Mumbai Highlights Britain’s Threat from Within
Young British Muslims raised on hate are a ticking time bomb.
Jump to December 2005: I attended a “festival of Islamic culture” at the ExCel Centre in Canary Wharf, where 25,000 very angry young Muslims and their supporters were addressed by a succession of Israel-hating, America-loathing speakers, most of whom were as British as Fortnum & Mason. The barrister Michael Mansfield QC, the former hostage turned Islamic activist Yvonne Ridley (she refers to Israel as “that vile little nation”), and politician and champion of Muslim rights George Galloway gave incendiary speeches that left me in chills. When I wrote a long piece about this frightening event — sponsored, by the way, by the Metropolitan Police, Emirates Airlines, and Western Union UK — the entire article was published by Melanie Phillips on her site. She implored politicians and the government to take heed of what I had witnessed. The result: I was vilified by MPACUK (Muslim Public Affairs Committee UK) and received an anonymous email declaring me the “world’s number one Islamophobe, up there with Daniel Pipes and Melanie Phillips.” Perhaps it was pure coincidence, but a few days later my email inbox was wiped.
It is important to note that these events happened after the July 7, 2005, London bombings and that the people speaking at the ExCel Centre event had no compunction about stirring these young people up to feelings of anger against what Yvonne Ridley called the police of “Jackboot Britain.” I will never forget standing on the balcony of the ExCel Centre and showing a group of young, robe-clad, Anglo-Muslim boys one of the dockside buildings that had miraculously escaped the Luftwaffe in the Blitz. They asked me what the Luftwaffe was. One of them asked me who had been bombing London. This could have easily been a group of ill-informed, young non-Muslims, but I lamented the fact that these young men were being indoctrinated with hatred at this event whilst not having any sense of their native nation’s history.
Jump to summer 2008: my members’ magazine from the Overseas Press Club of America arrives in London with a cover picture of chaos in Pakistan. The issue is devoted to guidance on working in Pakistan as a journalist. The perilously porous borders, its turbulent political life since the assassination of Benazir Bhutto, and the fragility of the Musharraf regime in the wake of the attacks on judges had led to an atmosphere just short of a tinderbox. The murder of Wall Street Journal writer and expectant father Daniel Pearl in February 2002, when he well-meaningly traveled there to reach into the core of Muslim anger and write about it with candor, ended with him mutilated. Musharraf’s resignation was a defeat for the United States but the new government under Asif Zardari was expected to bring stability. Now we are on the brink of World War Three as the two atomic powers stare down the abyss of nuclear annihilation.
In the light of the Mumbai atrocities it appears that Pakistan is implicated. On December 1 it was reported on British television that the Jewish hostages in Chabad House had been singled out for torture. For a few hours it was reported that young men from Great Britain may have been the perpetrators of some of the acts of terror in the great Indian city. London’s Evening Standard newspaper of Friday, November 28, bore the headline, “Mumbai Siege Gunmen Are from Britain.” This would not surprise me and fits into my scenario formulated after 9/11. If one reads the pages of MPACUK and sees the venom spewed by its Zionist-obsessed blog, which in the past has included references to “Zionazis” and swastikas inserted in articles about Zionism (these were removed after complaints were lodged to the police and other organizations), one can see how rage is rampant in the streets of Leeds, Birmingham, London, Glasgow, and the rest of Britain. Here are a few samples of the MPACUK discourse (spelling and grammar left uncorrected): “… his zionist brotherly jews are running a apartheid state in Palestine,” “the reality is arabs lived with jews for 1300 years if they wanted they could have finished of the Jews in 1300 years but they were not cold blooded murderers ands theives like israelis …”
If we accept the revised reports on November 30 that the Mumbai gunmen were all native Pakistanis, it is still of considerable worry that the constant stream of media invective against Israel, Zionism, Americans, and indeed against Great Britain is generating a potential Jihadi army-from-within that may be uncontainable. Amongst the mountain of emails going back and forth in my inboxes and outboxes is one from Manchester, England: “How many Mumbai-type scenarios here in the UK will it take until they get wise to the vipers we have in our bosom? — Lani Rosen, Manchester, UK”
On BBC Question Time on Thursday, November 27, notwithstanding the murder unfolding in Mumbai — which could so easily be London or Manchester or Glasgow — the panel and audience still seemed blissfully unaware of the dangers around us in Britain; one got the impression we must sit down and talk to aggrieved groups. Stuff and nonsense.
