Pajamas Media

35 Comments

1. sean birnie:

Hotels make good targets since they tend to have a limited number of exits, in order to discourage unwanted or moonlighting guests. My guess is that terrorists, sorry I mean militants/insurgents/practitioners or whatever other dumb euphemism gets used when these words become synonymous with terrorist, will be looking for places where large numbers of infidels can be easily trapped and slaughtered. I hope they’re not reading this because it seems to me that subway trains stopped in tunnels would be perfect for this purpose. They would be easy to defend from the security forces and nobody could escape, leaving the killers plenty of time to do their evil work.

I don’t know if Mumbai has a metro system but my city does and I use it several times a day. At busy times one train carries as many as 500 people. I’m afraid that the tactic used in Mumbai is going to be copied in other places. The only viable defense is an armed population, fat chance of that here in Eurabitopia. Lambs and slaughter come to mind.

Of course there are many other soft targets with limited access, for example, Art Galleries, not only full of trapped people but lots of priceless infidel artifacts to destroy. The possibilities are endless. Let’s hope these SOB’s lack imagination because apparently 500 jihadi terrorists have been trained to commando level by the Pak secret service; ISI.

So, ten down, only 490 to go.

Dec 8, 2008 - 1:54 am 2. susan:

stealth sharia is far more dangerous. The muslim conquest of the world will happen with the pen and not with the sword, with slow islamic demands being accepted.

Remember the story of the frog in the boiling water. Educate yourself.

Dec 8, 2008 - 5:05 am 3. Donald:

This is the smartest thing I’ve ever read on PJ.

Dec 8, 2008 - 5:28 am 4. fred:

Time for the people of the liberal democracies to man up and start carrying concealed weapons. I for one will make sure that mine will go with me at all times as I shop during this holiday season. And I hope like hell I never need it.

Dec 8, 2008 - 5:31 am 5. cedarhill:

Very scary stuff. With enough teams, one can overwhelm the first responders in an area. The impact of multiple attacks in stages is what should concern everyone. For example, first attack police stations then hotels then hospitals. During all the chaos, hijack a radioactive waste disposal vehicle and blow it up creating a dirty bomb and, depending on location, contaminate an area so large the city center would just be off limits for years.

Dec 8, 2008 - 5:40 am 6. Austin:

The West must rearm its citizens.

Dec 8, 2008 - 5:55 am 7. cedarford:

The economic damage alone from this attack is estimated at $10 billion.

Ten guys. Killing 170 people and setting small fires and a couple of bombs inflicted 10 billion in damage?
Right!
That reminds me of the FBI basking in the glow of TV cameras stating one bale of pot washing up on the beach had a “street value” of 12 million dollars.

*********************
The only viable defense is an armed population, fat chance of that here in Eurabitopia. Lambs and slaughter come to mind.

No, I wouldn’t put “the private citizen gun-lover” as an important barrier preventing or stopping a terorist attack.

1st you have deterrence – the idea that if you are found sponsoring terrorists you risk full out war.
Then, you have what India lacked. A layered defense with well trained people with good communications, trained people and good management in intel, law enforcement, aware citizens pointing out suspicious behavior, private security, and finally specialized military or paramilitary police squads specifically trained to fight a high level lethal threat (like SWAT).

The ranks of gun owners have many who oil their favorite piece and dream of how they could stop a terrorist attack in a fierce firefight and end up with their photo and an “America’s Greatest Hero” caption on the cover of the NRA’s “The American Rifleman” magazine. The government, even here, are very against citizens, except for situation of immediate need for self defense – rushing in ad hoc to shoot up who they think are “Evildoers”. For the following reasons:

