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Obama’s Campaign Gets a ‘Do-Over’
Voters are almost certain to embrace Obama's belated but harsh criticism of the racist and conspiratorial wackiness espoused by Rev. Wright. Was that the intent all along?
Two wrongs don’t make a right, but for Barack Obama a second chance to deal with the radical rantings of his preacher may put his suddenly faltering campaign back on track.
When Reverend Jeremiah Wright’s vitriolic sermons gained national attention a month ago, Obama was reluctant to disavow him. He danced around what he knew, what he had heard and not heard from the pulpit over the past twenty years at Trinity United Church of Christ, and whether he ever confronted Wright about his sermons. By mishandling the affair, Obama provided an opening that Hillary Clinton and her team were quick to exploit.
Obama got a second chance this week when Wright gave a series of high profile speeches and interviews. He made the most of his “mulligan” by clearly and unequivocally denouncing his former pastor. “I am outraged by the comments that were made and saddened by the spectacle that we saw,” Obama announced at a press conference in North Carolina a day after Wright’s incendiary presentation to the National Press Club.
“The person that I saw yesterday was not the person that I met 20 years ago,” he said. “His comments were not only divisive and destructive, but I believe that they end up giving comfort to those who prey on hate, and I believe that they do not portray accurately the perspective of the black church. They certainly don’t portray accurately my values and beliefs. I gave him the benefit of the doubt in my speech in Philadelphia, explaining that he has done enormous good in the church,” Obama told an audience in Winston-Salem. “But when he states and then amplifies such ridiculous propositions as the U.S. government somehow being involved in AIDS; when he suggests that Minister Farrakhan somehow represents one of the greatest voices of the 20th and 21st century; when he equates the U.S. wartime efforts with terrorism — then there are no excuses. They offend me. They rightly offend all Americans. And they should be denounced, and that’s what I’m doing very clearly and unequivocally here today.”
Obama’s rejection of his former preacher will evoke some outrage among a narrow minority of those who think Wright is right, but the broader range of American voters are almost certain to embrace Obama’s harsh criticism of the racist and conspiratorial wackiness espoused by Wright. Was that the intent all along, or has Obama simply taken advantage of the opportunity to have a “Sister Souljah” moment?
In 1992 hip-hop artist and political activist Sister Souljah was asked during a Washington Post interview about the riots in Los Angeles that occurred in the wake of the acquittal of police officers who had beaten black motorist Rodney King following a high speed chase. Souljah noted that “black people kill black people every day; why not have a week and kill white people.”
A few weeks later, Presidential candidate Bill Clinton was speaking at a Rainbow Coalition conference hosted by Jesse Jackson and used a portion of his speech to attack Souljah’s comments. Although Jackson and other black leaders criticized Clinton for his position, the repudiation of the racist statement by Souljah allowed Clinton to demonstrate to moderate voters, both black and white, that he was not going to pander to Jackson and the extremist elements in the black community.
Obama has essentially accomplished the same thing with his denunciation of Wright. And this time he did not have to throw his grandmother under the bus to do it. Wright is not likely to disappear from the debate over race in the months ahead, but, by taking full advantage of his “do-over,” Obama will now be able to stop the bleeding and close the deal for the Democratic Party nomination.
Steve Gill is a political analyst and statewide radio talk host in Tennessee. His website is www.gillreport.com.
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87 Comments
1. Stuffing Under the Bus, for Sport and Pleasure « Obi’s Sister:[...] Was the whole thing orchestrated? Steve Gill for PJM says: Was that the intent all along, or has Obama simply taken advantage of the opportunity to have [...]
Apr 30, 2008 - 4:33 am 2. huxley:It depends. It could be a Sister Souljah moment for Obama to denounce and separate from Wright decisively, and put pastorgate behind him. The problem is that, unlike Clinton, Obama has a long, close relationship with this Pastor “Souljah” and has defended him once already.
Personally I don’t believe Obama when he says that he has never seen this side of Wright before and I am surprised by the nakedness of Wright’s attack upon Obama. Either Obama is lying or he is a stunningly poor judge of character. Since Obama is selling himself–in the absence of experience and accomplishments–on the basis of his honesty and judgment, it seems to me that this Souljah moment is at best a wash in its effect on his campaign. Or it may, as Victor Hanson says, render Obama unelectable in November.
Apr 30, 2008 - 6:24 am 3. Linda:Reverend Wright, in his most recent press tour, has said nothing new, only expounded on his past hate speech. I believe what got Obama so fired up and angry this time is the fact that Wright referred to him as a typical politician for denouncing Wright’s prior statements, saying what politicians need to say to get elected. Now, and only now does Obama find him so distasteful that he finds the need to distance himself from this man.
My feeling about Obama is that he is calculating, weak, and of poor judgement. He is calculating in that he chose that church for political gain, weak because he knew what that man was saying and chose to act ignorant of it – weak and calculating because when confronted with Wright’s hate speech, rather than separating himself from the man and the black liberation ideology, he chose the path of least resistance, admonishing Wright but at the same time defending him, so as to not offend his black voters. He has shown poor judgment for all of the above. He simply cannot and should not be the leader of our country.
Apr 30, 2008 - 6:26 am 4. Ciscokid:I don’t agree on the do over. 20yrs is to long a time belonging to Trinity church, not to absorb & beleive the theology. Obama wrote of his thoughts in his book. Obama clearly stated – “It is this world, a world where cruise ships throw away more food in a day than most residents of Port-au-Prince see in a year, where “white folks” greed runs a world in need, apartheid in one hemisphere, apathy in another hemisphere…That’s the world! On which hope sits!” Obama – White folks greed runs the world in need? Rev Wrights mentoring of Obama, either convinced him white folks are the real enemy of the world or Obama brought it with him when he joined the church. Either way – No do over on this one.
Apr 30, 2008 - 6:43 am 5. rvastar:As I posted in the thread “A Defining Moment for Obama”:
This whole thing is an absolute sham: a coordinated media operation dreamed up by Team Obama/Wright.
Think about it…
1) Clips of Wright surface making statements that rightly offend huge segments of the American voting population.
2) In an effort to “move on”, Obama tries the typical Leftist tactics of moral equivalency and “yeah, but..”
3) The Rev “retires” and disappears from sight.
4) Weeks go by, the story still has legs, and polling shows that people aren’t simply going to let Obambi pass on this, no matter how much he tries to slide away from it (e.g. by throwing his own grandmother under the bus).
So, no one except leftist newspapers and leftist blogs felt the earth move when he gave his “race speech”. Average people saw it for it was…a politician trying to explain away why he sat in the pews of that church for 20 years, listening to a minister like Wright excoriate this nation. And they weren’t buying it. He had his chance to outright denounce Wright, but he blew it.
So what do we do now?
Hmmmmmmm…
I’ve got it! Let’s have Wright suddenly come out of hiding, embark on a media blitz where he really opens the crazy valves to “Full!”, then Obambi can come out and get the denunciation right this time!
This is the most shameful political ploy I’ve ever witnessed. That these people have the b@lls to stage it is utterly breathtaking.
Mark my words: by this weekend, you’re going to see the American public saturated with messages stating that “with his strong denunciation of Wright, Obama has laid this scandal to rest once and for all” and “it’s time for us all to move on to more pressing concerns” and “the only people who still care about this are right-wing nuts!”
Don’t fall for it people…this is nothing but political theatre of the most nauseating sort.
Apr 30, 2008 - 6:51 am 6. Bill Bradley:You’re correct, Steve. Good radio show, incidentally, I’ve enjoyed the times I’ve been on it.
Meanwhile, of course, John McCain, the only Republican who could win, is laughing about all this mishegoss.
But for the fact that he’s not doing as well as he should be given all the Dem psychodrama.
Apr 30, 2008 - 7:06 am 7. Hogarth:Good, glad this is cleared up. Now will someone please ask him about Tony Rezko and see how he feels about that? Can we ask how much of my pie the lovely Ms. Obama wants to take?
Apr 30, 2008 - 7:14 am 8. jeanie:With such a strong odor of bulls**t around Obama, I’ll bet huxley meant to say “pasture gate.”
Apr 30, 2008 - 7:16 am 9. dirigible:Obama is developing a history of only coming clean and flying right after he’s caught with his pants down. Yet another President who perpetually skirts around the edge of what he thinks he can get away with would be too Clintonian for my tastes.
If Obama had said something like his latest back in Philadelphia, he might have had a chance to head the Wright imbroglio off and cram the demon back in the bottle. But now he’s too obviously saying what Wright himself claims he “has to say.”
In Philadelphia, Obama said too little. Now he’s said enough, but too late.
Apr 30, 2008 - 7:19 am 10. macey:I have a good idea. Let’s get the MSM to start playing clips of Rev. Hagee’s negative comments; especially regarding Catholics. Then let’s ask John McCain to publicly denounce Hagee. Then let’s ask McCain why he thought Hagee had a significant enough influence that he would ask for his endorsement. How about putting some clips of Hagee’s negative statements on your website.
