines as the savior in 2010 and more importantly 2012. So. It needs to drop.. I would guess Obama would think another 200 – 500 points slide on the Dow per week for 10 weeks or so would be good.. With the crisis unfolding for months, he can drive through every legislative change he dreamed of in the next few months. If he can drive the market down another 50% or 75% in the short term, then even with the socialist policies the economy can show a recover by mid term elections. The global downturn that results will be felt for generations. But America will still be in a leading position in the world markets for some time. Even a moderate recover to today’s market levels will be considered an amazing achievement by the sycophantic press.

I am a bit humbled by the brilliance and audacity. You will hear the true American patriots scream into the media void. Never mind that thumping noise of the founding fathers rolling over in their graves. Prepare to be saved in 2010 by the America’s great savior.

Well that’s enough cheer for today. I am going to go spend some money on alcohol while I still can.

Feb 20, 2009 - 2:29 pm 36. keithacita:

how about some government belt tightening. from the states and the feds. everyone is cutting back except them. take a paycut, cut back on expenses like everyone else. stop flying around in your govt private jets you greedy incompetents. you want everyone else to but yoursevles.

Feb 20, 2009 - 2:30 pm 37. Pat J:

“Try getting your face straight before you let another one of the MSM eneables Democrat lies dribble out of your piehole.”
———–
Wuh-wuh-wuh-wuh-wuh-what?

Feb 20, 2009 - 2:31 pm 38. Tom in Vermont:

Ah, yes. It is the little gal with her mortgage problems next door who has brought the nation to its knees. Those folks who brooded over the banking system and garnered tens of millions of dollars in bonuses earned that money for patriotically depleting the country of many trillions of dollars of worth.

And you know what? The answer is tax cuts for those benevolent millionaires who got us here.

It’s all clear to me now.

Feb 20, 2009 - 2:32 pm 39. Terry Gain:

Government-centric? Try socialist. He’s just getting started.

If he were concerned about high unemployment he would have provided for increase benefits to the recently unemployed and tax breaks to businesses which create jobs. Instead he’s interested in power and control. Given his past this was to be expected unless you are dumb enough to judge a person by his promises rather than his record of deeds, words and associates.

Obama = Frank Marshal Davis + Ayers + Rezko + Wright + Dohrn + Odinga + ACORN
+ The New Party + no record of real accomplishment + refusal to release birth certificate and academic transcripts + avs credit card disablement = DISASTER

Feb 20, 2009 - 2:33 pm 40. Sparky:

I gained a grudging respect for Hillary during the campaign and think she would have made a much better POTUS than this guy.

Feb 20, 2009 - 2:35 pm 41. Retep:

David S & Steve P:
Just curious….who exactly will pay for the approx $3 trillion of debt that Mr. hopenchange is about to unload on us? fyi: forget China, they’re looking for $500 billion themselves as are most European countries. I repeat, who exactly?

Feb 20, 2009 - 2:36 pm 42. Yakubu Kasavubu:

Memo to Delia, David Thomson and other Vermin:

If you and your fellow capitalist rip-off artists would stop your spiteful attempts to screw Obama by wrecking the stock market, you would have fewer reasons for hurling racial insults. And if you had half a brain among you, you would be addressing your complaints to the Jewish Messiahs Tim Geithner and Larry Summers, who are driving the policy response to the credit crisis. If you’re looking for morons, look in the mirror!

Feb 20, 2009 - 2:36 pm 43. Tom:

It’s been less than a month. He’s been president for less than a month. Does anyone on this page remember when the economic meltdown started? Over a year ago? Are we really going to blame current strife on the president who has been in office LESS THAN A MONTH?
Stop being contrary morons and please stop talking about communism. It makes it very clear you don’t know what it is.

Feb 20, 2009 - 2:39 pm 44. WhereisJohnGalt?:

Mongoose: again, you cut straight to the chase….when will the country wake up?

The revolution is starting, Mongoose, could you write a new Common Sense, we need to reach them……..

Join the tea party…..it is coming

http://amfreenet.com/2009/02/chicago-tea-party/

Feb 20, 2009 - 2:40 pm 45. m. tomlinson:

I understand that writers need to make a living but Ms Rubin, what is the point of wasting your fine talent on telling BHO to stop wrecking the economy? Is it not obvious that the man is a communist who has promised to reshape America? Can a leopard change his spots? Please, face reality. We are doomed, though one wonders who will do us in first – the ayatollahs in Teheran or the ayatollah in DC.

Feb 20, 2009 - 2:42 pm 46. Laura:

“If he pursues this course of action — a government-centric recovery plan that in fact does little to spur private sector recovery — he puts his presidency and his vision of a new Democratic “permanent” majority at risk.”

But he accomplishes the bigger goal of structurally changing America to make government a bigger part of the social and economic fabric for the foreseeable future, in ways that cannot easily (if ever) be reversed. And that, I think, was and remains his ultimate objective.

Feb 20, 2009 - 2:56 pm 47. Matt:

And all I hear from democrats is the same thing I heard for 8 years- its all Bush’s fault. I get the impression nothing will be Obama’s fault until he leaves office.

FAILED POLICIES OF LAST 8 YEARS ! When the President’s website is screeching it, you know we’re FUBAR.

Feb 20, 2009 - 2:56 pm 48. AThinkingPerson:

Anyone else smell the rising hysteria coming out of the liberal cave these days? I always find it amusing when every answer they give when questioned about ANY of Obama’s Presidential decisions so far has the words….”well George Bush….” It’s truly getting tiresome. Funny and predictable, but tiresome nonetheless. Steve P and David S….prove to us you aren’t one trick ponies. Liberals are supposed to be the “open” minded crowd right? Another myth debunked by our friends Steve P and David S.

Feb 20, 2009 - 2:57 pm 49. Billy:

This Rubin lady really is a moron. She said Joe the Plumber and was actually trying to make a serious point. God help us. BTW Jennifer, you hypocrite, the markets are testing the OCT lows now, which happened under Bush, because he was not doing anything to stem the crisis. So in your infinite wisdom you want Obama to do nothing too? Hmmm, that sounds about right. Let the “markets” handle it. Do you realize we have a $3 trillion hole in our banking system? Unless you have that cash lying around, and you can recapitalize the banks by yourself, then it is going to take more, not less, gov’t intervention and Fed policy. Period.

Feb 20, 2009 - 3:00 pm 50. AThinkingPerson:

I, for one, am enjoying this smug “told-you-so” feeling that comes whenever I think of how I stood up for reason and saw through Obama lies BEFORE the election. Four years of watching the liberal agenda of turning America into a 3rd world country should make for a very strong GOP in 4 (possibly even 2!!) years. Thank you Mr. Obama. You’ve done more for the Republicans than Reagan and Monica Lewinsky ever could!

Feb 20, 2009 - 3:01 pm 51. keith:

Barack Obama’s government-centric economic policies are causing rampant fear on Wall Street and Main Street.So the tables have turned then, good!! Now you financial fraudsters will suffer, unfortunatly so will the rest of us.
And goodbye to the Babbling Baboon Bush! That must be a reasonable start for
the future.

Feb 20, 2009 - 3:03 pm 52. TheEnforcer:

15. David S:

Why would we turn back to the policies that got our economy into this mess in the first place?

The fiscal and monetary policies of the last eight years were a crime. The fundamentals of the US economy have been deteriorating for years, and Bush finally pushed us off the cliff.
===========================================================================
Yeah!

Keep blaming Bush you idiot. Didn’t you notice the market started going down when Obama was practically assured the nomination and it’s been downhill ever since?

And also, didn’t you notice the economy started going down hill since 2006?
Guess what happened in 2006. Yes, the DemocRATS were voted the majority into Congress and it’s been downhill ever since.

Obama will not be able to restore America overnight. Reversing the Reagan Revolution will take decades, but it is the only responsible way forward. Turning back now would be a huge mistake. We still have time to prevent the worst case scenario of a total economic meltdown, but tax cuts are clearly not the answer.
============================================================================
You mean to say that consumers having more money in their pockets to spend will not stimulate the economy?
Why don’t we all tell Congress and the President that an extra 2800 dollars in the pockets of 300 million Americans will do more than giving it away to special DemocRATic interests.
============================================================================
Stimulus is a proven strategy, and despite the unprecedented condition of the economy, a coordinated global strategy is the most sure way to defend the market economies from collapse.

If Obama turns back now, and the economy can’t recover rapidly on its own, the American people will lean ever farther leftward. That is not an outcome that would bode well for the GOP.

Peace.

DS
============================================================================You are one of those 63 million fools who voted for Obama weren’t you?

Peace

Feb 20, 2009 - 3:03 pm 53. TheEnforcer:

42. Yakubu Kasavubu:

Memo to Delia, David Thomson and other Vermin:

If you and your fellow capitalist rip-off artists would stop your spiteful attempts to screw Obama by wrecking the stock market, you would have fewer reasons for hurling racial insults. And if you had half a brain among you, you would be addressing your complaints to the Jewish Messiahs Tim Geithner and Larry Summers, who are driving the policy response to the credit crisis. If you’re looking for morons, look in the mirror!

============================================================================
No, I think Obama is doing a pretty good job of wrecking the market himself every time he opens his mouth about “crisis”.

Why even President Clinton in so few words asked him to STFU(Shut The F*** Up)

Feb 20, 2009 - 3:08 pm 54. mishu:

Just curious….who exactly will pay for the approx $3 trillion of debt that Mr. hopenchange is about to unload on us? fyi: forget China, they’re looking for $500 billion themselves as are most European countries. I repeat, who exactly?

We will through the magic of inflation. Obama = Jimmy Carter II.

Feb 20, 2009 - 3:09 pm 55. Silver Wings:

#42

Your anti-semitism is showing. Who do think provides jobs? Business. How are businesses capitalized? Stocks. Move to Putin’s Russis.

Feb 20, 2009 - 3:15 pm 56. tc:

Ms. Rubin: turn back–turn back from the fulfillment of the bountiful harvest of the racist and liberal dream of making every “nice” neighborhood in the country a blight by welcoming those that would’ve never been able to afford, much less care for the homes that are there? Why would he turn back–the liberal dream is surely to make every conservative conclave completely inhospitable in this country.

I guess if he’s going to make living in our homes inhospitable, then we should make living in OUR WHITE HOUSE equally as inhospitable. That is a door that swings both ways folks. Can I have my foreclosed neighbors furniture and crap that’s all on his lawn shipped up to the White House and strung out on his lawn?

Feb 20, 2009 - 3:20 pm 57. Billy:

Coming to this board always makes me think the same thing, America is getting what she deserves. There is literally a moron here that thinks because Obama says the word crisis, the markets go down. It’s like traders and institutional investors don’t look at the employment numbers, corporate earnings, foreclosure rates and the sad state of credit spreads as indicators. Oh lord, we have really found some dumb ones here. Let’s just have Obama say things are fine and go off to his ranch for 6 weeks and see if everything fixes itself.

Feb 20, 2009 - 3:24 pm 58. NWI Mike:

At some point the One will have taken us down so far that enough people will rise up to save what little is left. wouldn’t want to be a Damnocrat then!

Feb 20, 2009 - 3:24 pm 59. Rotwang:

The free market and deregulation would bring us to our knees fast enough. Obama is merely buying us enough time to buy seeds and firewood.

Those of you who think this was all working before fine Obama became President, or that the end-result of capitalism is any different from the end-result of socialism, really need to turn off the TV and read a book every now and then.

America has been artificially riding high since the end of World War II. Now that money is portable and our corporations have no national allegiance, it was inevitable that we would end up with a quality of life comparable to that of Bangalore. Bush and his cronies only hastened the end…and all Obama can do is delay it a few months.

Feb 20, 2009 - 3:25 pm 60. hoads:

We are full throttle down the first steep hill unless—people wake up and organize massive protests large enough that they cannot be ignored by the media (>1mil). You can be sure Obama and his comrades are aware of a festering of malcontent but, using their media and pollsters, will attempt to feign public support for their agenda. Does anybody really believe that Obama had an approval rating of 68% at his inauguration when he only received 54% of the vote? Already, we’re seeing polls coming out showing majority of Americans of all political parties support big government–government should provide housing, food, jobs, healthcare. Obama’s team will be ordering up all kinds of polls and they will all show the majority of Americans support his policies but, don’t believe it. Polling companies are as corrupt as the government and they share a rank incestuous relationship with one another. Any poll can be constructed to contrive whatever results are being pursued. Here’s the father of “public relations” Edward Bernays in his book “Propaganda” published in 1928:

Propaganda (1928)
“Those who manipulate the unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of. This is a logical result of the way in which our democratic society is organized. Vast numbers of human beings must cooperate in this manner if they are to live together as a smoothly functioning society. In almost every act of our lives whether in the sphere of politics or business in our social conduct or our ethical thinking, we are dominated by the relatively small number of persons who understand the mental processes and social patterns of the masses. It is they who pull the wires that control the public mind.
Page 9″

Obamabots will be working hard to engineer perceived consensus. Those of us who do dissent must hold tight and continue to inform our friends and family as much as possible about the agenda of this administration. We will see plenty of dubious poll results meant to create an aura of majority support which makes fair weather dissenters fall back in line to avoid having to defend their positions within “the crowd and walla, the narrative wins and dissent becomes a smolder. Don’t let this happen. Hone up on your facts and figures and be prepared to defend your statements.