So, what is the solution? Young Muslims need be led away from radicalism; imams who come here from abroad need to be vetted or deported. The “blame game” of seeing Kashmir, Palestine, and the Gulf as reasons to attack Americans, Jews, and Britons must stop. In the English-language UAE daily The National Dubai businessman Sultan al-Qassemi rails against the Mumbai attacks. In his article, “It’s Not Enough for Muslims to Be Revolted by Terror,” Al-Qassemi argues that nothing can excuse the terrorists’ “bloodthirsty savagery,” and that “the Islamic states must launch a psychological preemptive strike against [them], and — more importantly — [against] those who encourage them.”
Britain needs to put into effect the much-derided time extension on detaining terror suspects. The police must, in turn, not waste taxpayers’ money arresting MPs; Tory Damien Green was, to most sensible Britons’ astonishment, detained this week, accused of leaking to the media details of the government’s shortcomings in dealing with terrorists. Unbelievable but true.
Britain, wake up.
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Carol Gould is the Philadelphia-born author of Don’t Tread on Me: Anti-Americanism Abroad, Spitfire Girls, and A Room at Camp Pickett, a play about her mother’s experiences as a WAC in World War II; she has just completed films about black GIs and GI babies. Carol has been a panelist on BBC's Any Questions?, hosted by Jonathan Dimbleby, and is a commentator on Sky News, Press TV, the BBC World Service, and Five Live.
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41 Comments
1. Jonesy55:“So, what is the solution? Young Muslims need be led away from radicalism”
Yes, but how Carol? Nobody doubts this basic premise, the detail of doing so however is more problematic.
Dec 4, 2008 - 2:43 am 2. Mary Jackson:I’d go further. Stop all Muslim immigration.
The only immigrants we should allow in from Muslim countries are persecuted Christians, Jews, atheists and apostates. They will be grateful to come here and – like Hindus – make a contribution to this country. Muslims are a net cost in every way.
Dec 4, 2008 - 4:14 am 3. Craig:“Young British Muslims raised on hate are a ticking time bomb.”
The sentence makes much more sense, if you just remove the word British.
Dec 4, 2008 - 4:37 am 4. Shaan:Don’t allow the mullahs in. If you have sufficient evidence that they are inciting hatred against anybody, deport them or put them in jail for years. By trying to be politically correct, governments around the world are losing the war against terror.
Dec 4, 2008 - 5:45 am 5. Brian Richard Allen:Mary Jackson: Hear! Hear!
The barbarically colonizing and enslaving ideology know to most as Islam and to too few as a manifestation of evil, is Absolutely incompatible with Judeo-Christian/Western/Human Civilization.
Or, as Mr Winston Leonard Spencer Churchill once observed:
“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities – but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world….
Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.” (W S Churchill – The River War – 1899)
Once great Britain and, come to that, all of old Europe, are already, demographically, doomed. The twin tyrannies of “multiculturalism” and “political correctness” prevent discussion of the issue. Mohammed is the most popular name for new babies in almost every one of the Eurabian Neo-Soviet’s squalidly fascissocialistic states and Muslims are 40 and 50% of the youth populations of many of their cities.
But America, alone, might be saved.
If we follow Mary Jackson’s direction.
Brian Richard Allen
Dec 4, 2008 - 6:18 am 6. Mary Jackson:Los Angeles – CalifUBAMAcated 90028
I’m pleased to see that, in this article, Carol Gould has toned down the anti-British vitriol that has spoiled her other pieces. She is a much more effective writer without it; indeed justifiable criticisms of Britain are made more forcefully if they are precisely targeted, as here. British readers are more likely to pay attention to the good points she makes – critical or not – rather than get on the defensive.
Though not yet proved, it is certainly possible that some of the Muslims involved in the attack were British. Islam does not recognise categories such as “British Muslim”, “French Muslim” or “American Muslim”. There is, in Islam, one Ummah. Fortunately many Muslims don’t follow this doctrine to the letter, but as there is no way of telling which ones do and which ones don’t, Muslim immigration must be severely restricted and, preferably, ended.
This may seem unfair on peaceful Muslims, but that can’t be helped. There are many safe, male drivers aged 17 to 25, but they must all pay higher car insurance premiums because, statistically, though not individually, they are unsafe. Muslim immigrants, likewise, are a bad risk.
Dec 4, 2008 - 6:55 am 7. Chris in Toronto:4. Shaan:
Dec 4, 2008 - 7:05 am 8. Thinking Person:Don’t put them in jail, they find their most receptive and bloodthirsty converts there! Get the out of the country sharpish!
I have to concur with everyone here that Mary Jackson has summed up the solution brilliantly. We are reaping what we sowed long ago when we and Britain allowed the minority to have a lion’s share of the say in the country. In trying to appease everyone we have sold our own soul and to try and get it back now is almost impossible. How many violent demonstrations have been allowed to go on in the name of being politically correct. Those demonstrating now feel emboldened to push for further inroads into mainstream society and are getting them. Again, Mary is right. Would we have the kahones to do it though or is it even too late?