Apr 30, 2008 - 7:27 am 11. J.J. Sefton:My gut tells me that Irreverend Wright will not just go quietly into that good night. He has been thrown under the bus by one of his own, and I would bet (and hope) that tomorrow’s headlines have him confirming in no uncertain terms that Barry-O was in the front pew for every one of his sermons – awake, alert and shouting ‘hallelujahs’ and ‘hoseannas’ after every sentence. Chickens comin’ home to roost indeed!
BTW: Did Bill Bradley really write “mishegoss” (sic)??!!
Apr 30, 2008 - 7:37 am 12. J.J. Sefton:Assuming it is the former Senator.
Apr 30, 2008 - 7:38 am 13. mk:When he refers to “those who prey on hate” why do I get the impression that he means “typical white people” and not the racists sitting in the racist church?
Apr 30, 2008 - 7:54 am 14. Sean:Macey
Once again you leftists miss the point: Hagee is not McCain’s pastor. McCain hasn’t spent twenty years in Hagee’s church listening to his hate-speech. McCain didn’t get married by Hagee. Hagee isn’t McCain’s spiritual mentor. Hagee didn’t baptize McCain’s children. Hagee didn’t marry the McCain’s.
But good try at the moral equivalence anyway.
Apr 30, 2008 - 8:05 am 15. Brad:Hey macey,
Find us some video or history of McCain naming Hagee his mentor of 20 years, baptising his children, etc. Don’t be such a fool.
Apr 30, 2008 - 8:07 am 16. cv:Wright is not the only kook in BHO’s closet, Obamaites will forgive him but the undecideds and moderates will not.
Apr 30, 2008 - 8:17 am 17. Concerned Citizen:This story finally registered with the general public.
How do I know? My wife, who pays almost no attention to the world around her, asked me about Senator Obama’s pastor this morning. She wasn’t aware of the whole story, how Obama had responded the previous time, threw his granny under the bus and only under the pressure of watching his presidential aspirations go bye-bye, finally recanted and fully repudiated this unfortunate relationship with the pastor.
And I might add, my wife wasn’t happy about Rev. Wright OR Sen. Obama — she is middle of the road in her politics, she could vote either way. This is a huge problem for that campaign — one they will try to sweep under the rug, but the RNC will keep bringing up. Reverend Wrights beliefs go against 98% of all Americans sense of fair-play and decency.
Obama handled himself poorly and/or he shows bad judgement of other’s character. Either way, it’s trouble for someone who would like to be president.
Apr 30, 2008 - 8:23 am 18. william bob:The Obama-Wright friendship mirrors the Clinton marriage. There is the soap opera of attraction and betrayal and, who knows, reconciliation, but the true guiding principle of the story is political expediency. Well, if the Clintons were a soap opera, Obama promises to give us Verdi.
Apr 30, 2008 - 8:26 am 19. willis:Lets see…Obama blew his first opportunity to distance himself from Wright and couldn’t seem to repair his initial performance. Only one solution, Wright would just have to crank it up, make a public outrage of himself and give Obama another chance to do it right. Wright did his part, Obama had the right script this time and Steve Gill swallowed it all, hook. line, and sinker.
Apr 30, 2008 - 8:42 am 20. stan:Perhaps Obama gets a limited do-over. Not so sure that the radical toothpaste in the Democratic Party can be put back in the tube, though. Look at the audience at the National Press Club speech after Wright spoke. Go back and read the glowing accounts about Wright in many left-wing corners right up until the moment Obama cut him loose. Millions of Democrats agree with Wright’s sentiments.
Ayres and Dohrn are regarded as mainstream Democrats by Obama, Daley and the rest of the party in Chicago (and around the country). Dorhn was appointed to a White House committee on children by Hillary.
Michael Moore’s hatred of the USA was applauded by the Dem leadership in Washington and hailed by the party faithful all over the nation. Cindy Sheehan’s moonbat rantings against the country were celebrated by millions of Dem supporters.
Millions of Democrats agree with the wacko 9/11 Truthers. All kinds of Democrats joined hands and shared podiums with ANSWER when the radical anti-US organization organized demonstrations against the US.
Obama’s many friends are shining a big light into the radical dark corners of the party. Now that Reagan Democrats, clinging to their church, their guns and their love of country, have seen what kind of attitudes pass as “mainstream” for Obama and the Democratic party, how are they going to forget? Especially with all the reminders they will get over the next 6 months.
Apr 30, 2008 - 8:49 am 21. Lily:Problem is, life doesn’t often give you an opportunity for a “do over”. We need a leader who generally gets it right the first time. Obama is not ready for Prime Time.
Apr 30, 2008 - 8:49 am 22. macey:Ok, find excuses for McCain. It’s exactly what I expect. McCain asked for Hagee’s endorsement. Meaning that he must have believed that Hagee’s belief systems and values lined up with his own. It doesn’t matter whether he married him or not or whether he ever attended his church. What part of Hagee’s value system and or belief system and or “world views” did McCain feel lined up with his own? Make excuses if you want to, but the media has made every attempt to sniff out every person that has ever known, said hello to, or had lunch with Obama, and made those persons views become “Obama’s views”. While at the same time they are overlooking the “other” 2 candidates are excusing thier behavior. Really it’s none of people’s business why Obama remained at TUCC. One man does not control the entire flock. But even so, I’m sure that Obama just as well as you would have the ability to take from a sermon what is valuable to him personally and leave the rest. What exactly is the relationship between Hagee and McCain? Do you really know? Lets have you on this board and MSM research as heavily in to McCain’s relationship with Hagee, in the same manner that you have with Obama and Wright. Since when is a person guilty by association? And who does the guilt by association apply to? Obama/Wright?, McCain/Hagee? Rev. Wright has a right to his own views and opinions and it is wrong to attribute those views to Obama, just becasue he knows the man. I love my mother and my brother. I don’t agree with every view that they have about every aspect of life. I would never disassociate myself with my family members just becasue I dont’t have the exact same views as they have. 8,000+ members in one church may believe in the same God, may have SOME similar views in certain areas, but 8,000+ members certainly don’t all think 100% the same about all subjects. By the way Brad, I’m not a fool. I think you are. Just becasue you are posting on this website, am I to assume that you agree with every author or every post on this website. The mere fact that you and I disagree is enough to make the point. Obama wasn’t following Wright around 24 hours a day and He wasn’t monitoring all of his conversations and sermons. The same as you can’t monitor every single post on this website. The views on this site do not necessarily reflect the views of the sites owner, and he is not responsible for the various viewpoints anymore than Obama vs Wright. But if you’re going to play the game lets play with McCain & Hagee as well.
Apr 30, 2008 - 8:56 am 23. cfbleachers:The left seems to miss the point or at least try to bend it into bizarre contortionist angles, so it is no longer recognizable.
The comparison between Jerepariah and Hagee is inane. Sen. McCain did not embrace…well, anyone…with the same devotion, admiration, exaltation…as has Sen. Obama for this bile spewing, America-hating bombastic and divisive minister of divisiveness.
Black Liberation Theo-politics (it’s not theology, it is based upon Marxism and anti-free market enterprises)is Louis Farrakhan’s Nation of Islam behind the veil of Christianity. Many black churchgoers would not become Black Muslim’s because they would not leave Jesus and their Christian beliefs. Jerepariah is a Farrakhan disciple…and all he has done is take Mohammed to the mountain…literally and figuratively. Black Liberation theo-politics is the same hate-filled, anti-American, anti-Israel, anti-Semitic, anti-white spawn of Satan garbage …just shrink-wrapped in a Christian package.
Much like Al Capone and Hamas…in order to provide “cover” for the despicable acts of hatred and bile…they “give” to the community. This simply “buys” converts to the cult.
Sen. Obama has learned the language of evasion, duplicity and the parsing of words to the extent that he is among the most proficient ever, his skilled rhetorical skills make him an irresistible force. However, the facts and the truth are immovable objects. The collision leaves us with the shattering of hope and change.
Apr 30, 2008 - 9:02 am 24. If At First You Don’t Succeed : Post Politics: Political News and Views in Tennessee:[...] Steve Gill declares that Barack Obama was lucky that his pastor Jeremiah Wright continued to defend himself and make controversial statement because it gave Obama the opportunity to get his Sister Souljah moment right: In 1992 hip-hop artist and political activist Sister Souljah was asked during a Washington Post interview about the riots in Los Angeles that occurred in the wake of the acquittal of police officers who had beaten black motorist Rodney King following a high speed chase. Souljah noted that “black people kill black people every day; why not have a week and kill white people.” [...]