Feb 20, 2009 - 3:36 pm 61. Ned:

Hey guys,

So the people on Wall Street that got us into this mess with the aide of the hands-off philosophy of the last administration are taking a sceptical view of Obamanomics – so what!

This article is saying that because the people who got us into this mess don’t have confidence in the new plan, the new plan is wrong – seems counterintuitive to me.

Maybe we should be happy that Wall Street is having a teenage petulant tantrum over the fact that an adult has arrived and stopped the party.

Ned

Feb 20, 2009 - 3:38 pm 62. Cybergeezer:

I can’t stop laughing; Obama’s created another office! Office of Urban Affairs!!!!!!!!
When all else fails, fall back on something you know. Even if it’s damn little. When’s this total incompetent, barely educated, sad substitute for an American man going to resign?

Feb 20, 2009 - 3:44 pm 63. Delia:

42. Yakubu Kasavubu,

HUH? How is putting hard EARNED money into a retirement 401k being a rip-off artist? My husband and I work our ASSES off running our own business [17+ years] and employing others with families too. We have sacrificed a LOT to get where we are for ZERO to try and take it all away now? That’s okay with you?

Wowie, wow, wow!

Yep. This is the leftist mentality we’re dealing with here, folks. There’s a glaring smidgeon of jealosy you can scratch just below the surface of their rhetoric.

*bangs head against keyboard*

Feb 20, 2009 - 3:44 pm 64. Cybergeezer:

I have to add, that this pathetic boy is an embarrassment for the U.S. But, he will not embarrass anyone but his own race, and any one who voted for him.
It’s either that or a big war, which he is even more unqualified to be involved in.

Feb 20, 2009 - 3:54 pm 65. ACJ:

It would be way more scary if a republican won the election, and if the republicans were still in power. We would still have lies and wolves out there stealing the ones that have anything left in the world.

Feb 20, 2009 - 3:57 pm 66. Terry Gain:

Hey Ned

The economy is not working because of excessive government spending and stupid, corrupt “fannie mae type” government programs. Only idiots think more of the same is going to fix the problem.

Feb 20, 2009 - 4:00 pm 67. Yakubu Kasavubu:

Delia:

Obama did not cause or aggravate this crisis. He inherited it from know-it-alls like Alan Greenspan, who represented, and acted with the full approval of your class of Americans. People like you, and the Republican leadership you elected, caused this crisis for the rest of us. And incidentally, the theory of surplus value tells us all that capitalists who pay wages set by the market are, by definition, an exploiter class.

Feb 20, 2009 - 4:02 pm 68. juan deiparine:

Conservatives would rather go into denial about the real economic situation. After all, one of their leading economic minds, John Tower, said that recession was all in the mind.

Conservatives are having such a tough time accepting the reality that Reaganomics was all a big lie. So much smoke and mirrors that finally brought us to this disastrous situation.

Feb 20, 2009 - 4:05 pm 69. Gus:

“The public did not vote for a European-style social welfare state”

The hell 54% of them didn’t!

Feb 20, 2009 - 4:05 pm 70. Jason:

I think people need to wake up to the fact that the entire point of this exercise is to, in fact, destroy capitalism. They want it to fail so that people will embrace the government out of fear.

Feb 20, 2009 - 4:06 pm 71. Delia:

67. Yakubu Kasavubu: “pay wages set by the market?”

What on EARTH are you talking about? We own a construction/carpentry/remodel business. We pay people on what SKILLS they have. Damn, you sure do ASSume a lot of B.S.

Everyone else has already explained more than enough to answer your insipid questions.

ignore\\

Feb 20, 2009 - 4:10 pm 72. Cybergeezer:

Who’s the wonder boy going to blame when the White House falls down around his ears? Whitey!!

Feb 20, 2009 - 4:13 pm 73. The Wizard:

No Obama did not cause this crisis; the Democrats did this with bills passed regarding regulation of mortgages, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Let’s look to Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid. These liberal idiots structured the bills that created this morass. Please, remember, Presidents don’t enact legislation – congress does. However, Obama is an incompetent idiot. He is the new “paris hilton” of Washington, DC – rushing to photo opps, texting on his blackberry (oops – white berry) and being so “au courant”.

His lack of experience, wisdom and the fact the man has never held a real job, is now coming to play. We have a fool in the WH. A Hubris fool! Thanks to the Obamanation, I have been laid off, my life savings are in ruins, I will probably lose my home and guess what…I can’t find a job. But the Pork Bill he signed (never read) does not help you and me….only friend of Nancy and Harry’s!!! Oh, did I mention, government gets 600,000 new cars. While the rest of the country is cutting staff….Congress and the Obamanation are increasing staff and giving themselves raises.

We are in huge trouble. Hopefully, someone will find a way to impeach this arrogant bastard sooner, rather than later. He is destroying everything good in the country.

Feb 20, 2009 - 4:15 pm 74. Cybergeezer:

Yea! Having this incompetent, ignorant, and arrogant a-hole in office is really doing wonders for race relations.

Feb 20, 2009 - 4:22 pm 75. David Thomson:

“The public did not vote for a European-style social welfare state”

The hell 54% of them didn’t!”

Barack Obama would have lost the election if he openly embraced a European-style social welfare state. At best, he would have lost by five percentage points. Never forget that a sizeable number of voters thought that Obama would be no worse than Bill Clinton. Also, I am still glad that Obama defeated John McCain! The GOP candidate was a loser.

Try to imagine if we could have another election between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney. Who do you think would win?

Feb 20, 2009 - 4:22 pm 76. David S:

@52. TheEnforcer:

Keep blaming Bush you idiot. Didn’t you notice the market started going down when Obama was practically assured the nomination and it’s been downhill ever since? And also, didn’t you notice the economy started going down hill since 2006?
Guess what happened in 2006. Yes, the DemocRATS were voted the majority into Congress and it’s been downhill ever since.

I guess you didn’t notice the mortgage bubble that Bush & Co. fostered, which started collapsing before the Democrats took back Congress…
2002, June 17: President G.W. Bush sets goal of increasing minority home owners by at least 5.5 million by 2010 through billions of dollars in tax credits, subsidies and a Fannie Mae commitment of $440 billion to establish NeighborWorks America with faith based organizations.
2003, June: Federal Reserve Chair Alan Greenspan lowers federal reserve’s key interest rate to 1%, the lowest in 45 years.
…
2004, October:SEC effectively suspends net capital rule for five firms – Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns and Morgan Stanley. Freed from government imposed limits on the debt they can assume, they levered up 20, 30 and even 40 to 1
…
Fall 2005: Booming housing market halts abruptly; from the fourth quarter of 2005 to the first quarter of 2006, median prices nationwide dropped of 3.3 percent.
…
2007, September 1–3: Fed Economic Symposium in Jackson Hole, WY addressed the housing recession that jeopardizes U.S. growth. Several critics argued that the Fed should use regulation and interest rates to prevent asset-price bubbles, blamed former Fed-chairman Alan Greenspan’s low interest rate policies for stoking the U.S. housing boom and subsequent bust, and Yale University economist Robert Shiller warned of possible home price declines of 50 percent.

You mean to say that consumers having more money in their pockets to spend will not stimulate the economy?
Why don’t we all tell Congress and the President that an extra 2800 dollars in the pockets of 300 million Americans will do more than giving it away to special DemocRATic interests.

Consumers having more money will only spend more if they have job security. That’s beside the point, as the Reagan Revolution provided tax cuts to the wealthy – who are not spending it to stimulate the economy.

You are one of those 63 million fools who voted for Obama weren’t you?

To paraphrase Frank Zappa (from Baby Snakes)…

Awright, now check this out. How many of you people feel that DEMOCRACY has gotten entirely TOO PREPOSTEROUS? I see that you’re not all convinced. Some of you believe that DEMOCRACY is REAL. I can see that there was probably about 20 percent of the audience has had it up to here, and the rest of you people still believe in that shit. Okay, well this is dedicated to the rest of you people that still believe in that shit.

Peace.

DS

Feb 20, 2009 - 4:26 pm 77. Delia:

73. The Wizard,

GREAT points but I do differ PARTLY with the Obama blame and that is his socialist politics scared/scare the crap of Wall Street and now his “Crisis! Catastrophe!” is just pushing more widespread panic. Having savings in any single bank over 50k is risky!

I’m so sorry to hear of your job loss and I hope you are able to keep your home and find a job ASAP. We are trying with all our might to stay above water. We’re already draining our nest-egg, savings and home equity to hopefully ride this storm through.

A lot of people are getting furious and fed up and the porkulus bill is pushing folks over the edge of the precipice.

Have a nice evening, everyone. I need to sign-off and take some deep breaths.

Feb 20, 2009 - 4:30 pm 78. Georgia Peach:

Ned, are you serious? Your post would be funny if it weren’t so sad that you honestly don’t *understand* how our country got into this mess.

Since you believe that Wall Street did this, please share with all of us EXACTLY HOW Wall Street caused the millions of homeowners to default…which caused the housing market to PLUMMET…and many banks to faulter or outright fail…and stop lending money because of all the bad subprime loans!

I’m waiting. I’ve got to hear this!!!

Feb 20, 2009 - 4:42 pm 79. PoliticalSkeptic:

He supported McCain during the elections. What would you expect, fair and balanced opinion?

Feb 20, 2009 - 4:48 pm 80. hoads:

We are seeing the convergence of the capitalists’ and the socialists’ elite. The Federal Reserve is the true culprit of our economic woes and it is they who seek to wrestle away our successful republic by robbing our savings and using it to erect their international economy. It it the people of the industrialized world who are the victims of this group who seek to make the world putty in their hands where they can control the resources of all countries at their will. These international bankers see the benefit of socialism where governments meet the needs of the people so that corporations are freed from moral constraints and can proceed with their ultimate quest of profits over people. Governments are willing to sellout their people for power financed by the global corporations. It is the siphoning of wealth from the world’s producers that will catapult an elite group to remake the world according to their utopian vision exposing us mere citizens to their global tyranny.

Feb 20, 2009 - 5:03 pm 81. james:

Since Obama has been President for almost four years now, you would think things would have improved by now…..oh, wait. I forgot. Obama has been in office A Whole Month!!! Geez! Bush/Cheney got 8 years to run this country into the ground. And, I didn’t vote for a Democrat for President for the first time in my life in order to continue those same failed policies. You go, Obama! Ignore those who got us in this mess in the first place, and do your thing!

Feb 20, 2009 - 5:05 pm 82. Obama is not serious:

Obama inviting Rick Santelli to the White House shows the lack
of seriousness in this administration.

It will be a long, long, long, long four years.

Feb 20, 2009 - 5:13 pm 83. TheEnforcer:

76. David S:

I guess you didn’t notice the mortgage bubble that Bush & Co. fostered, which started collapsing before the Democrats took back Congress…
2002, June 17: President G.W. Bush sets goal of increasing minority home owners by at least 5.5 million by 2010 through billions of dollars in tax credits, subsidies and a Fannie Mae commitment of $440 billion to establish NeighborWorks America with faith based organizations.
2003, June: Federal Reserve Chair Alan Greenspan lowers federal reserve’s key interest rate to 1%, the lowest in 45 years.

============================================================================
It seems to me you only read what’s convenient to the point you are trying to make, David S. If you had kept reading to the next paragraph (from your link), this is what the NY Times wrote on Sept 11, 2003, quoting two of your favorite DemocRATS:

“These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis,” said Representative Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the ranking Democrat on the Financial Services Committee. “The more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.”

Representative Melvin L. Watt, Democrat of North Carolina, agreed.

“I don’t see much other than a shell game going on here, moving something from one agency to another and in the process weakening the bargaining power of poorer families and their ability to get affordable housing,” Mr. Watt said.

So, who is to blame for this Housing Mess?

Bush did approve of this affordable housing program but WITH MORE OVERSIGHT FOR FANNIE AND FREDDIE, but Congressional DemocRATS blocked it.

Feb 20, 2009 - 5:27 pm 84. ricpic:

It’s time to act on Thomas Jefferson’s words.

Feb 20, 2009 - 5:36 pm 85. TheEnforcer:

To paraphrase Frank Zappa (from Baby Snakes)…

Awright, now check this out. How many of you people feel that DEMOCRACY has gotten entirely TOO PREPOSTEROUS? I see that you’re not all convinced. Some of you believe that DEMOCRACY is REAL. I can see that there was probably about 20 percent of the audience has had it up to here, and the rest of you people still believe in that shit. Okay, well this is dedicated to the rest of you people that still believe in that shit.

============================================================================
One pothead quoting another pothead.

I guess your brain is still in the ’70’s

I don’t know if you know this.

Check the calendar.

It’s 2009.

Feb 20, 2009 - 5:45 pm 86. Mike:

Just think of him as our first PWAC since Jimmy Carter (President Without A Clue). He’s in over his head but he’s too arrogant to know it. My theory is that he never expected to win; he entered the race as practice for 2012 or 2016, and rapidly became a CWAC when he pulled ahead of Hillary. He stumbled the rest of the way through while trying to figure out WTF he was gonna do if he actually won, and we can now see the results; he’s letting everyone else run the show while he continues to campaign (against himself, as it’s turning out).

Feb 20, 2009 - 5:51 pm 87. Mandy:

What is the weather like in the Alternate Reality in which Jennifer Rubin lives?

