Pajamas Media

31 Comments

1. ST333:

No Worries Mr. Fadhil, it appears a pact was just signed keeping US forces there until 2011 with the option of Iraqi lawmakers able to extend it. The overly ambitious, dangerous, impossible time line for withdraw Obama wanted is no longer a threat and is in the garbage where that idea belongs. He’d be foolish to revisit the pact since no one is against a quicker withdraw if the conditions on the ground allow for it. The objection most people had was not allowing the conditions on the ground to dictate the pace. We are still in combat, there is still an al Qaeda presence (although we bagged a big prize in their #2 today) and the Iraqi’s don’t have all their provinces under their control. Why rush out of there and hope for the best when we can walk out of there knowing the Iraqi’s are in complete control?

Oct 15, 2008 - 9:56 am 2. MartyH:

I disagree with ST333.

Congress will set the timeline and extent for withdrawal, not Obama. Is he going to veto a bill that pulls out all troops in a twelve month timeline when his stated position is withdrawal of combat troops in sixteen months? What’s the difference to him?

I expect Iran and AQ to become more assertive as we draw down. Iran, because the recent drop in oil prices really, really hurts them-they need to get oil back over $100 a barrel, and fomenting trouble in Iraq is the easiest, lowest risk way to do that. An America committed to withdrawal from Iraq certainly isn’t going to stop them. AQ will, of course, trade Afghanistan for Iraq in a heartbeat. Who wouldn’t?

Obama’s biggest decision is on the disposition of forces. Will they stay in a Petrean mode, engaged and proactive? Or will they be Rumsfeldian and disengaged from day to day Iraqi society? If our forces stay Petrean for sixteen months, then our influence ends by June 2010. If our disposition is Rumsfeldian, our influence ends at least a year earlier. Is that enough time for Iraq to prepare itself to defend against Iran and AQ?

Oct 15, 2008 - 10:34 am 3. Foreplay:

How are you, based on are views firmly rooted in your cultural understanding of the world different than the Taliban? Got here by chance and regret it deeply as the knowledge that people as backward as you and the coolies that patronize this site exist at all. I am a West African and from where I come from we would consider morons like the blogger intellectually distitute, a simpliton and arnarchist.

Oct 15, 2008 - 12:36 pm 4. thewiz:

Wow, Foreplay, nice job of throwing around personal attacks without any substantiation.

How is the blogger different from the Taliban? One could write volumes on that one. For one, the blogger is a strongly dedicated believer in democracy. He even ran for office in Iraq when to do so was a near death threat. He believes that the people should rule thier own lives and not be the subjects of a tyrant.

He also believes that women have the same rights as men and are not property that can be traded about. He believes that all people, regardless of race, ethnicity, religion, gender, income, class, politic, and more are entitled to the same rights.

That one should not be prosecuted for different beliefs, and that one has the right of free speech, assembly, petition, votes and more.

Anarchist???? Wow, exposed yourself with that lame shot.

I do not regret that you came by this site but firmly wish that you stick around long enough to learn from it.

Oct 15, 2008 - 1:14 pm 5. thewiz:

As for Obama’s motives. I suspect that he fears a SOFA that extends our stay beyond his 16 month proposal. If the agreement is for too long a time, than he will saddled with the responsibility to win the war. A long stay puts that all on his back.

If instead, no agreement is reached until he takes office, then he can negotiate his own 16 month deal. As he withdraws in such a short time-frame, then he would blame any increase in violence on Bush’s policies. He would even go so far as to say it was an impossible dream destined to fail right from the start. If all of the ME falls into turmoil, he would just blame the Bush-Cheney-Rumsfield cabbal.

Oct 15, 2008 - 1:28 pm 6. Valerie:

Foreplay, welcome. Keep reading, it will be an education for you. But be careful about your english.

Mohammed, this guy has a history of diverting other people’s money to ehhhh… unexpected purposes. For example, he was supposed to oversee an enormous amount of money for the purpose of improving the education of children in Chicago, and that money was spent on radicalizing adults in the vicinity. When it came time to evaluate whether the education of children had been improved, it hadn’t. I’ve known a lot of people who like to call them selves “radical,” where all they really meant was “energetic.” They would be horrified if their own money was spent in this fashion. For me, what’s objectionable about Barack Obama isn’t really his politics, so much as his demonstrated inability to get anything positive done, given enormous resources.

I don’t believe the polls. I look around at my bright baby blue community, and I don’t see many bumper stickers or yard signs, especially not for a presidential election year. I have no idea how this election is going to turn out, but I do believe the voters are surly. I think the local Democrats are feeling buyer’s remorse over their candidate, and surprisingly, some of them know about his interference in Iraq.

