52 Comments

1. Proud_Kafir7908:

Barack Saddam Hussein Osama, and leftards the world over, simply don’t get it. But how could they get it, or give the impression that they do, when they are either ignorant, or pretend to be ignorant, of the duty imposed upon the “true believers” who follow the example of Mahound and his imaginary alter-ego Allah, to wage jihad upon all “unbelievers” until islam rules the world?

Forcing Israel to become more vulnerable to Arab terrorism, either from the Arab squatters who live in Gaza and the West Bank, or from those who live in countries surrounding Israel, will do absolutely nothing to stop muslim violence against Coptic Christians in Egypt, Hindus in Pakistan and Bangladesh, Buddhists in southern Thailand (where monks and ordinary people, including many women, children and elderly individuals are gunned down on a daily basis); nor will it ever make muslims relinquish their “divine duty” of retaking lands ‘lost’ to infidels”, such as the Balkans, the Iberian Peninsula, Sicily, most of present-day India, huge chunks of Russia and the Ukraine, and all the territory conquered by muslim caliphs and sultans until their territorial expansion came to a halt at the Gates of Vienna on September 11, 1683. And, once this part of their mission is finished, the rest of the world, for that’s what islam teaches them. That’s what the Quran tells them; the supposedly eternal, immutable, never-to-be-doubted-or-questioned word of allah (the imaginary.)

Israel, the sole developed and non-backward, non-medieval nation in the Middle East, as Geert Wilders has precisely stated many times, is simply bearing the bulk of the jihadist efforts against Western Civilization and the rest of the civilized world. Surrounded by lands crawling with blood-thirsty barbarians, Israel’s military might is the only thing that keeps those enemies at bay. Were Israel to succumb to the efforts to destroy it, and the two-state solution would certainly make it a hell of a lot more vulnerable to them, the rest of us would suddenly see the aggression of the jihad around its borders move to targets a lot closer to Western Europe, India and America.

Jun 27, 2009 - 1:19 am 2. PatriotUSA:

Israel will likely have to choose between buckling still further, compromising its rights and jeopardizing its security, or bracing itself for ongoing, possibly ruinous discord with its ally.

Israel already has ruinous discord with it’s FORMER ally, the U.S. The mullah Obamaham and his band of anti semitic merry men and women have already seen to that. If Israel gives in anymore, then there will nothing left to stop the islamofacists nazis in their rush to destroy
Israel and sanitize the region of all Jews. No matter what Israel says or does, it will never be enough. Not for the islamosympathizing loser that is the POTUS or the arab world. Israel would do well to tell Obama, The G8 and EU to f–k themselves and mind their own business. Israel needs to handle this how it best works for Israel and the Jews who live there. However and by whatever means is what Israel must do. Whether they have the leadership to do this or not, that is what remains to be seen. We already know how the muslims and Islam will respond. Like they always do; with the spilling of blood and death to as many Jews as possible.

Jun 27, 2009 - 1:21 am 3. Lifeofthemind:

The Dry Bones cartoon blog summed this up a week ago better than words can.
Obama’s 3AM Phone Call

The refusal of many American Jews to recognize Obama for what he is reminds me of a term used by the Jesuits, “Invincible Ignorance.”

Jun 27, 2009 - 3:14 am 4. Lifeofthemind:

P. David Hornik does a nice summary of the facts regarding the legal status of the disputed territories and Israel’s settlements. For over 60 years the enemies of a jewish state have relied on rejection as a strategy. The response must be that actions have consequences. Refusal to make peace now must mean that you get less later. The Tamil Tigers rejected peace offers, they do not get to roll the clock back and demand a “do over.” The enemies of Israel do not deserve a “do over.”

Jun 27, 2009 - 3:48 am 5. "progressive"watch:

The whole thing is like talking and acting in some kind of crazy reality in which nothing Israel does affect the outcome but everyone is acting and talking as if it does.
The only thing Isreal can do is stop breathing,stop existing. Then the Moslims will fight the U.S. and each other. However,the crazy reality is the only one that Barack Obama will admit exists. He is not a person of sense and logic but an ideologic idiot.