Feb 20, 2009 - 5:59 pm 88. Senderling:

Bush is looking better by the day! The losers who voted Obama in will still be losers 8 years from now when he is out

Feb 20, 2009 - 6:05 pm 89. Steeple:

We are getting what we deserve for letting lawyers run this country, whether they be from the Left or the Right wing. Most lawyers have never really managed or created anything of economic value; they either serve or feed off of those who do.

The Values and Beliefs that underscored the founding of this country have been crowded out by those who have engineered a executive/legislative/regulatory processes that only lawyers and those who know how to game the system can navigate for their personal gain, whether it be for money and/or power.

How does a non-lawyer work to impact this morass while trying to raise a family, keep a job and fulfill one’s basic obligations?

Feb 20, 2009 - 6:07 pm 90. Bilgeman:

If he’s not a doofus, then he just may be an evil genius.

GE closed trading at under 10 bucks.

Pay VERY CLOSE attention to who starts buying all these stocks.

Am I the only one here who remembers that George Soros made a mint in 1992 by shorting the pound?

“All the ingredients for crisis, then, were in place. However, four special aspects of the ERM crises should be noted.

First was the role of a large actor – George Soros – in triggering the crisis. Soros had divined early in the game the possibility of a sterling devaluation, and set about discreetly establishing a short position in the form of a number of short-term credit lines, totalling approximately $15 billion. He was thus in a position to profit from a collapse of the exchange regime, and did in fact attempt by his own sales to precipitate that collapse. It remains unclear, however, how important a role his actions actually played; it is arguable that the fundamental reasons for the crisis would have set it off even without any action on Soros’s part. A guess might be that he advanced the date of the crisis by only a few weeks or months.”

from:
http://web.mit.edu/krugman/www/crises.html

In a market as spectacularly overvalued as real estate was, and consequently over-leveraged on credit, it was bound to happen sooner or later, and might have been tipped for a short position profit, or extended for some longer-term infiltrations into sound investments purchased at steep discounts.

Feb 20, 2009 - 6:25 pm 91. hoads:

Steeple, I would extend your astute analysis to our financial sector as well. Between the two, they’ve conjured a way to snow the public and rape our coffers.

Feb 20, 2009 - 6:27 pm 92. CapitalistForChange:

Wow!…Jen Rubin claims that Obama’s presidency is really in trouble. His policies are being rejected by Wall street AND “main street”…Here’s my problem with Jen’s “rush to failure” and the market’s whining: The President maintains a 67% (CNN today)APPROVAL rating. He’s even at at 60% on a stack-the-deck poll commissioned by FOX News!. He is rated at 80% (TODAY!)for being a “strong leader”??…Gee. Maybe the usual disconnect between the GOP and the rest of the country STILL has not sunk in with the (not really) “fiscal conservatives”…See Jen, I believe that most of America DOES agree with Dubya when he said “Are the cameras turned off?OK, what happened here is Wall street got drunk”….Now we KNOW that the echo chamber of Drudge-Fox-Pajamas won’t allow that Presidential popularity issue get in the way of the constant “he’s a failure” chatter. “Financial media” is the biggest misnomer around. Can someone explain how the “financial media” totally MISSED the biggest story of it’s collective existence??..You know, the one about the mortgage backed securities ponzi? ..But let’s not argue over the past. Let’s look at the benefits of the market “falling” due to the hypocritical-double which combines the “he’s not offering details to save us” ALONG WITH the “government needs to stop trying to save us” rants. The REAL benefit to “average Americans” is that our market has been operating in SCAM MODE for over a decade. The market’s showing itself to be a petulent, hyperactive, A.D.D-riden adolescent. People are watching and moving into money markets and gold (?!). The Libertarians always said that we never should have gone away from the gold standard. The Libertarians are CORRECT…We really should be A-F-R-A-I-D of an institution that gave us the “dot-com boom” (and bust) followed by the mortgage backed securities boom and bust…This is the VERY SAME “market” that teetered because Obama was not moving “quick enough”(!?) in NOVEMBER to put in his economic team…Maybe we should encourage “the market” and the ideologically driven “reporters” that cover it; to refrain from hyperventilating over inconsequential drivel emanating from sources such as a KNOWN pompus windbag Senator (Chris Dodd)…No Jen, “mainstreet” is not against Obama…The real problem here is that “Wall Street” has run America INTO THE GROUND, for far too long. The money crowd and their pundits are mad as hell because the lifeguard has FINALLY blown the whistle and yelled: “kids get out of the pool. It’s time for Adult swim!!”

Feb 20, 2009 - 6:53 pm 93. scumby:

Obama is pandering to those that brought him to the dance. The moochers and filthy rich liberals.

1) Young student voters
2) Deadbeat welfare system parasites blacks like Herietta Hughes and her 37-year old son
3) Rich liberals like Springsteen and Oprah.

Feb 20, 2009 - 6:56 pm 94. InThisDimension:

Why do people insist on continually assuming that Democrats and Republicans want the same goals? It’s just insanity to think so.

Pundits complain that this or that policy will bankrupt the country – as though this isn’t what Democrats want to do.
People complain that this or that behavior will cause cultural destruction. Guess what the Democrats want?
Reporters write that doing such-and-so will not be, or is not popular with the voters… Democrats don’t care about voters – every election they dislike they overturn judicially – PAY ATTENTION.
And people – even (especially?) idiots like Krugman (and don’t tell me he won a Nobel; so did Carter, and he’s the 2nd-worst President of the 20th Century) ask how we’re ever going to pay back the stimulus? HELLO?! Did the USSR ever pay back it’s debt? Is there a difference I have not been able to detect between the USSR Politburo and the DNC? Between Pravda and the NY Times? Nope.

Feb 20, 2009 - 7:00 pm 95. Matt:

Dear most ridiculous people on the face of the earth:

Maybe my favorite of the many, many worthless comments you have all made is this one:

“Bush is looking better by the day! The losers who voted Obama in will still be losers 8 years from now when he is out”

If Bush is looking so good, why do you presume Obama is going to be RE-ELECTED? Let me guess, it’s because you think 54% of the American people are stoopid, right?

But do please continue your scared, angry whining as the oligarchy you so cherish falls to ruins all around you. Guess what, people? Your Reagan Revolution is finally over. It’s done. Commence dealing with it.

Feb 20, 2009 - 7:04 pm 96. Tim Buck II:

We’re now down well over 2000 points on the Dow since election day. Gold is up over $200/oz in the same time.

If one were consciously attempting to destroy the American economy, what exactly would one do that is different from what Team Obama is now doing?

Almost every step they take is the precise opposite of what we should be doling. Massive debt/leverage is what created the crisis; to propose more of the same as a cure is irrational. If massive debt loading could actually create prosperity, we’d all be millionaires today.

There is no one – and I do mean no one – who actually believes these nutty programs will do anything other than make a very bad situation much, much worse.

We should be doing the opposite. We should cut federal spending to the bone and spend nothing on anything except for defense and paying down the national debt. Every business and every household in the nation is now cutting way back on spending; only our government could possibly be this divorced from reality. I doubt even the media believes these plans can succeed – though they’d never say it aloud.

Rick Santelli and Jennifer are both correct. The inmates now run the asylum and, worse, now own the keys to the national mint.

This will end in utter chaos.

Feb 20, 2009 - 7:05 pm 97. AtheistConservative:

“Stimulus is a proven strategy,”

When, exactly, was it proven?

In the 30’s when it extended the Great Depression by 7 years?
In the 90’s in Japan when it generated a ‘lost decade’?

You know how many times tax cuts have been proven to reverse recession? Every time it was tried.

What’s the point even talking to people like you? You lie to yourself first and everyone else second.

Feb 20, 2009 - 7:09 pm 98. Bilgeman:

#88 senderling:

“The losers who voted Obama in will still be losers 8 years from now when he is out.”

No they won’t..they’ll be BROKE losers.
And it won’t take 8 years, either.

Feb 20, 2009 - 7:11 pm 99. DH:

When will the populus who follow these libs understand the ideology of that party is to keep you firmly in your place w/o any hope or ability for success? Thus it keeps them as the elite and in power.
No wonder they love to raise taxes, they DON”T PAY THEM!!!!
When are they going to respect tha American people, the ones who pay the bills, Schumer’s little porky bills bothering the “chattering class”? What will he call the Chinese while they continue paying the bills?
Someone needs to let the Pres know, he won as he so smugly put it, meaning he MUST GOVERN, not cont to campaign. All the doom and gloom, Obama might actually rival Jimmy Carter for a depressing style and total lack of leadership! Although I can undestand it when he sees Rep Frank, Rangel, Pelosi, et all still making failed policies. Since ‘06 the Dems have been in-charge of Congress, the steady decline has been omnipresent. Correlation????
Finally…….WE NEED A REVOLUTION! Santelli is right, let’s starting making the plans, these people are so entrenched in DC, just follow the money, we need to change it now.

Feb 20, 2009 - 7:13 pm 100. Bilgeman:

#57 Billy:
” Let’s just have Obama say things are fine and go off to his ranch for 6 weeks and see if everything fixes itself.”

If only…I know a nice spread for sale in Crawford TX, and it’s already wired for the Secret Service…they still have the local Domino’s and Papa John’s in their cell phones.

Feb 20, 2009 - 7:15 pm 101. Michael Dickerson:

To hell with this right wing mob. Push on Obama.

Feb 20, 2009 - 7:49 pm 102. Bill Carson:

Think about it! This is just like Cuba. 50 years after the revolution, they’re still saying that the people must fight for the revolution. That is why Obama and the leftists are saying that the stimulus will take a “long time.” Foolish Americans: You bought extreme socialism and don’t even know it! Even now, Americans are lying to themselves, saying the stimulus is something bad but “we had to do it!” No you didn’t have to do it. You don’t ever have to support socialism like Cuba.

Anyway, take care of your cars. You might be driving them for the next 30 or 40 years! Just like in Cuba!

Feb 20, 2009 - 7:49 pm 103. ASDF_JKL::

Economy going down, Obama called us Catastrophe country, rush & force congress to sign stimulus, took 3 days off in Chicago for vacation, sign stimulus bill, and chill out while Economy going down just bit more. It’s only way to destroy America so “Liberal” can “Re-build” america.

Feb 20, 2009 - 8:12 pm 104. narciso:

Someone forgot that interest rates were raised 18 consecutive times between 2004 and 2006, among other annoying details in your timeline. The Bush,
McCain, and Greenspan efforts have been mentioned at length. Forgetting this was about the rating that G.W. Bush had around this last time, eight years ago

Feb 20, 2009 - 8:16 pm 105. rapchat:

Actually Inthisdimension , it was republicans who set out to bankrupt the country – remember “starve the beast”?

I guess the self righteous have finally gotten what they wanted, but are so in denial about the consequences that they will distort reality to find some way to blame Obama, who is at least making some attempt to clean up the mess. You can disagree with his policies, but he is no socialist or communist, and the current stock drop has everything to do with overseas stock and bank problems – and nothing to do with him.

Feb 20, 2009 - 8:16 pm 106. amonthinoffice:

OH MY GOSH!!! The geniuses on Wall Street don’t like the stimulus package??? We are in big trouble nowwww. By the way: All you good people who talk about Obama’s Socialist plan and Communism and the like, you add nothing to what should be a serious and thoughtful conversation!

Feb 20, 2009 - 8:39 pm 107. Doug:

Obama’s approval rating is still approaching 70%. Sorry Right Wingers, but you’re in a shrinking marginal minority.

PS: You’re even in worse shape among young people. If you think Americans 20 years from now are going to be OK with trillions of dollars being spent on the upper 1% and overseas while getting all excited about $25 billion helping real people facing foreclosure, you need to have your heads examined. You’re boneheaded thinking is dead.

Feb 20, 2009 - 9:15 pm 108. Rod:

Barack Obama’s stimulus has two deficiencies, (1) it waists vast sums of money in the hope some of it will stimulate, and (2) it ignores the fact that the US economy is part of the global economy. Obama’s stimulus presumes the US economy operates in isolation.

Obama’s stimulus package utterly fails to address the need to improve the US trade balance. Which means that we continue to consume more imported goods that we export. Which means that our dollars continue to flow out. Which means that we become poorer by the day. Which means that economic stagnation, unemployment and inflation are all given impetus.

Obama’s stimulus contains nothing that makes US manufacturers more competitive globally. For example, it contains no tax reductions for business. When Ireland reduced her corporate tax rate from 22 to 11 percent she went from the second lowest per-capita income in Europe to the second highest. Reducing the corporate tax rate reduced business operating costs, so that Irish business could reduce prices and improve their global competitive stance. When business picked up due to more across border sales, jobs and improved incomes were the result.

Obama might take note that the US corporate tax rate is the second highest in the world behind Japan at 35 percent.

Feb 20, 2009 - 9:28 pm 109. Delia:

Let’s just halt the blame game for a hot second [yes, I had dinner and I'm feelin' my druthers].

The point about cheesy lawyers running too much game on BOTH sides of the isle was a very good point and one I wanted to make the other day but couldn’t find quite the right words! I AGREE! Get those mofos out of politics and get people who know how to manage money in the REAL sense and have run a business or two.

We have turned our whole country into the biggest Ponzi scheme ever [starting with FDR and the broken joke known as 'Social Security']…the ultimate pyramid scheme EVER that was supposed to BENEFIT by picking the pockets of citizens in hopes that they’d die much sooner than they’d ever ‘cash-in’ for said benefits.

I’m tired of being ANGRY at my fellow American who believes different than me to the point of polarization and dehumanization.

