Pajamas Media

85 Comments

1. Perry:

Nero fiddles….

Jul 19, 2009 - 4:44 am 2. jerryofva:

In the summer of 2001 the National Intelligence Officer for the Middle East published an article in the NYT. It said much the same thing. Radical Islam is a transnational point of view that resonates in the Progressive mind. They see Islam as a compatible doctrine and believe that the power of Progressive ideas will transform it to a modern secular point of view. That is why Europe’s parties of left have made alliances with radical Islam.

In the 1950’s Martin Heidegger was asked whether is favored Communism or Democratic institutions since Germany had been defeated by both. Without hesitation he chose Communism. Like Heidegger, Progressives have rejected Western institutions and natural gravitate toward any neo-Fascist (totalitarian) movement. Radical Islam is the new option. The individual Progressive always assumes that being part of the illuminati makes him exempt from any negative consequences of the new order.

Jul 19, 2009 - 4:49 am 3. Rockmelon:

Underhill obviously lives under a rock and can see no further than the tip of his nose. He is telling us that the Emperor has new clothes; but his argument falls short; there is no mistaking the robes, beards, hijabs and burka’s! Neither is there any language barrier when it comes to Muslims letting the west know that they are ‘different’ and that we must assimilate to their customs and their laws that they are blindingly clinging to 14 centuries after their false prophet pulled a Ponzi on them.

If human rights are to be held above all else, then we must stay and fight because there is no where to run. I think it was Underhill’s grandfather who on December 7, 1941 looked up at the Hawaiian skies and exclaimed that there must be an air show today!

Jul 19, 2009 - 5:04 am 4. Lynn:

An Islamic anything is cause for concern since it is a religion of the earth, with a founder who coveted all things material and cared nothing for the soul.

It might lend itself to become a non-spiritual faith or order, but it still uses the religion of Islam to conquer, and hold power over the peoples of the earth. It covers all, from waking to waking, politics, money, relationships, the courts, what one wears, what one speaks, who ones friends are, etc. All human activities are under the Rule of Islam whether one is considered a practicing Muslim or not. I really doesn’t matter since as long as the world acknowledges the power of Islam OVER everything then it has won.

The world today is pretty much under it’s thumb as we speak, our soldiers, our politicians, our citizens living under it’s influence and dealing with it’s actions. The civilized world is an appeaser to Islam. It is not surprising that there are people in the West who are failing to acknowledge what is plain to see. Islam is on the march and those in the West who have a deep resentment toward the West and our culture will not be alarmed at it’s rise until it is too late, if it is not already. We seem weak and appear to suffer from self-loathing, unwilling to stand up for what in our culture has made us successful, instead apologizing and bowing to the world giving to them what is never enough.

It seems to me a president was elected that reflects this sentiment.

Jul 19, 2009 - 5:55 am 5. The Time Traveller:

If you really want to know what the followers of the “religion of peace” have in mind for us Infidels, visit:

http://media.terrorismawareness.org/files/MPAC.swf

See, especially, the part about the murder and beheading of defenseless, little Christian girls. I wonder what Mr. Underhill might have to say about that?

Jul 19, 2009 - 6:11 am 6. Thomas L......:

Well, I hope he likes to frequent gay bars in Amsterdam.

Jul 19, 2009 - 6:20 am 7. jw:

Underhill ignores the case of Ilan Halimi in Paris who was tortured and murdered by French Mohammedans because he was a Jew. The case was just recently adjudicated.

Jul 19, 2009 - 6:20 am 8. Blackwater:

If someone in your country regularly visits islamist websites and forums and offers support for jihad, islamic empires, overthrowing governments, terrorism, sharia law, etc, or if they subscribe to islamist channels on youtube and put graphics up in their background of jihadist images like al queda logos while favoriting and uploading islamist videos, or if they publicly attend or partake in public islamist organizations THEN ARREST THEM, EXECUTE THEM, OR DEPORT THEM TO YEMEN AND NEVER LET THEM BACK INTO A WESTERN COUNTRY EVER AGAIN. I don’t give a crap if it violates laws or some leftist human rights group goes berserk over it. Time to wake up and start getting ruthless and unforgiving with these retarded islamist barbarians before another damn 9/11 happens or they convert some young kids to orthodox islam. If I read just one more story about islamists who were trained in al queda camps in Afghanistan and Pakistan and then are released from American or Western custody only to be sent to freaking Bermuda where they’re given rooms in luxory hotels with freaking sparkling beaches and free icecream at the expense of American tax payers then I swear to god I might as well join some vigilante group to take out these islamist bastards in our midst ourselves since our own governments have seemingly lost their freaking minds and are incapable of protecting this country.

Jul 19, 2009 - 6:49 am 9. Blackwater:

We also need to persistantly criticize and belittle islam on a government scale in order to secularize muslims. We should also close our immigration offices to uneducated low skilled muslims since they’re prone to subscribe to islamist groups and live off welfae while committing crime. And we need to deport all muslim immigrants (and anyone else in general) who doesn’t work for a living and just leeches off welfare. No sharia courts. No sharia law in our own legislation. No “islamic controlled zones” where police aren’t allowed to enter. No islamic schools that teach hate. No islamic mosques which preach hate. No burqas. And no more large scale islamic immigration. PERIOD. Deport the violent islamic rioters too.

Jul 19, 2009 - 6:56 am 10. Maggie:

Mistake #1 – reading Newsweek. Mad Magazine has more thoughtful articles.

Jul 19, 2009 - 7:00 am 11. Anonymous:

Damn, is Newsweek high?

Jul 19, 2009 - 7:04 am 12. AThinkingPerson:

Re #4 Time Traveler: That video link you provided was HORRIFYING! I am linking to it in an email to everyone I know.

After watching it I had to ask….Is it too late already?

Jul 19, 2009 - 7:13 am 13. Brian Richard Allen:

Shalom, Ms Gould — and thank you. Your observations are as usual astutely observed and accurately reported. I live all around the world and, having averaged more than a quarter million miles a year, these past 40-odd years, have long seen the hesperophobic hatred up close and personal. The West will awaken and catch up with that other well known Anglo-American, Winston Churchill’s, 1899 … River War observations — or, the psychopathologically-barbarian having meanwhile accessed ‘the strong arms of our science’ and acquired the fundamental technical skills to use it to facilitate their compulsion to murder and to destroy, Judeo-Christian/Western/Human Civilization will be eliminated from the Earth and Mankind plunged into a new Dark Age from which our species is unlikely to ever emerge.

But what’s a “Newsweek?”

(As in: I knew one once — in pre-Katherine Graham days — but it died)

Cordially – B A

Brian Richard Allen
Los Angeles Califobambicated 90028
And the Far Abroad

Jul 19, 2009 - 7:39 am 14. Joe Bison:

Did anyone think that maybe respondents to the
surveys may be lying? Ever hear of “war is
deception” and taqqiya?

