Obama’s Liberal Petri Dish
Even some Democrats are upset with the president treating the economy like a lab experiment.
Republicans finally have company. They have been arguing that the president lacks focus, says one thing and does the other, and has resorted to hyper-partisan attacks that would have put Lee Atwater to shame. However, their lonely quest to debunk the Obama mystique finally seems to be ending. Help is on the way.
The mainstream media is getting in on the act, pointing out, among other things, the rank hypocrisy of a omnibus stimulus plan with 8,500 earmarks followed by a speech on earmark control. Rick Klein writes:
What’s remarkable about the carefully book-ended White House events — the private signing making 8,500 earmarks law, and the public statement saying that such earmarks will never again become law with such ease — is how old Washington it all looked.
And now Democrats are joining the fray – because they are afraid for their political lives. The Hill observes that Congressional Democrats are in essence agreeing with the widespread conservative criticism of the president:
Some Democrats have started to worry that voters don’t and won’t understand the link between economic revival and Obama’s huge agenda, which includes saving the banking industry, ending home foreclosures, reforming health care, and developing a national energy policy, among much else. … While lawmakers debate controversial proposals contained in the new president’s debut budget — cutting farm subsidies, raising taxes on charitable contributions, etc. — there is a growing sense that time is running out faster than expected.
Voters “don’t understand the link” because there isn’t one — or at least not in the way the president spins it. There is nothing in the monstrous array of nationalized health care, cap-and-trade, and tax hikes contained in the budget that is going to help the economy. But there is plenty there, when coupled with the incompetency festival at Treasury, to worry consumers, investors, and employers and worsen the recession. It is not too hard to figure out what’s going on here, as former Nevada Democratic Sen. Richard Bryan explained to The Hill:
Bryan described himself as an Obama supporter who derived “intellectual satisfaction” from the president’s health care, education, and climate proposals. But he questioned whether most people connected such complicated issues to the plunging values of their retirement accounts or to soaring unemployment. … Pervasive voter uncertainty means Obama needs to emphasize short-term measures to fix the economy, Bryan said. “If there’s not a sense that we’ve reached bottom and there’s a sense of uncertainty, I think the president’s support will erode fairly rapidly,” he added.
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Jennifer Rubin is PJM's Washington, DC, editor. She also blogs at Commentary’s Contentions.
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51 Comments
1. Marc Malone:a) Maybe the Dem Congressmen are getting antsy for their personal futures.
b) Some may actually care about their country. Even the liberal Feingold spoke out.
c) Maybe it’s just because some of their investments got wiped out by the crashing of the Market.
d) Some or all of the above.
Regardless, some are quickly moving a bit to the right as they see Libs in all their unfettered rapaciousness. Some, I think, really didn’t know. Now, they are getting an inkling of what Cons have been warning of for so many years.
Mar 13, 2009 - 1:49 am 2. Still Bill:Jennifer: I think it’s beginning to dawn on an even larger segment of the American people that the man in the White House is in way over his head. Many of us knew that he was patently unqualified to be President of the United States from the moment he first announced his candidacy. I predict that in a very short time his supporters will dwindle to “wards of the state” African-Americans (”we need preferential treatment because we’re too stupid to compete with the rest of society”), and hard core big government socialists.
Mar 13, 2009 - 4:31 am 3. vivo:A Petri dish is better than a witches cauldron . . .
Mar 13, 2009 - 5:16 am 4. David Thomson:I saw immediately that Barack Obama is a shallow and poorly read individual. Unfortunately, even a number of relatively conservative and libertarian thinkers preferred to ignore reality because they were afraid of being branded as racists. Obama doesn’t have clue regarding his duties as president. And we have almost four more years to endure such incompetence. It’s going to be rough.
Megan McArdle is now expressing buyer’s remorse. She was thrilled when Obama picked her former economic professor Autan Goolsbee to be one of his main advisors. But don’t feel sorry for McArdle. On the contrary, she deserves to be severely rebuked and ridiculed. McArdle knew that Obama was a liar! He just wasn’t supposed to lie to the secular elites! Goolsbee is also the same guy who told Canadian officials that Obama was still for free trade—but had to deceive the blue collar voters in Ohio for political purposes.