We are ALL Americans Damnit! Doesn’t that mean something any longer?

Will all of our anger and frustration turn into a civil war of epic proportions? I’m beginning to think the sad answer is a soft, breathy, frightened, “yes”.

The sinister BO admin has in store for us is complete collapse and then complete submission.

Pinko Commies will always heartily go for the above. -But, what about you middle-ground people? What about YOU? Are YOU ready to sacrifice America for which it stands?

We are stronger UNITED than divided. Sometimes you have to wake-up and look a corrupt government in the eye and see it for what it is and stop being blinded by partisan politics.

This is OUR future and CHILDREN’S future, people! Do you even FATHOM what horrors 0bama has for us next? Do you?

I’m not talking tin-foil hat prolix… I’m talking REALITY and how very backwards this Admin wants to take us.

Are some of you Libs really ready to embrace the complete denigration of our society?

Believe me, when those of us who are “producers” stop producing there will be anarchy and for what? Because you needed hope and change?

McCain at the VERY least LOVED this country. He would have put Country first. I’d have preferred someone with much more conservative values but Frick! He’s still better than the eye of the storm we are in now.

Think, Dems.

Who’s gonna pay your bills when the worker bees stop working?

Feb 20, 2009 - 9:29 pm 110. Tex Taylor:

I thought what he said, “YES WE CAN!”

Are we sure he didn’t say, “EAT MORE SPAM!”

Feb 20, 2009 - 9:31 pm 111. JohnInCA:

“Stimulus is a proven strategy, and despite the unprecedented condition of the economy, a coordinated global strategy is the most sure way to defend the market economies from collapse.”

DS

———
Stimulus is a proven strategy? Are you kidding me? I challenge you, DS, to tell me one time (just one) when a large government stimulus plan has ever worked. Most recent scholarship shows that the New Deal prolonged the Great Depression. Gerald Ford tried stimulus in the 70’s and it didn’t work. Bush tried it just last year and it didn’t work. Japan tried it all throughout the 90’s and it didn’t work.

Do you really want a proven strategy? Supply-side tax cuts have a wonderful track record for stimulating the economy. Coolidge-Harding tax cuts, JFK tax cuts, Reagan tax cuts, Clinton capital gains tax cuts and the Bush tax cuts all stimulated economic growth. Ireland cut corporate taxes and it led to huge economic expansion. This is indisputable. Try doing a little research.

And when you say “unprecedented condition of the economy” I have to laugh. Unprecedented? The recession of the early 80’s was worse than the current “crisis” using any metric you wish to measure it by. Unemployment, GDP contraction, inflation, interest rates. Take your pick. Fortunately, we had a president at the time who didn’t run around like Chicken Little yelling “crisis”. We had a President who understood that optimism plays well on the American psyche, but even more than that he understood that high taxes and government handouts were the last thing you do if you are trying to stimulate the economy. Obama’s policies are the only thing that will probably turn the current situation into an unprecedented economic crisis.

Feb 20, 2009 - 10:03 pm 112. TonyUSA:

President Obama knows what he is doing. It was his and many others plan from the get go. I see these articles like they believe that somehow he is misguided and that he just doesn’t have a clue about how to run things. Those articles are scary because they declare America has been truly dumb down by the marxist party. The truth is Uncle Sam is not getting stimulated but terminated with hardcore determination. So to the marxist radicals the blood letting is to make Uncle Sam healthy again or so they want you to believe and not be alarmed. Remember George Washington. Don’t worry “It’s going to get worse before it gets better”, we are told but like “change” and “hope” they most certainly won’t tell you what “better” means. It means the end of the USA and the beginning of a more “humane communism”. In a world where man is fallen from God and totally deprave that utopia of communism never comes but it ends in brutal totalitariansim. People do you even know for a fact if he is a natural born citizen if a citizen at all? Do you forget who are his family friends? If the Lord wills, we need to politically organize fast or this is really the end. Recalls are effective but you need a solid replacement who is not a RINO.

Feb 20, 2009 - 10:41 pm 113. Fitz:

To comments #19 and #20. There is no God.

Feb 20, 2009 - 10:50 pm 114. Ken Kious:

This is obviously an echo chamber for those who distrust Obama. I’m a small business owner who does trust him to be our leader at this time. The man is brilliant and he knows how to adapt. I shudder to think where the economy would be now if McCain/Palin were attempting to deal with this unprecedented crisis.

Feb 20, 2009 - 10:59 pm 115. Notabot:

How long did it take Illinoisan’s to realize how corrupt their Governor Blago was? They elected him twice!

Now can you imagine how long it will take the entire country to realize how corrupt the former Illinois Jr. Senator is?

The crisis Biden warned us of is coming. Or did it come early?

Feb 20, 2009 - 11:03 pm 116. gerald F.:

Part of little Barry Obambie’s problem is not only his very thin resume. But also the plain fact that Mommie Dearest Pelosie and Pappy Reid WON”T let little Barry out of the yard to play. (Just one other theory worth looking at)
Saddly enough. by the time people wake up and realize they are not smelling coffee. But the burning of constitutional rights on all levels as well. Obama is not a President. HE’S A GLORY MONGER whose in love with the fact that HE WON!

Feb 20, 2009 - 11:12 pm 117. EEAnderson:

All this right wing hysteria is truly awe-inspiring. Obama has proposed some very sensible measures for stabilizing the economy, including some special attention to stabilizing real estate values. In the go-go years when all those predatory mortgages were being written, I don’t recall reading any moral objections raised by free market zealots. Moral considerations only come into play, apparently, when the suckers who signed on for those loans are offered a little help. Turns out the whole collapse was entirely their fault, not the fault of the lendors who didn’t check their incomes, didn’t require down payments, and didn’t emphasize the fact that the rate those borrowers could barely afford was bound to rise to levels they could not afford. Because the borrowers were wicked, in turn, it now behooves a moral nation to punish them. If that means dragging everyone else’s real estate values down still more by flooding the market with foreclosed properties, so be it. Guys, look, take a Valium, wait 15 minutes. Now think about what happens to YOUR money when real estate values stabilize and the market begins to turn around. That’s right. It’s good for your investments, home value, 401Ks, and all the rest. Relax. You can be in favor of Obama’s plan for completely selfish reasons. And you can’t get more capitalistic than that.

Feb 20, 2009 - 11:31 pm 118. Rachel Peepers:

Let’s face it, Obama and his brain trust know very well the deleterious affects His Wastefulness and accompanying cockamame Stimulus Package will have on the country as a whole.

To dem Dems, though, this is the price responsible, bill-paying Americans must pay for losing the election. Put another way, to the Democratic victors, I mean voters, I mean victors and voters, go the spoils.

Truth be told, Obama and his merry men who take from the rich and give to the poor haven’t the foggiest idea how to solve the economic mess the Democratic Party (Barney Frank in particular) caused by forcing Freddie and Fannie to make loans to credit-challenged deadbeats.

Out of this sour lemon of a national crisis, though, Rham, Nancy, Harry and the other merry men decided to make some lemonade.

In other words, using a cool trillion in the guise of the housing/Wall Street crisis, they set out to buy low income, high volume future slacker votes. Although these knaves don’t always cotton to the value of hard work, they do know the color of money.

And, like all great, but nefarious deeds, the scheme was so simple yet so simply devious only a room of Democratic lawyers could have hatched it (did hatch it). Plus, it’ll probably prove incredibly and Democratically effective when election time again rolls around.

All the Dems had to do to set the wheels in motion was keep all Republicans out of the bill writing process.

Which they did. Without the mainstream press uttering a peep (at least the ones who aren’t already formally on the great one’s payroll).

Consequently, the Democrats were able to make sure almost a trillion dollars goes to the folks that need it most, I mean that they need most; the lemmings that elected them just a month ago.

So if you’re a slacker, Obama is providing you all with your own personal golden parachutes. Hey, this redistribution of wealth thing really works, albeit in a corrupt, cynical, bloated kind of way.

It will work because virtually (3 Republicans signed up with this Devil of a deal) all the money in the package will go where it was designed to go. To Obama cheerleaders. How do they exclude the rest you may ask. As any lawyer worth her salt will tell you, the devil’s in the details.

In point of fact,lower educated, lower income, high volume Democratic voters will find this bill the greatest gravy train since Democrats voted themselves free healthcare. From Barack’s Stimulus Plan, Democratic voters will reap huge rewards (just for pulling the Democratic lever).

So, my good man, if you’re a slacker, deadbeat or both, and also a Fannie or Freddie mortgage recipient who didn’t realize timely payments were due every month, you have a lot to look forward to.

Barack will ignore your irresponsibility, excuse your non-payment indolence, and give you a cool newly minted 5% loan rate, while demanding rich people use their tax money to pick up your new loan costs. Moreover, as Eric Holder recently pointed out, black (94% Barack) voters deserve this red carpet treatment more than anyone else because “White people are cowards who refuse to live in segregated neighborhoods”.

“Eric, you have such a way with words”.

This Barack melting pot, I mean money pot also includes tidy pay outs to first time home buyers born of the deadbeat culture, too. If you’re a Dem voter, who says you can’t have it all?

But that’s not all.

Even if you’ve been making your Fannie or Freddie mortgage payments, loan officer Obama hasn’t forgotten you, either.

Just tell us you don’t think you can keep up those timely payments (for whatever reason) and the new government will modify your loan down to a figure you can deal with. Golly, maybe you can afford $400 a month instead of the $1,400 adjustable you signed up for.

And from then on, you just pay principle, no interest. Sir Obama wants to make sure you realize how much he values your vote.

Of course, you may ask, “Hey, can my friendly 35 year old big brother and wife, who both work sixty hour weeks, have a baby and a $2200 mortgage from the local town bank, get the new 5% loan rate? It would really save them a bundle”.

“Are you crazy”? I can hear Barack shouting. “Of course not, check the fine print. Not only did they vote for McCain, but they don’t qualify”.

“May I ask why, Your Annointed one”, I summon the courage to ask?”

Then the brown eyed handsome man, sitting in his huge new dark walnut desk, looks up at lil’ ole’ blue eyed Rachel, simple headed college coed that she is, gives her a frown and exclaims, “look Missy, your brother doesn’t get a piece of this money pie because he never had to suffer though a bill collector’s calls, never had a car repossessed, probably thinks of Freddie & Fannie as a good name for a white singing group.” And wouldn’t vote for me if my name was, Bob, because my face doesn’t look like the other faces on all the money in his wallet.

“But, Your Eminence, sir Barack, my brother, California tan and all, did vote for you”.

At this point, Rahm walked in and said President Barack was needed at another important meeting.

As the great one gets up to leave, though, Barack, left me with one more thought. “Honey, he said, this money tree only grows in Freddie and Fannie deadbeat soil, It’s not for you people.

“Thank you, Mr. President, sir. At least now I understand the Stimulus Bill. I guess it was never really meant for people like me.”

Smiling, Barack shot Rahm Emanual, his chief of staff, a knowing glance and cracked, “Out of the mouths of babes.”

Feb 20, 2009 - 11:36 pm 119. WRM:

I’m not sure yet if our president really cares about the future economic prosperity of our country more than he is intent on pushing his liberal agenda. He is either brilliantly playing out his socialist agenda or he is ignorantly allowing the democrats to force their agenda on our country… I hope the American people wake up in time whatever the case.

Feb 20, 2009 - 11:38 pm 120. Delia:

118.,

Wow. That was an awesome read. You nailed it, sista!

Would it be racist of me to say, “There goes the neighborhood!”
?yes?

GOOD!

lol

Feb 21, 2009 - 12:49 am 121. Just Bill:

Obama was asked by Time what should the voters consider failure on his part by the 2010 elections. His response:

On [domestic] policy, have we helped this economy recover from what is the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression? Have we created jobs that pay well and allow families to support themselves? Have we made significant progress on reducing the cost of health care and expanding coverage?
On foreign policy, have we rebuilt alliances around the world effectively? Have I drawn down U.S. troops out of Iraq, and have we strengthened our approach in Afghanistan — not just militarily but also diplomatically and in terms of development?
And outside of specific policy measures, two years from now, I want the American people to be able to say, “I feel like the government’s working for me. I feel like it’s accountable. I feel like it’s transparent. I feel that I am well informed about what government actions are being taken.”

Without significant changes in a number of directions, he’s never going to hit those goals. We should should hold him and his party accountable and vote accordingly.

Feb 21, 2009 - 12:54 am 122. Delia:

Hold up!

So far we have “Paying taxes is PATRIOTIC” [but LIMO libs or anyone who knows Barack need NOT apply].

-And, SLUMMING er ethnically ‘diverse’ living is another thing us lowwwwly middle-class should acclimate to [whilst the multi-million-dollar mansion dweller dems would never DREAM of such a thing].

Fudda-more…we should all watch our gas usage, our heat usage and our…well breathing in and out usage but let’s not include the Elite Dems in that because…well…they are ELITE after all! They breathe rarefied air and piss in perfectly appointed piss pots and belch in mult-cultural rainbows….

YAYYYYYYYYY DEMS!

