No Father? No Chance
The dangerous results of America's PC celebration of single motherhood are statistically clear.
In Harrisburg, the capital city of Pennsylvania, crime has become such a problem that Stanley Lawson of the NAACP has asked Governor Ed Rendell to call in the National Guard to restore order.
During the month of June, twelve young people were gunned down. Many in broad daylight.
Mr. Lawson said: “We’re beyond what the Harrisburg police department can do. We need help.” Another NAACP member, Stanley Mitchell, in declaring the need to suspend some civil rights, added: “We have the civil right not to be shot.”
It’s easy to attack their willingness to demand martial law with a mandatory curfew, or to quote Benjamin Franklin’s warning that those who trade essential liberty for security will have neither liberty nor security. But that misses the point. The reaction of the Harrisburg NAACP is the same reaction that will come from anyone forced to live in a war zone.
Yet Mr. Johnson blames the actions of young gang warriors on fear. It would be more apt to say that the problem is fatherlessness.
The statistics are not pretty. Of teen runaways, 90 percent come from fatherless homes. So do 85 percent of all youth currently sitting in prison and 70 percent of long-term prison inmates. The negative statistics continue seemingly without end regarding the social (63 percent of youth suicides are from fatherless homes), economic (75 percent of children in single parent homes experience poverty), and educational (71 percent of high school dropouts are from single parent homes) impacts of homes without fathers — and how the problem has become pandemic among the African American community.
I had to tip my hat to President Obama on Father’s Day for taking special care to remind fathers of their responsibility. The genuine tragedy of the president’s life is his missing father, whose acceptance and love Obama could never earn, no matter how much he achieved.
This respect for the president’s stand on fatherhood must be tempered somewhat. President Obama is trying a soft sell on fatherhood. He dare not follow in the steps of politicians like former Vice President Dan Quayle, who was viciously savaged for challenging the media’s glorification of single motherhood. Nor will the president’s toothless support for fatherhood lead him to frontally challenge the cultural prevailing winds that are leading more and more fathers out of their children’s lives.
Quayle’s attack on Murphy Brown’s positive portrayal of single motherhood was mocked. Indeed, it’s a common argument that television cannot be blamed for society’s ills. Individuals are responsible for their own actions, but to suggest that television plays no role in shaping behavior is silly.
Let’s take the following suggestion: “The Cosby Show helped us to recognize the existence of black middle class families and helped American whites see our similarities and not just our differences. Indeed, the Huxtables opened the door to the Obamas.” Few would argue back: “Television has no impact on our understanding of other people or the issues. It has no impact on our thinking about anything whatsoever.” To allow for the positive impact of television, while not admitting where it is harmful, is a contradiction.
Since Murphy Brown, the positive portrayal of single motherhood on television has skyrocketed. Most of these women are unlike any real single mothers I’ve known. In real life, I see the harried woman, exhausted trying to hold down a full-time job while trying to do the job of two parents at home. She is constantly on the verge of being fired due to attendance issues while trying to get her child to day care or babysitters and dealing with cancellations.
But I’ve not seen this woman on television.
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Adam Graham is a contributor at Race42012.com and host of the Truth and Hope Report podcast. His personal site is Adam's Blog.
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152 Comments
1. Strawman:That had a political purpose. That was what the feminists wanted to hear. It’s all the ‘deadbeat dad’s’ fault. As if all of these ‘missing’ dads have the opportunity to play a role in their kids’ lives.
Jul 3, 2009 - 8:57 am 2. Strawman:Or worse, father-hungry children will join Al Qaeda or some other ideo-religious group out of a search for a sense of belonging. Why do kids join street gangs?
Jul 3, 2009 - 9:01 am 3. Rosita:Oh, please. This is why people don’t identify with the Republican “you must be a straight person whose sexual activity has been confined to your high school sweetheart- commencing on your wedding night” family values vibe.
Yeah, the problem isn’t the impending totalitarian regime with its cap and trade, Americorps, healthcare reform, wealth distribution, repression of dissent. The problem’s basis is Gloria Steinem declaring that a woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle. That’s the real problem.
I have no more time to waste on this comment. While you praise bisexual crackie community organizer Obama for his PR moment, Rome is burning.
Number one, the populations you’re singling out for criticism are African-American.
Number two, I don’t like to use anecdotes in arguments, but I am a single mother, and because I don’t have a husband I have more time to lavish on my child. I know that I read to my child and spend more time on her development more than the other mothers I know.
So, thanks for bashing the single mothers, Adam Graham. Pharisee.
Jul 3, 2009 - 11:21 am 4. Chuck Pelto:TO: All
RE: HEY!
The ‘racist card’ has been played!
Guess who the REAL ‘racist’ is. Three guesses. First two don’t count….
RE: More Evidence….
….that the premise of this article is correct.
Does anyone else here sense that Rosita is a rather ‘angry’ personality? She certainly seems that way to me. And WHY is that?
Sounds like a great environment to raise children. Don’t you think? And I wonder how those children will interact in the world.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[You know you were a good parent, if your grand-children turn out okay.]
P.S. But by then it’s too late to do anything about it……
Jul 12, 2009 - 2:43 am 5. Chuck Pelto:TO: All
RE: Errata
Drat it….
….that first citation from Rosita should have been….
And by the way, I doubt if Adam is “singling out” Blacks. Rather, it seems to me that Rosita recognizes there seems to be a preponderance of this problem in that segment of the population.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Jul 12, 2009 - 2:46 am 6. chantal:[When all the other possibilities have been eliminated, what remains—however improbable or unpleasant—MUST be the truth.]
“In real life, I see the harried woman, exhausted trying to hold down a full-time job while trying to do the job of two parents at home. She is constantly on the verge of being fired due to attendance issues while trying to get her child to day care or babysitters and dealing with cancellations.
But I’ve not seen this woman on television.”
Yeah, well in real life I read about fathers murdering their wives and children and then chickening out by committing suicide, killing their son on Father’s Day by slamming his head against a wall, and throwing defenceless toddlers off a bridge to their death, etc. etc.
But I’ve not seen these fathers on television.
And a lot of the 97% of crimes committed by males in the US every year are are committed by FATHERS, not single mothers. This is the example they set to their SONS! Many of the absent fathers are absent because they are in PRISON!
Fatherlessness is a wilful abdication of responsibility for wives and children for whatever reason the man chooses. It has been around for centuries and centuries long before feminism came along. It is not the result of feminist propaganda or any woman holding a gun to any man’s head, and it is sheer cowardice to pretend otherwise.
Jul 12, 2009 - 3:47 am 7. Jane:Rosita – no one is bashing you. It is a problem, Look at the numbers. My niece is a single mother with an out of wedlock child. It has been a struggle, My great niece was fine as a small child , but years of having to deal with her mom’s boyfriends and other social issues while her mother worked and went to college are taking a toll. She is a teenager now and descending into a world of cool kids and smoking and I fear for her. We did our best, with vacations and money gifts, but we couldn’t give her what she really needed. Keep reading to your child Rosita, I say hurrah for you! Buck the numbers. But the percentages are percentages because there are children who do not fall into the black side of the ledger. 70% means 30% are people like you – but do not bash those who are concerned for the 70% and write to bring attention to the problem.
Jul 12, 2009 - 4:34 am 8. kmg:For my two cents worth, I would say that anyone would know that in most cases a father in the home is better than not having a father in the home. The author recognizes that there are exceptions to this. Facts are facts no matter how you spin them, and blacks have a high percentage of fatherless children. The rates are increasing for whites as well, but it isn’t as wide-spread…yet.
Jul 12, 2009 - 4:41 am 9. Rick554:I was lucky enough to raise my sons alone while their mother went off and “found” herself. They are now successful, taxpaying citizens, one a US ARMY SSGT and the other owns his own business. I can unequivically state that Dan Quayle was Right!
Jul 12, 2009 - 4:42 am 10. David Thomson:Raising kids is serious business, one that unserious entities like the MSM and NOW arent qualified to undertake. Their loss to be sure.
At least my kids ( and Grandsons) call everyday and make sure the old man is ok and happily they still involve me in their life.
The media can keep their “role models”, I’ll keep my Sons!
“And by the way, I doubt if Adam is “singling out” Blacks.”
Race has nothing to do with it. Charles Murray and others have pointed out consistently that permanent underclass behavior transcends racial and ethnic categories. White children have also been severely damaged in fatherless homes. Blacks have especially been hurt in the last four decades because they were often encouraged to be promiscuous and violent. This is the way they were to prove their “authenticity.”
Jul 12, 2009 - 5:12 am 11. fear obama:lol..
Bisexual-
Ive never seen OBAMA staring at another mans tush or crotch.
You sound like someone pissed because the price of their food stamp purchased cigarettes have tripled in price.
….. Need a smoke?
You sure you are not a red neck government assisted living foster parent?
Anyway…..
I will now be giggling all day.
Jul 12, 2009 - 5:15 am 12. Blackwater:Well this is what happens when you let the leftists play around with social engineering in the local, state and federal government through welfare programs. And the morality of our society is screwed up as well. Getting divorced is now like breaking up with a girlfriend. Hollywood, MTV and popular internet sites with young people tell young men that their #1 priority in life should be to have one night stands with as many girls as possible. We need more morality and less government in our culture. The only way to do that is for conservatives to take over the entertainment industry and government. Good luck with that. I can’t think of a single conservative movie director, music group or comedian off the top of my head.
Jul 12, 2009 - 5:23 am 13. Blackwater:Oh and not to mention the demonization of males by leftist feminists. There seems to be this sexist anti-male pro-lesbian movement going on in the Western world where males are protrayed as useless.
Jul 12, 2009 - 5:31 am 14. Glass:The Steinem bull bitch single super Mom glorified by Murphy Brown and the liberal media are largely at fault for the problems of the single Mom and Dad of today. In reality how many single Mom’s have the ability to give their children a rounded secure upbringing when just surviving day to day is monumental challenge. I look at my own daughter and grandchildren and know that from a financial standpoint alone they would have been destined to a life of misery, poverty and despair without our help and support. Being a single Mom or Dad is hell, not the glorified crap on TV or as portrayed by the media. Women have made great strides over the past 50 years but single parent hood is not one of them.
Jul 12, 2009 - 5:32 am 15. davimcg:Rosita, Your thin-skinned, willful ignorance is sad. Rome is burning but not just from one fire.
Jul 12, 2009 - 5:51 am 16. Lynn:Another thought; The fact that young people are learning that it is not necessarily financially advantageous to join together in marriage when they have a child. They learn that the government expects responsibility to follow marriage and often the WIC program and others stop. Some will live together but NOT marry, so the woman and child can still receive welfare and free medical care. It becomes a perpetual cycle and their is no shame to it or embarrassment.
There are also many bitter young woman who become angry at the selfish father and feel it is also their right to behave self indulgently and either abandon the children to the streets or dump them at the grandparents while they have ‘fun’.
