Pajamas Media

88 Comments

1. Dopetron:

I want unity for a secular nation. I don’t give a rat’s a** who is president i just want every inkling of Christianity out of our government. MEH!

Nov 18, 2008 - 2:12 am 2. SeanLA:

This seems like the same logic that kept McCain from pointing out the good reverend and all Obamas friends in the neighborhood, read Victor Hansons recent article where he mentions this.
This is also the reason why lone conservatives don’t get elected.
Some of this reminds me of the mother from `THE GARDEN OF THE FINZI-CONTINIS’ where she plays nice nice while the world changes around her and fascism closes in. Lead by Soros and his minions, chanting in their megaphones

Characture and mockery is what you’re missing an understanding of. Media DOES matter, its not just the name of one of Soro’s groups, the spectacle warrants attention. Just as bush is a good hitler, let Obama be stalin! If a mask fits, let `em wear it!

Nov 18, 2008 - 2:42 am 3. Mary Grabar:

Brilliant! I think SeanLA misses the point: what McCain failed to do was to consistently and repeatedly (and in a rational manner) hammer home the FACTS. We have so much on Obama, through his own words in print and on tape. Yet, during one of the debates, McCain just mentioned ACORN once, and it came across as a petulant guilt-by-association charge. Poor performance. We need new people.

Nov 18, 2008 - 4:28 am 4. hp:

Wake up from your dream and get a job at Hallmark.

one man’s dream is another man’s nightmare.

Nov 18, 2008 - 5:33 am 5. Kyle-Anne Shiver:

Dear Dopetron:

Are you so pitifully ignorant of your own Country’s history and founding principles that you do not understand even the source of every freedom you and your fellow Americans enjoy every day? You say you simply want “unity for a secular nation” and that you want “every inkling of Christianity out of our government.”

By whom do you believe this Nation was founded? By what sorts of men do you believe the ideas of liberty and justice were even conceived?

Samuel Adams, “The Rights of the Colonists,” circulated in 1772:

“The right to freedom being the gift of the Almighty…The rights of the colonists as Christians…may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institution of The Great Law Giver and Head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written and promulagated in the New Testament.”

Thomas Paine, American Revolutionary writer:

“The cause of America is in a great measure the cause of all mankind. Where, say some, is the king of America? I’ll tell you, friend, He reigns above.”

“The Almighty implanted in us these inextinguishable feelings for good and wise purposes. They are the guardians of His image in our heart. They distinguish us from the herd of common animals.”

Now Sir, Christians do not in any way begrudge your secular creed. Each individual is, under our Constitution, granted freedom of religion, but in your attempt to silence Christians or rid our government and media of them and their influence, you are fomenting revolution against the principles upon which our very Constitution was written and currently still rests.

And this, we simply cannot tolerate. For to rid our government of Christians is to form a different government, and for that you will need a real War.

So, enjoy your own freedom and allow every man and woman the same. That is the meaning of our Constitution. If you doubt this, then you need to study history more and watch your TV less.

Warm regards,
Kyle-Anne

Nov 18, 2008 - 5:39 am 6. Rashputin:

Dopetron, you’re funny as hell. You’ve managed to expose both the extent of your brain washing and the depth of your ignorance with wonderful brevity!

All you numbskulls worrying about “Christians in da gubbermint woodpile” need to change your meds or something. In spite of what a great many espouse as a desire for Christian values or a Christian basis for action, very, very, few of them ever follow thru on those comments in any Christian way and fewer still let their Christian values stand in the way of their getting ahead. That’s why you’re so far off base on “Christianity in the gubbermint”. This government has been pagan for at least twenty years and mostly pagan for over forty years. When you can show me a social services department in any town in this country where they have nothing to do because the local “christian community” is taking care of the poor, the sick, the widows, the orphans, the un-wed mothers, and all the others that true Christian Charity would strive to aid, then you can blather about “Christianity n da gubbermint” without my laughing at you. The so-called Christians in this country have done exactly what they preach against time and time again until they have nothing left but their christian social groups where they share comments on the latest christian movie or christian novel without ever letting any of that interfere with their lifestyle.

Go to any christian bookstore you like and the odds are ten to one against them having anything like a brochure that lists the Christian charities and Christian persons who are available to help someone with a personal crisis. No, the huge majority have twenty flavors of the Bible (none of which are free like a Gideon bible is in a hotel) and tons of upscale nick nacks so that those who decry the Catholic Church for having idols. Nick nacks just sit around the house or hang on their wall to remind them and everyone else of their faith, unlike idols which sit around the house to remind folks of their faith. I guess they need that type of thing since they live so much like the run of the mill pagan, atheist, or follower of “the divine tomato paste can”.

There isn’t any Christianity left in our government and your acting all pissed over there being any just shows that you’ve either been stoned for the past thirty years or have been brainwashed by someone who was stoned for all that time. Protestents and Catholics in this country worry more about the paving in their parking lots than they do about the government yet fools like you run around brethless and paranoid. Go figure.

As for their being Christianity within the Republican party to any great extent, well, I must have missed the multiple calls for conservatives to pray that the Lord’s will be done in the past election. I also didn’t see much in the way of Christian charity being proposed as an alternative to big government, so, wherever the “Christian” values within the Republican party happen to be, they’re awfully well hidden.

Have a nice day

Nov 18, 2008 - 5:44 am 7. Craig:

“I have too much pride in my own country to criticize our president to a bunch of folks who owe their own freedom — both past and present — to my country. And when Europeans decide to foot the bill for their own defenses, then maybe I’ll pay a tad of attention to their whiny complaints about our president.”

We must’ve done a mind-meld.

Nov 18, 2008 - 5:54 am 8. Dr. Lumplevin:

Dear Ms. Kyle-Ann Shiver,

You must come to understand that if we Leftists appeared to be breaking every norm of decent civilized behavior, of respect for our institutions and Constitution, if we appeared even to be downright treasonous and abetting and aiding our enemies, it was all for good motives -in order to save the country and install a leader who can truly save the world.

We also trust that in the coming months your resolve to maintain respect will grow into asomething even more. One day you will gaze up at his enormous face and comprehend what kind of smile is hidden beneath the dark demeanor. O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast! You will understand and weep. It will be all right, everything will be all right, the struggle will be finished. You will win the victory over yourself. You will love Obama.

Nov 18, 2008 - 6:27 am 9. Ms. Attitude:

6. Rashputin: I hate to say it but I agree with you! In the town I live in I think the churches are in competition as to who can have the biggest building! At the same time we have one small section of our town that looks like a “little hell”.

I believe in God and I believe that Christ died for my sins and raised from the dead. But that is my personal business. I won’t force my beliefs on someone else as long as you don’t force yours on me.

I don’t want christianity in the government. I don’t want any religion in the government. I know our founding fathers had christian principles but c’mon, the christian church today is not the same as it was in their day.

Nov 18, 2008 - 6:29 am 10. G-Ma:

Dopetron #1, you show your ignorance. Thanks, Kyle-Anne!!
As an American, I will fight for your freedom to believe as you choose, I
will also fight you if you attempt to take away my right to be a Christian
and how I believe the government be run.

Rasputin # 6, you are right in many ways. We Christians do not market our
selves very well. I asure you, Christians do offer help to others in manys
ways.

Nov 18, 2008 - 6:30 am 11. R a Z o R:

How is it that an atheist can live freely within

our Christian based government ?

Would this same freedom be extended to a person

of faith in a government based on secularism ?

IMO the swing of the opinion as reached it’s

limit and now is heading back to the center and

common sense .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO_VIlmmJM8

Nov 18, 2008 - 6:39 am 12. Kyle-Anne Shiver:

Dear Rashputin:

Your ignorance of Christian charity in this country and around the world at this very moment is truly appalling.

Right this minute, you should go to Amazon and order this book:
WHO REALLY CARES, by Arthur C. Brooks

Brooks is a Harvard social science researcher who set out to prove that liberals were truly compassionate, voluntary givers of the sort they vocally purport to be. Yet he found the opposite. It is those Christian and Jewish conservatives you impugn here that do the giving. And the truth is that American charity is a far greater commodity — dollar wise — than all the government money spent on solving any social problem.

This extends not only to our own Country, but to those in need around the world. America outstrips every other country and ALL of Europe in our PURELY VOLUNTARY giving.

Once again, you demonstrate pure ignorance, which is obviously garnered from your source of disinformation — a politically motivated media complex.

Sad. Truly sad. To allow oneself to be brainwashed to this extent demonstrates the worst of humanity; it is worthy of a lower-ordered animal.

Regards,
Kyle-Anne

Nov 18, 2008 - 6:43 am 13. Nuke08:

I think Dopetron’s name says it all. Cheers.

