Pajamas Media

167 Comments

1. Jack Okie:

More moral equivalence? Is Sarah Palin in a “race to the absolute bottom of the cesspool”? How about citing John McCain’s offenses? I chalking your post up as more jerking off from somebody who had to meet a column deadline.

Sep 18, 2008 - 8:41 am 2. trangbang68:

Definition: Hypocrisy-Every Liberal whining bed wetting little eunuch who has spent the last several years screeching about the Patriot Act and its violation of their privacy to download kiddie porn at the library.
As for the fool that did this may he have a midnight rendezvous with Bubba in a holding cell. Hack this clownboy.

Sep 18, 2008 - 8:59 am 3. Self-hating boomer:

I strongly suspect that this was a Yahoo inside job. Some SF bay area moonbat at Yahoo with administrator privileges would have easily had access to all of this, which would have otherwise been a very difficult hack.

If laws were broken, the subpoenas need to be handed out at Yahoo, starting at the top.

Sep 18, 2008 - 9:03 am 4. schnargley:

I believe that the hacker was a true patriot who put his/her country first above personal risk and incrimination. After all, we hack into personal email accounts of extremist-Islamics, although mostly unfairly due to Islamophobia. Even someone as brilliant and highly respected as journalist Juan Coles likened Palin to an extremist “fundamental Islamic.” Others have come up with her adherence to a highly dangerous cult of fanatical religious wackos called “Christians.” It was recorded that her pastor even once said, “God bless America,” in a sermon, displaying a virulent form of extremist neo-fascist nationalistic devotion to country that makes the Nazis look like bong-happy multi-cultural John Lennon dreamers. This bedeviling and duplicious mother of five and so-called reformer Palin has single-handedly endangered the possibility of a peaceful world of harmony, social/economic justice, and general wonderfullness under the leadership of Barack Hussien Obama and the Democratic Party.

It is indeed encouraging to many of us to see the normally slack-jawed, unbathed, wearing-the-same-underwear-for-a-month hackers put down their bongs and turn down their screamo music for amoment to fight for truth and their country.

Sep 18, 2008 - 9:04 am 5. Mary Madigan:

The fact that most of the press believes that publishing Palin’s hacked email is an example of ’smart and fearless journalism’ is just one of many illustrations of how the press has turned into a fairly powerful thugocracy.

The media honestly believes that they’re above the law. They aren’t guardians of our freedom, they’re not the voice of the people. They haven’t been for years.

If you woke up one morning to find 10 newsvans parked in front of your house and a swarm of reporters banging on your front door, would you feel:

1) apprehension and dread, as if you were about to be attacked by a many-tentacled monster

2) overjoyed that the unbiased guardians of freedom were blessing you with their attention

Most people would probably choose 1). According to a Gallup poll, most people think the media less trustworthy than used car salesman. I wonder what the results would have been if hackers and other criminals were included on the list of professions.

Sep 18, 2008 - 9:07 am 6. Javelin:

Cry me a river. This is so petty, good to see the usual compassionate, Christians here with all sorts of kind ideas on how to reform the hacker.

Sep 18, 2008 - 9:21 am 7. Self-hating boomer:

Liberal thinking:

The government listing in on terrorists talking on international telephone connections to other terrorists in Afganistan: unacceptable.

Moonbats hacking email accounts: righteous.

At some point, all you can say is WTF???

Sep 18, 2008 - 9:23 am 8. cwm:

Well this definitely moves the bar downward, but not surprising these people do not operate with their brain but with an emotional hatred that I have never seen. They use this hatred and distort it in to some kind of perverted rationalization that their partisan desires trumps everyones constitutional rights and the need for laws. If they could think past their noses they would know that any computer savvy ninth grader has the resources to hack into email. So when we start seeing pictures and school schedules of Obama’s young children what will they say then. We know that these people do not want us to know the truth because they the threat of lawsuits and thugs to shut down legitimate discussion about the Obama history. The republican party needs to live up to the reputation the media and Obama has given us. The republicans should take off the gloves and look into these liberals personal lives with the passion of a Larry Flynt. These people litterally hate us for our party label. You do not win a war by being nice to your enemies, you win a war by knowing your enemies and putting a quick end to their existance.

Sep 18, 2008 - 9:27 am 9. Nine-of-Diamonds:

Maybe Sarah Palin should become an Islamic extremist and plot to blow up major landmarks. That would probably be the best way to get the Left to care about her online privacy.

Sep 18, 2008 - 9:30 am 10. Spinoneone:

Note that ABC News has refused a Secret Service request to turn over ABC’s files on the matter. Oh, well, yes, ABC does openly support Obama. The hacker should be hunted down. Yahoo must be subpoenaed for further information. For those of you on the left who believe this is a good thing, and even the hacker says there was “nothing there,” just remember, the reaper can come for you, too.

Sep 18, 2008 - 9:35 am 11. Bookem Dano:

I agree that hacking into Palin’s account is a low, sleazy thing to do. It’s also a CRIME. But considering that McCain is now push-polling Jewish voters in Michigan and Florida with smears linking Obama to pro-Palestinian causes, considering that the Republican Party is trying to disenfranchise voters in Michigan who have had their homes foreclosed, considering that Palin continues to lie about the Bridge to Nowhere even AFTER ADMITTING that it was a lie, the McCain camp are hardly the right people to complain about moral turpitude. Consider, also, that the push-polling, disenfranchisement and Palin’s lies are coming straight from the campaign, while the hacking of Palin’s email account has no link to the Obama campaign (that we know of). Put it together, and what’s clear is that the Republicans’ moral outrage over this is a bunch of BS, and everybody knows it.