I don’t think as a society we have done a very good job of instilling responsibility for sexual behavior to the male, by expecting half the world (females) to shoulder the consequences. With true freedom this cannot stand and we are seeing the results. Perhaps there will be a balance one day, but for now it seems chaotic and little children are suffering from the inability of young people to see that both the man and woman taking the responsibility for the little children they bring in the world will be a ‘good’ thing for them both.
I also think that our good intentions of wiping away the stigma of government assistance for those in need has caused some of what we are seeing. At one time it was an embarrassment to be “on the dole” and families couldn’t work to get ‘off’ of it fast enough. Now it has become a normal part of life, and in fact young people are passing along the ‘tricks of the trade’ to other young people so that they can take advantage of the government’s social programs for as long as possible.
I am not sure what the answer is but there is no doubt in my mind that for the well being of a child the best scenario for them is a loving mother and father in their lives along with a lasting marriage. It’s the rock that children cling to when life is turbulent and uncertain. It’s a good road sign for them to find their way when they are not sure what direction to go.
Jul 12, 2009 - 5:58 am 17. TennesseeVolunteer:As imperfect as it is, it’s the best be humans can attain and pass on.
Did you know that the #1 indicator of a high ACT or SAT score is a two parent family? Not race, or income. I was in college recruiting a while back and while doing research on the probablility of success for students based on their test scores, I found that tidbit of info.
Jul 12, 2009 - 6:04 am 18. Mo:@ Rosita:
There is no bashing going on here. It is a statistical fact that children from single parent homes do poorly in all areas of life. As was stated in the article, citing a few positive exceptions does not erase the general rule.
Jul 12, 2009 - 6:05 am 19. Locomotive Breath:Yeah, well in real life I read about fathers murdering their wives and children and then chickening out by committing suicide, killing their son on Father’s Day by slamming his head against a wall, and throwing defenceless toddlers off a bridge to their death, etc. etc.
But I’ve not seen these fathers on television.
Jul 12, 2009 - 6:05 am 20. Jeff:——–
You’ve obviously missed out on Oxygen and the Lifetime Movie Network which are one man-bashing show after another.
How about two fathers? Or two mothers? Get ready for an an array of gay marriage programs.
No stats on that.
Jul 12, 2009 - 6:20 am 21. Richard:You jump straight from this assertion to quoting a bunch of statistics instead of providing evidence that the problem in Harrisburg is indeed caused by fatherlessness. You need to improve your argument if you are going to convince those who disagree with you of your point. You’re mostly preaching to the choir on this site, but that doesn’t make your arguments hold water just because people here are willing to agree with your conclusion without considering the mean by which you reach that conclusion.
Jul 12, 2009 - 6:30 am 22. A. Nonymous:Rosita, not all troubled children (or prison inmates)are African-American. Those who think otherwise are the real racists. As Ben Franklin put it, tell me my faults and mend thine own.
Jul 12, 2009 - 7:11 am 23. Jack:As a single man with no kids, I hated the fact that I would be requested to do double shifts when women with kids called in ’sick’, or more honestly, called in because of a sick child or a child in trouble with school authorities.
Single women with kids cause havoc in the work place for their co-workers when they can’t do their shift and some one else has to cover for them.
Jul 12, 2009 - 7:16 am 24. Fafnir:Couldn’t happen to an uglier nation than the USA has become. The blacks are taking over white western society and looky there what a wonderful paradise they bring. I am astonished at the black community’s acceptance of abortion on demand as they destroy themselves before birth. Most single mothers are blacks. Most problem kids are black. and blacks are only 13% of our population, yet are allowed to destroy our white social fabric. Just look at what blackness has brought to the white house and Washington dc. The sooner this government and country are destroyed the better for the planet. Human beings suck.
Jul 12, 2009 - 7:28 am 25. Chuck Pelto:TO: chantal
RE: Well….
While there are certainly evil people on both sides of the gender line….
…you’re missing the primary point. And for whatever reason—which I suspect is YOUR gender—the facts of the article remain standing. Despite your obfuscation.
What facts are those? The one enumerated in the article about how children from a single parent household are more likely to be a ban on society than a boon.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. Please explain to US how Mrs. Winkler manages to murder her husband in his sleep, with a shotgun blast to his back….
….and all she gets is a few months in a mental-health spa as ‘punishment’…..
Go on….I dare you…..
Jul 12, 2009 - 8:03 am 26. daveinga:the beginning of this nightmare began when judges decided that during a divorce all the children automatically belonged to the woman, and the man was there primarily to pick up the tab. this flies in the face of “Equality Under the Law”, a critical premise for all law in the u.s. from there it morphed into a system of financial rewards for women, law enforcement, judiciary, prisons, you name it. many women quickly realized the gov’t (uncle sugar) was a better more reliable and far wealthier provider, so eventually in many cases men became redundant. uncle sugar never lost a job, or wanted to start another family, or made mommy mad, and the politicians/judges/lawyers heard every vote, i mean word of it.
from experience i can tell you that whenever possible, both parents (wed or not) should have equal access, rights and responsibilities where the children are concerned, unless it can be proven that one parent is not capable of performing his/her part in a competent manner. the gov. should steer clear until needed, and be completely impartial when needed. if the law “profession” had kept it’s ethics (impartiality) in the beginning (late 60’s / early 70’s) i dare say we would not be in this situation now.
if you want to see who profits from this present miserable situation, look and see what groups fight at every turn, and contrary to ALL stat’s, against joint custody and equal parenting laws many places have tried to implement.
that would be the same ones who profited from and wanted these privileges in the beginning, and the very ones who have profited financially and “legally” from the demonization of men at every turn.
Jul 12, 2009 - 8:05 am 27. Chuck Pelto:TO: Rick544
RE: Interesting Report
I wonder if anyone has done a compare and contrast study of the success of single-parent MALE raised children vis-a-vis single-parent FEMALE raised children.
I’m certain there’s a doctorate study in there SOMEWHERE!
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Jul 12, 2009 - 8:06 am 28. Lynn:[The Truth will out....but I suspect feminazis like Rosita and chantal will reject it......]
Jack, way to cause division when a child is, heaven forbid, sick or needs help because they are in trouble (brats!). Post script, poor woman have ALWAYS worked throughout history, it’s just no one gave a shi! what happened to their kids while they earned a pittance. If the company has sick time, it’s none of your damn business what they use it for. If you resented double shifts, you should of gotten off your resentful ass and fought for overtime or sufficient workers to cover NORMAL unexpected events that occur whether one has CHILDREN or not.
Fafnir, way to descend the conversation into the abyss of bigotry.
Selfishness on display for all to see and ponder.
Jul 12, 2009 - 8:08 am 29. Suzy:My blessed father was a miner. He came home to us late in the evening covered with coal dust. God, how we love him. His old rusty Plymouth would pull up in the driveway and all seven of us kids would try to get to him first and carry in his dinged lunch bucket. He would grin and swing us up in his arms and we would get a dusty kiss. Mum was with us all day long baking and roasting and cleaning and doing laundry (we all helped as best we could). When we were overly bad and Mum had just had it with us she would say, “just wait ’til your Father gets home.” Mum was a pushover, but when Dad started to unbuckle his belt we knew we better behave. Of all the cute boys I brought home for approval, I married the one Dad took hunting with him. I just can’t imagine life without a father or husband. Although married life surely knocks the corners off you, I am grateful my husband puts up with me as I put up with him. Our children love and respect and fear their Dad just as I did mine.
Jul 12, 2009 - 8:09 am 30. Delia:As someone who grew up with out a father figure all of her life [and no, my mom's multiple whacko boyfriends and quickie marriages followed by divorces don't count], I can attest to the fact that it sucks to not know what it’s like to have a ‘Daddy’.
Jul 12, 2009 - 8:38 am 31. Xanthippe:I married a guy who was a single dad (wife left when son was not quite 2). A huge part of me knowing he was the right one for me was what a terrific father he is.
His son is now 34 – he’s never quite gotten over being abandoned by his mom; it’s his single largest issue (I don’t know if he’ll ever get over it) but the problems that caused have more to do with trying to please her now.
My husband did a terrific job of parenting, instilling responsibility. But he couldn’t take the place of a mom.
Kids need two parents and a stable home. While they can get along with only one parent, having a stable home is vital. The problem populations discussed here – prisoners, runaways, et al. – did not have stable homes, I wager.
Jul 12, 2009 - 9:03 am 32. Fafnir:Dear Lynn, I AM a bigot. I truly am intolerant of and take offense to the opinions and lifestyles of the left and the left’s attempt to push the religion of hatred on America and on me. Your comments tell me you, too, are a bigot and don’t know what the term means. You use the word bigot to try to hurt me. lol water off a duck’s back.
Jul 12, 2009 - 9:08 am 33. Cindy Sue Causey:Made me think.. There can be no doubt that for some number of those with no father in the picture in situations out of their control, there will be a conscious sense of extreme loss and abandonment that will help shape their Future..
Over the years, some of my disability self-advocacy travels have helped brush these wings up against those of the FRAMED support group since both advocacy interests occasionally, ultimately run into parallel discrimination issues.. FRAMED was originally the acronym for “Fathers’ Rights and Men Ending Discrimination” but they have gradually evolved into “Family Rights And Many Ending Discrimination”.. Humbly offering as a possible resource in case anyone is interested in this particular type of (some longstanding) camaraderie regarding the topic of families without the support of fathers..
Cyber hugs from Talking Rock..
PS.. @fear obama :: Surely you aren’t referencing the recently publicized image that is alleged to be Obama oogling a 16-year-old child, right..?
I’d like to repeat that again as I’ve yet to encounter the incident receiving its due objection since the whole (staged?) shot made its appearance :: The girl photographed and alleged to be being publicly oogled by THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA…….
Is a 16-YEAR-OLD CHILD..
Most interesting, indeed, to see that image, and thus by association the topic, brought up…
On this particular post.
Jul 12, 2009 - 9:15 am 34. Jason S:My mother and father divorced when I was 3, and in that day and age it would have been easy for my father to walk away and start a new life on his own. Today in my mid-30’s my dad is my best friend and not a day goes by when I am not thankful that he and my mother chose joint custody. Although the burden of a child going back and forth between two very different homes could be great at times, having my biological father in my life more than made up for it.
I would argue that mothers have a special bond with their children and they are more capable than ever at providing the basic necessities for their children. That this bond is so special is the reason that we aren’t having this same conversation about single dads. But the stats cited in this article make it abundantly clear that we need our dads. In the end it is up to the individual to take responsibility, which is why the collectivist ideas gripping this country have failed in the past, are failing now, and will always fail. The government has proven that it cannot handle the case-load when we are allowed to slough our responsibilities off onto it. So give us our money back, get the hell out of the way, and let the chips fall where they may. We will be stronger as a collective in the long run.
Just our of curiosity, I would love to see the voting habits of dads that abandon their children. I would bet my net worth right now that the percentage is more than 90% democrat.