Apr 30, 2008 - 9:07 am 25. DW:When someone joins a congregation, they are vetted by the church; usually the pastor and elders. They make sure that the new member’s values align with the stated values of the congregation. (it’s how they keep change out)
Apr 30, 2008 - 9:09 am 26. willis:A quick read of TUCC website leads to the black liberation credo.
Obama committed as a member to contribute all of his accomplishments to the church.
When Wright stated that he’d be coming after Obama if Obama won, he wasn’t kidding. Wright must believe that he will be able to influence a President Obama.
Lighten up Macey. You’ve been smoking too much Hagee!
Apr 30, 2008 - 9:10 am 27. Sean:Macey said:
“I love my mother and my brother. I don’t agree with every view that they have about every aspect of life. I would never disassociate myself with my family members just becasue I dont’t have the exact same views as they have.”
Macey, you don’t get to pick your mother and brother. Obama picked Rev. Wright. (Reverend my butt. “There are none worthy of reverence but God.”) Obama chose Mr. Wright as his minister. He was borned into the man’s family. He CHOSE to go to this hatefilled, racist, bigoted, ignorant church. He chose this man as the man who would marry him and his wife, the man he would hold up to his children as someone worthy of respect and the man who would baptize them.
Keep trying with the moral equivalence, but it’s not sticking.
Apr 30, 2008 - 9:12 am 28. Marc:If we are to compare associations and character assassinate, then I surely feel that the endorsement of Obama by Ted Kennedy speaks volumes. Enough said.
Apr 30, 2008 - 9:25 am 29. Marc:If Wright was a white man, would Obama even still be a political notion? The message does not change just because you play for a different team. Hate is hate.
Apr 30, 2008 - 9:27 am 30. Bill Bradley:Steve Gill, such a left-wing shill.
>willis:
Lets see…Obama blew his first opportunity to distance himself from Wright and couldn’t seem to repair his initial performance. Only one solution, Wright would just have to crank it up, make a public outrage of himself and give Obama another chance to do it right. Wright did his part, Obama had the right script this time and Steve Gill swallowed it all, hook. line, and sinker.
Apr 30, 2008 – 8:42 am
Apr 30, 2008 - 9:32 am 31. rvastar:Let me see if I get this right, Macey…
Obama’s choice to attend and donate tens of thousands of dollars to a church for 20 years that’s led by a black racist who thinks that whites, and by extension, the US government, are evil, should not be a factor in determining his fitness for the Presidency?
Hmm…how “nuanced” of you!
I wonder, though…would you be displaying the same “nuanced” view if, for example, John McCain had been attending a Christian Identity church for the past 20 years, listening to and donating money to his “spiritual advisor” and “mentor”, Dr. Richard Butler.
If that were the case, would scrutiny of McCain’s association with that church by the media and the Democrat party be appropriate?
Yes or no?
And in an effort at helping you to stop digging that hole any deeper, here’s a bit of advice: any answer you give immediately and completely exposes you as someone not worth debating…so stop digging, and go away.
Apr 30, 2008 - 9:36 am 32. cfbleachers:In addition, the left seems to want to sweep leftists under the rug. Ayers and Dorhn have a connection that has depth and breadth with Sen. Obama, that leftists seem to want to run away from, with speed and a “don’t look here” angst.
Why? The whole of Sen. Obama’s life has been littered…filled to the brim…with America-hating, Israel-hating, anti-captialism, pro-Socialism/communism voices…to an extent that it would be ridiculous to even suggest that it has not had an impact on him. It’s worth studying, since he’s trying to become the leader of the branch of government that impacts virtually every aspect of our lives.
He was “mentored” and sat at the knee of “Frank”. Why hide “Frank” behind the rather suspicious and elusive shroud…isn’t it now an open secret that he is Frank Marshall Davis,the CPUSA member?
However, Obama writes in Dreams From My Father that he saw “Frank” who became his mentor, advisor, confidante …and indeed as he left Hawaii for college, Davis seemed just as radical as ever. Davis called college “An advanced degree in compromise” and warned Obama not to forget his “people” and not to “start believing what they tell you about equal opportunity and the American way and all that shit.”
Rev Wright is simply a continuation of the lifelong seeking to be surrounded with hard left, anti-white, anti-American, anti-capitalism voices to embrace and idolize, including his most radical professors at college.
It was in Chicago after his search for his most radical professors that Obama became a “community organizer” and came into contact with more hard left political forces, including the Democratic Socialists of America, which maintains close ties to European socialist groups and parties through the Socialist International (SI), and two former members of the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS), William Ayers and Carl Davidson.
Ayers is now a college professor at the Chicago Circle Campus of the U of Illinois and served with Obama on the board of the Woods Fund of Chicago, as well as holding a fund raiser for him at his house. Michelle Obama may have come across Ayers in Mayor Daley’s office or at Sidley & Austin, years before. Ayers and Dorhn are viciously anti-American, despicable characters involved with plotting to bomb government institutions and military dances.
Davidson is now a figure in the Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism, an offshoot of the old Moscow-controlled CPUSA, and helped organize the 2002 rally where Obama came out against the Iraq War.
Sen. Obama has a voting record left of Bernie Sanders, in fact, his would be the furthest left voting record of any candidate who won a major party primary. He has stumped for Sanders and continues to have relationships with hard-left, openly Socialist and Communist voices within his own campaign.
Sen. Obama’s chief blogger, Sam Graham-Felsen is a Chomskyite socialist. Noam Chomsky being one of the most notoriously disgusting anti-American, anti-Israel, anti-capitalism freak who also holds a lofty position in academia which seems all too enthralled with advancing revolutionary ideas and strangling patriotic ones.
Sen. Obama also has continuously had Nation of Islam ranking members on his personal staff. The Nation of Islam, headed by Louis Farrakhan is another in a long line of class warfare mixed with racial warfare bile.
Not only does Sen. Obama have connections to a myriad of hate based people and organizations, he has spent a lifetime seeking them out, embracing them and calling them mentors, advisors, idols and heroes. Whether this is an attempt to find some connection with his lifetime absent Socialist father, or some other deeply rooted need…there is little doubt that it has had an impact.
So, taking all of this information and piecing it together, instead of viewing it in a vacuum as the leftists would enjoy …and which their “in the bag media” (see Cloyers Moyers for example) continue to do…it must be looked at as one puzzle with many pieces.
Jerepariah was a hero, role model, advisor, mentor, father-figure…PRECISELY BECAUSE he held hard left, angry, hostile, anti-American, anti-Israel, anti-capitalism views…not in spite of…because of. THAT is consistent with the entire history of Sen. Obama.
He didn’t “vet” Jerepariah…because he already KNEW what he stood for.
Rashid Khalidi, Said, and the whole anti-Israeli crowd…more of the same.
Rezco, more of the same…with a little “fixing” thrown in.
These are not unconnected, isolated, sporadic or “loose” ties. These are a continuation of a lifetime dedicated to advancing a worldview. Let’s stop playing the dupes who respond to the media’s game of hide and seek and Blind Man’s Bluff.
Sen. Obama is a lifelong admirer and devotee of hard-leftism. If he would honestly run on that platform…he would get many of the same Soros, Chomsky, Mendelsohn, people anyway. He’s not going to get the astute, aware and awake. It’s the sleeping middle he’s after…and there’s nobody in the leftist media who is going to wake them up.
Apr 30, 2008 - 9:38 am 33. BMoon:Either Obama believes, like a successful charlatan, that he is more clever than the buying public, and can weave a set of words to cloak the truth, or he is a trly inner-conflicted soul, not sure of what he really believes. Either way, it is chilling that he has reached this close to the Presidency. It is even more chilling that there are so many gullible, mush-minded people that have catapulted him this far.
I think we innocent, naive, open-hearted “flyovers” need to remind ourselves that evil does exist and that there is much evil underlying the Obama movement – hatred of the U.S., hatred for Israel and the Jews, radical ideologies, hatred for middle class values..ETC.
See the zombietime chronicles for a refresher course on who and what is behind the ideologies runningthe Obama campaign.
Apr 30, 2008 - 9:45 am 34. PR:Macey
Apr 30, 2008 - 9:46 am 35. rvastar:Welcome to our world. You know how you feel right now? That’s how conservatives feel every single day. Finally you libs get a taste of your own medicine. It’s fun watching you self-destruct though.
Back to my earlier assessment that this is all just sham political theatre, check out this National Review Online article by Amy Holmes from 6 weeks ago:
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=MTdmMmJmOWFlZDZkOGUyOTgwNTYyMjQ3YmRlNTAzZjE
Here’s an excerpt:
Then, he deploys The Pastor Plan. It goes like this. Pastor Wright arranges to give a speech. In it, the pastor makes such outlandish and slanderous claims, not unlike we’ve already heard, that Obama has no choice but to say, “Enough! Jeremiah has gone too far. I cannot abide his divisive, harmful, and inappropriate language. He does not speak for me or my family which is why we must, with heavy hearts, sever our relationship. He will always be a friend and welcome at my door. But I cannot continue to take his counsel, religious or otherwise.” It helps here if the pastor has used some swear words and invented new conspiracies.