Mar 13, 2009 - 6:02 am 5. uburoisc:A system fails when smart people game it. Right now, there is a lot of money to be made by taking advantage of the Federal Govt’s idiotic spending spree; if they are going to take the taxes from most of the smart people, the smart people need to line up and take that spending back by getting in a prime position at the trough. Legally exploit all the thin fissures in the new, socialist future, and that future will be broke in short order. Form a company that speciaizes in cap-and-trade, create “tree farms” in remote parts of Mexico to sell carbon offets, provide financial counseling for distressed homeowners; the money is flowing for a while from the Feds (until the Chinese finally say enough to our bonds) so go out there and get it, it’s your money after all.
Mar 13, 2009 - 7:05 am 6. bobby b:The bills have been passed, the checks are being written, and the senators and congressites of the Redistributionist Party are trying hard to keep straight faces and avoid eye contact with each other, but it’s not working and so you see pairs or small groups just suddenly break out in hysterical giggles and war-whoops as they catch each other’s eye.
Ms. Pelosi has had to constantly remind her cohorts that “we’re not done – They still have some stuff left” in order to keep enough of them around to vote on the mundane security issues, but, really, the game is over, and nobody – nobody! – ever expected such a complete and historical rout.
It was like showing up for the Super Bowl and then leaving with the Super Bowl trophy, the Stanley Cup, a Nobel Prize, a Pulitzer, all of Ed McMahon’s sweepstakes money, Big Labor’s secret telephone number, and several adoring-faced little pages to help carry it all for you.
Face it – it’s over. They’ve now stolen so much – so much more than they ever thought possible, so much more than they even thought was there – they’ve left us obligated to the brim for so far out into the future that there’s just nothing left to steal.
So, while that unity thing was great for putting the plan into place, it’s served its purpose, and now it’s time to start the Phase Two “Wow, who were those jerks who just ran through here and stole all your money?!” image-control. There’s been some small amount of confusion as signals got crossed right at the transition, but the papers and the TV people are even now scrambling back into formation and and running the interviews and hard-hitting reports that will make it clear to us over the next year that those venal Republicans appear to have looted the country again. Damn them.
Mar 13, 2009 - 7:28 am 7. JKB:I’ve seen lots of worries that Obama’s actions will let him impose the liberal agenda on America. But there is an alternative outcome possible, after having enjoyed living with the liberal agenda, Americans could reject it. The military saying about plans could be paraphrased: The liberal agenda is unlikely to survive contact with reality.
Thus being the party that said “no” to the agenda is good but a viable alternative must be out there for people to see.
Mar 13, 2009 - 7:45 am 8. Anonymous:And think about this when you think about the economy and the lack of sense. He hasn’t really even begun in dealing with foreign policy. Althought we did have a glance ineptitude in the handling of the PM from GB.
Mar 13, 2009 - 7:51 am 9. David Thomson:“….make it clear to us over the next year that those venal Republicans appear to have looted the country again.”
The politically correct John McCain was such an awful presidential candidate. He blew the golden opportunity to inform the voters that the Democrats were mostly responsible for
Mar 13, 2009 - 8:00 am 10. Craig:our economic crisis. At this moment, few Americans know that the Clinton administration forced lending institutions to provide mortgages to minorities with poor credit histories. They also have no idea that Republicans tried to put a stop to this nonsense four years ago. The result is that apparently 80% of then blame the GOP for the current mess! Republicans were royally screwed when the Arizona U.S. senator captured the nomination. We were stuck with a sure loser.
It’s the perfect storm. Hide 2 trillion in spending under the guise of a prolonged recession. Expand government to the point you make FDR look like a staunch Libertarian. Move so far left that ACORN looks like an outreach to Ruby Ridge.
Impressive. And he’s only been in office 52+ days.
Mar 13, 2009 - 8:01 am 11. David S:Jennifer,
Obama has the opportunity to revive the economy and implement his agenda. He would be foolish not to – and fellow Democrats are fools if they stand in his way. The American public supports Obama’s agenda. There is plenty of good news for the average citizen in Obama’s proposals. Health care, cap and trade and tax reform are all likely to improve the economy in the long term, while action on banks, mortgages and energy will help get the economy moving again. Most Americans understand that Bush handed Obama the keys to a country with a damaged economy, and that sorting out the mess left by the GOP will take some time.
Undoubtedly Obama understands that there is a window of opportunity that must be taken advantage of before it closes, and is moving rapidly to achieve as much as possible while the political tide is high. Obama can afford to pay less attention to electoral politics because the Democrats have majorities in both houses that are a lot safer than any in recent memory.