Jul 12, 2009 - 9:23 am 35. Saltherring:Blackwater @ 12 & 13: You said several mouthfuls, sir. Particularly the “We need more morality and less government in our culture. ” statement.
Suzy @ 29: Your husband is a fortunate man indeed.
Delia @ 30: You seem to have your head on pretty sraight for someone who grew up in a difficult environment. And it’s never too late to find a wise, kindly, older gentleman to fill the role of father-figure. I know, as he would know, that he can never replace dad, but a good many mature men would be willing to try.
I had tears in my eyes when I hung up the phone from a conversation where my stepdaughter asked me to walk her down the aisle at her wedding. This young lady’s biological father had abandoned the family and she had never known a father’s love while growing up. I told her I would be honored to fill that role. This fall I will again have the privilege to walk a daughter down the aisle, this time the one I chose to father, even after her mother chose to run off with her best friend’s husband. I will be equally proud to be both girls’ father until the day I pass from this earth.
Jul 12, 2009 - 10:12 am 36. john from cinncinatti:single parent moms seem to do ok until the hormones kick in and the boy gets to be to much of a man. dads get to be the hammer that drives the nail straight.
Jul 12, 2009 - 10:57 am 37. Beth:when i was 18 i thought my father was dumb, when i turned 21, i was amazed at how much he learned in 3 years. mark twain?
expectations and reality sometimes diverge in relationships and single parent families are the result.
No point in talking to Rosita.
She done her child a MAJOR wrong in (1) not picking a decent man for a father, and (2) raising that child without a good and loving father.
She doesn’t have the courage or insight to admit how much damage she has done. She will blame everyone except herself.
After all, she is a VICTIM.
The true victim is her child.
Jul 12, 2009 - 10:57 am 38. Paul of Alexandria:Rosita (3)
Obviously you don’t – which is why you are (presumably) a single parent. Let’s put it this way: for the past 10 generations my family has stuck with conventional, hetrosexual, “till death do us part” marriages. We have had very few divorces, very few illegimate births, and no (that I know of) criminals or other social malcontents. Rather boring, actually.
Why can we only have one problem at a time? The Obama problem is a temporal problem that has a certain solution. Fatherlessness is a systemic problem that has other solutions.
And you are the one holding the kerosene and lighter.
Not necessarily, but that is a tremendous problem in that community. Check the history: the problems in the African-American community largly began when (mostly due to wellfare policies) they stopped holding to two-parent families.
Sorry, but bullshit. How are you supporting your child? Who is truly raising the child – you, or the government or your parents? Who is providing the male role model that is essential for both sons and daughters? You are only fooling yourself.
It is not self-righteousness to point out a pitfall into which others may be walking. I would advise you to look at your own life and see where you are falling short.
Jul 12, 2009 - 11:06 am 39. Paul of Alexandria:chantal (6):
Sure you have – they make up most of the horror shows. What do evil fathers (who hardly form a preponderance or even a substantial minority of fathers) have to do with the subject at hand? These men would do these things regardless of their marital status.
Again, so what? No one has accused single-mothers per se of being criminal, just foolish.
I will not disagree with you; however no one is pretending otherwise. Indeed, I will hold that if you look carefully, much of the criminal behavior cited above is due to lack of proper fathering by the fathers of the men involved. One of the most important lessons that I am teaching my own son is how to control his temper, and how to behave in a civilized manner. One of the most important roles of a father is to teach self-control and self-discipline to his sons; a thing that a mother has a hard time doing. (Not impossible, just difficult).
Jul 12, 2009 - 11:17 am 40. Sandra:When someone not-black says something about the crime, it’s racism. When the NAA”L”CP says something about it, then it’s okay?
Jul 12, 2009 - 11:26 am 41. 38952R:“Number two, I don’t like to use anecdotes in arguments, but I am a single mother, and because I don’t have a husband I have more time to lavish on my child. I know that I read to my child and spend more time on her development more than the other mothers I know.”
Because you don’t have a husband, your daughter doesn’t have a first-hand, day-to-day example of how a healthy marriage works. And as for “more time on her development more [sic] than the other mothers I know,” who cares? That doesn’t mean a thing if the other mothers you know are never home or ignore their children or are simply rotten mothers, period.
I have sympathy for couples with children who get divorced due to issues that can’t be worked out (addiction, et cetera), and I appreciate never-married women who try to raise their children the best they can. But let’s not fool ourselves and pretend those kids don’t have something missing from their lives.
Jul 12, 2009 - 11:57 am 42. bill:Fafnir,
You’re not a “bigot”; you’re a troll. You’ll copy your comments here and plaster them on KOS under a different name to show everyone of those dim bulbs that conservatives are haters. You are not worth the micro-watts of electricity it takes to transmit your filth.
Jul 12, 2009 - 11:59 am 43. HonestJon:Here’s a main part of the problem: the demographics of Harrisburg from Wikipedia:
“Demographics
As of the census of 2005… The racial makeup of the city was 31.72% White, 54.83% Black or African American, 0.37% Native American, 2.83% Asian, 0.07% Pacific Islander, 6.54% from other races, and 3.64% from two or more races. 11.69% of the population were Hispanic or Latino of any race”
So there you are! I’m not a racist or bigot or whatever, but the statistics don’t lie. And neither do I! I found in a study that of the ten safest cities in America, not one had a black population of greater than 5%. Conversely, ALL of the top ten most dangerous cities in the US had black populations exceeding 50% (excepting one city which had 30% blacks).
I really don’t blame black men so much for their community-devastating irresponsibility and horrendous crime rates as much as I blame the fact that from the day they’re born until they die, they’re bombarded with extremely bad examples of behavior. Examples include: the debasement of women as “bitches,” “hos,” and objects of sexual conquest and nothing more; the widely accepted black gangsta culture of guns, drugs, murder, sex, and prison; that the only way to gain “street cred” is to drop out of school, deal drugs, beat your hos, and kill your rivals; and finally that any children procreated are the responsibility of the mother or the government. There can be no question that part of that mind set has come from being raised without a strong and authoritarian father figure.
I also blame the women who are lying on their backs and allowing themselves to be taken advantage of while being treated like total crap while using no prophylactic devices. By allowing losers to not only copulate with, but also to impregnate them, they bear at least half of the responsibility. They also bear most of the burden, along with the taxpayers, thereafter.
regards
Jul 12, 2009 - 12:25 pm 44. Joe Bison:The Great Society continues to bear fruit,
but hey we have Obama(D) to continue the
good work. Keep throwing money at it
eventually the problems will vanish.
To #6 you try to obscure the difference
between husband and sperm provider daddy.
Any intelligent woman wouldn’t touch one
of the latter with a ten foot pole yet
single mommy does and then has the audacity
to lecture me on conduct, wisdom and morality.
No you screw up then come to the rest of us
to get bailed out of a predicament largely
of your own making.
To improve the situation in Pennsylvania
Jul 12, 2009 - 12:55 pm 45. David:don’t cling to religion so spake the wise
man. Right on man! Too much morality.
One of the more interesting statistics I’ve seen shows that middle class white kids growing up in a single mother home have a greater chance of ending up in jail than black kids living in poverty but with both biological parents. It should not be surprising that parents are more important than the effects of poverty or supposed racial prejudice, but a lot of legislators don’t want to admit this.
Jul 12, 2009 - 12:59 pm 46. vicsmith:It is not the children of single feminists that are having/causing problems. It’s the children of poor/minority women who don’t seem to really make a choice but let life happen to them. A result of poverty, lack of education and any real choice by most standards. Statistics prove this over and over again. Two parent families are the ideal but to imply single mothers (mostly) raise monsters is absurd and outdated.
Jul 12, 2009 - 1:06 pm 47. blotto:“Hundreds of billions of the dollars we spend on government expenditures are the direct result of fatherlessness, from health care for poor children, to welfare, to prisons…” Graham.
While Fafnir is clearly over-the-top, and hates everyone, let’s not so easily dismiss what he is trying to say vis a vis the above quote. Black Americans have been held captive to leftist orthodoxy for two generations, and all of America is reaping the results.
The Faustian deal has been voting power for white progressives and for blacks the promise of equality of outcome, but paradoxically a further decaying of black America and the concommitant crime, welfare spending and other societal dysfunctions we see today, including a 70% illegitimate birth rate.
And Sandra #40 is absolutely correct. Had, say, Rick Santorum said the same thing, he would have been castigated by both blacks and white progressives. Heck even Bill Cosby get ridiculed by both groups for speaking the truth.
So this problem while effecting both blacks and whites, and poverty is one of the strongest determinants of future success or failure, we cannot overlook the racial component.
Jul 12, 2009 - 1:37 pm 48. Saltherring:Well, there, someone finally said what needed to be said. Well spoken, HonestJon. A sad, but also very true indictment of the culture of victimhood in Democrat-controlled cities. And now that same culture of entitlement is in absolute and total control in Washington D.C. Given enough time in power, Democrat despots will force all America to suffer as Harrisburg is now suffering. And no cries of “racist” or “bigot” can change what is fact. Inner city blacks have been fed, clothed, housed and medicated by taxpayers for over 40 years and what has America gained but continued dependency and increasing lawlessness. Shame on us.
Jul 12, 2009 - 1:38 pm 49. myth buster:3. That list of oppressive laws is a result of our moral decay. Only when the family falls apart can dependence on government, and therefore the creation of an oppressive government, develop. It’s not an alternate explanation, just a back story on the causal chain.
Jul 12, 2009 - 1:49 pm 50. hM:Because, you know, we all know how much trouble most kids from stable homes with high moral standards get into. Oh, wait…
My own personal feeling is that, yes, traditional family values will always trump the “do whatever you want” lifestyle. However, overall, I don’t really care what other people do with their lives. It doesn’t bother me that other people have different moral values than I do. What does bother me is when people start putting down traditional values, especially when the reason is transparently to make themselves feel better about their own situation. I don’t shove the results of my choices in your face so I would appreciate it if you wouldn’t shove the results of your choices in mine, then imply that I’m the one in the wrong.
As far as the whole single mother issue, I spent a couple of years growing up under a single mother. My life was infinitely better when she remarried and I had a father again. My relationship with my father (the man who was my stepfather, then adopted me) has shaped my life for the better in ways that I’m sure I take for granted. I would be a very different person if it wasn’t for him and I know that for a fact.
I think it’s irresponsible for women to try to rationalize their singleness if they are also mothers. Oddly enough, the single mothers I know who show they care the most about their kids are the ones who want their kids to have a daddy around. I doubt that’s a coincidence.
Jul 12, 2009 - 1:52 pm 51. Chuck Pelto:TO: David
RE: WHERE! WHERE!
Give US a url to that data!!!!!!
PLEASE!!!!!
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Jul 12, 2009 - 2:49 pm 52. Paul of Alexandria:[The Truth will out.....]
Delia (30):
See “29: Suzie”
Jul 12, 2009 - 2:57 pm 53. Keith:That’s how I endevour to be.