Jun 27, 2009 - 5:12 am 6. sheesh:

Maybe if we were giving Iran $7 million a day in military aid we would feel like we had a right to expect a voice in their geopolitics.

Jun 27, 2009 - 7:59 am 7. David W. Lincoln:

As long as Israel successfully counters the gambits of the Oval Office, and
other assorted minions from Mordor, the forces of darkness will continue down the path of their destruction, oblivious to how wrong they are.

It irks them terribly to see authority which is timeless, and therefore rigid, instead of “it is right for me”.

Anything that holds the oppressors to a higher standard is simply verboten.

Jun 27, 2009 - 8:13 am 8. Daniel:

There are a few things that aren’t included in the article. The road map is not a signed binding agreement. Israel did not obligate itself to follow it, it verbally agreed with fourteen reservations. One of them was that they would not freeze building within existing communities.

One this no one seems to realize is that the issue of ownership predates the creation of the modern state of Israel. In the oldest Ottoman census we have, Jews were the majority religious group in Jerusalem, and they owned large portions of the land in what is commonly referred to as the west bank. There were major jewish residential communities in the west bank before they were forced to flee by the jordanians in the 1948 war. The people who live in the west bank today are people who own that land based on titles issues in Ottoman times.

If Israel tells people they can’t build on land that is privately owned, those people could easily sue. In cases where Israel has told people it could not for security reasons, there have been large fines by the courts. Just to pull out of Gaza, was billions of dollars. In the West Bank, we are talking hundreds of billions of dollars. Where is that money supposed to come from? The Israeli government certainly doesn’t have it.

The Gaza pullout was indirectly funded by the U.S., thought the installation of a very expensive radar installation. Clinton had originally said the U.S. would fund an Israeli/Palestinian final status agreement, but I am not sure if that will happen in the current economic climate. Also, the legal problems Israel has with limiting construction are just what the U.S. would have if it tried to do this, imagine if the U.S. wanted to tell an ethnic group they couldn’t build in D.C. on land they had owned for 100 years? The legal issues are exactly the same, and any government decision that was not part of a partition treaty would likely be overturned. The Israeli courts have allowed the government to restrict building in certain areas only for military necessity and as part of an agreement to redraw borders.

Those are the easy issues (amazing isn’t it?). Here is the really hard one, and it gives you some insight into why Israelis think of Judea and Samaria as separate areas rather than one West Bank. Most of the land owned by the Israelis in Samaria is not from Ottoman times with the exception of the city of Ariel, and there is not that much so sorting out borders in Samaria will be easier. Most of the land owned by Israelis in the Judea (roughly the southern portion of the West Bank) was purchased in Ottoman times and the deeds trace to that government. These lands are mainly surrounding Jerusalem and were purchased mostly in the 18th to 19th century. From census records, we know there was a Jewish majority in Jerusalem from at least the 18th century, but likely further back (many Jews were killed by the crusaders and the Jewish population of Jerusalem took several centuries to recover, but there are no census records).

This is where is starts to get complicated, when the Jordanians invaded in 1948, they forced people off privately held land in an act that Israel views as illegal. The Jordanians declared all privately held Israeli land as state owned, and sold some of it to private residents.

When Israeli retook the area in 1967, it did not recognize Jordans seizure of land. So when you hear about Palestinians angry about Israelis building on “their land,” it doesn’t mean the Israeli’s don’t have title. In most cases they do. To get a building permit under Israeli law, you have to show title, just like in the U.S. However, in many areas where Israelis have title to the land based on purchase in Ottoman times, Palestinians have title based on Jordanian seizure. Houses in the area surrounding Jerusalem sell for around 150 – 200K USD. They mainly look like what you would see in a lower middle class U.S. area. I can’t think of an exact location it reminds me of the U.S., the building style uses less land, it is more like Europe – maybe areas of outside London but with stone instead of brick. However, we are talking huge areas of land. I would estimate hundreds of billions of dollars of land and buildings have been double titled in an economy that is probably $150 billion a year. This is why the issue can only be settled marking a permanent border. In that situation, they are areas of unused state land that could be allocated to both Israelis and Palestinians who have deeds to land they can’t build on because of border issues. Built up Jewish areas in the Judea and Samaria could also likely be swapped for built up Muslim areas in Israel.