Dec 4, 2008 - 7:06 am 9. cfbleachers:Muslim restriction of speech? Muslim immigration stopped? You are joking, right?
Britain would rather dress up the queen in a jester’s outfit and parade her around Mecca in abject apology than to do either of the above.
The answer is this: Nothing.
Nothing will be done, because Britain has entered the 8th ring of leftist hell, they would rather hold onto the BBC worldview and other leftist pap than to be seen as “intolerant” or “racist” or “jingoistic”.
The problem, of course, is that leftists have set the tone, set the agenda, framed the issues and dominate the information stream.
Scapegoating Israel and America is potty training for the dim bulbs who cannot think their way out of a paper sack and need to unleash their miniature mental fury on easy targets, free of retribution and/or any critical thought. They are parrots and lemmings led by an intemperate leftist media horde, devoid of soul and in a zombie-like trance, chanting slogans and sound bites.
Unless and until the seminal issue is addressed, the answer for what will, could or should be done about it is merely rhetorical chit-chat. Nothing. That is the answer.
Nothing will be done about it, because it is more important to be seen as chic than honorable in Britain…and everywhere where rampant leftism has gone mad.
Dec 4, 2008 - 7:22 am 10. Saltherring:Mary Jackson in #4 says, “Stop all Muslim immigration.”
Amen, Mary, Amen! If only western governments would listen to their citizens.
Dec 4, 2008 - 7:39 am 11. Jonesy55:Mary Jackson,
Even if immigration from muslim countries was just restricted to highly qualified doctors, engineers etc it would probably make a difference.
One reason why Europe seems to suffer more extremism and less integration from its muslim minorities than the USA or Canada could well be that North America has cherry picked skilled and educated people more while the UK, France or Germany have historically allowed large numbers of unskilled immigrants from backward and conservative rural areas in Pakistan, the Maghreb and Turkey respectively.
The culture class between Western societies and poor villages on the Pakistan/Afghan border or in deepest Kurdistan is far greater than between the west and upper middle class urban merchants and doctors from Tehran or Casablanca.
Dec 4, 2008 - 7:57 am 12. Jonesy55:Brian Richard Allen.
‘Mohammed is the most popular name for new babies in almost every one of the Eurabian Neo-Soviet’s squalidly fascissocialistic states and Muslims are 40 and 50% of the youth populations of many of their cities.’
Much as you would no doubt like it to be true so that you could wallow in Schadenfreude and confirm your clearly held view of how dumb and doomed Europeans are, this isn’t actually true.
Here is a link to the 100 most popular babies names in the UK over the past 5 years.
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/specials/babiesnames_boys.asp
As you can see,in 2007 Mohammed was at 17 and a couple of variant spellings were at numbers 38 and 71. No other muslim names were present in the top 100. The top 100 girls names contains no muslim names.
If this is true for the UK which has a relatively high muslim population compared to many European countries, I find it very difficult to believe that Mohammed is number 1 in countries such as Austria, Slovenia, Portugal, Norway, Finland etc.
Hysterically exaggerating the situation does nothing to solve any problems.
Dec 4, 2008 - 8:09 am 13. Mary Jackson:Even if immigration from muslim countries was just restricted to highly qualified doctors, engineers etc it would probably make a difference.
Perhaps, but remember that the attempted murder at Glasgow airport was carried out by Muslim doctors. The roots of Muslim rage are in Islam itself, not poverty or “grievances”.
The name “Mohammed” is given to nearly all Muslim boys as one of their names. For example, a Muslim boy commonly known as Bilal Ahmed will have on his birth certificate “Mohammed Bilal Ahmed”, and his brother Ismail will be called “Mohammed Ismail Ahmed”. This greatly increases the occurrences of the name Mohammed. Imagine how common the name Tarquin would be if all Church of England had it as their middle name: John Tarquin Smith, Clive Tarquin Clutterbuck, Fergus Tarquin Busby, Algernon Taquin Cholmondesly-Featherstonehaugh etc.
Are there too many Muslims in Britain? Yes, without a doubt, but the occurrence of the name Mohammed is less relevant than might at first be supposed.
Dec 4, 2008 - 8:21 am 14. Jonesy55:Mary,
It’s true that there have been instances of fanatics coming from wealthier parts of society but in general it’s the poorly educated masses in Muslim countries that seem to be the angry young men, the educated professional classes in most cases are far more secular.
Maybe I should have dozens more children and call them all Tarquin to allay the fears of our American cousins.
Angry and idealistic/naive young men appear in all cultures, in the west they might join a Che Guevara appreciation society or become a militant animal rights campaigner for a few years until they wake up.