Great lesson from nature:
Anyone see the documentary on Killer Elephants? Apparently a haven for elephants was set up in Africa that consisted of female adult elephants and young elephants that survived poaching. As the young elephants grew to adolescence, endangered rhinos on the preserve started ending up dead.
Seems the adolescent male elephants were prematurely coming into musk and running rampant. After wondering why this was happening, park rangers figured it might be due to a lack of any bull elephants being around.
So they introduced two big bull elephants into the preserve. They were quickly challenged head-to-head by the young, hormone-crazed males. The bulls ended up putting their trunks on top of the heads of the young males, who quickly switched to a deferential posture. The musking stopped and the rhinos stopped getting killed.
Why is it so difficult for some to come to obvious conclusions when it comes to people?
(By the way, I just noticed that show is back on cable.)
Jul 12, 2009 - 4:52 pm 54. Fafnir:I don’t hate everybody, blotto, I am just a bigot and hate the behavior of most blacks. I like red indians and Scotts and some English, Germans and Dutch. I love Sarah Palin and dubya and the memory of Churchill and Regan. I am NOT OVER THE TOP. I am a good dragon and not a troll (whatever that is) I do not turn to stone when the sun hits me. If someone like Clarence Thomas lived next to me I would like him. I just don’t see that my comment is any worse than anyone else’s. Tell me how I err. What did I say that strikes you as soooo over the top?
Jul 12, 2009 - 4:57 pm 55. rbell:Men need not apply. At one time I was bored with being single and not having anything meaningful to do with my life outside of work. I went through a public adoption agency and spent three months attending classes to qualify for being an adopting parent. I found the training quite good. I met a lot of wonderful people who already had foster children or had already adopted through other agencies.
I qualified based on income, age and my psychological exam. I went though large notebooks of orphaned children through out the country and saw many children I was interested in adopting. there were a lot of heart breaking stories for kids with no dads who were abandoned by their moms.
There were only two single men in the class. We both got a surprised when it came time to adopt. We learned that we could only adopt adolescents boys above the age of 12 I was interested in a young boy or girl or both around the ages of 6 or 7. We were also told that we could not impart any religious feeling we might have onto the children. He was black and I was white but we were both Christians. They offered him a kid just out of reform school and I got a young man who had been through many foster homes and had a learners permit to drive a car. Instead of being potential dads were offered to be big brothers.
I was so offended that by the dismissive attitude of my feminist counselor that I dropped out of the program. It is another example of the low esteem that men have in this society. It is the kids who suffer and it is not restricted to low income uneducated families. I have seen a lot of messed up kids with moms who earning six figures an pay people to take care of their kids.
Jul 12, 2009 - 5:36 pm 56. Banned by Huffpo:31.
“Kids need two parents and a stable home. While they can get along with only one parent, having a stable home is vital. The problem populations discussed here – prisoners, runaways, et al. – did not have stable homes, I wager.”
Amen, sister. That’s about it in a nutshell.
Jul 12, 2009 - 5:38 pm 57. Joshua:All in all I have no argument with Graham’s piece. There is one thing about it that bothers me though. His main thesis is that it’s better for the children, and for society at large, to grow up with a married mother and father than with a single parent – as if those were the only two viable possibilities.
Sure, most of the alternatives Graham doesn’t mention (adoption, step-parenting, foster homes etc.) are still clearly superior to having only one parent. But there’s one that comes to mind that I’m not so sure about: What if the absentee fathers had acted responsibly right from the outset by, you know, not knocking these women up in the first place? The upside to this is obvious: the nation would then have that many fewer children being raised by single parents, with all the attendant problems that entails. But there is also a less obvious downside: the nation would then have that many fewer children, period. That is, fewer chances at more productive members of society in the future.*
What I’m getting at is one simple question: If all these children of single parents were instead never conceived to begin with, would that be a net positive or negative for the nation? If it’s a net negative, then we have a paradox on our hands: unmarried couples who practice sexual responsibility by abstaining or using effective contraception are actually harming society by not bringing these children into the world. But if it’s a net positive, the implications are even more disturbing: it suggests that it’s in society’s best interest to keep single women from giving birth, which smacks of a eugenics policy.
===
* (OK, so I do have one objection to Graham’s piece: its title. As long as you have life, there is always a chance, however slim it might be, of making it worthwhile.)
Jul 12, 2009 - 5:50 pm 58. Rosita:Wow, you guys are so right on. Single mothers should be burned as witches at the stake, along with their wretched brood! Those children have no chance anyway, right?
vicsmith one of the only normal people commenting on here.
Not only are you guys obviously very resentful, you’re also very very uncharitable people. Try a little Christianity. It’s nice.
Jul 12, 2009 - 6:52 pm 59. eor:What’s with only blaming the fathers? What about the mothers whose children all have different fathers? There is a lot of blame to go around.
Jul 12, 2009 - 6:57 pm 60. RAH:In medieval times the children and boys of wellborn parents were under the care of the mother until 5 and then the boy was under the fathers care and they treated the boy harshly if he failed to do his chores or work hard. Mothers were considered too softhearted to train a boy who was to be trained as a warrior. Non-wellborn boys were apprenticed early to keep them in line and not be troublemakers. Girls were more left under the mothers care under marriage, which was decided by the father.
The phrase that another commenter said was that the father was to hammer the nail straight is correct.
However fathers often get snookered by their daughters when they have sole care, they don’t know how to say no to their little girl who when she hits teenage years is practicing her manipulation skills to get what she wants.
When girls and boys role models are the older kids who get pregnant and the boys that bully and intimidate then that is what they will become also. Regrettably many poor black neighborhoods are just that way.
However middle class girls and boys are imitating this bad behavior. See the Palin’s. Bristol fell for the bad boy and had sex and got pregnant. His mother failed to be tough enough and allowed him free rein. The mother got in trouble with drugs and the boy is playing on his fame. Regrettably he will fall by the wayside when talk shows no longer want to use him to embarrass the Palin’s. He will have a hard time living it down with employers with everybody seeing his shoddy behavior.
Bristol will have the support of her family to succeed despite her bad choices.
These social deviances have worse effect on families that live on the margin.
Jul 12, 2009 - 7:24 pm 61. Frankie:Sorry Rosita….someone wins a lottery almost every week, but from a statistical standpoint for most players, playing the lottery is a losing proposition. Maybe you can successfully raise your child without the father, for your sake and the child’s we all hope so. But making it happen is statistically more difficult without the father involved, and those statistics themselves are the record of the many single mothers who, in spite of their best efforts and intentions, did not beat the odds.
Jul 12, 2009 - 7:59 pm 62. Troll # 237:Fafnir and Rosita, right on! You’re both so…like…yeah!
Jul 12, 2009 - 8:19 pm 63. misanthropicus:Simply, there isn’t such a thing like a positive “alternative family”, no matter how much liberals contort themselves, pointing to examples like worms or Tobriand island aborigenes or whatever.
Deconstruct, ratiocinate, re-posses semantically, occupy the universities cubicles and pressure Congress in absurd legislation, but – Epurr Si Mouve!
The roundness of man/woman family nucleus provides the children with an formative experience, emotional and otherwise, that simply cannot be replicated by single mothers, Heather and Jessica, Lynn, Martha and Alice, Bob and Brian, Nick, Joe and their parrot –
I agree that Tarzan, Mowgli and Romulus & Remus were reared by non-traditional families and that they indeed had edifying careers – yet those, and a few other resembilig cases (Sean Penn reared by groundhogs, Al Franken by cesspool worms and Sandra Bernhard by red-assed baboons), must not provide an inspiration for legislative action.
Q: A Derrida contest here: describe a suicidal society in such a manner that a normal observer wouldn’t get the situation:
Jul 12, 2009 - 8:19 pm 64. misanthropicus:A: A liberals-run society.
RE #45/David: [...] One of the more interesting statistics I’ve seen shows that middle class white kids growing up in a single mother home have a greater chance of ending up in jail than black kids living in poverty but with both biological parents. It should not be surprising that parents are more important than the effects of poverty or supposed racial prejudice, but a lot of legislators don’t want to admit this. [..]
Dave, you’re a homophobic, bigoted and racist we need legislation to muzzle such hateful speech!
Jul 12, 2009 - 8:28 pm 65. David Thomson:Sorry, just testing what would be a MoveOnOrg operative’s answer to your statement –
You and your study are perfectly right – yet, unfortunately, cannot see your study mentioned at UCLA.
“Single mothers should be burned as witches at the stake, along with their wretched brood!”
Who is saying this? You seem to be jumping to an invalid conclusion. They are merely pointing out the empirical evidence that the odds are against children in broken homes. And this is indisputable! Your work ethic and advanced education help you to raise your single daughter—but most unmarried women with children are barely able to earn a modest income.
Jul 12, 2009 - 8:30 pm 66. Saltherring:Rosita,
Yes, Christianity involves charity, but also personable accountability for actions and behavior. Jesus had compassion for sinners yet admonished those enslaved to sin to repent and turn from evil. There are always consequences to Immoral behavior, and “compassionate”, unconditional whitewashing won’t soften the landing or motivate one to make necessary changes in their life. Our society is already much too “understanding” of irresponsible people, failing to hold people accountable for their actions and offering taxpayer-provided benefits to those who persist in making bad choices.
Jul 12, 2009 - 9:15 pm 67. Anonymous:6 chantal:
“And a lot of the 97% of crimes committed by males in the US every year are are committed by FATHERS, not single mothers. This is the example they set to their SONS! Many of the absent fathers are absent because they are in PRISON!”
It’s been a few years since I read the study, but I’m certain the upshot was that the most dangerous person in a child’s life is “Mommy’s most recent live-in boyfriend”; “Daddy, who is married to Mommy” is near or at the bottom of the list. And I’m almost certain that single mothers commit more crimes against their children then married fathers. IIRC,the study was in the Weekly Standard.
Jul 12, 2009 - 10:07 pm 68. Jeannette:chantal 6: “And a lot of the 97% of crimes committed by males in the US every year are are committed by FATHERS, not single mothers. This is the example they set to their SONS! Many of the absent fathers are absent because they are in PRISON!”
In real life, not TV, children are most at risk from “Mommy’s latest live-in boyfriend”. “Daddy, who is married to Mommy” is at the bottom of the list, much lower than “Single Mother”.
Jul 12, 2009 - 10:11 pm 69. Joe Bison:To #58-No not resentful- just tired of the
collateral damage intruding into their lives
from the lifestyle choices of the single mommies.
Try Christianity? Sorry Christianity entails
certain behavior and belief-not just being “nice”.
Secondly as I said before the liberal messiah
Jul 12, 2009 - 10:14 pm 70. Marilyn:told us not to cling to it. Recently,in fact,
Kathleen Kennedy told us that Obama has
supplanted the Pope as moral authority among
US Catholics. Don’t diss him(Obama).