It’s so obvious, it would be funny and comical, if it weren’t for the completely terrifying fact that are sooooo many stupid people in this country who – under no circumstances – will have the scales peeled from their eyes regarding Obambi.
Apr 30, 2008 - 9:56 am 36. Dave:“..by taking full advantage of his “do-over” Obama will now be able to stop the bleeding and close the deal for the Democratic Party nomination.”
Huh! Ya think??? Let’s see what happens over the next few weeks in Indiana and North Carolina…
Regardless, if he is able to “stop the bleeding”, he is now a wounded and entirely unelectable candidate come November. My guess is the Democratic Party will look back at this GOLDEN chance they blew for the Presidency, by letting an inexperienced and unvetted but highly polished and professional politician, run away with a few early primaries and caucuses, and see that they need to make some changes in how they nominate a candidate.
But then again, knowing the mess their party is in with the far left taking it over…probably not!
Apr 30, 2008 - 9:58 am 37. ic:It’s Wright’s reverse “Sister Souljah” moment. Obie had his SS moment, he blew it. The second time is called pandering, only his most ardent supporters would believe him.
Apr 30, 2008 - 10:04 am 38. waylay:People wonder what Wright has over Obama, what he could possibly do or say from here that would harm him.
“He was in my church that Sunday, when I said ______”.
Pummeling Obama’s assertion, “I didn’t know”.
Apr 30, 2008 - 10:05 am 39. Dark Helmet:Lordy Lordy, what do you think he (obama ) will do when someone points out to him that he is as much white as he is black?
Apr 30, 2008 - 10:08 am 40. Kate:Up until Obamba and his pastor came on the scene, I must confess I was pretty much unaware of “Black Libertion Theology” . Farrakhan and his Muslims not withstanding, I thought Black Churches were Christian, thoughtful, emotional, musical, hospitable, full of virtue and great people. Now, understanding what BLT is and just who supports it, it has become a great concern. BLT is based on marxism and typical to that political philosophy, is generally advanced through feigned outrage, lies and the relentlessly enhanced “victimhood” of people and this case, mainly of black people here in America. Black Liberation Theology is inherently racist. And it is now a political force with some ministers not unike the Mullahs of Islam who spew hatred , anti-Americanism and anti-sematism and revenge for their supposed victimhood.
Apr 30, 2008 - 10:27 am 41. perky pauly:So, the rantings of Jeramiah Wright must be seen as exactly what they are, both racist and marxist. At Trinity Church Barak Obama fell under his spell (Wright is a great orator) and Michelle Obama really lapped it up. Hence the “I’ve never been proud of my country” speech. They needed the Rev Wright for their political aspirations…up to a point. Now the Reverend Wright and and Black Liberation Theology have become difficult baggage and we are to believe a. they really did not hear anything their pastor said in the twenty years they listened and financially supported him and his church or b. the Obamas have seen the light, the transformation is complete and we should now just shut up about the whole thing and get on with dumping Hillary and puting them in place for November. Well, I’m not buying it. I do not trust him, he is calculating, he has poor judgement and different values. I simply do not find it believable that he, Obama, does not believe exactly what the Reverend Wright has been preaching. All of it. By supporting Reverend Wright until his back was against the wall Obama has proven that he is just another politician and a far left one at that. I could never vote for him and I certainly would not want any First Lady to have to put up with representing a country she is not proud of. Obama is simply not electable in November.
Keep thinking what a shrewd political ploy—now he (Obama) can claim to be a victim of Wright’s manipulative ways and get his campaign back track. He wins sympathy and the poor fools vote for him, forgetting that for 20 years he heard these traitorous sermons, was aware of Wright’s friendship and trip with Farrakhan . Am I too believe that he was selectively deaf for those 20 years or too stupid to understand what being preached? In either case it certainly disqualifies him from the presidency
Apr 30, 2008 - 10:27 am 42. Texas Gal:Got caught with his hand in the cookie jar and now he claims that he is another innocent victim of that shrewd Pastor Wright. Obama was as unaware of Wright’s statements as the Germans were unaware of the Holocaust.
I feel you’re pain Macey.
If I’d been hoodwinked into accepting at gift from the Trojans I’d be pissed too.
I’d blame the 91% Iowans.
I don’t know Steve, Obama might not get a ‘do-over’ out of this except perhaps with those like Macey here who need a sigh of relief that they haven’t been played a fool and wasted their vote.
I tend to agree somewhat with VDH that there will be some non-black supporters who will fall away. But I think that impact will be felt in the general if Obama gets the nomination of his party when those who now must feel their own ability to judge character has been shaken will stay home.
But I am really enjoying watching the irony of the Hope and Change candidate.
Apr 30, 2008 - 10:28 am 43. Dumaur-Smith:RVASTAR: You and I have the same take on this. In view of the history, nothing else makes sense–it was staged. After twenty years of coziness with a presidential candidate, Wright is going to throw it all away by going south? You have two pretty canny people who know a racial extremist will never be elected president. What to do. Stage an angry break up, with Wright getting down and dirty in a public venue with Obama to point the accusing finger. An image to remember, no?
Or, the senario for public consumption: a mentored and fostered young man discovers after twenty years of the mentor’s preaching that the very association that served him well, no longer serves at the brink of his possible presidency. Why, it’s not what he thought it was! That from which he derived sustenance he now sees was anti-American, racist, and, [here comes that H-word] hateful. He pulls away, the mentor denounces him, he angrily denounces the mentor as evil and goes forward, chin and eyes lifted. Sure.
Apr 30, 2008 - 10:29 am 44. macey:Hagee:If America does not stop pressuring Israel to give up land, I believe that God will bring this nation into judgment, because I believe what this book says. And if God brings this nation into judgment, He will very likely release the terrorists that you’ve already let get here through the ridiculous immigration policy you refuse to stop, and this nation is going to go through a bloodbath that you have permitted because of what you have done. You have disobeyed the law of God, and now, we as a nation are going to pay a price for that.
Hagee on LGBT Americans”The newspaper carried the story in our local area that was not carried nationally that there was to be a homosexual parade there on the Monday that the Katrina came. And the promise of that parade was that it was going to reach a level of sexuality never demonstrated before in any of the other Gay Pride parades. So I believe that the judgment of God is a very real thing. I know that there are people who demur from that, but I believe that the Bible teaches that when you violate the law of God, that God brings punishment sometimes before the day of judgment.”
Hagee on Hurricane Katrina”All hurricanes are acts of God because God controls the heavens. I believe that New Orleans had a level of sin that was offensive to God and they were recipients of the judgment of God for that.” Hagee on Catholicism”Most readers will be shocked by the clear record of history linking Adolf Hitler and the Roman Catholic Church in a conspiracy to exterminate the Jews.”
Hagee on Women”Do you know the difference between a woman with PMS and a snarling Doberman pinscher? The answer is lipstick. Do you know the difference between a terrorist and a woman with PMS? You can negotiate with a terrorist.”
Hagee on blacks.The San Antonio Express-News reported that Hagee was going to “meet with black religious leaders privately at an unspecified future date to discuss comments he made in his newsletter about a ’slave sale,’ an East Side minister said Wednesday.” The Express-News reported:”Hagee, pastor of the 16,000-member Cornerstone Church, last week had announced a ’slave sale’ to raise funds for high school seniors in his church bulletin, ‘The Cluster.’ “The item was introduced with the sentence ‘Slavery in America is returning to Cornerstone” and ended with “Make plans to come and go home with a slave.” Hagee on Iran”The coming nuclear showdown with Iran is a certainty,” Hagee wrote in the Pentecostal magazine Charisma. “Israel and America must confront Iran’s nuclear ability and willingness to destroy Israel with nuclear weapons. For Israel to wait is to risk committing national suicide.”
Hagee on Islamic BeliefsFresh Air host Terry Gross asked if Hagee believed that “all Muslims have a mandate to kill Christians and Jews,” to which Hagee replied, “Well, the Quran teaches that. Yes, it teaches that very clearly.”
In defense of Hagee, McCain “Asked” for his endorsement. I repeat my question: What is it about Hagee’s views that McCain believes lines up with his own views so much so that he would ask Hagee to endorse him? “Well I think it’s important to note that pastor John Hagee who has supported and endorsed my candidacy supports what I stand for and believe in. When he endorses me, it does not mean that I embrace everything that he stands for and believes. And I am very proud of the Pastor John Hagee’s spiritual leadership to thousands of people and I am proud of his commitment to the independence and the freedom of the state of Israel. That does not mean that I support or endorse or agree with some of the things that Pastor John Hagee might have said or positions that he may have taken on other issues. I don’t have to agree with everyone who endorses my candidacy. They are supporting my candidacy. I am not endorsing some of their positions.” In the statement, Mc Cain fails to mention that he “ASKED” for the endorsement. He stated he is very proud of Hagee’s spiritual leadership of thousands. Which thousands is he referring to? Hagee’s own comments listed above indicates so many millions that he speaks against.