Sep 18, 2008 - 9:41 am 12. tomw:

Had she been using her official gov’t account, this wouldn’t have happened. It got hacked because it was a yahoo account. I know that doesn’t make it right, but OHHHHH. Did you see them? She’s discussing how to avoid oversight. Interesting. Just what our government needs more of, an administration that wants to hide its activities. What could there possibly be to hide? She’s definitely more of the same.

Sep 18, 2008 - 9:43 am 13. Nine-of-Diamonds:

“Just what our government needs more of, an administration that wants to hide its activities.”

That’s why we need to elect Baracky “eight questions is enough” Obama. He and his followers would NEVER deflect legit questions by crying “Smear Machine” and “Racism” every five seconds – would they?

Sep 18, 2008 - 9:56 am 14. Mary Madigan:

This is so petty, good to see the usual compassionate, Christians here with all sorts of kind ideas on how to reform the hacker

Not being a Christian, I wouldn’t know, but the hacker is the least interesting part of this story. Hacking into someone’s email is one thing. Publishing the hacked data, and publishing other private information on a worldwide database, as Gawker did, is another.

Crowing about it and blaming the victim is yet another. The press has gone too far, as they’ve done many times. We all have to ask ourselves ‘who is next’?

Sep 18, 2008 - 9:59 am 15. R Beckey:

schrgley Islamic Extremist want to kill us for not believing in what they do it’s to bad you don’t understand the difference. Spend less time trying to figure out how you ar going to word your next sentence so that it makes bull@#%@ sound like something else. And spend more time figuring out what freedom really means in our country. Better yet move to Iran, China, they will love you there. Childish hacking into a persons private e-mail is different than protecting people

Sep 18, 2008 - 9:59 am 16. Way Out East:

Could you imagine the outrage if Chris Matthews (et al) e-mail was hacked?

Sep 18, 2008 - 10:01 am 17. jane:

tomw – Do you subscribe to the opinion that if a woman is raped she was “asking for it” because she was dressed provacatively or she went out with the guy? Just curious

Sep 18, 2008 - 10:01 am 18. SirSefirot:

These /b/tards ended doing more good than harm for the Palin campaign…

Sep 18, 2008 - 10:02 am 19. William of Orange:

schnargley writes:

“I believe that the hacker was a true patriot who put his/her country first above personal risk and incrimination.”

You really are a paleolithic mouth-breather, aren’t you. Do you actually believe thee sh*t you write or are you just taking hits off of toilet seat covers? Imagine how you would like some cretins crow-barring your postbox and tearing open your letters and bills and the plain-brow-wrapper kiddie porn pics you get in the mail?

You really ought to get stuffed, a**hole.

Sep 18, 2008 - 10:04 am 20. BackwardsBoy:

The Vapid One’s followers are wet with glee. They’ll completely overlook the criminality of the act of hacking Sarah’s Yahoo account and focus on anything they can find that even looks like it could be suspicious.
That a fine woman with family values and a conservative record can be the victim of smear politics for no good reason makes me ill. And this also makes sure that I’ll vote for her and McCain.
These tactics have backfired and shown the leftists to be the emotionally stunted, brainwashed minions that they are. Liberalism is truly a mental disease.

Sep 18, 2008 - 10:06 am 21. Macgawd:

Attention on deck, you literal-minded fools:

Schnargley is a satirist, and a funny one at that.

That is all.

Sep 18, 2008 - 10:13 am 22. tomw:

Jane: “o you subscribe to the opinion that if a woman is raped she was “asking for it” because she was dressed provacatively or she went out with the guy? Just curious”

Why, what are you wearing?

Sep 18, 2008 - 10:14 am 23. wow:

The stupid meter is off the charts on this thread. Remember when warrantless spying was great because you should never fear people looking into your business if you’re doing nothing wrong? Privacy was never an unalienable right during that conversation.

What respectable liberal or journalist thought this was a good idea? I don’t know of a single one. Show me a clip of someone praising this hacker (who’s not an equally wacko blogger/commentator like you, on the left). Please when you deal in hyperbole you expose yourself as a childish corporate christian.

Sep 18, 2008 - 10:16 am 24. wow:

Hey BackwardsBoy…

There are kooks on both sides. Using a broad brush is just silly. Most people view the invasion as both scary and wrong, coming from someone in a blue state. Liberalism is a mental disease? That’s laughable. You should probably watch this, a great presentation that takes a hard look at a person’s moral underpinnings:

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind.html

But Rush Limbaugh, the drug addict and serial divorcee is right on the money. You expose yourself as a cheerleader.

Sep 18, 2008 - 10:22 am 25. mishu:

If this is the type of person that the Obama campaign attracts, then I want no part of Obama.

Sep 18, 2008 - 10:24 am 26. TeamPlayer:

You demonize hackers but use the fruits of their labor even as you surf this echo chamber. Palin the reformer who spent $50,000 redecorating her office. You guys will believe anything if it’s dressed like an elephant.

Sep 18, 2008 - 10:25 am 27. TeamPlayer:

Where was the moral outrage when the Bushies wanted warrant less wire-taps, the proclamations that privacy was a right for everyone? How do you hypocrites keep your heads from exploding? Ron Paul has been so right it’s scary. Imagine if you had a true intellectual with consistent conservative positions as your candidate…just imagine.