Picture it…
Jul 12, 2009 - 11:06 pm 71. hM:1950s, a popular T.V. show called “Father Knows Best”, and he did! Mom stayed home, house was clean, entire family at the table for meals, homework done, all 3 kids in the house and accounted for when bedtime rolled around, no talk of AIDS, condoms, out-of-wedlock babies, shacking up, pot, cocaine, crack. Never heard one of the kids say “f… you” to either parent (or anyone else for that matter). No visuals of anyone in the home viewing porno, or having wild and perverted sex. And, THEY ACTUALLY WENT TO CHURCH ON SUNDAY MORNINGS! I grew up watching this show every week, and yes, most folks actually lived that way too. Sounds sooo boring! How I wish those days would come back!!
Not that you’ll pay any attention – the above quote proves you haven’t been paying much attention anyway – but NOBODY SAID THAT OR IMPLIED IT. Stop overreacting just because you feel like everybody is ganging up on you (they’re not).
It is not unreasonable to look at statistics and draw conclusions. And I’d say it’s pretty clear that, in general, children that come from homes with single mothers are more likely to basically be screw-ups. That’s not to say that all of them end up that way, but in general that is the way things are. No amount of wishing it wasn’t true will change it. Nobody is saying your kid will be a screw-up, as a matter of fact, I’d say the prevailing consensus is that none of us hope that happens. But you at least have to admit that the numbers and plain common sense don’t point to much hope for most kids in similar situations.
This has nothing to do with charity. Or Christianity, for that matter. But if you want to drag religion into it, I can guarantee you’ll have a hard time finding mention of single parenthood being noble in the Bible. As a matter of fact, I seem to remember it mentioning an awful lot about whole families. And I would say that it’s not only uncharitable to enable the lifestyle of single motherhood, it’s also cruel to the children.
I’m not attacking you. Nobody here is. I just want to make that clear. But if you insist on overreacting to people’s opinions here you’re not going to win any sympathy and you’re just going to end up alienating yourself.
Jul 12, 2009 - 11:23 pm 72. Chuck Pelto:TO: Rosita
RE: [OT] But You….
….asked for it.
Has the Christ come in the flesh?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Jul 13, 2009 - 12:55 am 73. Chuck Pelto:[Ask a simple questions.....get another question back at ya.]
P.S. Why does Rosita remind me of sheesh?
Jul 13, 2009 - 1:02 am 74. Marie Claude:Alceste,
Jul 13, 2009 - 3:42 am 75. Broadsword:love your exemples and, surtout, your referrence to Derida
on a toujours besoin d’un petit françois LMAO
One thinks the argument could be made that LBJ,with the ‘Great Society’ program deliberately intended to destroy black families.
Jul 13, 2009 - 4:56 am 76. Chuck Pelto:TO: Broadsword
RE: LBJ’s Plan….
….was unintentional. It wasn’t discovered until the early 70s, when Mathimatica did a test at the behest of the Democrats in Congress, to see what happened when the government gave money to married people.
Interestingly, the report from a reliable source, indicated that families WERE destroyed as a result of a ‘guarrenteed minimal income’. The divorce rate amongst those families skyrocketed.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Jul 13, 2009 - 5:55 am 77. Paul of Alexandria:[The Truth will out....]
Rosita (58):
Please explain how you get this out of the discussion? Talk about an ad-hominum attack!
I hesitate to tell you, but this is the Christian approach. You know: “You shall not commit adultery”, “Honor your father and your mother, that it may be well with you and you may live long on the Earth”, divorce only in the case of adultery or mistreatment, the sanctity of marriage, etc, etc.
Charity doesn’t mean that you politely smile and wave as somebody drives over a cliff.
Jul 13, 2009 - 7:15 am 78. I Blame the Parents:The illegitimacy rate in this country is 40%. Among blacks, it is 70%. This isn’t ‘accidental’ – it is a lifestyle. From what I’ve read about the statistics, the problem is mostly among the underclass, rarely among the college educated.
My uncle worked in the prison system of a large city and came up with the same statistic. Most of the inmates were fatherless, and in most of those cases, the parents never married. Other statistics for illegitimate children relate to lower birth weights, higher infant mortality, mroe poverty, more problems in school, more trouble with the law, etc. Bastardy is the cause of most social problems costing us taxes.
Sadly, too many people don’t care enough about their children to bring them into the world at the appropriate time.
Suffice it to say that those neigborhoods who are suffering the effects of predatory young men, the problem is of the residents’ own making.
Jul 13, 2009 - 7:20 am 79. Texan99:There used to be a lot more emphasis than there is today on a woman’s need for caution in choosing a sexual partner. It’s not too hard to find an attractive, willing male sex partner when you’re a young woman of childbearing age. It’s a lot harder to find a man you can have sex with without running a big risk that the resulting pregnancy will leave you a single mom because “dad” has headed for the hills. Is he a jerk for heading for the hills? Is it as much fault as yours that the child doesn’t have a father? Sure, but that’s not much consolation to the child who’s now severely at risk.
It’s more and more common these days to poke fun at those fuddy-duddies who think you should get to know a partner’s character thoroughly BEFORE you have sex with him, reject him (no matter how sexually alluring he is) if he’s not good long-term father material, and then stick with him until the children are all grown up. Still, no amount of ridicule can change the fact that this is your ordinary duty as a grownup in charge of potential offspring.
Jul 13, 2009 - 8:35 am 80. Joe Bison:A final observation-Rosita sounds a lot like
my aunt and some other cigarette smokers I
know. They will always present the example
of some smoker who lived to 90 while giving
examples of nonsmokers who expired much
earlier. This is their justification.
Meanwhile they ignore the legions of smokers
who died in their 50’s and 60’s including
many relatives plus the statistical evidence
contrary to their belief. The smoker also
denies the damage done to non-smoking
third parties through their second hand
smoke.
Rosita you remind me of them. They get
very hostile when the topic comes up.
Perhaps you are like the 90 year old
smoker but just like smoking your lifestyle
choice does not favor a good outcome either
for the participant nor society in general.
Don’t invoke Christianity. The repentant
sinner can seek forgiveness but the practice
of the sin is not endorsed nor the counselling
of others to commit the sin. By presenting
yourself as a positive example you are
obviously unrepentant and are leading others
to commit the same sins. You claim to read
a lot- then you should know Jesus wasn’t
some sort of New Age Hippie who said “If
it feels good do it and screw the rest”.
Rosita- the fruits of the Church come with
Jul 13, 2009 - 9:06 am 81. Abu Infidel:belief and obligations that you have the
free will to embrace or not. Your choice
is apparent. But like anti-smoking campaigns,
Christians will try to save people from
self destruction and the destruction of
others through sin. That is the way it is
though it may stoke your ire.
Anonymous;
You are absolutely correct. Anytime a child is beaten or murdered in one of the badder NYC neighborhoods, the culprit is usuallly the mother’s live-in boyfriend.
It’s becoming quite predictable.
Jul 13, 2009 - 9:24 am 82. Aleena:I’ve known a lot of children from single parent homes. Some came from homes where the father left. Some came from homes where the mother left. Some women simply chose to be a single parent. In all cases, it was hard on the children involved; and most of the time, it was much harder on the boys than the girls.
It may offend some, but the truth is the truth. Children who live in two parent homes do better than children who live in single parent homes. If the truth offends you, that’s not my problem. I live in the real world. Twisting reality to fit your version of the truth is another form of lying.
And most of the these single parent homes were a result of one of the parents being so obsessed with their lives that they dumped their families to find “fulfillment”. And usually all they found was more and greater unhappiness.
Jul 13, 2009 - 9:32 am 83. ahad ha'amoratsim:And Rosita, who urges people to try being Christian, can’t think of no way to call someone a self-righteous hypocrite without calling him Jew (or more specifically, the mainstream Rabbinic Judaism of its day which today is known as Orthodox Judaism). There’s teaching Christian love and tolerance by example, Rosita.
Jul 13, 2009 - 10:34 am 84. ahad ha'amoratsim:#83 Sorry for the editing error; meant to type “can think of no way”.
Jul 13, 2009 - 11:00 am 85. ked5:My father died when I was 12. Life took a DRAMATIC turn for the worse. My mother had significantly LESS time for her children as she scrambled to provide the basics,(she didn’t have time for the deeper stuff children need to really thrive), as well as a huge decrease in family economics.
For any woman who claims there’s no difference I ask – did you grow up in a single parent home, or was your father around? If your father wasn’t around, (be honest here) how often did you miss him?
Jul 13, 2009 - 11:22 am 86. ked5:#6 Chantal:
Fatherlessness is a wilful abdication of responsibility for wives and children for whatever reason the man chooses.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
for starters, I’m a woman.
Jul 13, 2009 - 11:31 am 87. ked5:explain to me why most divorce filings are done by WOMEN? Why WOMEN take their children to other parts of the country (or other countries) so the father’s can’t see them? Why WOMEN interfere in visitation with dad’s who are anything BUT a deadbeat?
Oh, I should add, Hollywood’s portrayel of divorced mom’s (I support the distinction of divorced/widowed vs. SINGLE – as in never married, moms. There is a difference for the children’s outcomes.) also tend to portray the father as a looser. another unrealistic Hollywierd portrayel, but feminists love it.
Jul 13, 2009 - 11:35 am 88. ked5:Candace Bergen has come out (years later) and admitted Dan Quayle was right.
Jul 13, 2009 - 11:37 am 89. ked5:21: Richard
You jump straight from this assertion to quoting a bunch of statistics instead of providing evidence that the problem in Harrisburg is indeed caused by fatherlessness.
~~~~~
Jul 13, 2009 - 11:41 am 90. seven:No ‘jumping’ involved.
The #1 risk factor for a boy joining a gang is fatherlessness – and a desire to belong.
keds5
Jul 13, 2009 - 11:45 am 91. ked5:My mom lost her mom at age 9. Children that lose a parent to death, hurt a lot. But they do not get a feeling of rejection that divorce causes. When a mom or dad leave or in many cases are forced to leave because a parent filed for divorce, the child takes it personally and in a different way. I am close to my daughter and when she was young, I even curtailed some overnight business travel to be with her in the evening. When a mom sends a dad down the road, the kid hears about lawyer expenses and dad didn’t pay and other degrading horror stories. Kids can accept poor more easily than having their mom blame their dad for not making enough money and paying enough support so they can wear 120 dollar shoes.
The bible has strong encouragent in not exploiting or hurting orphans.
27. Chuck Pelto:
I wonder if anyone has done a compare and contrast study of the success of single-parent MALE raised children vis-a-vis single-parent FEMALE raised children.
I’m certain there’s a doctorate study in there SOMEWHERE!
~~~~
Jul 13, 2009 - 11:46 am 92. tc:sorry Chuck. It’s too anti-feminist to ever fund a study asking if children will do better with a single father than a single mom. (unless its stacked in favor of never married women.)
The steady degradation of the American family is a national security issue as well as a domestic security issue as those in PA are demonstrating. God created the institution of family as a good thing. A man and woman–with God at the center, can be a secure, productive and loving entity capable of providing fertile ground for education, citizenship and an ordered society.