Does anyone believe that when a society
reaches a certain point in Muslim population
that this group will submit to the desires
of the non-Muslim population? If so you
really don’t know very many intimately
do you.

Also when a tipping point comes the more
devout tend to “enforce” discipline among
the “liberals” of the faith. As well in
North America it seems to me that the
children and grandchildren of lax Muslims
I knew in the past are much more radical.

And don’t start with Bush and that crap
because this has been going on for quite
a while. As for Newsweek-they got the story
wrong-it is the one going down the toilet
editorially and circulation-wise.

Jul 19, 2009 - 8:00 am 15. Barry 0351:

Islamification is something the Euros need.
It will teach them a lot about the real world.

Jul 19, 2009 - 8:14 am 16. T. O'Connor:

Carole Gould, I hope that you will visit our soon-to-disappear website (along with all other “Geocities” websites) in which we have faithfully re-presented the attitudes that appeared in the Irish national media in the aftermath of 9/11/01, and of the US invasion of Afghanistan (as faithfully as “fair use” would allow).

http://www.geocities.com/irelandvus911/

During the remainder of 2001, the major Irish news-dailies and TV-news broadcasts expressed an often comical tension in the Irish MSM between the seeming requirement to condemn the US at every turn, and the need to account for Ireland’s own culpability vis-a-vis the strategies of Islamic extremism.

How is it that Ireland allowed the likes of al Qaida fundraiser Hamid Aich – wanted by American authorities for his alleged role in the Millennium bomb plot, among other things – to have lived handsomely on a generous government dole, and to then have escaped right under their noses (to the eternal consternation of the FBI)?

The more even-handed Irish Independent (which allowed each of its articles to be linked) at one point asked whether “Ireland’s links to Islamic terrorists have given rise to fears that this country may be a soft touch for international terrorists [?]”

Meant to be read as a sequence (for maximum laugh effect), the final word in this particular section is given to the American-born Taliban John Walker, who “told anyone who asked him that he was Irish.”

Please read the rest of this account under the “Friends Like These” section, in the sidebar “The Weakest Link?”. And don’t miss the “Letters to the Editor” section! (Only make sure you’re sitting down.)

Our website has had tens-of-thousands of visitors over the years thanks to “Geocities”. Sadly, this unique account of Ireland’s astounding role in the immediate post-9/11 world will soon vanish.

Jul 19, 2009 - 8:29 am 17. Strawman:

What was that the Lenin called them? Useful boneheads? Useful dopes? Useful knuckleheads…?

Jul 19, 2009 - 8:43 am 18. Kentski:

Muslims are not immigrating to Europe…they are colonizing Europe. Do you think Anjem Choudhary and his followers are interested in becoming part of the British civil society, and its legal traditions that protect the rights of the British individuals?

Jul 19, 2009 - 8:57 am 19. JED:

The corrupted form of Jihad was never to end even with the achievement of its three mandates:
1. Drive the infidels from the hold land
2. Purify the faith
3. Expand

Jul 19, 2009 - 9:06 am 20. Steve:

I gave up on reading all periodicals a long time ago and as far as I am concerned they are all just opinion articles or outright left wing propaganda not worth reading much less buying.

Jul 19, 2009 - 9:13 am 21. Blue Collar Todd:

This weekend there was a Rise of Islam conference in America. It seems quiet clear that Liberalism will appease radical Islam not matter what the cost. What is even more irrational about this is the fact that Liberal feminists and gay activists have bought into this line of thinking, and we know what Islam will do to women and homosexuals: put women in burkas and hang homosexuals.

Those of us who see this connection need to speak out, blog about, and raise a righteous ruckus about it because many people in Europe and America will start to die if the appeasement of Islam continues.

Jul 19, 2009 - 9:33 am 22. Stevemmn:

Newsweek has sunk to the level of a tabloid. The National Enquirer has as much credibility as Newsweek.

Jul 19, 2009 - 9:42 am 23. Eric:

There will be war. It’s just a matter of time and if Europe is to survive the war should commence sooner rather than later.

I don’t understand the ongoing collective suicide of the West via immigration.

Jul 19, 2009 - 9:51 am 24. RandyChandler:

So people won’t get it until guys in turbans are whacking them with big sticks for violating codes of behavior/dress.

Jul 19, 2009 - 9:53 am 25. JFP:

Well, I suppose it’s progress that Newsweek is finally taking the idea of an eventual Muslim takeover of Europe seriously enough to analyze it and argue that it’s wrong, instead of simply calling those of us who accept it racists.

This seems to be the result of the election of a number of center-right politicians in Europe rather than anything else. People in Europe have this perception that they’re being invaded and that their politicians, who are generally leftist, are doing nothing about it. So, they start voting for people on the right, and even far right. They may do so reluctantly, but they do it.

Whether writing silly articles like Underhill’s will change things is anyone’s guess, but anyone can see that the politicians of Europe did very little to assuage people’s fears after the murder of Theo van Gogh.

Jul 19, 2009 - 10:07 am 26. Donna V.:

good comments, jerryofva. However, I quibble with this:

Radical Islam is a transnational point of view that resonates in the Progressive mind.

Catholicism is transnational too, and yet it decidedly does not resonate in the Progressive mind. It’s a mystery why people who hate the Pope’s views on abortion, birth control, divorce, etc seem to have no problem with a religion that advocates the death penalty for homosexuals and adulterous women.

I think it’s because Islam does not bear the taint of the West (tainted in the eyes of self-loathing Western elites, that is). And because, like you say, they always imagine that exceptions will be made for the elites and they always imagine that they will be among the elites.

Jul 19, 2009 - 10:50 am 27. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Carol Gould
RE: I’m Suddenly Remindeded Of….

The magazine urges readers to stop worrying and learn to love the multicultural utopia. — Carol Gould

….of a Dr. Strangelove approach to militant Islam.

And, just to add sauce for this particular ‘goose’, I notice this interesting juxtaposition of articles…..

….Iran Going Nuke….

….and….

….the effects of EMP on US.

Imagine 90% of Americans dead inside of a year. All from one nuke at 300 miles above Omaha, Nebraska…..

And Newsweek says we have nothing to be ‘concerned’ about…..

How VERY ‘odd’ of them…..

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Be Prepared. -- Motto, Boy Scouts of America]

Jul 19, 2009 - 10:57 am 28. Chuck Pelto:

TO: JED
RE: Forgot Something….

The corrupted form of Jihad was never to end even with the achievement of its three mandates:
1. Drive the infidels from the hold land
2. Purify the faith
3. Expand — JED

….REPEAT! And REPEAT! And REPEAT!

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they aren't out to 'get you'.]