Sep 18, 2008 - 10:28 am 28. TeamPlayer:

Mishu…So Timothy McVeigh, registered Republican? How’s that association working out for you. Your argument is beyond weak.

Sep 18, 2008 - 10:29 am 29. TeamPlayer:

The point is that there are wack-jobs at both extremes. I can appreciate many of the core conservative value and find it unnecessary to attack conservatives or republicans en masse.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/03/29/profile.mcveigh/

Sep 18, 2008 - 10:32 am 30. Marcia Wood:

Yesterday proved to be a day of confusion – the media was working overtime on bringing us the latest and greatest Wall Street gossip, but like fannies everyone has an opinion and we the people are left out to sea trying to shuffle thru the fluff and real!

So, the day for me was spent studying Senator Obama’s voting history and here’s what I found.
What Do We Know

As Senator Obama stated in his newsletter July 2008, the American people have a right to know… Whoa, take a minute to read his entire newsletter from cover to cover. Then in order to put this newsletter into perspective, take a peek at Senator Obama’s actual track record in the Senate. Go to the United States Senate: Senators Home

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the Senator chose to sit on the fence for months at a time without casting a vote. One thing for sure you can keep your track record pretty clean if you don’t participate, or can you?

When Senator Obama discusses his concern for the “middle class” – it becomes a little confusing, because those free “fuzzies” he’s throwing to us in his campaign speeches aren’t quite adding up.

He refers to the “middle class” like we are some little waifs on the street corner waiting for a handout. Here’s a news flash to Republicans and Democrats, “Americans aren’t asking for a free ride; but we don’t want to be the good guys to rescue the crooks any longer.”

His speeches in Colorado Tuesday talked about 50 billion dollars would be used to jump start the economy and earlier the same day it was announced that the US Government was bailing out AIG to the tune of 85 billion dollars. Just exactly where does Mr.Obama think that 50 billion dollars for a jump start is hiding?

It’s obvious that “words” aren’t only cheap; sometimes they’re down right nonsensical. Americans are struggling and trying to make sense out of Senator Obama’s many promises and his feeble explanation about leadership. If he couldn’t be a stand up leader in the Senate and his greatest concern is Sarah Palin, why does he think he’s got the credentials to lead our Nation?

Everyone is listening to his campaign speeches, because that’s what Americans do the last 6 weeks before the Presidential Election. We’re spending all of our time sifting through the political maize trying to determine who he really is and what he might stand for…

According to Webster, “A leader is a person that leads, directs, commands and is a guiding hand.” So my question is this, “when, where and how did Senator Obama master the art of leadership?”

His track record in the Senate indicates more no shows, but he wasn’t worried because his Democratic friends were managing the Senate. The few times he did vote certainly didn’t indicate any concern, respect and love for the American people.

Please don’t take my word for anything, go to the webpage, “US Senate: Senators Home” and find out the truth for yourself. Senator Obama’s newsletter would make one think he made “senator of the year” in 2007 & 2008, but on close examination you probably will wonder why Illinois even kept him around.

Get an accurate picture of who this man really is and what he does or doesn’t stand for in the scheme of things. As I said, he was missing in action a large part of the time, but below are just a few of the things that he voted against in his short interim as Senator.

Before we go any further, read about the bill on 3/14/08 that was placed before the Senate to codify the unborn child regulation. For more on this go to Glenn Beck on CNN and remember that Senator Obama voted a big “Nay” on this bill.

What you’ll read is very graphic and quite sad to think that babies are just left to die with only their little blanket for comfort. There’s probably going to be an influx of people who finally have the nerve to step forward and share this story! Let’s dissect his performance during his short interim as Senator, I believe you’ll find a big “nay” on codifying the unborn child regulation..

Senator Obama didn’t considered improving access to affordable health care for all as important and he didn’t see any reason to require appropriate qualifications for interim US attorneys. Guess, its best not to step on any toes if you’re trying to win the Presidential Election – just don’t do anything to ruffle feathers Mr. Obama.

He wasn’t much interested in increasing the Federal minimum wage either and than why should he care if our college graduates are unable to find jobs – any little perk would have been most appreciated by them and the young middle class community.

Without boring you, study this bill that was to strengthen the Federal Government’s ability to detain dangerous criminal aliens, including murderers, rapists, and child molesters, until they can be removed from the United States, to prohibit the rewarding of suicide bombs and allow adequate punishments for terrorists murders, kidnappings, and sexual assaults, and for other purposes – you got it, once again he voted a big “Nay” on this bill!

He wasn’t much interested in helping small businesses, ranches and farms by providing them with a tax exemption nor did he consider protecting the families’ budget from runaway government spending or providing a point of order against legislation the increases income taxes on taxpayers, which includes the entrepreneurs, college crowd and middle class – income families.

As you continue doing your homework, you’ll discover that Senator Obama even voted against paying down the government debt and reducing the government waste on antiquated mandated programs that aren’t working.

Senior citizens, middle class and concerned citizens go to 3/13/08 and see what this Senator is all about – the bill that he voted against will astound you! On the Amendment S.Amdt. 4170 to S.Con.Res. 70 (No short title on file) Just what year did Senator Obama plan on becoming a leader who really cares about the people?

What the Democrats have in their camp is an eloquent speaker, who has a great way with words and no doubt has a great speech writer in his hip pocket and a teleprompter under his coat tails. The difficult times the past couple of years was definitely the time that Senator Obama had the opportunity to support real “change.”

