Pajamas Media

Muslims Leaving Islam in Droves

Ex-Muslim Magdi Allam's very public baptism on Easter Sunday made headlines, but he is just one among legions converting from Islam around the world.

April 3, 2008 - by Andrew Walden

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Pope Benedict’s choice to publicly baptize the most prominent Muslim in Italy, Egyptian-born Magdi Allam, highlights a quiet worldwide exodus from Islam. In recent years, millions have moved on. With this high-profile action, Pope Benedict demonstratively blesses this massive conversion from the highest levels of the Church.

Interviewed by al-Jazeera in 2006, Ahmad al-Qataani, leader of the Companions Lighthouse for the Science of Islamic Law in Libya, explains the decline:

Islam used to represent … Africa’s main religion and there were 30 African languages that used to be written in Arabic script. The number of Muslims in Africa has diminished to 316 million, half of whom are Arabs in North Africa. So in the section of Africa that we are talking about, the non-Arab section, the number of Muslims does not exceed 150 million people. When we realize that the entire population of Africa is one billion people, we see that the number of Muslims has diminished greatly from what it was in the beginning of the last century.

On the other hand, the number of Catholics has increased from one million in 1902 to 329 million 882 thousand (329,882,000). Let us round off that number to 330 million in the year 2000.

As to how that happened, well there are now 1.5 million churches whose congregations account for 46 million people. In every hour, 667 Muslims convert to Christianity. Everyday, 16,000 Muslims convert to Christianity. Every year, 6 million Muslims convert to Christianity. These numbers are very large indeed.

Allam’s public baptism came just ten days after the body of Catholic Archbishop Paulos Faraj Rahho of Mosul, Iraq, was found in a shallow grave after being kidnapped by al-Qaeda February 29. The ceremony came just three days after an al-Qaeda tape threatening the pope and condemning cartoons of Mohammed. Muslims who convert to other religions or abandon religion entirely are subject to a standing order of death for apostasy. The baptism of Allam is an act of defiance in the face of Islamic threats.

The baptism of Allam also comes in the midst of papal “dialogue” with Muslims. The dialogue began unpromisingly with the catcalls from Islam and its secularist allies which greeted the now-famous September 20, 2006, papal address at the University of Regensburg. In October, 138 Islamic leaders presented the pope with “A Common Word Between Us and You” — nailed by critics as a craftily written call for conversion. On March 4, Pope Benedict approved formation of a permanent “Catholic-Muslim forum” scheduled to meet in November. And now he has thrown his own call for conversion into the discussion. Islam’s secularist allies were quick to echo Muslims, calling the baptism “provocative.” While accepting the Islamic death penalty for apostasy as a given, they complain the pope’s action could set back dialogue.

While the secularists wring their hands, Allam writes that his mind “has been freed from the obscurantism of an ideology that legitimizes lies and deception, violent death that leads to homicide and suicide, blind submission to tyranny, permitting me to join the authentic religion of Truth, Life, and Liberty. … I realize what I am going up against but I will confront my fate with my head high, with my back straight, and the interior strength of one who is certain about his faith.”

Allam, author of numerous books and deputy editor of Milan’s Corriere della Sera, joins a list of converts from Islam which includes many other public intellectuals and millions of average people from all over the world. This is more than the normal flow between two large religious communities. Islam can point to little in the way of recent conversions. Its claim to be the world’s fastest-growing religion stems mostly from the high birth rate in Islamic countries, whose infant mortality rates have been cut by the introduction of Western medicine. Christian growth is based on adult conversion. As leading Christian evangelist Wolfgang Simpson writes, “More Muslims have come to Christ in the last two decades than in all of history.”

Although al-Qataani points to Africa, there is another phenomenon based on repulsion from Islamist dictatorship, corruption, and terrorist violence. In Iran as many as 1 million people have surreptitiously converted to Evangelical Christianity in the last five years. Pastor Hormoz Shariat claims to have converted 50,000 of them through his U.S.-based Farsi-language satellite ministry. He contrasts the upswing to the efforts of evangelical missionaries in Iran between 1830 and 1979, whose 149 years of work built a Christian community of only 3,000. One Iranian religious scholar believes youth are abandoning Islam because it is identified with the corrupt Iranian government. Now the Iranian Majlis (parliament) is debating the death penalty for conversion.

After years of al-Qaeda war on Iraq, a similar phenomenon is growing. The New York Times March 4 reports: “After almost five years of war, many young people in Iraq, exhausted by constant firsthand exposure to the violence of religious extremism, say they have grown disillusioned with religious leaders and skeptical of the faith that they preach.” A high school girl tells Times reporters: “I hate Islam and all the clerics because they limit our freedom every day and their instruction became heavy over us. Most of the girls in my high school hate that Islamic people control the authority because they don’t deserve to be rulers.” A 19-year-old man says: “The religion men are liars. Young people don’t believe them. Guys my age are not interested in religion anymore.” A Baghdad law professor explains that her students “have changed their views about religion. They started to hate religious men. They make jokes about them because they feel disgusted by them.” A 24-year-old female college student says, “I used to love Osama bin Laden. Now I hate Islam. Al-Qaeda and the Mahdi Army are spreading hatred. People are being killed for nothing.”

In southern Russia the same pattern is emerging. According to Roman Silantyev, executive secretary of the Inter-religious Council in Russia, freed from atheist control, two million Muslims converted to Christianity. Repulsed by bloody terrorist attacks, those living in areas such as Beslan have converted to Christianity in the greatest numbers of all. As many as 100,000 have converted to Christianity in post-Soviet Kyrgyzstan.

After decades of Islamist war, evangelicals report thousands of sub-rosa converts in rural areas of Kashmir. Says one churchgoer: “I am interested in this religion. I hate violence. I hate fundamentalists in Islam. I come here to seek peace.” An Indian newspaper headline reads: “Urban Muslim Youth Out to Junk Faith.”

Following decades of terrorist rule, Palestinians are being quietly converted, holding in-home services to avoid detection. Says one evangelist: “I’ve been working among these people for thirty years, and I promise you I’ve never seen anything like this.”

Islam is also losing adherents in areas where Islamist harassment is heavy on the streets. The London Times estimates 15% of Muslims living in Western Europe have left Islam — 200,000 in the UK alone. Those who leave often face harassment, threats, and attack.

The mufti of Perak, Malaysia, estimates about 250,000 people have abandoned Islam, making formal application for apostasy to the state — a right allowed to Malaysian citizens who are not ethnic Malays. Says he: “This figure does not include individuals who don’t do solat, doesn’t fast and breaks [sic] all the tenets of Islam.” Borrowing from the communist playbook, Malaysia operates “reeducation camps” for any ethnic Malay found guilty of apostasy. Unsurprisingly, ethnic Malays are at the bottom of the economic ladder in Malaysia.

In a letter published in Corriere della Sera on Easter Day, Allam points out the pope “sent an explicit and revolutionary message to a church that until now has been too cautious in the conversion of Muslims … because of the fear of being unable to protect the converted who are condemned to death for apostasy.

“Thousands of people in Italy have converted to Islam and practice their faith serenely. But there are also thousands of Muslims who have converted to Christianity who are forced to hide their new faith out of fear of being killed by Islamist terrorists.”

Allam describes Islam as a system for taking and holding power. Threat of violence is its enforcement mechanism. Allam also points out: “Beyond … the phenomenon of extremists and Islamist terrorism at the global level, the root of evil is inherent to a physiologically violent and historically conflictual Islam.” So it is not coincidental that Muslims are abandoning the faith as U.S. and coalition soldiers smash al-Qaeda in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere. Islamist terrorists and street thugs are beginning to look impotent.

Appeasement-oriented opinion explains Islamic violence as a response to Western policy. For them, reality is incomprehensible. But in a 1998 ABC News interview with John Miller, Osama bin Laden explained his motivation: Allah had given the jihadis victory over one superpower (the USSR) and Allah would grant them victory over the other. But a decade later it is not coming to pass on the battlefield. The defeat of the Islamists puts the lie to the claim that Allah will cause the infidels to desire submission. As a result, the Islamists’ ability to intimidate their captive populations is weakened. More and more it is Muslims who no longer desire submission to Islam.

Andrew Walden is Editor of the Hawai`i Free Press in Hilo, HI and may be reached at andrewwalden@email.com.

109 Comments

I live in the UK and it seems more an more people especially from poor background are finding islam and some NOT all are becoming radicalised by images from israel and iraq even though muslims are to blame for most of their problems in the regions they find it easier to blame the west..But believe me islam is not shrinking and it wont go away..unfortunately

Apr 3, 2008 - 3:44 am Jim:

However, more and more people are opening their eyes to the evil. The radicalization might not be shrinking now, but opposition to it is slowly getting stronger. Hopefully, soon, the radicalization will really weaken, and the tide will turn. The more the public knows just how screwed up islamic radicals are, the better off we all are. We have to keep up the fight, and we must pray more.