If you really think the Democrats are going to line up to pillory Obama, you are living in your own fantasy. The GOP can’t hope to win unless it can offer a reasonable platform to the nation. Good luck with that.
Peace.
DS
Mar 13, 2009 - 8:23 am 12. Promoguy:That anonymous was me, for whatever that’s worth.
I just heard that after the market was up the market is down. I also heard that Obama spoke today on the markets and economy.
And Dave S. Yes, as an average American, can you give me a heads up on when I might get the good news. Just a timetable.
Mar 13, 2009 - 8:49 am 13. Harry Schell:Obama is not working over the economy in an experiment that is new.
This is no “Petri dish”, just a replay of old stuff that has never worked in comparison to vibrant economic freedom, for individuals and markets. It will fail to deliver as it has since the ideas found currency with despots the world over.
About 100 years of failure should dissauade people who can think. Bama cannot, he has never had any experience or mentoring which counters the Marxist reflexes, even if he has the two French economists selling this trash with new words, as mentioned in his books. It is old Marxist theory, with lipstick, offered by a man who has no experience to understand why it will fail.
What it will do is bring more power and authority to the central government over citizens. It is dicey to guess what is on another’s mind, but I think Bama et, al. like that idea quite a lot. Holder tipped the hand when he started talking again about disarming civilians.
Mar 13, 2009 - 9:10 am 14. Steve P.:Jennifer Rubin says: “So why doesn’t the administration listen to these worried Democrats, the Republicans (who are still offering bipartisan solutions), and the “soured” punditocracy which is increasingly frustrated with the president?”
You say that the Republicans are offering bipartisan solutions but you don’t list a single one. Then you throw up a quote without sourcing it. What kind of journalist are you?
David Thomson says: “ The politically correct John McCain was such an awful presidential candidate. He blew the golden opportunity to inform the voters that the Democrats were mostly responsible for our economic crisis. ”
No, he didn’t blow an opportunity, he wisely chose not to try to make such an insane and ridiculous statement. I mean, he was barely hanging on during those debates. Could you imagine the horrendous smackdown he would have received had he tried to say: “My friends, I know it appears, based on the past 8 years of Republican leadership, that my party is repsonsible for the current economic crisis that has developed while we have been in office. The truth is, the other party is responsible. Look my friends, I’m not going to bog you down in details, but this whole thing basically happened because Democrats forced banks to lend to minorities.”
God, I would have loved to see him literally get laughed/booed off the stage. That would have been awesome.
Mar 13, 2009 - 9:16 am 15. surf66:David…
With you?…like Khan…”I grow fatigued.
You are dismissed.
COMPLETELY
Mar 13, 2009 - 9:36 am 16. David S:@12. Promoguy:
Okay.
You can expect health care reform to come to a vote this year. Tax reform will be ongoing, with broad relief now, and some focused increases on upper-quintile earners coming over the next four years. Cap and trade is likely to be put to a vote before 2010 as well.
So you can expect reduced health care costs, a more progressive tax code, and a more sustainable tax and energy policy to be in force before the end of Obama’s first term. The economy is likely to recover during this same time frame, and banking and mortgage reforms will stabilize the housing market once unemployment levels off.
A cleaner and greener planet for your kids is just a bonus.
Peace.
DS
Mar 13, 2009 - 9:42 am 17. Promoguy:Thanks buddy. I’ll be looking forward to all that. Sounds like you’ve got some kind of inside track. My reduced health care costs come with Medicare this year so that’s good.
So really, you think that’s all gonna happen just like you said. I mean if you really mean all of that, I’ll send you my standard goody gumdrops reply.
Mar 13, 2009 - 10:09 am 18. arhooley:A noble experiment.
Mar 13, 2009 - 11:39 am 19. Fairbanks99:David S. Are you really that into Kool-Aid? Here are the words of the messiah himself, from an interview with the San Fransico Chronicle, in January of last year. “Under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket. Whatever the plants were, whatever the industry was, uh, they would have to retrofit their operations. That will cost money. They will pass that cost on to consumers. If somebody wants to build a coal plant, they can — it’s just that it will bankrupt them, because they are going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that’s being emitted.” Peace Dude – ‘Cap and Trade’ will DESTROY the economy. As it is INTENDED to do.
Mar 13, 2009 - 12:13 pm 20. David S:@19. Fairbanks99:
No “Cap and Trade” will transform the economy, as it is intended to.
What all the GOP pundits fail to realize is that carbon credits can be bought by environmentalists, too. Once all the credits have been purchased and put out of service, our economy will no longer rely on massive subsidy of polluting industries.