Instead of taking action and leading, he opted to continue straddling the fence hoping from all outward appearance that Americans would perceive him as a Senator with a strong track record.

Our country really doesn’t need a bird watcher, who can’t make definitive decisions or stand hard on issues and legislation that is critical to the recovery of our faltering United States of America. We need “leaders not followers.”

Our Nation has two leaders, Senator John Mc Cain & Governor Sarah Palin who will carefully guide our country thru the hard times – check the “mavericks” out. They love their country, their fellow citizens and most of all they want to place our Nation back on a strong foundation for our children and our children’s children.

Americans, you’re intelligent hard working citizens with good minds and the ability to learn the truth. Voting is not only our rights as an adult citizen of the United States of American; it is a responsibility!

As Always, Annie

Sep 18, 2008 - 10:34 am 31. heather:

the nasty little dweeb is, according to V the K at gaypatriot:
#

Curiouser and curiouser: the identity of person known as Rubico who takes credit for the hack has been traced to the son of a Democrat state senator from Tennessee.”
and following the link to Michelle Malkin:

On September 18th, 2008 at 5:55 am, powerpro said:

Looks like we now have a name to go with the email address.

AKGoldRush over at LittleGreenFootballs.com unearthed who rubico is in this thread (it’s not the topic of the thread so just do a search for the name to find the posts in question…but he outs rubico10 in post #873).

rubico10

David Kernell
rubico10@yahoo.com
20
Memphis, TN
amateur chess player
son of democratic state 93rd district senator Mike Kernell (Tennessee)

The password he chose for Palin’s email was popcorn. Get it? Popcorn? Kernell? How very clever of him.

And apparently, someone’s even updated his Wiki page with this info! (It’s been deleted but is still viewable in the history tab).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Rubico

Sep 18, 2008 - 10:37 am 32. tomw:

Marcia Wood:
Next time just post the link, eh?
http://www.redstate.com/diaries/annie1/2008/sep/17/what-do-we-know/

Sep 18, 2008 - 10:45 am 33. Marmoset:

Good article overall, but stop dissing my family!

Sep 18, 2008 - 10:46 am 34. michele:

If this is the type of person that the Obama campaign attracts, then I want no part of Obama.

You are mistaking the /b/ kids for people who actually care about the election. Most of them are teenagers whose only goal is to get notoriety for their group. They don’t care about the players, only the game. A majority of probably aren’t even old enough to vote. This hacking had very little to do with supporting Obama and a lot to do with some basement dwelling kids with too much free time and not enough maturity to figure out something constructive to do with that time.

Go ahead and chastise the people who jumped on the hacking as a way to bring down Palin, but don’t give the 4chan people any credit for caring which candidate wins.

Sep 18, 2008 - 10:50 am 35. AlexinCT:

What a god damn shameful thing to say. The left has no morals. It is patriotic to let government steal your hard earned money so greedy collectivist politicians can ensure their political endurance? This is telling. Supporting your country or troops at war is not patriotic. Dissent – especially the kind where you also undermine the mission and help cause casualties – is patriotic. High taxation of the productive is patriotic. These people are scum. Period!

Since when did patriotism have to do with undermining the basic principles that make our nation great and replacing it all with a failed collectivist vision that enslaves us all to the whim of government? Screw you Biden. You are an unpatriotic scumbag.

This is more proof that what is driving the left is not the desire for any kind of “Hope” or “Change” as their messiah is telling us, but plain and simple blinding hatred. They have chosen the most radical candidate in order to rub it in the faces of the right. They are resorting to any and all tactics against their opponents. The end justifies the means. Nothing is to low or dirty if it but helps them bag the price. Isn’t this the attitude they accuse rich people of having when they steal wealth from the poor (and I still wonder how you can steal something from someone that does not have any of it to begin with anyway).

What bears mentioning is that if the left could muster but a fraction of this hatred/anger towards America’s real enemies we would have likely already been done in Iraq and well on our way to win the GWoT by now. Keep that in mind. The left wants us to treat our enemies with kid gloves and is constantly trying to have us fail, but it resorts to tactics that would make SS Troops proud in its campaign against conservatives. These people should never be given power I tell you.

Sep 18, 2008 - 10:51 am 36. cwm:

The Obama trolls are out in full force today defending the undefendable because their brownshirt leader has told them to get into the unbelievers faces. These cowards become cowboys when they behind their keyboards and wildly punch away remarks that they know would not hold water even on MSNBC. What they do not know is how easy it is to identify them. They will be very surprised when that bulldog shows up at their door and knocks the lipstick off of their faces. Please keep pushing the bar downward, you see respect and good taste are expected in republicans, however they will soon began to emulate their conterparts and then because of their intellectual superiorit you will see all of Hades break loose.

Sep 18, 2008 - 10:58 am 37. BackwardsBoy:

Wow,
Somebody’s got to wave the pom-poms.

And yes, if you’re a liberal as practiced in our country today, there is something truly missing in your thought process.

It’s called intelligence.

Sep 18, 2008 - 11:01 am 38. TeamPlayer:

AlexinCt…best post ever. “If the left could must but a fraction…we would have likely already been done in Iraq”. Sunni Shia violence would have been quashed if everyone in the U.S. fell in line. That is rich, just brilliant logic. SS Troops are an interesting comparison. How do you characterize purveyors of torture or what would you have said of a dissenting German citizen in the 1940s? The left is not a monolith out to screw the country as you suggest. Just as I don’t believe the right is a bunch of warmongering, racist, money-grubbing, corporate socialist, personal liberty stealing pedophiles. I have examples of all of these from your party, but stereotypes are not very useful are they?