Jul 19, 2009 - 11:01 am 29. Sherab Zangpo:

The subversive-nihilist press would say ANYTHING that can help to destroy the West and Freedom.
Anything.
The nihilist-subversives hate our history, our civilization, our Religion, our Tradition.
They just want the West dead, gone, finished.

Thank you for the opportunity to comment.

Jul 19, 2009 - 11:16 am 30. Mongoose:

Donna V.: You have it exactly. The left hate western civilization and all it works.

They reject its very foundation, which is the Judeo-Christian tradition. They do this out of pride and self-loathing, but most importantly they hate this tradition for it is wholly opposed to what they are up to: Theft and the aggrandizement of every foul human appetite and sin. They not only reject God but any notion that the world is anything other than a material place.

They wallow in their evil and call it virtue.

Jul 19, 2009 - 11:19 am 31. Donna V.:

T. O’Connor: Thank you for that link. Well, Ireland has its soft-headed PC morons, it’s America-haters and terrorist symps like any other Western nation, including us, I suppose, although I think that your site might shock those who imagine the Emerald Isle is a pro-American country.

Too many people in the West take freedom and the rule of law so completely for granted that they’ve come to believe it’s innate – that the government or Islamic fanatics can’t take it away. Consequently, they have no respect for the institutions that safeguard freedom, especially the military.

Jul 19, 2009 - 11:53 am 32. David M. in Europe:

Thank you Newsweek and Underhill for reminding us that stoning, beheading, antisemitism, dictatorship, terrorism, backwardness, barbarity and Islamic intolerance are no cause for concern. I will go and sleep without worrying me because a dying worthless paper and a sick lefty have assured me that an Islamic Europe is no cause for concern.

Jul 19, 2009 - 12:03 pm 33. Delia:

This does NOT bode well with me.

Jul 19, 2009 - 12:05 pm 34. T. O'Connor:

Donna V., Thanks for the recognition. The years 2001-2003 were a miserable time for most Americans in Ireland, even “progressive” ones. For those Yanks living there at the time, those who weren’t willing to perfectly mimic anti-American attitudes were cowed into submission. Among the several ex-pats who worked hard to complete our website – among us a Trinity College professor, a former ACLU lawyer, and an artist – only one was willing to use his real name.

You wrote that “too many people in the West take freedom and the rule of law so completely for granted that they’ve come to believe it’s innate.” Too true! The grand irony that’s lost so far on absolutely everyone is that in our ostensibly “post-modern,” Foucaultian age, nothing at all is supposed to be “innate”. Nothing that is until we see an opportunity to loathe ourselves out loud, and then suddenly everyone’s belief system is as solid as the metaphysics of old.

The 2nd poster above, jerryofva, has done something similar on behalf of the Left, albeit unwittingly. I believe that Heidegger said that there was NO meaningful difference between Soviet communism and Western democracy, not that the latter was preferable. He correctly adds that “like Heidegger, Progressives have rejected Western institutions.” What too few appreciate is that Heidegger critiqued the West because he despised progressivism!, so one can only begin to imagine the conceptual incoherence when Progressives draw on him for sustenance.

Undergirding today’s general want of leadership on the right is the sore lack in our collective educations which too often comes to the aid of the left, albeit unwittingly. As many post-Heideggerians have shown, Heidegger can just as easily be used to bolster the likes of a Burke or an Oakeshott as of an Obama. So when will we learn enough to expose the Sophistry of the progressive Left for what it is? When will we expose and challenge these closet metaphysicians who want to have it both ways?

Jul 19, 2009 - 12:48 pm 35. blotto:

DonnaV: Okay so is it a pathology or is a conspiracy? Why is the Left entering into a relationship with a religion (paradox right there) that wants the death of western civilization? What is it that caused Obama, Reid, Kos, HuffPo, Dowd, Hollyweird et al to align themselves with people who will eventually behead them?

We, the Right, see it. We see the looming disaster. Why not the Left? Is the Left so full of self hate, and loathing of America that they would rather have an Islamist theocracy in charge of them-even if that theocracy lets the elite live? It is their hatered of America that drives them to support illegal immigration, the destruction of American values and traditions, multiculturalism, and the devaluing of our relgious mores. But this alliance with the devil will lead to their deaths.

Sure the Left seeks totalitarianism but at what cost?

Jul 19, 2009 - 1:04 pm 36. T. O'Connor:

blotto, not that you asked but personally I don’t distinguish between a “conspiracy” and a “pathology.” For over 100 years the major premise of the most extreme Leftists has been that “what is is bad,” to quote a friend of mine. If that’s the premise, how isn’t that a pathology? Conspiracy-thinking comes afterwards, by way of an explanation.

“Why is the Left entering into a relationship with a religion,” … yes, a paradox right there.

But to go at it more directly, it’s a double-standard, a contradiction, an incoherence. For the time being those are words that still bother people. But these vulnerable spots are as difficult to address as all of Obama’s still-effective “straw man” arguments. We simply must be smarter-than, and then relentless.

I hasten to add (since my last post) that I think Heidegger, the man, was a jerk. But I keep my focus on the clearing that he made, especially for those who followed his insights into Aristotle’s Nichomachean Ethics. In someone like the right-leaning Hans-Georg Gadamer, such insights lead right to the wisdom embodied in our institutions, and to borrow from Donna V.’s post above, to the “respect for the institutions that safeguard freedom, especially the military.” Very Burkean, that …

Jul 19, 2009 - 1:26 pm 37. johnt:

Relax, it’s only the liberal Death Wish, been around for years in different guises, James Burnham was writing about it 45 years ago. It’s a constant and I think they’re hoping that this time islam can deliver the goods, you know, the suicide or death of western culture and the punishment we all deserve by dint of being alive.

Remember, these ghouls call themselves “progressives”, only an enlightened person can see the benefits of extinction.

The Freud of “Beyond the Pleasure Principle” was on to something, and he probably never read the NY times and certainly didn’t have the pleasure of meeting Hussien Obama.

Jul 19, 2009 - 1:32 pm 38. Mary Jackson:

Newsweek need to read Bruce Bawer’s “While Europe Slept”.

Jul 19, 2009 - 1:45 pm 39. JED:

#28 Chuck Pelto

Please do not give me credit for that list; the three goals of jihad. Richard Fernandez reported it years ago. It came from the walls of Osama Bin Laden’s Yemen hide out before he left for Taliban land.
I only quote it because it is so damn simple for a simple guy like me to understand. All of the rest of articles about the pending world conversion to Islam only confuse the issue with extraneous detail. The choice of conversion by submission or sword is plain enough. The other choices are also plain enough.

Jul 19, 2009 - 2:15 pm 40. T. O'Connor:

After 9/11/01 Bruce Bawer in Norway observed and wrote about the same things that my colleagues and I witnessed in Ireland.