As an American student visiting Israel, I am shocked by the difference between what I actually see here, and what I expected to see based on news reports. You see a map with the line that says West Bank that runs through Jerusalem, but you get here and you would have no idea where that line is. The only line that is actually here is the border fence. When you actually live here, and there is this giant fence, that becomes the border in your head. The people who were born here, who were born in Israeli communities in the West Bank. They think of that as theres. It is like being born in California (I am from California). Sure I know it was once owned by Mexico, and the U.S. got it in a war, but I still think of it as mine. I was born there, I can buy a house where I want. That is the way Israelis and Palestinians both think about the same areas of land. Nothing short of a treaty and a fence is going to change that picture in peoples heads. I think they have to have a border fence just to give people and idea of ownership of “their area” and lack of ownership over “the other’s area.” Without that, both groups will feel like they own both sides, and there will never be peace short of one group being kicked out.

Jun 27, 2009 - 8:24 am 9. Strawman:

This is the new “Jewish Question”.

Jun 27, 2009 - 8:26 am 10. hangnail:

What do you expect from a crypto-communistic,pinko,toilet licking,democratic,son of bitch!

Jun 27, 2009 - 8:47 am 11. ic:

Unfortunately the Jews love lives too much to strap a homicidal belt to their youngsters and blow up unknown bystanders, and too civilized to threaten the Muslims with the nuke, ergo, no respects for the Jews.

Jun 27, 2009 - 10:20 am 12. sheesh:

10 Hangnail . . . He who would be scat king!

Jun 27, 2009 - 10:20 am 13. Steve:

They do not like us (United States or Israel) and even if it P.O.s Russia then it might be time to take action in taking out the nuclear facilities, and we have the capability as does Israel.

As the saying goes stand for something or you will fall for anything, and it seems that we are falling both with North Korea and their insane leader as well as the insane president and mullahs of Iran.

Hopefully the military of this country can do something after telling our coward in charge that this is the action that is necessary at this time in history, if not perhaps rebellion should take place especially after the recent action of an out of control congress led by a liar Nancy Pelosi with the “Cap and Trade” or “Energy Bill”.

Jun 27, 2009 - 10:23 am 14. Thomas L......:

So according to shush, if my neighbor is a murdering thug, I shouldn’t or can’t say anything in condemnation unless I actively subsidize him. More of his, now to be expected, foolishness.

Jun 27, 2009 - 11:05 am 15. abi:

BO “The puppet king”..is not who he wants us to blieve he is…a christian american…and it shows, open your eyes…and see who he really is and where he is leading us and the world..

Jun 27, 2009 - 1:46 pm 16. David W. Lincoln:

I have a request. Is it possible for links in future entries about Iran, to include Brigitte Gabriel? As well as Walid Shoebat, and those who were in Oslo in May for the Freedom Forum.

Thank you.

Jun 27, 2009 - 2:12 pm 17. Cathoir:

Yes, strong words against Iran will save the world. Similar to before, they will immediately cow before our righteous condemnations and all will be right if only BHO would publicly denounce them. Better yet, let’s “stay the course” set by the last administration and just denounce the entire country as part of an axis of evil instead of making a more serious effort to separate the hard-line elements and ruling theocracy from the progressives. They certainly wont use our words to fuel their propaganda and focus issues on the “evil west” instead of their inept medieval regime.

Seriously, how can conservatives be so right about domestic policy while being ridiculously stupid when it comes to diplomacy?

Jun 27, 2009 - 2:50 pm 18. sheesh:

14. Thomas L……: . . . ‘Not even close. I was commenting on why America/Obama has a right to expect a voice in the geopolitics of Israel. Had nothing whatsoever to do with Iran. I could just as easily say you believe we should stop providing aid to Israel because we could have a voice anyway.

Nice try, though. Save your backflips for someone who can’t see them.