Oct 15, 2008 - 2:12 pm 7. Professor Guvinoff:

Valerie,

So much is hush-hush in this election! How many are afraid of being fingered as racist if they dare express rational reservations towards Obama, who has gotten so much mileage out of merely being “present”? It’s a bit like a surfer getting a great ride by having been at the right place at the same time…

If the polls were so precise, why bother having the election?

Many “anti-war” arguments were based on the assumption that we hould not have gotten in Iraq because these “poor folks over there” will never catch the freedom bug. How’s that for racism?

We will find in three weeks who gets to be in charge.

I have to agree with Mohammed, if it’s Obama, the persian Mullahs will celebrate, and Mohammed’s rule of thim will apply for Americans and Iraqis alike!

Oct 15, 2008 - 2:48 pm 8. Ditto:

Well said, Valerie. Well said.

Oct 15, 2008 - 2:55 pm 9. Obama’s Meddling Undermines Future U.S.- Iraq Relationship « Count Us Out:

[...]  http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/obamas-meddling-undermines-future-us-iraq-relationship/2/ [...]

Oct 15, 2008 - 3:30 pm 10. LSD:

There are the two possible motives that you named, but is there a third? I mean, does the Obama campaign have anything to say? Last I heard they made a bizarre statement that started by refuting Taheri’s acusation and finished by confirming it. Have they explained his broaching the subject?

It seems like these details are being lost in the warm glow of Barack’s shining aura. The guy represents a dream deferred and anyone who threatens to point out inconvenient faults is suspected of being a retrograde who wants to deny a black Presidency.

Oct 15, 2008 - 4:02 pm 11. Integ227:

As a republican who intends to support Obama, I, for one, do not believe the politics of elections in the US is dictating the Treaty efforts in Iraq. Of course I’m willing to concede this may only be ignorance on my part. However, the Treaty has not been politicized domestically from as far as I have seen.

I agree that many nations (including those outside of the Middle East and South America) would prefer if Obama is elected. This candidate has communicated a greater desire to open dialogue with nations to meet on some common ground. Isolation of a nation as a punishment only increases disparity and only magnifies the tensions. In today’s environment, we must have open dialogue with nations of people who we agree and disagree with.

For those reading, how many of your family matters were resolved by simply not speaking to select members of your family? How can you demand common ground without speaking honestly and mediating concessions (on behalf of both parties involved)? Conditional relations prove to be counter-productive. Should your neighbor state he will only speak to you if you agree to live his style of life, would you continue to speak to him or conform? In the case of Iran, that is exactly what we demand. Think this issue through… this goes beyond the subject of Israel. We are a nation that evokes influence through force. Of course there are nations out there that will not simply bow to our prowess.

But back to the point-at-hand, Iraq is a mess and will likely continue to be such until we leave. In all my experience with Persians, Arabs, Armenians, Syrians, etc, I’ve come to learn that these nations of people will not be ruled by foreigners nor will they bend to other nations’ demands. They may be ruled by other nations for periods of time, but they seem to always break from their foreign rulers. History will attest to this fact. Afghanistan/Russia is the perfect example. They will fight to the death. Violence will exist at some level until our overbearing presence in Iraq is reduced or withdrawn completely.

Cesar Milan (The Dog Whisperer) has a saying about invoking influence on another: You must match or exceed the intensity. In reference to Iraq, we, as a nation, are not willing to publicly match the intensity of the insurgents in Iraq. We simply do not have the stomach for that level of aggression. I have yet to hear Obama speak those words. I have only heard talk of a responsible, timely withdrawal from an embarrassing war that has cost lives, money and resources (ignoring the fact the war started based on lies and half-truths by our own government). I may be mistaken, but I believed Obama mentioned the 16-month strategy is not feasible at this point.

This is the land of the Iraqi people. It is their nation. At this point, what right have we to intervene beyond stabilization? Our presence on their soil is subject to their leaders’ approval and not the political agenda’s of our leaders or future leaders. We must, must respect Iraqi sovereignty. The was of the United States is not the only way and, by no means, represents the “correct” or “right” path for all people. Ignorance to the other nations and tribes of this world only intensifies our arrogance. Wake up, people.

Oct 15, 2008 - 4:12 pm 12. MataHarley:

Obviously, as Foreplay admitted, he read one post and ASSumed. He’s also as obviously unread on the nature, culture, history and ideology of the Taleban.

Dang fool probably votes, too….