Nov 18, 2008 - 6:44 am 14. anton:

I have been saying this for the last four years, Conservatives need to rediscover their core principles, clearly define them, and then work hard to promote them. We need to oppose and expose all the policies that conflict with our principles, but we need to do it in a rational manner, not all bug-eyed and red-faced slobbering like Code Pink, the Greenies or the Truthers. Their behavior is appalling and I would rather lose than play that game.

Nov 18, 2008 - 6:47 am 15. Susan Says:

I for one, will show President Obama as much respect and courtesy as President Bush was shown for the last 8 years. No more, no less.

Nov 18, 2008 - 6:49 am 16. Mike:

I will support and respect Obama exactly the way the DailyKos and MoveOn supported Bush and if undercutting Bush’s presidency worked for the left it ought to work well for the right to undercut Obama’s presidency.

By the way, I hope all you rich liberals out there are going to pay a bunch of taxes because Joe Biden said it’s your patriotic duty to do so and I am waiting for my share of the free stuff Obama promised me.

Nov 18, 2008 - 6:51 am 17. Linden Swift:

As usual, your writing is great. Your response to Dopetron was even better.

Nov 18, 2008 - 6:55 am 18. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: Bring On…

….i just want every inkling of Christianity out of our government. MEH! — dopetron

…the human sacrifices!

Let’s use the Christians first.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Those who will not recognize the connection between politics and morality will never understand one nor the other.]

Nov 18, 2008 - 7:17 am 19. Rashputin:

Dear Kayle-Anne Shiver

Donations smonations. I realize you probably think it’s fine to put a value on the used undies you donate to the Goodwill since that’s “just common sense”, but what you don’t realize is that your instant resort to economics as example of your faith in and of itself proves my point far better than anything else I could say.

Have a nice day

Nov 18, 2008 - 7:23 am 20. Steve P.:

“As for me, in the interest of national unity, I hereby resolve that I will not travel to Washington, D.C., dress up in tacky pink lingerie, and storm the halls of Congress, yelling “War criminal!” at the top of my lungs at President Obama. Even if I find every single one of his policy decisions absolutely reprehensible, I will refrain from this particular type of disunity.”

Lady, if Obama starts a war based on a lie that results in the deaths of thousands of American soldiers as well as hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians, which is exactly what Bush did, then I, a Liberal, will be the first to dress up in tacky pink lingere to march on DC and call Obama a war criminal. Because dissent, even angry dissent, even dissent against one’s own party, and even in lingere, is still patriotic.

I applaud your willingness to give Obama an opportunity to prove himself a good president. That’s far more than I can say for most of the folks posting on this site. But it’s totally ridiculous to claim that you’re going to sit back and twiddle your thumbs if he screws up. Elected officials ought to be held accountable for their decisions.

The travesty here is NOT that a few whackos dressed up in tights and called Bush a war criminal. The REAL travesty is that hundreds of thousands of folks like you questioned nothing, said nothing, and did nothing about the terrible atrocity that the president you voted for inflicted upon an innocent populace for no clear reason.

Worry less about how a fringe group of radical liberals judged president Bush. Worry more about how history will judge you.

Nov 18, 2008 - 7:25 am 21. Susan Says:

Note to Dr. Lumplevin….Your post is in itself the stuff of Stephen King novels. Lots of gnashing of teeth and rubbing together of sweaty hands. I do give you points for summarily giving up the ghost per se on what drives the average Obama supporter. Truly a window into the madness. Hopefully you were using some literary scheme to use a reverse position therein showing it’s absurdity? I’m going with that for now. Comforting somehow.

Nov 18, 2008 - 7:36 am 22. Войска ПВО:

Kyle-Anne Shiver writes:

“Wake up from your dream and get a job at Hallmark.”

Kyle-Anne, another very good piece. (The gratuitous fragment above was a hoot!) I enjoy your work thoroughly and think it great that you revisit the thread to comment.

..your “other” ain’t no slouch either. Please count me in as a frequent visitor.

Nov 18, 2008 - 7:42 am 23. R a Z o R:

Al Franken and SNL making comments about Obama

doing his daughters makes me ill .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRXQ2ZueP5c
________________________________________________

If we are going to make our nation strong again

sometimes we need to rub their noses in it .

Nov 18, 2008 - 7:49 am 24. The Wizard:

With Nobama in office, there will be no political harmony, only hate and the dissention that this hubris RACIST has created over the last two years. He has no leadership abilities, experience, ethics or morality. Obama only wanted to win and said and did anything to accomplish his goal. We now see there is NO CHANGE, just more government, a revival of the Clinton administration gone LEFT, more loss of jobs, a stock market speaking loud and clear about his abilities to deal with crises and our country. This man is no patriot, has never supported the US and is a liar. God help us all.

Nov 18, 2008 - 7:58 am 25. The Historian:

SUICIDAL BIG BIASED MEDIA
Network television and print news outlets have put doctrine above profitability. They are in free fall as a result:

http://greensrealworld.blogspot.com/2008/11/big-biased-media.html

Nov 18, 2008 - 7:59 am 26. Rashputin:

<>

All true, but damn, doesn’t he work with a teleprompter well? You don’t see that every day, no siree.

Regards

Nov 18, 2008 - 8:02 am 27. Steve P.:

The Wizard: “We now see there is NO CHANGE, just more government, a revival of the Clinton administration gone LEFT, more loss of jobs, a stock market speaking loud and clear about his abilities to deal with crises and our country. This man is no patriot, has never supported the US and is a liar. God help us all.”

Dude, he hasn’t even assumed office yet and you’ve already got your swastika-print panties in a bunch. Why don’t you just simmer down, ask the orderlies to loosen the straight-jacket a bit, and relax?

Nov 18, 2008 - 8:06 am 28. Cantormania:

Christianity is about the forgiveness of sins. All this talk about how much Christians give to charity is therefore a false premise upon which to judge “the church”.

Of course there is much rot in contemporary American Christianity. The comments above about the Christian bookstores and “lifestyle Chrsitianity” were spot on. But that is beside the point. The Scriptures are about the forgiveness of sins, life, and salvation in Christ - not about money management, relationships, or “successful living”. Sure, there are are fruits of faith and so one can document good works flowing from Chrsitians, as Kyle-Anne does, but it is not that works make a man good, but rather that a man who has been made good (justified) in Christ does good works - by the faith the Spirit creates within. If one fails to view the Church this way, then one will not understand it.

I do understand, though, how many outside the church will miss this point. Indeed, most American Christians don’t understand it either! Churches all over the place have given up on the blood atonement (Jesus’ sacrifice for our sins) because they elevate human reason over Scripture and so reinterpret Scripture rather than accept what the Word says. Liberal churches therefore focus on social work (a.k.a. good works) and ‘evangelical’ churches focus on entertainment and member services (such as worship bands, parenting seminars, small groups to help people make friends, etc. - a.k.a. good works). So, yes, I can see why there is confusion.

At the end of the day, though, everyone is forgetting something: whether they be traditional Christians, liberal Christians, neo-evangelical Christians, the confiscatory tax rates make it very difficult for congregations to provide alternatives to the welfare state. So it really is unfair for anyone to expect them to try. Actually, Scripture says very little about helping the poor outside the Church anyway - though the faith of Christians has brought forth the fruits of an amazing amount of charitable work over the years, for which Christianity has merited great praise. Scripture does talk about caring for the congregations’ “widows and orphans” and also for caring for congregations in need (the “collection for Jerusalem” for example), but not about going out and doing social work. No, the Great Commission is about baptizing and teaching.

But even the social work Christians are called to do among their own is hampered by the high tax rates we pay today. My medium-sized congregation spends a great deal of money on various forms of human care - from keeping congregation members in their homes to funding an orphanage in Madagascar - but there simply is only so much $ to go around after we pay so much to our federal, state, and local governments. Sure, many of great faith among us tithe before taxes, but even in those cases giving is constrained by confiscatory tax policies because such people often give more than 10% of their income. Indeed some give much more.

But this thread is supposed to be about how much respect we should have for the office of the Presidency. And we got on this sidetrack becasue comment #1 evidently will respect any president so long as (s)he is not Christian. Odd. FWIW, I’ll agree with Luther: “I’d rather be governed by a wise Turk than a dumb Christian!”

And a wise Turk would value Chrstians and their Church.

Nov 18, 2008 - 8:07 am 29. Susan Says:

Reading all of the above posts should show us all why the GOP flopped this year so badly. We are so busy infighting on what Christianity is or does or should be or should do that we’re all not seeing the forest for the trees. In all of this infighting is lost the melting pot of America. We are not all Christians or Diests or Muslims or Mormons. We should all start out as AMERICANS during an election cycle. The GOP did not come across as for everyone and Obama did. When we start our exclusionary discussion of Christianity being what this country was founded on, blah, blah, blah, millions of ears immediately shut. Self-righteous or not, one set of value systems cannot claim an entire party anymore.

