Obama’s Doing Just Fine with Women, Thank You
His problem is that he's losing altitude with everyone else.
Conservatives are ecstatic over the continuing reports of Obama’s problems with women and — more specifically — with Hillary supporters. But how deep are these troubles? No, let’s ask a better question: What proof do we have that this is real? You know, real enough to cause women to turn their back on the Democrats and vote for John McCain, a man who’s against equal pay for women — blaming his dissent on “frivolous lawsuits” — opposes choice, and doesn’t respect our civil rights?
Not long ago I interviewed Carly Fiorina, drawing this issue out over and over again. I’ve talked to people inside the McCain camp about it. It’s not just about Ledbetter, which the more in tune understand, including Fiorina. It’s about families, which often need a woman’s income. It would seem obvious that when it comes down to women Obama will win out. So what’s with all the stories claiming otherwise, especially where HRC supporters are concerned?
Maureen Dowd of the New York Times waxed insultingly poetic recently, using the term “dead-enders” for recalcitrant Hillary supporters, a phrase first used by TNR in an interview where I was quoted on something else, but got tagged anyway for coining the term. Dowd talking specifically about the HRC women who are being wooed by Barack Obama, but still won’t commit.
It is a truth universally acknowledged that Barack Obama must continue to grovel to Hillary Clinton’s dead-enders, some of whom mutter darkly that they will not only not vote for him, they will never vote for a man again.
Obama met for an hour Tuesday with three dozen top Hillaryites at a hotel here, seeking their endorsement and beguiling their begrudging. He opened the session by saying that he knew there had been frustration about what they saw as sexism during the primary. …
So, Obama went to see 36 “Hillaryites,” giving a nod to their “frustration” about the sexism displayed during the primary. Something that was proven, by the way. So, we’ve got 36 women. Check.
But wait a minute. Emily’s list founder Ellen Malcom weighed in on the same meeting:
“He talked about his concerns about some of the sexism in the course of the campaign,” said Ellen Malcolm, president of the political group EMILY’s List and a key Clinton supporter. “But essentially the meeting was forward-looking.”
Not exactly the same take as Ms. Dowd’s, now is it? Hey, but “unity” and women rallying around Obama, especially if they’re HRC supporters, isn’t as big a story.
Nor is a story like Susan Estrich wrote that some HRC fundraisers are holding a grudge because they won’t be “equal” to Obama’s money people. Seriously? Or that some of the moneybags are whining because, well, this is just too stupid: “All they want is invitations to events and the trinkets and titles that prove they are part of the team, the sort of things that are easy to give and ridiculous to withhold.” Democrats are going to help elect John McCain because Lynn Forester de Rothschild, who has the nerve to call Obama “aloof,” won’t get, for instance, an ambassadorship under Obama?
These may be important gossip items, but just as important was the Los Angeles Times headline in an article entitled: Women voters lining up behind Obama McCain hopes to lure Clinton loyalists. But polls show they are staying Democratic.
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Taylor Marsh is a political analyst, talk radio personality, and author. She can be found online at TaylorMarsh.com.
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77 Comments
1. Frank:McCain isn’t defining Obama. He’s just showing everyone who Obama is.
Aug 5, 2008 - 10:14 am 2. WJ:Just clicking on two of the emebedded links makes me suspect that this author is not very accurate. The part about PUMA where “…outing their Republican members” and “Republican Shills” are provided links, ultimately go to the same place. A blog entry by self-described Republican stating support for PUMA.
This is the best evidence the author could come up with to back her statements?? One blog entry? That is pretty weak stuff.
Makes me wonder about the accuracy of the rest of the information in the opinion piece.
Also why is the word “swiftboating” used in conjunction with “smears”. That is left-wing media word usage. Swiftboating means bringing to light certain truths about people who claim otherwise. For example, National Enquirer is swiftboating John Edwards.
Aug 5, 2008 - 10:30 am 3. CFB:Taylor is dishonest, as usual.
McCain is not against “equal pay for women.” He’s against taxpayers funding the government to be the salary police and prevent businesses from paying people what they’re worth, rather than what the government decides they’re worth based on some worthless rubric instead of the market.
Taylor, if you ran a business, would you want the government forcing you to pay a lazy woman the same as a hard-working man? And if you did not pay the man more, and he was worth more in the marketplace, and he left, and you couldn’t hold on to employees, and the business went under…would this help the woman (who made bad decisions and was left having to support a family alone)? Huh?
Just wondering. Like most lefties, your worldview is naive, impractical and dangerous and you don’t seem to have thought it through at all. So why do you have a forum for your drivel? That’s the relevant question here.
Aug 5, 2008 - 10:38 am 4. Olivia:Taylor I don’t know why you are so drunk on Obama Kool-Aid. But you have got to be kidding. My mother a die-hard Democrat, now an Independent, is voting for McCain. She even quotes Reagan “I didn’t leave the Democratic Party, the Party left me.”
It’s not just “women’s issues” that concerns women. Obama has no substantive plans for anything. And citing a few Republicans in PUMA is silly. The fact that they jumped on a ship with millions of disaffected Democrats is smart. You would like to put focus on the result instead of the cause. PUMA and other Just Say No Deal groups do not like what the far left wing of the Democratic Party is selling. And these people are not lunatics because they put their country before their party, gender and race.
Aug 5, 2008 - 11:23 am 5. huxley:According to a new Zogby poll: Among women, McCain gained 10 percentage points. Obama now leads 43-38… http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/46457.html
Except for one reference to a Rasmussen poll in which Obama is losing ground overall, Taylor Marsh’s evidence is small-scale to anecdotal. I suspect that Obama is losing ground with everyone, including women.
Aug 5, 2008 - 11:30 am 6. Mike O:Realize that the PUMA group has several thousand activists in it; any single posting on the main blogs there get hundreds of responses. I’m not sure ‘Sweetie’ Obama is winning over many of these.