It’s time to change to sustainable living – hopefully we can.
Peace.
DS
Mar 13, 2009 - 12:30 pm 21. Pat J:Jennifer Rubin is so full of crap. Obamas’s trying to move the country forward despite dealing with two wars and an economic mess he inherited from Bush. And the majority of the American people want these changes.
Mar 13, 2009 - 1:27 pm 22. mr. burns:David S says:
“Cap and Trade” will transform the economy, as it is intended to.
Destruction is a form of transformation . It is the most likely outcome of the Narcissist in Cheif’s proposals were 2012 to arrive without fresh disasters. But there will be new disasters.
Increasing spending and falling tax revenues will force the Fed to start buy treasuries. When that happens the dollar falls and gold soars. Then we begin an inflationary run that will make Jimmy Carter jealous.
Then there is foreign policy . Here is an example of what we are in for:
Mar 13, 2009 - 2:05 pm 23. Harry Schell:1) Move the 5th Stryker brigade (trained in arabic) from Iraq to Afganistan (where they don’t speak arabic)
2) claim to be withdrawing troops from Iraq
3) Move the 4th stryker brigade (which doesn’t have any arabic training) from the US to Iraq.
Pat J.
What is “moving forward” about Marxist wealth-leveling and contralized economic management?
And you think the Reps did this all by themselves? Why then are they the only ones who pointed out systemic risk in Fannie and Freddie? Why did the savant Dodd not call out the impending storm when he became chairman of the Senate Banking Committee? Seems like an ideal chance to count coup…”look what I saved you from!”.
Who was the lawyer suing banks for ACORN because they didn’t lend to people with poor credit? In his very brief career as anything other than a politician?
You need to do your homework.
Mar 13, 2009 - 2:19 pm 24. AThinkingPerson:David S…. “A more progressive tax code.” What? I guess the liberal definition of “progressive” is to take someone who has worked hard and earned a good living, take away 42% of what they’ve earned and give it to someone else who has chosen the easy path in life and would rather save trees than themselves.
Progressive is another word for easy-way-out. Liberal = lazy.
Mar 13, 2009 - 3:59 pm 25. CapitalistForChange:Jennifer, it’s nice to see that you’re keeping up that obsession with Obama. What’s this about 20 consecutive columns on your favorite man?….Let’s sum-up TODAY’S spin: The Republican Party has no real ideas but we may get bailed out by the dems tripping over themselves. We’re looking at a mass revolt against the POTUS, right?…A week ago, you declared the presidency a “failure” since the Dow dropped 20% since the election. Of course, the dow went UP 10% this week, so I guess Obama’s twice as successful NOW, than he was last week??…Oh well, I’ll hold on for the next Rubin-Obama column. Keep it up. Maybe you’ll actually hit onto a “plan”…Goodness knows, the GOP needs one.
Mar 13, 2009 - 4:15 pm 26. freeta goodholm:“It’s time to change to sustainable living – hopefully we can.”
Mar 13, 2009 - 4:15 pm 27. The Historian:I thought this guy is nuts!
Then I remembered it’s spring break the kids are out of school
and the more unattractive and socially inept ones are at home with nothing to do.
SON OF “STIMULUS” DUE OUT THIS SUMMER
It’s coming to your tax bill very soon.
http://greensrealworld.blogspot.com/2009/03/son-of-stimulus-due-out-this-summer.html
Mar 13, 2009 - 4:27 pm 28. USSA serf:David S.
David S. By your comments, now I know what S. stands for (hint it’s the opposite of smart).
1. Socialized health care: very expensive and destined to be rationed with poor care especially for the most vulnerable.
2. Cap and trade: an energy tax for all.
3. Tax reform: punish high income earners leads to fewer jobs, reduced consumer spending, and lower government revenues. This is the downslope of the Laffer curve.
Want to get the economy moving?
1. Allow oil and gas drilling – jobs and tax revenue
2. Keep the Bush tax cuts
3. Cut capital gains and corporate taxes
We’re in for a rough ride. We are so focused on this weak economy that someone is going to find us an attractive target. I think it might be China, Their stimulus plan is to buy oil contracts and build up their military, Soon they will change from buying treasuries to shorting them in the market (TBT)
Mar 13, 2009 - 4:27 pm 29. Mike Blackadder:#21 Pat J: “Obamas’s trying to move the country forward despite dealing with two wars and an economic mess he inherited from Bush.”