Here’s Bawer’s “Hating America,” originally published in “The Hudson Review”: http://www.hudsonreview.com/BawerSp04.html

And our own, doomed website (again) about post-9/11 Ireland: http://www.geocities.com/irelandvus911/

Now what and who do “secular” American progressives hate more than “born-again” Christians?

What I set out to achieve in any of my many conversation is to sneakily appropriate the usual anti-Christian rhetoric and then turn it against my openly rationalistic interlocutor – exactly as someone who is offended by being proselytized to by someone else’s God fantasy. (No offense intended to Christians.) As one cleverly exposes the often abundant – but otherwise hidden – metaphysical assumptions and references, you will drive the other to distraction! It’s long past time that we on the right expose such double-standards as a matter of reflex.

One can do the same thing with common notions about “pathology.” To go back to that conspiracy reference above, it’s fairly easy to indicate that even when a conspiracy is objectively demonstrable, that doesn’t mean that as an object or a theme it isn’t functioning as a pathology in the beholder.

Jul 19, 2009 - 2:16 pm 41. Paul of Alexandria:

Barry 0351 (15):

Islamification is something the Euros need.
It will teach them a lot about the real world.

For an interesting take on this, read the (fictional) Caliphate by Tom Kratman.
I sincerely pray that it never goes this far.

Jul 19, 2009 - 2:50 pm 42. kael:

Vote BNP

Jul 19, 2009 - 3:19 pm 43. Paul of Alexandria:

blotto (35):

DonnaV: Okay so is it a pathology or is a conspiracy? Why is the Left entering into a relationship with a religion (paradox right there) that wants the death of western civilization? What is it that caused Obama, Reid, Kos, HuffPo, Dowd, Hollyweird et al to align themselves with people who will eventually behead them?

Well, to begin with I’d recommend reading The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis.

IMHO:
1) The secularist progressives don’t have any real faith of their own and refuse to acknowledge that anyone else truly believes what they preach. Therefore they cannot believe that there is truly a threat. After all, any reasonable person believes in “live and let live”. No reasonable Muslim would force his belief on anybody else, so as long as they keep it in their own segment of society it’s not their problem.

2) They also hate Christianity inherently, because Christians give them no breaks. People want – and Islam, above all other religions delivers – a nice, succinct set of rules to follow. So long as you follow those rules you are ok, no matter what else you do in the meantime. Christians, on the other hand, demand that all of your actions conform to the dicate “Love the Lord your God and love your neighbor as yourself”. Islam allows a wide variety of perversions (pedophilia in particular is very widespread under Islam) just so long as your surface life follows the rules. Christianity looks in all of the nooks and crannies and demands utter (and, of course, unachievable) perfection.

3) Finally, Christianity’s only comfort is something outside of themselves, and the progressives cannot stand to be told that they are not the cream of society and the last word in humanity. The only thing that they want to acknowledge outside of themselves is the “in” crowd, who tell them how great they are. Even of you aren’t a jihadist, Islam offers you acceptance no matter what you do, provided that you follow the 5 Pillars.

Jul 19, 2009 - 3:21 pm 44. Timmy:

It really is sort of scary to consider just how shallow so many otherwise “intelligent” people are on this issue of Western civilization and Islam. There has been an absolute failure to educate people as to what Western civilization is, what it evolved out of, how Islam is incompatible with it, how Islam destroyed the civilizations that it conquered. People, even people in important leadership positions in the West are like children who due to multicultural brainwashing and an inability to think for themselves can see no further than trite slogans about how everyone can just get along, all religions are equal, all people are equal, etc. etc. There really is no answer to this. There are too many of them and they will prevent those who know better from ever doing anything to save the West.

Jul 19, 2009 - 3:54 pm 45. Lynn:

Perhaps we were being prepped for the United States to follow Europe’s lead when President Obama spoke saying we are not longer a majority Christian Nation, and then calling the hajab a ‘right’ of women.

A Christian man denying the strength of the Judeo/Christian culture in our country and predicting it’s demise or at the least weakening. He spoke of the hijab as a choice when he very well knows it is a sign of control and repression in much of the world and has nothing to do with choice except in the fashionable west. The hijab and the fringed scarf the new style.

Thinking of it sends a chill down my spine. It is more than reaching out and starting a conversation, it is denying who we are, it is disregarding us.

Jul 19, 2009 - 4:46 pm 46. Marie-Claude:

Paul in Alexandria

“Petra has learned of a magic place across the sea: America.”

umm does that summarise the whole book ?

I heard lately that CAIR and mulims in VA aren’t quite the nice people that embrace the american dream

Jul 19, 2009 - 4:47 pm 47. ER White:

Islam and virgins: Why the obsession. Today the Jerusalem Post printed an article about teh marriage/Rape of Virgins before execution and here is a Gem I dug up earlier:

http://www.bloggybayou.com/2009/05/maybe-he-can-help-explain-positive.html

Jul 19, 2009 - 5:04 pm 48. T. O'Connor:

“There has been an absolute failure to educate people as to what Western civilization is …”

Or is it a successful refusal to pass along that knowledge, I wonder?

But before I get conspiratorial here, I’d plead for leniency by asking how many people we know and with whom we already agree who can explicate the distinction that was made at the time between the French Revolution and the American War of Independence? Furthermore, how many can speak knowledgeably about that same difference of opinion as it was argued between Adams and Jefferson? (A: shamefully few of us, yet it’s something so basic to the history of conservatism.)

Paul of Alexandria, I couldn’t disagree more about what secularists believe, or rather how the psychology actually operates during the believing (which I grant is different than the debated Object of belief).

IMHO:

1. The secular progressive experiences a faith, just a shabby, misguided one. I say, be relentless in challenging it as a shallow faith.

2. [Agreed]

3. But the secularist is a Deist, and believes in the inevitability of a Utopia, its secular-materialistic “God,” or at least in its constant urging throughout the “trajectory of history.”

The progressive being the pinnacle and “cream,” reminds me of the corruption throughout history in segments of the priest-class, which has always rationalized itself by its status as apex.

Current progressivism strikes me as an obnoxious, new priest-class, with nothing deep to offer other than what they make up each day … for the rest of us to follow (to paraphrase Justice Scalia).

Jul 19, 2009 - 5:10 pm 49. Joe kaffir:

I smell a big payoff of oily izlamic money paid to Mr. William Underhill for his favorable pro izlamic article for the advancement of jihad in dar al harb.