1. Such armed citizens would be acting as solo operators, outside any chain of command, out of any communications or control of 1st responders.
2. Imagine you are a cop and hear gunfire, see bodies stewn about – and the next thing you see is a wild-eyed person running at you or at a cluster of civilians waving a pistol. Not knowing he is a “heroic armed private citizen” – you drop him.
3. You think you are a hero and get your trusty AR-15 and drop a guy you see wearing a ski mask and carrying a submachine gun – with a beautiful long-distance shot that you believe will be discussed as a feat of penultimate skill for the next century. Then you see police helicopter and sharpshooters converging on your position, because you just killed a cop responding to the scene and didn’t know it because you lacked any comms or command & control warning all others that 4 cops in ski masks were moving to reposition. You drop your gun, but odds are that pissed off cops, taking no chances, wax your ass. And no one will really object.
4. You do identify a good target, but in a situation where it is not self-defense, you fire 12 pistol shots. One actually downs the “evildoer” but you were so focused on the terrorist that you didn’t see the crowd behind him. 3 of your other shots hit civilians. One grazes the leg of a man, but another shoots half the face off a young woman, and the last rips up the liver and one lung of a 11-year old boy..he bleeds out before he gets to the hospital.
The cops arrest you. You chuckle and repeat the gun-lovers favorite “Well, I’d rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6″. A few days later, in jail, your lawyer says that 8 people have seized your savings and home by court order lien, that as a lawyer he still gets paid…but your kids in college are out of luck and your wife lost all her credit..and any purchases until the lawsuits are resolved must go through a court officer paid 60 bucks an hour to see what are “necessary expenses”. Your personal liability insurance doesn’t cover it. And you also have the criminal charges for killing the kid and wounding two, one seriously..that may be filed despite your protestations that it is all the “terrorist’s fault”.
5. The “armed citizen” is fairly useless in most terorist attacks, which use bombs and surprise. It may be of marginal value if you are in a hotel or other place with lots of people and you have no opportunity to retreat..As for airlines and cruise ships, security experts have concluded that armed private citizens out of the control of the captain & crew would be absolute disasters endangering others and continue to strongly endorse banning autonomous gun-wielders who would react on their own, and unpredictably, to a terrorist or hostage situation and could make a bad situation far, far worse. No ship or airplane captain wants “the armed citizen” on board. Neither does the public. As a holder of a permit, I agree. Bad idea.

Dec 8, 2008 - 7:00 am 8. cedarford:

Cedarhill – During all the chaos, hijack a radioactive waste disposal vehicle and blow it up creating a dirty bomb and, depending on location, contaminate an area so large the city center would just be off limits for years.

One of the great failures of the Bush Administration was failure to dispell rank public ignorance about “dirty bombs”. Too many in the public are in absolute ignorant panic about dirty bombs, thinking that they are “as bad” as a nuke bomb, ignoring that no nation has one because they are useless.
A fission nuke bomb has 1.6 million curies with a half life longer than a day, per KT of explosive power released. 9 to 32 million curies spread. A dirty bomb is unlikely to be more than a few hundred curies. Unless several sources are found added together, miss the rad detectors, then even 5,000 curies would be unexpectedly large.
Civil defense says if you recover from a nuke, you hose and wash contamination down to storm drains or the sewage plant for holdup. With a small “dirty bomb” you might crap up some sewage tanks, even harbor or river muck, lose a building or two to rad contamination blown in until adequate decon can be done – but the city would not “be uninhabitable for years”.

The main problem, which the Bushies refused to address, was educating the public out of ignorance and their tendency to panic not knowing what else to do in a terrorist attack. If they know about dirty bombs, they would know to stay inside, shut off ventilation, close windows, and await instructions, relax, catch up on some conversations, maybe surf the ‘net. And stay put until people can wand you and your immediate area with a rad detector..or if that doesn’t fly because too many people are panicking, walk or drive home..treat your car as potentially contaminated and your clothing. Strip and put all your clothes in a garbage bag before entering your house, take a precautionary shower, washing twice. And contact your local FD and see if they can free someone to scan your car and trashbag full of clothes…

hijack a radioactive waste disposal vehicle

There really is no such thing as a “radioactive waste disposal vehicle” normally on the roads, certainly not in any city..readily available for “hijacking”. When weapons or certain high level wastes are moved, they are accompanied by highest security. In shielded, tamper-resistant containers. No defense is foolproof, but if such a shipment is ever attacked, the attackers aren’t going anywhere..except to the morgue.

Dec 8, 2008 - 7:27 am 9. Clide Readwell:

The $10 billion number probably means the losses amounted by a an international financial hub being shutdown. Not physical damage.

Dec 8, 2008 - 7:28 am 10. Laura:

Liberal, self-loathing white politicians are the reason there are so many Moslems in the West today. Immigration should be stopped. Mosques that incite violence or preach inflamatory vitriol should be shut down. Illegals or non full citizens should be deported. Those moderates who wish to live in the West should be reminded of their minority status and be treated as such. Perhaps they should pay the jizra if they wish to remain in their host countries. Young people should be indoctrinated with Western values and be taught tolerance and respect of non-Moslem religions. Of course, all this is too little and too late.

Dec 8, 2008 - 7:33 am 11. sean birnie:

“stealth sharia is far more dangerous. The muslim conquest of the world will happen with the pen and not with the sword, with slow islamic demands being accepted.”