Apr 3, 2008 - 5:56 am PRODOS (Melbourne, Australia):

You referred to …

… the now-famous September 20, 2006, papal address at the University of Regensburg.

I believe the correct date is September 12, 2006.

Apr 3, 2008 - 7:21 am Michael Canzano:

I find this news as hope for the Planet. There are over one billion Muslims on the Planet.It was hard for me to believe there is that much wool on the Planet to cover all thoes eyes.
The Pope knows Islam is a “Junk Yard Dog Religion” and apparently Muslims are seeing the truth . God Bless Us All is a Catholic mantra .
“Allah Help Us Kill Infidels” is the Islamic mantra.
American Christian Infidel
Michael Canzano

Apr 3, 2008 - 7:30 am Nash:

WE DON’T NEED MUSLIM TO LEAVE ISLAM AND ALSO CHRISTIAN NO NEED TO THIS. WHAT WE NEED NOW CONVERTING FROM ISLAM TO ISLAM. EVERY PERSON HAVE RIGHT TO CONVERT AND IT IS NOT A NEWS THAT NEED TO PROPAGANDA. WHAT WE HAVE TO FOCUS IT CONVERT FROM EXTREMIST TO REFORMIST BECAUSE MUSLIM YOUNG COMMUNITY IS OUR MAIN GOAL NOT SOME OLD OR MIDDLE AGE GENERATION.
ANOTHER THING THAT WE NEED CONSIDER IS OPPRTUNIST PEOPLE WHO WANT TAKE ADVANTAGE FROM THEIR CONVERTING. IT IS NOT NESSECARY TO EXPLAIN WHO COVERT FROM WHICH RELIGION TO WHAT RELIGION. I KNOW MANY PERSONS WHO HAVE 2 OR 3 RELIGIONS AND THEY HAVE TAKEN THE ADVANTAGE FROM ALL MUSLIM/CHRISTIAN AND JEWISH COMMUNITIES.

FINALLY WHAT WE NEED TO KEEP SECURE OUR LIVES IS HONESTY AND THE PATH THAT LEADING EXTREMIST TO MODERATE.

Apr 3, 2008 - 7:36 am Jim S:

We “the West” must not cave in to PC when it comes to Islam. If the author is correct with his statistics, all we need to do is calmly present the facts and stick to our principals. Wherever all views are presented for all to see, people have seen the backwards ways of Islam and are exercising their will to be free. Only in the closed societies where Islam totally controls what people see and hear and the people know nothing about the rest of the world, is Islam maintaining its hold as a major religion.

Apr 3, 2008 - 7:54 am Brad:

Nash,

What the heck did you say?

Apr 3, 2008 - 8:03 am Montjoie:

NASH — COULD YOU SPEAK UP?

Apr 3, 2008 - 8:11 am Sue:

I have to say “thank you Andrew” for this ray of hope in an otherwise gray, rainy day in Southern California. The only unfortunate note I sound is that tens of thousands will still die over the course of the next few decades because of this “religion”. But, at least there is hope for the future.

Apr 3, 2008 - 8:16 am Ron Bingham:

The numbers you quote from Pastor Hormoz were true in 2004. Four years later (2008) that number is close to a million and growing at 30% a month. Iran is rapidly becoming Christian. The Iranian people are hungry for a different way of life. Drug use, prostitution and hopelessness are rampant. Many find comfort and help to lead a better life through Pastor Hormoz’s satellite broadcasts and call in programs.

Apr 3, 2008 - 8:23 am RE:

Communism had its Berlin Wall. Islam has its death penalty for those who convert from Islam.

I do not see much difference between the two.

Apr 3, 2008 - 8:49 am Fred in Calgary:

Defeating this totalitarian ideology under the cloak of religion requires that the ideology be discredited. http://www.faithfreedom.org is a great example of an ex-Muslim deconstructing the ideology by using Islamic texts to demonstrate that Mohammad was a psychopath obsessed with obtaining power.

It appears to me that many of the extremists who embrace Islam are just thugs and sociopaths.
My great fear has been that Islamic culture leads to the severe inbreeding of these thugs and sociopaths - bringing democracy to these people will be a great challenge.

The claim that many are leaving the faith due to their conscience and the desire to be liberated from the thugs is positive - more hard evidence of the exodus of Muslims from the insanity of Islam will be very re-assuring.

Please, keep the Fatwa-Bastards on the run!

fred, infidel.

Apr 3, 2008 - 9:37 am GT:

Brad & Montjoie - Nash clearly said that radicals should be converted to reformists and not switch religions as opportunists. Both of your comments were meant to belittle his opinion and make fun of him. What good does that do? Maybe you should add to the discussion positively by stating what you believe and what you base your life on that makes the world a better place. I agree in part with Nash that radicals should become reformists, changing Islam from the inside out. But, being an Evangelical Christian, I am convinced that the teaching of the Holy Bible is a true benefit to my life and those around me. Therefore, I disagree with Nash that a true conversion to Christianity is done solely to be an “opportunist.” The fruit of the Spirit of God is; Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfullness, Gentleness and Self-Control - Galatians 5:22-23. These are the principles that I base my life on and they are principles worthy of evangelism and conversion.

Apr 3, 2008 - 9:43 am John M:

Romans chapter one
tell us who is not
going to Heaven so it
becomes obvious in John 3:16 those that are. Hatred comes in
various groups including the KKK of the
past

Apr 3, 2008 - 9:57 am Hope Muntz:

Ironically, something that nobody ever mentions is Islam’s status as an offshoot of Christianity and Judaism. Many of the suras were lifted from church ritual. ‘Allah’ is merely Arabic for ‘the lord’ or ‘the god’; the same word is ‘El’ in Hebrew and Aramaic. Solomon, Moses, and Jesus (’Issa’) are all revered in islam to some degree–their shifting status is a subject of great debate within islam–so this provides a template for Muslim converts who feel they are returning to an older ‘truer’ church. Add to that the fact that the ancestors of so many modern-day Muslims were forcibly converted (in many cases relatively recently) from the Byzantine, Syriac, Coptic, and other Eastern churches, and you have an even greater impetus for this movement., which is a sort of ‘back to their roots’ movement in many cases. Though not in the case of the Iranians, Kashmiris, or Africans, of course.

Apr 3, 2008 - 10:05 am Ed:

Have a look at part 29 of this website. It is a fairly lengthy paper written by a messianic Jew, and he talks about Islam relative to the Bible and prophecy. I found it a radically different and plausible perspective on what many in Christianity have been teaching.

http://yourarmstoisrael.org/Articles_new/restoration/?page=home&type=2

Apr 3, 2008 - 10:21 am Valerie:

I have a different recall of the incident with Pope Benedict. Those prominent Muslim scholars, in their reply to the Pope, explicitly claimed their status as an offshoot of Christianity and Judaism. I suspect that the pope was absolutely right: when the answer to his question came, the West was not willing to hear it.

38 leading Muslim religious scholars and leaders including Shaykh Ali Jumu‘ah (the Grand Mufti of Egypt), Shakyh Abdullah bin Bayyah (former Vice President of Mauritania, and leading religious scholar), and Shaykh Sa‘id Ramadan Al-Buti (from Syria), in addition to the Grand Muftis of Russia, Bosnia, Croatia, Kosovo, Slovenia, Istanbul, Uzbekistan, and Oman, as well as leading figures from the Shi‘a community such as Ayatollah Muhammad Ali Taskhiri of Iran; also HRH Prince Ghazi bin Muhammad bin Talal of Jordan Muslim scholars in the West such as Shaykh Hamza Yusuf from California, Professor Seyyed Hossein Nasr of George Washington University in Washington, D.C., and Professor Tim Winter of the University of Cambridge signed a letter to the Pope that said:

http://www.islamicamagazine.com/online-analysis/open-letter-to-his-holiness-pope-benedict-xvi.html

…faith in the One God is not the property of any one religious community. According to Islamic belief, all the true prophets preached the same truth to different people at different times. The laws may be different, but the truth is unchanging.

They acknowledge the two great Commandments: ….”and the second commandment is like it: Thou shalt love they neighbour as thyself.” citing Mark 12:29-31 and Matthew 22:37-40

And they said that their prophet brought nothing new to the message from God, that the message from all three faiths is the same.

I am sure that there are follower of Islam that aren’t ready to hear their answer, either.

Nash, thank you for writing. You have more friends and allies than you know. Good luck, and God bless us all.

NASH, you came through to me quite clearly. Good luck, and God bless.

Apr 3, 2008 - 11:00 am Harold:

Muslims Leaving Islam in Droves… including one Barak Hussein Obama, born to a Muslim father, and by Sharia, automatically a Muslim. His apostacy may be the best thing he has to offer.