The perversion of this institution via devaluation of the American father and by falsely inflating the value of single motherhood has led us to these results–crime, imprisonment, drug use, child abuse, sexual abuse, disease, lost productivity, illiteracy and societal decline.
I took comfort in the Cosby Show during the 1980’s. As I grew up in a semi-dysfunctional home, the sight of two parents who loved both each other, and their children was comforting–hence, it was a hit show! I submit that the President has not gone far enough in promoting fatherhood, motherhood and parenthood in this country. He is leading by example, however, there are scores of his supporters who need to hear the benefits of family commitment over and over again.
Thank you for writing this.
A homeschooling father of 3 daughters–convinced that the future of America lies in the heart and soul of our young women.
Jul 13, 2009 - 12:31 pm 93. ked5:90. seven:
keds5
My mom lost her mom at age 9. Children that lose a parent to death, hurt a lot. But they do not get a feeling of rejection that divorce causes. When a mom or dad leave or in many cases are forced to leave because a parent filed for divorce, the child takes it personally and in a different way. I am close to my daughter and when she was young, I even curtailed some overnight business travel to be with her in the evening. When a mom sends a dad down the road, the kid hears about lawyer expenses and dad didn’t pay and other degrading horror stories. Kids can accept poor more easily than having their mom blame their dad for not making enough money and paying enough support so they can wear 120 dollar shoes.
The bible has strong encouragent in not exploiting or hurting orphans.
~~~
One reason I support a differentiation of children of divorce/widowed/never marrieds. the outcomes are statistically different. children who grow up with a parent missing due to death fare the best of the three, never marrieds biological the worst.
In my case, my parents discussed divorced for a few years prior to my father’s death. I wanted to live with my father, as he paid more attention. My father’s parents divorced when he was two, his mother remarried when he was five, and he never saw his father until he was married with children of his own. my father suffered from clinical depression his whole life, and OD’d one Father’s Day weekend. My mother refused to call an aide unit for 18 hours – she wanted to teach him a lesson. I don’t have much respect for my mother, I love her and take care of her, but I don’t admire her.
As for the divorce thing, I’ve seen how my brother’s ex treated him over the years (his children are now adults). He was active duty when they married, and in school to get an engineering degree. She constantly intereferred, and took their children, including newborn baby daughter, across the country to visit her mother, then declared she was staying and wanted a divorce. She did everything to undermine him. When their then-teenage son tried to move in with my brother (after being kicked out by his mother), she had a huge fit and did everything in her power to keep him away from my brother. I confess, there was some satisfaction the day nephew asked my mother why my brother left – he was told the truth, his MOTHER left. (because she didn’t like my brother working full time military AND going to college to get a BS.)
The sad thing is, one day, children grow up and don’t believe everything they are told – in that day, mom’s who do nothing but undermine their child’s father loose all credibility, and they ultimately harm their relationship with their children.
I have developed some real appreciation for the admonition in the Bible to “not neglect the fatherless and the widow’s ‘in their affliction’ “. as statics show, it is an affliction.
Jul 13, 2009 - 12:45 pm 94. Clayton E. Cramer:“Wow, you guys are so right on. Single mothers should be burned as witches at the stake, along with their wretched brood! Those children have no chance anyway, right?”
Rosita, how did you EVER get that out of Adam’s article? He was pointing out that single mothers are doing the work of two parents, and not surprisingly, it is incredibly hard to do, and we should not be surprised that fatherless children have a lot more problems because of it. He’s not blaming single mothers–he’s saying that our society should be encouraging Mom and Dad to stay together.
Jul 13, 2009 - 1:09 pm 95. Clayton E. Cramer:Fatherlessness is a wilful abdication of responsibility for wives and children for whatever reason the man chooses.
There are some really bad sperm donors out there. But there are some really bad mothers, too. I’ve seen a lot of marriages fail because of both.
Jul 13, 2009 - 1:12 pm 96. Abu Infidel:Ked5;
You asked “explain to me why most divorce filings are done by WOMEN?”
Statisically, men are more likely to misbehave. They are more likely to be physically abusive, to cheat, to gamble, to get in trouble with the law, etc …
This is not to say that women are angels, but to point out some empircal realities – at least for divorce in the above cases.
Jul 13, 2009 - 1:16 pm 97. Strawman:96, more to the point, there are also a lot of fathers who have no choice in the matter. Divorce courts give sole custody by default to the mother. They usually also give nominal visitation rights to the father, but almost never enforce them if the mother decides to refuse.
Until the courts start finding these non-cooperating mothers in contempt of court, and punish them accordingly, nobody has any right to be complaining about “deadbeat dads”.
Jul 13, 2009 - 1:55 pm 98. Strawman:Er, 95
Jul 13, 2009 - 1:55 pm 99. Chuck Pelto:TO: Abu Infidel
RE: Heh
You missed a few. Like:
• Women are more inclined to ‘trade up’.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
P.S. As far as ‘cheating’ is concerned…..
….why is it that that Old Book points out so many warnings about married women…..
Jul 13, 2009 - 1:55 pm 100. seven:Rosita. I think moms should lose custody as being an unfit parent when they have a new sleepover male stay for breakfast. There are also some legal cases coming along where playing games and interfering beween the relationship of the father and the children is a call for felony child abuse.
Jul 13, 2009 - 1:55 pm 101. Bonnie_:I could write a book on parenting mistakes by single moms that worked for me. I just haven’t seen that in the case of widows for some reason.
I also know a pastor who was raised by a single mom. she worked in a bar. Her 5th husband killed her.
I was shunned by a group of females a while back because I innocently remarked that single moms were a tragedy, not a choice. These women were outraged and furious that I thought a woman’s choice to be a single mother was anything but admirable and terrific.
In the end, numbers just don’t lie. You can protest all you want that single mothers are admirable and terrific, but the numbers tell the truth. Single mothers produce criminals. Single mothers also produce other single mothers, who produce criminals. The one factor that defines a criminal is this one: Did he or she grow up in a fatherless home?
Children need a father. Our culture will not survive if we continue to think single moms are tolerable. And yes, Bristol Palin should have given up her baby immediately to an adoptive couple who could raise him in a home with a father and a mother.
Jul 13, 2009 - 2:14 pm 102. A Grandmother:I finished grad school at Pitt in 1963 and my first job was in Harrisburg, PA. What a wonderful town it was with the Amish and Mennonite farmer’s markets on Saturdays and the wonderful stores. I would fill my lovely apartment with flowers bought so cheaply by the armloads at the market and exquisite creamy silk dresses from the stores. I got a pair of diamond dangle earrings at a jewlery shop there. My boyfriend (whom I later married) and I would get philly-steak sandwiches, a bottle of Chianti and sit under the bridge and look at the Susquehanna rolling by. There were regattas with all the streamers flying from the boat masts. I am totally shocked that blacks live there now and have ruined the place. Too bad for the good folks of Harrisburg.
Jul 13, 2009 - 2:36 pm 103. ked5:100. seven:
I think moms should lose custody as being an unfit parent when they have a new sleepover male stay for breakfast. There are also some legal cases coming along where playing games and interfering beween the relationship of the father and the children is a call for felony child abuse.
I could write a book on parenting mistakes by single moms that worked for me. I just haven’t seen that in the case of widows for some reason.
I also know a pastor who was raised by a single mom. she worked in a bar. Her 5th husband killed her.
~~~~
How about just having play-time-in-the-sack when there are children in the house looses custody. My widowed mother never fed her married lover breakfast in our house (they got it on before work), but her playtime at home with him sure caused LOTS of problems. (plus, his wife objected – imagine that, but the sex was more important to my mother than the well-being of her children.).
My mother did not fit the behavior of a “typical” widow with children at home, but of a “swinging” single/divorcee who was happy to be “free” and do what she wanted with no accountability.
Jul 13, 2009 - 2:38 pm 104. ked5:101. Bonnie_:
Children need a father. Our culture will not survive if we continue to think single moms are tolerable. And yes, Bristol Palin should have given up her baby immediately to an adoptive couple who could raise him in a home with a father and a mother.
~~~~
Jul 13, 2009 - 2:40 pm 105. locke:I agree that would have been best for the child. I know a couple who have adopted many children, they *always* ask their family to pray the *grandmother* will be willing to let the baby be adopted.
Great summary of common sense as not at all understood among msm,liberals and progressives, and the group the author did not address: the K-12 academic establishment. To get a special education credential in Nevada, I had to take a mandatory “multi-culturalism” course. It featured in one class a video, a treacly ode to all family forms not featuring a mom and a dad. I objected verbally after the movie to the instructor. I challenged her to provide any peer-reviewed support for the idea that outcomes for children in alternative families is as buoyant as those provided by mom and dad. Of course, all evidence leads to the opposite conclusion. The emminent thinker James Q. Wilson captured the essence of the problem 20 years ago: unattached black gang members live in urban “Old Wests” where normal restraints on behavior have little traction. I have seen it in middle schools, where the boys make furtive attempts, through clothes and attitude, to blend into the gang life. Almost uniformly, there is no father, or fear of a father figure, to restrain them.
Jul 13, 2009 - 3:28 pm 106. dck:“A boy need a father like a bicycle needs a fish.”
Jul 13, 2009 - 3:38 pm 107. Chuck Pelto:TO: dck
RE: Yeah?
Prove it. I defy you….
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Jul 13, 2009 - 4:50 pm 108. ehunter:[The Truth will out....indeed....it is but idiots like dck can't recognize it. Or rather won't.....]
Ever ask one of these single moms what happened to Dad? The usual cop out is to pretend complete bafflement, or to go the simplistic “he was evil” routine.
Jul 13, 2009 - 7:15 pm 109. misanthropicus:And of course when they start using pre fab vocabulary from Oprah or Rikki or Jerry..you know you are even deeper into the land of female self deception. But for the perceptive the truth is usually there to be seen. When you talk to a 32 year old woman and she has the same mind, emotions and interests of a 16 year old when you realize she has never read a serious book, never showed the slightest interest in anything but TV, clothes, and “fun”,when her attitude towards men is that they are walking wallets, when what little personality she has is rigidified by Feminist ideology…is it really such a mystery why the living with her became intolerable for any man?
RE # 75/Broadsword: [...] One thinks the argument could be made that LBJ,with the ‘Great Society’ program deliberately intended to destroy black families. [...]
I wouldn’t go that far in LBJ’ thing, “deliberately intended to…”
Jul 13, 2009 - 7:21 pm 110. misanthropicus:However, unfortunately the unintended consequences have been terrible – and they’ll keep visiting this nation for a generation or more…
RE # 102/A Grandmother: [...] iWhat a wonderful town it was [Harrisburg] with the Amish and Mennonite farmer’s markets on Saturdays and the wonderful stores. [...]
Gran’ma, stop these Rockwellesque remembrances, please – the world is now a much better place.
Jul 13, 2009 - 7:26 pm 111. ked5:106. dck:
“A boy need a father like a bicycle needs a fish.”