Jun 27, 2009 - 4:28 pm 19. JFM:

If money is what gives America rights over Israel then why is Huseein Obama not meddling in Palestinian matters (60 years and c ounting living on Western money) and why is Sheesh saying nothing (BTW, basing on the Gaza operation for Shesh ione dead by Istrel is a genocide, amilliobn in Darfur, small loss).

Jun 27, 2009 - 5:19 pm 20. Jim Baker:

Since the president has more in common with the followers of Islamic despots than with a bunch of repugnant Jews, what does anyone expect him to do? Sheesh. Isreal, do the deed soon. Boobily will make a speech, but that is all he will ever do.

Jun 27, 2009 - 6:40 pm 21. bruce:

The West Bank and Gaza Ghetto are Occupied Territories according to international law and countless resoultions Israel has continuously ignored.Only “disputed” in The minds
of Israel and her supporters.
It is important to note that these illegal settlements are exclusively Jewish,and are connected by roads that are also exclusive.The IDF supports the whole ROTTEN system and is let loose on the Non Jewish captive Palistinian populace corralled in Israel designed Ghettos.The Aim is to make the lives of these Non Jew so insuferable as to drive them off their lands and bring in Jewish Israelis.
Now if you build an Apartheid society not too many would argue it’s wrong,but the Israeli model is Funded buy things like tax free Israel Bonds and other slippery financial intsruments with origins MOSTLY in these United States.
Furthermore,Israel receives over $10 million a day in US DOLLARS that we know of.Unique in the annals of US foriegn aid:US “CASH” is deposited in the Israeli treasury at the begining of each year,and the US tapayer pays the interest on that Borrowed money.Israel invests in turn that New money and collects interest.How sweet ’tis.
According to the Christian Science Monitor,the cost of Israel to the American TAXpayer has been over $1.3 TRILLION since 1973.
I do not see how the US can tell Isael anything!!!!!!!!!

Jun 27, 2009 - 7:26 pm 22. Jim Baker:

Bruce,
The West Bank and Gaza were taken by Isreal when they were attacked in concert by four countries. They also took the Sinai peninsula from the Egyptians, who attacked them from that location. They also took the Golon Heights from the Syrians, who attacked them from that location. The West Bank was taken from Jordan, who used that spot to launch their attack. Gaza was a set aside for the 20,000 or so displaced Palestinians, and they feebly tried to attack Israel from there. When the war was over, in 7 days, the international community went to work condemning Israel with your countless resolutions. The UN was as useless then as it is today.
By the way, Gaza is presently occupied by the Palestinians.

Jun 27, 2009 - 8:55 pm 23. Laura:

Is there any Israeli leader with the moral courage to stand up for his country’s rights and start behaving like the leader of a sovereign nation? Why couldn’t Bibi simply tell the muslim sympathizer occupying the White House where he can shove his demands? That pusillanimous hypocrite won’t dare confront those isamo-nazi mullahs in Iran because he doesn’t want to interfere in their internal affairs and says he respects the sovereignty of Iran. Yet where is the respect for Israel’s sovereignty? Why is Israel the only country where its alright to meddle in their internal affairs? Why won’t this president get tough with dictatorships in Iran, Syria and North Korea, but instead reserves his display of toughness with an ally, Israel?

Jun 27, 2009 - 9:21 pm 24. Laura:

Eugene Rostow, one of the architects of Resolution 242 said that Jewish settlement is NOT illegal. Did you actually bother to read the article? Here is the relevant passage:

“Indeed, Eugene Rostow, the late U.S. legal scholar and diplomat who played the leading U.S. role in negotiating 242, wrote in 1991 that:

[T]he Jewish right of settlement in Palestine west of the Jordan River, that is, in Israel, the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip … has never been terminated and cannot be terminated except by a recognized peace between Israel and its neighbors … the Jews have the same right to settle [in the West Bank] as they have to settle in Haifa”.

So Bruce, you don’t know what the hell you are talking about.

Jun 27, 2009 - 9:24 pm 25. Laura:

Also Bruce, the US does not GIVE Israel anything. It provides loans to Israel on the condition that Israel purchases military hardware from America.