Apr 3, 2008 - 11:02 am Bruce:

I believe that this religion (Islam), will eventually end up on the ash heap of history, with only the completely ignorant still trying to save it. All we have to do is continue to pray, remain vigilant, and never, never, never give in to these thugs.

Apr 3, 2008 - 11:06 am ms:

All religion speaks of humanity, truth, justice and righteousness but it is the followers who do not follow in the true sense. Muslims converting to Christainity or Christains converting to Islam is going up for for several hundred years. Most important is that Mosques around the world are successful in attracting old as well as young people for prayers which others failed. I have gone through news papers claiming that Islam is the fastest growing religion in U.S. , U.K. Australia, Japaon & Korea. However your page is excellent. I came across views and some propraganda through this site.Thank you for the informations.

Apr 3, 2008 - 11:38 am Hotpatch 6:

Apparantly there are some few real thinking Muslims who have the sense to see through the muderous, oppressive and controlling tenets of Islam. Bravo to them. Unfortunately, the remaining billion or so (of whom “only” 10 to 15 percent buy into the really radical version) are enough to bring ruin to the rest of us if we let them. Believe me, Islam is NOT our friend, and never will be!

Apr 3, 2008 - 12:27 pm Gerald:

They are leaving islam : perfect, good for us, good for their personal lives. They are adopting evangelism : good for our influence, but, the poor fools, completely useless to them.

Apr 3, 2008 - 1:57 pm BG:

There’s a fascinating (if rather over-long) report by Sandro Magister of L’Espresso on various aspects of Catholic-Muslim relations, focusing on the Pope’s meeting last year with the king of Saudi Arabia:

For the Vatican, King Abdullah Matters More than 138 Muslim Scholars
by Sandro Magister
ROMA, March 31, 2008

Excerpts:

On Saturday, March 29, “L’Osservatore Romano” dedicated two articles to two instances of dialogue between the Catholic Church and Islam, demonstrating how this dialogue is showing promising developments precisely during the days of the controversy over the baptism of Allam, administered by the pope. . . .

At the beginning of the [second] article, the Vatican newspaper quoted Abdullah:

“. . . I have thought of inviting religious authorities to express their views of what is happening in the world, and, God willing, we will begin to organize meetings to with our brothers who belong to the monotheistic religions, among representatives of believers in the Qur’an, the Gospel, and the Bible.”

The Vatican newspaper added that the proposal of King Abdullah has met with the
agreement of the leading Muslim scholars of the kingdom.

But the most interesting highlights added by “L’Osservatore Romano” are two
others.

The first concerns the date of the statement made by Abdullah: March 24, which
for Christians was Easter Monday.

This is to say: precisely while the accusations were erupting against Benedict
XVI over Allam’s baptism, the Saudi king not only ignored the accusations, but
he expressed himself in diametrically opposite tones.

The full English text of Sandro Magister’s report is here:

http://chiesa.espresso.repubblica.it/articolo/195781?eng=y

If “believers in the Qur’an” means the Muslims and “believers in the Gospel” means the Christians, who can the third group be that the king calls “believers in the Bible”? Why yes, it can only be . . . the Jews !!! Quite an achievement for a Pope who has allegedly committed blunder after blunder in his dealings with the Muslim world. Conclusion: Benedict isn’t really a bungler at all. He turns out to have been, all along, a very wily old pope indeed, who seems to have outsmarted the whole worldwide liberal media establishment.

Apr 3, 2008 - 2:29 pm frank darnington:

Welcome to Christianity. Say goodbye to the violent ideology that wants to convert the world. Christianity is a religion of reconciliation, forgiveness, and remaking one’s life.

Apr 3, 2008 - 3:37 pm Nomo:

it is a cult that controls, convinces, and contains with fear

Apr 3, 2008 - 4:18 pm Nomo:

cults convince, control, and contain with fear

Apr 3, 2008 - 4:37 pm Michael:

One day the hope will be that the American people will wake up and see that this Islam religion is killing its own people and ours. This is not a religion of peace as it has no strong people in it that will stand up and condem all the deaths and killings. Where are the muslims when kids are killed or bombs are strapped to handicap kids to kill inicent people. But they will riot over a cartoon picture. That tells you what type of religion they serve.

question: Where is the thanks from the people of Isalm when American soliders have saved millions of them from death?

God Bless America.

Apr 3, 2008 - 5:42 pm mike:

Jesus had one commandment: “This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.” Jhn 15:12

Apr 3, 2008 - 6:24 pm Nabil S Alhamid:

According to the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, the World Christian Database as of 2007 estimated the six fastest growing religions of the world to be Islam (1.84%), the Bahá’í Faith (1.7%), Sikhism (1.62%), Jainism (1.57%), Hinduism (1.52%), and Christianity (1.32%).

CNN:
“The second-largest religion in the world after Christianity, Islam is also the fastest-growing religion. In the United States, for example, nearly 80 percent of the more than 1,200 mosques have been built in the past 12 years.

Some scholars see an emerging Muslim renaissance as Islam takes root in many traditionally Christian communities.”

FP:
“The List: The World’s Fastest-Growing Religions
(No.1 Islam

Growth rate*: 1.84 percent

Adherents: 1.3 billion”

He who wants to be Muslim does so freely. I ask God Allmighty to smite all those who are against truth and may God Allmighty Damm the liers.

Apr 3, 2008 - 7:30 pm MarkJ:

Something to think about:

Christianity began with a seeming defeat…that eventually ended in Victory.

Islam began with a series of military victories…and it’s been basically on a downhill slide ever since.

As for the above comments by “Nabil,” he exemplifies perfectly the cognitive dissonance of Islam: he says conversions are done “freely,” yet in the same breath he asks his God to “smite” and “damn” the rest of us if we don’t see things his way.

By Thor’s Hammer, that’s some insecure, paranoid religion you’ve “freely converted” to, Nabil.

Apr 3, 2008 - 8:16 pm bc:

As Lenin’s first Commissar of Religion once noted, “Religion is like a nail. The harder you drive it, the deeper it goes.

Apr 3, 2008 - 9:12 pm TheMadKing:

I myself have gone back and forth on the whole Islam-is-Peace and Islam-is-Terror argument. Before 9/11 I could have cared less, although I knew there were extremists that had committed acts of terror from the Munich Olympics to the USS Cole. On 9/11 I wanted them all dead and would have gladly engaged in a Hitler-like purge to rid the world of the pestilence that had left 3000 dead and Lower Manhattan a gaping hole and threatened the rest of us with the same.

But would that have been any less extreme or nihilistic than the extremists themselves?

If I have one major gripe, it’s that the ‘extremist minorities’ of Islam, unlike those in the West, often control the machineries of state and use their considerable wealth, power and influence to not only make their own societies Islamist hellholes, but ours as well. They are the same ilk of ‘extremist minorities’ that left Europe a devastataed wasteland during WWII.

That said, I have too much respect for the reasonable Muslim Voices In The Wilderness who are as sick of the violence justified in the name of Islam as were are, like those at http://www.freemuslims.org , to want to line them all up against the wall.

To them, Islam is truly a Religion of Peace which they practice both in word and deed. Their credo is ‘he who saves one life saves the world entire’ and not having theological debates as to whether it is permissible to slaughter even innocent Muslims in Jihad.
Does anyone else see the twisted irony of clerics permitting jihadis to kill fellow Muslims in order to save them?

The problem is the radicals, imams and clerics who wield far too much power and influence, like The Grand Mufti of Syria who threatened the Dutch people over Fitna from no less an esteemed podium than the EU Parliament. If those EU diplomats were more like Churchill and less like Chamberlaine they would have thrown his fascist riot-inciting robed ass in jail on the spot, not given him a standing ovation.

So there it is. Do all we can to strip power from, overthrow or kill the extremists before they do the same to us, shut up, jail or deport the radicals, and dope smack their enablers in the West.

I hate to use the analogy, but the Rev. Jeremiah Wright is of the same stripe as the Grand Mufti, and Obama doesn’t help matters any by whitewashing him i.e. condemning his words,refusing to disavow him and then equivocating later that it was just a few sound bites loped together. Hate is hate, no matter who or what the source. To throw his own slogan back at him, ‘Words Matter.’ We have to stand up or get used to lying down.

Inshallah!

Apr 3, 2008 - 9:20 pm Larry:

I doubt Islam is on much of a decline. I view this article mostly as wishful thinking.

Apr 3, 2008 - 9:21 pm ic:

“After almost five years of war, many young people in Iraq, exhausted by constant firsthand exposure to the violence of religious extremism, say they have grown disillusioned with religious leaders and skeptical of the faith that they preach.”

I thought they (the PC crowds) said Bush’s adventure in Iraq was a boon to Al Quada recruitment. As the worm turns…

Apr 3, 2008 - 9:34 pm Bart:

Nabil - why don’t you quit asking God to do your dirty work for you and start asking your people to actually contribute something to the World?