Nov 18, 2008 - 8:18 am 30. james wilson:

Perhaps you would be well served by first pulling John McCain back from his servile embrace into the arms of Obama, or yourself from the stain of McCain. The twisted little man is by no means done with denegrating most of what you stand for.
You made a mistake in supporting McCain, and he will not fail to remind you as his vanity seeks a new home.
No one has made his last mistake, so we are at least better served when we do not carry our last one with us.
Obama rose because we were weak and foolish, and for no other reason. We will touble ourselves to understand Jimmy Madison, or we will serve as a foil for liberals.

Nov 18, 2008 - 8:24 am 31. Barbara:

If one must read a book, and I believe most of our populace are too lazy then I would recomend Saul Alinsky’s book Rules For Radicals. Anyone not understanding how and why the great Obamessiah won and how we will be the Peoples Republic of Obamunisiam they would be enlightened. While your at it, sheople read Orwells Animal Farm as well. Yes, sheople, give up your rights but look for the handouts. No one seems to want to address the lack of ideals with which the Republican party has manifested and selling us a bill of goods of Socialism thinly veiled as doing “good”.
Now the Catholic church has silenced a Sounth Carolina priest who is against Abortion.

Nov 18, 2008 - 8:30 am 32. Jaz:

Anyone can play the “chucking around old texts” games to prove any point you like. What about this one?

“As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;” 1797 Treaty with Tripoli.

Not quite sure that a bunch of 200 year old letters is really all that relevant.

As for your comment about charitable donations - you are comparing apples and oranges. Firstly a substantial proportion of US donations is to religious-based organizations - far more so than in Europe (approx 1/3rd of the $300bn donated by US citizens was to churches). Secondly charitable donation in teh US includes activities and services that are provided for by the state in Europe.

Nov 18, 2008 - 8:51 am 33. Rashputin:

Cantormania : A wise Turk would value the Christians and their Church to the extent that he felt their Church influenced their opinions and behavior.

Susan Says : “We are so busy infighting on what Christianity is or does or should be or should do that we’re all not seeing the forest for the trees.”

Sorry, but no one was arguing about that a bit during the past election, they were all arguing whether or not McCain was actually a Republican. If so, when would he act like one (probably when he was dead, which is why Palin motivated so many) and if not, why vote for a psudo-democrat rather than a real democrat. That was my point to the dunce who decried the influence of christians on the government, there is no such influence and there hasn’t been for a long, long, time. Argue about what values the Republicans should stand for not who should be blamed like the self-rightous who claim to be Americans first yet generally put America last.

james wilson : “Obama rose because we were weak and foolish, and for no other reason. ”

Yeah, but republicans are so good at being weak and foolish that’s a tough habit to break. Republicans can’t seem to resist the desire to be called, “nice guys” by the very people who want to destroy them. That’s why they end up knocked down again every time they manage to get up off of the mat. They quit focusing on the fight they’re in and start mugging for the crowd outside the ring.

Nov 18, 2008 - 9:00 am 34. Steve P.:

Rashputin:”Yeah, but republicans are so good at being weak and foolish that’s a tough habit to break. Republicans can’t seem to resist the desire to be called, “nice guys” by the very people who want to destroy them. ”

Ha ha. Yeah. Because when I think about the party of Joseph McCarthy, Richard Nixon, George W. Bush and Dick Cheney, “nice guys” is the term that comes to mind….

Nov 18, 2008 - 9:25 am 35. Kyle-Anne Shiver:

Dear Dr. Lumplevin:

I love you from afar! Your witty parody is the kind of thing that give me a boost every time and everywhere I see it! Thank you!

Dear Steve P.:

How many soldiers home from Iraq have you spoken to regarding this so-called “senseless” war?

Pop quiz question: How many reasons were in the
Joint Congressional Resolution of 2002, which authorized the War in Iraq?

If you answer, “one,” the reason of supposed “weapons of mass destruction” in the hands of Sadam Hussein, you FAIL. You are a product of brainwashing by the mass media industrial complex controlled by leftist ideologues. The Joint Resolution is available online and lists 23 separate reasons, was overwhelmingly approved by your House and Senate representative lawmakers, and when this Country is unwilling to fight for peace among the bullies of this world, then we will once again wear the shackles of slavery. Is this what you truly want?

Stock tip from Kyle-Anne: Purchase all the Johnson & Johnson stock you can afford. They are the makers of the nausea-fighting potion, Pepto Bismol. With the One in office, and his media puppets singing his praises, there is going to be a rush on Pepto for the duration of his presidency. The money you make off this stock may help to defray your increased tax burden.

By the way, Christian conservatives are not the people in this country obsessed with money. Again, check out Brooks’ book, WHO REALLY CARES. You will find that according to social science research, it is liberals who are obsessed with money and are the tightest skinflints ever known to American shores. They lie, they cheat on their taxes and they feel no guilt about it.

When those charities come knocking this year, here is my answer: We now give through our government. Send your needs to Obama. He has promised to meet them all.

Best,
Kyle-Anne

Nov 18, 2008 - 9:26 am 36. Rashputin:

“When those charities come knocking this year, here is my answer: We now give through our government. Send your needs to Obama. He has promised to meet them all.”

Thank you for confirming my point. No one ends up denying there’s a need for various types of social help in communities so they end up letting the government take a specific role in aiding others; then and what do you know, the government expands that role and increases taxes to support it. As I said, thanks for reinforcing my point that the Christian Conservatives (obsessed with money or not) have long yeilded any say in social issues in this country by letting the government handle them. Now, all they Christians can do is sit and point to social scientists opinions and take the blame for being so absurd as to have any moral values.

Years ago people could see what a difference Christians made in their communities, not just what a difference they made in book and designer gift sales in specific categories.

Have a nice day

Nov 18, 2008 - 9:46 am 37. Pat J:

“Former Presidents Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter, as well as former Vice President Al Gore, have all spent much of the past eight years conducting what many deem a shadow foreign policy for the United States of America. Each has taken huge speaking fees for the purpose of countering — some would call it “bashing” — our one president’s foreign policy decisions.