Oct 15, 2008 - 4:25 pm 13. The Wide Awake Cafe » Push Him Back, Push Him Back, Way Back!:

[...] wanted an American victory in Iraq has been apparent for quite a while, in fact, he has meddled in U.S.-Iraq relations for months. This undermines our relations with not only Iraq but with other middle eastern [...]

Oct 15, 2008 - 4:28 pm 14. Terry Gain:

If Iraq wishes not to be abandoned by America’s first socialist president a big signing SFA ceremony in Washington in the last week of October, during which the substantial progress of the past year is hammered home, is in order.

Oct 15, 2008 - 8:11 pm 15. john from cinncinati:

Integ227: far as i know aqi is fighting to the death. today one more did it. as far as not exceeding the intensity of the insurgents, we are surpassing it. its just the ones with nostalgia for another era who seem to believe we shouldn’t win this one either. you sound like we are the only ones who make up stuff, like there was never a holocaust. were did all the yellow cake come from? wait what?

Oct 15, 2008 - 10:13 pm 16. Brian H:

Mohammed;
you shouldn’t use the word “treaty”, as it has specific meaning in this context. This “agreement” has a lower level of authority and commitment, though you are right about the goals.

Oct 15, 2008 - 11:32 pm 17. Marc Malone:

john from cincinnati – Yellow cake? What do Twinkies have to do with anything?

Oct 16, 2008 - 12:24 am 18. Marc Malone:

Integ227 – You’re right. It is ignorance on your part. Your knowledge of diplomacy is as limited as Obama’s.

We are not a family of nations, unless your family has members who literally wish to murder one another. We have dialogues with these idiot nations all the time. We just don’t do it at the highest level. The terms and goals are SET from the top, but we don’t negotiate at the top.

We don’t invite the little kids to sit at the adult table. It gives them prestige amongst all the other little kids It would be a reward for their misbehavior, and would encourage more misbehavior.

We meet, thus, only with pre-conditions. Certain things are non-negotiable, period. If the other side won’t give up on such positions, then there is no point in talking, and other steps must be taken: sanctions; blockades & other military force. You pressure them until they relent. Give ‘em noogies if we have to.

Iraq is not a mess. You haven’t been keeping up with the news. They’re finally getting the last of the benchmarks in place. This would not happen, however, without us there, because they would rapidly fall back into civil war. Only our presence gives the moderates a chance to make the necessary changes that will allow full power-sharing and revenue-sharing.

We are no longer unwelcome there. After exposure to the real evils of Islamofascism, the populace rejoiced when we decided to take and hold ground, and defend the people. The reason we’re now negotiating a SFA, is that the Iraqis recognize this fact and do want us to stay.

It’s now just a matter of determining how much force is necessary, and various contingency plans, and money, and etc…. If we weren’t treating them as a sovereign country, these negotiations, by definition, wouldn’t be happening.

The way of the U.S. IS the best way. I believe in American Exceptionalism. There is a reason we dominate the world, and it’s not because we are such fierce conquerors. Our freedom makes us great, and we don’t jealously hoard that freedom to ourselves.

I repudiate the notion that the ways of other peoples are equally valid. They are not. Before you criticize what a mess we made of Iraq, remember that it was a mess before we ever got there. Their system was inferior. They had a brutal tyrant, just like most of the countries of the world. Don’t even try to compare their ways with ours. There is no comparison.

We are powerful. We don’t have to “respect the sovereignity” of other nations, if we don’t want to. We simply choose to. We export freedom. We rebuild countries, instead of looting or enslaving them. No one else does that. And it’s because we’re exceptional.

Oct 16, 2008 - 1:00 am 19. Suzanne Pomeranz:

Integ227 – you said: “In all my experience with Persians, Arabs, Armenians, Syrians, etc, …”

I’m just curious – what do ARMENIANS have to do with this????? Last I heard…
“ARMENIANS IN IRAQ ARE NOT UNDER THREAT” The situation in Mosul City, Iraq is calmed down and 40 Armenian families living in the city and the Armenian Church are not under threat, said Tigran Balayan, the head of public relations department of the Foreign Ministry of Armenia. “We are in contact with the church and we know that the Government sent military forces to defend local people,” said T. Balayan. SEE: http://www.panorama.am/en/politics/2008/10/15/iraqahayer/

I know lots of Armenians here in Jerusalem, and their long history says that they simply want to get along, no matter the ruler, as long as they are treated fairly.

Oct 16, 2008 - 4:21 am 20. Chris in Toronto:

BRAVO Marc Malone, Bra-VO!