Apr 3, 2008 - 10:31 pm Brian H:

Nash, or should I say NASH?;
Islam means Submission (to Allah and hence the Koran).
Islam offers peace, of three varieties:
1) Conversion;
2) Submission (dhimmitude, for ‘People of the Book’ only);
3) Death.

‘Moderates’ give you a bit longer to choose.

Apr 3, 2008 - 10:49 pm 物業貸款:

The Pope knows Islam is a “Junk Yard Dog Religion” and apparently Muslims are seeing the truth . God Bless Us All is a Catholic mantra .
“Allah Help Us Kill Infidels” is the Islamic mantra.

Apr 3, 2008 - 10:53 pm Jim C.:

This would certainly be an improvement. But I really think we need more substantial evidence before depending on a report like this.

MarkJ wrote, “Something to think about: Christianity began with a seeming defeat…that eventually ended in Victory.”

Yes, the resurrection could not have taken place without the crucifixion. But, like most people, Christian or not, I’d rather not be crucified in the first place if not absolutely necessary.

Apr 3, 2008 - 10:54 pm Cat:

‘Any man’s death diminishes me’

“On the first day of what is likely to become Britain’s biggest terrorist trial, the prosecutor, Peter Wright QC, told Woolwich Crown Court in east London that the plotters were ‘indifferent’ to the fate of their innocent victims. . .They were ready to detonate liquid explosives on board at least seven flights from Heathrow to the US and Canada” and in a variety of locations in the airport itself. The trial will determine whether the men are guilty as charged.

John Donne was a 17th century English adventurer, Anglican priest, and poet. His philosophy rose out of his belief in the precious importance of every person and the vital connections of community. His famous meditation is an unforgettable expression of Christian spirit -

. . .No man is an island entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main; if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as well as any manner of thy friends or of thine own were; any man’s death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind. And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. . .Meditation XVII

Apr 3, 2008 - 11:37 pm Showan Khurshid:

To TheMadKing:
Don’t pin your hope on reformist Muslims. The verse, in effect says, do not kill innocents, means do not kill innocent Muslims. If the reformist Muslims were honest they would have made it clear that Islam do not accept that anyone can be innocent if he or she is not a Muslim.
Even if a Muslim is honest in regarding to aspiration for reform, he or she is completely powerless. the Quran and Hadith of Islam are completely explicit in inciting violence and oppression against non-Muslims and against apostates who leave Islam.

Apr 4, 2008 - 2:12 am Jabba the Tutt:

Ahmad al-Qataani, leader of the Companions Lighthouse for the Science of Islamic Law in Libya, explains the decline:

So in the section of Africa that we are talking about, the non-Arab section, the number of Muslims does not exceed 150 million people.

Mr al-Qataani, it doesn’t help increase the number of Muslim, when one set of Muslim, Arabized Sudanese commit genocide against another set of Muslims, black African Muslims in Dafur.

Apr 4, 2008 - 3:12 am Broadsword:

The “message from the same three faiths” is not, I say again, NOT the same. The Holy Father points to the importance of reason and Faith. There are natural moral laws which can be known by reason. The Islamist conception of God is not “Immanuel, God with us”, but and unknowable deity to whom one must submit, and from whom commands to do the irrational can issue. (See George Weigel’s book Faith, Reason and the War on Jihadism.) Islam has no calls to love one’s neighbor, but to kill him for unbelief. There is no salvific redemption, and no Christ. There does seem to be this: “He who wants to be Muslim does so freely. I ask God Allmighty to smite all those who are against truth and may God Allmighty Damm the liers.” It would be nice if the thugs, Jihadist, Islamists, terrorists, Wahhabist, al Quedaists, beard-wearing, finger waving, throat slitting murderers, bombers, torturers, and Mosque of the Golden Dome exploders would leave the smiting to God.

Apr 4, 2008 - 4:24 am TheMadKIng:

Showan Khurshid, I do not pin my hopes on Islamic reformists. As I said, they are the Voices In The Wilderness. They are The White Rose of the Muslim world. Too many other moderate Muslim voices, even those in the West, have been silenced by the same fear and threats of violence as we kaffirs have been subjected to, only it’s more personal and real in their communities. I’m sure that watching EU dipolmats cheering the Grand Mufti of Syria on for basically threatening the Dutch people with ‘unrest, violence and bloodshed’ over Fitna does not inspire them much to speak out.

For example the world-renowned critic of radical Islam, Dr. Wafa Sultan, had to go into hiding with her family because the radical Islamist Egyptian sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi issued a fatwa of death against her. Her heinous crime? She stated on Al-Jazeera TV that the Danish cartoonists had the right to publish the cartoons. Why is this guy still walking around free while so many like Sultan have to hide in fear of violent death?

We in the West provide considerable economic and military aid to Egypt. There should be conosiderable strings attached whereby we can pressure them to make examples of Qaradawi and others, but we do not.

It MUST be a concerted worldwide effort to hold to account Islamists like Qaradawi and the Grand Mufti of Syria by ALL of us in the West.
This Chamberlaine-like ‘diplomacy’ and capituation to the radicals of Islam must be replaced in Western governments with the iron will and words of Churchill, particularly in the EU. Otherwise, will we be required to storm the beaches of Fortress Europe a third time because of feckless diplomats and governments?

It would be a monumental effort requiring ALL of us, Muslim and non-Muslim alike, to face these modern-day Nazis down.

Not holding my breath on that one. The lesson of history, it would seem, is that we do not learn the lessons of history. Or, should I say, we always seem to have to re-learn them the hard way.

Apr 4, 2008 - 4:52 am Brian Macker:

This is good “news” and I’m an atheist.

Apr 4, 2008 - 5:44 am Joel H:

While living in a Middle Eastern country from 2002 to 2006, I met several Iranian converts to Christ, mostly, if not all, refugees. Despite oppression from Muslim neighbors, the converts’ new faith was strong and their hearts full of love for God and their fellow man.

Concerning Christian missionaries and their converts, I’ve seen exaggerated figures in the Islamic media before. I suspect the exaggerations may be an attempt to rouse Muslims to action against the spread of the Gospel.

Apr 4, 2008 - 7:23 am Troy:

This response from Islamic missiologist Ben Hegeman. Ben’s PhD is from Univ of Utrecht; he’s spent 17 years as a missionary to Muslims in west Africa (Benin).

It smells of the folly of David when he counted the warriors in the 12-tribes, and begs the question: ‘for whose purpose are these numbers being made up?’. There is no way 16,000 Muslims convert to Christianity per day; it is closer between 16 and 160. Knowing what we do about how apostates from Islam are treated, we would know of the consequences everywhere. We could wish this fiction was true but we’d be reading of gladiator-styled massacres if it were so.

Feel free to pass this on, but I doubt it will stop it from circulating….

Apr 4, 2008 - 8:10 am catmar:

Quote

Bruce:

unquote

Bruce to late, they give in every single day, especially so in the UK. I am very afraid of what will happen in my Country in a few years time. The Country is being driven by the EU who are in my opinion “Evil”.

Apr 4, 2008 - 8:26 am Don Meaker:

Islam continues to grow because of the high birthrate. Its promulgation in the west is dependent on immigration, and the welfare state.

To srike at the welfare state is to strike against violent muslim cults.

Apr 4, 2008 - 8:34 am BG:

Troy and other doubters: You’ll find some even more credulity-straining “statistics” here:

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/ChuckColson/2008/03/24/they_want_jesus_instead_why_muslims_convert

Excerpt:

“According to the website Islam Watch, in Russia, some two million ethnic Muslims converted to Christianity last year. Ten thousand French Muslims converted, as did 35,000 Turkish Muslims. In India, approximately 10,000 people abandoned Islam for Christianity.

“In his book Epicenter, author Joel Rosenberg details amazing stories of Muslims converting to Christianity. In Algeria, the birthplace of St. Augustine, more than 80,000 Muslims have turned to Christ in recent years. This, despite the stiff opposition from Islamic clerics who have passed laws banning evangelism.

“In Morocco, newspaper articles openly worry that 25,000 to 40,000 Muslims have become followers of Christ in recent years.”

Apr 4, 2008 - 10:17 am Miraj:

I think people should be free to convert to whichever faith they like. I am a Muslim who almost converted to Christianity. But what made me stop was the complete lack of authenticity in the religion. The Gospels are not written in the language Christ spoke. The Trinity cannot be found anywhere in the Bible. Neither can other fundamental Christian doctrines. Indeed, Christian doctrine is so irrational as to be absurd. Christians claim God is love. But what kind of loving God kills His own innocent son? And what is this imbecilic notion of original sin?

Islam, on the other hand, is logically consistent. God is one. God is not a binity or trinity or dodeckinity. Yes, at times Islam was spread by the sword. But where do we find in the history of Muslims the kinds of genocides committed by the Catholic Church on natives in Latin American? Where was there an Islamic Inquisition? Which Muslim scientist was burned at the stake for proclaiming the world is round?