Perhaps Democrats will see this as a petty little peeve, but this is actually quite in defiance of the U.S. Constitution, which explicitly forbids those outside the current, lawfully elected executive branch of our federal government from doing this sort of thing. This de facto diplomacy has perhaps had a very deleterious effect on the actual efficacy of President Bush’s own lawful foreign policy.”
~~~~~~~~~~~
Article 2, Section 2 “He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.”
———————–
I don’t see how these former officials are in defiance of the U.S. Constitution for stating an opinion on a seating president’s foreign policy.

Nov 18, 2008 - 9:48 am 38. fear Obama:

3. Mary Grabar:
what McCain failed to do was to consistently and repeatedly (and in a rational manner) hammer home the FACTS. We have so much on Obama

There IS TOO MUCH on Obama.

Never though I would say that,
it caused McCain to lose.

From his frowning un-happy wife and friends- “Not being proud of her country,” Obama spending more time with his Tele-Prompter and Blackberry than them. ‘Joe the Plumber, spreading the wealth.’

his terrorists buddies Bill and his wife,
his G-D.. D-M preacher mentor.

Friends of mine began to think it was all a McCain campaign fabrication,
that was the downfall.

So much STUFF even I was confused by the magnitude of it.

Nov 18, 2008 - 9:49 am 39. Steve P.:

Kyle-Anne Shiver: “How many soldiers home from Iraq have you spoken to regarding this so-called “senseless” war?”

The person I would have most cared to speak to died in that senseless war. He was a patriot and a good man and I miss him dearly. And he died for a lie.

Kyle-Anne Shiver: “You are a product of brainwashing by the mass media industrial complex controlled by leftist ideologues. The Joint Resolution is available online and lists 23 separate reasons, was overwhelmingly approved by your House and Senate representative lawmakers…”

‘Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction.’ –Dick Cheney, August 26, 2002

‘We know where [the WMDs] are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.’ –Donald Rumsfeld, March 30, 2003

Oct. 7, 2002, that Iraq posed an imminent threat was beaten into the nation’s psyche: “Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof.” Yet the president possessed directly opposing information from the top-secret National Intelligence Estimate, released days earlier. Prepared by the CIA with input from 16 U.S. intelligence agencies: “Baghdad for now appears to be drawing a line short of conducting terrorist attacks with conventional CBW [chemical and biological weapons] against the United States.”

The declassified summary of the NIE — released by the administration for public and media review shortly after the full report — was another lie in that it was grotesquely altered. The above point was not included. Also missing were several forceful statements from other intelligence agencies disputing the CIA’s horribly overblown and inaccurate assessments. Finally, in at least half a dozen instances, conclusions were altered to make Iraq’s threat more compelling. Language was added or omitted that changed CIA opinions to incontrovertible facts.

Another example is the now infamous nuclear reference from Bush’s 2003 State of the Union address: “Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” Not only was this refuted twice in early 2002 — by former Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV and by French intelligence — but the CIA’s National Intelligence Council investigated and told the White House four days before the address that “the Niger [Africa] story is baseless and should be laid to rest.” So the administration knew the claim was false, used it anyway and when caught, issued a collective “oops.” Although these speeches are vetted by Bush staffers, State, Defense, National Security and the CIA, it just slipped through.

I, my Senate and House Representatives, and the rest of the American people put their faith and trust in the president and his administration, and we were repaid with complete betrayal. So, you can take your 23 resolutions and cram them.

Nov 18, 2008 - 10:06 am 40. Ken Hahn:

I’m not much of an original thinker, but I do learn pretty well. I have observed the following:

1. The Democrats have registered house pets, dead people, cartoon characters and illegal aliens in massive numbers through ACORN and other such groups.

2. The Democrats have used “discovered” votes to win the Washington Governorship and are trying the same tactic in the Minnesota Senate Race.

4. Democratic officials in Ohio have violated the rights of a citizen who merely asked a question.

4. The Democrats Propaganda Organization ( the lapdog media ) has carefully avoided any research on R. Hunter Biden, while spending hugh sums to investigate Bristol Palin.

5. The lapdogs have protected Obama and Biden ( and McCain until he won the nomination ) while printing every rumor and inventing a few on their own about Palin and McCain ( after he won the nomination ).

6. The Democrats have conducted a massive fund raising effort, making sure that illegal and foreign donations are impossible to trace.

7. The Democrats have spent every day of the last eight years having either a temper tantrum or a hissy fit.

As a result, they have won the last two elections. They lie, cheat and steal, and generally behave like spoiled children. And they win. I’m not too original, but I learn.

I pledge that for the next four years I will try to follow their example. Worked for them, works for me.

Nov 18, 2008 - 10:31 am 41. liberty4usa:

http://thenma.org/blogs//index.php/libertyforusa/2008/11/09/america-the-div-id-ed

When the other side awakes from their stupor I promise to allow them to reunite for Americas sake.

Until than, you will find me right here where I always am, fighting for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

You will not find me uniting with people that consider America an oppressor or believe we are the source of evil in this world.

Unfortunately, that is what the newly elected president-to-be feels, and his followers are still expressing hate and vitriol despite his election.

Follow the golden rule and do unto others as you would have them do unto you, but don’t think that means uniting with the utterly wrong who now have the power and the plans to control your lives!

Nov 18, 2008 - 10:46 am 42. Rashputin:

Ken Hahn - “I pledge that for the next four years I will try to follow their example. Worked for them, works for me.”

Now you’re talkin’, “Change we need”.

It comes down to whether the republicans really believe the democrats are going to harm the country or not. If so, it’s no holds barred. If not, then just shutup and be thankful for the few little crumbs that fall off the table.

Regards

Nov 18, 2008 - 10:49 am 43. Nancy:

Dear Kyle-Anne,

In response to some of the knuckleheads, remember,
“Rudeness never reveals Strength, only Weakness and Insecurity”.

Don’t waste your time with them, some will just refuse to accept reality that the media does not want to educate, only dumb down America. You have just seen the proof.

Fix the Media and you fix the Culture.
Fix the Culture and you fix the Family
Fix the Family and you fix the NATION.

Nov 18, 2008 - 10:51 am 44. Rashputin:

“Rudeness never reveals Strength, only Weakness and Insecurity”.

Yes, a remark like, “worthy of a lower-ordered animal” is the type of thing you generally expect from a weak and insecure individual.

Have a nice day

Nov 18, 2008 - 10:57 am 45. susan:

steve p

“The REAL travesty is that hundreds of thousands of folks like you questioned nothing, said nothing, and did nothing about the terrible atrocity that the president you voted for inflicted upon an innocent populace for no clear reason.”

typical leftist obamatrons, they think that automatically every person thinks as them.

I happen to think instead that intelligence is rare, therefore not many people are on my same positions.

By assuming that the total majority of the population was against the iraq war you assume that

1) you know what’s on people’s mind (all american above 18 at least)
2) they have had the right amount of objective information (which nowadays is basically IMPOSSIBLE)

The surroundings of bombing serbia are much more obscure and produced far more disasters than iraq (thanks bill clinton for creating an alquaeda hot spot in the heart of europe) but I suppose you clever democraps can bomb any country with no shame.

Were were you during those times? sucking your thumbs? why you didn’t protest the killing of serbian civilians? because daddy bubba is so nice?

Nov 18, 2008 - 11:33 am 46. myth buster:

Jaz, you make our point for us, that is, that Americans do voluntarily what Europe must coerce people to do. People benefit greatly from giving freely, but taxes deprive people of this benefit.

Nov 18, 2008 - 11:45 am 47. David R. Graham:

There are a couple of obsessive rejoinder-ist/mockers here. They will not stop and cannot converse.

A suggestion for the circs:

1- shorten front

2- preserve culture

3- cultivate peace

Nov 18, 2008 - 12:06 pm 48. Kyle-Anne Shiver:

Dear Myth Buster:

Thank you. That was my next point of disinformation abounding in our Country today.

ON CHARITY:

Charitable giving — understood to be that voluntarily given from ONE’S OWN MONEY — is practically NONEXISTENT in every European socialist nation. It is entirely NONEXISTENT in communist countries, and a concept that is COMPLETELY UNKNOWN in undeveloped nations and most of the Arab world.

Now, these are facts. They are inarguable. It is also inarguable that the more taxes are increased to provide for the relief of social problems, the less money is given to do the same voluntarily. It is also an indisputable fact — from decades of social science research — that government social programs DO NOT SOLVE SOCIAL PROBLEMS. In fact, there is a wealth of information that shows the opposite. Government intervention has the effect of WORSENING social problems.

For the idiocracy folks represented here, you need to get a hold of the financial statements of the Churches you so disparage here, and when you do, you will see that most of the money donated freely to churches actually goes into programs aimed at community outreach and improvements for social problems.

And guess what? Those faith-based programs actually have beneficial effects and the receivers actually go on to become future givers. Charitable giving actually improves the lives of both givers and takers; then takers become givers. It is a circle of real love that perpetuates and enriches all those who are touched.

Welfare, on the other hand, has the opposite effect. Welfare takers do not give; statistics bear this out again and again. And they do not, in the vast majority of cases, ever become free of the dole or able to care for themselves. Most, in effect, become lifelong takers, whose aims become a quest to take more and more, rather than to give back or actually improve the circumstances of one’s community.