If McCain can say “That does not mean that I support or endorse or agree with some of the things that Pastor John Hagee might have said or positions that he may have taken on other issues. I don’t have to agree with everyone who endorses my candidacy”, then why is it not acceptable for Obama to say he does not endorse some of the statements of Wright.
Even on this website, I am already being stereotyped and referred to be as a leftess”. What is a “leftess”? And since you have know idea who I am, how would you be able to make such a statement? How do you know whether or not I am Democratic, Republican, Independent, or Neither, Black, White, or Hispanic. I have not mentioned any characteristics identifying myself but you assume that I must be in support of Obama, simply because I raised the debate. If you are so open minded and honest and “so right”, tell me why you “categorized me without sufficient supportive evidence”. I think you easily prove my point.
Apr 30, 2008 - 10:30 am 45. QuickRob » Blog Archive » Advice for Obama - Enabling Political Self-Help:[...] Says Obama: I gave him the benefit of the doubt in my speech in Philadelphia, explaining that he has done enormous good in the church,” Obama told an audience in Winston-Salem. “But when he states and then amplifies such ridiculous propositions as the U.S. government somehow being involved in AIDS; when he suggests that Minister Farrakhan somehow represents one of the greatest voices of the 20th and 21st century; when he equates the U.S. wartime efforts with terrorism — then there are no excuses. They offend me. [...]
Apr 30, 2008 - 10:47 am 46. Angry African:I get the sense that many people support McCain and Hillary because they don’t like the other option. Does that say something about them? That they are more driven by dislike and hatred than an actual position? Maybe it is because they feel they have no option. There is no alternative for them. But it is sad though. Sad that they can’t mobilize around anything other than what they are against. I hear many Republicans say, “McCain. I hate him, but he is better than the other two.” Sad. Just sad. http://angryafrican.net/2008/04/30/stand-up-for-it/
Apr 30, 2008 - 10:59 am 47. PR:Macey
Apr 30, 2008 - 11:02 am 48. Marty:My guess is that you are a lefty, but you will get on here later and call yourself a moderate.
Obama probably stanched the bleeding among those who want to believe in him, but anyone of a skeptical bent who can actually think for themselves still has to deal with these options.
Either:
1. Obama is a hard-left America-hater like Wright, Ayers, etc., who tried for 6 weeks to avoid publicly breaking faith with his co-believers, and finally made the cynical, political decision that he had to publicly renounce Wright (acting as a politician, just like Wright said) and pretend he doesn’t believe what he really does; OR
2. For 20 years, Obama made and lived with a cynical decision to join Trinity, and buddy up to people like Ayers to curry favor with his South Side Chicago base, and the statements in his books, published interviews with Wright and him, and so on are to be discounted, but he has now risen above that base and can now honestly proclaim that isn’t him at all (tho he refused to do so in Philadelphia on March 18); OR
3. He is the worst judge of character since Bush said he thought Putin was a good guy, if not since Chamberlain said Hitler was a man of his word.
People who care can argue about which of those is true, but I know all that I need to know re Obama’s fitness to be President: he ain’t. He either hates America, built his political career on a tissue of lies, or is a fool. Whichever is the case, he shouldn’t be President.
Apr 30, 2008 - 11:32 am 49. BMoon:Angry African,
I am for McCain for his character and for his positions. What is truly sad is that all the once-great Democratic Party has to offer are two ambitious, do-anything-to-get-elected ideological leftovers from the 60’s.
Apr 30, 2008 - 11:34 am 50. Texas Gal:I get the sense that many people support McCain and Hillary because they don’t like the other option. Does that say something about them?
Yes it does.
It says that they are savvy enough to look beyond race and rhetoric when selecting the next POTUS and Leader of the Free World.
It says that they recognize we are in dangerous times and need a leader that has the experience to lead us through them.
It says that they understand the threat from radical Islamists is a real danger to our continued prosperity.
It says that they aren’t going to vote for a man just because he is black unlike 90%+ of the black voters.
It says a lot more, but I think you get my point.
Apr 30, 2008 - 11:35 am 51. Dave F:Well. Obama comes across (and that’s what matters in the crunch) as passionless, calculating and devoid of any actual vision on the big issues. It’s laudable to make racism a prime target, but is it really even feasible to change the hearts of racists? I fear it will only win votes from earnest yuppies.
Where’ s the beef? as a previous campaigner asked
In addition, his tricky zigzagging over uncomfortable questions is getting more pronounced. Where in hell does he stand when the chips are down? Anyone? In his latest rant Wright said essentially the same stuff he always has. But last time it was “sorrowful” Obama. This time he’s mad. I don’t buy it. I think he is a politician’s politician, and that won’t do for the top job.
If Obama gets the nom, my bet is that McCain will walk it. Sadly.
Apr 30, 2008 - 11:35 am 52. Andrew:And you guys think the left has a Derangement Syndrome. I look forward to all of your states of mind when Obama wins in November. And if you think McCain is really a strong candidate get real and keep praying.
Apr 30, 2008 - 11:51 am 53. ts:Y’all are bunch of whiny b***hes. Except for Bill Bradley. He’s cool.
Apr 30, 2008 - 12:05 pm 54. macey:I noticed that none of you have commented on my post regarding Hagee’s specific statements.
Keep ignoring facts versus propaganda and keep wondering why those you have supported for 20+ years continue to stick a knife in your backs.
I say this because the majority of those posting tend to be protective of McCain. Polls indicate that the vast majority of Americans are unhappy with the politicians of the past and the situation of our past and present government.
I am simply looking for some independent thinkers.
Who can compare facts?
Apr 30, 2008 - 12:31 pm 55. rvastar:Hagee/McCane versus Wright/Obama or even better who can compare/contrast Hagee/Wright and or McCain/Obama and then be able to make independent choices regardless of race,gender, political party.
Macey:
You can run but you can’t hide!
“…would scrutiny of McCain’s association with that church by the media and the Democrat party be appropriate? Yes or no?”
Since you’ve decided to keep showing your face around here, we’re all breathlessly awaiting your response to my challenge above.
Unfortunately for you, you don’t even get the actual ramifications of the point that you’re so desperately trying to make.
Here, I’ll spell it out for you.
John McCain is not a member of Hagee’s church.
Barack Obama is a member of Wright’s church.
John McCain received a political endorsement from Hagee 3 months ago.
Barack Obama has been receiving spiritual “advice” and “mentoring” from Wright for 20 years.
John McCain hasn’t donated any money to Hagee’s church.
Barack Obama has donated tens of thousands of dollars to Wright’s church.
John McCain wasn’t married to his wife by Hagee.
Barack Obama was married to his wife by Wright.
John McCain never took his children to Hagee’s church.
Barack Obama’s children have been exposed to Wright on a regular basis their entire lives.
My point?
If Hagee’s endorsement of John McCain somehow hints at McCain’s unfitness for the presidency, then by simple logical extension and reason, Wright’s personal relationship with Obama completely annihilates any notion that Obama is fit for the presidency.
By the merits of your own argument, Obama is unfit to be the President.
Don’t worry…no one here really expects any substantive rebuttal from you because we know that it isn’t possible for you to provide one. But please, knock yourself out lobbing one lame leftist tactic after another in your futile attempts.
I’ll sum up the moral of the story:
Leftist: Here, have a bite of my sh!t sandwich.
Apr 30, 2008 - 12:33 pm 56. Steve Gill:Sane person: No thanks.
Leftist: What’s wrong with you? Why don’t you want to have a bite?
Sane person: Because it’s made out of sh!t.
Leftist: But it’s on $100 bread…and all the critics say it’s great…and only hicks are afraid to try something new!
Sane person: Maybe all of that’s true…but none of that changes the fact that that sandwich is made out sh!t.
As some of the posters have noted, a lot of Americans are just now paying attention to the controversy over Wright. Those who have been paying attention are NOT Obama’s target with his denunciation of Wright. The casual political observers, who depend on the major networks for their news (who have barely reported Pastor-gate to date), are who he is counting on in order to take full advantage of his shot at a do-over.
Obama fumbled the ball a month ago when he gave a speech that gave Wright a pass on the exact same dispicable stuff that he denounced yesterday. If Wright had simply disappeared for the remainder of the campaign then the slow bleed damage to Obama from his relationship with Wright would have continued through November. But by coming back into public view Wright gave Obama a second shot to distance himself from the radical preacher and to condemn his racist rants, which Obama did in clear terms yesterday. (Whether or not that was Wright’s plan is certainly a good question. Was he trying to hurt of help Obama?) In any event, Obama hit a much better tee shot with his mulligan and it will likely salvage his campaign…against Hillary.