Angry and idealistic/naive young men in the muslim world tend to channel this anger into militant Islam instead where they will be encouraged and supported by a relatively small but determined and organised band of career jihadist western society haters which is obviously far more of a problem for us.
That said, >99% of all Muslims will never carry out any terror attack on anybody so it’s perfectly possible to be a muslim and not be a threat to our lives, just as it is perfectly possible to be a Jew or Christian and ignore the barbaric instructions contained in the Old Testament.
So I’m not sure that Islam can be said to be the sole root of all their rage while poverty and grievance play no part. Islam as a philosophy is used by them as a justification for sure but greivances/angst – even if perceived rather than real or justified – can well be the trigger which sends somebody into extremism. Islam is part of the cocktail, but that part alone is not enough to cause most adherents to follow the extremist’s path.
Even if all perceived greivances were to be removed (which if they are not justified would clearly be appeasement and wrong) there would still be a hardcore of extremists who would continue with their Jihad anyway just because that’s the way they are.
So we shouldn’t concentrate too much on this aspect but it would be wrong to think that just because somebody is a muslim, they are a lost cause, fated to hate us and determined to undermine and destroy our way of life through a combination of violence and stealth simply because of their religion. This way of thinking is to acquiesce to the ‘inevitable war of cultures’ scenario that the muslim extremists want to foster. It is playing into their hands.
Dec 4, 2008 - 9:03 am 15. Dr. Lumplevin:The presence of radical Islam in western countries spells its deathknell, as much as an HIV virus, or auto-immune disease does in a human body. Like other modern pathogens, the HIV virus has the canny ability to mutate and not only disguise itself as healthy cells, but also to cause the regulatory T-cells to attack healthy tissue rather thasn the pathodenic cells. British Islamic radicals and their Leftist useful idiots like Galloway, have adopted the lingo and facade of western liberal democracies founded upon the principles of judeo-Christian faith. Yet, as their leaders have openly declared to the PC-addled, Leftist mythology benumbed, haven’t-got-a-clue elites, “we will use your fredom to destoy you,” the normally protective preservative agents – the free press, te law, ETC. – rather than attacking pathogenic influences in the country, they attack their own people, principles and values.
As far as I know, there are no known remedies for auto-immune diseases.
Dec 4, 2008 - 9:14 am 16. Angry White Dude:After 9/11 we should have deported ALL Muslim students and tourists immediately. All Muslim citizens should have been informed that they will be watched. We have just cause.
England is dying and it is only a matter of short time until there is a major terrorist event there. America will follow in England’s footsteps because of our equally stupid loyalty to political correctness. I can be nice to a rattlesnake all day long and pretend it won’t bite me. Same with young Muslims. I have seen NOTHING good come from that religion or its followers.
Angry White Dude
Dec 4, 2008 - 9:26 am 17. Ian Thorpe:Good article, good points, but I wish people would understand Islam, like Christianity is a big tent and within it are many sideshows. Christians are very quick to object when the atrocities or crimes of one sect are loaded onto the generalism “Christians.”
The extreme Wahabi sect are behind most of the trouble caused by Islam and immigrants to Britain are not usually members of the sect, it is their offsping who tend to be recruited to it.
Tighter immigration controls and a stringent citizenship test are the answer. There is a good line in the novel Brick Lane by Monica Ali, set in London’s bangladeshi community. The main character, Nazeen complains about immigrant men like her husband saying “They want all the advantages of living in the west but they are not willing to change a single thing of the way they expect to live.” Very true. To Nazeem it is little things like her feeling she should not have to cut her hubby’s toenails for him, but implicit in that is the suggestion that such men will always insist girls who go out alone, hair uncovered, wearing short skirts and sleeveless tops are prostitues.
They are hardly qualified to live in the west are they?
I recommend Monica Ali’s Brick Lane as a good read for anybody who would like a few nights entertainment and an insight into the mindset and the subtle rebellions of Muslim women.
Dec 4, 2008 - 9:30 am 18. Bill Perron:How can any intelligent person follow a religion that plainly is the source of multiple p[roblems all over the world ? If someone professes to be a follower of the Mulim religion that should be taken as proof positive thay said person is stupid beyond all belief and does not deserve any respect or consideration in any civilized country, and that belief should be legal grounds for immediate deportation to Pakistan.
Dec 4, 2008 - 9:44 am 19. BMoon:Thorpe,
Superficial observance might support a contrived argument such as yours, but willful, blind ignorance of the glaring, fundamental, inherent differences between Islam and Christianity is symptomatic of the thou8ght-killing disease that is eating the West alive and threatens us all.
The only Muslims that are not a threat to Western values and civilization are those who have been innoculated by Christian civilization, and even they are stll latent carriers of the disease.