Oh my. I feel a sick headache coming on…

*HORK*

Feb 21, 2009 - 12:56 am 123. Randall:

I didn’t care for Bush in that I didn’t agree with some of his policies. I didn’t like Obama from the beginning because he sounded like a suit full of hot air and vague spin-I like him a lot less now. My 401K had been devalued by two-thirds by the time I closed it out before christmas to pay on my mortgage. I don’t blame Bush or Obama for that. I do blame the policy makers and congress. The mortgage problems I am having are the result of job loss and a massive heart attack from last year. Without the heart attack I could have been back to work in three months not unemployed for eight. I had not had an issue with my mortgage for twenty years until now. I guess I am one of the folks Obama may or may not be helping. I really don’t want a handout but I would like the mortgage company to figure out with me a way to stay in my home at a rate that my new conditions could afford. I didn’t go for one of the wizz-bang re-financing schemes that the loan officers were pushing but a boring fixed rate that I qualified for and had 30% equity. I’ve found that a loan modification means your monthly payment goes up. If I have trouble with my current payment how is increasing it going to help the situation. My situation cannot be unique but, like most folks posting here, I never expected anything like this to happen. Job loss in the construction field is normal and predictable but the medical problems come out of the blue. The thrill was when I had to pay back one week of unemployment because I had been dropped due to an inability to work. I lost eight months of wages-three due to layoff and five due to illness. I expect to lose a lot more in the next four years with or without Santa-Obama. This is my problem and I will find my own solution to it as I always have-just maybe everyone else should try that to.

Feb 21, 2009 - 2:25 am 124. JL:

This is all BS. Look, I’m very sympathetic towards the idea that irresponsible behavior should not be rewarded. Except that this was not caused by irresponsible behavior on the part of mortgage borrowers.

This crisis was caused by irresponsible behavior by the Federal Reserve. The federal reserve increased the Target Federal Funds Rate from 1% to 5% in a series of 16 consecutive increases over a 2 year period from June 2003 to June 2005 (because they don’t have a clue about predicting long term inflation). This is the steepest rate increase in the history of the Federal reserve. Mortgage rates and rates for other loan types followed suit (like they always do).
This hits everybody, not just Sub Prime. Sub Prime is the most visible, because it’s the most risky loan type, but everybody has to pay the increasing interest costs regardless of type of loan. (In the case of fixed rate loans, the losers are the bond owners). Overall cash is just disappearing everywhere. If anybody is curious where all the money went? They went to stocks and oil.

And guess what? Somebody has to pay those gigantic increases in interest costs. And who is going to do that? Well, everybody and anybody who has adjustable rate loans in anything or uses bonds as security is going to have to come up with real money that has to be made in the real world by selling real products and services. This predictably leads to lower real estate prices, lower consumption, higher unemployment, lower tax revenue. So people overall has less liquidity. BUT they still has to pay their increasing interest cost. This vicious cycle continuous until September 2008 when (predictably) people, banks and governments give up because they run out of ready cash.

This crisis was caused by an acute liquidity shortage by borrowers. If the idiots in charge were serious about blunting the devastation, they should have dealt with the problem directly. Issue treasury bonds (the oil barons has to place their money somewhere) and Pay back 6-12 months worth of 4 percent interests to anybody with an adjustable loan or a fixed rate loan bond. That is the only way the crisis could have bin averted. Anything else is fantasy.

All this nonsense with stimulus packages, Bank bailouts and so fourth does not address the one and only place that needed to be addressed: Borrowers lack of liquidity.

Mind you that the root of the problem has yet to be addressed. The root of the problem is not the banks, it’s the borrowers. It’s not because people are not producing. It’s a short term cash shortage. This shortage is right now being converted into over capacity followed by lower production. So the result of a temporary liquidity problem caused by bad monetary policy is now turning into a long term recession.

Feb 21, 2009 - 2:32 am 125. John Gooley:

According to Fred Barnes? Are you serious? This is who you are getting your authority directives from? Hey Fred, go back to shooting ducks with Karl and Chris Wallace- I wonder how how effective Karl was getting those conservative shills to give him some more air time on ‘Fixed News’, so he can spin some more and save himself and fellow ‘Bushies’ indictments- Personally I am leading the way in the fight against the ‘Fairness Doctrine’ (spooky music insert), because I am having the time of my life watching and reading and listening to the GOP and conservative whack jobs having mental breakdowns- Who am I? What’s going on? Who do I listen to? What does Rush say? Sean? Glenn Beck? Jennifer Rubin? Take a breath. Paranoia is the first step of identity crisis.

One month. That’s all it has been. You had 8, long years to screw a lot of things up.

Feb 21, 2009 - 4:06 am 126. Jeff:

This media outlet hired Joe The Plumber to cover events in Gaza, correct?

Feb 21, 2009 - 4:51 am 127. Peg C.:

“The public did not vote for a European-style social welfare state. They did not vote for an acceleration of the failed economic policies of the last year of the Bush administration. And they certainly did not expect a trillion dollar spending bill with only double digit unemployment and inflation to show for it.”

Jennifer, the public DID vote for this. Many, many of us knew exactly what would happen and were screaming about it well over a year ago. What we are facing now is EXACTLY what this narcissistic do-nothing with his cabinet of tax cheats and Chicago crooks intend and no one can holler they didn’t vote for it if they voted for him. THEY DID.

Feb 21, 2009 - 5:02 am 128. formwiz:

No, Bambi, don’t turn back. Run the country into the ground. Then, hopefully, this country will wake up and get rid of the Pelosicrats, Alinskycrats, and RINOs and start voting in people who actually care about the country.

Feb 21, 2009 - 5:12 am 129. stopthepresses2:

“The government’s view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
Ronald Reagan 40th president of US (1911 – 2004)

“Free government pic-a-nic basket, Boo-boo.”
Barack Obama 44th president US (1961- )
Read more President quotes at, http://stopthepresses2.blogspot.com/search/label/Yogi%20Bear

Feb 21, 2009 - 5:12 am 130. Fred:

“Thanks to the Obamanation, I have been laid off, my life savings are in ruins, I will probably lose my home and guess what…I can’t find a job.”

He’s only been in office for a month and you’re blaming him for your lifetime of professional failure? It’s HIS fault you have no savings to get you through? It’s HIS fault you can’t afford the home you bought? See if this resonates with your republican friends…

Feb 21, 2009 - 5:19 am 131. Steeple:

Randall 123, poignantly stated. I’ll keep you in my prayers.

JL 124, you give a thoughtful response. But I would have to differ in that three other critical things occurred as well: 1) the role that Fannie/Freddie played in loosening standards and underwriting non-conventional paper as Raines et al were allowed to capture private market incentives while using implied/real US govt backing 2) allowing the banking and shadow banking system to leverage up their balance sheets to very unstable levels and 3) the rating agencies such as Standard and Poors, who used to have a reputation for conservatism while providing some measure of discipline, becoming completely corrupted by the mortgage securitization process. The worst tranches of Alt A loans were those originated in ‘06, after the interest rate hikes had already taken affect. This seems to be like a classic credit bubble but on steroids. And those who we are asked to trust in govt did anything to stop it, as they were all drinking the Kool Aid from the real estate boom punch bowl.

Feb 21, 2009 - 5:25 am 132. Fred:

“Well, the dribbling morons who voted for hope and change got the change and the hope went flying ‘bam! zoom!’ right under the bus. Congrats, idiots. Now you get to hear “Crisis! Crisis! Crisis!” ad nauseum. Ain’t it great? Don’tchya just feel lifted up?”

Just imagine that Obama is talking about Iran and the Muslims – then you’ll sign over everything you have to him – and you’d like his asss on Broadway. let’s face it, what scares you idiots is that Obama is trying to help the middle class – and you can’t stand that. But you know what? America sees right through your hysterics (thus the polls). America knows that Neo-COn zionistas like J-Rubin – who has absolutely NO finanacial background to speak on issues like this, have for years supported the people and the policies that brought us here…with nary a peep. J-Rub never had a problem spending $15 bil a month for purple thumbs in Iraq! J-Rub would never whine like this about ever increasing – and unaccountable Pentagon budgets. You guys think you’re so smart? The rest of America sees you as VILLIANS. You want to call Obama a marxist? fine. But accept the fact that you are the despised class – the new crack addicts on the block – the feared and the hated. J-Rub quotes Fred Barnes? Who cares what Barnes has to say? he’s as despised as J-Rub and the villians who brought us this mess…

Feb 21, 2009 - 5:26 am 133. djc-illinois:

The Beginning of the End

Obama’s scheme to bring Socialism to America has become apparent. It’s extremely simple and, even though he’s only been in office a month, what he’s accomplished to date probably makes him unstoppable in reaching his aim.

The first step is to spend as much as possible, creating huge deficits, so as to establish the case for tax increases. Be sure that as much as possible of that spending is directed toward what Saul Alinsky referred to as “Have Nots” and is of a nature that those “Have Nots” quickly come to feel entitled to that spending. Unfortunately this step has already been accomplished by way of the so- called “stimulus” bill which does not stimulate but does, in fact, fully accomplish the foregoing.

The second step, which will probably come shortly after the 2010 mid-term elections, is to drastically raise taxes on the “Haves” (Alinsky again) and, at the same time, relieve the largest possible majority of voters of any tax burden whatsoever.

I am sure many voters thought that, despite his Marxist-laden background, there would be no way Obama could enforce Socialism on an economy as large and complex as the US and that, furthermore, all our “checks and balances” would block any such effort anyway.

When the second step is done, by way of a filibuster proof Congress sometime in 2011, it’s over. At that point, Democrats are entrenched in power and America becomes a Marxist-Socialist country –it won’t even take Obama three years. Americans have made a catastrophic mistake in electing this man as our president. We now have to think about what, if anything, can be done to stop him.

Feb 21, 2009 - 5:28 am 134. Black Saint:

Obama is not going to change! He is an socialist his economy policy is based on taking from the ones that will work, will save, will obey the law and give it to the ones that do none of the above!

Every American citizen should stop paying their mortgage and taxes until the insanity of rewarding people for stupidly, corruption, crime and stops, this includes the 20 to 30 million invading horde of Illegal Aliens that has already destroyed Calif. and is turning the USA into the same type of Third World cesspool they have built & sustained for 100 of years in their own countries and now fleeing.

Feb 21, 2009 - 5:44 am 135. Black Saint:

Obama is not going to change! He is an socialist his economy policy is based on taking from the ones that will work, will save, will obey the law and give it to the ones that do none of the above!

Every American citizen should stop paying their mortgage and taxes until the insanity of rewarding people for stupidly, corruption, crime stops, this includes the 20 to 30 million invading horde of Illegal Aliens that has already destroyed Calif. and is turning the USA into the same type of Third World cesspool they have built & sustained for 100 of years in their own countries and now fleeing.

Feb 21, 2009 - 5:50 am 136. masha:

What! A diet of hopey dopey speeches is not enough!? Wasn’t this guy the Messiah?

Feb 21, 2009 - 7:18 am 137. TOhio:

Anyone who is as angry as I am about what is happening to our country under the liberal leaders – Obama, Pelosi, Reid, need to fight back!

Here’s what I am doing and I hope that all of us will do this en masse:

1. Stop watching all liberal news – CBS, NBC, ABC, MSNBC, CNN. They are all propaganda machines for Obama & company. We will make their ratings dive!!!! Instead watch Fox News so that their ratings increase and this will make a statement about how we are not going to listen to their left-wing, sugar-coated lies anymore.

2. Cancel all liberal newspaper subscriptions. At the top of the list is the New York Times and Washington Post. If you live in a Democratically-controlled city, then you probably have a left-wing paper. Cancel the subscription. Let the liberals support their propaganda.

3. Write or call your Senator and Congressperson and let them know that you are against all that Obama is doing. They do pay attention to the volume of calls and letters that they get.

4. Donate to anti-Obama, anti-Socialism, anti-Liberalism organizations. One of the leading ones now is the NationalGOP trust. We need to use whatever money that we still have to fight. The gop trust address is nationalrepublicantrust.com.

Do not be disheartened! We can and will win this but we all need to fight!

Feb 21, 2009 - 7:36 am 138. fred:

You are asking a Red Diaper Baby to rip out of the sinews of his very being the worldview of socialism. Is he going to decide that Frank Marshall Davis gave him bad advice? Is he going to ignore the cultural Marxism of the one person he claims to have been the most influential person in his life: his mother? Does anyone honestly believe that he has it in him to deviate from his comfort zone?

I never thought so. He suckered most of the Middle Muddle. The Left-of-Center who voted for him are getting exactly what they wanted, and there is much more to come. Hell, he even scored votes from so-called conservative ranks (these people have the strangest rationalizations for voting for him!)

I would be extremely surprised if he were to reverse course and adopt Clinton’s pragmatic program (which was more or less forced on him in 1994).

Feb 21, 2009 - 9:04 am 139. Daniel Gabriele:

You all are so damn pretentiously righteous. It’s doesn’t take courage, intelligence, wisdom, or compassion to make abrupt, hackneyed, bland, and predictable commentaries on a commentary on politics. Seriously, get a life.

Feb 21, 2009 - 9:14 am 140. fred:

Hey, Daniel Grabriele, scram on back to Fwaaance and enjoy your socialist sh*thole. Your arrogant, Gallic insult fell flat.

Feb 21, 2009 - 9:35 am 141. Alana:

He’s not going to reverse course. Destroying the economy and the middle class IS his course.

Feb 21, 2009 - 9:36 am 142. Meryl:

139….what we are, Daniel, is angry. And afraid for our country.

The offer at the bottom of the column says, “write a comment” and (since you apparently don’t grasp the context) that is what people are doing.

YOU are so damn pretentiously self-righteous. Get a clue.