Now, are Obama’s comments denouncing his former pastor believable? Absolutely not. Wright didn’t say anything this week that he hasn’t said for twenty years. He is who he has always been, and both Barack and Michelle Obama have bought into the rhetoric he has dispensed from the pulpit of Trinity United Church of Christ. The ONLY difference in last week and this week is that Barack has seen the light when it comes to the political radioactivity of this nitwit. So Barack finally SAYS the right thing. But there is no reason to believe he actually means it, and he is months (if not years) late in ACTING upon his supposedly passionate disagreement with Wright’s views.
Nevertheless, most Democrat voters (especially those Super Delegates who may have been second guessing whether he should be their nominee) will be taken in by his slick words…and that is exactly what he is counting on happening. And that is why his “do-over” will work to secure the Democratic Party nomination.
Apr 30, 2008 - 12:36 pm 57. M.E.:Obama can “throw Wright under the proverbial bus” and disavow his intimate relation with the diabolic pastor and other black predicators of Hate. But he had received their “mark upon his forehead”, and no sham can help him to wipe away it. As great scholar Victor Davis Hanson says: “Without sounding overly dramatic, I think Wright’s performance yesterday and today have cost Barack Obama the election. He cannot give yet another incomplete sermon on race (”Racial Relations Take 2?”), and will soon discover that his Hispanic, Asian, and white supporters suspect that he is either a racial chauvanist or tone deaf to those who are — and then will silently flee his candidacy, sort of like quietly getting up and leaving the theater half-way through a bad movie”. (http://pajamasmedia.com/victordavishanson/)
Apr 30, 2008 - 12:37 pm 58. arnita:Go OBAMA! They’re just hating on you because they see black skin. They don’t care about the
Apr 30, 2008 - 12:39 pm 59. Tricia of Charlotte, NC:white half of you because when they look at you all they see is black. They’re using Wright as an excuse when the reason reason is that can’t accept the fact that we’re going to have a black president! Hillary and McCain are both lying dogs but I guess that’s ok, they’re white!
Macey?
It’s just like you Obamabots. You cannot give anything substantial about Obama (neither can he, because there isn’t anything) so you do exactly what Reverend Wright’s church preaches…victimization.
Victimization only allows blaming others or finding fault in others rather than empowering and improving yourself. But then again, as exhausting as it must be, when you’re playing the victim, how can you find anything positive? You don’t want to and that’s why Obama and Mrs. Obama can’t find anything positive about “bitter” America.
There is no comparision between Hagee and Wright.
Can you say: Black Liberation Theology?
Cone, he points out, was the most prominent theologian in the “black liberation” school in the 1960s, teaching that Jesus Christ himself is black.
The theologian explains:
Christ is black therefore not because of some cultural or psychological need of black people, but because and only because Christ really enters into our world where the poor were despised and the black are, disclosing that he is with them enduring humiliation and pain and transforming oppressed slaves into liberating servants.
Rather than viewing God as a sovereign being who does as he wills according to his purposes, Cone insists God must do what we want him to do, or we must reject him.
What the black community wants, Cone says, is for God to assist in its goal of destroying “the white enemy.”
Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill gods who do not belong to the black community
… Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.
‘I reject outright’
http://mediamatters.org/items/200803180004
In Obama’s first book and spoken aloud by him in his audio version, was about the black value system and how he read the pamphlet about it.
On Page 284, he talks about it and he called the Black Value System “a sensible heart-felt list.”
How can this man deny knowing how radical Reverend Wright was? Ridiculous!
Apr 30, 2008 - 12:57 pm 60. Freedom Fan:~~~
Is there an echo in here? Apparently sister souljah and jeremiah the pariah are not really racist hate-mongers; this is just the way folks worship in the “black church”.
Praise the lawd and pass the ammunition!
Apr 30, 2008 - 1:09 pm 61. Marc:Hagee wasn’t McCain’s pastor for twenty years. McCain denounced Hagee’s endorsement the next day. Hagee’s remarks were taken out of context, look it up. If McCain were black, he’d still be my choice.
Apr 30, 2008 - 1:09 pm 62. rvastar:I look forward to all of your states of mind when Obama wins in November.
You’re absolutely right, Andrew! I mean, look at how easy it’s been for him to wrap up the Democrat nomination. The national contest will be a piece a cake!
After all, I can just see the landslide of support Obama’s going to enjoy from independents and Republicans, votes that he needs. Why wouldn’t they vote for a man who’s 1) been attending a racist church for 20 years and 2) thinks that average Americans are ignorant, “clinging” hicks who need to just make way for their leftist superiors?
Think about it: we’ll be able to just get on with creating utopia thru a combination of tax increases and flowery prose!
McCain should just quit now!
…get real and keep praying.
Here’s something for you to “get real” about. It’s something that the Leftist media doesn’t like to discuss because it’s “sensitive”.
The only reason Obama is even leading in the Dem nomination fight is because blacks are voting for him lock-step – to the tune 0f +80%. If this were a “normal” nomination – where blacks distributed their votes across the candidates – he’d be losing to Clinton.
While blacks make up a sizeable chunk of the Democrat population, the only make up 13% of the national population. Obama is struggling badly when it comes to getting the votes of white, working-class Dems, the other large Dem voting block.
Answer me this: if he’s struggling getting the votes of white Democrats, how in the world do you think he’s going to get the votes of white independents and Republicans?
Keep praying? Yeah…and you keep dreaming, pal.
Apr 30, 2008 - 1:10 pm 63. Neocon Don:The LLL and partisan donks will remain committed to the Obamessiah if he takes the nomination. Con men succeed because the mark wants so badly to believe something they know is too good to be true.
Reagan Democrats, sane independents, and the GOP will not vote for Snobama now.
Apr 30, 2008 - 1:13 pm 64. Keith:Macey:
To me this discussion should have nothing to do with McCain and Hagee.
This article and the conversation is around Obama’s beliefs, with regard to his previously stated mentor and spiritual father figure. For me this is a discussion of Obama/Hillary and since when you look at their stated platform Obama and Hillary are very similar, this issue looms large.
So really for me and for a lot people, these are important questions.
Apr 30, 2008 - 1:21 pm 65. macey:You all seem to be so angry.
Keith: Did you read the article?. Independent thinking might require one to compare and contrast other candidates who have same or similar situations.
The relevency is that Hagee and Wright have very similar views. McCain and Obama are candidates in the same political election campaign.
rvaster:
It’s irrevelevent that Hagee only endorsed McCain in the past 3 months. When did their relationship begin? One would think that by asking for his endorsement, they had some type of prior relationship and that McCain knew something about Hagee’s belief and value systems, which prompted him to ask for the endorsement. Did McCain know about Hagee’s views before he ASKED for his endorsement? Are you suggesting that 3 months vs 20 years is ok. How many of Hagee’s sermons did McCain listen to and or church services did he attend and how much money did he contribute? Can you prove he never heard any sermons, never attended andy services and never made any contributions. If so, why would McCain ASK for the endorsement of a man he knows nothing about. Hagee is a prominent evangelist who has been in the MSM for years becasue of his controversial statements. Maybe McCain never watched televiion.
Have you seen Obama in attendence at Wright’s church. How many services did he attend? Was he present when those statements were made? Do you have proof that he heard some of the negative statements that Rev Wright made.
The issue is not whether or not I am supporting Obama or McCain. The issue is that people make decisions based on racial and gender biases and party affiliation and misinformation.
It’s obvious the MSM believes that Obama is the stronger candidateof either Clinton or McCain, otherwise they would not spend 80% of their broadcast talking about him.
It’s further obvious that most of you posting on this site believe the same or you would not get so angry.
It’s just a discussion.
Here is an example of what happens when people don’t think independently and don’t get their facts straight:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/04/29/fox-news-lincoln-douglas_n_99331.html
Apr 30, 2008 - 2:26 pm 66. Texas Gal:It’s further obvious that most of you posting on this site believe the same or you would not get so
angrybitterLOL.. fixed it for ya!
Macey, you just made the same argument that Obama made in San Fran. He can’t get the middle class white folk to vote for him ’cause we’re bitter. That’s not the reason. But just like Obama, you think that it’s because he’s black. Now that’s real arrogance in my book.
Apr 30, 2008 - 2:46 pm 67. Denny, Alaska:Through gross ineptitude, Sen. Obama (D-Lamont Sanford) will keep the Jeremiah Wright issue in the news ’til the day he’s forced to concede.
Watch the North Carolina primary; I predict Her Hillaryness losing by only a very few points.