If only a small percentage of the Hillary supporters switch to McCain or even just stay home, Barack has a serious problem. The money aspects are probably less worrisome though, since he’s getting plenty of funds from ‘unique’ sources, like the Gaza Strip.
http://politicalinquirer.com/2008/08/01/obamas-illegal-contributions-problem/
Aug 5, 2008 - 11:34 am 7. Maurice:Performance among key demos is relative when compared to historical norms. Looking back at previous GOP presidential victories Obama is far from “Crushing” McCain among women. The GOP is the “Daddy” party and the Dems are the “Mommy” party, Democrats almost always excel among women – especially single women – yet the latest poll demos show McCain gaining in all groups against Obama, including women.
Also if PUMA is a Republican front group someone should tell the folks running it! The founders are all long time Democrats, and I know at least a dozen women – all family members and friends – are Democrats and who were staunch Hillary supporters that are now PUMA’s here in Missouri. 11 of the 12 I know won’t be voting for Barry period, they either won’t vote or they’ll vote for McCain. The last one is concvinced that Barry O is the lesser of two evils, but not by much.
Aug 5, 2008 - 11:39 am 8. Olivia:Also it is not surprising that unmarried women are in Obama’s corner. It has long been the case that unmarried women skew left while married women, especially ones with children, skew right.
There are some theories as to why this is. One is that single women and divorced women are so risk-averse that they look to big government as their “knight in shining armor.” It would be difficult to vote for the conservative if you thought the purpose of government is to do everything for you.
Aug 5, 2008 - 11:39 am 9. Jeff:equal pay for equal work and experience … thats McCains stance … and amazingly thats the stance that anyone with a business has as well …
Aug 5, 2008 - 11:47 am 10. tim maguire:Quite right, WJ. It’s a bad sign when an article’s own links don’t back up the article’s assertions. And of course we get a rehash of the leftist rewriting of history over the Swift Boaters. It apparently matters not a whit that the Swift Boaters were right on every issue they raised (some were important, others were petty, but all have so far held up to scrutiny).
But this article really falls apart in its initial assumption–that McCain has to win these women voters for Obama to lose them. Wrong, there is a third, almost as damaging to Obama, and very likely outcome–that many of these women who tell the polsters they still prefer Obama will decide on election day that they have better things to do with their time than go to the polls because they don’t feel all that strongly about him anymore.
You see, in the general election, unlike in the Michigan primary, Obama won’t be awarded the votes he doesn’t get.
Aug 5, 2008 - 11:48 am 11. dirigible:Long on wishful thinking, light on fact.
And let’s get with the times – a sentence like “Something that was proven, by the way” doesn’t fly nowadays without support. Sources? LINKS?
Aug 5, 2008 - 12:06 pm 12. notropis:“His problem is that he’s losing altitude with everyone else.”
In other words, “men.”
Aug 5, 2008 - 12:17 pm 13. John:Olivia:
Aug 5, 2008 - 12:23 pm 14. Mary in LA:My mother and sister are democrats, mom being a die-hard old time democrat. They too are voting for McCain because Obama is just tooooo liberal for them to take. I wonder how many more families this is happening in because they are not the only ones. I live in liberal Maryland and the white female democrats that I know are about 80% in favor of McCain.
Well, *this* woman is voting for McCain. The author of this article should know that the plural of “anecdote” is not “evidence”.
Aug 5, 2008 - 12:24 pm 15. Taylor Marsh:Always entertaining to read comments here. One of the latest surveys is on the second page for those who missed it. I presume none of you are worried at all that Obama beats McCain 2 to 1 among lower income people?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/03/AR2008080301969_pf.html
As for equal pay, McCain’s response is even more laughable than the excuses you give. He wants women to get more training and he hopes to stop “frivolous lawsuits.” Also typical that you don’t think I have a business. Interesting, as well as telling.
But I do appreciate your comments and taking the time to read the piece.
Oh, as for why I’m voting for Obama, he’s the Democrat in the race, since my candidate, HRC, lost. He also can at least identify Pakistan’s borders, and the last time I looked, he most definitely didn’t serve his wife up for a topless “Miss Buffalo Chip” contest. Yep, that’ll win over the ladies.
http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=28169
Keep hope alive, baby.
Aug 5, 2008 - 12:27 pm 16. Night Owl:So Obama is losing ground because McCain and the GOP are duping ignorant Americans with their unfair ad campaigns inaccurately defining Obama? You mean he’s not a celebrity seeking narcissist with a god complex?
As usual with the Dems, the flaws in the candidate are brushed aside as inconsequential, as compared to the flaws of the unenlightened electorate. And they wonder why they lose elections.
John McCain is not defining anyone. Heck, some people feel he is not campaigning at all. Obama, with all his posturing and preening, is defining himself clearly enough. And apparently less and less people like what they see.
Aug 5, 2008 - 12:30 pm 17. Taylor Marsh:Hey Night Owl, actually, I never said McCain’s ads were “unfair” or “duping ignorant Americans.” I won’t waste another link here, but if you’d be willing to open up your mind a bit and check what I’ve written you’d see that the only frustrating thing about McCain’s ads for me is that they seem to be working with some.
Thanks for chiming in, Mary in LA. Always interested in hearing how women are voting this year.
Aug 5, 2008 - 12:46 pm 18. Assistant Village Idiot:Ms. Marsh, you didn’t answer the comments.
I have long maintained that liberals put more effort into the cleverness of their response than into its reasonableness. Example #6976
Aug 5, 2008 - 12:56 pm 19. McSame:You guys might not want to get out of bed the day after the election. Quit portraying McCain the guy you even want. I will take the new guy who won a close primary than the old guy who was awarded it by default. Just know that all you people are just wishful thinking. BO will be president come next January you can take that to the bank. BTW- you aren’t a democrat if you are even considering voting for McCain so please no more anecdotal stories about some democrat you know.