Sep 18, 2008 - 11:02 am 39. tomw:

AlexinCT, what are talking about? What was a shameful thing to say? I feel like you’re responding to some other article which was posted, because nothing you say has anything to do with Sarah Palins email hack.

Resorting to any and all tactics? = McCain and Palin.
“He want to teach kindergartners about sex before teaching them to read”

Sep 18, 2008 - 11:05 am 40. TeamPlayer:

cwm. Respect and good taste? Laughable. I could mention example after example of poor taste from the right. Both sides have their despicable players. No one is defending the email break in. I’m sure I could troll websites that lauded the killing of Wellstone if I looked hard enough. Does that make all republicans monsters? Cowboys? My goodness, I hope the persecution complex you are working on helps you get by.

Sep 18, 2008 - 11:05 am 41. mason:

After reading the comments justifying this behavior I weep for my country. How did we get to this pass and how do we fix it?

Sep 18, 2008 - 11:07 am 42. vashnugel:

From The Register: Memo to US Secret Service: Net proxy may pinpoint Palin email hackers

“Memo to law enforcement investigators tracking down who broke into Sarah Palin’s Yahoo email account: Gabriel Ramuglia might be a good place to start.

The 25-year-old webmaster and entrepreneur is the operator of Ctunnel.com, the browsing proxy service used by the group that hacked into the vice presidential candidate’s personal email account and exposed its contents to the world. While he has yet to examine his logs, he says there’s a good chance they will lead to those responsible, thanks to some carelessness on their part.

“Usually, this sort of thing would be hard to track down because it’s Yahoo email, and a lot of people use my service for that,” he told El Reg in a phone interview. “Since they were dumb enough to post a full screenshot that showed most of the [Ctunnel.com] URL, I should be able to find that in my log.”

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/18/palin_email_investigation/

Sep 18, 2008 - 11:13 am 43. THorfin:

Well I hope the kid gets a good lawyer and the rest have good firewalls. This is pretty low but there again it seems to go along with Barry’s campaign style.

Sep 18, 2008 - 11:17 am 44. Thomas Biernesser:

“Terrorism is attacking non-military targets in order to achieve a military, political, or economic goal”. This hacker & all of his/her accomplices are most certainly terrorists, by their own words-they admit deliberately attacking Mrs. Palin in order to find “evidence” to shoot down the Republican campaign.

As for why they do this kind of thing in the first place, monsters, criminals, & generally evil people (i.e., this hacker & some of the people helping/defending him/her) do not see themselves as evil. They don’t hack into e-mail accounts or constantly spout BS propaganda & think, “Man, I am so evil right now”. Instead, they convince themselves that they are doing the right thing, that some sacrifices must be made for the greater good. If they examined themselves closely enough (almost all won’t), they would realize just how screwed up they are: most would go insane with shame & terror before they reformed-most of the rest would deliberately become more evil, because that’s “less work” than reforming.

Sep 18, 2008 - 11:18 am 45. mvargus:

They have already identified the hacker. Its some 20 year old son of a member of the Tennessee State Legislature who happens to be…

wait for it…

a Democrat.

what a surprise there.

Sep 18, 2008 - 11:19 am 46. JPL17:

“But what it really shows is that there are plenty of emotionally disturbed, psychologically stunted creeps out there with the conscience of an alley cat and the morals of a marmoset.”

Hey — I think you owe alley cats and marmosets and apology!

Sep 18, 2008 - 11:21 am 47. proud elitist:

Hope they forwarded all governing related emails to her official AK account so it could then be on the record.

Other than that, we cannot presume whether said hackers are affiliated with any party or are bored 16-year olds who figured out her password was like “pitbull” or “momof5″ or “rapture” or “shouldabeenfirst”.

Other than that, utterly despicable. Bad, hackers, bad! Now, please focus your attention on the RNC and White House gazillion lost emails.

Sep 18, 2008 - 11:30 am 48. Brickle:

The “New Politics” of the left are that crimes against your political opponent are legitimate campaign tactics.

That’s a move that, when employed in other countries, has often resulted in civil war.

How do we get past it? With rifles. The Obama campaign has already started spreading the idea that if he’s not elected it’s the result of entrenched racisim. Combine that with the idea your political opponants are evil, that any action to combat them is justified, finanical markets in chayos, vulnerable infrastructure, the ability to organize on the net – a few months from now we may have an awful lot of dead people.

Sep 18, 2008 - 11:34 am 49. proud elitist:

Oh, and we got to this pass b/c your Refugs in the White House and Congress gave the big one-finger salute to civil liberties and Internet watchdogs and protection.

You voted for this crap. You own it.

Sep 18, 2008 - 11:35 am 50. cwm:

Teamplayer
” I could mention example after example of poor taste on the right” Well please do if you can find one that sinks to this low of a level. The only thing I can find from the right regarding Wellstone has to do with the poor taste exercised on the left by turning a funeral into a political rally and the Bush bashing that went on. Besides this was over two years ago what we are discussing happened yesterday. Why don’t you just look for something like the response from the left when Tony Snow died, or when Jesse Helms Died or how about when Novak found out he had a brain tumor these are more contemporary instances but do not support your arguement. Maybe I do not go to the correct web sites but I saw no one from the right wishing Ted Kennedy a quick and painful death like was done by the left to Novak and Snow.