I agree that Muslims need to take responsibility for the ills in their societies. But where do you find among Muslims the sorts of denial and coverups that we have seen in the Anglican and Catholic churches over pedophilia?

Just some thoughts.

Apr 4, 2008 - 11:15 am Don Schenk:

Here are some websites about religious affiliation in the USA that I find interesting:

http://religions.pewforum.org/reports

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/003445print.html

http://cara.georgetown.edu/rel022808.pdf

Apr 4, 2008 - 11:20 am ZenaWarriorPrincess:

nice try Miraj, to say you almost converted to Christianity is a bold face lie when you cannot back up what the heck is logical about islam.
your found Mo was no prophet, his legacy he had created can be found in the way he live his life, he was a thief, killer, and pedophile. Jesus last words was to ask God his father to forgive those who killed him, where as Mo’s last words were his orders to kill all non-Muslims. now can you see how one might understand that Islam was basically spread by the sword, as any sane person would reject this cult of death called Isalm!

Apr 4, 2008 - 11:55 am Bonnie_:

I pray every day for the conversion of Islam to Christianity.

I don’t hate Muslims. I hate their religion. When I read of honor killings, mutilation, burkhas, women denied health care or even the right to sing or dance or feel the sun on their face, when I read of polygamy and human slavery, I don’t hate the people who do these things. I hate the religion that turned them into creatures who could do this.

I pray for the freedom of all Muslims to be set free from the chains of their religion. This article gives me hope.

Apr 4, 2008 - 12:24 pm devorgilla:

Miraj, thank you for your thoughts. Being a Christian is a very personal thing. It is very different from Islam with its certainties, rules and regulations. There are umpteen forms, and we don’t agree on every point. All it really requires is that you read the gospels and accept Jesus’ mission. How you understand that mission is pretty much up to you. Doctrines written by acknowledged experts exist to help Christians understand Jesus’ mission and guide them to it. You don’t have to accept all or any of them. They are secondary literature, they don’t have the same authority as Jesus’ life, words and work.

Jesus taught in parables because he wanted people to see beyond the outside, to an inner world of the Spirit where Reality was. He wanted to open the eye of the heart to the miraculous truth of Life that is hidden from us by the ‘hard heart, and the worldly mind’. It goes without saying that being a Christian isn’t easy. Most of us fail, most of the time, sadly.

Christianity is really a charismatic religion in which the dynamic agency of the Holy Spirit is very important. We believe that the Holy Spirit is present in all ages and can reach all men if only we open our hearts to God’s message as revealed by Jesus.

That’s why Jesus was against blindly following rules; he thought it took people away from the spirit of the law. Following rules in a blind empty way makes you a hypocrite; it is the inspiration that counts. Some people are uncomfortable with that, but others find it liberating. ‘The truth shall set you free’.

I can only advise you to read the Gospels for yourself and see if this strange and wonderful man’s life ’speaks’ to you. If it does, then you are a Christian. Jesus said: ‘Seek and ye will find; ask and it shall be answered you’. What is essential is faith in him; ‘for unless ye believe, ye cannot understand’. Spiritual search is at the heart of Christianity - not being told what to do.

I know that’s tough, especially at first, but if you feel the inspiration of Jesus, you are guided, and you know what to do.

Apr 4, 2008 - 1:05 pm marcus:

I just listened to a presentation by Ms. Irshad Manji (”The Trouble with Islam Today”). She is a Canadian, Muslim rationalist, challenging Muslims to question their faith. Her book is a good, fast read. I’ve seen Ms. Hirsan Ali on C-Span. She is an apostate, social scientist, and devastating critic of Islam. I learned in many settings that if you are betting against women, especially moms, you are probably making a losing bet.

Mr. Miraj injects into the thread the usual Muslim anti-Christian talking points: no Trinity in the Bible, etc. Actually all Christian doctrines are explicit or highly implicit in the Bible. Exploring these is part of the fun of being a Christian. The self-sacrifice of the Son is a mystery of profound depth, an endless source of meaning and occasion for meditation and prayer. (The problem for Islam, in contrast, is the usual dynastic one in which there are family claimants to power and authority, resulting in Sunni-Shia discord, etc.)

Miraj makes the usual point, to turn to another item, that Allah is One. Is Allah One? John of Damascus said, “Then ask a Muslim how the Koran, which is eternal according to Muslims, can be co-existent with Allah. The Muslim will run away in disgust with you.” Is God One? Well, yes. And Christians are just more willing to dwell on the mystery that Muslim run away from: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,” etc.

About Christian savagery? Yes, but we see eventually that Jesus leads us away from self-serving savagery, e.g. slavery. It’s hard to justify nastiness by invoking the teachings of Jesus. The Crusades? Mainly a response to Muslim attacks on pilgrims to the Holy Land, with the usual hope for profit larded into the motivation.

This thread has been fun to read. Thank you, everyone, for posting!

As the Tibetans say: Lha-gyal-lo—–Victory to the gods!

Apr 4, 2008 - 3:06 pm AST:

They should read the Book of Mormon.

Apr 4, 2008 - 5:59 pm SC88:

Miraj, some thoughts in return –

Some of the doctrines of various Christian groups don’t make much sense to me either. Doesn’t matter. The Bible is THE source, study it and develop your own understanding. And the inspired word of God in the Bible is universal and can be translated into any language. Not true of the Koran; Muslims insist it can only be read correctly in Arabic.

Muslim genocides? The massacre of the Beni al Quraish Jews by Mohammad himself. The estimated (from Muslim records) 100 million Hindus killed in the conquest of India. The Armenian genocide. The current slaughter in Darfur. That’s just off the top of my head.

When death and mutilation is the Allah-given penalty for apostasy (and many other offenses), every day is Islamic Inquisition Day.

Sexual and physical abuse and cover-ups? This seems to be the fate of a large majority of the foreign women who fill maid and housekeeper positions in wealthy Arab countries. Several Saudis have been prosecuted for keeping servants in virtual slavery here in the USA. You might also want to check out Dr. Nancy Kobrin’s study ‘Sheik’s New Clothes: the Psychoanalytic Roots of Islamic Suicide Terrorism’. Dr Kobrin’s study describes “barbarous family and clan dynamics in which children, both boys and girls, are routinely orally and anally raped by male relatives.”

Tell me again how wonderful Islam is.

Apr 4, 2008 - 7:10 pm Ed:

Mike, Jesus might have had one commandment but God had ten, the first of which was, “Thou shalt have no other gods before me”. Why do you put Jesus before God? Not even Jesus can save you if you tick God off by ignoring His commandments. Ask the Israelis. They have a long history of it.

Apr 4, 2008 - 8:12 pm truth teller:

Marcus,
starting wid u,
The Crusades? Mainly a response to Muslim attacks on pilgrims to the Holy Land, with the usual hope for profit larded into the motivation.
R u naive,or has any idea about history!!!Crusade was mainly launched for looting and money.Even they did not spare their faith brother orthodox christians in constantipole.No christian pilgrimage was killed.Show me a evidence.N who is non belivers in islam.Is it the christian or jew.Answer is no. They r turmed as people of the book.If christian n jews were really treated as non belivers muslims would 1st destroy church of bethelhem or church of jerusalem.But muslim never did even after the horrible thing crusade.Even till now around 12-15% arabs r coptive christian around the world.They r christians for generations.N in islam it is forbidden to convert jews n christian by force.Very few incident happened like that by certain ruler.There was nothing to do wid islam wid that.12-15% arabs r christians is the best proof i guess.Same goes for the jews.They found their golden age under mulim rule.Go search.Yes u r talking about banu qurayza stuff.But do u knw the actual history !!! or u r a victim of zionist propaganda machine!!! They were not killed .They were punished according to their dutornomy for the crime of breaking treaty of helping maccans to kill innocent women n child during the battle of treanch by their own chossen ally.
Now lets come to the hindu stuff. That muslims kill 100 million hindu.Nothing more than a propaganda launched by the british during their colonial time.In recent time even hindu professors said 80 million hindu was not declined but raised by 32.5 million during muslim time.
It is the christians who has killed during the crusade,ethnic americans,indeginious australian n so on.
N u r saying islam was spread by sword.!! wat a joke have u ever looked how christianity spread.
just go to this site:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Ancient_Roman_religion
n u will find that wat happened to many of yr ancestors.The christianity which was permitted to grow among ancient european religion n to borrow their many belief turned to percicution all the ancient religion when constantie converted.They were started to destroy all the pegan tample despite warning from constantie not to do that.This is origin of yr christianity.
The so called son of god/god theory was taken from attis/horus/zeus/Mithra all the sun deity.Invented by paul n implimented by constantie in the counsil of nicaea.
Many of u talked about pope is well aware about “Islam is a junk yard religion”
Did any of try to ask y the pagan fish hat in the head of pope whom u r talking about knowing the islam.
Here r some links of origin of pegan christianity.If u have guds than watch it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNkthC-yWYU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auz1oF6pfJc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ICqSxNA6AA&feature=related
N trinity lol!!!
just search in the google
“Origin of trinity”
U will find wat yr church father never say 2 all of u fools.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontrinitarian
go n see.
Yr catholics pope still pray to different statue n saints.sends some prayer even to this day to mary as mother of god.
This is so funny that many of you littarate fool even knowing this do not ask question.
But the main fact is that more than 50% european has abandoned christianity.More n more churches remain empty.Soon will be followed to other continent especially to china n india.When people of india will come to knw that
this r the same people who had “COORUPTED THEIR RELIGIOUS BOOK BHAVISSIYA PURANA AFTER 1792 DURING THE TIME OF 1ST PRINTING” n now they r using the books to convert tham by showing them there is jesus,moses in yr scripture,all the 18 other puna is a fabble written in yr bhavisiya purana,Look it is written prophet muhammad is a evil,look it is also written how queen victoria would come to see all of u light n it is also known that there would be a british perlament in kolkakata in the early 19th n later 18th century.
This is the most heinus crime that yr christian missionaries done by corrupting the religious book of the most oldest religion of the world.
n when the chinies will come 2 know that jesus is fabble of budhha in christianity which is created by helenized n gnostic christianity which is propsed by paul.
ohh in modern time it is found that old testament is nothing more than a fabble written 500 or 600 years after the event, not by god but by some1 who wanted to organize the people from foreign threat.n it was written by 5 group of people, e,j,d,p n the last group edited all the previous four group.yr so called elohim is the cannanitie penthion deity which is chief god of 70 other god such as ra ball etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahweh#Cultus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim

HERE FOR THE CHRISTIANS MUST READ
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_mythology#Important_examples_of_Christian_mythology
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_myth_hypothesis

Ohhh here r the dead sea scrolls translation.Which the church tried to hide for years.This gives a example how the SON OF GOD theory developed in palestine during 2nd century bc to 68 ad.
http://100777.com/spiritual/1328
I have talked about a lot about christianity forget about the above.Just asking u a simple question wat many of thought from the child hood by church n that is jesus christ rose up in the 3rd day.But any of u ever try 2 count whether it is really 3rd day or 1n half day.
Look in jews law they start counting day from the evening from when sun set off.That means when jesus died n burried according to gospel it is already saturday.so jesus left in the tomb saturday night,saturday morning n sunday night.In the sunday morning they came out ,through it may be possible he came out in the saturday night or morning or sunday night.That means jesus remain in the tomb for 2 night and 1 day at best.
Now my question 2 all of u learned man is 2 NIGHT n 1 DAY CALLED 3RD day.
Ask yr own theology.Wat u r thouht by church.In the mark 16:9-20 was later addition.It was end when mary heard jesus was not on the tomb.The later jesus came out n go every country is the later addition by the vaticans.as we dnt have any known gospel b4 codex vaticanas.
just go 2 wikipedia about the 4 gospel.There r many things that many of u needed to knw.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Mark
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Mathew
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Luke
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_John

Yes i admit there r many problem in the islamic high authority rite now n they r not that much organized like the church or other missionary organaization.But things r also changing.All most all the clerics r illitarate ,but now at present all the clerics r now started to be educated ,even only last month for the 1st time saudi decided to train all the imam for interfaith dialouge which was not b4.All the other countries clerics r not trained for inter faith dialouge n dnt trained to answer the so called contradiction in quran that lead them to fell amberrased in the africa n some other country.Things r changing.N most of the convert that missionaries got in the africa r extremly poor ppl by providing them money,food or medicine.So it is not a matter of fact true convert .When any other religious group even hindu or budhhist go n spent some money they will get convert.In recent years muslims r also organizing missionary activity which was bsent from 19th century.
Ohh by the way like to finish wid so called extrimism.
Who did 9-11 or 7-7 london bombing or bali or madrid bombing!!!
It was not al qaeda or islamic extrimist.
cordinating attack by cia n mossaad.
There r hundreds of evidence that it was an inside job.If u look at the pattern of this attacks u will find that all these attacks were done r a certain intention.
9-11-to go for a pre emptive attack n to impliment PROJECT OF NEW AMERICAN CENTURY.
U can search internet for detail info .It was created to stublish a global control by usa.
afghanistan war-a stratigic place to control both china,russia,pakistan n iran.N to route the gas n oil from caspian sea.This was planned from 1979.N this is usa which went to different religious clerics n told them for a zihad against the russians n named the war as “HOLY WAR”.
Through zihad does not mean holy war.It is a product of christians in the medival ages.N so called alqaeda is a product of usa which trained n armed it.
Iraq war.It was a stratigic war to gain a strong control in the middle east.N there is also some stratigic reason behind the war
1.to gain a control of iraqi oil n to control its tap to control china by threating it of stopping oil supply.so for india.
2.For israel.
3.for making profit of wall streat n military industrial complex.
4.to spread gospel.all the baptist n evengelical christian organization lobbied for this genocidal war so that they can get some convert wid the msg of love after the war to the war torn ppl.
This was degined by paul wolfowitch,richard pearl n benjamin netyahu of isral by a project named a clean break.
Wat ever is happening in the mulim world or in the middle east is just a by product of that.
Here is some info about the project”A CLEAN BREAK”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clean_Break:_A_New_Strategy_for_Securing_the_Realm#Analysis

If u read this u will find that wat ever so called extrimism and mass murder is happening is the product of jews neocon n evil evangelical society conspiracy not islamic extremism.

2006-lebanon war.Soory once again the war started by the israli not hezbullah..N israeli soldires were abducted from lebanon not cross border raid in israel.Israel was planning to attack lebanon to take control of its southern part from the 2003.

LASTLY SOME PRROF THAT ALQAEDA IS NOT AS IT SEEMS:

Search google:”ROBIN KOOK THERE IS NO ALQAEDA”
robin kook is a former british secratary.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fakealqaeda.html
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/osamatape.html

n plz visit 100777.com for more information.
thankz n have a good day

Apr 5, 2008 - 3:01 pm Roni:

FYI….
There are over 1 billion muslims in the planet, but most of them are poor & uneducated. For example Bangladesh is the 3rd largest muslim country with 150+ millions of muslims, but only 23% are educated among them. FYI….people in Bangladesh who can barely sign their own signature are considered educated. Most of the village people don’t have food to eat. Do you really think these people care what religion they practice if they can’t eat? I’m sure India & Pakistan are not different…

Now the question is how many muslims are there who are educated (at least completed high school)?

Apr 5, 2008 - 4:26 pm Ranger:

For those participating in the debate between the relative merits of Islam vs Christianity, I would invite you to reduce the discussion to its simplest and most basic form.

The debate is not between Christianity and Islam. It is not a discussion of which religion has created the greatest atrocities. The question is between the character and teachings of the founders of the two faiths; Jesus and Mohammed. Forget the distortions of their purported followers throughout the centuries. Look to the roots. Look at the two men. Look at their claims, teachings, character, personal morality, and documentable history. Compare the freedom, or lack thereof, they give their followers to continue to follow, or to depart. Jesus allowed Judas to leave and reap his own destruction. Mohammed will inflict death himself on those who depart. Jesus seeks voluntary heart conversion that brings both personal peace, and collectively, societal peace. Mohammed enforces his brand of peace by threat of death.

The ultimate compulsion to follow Christ may include the fear of hell, but the driving force is the beauty of his love. “There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear,” John says. It is that magnetism that ultimately keeps the disciple near his teacher. Does the same magnetism exist in Islam, or is there an overwhelming fear factor of physical retribution meted out by Allah’s disciples that is commanded in Allah’s book that keeps the faithful, faithful.

Jesus and his teachings are qualitatively different from what you find with Mohammed. Jesus is infinitely superior. He is the one worthy of allegiance.

Apr 5, 2008 - 10:09 pm peace within:

truth teller, blah blah blah. ever hear of spell check? i tried to read your post and wanted to throw myself off a cliff afterwards.

Apr 5, 2008 - 11:41 pm Goola Begg:

This author’s allegation of people leaving Islam in droves is pure fantasy. He is obviously a failed missionary of some sort. Pinning all his hopes on the pipe dream that Jesus (peace be upon him) died on the cross for his sins. Islam is based on PURE DIVINE REVELATION – the Quran. This divine book has challenged people like this author and his supporters, admirers etc to proof it false. The garbage emanating from the comments section is ignorance personified.

Bring forth your proof and stop using shock and awe tactics – show us that your decadent way life is what GOD has ordained. Challenge the REVELATIONS in the Quran and stop using nasty tactics of insults upon insults. Surely your way of life holds NO salvation

Apr 6, 2008 - 3:56 am aloysiusmiller:

Goola Begg,

Please watch Geert Wilders movie Fitna. It provides all the reason anyone might need to reject Islam based on the pure revelation of the Koran.