Aug 5, 2008 - 12:58 pm 20. Brad:Hey Taylor, I think John Kerry was doing better in August ‘04 polls. Shouldn’t that worry you?
The thing that doomed Kerry was his stupid, mindless comment about voting for the $80 billion before voting against it. Obama has a sackful of such stupid things–from clinging to religion and guns, to proper tire inflation, to NAFTA…any number of the plethera of flipflops and stammering off-teleprompter uhs and duhs, and then the honorable racist Rev. Wright thrown on top. The ads he’s given to McCain will sink him with ease.
Just wait for the debates, too, when he has to answer questions off the cuff and unscripted.
He’ll make Bush look like the head of Toastmasters.
Aug 5, 2008 - 12:58 pm 21. John:Taylor Marsh: As a typical liberal I see you can’t help but to get in the gutter yourself. With your last comment you went from having a debate to not being worthy of a response. So this is my last responce and your article is dead to me.
Aug 5, 2008 - 1:02 pm 22. Anonymous:“Equal pay for women” is simply dishonest language. Neither McCain, I, nor any fair-minded person would not support making sure a woman and a man, doing the same job with equal qualifications, are paid the same.
What we object to is the feminist redefinition of “equal work” to compare apples and oranges. If the market says lumberjacks (a male-dominated profession) should be paid more than kindergarten teachers (a female-dominanted profession), then that’s what those jobs should pay. “Equal pay for equal work” means that we define “lumberjack” and “teacher” as equivalent, and require equalization of pay so the men (as a whole) don’t get paid more than the women.
Control for the legitimate differences in male-female workforce participation, and the pay differences shrink almost to insignificance.
Aug 5, 2008 - 1:07 pm 23. tim maguire:He also can at least identify Pakistan’s borders
Now if only he could identify Illinois’ borders!
Aug 5, 2008 - 1:16 pm 24. wicked:I know tons of PUMA members and not one is or ever has been a repub. All are dems or recently former dems. So you just keep telling yourself that the former Clinton supporters are lining up to support the faux democrat. Yes Virginia there is a Santa Claus!
Aug 5, 2008 - 1:17 pm 25. christina:I think this piece is brilliantly written. and right.
Who do these people think they are?
Obama is polling better with women than Kerry AND Gore did. http://pewresearch.org/pubs/902/should-women-worry-obama
and he is outpolling McCain by 11 pnts with women voters.
A big reason Obama and McCain are so “close” in the polls is because all of the press McBush has received the past week. And when McCain is down in the polls, the polls don’t matter- but when Obama is running even- then suddenly polls matter lol. Ridiculous.
If these women want to vote for someone whose voting record on womens issues is more transparent than ceran wrap (http://www.womenforbarackobama.com/McCain.html) then it’s your grave.
But don’t expect pats on the back because of your stupidity.
The diatribe and vitriol in these comments are typical of pumas.
They want respect for their “choice” but they don’t want to give respect to anyone who may shed a little light on their tightly lipped secret. It involves cutting off their noses to spite their face. Too bad it’s their nose, because now if McCain wins- they be able to smell the shit hitting the fan.
Aug 5, 2008 - 1:18 pm 26. Patrick Hynes:Taylor:
The McCain campaign is very appreciative of the hospitality and open-mindedness you have shown in the General Election.
You might want to check out some new data from Zogby:
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/251/story/46457.html
Among the findings: “Among women, McCain gained 10 percentage points. Obama now leads 43-38″
McCain is clearly making inroads with women voters.
Aug 5, 2008 - 1:32 pm 27. grannygoose:Only the ignorant will continue this diatribe. Obama is the only one, if you are a democrat. But all I see are whiners who lost the primary.
Taylor’s article was a very good one.
Aug 5, 2008 - 1:39 pm 28. Night Owl:Sorry Ms. Marsh. Granted you never made any such claims. My main point was that this election is Obama’s to lose. And, IMO, if he loses he really has no one to blame but himself.
As for the ads, McCain simply jumped on the bandwagon. People have been mocking Obama and his fans for the messiah image for the past few weeks. If the ads appear to be working it’s because they picked up on a theme that had already been defined in the public arena by Obama’s swooning followers and the fawning, tingling media.
BTW you make an excellent point that Obama needs to stop running an inevitability campaign. On that I agree with you. And please feel free to link here again. I enjoy reading thoughtful, intelligent, sincere opinions, even if I may disagree. An echo chamber is ultimately a boring and futile place.
Aug 5, 2008 - 1:46 pm 29. Taylor Marsh:Hey Christina, women get it, that’s why McCain’s faltering. His Sturgis stunt, serving up Cindy for a topless beauty pageant, won’t help.
Hi Patrick, appreciate you taking the time to chime in. I also appreciate the back and forth I’ve been afforded with the McCain campaign, especially the interview with Ms. Fiorina.
No doubt McCain’s gain is something Obama needs to watch.
It’s a Democratic year, but anyone who thinks this raise is locked up isn’t paying attention. Though I did get a chuckle out of McCain telling Vice President Dick Cheney to stay home for the convention. The appetite for change, which means “throw the bums out,” also gives us the wind at our backs. But you already know that, Patrick, which is why you guys are hitting Obama so hard.
Aug 5, 2008 - 1:48 pm 30. Dane:“BTW- you aren’t a democrat if you are even considering voting for McCain so please no more anecdotal stories about some democrat you know.”
This is a self-sealing fallacy (”No true Scotsman”).
Not everyone in the country is a mindless party hack. Some of us still are able to think for ourselves and choose each candidate based on their respective virtues and flaws, instead of just pulling the big lever marked D or R.