Jul 19, 2009 - 5:39 pm 50. Donna V.:

T. O’Connor: I am a great admirer of Burke (does anybody in Ireland read him any more?) so thank you for the compliment! BTW, an Irish email acquaintance prone to wax indignant about Gitmo has been very quiet since I told her I’d much rather be a prisoner in Gitmo than a kid in an Irish industrial school circa 1950. I too have had it with Irish moral preening (when it comes to zealous self-righteousness, the Irish leftists I have known give any of my grade school nuns a run for their money. They’ve replaced devotion to the Holy Name and Sacred Heart with fealty to St. Bono and St. Bob Geldof). They can’t blame the abuses detailed in the Ryan report on the Yanks or the Brits.

Paul of Alexandria: “The Screwtape Letters” are, indeed, a good guide to the Progressive mindset.

Jul 19, 2009 - 5:52 pm 51. Jack Olson:

Newsweek? Sounds familiar. I must have heard of them. Oh, yes, Newsweek was the magazine which falsely reported in 2005 that American soldiers at Guantanamo had flushed a Koran down a toilet. After this touched off riots in Muslim countries, Newsweek printed a correction saying that their report was wrong and it never happened. Oops. Awfully sorry for printing a libel against American soldiers. Too bad about those dead people. Oh, well, that’s American journalism!

Jul 19, 2009 - 6:19 pm 52. T. O'Connor:

Donna V., I just knew you were a Burkean from your words. No one in Ireland seems to have any idea who he is, but when Kirk wrote his great tome on the conservative mind in the 1950s, no one seemed to care then either. I did an informal survey outside Trinity College in Dublin once, where there’s a great bronze statue of Burke. I asked many passing students who he was but no one knew a thing about him.

You keep giving it back to those preening Irish! (Although you and I may be the only ones.)

Jul 19, 2009 - 6:29 pm 53. Timmy:

Even many so-called conservatives fail to appreciate the threat that Islam is. They think that “rule of law” is all that America needs to withstand a long-term never-ending Jihad whose purpose is to overthrow the current form of secular government. They fail to appreciate that it is not laws alone that have allowed America to survive and thrive. Only because nearly all the citizens adhered to relatively the same world view, one based upon the views of “right and wrong” as enunciated in the Bible was it possible to have so many people working together for the common good and for the most part obeying laws that were passed by elected representatives. Even common business transactions require that people can trust one another and the system to support them if the other party lies in a contract for instance. People do not appreciate that the Koran has an entirely different and incompatible view of “right and wrong” and that those who follow it will not voluntarily follow the laws as has happened through our short history. When enough people don’t believe in a law and choose as a community not to follow it that brings total chaos beyond the ability of the society to cope with it. And especially when the lawbreakers are following their religion, they just aren’t going to give up. We will have ALL of the same problems that every other society in history has had trying to deal with a sizable Islamic population, and once they are the majority the game is of course, over.

Jul 19, 2009 - 6:55 pm 54. Donna V.:

Current progressivism strikes me as an obnoxious, new priest-class, with nothing deep to offer other than what they make up each day … for the rest of us to follow (to paraphrase Justice Scalia).

And, to follow that thought – I think that most people have an innate desire for some sort of religion. The West is now mainly secular, but I don’t believe that means that the part of the human psyche that wishes to believe has magically vanished and has been replaced by reason. Faith has been transferred from God to progressive politics, which has, as you noted, its own priestly caste. And its own devils (the US, Israel, capitalists), holy texts, sacred rituals (the protest marches during the Bush era) and even indulgences in the form of carbon credits. It is essential to profess ones faith as loudly and frequently as possible and damn all unbelievers as not only misguided, but evil and base.

Jul 19, 2009 - 7:02 pm 55. massaraksh:

The chickens have come home to roost for Europe – they’re paying a stiff price for the unbridled political correctness and misguided multiculturalism. It’s a lesson for the US as well – it’s not too late, but we’d better wake up and smell the coffee.

The Islamists have figured out how the West works and shamelessly exploit it while the Westerners are still in denial.

Jul 19, 2009 - 7:49 pm 56. Banned by Huffpo:

“43. Paul of Alexandria:

blotto (35):

DonnaV: Okay so is it a pathology or is a conspiracy? Why is the Left entering into a relationship with a religion (paradox right there) that wants the death of western civilization? What is it that caused Obama, Reid, Kos, HuffPo, Dowd, Hollyweird et al to align themselves with people who will eventually behead them?

Well, to begin with I’d recommend reading The Screwtape Letters by C.S. Lewis.

IMHO:
1) The secularist progressives don’t have any real faith of their own and refuse to acknowledge that anyone else truly believes what they preach. Therefore they cannot believe that there is truly a threat. After all, any reasonable person believes in “live and let live”. No reasonable Muslim would force his belief on anybody else, so as long as they keep it in their own segment of society it’s not their problem.

2) They also hate Christianity inherently, because Christians give them no breaks. People want – and Islam, above all other religions delivers – a nice, succinct set of rules to follow. So long as you follow those rules you are ok, no matter what else you do in the meantime. Christians, on the other hand, demand that all of your actions conform to the dicate “Love the Lord your God and love your neighbor as yourself”. Islam allows a wide variety of perversions (pedophilia in particular is very widespread under Islam) just so long as your surface life follows the rules. Christianity looks in all of the nooks and crannies and demands utter (and, of course, unachievable) perfection.

3) Finally, Christianity’s only comfort is something outside of themselves, and the progressives cannot stand to be told that they are not the cream of society and the last word in humanity. The only thing that they want to acknowledge outside of themselves is the “in” crowd, who tell them how great they are. Even of you aren’t a jihadist, Islam offers you acceptance no matter what you say or do, provided that you follow the 5 Pillars.”

Thank you, you win the “bingo” award!

The moonbats that embrace Islam anywhere will be like their counterparts during the Soviet takeover . . . loved by those churning the pot, but when they are in power, they’re the first to get the bullet to the back of the head or a fourth class ticket to the Gulag.

And they are so stunned . . . “Why is this happening to me? I supported them, damn it!”

Can you imagine what Maureen Dowd will be thinking as they tie her to the stake and begin the stoning?

“Oh no, this is real, this is really, really happening to me, and . . . ow ow ow, that hurts!”

Jul 19, 2009 - 7:53 pm 57. Greg:

A wealthy Saudi probably funded the article and paid off Newsweek and the writer, just like they donate literally hundreds of millions of dollars to hundreds of American, Canadian, and European universities’ Middle Eastern Studies departments and then dictate to them what and how to teach and what lines to tow and how to brainwash the students and lull them to sleep and into appeasement.

Jul 19, 2009 - 8:07 pm 58. T. O'Connor:

Donna V., I can’t praise your remarks enough! You’ve got it just right, I reckon. I’ve enjoyed our chat today, and now must away.

Jul 19, 2009 - 8:30 pm 59. Bohemond:

Thank you, Ms. Gould- but I’m afraid you’re wasting your pixels on Newsweek. Newsweek has descended into nothing more than a pathetic left-wing rag and Dem Party mouth organ, a sort of Guardian for people who can’t read big words.