So you don’t think that the war in Afghanistan is one that America should have fought, or are you one of those nuts who thinks Bush planned 911? And you are sorry for Obama because he inherited from Bush an Iraq in relative peace that is a dedicated ally in the war on terror instead of an Iraq ruled by a savage dictator whose greatest ambition was to harm the United States?
This economic mess is rooted in the policies of Democrats. And it stands as proof that the government has no competence meddling with the markets.
Besides, I’m sure Obama is very happy to inherent this economic mess because without it he probably wouldn’t have been elected, and certainly wouldn’t be able to fool Americans to accept his every desire on the basis that it is a change and therefore good.
Mar 13, 2009 - 4:28 pm 30. D Foster:I agree, but don’t think the “Republican” Party will wake up and figure out a plan for gaining seats in the 2010 election. This bunch has been out of touch since dennis Hastert became Speaker. A congress of Spenders, and cowards. They never defended the President in the Terrorist Threat, FISA, Guantanimo, taking on the Left Media, letting patrick leahy roll them on Judicial Appointments, etc.
Mar 13, 2009 - 4:38 pm 31. Self-hating Boomer:There are only a few “Conservatives” within the total 535 Elected in Washington. I cannot think of one Conservative Senator, help me, if you can.
Obama and his cronies like Emanual are the result of George W Bush, compassionate Conservative idea, and the Dennis Hastert House spending programs, plus, the big errors the NeoCons made in winning the Iraq War, too long, too expensive for the American voter to support. Allowed the Left to gain the position and, we get Obama.
Jennifer. Occam’s razor. All he’s doing is paying his buddies and supporters off. This ideological free-for-all is just what that ends up looking like when you’re looking for a more complicated explanation.
Even all the appointments make sense when when you look at it this way. Of course he had to throw half of them under the bus when it turned out that they had skeletons in their closets, but at least they can’t say that he didn’t try.
The Chicago way. It’s as simple as that. You scratcha my back…
Mar 13, 2009 - 4:40 pm 32. D Foster:If the Republicans want to get into position for the next election, The Right and Business should consider making a case for Drilling for Oil and Natural Gas, in Alaska, Coast of California, Gulf, Dakota’s, etc, Then they should make a case for additional Nuclear Power Plants, The USA will need this power when it become fact that Solar and Wind will never provide the power required for the American economy.
Mar 13, 2009 - 5:14 pm 33. Delia:You can see the nuclear Plants from the Autobaun in Germany and from the Train in France. No Windmills, And we think France and Germany are not forward thinking.
Finally, we should push for Automobile to run on Natural Gas, this will allow the auto companies to use the same engineering as current and, there is a massive supply of Natural Gas in the USA. There are a large number of Trucks and Bus running on natural gas currently.
As in the past, now that Oil is down to $40 to $50 , we do not hear of any plan about Energy, One thing for sure, the American Economy does not function at $4.5 per Gallon Gas.
There is not Fossil Fuel plan from Obama, except Cap and Trade Tax on Business and Customers of Business, That is all of us in the country. When the new energy crisis hits, we will see the Economy hit skids, and this time we will be in real trouble, Global Trouble.
TAX THE RICH!
Does anyone see the jealousy in that statement?
If you are too lazy or not resourceful enough in your own pathetic life TO GET AHEAD OF YOUR OWN MERIT then make everyone who HAS risen above of their own merit pay.
Ahhhhhhh. Class warfare. Gotta love it.
Mar 13, 2009 - 6:34 pm 34. donttreadonme:David S.
Mar 13, 2009 - 7:14 pm 35. jw:Yikes. Tax relief is coming, eh? You mean the 13/wk? What about the regressive energy tax on ALL Americans that will take two to three times that “relief” away (affecting the poor most of all)? Enjoy the green planet, eh? Because China is going green sometime soon? Psst, David, just between you and I, Jon Stewart is a COMEDIAN! He is there to entertain you. Do not take what he says on faith. Also, get your calculator out…
Got it? Great. Now hold it up to your flourescent eco-friendly lightbulb to turn it on..I will wait the fifteen minutes it takes for it to get bright enough…Ok, punch in 2.75 Trillion (thats the sum total of all govt spending, bailouts et al). Now subtract (horizontal line in lower left side) 1 Trillion(thats the probable amount of inflow assuming the economy contracts at the same rate in 2009 as it did in 08′.) Hit the “=” sign. That, my friend, is economic hell, not recovery. Math never lies. Idiot.