Aug 5, 2008 - 1:51 pm 31. Thomass:I’m not for equal pay because I’m not a socialist shill… I imagine that is part of McCain’s reasoning too.
Come on, it is just a means to have society (re: your group being the hope) set salaries based on the false ideology that failure to end up with equal results, based on groupings identified by leftists, means automatic discrimination was in play… rather than… supply and demand, free association, negotiation based on personal merit and achievement.
Forced equality, for the excellent and the mediocre (re: your followers; voting on self interest) is the goal. No thanks. I’m good at what I do and I should be paid more than the average person for doing it.
Aug 5, 2008 - 1:57 pm 32. Thomass:Taylor Marsh:
“He also can at least identify Pakistan’s borders”
Heck, he better know where the countries he wants to invade are…
Aug 5, 2008 - 1:59 pm 33. ST333:The woman vote, the black vote, the latino vote, the gay vote……all sound condescending and categorical to me but then again I’m a white guy so maybe I’m just jealous my demographic doesn’t get catered to.
Aug 5, 2008 - 2:03 pm 34. dj:Why does Taylor, grannygoose,christina et, al; ignore the Zogby poll but Marsh gives us a reference to an article that was written a millinium ago during the primary? Oh I know they dislike women of principle who know this guy is the worst kind of Chicago Poll- he’s a SCUD (socilist, communist, utopian,dumbell). By the way how is his affirmative action degrees marked- “since we let him in we had to pass him”.
Aug 5, 2008 - 2:14 pm 35. justme:I used to be a democ-rat, but I am now a republican. I am starting to see the light and it is looking good for the republi-CANS.
Aug 5, 2008 - 2:32 pm 36. justme:Who is Tayor Mash? I have never heard of her before! Millions of hours spent on this election by people that should go out and get jobs rather than speculate and spew regarding the elections. Get a job and start saving for Obama’s taxes!!!!!!! You know Obama likes the high gas prices, use this time for a second or even third job!!!!!
Aug 5, 2008 - 2:35 pm 37. ladykay:Who is Tayor Mash? I have never heard of her before! Millions of hours spent on this election by people that should go out and get jobs rather than speculate and spew regarding the elections. Get a job and start saving for Obama’s taxes!!!!!!! You know Obama likes the high gas prices, use this time for a second or even third job!!!!! I am proudly voting for John McCain for President!!!!
Aug 5, 2008 - 2:38 pm 38. christina:st333, we’ve been catering to ‘your category” since this countries inception. Maybe you could give a little.
Aug 5, 2008 - 2:40 pm 39. TriciaNC:Taylor is a racist! Taylor Marsh is a racist!
Taylor is worse than John McCain…
She showed a picture of Obama with not just one, but two WHITE WOMEN.
They tried to brand McCain a racist for showing Obama with two white women and NOT even in the same shot.
Shame on you, Taylor Marsh.
LOL
Aug 5, 2008 - 3:04 pm 40. jvon:Hi Taylor,
Glad to hear you acknowledge that McCain’s ads are working. It makes me feel better about sending him money for more of them.
Keep up the good work,
J
Aug 5, 2008 - 3:09 pm 41. cv:Refusing to hit back? You’re joking, right?
Aug 5, 2008 - 3:18 pm 42. cv:McCain pays his female and male staff the same, Obama doesn’t. I guess Obama needs a law to make him do it!
Aug 5, 2008 - 3:21 pm 43. Sandi:I will be writing in Hillary’s name. The sexist treatment of Hillary, the media’s overzealous coverage of Obama, the DNC’s pampering and protecting him and public treating him like a rock star. I don’t dislike or blame Obama. He’s taking advantage of what was handed to him – just like any politician. But there is more reason for me to vote for a qualified woman for president for the first time and make that statement than vote for Obama. I have always voted and “followed” the party, always attended caucuses and conventions, gave money and sometimes worked on campaigns. I figure it’s up to all of those “new people” who didn’t vote or contribute in the past to figure out how to get him elected – if that’s what they want so badly. It’s my turn to do just as I please. I have lived through Nixon, Reagan and Bush years. A McCain presidency will be easy!
Aug 5, 2008 - 3:52 pm 44. KJ:Concerning equal pay…guess who actually walks the walk instead of simply spouting rhetoric?
Hint: it’s NOT Senator Obama
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=31833
Aug 5, 2008 - 4:14 pm 45. christina:cv- do you have source other than noquarter or fringe puma/gop shill site to back up those accusations?
Aug 5, 2008 - 4:20 pm 46. iamnotastepfordwife:I’m not getting the equal pay thing. Is this comparing jobs that are apples to apples? I know a lot of nurses and teachers…both male and female. They are paid on the same scale, by tenure, etc. Gender has nothing to do with it.
Now if you’re comparing typically female tradional jobs like a secreatary and compare it to say a Teamster truck driver that is tradionally male….The male does tend to make more.
YOu can spin numbers anyway you want to make them work for your argument. I just haven’t seen in this day and age where women are paid less for the same job.
And let’s talk about women…Many small business owners are women. The last thing a small business owner needs are goverment laws enforced that make it even harder for her to get ahead.
Obama wants a big brother socialist society where goverment gets involved in every aspect of our lives.
Your article makes no sense.
Aug 5, 2008 - 4:32 pm 47. Elementary Teacher:My mother is a life-long Democrat. She’s voting McCain. I was a life-long Democrat until I decided that they’ve lost their minds. I’m voting McCain. Daughter is an Independent. She’s voting McCain.
There may be some women that are blindly following the party line without taking a hard look at his accomplishments (or lack thereof) and his associates, but it isn’t anybody that I know.
Aug 5, 2008 - 4:34 pm 48. John Samford:“I presume none of you are worried at all that Obama beats McCain 2 to 1 among lower income people?”