In my opinion, there is no greater cruelty than to purposely — or even inadvertently — keep people from achieving self-reliant independence. It is just another form of slavery. And calling it something else does not remove its shackles.

FDR called state welfare a “narcotic.” He was absolutely correct.

The genuine lovers in this society are not those that clamor for more and more state welfare, whether for themselves or others. No, the genuine lovers are those who give of their own resources to enable and empower their fellow citizens to become independent givers themselves.

And I hate to burst your self-righteous bubble here, but those givers are the conservative Christians and Jews — NOT liberals.

Read a book. Discover the truth for yourselves. It might actually help you help someone else.

Best,
Kyle-Anne

Nov 18, 2008 - 12:28 pm 49. Rashputin:

Susan : “Were were you during those times? sucking your thumbs? why you didn’t protest the killing of serbian civilians? because daddy bubba is so nice?”

The only good explaination I can come up with for that is Soros was a nazi and had an old gripe against the Serbs, so bombing them was just fine. I doubt the liberal “leaders” actually have a position until they read the memo that comes along with each new check from Soros.

That’s a shame, too, because I’m sure that seeing “The One” ignore an unreasoning gang of thugs would set many a liberal leg tingling.

Nov 18, 2008 - 12:33 pm 50. Susan Says:

Ken Hahn….Your post was spot on! I’ve never believed that McCain or the GOP lost on issues. McCain’s thoughts on the issues wouldn’t have made news if he had tattooed them on his big, white forehead. We lost to a personality. I wouldn’t even give Obama the credit of calling him a candidate because he really had no platform, no ideas of his own, nothing of value to add. The unthinking masses of young voters loved “him” not his politics. Of course there are so many posters here wanting the GOP to get back to “it’s roots” etc. We’re going to change ourselves into obscurity I’m afraid just to appeal to those unthinking masses. I say hold stead and next time hopefully we can have a candidate who will have bit o’personality of his own along with that GOP platform.

Nov 18, 2008 - 12:38 pm 51. Steve P.:

susan says : “I happen to think instead that intelligence is rare, therefore not many people are on my same positions.”

I think you meant to write “Not many people share my positions.” So, yes, intelligence is rare.

“By assuming that the total majority of the population was against the iraq war you assume that
1) you know what’s on people’s mind (all american above 18 at least)
2) they have had the right amount of objective information (which nowadays is basically IMPOSSIBLE)”

You completely missed the boat. I do not assume that the majority of the population was against the war. I believe they should have been against it and will one day wish they had been. Yes, intelligence is rare.

“The surroundings of bombing serbia are much more obscure and produced far more disasters than iraq (thanks bill clinton for creating an alquaeda hot spot in the heart of europe) but I suppose you clever democraps can bomb any country with no shame.”

The Serbians were responsible for widespread killings, the siege of towns, mass rape, ethnic cleansing and torture in concentration camps and detention centers conducted by different Serb forces including JNA (VJ), especially in Prijedor, Zvornik, Banja Luka and Foča. According to a detailed 1995 report about the war made by the Central Intelligence Agency, 90% of the war crimes of the Bosnian War were committed by Serbs. Nothing “obscure” about that.

Do I regret that civilians of the Bosnian War were killed and displaced? Of course. However, estimates of the number of Iraqis killed through 2007 range from 150,000 to more than 1,000,000. The most recent research places the number of victims of the Bosnian War, including civilians and military, at around 100,000–110,000 killed. The number actually killed by US forced is a much, much smaller number. So comparing the bombing of Serbia with the 5-year occupation of Iraq is a completely false equivalency and only illustrates your ignorance on the issue.

So yes, indeed, intelligence is rare.

Nov 18, 2008 - 12:50 pm 52. Steve P.:

Kyle-Anne Shiver: “Charitable giving — understood to be that voluntarily given from ONE’S OWN MONEY — is practically NONEXISTENT in every European socialist nation. It is entirely NONEXISTENT in communist countries, and a concept that is COMPLETELY UNKNOWN in undeveloped nations and most of the Arab world.”

“Now, these are facts. They are inarguable. It is also inarguable that the more taxes are increased to provide for the relief of social problems, the less money is given to do the same voluntarily. It is also an indisputable fact — from decades of social science research — that government social programs DO NOT SOLVE SOCIAL PROBLEMS. In fact, there is a wealth of information that shows the opposite. Government intervention has the effect of WORSENING social problems.”

If these are facts, then let’s see you back them up with some stats. Otherwise, I’ll just assume that this is an “O’Reilly fact”, i.e., a baseless opinion that you make a ‘fact’ by putting it in ALL CAPS WITH AN EXCLAMATION POINT!

Nov 18, 2008 - 12:55 pm 53. Rashputin:

“For the idiocracy folks represented here, you need to get a hold of the financial statements of the Churches you so disparage here, and when you do, you will see that most of the money donated freely to churches actually goes into programs aimed at community outreach and improvements for social problems.”

Well then, since you are sure this is true, you must be able to show me which City, town, or even village has been able to shut down the local Social Services office for lack of need, the local need all being taken care of by the local donors.

It’s all well and good to repeat the meme of “huge charitable contributions” but you still end up with one of two conclusions. Either it’s mostly not targeted to those who have the greatest need, or the need is so great that only the government can handle such a huge failing of our economic system. I refuse to believe the latter, so no matter what type of statistical gymnastics you or your favorite social scientist perform I have to believe that it’s going as much for bamboo snacks for Panda bear luncheons as it is to helping the needy. Sort of like the, “parents night out” thing a local church holds once a week while the rest of the week the police frequently check the empty parking lot and empty building out because homeless bums used to sneak in and sleep in the basement overnight.

Have a nice day

Nov 18, 2008 - 1:01 pm 54. susan:

“You completely missed the boat. I do not assume that the majority of the population was against the war. I believe they should have been against it and will one day wish they had been. Yes, intelligence is rare.”

you completely missed your appointment to have a functioning brain.

If you do not assume the majority of population was against the war, why you claim without the shadow of a doubt that the war was universally a mistake.

typical leftist, full of ****

“According to a detailed 1995 report about the war made by the Central Intelligence Agency, 90% of the war crimes of the Bosnian War were committed by Serbs. Nothing “obscure” about that.”

LOL, you believe the CIA only when it suits. Typical leftist.

The bosnian crimes against christian serbs are well documented too, the only reality is that when your communist paradises collapse they usually left crap all over, and they always need a suprevisor to keep them in check and teach them again civilization from scratch.

NATO should have stayed out, a greater serbia is less a threat to civilization than the mujaideen in the heart of europe.

Your mental limited capacity doesn’t let you understand this.

And BTW, since when you fellate with zerobama you think that “now the world loves me again”, let me tell you that EVERYBODY even in bordering countries with Yugoslavia thought that this “war” was a pretext to take off attention from Klinton’s sex scandals.

So much for your CIA paper.

It is also well know that documents and photographic evidence has been doctored and manufactured for the public opinion.

That means, the idiots like yourself.

“owever, estimates of the number of Iraqis killed through 2007 range from 150,000 to more than 1,000,000. ”

I do not count the deaths related to their suicide bombings. Or their inter-tribal disputes.

Fact is that “helping” by wester standards those countries is like opening a can of ugly worms.

When your brain is infested with a disease called islam, there is nothing but barbarism.

I allow myself to burst your bubble about charity

http://templars.wordpress.com/2007/03/19/giving-to-charity-bring-back-the-victorians/

as kyle ann wrote, USA gives more to charity.

I hope you go back to sucking your thumb.

Nov 18, 2008 - 1:27 pm 55. Will Sharpe:

I can’t believe this passes as journalism! Who cares what you think about Obama in public; you’re surely seething in private if this is the sort of article you conceptualized.

Our mulitfaceted country will never achieve any semblance of unity comparable to the founding of our nation. Therefore, LET CRITICISM RING! I’m as moderate as hell and cannot stand when someone leaning to either political exteme panders to the middle or vise versa (see most every contemporary Presidental election). If you want to yell at the top of your lungs about why Obama’s Administration is a preordained failure THEN DO SO! Or you can veil your anger in other’s extreme reactions and use those to convey your willingness to abstain from mud slinging in support someone you cannot stand.

And, no, I want nothing to do with collective love, harmony, and peace because it would be untenable in this fractured country of ours–plus, it would make for boring existence.

Nov 18, 2008 - 1:29 pm 56. Rashputin:

Steve P : “So comparing the bombing of Serbia with the 5-year occupation of Iraq is a completely false equivalency and only illustrates your ignorance on the issue.”

Pick any number of civilian deaths you’d like to make up for Iraq, but you’ll be hard pressed to argue that it’s not far fewer than Sadaam would have killed during the same time frame. He was killing people so fast that he was on track to eliminate everyone other than the Sunni minority by now. I’m sure that’s not a factor in your opinion but it’s never the less a fact. In addition, anyone killed by the foreign Jihadist ends up being numbered among those deaths that the US is “responsible” for even though the US in no way contributed to their deaths.

As for the Serbs being the guiltiest of the guilty in Balkans, no way. Maybe, “the most guilty during the time frame carefully chosen for study by those wishing to make the Serbs look awful”, but by no stretch of the imagination were they the most murderous folk in the Balkans.

Nov 18, 2008 - 1:31 pm 57. malclave:

“I, my Senate and House Representatives, and the rest of the American people put their faith and trust in the president and his administration, and we were repaid with complete betrayal.”