Oct 16, 2008 - 5:13 am 21. Wilma:

Please see this. If Obama is elected this could be our future, IT IS SCARY
http://usawakeup.org/mission.htm

Oct 16, 2008 - 11:18 am 22. centra:

Obama is a say anything man. He is determined to get elected. He has lied so much it is pitiful, what’s more pitiful is, the media continues to allow it.

For example:

He never said those things while he was in church. Maybe he missed those sermons but he was his mentor, his friend, like an uncle Obama said. Then he was caught spewing his hate toward Obama and Obama threw him under the bus, kind of. Rev. Wright, a outspoken political man who Obama was with for 20 years as a friend, like an uncle and Obama didn’t know his politics???

He hides behind his supporters, his advisers. Oh don’t say than ,wink, wink.

How many of his Muslim out reach reps had to quit because they had ties to the enemy our soldiers fight.

He says he thought a terrorist who blew up the pentagon was reformed. A person would have to be totally ignorant to believe this man had reformed. Especially on 9/11/01 when he said he wish he had done more. He said this at the very same time Obama was in the thick with him. Ayes his neighbor, the man that handed over millions to Obama. I wouldn’t hand over $50.00 to someone I didn’t trust. Ayers is a very politically outspoken man. But Obama had no idea he still hated America. OHHH-K. I’m an idiot and I believe that too.

I could go on and on but the truth is this man who we know nothing about, like his college years, Harvard and Columbia can not release his records, may be leading the FREE world.

Do I want such a poor judge of character or such an outright liar as my next President. The lies Senator Obama has told are numerous. His many alliances are troubling to say the very least.

I started working before I got out of high school, I did both and made it during very hard times, the Carter years . I started at the bottom as a kick press operator, learned how to weld parts, learned how to read a blue print, use measuring equipment, setup and run machines and I became an inspector 27 years ago. I learned all of this on my break and lunch, while working a second job as a bartender to pay my rent.

I give to the charities I wish to support Mr. Obama , not the ones your say I must.

An Obama presidency will make me give to people who grew up in the same conditions I did, but who chose not to better themselves. By thirty we owned a home of our own with 1 acre of land. We both settled down to 40 hour a week jobs making a decent wage. We did it all on our own, we made it because we lived in America, the place where having individual responsibility was a must and THE contributing factor to our success.

The only people I should be helping are the elderly, the children and truly mentally and physically despaired.

You Senator Obama who preaches we should spread the wealth, you declare every deduction, contribution and tax credit you can. You could easily pay more taxes by declaring nothing at all. But instead you and your ilk use a lawyer to find every hole in the tax laws you can find, to get out of paying more taxes. Where we the average Joe plumber use a $50.00 guy to pay ¼ of the wealth WE earned to pay for the socialist, nanny state policies your ilk has labored upon us. As my taxes go up my charitable contributions go down. As my bosses taxes go up the number of employees and benefits go down.

Oct 16, 2008 - 4:13 pm 23. Lie, Big Lie, Big Fat Lie, Lies, Lies and More Lies « Obi’s Sister:

[...] what they always say… if you WANT to be President, you should act Presidential. That includes mucking about in foreign affairs. Look Ma, no hands! [Emphasis admin] While Iraqi and American negotiators and decision makers are [...]

Oct 16, 2008 - 6:32 pm 24. Marc Malone:

Chris in Toronto – Thank you. I’m good for a week, now.

Oct 17, 2008 - 3:02 am 25. poodlebunny:

I just became aware that Mr. Obama will not release his BIRTH CERTIFICATE!!!! Could it be possible he is NOT a U.S. Citizen? Who would know since no once can verify???? Let’s get real NOISY on this one, folks. As you well know, if not a US citizen, the Presidency if OFF LIMITS. After all, they questioned Sen. McCain’s birth because he was born while his Dad was stationed in the Panama Canal zone. Why not question Obama’s birth as well? I bet they are really jumping around trying to manufacture all the “evidence” as fast as they can. I can’t imagine a singe reason why anyone running for the highest office in the land would be allowed to get by with not revealing basic information such as a birth certificate and his records from Columbia Univ. Does anyone know any of his classmates? Has anyone seen a yearbook with his picture in it? Has anyone seen a diploma? Or are we being fed a lie here too? And I thought he was so dirt poor. How did he travel all over the world and end up going to Columbia without having worked any job prior to college? A—ND (as he loves to say)how come we don’t get equal coverage of the white side of his family? Just questions rolling around in my head. Maybe someone can answer them.