Dec 4, 2008 - 10:00 am 20. David H:Jonesy55 said “Mary, It’s true that there have been instances of fanatics coming from wealthier parts of society but in general it’s the poorly educated masses in Muslim countries that seem to be the angry young men, the educated professional classes in most cases are far more secular.”
The poorly educated young men are groomed through fear, the sense of being part of a whole and sexual repression to be cannon fodder, so that educated and rich Muslims can have all of the women and the wealth and be some sort of Saladin type figure to leave their mark in Islamic history… and while they are free to play this game it will keep happening.
And Mary I agree with you in item 2.
In terms of Carol’s remarks on Britain, I would suggest that she is very disappointed over how Britain has developed as I am, I quite understand where she is coming from, there are some cold hard truths about just how far Britain has fallen and I don’t like it either.
Thorpe, the problem is the core texts and values of Islam, it is a religion created around the whims of a cultist to justify his acts and needs and a warleader, you can put lipstick on a pig, but its still a pig…
Dec 4, 2008 - 10:32 am 21. susan:little childish jonesy
“Yes, but how Carol? Nobody doubts this basic premise, the detail of doing so however is more problematic.”
stopping bending over backwards to accomodate their whinings and stopping consider them as the master race would be a start for people like you
Dec 4, 2008 - 11:12 am 22. susan:lol, classic true gem
“Even if immigration from muslim countries was just restricted to highly qualified doctors, engineers etc it would probably make a difference.”
the suicide bombers of the glasgow airport were doctors.
Keep your head firmly below the sand jonesy, nothing interesting outside
Dec 4, 2008 - 11:15 am 23. zanne:Much like cancer. Unchecked it eventually kills. We are one step behind Britain.
Dec 4, 2008 - 11:53 am 24. Thinking Person:I still think that we can glean a lot from the deafening silence of the Muslim community when an atrocity is committed under it’s banner. Why is there no outcry from the masses of Muslim’s who fall into the “peaceful” category so many people say exist? If they truly are a peaceful people and religion why are they not denouncing all the violence and threatened violence if for no other reason that to steer their younger generations away from it? Their silence speaks loudly to me.
Dec 4, 2008 - 2:54 pm 25. dragonfly:There will never be a uniting of “moderate” Muslims to oppose murderous zealots because every Muslim, Jihadist or passive, truly believes in the Great Day of Judgement, To speak out against extremist believers in their faith would condemn them to eternal hell, in addition to identifying them as as apostates – worse than infidels – in the eyes of the extremists, and therefor deserving of death.
Would YOU speak out in those circumstances?
Dec 4, 2008 - 4:58 pm 26. Joshua:I still think that we can glean a lot from the deafening silence of the Muslim community when an atrocity is committed under it’s banner. Why is there no outcry from the masses of Muslim’s who fall into the “peaceful” category so many people say exist? If they truly are a peaceful people and religion why are they not denouncing all the violence and threatened violence if for no other reason that to steer their younger generations away from it? Their silence speaks loudly to me.
In a word, fear. Not necessarily just the fear of being murdered by Islamic supremacists for apostasy, but the fear of being eternally damned to hell by Allah for same. It is one thing to stand up to thuggery at the risk of your mortal coil. To stand up to the same thuggery at the risk of your immortal soul (in case the thugs are correct about Allah being on their side) is something else altogether.
Dec 4, 2008 - 5:21 pm 27. Sandra M:This country has a separation of church and state. Muslims and others should be asked if they agree with this principle, if not they should not be granted entry or, if already here, they should be deported to their country of origin.
The Churchill quote in comment # 5 is brilliant and reminds me that every hundred years or so the Muslims rise in Jihad until thoroughly DEFEATED and then there is peace for another century or so.
Our Marines whomped them on the shores of Tripoli, General Pershing whomped them in the Philippines and on and on. What incites their enthusiasm is the prospect of winning. We should have made it unmistakable to Saddam Hussein that we had defeated him. Not doing so necessitated a second war. The enthusiasm for Osama bin Laden has waned with his many losses in Iraq. We need more of the same. Alas,our President-elect and the current congress will try the Jimmy Carter way.
Dec 4, 2008 - 6:49 pm 28. Jason S:It’s not just young British Muslims. It’s any Western Muslims who live in countries with extremely liberal welfare states and a prevailing left wing culture which holds moral relativism as a virtue (basically, the whole of Western Europe).
In such countries, Muslims quickly swell the welfare rolls and develop an aggressive sense of entitlement. They’re herded into giant Muslim public housing enclaves where they live insular lives, away from the Western culture which feeds them.