No. It is too early to be worried by polls. See me the 3rd week of October. By then the polls will be getting close to the mark. I will be surprized if Ohhhhhh……BAAMA is on them. I expect Billery to do what FDR did and steal the nomination at the convention. With her next door neighbor, Soros fronting the money, she can out bid BhO.
Besides, those lower income types won’t be able to afford gasoline to get to the polls. I’m more worried about the Diebold machines then low income voters.
Aug 5, 2008 - 4:44 pm 49. huxley:Taylor Marsh — The Pew poll data you quote is from June 2008. We are talking about the ground Obama has been losing in the past week or so.
Otherwise, I agree with you. If we hold the November election last June, Obama is doing great with the women and the lower-income voters. He will be a shoo-in.
Aug 5, 2008 - 5:23 pm 50. Jesus warrior:Labor Day is when conservatives and independents really start paying attention to the issues. Obama have flipped flopped so much Michelle have to remind him he is married. In a book he wrote, that conservatives are not going to buy and most independents do not care about yet, Obama can be the first canidate to write himself out of an office with his own pen.The conservative surge does not usually occur until after Labor Day. Obama is destroying his campaign all by himself, Mc Cain shall will by default.
Aug 5, 2008 - 5:38 pm 51. iamnotastepfordwife:Anyone who supports Obama simply because he is a dem is mindless and stupid.
These lemming like democrats call the democrats that will not vote for Obama delusional, living in an alternate universe etc…..
Meanwhile if a republican says they plan on voting for Obama…well in the closeminded world of these “mindless lemming like dems,” that makes perfect sense.
Aug 5, 2008 - 5:52 pm 52. David P:He is doing a fine job of looking more & more shady everyday.
Aug 5, 2008 - 5:58 pm 53. Daerken D Duck:The lot of you are misrepresenting the wage equality argument in a straw man. Women’s rights groups aren’t saying that lumberjacks should be paid the same as teachers or anything as overtly socialist as that. What they are promoting is the equalization of wages in the same field based on age of the worker. Their argument is that women of the same age in the same field should be paid the same as their male counterparts. They parade the disparity in wages as a glass ceiling and evidence of male chauvinism amongst other things. What they fail to account for is the fact that women as a group have put in less hours in their fields at the same age as their male counterparts who have not had to take time off from career for family reasons. Women want businesses to compensate them for time they have spent at home raising children as if they had spent that time in the professional field. I’m not trying to diminish the importance of properly taking care of a family but it’s simply not right to expect to count it as job training, unless your chosen field is directly related to the skills you practiced while not actively pursuing your chosen career. Compare the wages of men who have taken a similar amount of time out of the field as women and the wage disparity is reversed, with men getting the short end.
Aug 5, 2008 - 6:33 pm 54. notropis:“He also can at least identify Pakistan’s borders”
Although he doesn’t know his own state of Illinois’ borders (where’s Kentucky again? Somewhere closer to Arkansas?) or how many states are in the United States.
Aug 5, 2008 - 6:35 pm 55. fred:I would prefer to see research that goes into more depth about this and breaks it down into categories that are meaningful. WHICH women are Obama supporters and WHY? We know that they tend to be young and single, so what is it about being married and older that inclines a woman towards McCain? And the reverse.
Young women in America have opportunities and income potential that their mothers and grandmothers never had, especially if they stay in school, graduate from high school, and go on to college or tech studies and complete them.
I do stock research and cover companies that heavily hire and promote women. And pay them well, so it’s hard to find where the “equal pay” angle is coming from.
I think there’s more than meets the eye here, and I think it has more to do with the Gramscian “long march through the institutions” bearing fruit now. And not just with young, single women. Young guys under-40 tend more towards Obama too, just not in quite an overwhelming margin.
Aug 5, 2008 - 8:04 pm 56. fred:My wife and my two sisters are voting for McCain. So is my mother-in-law. My mother is a die-hard Democrat and it’s just too wrenching to vote away from the Party of Jackasses for her. She doesn’t like Obama, but party loyalty trumps everything else. My wife’s sister WAS a Reagan supporter many years ago, but she’s gone over to Obama and the Jackasses. Her reasons are cryptic and she’s the least forthcoming about them. I don’t pry, since I am used to avoiding politics around her entirely.
Aug 5, 2008 - 8:25 pm 57. richard:I am a registered Independent(do I detect an oxymoron?)who will vote for John McCain. Obama has proven to be an empty suit, devoid of any original thought or idea. A true Chicago politician…hey, Senator Obama, which one of the “57″ states will you go to next???
Aug 5, 2008 - 9:01 pm 58. Taylor Marsh:Just thought I’d check back in, because there’s an update I’d like to share. Another alleged devout Hillaryite seems awfully cozy with Rep. She raises just about as much money for Rep. as Dems. In addition, she’s got a nice little title: “Honorary Chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee’s (NRCC) Business Advisory Council, and a member of the Presidential Business Commission.” Her Democratic passions don’t seem to run all that deep. Another PUMA Republican? Could be.
http://www.yestodemocracy.com/yes_to_democracy_no_to_pu/2008/08/devout-hillrais.html
From the link above:
She spouts the usual PUMA party line. The lines about Florida and Michigan. (why is it that Clinton supporters levied those sanctions against these two states in the first place? it was a rules committee with mostly Clinton supporters who gave back 1/2 the delegates in May. Yes, even PUMA hero Harold Ickes stabbed Democracy in the back by voting to strip delegations before deciding to win his daytime Emmy and throw a fit for the C-SPAN cameras.)
Aug 5, 2008 - 11:05 pm 59. navyvet48:Women’s disenchnament at least on my part with the Democratic Party is that the party is patently undemocratic. I don’t live in a big city, I live on a dirt road. Suddenly over the last two years my vote is worth less then the AAs, college kids and the latte liberals. I live in a near a city where so many of the voters are sgift workers and can’t vote because our idiotic legislators wouldn’t fund a primary because they hadn’t heard from theie constituents….really well the vote on whether there would be a primary or caucus was never announced. And I blame it on our stupid Democratic Governor.
