Pajamas Media

154 Comments

1. A. N. Pierson:

I’m old enough to remember Murrow and I don’t remember him being all that great. It’s all rather pompous stuff. Let’s put it simply. Journalism is not rocket science – it’s not even cardiology. What television journalist that you can think of is very impressive? None. They’re all moving their mouths while reading teleprompters or listening to a producer in their ear piece. I’m sure Joe could do that just like everybody else.

Jan 12, 2009 - 12:34 am 2. Aakash:

When I saw this article featured on the home page, I didn’t know if it was going to be as it indicated it was, or if it was going to instead be a sarcastic piece. I am glad to see that it is the latter… Not necessarily because I agree (I haven’t formed an opinion yet, on this matter), but because I’m glad that this site allows both sides of this issue to be featured, despite Joe now being one of your own.

Thank you for your perspective… Keep up the good work.

Jan 12, 2009 - 12:55 am 3. Yaeger:

Joe the Plumber will just fine. He can’t do any worse than the MSM at showing bias. The only thing the MSM doesn’t like is someone who takes an opposing view point from theirs. It will be a pleasure to listen to someone (anyone) who has taken a fresh look at Israel vs. the killers in Gaza.

Jan 12, 2009 - 1:08 am 4. R.S. Reagin:

Journalists need a special set of skills? Gimmee a break, frankly this piece makes you sound as if you feel threatened. So Joe is going to Israel to do a few interviews, write a report or two, hold a microphone for a couple of weeks…and this concerns you?

” Lastly, as a reporter, we would expect an engaging figure on camera, exuding competence and armed with excellent communication skills in his native tongue. Have we any signs of this?”

LOL – an engaging figure such as yourself I guess.

Jan 12, 2009 - 1:30 am 5. robotech master:

Wow… jealous much…

I’m always impressed by the elitist fools who think that unless you have a degree from Harvard your clearly to stupid to breath…

First I guess I should ask in all your “education” what a “war correspondent”… because first I see no war and second I hardly see him “roughing it” reporting on troop movements and a host of other issues. I find it funny how elitist “journalists” somehow consider themselves “war correspondents” while never leaving their 5 star hotel room…

The simple fact is JTP isn’t a “war correspondent”. A war correspondent is someone who take huge risks while traveling with the troops and in many respects living the same life that they are… both in and out of the trenches. This whiny view that somehow because JTP is getting to hang out as a tourist in a 5 star hotel reporting news is just that whiny. I do most of all love this line “Providing live coverage from the scene of a war seems a far cry from watching a televised political debate from the comfort of your couch and tapping out a few witty retorts on a blog.” Lets replace “your couch” with 5 star hotel and yeah you have pretty much 95-99% of “war correspondents”.

I’m also always impressed by the massive skills that you somehow need to be a reporter… because you know talking and asking questions and well breathing are somehow rare skills. It would be one thing if we were talking about print media where your required to write… its another however to be talking someone doing TV reporting. IT REQUIRES NEXT TO NO SKILLS… other then being able to speak clearly and not be afraid of the camera.(and I don’t think you need a degree from yale in order to have those skills)

I find it funny how JTP has yet to report something wrong… yet is slammed however by your supposed “The goal of cutting through the perceived bias of the mainstream media filter is an admirable one to be sure, but is this what our newly hatched journalist will deliver? The resultant reporting should be an unvarnished look inside Israel’s struggle with Hamas, examining the lives of those on each side.” is a joke. CNN, AP and countless others put out fake news all the time… and thats ok because their from yale or Harvard or some other upper end “training and skills program” and thus its ok for them to put out fake news and hatch jobs…

The simple fact is your both jealous and scared that JTP might not fail completely… which just might give ppl the idea that whiny self important hacks(often called “journalists”) might be whiny self important hacks. Every time a common person steps up and tries to change things you must get rid of them before they find out the truth… that theirs really nothing special to the whole “being a journalist” whine and that most of the supposed “journalists” are just hacks who have thus far managed to cover it up.

Jan 12, 2009 - 2:03 am 6. David Thomson:

I have no interest in seeing Joe Wurzelbacher becoming “the next Edward R. Murrow.” The latter gentleman was often a left-wing slime artist. He was, for instance, viciously unfair towards Joe McCarthy. Does Mr. Wurzelbacker possess the greatest intellect in the entire world? Nope, but he clearly understands that the Israelis are mostly the good guys and the Palestinian extremist are the scum of the Earth. In other words, he solidly rejects the postmodernist doctrine of moral equivalency. Joe has his head on straight. This makes him far more valuable as a journalist than the typical member of the MSM. Moreover, Joe should get better as he gets more experience.

Jan 12, 2009 - 2:12 am 7. festdir:

Yeager-”He can’t do any worse than the MSM at showing bias.” Oh, like your non-biased take on the conflict? “Israel vs. the killers in Gaza.”…Hint, look up the word ‘irony’.
Robotech Master-”I’m always impressed by the elitist fools who think that unless you have a degree from Harvard your clearly to stupid to breath…” How about just being smart enough to spell the word ‘breathe’?
“Lets replace “your couch” with 5 star hotel and yeah you have pretty much 95-99% of “war correspondents”.” Journalists learn they must verify a story from two independent sources…..as your whole premise is anyone can do journalism, where are your sources?….perhaps “your clearly to stupid to breath…”?
David Thomson-”Edward R. Murrow…was often a left-wing slime artist” “He was, for instance, viciously unfair towards Joe McCarthy” It is ‘unfair’ (boo-hoo) to expose a fool that had/has no evidence of his slanders? “[JTP]..clearly understands that the Israelis are mostly the good guys and the Palestinian extremist are the scum of the Earth.” Well thank god he isn’t a (in your OPINION) politically motivated ’slime artist’ like Edward R. Murrow!

Jan 12, 2009 - 3:30 am 8. Jazz:

One brief note for Robotech Master, who said:

“First I guess I should ask in all your “education” what a “war correspondent”… because first I see no war and second I hardly see him “roughing it” reporting on troop movements and a host of other issues.”

The description comes from the proprietor of the site you are reading, Roger Simon.
http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2009/01/07/joe-the-plumber-mr-smith-goes-to-jerusalem-for-pajamas-tv/

“By now many of you have heard that Joe “the Plumber” Wurzelbacher is leaving for Israel tomorrow to be a war correspondent for Pajamas TV.”

If you don’t care for the job description, you should probably take it up with the man who hired him.

Jan 12, 2009 - 3:55 am 9. B Dubya:

Just in case you missed that memo, there are no Ed Murrows in broadcast news today. Instead we have Walter Cronkite wannabe clones and Keith Olbermann.

A 17 year old with acne and a WWWH punchlist could do better than the current crop. Either Joe has the sand to be a reporter, or he doesn’t. If he does, he could be great and a breath of clear air. If he doesn’t, the worst that will happen is that he will become a journalist just before he fades out of the public memory as indistinguishable from the rest of the NBC/ABC/CBS on-air trolls.

Jan 12, 2009 - 3:58 am 10. syn:

Unlike the majority of ‘professional journalists’ Joe Wurzelbacher is not in this game to ‘change the world’.

The main problem with professional journalists today is that they have been indoctrinated to believe they’re in complete charge of the rules, the actions, the words, the behaviors and thus make up reports which are designed to fit the change they are determined to create; it is not about bias, it is about arrogance.

Journalist, if you what to CHANGE THE WORLD then get out of reporting and into politics otherwise you’re just an obnoxious Big Brother.

Jan 12, 2009 - 4:27 am 11. venividivici:

Journalists learn they must verify a story from two independent sources

Wow! That’s some set of “skills, training and native talent”! Essentially, the only people not qualified to be journalists are people who can’t store conversations with two individuals on the same topic in their memory. Pretty exclusive company, to be sure.

Oh, like your non-biased take on the conflict? “Israel vs. the killers in Gaza.”…Hint, look up the word ‘irony’

The truth isn’t a “bias”, it’s just the truth.

It is ‘unfair’ (boo-hoo) to expose a fool that had/has no evidence of his slanders?

Perhaps you should look up the words “Verona” and “KGB archives”.

Jan 12, 2009 - 4:37 am 12. newton:

What – do you want for him to go back to plumbing? Do you think he can return to it after the beating he took? I don’t think so.

Let him go at this new gig. If he doesn’t like it after a while, he’ll know what to do.

Jan 12, 2009 - 4:47 am 13. Harry:

Personally, I am not going to watch the Plumber’s reports. I am glad that Joe sympathizes with Israel’s situation, but his involvement is a laughingstock and this is a serious situation. The media already showcases Israel’s “brutality” (without seeming to remember that Hamas is the brutal party here and that Israel has shown uncommon restraint for too long), but now they will be able to ridicule Israel’s arguments by focusing on a lightweight like Joe who has almost zero knowledge of the region. Why should anyone care what the media thinks? Because, like it or not, Israel’s ability to remain committed to the Gaza operation is based on the support of the few national governments, like the US, who understand that the “root cause” of this “cycle of violence” is the war crimes of the Hamas government – sending missiles wantonly into civilian areas and provoking war – and the continuing race hatred being taught by the Palestinians. Joe the Plumber adds to the circus-like atmosphere and makes the likes of Christiane Ahmadinejad (I mean Amanpour) look intelligent.

Jan 12, 2009 - 5:07 am 14. Valerie:

Journalists from the United States have no skills beyond the ability to write for a deadline. They teach that in high school, for those who want to learn. It is called “ready writing.”

Jan 12, 2009 - 5:09 am 15. Terry Gain:

“We might expect him to have a command of, or at least a passing familiarity with the languages spoken by the locals. He should be well versed in the history of the conflict, the primary participants, and the leading power figures.Lastly, as a reporter, we would expect an engaging figure on camera, exuding competence and armed with excellent communication skills in his native tongue. Have we any signs of this?”
–
I expect blog commenters on this site to be more intelligent, more fair minded and less snide. Shaw can’t even wait to see what kind of a reporter Joe is before he writes him off.