Unlike American Muslims, who have little choice but to adopt the prevailing work ethic and many of whom become entrepreneurs and business owners, European Muslims are, in huge numbers, paid by the state to sit at home simmering in their own cultural juices. Since Islamic culture carries an innate hatred of the infidel ways of the West, and since Euro-leftists do everything to create conditions in which Muslims have little to do but whip themselves into an Islamic frenzy, a dangerous situation is created.
Naturally, the Euro-leftists are so obsessed with their outward displays of “tolerance” and “understanding” that they sit quite happily and allow this to go on. Their heads are ruled by the shopworn slogans of political correctness and they have long since lost the ability to reason objectively.
Dec 4, 2008 - 8:12 pm 29. jonesy55:Susan,
Thank you for your comments which as usual add nothing useful to the question in hand.
It’s sad that the internet has led to a lowering of standards when it comes to debate, why bother engaging with people when you can simply resort to invective and insult?
Dec 4, 2008 - 11:59 pm 30. jonesy55:“I still think that we can glean a lot from the deafening silence of the Muslim community when an atrocity is committed under it’s banner. Why is there no outcry from the masses of Muslim’s who fall into the “peaceful” category so many people say exist? If they truly are a peaceful people and religion why are they not denouncing all the violence and threatened violence if for no other reason that to steer their younger generations away from it? Their silence speaks loudly to me.”
Many do denounce the violence, like the officials of the muslim cemeteries in India who refuse to bury the Mumbai terrorists, like the many who I have read condemning the attacks on websites of newspapers in Islamic countries, like the muslims I have spoken to personally who are disgusted by such acts. To say that there is ’silence’ is not true.
There are not mass demonstrations on the streets, most muslims are probably just going about their daily business, going to work, doing the shopping and so on and don’t see that this has anything to do with them. Even if there were mass demonstrations in the streets though, judging by some opinions here, they would just be dismissed as paying lip-service to western concerns, muslims lying to disguise their true opinions.
In the same way we don’t see mass demonstrations of Christians condemning the atrocities of the Lord’s Resistance Army in Uganda which are carried out in the name of their religion. To most Christians no doubt this is such a perverted interpretation of Christianity that they don’t see anything in common with their own faith.
Dec 5, 2008 - 12:29 am 31. David H:28 Spot on, I could not agree more with that comment, also 25 and 26 detail what I meant by fear.
In terms of 25 that is why those Muslims who reject this religion and who speak out against it have my total and utter respect.
Jonesy, lets have a look at your comment:
It’s true that there have been instances of fanatics coming from wealthier parts of society but in general it’s the poorly educated masses in Muslim countries that seem to be the angry young men, the educated professional classes in most cases are far more secular.
ANSER – Your making a sweeping generalisation here, and an assumption that is plain wrong, the poor angry young men are manipulated into hate and anger and sexual frustration, but so are the rich, education does not necessarily remove their faith, but can ad to it by a desire to get deeper into Islam. Your basic premise is worng.
Angry and idealistic/naive young men appear in all cultures, in the west they might join a Che Guevara appreciation society or become a militant animal rights campaigner for a few years until they wake up.
ANSWER: Yes, and just like Communism, Islamism uses that and develops that, some people never wake up
Angry and idealistic/naive young men in the muslim world tend to channel this anger into militant Islam instead where they will be encouraged and supported by a relatively small but determined and organised band of career jihadist western society haters which is obviously far more of a problem for us.
ANSWER: Again a sweeping generalisation, you think it is a small band of Jihadists and refuse to accept that the issue is within the core texts of Islam, while you ignore that then you will never understand the real issue.
That said, >99% of all Muslims will never carry out any terror attack on anybody so it’s perfectly possible to be a muslim and not be a threat to our lives, just as it is perfectly possible to be a Jew or Christian and ignore the barbaric instructions contained in the Old Testament.
ANSWER: Again a sweeping assumption, I read that 30% of British Muslims agree with suicide attacks, makes your 99% look rather wrong…, the 1% could be anywhere between 1% to 30%, we just do not know, but 1% is perhaps those that are in the process.
Oh dear the typical equalisation, all religions are the same bit, those verses in the bible are specific in time and place and are takien as such, however teh call for war against the unbeliever is not limited to time and place, your wrong wrong wrong.
So I’m not sure that Islam can be said to be the sole root of all their rage while poverty and grievance play no part. Islam as a philosophy is used by them as a justification for sure but greivances/angst – even if perceived rather than real or justified – can well be the trigger which sends somebody into extremism. Islam is part of the cocktail, but that part alone is not enough to cause most adherents to follow the extremist’s path.