As the mother of a lesbian, I am slowly watching the Democratic Party dosown this voting group too. The case against Dean is going to trial. They have discriminated against this group for years. Why they vote with them is beyond me?
I could go on and on….Obama is simply too inexperienced and crooked for my likes. Taking donations from men living in the Gaza strip and trying to make it look like they donations from a non-existent town in GA is over the top. I can’t stand it. Some constituitonal law lecturer.
Obama won’t produce a “real” birth certificate, won’t produce papers from when he was a senator nor anything but a made up biography! He flips every day like a fish on the beach! Does he really have any policies he stand on for more than 5 minutes.
I know what McCain is about. I know he didn’t vote for the Cheney Energy Bill. And I know where he stands on vet votes frankly I don’t care any longer because he stands with so many others who will never vote for full funded mandatory funding for the VA. It is a no go. I will take the better of the candidates!
Aug 6, 2008 - 3:45 am 60. navyvet48:Sandi:
I will be writing in Hillary’s name. The sexist treatment of Hillary, the media’s overzealous coverage of Obama, the DNC’s pampering and protecting him and public treating him like a rock star. I don’t dislike or blame Obama. He’s taking advantage of what was handed to him – just like any politician. But there is more reason for me to vote for a qualified woman for president for the first time and make that statement than vote for Obama. I have always voted and “followed” the party, always attended caucuses and conventions, gave money and sometimes worked on campaigns. I figure it’s up to all of those “new people” who didn’t vote or contribute in the past to figure out how to get him elected – if that’s what they want so badly. It’s my turn to do just as I please. I have lived through Nixon, Reagan and Bush years. A McCain presidency will be easy!
Don’t write Hillary in, there is a good chance her vote will go to Obama. It varies by state. Check out the voting laws in your state before you do that!
Aug 6, 2008 - 3:50 am 61. navyvet48:Taylor Marsh is a has been. She wrote a book about the porn industry and now claims she is a political analyst. Her blog is nearly vacant now. She has even claimed to be a Reagan Democrat….i am certain is that was nonsense….because now she supports Obama and his big government and tax burden we will all feel no matter who you are. Hey everyone just ignore her she isn’t worth the trouble.
Aug 6, 2008 - 3:58 am 62. Ex Marshan:Taylor Marsh uses other names to post on her own blog, so that she can have voices agreeing with her. “Christina” above is one of them. All that porn makes one crazy….
Yes, the “author” paid a vanity press to publish her book about porn. And the “radio host” talks to 10 people a day through the internet, not the radio.
No wonder she likes Obama. There are a lot of similar personality flaws.
Aug 6, 2008 - 4:26 am 63. turndownobama:Breaking things down by demographics is juicy but the important thing is numbers of voters, and trends.
The margin of victory in November 2004 was 3 million.
Per CNN/OpinonResearch poll released Jy 4, NINE MILLION Hillary supporters refused to vote for Obama in November. That’s UP from seven million in early June, when 4 million planned to stay home and 3 million to vote for McCain. Iirc the June figures were in line with exit polls at the later state primaries.
A Quin. poll found only about half as many ‘holdouts’, but a level trend — little or no improvement for BO. That’s about 4.5 million. If even 3 million of those stay home, bingo.
As to new voters replacing those lost, iirc it’s the latest Ras. poll that shows now FEWER people consider themselves Democrats than a few months ago; GOP numbers stayed the same.
According to a WP/ABC poll very recently released, putting Hillary on the ticket would not help: that repels as many people as it attracts. A different poll has been quoted showing O/C ‘jumping’ 8 points against Mc/Romney, but I haven’t seen if other combinations were tried; it might be a Romney factor.
I have cites and links for most of this at turndownobama.com but I’m too tired to back and forth.
Aug 6, 2008 - 5:09 am 64. AJ:Please. Obama has problems everywhere outside the campus gates.
Emily list is a sexist pro abortion site. I would not reference them ever.
Aug 6, 2008 - 7:01 am 65. Paul From Hamburg:Taylor:
“Oh, as for why I’m voting for Obama, he’s the Democrat in the race,…”
Aug 6, 2008 - 7:21 am 66. Whateva!:Thank you. Blind loyalty to a political party is always a sign of a critically thinking, intelligent person.
I suppose HLF, riverdaughter and algere are Republicans? From my recollection, there are MANY long time Democratic activits involved with PUMA. These same people helped to raise a pretty penny for your blog. Please continue to do what you do best; smear good people. I hope getting on radio is worth your repetition. You are an oppuntunist Taylor-nothing more.
MEOW!
Aug 6, 2008 - 9:22 am 67. Dave II:“..as for why I’m voting for Obama, he’s the Democrat in the race…”
That’s one of the WORST reasons to vote for Obama!
Thank-God there are millions of Americans who put the country before their party!
Too bad you aren’t one of them, but drinking the Kool-Aid will do that to you…
PUMA!
Aug 6, 2008 - 9:28 am 68. IronCity:Dave II — The fact that you can yell “PUMA” at the end of every post, with a straight face, makes you seem ridiculous.
SHIPOOPI!
Aug 6, 2008 - 10:33 am 69. turndownobama:According to PPP:
Aug 6, 2008 - 11:07 am 70. formercrat:Raleigh, N.C. – John McCain has retaken the lead in Florida, Public Policy Polling’s
newest survey shows. [....]
McCain now has a 47-44 advantage.
Obama earns just 76% of the Democratic vote, with the folks in his party supporting
McCain disproportionately older white females.
“The Democrats crossing over to support John McCain are your prototypical Hillary
Clinton supporters,” said Dean Debnam, President of Public Policy Polling.