Why does Shaw hold Joe to a higher standard than everyone else, includng himself ? From what I’ve seen of Joe he’s more atriculate than most reporters. And he certainly isn’t cheering for the Islamists, which is more than I can say for a lot of MSM reporters.

Jan 12, 2009 - 5:17 am 16. Juke:

How could he be worse than the major media today?

And honestly, how much “training” does it take to ask Obama about his puppy & attempt to drum up sympathy for illegal aliens?

Jan 12, 2009 - 5:30 am 17. daveS:

I really don’t see how JTP could do any more “damage” to the “profession”. Journalism today has as much credibility as used car salesmen…

Jan 12, 2009 - 5:37 am 18. njcommuter:

A: Ya gotta’ start somewhere. And since there are no masters to whom we can trust this apprentice, he’ll have to start on his own.

B: We can do without polish, and without the ability to interview the other side. We need someone whom we can trust to interview this side fairly. We need someone more honest than Christine A-n-P, not equally polished.

Jan 12, 2009 - 5:44 am 19. Redheart:

Why should Joe not venture into a new line of work? His new president has deflated his interest in buying a plumbing business and working hard to better his life. We live in an era now where experience and qualifications really don’t matter that much (unless you are Sarah Palin). Instead, we line up behind people with charisma and likeability and Joe fits that model for alot of Americans. Whether he’s as smooth as his critics think he should be or not, one thing for sure is his honesty. There’s quite a poverty of that right now in the media, so I wish Joe all the best.

Jan 12, 2009 - 5:46 am 20. Vaughn:

I would much rather listen to a plumber turned journalist, than a community organizer turned President.

Jan 12, 2009 - 5:51 am 21. MarkD:

I’m sure the people denigrating JTP are against Caroline Kennedy being handed a Senate seat.

Jan 12, 2009 - 5:53 am 22. Jack:

I would count on JTP being a lot more honest than any of the “real” reporters out there.

If he is still there is a couple of weeks, I bet he gets a lot better and the press are going to be so pissed that credibility, real credibility will become an issue for journalists once again.

Jan 12, 2009 - 6:03 am 23. unseen:

hello??? being a reporter is not that hard. God you sound like you need an advance degree or something to report a story. You could not even report on a cat show and we are suppose to accept your advice? Journalism is not rocket science. This false belief that you can not take sides is stupid. Of course eveyone takes sides. It is the ability to report on the opposite side with class that puts the good reporters above the rest. Anyone can say they are unbiased and then knock your enemy or write glowing reports about you friends. JTP has already stated his side so he is one step above 95% of “reporters” already.

Jan 12, 2009 - 6:09 am 24. J:

Gee – another “journalist” gets his nose out of joint b/c an amateur is going to look at the other side. IF the mainstream media (MSM) showed half an ounce of balance in their coverage, members of the MSM might actually start growing their readership instead of seeing it decline.

The damage done by the MSM bias is this: because people cannot get balance in their papers, news, etc., they look for something to support their views.

At least JTP is trying to do something. GO for it,Joe. We need someone who can think logically and ethically. We don’t need the anti-Israeli hyperbole and emotional rhetoric of the MSM. They’ve gone over the edge.

Jan 12, 2009 - 6:20 am 25. sue:

If you think the appropriate answer to what ails the MSM is JTP, you’re more cynical than I am.

Jan 12, 2009 - 6:20 am 26. jt:

Joe asked Obama “a blunt question”? I’d say that makes him more qualified than about 98% of the professional journalists we’ve seen in the last two years.

Jan 12, 2009 - 6:21 am 27. Spider79:

“who will protect the Israelis and the global news audience from Joe?” I guess it will be the same folks who protect us from Dan Rather, Keith Olbermann, CNN, NBC, etc. etc.

Seriously Shaw, what is it that you need protecting from? DO you think he will submit doctored photos like some of your colleagues? Will he submit a fake video like CNN? Are you worried that a pro-Isreal view will get out? As a consumer of global news I don’t fell threatened at all, but thanks for the heads up.

Jan 12, 2009 - 6:24 am 28. Aaron:

We don’t have a Murrow to turn to, so we turn to a plumber. Some of us gladly reject the MSM for a straight talking plumber with a microphone.

Jan 12, 2009 - 6:26 am 29. RJGatorEsq.:

I was a crime scene technician. I processed a homicide crime scene at a Shell gas station.

I read about the crime in the paper the next day. The “professional” reporter got virtually every fact wrong. The only way I could tell that he was writing about the same crime was the fact that I was in one of the pictures.

The reporter even called it an “Amoco” station. For crying out loud, couldn’t the reporter even look at the big yellow “Shell” sign and get THAT right?

“Professional” reporters. What a load.

Jan 12, 2009 - 6:28 am 30. WR Jonas:

I rather like the idea of a fresh perspective on events. Most of us here know the first division of hands among a group of opinionated people is their personal political and world views. We see it as bias whenever they opine. So what if JTP is less educated ;his eyes will see more clearly than those writing from an agenda.
By the way, kudos to Roger and the staff for taking the risk.

Jan 12, 2009 - 6:32 am 31. Tom:

Why would anyone possibly object if JTP pick up a mic and ask a few questions.
Oh some say He has no experience, not qualified (sound familiar?)lol
Pretty much sounds like leftist sour grapes to me. They are concerned about Jtp’s quals to be a “Journalist” give me a break.
The left elected a Comedian to the U.S. Senate, Some on the left are even backing an obvious intellectual whiz to take Hillary’s vacancy, yeah now Caroline is obviously so very qualified. Ah but yes she has that degree from one of those accepted mecca’s of higher learning so she Must be qualified.
I bet at least Joe knows that there is no way the Mars rover could have retrieved a flag left by a previous manned mission, (eh..HELLO? Congresswoman? lol).
The only time they care about anyone’s quals is when that person represents a point of view other than theirs and that is all this is about.

Jtp is just a guy doing his thing , why does that scare leftist?

The obvious answer is they do not want any Pro Israeli viewpoints to be heard especially from a mere common citizen with no prior indoctrination into the leftist view.
No they would rather voice support for cowards who hide behind skirts of women & children, who use schools and other public locations for their attack efforts.
Come to think of it that kind of sounds like the way the leftist do things here. humm… isn’t that interesting.

Jan 12, 2009 - 6:34 am 32. Conservation Carmen:

Joe is a patriot – no parsing, no “saying the right thing as not to upset his base”, no worries about partisanship. I would rather hear from him ANYDAY than the loony biased freaks on t.v. nowadays. Joe speaks my language, which was called the TRUTH once upon a time.

Jan 12, 2009 - 6:39 am 33. ElectricPhase:

Heck of a time to be extolling the virtues of journalistic competence. Kinda like talking about how great the meat of some nearly extinct animal tastes.

Jan 12, 2009 - 6:49 am 34. Virginia:

Shaw says that “Thus far the only talents on display seem to have been a knack for emerging onto his lawn at an opportune moment and putting a rather blunt question to a presidential candidate.” Those are exactly the qualities that we would like from our news reporters: taking advantage of the right opportunities to ask honest questions and get revealing answers.

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:00 am 35. Brett Rogers:

Jazz says: “We might expect him to have a command of, or at least a passing familiarity with the languages spoken by the locals. He should be well versed in the history of the conflict, the primary participants, and the leading power figures. Lastly, as a reporter, we would expect an engaging figure on camera, exuding competence and armed with excellent communication skills in his native tongue.”

I say: Bravo to you, Jazz, for listing qualifications befitting the professional journalist. Would that any of the media organizations hire such a person, I think the news would be quite better for it. But in the absence of any such professional journalist covering anything in any medium today, I’d much sooner settle for someone I can trust. Joe earned that with his willingness to ask the right question, and his subsequent exposure on TV. I’ve come to trust his vision, and I find him eloquent enough to convey it to me in a manner I easily understand. Bravo to him for clarity of sight and the nerve to speak it. What a bummer that so few deemed “professional” have such clarity. I might suggest that you celebrate diversity, as the rest of us are often encouraged to do.

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:02 am 36. Ohio Granny:

Let me see, Peter Jennings, hmmmmmmmm, no special degree. In fact, he didn’t graduate from high school. But if he went to do Isreal v Hamas, I bet you wouldn’t be besmirching his right to do so.
Fact is, back durin the Bush/Clinton election of 1992, I wanted Jennings to be tried for deliberate interference with an American election. Geez, he wasn’t even a citizen of the US but he was so slanted that it was obvious he had a leg tingle for Bill.
All Joe has to do is be Joe. We aren’t looking for Edward R. Murrow because he is a myth. They all default to their personal POV. At least with Joe, he isn’t deluded into thinking his education grants him some magical world view that the slobs don’t get because they are unwashed and uncouth. He’s one of us slobs, by God. Deal with it. He isn’t trying to “educate” us, he’s trying to get to some reality. And for that, I’d put my money on Joe being around for awhile.

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:02 am 37. Paul from Hamburg:

“The point here is that journalism, as with most professions, requires its own set of skills, training, and perhaps even a bit of native talent.”

If that is true, why is journalism the only profession practiced by school children?

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:03 am 38. Dougf:

Ah me, back to the ‘DIE MSM DIE front. It’s a tough fight but worthwhile at any time.
The sooner that the ‘journalism’ espoused by commentators such as this DIES, the better for everyone. Tomorrow might be nice.