Well said Susan but don’t forget the violent jihad is the stimulus that’s intended to make us fall into the “moderate” embrace of the stealth Jihadis. Let’s not succumb to either, they are both part and parcel of the same strategy, Jihad, Dawa and Fitna.

Dec 8, 2008 - 8:16 am 12. Asif:

what a load biased rubbish…it is funny how people see the world as they see fit. No one mentions the thousands of Muslims and Christians slaughtered by right wing Hindus…nor the Indian governments involvement in the bomb blasts inside Pakistan. until their is no justice in the world there will be no piece ,,, remember my words. There are over a billion Muslims in the world and the number is growing through birth and conversions… It takes two hands to clap

Dec 8, 2008 - 8:50 am 13. Citizen70:

We are facing a tough foe in Islamic terrorism and need to get tough ourselves, both as a nation and as individual citizens. Our problem as a culture is that we have adopted a victim mentality and that results in panic whenever we’re faced with challenges. Witness the financial panic occurring right now, especially among our politicians (notice I didn’t say “leaders”). I’m not saying things aren’t bad financially but, in my opinion, not enough people are thinking clearly and taking tough positions.

Dec 8, 2008 - 10:23 am 14. Laura:

12 Asif,

You omitted the following every day occurences: Jews being slaughtered in Sderot and attacked in the streets of Paris; Black Africans being sold into slavery; women having acid thrown into their faces in Pakistan and Afghanistan; Nigerian and Kenyan Christians, Thai and Philipino Buddhists being macheted and their body parts strewn on the roads. Hypocracy, Rioting, Intimidation, Violence, Hysteria are the Five Pillars of Islam that are thriving today. The arrogance of the Islamic world is limitless and boggles the mind. Please go back to the bowels of the earth from when you came.

Dec 8, 2008 - 10:44 am 15. Trent Telenko:

cedarford,

I take it you are unfamiliar with the 1966 Texas Tower shooting in Austin, Texas and the arrival of armed civilians to engage the shooter?

Dec 8, 2008 - 11:55 am 16. susan:

TAKE NOTE PEOPLE

“There are over a billion Muslims in the world and the number is growing through birth and conversions”

everytime a muslim speak they always bring up the numeric subject.

They intend to subjugate only with the power of their numbers.

At that point there will be NO way out. Sharia will be imposed.

Do not befriend muslims, even the most moderate has this goal in mind.

Islam is made to subjugate through obfuscation and deceipt especially by the so-called moderates which have the same goals of the radicals.

Dec 8, 2008 - 12:11 pm 17. myth buster:

cedarford, why should people trust the police to protect them when they have failed in the past. Alas, I do not yet own a firearm, but if I did, I’d surely rather take my chances returning fire against a terrorist than waiting for the police.

Dec 8, 2008 - 12:44 pm 18. Thinking Person:

susan…That is some scary stuff you’ve highlighted in your posts! Made me do a little research on what exactly Sharia is. Not good news for the non-Muslim. That’s one reason I love this website. I’ve learned so much from the authors AND the posters. I do think this is required reading for anyone opposed to the Patriot Act.

Dec 8, 2008 - 3:00 pm 19. EgregiousCharles:

Cedarford has a valid and well-thought out list of problems with the armed citizen as a terror deterrent, but they don’t add up to what he thinks they do. One of them, “The “armed citizen” is fairly useless in most terrorist attacks, which use bombs and surprise”, actually demonstrates the effectiveness of the armed citizen; bombs have become the normal method since Israelis started arming the citizenry.

Shooting attacks were common before, because they’re generally much more effective and easier to arrange. E.g. two terrorists with a rifle and barely a plan killed 10 in the DC sniper attacks, but six terrorists with complex organization, offshore funding, and 1500 pound bomb killed six in the ‘93 WTC bombing.

The armed citizen makes an organized shooting attack like Mumbai impractical, because the organization gets disrupted up by random engagements with armed citizenry who look exactly like everyone else. And for random attacks, armed citizens can be the zeroth responders, well before the first responders, because they are on the scene before the attacks start. The total of Cedarford’s accurate list does not offset this in Israel or the rest of the world where it has been tried.

Now, there are other more difficult methods of terror attack that the armed citizen is ineffective against, but the Mumbai type organized shooting attack is one that cannot be carried out in Israel or parts of the US.