Sep 18, 2008 - 11:36 am 51. AlexinCT:

Teamplayer , if the left had not actively undermined the war in Iraq – and you did not just dissent; you did everything you could to make it fail – and had shown a unified front, the enemy in Iraq would have given up 3 years ago. They kept fighting precisely because they hoped the left would do what they did in Vietnam: remove the troops and the support for the people they where fighting so they could take over. The surge despite all the yammering from the treasonous left was the nail that sealed the coffin and finally convinced the enemy in Iraq they would never win. Spin this fact however you want, but the enemy in Iraq was motivated to keep fighting by the left.

The fact remains that the left is motivated by hatred and nothing else. And I saw a lot of it in your post. The proof is in the rest of your post. Corporate socialism is a thing of the left. So are racism and money grubbing. Who wants to tax us more? The hatred is obvious. I stand by what I say, and the anger I see from leftist twits is proof I hit a sore spot.

Tomw, I was talking about Biden’s comment that stealing from the productive so the collectivist government could buy votes was an act of patriotism. It is more of the same dirty tactics based on hate. BTW, When you have republicans hacking private e-mails, helping promote election fraud, asking their followers to start fights with the opposition, or the MSM helping them to engage in a smear campaigns, come back to me and we will discuss. For now all I see is the left engaging in dirty tactics while they pretend the other side does it (or does I too).

Sep 18, 2008 - 11:39 am 52. TeamPlayer:

You guys love your talking points. Talk around this one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms

Nixon/Ford R +0.1%
Carter Jimmy D -3.2%
Ronald Reagan1 R +11.3%
Ronald Reagan2 R +9.2%
Bush GHW George R +13.1%
Bill Clinton1 D -0.6%
Bill Clinton2 D -8.2%
George W. Bush1 R +6.9%

Keep on believing the crap they feed you. Oh by the way I don’t mind being called a liberal but I lean socially liberal, fiscally conservative (like Nordqvist conservative). So you can demonize me as an agent of Barry if that makes you feel better but it doesn’t make you more correct.

Sep 18, 2008 - 11:47 am 53. geokstr:

Team Player (on Team Obama, no doubt)

So let’s see what you have to base this $50,000 so- called story on. I googled it and I got lots of leftard sites like HuffPo and Salon, and they all referred to exactly the same story, which referenced what one admitted opponent of Palin said from memory from 12 years ago. He didn’t have any, you know, like, evidence or documentation or anything, but he, like, really remembered it vividly. No other cites or sources, just one enemy of Palin.

You’re correct, we righties didn’t complain when the Bush administration started monitoring the incoming phone calls of known Muslim terrorists to their buds here in the US, or when they monitored their calls when both parties were outside the US but happened to be routed through the US phone system, like a huge chunk of all phone traffic in the world is now, because we have the best phone system in the world. I still don’t have any problem with that. But, hey, when one of those Muslims poisons the water supply of your town, killing tens of thousands, and we couldn’t stop it because we couldn’t monitor them, I’m sure you won’t be out in front screaming that Bush should have done something, right? Heck, that will just mean a smaller carbon footprint for the US.

To equate that with hacking into someone’s private email account for political gain and then smearing your opponent with nothing but innuendo goes beyond dishonesty. And there are NO emails that even peripherally impinged on state business that were found in those emails, you lying sack of it. Even the hacker admitted that, but to you lefties, honesty is a just an outmoded bourgeois value, right?

Let’s make a deal, shall we? I’ll agree that every private email account of Palin and her husband and her mother and her kids should be wide open for public display.

In return, I want every private email account of Obama and his wife wide open as well.

Then we let the citizens (note I specifically exclude all the illegal aliens newly registered as democrats by ACORN here) decide who is the more honorable of the two. Given the huge number of questionable, shady and highly problemmatic associations in Obama’s past that he refuses to talk about, and that the media refused to investigate, that should prove enlightening.

Agreed?

No? I’m shocked.

Sep 18, 2008 - 11:50 am 54. TeamPlayer:

Maybe you like this bit of cognitive dissonance:

1978-2005 under Democrats, 9.9% spending increase, 4.2% debt increase, 12.6% GDP increase

1978-2005 under Republicans, 12.1% spending increase, 36.4% debt increase, 10.7% GDP increase.

Those are the facts ladies and germs, but hey the Republicans want small government no debt driven (transfer of wealth) bubbles, right? I’m sure Carly Fiorina (McCain’s advisor) knows better than Warren Buffet (Obama’s advisor). Obama also keeps the company of Paul O’Neil, Bush’s first treasury secretary and pretty damn conservative.

Sep 18, 2008 - 11:53 am 55. tehag:

Grabbing Palin’s email is no different than stealing Thomas’s video rental records or illegally taping Gingrich’s telephone calls. No one believes privacy should protect vile deeds and corrupt politicians, who, of course, are all Republicans.

Sep 18, 2008 - 11:54 am 56. TeamPlayer:

Hey geokstr, I don’t like pulling out this card, but how about when a family member gets killed in the WTC? Do I get a say then because that’s what happened. Get a warrant. I would rather have stricter preservation of civil liberties than the slippery slope that could ensue otherwise…like say locking up protesters because they are deemed terrorists.

Also smart guy, those were not private emails as she was doing government business on those emails. AND further, I actually agree with you. Politicians have extreme power and zero supervisions. I don’t trust Obama either and I would love it if all these Congress critters were monitored 24-7. That said, Palin’s break-in was illegal and unethical- plain and simple.