Apr 6, 2008 - 6:29 am Kafir:

Miraj:

“The Gospels are not written in the language Christ spoke”

We consider this a good thing. Everyday Christians can read and understand God’s Word for themselves. This is why there are Protestants and Catholics. Prior to that, Catholic priests conducted mass in Latin and the Bible was only printed in Latin. This gave the priest exclusive control of the interpretation of the scripture. This opened up the door for abuse and when Martin Luther had had enough, Protestantism was born.

That abuse is evident in your examples of the Inquisition and the forced conversions in South America. However, please note that those were done by the church in Rome. The Eastern Orthodox church that represented Christianity from Greece eastward did not engage in that sort of thing. Neither did the Protestants who were the primary settlers of North America.

Catholics themselves are not evil. This is just what happens when you give clergy that much power over your life. What other religion gives its clergy that much power? Islam.

“where do you find among Muslims the sorts of denial and coverups that we have seen in the Anglican and Catholic churches over pedophilia?”

Many of these charges are thirty and forty years old. In those days, one did not question one’s priest. These days you can and that’s why these things are being revealed. In Muslim countries, questioning a member of the Islamic clergy will get you imprisoned or worse. If you take away that threat, you will see the same sort of things. Perhaps not necessarily of a sexual nature, because I think that’s due to the celibacy requirement for Catholic priests, but I’ll bet you’d find ethical problems among Imams dealing with money and power.

“…what kind of loving God kills His own innocent son?”

A God who needs to understand his creation better by experiencing birth, temptation, and death.

“…where do we find in the history of Muslims the kinds of genocides committed by the Catholic Church on natives in Latin American?”

Pretty much everywhere Islam is practiced outside of Mohammed’s hometown.

Apr 6, 2008 - 7:10 am Mr X:

“where do you find among Muslims the sorts of denial and coverups that we have seen in the Anglican and Catholic churches over pedophilia?”

Uh, you might want to check out the boys “… of eternal freshness, like pearls” which you Muslims are all promised in Paradise.

Here are a few other places to look:

“The Boys of the Taliban”
http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=D51B2383-01A0-4896-B174-19F115EC0942

And some more (full text of articles at link):
http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/654

Startled marines find Afghan men all made up to see them 5/02

2 Shh, It’s an Open Secret: Warlords and Pedophilia (New York Times) 2/02

3 Kandahar’s Lightly Veiled Homosexual Habits (Los Angeles Times) 4/02

4 Kandahar comes out of the closet (Times of London) 12/02

5 Kandahar: Closely Watched Pashtuns–A Critique of Western Journalists’ Reporting Bias about ‘Gay Kandahar 4/03

6 Afghanistan has its first official AIDS deaths 6/04

7 Interview with Michael Luongo on his return from ‘gay Afghanistan’: on Afghani male intimacy and sex 7/04

Apr 6, 2008 - 10:26 am Believer:

Miraj — you seem to be a very thoughtful, bright man. And sometimes, in matters of faith especially, our own powers of reasoning and logic can be a stumbling block.

I’m not one to memorize scripture, but I believe somewhere the Bible says in reference to the crucifixion “the ways of God are foolishness to man” - and then says “God has chosen the foolish things of this world to confound the wise, and the weak things of the world to confound the mighty.”

To my mind, I cannot separate God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. They are One. Yet I know how they have manifested themselves to me differently - like three different people. And if God is both the Father and the Son, then is it not Himself that He has crucified? What greater love can there be?

I encourage you to go in search of that love. All God requires of us is a heart filled with love for Him. One wanting to know Truth. He will know the sincerity of our hearts - and He will honor our efforts.

I’ve been overjoyed to read of Muslims to whom Christ revealed Himself when their hearts cried out to know Truth. They had been wrestling with their faith, but clearly their love for God was tremendous. How I wish more Christians were so devoted!

I often wonder if it is the measure of our devotion to God that determines the measure of the revelation of Himself to us. We cannot judge one another, but consider this:

However much we receive from Him, it is all glorious.

Apr 7, 2008 - 3:52 am The Chaplain:

We have been posting basics on this subject with web pages the Internet for five years.

Our thought is that only a few studious people understand Islam and the basics of personal faith. Practicing Islam does not satisfy that primary human desire. 2,500 new readers a month read our http://www.islam-101.org.

Abraham as the starting point of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam is discussed at http://www.abraham-101.org. Personal faith is examined at http://www.faith-101.info.

Apr 7, 2008 - 7:16 am Ben:

It may be possible to accelerate the process of mass apostasy & conversion by planting the seeds of doubt & introspection. My plan involves dramatizing the Qur’an & Sunnah and giving it global distribution. Let the Ummah see Moe reciting situational scripture, murdering, raping, warmongering & practicing lechery.
http://www.petitiononline.com/MGP05/petition.html

Apr 7, 2008 - 3:11 pm Allen:

Beleiver.
“All God requires of us is a heart filled with love for Him. One wanting to know Truth. He will know the sincerity of our hearts - and He will honor our efforts”. What B.S. Do you have any idea what you beleive and why you beleive it? Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things
and desperately sick. Romans 3:10 as it is written: None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks God…no one does good.
The last thing you want is God looking at your heart.
What do you believe?

Apr 8, 2008 - 3:35 am Ling Raj:

Did the “truth teller” ever read history ?
Muslims kings and generals, in their own words, have written how many millions they killed in hope of converting India into an Islamic state. Soldiers were given money for every head they cut off and brought to their general.

Hindus women were taken away as sex slaves, prompting many of them to burn themsleves rather be enslaved. The Sati system started as a response to predatory muslim invasion of India. Hindu children were enslaved and forced to convert.

People were offered money, lands, government jobs to convert on a routine basis. Heavy taxes were levied on Hindus and their temples, monasteries, schools destroyed. Go to any part of India and ruins of large ancient temples will confound any “truth teller”. Indeed, some of the early mosques were built from ruble of Hindu temples, as evidenced by carvings still seen on them.

Fortunately, the faith of the Hindus was strong enough and despite 800 years of brutal rule, only 25 % of India became muslim - majority being immigrants or children of slaves.

Hinduism is the only religion and Indian culture is the only one that has managed to survive direct rule of mullas and missionaries. Despite a 1000 years of foreign rule (800 by muslims and 200 by christians), Hindus are still practicing their faith and culture in India. This is a testament to their inner strength and resolve.

No amount of playing with stats or wishful thinking can diminish the TRUTH. Fortunately, there are enough people who still know the truth to denounce the lies of anyone masquerading as “Turth Teller”.

Apr 8, 2008 - 6:59 am Believer:

Allen:

What do I believe? Every word you’ve quoted from the Bible. And every word I’ve written.

A search of our hearts is the last thing any man wants to engage in - we prefer the comfort of the ignorance of our sin. If we draw closer to God, our trust in Him grows and our desire to please Him as well. Hopefully, we become obedient to the first commandment to “love the Lord thy God with ALL thy heart.” (emphasis mine)

Too many of us have a lukewarm interest in God at best. But if there is something - or someone - we love, aren’t we eager to spend every minute with them? This doesn’t mean we can’t go on with our daily lives. But the depth of our desire to know Truth, and to submit to His teaching, is critical.

And God knows when our hearts are ready to receive Him, and makes way for us to journey with Him.

We should not fear submitting to God in this way. I can personally attest to this: at the very moment God reveals that sin to the believer, He takes it away, replacing it with His Holy Spirit. There is no greater joy. The heart is changed. He sees his fellow man with new eyes. And it is the work of the Holy Spirit in the heart - not any good thing in us - that allows us to love as God has loved us.

I can also personally attest that the “saved” is not now perfect. He must daily surrender to the working of the Holy Spirit, otherwise he falls into the “old” ways. But God is faithful to the surrendered heart: He returns us to joy if we’ve fallen into the hell our thoughts and actions might take us. We need only return to Him with a grieved heart.

I believe these things, Allen, because I’ve been blessed to experience them. And one more thing if I may - my singular devotion to God, and Christ, began when my life had become grievously wretched.

I am now thankful for that wretchedness, and know how true are these words also: “Blessed are you who weep and mourn” - for if my life had been swimmingly wonderful, I might not have turned to Him and received the greatest blessing of all.

Apr 8, 2008 - 8:16 pm FP:

>>
Bonnie_:

I pray every day for the conversion of Islam to Christianity.

I pray for the freedom of all Muslims to be set free from the chains of their religion. This article gives me hope.
>>

Nr 1-
Females should be controled.

Nr2-
Islam is not the reason the tribal people of those regions have the gender dynamic they do. There tribal culture –older than Islam–is.