Oct 17, 2008 - 7:37 am 26. AdrianS:

The Video that could cost Obama the election:

http://www.nextgenerationcorp.com/NextGenBlog/?p=68

Poll finds American reject redistribution of wealth as suggested by Barack Hussein Obama.

PRINCETON, NJ — When given a choice about how government should address the numerous economic difficulties facing today’s consumer, Americans overwhelmingly — by 84% to 13% — prefer that the government focus on improving overall economic conditions and the jobs situation in the United States as opposed to taking steps to distribute wealth more evenly among Americans.

Read: http://www.gallup.com/poll/108445/Americans-Oppose-Income-Redistribution-Fix-Economy.aspx

Americans Oppose Income Redistribution to Fix Economy

[Note: Elect John McCain for a free America and economic growth.]

Oct 17, 2008 - 10:48 am 27. AbuBaerSmith:

This should be treated like what is, TREASON. Why has no one initiated an investigation and filed charges. It was bad enough that they voted to strengthen AlQueda’s “Islamic State” in Iraq by trying to defund the war but now this is absolute proof they are Political Agents acting on behalf of AlQueda whether by design or as dupes the fruits of their labor would be the same.

Oct 17, 2008 - 1:25 pm 28. Tom W.:

As a republican who intends to support Obama, I, for one, do not believe the politics of elections in the US is dictating the Treaty efforts in Iraq…

In reference to Iraq, we, as a nation, are not willing to publicly match the intensity of the insurgents in Iraq. We simply do not have the stomach for that level of aggression. I have yet to hear Obama speak those words. I have only heard talk of a responsible, timely withdrawal from an embarrassing war that has cost lives, money and resources (ignoring the fact the war started based on lies and half-truths by our own government).

How many of you believe that a Republican wrote this?

“As a concerned conservative just like you, I’m voting for the lying, incompetent, corrupt socialist who sics the government on people who dare criticize him.”

As for the stupidity of saying we don’t have the stomach for aggression, the main reason we won in Iraq is because General Petraeus loosened up the rules of engagement and authorized special operations forces from all over the world to kill as many terrorists as possible.

At least three Iranian “diplomatic” convoys were ambushed and all their occupants killed. That caused the Iranians to withdraw most of their Qods Force terrorists.

The British SAS carried out operations inside Iran, killing the EFP runners and manufacturers.

The SAS and the Delta Force killed or captured 3500 terrorists in Baghdad alone. The Delta Force took 20 percent casualties in the process, an astronomical number.

If you have the stomach for it, watch this video. It shows what happened after General Petraeus eased the rules of engagement.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f55_1218548389

Those are unarmed terrorists being blown into chunks by high-explosive cannon shells. General Petraeus allowed our troops to kill people who dropped their weapons and tried to run away.

Petraeus and our troops realize that some people just have to be killed. We can’t show them mercy. Obama doesn’t believe that. He thinks he’s so dang smooth and persuasive, he can talk terrorists into behaving like human beings.

And yet…

Obama admits that he has absolutely no ability to persuade American Republicans to do anything.

http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=5922487

“I don’t think me calling House Republican members would have been that helpful, I tend not to be that persuasive on that side of the aisle.”

So he can’t even persuade Republicans to pass a bill, but he claims he can talk Iran into becoming peaceful.

Anyone who supports Obama is–I’m sorry–an imbecile. He lays all his weaknesses and incompetence right out on the table. He is a complete fraud, a nothing, an actor blowing hot air.

That’s why he’ll lose.

Oct 17, 2008 - 8:33 pm 29. davod:

Obama’s interference in Iraq may be bad, but his interferrence in Kenya was even worse.

Oct 18, 2008 - 4:34 am 30. NS:

Tom W,
Thank you for posting that kick ass video from LiveLeak. That and the Kidrock sound track was intense.

Oct 18, 2008 - 5:11 am 31. KPM1642:

Iran was our ally in the 50s,60s and 70s. Power shifted in the Middle East Iraq became our ally against Iran. Power shifted again and Iraq became our enemy.

Now Iraq is our friend again and Iran is our enemy?

Does not seem to make sense thinking long term relationships are going to last in the ever shifting sands of the Middle East. Our time, money and effort would be better spent on the US and the close allies we already have. Not some crap shoot in the Middle East where all previous money seems to have been wasted.

And I am not certain one trip to Iraq could be considered interferring when taken in context of the whole Middle East Issue. We interferred with 175,000 troops. Can’t get much more interferring.

If they want to kill each other let em. But lets not keep American targets in close range.

Let em go back to hating each other not us. They take our money but hate us. A great relationship. Hmm!

Oct 26, 2008 - 11:02 am

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