Sep 18, 2008 - 11:57 am 57. proud elitist:

I bet the passwords of Barack and Michelle Obama are more sophisticated then, say, a zip code. Of a town. That you live in.

What I bet you won’t find on the Obama’s private emails are state/government conducted business communications.

Sep 18, 2008 - 12:03 pm 58. TeamPlayer:

It’s sad that you’ve all boxed me in as an Obama maniac. I hated his FISA vote and he’s not a perfect candidate for me, at all. But, do I believe he will start wars, use signing statement (to his credit McCain won’t either), provide broader healthcare for displaced workers, increase transparency, preserve a woman’s right to choose, focus on infrastructure and R&D instead of off-shore oil drilling, and boost our foreign standing? YES.

Just a quick aside on off-shore oil drilling:

1) There are 17.8 billion barrels of “undiscovered recoverable resources” (not actual oil, mind you, but potential oil) in areas currently off limits, according to the U.S. Geological Survey.

2) The Energy Information Administration says that once opened, leasing would not begin until 2012, production would not begin until 2017 and would not be of sufficient scale until 2030 to have any impact on the US oil or natural gas market. By this time offshore oil drilling would add approximately 250,000 barrels a day to the U.S. market, against an overall current demand of about 21 million barrels.

To use my father’s vernacular: The amount of oil contained in offshore areas which are current off limits means bubkiss when compared to overall U.S. oil demand.

from a site that’s criticizing Obama:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/08/obama-willing-to-compromise-offshore-oil-drilling.php

Sep 18, 2008 - 12:04 pm 59. TeamPlayer:

tehag, I’m sorry I don’t agree. If you suspect foul play, get a warrant. You use the system to bring down criminals otherwise the criminals start using the system.

Sep 18, 2008 - 12:07 pm 60. Mars vs Hollywood:

Get a warrant.

Okay. What happens when the guy throws away his cell phone and starts using another? Terrorists make a habit of this, as it happens, because wiretap warrants have traditionally been tied to a specific phone number.

Sep 18, 2008 - 12:12 pm 61. AlexinCT:

Hey Teamplayer, as usual you show your lack of understanding about how our political system works. Presidents only propose budgets. Congress passes them and direct spending. Can you point out to me, with the exception of the GWB term, how many of those congresses where republican? Do however keep in mind that te dmeocrats have directed most spending in Congress the last 2 years… I can’t put my finger on it, but things started going south about 2 years ago.

Anyhow. Find me a chart showing the growth/contraction of our economy please. I bet what you see there will be enlightning.

Sep 18, 2008 - 12:16 pm 62. tomw:

AlexinCT,
What was done in dissent that has caused the Iraq war fail? Do you have any specific examples? Was the liberal left cutting funding? Were troops not sent because of dissent? Were bombs not dropped? Please explain how anything said or done at home has caused our strategy in Iraq to fail. It hasn’t because Bush has done as he pleases and nothing said or done here can change the fact that there was no strategy. There was no plan. That’s why we’re in this mess.

Your problem is that you think this is a war that can be won. Well it can’t, because we’re no longer fighting a war. The “war” was won in 2003, mission accomplished. Since then we’re just playing the role of security guards. Our chances at winning this “war” are as good as the NYPD’s chances at winning the war on crime. Just as crime will never end, for as long as we stay as an occupying force, there will always be those against us.

Sep 18, 2008 - 12:17 pm 63. Lilith:

To:Bookem Dano
“considering that McCain is now push-polling Jewish voters in Michigan and Florida with smears linking Obama to pro-Palestinian causes

What smears? Obama spent 20 years of Sundays listening to Jeremiah Wright spout anti-Israel/pro-Palestinian rhetoric.

In any event you are comparing apples and oranges – we are commenting on hackers breaking into Governor Palin’s email and the people that chose to use this criminal act to further their own ends – that is true “moral turpitude” (wickedness or depravity of character or conduct), as you put it. McCain’s campaigning and this heinous act have absolutely nothing in common.

Really, you people are so tiresome.

Sep 18, 2008 - 12:17 pm 64. John Moore:

The issue is not the hacker (actually, the attack was too simple to be called a hack – it showed how Yahoo’s security is wide open).

The issue is how the Democrats responded to the event.

They “deplored” it for a sentence or so, and then immediately used the content for attacks on Palin.

But this isn’t the first time – in 1997, a cell phone call by Newt Gingrich was recorded and then made public, and used by his attackers. Both the recording AND the disclosure of the recording were federal crimes. The Clinton administration never prosecuted anyone.

For the Dems, the law just doesn’t matter.

Sep 18, 2008 - 12:21 pm 65. TeamPlayer:

Oh Alex…You hit on my point. Politicians are not for trimming government. They are empty promises so stop believing that Republicans (who could veto budgets) are for small government. I definitely, 100% believe, that Democrat policies were not responsible for expansion periods. Fiscal policy is a limited driver of growth in my opinion. My point, which I am trying to hammer home, is that Democrats are the devils, Republicans are not saviors and both parties are out to preserve their own power. Who will do the least harm?