Dec 8, 2008 - 3:03 pm 20. susan:

thinking person, if you look at the path in every single muslim coountry (there are at least 50+) you will notice that people of different or no religion have a unequal status in front of the law, wether it’s literal (ie actually BY LAW) or a simple common behaviour of the muslim majority, it’s there ALWAYS.

Even Turkey where they are allegedly secular, you see constant harassment on christian people and they few/wrecked churches up to the point that when they murder christians or priests the population is totally indifferent.

Every country with a muslim majority or close to it is following that path. It’s not a matter of weapons, it’s a matter of allowing this cancer to spread.

Dec 8, 2008 - 3:15 pm 21. EgregiousCharles:

Actually on further thought I take back the “valid and well thought out” and “accurate” describing Crawford’s comments. His idea of the ordinary armed citizen apparently comes from Hollywood — running wild-eyed waving a pistol, chuckling about stray shots hitting innocents. I can’t say Crawford’s laundry list of armed citizen offenses is impossible but it’s certainly vanishingly rare.

Dec 8, 2008 - 3:42 pm 22. EgregiousCharles:

oops, I mean Cedarford not Crawford.

Dec 8, 2008 - 3:45 pm 23. rob:

Hello Asif,

Thank you for chiming in on the discussion.
Let us see, you start off with “what a load biased rubbish.” Hmmm, were you referring to the rest of your post?

Then you drop on us, this masterful “until their is no justice in the world there will be no piece.”

But, there is an element of truth in your post and the discerning readers have found it.

Thanks again.

Dec 8, 2008 - 5:41 pm 24. Judy, NYC:

if we are thinking of ways to protect ourselves from these nuts, get them out of our country. out. out. out of our universities. out of their tenure. out of our public buildings, hospitals, courts. no special consideration for muslims who cover their faces and cannot be identified. out of our lives. ba bye. it will be much harder for them to come back. in case they do, we should all be armed, and shoot them on sight. that’ll work.

Dec 8, 2008 - 9:32 pm 25. Bogdan of Australia:

I’m a bit lausy with the details, but I remember having red an article about a meeting between Third Reich’s Foreign Minister, Ribbentrop and a Switzerland’s Premier (forgot his name) after Germany had invaded France and began complaining to Swiss Government about them harbouring the fleeing Jews (small number of them for that matter). Responding to Ribbentrop’s threats, the Swiss Premier said: ” In the case your country had an idea of invading my coutry, take into account the fact that every second our adult citizen is armed with a long range hunting riffle which he can use with a great proficiency”. In mountinous Switzerland it wouldn’t be a laughing matter for Germans and they knew that too well…

Dec 9, 2008 - 4:37 am 26. Laura:

Having lived in Israel for several years, I was witness to soldiers and non soldiers (security, police) carrying weapons on a daily basis. It was a bit daunting at first, but I got used to it. At no time did I ever feel frightened or insecure about being around guns. On the contrary, it made me feel protected and safe.

Dec 9, 2008 - 5:50 am 27. belloscm:

This story, if true, is very disturbing.

I stayed at the Taj for almost 10 days in early October. While there were metal detectors and mandatory package checks at the lobby entrance (enhanced security measures were in effect), there were no armed guards or police on the hotel grounds or in the Gateway of India plaza directly across the street. No doubt such measures were considered to be bad for business.

In other words, there was absolutely nothing in place that would have deterred an armed assailant, to say nothing of an organized paramilitary assault.

How reckless and irresponsible of the Indian security officials and the ownership of the targeted hotels. The nearly 200 dead are as assuredly victims of Indian incompetence as they were killed by LET bullets and grenades.

Dec 9, 2008 - 11:33 am 28. Snoop-Diggity-DANG-Dawg:

“No one mentions the thousands of Muslims and Christians slaughtered by right wing Hindus…”

Really?

Dec 9, 2008 - 12:17 pm 29. Kristopher:

What happened to the Hindu minority in Pakistan?

Can you say the word genocide? I thought you could.

Dec 9, 2008 - 1:06 pm 30. enscout:

Educate yourself.
http://prophetofdoom.net/Prophet_of_Doom_Islams_Terrorist_Dogma_in_Muhammads_Own_Words.Islam

Dec 9, 2008 - 7:18 pm 31. Mike:

This should be mandatory reading for every lefty appeaser out there. There is only one way to appease them and that is abject surrender which seems to be happening now in Western Europe.
———————————————–
By the way, I hope all you rich liberals out there are going to pay a bunch of taxes because Joe Biden said it’s your patriotic duty to do so and I am waiting for my share of the free stuff Obama promised me.