Jul 19, 2009 - 8:40 pm 60. Moogie:

“Newsweak” – for the weak minded.

This load of hooey, following on the tails of Jon Meacham’s gag-inducing homage to the love of his life, Obama (with an equally gag-inducing title, “Obama on Obama” – retch) could almost be comical, were it not so serious.

Our MSM could collectively write a book about liberal propaganda that would put Pravda to shame.

If we close our eyes and stick our fingers in our ears, the world looks pretty darned rosy.

2+2=5

Jul 19, 2009 - 10:25 pm 61. Peter Montbriand:

Too bad the idiots in the “real IRA” don’t turn their bombs on the radical muslims….

Jul 19, 2009 - 10:33 pm 62. Terry, Eilat - Israel:

If you follow just a few websites like The Religion of Peace or Jihad Watch or MEMRI only for a few days, you can see that Newsweek is not a credible source of information or analysis. Wishful thinking, white-washing, & the sheer stupidity of political correctness cannot mask the problem. Every day there are a hundred incidents, some atrocity somewhere, associated with Islam. Awareness of the danger of this totalitarian ideology is rising all over the world.

Jul 19, 2009 - 11:07 pm 63. Pius:

From the look of things, it appear that if czare is not tking in Britain, Islam will take over and imposed their doctrine compulsory for everybody, so it it is better for them to make haste while the sun is shining.

Jul 20, 2009 - 2:52 am 64. Mike2:

49. Joe kaffir:
“I smell a big payoff of oily izlamic money paid to Mr. William Underhill for his favorable pro izlamic article for the advancement of jihad in dar al harb.”

YES! It is oil, oil, and more oil that is driving all this. It is just that simple.

Jul 20, 2009 - 3:16 am 65. Timmy:

Since the “religion” of so many in the liberal West actually is the belief in multiculturalism, the belief that any and all beliefs/practices must be accepted and integrated into the West, just as a Christian martyr will refuse to renounce Christ even on pain of death, or just as the Muslim martyr will kill him or herself while killing Jews or other infidels, the liberal Western follower will in the end be willing to martyr themself and their civilization rather than renounce their religion. Only a full rejection of the modern notions of liberalism which in fact are a perversion of traditional liberal thought can save the West from destruction.

Jul 20, 2009 - 6:09 am 66. overhere:

This is what we face:

The establishment of a ruling class who are essentially lazy. Muslims aren’t the most productive people in the world. In effect it involves the re-establishment of slavery;

The end of literature and art. Islam doesn’t do it, and anyway publishing and new ideas is not something the Arabic world appreciates;

The wholesale rewriting of history;

The removal of vast amounts on non-Islamic material. Not only buildings but also paintings, statues, established books, the Bible, religious documents and artifacts from other cultures. Only one book counts, and be assured it isn’t by Marx or Darwin or Shakespeare and certainly will not include Harry Potter or even Beatrix Potter;

The destruction of cathedrals and churches, and the rise of large mosques dominating the skyline, the insistence that a desert culture and habits are acceptable to all;

A significant alteration to eating habits. If it isn’t halal, it’s not there;

The possibility of increased civil wars. The troubles of Europe 500 years ago will be reborn as Muslim sects are in a continual war. Muslims kill other muslims frequently, and with no regard. If France follows one Muslim code and Britain another, guess what happens?

The complete change of our legal system, with Sharia, ‘blood money’ and various anti-female practices replacing our present universal philosophy of equality;

The veiling and subjugation of women and their reduction to second class citizens. Add to that those who don’t convert to Islam, with attendant taxes and divisions;

The total demise of gays and people with alternative life-styles;

The increased persecution of Jews, and later the removal of Catholicism, Wicca, the persecution of Hindus, Rastafarians, Buddhists, and especially ‘non-believers’;

Capital punishment (beheading in particular) reintroduced in all societies, and often on flimsy evidence or hearsay;

The stoning of women who have been raped, and ‘honor killings’ by wronged families who either fail to marry their daughters off at an early age by arrangement or are shamed by the female falling in love;

Schools becoming merely empty shells for the reciting of the Koran, and females denied education;

The continuation of terrorism because it has been ‘proved’ to work. It merely changes targets;

The emergence of people like Bin Laden as ‘heroes’ and ‘visionaries’;

The imposition of a political order by people who are committed to anti-democratic elements, where the struggle for power is ostensibly based on a love of God – though an angry and vicious God who thrives on killing.

The above points aren’t in order of importance or a suggestion of a time scale. But they constitute some of the aims of Islam.

But hey, it isn’t going to happen according to the wise and great in our midst. Well, only if you look up and start to think…

Jul 20, 2009 - 11:25 am 67. carol:

Yes, and Hitler was on a little joy ride around German and the Jews…hhmmmm

don’t read news week. We had a subscription years ago. Got too “left” and just crappy to read.

Jul 20, 2009 - 11:35 am 68. Timmy:

“The end of literature and art.” And don’t forget music.

“The wholesale rewriting of history” The most disgusting example for those of this generation will be the presentation of 9/11 as a wonderful day of miracles. No doubt it will be made some sort of holiday.

Jul 20, 2009 - 12:07 pm 69. Eric R.:

Carol,

No doubt I’m far from the first to tell you this, but Newsweek became a Communist propaganda rag years ago.

It is marginal in the USA, and few outside of doctor’s offices read it anymore.

It will likely cease publication within the next year.

Jul 20, 2009 - 1:38 pm 70. Ruvy:

Ladies and gentlemen, you will not like what I have to say. No, I’m not going to defend “Moslem” terrorists and gang-rapists who plague British and other European societies. They are scum – there is no doubt about it.

But a nasty vengeance is being served upon the English for the greed of their corporate leaders – and this vengeance will wreak havoc in the States as well. 9/11 was just an itty bitty dose of justice being served.

You need to ask yourselves who ruled Arabia in 1920? Then, you need to ask yourselves who ruled Arabia in 1930? The answers provide the critical clue to understanding the problem the west faces with what is called radical “Islam”.

In 1920, Arabia was divided into Hijaz in the west, ruled by the Hashemi family – whose descendants rule in Jordan today. The east, Nejd, was divided among many tribes, and one tribe prominent among them was the Saudi tribe, the clan of the children of ibn-Saud. The Hashemis are descendants of Mohammed, and were the guardians of the holy cities of Islam, Makka and Medina.

In 1930, the Hashemis had been driven from Makka and Medina by the Saudi tribe, the clan of ibn Saud – and the peninsula had been renamed Saudi Arabia.

Why is this important?