Jun 27, 2009 - 9:25 pm 26. sammy:

Bruce’s new facts are 100% inaccurate

Jun 27, 2009 - 9:30 pm 27. Michael Lonie:

Well Bruce, if it was not for liaison with Israel the US would probably have almost no intel about the Middle East, and little more about much of the rest of the world. It was Israel who got hold of Krushchev’s Secret Speech in 1956 and passed it to the US, for example. Israel has been providing intel and training to US troops for anti-terror operations. Israel help to the US goes back a long way and continues to this day.

Do not think that if we turn on Israel and help her enemies that we will garner any friends for doing so. We will earn only justified contempt for ratting on and betraying an ally and friend. It would show the US as a power marked by weakness and treachery, one no other country can rely on. We did that to South Vietnam and Cambodia already, we ought not to make a habit of such betrayals.

The Arabs in Israel gave their own opinion about living under the PA versus Israel when they protested being put under the PA a couple of years ago. They may not like being in a country where Jews are the majority, but they want even less to be ruled by thuggish kleptocrats like Fatah and Hamas.

If the Pali Arabs were not attacking Israel and trying to kill Jews they would have nothing to fear from Israel. It is not the Israelis who stand in the way of a Pali state, it is the Arabs themselves. Every chance they have had for a state the Pali Arabs have thrown it petulently away, like two year olds protesting against eating strained carrots.

As for land, if you start a war to destroy a country and commit genocide on its people, as the Arabs did, and lose, as the Arabs did, you may expect to lose some land as a result. You should be thankful if you don’t lose more. Anyone in doubt about this should go to Poland and look for signs of German habitation in what used to be East Prussia and Silesia.

The Arabs will have peace and a state if they want it. So far they show that they do not want it, they want to kill Jews instead. This is the reality Obama and his Arabist chums in the administration are overlooking or unable to comprehend. Their fixation on the “Palestine” issue is myopic. It will not be solved while Iran has a say in it, and is not the key to any other problem in the region. The causation runs the other way, for the most part.

Jun 27, 2009 - 9:35 pm 28. sambo:

this propaganda is likely written by a muslim propagandist, and consistent with that, ignores the very article it is commenting on. The Christian world is solidly behind Israel’s self-defence.

Jun 27, 2009 - 9:36 pm 29. Oscar the Grump:

Bruce
What world are you living in? Go over there and check things out, that means stay there for a while. I’ve seen many people go over there and come back with another opinion. Give yourself a year on site and see if you still hold the same opinions.

Jun 27, 2009 - 10:05 pm 30. Scott:

Maybe its time for Israel to begin dancing with Russia. For real or for a tease. Geopolitics makes strange bedfellows. Obama’s a fool. Israel has lots of friends that will show themselves in the US after the 2012 elections.

Jun 27, 2009 - 10:35 pm 31. hangnail:

#12 Sheesh: Give me a break man. I can’t help it if I excel in the field of scatology. After all I did grew up in rectum of the world,Philadelphia Pa.
What do you think bubba,should I consider changing my “nom de guerre?” How about,the hemerroid,or scatologist.

Jun 27, 2009 - 11:26 pm 32. hangnail /scat king:

Hey sheesh,let me edit the above entry. Change grew to grow and insert “the” before rectum.

Jun 27, 2009 - 11:45 pm 33. Daniel:

Calling the West Bank occupied ignores several things. First, Jerusalem is part of the West Bank, and Jerusalem has as a Jewish presence for thousands of years. The 19th century Ottoman census indicated a Jewish majority. Second, a lot of land in the West Bank has been owned by Jews for generations. This isn’t a foreign people expanding into a neighboring area, this is two people who lived in an area that was part of the Ottoman empire. Now there is a struggle over partition. The Israelis aren’t foreign occupiers. Israel is the state of the Jews, and the Jews have a thousands year old connection with this area. Most people in the United States are aware that there was a connection (2000 – 3500) years ago. Fewer are aware of the Jewish presence in Israel during the last 1,500 years. One of my college professors was actually shocked when I produced sources noting the Jewish majoring within Jerusalem in the 19th century Ottoman census. He had to raise my grade to an A after the fact.