Only if you choose to believe sound bites, like the ones you posted, rather than looking at the statements in context.

Nov 18, 2008 - 1:49 pm 58. Dave:

I think Dopetron’s post must have been a plant to get a response. Nobody can be that stupid.

Nov 18, 2008 - 2:03 pm 59. Will Sharpe:

Oh WAIT! We never even had unity at our nation’s founding, just some fortuitous leadership and British-backbreaking French support. Yes, if it weren’t for the French we may never have come to fruition–although their support was far from altruistic.

What I’m trying to say is unity is overrated, so KEEP DISSENT ALIVE!

I’d also like to point out my agreement with Nancy’s assessment of our confounded, divided populace:

“Fix the Media and you fix the Culture.
Fix the Culture and you fix the Family
Fix the Family and you fix the NATION.”

I’d make the assessment even simplier:

Fix the Family–it’s as simple as that.

Nov 18, 2008 - 2:06 pm 60. Steve P.:

susan says: “you completely missed your appointment to have a functioning brain.”

Nice comeback. Too bad we’re not at an elementary school playground, where that might have been funny.

susan says: “Fact is that “helping” by wester standards those countries is like opening a can of ugly worms. When your brain is infested with a disease called islam, there is nothing but barbarism.”

Nice! Thanks for doing us both a favor and outing yourself as just another rabid right-wing xenophobic nutcase! It always comes down to hatred with you guys, doesn’t it? As if Islam has a monopoly on religious violence and intolerance. How is anyone supposed to take you seriously when you spout such ignorant nonsense?

Nov 18, 2008 - 2:16 pm 61. Rashputin:

Susan :

I doubt anyone would argue that the Americans are by far the most charitable people on earth, but that doesn’t solve the problems with poor and needy folks in this country. The current welfare system is actually a jobs program for the party faithful in the democrat party, and the current Food Stamp program is just an alternate currency for drug dealers and such who keep up with the Food Stamp exchange rate as if it were a foreign currency. The current usage of all those charitable dollars isn’t much better than the corrupt welfare system either, truth be told. Otherwise it would make obvious inroads in the welfare system. Charity was once a nearly complete answer and until it fell short, people would actually debate whether welfare was good or bad. Now, it’s always just a question of how much to increase and who wants to look like a cheapskate when it comes to helping others? No one, look at the reactions here when anyone questions whether or not charity is having the impact it should or portraying the values people say they have.

The conservatives in this country have never proposed a workable system of helping the needy and until they do they’re not going to compete. The old adage, “a rising tide lifts all ships” is true, but it makes no accommodation to the FACT that a great many of the small boats out there leak and have no rudder. Blame the education system, blame the horrible job of parenting a lot of boomers did, blame whatever you like, but the conservative folks in this country have never laid out a plan the public could understand and embrace to achieve the same or superior results in helping the needy, in education, or in building a society that adheres to the superior values the conservative folks hold to. Until they do, they’re not going to become and remain a majority.

Conservatives should get realistic, make realistic proposals, and do just like the Contract with America did. Lay out goals and clear cut ways to tell when they’re reached. All the statistical social science “proof” of anything just glazes the eyes of the average voter in this country and only something simple enough for them to grasp gains any traction at all. Obama didn’t even bother with a clear and simple proposal here and there, he just relied on McCain’s’ ability to make use of a pay toilet sound complex and worthy of great study.

Conservatives need to oppose every step Obama takes, but they need to have an obviously better solution at each step and they need to get the word about it out even though they’ll have to pay to get it out rather than relying on the “news” media. In fact, they should just ignore the news media and build their own alternative ways to spread the word and to reach individuals. I really think a great many of those who support Obama and who have supported the democrats in elections past are not beyond the reach of the republican party if that party is one that proposes solutions and actually realizes people want some problems handled no matter what the “pure” conservative ethic says about the propriety of those problems being handled by the government. Until there are superior solutions enacted, those now not within the republican orbit don’t even want to hear about what could be eliminated. They’ve seen these programs for their entire lives and they can’t imagine them going away. Until someone comes along who does a better job of running those programs in a way that reduces the problem, no one will listen to alternatives that include elimination of programs. A republican who jostles for a good posistion in the earmark line isn’t much of an argument for going republican rather than democrat, neither is a republican who claims to have a way to save six cents per monthly welfare check. Sure, six cents here and six cents there adds up, but when even the local fry cook has a quarter of a million dollar house and a loan he can’t pay, who cares?

Nov 18, 2008 - 2:27 pm 62. Richard:

If you’re really interested in post-election unity, you could start by dropping the rhetoric about “The One” as you use in the subtitle of your post. Just reading that told me more than what was in the article.

Nov 18, 2008 - 2:31 pm 63. Paul_Unalaska:

Steve P, your comments, “He was a patriot and a good man and I miss him dearly. And he died for a lie.”

I’m sorry for your loss but ever so thankful for his service. IMO, your friend didn’t die for a lie. For me, that’s a Cindy Sheehan-type retort. It’s sad Ms. Sheehan doesn’t realize what her son had done.

I lost 2 friends on 9/11. I knew Jason, the United pilot out of Denver who’d crashed in Pennsylvania. As well as my friend Michael, a fellow Air Force Meteorologist on leave from the Middle East visiting his wife and kids who’d perished in NYC.

I too was in the military and have friends who are on their 2nd, 3rd and even 4th campaign in Iraq, Afghanistan respectively. I asked a buddy recently while at home for a stint, why go again? His response was if he’d stayed, he’d be doing training exercises for the very precise reason he is there now!

The military is a voluntary service. Furthermore individuals choose the job they want or qualify for. I don’t know how to put it more plainly. Except to thank one when you get a chance. Active duty, Vet, Reservist etc.,

If you can’t see or accept the plethora of accomplishments our military and government has made in 5 years, there’s no other way to get it across to you. Study history and we too had a Revolution some 80 years after becoming a Union.

I recommend researching and/or reading of Saddam Hussein and his two sons. Yussef was a sadist (read about the reatment of the Iraqi football team or the women he’d ‘met’ in college, etc.,) and the preferred choice to lead Iraq after Saddam relinquished his power. Inevitably, there was no other way that man was to relieve power. For I truly believe Yussef would’ve been a more difficult adversary.

Regarding your WMD hangup, you want proof. Understandable. I must ask, do you honestly believe Saddam Hussein didn’t have or was in the process of obtaining materials for such action? His reluctance/defiance with inspectors, past actions. His use of mustard, nerve and other chemical weapons on his own people and the Iranian’s during the Imposed War. How he’d become President. The actions taken on those opposed or defied him.

I’d like to know where you found the ‘hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths’ pertaining to Iraqi civilians. Please. For that number is similiar to the casualty numbers of both Iraqi and Iraninans at the halfway point of their Imposed War (8 years).

Your mentioning Richard Nixon, sure he had his cons. Absolutely. Though he’s also considered one of the most successful Presidents of the 20th Century concerning international relations. Not to mention an incredible writer of the subject in his latter years. Share with me what Democratic Presidents in the past 30 years have improved our relations with Communist countries?

Look at the Carter administration and you’ll see how badly he handled ‘international diplomacy.’ The problems in Iran can be linked to his ridiculous intervention in the late 70’s.

I don’t claim to know what’s right. But I won’t play ‘the party of McCarthy, ..’ game. That’s childish and ignorant. Did you know MLK is a Republican? Apparently he’s bad as well under your guise…

If you’re so angry and disappointed in the political situation, write your local politician. Attend your City Council meetings. Form groups with individuals with similiar passions. Your trolling conservative blog sites and spewing blanketed statements is not affording you in finding your moment of zen.

BTW, you want to experience a horrible political system, visit nearly every country in Africa, most of SE Asia, W Europe. This way you’ll have a basis for your observations instead of sounding like an unhinged, uninformed person.

I recommend reading books in both a right and left minded agenda to get am more informed and well rounded understanding. I listen to books on my Ipod and has proven most effective for me.

Nov 18, 2008 - 2:54 pm 64. Granny3:

Steven P
Kind of like what you’ve been doing to the other commentators?
“rabid right-wing xenophoic nutcase”
As if Islam has a monopoly on religious violence and intolerance?
ignorant nonsense?
I laughed when I read you comments on Serbia - you used the very same arguments you denigrated when speaking about Iraq!
Why did you drop by? I’m really curious.

Nov 18, 2008 - 3:01 pm 65. Goodbye, Freedom!:

I stumbled on your Blog, Kyle-Anne, by accident but will probably return. You make very lucid and informed comments and conclusions.

Mr. Obama’s election scares me half to death with his far Left leanings coupled with Ms. Pelosi in the Majority Seat. However, even when the philandering Clinton was President, I still held the Office in high esteem. Not always the man in the office, but always the Office. We shall see what we see about this man Obama soon enough.