Apr 9, 2008 - 3:32 am Lutheran refugee congregation of Nzerekore Guinea:

Please send us your new by post
Lutheran Refugee congregation of Nzerekore
P O Box 174
Nzerekore Guinea

Apr 9, 2008 - 9:35 am Allen:

Beleiver
let me tell you what I beleive. I beleive that around two thousand years ago Jesus Christ died on the cross for my sin. When he said it is finished and sacrificed his life for me he showed me his love for me. It’s not about my heart or my experience. It’s about Jesus’ work on the cross.
The muslim has had an experience also. It is his experience and his journey, as does the atheist. They know in their hearts they are right. You see the heart is not to be trusted. Jesus is.
The work of the Spirit is to point to Christ. Jn6:13,14
If the spirit is telling you to look to your experience or your heart, beware.
As far as being obedient to the command ‘Love the lord with all your heart and sole and mind’ or any commandment; I prefere to rely on the work that Jesus did on the cross for me.
There is this little thing called sin that makes me unable to obey the way God’s holiness requires.
Praise God for Jesus’ work on the cross.
allen

Apr 9, 2008 - 9:40 am Believer:

Allen:

What I found, in my journey as a Christian, is that it is not enough to accept God’s sacrifice for us. We are naturally inclined to receive His forgiveness and leave it at that. But there is something that doesn’t sit so well with us: the call for us to “take up our cross and follow Him.” We’d rather avoid that one.

Yes, praise God for giving us His Son; His IS the Way, the Truth and Life.

And it often takes a good, hard look into our hearts - with God leading us through His Holy Spirit - to discover how short we fall from that high calling. There is a sin that leads to death. Do you know which one? This is the sin - when revealed, as in The Revelation - that blessedly sends us to the foot of the Cross in love and thanksgiving for the work He has done in our heart.

Yes, we can as Christians say “Thank you Lord for what You did” - but doesn’t Christ Himself also warn that to many of us He will say, “I never knew you”? And “If you hate any man, you hate Me”?

I posted some comments on more of my beliefs on Chetwynd’s Open Letter to Obama - the last one being quite close to the end. I’m happy to continue this dialogue. God bless you, Allen.

Apr 9, 2008 - 2:18 pm robert a:

The average American, who is oblivious to the existential threat of Islam to Western Civilization, needs to wrap his/her mind around two facts. (1) Jesus died for his beliefs-Mohammed made everybody else die for his. (2) Every major religion espouses some version of the Golden Rule-except Islam.

Apr 12, 2008 - 10:22 pm Brian:

“Liberals” in this country will run down Christianity at every opportunity, but I found a surprising reaction when I remarked to one that it would be better if Muslims became non-observant and lax about their religion, much as most westerners are with regards to Christianity.

He was appalled. Why would we want Muslims to not observe their religion?

Unbelievable. The left continually ridicule religion when it comes to Christianity, but they are fully supportive of Islam, which, last I checked, is chalk full of the same sort of things they claim to not like about Christianity (prudishness, belief in a non-scientific god, etc.).

So what the left really hates about Christianity, is its practitioners. What they love about Islam is its practitioners and the ones they like the most are the ones that hate the west.

And that’s the core of it all - the left’s seething hatred of western civilization.

Apr 13, 2008 - 8:14 am travis:

Where did you come up with that one billion number when refering to the population of Africa? While I agree with your estimate of 316 million as to the number of african muslims, last I heard the population of africa was only 660 million, making the 316 million muslims easily the dominant religion by far. I don’t agree that islam is waning in Africa. They’re killing as many non-muslims as they can, as fast as they can, and the world just sits back and watches in morbid fascination.

Apr 13, 2008 - 12:11 pm Anna:

Islam is not yet in decline..unfortunately.
The Mahdi will be the embodiment of the Christians anti-christ, or as it were “the beast”
who will eventually be slain..thats the good news
the bad is things aint going to get any better soon folks, so be prepared.Wish I could believe different though.

Apr 13, 2008 - 2:46 pm Wolfie:

Jesus had lots of women followers and several helped keep his ministry functioning. Jesus engaged women in conversation whenever He could, such as the woman at the well and his relationship with Lazurus’s sisters Martha and Mary. It was women who had the honor of first discovering the empty tomb and of telling the Eleven about it, and to their credit they did not dismiss them.

Mo: Burka them!

FP (from an earlier post): Nr 1-Females should be controled.

~~~~~~~~~

Christianity wants to spread the message of God’s love and salvation through Christ to all by example and by honest intellectual discourse so that one can freely make a commitment to accept Jesus as his or her personal Lord and Savior.

Islam want to kill the infidel.

Seems pretty straightforward as to which is from the Devil and which is from God.

Apr 14, 2008 - 6:09 am Guillaume:

This is interesting, if true. I can only offer an anecdote.

I come from a conservative Catholic background. I recently married into a conservative Sunni family from Egypt. They are a prominent family throughout the Middle East. Family members range from Turkey, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and the Gulf States, to Germany, France, Australia, UK, and the US. I know from personal experience that several family members attend evangelical Christian services. One woman, my wife’s cousin, is very interested in the RC Church and asks me questions about the Faith. In public, of course, these people still profess Islam, for obvious reasons.

I dislike modern Christianity for its liberalism, egalitarianism, softness, and modernism. However, Middle Easterners (Arabs) tend to be a pretty conservative, pious people, so maybe if more of them become Christian, they have will have a beneficial effect on the church.

Apr 14, 2008 - 10:08 am BG:

Are you aware that the Vatican is a Zionist Occupied Entity? It says so here (and it’s a Muslim website, so it must be true):

http://www.islamunity.com/blogs/?p=92

And there’s further inside information on the recent history of the papacy:

“Late John Paul II (son of a Polish Jewish mother) did started interfaith dialogues with Saudi Wahhabi religious leaders. As for Pope Benedict XVI (called “Nazi Pope” by 70 Jewish websites surveyed in 2004) - is Jewish agent planted in Vatican. How can a Catholic expect his Holy Pope to visit an Anti-Christ’s Synagogue during his coming visit.

“Magdi Allam is nothing but a cheap Zionist ploy like Mark Steyn. His conversion was made a big show because he wrote a book praising Zionazi state of Israel.

“Most Muslim scholars don’t expect a goodwill coming from Vatican, which is a Zionist Occupied entity. You don’t have to take my word. Just read the opinion of a Catholic female columnist and blogger, Joanna Francis:

http://joannafrancis.wordpress.com/2006/09/18/benedict-xvi-zionist-double-agent/

Apr 15, 2008 - 7:17 pm Mr X:

Africa Population:
922,011,000 (2005)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa#cite_note-0

Apr 22, 2008 - 1:26 am Allen:

Beleiver,
I was traveling. Sorry not too write sooner.
You, like I was, are on the very begining of your journey. Someone has you derailed because you keep looking in to your heart instead of to the author and finisher of you faith. If you think you can love God and your neibor for even a second you are deceived. If you CAN love God and your neibor why did Christ have to die.If you are pretty good most of the time and just need a little help now and then what was the cross for. Like most christians you probably assume the gospel was just for getting saved and then it’s up to you to show God how much you love him. If you took a good look at your heart you would have to admit there is nothing there to offer to a Holy God. The only good you have or ever will have is from Christ’s work on the cross.
The point is the only response we can have to the gospel is gratitude. To think that a Holy God would stoop down to us, and suffer and die to save us is overwelming. When we look to our heart, which by the way is full of sin and cholesterol, we are slapping God in the face and rejecting him.
Look to Christ. When you do you will see yourself in a whole new light. When you see the work that christ did on the cross for you then you will fall on your knees and understand how great of a thing he has done. Then you will be able to look to your neibor and help him. But if you keep looking in (like all other mystic religions) how can you look to your neibor.
If you like check out this link.

http://www.modernreformation.org/default.php?page=articledisplay&var1=ArtRead&var2=928&var3=main

God bless, I look forward to the day when this type of discourse is not necesarry.
Allen

Apr 23, 2008 - 3:52 am Francois:

Christianity and Islam…two sides of the same coin…both are fear based religions…

there is only one religion in this whole world..which is not fear-based….Seek it (in other words….google it..) and you will really see your eyes opening to a whole new beautiful universe..

Apr 30, 2008 - 5:35 am Johnathan Myers:

I know many muslims here in America most are pretty good people depends on what country they are from. I also know many that have converted over to Christianity or other religions its cool what ever people wanna do. I think people are good hearted mainly thats why they are converting who wants to belong to a religion or (cult) that allows you to kill, marry more then one, have a fleshy heaven filled with 72 to girls and 18 boys a day allowed to do nasty things. i would convert myself. well God Bless Everyone of every religion.

May 2, 2008 - 3:59 pm bbb:

Obama is a radical black extremist who, if elected, will make white people “pay” for what we did to their ancestors. Just look at his preacher and the church. All black radicals, so what makes you think that he’s any different. He’s just putting on a front to get votes. People who vote for him are blind itiots. Plus he’s Islamic. Can you image the USA having a president name “President Obama”? Goood lord. Go McCain.

May 9, 2008 - 11:52 am