ANSWER: Islam has a victim mentality, as they deem themselves to be the best then us low lives killing one of them even in accident is a crime against humanity, you just have to look deeper into their reaction, I remember a Muslim telling me that the riots in France were due to the action of France in Algeria and also the way some French police threw protesting Muslims into the Seine. So I asked him to think about the acts of the Barbary pirates and then the massacre of the French in a mixed town in Algeria at the end of the Algerian war, he just refused to acknowledge that, obviously that did not matter as they were infidels. It was interesting because he did not accept it as wrong, it was their right as Muslims and this guy was deemed a moderate, LOL.
Even if all perceived greivances were to be removed (which if they are not justified would clearly be appeasement and wrong) there would still be a hardcore of extremists who would continue with their Jihad anyway just because that’s the way they are.
ANSWER: They would manufacture more greviences, remember that standing up for your own culture and religion is preventing the sprad of Islam, a crime and a source of grevience.
So we shouldn’t concentrate too much on this aspect but it would be wrong to think that just because somebody is a muslim, they are a lost cause, fated to hate us and determined to undermine and destroy our way of life through a combination of violence and stealth simply because of their religion. This way of thinking is to acquiesce to the ‘inevitable war of cultures’ scenario that the muslim extremists want to foster. It is playing into their hands.
ANSWER: While they stay a Muslim they are a lost cause, the religion tells them to hate us, to kill us with the aim of converting all to Islam.
The inevitable war of cultures, well I keep hearing Imams in the Middle East talking about the lack of morals in the West, sexual pervesions, homosexuality, beastality etc., the Imams have already declared war on our culture, that war is upon us whether you like it or accept it or not, because you have refused to acknowledge that does not mean that the war is not happening, after all Mohammed effectively declared war on all non-Muslims.
Yes it may be playing into their hands, however so are demographics and the removal of our basic freedoms, I suppose that it is OK to be under Islamic repression if it happens through demographics and peacable means, sorry I disagree, I like me freedom, well whats left of it…
Dec 5, 2008 - 1:23 am 32. susan:jonesy
as usual, truth hurts.
Do you want me again to publish all the articles in which your sorry british self is bending over backwards to muslims or you prefer not to be ridiculed once again publicly?
Dec 5, 2008 - 6:41 am 33. jonesy55:Dearest Susan, I really don’t care what you do, you are an irrelevance to me.
Publish away but if you are truly naive enough to take everything you read in the newspapers at face value then you are just another mindless fool, I feel sorry for you.
Dec 5, 2008 - 8:03 am 34. susan:so i guess your trial system is a joke since most of those “articles” are based on “real life trials”. You never questioned anything you read about obama and now you are questioning real facts happening on your soil?
As I said jonesy, the more the better, with the islamic kingdom of UK there will be less muslims in civilized countries of europe. Take them all. But remember, if you will want to get out, do not come anywhere any of the countries that are trying to do something to face the facts. You are part of the problem, not of the solution. And no, I do not feel sorry for you, you get what you deserve, whether it’s explosion or muslim doctors refusing to wash themselves with alcohol.
Dec 5, 2008 - 8:24 am 35. kourosh:Who do you think the crazies like Khomeinie, Rafsan-Jani, Khamenhi, Ahmadi-Nejad, and other low life learn their slogans? If it wasn’t for BBC, Guardian, FT, BBC-Int., CNN-Int., the terrorists, Islamists, and Jahadists didn’t have enough data to go around and attack US, Israel, France and others in an hourly basis. One glance of BBC Persian page will be enough for anyone to realize where the terrorists and murderers of Iranian and other people get their daily doses of ideas and info. As a matter of the fact BBC constantly feed the Khomeinists terrorist with the misinformation often compares Bush with Ahmadi-Nejad, and US situation say its economy with Iran to justify Khomeinist acts against Iranian people. For example if US use capital punishment on a serial murderer, and Khomeinists hang 6 young people for being Bahai or homosexual The BBC publishes both reports and side-by-side, and then asks his backward readers to comment about capital punishment mainly concentrating on US as the guilty side. British media mandate has always been manipulation of information. My problem is why then their media are being used in US and in PBS. They don’t deserve such a place in the US media. Unfortunately the way Brits media are conducting themselves, itb seems they never are satisfied unless there is a Queen Rayhane, and a Prince Al-Mahnoos instead of Liz and Charles.
Dec 5, 2008 - 8:52 am 36. David H:35. I agree with you and you should have seen their attempt at being impartial with the attack on Mumbai, it would not have surprised me if a Muslim had written the report as it mentioned that Hindu extremists had been arrested, then the bit talking about incidents was cut and they left in the fact that Hindu extremists had been arrested, so it looked like it was a joint Hindu and Muslim operation, it would have been funny if it was not so damn serious.