‘Journalism’ today is not what journalism used to be back in the day. Now it is merely what used to be called ‘propaganda’. And that is because it IS propaganda. And although it is correct that ” journalism, as with most professions, requires its own set of skills, training, and perhaps even a bit of native talent”, the essential set of skills required today, is a collection that no-one with any sense of honor would want to possess. I’m pretty sure that JTP doesn’t.

So I personally hope that JTP, NEVER becomes a ‘journalist’. Better a producer of ‘adult entertainment’ than that. Almost ANYTHING would be better than THAT.

And I’m really not all that sure about the almost part

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:03 am 39. Monty:

It bears repeating: you could train any bright high-school graduate to be a good journalist. Journalism is a craft like any other, not some holy art that requires years of professional training. Just look at what the scions of all those east-coast J-schools have given us: Eason Jordan, Dan “The Fake TANG Documents Are Really Real!” Rather, Stephen Glass, Jayson Blair, and (let us not forget) Walter Duranty.

Journalism is a job, and it is a job that can be done well or badly. All it requires is a decent writing skill, good observation skills, and a respect for the facts. And as it happens, these skills also happen to come in handy in various building trades. Say…plumbing.

Every time some “professional” journalist uncorks one of these thumb-suckers, I want to barf. All you ink-stained hacks can take your elitist attitudes with you to the unemployment office.

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:09 am 40. fsalw3:

I think reporting requires fewer skills than plumbing.

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:09 am 41. Will G:

Give Joe The Plumber a chance. As already noted, he can’t be any worse than the majority of talking heads whose only talent and qualification is speaking understandable English and looking halfway presentable in front of a camera.

He just may exceed the low expectations of his frightened doubting peers in the media business and outshine them all. I hope so. He will definitely be a breath of fresh air in a stale crowded room.

By the way, the other Joe, McCarthy, was more correct than not in his investigations. There were (and still are) Communists in high positions seeking to do harm to America.

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:11 am 42. Ohio Granny:

Oh, and by the way, about the “real news gets verified by 2 independend sources”, will someone please tell CNN, because they put a faked death scene of 2 boys getting killed on a roof top done by Hamas supporters and documentarians and called it real. It was so bogus that even I, a retired nurse, could see the doctors were just panning for the cameras, the blood looked like red ink, and honey, dead bodies are different that pretend dead bodies. They move completely differently when being wrapped and moved. But CNN wants to laugh at Joe because maybe he’ll get tricked. HA!

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:11 am 43. Person of Choler:

Virginia nailed it!

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:12 am 44. Andrew Lale:

Agree with most commenters. Bringing up Edward R Murrow is asinine. Most journalists are hacks. They cover the court house, the local sports teams and the county fair. Joe the Plumber seems more than averagely intelligent, and once he gets to know the situation in Israel somewhat, I’m sure he will do a good job of describing that to us. Thats all reporters do. The large media organisations don’t want a pro-Israel voice speaking loudly from the front lines, its as simple as that. If he hated Israel, do you think he’d be getting criticised?

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:13 am 45. Jim:

He looked OK to me. Speaks well, reports what he sees. What more does he need to do? Much better than the concerted effort to sway opinion seen in the MSM.

Excellent *first* report ever.

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:14 am 46. David:

Jazz, how do you account for the hypocrisy in your musings when Pajama’s Media draws its name from MSM elitism? You type here, don’t you? I suspect you would take a gig as a big name “journalist” at the New York Times or on MSNBC or with Harper’s. But, so far, you are in the minors with your “set of skills, training and native talent.” And now, you feel credentialed enough to muse on Joe the Plumber as a probable failure and certainly a charlatan.

I have published lots of books. It comes easy to me now. But the first one was nothing less than grit, toil and ambition. I had no training, few honed skills and only my own belief in my native talent.

I’ll give Joe the Plumber and Pajamas Media an honest look and plenty of room to develop a style and a resource for helping the “average” reader gain new insights into the Israel/Gaza enigma. Just why would all those skilled, trained credentials draped journalists with native talent feel so threatened by a novice?

Joe the Plumber is not being sent by Pajamas Media as a rookie. Pajamas Media is fielding a brand new team. There are no rookies. It is part of a new wave to combat the complacent, gentrified, tone-deaf, ideologues who call themselves journalists. If you think Joe the Plumber has an eye on becoming a status quo media elite, you don’t begin to understand the medium that carries your own writing.

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:25 am 47. What I Think:

He went to an actual war zone, and when under attack, got his crew into a bunker first before himself. He continued filming the real reactions of people actually involved — instead of voicing an opinion over stock footage from a safe studio.

We need more plumbers out there!

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:28 am 48. narciso:

He’s a former air force enlisted man, so that alone gives him more credentials than your typical journalist. The conflict in Gaza, against Hamas, is exactly like the campaigns in
Afghanistan, Iraq, Somalia; against Salafism and Wahhabism, particularly this Egyptian/Jordanian import.

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:32 am 49. Narniaman:

Wasn’t Edward R. Murrow the journalist responsible for about a million lung cancer deaths?

Joe the Plumber will have to go some to beat that standard.

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:34 am 50. allswell:

Dude, Your name is “Jazz”. How seriously are we supposed to take you?

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:36 am 51. GT:

Go Joe Go! Expose the lying left wing MSM when ever possible.
Anyone can read a teleprompter better than Katie Couric

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:39 am 52. Charlie (Colorado):

To be fair, Edward R Murrow was no Joe Wurzelbacher, either.

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:40 am 53. Pat J:

I lost count of the number of times Joe said “you know.” The man is an insult to journalism.

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:43 am 54. Chap:

The lesson to take from this is that we must often wade through a sea of Emmas before striking it lucky with one David.

You show no proof that guild members have fewer Emmas.

I think I’ll listen to the new guys, thanks. They show things the other guys with degrees tend to miss.

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:45 am 55. Interested Conservative:

Of course, legally, he’s as qualified as Roland Burris is to be a senator, and dare I say it, the PEOTUS is to be POTUS.

Will he be as entertaining as P. J. O’Rourke? Probably not, but he does have that service record going for him.

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:46 am 56. Zack:

Maybe if you folks had a few more journalism classes you would’ve learned to spell and use basic grammar.

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:46 am 57. Charlie (Colorado):

You haven’t read a lot of jounalists copy when it first comes in, have you Zack?

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:50 am 58. Maggie:

I watched Joe’s report and I enjoyed it.

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:50 am 59. EasyEight:

“Thus far the only talents on display seem to have been a knack for emerging onto his lawn at an opportune moment and putting a rather blunt question to a presidential candidate.”

Lets see…so when confronted by a man who would be president he had the guts and presence of mind to ask him a “blunt question” rather than fawning or deferring out of politeness. The man-who-would-be-prez stumbled in his answer, making headline news. What a coup!! How many journalists would kill for such a story?? And wouldn’t it be grand if our “real” journalists would ask MORE “blunt” questions of our politicians and and officials!!!

Will Joe prosper as a blogger-journalist?? Dunno, but he can’t possibly do any worse a job than many of the “professionals” who choose to tell the story they WANT as opposed to the story that IS.

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:50 am 60. Cybergeezer:

I remember Murrow as a chain smoker with a gravelly voice and deliberate speech. Cronkite has the same style of delivery. These guys were(are) media icons that are fading paragons. Something the current media stars resent. Media idols of that level are too expensive. All too evident in the cheap reporting getting published today.
Thank God, or whomever, for the internet and good news and opinion sources such as this one.

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:56 am 61. Roberto:

“The point here is that journalism, as with most professions, requires its own set of skills, training, and perhaps even a bit of native talent.”

Oh brother, you lost my interest right there. That elitist garbage is for another era. Anyone with a microphone can do just about as good, and probably better, than many of the CNN, Reuters, AP leftist crowd.

Go Joe, let’s hear it like it really is without the liberal filter!

Jan 12, 2009 - 8:09 am 62. Errol Phillips:

This guy Shaw is something else – a self appointed elitist know-nothing.

Jan 12, 2009 - 8:15 am 63. Jim Treacher:

It’s about time somebody took Joe the Plumber down a peg. Doesn’t he know his place? Why hasn’t anyone demanded to see his papers?

Jan 12, 2009 - 8:16 am 64. Shane from PV:

Joe ‘the journalist’ was sent to Israel to give an account from the view of an average American, and he offers no massaged message or selective information – just his impressions. I don’t know how much new information we might learn from his dispatches, but one has got to love it when Joe lectures reporters on their biased work!

But I do sense a bit of jealousy here from couch corespondent Jazz Shaw. For all the ass kissing he’s done to get on to conservative sites so he can slam Republicans (he was an Obama supporter), they’ve never sent him anywhere. So he vents his frustration with columns like this (remember his Palin column? Bitter…). My opinion is we ought to grant him the same respect he grants those he attacks.

Jan 12, 2009 - 8:21 am 65. Tom:

I don’t know how Joe will do, but at least I know he will try to be objective and not slant or deliberately tell lies like what happens now.

The problem now is the MSM has ZERO credibility. They are for most part against the State of Israel and Jews.

Also, all of the criticism of Joe so far is pretty much elitism. The thing is, it is very much like I saw the criticisms of Governor Sarah Palin.

These elitists in journalism think they are nuclear physicists or brain surgeons. I think not. Journalism is a soft degree. Everybody knows it. Honesty will go far for Joe.

Jan 12, 2009 - 8:29 am 66. Socal:

This is news as it should be “reported”. Simple, straight forward. Amazingly, I have seen hundreds of photos of Gaza damage but this is the first time I saw destruction in Israel.

Truth to power Joe, just the facts man, just the facts.

Jan 12, 2009 - 8:32 am 67. moron:

You’re correct—Joe ain’t a whore.