~~~
Was this meant as a mocking comment on Gloria Steinem’s male bashing feminism?
Jul 13, 2009 - 8:30 pm 112. a clay:This piece would have been much stronger had it stuck to the data, making comments like Rosita’s impossible. Single parenthood is the best predictor of crime
See
http://www.cato.org/testimony/ct-wc67.html
Read also Barbara Dafoe Whitehead, “Dan Quayle Was Right, Atlantic Monthly, April 1993
Welfare creates crime and povery – easy solution: get rid of welfare. Likelihood in next 40 months: zero.
Jul 13, 2009 - 8:48 pm 113. Marc Malone:I’m divorced. Have never had another relationship since. Not interested. My two daughters are the happiest, most well-adjusted kids around.
The secret? I live close to them. My ex treats me more respectfully now than when we were married, because she needs the baby-sitting service. She NEEDS my help, time-to-time, and so, is finally respectful. She never bad-mouths me to my kids, because it would get back to me.
I have the kids 2-3 times per week, mostly after school. They don’t feel abandoned. I’m still their Father, and actively involved in their lives, especially as regards discipline. So, I have good, happy kids. The exception to the rule, it seems, but not really, because it is about fatherhood.
Jul 13, 2009 - 9:35 pm 114. Meryl:111. ked5:
106. dck:
“A boy need a father like a bicycle needs a fish.”
~~~
“Was this meant as a mocking comment on Gloria Steinem’s male bashing feminism?”
…………….
Apparently, if you follow his logic, 106 is just introducing a new subject.
Bicycles need fish.
Jul 14, 2009 - 12:00 am 115. CRT:Glad to hear the stories about wonderful stepfathers here. But statistically, children in step-families, even when re-marriage is involved, still have more problems than children raised in a stable home by both their biological (or early adopted) parents.
Single women may be better off staying close to the extended family than marrying again while their children are at home, unless one of those extraordinary potential stepfathers comes along.
Still, unmarried live-in boyfriends are the worst choice when their are children in the home, as noted in several comments above.
Jul 14, 2009 - 12:33 am 116. shattered men:“I had to tip my hat to President Obama on Father’s Day for taking special care to remind fathers of their responsibility”
I am not so sure the president intended to say what most absent fathers wanted him to say. If we read it carefully, absent fathers have all but been told to shut up and keep sending those support checks on time.
We all know that President Obama’s father was absent from his life as he grew up. We are not however told why. Did he abandon his children….or was he forced out?
Most fathers have NOT abandoned their responsibilities and most fathers are not “missing from too many lives and too many homes out of their choice. Most have been kicked out of their homes.
Only 11% of mothers value their husband’s input when it comes to handling problems with their kids. Teachers & doctors rated 45%, and close friends & relatives rated 16%
77% of non-custodial fathers are NOT able to “visit” their children, as ordered by the court, as a result of “visitation interference” perpetuated by the custodial parent. In other words, non-compliance with court ordered visitation is three times the problem of non-compliance with court ordered child support and impacts the children of divorce even more
In recent years, we have seen many women plan on being a single mom and they are applauded for this. We even had a single mother give birth to eight infants and no one seems to care that there will be no father in their lives.
We also see many sources that even question if fathers are actually needed (other then for being a wallet)
I have often encouraged the men and women in Shattered Men to listen to the messages given in their respective places of worship on both Mother’s Day and on Father’s Day.
The results are almost universal. On Mother’s Day, women are all but told they walk on water and their halos grow brightly. On Father’s Day, men are all but told all the evils of society rest on their shoulders and they had better shape up. In reality, both are wrong and the truth is somewhere in the middle.
The big question then, is when are we going to start holding women responsible to let men BE a father to their children?
Jul 14, 2009 - 4:40 am 117. vicsmith:I cannot believe the level of hate for single mothers from these comments. Yes, it is much better for children to have a two parent home but to imply the reason they don’t is the “evil” women keeping these children from there fathers is ludicrous. Oftentimes children are abandoned by fathers. Child support enforcement agencies are alive and well for a reason. Yes, some mothers move their children out of town but certainly not most. Statistics show how many women are forced into poverty after divorce. Many of the comments bear that out as their moms had to work more than one job. Not to mention how many mothers, wives and girlfriends are murdered or assaulted on a daily basis. Shattered Men, we celebrate Father’s Day with all the joy and gratitude our fathers and brothers deserve where I come from. Maybe if you family doesn’t, you are the reason. You sound like such a bitter misogynist. I bet your family did run fast and far.
Jul 14, 2009 - 5:21 am 118. Abu Infidel:Vicmsith;
Most of the “venom” is directed against never-married mothers. The divorced and the widowed birthed their children into a proper two parent environment. Most divorced fathers care for their children and financially support them. Much less so with never married fathers, who frequently have moved on to other places and other women. In the underclass, often these o have several children by different women.
There was a time when a pregnant unmarried woman was strongly pressured to give the child up for adoption. It was understood that the child needed two pareents.
It is illegitimacy which is causing the most social problems.
Jul 14, 2009 - 6:20 am 119. chantal:Paul of Alexandria: you said
“No one has accused single-mothers per se of being criminal, just foolish.”
Not true: single mothers are blamed for just about every societal ill going, especially FOSTERING criminality, and are terribly stigmatized compared with single fathers who are eulogized and praised to the skies for just doing their job – just google “single mothers stigma” and see what comes up.
“I will not disagree with you; however no one is pretending otherwise.”
Not true: just about everyone on this site is namecalling and acting as if there is some huge feminist plot to deprive men of their role as father, despite the fact that men have been abandoning their families (and pregnant girlfriends) ever since time began. The only difference between then and now is that currently there is a “fashion for fatherhood”, and an increasing culture of misogyny and this is a handy weapon (ever heard of WOMAN bashing?).
“Indeed, I will hold that if you look carefully, much of the criminal behavior cited above is due to lack of proper fathering by the fathers of the men involved.”
So if lack of proper fathering is the cause of much criminal behaviour, why is everyone still blaming the single mothers? Why aren’t the “mascunazis” here involved in educating themselves and their brothers on responsible fatherhod and especially in making the world a safe place to raise children instead of a violent hellhole?
“One of the most important roles of a father is to teach self-control and self-discipline to his sons; a thing that a mother has a hard time doing. (Not impossible, just difficult).”
Mothers have a hard time disciplining their sons because “society” – like many of the women bashers on this site – belittle and disparage women and teach boys not to listen to or respect them, whether they be teachers, mothers, wives or any other female.
As for the myth that fatherlessness per se is THE causal factor in juvenile delinquency:
“Studies have shown repeatedly a consistent relationship between juvenile delinquency and large family size, marital disharmony, alcohol abuse in parents and overall social deprivation. A consistent relationship has also been shown with delayed reading age, below average scores on intelligence and achievement tests, conduct disorder of childhood and parental aggressive behaviour.”
Kelly, Mary, Bernadette Mackey, and Michael Fitzgerald, A TEN-YEAR DESCRIPTIVE FOLLOW-UP STUDY OF 50 DELINQUENT BOYS, British Journal of Clinical and Social Psychiatry,April 1999, Vol. 10 (1999) , no.1http://www.scpnet.com/paper4.htm
Jul 14, 2009 - 6:43 am 120. Saltherring:chantel @ 119:
Huh, I was of the opinion you couldn’t get good LSD anymore. Enjoy the trip!
Jul 14, 2009 - 7:07 am 121. Lynn:As a young girl, I can remember watching the Phil Donahue show and a man stood up stating how he makes baloney sandwiches for the children. The whole audience stood up and applauded him. He basked in their praise, and I thought that was so odd, as if what he did was such a feat.
There was a time not so long ago when childbirth and childhood was a very dangerous time for woman and babies. If a tree were planted for every woman who died in childbirth and every child who died before reaching adulthood the world would be filled with forests so thick that no one would be able to pass through.
No one is getting anywhere blaming one group of people for our troubles. We’ve been doing it for too long, pointing fingers and getting nowhere.
Everyone agrees that for children a “loving” father and mother are vital. Sometimes things don’t work out that way whether through tragedy or a couple doesn’t stay together, or the children are used like pawns in a game of chess.
The blame game continues. No one is free from guilt and what will end up happening is that after accusing one another of our “crimes” woman will walk away pissed, men will walk away pissed, and round and round we go.
Jul 14, 2009 - 8:01 am 122. Chuck Pelto:TO: Lynn
RE: I Guess…
….you’re missing the entire point of the article. The statistics speak for themselves. And those who refuse to recognize that are just continuing the problem.
And you’re right when you say, “….and round and round we go,” in an never-ending spiral downward into oblivion as a society.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Jul 14, 2009 - 8:17 am 123. Lynn:[The Truth will out....but fools refuse to recognize it.....]
Dear Chuck,
As a woman I will note what we females are guilty of, now as a man what do you say.
Do you think it was you that turned your eyes to your children? No I think not.
Jul 14, 2009 - 9:39 am 124. vicsmith:Abu Infidel,
I agree. Unwed, mostly impoverished mothers, not rich, independent feminists mothers or women who marry just to divorce so they can have free child support. Along with the poverty comes a lack of education, social responsibility and so on. Programs to help these mothers are now being closed due to lack of funding. This is happening now in California. Most of these children are not just lacking fathers. They are in need of everything from proper nutrition to a decent education and most things in between.
And there is plenty of “venom” directed to divorced moms here.
Jul 14, 2009 - 9:49 am 125. Chuck Pelto:TO: Lynn
RE: STILL….
….’missing’, or more likely, ‘evading’ the point of the article.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Jul 14, 2009 - 10:01 am 126. dck:[And so it goes....and so it goes....]
# 106-107
Sigh.
Do I really need to explain this comment?
I was struck by the angry dismissal of this piece by #3, Rosarita, on the basis (if I’m reading her correctly) that the piece is just a reactionary attack on Feminism, which she characterized by using a famous quote from Gloria Steinem.
My comment is the EXACT REVERSE of Gloria Steinem’s famous aphorism, and refers to the tangle of unintended consequence which might be attributed indirectly to Steinem’s glib remark as assessed 30 years downstream. I though everyone would get the irony immediately. I seem to have aimed a little high.
And here I’m going to pull PC rank by slapping my “Special Status” card down on the table, tapping it with my index finger, and declaring, “…and furthermore, I grew up in a fatherless home myself, therefore I know a little more about this issue than someone who didn’t–So there!”
Anyone who is seriously interested in this issue should get a copy of George Gilder’s “Sexual Suicide,” written in the 1970’s. Margaret Mead also wrote about this, and was a firm believer in the necessity of fathers.
So, since I actually agree with this piece, and know something about the issue personally, perhaps I am not an idiot after all and the local STASI can ease out of my face.
Jul 14, 2009 - 10:19 am 127. Abu Infidel:Vicsmith;
It’s possible that the removal of subsidized daycare will reduce illegitimacy among the underclass, where it is most prevalent. Once women realize there is no one to care for their children, they will be more serious about avoiding pregnancy. Or they will avoid men who won’t commit to supporting a child.