President Obama is not liberal or ultraliberal. He is a Marxist (to be polite about it – see his associations with Communists Reverend Jeremiah Wright and Bill Ayers). The word “liberal” has become used as a euphemism for “socialist,” whereas these socialists (not Social Democrats), are illiberal.
Mar 13, 2009 - 7:31 pm 36. Another Chuck:50% of us don’t care about tax relief because we don’t pay any anyway. We love Obama; hell, let’s make him Santa Claus for life. Tip the scale further by enfranchising all those millions of pre-citizens who snuck across the border. He can depend on the flea-vote forever. With pretty-talk he got the dog-vote. I wonder if old fido will eventually start scratching them off.
Mar 14, 2009 - 1:41 pm 37. venividivici:34. donttreadonme:
I hope David S won’t mind me responding for him:
Duuude, Gaia will take care of us as a reward for our stewardship. Progessive, equality, tax the rich, health care, sustainability. Duuude.
Peace out, bro.
Duuude.
Mar 15, 2009 - 11:22 am 38. Moogie:#34 donttreadonme: Excellent! As the gamers would say, you pwned the n3wb.
Mar 15, 2009 - 4:47 pm 39. David S:@22. mr. burns:
Yes. Witness Iraq. Truly “transformed” by GOP policy. Wars for oil will not end until oil is no longer a strategic weakness of the US economy and military. That time can’t come too soon.
@24. AThinkingPerson:
Someone who is making enough money to be in a 42% tax bracket is not generally working “hard” in the conventional sense. Progressive taxation means you pay more if you have more means to pay. Nobody is going to force you to earn more than $300,000 anyway…
And if you think saving trees is unimportant, you might want to do some research on the important ecological role of forests. Otherwise I will assume you cannot see the forest for all the trees.
@28. USSA serf:
Can’t you attack the argument and stop with the personal smears? It only makes you look even worse when I refute your weak argumentation of the issue at hand.
1. Universal health care is the rule in industrialized societies. It is less costly, more effective, and provides better care for the poor than private for-profit enterprise in the USA. Industry is collapsing under the weight of our antiquated and ineffective private insurance system – universal coverage is the proven answer.
2. Cap and trade is probably the simplest and most effective market-based answer to global warming pollution. The policy initiatives being advanced by the Obama administration would not significantly impact net energy costs for most Americans.
3. Taxes are not punishment – they are the tool used by the government to pay for the services it provides. Higher taxes are historically correlated with greater job growth, increased consumer spending, and reduced government deficits. We are nowhere near the downslope of the Laffer curve by any historical reference.
None of these measures would provide the kind of long-term sustainable economic impetus that is needed. Oil and gas drilling is a waste of our time and resources that can be better devoted to ramping up the new energy economy. Short term jobs in a dead-end industry, and over-investment in an outdated energy technology are not change we can believe in.
Bush’s tax cuts have done, and will do, nothing positive for the national economy. They are a pure giveaway to the wealthiest among us, when it is the poor who are most in need of handouts. It is a perversion of justice to argue for their renewal. Likewise, a cut in capital gains and corporate taxes would be foolhardy. Marginal tax rates need to be high enough to make keeping capital at work a prudent financial choice. Reducing corporate and capital gains tax rates is not a sustainable long-term way to fund the operation of our government, and has no history of improving the economy.
Yes, Reagan and his followers have led us to the precipice and given the nation a hard shove, but we have not yet fallen. With some skill and savvy, we can prevent the worst. China has a much longer view of the world than you understand.
@34. donttreadonme:
Tax relief will come for many in the form of a reduced financial burden from health care. Energy taxes will be offset for those unable to afford the increases. Even China will see the wisdom of reducing dependence on foreign oil. The USA will soon develop the economies of scale and the best technologies to produce the most efficient renewable energy systems possible, and many of the components will undoubtedly be copied by the Chinese for their own domestic needs, and exported world-wide by all. The only folks who really stand to lose are the petro-dictators.
Jon’s a great comedian, and actually a better news source than a lot of the talking heads on TV. I’d say he is both more entertaining and more informative than right-wing radio as well. Colbert does a pretty good job, too.
As you might have heard, it is going to get worse before it gets better. Thank a Republican. We’d have been a lot better off if we had stopped running massive deficits after 1982’s crash, and paid our way through the last 28 years instead of using deficits to bankrupt the government of the People of the USA.