Jan 12, 2009 - 8:50 am 68. Fred:

Anyone who says that journalists have no skill set obviously don’t know any journalists. I have a close friend on the New York Post – and if any of you schlockers think you could waltz over to Sixth Avenue and try your hand at breaking news – not commenting on the news like the vast majority of Pajama media types, but actually breaking it – you’re just fooling yourself. These folks work never ending days, they have to ask hard questions of folks who don’t want to answer them, they have to study court documents, they have to wait around for evasive people – they have to get lucky and then they have to be able to write it up in a relatively short burst of language (which I’m sure Joe couldn’t do on his best day) – and they have to be ready to do it all again the next day. My buddy – btw, never went to an Ivy league – nor did he go to J school – he started at a small town paper covering small town stuff – for two decades.

Joe the Dumber is the perfect Pajama Media type – he doesn’t need a skill set – and he doesn;’t have one – which is fine, because Pajama media is not REAL media – it’s bogus blogger media – all talk and no action – and what was Joes FIRST big report from the ME?

Why – he said that there should be NO war journalism…

Jan 12, 2009 - 8:52 am 69. John:

It would seem Jazz, that you your piece on 9/11 and your insight was utter bullcrap as you failed to enlarge your soul, as you reflected you should. You are right in one regard: you are small, and with this piece, I would add petty.

So Joe went to become a reporter? What’s the big deal to you? The current state of the media and press, by it’s own self-examination, has shown that they are no longer objective in reporting just the facts.

After all the embarassments many “credible” news outfits went through (Rather, NYT, CNN to name a few), you have an issue with Joe? Unreal.

Jan 12, 2009 - 8:54 am 70. Sue:

Seems to me that Joe, the plumber, has been handling sh## so he’s already ahead of most journos for goodness sake. At least Joe will
call “it” as it is, not as the current crop
of journos have been doing: lying through their pretty fake teeth!!

Jan 12, 2009 - 9:04 am 71. njcommuter:

unseen:[...] This false belief that you can not take sides is stupid. Of course eveyone takes sides. It is the ability to report on the opposite side with class that puts the good reporters above the rest. [...]

These days, it’s the ability to report fairly and with class about your own side that is so rare.

Jazz Shaw blogs at The Moderate Voice and often helps Ed Morrissey with his show over at Hot Air. I think it’s fair to disagree with him, perhaps even strongly, but not to blow him off.

Dougf:[...] ‘Journalism’ today is not what journalism used to be back in the day. Now it is merely what used to be called ‘propaganda’. And that is because it IS propaganda. [...]
So I personally hope that JTP, NEVER becomes a ‘journalist’. Better a producer of ‘adult entertainment’ than that. Almost ANYTHING would be better than THAT.

And I’m really not all that sure about the almost part

The real shame of journalism’s fall into harlotry is that G. K. Chesterton considered himself a journalist. The only consolation is that he would counsel us to be of stout heart and find something we can do to clean it up. Joe the Plumber is doing that.

Jan 12, 2009 - 9:13 am 72. jim1234:

Jazz is a “qualifed” journalist. Now I know why cat-litter was thrown in his face.

Jan 12, 2009 - 9:15 am 73. Sissy Willis:

It’s the authenticity, stupid

Jan 12, 2009 - 9:32 am 74. ella:

Oh gosh, what an uproar.
For the present JTP is somewhat of a diversion from all these polished, well-spoken, I-know-the-best people on TV.
He will either be a good war correspondent or not. If he will be good more and more people will watch him, if he will be bad in the end no one will watch him.
I guess that MSM people are scared that he will be as good correspondent as their people or even a better one.
For myself I will watch and judge him on his own merits.

Jan 12, 2009 - 9:58 am 75. John B:

A respected brain surgeon had some problems with his bathroom plumbing.

He called a professional plumber.

The plumber arrived and fixed the toilet blockage in 10 minutes,,, he presented his bill for a service call,,, $100.00.

The brain surgeon was flabergasted; ” A hundred dollars for 10 minutes work!!! Why,,, that’s $600.00 per hour! I’m a brain surgeon and I don’t make that much per hour.”

To which the plumber replied; “Yeah, I know. I didn’t either when I was a brain surgeon.”

The moral to this story is that plumbers can be smart people too.

Jan 12, 2009 - 10:11 am 76. Charlie (Colorado):

Not to flog my own piece today (who, me?), but considering the things I see “real journalists” write — like confusing 1 page of a 50 page white paper on the risks of really unexpected events with active plans by the Army to suppress imminent insurrection — my guess is that this comparison isn’t going to work out well for you, Jazz.

Jan 12, 2009 - 10:47 am 77. Marie Claude:

didn’t he was hired for Madonna’s trip there ? and to make the report of her beheading ? some guis would like to know all about it, I guess !!!

Jan 12, 2009 - 11:02 am 78. Dittohead:

I loved Joe for talking straight to B. Hussein and not backing down, but Joe should stick to what he knows; pulling wads of hair and compacted feces out of pipes.

Jan 12, 2009 - 11:04 am 79. Mighty Bleistift:

@ What I Think:

So I guess David Bloom got killed in a “safe studio”, whatever the heck that is.

Jan 12, 2009 - 11:05 am 80. RE:

David Bloom was not killed. He died of a blood clot.

Jan 12, 2009 - 11:40 am 81. Patrick:

If Joe wants to be a war correspondent, why doesn’t he go into Gaza? That’s where the fighting is. The real correspondents are out there in the field where the bullets and bombs are flying, not hiding in bomb shelters like that big bald publicity hound.

Jan 12, 2009 - 12:24 pm 82. beb:

Glad to see this piece. I think Pajamas Media does itself a disservice to stoop to such a blatant publicity stunt.

I have nothing against the guy and admire his question to Obama, but I have no reason to want to follow him around in that area.

There is a good chance that this is all going to end badly and PJM has set itself up as the fall guy for picking correspondents based on hype rather than qualifications.

Jan 12, 2009 - 12:37 pm 83. jojobo1:

Why doesn’t Joe go over into Gaza and get the other side also.Don’t get me wrong I think Israel
is doing what they have to do to survive but most journalist report both sides.Best to remember that old Joe took pot shots at McCain after the fact.I would say he talks out of both sides of his mouth and neither may be the truth

Jan 12, 2009 - 12:39 pm 84. brooklyn dave:

Maybe we’re not looking for Edward R. Murrow. Does journalism really have to use the 1950s as the standard. Televisoon wasn’t that old of a medium in the 1950s, there were only the big 3, and people themselves preferred a more formal setting. Now I am not going into what Murrow’s politics was or wasn’t, but he represents an age that is long gone. All news coverage is opinionated– the question is how much? It’s 2009 not 1954…. and Murrow is in the big newsroom in the sky and Wurzelbacher is doing his thing as a journalist in Israel. You go Joe!

Jan 12, 2009 - 12:47 pm 85. sifty:

Drinking Bushmill’s in the hotel bar, doinking each other, and repeating anti-Israel and anti-American propaganda word for word like the MSM has been doing all these years doesn’t impress anyone. “Professional journalist” is about as impressive as “career politician”.

Joe is going to be just fine. I plan to drink a toast when Joe bitch-slaps his first al-Reuters / CNN / Hamas Reporter.

Jan 12, 2009 - 12:58 pm 86. Jeff Weimer:

At least here at PJM, they have the integrity to debate this obviously contentious issue. Unlike, say, at the Huffington Post.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kevin-grandia/on-global-warming-is-it-h_b_155379.html

Jan 12, 2009 - 1:02 pm 87. UsaBruce:

I’d rather hear the truth from a plumber, than propaganda from a college educated liar.

Jan 12, 2009 - 1:02 pm 88. Mark Fradl:

I’m curious, can anyone here provide me with quotations – video or written – from Joe Wurzelbacher that show him possessing any particular insights, eloquence, knowledge, or relevant talents? I have no problem with the IDEA that an untrained, inexperienced person COULD be a great journalist or correspondent – but fact of the matter is most people would be awful. Just like an untrained, inexperienced person might be able to write an amazing first novel, but care to guess the success/failure rate on that one?

I have nothing wrong with the concept of the brilliant novice, as long as they show me they have something amazing – I was against Sarah Palin not because of her experience (or lack thereof) but because of what i saw in her interviews – what I perceived as a lack of depth, a lack of understanding, and a talent for re-writing the history of her “accomplishments (like the lie that she was against the bridge to nowhere and told Washington to keep the money.) I supported Obama not because of his experience (or lack thereof) but because of what i perceived of as his ideas, his depth of knowledge and understanding, and his policy positions.

And can we PLEASE stop using the term “everyman” – there’s no such thing. Who is the “everyman”? The Ohio divorced plumber, the NYC Pakistani-American cab driver with a wife and kids back in Pakistan, the grandmother raising her bi-racial grandson, the vegetarian comedian who hates sports but loves to shop, the Muslim who ignores his religion, the Pentecostal who is fanatical about her religion… there are 325 million “everymen”, and no ONE speaks for them all. There is no “average” American Joe-Sixpack, any more than there is a “real” America in small towns or a “true” American in big cities. We are all of it.

Jan 12, 2009 - 1:09 pm 89. robotech master:

To 85. Mark Fradl

Can you provide me with quotations – video or written – from Joe Wurzelbacher that show him possessing any particular insights, eloquence, knowledge, or relevant talents of anyone who just started a job… I know of very few ppl just starting a job that have some massive background in it… in the case of most reporters they do crap jobs for years before they at least(normally through random luck) get a break and become a star… just because JTP hasn’t done massive amounts of crap jobs doesn’t mean he can’t do the JOB.

Jan 12, 2009 - 1:19 pm 90. sifty:

Elites (self-appointed, of course) live their lives in fear.

Jan 12, 2009 - 1:20 pm 91. sifty:

Joe scares the journalice because he is everything they can’t be. Honest, pro-American, Real.