Who cares how many women support McCain or Obama. The candidate that wins the electorate wins the election regardless of what the gender of the voter is. There is one fact that remains and that is there are a lot of democrats that aren’t voting for Obama. Many are women that supported Hillary but there are a lot of men also. The only reason these polls are brought forth is to comfort the Taylor Marsh types that believe that the party will be unified. Our government is strapped and it’s time for all of us to stand on our own and get behind finding solutions to our energy crisis, infrastructure, our falling dollar and stop fighting the battles of the last couple of decades. It’s not a gender thing.
Aug 6, 2008 - 12:34 pm 71. fred:Right now all of the polls essentially describe snapshots of a statistical tie. I’ll settle for that for now, since John McCain still has not really begun to fight yet. Also, he and his party are way behind in fundraising, compared with Obama and the Jackasses. Now why corporate America and Wall Street are giving more money to Obama is beyond my understanding, given what his and his party’s tax proposals are. Or those millionaires and billionaires who are in league with Soros to put a Jackass in the White House.
It is still mainly the under-40 crowd, urban, and university town people who are Obama supporters. I don’t think McCain is going to win much there. The narrative templates these people filter reality through do not favor anything that is not “progressive” (the new name for various socialists).
I prefer not to approach this election from any other position but as an underdog. Because we Republicans right now ARE underdogs in this fight. This thing is far from over. I know my take on it is probably colored by the fact that I live in a Blue State, because others I discuss this with who are from Red States are much more confident of the outcome. But as much as I am more in accord with the folks in “Flyover Country” I know where the population tends to be concentrated. We have an uphill fight ahead of us.
Aug 6, 2008 - 1:59 pm 72. Zinaida:“The lot of you are misrepresenting the wage equality argument in a straw man. Women’s rights groups aren’t saying that lumberjacks should be paid the same as teachers or anything as overtly socialist as that.”
Not voting for Obama or McCain, but just to comment,
on the wage equality, feminization of poverty–which both parties won’t ever address–SMART WOMEN WOULD KNOW THIS,
but it Is interesting, the example of lumberjack and teacher shouldn’t be paid the same,
sure, keep education the lowest paid, childcare, etc., while,
outsourcing WHITE COLLAR JOBS TO
MUSLIM COUNTRIES, eg., Oman, Dubai, Indonesia, Malaysia, etc., who would do a hell of a lot more than just not pay fair wages,
yep, THAT makes a WHOLE HELL OF A LOT OF SENSE!!!
And while you’re at it, keep investing those capitalist dollars in Dubai, IRAN [oh yea] and Saudi Arabia,
hell, why not just hand them the power now? You’re doing a pretty good job of it thus far…
Tyson handing over labor day, nice little deal they got going there–replace Latino immigrant with more Somalian immigrant labor brought over to this country AND WHO ARE HARASSING, SEXUALLY AND THREATENING LATINA WOMEN daily, every day a Latina woman quits her job,
more law suits that are going to cost more WORKER DOLLARS to appease the soft Sharia,
but you people can’t let go of your chauvinism and narrow minded ideologies to see the enemy right in your face–its not just the left selling you out,
you might want to follow the money trail–and FIGURE OUT WHAT IT MEANS BY
GOVERNMENT FOR THE PEOPLE BY THE PEOPLE,
NOT,
PEOPLE FOR THE GOVERNMENT BY THE GOVERNMENT–
its no surprise that WOMEN OR MEN would be so duped by the Obama campaign,
with the ideological narrow fascist group think, this country is So prepared for TOTALITARIANISM with a minority who still get what
INDIVIDUAL AND CRITICAL THOUGHT TRULY MEANS.
and to the poster who says no one wants to pay a hard working man and a lazy woman the same–HOPE YOUR WIFE TELLS YOU TO SHOVE IT, AND TELLS YOU TO GET OFF YOUR LAZY ASS WHILE SHE IS PROBABLY
WORKING AND STILL DOING 90% OF THE UNPAID LABOR FOR YA,
sexist moron.
WOMEN WAKE UP, SERIOUSLY WAKE THE F UP. McCain might be a better choice, by narrow margin Only because it would take a simpleton to NOT see what Obama really is or who is pulling the strings behind his campaign or the ideology behind it,
but the fact is, we need some CHANGE IN THIS COUNTRY ALRIGHT–CHANGE IN THE RIGHT WING, we have enough Medieval threats in this world, without fundie right wingers, with their sexist medievalism…
you have a real chance of pulling this election, for McCain
don’t go screwing it up, with dark ages misogyny. Because what we are faced with in this country, in the free world,
YOU CAN’T AFFORD IT ANYMORE…
AND IF OBAMA’S CAMPAIGN HASN’T SHOWN THAT TO YOU, WE ARE REALLY DOOMED.
Aug 6, 2008 - 5:34 pm 73. fred:Zinaida,
I have yet to see any policy proposal in the real of economics that convinces me that Obama and his advisers truly understand how you grow an economy. What they have demonstrated is a stubborn reversion to pre-Reagan days when the tax rates on capital were much higher and top earners were paying over 70% of their income in taxes to federal and state government. Not even Russia does this. Certainly no Eastern European country wishes to repeat the errors of socialist economics. Even Western Europe is slowly realizing that flat lining or contracting your economy because of onerous taxation, high costs of capital, and strangling regulation is not the way to go. But, because the Social Democratic Western European state has such a dependent clientelle for the government teat it might be impossible to get enough of a polity to change things.
Obama has never run a company. He’s never made investment decisions that affect jobs, products, and a company model. Even Bill Clinton understood what it took to keep the economy growing. Obama shows none of Clinton’s pragmatism.