True enough, but people lie using math all the time.
Gotta love that sign-off. I’d have never guessed.
@37. venividivici:
Well, I guess if you don’t mind me mocking you for being a pompous buffoon, you can attempt to respond for me.
Unfortunately you fail on vocabulary, intelligence and nerve. Thanks for displaying your maturity so cleverly.
Peace.
DS
Mar 15, 2009 - 4:49 pm 40. venividivici:Well, I guess if you don’t mind me mocking you for being a pompous buffoon, you can attempt to respond for me.
Unfortunately you fail on vocabulary, intelligence and nerve. Thanks for displaying your maturity so cleverly.
Peace.
DS
Oh, please. I nailed your stupid mantra-spouting perfectly. It’s just that you’re so eminently mockable. I used to be you, before I grew up. When I mock you, I mock my younger, ignorant self as well.
Mar 16, 2009 - 6:45 am 41. AThinkingPerson:David S…. In your estimation someone that makes over $300,000 a year doesn’t work “hard”? In the working-in-a-coal-mine sense no. But in the sense that one must travel extensively sometimes weeks at a time internationally, generate reports, attend and hold conferences, work with board members and shareholders, manage employee benefits, control expenses, generate new ideas for future business growth then yes, one does work hard to become a member of the 42% tax bracket. I know that’s not community organizing or anything but still…it’s hard work.
Not that President Pork has ever had any experience doing any of the above tasks. I guess that’s why he’s so eager to take part of what I earn away. Bless him and his little cold, black heart.
Truth.
Mar 16, 2009 - 11:59 am 42. venividivici:David S…. In your estimation someone that makes over $300,000 a year doesn’t work “hard”?
AThinkingPerson,
David S is probably thinking of how hard Michelle Obama had to work for her $300K, in which case he’s got a point. Overall, though, he’s just an idiot, as someone pointed out earlier. His only excuse is if he’s under 23 years old.
Mar 16, 2009 - 4:10 pm 43. David S:@40. venividivici:
Funny, but I’ve never used the term “Gaia” on this site, or the greeting “Duuude”, nor referred to anyone as my “bro”. So what exactly did you nail? Oh, yes – mocking yourself. Well done. Thanks for saving me the trouble.
@41. AThinkingPerson:
That would be you agreeing with my point. Congratulations.
Just for the record, international travel, creative writing and attending conferences are things that most people do for fun. If you are getting paid $300,000 a year for such activities, pardon me if I don’t think of your work as “hard”. You are clearly being more than adequately rewarded for the effort expended. The difference between a 35% and 42% tax bracket won’t wreck your life.
@42. venividivici:
I’m thinking that most folks taking home $300,000 a year have little concept of what it means to do the hard work that makes their lives so comfortable. Most Americans don’t earn that much in 5 years. Many won’t earn that much in 10 years, despite plenty of hard work. You keep asserting that I’m an idiot – but only because you can’t refute my arguments. If you want to test your intelligence against mine, you will fail. But keep trying – you do a great job demonstrating how poorly the average GOP supporter understands the world.
Peace.
DS
Mar 16, 2009 - 6:05 pm 44. AThinkingPerson:David S….I can now deduce from your last post you are a college dropout living in his parents basement. You have no concept of how the real world operates. You’re making an assumption that a common laborer works harder than a white collar worker. Typical liberal bias. Untrue as most liberal claims are. I make more money than you that’s fairly obvious and I’m positive I work harder than you do.
Get a job David. That’ll cure what ails you (ignorance in case you aren’t “intelligent” enough to figure it out for yourself.)
You do a great job of demonstrating why the liberal Congress headed by a liberal President has absolutely no concept of how to turn around the economy. Just like liberals to throw good money after bad.
Mar 16, 2009 - 7:17 pm 45. venividivici:David S
As far as I can tell your argument is “People who make more than me do things that I don’t understand so we should tax them extra, because my job is the hardest job ever and I’m OK with paying more taxes, so they should be too, gosh darn it!”. In other words, you don’t have the inklings of the beginnings of an argument to refute. It’s just idiotic statement piled upon idiotic statement.
Mar 16, 2009 - 9:16 pm 46. venividivici:Oh, and David S, just so you know. My job is advising senior executives of companies whose revenues is in the billions, sometimes tens of billions of dollars, a year. I personally doubt you could handle even one meeting with these people. You’d start spouting your lame BS and they’d call security. It’d all be so drearily boring, really. Just like you.