Feb 21, 2009 - 9:40 am 143. venividivici:

Billy:

This Rubin lady really is a moron. She said Joe the Plumber and was actually trying to make a serious point. God help us. BTW Jennifer, you hypocrite, the markets are testing the OCT lows now, which happened under Bush, because he was not doing anything to stem the crisis. So in your infinite wisdom you want Obama to do nothing too? Hmmm, that sounds about right. Let the “markets” handle it. Do you realize we have a $3 trillion hole in our banking system? Unless you have that cash lying around, and you can recapitalize the banks by yourself, then it is going to take more, not less, gov’t intervention and Fed policy. Period.

Yes, because the markets in October were CLEARLY reacting to the exact economic situation of October, they weren’t looking forward at all to conditions in the future. That’s really the liberal view of markets isn’t it? Well, it also happens to be exactly wrong.

As a matter of fact, too, there is $3 trillion lying around in various private entities, only the government keeps propping up the banking system to the advantage of the current bank owners and won’t make them take the losses they need to. Same goes for the auto industry. The idea that the government has to ‘do something’ is caused by a lack of understanding of the way financial markets work.

My prediction is that the S&P 500 will not see the levels it was at before Obama got elected again during his 4 years in office.

Feb 21, 2009 - 10:10 am 144. David S:

@97. AtheistConservative:

“Stimulus is a proven strategy,”

When, exactly, was it proven?

Each and every time, stimulus sparks recovery – and recovery only stalls when spending is restrained as the author is suggesting…

You know how many times tax cuts have been proven to reverse recession? Every time it was tried.

Perhaps as a short term measure. Deficit financed tax cuts are a losing effort in the longer run.

“If one accepts the notion that any economic change that follows a tax change must have been caused by the tax change, one would have to conclude that tax increases promote stronger investment growth than tax cuts.”

What’s the point even talking to people like you? You lie to yourself first and everyone else second.

The point of talking to me is to learn something. You don’t study the history of the crises you cite in any depth. Look at the details. Stimulus was the single thing that most restored economic growth and job creation, reversing the Great Depression. Stimulus in the early ’90’s gave Japan a fantastic infrastructure boost – but a drop in stimulus slowed growth.

Doing nothing is a poor option. Tax cuts are not enough to reverse a recession this severe. The best option, proven by history, is to employ government to keep the economy from contracting, and put people to work improving the nation’s economic infrastructure. Private industry is shrinking – unemployment is accelerating – only government is in a position to take action. You may refuse to acknowledge this reality, but that will not stop the nation from doing what is necessary.

Peace.

DS

Feb 21, 2009 - 10:26 am 145. Dave H:

How can we expect Obama to make policy that at least recognizes simple market principles when there’s no indication that he ever had any education in market principles? An Ivy League education does not cover the “pros” of capitalism, only the “cons.” Moreover, when you “deliberately seek out the Marxists professors”, which Obama in his book says he did, just exactly when and where would he pick up ANY understanding of market principles. The man admits that his education was Marxist, how can we expect him to do anything but what his Marxist professors talked about, i.e., seizing on the “panic” of an economic downturn to overthrow capitalism.

Govenrment stimulus IS a proven tactic: for destroying capitalism, not for making it recover from a recession. Historical facts: the average recession is 10 months; the average recession “fixed” with massive government spending is 10 years and counting, as the U.S. in the 1930s and Japan in the 1990s proved. History is real. Learn it.

Feb 21, 2009 - 10:32 am 146. David S:

@137. TOhio:

Anyone who is as angry as I am about what is happening to our country …. need to fight back!

We did. That’s why Obama got the job over McCain. Your advice is pretty funny, though. Watching Fox News is not going to do much good – you are better off listening to actual news from NPR and BBC. Heck, even John Stewart is more accurate than Fox.

We have already written our congresspersons to let them know we support their efforts to reverse the deepening recession. We also thanked our departing GOP Senator for his years of service – and sent him packing. We understand how difficult the task ahead will be, and we want to make sure the USA will succeed.

We already donated millions of dollars to Obama, helping him to win a historic victory, sweeping away the GOP stranglehold on our Executive branch.

Do not be disheartened! We can and will win this but we all need to fight

Thank you for the encouragement. I hope you will join in the fight.

Peace.

DS

Feb 21, 2009 - 10:56 am 147. venividivici:

Pro-stimuloid nutbags need to read this:

http://www.theweek.com/article/index/93473/The_selfdefeating_stimulus

‘”Stimulus is not part of the language of economics,” says Arizona State University economics professor Edward Prescott. I talked to Prescott just hours before Obama set the presidential pen to the stimulus bill. “There is an old, discarded theory that’s been tried and failed spectacularly, which is where that language of stimulus comes from.” The stimulus bill, Prescott told me, “is likely to depress the economy.” Not long after Obama wowed the nation with his keynote address at the 2004 Democratic National Convention, Edward Prescott traveled to Stockholm to receive a Nobel Prize, shared with his frequent collaborator Finn Kydland, “for contributions to dynamic macroeconomics: the time consistency of economic policy and the driving forces behind business cycles.” Which is to say, Prescott is one of his discipline’s most influential and authoritative voices on precisely those technical issues behind the stimulus debate.’

In point of fact, the dynamic described in this interview is probably why the economy falters when “stimulus” is taken away. None of the people who should be investing want to because they don’t know if “stimulus” will be coming back.

But what do those guys know? They’re only the last people to win Nobel Prizes specifically for macroeconomics, which is what we’re allegedly discussing.

Feb 21, 2009 - 11:42 am 148. Delia:

132. Fred,

I *AM* the *MIDDLE CLASS*

If you have somehow construed that I’m ‘wealthy’ then you have very poor comprehension skills.

Now go tell your rich, limo-libs your same rant towards THEM.

DOY!

Feb 21, 2009 - 11:49 am 149. Jeff Perren:

“Doing nothing is a poor option.” David S

And few are advocating that. Few are even advocating that the government do nothing, which would be better than what it is doing. They should be doing a great deal – lowering spending by leaps and bounds, lowering capital gains taxes to stimulate investment, repealing the 100 years of legislation that has steadily erased liberty and hobbled economic progress, etc. etc.

“The best option, proven by history, is to employ government to keep the economy from contracting, and put people to work improving the nation’s economic infrastructure.” David S.

History shows that a free people, where the government is focused on protecting the rights of life, liberty, and voluntary trade creates conditions that lead to superior economic results over societies which suppress these rights. East vs West Germany, Pre-WWII Japan vs Post WWII Japan, Britain and the U.S. in the 19th century vs the centuries prior, Brazil vs Venezuela, etc., etc.

Apart from the practical benefits, a free society and a free-market economy is the only moral solution. Anything else is based on the principle that the government owns you and can dictate your economic activity, which necessarily leads to dictating all your choices to the degree it can.

Your philosophy is based entirely on false moral premises and selective factual evidence.

Feb 21, 2009 - 11:50 am 150. David S:

@147. venividivici:

In point of fact, the dynamic described in this interview is probably why the economy falters when “stimulus” is taken away. None of the people who should be investing want to because they don’t know if “stimulus” will be coming back.

Prescott is a rather fringe character, as his ideas on WPA employment are counterfactual. Abusing statistics is not good scholarship. FDR’s New Deal reversed the declines of the Hoover administration, and marks the start of the golden age of American prosperity. The New Deal clearly was a boon for the nation in all respects.

“Infrastructure investment is one of the best ways to face the international financial crisis due to its long term positive effects on the productivity of the country, Nobel Prize in Economics for 2004, Finn Kydland, stated Tuesday.” Kydland shared the prize with Prescott.

The dynamic that they describe explains how the Fed can be such an efficient initiator of bubbles and recessions.

But what do those guys know? They’re only the last people to win Nobel Prizes specifically for macroeconomics, which is what we’re allegedly discussing.

They know plenty – and they disagree about the best way forward. One advocates tax cuts, and one advocates spending. Democrats are using both. The fact is that unemployed people don’t drive economic growth – whether they work for private industry or for government, employed persons drive the economy. Stimulus works – the mix the Democrats passed is a pretty fair middle between these two Nobel winners’ prescriptions.

But what do those guys know?

Peace.

DS

Feb 21, 2009 - 1:01 pm 151. venividivici:

150. David S:

Prescott is fringe? Got any proof? As I said, he won the Nobel Prize, which is not something “fringe” characters typically accomplish. What he’s saying is that changes in fiscal policy that introduce uncertainty and reversibility into economic matters do more damage than good over the long-run and don’t even have the intended impact in the short-run as individuals immediately adjust their behaviors. For example, I refuse to spend money even though I’m gainfully employed and have disposable income, precisely because I don’t want the economy to recover while Obama’s in office and I think I’ll get better deals (e.g. lower tax rates under a future Republican administration would mean that my after-tax expenditures go further) under a different set of policies. Address that issue or don’t bother responding because I’m not interested in any of your opinions about “fringe” versus “non-fringe” economists, as if that were the substantive issue under debate.

By the way, your Kydland quote was given to a Peruvian newspaper and is clearly addressing the local infrastructure in South America. I’m not necessarily against infrastructure spending on true public goods, but even then you need to design the program correctly to achieve maximum impact. Obama’s payoff to unions built-in to the stimulus package, as well as the large amounts of dollars spent on items better suited to be part of yearly appropriations bills surely isn’t the best design.

So, net-net, you didn’t address any of the points in the interview, despite your rhetorical hand-waving.

Feb 21, 2009 - 1:36 pm 152. stoptheleft:

Obama is the puppet of the real market killer – George Beelzebub Soros is the market killer. He’s a freak and a megalomaniac who will do anything to bring down this country. Old Beelzebub Soros is poised and ready to bring us down. He is a despicable arrogant demon the likes of which this world has never seen. If you want to stop the economic meltdown, start with Beelzebub George.

Feb 21, 2009 - 2:53 pm 153. David S:

@151. venividivici:

Clearly Prescott’s notion of unemployment, the WPA and the role of FDR is skewered by a look at history.

I refuse to spend money even though I’m gainfully employed and have disposable income, precisely because I don’t want the economy to recover while Obama’s in office and I think I’ll get better deals (e.g. lower tax rates under a future Republican administration would mean that my after-tax expenditures go further) under a different set of policies. Address that issue or don’t bother responding because I’m not interested in any of your opinions about “fringe” versus “non-fringe” economists, as if that were the substantive issue under debate.

You have just identified one large reason that tax cuts don’t really help the economy. People don’t spend the money. That is why a true stimulus has to include large amounts of spending. Your refusal to spend now won’t prevent others, including the government, from spending to keep the economy moving. You have just demonstrated that a tax cut is not the best economic stimulus.

Given the failures of the last few Republican administrations, what makes you think that a future Republican administration is likely, or that the economy during one would provide a better return than under a Democrat? Historically, investing during Democratic administrations is a better way to maximize your returns.

I’m amused that you don’t want the economy to recover – that’s a rather short-sighted view, and thankfully not a mainstream one.

Peace.

DS

Feb 21, 2009 - 4:02 pm 154. myth buster:

The Reagan Revolution is dead. I got over that over a year ago. We Conservatives can’t be living in the past, hearkening back to Reagan. We need a new Revolution. Huckabee/Jindal 2012 for a new Revolution.

Feb 21, 2009 - 5:04 pm 155. myth buster:

As for the theory of surplus value: it is BS! You can’t honestly argue that machines have no impact on production or that the workers own the machines when they did not pay for them.

Feb 21, 2009 - 5:07 pm 156. venividivici:

153 David S:

Neither the article you link nor the article it links mentions Prescott’s theoretical objections to the “stimulus”. Either answer his points or stop responding with tripe and irrelevant nonsense.

Feb 21, 2009 - 5:12 pm 157. venividivici:

David S,

I’ll make it easy for you since you don’t seem to understand the implications of Prescott’s theories, which are most decidedly NOT about how to measure the unemployment rate during the Great Depression, for crying out loud.

Did private industry hire more or fewer workers as a result of the New Deal? In other words, did the New Deal “save or create” ANY private industry jobs? If the answer is no, why would we want in any way, shape or form to emulate those policies, as opposed to finding policies that DID create private industry jobs?

Bonus question: If the problems we face now were the result of leverage, how is shifting leverage from individual and corporate balance sheets to government’s balance sheet going to help?

Bonus bonus question: Even if shifting leverage from individual and corporate balance sheets helps in the short-term, how does it help in the long-term? Is there any way to stop de-leveraging from happening “eventually”?

Bonus bonus bonus question: Even if the problems we face are due to the fact that individuals and corporations are deleveraging “all at the same time”, is there any policy that can prevent this “herd behavior” of simultaneous deleveraging in the future?

You clearly don’t have a clue.

Feb 21, 2009 - 5:26 pm 158. JL:

David S.

Even though you are a fool, I agree that now is a perfect time to develop the infrastructure.

I must admit though that I have a hard time seeing the connection between building roads and solving an acute liquidity problem. Are the roads going to be build by companies who only hires people with subprime loans?

By the way do you have a job?

And if you do, is it by any chance in the government?

Feb 21, 2009 - 5:37 pm 159. Iago:

There are two political persuasions in the USA; call them Constitutionalists and Manifestoists. The Constitutionalists have historically ended slavery, smitten the tyrants, and created the strongest and most free society and economy in the world.