Aug 6, 2008 - 7:22 pm 74. AdrianS:Is it possible that there are two types of women. A group of women that favor Obama and the other (I would hope much larger group) reacting to this:
“But Obama’s record on abortion is extreme. He opposed the ban on partial-birth abortion — a practice a fellow Democrat, the late Daniel Patrick Moynihan, once called “too close to infanticide.” Obama strongly criticized the Supreme Court decision upholding the partial-birth ban. In the Illinois state Senate, he opposed a bill similar to the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act, which prevents the killing of infants mistakenly left alive by abortion. And now Obama has oddly claimed that he would not want his daughters to be “punished with a baby” because of a crisis pregnancy — hardly a welcoming attitude toward new life.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/01/AR2008040102197.html
http://www.nextgeneratoncorp.com/nextgenblog/
Aug 7, 2008 - 9:50 am 75. Zinaida:While I don’t support late term abortions [personally I don't believe in abortion] or post-birth INFANTICIDE, its not abortion,
I do find it a bit ironic…don’t abort,
but Hey–slow starvation, poverty, DEMONIZING women and mothers especially single parent mothers–is fine an dandy!
But then, geeesh, I mean, got to keep that cheap labor force a coming, especially those women in the Southern Cone.
and if Thats not the icing on the cake–why, we just have ‘rich’ women paying for wombs of EXPLOITED INDIAN WOMEN [INDIA] TO HAND OVER BABIES,
or, forcing via coercion the adoption industry here where Numerous low income mothers have been coerced and lied to, to hand over children they really didn’t want to give up. But hey, they are ‘dehumanized’ right?
As one who has personal experience with raising a child on my own, because OH MY FRICKIN GOD I WAS DEVIANT ENOUGH TO BELIEVE A MAN DIDN’T HAVE THE RIGHT TO SLAM HIS FIST IN MY FACE–FOR SUBMISSION TO ALL MIGHTY GOD AND HELL FIRE, AND I PAID LIKE HELL FOR THAT DECISION–AS DID MY DAUGHTER,
and Didn’t choose an abortion, I’ve seen the hypocrisy in the left AND in the pro-life on this issue, and it makes me SICK.
so spare us who know better, the all concern over the ‘fetus’, because its crock.
Just as much as its crock for the left to spew their phoney concern over women’s rights–its about money honey,
and thats ALL ITS ABOUT. Women’s wombs for sale and control, either to have children or to not too.
Oooh, did I tell you before I became Independent Leftist I was once hard core right wing, conservative Christian, and know very well, the hypocrisy, on Both ends of the spectrum. Why it was like yesterday in the South, sipping tea with good ole conservative women who loved to talk trash about the slutty women having those abortions,
and how they just deplored tax dollars for even Birth control education–never mind,
that their ole Bible Thumping Hubby was in the stripper bar stashing dollars in some gee string of sole ole gal who is stripping to support her child who she chose
NOT TO ABORT.
oh well, LOL, guess you can’t have your cake and eat it too–you Bitch because the Islamists are far more higher in POPULATION NUMBERS THAN OLE WHITEY,
you Bitch about how horrible the Sharia and Islamists are to women [meanwhile wink, wink, we got ole judges and lawyers who spend Days on corporate law boards with their WGWAG,
]
you Bitch about welfare and government programs
yet, you cut domestic violence programs, and Lordy don’t want no childcare, why them women should just keep their legs closed and LEARN HOW TO KEEP HER MAN,
[gee, sounds like Islam]
ah, but alas, meanwhile, countries like Russia are overturning abortion, because ole Islam is gaining up…and thats why ole Obama supports abortion–kid yourself not,
but the Point is, there are Two forms of idolatry–and what is driving this country into the ground isn’t just the left–its the Love of Money, because the truth is,
the Mothers and they aren’t all teens in projects on welfare, hate to burst that ole ‘myth’,
who Do have the babies and who do choose not to abort them,
you’ve done just about everything to them but STONE THEM,
so if you REALLY WANT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT ABORTION,
start respecting Mothers, WOMEN, and start GIVING A DAMN ABOUT THE CHILDREN IN THIS COUNTRY,
otherwise–you no better. Whether you kill them by the vacuum or by slow misery which does have a lot to do with the crime and anti-social behaviors, our prisons are FULL OF YOUTH,
its still the same.
And if you think not…got news for ya, check your Bibles,
one verse–mentioning Bastard [reference to child]
OVER 400 ABOUT NOT OPPRESSING THE POOR, NOT CREATING THE POOR, NOT CONSPIRING AGAINST THE POOR AND NO, ITS NOT JUST WHITE WOMEN WHO ARE MARRIED TO BILLY JO BOB EITHER,
kid yourself not–check the Concordance, and add it up.
and it might have something to do with our enemies being ‘raised up against us’
if you want to look at it in that Spiritual way.
Aug 7, 2008 - 2:02 pm 76. Dick:O.K. Hilary Clinton is a women but she has no skeleton and should not be consider seriously by anyone who is responsible of is act. An Obama Vp dosn’t worth nothing. Obama would’n be in office one year before everybody start to hate them and her name would be curse in the next election; if ever there is another real free election.
Aug 10, 2008 - 8:36 pm 77. radical_moderate:“It’s not just “women’s issues” that concerns women. Obama has no substantive plans for anything.”
And McCain HAS? Other than letting the rich keep more of their money while the middle-class flounders, exactly WHAT are McCain’s “substantive” plans? Oh yeah, bringing “high speed” internet to Appalachia; continuing the interventionist military policies of the Current Administration, and allowing more American manufacturing jobs to bleed out of the Country…not to mention rewarding the Medical Insurance Companies with more bucks for offering fewer services via his “medical insurance tax breaks” that would let Businesses off the hook for coverage, but doesn nothing form people with preexisting conditions, or those getting long in the tooth. (The kicker is that those medical tax breaks will be included as taxable income.)
Yep, those McCain “plans” Sound great to me (rolls eyes.)
Aug 14, 2008 - 1:53 pm