Mar 16, 2009 - 9:25 pm 47. David S:@44. AThinkingPerson:
David S….I can now deduce from your last post you are a college dropout living in his parents basement.
Wow. You really are an idiot. Wrong on both counts. What else can you deduce from analyzing your own bias?
I’m familiar with both roles, having worked as a ‘common laborer’ as well as a white collar worker. I am quite familiar with how the real world operates. Despite your protestations, physical labor is more taxing than your jet setting.
You probably do make more money than me if you are opposed to a tax increase on the top 3% of earners. That’s a fringe position held by very few – mostly people who have a personal stake in it. Your own assessment of how hard you work is worth squat. But you can comfort yourself with your bank balance.
It has been twice in less than one hundred years that Republicans have persisted in cutting taxes and inflating markets precipitously, causing the dangerous economic cycles referred to as depressions in the USA. Sound policies were replaced under GOP auspices with loose regulations that made possible a repeat of the mistakes made by the GOP in the 1920’s.
The real theft is the bankrupting of the people’s government for the enrichment of the ownership class. Stealing from the poor and needy to give tax breaks to the rich is not the proper course of action for a moral nation. If Obama does not take the country far enough to the left, his successor will.
Peace.
DS
Mar 16, 2009 - 10:15 pm 48. hawkeye:i’m with #5. i’m going to start a green carbon credit company( i can run it like selling relics for sin, as in the dark ages). i hope i can get plenty of cash and then convert it into ammunition, while there still is time, gotta go i got work to do.
Mar 17, 2009 - 12:10 am 49. venividivici:It has been twice in less than one hundred years that Republicans have persisted in cutting taxes and inflating markets precipitously, causing the dangerous economic cycles referred to as depressions in the USA. Sound policies were replaced under GOP auspices with loose regulations that made possible a repeat of the mistakes made by the GOP in the 1920’s.
There’s this little place (well, a continent, actually) called Europe. There is no GOP there. Yet, miraculously, they find themselves in an even worse position than the US. Under your worldview, that should not be possible, yet there it is, facts once again getting in the way of your ideology.
Despite your protestations, physical labor is more taxing than your jet setting.
So I guess in your moral universe, “caveman” is the most noble job. After all, it was so physically taxing that most of them lived to the ripe old age of about 15. That, of course, was if you survived childbirth, which many didn’t.
Your whole view of the world is so incredibly backward, it could only have been developed under the comforting protection of the very people you claim to find affronting. One only wishes that there was some insignificant corner of the world in which your childish fantasies could be played out once and for all, like Guam or something similar.
That’s a fringe position held by very few – mostly people who have a personal stake in it. Your own assessment of how hard you work is worth squat. But you can comfort yourself with your bank balance.
And your position is not based on a “personal stake”? The money taken out of my wallet will benefit you. How is that not a “personal stake” on your behalf?
I also love how you claim to have insight into how hard everyone works. I’d love to see your objective data and how you determined whose jobs are the hardest and whose are the most overpaid. Underlying all of your commentary is a romanticization of physical labor that typically comes from those who’ve done little of it. I guess in your world, it’s been all downhill since the inventions of things like the wheel and the pulley. After all, those provide leverage and make physical labor a little less “taxing”. In fact, you probably think Archimedes entire life was wasted. I mean, all he did was think stuff up, so he wasn’t really working that hard.
Mar 17, 2009 - 4:02 am 50. Pat J:@ 46. venividivici:
Mar 17, 2009 - 12:20 pm 51. California Dreamer:——————-
So you’re saying you take personal responsibility for the mess you helped get us in?
We have some great fantasies today:
@20 “What all the GOP pundits fail to realize is that carbon credits can be bought by environmentalists, too.” Environmentalists have money? Really? Name one group that is capitalized at 10% of any local electrical utility. And after they make such an “investment” they are going to shelve it? My, my.
@39 “Higher taxes are historically correlated with greater job growth, increased consumer spending, and reduced government deficits. We are nowhere near the downslope of the Laffer curve by any historical reference.” Name even one economy where the first sentence is true. I can name a half dozen where it’s false including the beloved JFK when he tried it. Regarding the second sentence–funny Arthur Laffer thinks we are there. What historical reference point are you using????????
@39 “Jon’s a great comedian, and actually a better news source than a lot of the talking heads on TV. ” If you are getting your news from the TV –meaning any channel — you are seriously unedikated.
Mar 17, 2009 - 11:47 pm