Jun 28, 2009 - 12:02 am 34. Laura:

Yes indeed, why is the term “occupied” thrown around so easily? Who’s territory exactly is being occupied? Before Israel was in control, Jordan occupied the west bank which is actually Judea and Samaria. Only two countries, England and Pakistan recognized Jordan’s occupation. In 1967 Jordan along with other Arab nations initiated a war against Israel and Israel gained Judea and Samaria along with Gaza, the Golan Heights, the Sinai which has since been given back to Egypt. So how does gaining territory in a war of self-defense constitute an “occupation” of that territory and considering the territory was never a sovereign entity to begin with? Again I ask who’s territory is being occupied here?

Jun 28, 2009 - 8:57 am 35. JFM:

About international law, occupied territories and UN.

The only law I bow in front of, is the law who has been voted in a democratically elected Parlimant. Everything voted by a body who has elected genocidical Sudan, Iran, China to the Human Rights comitee, who has elected to its presidency someone as despicable as Kofi Annan, from oil for food fame but also facilitator of Rwanda genocide. A body whetre people as repugnant as Ahmedinajad, Sudan’s junta, Kim Jon Il, a few decades ago canibal Idi Amin Dada, the Saudi “king” and twenty Arab dictators (wpould you consider norman that a jury included memebers of victim’s por perpetrator’s family) can vote has no legitimacy to bind anyone.

UN delenda est and its building should be blown apart so no trace of its filth could ever be found again.

Jun 28, 2009 - 10:50 am 36. naftali:

Everyone is handling The World According To Bruce quite well. Israel is indeed strengthening relationships with other countries and they can do that because Israel has immense knowledge about agriculture, medicine, and technology. Folks like Bruce better not get sick because if they do there is, oh, about 100% chance some part of their treatment will be the result of Israeli discoveries or Israeli technology. Of course, if Bruce wants to be a suicide/murderer bomber, that’s technology from the ‘indigenous organic culture’ that Israel has allowed to flourish in what was Jordan before the 1967 war.

Jun 28, 2009 - 1:15 pm 37. Gary Rosen:

Thomas L, it has nothing to do with money – sheesh is a Jew-hater, pure and simple. Here is a link to the thread where he suggests Jews have it coming:

http://tinyurl.com/ofgo9w

Jun 28, 2009 - 2:01 pm 38. sheesh:

37 Gary Rosen . . . resident neoconpoop

By all means, go to that link and tell me where the anti-Semitism is.

Jun 28, 2009 - 3:20 pm 39. Gary Rosen:

Bwahaha… sheesh tries to deny his antisemitism but his bigotry is too compulsive to keep from using the code words.

“tell me where the anti-Semitism is”

#111

Jun 28, 2009 - 3:46 pm 40. sheesh:

39 Gary Rosen . . . Geez Louise, you’re even denser than I imagined . . . and I have a very good imagination.

Just to be specific, in #111 I stated, “At some point you folks have to wonder, “Why is everyone against us?””

I think it’s obvious to everyone who actually wakes up before they read that I was referring to conservatives whining that the mean old liberal establishment is against them . . . even National Geographic is anti-Christian and anti-American and anti-Israel! It’s a victimhood beyond all reason. And so I said, “At some point you folks have to wonder, “Why is everyone against us?”

The key words there are “you folks” which specifically identifies who I was addressing – the conservative posters at PJM.

So, after lo these many accusations of anti-Semitism by Rosenclown, THIS is his proof? I know I’ve destroyed you many times in the past around here, but if you really want to seek revenge, you have to do a lot better job than that. As for code words, i would’nt know what they are if I wanted to use them. Perhaps you can enlighten us as to the ways of the bigot.

Jun 28, 2009 - 4:04 pm 41. Lifeofthemind:

Do not feed the troll.