Jan 12, 2009 - 1:26 pm 92. Mark Fradl:

Robotech:
<<>>

Did you read my post before replying to it? I said nothing about his background, in fact said that I’m willing to accept the possibility of someone being great at something with out having any background. My question was, can anyone point to anything he’s said- specifically – that makes you think he’d be great at this? Any insights, and eloquence, any knowledge, anything? Maybe he’s said some amazing things I haven’t heard, please share them with us.

Oh, and you can’t compare him to the average person “starting” a job – people don’t “start” a job as a foreign correspondent… you have to work your way up and learn and prove yourself and then earn it.

Jan 12, 2009 - 1:36 pm 93. Sean:

Joe the Plumber is PERFECT for the amateurish conservative blog site Pajamas Media. I know the folks at PJM hate this idea, but it actually takes SKILL to be a good reporter, just as it does to be a good plumber. Sure, anyone can put a mike in front of an official, just as anyone can turn a wrench and maybe even fix that leaky pipe. The amateur plumber, however, will find that harder tasks require the skill of a pro, just as the amateur “reporter” will find himself without the skills to do quality, in-depth reporting.

Jan 12, 2009 - 1:51 pm 94. Evil Pundit:

@88 — Joe doesn’t have to be brilliant or insightful.

He just has to be honest and intelligent. That in itself will give him a head start on the professional “war correspondents” who produce garbage like this.

When the best professional “war correspondents” don’t even know what a bullet looks like, they are pretty much worthless.

Jan 12, 2009 - 1:51 pm 95. robotech master:

To 92. Mark Fradl

“Oh, and you can’t compare him to the average person “starting” a job – people don’t “start” a job as a foreign correspondent… you have to work your way up and learn and prove yourself and then earn it.”

pfft no you don’t…

“Did you read my post before replying to it? I said nothing about his background, in fact said that I’m willing to accept the possibility of someone being great at something with out having any background. My question was, can anyone point to anything he’s said- specifically – that makes you think he’d be great at this? Any insights, and eloquence, any knowledge, anything? Maybe he’s said some amazing things I haven’t heard, please share them with us. ”

You asked a ballsy question and demanded an answer…. thats more then what 90% of the whiny hacks have on there resume….and maybe you should reread your own post and this post as well because you clearly are asking for background… again

“Oh, and you can’t compare him to the average person “starting” a job – people don’t “start” a job as a foreign correspondent… you have to work your way up and learn and prove yourself and then earn it.”

Jan 12, 2009 - 1:52 pm 96. Typical Whte Person:

the good thing about Joe the Plumber is he is honest, sincere and not a product of some left wing journalism school or a former speech writer for Jimmee Carter, world loser.

Jazzbo, comapares him to left wing loonies on the midnight comedy shows that make fun of Joe. Jazzbo hasn’t figured out that Joe the Plumber got the last laugh. He has a way of creaming the Main Stream Media while Steppy kisses Arzes.

Jan 12, 2009 - 1:58 pm 97. stuart Williamson:

Colleges invented the noble” profession” of “Journalism” just like they invented the professions of environmentalism and ethics, along with a flock of other “social sciences”, which aren’t sciences but are certainly socialist,

Mr. Shaw, almost certainly self-named “Jazz”, works himself into a lather of blather about Joe’s pretentious efforts to represent himself as a “Journalist”. Just like Sarah Palin’s posing as a qualified politician against the “skilled and experienced” Joe Biden or Obama.

This wasn’t Joe’s idea, you fathead – It was PJTV’s. Nobody, especially Joe, expects whatever he reports to be anything other than what it is intended to be: observations of an ordinary, concerned citizen, of reasonable intelligence, of conditions in a war-torn area.

So get off your “I became a noble, skilled, experienced JOURNALIST to do my small part to make this a better world and I am deeply offended by the presumptions of un-colleged peasants” jazz. You immodestly dub yourself a “heretic” but you come across as dull and misguided, a harmless, pathetic lunatic in need of an emetic.

Jan 12, 2009 - 2:01 pm 98. Jim Treacher:

I’m curious, can anyone here provide me with quotations – video or written – from Joe Wurzelbacher that show him possessing any particular insights, eloquence, knowledge, or relevant talents?

Are those somehow prerequisites for working in the media? You might want to tell the media.

Jan 12, 2009 - 2:25 pm 99. Cybergeezer:

Looking at Joe’s first report to PJM, it’s obvious that other professional reporters will not say anything that goes against their employers agenda. Proof the main stream media is purchasing and publishing whatever they deem as sensational, from their indentured reporters.

Jan 12, 2009 - 2:35 pm 100. Joe Ferguson:

There is no license, certificate, degree, or other required qualification to be a “journalist.” What do we have now among our stock of professional journalists? Biased, pompous, elitist, self-important, and SELF-APPOINTED arbiters of politics and culture who work to a set agenda much of the time. Journalists who consistently miss the big stories because they are blinded by preconceived opinion and fail to even look for stories that might not support their usually liberal mindsets. Our country and our culture have been so ill-served by these people that we are suffering deep harm from them.

Suggestion: wait to see what Joe the Plumber does before you judge him.

Jan 12, 2009 - 2:37 pm 101. fred:

I just read JTP’s report from Sderot and it was excellent. He’s going to be fine. So what “worldclass” jounalist are we supposed to trust? Andrea Mitchell? David Gregory? Spare me. When these sycophants with kneepads join the Seattle PI I will cheer. I do think we need journalists but I’ll take an honest amateur over a highly (Ivy League) trained hack any day of the week.

Jan 12, 2009 - 2:38 pm 102. Joe Ferguson:

There is no license, certificate, degree, or other required qualification to be a “journalist.” What do we have now among our stock of professional journalists? Biased, pompous, elitist, self-important, and SELF-APPOINTED arbiters of politics and culture who work to a set agenda much of the time. Journalists who consistently miss the big stories because they are blinded by preconceived opinion and fail to even look for info that might not support their usually liberal mindsets. Our country and our culture have been so ill-served by these people that we are suffering deep harm from them.

Suggestion: wait to see what Joe the Plumber does before you judge him.

Jan 12, 2009 - 2:41 pm 103. Cybergeezer:

And Obama should thank Pajamas Media for taking one guy off the unemployment rolls and Creating a job!

Jan 12, 2009 - 2:44 pm 104. Cybergeezer:

And seriously; I do remember Edward R.Murrow and Joe is a plain talker and straight shooter just like Murrow was!

Jan 12, 2009 - 2:47 pm 105. drjohn:

“No-Joe: Wurzelbacher Is Not Edward R. Murrow”

Neither is Christine Amanpour. Joe is better than her.

Jan 12, 2009 - 3:22 pm 106. cedarford:

Sean:
Joe the Plumber is PERFECT for the amateurish conservative blog site Pajamas Media. I know the folks at PJM hate this idea, but it actually takes SKILL to be a good reporter, just as it does to be a good plumber. Sure, anyone can put a mike in front of an official, just as anyone can turn a wrench and maybe even fix that leaky pipe. The amateur plumber, however, will find that harder tasks require the skill of a pro, just as the amateur “reporter” will find himself without the skills to do quality, in-depth reporting.

Very true. I, for example, am capable of starting an IV as a former military 1st aid provider and doing the initial treating trauma of the worst sort. I am perfectly capable of taking a snap as Quarterback of the NY Giants and throwing accurately for up to 20 yards. I had a column in my local newspaper until budget cuts killed it. I fix pipe leaks and do many car repairs. I could sit in the National Security Council given my smattering of knowledge of certain foreign lands, strategic military systems, logistics….and actually have something worthwhile saying once in a blue moon.

That does not make me as adept and high-performing as an emergency room nurse, professional paramedic. I was never 1st string QB quality, even in HS. I never tried quitting my daytime job and making a living as a journalist-writer because I think I wasn’t interesting enough. Or a real plumber, Or someone that had any idea of being on the NSC –

The point being, that while anyone can be a journalist and be a compelling voice, conservatives are on a stupid chase if they think they can drag Midwest white men off bar stools and make them compelling writers and reporters. We see the successful ones as people that are great communicators and writers…many who are outside the field of journalism…but still in fields where they are superb communicators by profession – diplomats, writers like Hemingway, Camus – actors, the rare musician like Bono – and absolutely magnificent spokesmen for his charitable interests and causes..

Conservatives should end the JTP Everyman shtick and look for THEIR high-level communications talent and urge certain conservatives with natural abilities to be articulate spokesmen and learn the art of using mass communications as adeptly as Joe the Plumber uses his toilet snake to wrest jammed sanitary napkins out of the pipe.

But like with American Idol – part of the fun is to have well-meaning but ill-informed and untalented celebrities like JTP and “Our Sarah!!” showcased in the early screening shows, but we sure don’t want the dregs coming into our living rooms on the last 8-9 shows. 5-15 minutes of fame is enough for those whose talents are only adequate to provide limited amusement or are only worth listening to on a certain type of song or a certain type of political subject.

Jan 12, 2009 - 3:30 pm 107. Nick:

Sorry, but Joe really has no place doing this. He has no experience being a journalist or going to war. This ugly sense of entitlement he got from McCain/Palin’s botched campaign is making conservatives look bad. If I was a liberal I would make fun of conservatives too. He asked a candidate a question based on false information. Wow. Please, sit down, Joe. Leave journalism, especially journalism covering a war, up to responsible professionals.

Jan 12, 2009 - 4:03 pm 108. Cybergeezer:

106. cedarford;
Nice argument; Although you seem to be arguing with yourself. Can you decide which side of the argument you want, then support that? It looks like you are trying to do balanced reporting on yourself.
Many of the super stars of main stream media have become what they are simply because they pandered to their employer, whom has an agenda. In other words, report it like we want or find another job. If that’s what you want, there’s plenty to keep you busy.
My education taught me to ask the important questions. It did not educate me with the correct answers.