As I read through more and more comments about where the GOP went and how it comes back, I’ll give you an insight just to stir the ‘discussionary’ pot: being from Oregon, where my vote didn’t count for squat because the Obama Landslide was a foregone conclusion, I voted, for the first time in a very long time, for the man and Party I think has it together, not to defeat the Democrats - I voted for The Constitution Party. Did I want Obama to win? Shoot, no. But since we have an Electoral system and not a popular vote system, my vote in Oregon counted only if I made a statement with it. Democrats? NO WAY. Republicans? Don’t speak my language any more. The Constitution Party? Yes. Absolutely. Protect MY borders, not some other country’s borders. Get the heck out of the U.N., take back our National Sovereignty and fight when we deem it right and necessary. I think it’s insane that there is even a debate about this, but make English the official language of the United States of America and slam the borders closed. And many other issues I deem important on which we agree. If the GOP doesn’t wake up, we will have not only 4 or 8 years of Democratic piety in the Oval Office but rather 12 or 16 and by then we may not have enough freedom left to even get to vote!

Ahhh, there is so much more to say, but as one of the self-employed, small business owners in this country, whose very existence is at stake with this new regime, I should get back to work while I still have my business. Government over-regulation and interference is a mere few months away.

Thank you, Kyle-Anne for your blogs. I enjoyed reading them.

Nov 18, 2008 - 3:02 pm 66. M. Simon:

Soros was a Nazi collaborator.

Steve Kroft: And you watched lots of people get shipped off to the death camps.

George Soros: Right. I was 14 years old. And I would say that that’s when my character was made…

Steve Kroft: …My understanding is that you went out with this protector of yours who swore that you were his adopted godson.

George Soros: Yes. Yes.

Steve Kroft: Went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.

George Soros: Yes. That?s right. Yes.

Steve Kroft: I mean, that?s?that sounds like an experience that would send lots of people to the psychiatric couch for many, many years. Was it difficult?

George Soros: Not-not at all. Not at all. Maybe as a child you don?t - you don?t see the connection. But it created no-no problem at all.

Steve Kroft: No feeling of guilt?

George Soros: No.

Steve Kroft: For example that, ‘I’m Jewish and here I am, watching these people go. I could just as easily be there. I should be there.’ None of that?

George Soros: Well, of course I could be on the other side or I could be the one from whom the thing is being taken away. But there was no sense that I shouldn’t be there, because that was-well, actually, in a funny way, it?s just like in markets- that if I weren’t there- of course, I wasn’t doing it, but somebody else would-would-would be taking it away anyhow. And it was the-whether I was there or not, I was only a spectator, the property was being taken away. So the-I had no role in taking away that property. So I had no sense of guilt.

http://conservativeculture.com/2006/10/1131/

No wonder he like calling Bush a Nazi. It deflects from his own past.

Nov 18, 2008 - 3:22 pm 67. M. Simon:

Rasputin,

Here is a workable solution for the poor of the country - reduce the minimum wage to zero so poor kids can get entry level jobs according to their competence.

Then reduce regulation and taxes so the economy grows faster.

Remember when the economy grew 6 or 8% in one year? Every one was begging for labor and wages went well beyond the minimum. Now that there is a down turn lowering the minimum wage will help get more people employed.

Of course that sounds heartless and will never happen.

Nov 18, 2008 - 3:47 pm 68. M. Simon:

Our mulitfaceted country will never achieve any semblance of unity comparable to the founding of our nation.

About 1/3 were patriots. 1/3 were indifferent. And 1/3 were Tories.

I’d say we do have unity comparable to our founding.

Nov 18, 2008 - 3:49 pm 69. M. Simon:

Well then, since you are sure this is true, you must be able to show me which City, town, or even village has been able to shut down the local Social Services office for lack of need, the local need all being taken care of by the local donors.

They will never get shut down. It is a jobs program. Dishing out money is incidental.

Nov 18, 2008 - 3:53 pm 70. Gozer the Carpathian:

[quote]Susan Says:

I for one, will show President Obama as much respect and courtesy as President Bush was shown for the last 8 years. No more, no less.

[/quote]

Hear hear!

Nov 18, 2008 - 5:07 pm 71. Jason Sieckmann:

Of course normal, intelligent people (probably not one and the same) think that Code Pink and the Dixie Chicks are useless, trite pawns of the left.

Does that mean that we are all collectivists now? Shall I lose my identity and support our troops blindly?

I’ll go a step further for you. I not only do NOT support my troops, I’m tired of paying for their salaries, vehicles, and scandals. I’m tired of paying taxes, to be in a war every five years, because the latest douche bag democrat or republican decides he wants to bomb something to cover up taking away habeas corpus or a blow job.

I live in a world of nuclear bombs; where someone like you calls Russia an enemy but knows that you can never fight them because of their nuclear weapons. You thumb your nose at the countries that can fight us; unless we buy their goods at rock-cheap prices and borrow their money (like China). The day you even beat a Russian soldier in a bar fight; I’ll eat the stool you hit him with from behind.

So we fight countries that can’t fight us back, that just happen to have huge amounts of natural resources, that just happen to get exported by companies that are connected in almost every possible way with the elected leader we have at the time.

Guess what? I don’t like Clinton OR Bush. And your rhetoric on the subject doesn’t give me a clearer view on either man. I will say this though:

If you really cared about the economy, politics, or state of America’s politics; you’d be here spouting off about Ayn Rand’s Objectivism and getting rid of government interference into the economy. You’d be talking about how democracy is not an unlimited vote of the massively deceived.

Nov 18, 2008 - 6:14 pm 72. Alana:

After living through all the screaming and accusing coming from the left for the last 8 years (and longer), and after being insulted just for existing, never mind daring to have differing views on anything - they are not about to get any unity from me.

Why should they? I dislike nearly everything they want to do, and are doing. “Unity” and “work with us” are just code word for “agree with us” and “let us do what we want.”

Their behavior has made me write them off completely for the rest of my life. They can go rot.

Nov 18, 2008 - 6:32 pm 73. Dave D:

They aren’t even going to get the 4. I’m already working on my Obama Derangement Syndrome catchphrases. Maybe I’ll make a few t-shirts and have some anti-obama rallies.

We can always rope in ted nugent and chuck norris for it. Bonus points if you can parody or recycle old democrat diatribes.

Nov 18, 2008 - 7:48 pm 74. zeppenwolf:

> I hereby resolve that I will not travel to Washington, D.C., dress up in tacky pink lingerie…

Well that’s cool, but are you willing to wear *tasteful* pink lingerie? Or perhaps tacky lingerie of a different color?

Please amend your article asap, thank you.

And as far as being nice to the left goes… well, yeah– we’re decent people, so we can’t behave, or even imagine behaving, in the manner that they do.

But don’t for one second think that our restraint will make one iota’s worth of difference to the left. They are, quite clearly, beyond shame.

Nov 18, 2008 - 8:43 pm 75. Truth First:

President Obama recently visited White House and met the man responsible for some of the worst crimes against humanity: George W. Bush.

I spoke with President Obama this week about his experience there. It was an emotionally draining moment for the young President. “Being in the White House was disturbing and odd”, Obama told me. “We’re about to have this legal transfer of power yet the symbol and home of that power is a place where all these illegal things were done”.

“As I walked through the halls that place I could see and feel all the weight and presence of all the old white power. You cannot escape it. There was dozens, hundreds of paintings and statues of white men of power. There was nothing there to indicate that the majority of humanity is of color. I really do not know how I can live there or have my family there.”

“I thought about slavery and I could hear the cries of America’s victims in that place. If you listen, you can hear them”.

As for the leader of the current regime in power Obama chose not to comment. “We will be making changes,” he said.

http://truthfirstnow.blogspot.com

Nov 18, 2008 - 9:14 pm 76. Truth First:

The crimes of America that Obama must address
As President, Barack Obama will be the chief legal enforcer of the land. Additionally, he will be the first legitimate U.S. President. He is African. He has no ties to slave-owning families, exploitive corporations, racism or any U.S. policy or law that has murdered or oppressed people.

America’s history is one of lies, death, exploitation, racism, oppression, greed and war. Obama will confront this history and he will change the course of history by bringing America to justice.

The crimes of America are many and the most recent crimes include:

The Hurricane Katrina attack of 2004. Estimated number of dead: 5,000 to 20,000

The war on Iraq and Afghanistan. Over a million dead.

The poisoning of African communities by the CIA with crack and cocaine.

The campaign of political intimidation of African leaders

The creation of the AIDS virus to kill Africans

The economic terrorism aimed at all African peoples

The creation of consumer products designed to create African sterility

The murder of Khalid Muhammad, the leader of the New Black Panther Party

The assassination of Malcolm X

http://truthfirstnow.blogspot.com

Nov 18, 2008 - 9:15 pm 77. Pajamas Media » My Post-Election Resolution for Political Unity:

[...] Pajamas Media » My Post-Election Resolution for Political Unity As for their being Christianity within the Republican party to any great extent, well, I must have missed the multiple calls for conservatives to pray that the Lord’s will be done in the past election. I also didn’t see much in the way … [...]

Nov 18, 2008 - 9:22 pm 78. Paul_Unalaska:

The ‘truthfirstnow’ blog.. whoa. That site is spooky! I feel like Ji Carrey’s character from Ace Ventura. Burn my clothes and huddle in the shower to wash away my earlier action..

I queried commenter Steve P earlier regarding Iraqi civilian casualties. Honestly, I’d like to know. Steve P claimed the aforementioned to be ~150,000 - 1,000,000. What is that? It’s similiar to a bailout # Paulson pulled out of his bum in September (uh, 700 Billion)

Also, are the suicide bombers, roadside bombs, RPG attacks, etc., being contributed to ‘Casualties caused by American forces’ total as well? Utterly ridiculous.

Jason Sieckmann, I agree with your sentiment in many regards. Though this blog specifically speaks of the ‘Unity’ article. Hence the reactions, comments.