The Manifestoists are followers of an alien philosophy created by a smelly old German named Marx. The Manifestoists have tried to seize the USA for at least one hundred years but they have always failed. There have been a long string of Marxist slugs running for office: Debs, Thomas, Hall, Wallace, McGovern, Gore, and Kerry. Now Obama has succeeded through charisma and little else. Obama had absolutely no qualifications for the office of the president except he sound good when he has a teleprompter.

Obama has been clear in his Marxist orientation and goals; change the Constitution and spread the wealth.

The Manifestoists are joyfully destroying the American economy and the savings and retirement funds of Americans in order to make everyone dependent on the Manfestoists for support and assistance. Anyone who is not willing to support the Manifestoists will be punished.

As long as I am going to be punished anyway, I might as well make it worth their while.

Feb 21, 2009 - 7:01 pm 160. zanne:

David S.=team obama

Feb 21, 2009 - 8:36 pm 161. Delia:

158. JL:

“And if you do, is it by any chance in the government?”
~

LMFAO! *crickets*

BEST COMEBACK EVER!

Feb 21, 2009 - 11:04 pm 162. AntiBushConservative:

The biggest sin of GWB was to give in with the Reid and Pelosi’s First Stimulus Package.

This puppet President Obama is just perfect for Reid/Pelosi Tandem to do everything they wish…. a WELFARE STATE AMERICA.

Feb 22, 2009 - 3:12 am 163. Yvonne McClain:

# 137 TOhio……Anyone who is as angry as I am about what is happening to our country under the liberal leaders – Obama, Pelosi, Reid, need to fight back!
Here’s what I am doing and I hope that all of us will do this en masse…..
1. Stop watching all liberal news – CBS, NBC, ABC, MSNBC, CNN.
2. Cancel all liberal newspaper subscriptions.
3. Write or call your Senator and Congressperson and let them know that you are against all that Obama is doing. They do pay attention to the volume of calls and letters that they get.
4. Donate to anti-Obama, anti-Socialism, anti-Liberalism organizations. One of the leading ones now is the NationalGOP trust. We need to use whatever money that we still have to fight. The gop trust address is nationalrepublicantrust.com.
Do not be disheartened! We can and will win this but we all need to fight!

United States of AMERICAN’S we can do what #137 suggests,not tomorrow or sometime next week, do it TODAY IMMEDIATELY!!!

Feb 22, 2009 - 6:33 am 164. David S:

@157. venividivici:

I’ll make it easy for you since you don’t seem to understand the implications of Prescott’s theories, which are most decidedly NOT about how to measure the unemployment rate during the Great Depression, for crying out loud.

I’m well aware that measuring unemployment during the Great Depression is a tangential issue to the core of Prescott’s theories – but it is also a very clear example of his intellectual dishonesty.

Did private industry hire more or fewer workers as a result of the New Deal?

The New Deal most certainly contributed to a recovery in private employment – private industry undoubtedly hired more workers as a result of the New Deal.

Bonus question: If the problems we face now were the result of leverage, how is shifting leverage from individual and corporate balance sheets to government’s balance sheet going to help?

The problems we face now were not the result of leverage alone. Shifting some leverage to the government would at least free remaining private capital.

Bonus bonus question: Even if shifting leverage from individual and corporate balance sheets helps in the short-term, how does it help in the long-term? Is there any way to stop de-leveraging from happening “eventually”?

Again, leverage is not the sole problem. Allowing the government to hold assets until their value recovers allows private industry to focus on new opportunities.

Bonus bonus bonus question: Even if the problems we face are due to the fact that individuals and corporations are deleveraging “all at the same time”, is there any policy that can prevent this “herd behavior” of simultaneous deleveraging in the future?

The best way to prevent a bubble like the one that just burst, is to properly manage the Fed funds rate. Holding the rate at 1% for an extended period was a major factor in creating the bubble. There are well-understood methods to regulate this rate, which were completely ignored during the housing bubble of 2003-2005. Economic difficulties were inevitable once we diverged from the historically verified optimum. Correcting these policy mistakes, and re-instituting some of the FDR-era financial regulations that were recently removed, would be sufficient to prevent most large bubbles and busts.

You clearly don’t have a clue.

Your opinion on this matter is rather unimportant. Your understanding of how we got here, and how to get out, is lacking.

Peace.

@158. JL:

Even though you are a fool, I agree that now is a perfect time to develop the infrastructure.

I may be a fool, but I’ve got more sense than the GOP. Thanks for acknowledging the wisdom of infrastructure spending as economic stimulus.

I must admit though that I have a hard time seeing the connection between building roads and solving an acute liquidity problem. Are the roads going to be build by companies who only hires people with subprime loans?

One entity that seems to be able to raise funds is the US government. Until credit markets are fully stabilized and recovered, it is intelligent policy to use this credit facility to plug the gap in the US economy. That directing this spending to infrastructure is a good long-term investment is merely a bonus.

By the way do you have a job?

You’re off-topic.

And if you do, is it by any chance in the government?

I have worked in both government and private industry. Once again, off-topic. Try to stay focused. Trying to make this issue personal only proves the weakness of your argument.

Peace.

DS

Feb 22, 2009 - 1:04 pm 165. venividivici:

I’m well aware that measuring unemployment during the Great Depression is a tangential issue to the core of Prescott’s theories – but it is also a very clear example of his intellectual dishonesty.

Provide a link where he has used data “dishonestly” or stop making accusations.

The New Deal most certainly contributed to a recovery in private employment – private industry undoubtedly hired more workers as a result of the New Deal.

Again with the assertions without backup. I hope you do better providing data when you’re trying to convince your boss of a certain course of action.

The best way to prevent a bubble like the one that just burst, is to properly manage the Fed funds rate.

You’re jumping around from fiscal to monetary policy now. I presume you’ve read John Taylor’s op-ed in the WSJ that said this very thing.

Your opinion on this matter is rather unimportant. Your understanding of how we got here, and how to get out, is lacking.

How ironic, I was just thinking the same thing about you.

Feb 22, 2009 - 3:23 pm 166. venividivici:

Again, leverage is not the sole problem. Allowing the government to hold assets until their value recovers allows private industry to focus on new opportunities.

I missed this one. Leverage is absolutely the core problem. Read Irving Fisher, whom even the uber-stimuloid-supporting Krugman has acknowledged as probably the most accurate analyst of deleveraging and its impact.

It’s almost as if you’ve imbibed every single fallacy of economics into one gigantic cocktail of moronitude.

Feb 22, 2009 - 3:27 pm 167. venividivici:

One last point. Obama’s stimulus and the related financial market impact has been the best thing for my portfolio over the past two months possible. I’ve been shorting the market and making a good deal, so don’t think that I want him to stop screwing up the economy, necessarily. I just hope he lets me keep half my profits. But “stimulate” away, DS, “stimulate” away and I’ll keep shorting.

I refuse to be a victim to your (and those like you) stupidity and failure to learn from history. I’m just trying to help people who don’t have the knowledge and wherewithal to short the market not be a victim, too. Think of me as a public servant who actually isn’t getting paid by the government.

Feb 22, 2009 - 3:32 pm 168. Cybergeezer:

Obama’s incompetence and ignorance is bolstered by the incompetent, ignorant rants (articles) by the left wing “professional commenters” posting here. The Ship of Fools is very entertaining.

Feb 22, 2009 - 4:18 pm 169. David S:

@165. venividivici:

Provide a link where he has used data “dishonestly” or stop making accusations.

Prescott … contends that Roosevelt made it [the Depression] worse — but refuses to count as employed those Americans who worked for the Works Progress Administration, which hired millions of the jobless and built high ways, bridges and public buildings still used today.

The New Deal most certainly contributed to a recovery in private employment – private industry undoubtedly hired more workers as a result of the New Deal.

Again with the assertions without backup. I hope you do better providing data when you’re trying to convince your boss of a certain course of action.

Here are the numbers, if you insist. Certainly looks like Roosevelt did okay.

@166. venividivici:

I missed this one. Leverage is absolutely the core problem. Read Irving Fisher, whom even the uber-stimuloid-supporting Krugman has acknowledged as probably the most accurate analyst of deleveraging and its impact.

Deleveraging only occurs when the bubble bursts – if you can prevent the bubble, you can prevent the deleveraging that follows when it bursts. Driving the bubble was the fed funds rate.

Monetary excesses were the main cause of the boom. The Fed held its target interest rate, especially in 2003-2005, well below known monetary guidelines that say what good policy should be based on historical experience. Keeping interest rates on the track that worked well in the past two decades, rather than keeping rates so low, would have prevented the boom and the bust. Researchers at the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development have provided corroborating evidence from other countries: The greater the degree of monetary excess in a country, the larger was the housing boom.

@167. venividivici:

One last point. Obama’s stimulus and the related financial market impact has been the best thing for my portfolio over the past two months possible. I’ve been shorting the market and making a good deal, so don’t think that I want him to stop screwing up the economy, necessarily. I just hope he lets me keep half my profits. But “stimulate” away, DS, “stimulate” away and I’ll keep shorting.

I’m glad you’ve found a way to turn lemons into lemonade. You keep shorting, and I’ll keep working to rebuild the economy. It’s a deal.

Peace.

DS

Feb 22, 2009 - 6:22 pm 170. donttreadonme:

David S.
Amateur hour personified. Here’s some wikipedia homework, comrade:
Look up Exemption 23A letters.(goodbye 14:1 leverage limits)
Look up over the counter derivative trading, specifically “synthetic” derivatives (the true weapons of financial mass destruction)
Also, as for FDR, look up “removal of price controls in 1946″ which is when the economy really took off – it wasn’t WWII, skippy.
Look up Elliott Wave, Kondradief Cycle(sp), look up Fourth Turning generation theory.
Try to grasp the significance of the repeal of the Glass-Steagal Act.
Lastly, use common sense – where does the stimulus money come from? The private sector. If we have a budget deficit, then we are not spending money – we are borrowing money and transferring it. We are bringing demand forward. We are filling the bucket from one end of the lake and emptying it at the other end. This crisis is simply one of gravity – total debt in this country is at 300% of GDP; it must be tamped down. This is a once every 70 years or so deflationary credit implosion. This is bigger than one administration, and well beyond the fix of the current one. Obama’s plan WILL fail. To be fair, any “gov’t plan” which defies gravity will.
If Alfred E Obama was smart (and he clearly isn’t) he would set up relief centers in major metro areas in case times get much worse, as I fully expect; he should allow the bad banks to be put down and have their good assets auctioned off to the healthy banks(of which there are many).

Feb 22, 2009 - 7:16 pm 171. David S:

@170. donttreadonme:

I’m aware of the complete lack of oversight by the Fed and the Executive. I’m well aware of the New Deal, and the true relief that it made possible from the dismal years of Hoover, as well as the revisionist history that has become so popular lately regarding the efficacy of government spending in reversing economic collapse.

You can come up with whatever theories you like about the economy under FDR, but the jobs numbers are pretty clear. FDR rebuilt America, and the evidence surrounds us in the public facilities built under his administration. It wasn’t only WWII, it was also the recovery that FDR helped to engineer after four years of constant failure by his predecessor, which produced the most lasting expansion in the US economy in history.

Bringing demand forward is precisely what is needed to reduce the negative impact of a recession. Certainly it is bigger than one administration, but the vast destabilization has primarily been a result of the Reagan Revolution – deregulation, massive government deficits, and tax cuts upon tax cuts – much the same pattern that preceded the last Republican-led Depression under Hoover, but worse because of the scale of the current debt.

I don’t believe Obama can make this problem go away in a fortnight, or even four years. There are systemic problems with our health care systems, our school systems, our utility systems and transportation infrastructure. Maintenance and upgrades have been deferred for decades, and clearly now is the time to make the changes necessary to provide economic prosperity for coming generations.

You doubt that Obama is smart, but you’ve hardly seen enough of his handiwork to really make that pronouncement. Even bitter partisans agree that he is an extremely intelligent, well informed and astute person, with an ideal temperament for the office. I am looking forward to eight years of real progress, and the USA making some headway after treading water in the trickle down economy for years.

Defying gravity, as demonstrated by the Wright brothers, is quite possible with a little stimulus. A controlled landing is much better than the alternative.

Peace.

DS

Feb 23, 2009 - 12:39 am 172. Nine-of-Diamonds:

“Defying gravity, as demonstrated by the Wright brothers, is quite possible with a little stimulus. A controlled landing is much better than the alternative.”

Q: What do you call a president who tries to prevent a financial crisis with massive public works projects, ill-conceived “stimulus”, and protectionist policies that alienate Europe?

A: Herbert Hoover.

Evidently David is either lying or knows nothing about the period he’s commenting on. Hoover at least had a modicum of real experience prior to assuming the presidency, and his fiscal initiatives (which were anything but “conservative”) failed. Being an Affirmative Action candidate, 0bama is much less intelligent than Hoover was, yet thinks he can successfully implement Hoover’s failed program in a 21st Century setting. Interesting times we’re in for, IMHO.