Jan 12, 2009 - 4:05 pm 109. Donna V.:

I would think this a bad PR stunt – if it weren’t for people like Olbermann and Matthews and Jon Stewart. Not to mention the geniuses on “The View,” Sean Penn’s cuddling with Chavez, and Minnesota’s new junior senator.

Someone mentioned Peter Jennings either. Well, Jennings didn’t have a degree, but he was from a wealthy and well-connected Canadian family. He didn’t need a degree. Media’s Caroline Kennedy.

See, folks, that’s the difference between the Left’s unqualifed people and our unqualified people. If you’re a lefty with either the right bloodlines, Ivy League degree, or celebrity glamour, there is nothing you can’t do. If you’re on the right and don’t have the pedigree or the sheepskin from Harvard and aren’t invited to David Geffen’s parties, well, there’s nothing you can do – except accept the party line fed to you by the “right people,” who are much smarter than you.

Jan 12, 2009 - 4:07 pm 110. Mark Fradl:

OK…I’ll try again – can ANYONE here please give me any examples of things “Joe” has said that make you think he’s intelligent, straight talking, honest, or “average” (as if “average” is something to strive for now)

As for his exchange with Obama, he showed himself to be ignorant. Even if he somehow managed to buy this $250,000 plumbing business (all indications are that it’s a bit of a pipe dream) that doesn’t mean he’d be making $250,000 a year, so in fact not only was he set to pay less taxes under Obama’s plan but even if he got that business he’d be paying less.

And can anyone explain to me how they are against the “spread the wealth” comment? Unless you believe that every taxpayer should pay the exact same dollar amount regardless of income (i.e. the millionaire and the 18 year old waitress would both have to pay around $15,000) then you are in fact in favor of spreading the wealth, because you want the rich to pay more. So we’re not arguing over the principle, just how it is applied.

Jan 12, 2009 - 4:10 pm 111. venividivici:

And can anyone explain to me how they are against the “spread the wealth” comment? Unless you believe that every taxpayer should pay the exact same dollar amount regardless of income (i.e. the millionaire and the 18 year old waitress would both have to pay around $15,000) then you are in fact in favor of spreading the wealth, because you want the rich to pay more. So we’re not arguing over the principle, just how it is applied.

My lord this is a stupid comment. There are these things called “percentages”, you see, and fairness would require that all pay an equal “percentage” of their income in taxes. Exempt the low-earning waitress if you want, but why should I, who have plenty of ideas of what to do with my money, be forced to give a larger “percentage” of it to the government to support you?

It’s not about absolute dollar amounts at all. I probably pay more in taxes than you make, period, but that’s fine because I’m clearly more intelligent and successful than you and I’m OK with that.

As for his exchange with Obama, he showed himself to be ignorant. Even if he somehow managed to buy this $250,000 plumbing business (all indications are that it’s a bit of a pipe dream) that doesn’t mean he’d be making $250,000 a year, so in fact not only was he set to pay less taxes under Obama’s plan but even if he got that business he’d be paying less.

Actually, if Joe incorporated under S Corp rules, he could find himself liable for personal income taxes on that $250K. But, why let a little thing like your complete lack of knowledge of the tax code get in the way of making a half-baked point?

Jan 12, 2009 - 4:49 pm 112. Jim C.:

“But we should probe a bit deeper into Joe’s qualifications as a war correspondent”

I think we we should ask what qualifications those are, who set them up, how well existing “journalists” meet them (and who’s qualified to check that), and whether those qualifications are effective in doing actual reporting and presenting a factual report. So far, the qualifications don’t seem to be that effective.

Give ‘em hell, Joe!

Jan 12, 2009 - 4:56 pm 113. Mark Fradl:

Donna:

The people you mentioned weren’t dumped into those jobs off the street!

Olbermann – For many years was a very respected and widely loved sports journalist/anchor/commentator. Yes, that’s quite different from politics but is certainly a career that demonstrates whether someone has wit, charisma, intelligence, and a unique point of view.

Matthews – (although i’m NOT a fan) – Matthews worked as a print journalist for 15 years, spending 13 years as Washington, D.C. Bureau Chief for The San Francisco Examiner (1987 – 2000), and two years as a nationally syndicated columnist for The San Francisco Chronicle. — in addition he served on several Congressional staffs and as a presidential speech writer.

Jon Stewart – Years as a professional comedian with a strong emphasis in political humor/commentary, followed by his own talk show on MTV. Again, the MTV show wasn’t directly political satire/commentary, but it demonstrated his wit, point-of-view, etc etc.

Peter Jennings – your point is slightly closer to the mark here, except that he didn’t get where he was because of connections, he had a string of TV jobs that slowly led up to the top.

What I’m amazed by is that only one person here bought up Huffington Post – they’re horrible for letting any celebrity write a column. But at least with them, they’re opinion pieces, they don’t sent these people into the field as journalists.

As for the View, I don’t know any even mildly deep thinkers on the left or right that pay any attention to that fluff. And Caroline Kennedy is not finding much support at all – from the media or the Left – so good luck on using that as your straw man.

Jan 12, 2009 - 5:06 pm 114. EdGi:

There is nothing wrong with opinion journalism, which is what Joe is doing. It is wrong if you are deliberatly working for the other side, and our media has been doing both 1st ammendment protected opinion work as well as what should be prohibited Lord Haw Haw collaboration. Murrow, by the way, was not neutral fact reporting but a strong partisan maker of opinion who, in just one example, actually participated with Treasury Secretary Morganthau in pushing the draconian Morganthau Plan on the Administration.

Jan 12, 2009 - 5:35 pm 115. Mark Fradl:

veni:

yes, you’re right, the fact that you make a lot of money proves that you are smarter than me and that God likes you more. But golly, you saying that clearly you’re smarter and thus are more successful and richer than me, doesn’t that make you an evil elitist!

And no, paying the same percentage is not equally sharing the tax burden – equally sharing the burden is paying the exact same amount. If we decide to split the bill at dinner, would it be equal (fair) to split it down the middle (or pay for exactly what we ordered) or for each of us to pay a percentage of the bill based on our income?

But aside from that, you say we can exempt the waitress from paying taxes — well then, you do believe in spreading the wealth – rich people should have to pay and she shouldn’t. So once again, we’re not diagreeing on pinciples, just on how tactics i.e. how much more should the wealthy pay.

And even if this guy doesn’t use the many tools available to him to avoid paying the higher tax on his business/personal profit, he’s still getting a tax break on that first $250,000 in income – so at $260,000 in profit (don’t hold your breath for that to happen) he’s paying 3% more on 10,000 and less on the first $250,000

98% of small businesses make less than $250,000 –

But of course worry about money is just academic to a titan of industry such as yourself. We all anxiously await your next wise correction of my poor, illiterate scribblings.

Jan 12, 2009 - 5:42 pm 116. robotech master:

Dear 111. venividivici

Your post = WIN lol.

Jan 12, 2009 - 6:08 pm 117. Harsh Reality:

I would appreciate it if the neanderthals whose kneejerk reaction to seeing Joe criticized is to call someone (in this case, Jazz) an “elitist”, tried to bear in mind that Jazz was actually quite gentle to Joe in this article.

She could have been far more critical. She could have been more ruthless in her critique, pointing out, for instance, the lies that we know Joe has told, on camera, to millions of Americans. No, I’m not talking about his name or the license nonsense.

For the record, here are Joe’s lies (the ones we know about, anyhow):

1) “I’m thinking about buying my boss’s plumbing business.” [Told to Obama upon meeting him for the first time].

Joe made less than 40k last year, and owed taxes. He wasn’t buying any damn business and he knew it.

2) “The business makes 250k a year and your taxes will hurt me, won’t they?” [The very next sentence out of his mouth to Obama].

This is mens rea and actus reus (guilty mind, guilty action) on public display, proving that Joe is a dishonest person. Dummy Joe chose the figure of 250k because at that time, it was the amount chosen by Obama as the lower threshold for proposed tax increases. The company Joe worked for had a turnover of a little over 100k last year, something that Joe was fully aware of. This is CLEARLY a lie chosen to suit his purposes.

3) “I’m not registered under Joe Wurzelbacher, it’s under Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher.” [When asked by a reporter the next day why he isn’t registered under the name Joe Wurzelbacher.

This is who Joe Wurzelbacher is. A liar. He isn’t registered under EITHER name, and lied because he assumed that the reporter couldn’t find out either way.

This is who Joe really is. No spokesman to ‘massage’ things, no PR person to put just the right spin on his nonsensical remarks (”a vote for Obama is a vote for death to Israel”) just Joe, being Joe. Or Sam. Or Samuel. Or whatever.

The fact is, the guy YOU ARE ALL DESCRIBING, the decent ‘ordinary Joe’ who might come out of nowhere to outdo the evil media, doesn’t exist. There is only Wurzelbacher, a failure in everything he’s ever done, tried to do, or talked about trying to do. Author – failed. Country singer – failed. Congressman – talked about it but didn’t try. Charity organiser – same again.

He failed primarily because he didn’t put in any time. He didn’t put in any study. Any work. He made half-hearted stabs at them only because he’d been on TV and was used by the McCain campaign. The people who don’t fail at those things understand that you can’t just wake up in the morning and decide “today I’m gonna be a congressman”. It takes preparation, determination and endurance. I see none of those things in Joe, the man who woke up and thanks to Roger Simon, decided he’d become a war correspondent.

I see only an ignorant, opportunistic person whose only worthwhile act since meeting Obama was admitting that we “don’t want to know his knowledge of foreign affairs” because “he knows just enough to be dangerous”.

You’re right, Joe. Ignorance is dangerous. You should take your own advice and shut the hell up on all matters outside of plumbing.