Jun 28, 2009 - 6:11 pm 42. Jim Baker:

sheesh,
Since no one reads while they are asleep, I assume that was another clever liberal swipe at people who don’t share their opinions.
Since I am not a victim of anything coming from you and since I am conservative, I know you can’t mean all conservatives are whiners.
Since “you folks” must mean that you don’t consider yourself to be included in the category of being folk of some kind, what are you. Unless there is a group of “we folks” that is different than “you folks”, in which case, who are we folks specifically. We folks can’t be the conservatives posters at PJM, because I am a member of that group and well, prevent my redundancy by reading again the preceeding.
Now for my question. Exactly how do you make the assumption that a totally unworthy adversary in the face of your obviously superior debating skills, can enlighten you on the subject of bigotry?

Jun 28, 2009 - 7:26 pm 43. Gary Rosen:

“I think it’s obvious to everyone who actually wakes up before they read that I was referring to conservatives”

I figured you’d try to weasel out, since you are, after all, a weasel. The entire thread was about antisemitism and the only logical reference for that statement was Jews.

As for code words, everyone in the world except apparently sheesh the genius knows that “neocon” is an antisemitic code word for Jews. Are you seriously going to try to deny that? Actually, I’m sure you will but you will only prove once again what liar, fool and bigot you are.

Jun 28, 2009 - 10:09 pm 44. katablog.com:

But Honduras is a different story apparently

Jun 29, 2009 - 5:36 am 45. David W. Lincoln:

Cathoir, why then did France send troops into Spain? One source is, “The pit and the pendulum” by Edgar Allan Poe.

One thing that you exclude, whether it is deliberate or accidental, is the Sakharov premise:
How governments treat their own people is in line
with how they treat citizens of other countries.

So, are you unwilling or unable to accept this?

Jun 29, 2009 - 6:03 am 46. sheesh:

42 and 43 . . . Your bare-naked idiocy is all the proof I need. If I were you, Miss Rosen, I’d spend more time conjuring up a rationale for your defense of pedophiles. I think that is a bit more problematic for you.

Jun 29, 2009 - 8:05 am 47. Gary Rosen:

Since sheesh doesn’t have an answer for me, he has essentially admitted he’s an antisemite. Therefore from now on he should be referred to as the admittedly antisemitic sheesh.

In line with his antisemitism, he uses Hitler’s “big lie” technique. Where have I “defen[ded] pedophiles”, sheesh? I had a link to prove what I said about you.

Jun 29, 2009 - 8:23 am 48. Professor Guvinoff:

@ Daniel, #8, #33.

Thanks for bringing facts into the conversation. I have a dear neighbor who is an arab born in “Jordan”, a.k.a. “the West bank”. He just left the area to make his life in america, where he has a good career, and married a japanese woman. He saw the absurdity of the situation, recognized the lack of opportunity, and decided that the best way to handle it was to leave it behind. Smart move!

I would not be surprised if I met other smart arabs who have done similar things, for the same set of reasons. They may be accused of treason by a great many arabs, but they have recognized the wisdom of focusing their energy on problems they can solve instead of spinning their wheels on utopian pursuits, and making everyone else miserable in the bargain.

Jun 29, 2009 - 8:45 am 49. sheesh:

Gary Rosen . . . Well, I’m glad you’re showing a LITTLE contrition for your despicable defense of those child molesters out there. Maybe you were just being sarcastic or ironic or whatever, but you have to be careful Not everybody recognizes that kind of thing.

Jun 29, 2009 - 4:59 pm 50. Gary Rosen:

sheesh – once a compulsive liar, always a compulsive liar. One of the best things about being Jewish is that antisemites are always nitwits, misf*cks and born losers like sheesh.

Jun 30, 2009 - 1:16 am 51. sheesh:

50 Gary Rosencrantz . . . Don’t go weak on us. You’re making progress. I’m telling you, that angry sarcasm thing can backfire on you. Be careful. The world will forgive you soon enough. Hey, look, they forgave Michael Jackson. And he actually DID the molesting rather than just DEFEND it like you, so I think your chances are pretty good.

By the way, watch your mouth, There’s no need for searing around here. There are children who read this stuff. You wouldn’t want to . . . never mind.

Jun 30, 2009 - 7:12 am 52. Violet:

We (USA) give a lot of tax dollars to Israel, so, therefore, we have a greater say in what they do.

Jul 3, 2009 - 10:12 pm