Nov 19, 2008 - 12:14 am 79. just a American:

Barack Obama’s Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr gets his retirement home and slush fund “the church had actually secured a $1.6 million mortgage for the home purchase, and attached a $10 million line of credit, for reasons unspecified in the paperwork.”

This is how Obama’s people get help think how many food banks or kids could have been helped for 10 million but tax the suckers is what they say not what they believe in true help for people.

Nov 19, 2008 - 12:30 am 80. Kathy:

Susan, I will show Obama as much respect as he shows toward the unborn child.

Nov 19, 2008 - 4:53 am 81. Jaz:

Dear Ms Shiver,
“… a concept that is COMPLETELY UNKNOWN in undeveloped nations and most of the Arab world.”
Rather than exhorting other people to read, perhaps you would do well to read a little wider yourself before showing your prejudices and ignorance.

Zakat is one of the five pillars of Islam.

“If you give alms openly, it is well; but if you do it secretly and give to the poor, that is better. - (Qur-an 2:271a)”

Perhaps in other countries people prefer to give charity secretly rather than an ostentatious display of their munificence.

Also the problem with private giving as opposed to state provision, is that it becomes the sole purview of the rich - ie those with money decide on who will receive their generosity. This is hardly a democratic distribution.

If the state provides for it citizens then it provides equally without it being simply the plaything of the rich, who may have their own particular agendas they wish to champion.

Nov 19, 2008 - 5:03 am 82. Ms. Attitude:

75. Truth First: Yeah, right, Obama said those things and pigs can fly!! What is the goal of your website? Incite civil discontent between the races? Your page is no better than a KKK page.

Unity? No! I welcome views from the other side as long as they are on point and not derogatory. Every elected official needs to be questioned. It’s a check on his policies. I’ve never agreed 100% with an elected official. There have been times when someone with opposing views from my own has given me reason to change my mind. That was done with logical thinking and adult conversation. With name calling and nonfactual information the listener will shut down.

Nov 19, 2008 - 6:10 am 83. Rashputin:

Jaz - “If the state provides for it citizens then it provides equally without it being simply the plaything of the rich, who may have their own particular agendas they wish to champion”

While that’s a wonderful theoretical view, in practice it doesn’t work that way. Unless there are term limits on the Senate, you have a beyond rich nobility passing out rewards according to their own agendas rather than according to the common good.

Why, for example, is the USPS perpetually in the red and yet staffed by well paid unionized employees rather than being staffed for the most part by those who are in poverty and in need of work? Lower wages there would allow for more employees and more jobs rather than more unearned income. Unearned income is a great evil in the eyes of those who demand higher and more progressive taxation, yet they have carefully constructed a huge class that exists on unearned income. That, in and of itself, is clearly an agenda and not an agenda intended to do the most good for the nation as a whole.

As much as I hate to say it, McGovern’s approach would have done less harm and would have been better in the long run than what we ended up with due to the inability of the conservatives in this country to deliver enough improvement and systemic reform to retain the majority in the years since then.

Regards

Nov 19, 2008 - 7:06 am 84. ajacksonian:

Sam Adams did, indeed, put down some great thoughts pre-Declaration, as did many others, but one in his Rights of the Colonists takes a bit of looking at:

‘”Just and true liberty, equal and impartial liberty” in matters spiritual and temporal, is a thing that all Men are clearly entitled to, by the eternal and immutable laws of God and nature, as well as by the law of Nations, & all well grounded municipal laws, which must have their foundation in the former.

In regard to Religeon, mutual tolleration in the different professions thereof, is what all good and candid minds in all ages have ever practiced; and both by precept and example inculcated on mankind: And it is now generally agreed among christians that this spirit of toleration in the fullest extent consistent with the being of civil society “is the chief characteristical mark of the true church”2 & In so much that Mr. Lock has asserted, and proved beyond the possibility of contradiction on any solid ground, that such toleration ought to be extended to all whose doctrines are not subversive of society. The only Sects which he thinks ought to be, and which by all wise laws are excluded from such toleration, are those who teach Doctrines subversive of the Civil Government under which they live. The Roman Catholicks or Papists are excluded by reason of such Doctrines as these “that Princes excommunicated may be deposed, and those they call Hereticks may be destroyed without mercy; besides their recognizing the Pope in so absolute a manner, in subversion of Government, by introducing as far as possible into the states, under whose protection they enjoy life, liberty and property, that solecism in politicks, Imperium in imperio3 leading directly to the worst anarchy and confusion, civil discord, war and blood shed-4′

Well, there were some calmer heads and Sam Adams does, generally, get it right, but the idea isn’t that we are a Christian Nation but a Westphalian Christian Nation that realizes there must be a divide between secular government and the ecclesiastical sort, because the 30 Years War leaving 15-20% of Europe dead (and with a much higher percentage than that in the Germanies), putting religious bias into law was seen as a lethal activity. Secular government is the common government that can, and indeed does, trace its roots back not only through Christian tradition but, via pre-existing English law, via the Common Law and Nordic tradition.

Noah Webster would look at it thusly on 17 OCT 1787 during the back-and-forth on the Constitution:

“Of all the memorable eras that have marked the progress of men from the savage state to the refinements of luxury, that which has combined them into society, under a wise system of government, and given form to a nation, has ever been recorded and celebrated as the most important. Legislators have ever been deemed the greatest benefactors of mankind—respected when living, and often deified after their death. Hence the fame of Fohi and Confucius—of Moses, Solon and Lycurgus—of Romulus and Numa—of Alfred, Peter the Great, and Mango Capac; whose names will be celebrated through all ages, for framing and improving constitutions of government, which introduced order into society and secured the benefits of law to millions of the human race.

This western world now beholds an era important beyond conception, and which posterity will number with the age of Czar of Muscovy, and with the promulgation of the Jewish laws at Mount Sinai. The names of those men who have digested a system of constitutions for the American empire, will be enrolled with those of Zamolxis and Odin, and celebrated by posterity with the honors which less enlightened nations have paid to the fabled demi-gods of antiquity.

But the origin of the AMERICAN REPUBLIC is distinguished by peculiar circumstances. Other nations have been driven together by fear and necessity—the governments have generally been the result of a single man’s observations; or the offspring of particular interests. IN the formation of our constitution, the wisdom of all ages is collected—the legislators of antiquity are consulted—as well as the opinions and interests of the millions who are concerned. In short, in it an empire of reason.”

Reason and judgment are necessary in having faith and common government, and that common government takes wisdom from all sources as we may not discern in which way the Almighty gives us direction. We cannot say where wisdom will show up, and religion cannot be excluded as a source of it… nor can it be seen as the sole source of it as there are so many religions that coming to common government requires more than *just* religious basis for laws, but reasoned judgment to ensure that there is tranquility and justice in that law when applied to peoples of many faiths in a diverse land.

If you try to remove religion from government, you remove government *itself* because there is so much wisdom from multiple religions that to remove religion makes us poorer. Our agreement, as citizens, is to have a reasoned and rational basis for common government that is tied to that common agreement. We remember that while many founders were Christians, that they also had tart words for each other’s religious views, with Jefferson going to annotate his own bible to ‘correct it’ as he saw fit to do. That is the strength of America: not setting doctrine, but learning from it to form better government for everyone and ensuring that no religion is slighted, including those holding none. And as we are a majority believer Nation, then the tone is reflected of the general belief.

Do give Sam Adams his fair due and also acknowledge his lacks and limitations. That is what makes him great - not just the good but in coming to work with the negatives and *still* govern well… until, of course, his governorship started to cause the Shaysite Rebellion. But that is the city vs. rural problem we live with to this day.

Nov 19, 2008 - 7:38 am 85. The Historian:

THE “GLOBAL WARMING” SCAM
Humans will never control climate on planet earth. Why Obama and others promise they will is examined at this link:

http://greensrealworld.blogspot.com/2008/11/chasing-ghost-of-climate-change.html

Nov 19, 2008 - 8:29 am 86. Pee Wee Herman, Community Organizer:

I for one, will show President Obama as much respect and courtesy as President Bush was shown for the last 8 years. No more, no less.

Does that mean we can call him “Chimpy McBama”, and show pictures of him with a chimpanzee’s face photoshopped on?

Nov 19, 2008 - 9:43 am 87. Barrett:

I am inclined to be respectful, but I make no promises.

When you read the comments of the leftists here and M Simon (66) referenced about Soros and his lack of conscience, you can see that rational discussion is unlikely to occur. Can you imagine having a rational discussion with Dr. Lumplevin?

The demise in our ability to have rational debates about complex subjects without impugning each other eliminates the ability to find real solutions.

Nov 20, 2008 - 1:50 pm 88. Jeff:

Political unity isn’t going to happen if Obama and his leftist illuminati cabinet continue to break campaign promises and govern the country as they see fit. The change that America needs is being edited by Obama on a daily basis and those pie-in-the-sky campaign promises are falling by the wayside.

Nov 21, 2008 - 8:39 pm

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