Apr 30, 2008 - 2:52 pm 68. Misanthropicus:RE: Angry African: “I get the sense that many people support McCain and Hillary because they don’t like the other option. [...] they are more driven by dislike and hatred than an actual position? Maybe it is because they feel they have no option. There is no alternative for them. But it is sad though. Sad that they can’t mobilize around anything other than what they are against. I hear many Republicans say, “McCain. I hate him, but he is better than the other two.” Sad. Just sad.”
1) Angry Afrinan, understand that what we’ve been for long discussing here and everywhere is a US CITIZEN’s (mr. Obama’s) qualifications for being elected US president,
Apr 30, 2008 - 3:37 pm 69. macey:2) mr. Obama can be seen as unlectable by many for many reason, ranging from his being Christian, for having a white mother, for studying at Harvard, for attending school in Los Angeles, for not being an awoved bisexual, for not supporting louder mr. Ayres, etc. – and this is their constitution-given right,
3) the US presidency is not an entry level, internship or affirmative action position for which one is given some slack to learn the skills, neither should it be offered to an aggrieved minority memmber in order to repair some past injustice and to alleviate its self-esteem,
4) with these in mind, any US lawful voter can and must scrutinize a candidate’s past, talents, associations, predispositions, etc. – the enormous power of the US presidency can amplify with severe consequences the Oval Office future tenant’s character flaws, ideological servitudes and burdensome associations,
5) as an African, you can describe the above on racial lines, as hatred and dislike – I describe your position as yet another example of the entitlement sesnse which pervades mr. Obama’s following.
Texas Gal:
Who mentioned race?
I appreciate your efforts to corect my error but the actualy corection is:
“It’s furthr obvious that most of you posting on this site believe the same or you would not be so ANGRY AND BITTER.”
It really does pay to be an independent thinker.
Denny, Alaska:
You may be right that Obama may be forced to concede.
Ineptitude? I am not sure why you would consider Obama incompetent. Even the MSM understands his level of competence. But then again may be your effort to think independently and research factual information.
You were able to come up with something no one else has.
Even John McCain and Hillary Clinton consider him to be competent. You are to be commended for having such valuable knowledge.
It really does pay to be able to think independently.
Apr 30, 2008 - 3:44 pm 70. macey:Angry African wrote:
I get the sense that many people support McCain and Hillary because they don’t like the other option. Does that say something about them? That they are more driven by dislike and hatred than an actual position? Maybe it is because they feel they have no option. There is no alternative for them. But it is sad though. Sad that they can’t mobilize around anything other than what they are against. I hear many Republicans say, “McCain. I hate him, but he is better than the other two.” Sad. Just sad.
Misanthropicus wrote:
As an African, you can describe the above on racial lines, as hatred and dislike – I describe your position as yet another example of the entitlement sesnse which pervades mr. Obama’s following.
Misantropicus:
Where does Angry African mention race in his comment. Is this what happens when you think independently.
Since you mentioned it Obama can’t win the presidential election without the white vote. McCain can’t win the presidential election without the black vote.
Maybe it’s really not a good idea for you to think independently.
Apr 30, 2008 - 4:41 pm 71. Bill Bradley:Correction.
Obama has no real problem with middle class whites. He wins them, big time. The higher the education level, the better Obama does.
His problem is with working class whites.
>Texas Gal:
It’s further obvious that most of you posting on this site believe the same or you would not get so angry bitter
LOL.. fixed it for ya!
Macey, you just made the same argument that Obama made in San Fran. He can’t get the middle class white folk to vote for him ’cause we’re bitter. That’s not the reason. But just like Obama, you think that it’s because he’s black. Now that’s real arrogance in my book.
Apr 30, 2008 – 2:46 pm
Apr 30, 2008 - 5:11 pm 72. Bill Bradley:You are underestimating Obama’s slickness and overestimating Wright’s insanity.
>J.J. Sefton:
My gut tells me that Irreverend Wright will not just go quietly into that good night. He has been thrown under the bus by one of his own, and I would bet (and hope) that tomorrow’s headlines have him confirming in no uncertain terms that Barry-O was in the front pew for every one of his sermons – awake, alert and shouting ‘hallelujahs’ and ‘hoseannas’ after every sentence. Chickens comin’ home to roost indeed!
BTW: Did Bill Bradley really write “mishegoss” (sic)??!!
Apr 30, 2008 – 7:37 am
Apr 30, 2008 - 5:14 pm 73. rvastar:♫ …I put my lefty foot in,
And I shake it all about,
I do the Obama-Pokey,
And I turn myself around,
That’s what it’s all about! ♫
Dance, Macey, dance!!!
Since you’re not intellectually honest enough to admit that the standards by which you judge McCain actually serve to disqualify Obama even more, I will waste no more time with you…and I’d suggest to everyone that they do the same.
You’re a typical leftist hack…offering nothing but moral equivalence (“yeah, but white people!…”) and finger-pointing…worthy of nothing but being ignored.
Enjoy Obambi’s double-digit loss in November. I sure know I will!
Apr 30, 2008 - 5:49 pm 74. Texas Gal:Obama has no real problem with middle class whites. He wins them, big time. The higher the education level, the better Obama does.
His problem is with working class whites.
Bill I don’t know about you but for me the middle class white and the working class white are the same group since I belong to both. But thanks for giving me a hand up the economic ladder..
I was referring to Obama’s problem in PA with the white Democrat vote. I’ve only been to PA one time but my impression is that the working class is the middle class in PA.
I appreciate your efforts to corect my error but the actualy corection is:
“It’s furthr obvious that most of you posting on this site believe the same or you would not be so ANGRY AND BITTER.”
Wow Macey, I’m impressed you have Obama’s words committed to memory. However, I was paraphrasing his comment not actually quoting him since your comment wasn’t a quote of his words. BUT it was the same insinuation.
I confess .. I.. just.. could.. not.. resist.
Who mentioned race?
Well.
You did.
The full context of what you said was:
The issue is not whether or not I am supporting Obama or McCain. The issue is that people make decisions based on racial and gender biases and party affiliation and misinformation.
It’s obvious the MSM believes that Obama is the stronger candidateof either Clinton or McCain, otherwise they would not spend 80% of their broadcast talking about him.
It’s further obvious that most of you posting on this site believe the same or you would not get so angry.
Therefore, you assume that we who don’t support Obama do so based on race, gender, party or wrong information. That last one you continue to hammer with: It really does pay to be an independent thinker. And that’s the irony of those who do support Obama. Those of us who you accuse of not being independent thinkers see Obama clearest, stripped from his rhetoric, his race, his gender and his party. I think it rather arrogant of you to conclude that I don’t have the ability to think independently.
BTW, I don’t see any anger here .. only those that don’t agree with you.. is that you’re definition of angry?
Apr 30, 2008 - 6:07 pm 75. Misanthropicus:macey RE Misanthropicus RE Angry African:
Misanthropicus wrote: “As an African, you can describe the above on racial lines, as hatred and dislike – I describe your position as yet another example of the entitlement sesnse which pervades mr. Obama’s following.
Macey: “Where does Angry African mention race in his comment. Is this what happens when you think independently.” [???]
Macey,
Apr 30, 2008 - 6:14 pm 76. Believer:1) Angry African provided the link http://angryafrican.net/ 2008/04/30/ stand-up-for-it/ on his prior & still existing post in this thread. I examined the offering and based on the results I issued the above & correct
description of his position;
2) see? sound research habits; you can review the matter and clear me of bias and blind assumptions charges – and here a bonus suggestion for you: stop the variations of “[...] is this what happens when you think independently,” on your posts. You did it thrice in this thread, they’re strange, particularly coming from one who doesn’t seem accustomed with the independent thinking thing.
When a man speaks truthfully, from his heart, words flow freely. He doesn’t labor – taking the greatest care – with every thought and word.
It was agony to watch Mr. Obama. Especially as he took questions. You could almost see the self-editing process. And the thought of listening to him for four more years – taking 5 minutes to answer what should have taken 5 seconds – is a nightmare I don’t want visited on any of us. Even liberals.
The divorce from Wright should have taken place years ago. There were no surprises from Wright, except perhaps that he’d lifted the veil and exposed the rank politician Obama is. But Wright bought him credibility in the community he was wooing at the time. And a voting base for the state and US senate seats he’s won.
He’s wooing a different community now – a far bigger community – and he forgot to leave this one behind. There are others, too, with whom he should never have had contact. And when those are more fully exposed, to the broader public, he’ll have to take to the microphone and face the press and nation again.
A man for whom character and judgment are a staple in his life speaks openly and freely about himself and his life. There is nothing to hide.
Have you never wondered why we all keep asking, “Who is this guy?”