I have noticed that death penalty issue, it got me going too. The BBC are scum…
Dec 5, 2008 - 9:24 am 37. lipstick on my pig:Britain is desperately trying to keep the lid on potential civil uprising, but the average non-muslim Brit is considered the danger. Non-muslims are warned “not to respond or react” to the unjustified ‘anger’ and violence of muslims and their anti-social ways.
Dec 5, 2008 - 9:46 am 38. David H:All the while the UK politicians (who really want to be like Blair and make a fast buck and then get out) keep trying all sorts of feeble placatory gestures, knowing secretly that the muslims have little regard for democracy and will because of their ‘education’ and intransigence simply carry on lying and manipulating.
The mainstream British media have an ivory-tower approach, arrogantly thinking they ‘understand’ the muslim mind and offer a set of ready made excuses for any of their barbaric behavior while all the time refusing to ‘blame’ anyone other than ourselves. Even the word terrorism is verboten.
They must not be offended, and the truth does offend them mightily. However given the muslim track record of violence when not having any reason other than reading a fairy story perhaps you can see why.
There is of course the lingering if unrealistic hope that just as we did in 1938, if we give enough ground and sacrifice our liberties then trouble can be averted. Somehow our ‘leaders’ think that being ‘understanding’ and soft towards muslims will defuse the situation.
In short, if we British are told the truth and reacted because we were sufficiently appalled by this ignorant, violent, backward-looking, woman-hating and poisonous religion, the police and the British government could not deal with the reaction.
In our midst we have a treasonous gathering of murderers and liars who refuse to integrate and yet our dear leaders think we non-muslims are the ones who need to be controlled.
Thinking about it I think that the attack on CO2 is not just about global warming, but is more than that, which is why a person like myself who rejects the whole premise of global warming is keen to move to non-oil based energy. Do a search on ITM Power.
In terms of the Muslims, if the Muslim world unites against the other then there will be a huge amount of bloodshed, our leaders are trying to stop us from reacting because they believe and it might be true that Islam will collapse within itself… The problem is that while waiting for this to happen our societies are being destroyed, will Islam collapse before they destroy us, I think not, but that is the strategy of our current leaders, if they were doing all they could to obstruct additional Muslim immigration at this point then I would think they knew what they are doing, but I do not think so, in truth whenever Muslims rub up against non-Muslims conflict arises, our politicans fail to realise that they have missed the boat already, instead they ask us to keep accepting the huge increase in crime and rape, and an arrogant backward ideology rubbing treating us with contempt, this can not go on…
Dec 5, 2008 - 11:23 am 39. Judy, NYC:it’s the same thing here. we allow these filthy miscreant muslims to vomit their hatred freely on every college campus, including those schools we fund with our own tax money. we hire equally stupid, unqualified, fake history dispensers. the scum that teach them the muslim credo, jew hatred and anti-american propaganda. we pay for that, too.
when pbs interviews the dirtbag from iran or his slimy cronies, it’s as if they think there is more we need to hear from certifiable psychotics who need to always be on maximum dosage meds. the shit-for-brains pseudo intellectual audience meekly accepts it, pretending they watch to be informed. about what?!
this can’t get better. guaranteed we will have another 9/11 tragedy soon.
our best hope is they nuke themselves in an attempt to nuke anyone else. second best, a chernobyl disaster. immediately following that we can send them all back home on a flotilla of rafts stocked with american cheese sandwiches and gefilte fish (just for spite).
Dec 6, 2008 - 12:16 am 40. Randy:All the evident about islam is absolutly overwhelming, that they are inherently violent. What do you expect, when the founder established the religion through violence and conquest. Tolerance and peaceful coexistence with person of other faith is not in their religious creed. They would criticise and cry wolf on others, but criticise them and expose the irrationality about their beliefs and actions, youll see them on the street. What kind of world are we living that do not tolerate an informed dissent. I think Britain and the western world are living with a green snake in a green grass amongs them. Wake up and know that its not a pet but a dangerous animal that need to be delt as such. Infact, i have lost every bit of flavour i had for the Mohamedans due to the culture of violent that is inherent and prevailing from them.
Dec 6, 2008 - 5:20 pm 41. Marvin Mark:The problem is not the violent Moslems. The problems is the contrary value system to the USA’s equal rights to life liberty and pursuit of happiness. Meanwhile, Anti Civilized Moslems use equal rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness for self and death misery, and slavery to all others. These are contrary value systems that cause automatic identification with the Anti Civilized to relieve run away anxiety caused by mutual exclusive value systems. This is nothing more than a super Stockholm Syndrome. However, it is hidden in the dark. More about this phenomenon and its cure can be found at http://www.jewishgroups.org/Star-LIFE
Visit this website, the lives you save may be your own, your family and others.
Note: Feel free to ask for clarification after you visit my website.
Dec 7, 2008 - 1:59 am