And for anyone who wants to look beyond David S’s laughable FDR hagiography, might I suggest “The New Dealer’s War” and “The Forgotten Man: A New History of the Great Depression”:

http://www.amazon.com/Forgotten-Man-History-Great-Depression/dp/0066211700

http://www.amazon.com/New-Dealers-War-Within-World/dp/0465024653/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1235395834&sr=1-1

Feb 23, 2009 - 5:33 am 173. view from afar:

peace david smokes what to be so peaceful and ignorant?…HELLO? Anyone home?
Yes I realize that I am off topic, because you went off topic and started this FDR mess…
…your numbers are from where? For instance, if I create a table stating that FDR created no jobs( not the point, and he probably created some jobs, but every Prof I had tended to belittle FDR’s efforts and congratulated the beginning of the war), and that Reagan created 100% full employment( no one ever has)and post it on line, that makes the info true? I want lots of data on these figures, like who crunched these numbers? What was the author trying to prove? Who is behind this report? Where are the numbers from? You are constantly calling everyone liars and uneducated, I can NOT believe that you would dare to post a link that unsupported, but wait, that would mean all these other people are right about you, you’re clueless! lol on the working thing…oh did you check out the links of #172?

Feb 23, 2009 - 6:56 am 174. Michael:

This economy isn’t unprecidented. It isn’t any worse than Reagan inherited when he took office. It was caused by government intervention when the Democrats controled it. That is proven, documented and damning. The evidence is in, the discusion is over. (I sound like a Democrat don’t I? LOL) The Republicans fault lays in the fact they didn’t take the heat to make changes because they lacked the backbone to take the political heat.

The only thing the government should have been doing was stopping the large number of monopolistic combinations that have reduced competition.

So many socialists hated the decades of the 80s and 90s with their unpresidented prosperity. They despised it. It filed them with horror. The idea that individuals were being successful without government intervention to slap them down made them apoplectic.

That’s why they are so enraptured about this president, this congress and this economic dip. Here is a chance to make the world (don’t mistake that fact) dependant on govenment largess, control and discipline.

Of course this economy wasn’t nearly bad enough to force such monumental changes as destroying the basis of the American economy for the last 200 years. Thus the trilions being spent that will reduce the US to a second world country and beggar our children and grandchildren. This is a good thing in many of the true believers eyes.

Feb 23, 2009 - 7:08 am 175. David S:

@173. view from afar:

…your numbers are from where? For instance, if I create a table stating that FDR created no jobs( not the point, and he probably created some jobs, but every Prof I had tended to belittle FDR’s efforts and congratulated the beginning of the war), and that Reagan created 100% full employment( no one ever has)and post it on line, that makes the info true?

Perhaps you have not heard of the http://www.stats.bls.gov” rel=”nofollow”>Bureau of Labor Statistics? They are the authoritative source for employment data. You can create your own table full of lies, but the BLS backs up the data I referenced.

I want lots of data on these figures, like who crunched these numbers? What was the author trying to prove? Who is behind this report? Where are the numbers from?

Try visiting the site I linked to. Ben Waggoner created these charts straight from the BLS data. He is trying to prove that there is a correlation between the political party of our President and job creation, which is of course undeniable. The US government is the ultimate source of the info. It’s not really complicated.

You are constantly calling everyone liars and uneducated, I can NOT believe that you would dare to post a link that unsupported, but wait, that would mean all these other people are right about you, you’re clueless! lol on the working thing…oh did you check out the links of #172?

I am not constantly calling everyone liars and uneducated. I do call out folks that lie, and I will critique an argument that lacks veracity. If you don’t want to be called a liar, the best solution is to stick to the facts. Most of the people here who don’t agree with me make personal attacks on my intelligence, not realizing that it demonstrates the weakness of their own arguments.

Peace.

DS

PS – I checked out the links. More revisionist history by avowed partisans. Thanks for demonstrating the veracity I have come to expect.

Feb 23, 2009 - 7:20 am 176. Ms. Attitude:

I have no time to read all of the comments, I must work to pay for my lazy comrades.

One question: Do the people like Steve P and David S really believe what they are saying? If so, wow, stupidity is alive and well!

Feb 23, 2009 - 9:43 am 177. Nine-of-Diamonds:

Nice. David fails to address any of the points about Hoover, whines about revisionism, smears people as “avowed partisans” lacking in intelligence, and then lectures us peasants on civility. That’s what I love about the lO!-botomized contingent here: they are utterly immune to irony, or a sense of shame. This hypocrisy goes a long way towards explaining why David & friends identify with the Narcissist-in-Chief. It’s invigorating to be part of the proglodyte vanguard. One set of rules for the Red State proles (who, I suppose, must still pay their taxes on time), and another for them.

And Ms. Attitude, quite a few of the David’s out there know exactly what they are doing. Remember that to Marxists, economic failure is a feature, not a bug. In country after country they have manufactured crises, destroyed the middle class, and then posed as “saviors” with their statist solutions.

Feb 23, 2009 - 2:26 pm 178. David S:

@176. Ms. Attitude:

I have no time to read all of the comments, I must work to pay for my lazy comrades.

One question: Do the people like Steve P and David S really believe what they are saying? If so, wow, stupidity is alive and well!

Once again, a personal attack instead of a rebuttal. You’d do yourself and your comrades a favor if you’d keep such inane thoughts to yourself.

Peace.

DS

Feb 23, 2009 - 3:41 pm 179. David S:

@177. Nine-of-Diamonds:

Nice. David fails to address any of the points about Hoover, whines about revisionism, smears people as “avowed partisans” lacking in intelligence, and then lectures us peasants on civility.

Typical. I hadn’t even responded to your post yet, and you claim I failed! Read the quote below from President Truman for a little insight into what the Depression looked like to those who lived it.

PRESIDENT TRUMAN’s SPEECH of 1948, sums up the Great Depression and its aftermath quite nicely—

“….You have a choice between the Democratic Party and the Republican Party. Within the memory of most of us here, a clear record has been written that shows how much difference that choice can make. The Republicans wrote part of their record from 1921 to 1933. They led the country to depression, poverty, and despair. It is easy to forget what the black days of the depression were like. Let us recall a few, just a few of the bitter facts.

In 1932, after 12 years of Republican bungling, more than 12 million men and women were unemployed. In 1932 the average worker in manufacturing industries was making 45 cents an hour – if he was lucky enough to have a job…. The working men and women in this country could not do much to help themselves, because the strength of their unions had been broken by the reactionary labor policies of the Republican administration.

The Republican bubble burst in 1929, and when it burst: There was no minimum wage to cushion the blow. There was no unemployment compensation to carry the working man’s family along. There was no work relief program to help people through the crisis. But the party of privilege was ready to carry big business through the crisis. It created the Reconstruction Finance Corporation for that purpose. The banks, the railways, the insurance companies – they got relief, but not the American people. For the unemployed, it was Hoovervilles and soup kitchens. Veterans were encouraged to go into business for themselves – selling apples. That is the Republican record.

[T]he Democratic Party began to build prosperity for business, labor, and agriculture. We wrote into law the right of the working men and women to organize in unions of their own choice, and to bargain collectively. We put a floor under wages. We outlawed child labor. We created a great insurance system to protect working men and women against the hazards of unemployment and old age. We wrote into law a system of price supports for farm products, so that the bottom would not drop from under the farmer’s income the way it did in the 1920’s. We put a curb on Wall Street speculation, and stopped the money changers from gambling with people’s savings.

With these reforms and many others, the Democratic Party brought the country to the greatest period of prosperity ever known in the history of the world…. And business hasn’t suffered too much under the New Deal! Corporations had a loss of $4 billion in 1932. But in 1947 they had a profit of $17 billion, after taxes. These same corporations – these same corporations now claim the Democrats are hostile to business. If I were in their shoes, I would want some more of that kind of hostility….”

Really, the record of the GOP is hard to argue with. If you favor tax cuts, unemployment, poverty, recession and depression, the GOP is your party.

Peace.

DS

Feb 23, 2009 - 4:05 pm 180. ITF:

“If I were in their shoes, I would want some more of that kind of hostility….” Hard to argue with? Impossible to argue with.

If I were the (Democrat) CEO of Citi, I’d be happy with the Congressional _Democrat passed_ TARP, and _All Democrat_ passed “Stimulus” too. The sticky fingered slime in the Democrat party used 45 billion bucks appropriated from all those workers you claim to care about, guaranteed another 301 billion in Citi’s bad paper, and today started talking about taking _40_ percent or so ownership of Citi in trade for all that.

Great math, morons. Citi’s market cap at the bell today was all of ten billion. 45 billion plus 301 billion in guarantees is a bargain for a share worth 4 billion, But what the hey, it wasn’t their money they were throwing at their merchantilist bedmates. And fools who believe the Dumbocrat party line will defend this larceny, then pinch off the usual brain-dead “Peace” loaf to impress everybody with how ’60’s cool they are.

Imbecile.

Feb 23, 2009 - 7:51 pm 181. Cybergeezer:

The Stock Market; Which just so happens to be the indication of health and wealth of the United States, as well as most other countries around the world, has been showing it’s confidence in Obama and his administration since his election. For you soldiers of Obama, whom seem to ignore or believe the Market doesn’t mean anything, you will find out, sooner or later, how important it is. Then who are you going to blame? Your suicidal activism for him will do nothing but cause your own destruction. The Anglo-Saxon work ethic shall recover; We’ve done it before.

Feb 24, 2009 - 5:00 am 182. Nine-of-Diamonds:

[SIGH]. So as evidence David cites the DEMOCRATIC VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE from the period in question. I can’t wait to hear him trumpeting his intelligence again – what a genius.

Take note that this is further evidence of my point re: proglodytes’ tendency to appeal to authority and argue based on emotion/assertions. Also note that he still fails to prove that 0bama is NOT following in the footsteps of Hoover’s and FDR’s failed policies. Plus, look how invested he is in his manichean, binary view of politics. Inconceivable, isn’t it, that someone can criticize FDR and Messiah-Boy and simultaneously be disgusted by Republicans’ fiscal indiscipline (which I am). Hence, the rambling about the GOP towards the end is sheer stupidity. Looks like David’s enamored of Negro-Jeebus because his administration promises to make the same mistakes as the GOP even faster, and at a greater order of magnitude.

“”[W]e might have done nothing. That would have been utter ruin. Instead we met the situation with proposals to private business and to Congress of the most gigantic program of economic defense and counterattack ever evolved in the history of the Republic. We put it into action. . . . We determined that we would not follow the advice of the bitter-end liquidationists and see the whole body of debtors of the United States brought to bankruptcy and the savings of our people brought to destruction.”

FDR? Truman? Bzzzt-wrong! Herbert Hoover, following the failure of his 0bama-esque attempts to stimulate the economy in 1932. Take note, boys & girls – this is an example of supporting your assertions with historical quotes, rather than using them to appeal to authority.

Feb 24, 2009 - 8:06 am 183. CRAPGIVER:

IT REALY INSPIRES ME, TO EXPRESS, MY CONCERNS, WHEN, I READ, ALL THE FINGER POINTING, AT EACH OTHER, WHICH, BY THE WAY, IS EXSACTLY, WHAT OUR COMMON ENEMY,WANT TO ACCOMPLISH, WE ARE IN A REAL MESS, AND THE ONLY ONE,THAT CAN GET US,OUT OF IT IS OUR CREATOR, AND I DON’T MEAN YOUR MOMMY AND POPPY, I’M TALKING ABOUT THE ONE, WHO REJECTED, THE JEWS, TO GIVE YOU AND YOUR FAMILY AN OPPORTUNITY, FOR AN ETERNAL LIFE, THE ONE WHO KNEW YOU AND YOUR FAMILY, BEFORE, THE FUNDATION, OF THE UNIVERSE, AND HIS LIVING WORD JESUS CHRIST, THE ONE THAT THANKS, TO THE ATHEUS JEWS, CONVINCE YOU, THAT SHOULDN’T BE NEITHER IN SCHOOL,NOR IN ANY COURT OF LAW, FOR OTHERWISE, THEY WERE TO BE OFFENDED,YOU SEE THEY WOULD GET OFFENDED, BUT YOU DID NOT GET OFFENDED, WHEN THEY PARADE, ALL THEIR WORTHLES, RELIGIONS,AND IDOLS, BEFORE YOU, YOU JUST WENT ALONG FOR THE RIDE, AS TO NOT OFFEND THEM, SO NOW THE CREATOR OF ALL THINGS, WILL ALSO, LET THIS COUNTRY, GO DOWN THE TOILET, AS IT HAPPEN, TO GERMANY, THE SAME NAZI JEWS, THAT DESTROY GERMANY, WILL FINNISH UP THE UNITED STATES, UNLESS THIS COUNTRY REPENTS,AND TURN AROUND, ASKING OUR CREATOR, FOR FORGIVNES AND GUIDANCE, AND GET ALL EASTERN EUROPEAN JEWS,ON A BOAT AND SENDEM, TO ISRAEL, SO THAT GOD HIMSELF CAN JUDGE THEM IN ISRAEL.IS GOING TO BE THE ONLY WAY, CONFISCATING EVERY THING THEY HAVE STOLEN, SINCE 1900. SO THAT THEY CAN LEARN, ALSO ON HOW TO TRUST THE LIVING GOD THEY CRUSIFYED, 2000 YEAR’S AGO

Aug 30, 2009 - 6:21 pm 184. FIRELINE1945@AOL.COM:

IF YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT WHO IS THE HIDEN CAMOUFLAGE,WORLD ENEMY SEARCH, ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING THAT MR. BENJAMIN H. FREEDMAN DID THROUGH OUT HIS LIFE,TOGETHER WIT MR CONLEY MCGINLEY, OWNER OF THE COMMON SENSE NEWS PAPER IN NEW JERCEY.PLEASE FOLLOW UP http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvhL5r3VkK0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvhL5r3VkKO

Aug 31, 2009 - 1:16 am

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