Jan 12, 2009 - 6:29 pm 118. venividivici:

And no, paying the same percentage is not equally sharing the tax burden – equally sharing the burden is paying the exact same amount. If we decide to split the bill at dinner, would it be equal (fair) to split it down the middle (or pay for exactly what we ordered) or for each of us to pay a percentage of the bill based on our income?

As I would expect you to do, you’ve made a terrible analogy. First of all, dinner between friends is a voluntary transaction, not an involuntary transaction, as is the case with taxation. Secondly, the ability to monitor consumption in a dinner setting is feasible, whereas monitoring consumption of publicly-funded goods is not. Thirdly, even absent the ability to perfectly monitor consumption of publicly funded goods, it is intuitive (and I’m sure that this could be empirically validated, although I don’t have the data handy and don’t think it’s really worth my time to get it) that such consumption would scale with income (e.g., someone who is wealthy is more likely to benefit from law courts, not because courts are unfairly biased toward the rich but because the rich lead more complex lives than the poor and hence require the courts’ services more frequently. A poor person who isn’t a criminal may never see the inside of a courthouse during an entire lifetime), so keeping tax payments proportional to income is actually more fair than having all pay the same amount. Just because you’re fixated on dollar amounts as the marker of fairness, don’t try to make the rest of us subject to your own analytical limitations.

yes, you’re right, the fact that you make a lot of money proves that you are smarter than me and that God likes you more.

Let’s not forget my many degrees from better schools than you attended or my higher standardized test scores, etc., etc.

Jan 12, 2009 - 6:38 pm 119. Will:

Say what you will,but Joe reports what happens,not what he wants people to believe.

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:00 pm 120. Twill:

Who
What
Where
When
Why
How

That’s all Joe needs To include in his Reports to make it credible Journalism.

And some truth wouldn’t hurt.

(Jazz Shaw is a drip)

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:22 pm 121. Harsh Reality:

venividivici, your intellectual capacity is clear. I would, however, advise you not to go down the vulgar route of pointing out your superior education, income, etc.

That kind of thing is assumed. Don’t hand your adversary cheap points to score with.

Will, how the hell do you know what Joe reports?

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:29 pm 122. Larry Sheldon:

Not ERM?

Glad to hear that.

Go Joe!

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:38 pm 123. venividivici:

Harsh Reality:

venividivici, your intellectual capacity is clear. I would, however, advise you not to go down the vulgar route of pointing out your superior education, income, etc.

That kind of thing is assumed. Don’t hand your adversary cheap points to score with.

You’re right. I’m just playing around with him because the guy doesn’t have clue one about anything but talks like he’s got it all figured out.

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:52 pm 124. Oregon Conservative:

What a snotty, immature, lazy commentary.

Edward R. Morrow (who I watched as a child growing up on “Person to Person”) was a liberal snob who could assassinate the character of a decent public person with the best of the academic-snob crowd. In spite of CBS realizing they had to get rid of him, he has been revered by leftists and portrayed as someone to emulate in journalism.

He wouldn’t get past his first pilot today.

For our country’s sake let us hope that Joe Wurzelbacher will indeed NEVER be, or aspire to be, another Edward R. Morrow.

Jan 12, 2009 - 7:58 pm 125. Cybergeezer:

Man! I just got to this party and all the drugs and liquor are gone!
You people are lushes.

Jan 12, 2009 - 8:04 pm 126. ryukyu:

“Olbermann – For many years was a very respected and widely loved sports journalist/anchor/commentator. Yes, that’s quite different from politics but is certainly a career that demonstrates whether someone has wit, charisma, intelligence, and a unique point of view.”

http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/6607

That right there just made my night. I’m still laughing inside.

Jan 12, 2009 - 8:39 pm 127. Vince W:

Joe’s gonna do fine, for his particular side. It won’t matter how brilliant he is or gets, the left will pan him top to bottom. If they didn’t feel threatened, of course, they’d ignore him. They can’t, and won’t.

Joe’ll get better. A lot of “you know’s”, but if Joe looks at his own tape and takes notes, you’ll see less of the gaffs or “you knows” as time goes on.

Not bad for a first try. Better than watching anything on the mainstream, which by definition is unwatchable.

Jan 12, 2009 - 9:12 pm 128. Wendy:

I could give a rat’s ass about polish and shine. You can have it… give me facts and evidence any day of the week.

Jan 12, 2009 - 9:22 pm 129. paul_unalaska:

Comment #68 Fred: These folks work never ending days, they have to ask hard questions of folks who don’t want to answer them, they have to study court documents, they have to wait around for evasive people – they have to get lucky and then they have to be able to write it up in a relatively short burst of language.

-Display ‘1′ instance where Obama was given a ‘hard question?’ Obama is evasive and the MSM let it slide. You know it, I know it. Again, a journalist needs only a 2 year degree to go anywhere and everywhere. Don’t make it out anymore than what it is. You putting these folks on a pedestal has me reminiscing of Don Henley’s, ‘Dirt Laundry.’ For the most part, they’re phonies. Moreso in this day and age.

Comment #81 Patrick – The Israeli’s aren’t allowing the media into Gaza, smart guy. There’s a myriad of reasons.. pick one.

Comment #126 ryukyu, kudos on your Olbermann gem, The guy wasn’t ‘widely loved’ on Sportscenter. Olbermann had gone from 1 profession he had some knowledge (he’s no Dan Patrick!) of to another he knows next to nothing of.

Jan 12, 2009 - 10:48 pm 130. pub:

You’re the kind of mass media, editorialist, whatever that we’re talking about here. You’ve got to write an article to TELL people what they should think about Joe. Just report the news, for freak’s sake, and let us decide.

Jan 12, 2009 - 10:51 pm 131. James S.:

I’ve got to agree with the many comments above: how could he be worse than what we already have seen? You ask if we can count on him to be completely unbiased without journalistic credential. Considering how many reporters WITH journalistic credentials have shown themselves to be incredibly biased the credentials argument means nothing. Credentials mean nothing if they are not backed up with personal integrity. Unfortunately, this is not supplied in any news room or college journalism course. Let us sit back and watch to see if he has the nessesary traits to be a good journalist.

Jan 13, 2009 - 4:13 am 132. Tim:

For those old enough to remember: Ernie Pyle was no Edward R. Murrow (thank God.)

Jan 13, 2009 - 4:30 am 133. Charles Martel:

Just to echo what seems to be the prevailing attitude around these parts. So JTP is no Edward R. Murrow. Good. Best news I’ve heard all day. The folks in the media have done a bang-up job for the last forty years or so of ruining our country, JTP can’t do any worse. I can’t wait to have a member of the media actually use some common sense and ask actual questions, rather than just following a script. The sooner the MSM dies a gruesome death, the better for this country.

Jan 13, 2009 - 6:12 am 134. Judy, NYC:

i am weary of them all, christian iamapoor reporter, chief amongst them. i think joe is doing a fine job showing us what “just a little rocket” can do and nowhere have i read or seen that sderot has been suffering from these attacks for 8 years.

we have now quite a bit of history tracking this biased hysterical media frenzy. vastly overpaid corporate toadies, constantly congratulate themselves on their “reporting” while the public remains uneducated. their inability to inform is not surprising, with no scholarship in the subject at hand, precluding them from knowledge of the middle east, or even an intelligent guess.

joe’s battle against machine reportage is very important for us as a nation. instead of chirping well-trod canards, he is like our neighbor who comes back to tell us what he saw and heard, over coffee and cake, except we are there. he does it with respect for a democratic western society, lacking everywhere else, and without hubris or pretense.

in a world that could overflow the oceans if israel’s jew hating biased press, foreign and domestic, were dumped in it, i find joe, the traditional american everyman, quite engaging.

Jan 13, 2009 - 7:20 am 135. Mark Fradl:

ryukyu:

um… and that link proves? Look, you may not like Olberman, and I only half like him, but the fact remains that he was very popular as a sports anchor/commentator, which is the only point i was making – he didn’t get plopped into the MSNBC job out of the blue.

veni:
Wow, smugness and arrogance are always such attractive features, bet you’re a blast at a dinner party.

The crux of your argument is that people who are rich get more from the government and thus should have to give more into the system (same percentage, larger amount), so please explain to me – this poor, ignorant fool who can’t hope to match your intellectual feats – how you decide that the same percentage is enough? If, as you argue, rich people get more from the system, then why can’t one make the argument that they get SO much more from the system that they should pay a larger percentage of their income? Your argument is that it is a direct correlation, that one’s use of the government (or the benefits one derives from the government) is directly proportional to income – considering that the largest discretionary expenditure of government is for defense (which ostensibly protects our liberty and our lives, not our property) then how does that possibly scale with income?

Of course, despite your grand pronouncement that “it is intuitive that… such consumption would scale with income” it is not “intuitive” at all. Even if I grant your argument that the rich are more likely to use the courts, the poor are more likely to use public transportation, public parks (as opposed to expensive vacations or their own palatial back yard) Medicaid, earned income tax credit, the local library, food stamps, etc.

I believe that the rich have to pay more, and most people believe the rich have to pay more (as evidence by the lack of support for a Flat Tax) but it has nothing to do with benefits derived from the government.

bye now, for good.

Jan 13, 2009 - 8:31 am 136. Mike_K:

110. Mark Fradl:
OK…I’ll try again – can ANYONE here please give me any examples of things “Joe” has said that make you think he’s intelligent, straight talking, honest, or “average” (as if “average” is something to strive for now)

First, your understanding of economics is pretty weak; weaker than Joe’s.

Second, I saw him on Hannity and he did quite well on TV. Anyone who saw “Broadcast News” knows that is a skill that is hard to teach,. He seems to have it. His point of view will be a welcome contrast to the MSM, such as Time Magazine’s anti-Israel screeds the past few weeks.