Apr 30, 2008 - 6:24 pm 77. Marc:Actually, according to percentages, McCain could easily win without the black vote. He’ll get the hispanic vote because of his immigration stance and their social conservativeness. Think: Catholic. Of course, you’re assuming that all blacks will vote for Obama because he is black and liberal, which is as myopic as saying all of group x is a certain way because of y. What about the conservative black vote? Where is Bill Cosby in all this? It’s easy to throw around the word “independent” when you think you’re the independent one and everyone else isn’t. They don’t call McCain a maverick for no reason. He’s more independent than any of the liberal candidates. As far as the statement that Obama wins higher-educated whites, I’d like to remind everyone that education does not beget intelligence…
Apr 30, 2008 - 6:30 pm 78. Dumaur-Smith:Macey wrote: “The issue is not whether or not I am supporting Obama or McCain. The issue is that people make decisions based on racial and gender biases and party affiliation and misinformation.”
Here’s the problem with trying to talk to an identity-politics-jock. If you oppose their arguments or candidates, it can only because you are prejudiced against one of their identity groups–there are no other issues. You oppose tax cuts, you obviously favor the rich over the poor: you want free trade, you obviously favor management over labor; you oppose Obama, it must be because of his identity as a black. There are no issues that do not reduce to identity conflicts in identity politics. Therefore, for an identity-politics jock like Macey, as an opponent you arrive at the debate already defined as a racist, sexist, fat capitalist, whatever, when, ironically, identity politics is purely about racism, sexism, group identity cliches, etc.
Apr 30, 2008 - 6:48 pm 79. sinz52:macey asks: “What part of Hagee’s value system and or belief system and or “world views” did McCain feel lined up with his own?”
Support of Israel, maybe?
Hagee is a strong supporter of Israel.
McCain is a strong supporter of Israel.
Jews are glad to get whatever Christians they can to support Israel. They are grateful to Hagee for his support. Go ask them.
Now: What part of Wright’s value system lined up with Obama?
Apr 30, 2008 - 9:30 pm 80. Bill Bradley:Afrocentrism?
Black Liberation Theology?
Well, that doesn’t speak to your great romantic experience.
>Believer:
Apr 30, 2008 - 9:50 pm 81. Believer:When a man speaks truthfully, from his heart, words flow freely. He doesn’t labor – taking the greatest care – with every thought and word.
Aah, Mr. Bradley, there you are again.
“Romantic experience.” Never would I have thought that would occur to you. The language of love and all.
But do tell, I’m so very curious: What does one say to a mirror?
May 1, 2008 - 2:19 am 82. Ed Wallis:Steve Gill: “Obama has essentially accomplished the same thing (i.e. Clinton’s “Sister Souljah moment”) with his denunciation of Wright.”>/I>
HORSEHOCKEY.
To paraphrase….
OBAMA: “I can no more disavow Rev. Wright than I can the black community.”
OBAMA: “I’m shocked and disappointed. This is not the man I have known for 20 years.”
OBAMA: “…JUST WORDS?!”
Puh-lease, Steve!!! This has nothing to do with Monica’s ex-boyfriend’s “moment.” Bill Clinton did not spend 20 years choosing an intern as his mentor and consulting her as his policy and spiritual advisor. …and then claiming afterwards he had “heard nothing” and was “shocked! SHOCKED!!”
Obama is a dangerous charlatan, and those who make excuses for him are disgusting enablers, nothing less.
May 1, 2008 - 12:01 pm 83. Hanley Smith-Downs:I would respect the comments against Obama if the commenter’s had enough character to admit that there is nothing…absolutely nothing….that could persuade them to vote for Obama or anyone like him.
My reasoning? I believe in personal responsibility, I do not like people who play the victim. That is why I hold the pastor, the person who uttered the words, responsible not Obama. To hold Obama responsible for other people’s behavior goes against what we are suppose to be against. Therefore, something else must be animating this story for soo long!
I have never seen where we hold someone, even a political candidate, responsible for what someone outside his/her immediate circle has said or done. Nor do we hold the person responsible for something his neighbor did 40 years ago in which he did not participate.
I am a proud Republican, but this Rev. Wright, Ayers, stuff is precisely the type of politics that Obama is running against and people are voting for him. Obama has not played the victim(called for reparations and things of that nature) and his message is reasonating and if we want to win the White House and Congress then we better stop pointing the racial card finger at people while pointing one of our own!
May 1, 2008 - 3:51 pm 84. so saddened:hanley smith-downs says he would respect the comments against obama if the commenters would admit there is nothing that would persuade them to vote for obama “or anyone like him.” it’s unclear what he means by “anyone like him” – race? his inexperience? his dishonesty?
i shall assume he did not mean race, because that stupidity would make the question unworthy of an answer.
i will “admit” that there is nothing, absolutely nothing, that could persuade me to vote for obama. he has a lifelong history that tells me he cannot be trusted, he is lost in his own skin and stumbling around looking for an identity, and what identity he has found has come from the horrendous choices he has made in terms of friends and mentors. in addition, he has run the most dishonest campaign i have witnessed (and i’ve witnessed 4 decades of them). he has shamelessly played the race card, while pretending that his opponents are the ones doing it. he has whined when the truth was revealed (how dare someone actually record his “cling” words and report them…).
obama has received more media support than any candidate could have dreamed of. msnbc has become the all-obama network and cnn is pretty close to that. they provide hour upon hour of free air time, fawn to the nth degree, come up with the spin for him if he hasn’t provided it. yet he thinks he’s been in a tough campaign.
there is so much more, such as rezko, auchi, ayers/dohrn, the new info about money laundering, etc. but the basic answer to hanley-smith-downs is yes – there is nothing that could persuade me to vote for obama. all the posturing and speeches and spin in the world cannot cover up the truth.
May 1, 2008 - 11:58 pm 85. Believer:Hanley Smith-Downs:
Here’s a version of something I wrote a few weeks ago:
I wish Obama would bow out of the race. I wish he’d go home with his wife and, together with their children, learn to love this country. To be grateful for all they’ve been given. And take a good, long look into his own heart. And with God’s help, learn to love the sinners who’ve wounded him throughout his life.
I wish he’d see America as a country, while not perfect, still a wonderful place to live and raise a family. Rather than try to change her, respect the wisdom of her founding, and be grateful that there have been – and stll are – men and women selfless enough to assure her security and our blessed freedoms.
And then when he realizes all these blessings, I wish he’d go back to Trinity United Church of Christ. And I wish he’d become the leader he says he is. I wish he’d become the “unifer” he’s claimed is his calling.
I wish he’d stand up in the congregation, and when they start to sing his praises (as I once saw on YouTube “Obama, Hallelujah”) he’d shake his head and say, “No.” I wish he’d turn and point to the Cross. And tell them, “There is the source of your salvation.”
I wish he’d tell them they’ve been told a lie. For it is not in lamentng our wounds and the “enemy” who has inflicted them that will raise us from our hellish existence, but in forgiving those who’ve sinned against us. As God has forgiven us our sins against Him.
If Obama were to do all this, and return to political life, I believe he’d have a record of leadership – and accomplishment – he could show us. Instead of a record of self-serving, politically motivated machinations.
For I think we’d see a different Obama. A different Michelle. And a different congregation. I believe they’d no longer look to government to provide for them or to give them what they think they lack; they’d realize that now they had all they’d ever need, no matter their circumstances.
And Mr. Obama would have a different political agenda. One that would earn my vote.
May 2, 2008 - 10:45 am 86. Justin:@ Hanley Smith-Downs:
Wrong. Initially, I WAS going to vote for Obama when he first came out. He seemed so inspirational. That was before he had a past and when nobody knew a thing about him because there was seemingly nothing to know. It wasn’t until later, when he began to have a past, that I realized that he was not what the media was presenting him as.
And you seem to not understand something, and I am not sure how it is you don’t get it. You claim to be a Republican, so it is not like you have a vested interest in being willfully ignorant. Still, here we go again with the explaining. I DO NOT BLAME OBAMA FOR WHAT WRIGHT SAID! No more than I blame a man who attended a KKK rally every Sunday for twenty years for what the head KKK member was saying. No, what I would blame him for was showing up at the rally, bringing his own children to that rally, choosing to be very close friends with the leader, choosing to have other, similarly unsavory friends, and marrying someone who is also questionable. What I blame OBAMA for are the CHOICES that he CHOSE to make. He CHOSE to go to a church that was BURNING with RACIAL HATRED for 20 YEARS. He CHOSE other things as well.
May 3, 2008 - 10:24 pm 87. Greg Oceanside:I don’t disagree with Wright’s statement that Obama is a politician and does what politicians do in order to get elected. Its equally possible that he attended his church for the same reason. Obama hadn’t the same upbringing as those in his church but needed them so as to appear as one of them. On the other hand, his association with far-left loons like Bill Ayres, Wright, and even his own wife also lead me to believe he actually identifies with their beliefs and values. His voting record is also consistent with the far-left.
May 4, 2008 - 7:04 am