You always get more of what you subsidize. Let’s see what happens in California.
Jul 14, 2009 - 10:37 am 128. Lynn:Ah! Yes, Chuck all too ready to point out the faults in others. Pick up the stone Chuck, your aim is always so well…
off.
Jul 14, 2009 - 10:42 am 129. Chuck Pelto:TO: Lynn
RE: And Yet Again
Too bad.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Jul 14, 2009 - 10:56 am 130. chantal:[Facts do not go away, just because they don't agree with theory.]
Saltherring:
That’s OK – I know how much the truth HURTS.
Jul 14, 2009 - 10:58 am 131. Lynn:Yes, Chuckie sometimes on stone isn’t enough, keep trying. Don’t feel bad for me Chuckie, I wouldn’t be happy if you approved. I would somehow be off, not quite right, all sound and fury signifying nothing.
Jul 14, 2009 - 11:25 am 132. Chuck Pelto:TO: Lynn
RE: Out Of Curiosity….
….do you have any children that have been in trouble with the law or not turned out well? You seem a bit defensive in your denial of the information in this article.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Jul 14, 2009 - 11:41 am 133. Son Of Pelto:[Funny. Isn't it? How the Bible seems to be right about raising children. -- CBPelto]
I like single moms: they are more fun to date than their self-absorbed peers without kids. Many if not most are top notch parents. Having been divorced myself, I have no doubt it was better for the kids than to stay in a destructive marriage.
The problem isn’t divorce: ist aprents that check out from rasiing their kids. Chuck Pelto is wrong to think parents become indifferent to their kids BECAUSE of divorce. They weren’t doing it before either.
Jul 14, 2009 - 1:25 pm 134. Chuck Pelto:TO: Son Of Pelto
RE: Please….
….show US all where I said anything like that?
Go on….I’ll wait….but I won’t be holding my breath, sonny boy…..
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Jul 14, 2009 - 1:41 pm 135. dck:P.S. Did your parents have any children that lived?
…Upon further reflection (Re: #126), and in reading more of the interchanges, above, I have another comment.
I don’t think it’s useful to have “enforcers” working any opinion on this site. The idea is to say your peace, perhaps causing those who disagree to think a bit; it isn’t useful to get after them with an axe handle–particularly single moms. Honestly expressing a strongly-held opinion is one thing; insults, bullying, and abuse is another.
The online enforcement crowd, Left or Right, is in the fine tradition of the “Danites,” a secret society of vicious enforcers formed by the Mormon church after the bitter experience of being driven out of three places they had tried to settle and having their religious leader assassinated. Growing increasingly extreme, the Danites eventually massacred a wagon train of 104 innocent men, women, and children crossing Utah, sparing only a handful of the youngest children for adoption–one little girl blinded and with her arm nearly shot off.
In the town where I live, a Mormon was beaten senseless with a wooden picket by the Danites because he invited a man from the doomed wagon train to dinner. The man was the son of a doctor who had once saved his life. Following the massacre, historians estimate that about 3/4 of local Mormons left the church and moved on.
The best policy in dealing with all species of online “Danites” is not to respond.
Jul 14, 2009 - 3:48 pm 136. outsider:So, the NAACP is asking the governor of PA for help to control their black population. ??? Have any of you posters ever lived in communities with blacks? Do they really need the National Guard to control themselves? I really can’t relate to a US population needing troops in the streets for teenager disruptions. During my time on the planet, I have encountered blacks pleasantly while riding the train in the 50s when “red caps” trundeled our luggage aboard the baggage car, punched our tickets and served meals in the dining car. I have encountered blacks unpleasantly in New York City when I drove through a red light to escape a mauling by a group of blacks on foot as I stupidly transited Harlem with a bunch of stuff in my car. Also in New York City when I was suddenly surrounded by a large group of blacks dressed in white gowns and white suits comming out of a Black Muslim meeting. I had a near death experience in Portland, OR when accosted by a large black male outside the Benson Hotel who wanted my money. I was saved by a cop car, a taxi and an unmarked car racing toward us the wrong way up a one-way street. The thug ran off, but I wonder about the black culture. I have never encountered similiar situations with orientals, latins, europeans, or whites. What is the problem?????????
Jul 14, 2009 - 9:34 pm 137. ked5:96. Abu Infidel:
~~~
As the feminists take over, women are just as likely to be doing those things. Of the divorced couples I know, only three fall under men behaving worse than the woman. (and of one of those, everyone but the wife saw it clearly before the wedding, and she wouldn’t listen to the warnings). I know just as many of “woman wants to be free and party” or looking for a bigger paycheck to support her in the style she wishes to be accustomed. For most divorces, it’s very much BOTH parties fault.
Women can be very verbally abusive (my grandmother sure was, she treated my grandfather like dirt), and the reality feminists do not want acknowledged is women DO physically abuse their husbands too.
Jul 15, 2009 - 8:04 am 138. ked5:In recent years, we have seen many women plan on being a single mom and they are applauded for this. We even had a single mother give birth to eight infants and no one seems to care that there will be no father in their lives.
~~~~
or that she already had SIX.
Jul 15, 2009 - 8:07 am 139. ked5:118. Abu Infidel:
Vicmsith;
In the underclass, often these o have several children by different women.
~~~~
And these women have children by mulitple fathers – it goes both ways.
Jul 15, 2009 - 8:10 am 140. ked5:127. Abu Infidel:
Vicsmith;
It’s possible that the removal of subsidized daycare will reduce illegitimacy among the underclass, where it is most prevalent. Once women realize there is no one to care for their children, they will be more serious about avoiding pregnancy. Or they will avoid men who won’t commit to supporting a child.
~~~~~
don’t hold your breath. I’ve worked with some single moms, trying to help them improve their lives. (requiring HUGE attitude changes) Many don’t want to change their lifestyles – I’ve even tried to help TEENAGE GIRLS who *deliberatly* got pregnant. (so much for that feminist argument than teens don’t).
Removing subsidized daycare may up the adoption rate, or even the abortion rate, but I don’t see it dropping the pregnancy rate anytime soon among a segment that isn’t into birthcontrol.
Jul 15, 2009 - 8:25 am 141. ked5:135. dck:
~~~
Oh, puhlease. go spew your OT lies elsehwere. If you were truly interested in a “polite” discourse, you would have used the common term for netspeak – and encouraged people to ignore trolls.
p.s. learn to spell. It’s “piece”.
Jul 15, 2009 - 8:34 am 142. Son of Pelto:Pelto at 134: OK then what’s wrong with divorce? If it doesen’t amke parents indifferent to kids, what’s wrong with it? Pleeeeasseee don’t say “the bible says,” just give me your own thoughts–if you have any.
Jul 15, 2009 - 11:19 am 143. Free Quark:Ked5;
Unmarried childbearing needs to be discouraged as strongly as possible. I do not go to baby showers for unmarried women who have no intention of marrying the father. I do not send a gift and I do not offer congratulations.
Harsh? Maybe. But given the riskier outcome of kids born into those circumstances, positive reinforcement of that lifestyle must be avoided.
My friend complained about having to attend two baby showers for the same unmarried coworker. I told her she could have refused the invitation. It’s that simple.
Jul 15, 2009 - 12:55 pm 144. Jeannette:Sorry, I was both 67 and 68; I’d thought my first post was eaten and I was accidentally anonymous too.
Jul 15, 2009 - 1:37 pm 145. Chuck Pelto:TO: Son of Pelto
RE: Heh
Changing the topic, eh?
Not to be unexpected. Most idiots who can’t hold onto an ‘argument’ do such.
Glad you’re not MY progeny. I’d be seriously ‘embarrassed’.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Jul 15, 2009 - 2:30 pm 146. dck:[The Truth will out......]
Ked5
Oh you sweet thing! Sorry, I don’t understand “OT,” “Netspeak,” or “Trolls.” I’m just a Gemini passing through. I assume English is the official language of this “discourse,” whatever it’s tone.
What I did understand clearly was that I was instantly called an “idiot” for a misread comment someone thought in opposition to the established point of view being enforced on this site.
How is what I subsequently noted about enforcer incivility on this site “a lie” (ignoring the fact that your response in itself supports my observation)?
Presumably, you mean to say that as an expert you detect some form of Double-Think deception, but, you seem in too big a hurry to dash off an insulting, half-baked retort to select an accurate term that might make your meaning clear.
Also, I believe my use of the word “peace” is correct: as in “Forever hold your peace / Speak your peace.” In any event, it is not a spelling error if I’m wrong. It is some species of malapropism. Again, you are in too big a hurry to dash off a facile dismissal. You can’t credibly claim the power to do this when you yourself are so careless and imprecise.
Regarding your own elegance in the use of language: I see obscure jargon, transposed letters, “valley girl” slang, and two failures to capitalize the first word of a sentence, all within a few lines; but perhaps these are established stylistic conventions of this “discourse,” along with distemper.
I gather the real problem here is that I’ve invaded the established cyberspace of an ad-hoc social group, like a crowd of local surfers at a point break, who gather to enjoy a warm bath of mutual affirmation, and assault any innocent outsider who wanders in without the sense to follow local “rules.”
This is not a nice crowd, and I think I WILL go “spew my OT lies” elsewhere. Whatever that might entail.
Jul 15, 2009 - 5:14 pm 147. Saltherring:chantel @ 130:
I do know and will acknowledge truth. Unfortunately their was little or none in your original posting (#119). Better get some counseling, you dearly need it. All the best.
Jul 15, 2009 - 6:59 pm 148. chantal:Saltherring:
a) you can’t spell
Jul 16, 2009 - 6:41 am 149. White helmet:b) my original post was #6 not #130 which was a reply to Paul of Alexandria.
As for truth and counselling, ever heard of words like “denial” and “projection”? (If not, look them up). You are a classic case.
Gee mr. Pelto, I didn’t mean to overtax all that unused capacity in your brain by what you call a topic switch. FAct is its not a switch: point is: if divorce isn’t bad for kids, what’s the big poblem?
Jul 17, 2009 - 11:30 am 150. Chuck Pelto:TO: White Hemlet
RE: Taxing Issues
Still trying to change the subject, WH? Why is that? Short attention span issues?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Jul 17, 2009 - 2:21 pm 151. Anonymous:[The Truth will out....and people like WH are going to be 'exposed'....]
48. Saltherring: Thanks for the dibs! This is a rampant problem in the black community. They’re destroying themselves and we all know it.
regards
Jul 17, 2009 - 7:24 pm 152. HonestJon:48. Saltherring: Thanks for the dibs!
Everybody can see that the black community is destroying itself with this fatherlessness epidemic. There is very little personal responsibility that is accepted in that community. 50% drop out of high school—they refuse a free education. It’s unthinkable! No wonder it’s such a disaster.
regards
Jul 17, 2009 - 7:30 pm