Comments on: No Awakening in the Cards For Pakistan http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/no-awakening-in-the-cards-for-pakistan/ Thu, 26 Nov 2009 03:25:23 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Don Vandervelde http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/no-awakening-in-the-cards-for-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-132167 Don Vandervelde Tue, 21 Oct 2008 04:05:15 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=35807#comment-132167 The "tribes" will happily join whoever is winning at the time, then turn on them later to keep their independence from the Paks. It's their tradition. The tribal areas are not actually a part of Pakistan. the whole of Afghanistan, itself, was taken from the terrorists in a matter of months by a few special ops troops calling down unlimited quantites of bombs with exquisite precision, with the help of the Northern Alliance and many local chiefs. This doctrine should be used to pacify the tribal areas, with the cooperation of the Afghans and possibly the Indians, if not the Paks. Then extended negotiations can proceed by all parties to make the tribal areas truly sovereign Pak territory. The “tribes” will happily join whoever is winning at the time, then turn on them later to keep their independence from the Paks. It’s their tradition. The tribal areas are not actually a part of Pakistan. the whole of Afghanistan, itself, was taken from the terrorists in a matter of months by a few special ops troops calling down unlimited quantites of bombs with exquisite precision, with the help of the Northern Alliance and many local chiefs. This doctrine should be used to pacify the tribal areas, with the cooperation of the Afghans and possibly the Indians, if not the Paks. Then extended negotiations can proceed by all parties to make the tribal areas truly sovereign Pak territory.

]]> By: JFM http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/no-awakening-in-the-cards-for-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-126946 JFM Thu, 16 Oct 2008 18:58:12 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=35807#comment-126946 The fundamental problem is that Pakistan has a keen interest in fundamentalism. Without it, without its population being rabidly militant Muslims it would quickly fall apart. Pakistan is 1) An hetrogenous state whose components have little love lost for one another. 2) A thugocracy, where a mostly punjabi elite, lives in style by exploiting the other region. And how they get away with it? You guessed it, by radicalizing their population so the Islam cement is stronger than Pakistan's naturally centrifugal forces. By inventing plots of Pakistan conquest by teh infidels so the Baloch or Sindhs don't pay attention where the money is going. 3) Pakistan's claim to teh NWFP is tenuous at best. Not only practically but legally: their cession to the British Empire was temporary and the treaty has expired. Also their inhabitants are emparented with Afghans and feel themseleves superior to Punjabis. If Afghanistan were a half successful state they would ask the NWFP joining Afgahnistan again. By keeping Afghanistan in misery Pakistan prevents secession from its Pashtoon populations. 4) Pakistan dreams of conquering India. That requires not only the manpower and resources of the NWFP but also greater strategic depth: in other words either conquering Afganistan (hard), installing a puppet government in it or one who is so obsessed with Islam that in a conflict with India will put its army, resources and territory at Pakistan's service. That is why ISI supported the Taliban and, inside the Taliban those who were completely indifferent to national questions and saw Afghanistan merely as a province of a (future) global califat. The fundamental problem is that Pakistan has a keen interest in fundamentalism. Without it, without its population being rabidly militant Muslims it would quickly fall apart.

Pakistan is
1) An hetrogenous state whose components have little love lost for one another.

2) A thugocracy, where a mostly punjabi elite, lives in style by exploiting the other region.

And how they get away with it? You guessed it, by radicalizing their population so the Islam cement is stronger than Pakistan’s naturally centrifugal forces. By inventing plots of Pakistan conquest by teh infidels so the Baloch or Sindhs don’t pay attention where the money is going.

3) Pakistan’s claim to teh NWFP is tenuous at best. Not only practically but legally: their cession to the British Empire was temporary and the treaty has expired. Also their inhabitants are emparented with Afghans and feel themseleves superior to Punjabis. If Afghanistan were a half successful state they would ask the NWFP joining Afgahnistan again. By keeping Afghanistan in misery Pakistan prevents secession from its Pashtoon populations.

4) Pakistan dreams of conquering India. That requires not only the manpower and resources of the NWFP but also greater strategic depth: in other words either conquering Afganistan (hard), installing a puppet government in it or one who is so obsessed with Islam that in a conflict with India will put its army, resources and territory at Pakistan’s service. That is why ISI supported the Taliban and, inside the Taliban those who were completely indifferent to national questions and saw Afghanistan merely as a province of a (future) global califat.

]]> By: Ex-fetus http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/no-awakening-in-the-cards-for-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-126241 Ex-fetus Wed, 15 Oct 2008 22:55:57 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=35807#comment-126241 It's too early. The Iraqi "awakening" worked because the tribes were tired of AQ bleeding them out. In Pakistan, the tribes haven't bled enough yet. I expect the Terrs to get the government before the government gets them. The current Paki Bozo-in-chief hasn't a clue. No idea where to even look for one. It’s too early. The Iraqi “awakening” worked because the tribes were tired of AQ bleeding them out. In Pakistan, the tribes haven’t bled enough yet. I expect the Terrs to get the government before the government gets them.
The current Paki Bozo-in-chief hasn’t a clue. No idea where to even look for one.

]]> By: Patterico’s Pontifications » The Start of a Tribal Area Awakening? (Updated) http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/no-awakening-in-the-cards-for-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-126105 Patterico’s Pontifications » The Start of a Tribal Area Awakening? (Updated) Wed, 15 Oct 2008 18:50:40 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=35807#comment-126105 [...] Bill Roggio thinks it won’t work because the lashkars don’t have sufficient back-up from the [...] [...] Bill Roggio thinks it won’t work because the lashkars don’t have sufficient back-up from the [...]

]]> By: ecrab http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/no-awakening-in-the-cards-for-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-125926 ecrab Wed, 15 Oct 2008 15:18:35 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=35807#comment-125926 In my humble opinion, the tribes have very little to gain from their association with the Pakistani military. With their cooperation, comes meddling in their local affairs along with decreased power. In a way it reminds me of our local governments use of annexation with delayed increase in services. I think a better way and one that may not be possible, is to look at the way the Roman's gained influence in their conquered lands. As they came into an area, a high priority was to improve the roads. This, of course, enabled quicker reaction for their forces but also allowed easier access for trade and commerce. Unless the Pakistani government is determined to open those local areas and keep them open the Taliban problem will only fester like a boil in their side. In my humble opinion, the tribes have very little to gain from their association with the Pakistani military. With their cooperation, comes meddling in their local affairs along with decreased power. In a way it reminds me of our local governments use of annexation with delayed increase in services. I think a better way and one that may not be possible, is to look at the way the Roman’s gained influence in their conquered lands. As they came into an area, a high priority was to improve the roads. This, of course, enabled quicker reaction for their forces but also allowed easier access for trade and commerce. Unless the Pakistani government is determined to open those local areas and keep them open the Taliban problem will only fester like a boil in their side.

]]> By: No Awakening in the Cards For Pakistan | PoliticsMuch.com http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/no-awakening-in-the-cards-for-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-125821 No Awakening in the Cards For Pakistan | PoliticsMuch.com Wed, 15 Oct 2008 13:27:41 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=35807#comment-125821 [...] orginally posted at PajamasMedia.com. We claim no responsibility for this content. Please click on the link above to read and comment on [...] [...] orginally posted at PajamasMedia.com. We claim no responsibility for this content. Please click on the link above to read and comment on [...]

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