The Saudis were fervent followers of an 18th Century writer known as el-Wahhab – and they and other followers of el-Wahhab were known as the Wahhabi, and for two hundred years had attempted to overthrow the Khalif and impose their own ideas – and had failed. According to the Sunni, these ideas are heresy. But after the fall of the last Khalif in 1924, British and American bankers gave a lot of gold to the chief of the Saudi clan, so that they could conquer the Arab peninsula, in return for the right to the oil found there.

The ibn Sauds did conquer the peninsula, drive out the Hashemi family from Makka and Medina and the heretical Wahhabi sect became the new voice of “Islam”. It is analogous to what would have happened if Martin Luther or John Calvin had kicked out the pope and ruled from Rome.

The Sunni Moslems will respect “people of the book” – Christians and Jews (sort of, anyway). The Wahhabis believe that either you convert – or die.

The Wahhabi first infiltrated the Moslem Brotherhood of Egypt, then the Deobandi Moslems in India, and from there, you see the ‘radical’ “Islam” that is so proud of beheading journalists and little girls.

All financed by British and American bankers. What comes around goes around.

Jul 20, 2009 - 2:16 pm 71. Timmy:

Ruvy,

That is all well and good but the analysis still misses the bigger point that Islam has been a problem since the very beginning in the 7th century. The damage and destruction they wreaked over the centuries makes 9/11 pale in comparison. The entire development of the world has been changed for the worse by the presence of Islam. That our need for oil has merely enriched them and allowed them to continue their jihad is just the latest skirmish in a 1400 year war, it isn’t the beginning of anything. The more Westerners get all tied up in knots trying to figure out which side of Islam is this or that, or what the West did to “cause” this or that, it all misses the point. The sooner the West faces the reality that Islam represents a permanent enemy and that it cannot be lulled into a false sense of security by the “nice” Muslims, or the ones who only want to destroy the West “later”, the better off we will be. If we need their oil we need to just take it, let them try to stop us. This is a matter of life and death for our entire civilization. Let them be the ones who suffer, let them rot. And we should antagonize the various sides to keep the Muslims fighting among themselves, that is better than them joining together to fight us. We can’t just sit back and wait for them to destroy us as some sort of divine punishment for our business or money men digging oil out of the ground in Saudi Arabia and then actually paying them for it.

Jul 20, 2009 - 3:08 pm 72. sallie:

The history of Islam seems to be “believe as I do or die”…

I am flatly afraid of Muslims. And it’s “not in my backyard” for me and mine. A little narrow minded I suppose, but it’s how we feel from the things we see and hear everyday.

They’re an unhappy people. And they actually believe a god would want you to kill people< that he created< as a hobby?

I think we could handle things in the middle east a bit more "covertly"..

Jul 20, 2009 - 3:50 pm 73. Ruvy:

Timmy,

I apologize for not being thoroughly clear. For us in Israel, the problem is relatively simple. We need to rid ourselves of the traitors who kow-tow to western imperialists and to Arabs, and to nuke Riyadh and Tehran.

End of story – our existential threats cease because suddenly the Persians are out of the power game, the Syrians have no backers in the east, and see that the evil Jew is willing to nuke them to Kingdom Come, if that is what it takes. HizbAllah is the lapdog of the Persians. Eliminate the Persians, and they have no lap. The Moslem, seeing major cities turned to nuclear glass, get the idea that the Jew is no coward hiding behind a rock as their imams tell them. It’s a whole new world for them, one filled with fear of the Jew.

For you, it is necessary to rid yourselves of the power of the Rockefellers, Harrimans, Morgans, Bushes, etc. – the ones who created this Wahhabi monster – and then you must deal with the spoor of the Wahhabi in America and in Europe, the madrassas preaching hate and murder, and the “respectable” folk like CAIR. The Europeans have to re-learn something they seem to have forgotten in their nanny states – having and raising children.

Jul 20, 2009 - 3:59 pm 74. Timmy:

Ruvy,

I did not realize you are in Israel. Clearly there must be a different strategy for dealing with Islam there. I believe Europe and America could still pursue a policy of Separationism, excluding Islam here and trying to contain it in the Middle East. Your geographic location does not allow such a strategy. I do believe however that all non-Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, Atheists even, should join together and forcefully set back Islam. Muslims should be evicted from the Temple Mount and other areas of Israel. Let them have Jordan. We are obviously a long way from that point but if America acts first, then Europe, then Israel, we might eventually have a few safe-havens from Islam. Coexisting with Islam just does not work.

Jul 20, 2009 - 4:15 pm 75. traeh:

I read the Newsweek article. It’s too light-hearted about the risk that its comforting thesis is mistaken. The article doesn’t deal with the question of the self-segregation of Muslims into separate neighborhoods in France, and the sharia ethos that often rules those neighborhoods. It doesn’t say a word about Bruce Bawer’s book (While Europe Slept), in which Bawer recounts numerous direct experiences of his of how the culture of Europe has become less liberal and less open to free speech as Europe seeks to appease the Muslims in its midst. It doesn’t consider the very poor human rights records of virtually all Muslim-majority nations. Even Indonesia, often held up as an example of how Islam is compatible with democracy, is not up to Western human rights standards, and sharia is in process of implementation in portions of Indonesia. Given Islam’s terrible human rights record, shouldn’t a responsible Newsweek more seriously consider the dangers of a Muslim-majority Europe?

I suspect the Newsweek article is more a symptom of creeping dhimmitude and multicultural relativism than an objective report. Newsweek wouldn’t dare to publish an article critical of the Islamic ethos, or expressing grave concern about the future of liberal Europe. That means that anyone with a cogent argument to make about such concerns has been excluded from the Newsweek debate in advance. The fear of PC-ness and of Muslims — their economic, political, and brute force power — has affected Newsweek. I don’t say the writer of the Newsweek article is afraid. But he was chosen because Newsweek’s editorial board is afraid. Like so many others today who self-censor in order not to be called “racists” (though Islam is not a race), in order not to be called hate-mongers, in order not to receive death threats or threats of lawsuits from Muslims, etc., so Newsweek is playing it safe…

Jul 20, 2009 - 4:35 pm 76. Timmy:

“I am flatly afraid of Muslims.” Clearly not all Muslims are a threat as just like someone of any religion they might not closely follow all the dictates, but I agree that Islam should be feared, in fact, I would go so far as to say that any non-Muslim who does not fear Islam should be certified with an as yet unnamed mental disorder. They are no different than someone who walks into a lion cage at the zoo oblivious to the danger thinking they can just go over pet the pretty animal. Perhaps the internet will slowly allow more people in those countries not yet conquered by Islam to learn the truth and wake up and acknowledge the reality and have enough sense not to ignore the real fear they should have and stop the destruction of their civilization by stopping the spread of Islam.