Dec 10, 2008 - 7:22 am 32. Boondoggie:

Cedarford:

I guess your scenarios are constantly playing out in Israel, which is heavily targeted by terrorists and has an armed population?

I also wonder how many people in the Mumbai massacre were glad they didn’t have a gun when the terrorists were breaking down the doors to their hotel rooms?

>1. Such armed citizens would be acting as solo operators, outside any chain of command, out of >any communications or control of 1st responders.

As anyone that has spent any time at a gun range can tell you, most first responders are completely unprepared to defend citizens in this type of scenario. You can always spot the cops because they’re the ones doing their required yearly practice and aren’t nearly as comfortable with their guns as the hobbyists.

It is not the job of the police to protect the populace. It is the job of the police to track down the criminals and deter future crime by the threat of getting caught. Your concept of the police swooping in and taking out the terrorists isn’t very likely. 10 minute response times are considered reasonable. In NYC you get an automated attendant if you call 911 during a peak period. You won’t see SWAT deploy for a very long time. When seconds count, the cops will be there in half an hour.

>2. Imagine you are a cop and hear gunfire, see bodies stewn about – and the next thing you see >is a wild-eyed person running at you or at a cluster of civilians waving a pistol. Not knowing >he is a “heroic armed private citizen” – you drop him.

Anyone that has taken a CCW class knows that you don’t run at the nearest cop with your weapon drawn after an incident. You stop your attacker and move to a defensible position, with your gun in a non-threatening but easily accessible position. I wonder what kind of permit you actually have and if you’ve taken the training and know better?

Funny how people expect our soldiers in Iraq/Afghanistan to easily distinguish between civilians and terrorists and will put them on trial if they make a mistake, but are willing to give the police (who are supposedly trained for this) a pass and think the armed citizen would be in the wrong for defending themselves.

And frankly, I’d rather take my chances with friendly fire than accept the certainty of being lined up against a hotel room wall and shot.

>3. You think you are a hero and get your trusty AR-15 and drop a guy you see wearing a ski >mask and carrying a submachine gun – with a beautiful long-distance shot that you believe will >be discussed as a feat of penultimate skill for the next century. Then you see police >helicopter and sharpshooters converging on your position, because you just killed a cop >responding to the scene and didn’t know it because you lacked any comms or command & control >warning all others that 4 cops in ski masks were moving to reposition. You drop your gun, but >odds are that pissed off cops, taking no chances, wax your ass. And no one will really object.

In this case the armed citizen didn’t properly identify the target and shot at something that wasn’t a direct threat, so they were taking their chances. Anyone with CCW training knows you don’t do this. But SWAT teams routinely conduct no-knock raids and shoot grandmothers and that’s ok in your world view that only cops should be armed?

There’s a reason that SWAT teams wear shirts with “POLICE” in big, fluorescent letters on their front and back. So your scenario is even more unlikely.

Armed citizens are just as likely to flee a gunfight as anyone else. The reason for being armed is to deal with the situation where you don’t have the opportunity to get away. It’s the same reason you probably own a fire extinguisher. You’re not yearning for the day that your house catches on fire so that you can use it, are you?

>4. You do identify a good target, but in a situation where it is not self-defense, you fire 12 >pistol shots. One actually downs the “evildoer” but you were so focused on the terrorist that >you didn’t see the crowd behind him. 3 of your other shots hit civilians. One grazes the leg >of a man, but another shoots half the face off a young woman, and the last rips up the liver >and one lung of a 11-year old boy..he bleeds out before he gets to the hospital.
>The cops arrest you. You chuckle and repeat the gun-lovers favorite “Well, I’d rather be >judged by 12 than carried by 6″. A few days later, in jail, your lawyer says that 8 people >have seized your savings and home by court order lien, that as a lawyer he still gets paid…but >your kids in college are out of luck and your wife lost all her credit..and any purchases >until the lawsuits are resolved must go through a court officer paid 60 bucks an hour to see >what are “necessary expenses”. Your personal liability insurance doesn’t cover it. And you >also have the criminal charges for killing the kid and wounding two, one seriously..that may >be filed despite your protestations that it is all the “terrorist’s fault”.

This scenario is wrong on so many levels it’s hard to know where to start. A “good target” is by definition a self defense scenario. In most states that allow CCW, citizens are permitted to use deadly force to protect themselves and others from deadly threats. So shooting a terrorist in front of a group of people won’t get you in trouble. In Texas (and other free states) you wouldn’t be arrested, and the law suits would be quickly dismissed. Maybe things are different in the liberal utopia you live in.