Jan 13, 2009 - 9:35 am 137. John:

I immediately fored off an email to PJTV. This is the stupidest decision of all time. Pajamas media will be mocked for years for making “Joe the Plumber” a war correspondent.

And it doesn’t even matter if he’s great at it. The left and the MSM won’t even wqatch his reports, they will go straight to mocking him and the average citizen will pause a moment, think about it, and agree with them.

Who is the retard that thought this was a good idea? You just set the blogosphere back 5 years in credibility.

Jan 13, 2009 - 9:37 am 138. Pat J:

Joe lacks the credibility to be a journalist. Hell, he can barely speak English.

Jan 13, 2009 - 11:43 am 139. jerseyguy:

Joe was the only one to actually ask Obama a tough question during the campaign. So the way I see it, he’s far more qualified than any of the other ‘journalists’ out there.

I suspect whats really going on with the criticism aimed at him is that certain media types feel threatened. Being a journalist requires very little skill, other than perhaps being able to write a complete sentence or read a teleprompter. I work with them. They are among the dumbest, self-impressed people you’ll meet. So when its shown that anyone can do it, and that most journalists really dont have any special skills or insight, they get defensive.

Jan 13, 2009 - 11:50 am 140. spike:

“This is the stupidest decision of all time. Pajamas media will be mocked for years for making “Joe the Plumber” a war correspondent.”
————————-
sorry, John, if msnbc can plunk olbermann and matthews in front of a camera and call it ‘journalism’, PJM has NOTHING to worry about

Jan 13, 2009 - 12:29 pm 141. TommyD:

Oh PLEASE!
I saw the first video, Jtp is just a average guy, father, with average view points, pretty damn refreshing if you ask me.
For ANY so called journalist to be crying about this guy shows how pathetic the journo’s have become.
Are they that insecure, are they that scared to be shown up by an amature. Do they actually believe they are some lofty covenant out to save the world from ourselves and that no mere mortal can possibly tread on the same holy turf they toil on.
WHAT A JOKE ,
Get Over yourselves.
Who gives a Rat’s A** what this Shaw character or any other journalist think. The So Called Journalist do nothing all day and night but try to ram their own self serving viewpoints down John Q Public’s throat.
They have NO credibility with the public, they are just the last to realize that fact.
Kind of like Congress with their approval ratings in the teens they still think they are the sharpest tools in the shed.
cough…cough… Trust us I mean…we only caused this crisis ourselves but cough… Trust Me,..cough… ONLY WE know how to fix this crisis..cough…cough…just vote me back in to my cash cow and I PROMISE uhh well I Promise something … anything just let me stay here all safe in my little clubhouse….
If we had Real reporters in the U.S. half of the congressional members would be selling used cars right now because they would have been run out of D.C. on a rail.
Well what they all are a Legends in their Own Minds.
Throw all the “journalist” in a boat with their loving Congressional fan club and sink it in the middle of the Persian Gulf.
We can start over.
The U.S. would be better off for it.

Give ‘em Hell Joe….

Jan 13, 2009 - 1:35 pm 142. Gypsytda:

You really so sound envious & intimidated by Joe.
You immediately targetted his first cast, and criticized it. What was your first time in front of a camera like?
So do you know a secret society of amazing journalists.. your comment sounds really pretentious!

[We might expect him to have a command of, or at least a passing familiarity with the languages spoken by the locals. He should be well versed in the history of the conflict, the primary participants, and the leading power figures. Lastly, as a reporter, we would expect an engaging figure on camera, exuding competence and armed with excellent communication skills in his native tongue. Have we any signs of this?]

so were you looking for people to call you on this? or are you that must of a snob?

I was impressed by Joe confronting Obama with a very crucial question. Though he was attackedby the media (you obviously so cherish).. he did not cower, he did not hide, he did not attack.. he took a positive higher road!

Had he been on the ticket for president, I would have voted for Joe.. even with his “lack of experience” he has all the strength & qualities that this country once stood for! Obama simply has NO experience, just socialist values!

Jan 13, 2009 - 7:56 pm 143. Kurtlane:

I just watched a few recent Joe the Plumber reports. While he is not as slick as a regular reporter, that too can be a good thing.

Otherwise, it’s such a refreshing contrast when compared to the MSM and its endless boloney about poor Palestinians and those satanic Jews (I know thay don’t say it this way, but this is the meaning.)

I took a course in journalism, but I quit in the middle, because I couldn’t take so much hypocrisy. It was the most closeminded thing I’ve ever seen.

I’ve been to Israel twice, including the territories, I am in regular contact with people there, and I know you don’t need to be a journalist to know what pile of BS our MSM is making.

Go Joe, go!

Jan 14, 2009 - 3:04 am 144. chrisk:

When reporting on the Palestinian attacks on Israel, it would help to be a rocket scientist.

Jan 14, 2009 - 5:44 am 145. Pundit Joe:

Mr. Shaw, I have a question – Who else in the press corps meets your standard of Edward R. Murrow? It really doesn’t seem fair to compare Mr. Wurzelbacher to Edward R. Murrow when the vast majority of Big Media already miss that standard. So, I guess the next question is whether or not he will do worse than Big Media.

Considering the obvious bias and outright fabrication that takes place in today’s Big Media, I don’t see how Wurzelbacher could do any worse.

Is Joe’s trip a publicity stunt? Sure. Will it hurt the world of journalism and the greater good? I don’t think so. I don’t see how it could do any more damage than the current Big Media has already inflicted. My hope is that Joe might even do some good by letting folks know there is a market for a dissenting point of view.

If you are concerned with quality of reporting then Wurzelbacher may be the wrong target. He makes no claim of having been trained or of having experience. By contrast, Big Media tirelessly claims professionalism and accuracy when it is obvious to most that they rarely exhibit either trait. Which is the more deserving target for the kind of attention your post brings?

Jan 14, 2009 - 6:17 am 146. Raymond:

Journalists check from two independent sources?

Rather it seem that they prefer writing about stories where it is impossible to check another source so that free fantasy cannot be challenged.

Jan 14, 2009 - 7:27 am 147. Cybergeezer:

When Joe returns from Gaza, he’ll be an accomplished rocket surgeon.

Jan 14, 2009 - 8:23 am 148. El Gordo:

Joe Wurzelbacher may be a beginner and a bit rough around the edges, but he is no dummy. I find him quite likeable.

Given how many “old pros” degraded themselves during the last couple of months I don´t see what the damn problem is. He is no Murrow? He is no Matthews or Olberman either, thankfully.

Jan 14, 2009 - 2:13 pm 149. carmen collins-foran:

This web site is for idiots.No wonder Joe the non-plumber and definitely non-reporter works for it.

Jan 15, 2009 - 5:21 am 150. Cybergeezer:

I like Joe’s lean, mean, fat free style. I wonder what Joe’s eating there? I found the food a little strange. Not much Italian.

Jan 15, 2009 - 6:21 am 151. AnninCA:

I find it fascinating that someone who proposes to set standards for journalists, even citizen journalists, actually refers to late-night comics as proof of the pudding for his argument.

Simply amazing.

Jan 15, 2009 - 7:09 am 152. bobby b:

“He’s not good enough to sit with us!”

Oh, please.

What we all look for in our news is, news. A reporting to us of facts about things that have occurred outside of our direct view, so that when we form our own opinions, we can do so in an informed manner.

So, we look to reporters to be, essentially, stenographers.

But reporters like the “name up in lights” aspect of the profession too much, they like to think that we all read the front page of a paper because we yearn for the benefit of their own opinions, and they convince themselves that good writing skills qualify them to skip a couple of steps and simply tell us what’s good and bad in the world.

I don’t give a rat’s rear what Joe Blow, top reporter for the New York StarTribunePostTimes, thinks about whether we tax people unfairly, or about why we should open our borders, or about how Saddam was actually a misunderstood man of peace and vision. I don’t pick up a paper or turn on a news show because I want to be told what my opinion should be. I want raw data, and from that, I’ll form my own opinon.

You list this as how you think we think of reporters: “We might expect him to have a command of, or at least a passing familiarity with the languages spoken by the locals. He should be well versed in the history of the conflict, the primary participants, and the leading power figures. Lastly, as a reporter, we would expect an engaging figure on camera, exuding competence and armed with excellent communication skills in his native tongue.”

Actually, what we really want is a scrupulous regard for accuracy in both fact and tone, we want understandable and clear writing, and we want it in an ego-less package – we want the reporter’s presence to fade away and be replaced with the presence of knowledge that we didn’t have before.

Shaw wants to be the new game show host paradigm. He wants us to love and adore him, but he doesn’t feel he needs to give us any reason to do so beyond blessing us with his feelings. No thanks. Give me a Joe, stumbles and typos and all. With Joes out there gathering and relaying facts to me, at least I’ll know what I don’t know. With the present crop of Shaws, I have to – have to – assume I’m being spun, and so I’m better off not seeing them.

Jan 15, 2009 - 8:22 pm 153. Gary Thorington:

With all the talent that Chris Mathews, Keith, Jon Steward, and compare it to Joe supposedly have then why can’t they put out more accurate and views from all points? With this bontiful talent that these people have still fail to give the Israel point of view. They also ignore the Hamma’s dream of exterminating Israel. They never did quoate the PLO goal of driving Israel to the sea. They never admit that they want Israel and the West eliminated. People want the truth no matter how much talent and experience the left media has.

Jan 16, 2009 - 7:02 am 154. John Durante:

Wow. Now I understand why PM hired ‘Joe the War Reporter’ in the first place! The commentary on this site indicates that the average Pajamas Media reader is even LESS intelligent than the average Little Green Footballs reader.

Jan 18, 2009 - 6:16 am

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