Jul 20, 2009 - 4:44 pm 77. ER White:

Folks…it’s going to get a lot worse before it gets better: My thoughts

http://www.bloggybayou.com/2009/07/hows-that-outreach-to-islamic-nations.html

Also, at the end of the post, a real “thinking-outside-the-box” way to stop Iran… Tell your Congressman and Senator to give it a shot!

Jul 20, 2009 - 6:52 pm 78. Ruvy:

Timmy,

Thank you for your kind words of support for my country.

One thing you learn, when living in this country, is “know your enemy”. This is very important. Also very important, is to respect your enemy, and to see where opportunities to convert enemies to friends exist.

Islam is not monolithic. Further, any attempt to contain Islam within the Middle East will leave most Moslems laughing at you. Only one sixth of Moslems are Arabs. The largest Moslem nation on the planet is Indonesia. The second largest is India. The third is Bangladesh, followed by Pakistan. The Wahhabi influence is strongest in the Arab world, Pakistan and growing there, Bangladesh. In addition, the Deobandi school of Islam has developed a northern offshoot, known as the Taliban. I’m sure that you will recall the Pakistani attack on Mumbai last November. A squadron of less than 20 people brought a city of 20 million souls to a halt. It is the influence of the Taliban (convert or die) that brought this squad to attack Mumbai, and that caused them to target Jews in Mumbai, particularly, the Haba”d House there.

Imdians, Hindus and Moslems both, traditionally got along with Indian Jews. Indian Jews did not try to proselytize Hindus, and because our dietary laws were more or less copied by Islam, Moslems and Jews got along, and could eat meals together. A synagogues in India was known as a masjid,/i> – a mosque – and Moslems would take care of them during the Jewish Sabbath.

The Wahhabi have changed all of this, and because they control Makka and Medina, everyone thinks that their murderous ideology is Islam. Of course, Indians, who are not monothesistic, had to endure terrible persection from the Moslems who conquered the country until the Moslems figured out that there were just too many Hindus ot murder off, and they granted Hindus dhimmi status as well.

All this is not to apologize for the Moslems. All this is to enlighten you to see that the world is not quite the place you’ve imagined it to be. And please, do not feel bad, like I’m looking down my nose telling you this. Imagine how I felt when I learned that Ghaddafi of Libya is Jewish by Jewish law (his mother is [or if she passed away, was] Jewish and there are a whole bunch of Ghaddafis living in Israel), or that the former Oil Minister of the Saudi Thugdom has Jewish blood (the reason why he was forced out of office) – or that the Pashtun, many of whom belong to the Taliban, are descended from the Hebrew tribes who the Assyrians exiled from this country 2,800 years ago!

Jul 21, 2009 - 3:04 am 79. Timmy:

“Islam is not monolithic.” The problem is the doctrines of Islam, even if 99% of Muslims disagree with the evil parts of the Islamic doctrines they cannot change those doctrines and it only takes a few eager followers carefully following those doctrines to wreak havoc anywhere and everywhere. Muslims are the first victims of Islam.

“Further, any attempt to contain Islam within the Middle East will leave most Moslems laughing at you. Only one sixth of Moslems are Arabs. The largest Moslem nation on the planet is Indonesia. The second largest is India. The third is Bangladesh, followed by Pakistan.” Whatever the territory the bottom line is that Islam must be contained, it must not be allowed to destroy any more countries or civilizations. I would add Australia to the list I previously gave. Clearly there are other countries that should be free of Islam. Those countries that have already fallen to Islam cannot be saved, at least not at this time. It will take centuries for those enslaved under Islam to figure out some way to free themselves. Since they can’t change Islam, it is set in stone, they will in the end have to reject it, and that will be difficult for all the reasons people who have studied this problem understand, the death penalty for apostasy being a big one. So if they want to laugh, let them laugh in some contained area and not in free Western countries.

You are too funny bringing up the non-Arab “history” of various Muslim individuals or countries. The problem is that Islam is an Arab supremacist cult and those who embrace it, or are forced into it, end up rejecting their own history. Surely you appreciate this particularly evil aspect of Islam.

Jul 21, 2009 - 5:25 am 80. Lean:

Why don’t you brits have the balls to stop the muslims from taking advantage of your free speech by spreading hate on your streets against YOU. They are determined to take over your country. Act before they become the majority and get elected to govern. Stop muslims from mass immigraton to Europe, they are making plenty more baby muslims then you Europeans, soon the demographic will change in their favor. So it will really become Eurostan. It’s about the survivor of the WEST as we know it.

Jul 21, 2009 - 1:03 pm 81. RRWest:

European powers fought Islam for centuries on many fronts. Now we allow Islam to penetrate the west under the mis-guided notion that it is a religion and not a total control system bent on conquest.

Our European ancestors saw this, why do we remain blind to it?

I suspect that the past 60 years of “multicultural” policies, revised immigration laws and freedom of religion laws are largely to blame. Oh, plus the fact that most of the world’s oil happens to be under Muslim control.

Muslims the world over regularly cross lines that these policies and laws were meant to keep intact in order to continue their barbaric practices like female genital mutilation, rampant anti-Semitism and “honor killings”. It happens in Europe, it happens in the USA, it happens everywhere that Islam has settled.

Support the troops in Afghanistan and people like Geert Wilders’ Freedom Party in the Netherlands. They are fighting back in a centuries-long war in which 9/11 and all that has happened since then are merely blips.

May the west and freedom prevail.
Kafir and proud.

Jul 22, 2009 - 1:36 pm 82. Timmy:

Regarding the need to separate Islam from the West. There is no need for this to create undue hurt feelings. It needs to be presented as just a matter of fact situation. It can be explained that because we respect Islam, we respect that it has the power to destroy our civilization. Just as you would not put a lion in the same cage as a lamb, Islam needs to have it’s own place and Western civilization it’s own. This will also prevent the uncomfortable situation wherein Muslims are “persecuted” or arrested for actions taken in the West which though they are actions that would destroy the West they are really only practicing their religion.

This plan by the way is also what is best for Muslims as any Muslim who might want to leave Islam will only have a safe place to go so long as there remain a few countries in the world that are not subjugated by Islam. Once every country has a significant Muslim presence there will be no escaping it.

Jul 22, 2009 - 1:36 pm 83. Brian:

HAHA!Newsweek must be smokin something.The eyes of the internet say otherwise you MSM dolts!Time to entrench Western values here in North America against radical Islam.Furthermore this canuck wants us to now stay in Afghanistan.No retreat.There is nowhere to retreat to now.

Jul 22, 2009 - 9:31 pm 84. deguello:

UNDERHILL”S NAME SHOULD BE CHANGED TO UNDERBRAINED!

Jul 24, 2009 - 9:54 am 85. JOHN:

STOP ISLAMIC INVASION INTO EUROPE NOW!!!

Aug 26, 2009 - 8:29 pm

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