I guess instead of the citizen hitting 3 others and killing 1 you’d rather the terrorist have time to kill the entire crowd, change magazines, and look for another crowd?

And since you’re close enough to take out a terrorist with your pistol, then yes it would be much better to fight in the courts rather than be killed out of hand by the terrorist.

I suppose you’d rather deal with a life of guilt over having run away while the terrorist killed hundreds and you could have done something?

>5. The “armed citizen” is fairly useless in most terorist attacks, which use bombs and >surprise.

Which is why the terorists use bombs and only use these commando raids in areas where they know the citizens are unarmed.

>It may be of marginal value if you are in a hotel or other place with lots of people and you >have no opportunity to retreat..

Ok, here’s a scenario: 2,000 people in a hotel. 5% of the population has a CCW (such as in AZ) and is carrying. That’s 100 armed citizens against the 3 Mumbai terrorists assigned to a hotel. The scenario would end very differently than it did, wouldn’t it?

>As for airlines and cruise ships, security experts have concluded that armed private citizens >out of the control of the captain & crew would be absolute disasters endangering others and >continue to strongly endorse banning autonomous gun-wielders who would react on their own, and >unpredictably, to a terrorist or hostage situation and could make a bad situation far, far >worse. No ship or airplane captain wants “the armed citizen” on board. Neither does the >public. As a holder of a permit, I agree. Bad idea.

I’m sure the people on United 93 were very glad none of them were armed when they were going through the galley looking for makeshift weapons.

But I agree to some extent, at least now an airplane is an environment where the government can make sure that no one is armed. Cruise ships are a bit different, because the terrorists can board them without going through security. I guess that’s why I don’t go on cruises — it’s just a huge, floating unarmed victim zone.

Do you really want to live in an unarmed victim zone all the time?

Dec 10, 2008 - 8:04 am 33. Spindok:

re 25.

The legendary Swiss rifles, yep.

They werent used to keep out Nazis. They were used with great effectiveness to keep out Jewish and other refugees. Germany did not even begin to stamp Jewish passports with the notorious “J” until requested to do so by the Swiss so they could identify and turn away any Jews for fear they wouldnt leave.

The Nazis ran the trains to the concentration camps right through Zurich and could not have afforded to do that if the Swiss had not given them enormous loans. The Nazis used the gold obtained of the teeth of their victims or looted as collateral and the Swiss knew all about it.

Yeah, the brave and mighty Swiss and their rifles.

Dec 10, 2008 - 8:59 am 34. Spindok:

So anyway, back on topic.

I think it is a mixed bag concerning terrorists and CCW as some have pointed out.

I own several handguns and practice at the range. It is a hobby I enjoy and could be helpful in home and self-defense. I took the required NRA course and have the certificate to get a permit if I wanted one. I have not because where I work and live I dont feel the need to carry every day.

The NRA course was very good at teaching gun safety, laws, and basic operation of the weapon but I know it was nothing like the sort of tactical training one gets in the military or law enforcement. We did need to show basic proficiency at the range and discussed what we might do in hypothetical situations but that was it.

My instructor also told me that many people offer him money to just issue a certificate without spending an entire weekend in his class. He is one of the honest ones but he knows of other caught cheating.

Anyway I think these terrorists would not have chosen this sort of attack in an area like mine, with many citizen gun carriers as well as a much more aggressive police force than we saw in Mumbai.

Like a lot of us who know how to shoot with reasonable proficiency I near wept when I saw Sebastian D’Souza’s photo of the terrorist at the train station. Clear shot at close range.

Two hands…he cant see you yet…center sights on body mass…breath hold…1,2,3 shots… I feel a sense of survivor guilt when I see it. I tell myself that had I been there with my weapon even I could have taken him out. Maybe, or maybe that is my own psychological projection.

Then again, as has been pointed out, if I were in the crowd around the hotels I would only have been a danger to the professionals.

I think these sort of terrorists will not attempt this type of attack in the USA. They will choose another method and have. We are feared, for good reasons, as an armed populace with a very aggresive police and security apparatus.

None of this matters when we talk about bombs or more sophisticated operations such as cyber-attack on computer networks, or chem/bio/nuke attacks.

An armed population is a good thing IMO. Yet we must be aware that we are not dealing with idiots here. There are weapons and tactics easily available to render your trusty .45 useless.

Spindok

Dec 10, 2008 - 11:10 am 35. Romassa:

OOO god bless us,how come we hate each other????

Dec 29, 2008 - 11:16 pm

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