Sep 18, 2008 - 12:32 pm 66. proud elitist:

FWIW:

The Republican Jewish Coalition, which is launching a campaign against Obama on behalf of Senator John McCain, sponsored the poll to “understand why Barack Obama continues to have a problem among Jewish voters,” the group’s executive director, Matt Brooks, told Politico. …

“What we did is test, in standard polling methodology, a number of factual issues that have been reported on in the press and are policy positions to see how they’re resonating in the Jewish community,” said Brooks. “The notion that this is a ‘push poll’ is offensive to us.”

Brooks said the RJC, whose board includes advisors and fundraisers for Senator John McCain, had placed 750 calls to Jewish voters in five states: Florida, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.

It appears that NEGATIVE questions were asked to see what works best for McCain in Jewish communities in terms of representing Obama.

And Pastor bullhockey?

Have you read the b*tsh*t nonsense coming from Palin’s pastors?

Glass house. Stones.

Sep 18, 2008 - 12:34 pm 67. ruthie's mom:

Hey, look, I am somewhere to the right of Attila the Hun, but I just don’t share your outrage. It was stupid for Palin to conduct government business with her Yahoo account. Ever heard of OPSEC? In the military that’s short for “operational security;” a basic rule of OPSEC is to conduct sensitive business through secure channels. Palin was just dumb and the hackers are just calling her on it. Anyone who uses commercial email for sensitive stuff is fair game, in my opinion.

Sep 18, 2008 - 12:40 pm 68. tomw:

http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/09/palin-e-mail-ha.html
“the Palin hack didn’t require any real skill. Instead, the hacker simply reset Palin’s password using her birthdate, ZIP code and information about where she met her spouse — the security question on her Yahoo account, which was answered (Wasilla High) by a simple Google search.”

Here’s the real question: Why was Sarah Palin conducting government business using an outside email account? Instead of her government account (which is, of course, subject to laws requiring the retention of government records).

While hacking into an account is loathsome, it doesn’t change the fact that the emails should have been part of her public record. She’s actively avoiding public oversight, what does that tell you?

Sep 18, 2008 - 12:44 pm 69. TeamPlayer:

For Dems, the law just doesn’t matter? So John, how about Randy Cunningham, a good law abiding Republican right? Should I assume all Republican are criminals? Didn’t think so. you recall that most of 2006/2007 was filled with Republican hijinx, right? But again, I’m not defending Dems, just stating that the good/evil us v them mentality is silly.

Now, deploring it for a sentence is the big crime? If you discovered, through foul means, that your state rep was funneling cash for vacations would you sit quietly? Once the cat is out of the bag, it’s public domain and wrong-doings should definitely be highlighted. Now, I didn’t see any substantive wrong-doings, just the use of yahoo for gov’t business, which is a blow to the transparency argument, but there are bigger fish to fry. Like how she’s a creationist idiot.

Sep 18, 2008 - 12:45 pm 70. Allan Yackey:

I cannot figure out where the idea came from that a public official cannot or should not conduct official business away from his/her office.

Most competent public officials (and businees people) do not limit their work to the office. I may be a violation of law to use government assets for personal business, but it has never been against the law to use your personal property to do your public work.

Taking a call or Email from another public official or a citizen at home is wrong? Clearly insanity has taken over. Under this logic, the chief of police could not have the mayor’s home telephone number and the chief of police could not recieve a call at home from his chief deputy.

No thanks to this kind of system. I want Mitch Daniels (Indiana’s governor) to have his personal cell number and personal email account in the hands of as many people as possible. I don’t expect him to go back to the capitol building in order to take a call or send out a piece of information.

Sep 18, 2008 - 12:46 pm 71. A Breather… | The Anchoress:

[...] create “sympathy” for a candidate who – like unlike Hillary Clinton back in 2000 – has SERIOUSLY had her “space” invaded. And just imagine the way they’d be screaming if one of them found their email hacked into. [...]

Sep 18, 2008 - 12:54 pm 72. Nahanni:

The stench of desperation and mental decay emanating from those who still call themselves “liberals/progressives/Democrats”, their parents basement dwelling nutroots and the totalitarian Obamaniac “green shirts” is so thick you need a chainsaw to cut through it. They are not only losing the presidential race but I would not be a bit surprised to see them lose the house and the senate. If that occurs you can depend on these “charming” immature people to resort to violence, that is the M.O. of all totalitarians. Unfortunately for them this is not Europe and the American people will not tolerate their BS anymore.

Sep 18, 2008 - 12:59 pm 73. mjk:

Nice to see people compare terrorists to a VP candidate. yeah, I’m sure that plans of blowing up the Sears tower is EXACTLY the same as someone’s personal pictures and emails from family and friends. Morons.

Sep 18, 2008 - 1:03 pm 74. proud elitist:

Allan, it is not whether she did it at HOME, it is that the account she used was her own personal yahoo account. I’d bet the farm she had security privileges to check her official state of Alaska account from home.

Geography is irrelevant. I can sit at home and check my work email through its secure server and respond to people. Not my gmail account, my work account.

tomw – that she is bush/cheney/addington/etc. approved for the mantle of executive. (she has the “privilege” claim down pat already AND avoiding investigations)

Sep 18, 2008 - 1:08 pm 75. AlexinCT:

Tomw says “What was done in dissent that has caused the Iraq war fail?”

First off, the war in Iraq has not failed. We won the war in weeks. What we are dealing with is the insurgency phase where the Iraqis that do not want the change that follows a war and al Qaeda operatives bent on scoring propaganda points, are causing mayhem. We are wining even against that, despite the fact the MSM, and you it looks like, will not admit that. Even Obama has said so now that it is indisputable. And I can debunk your dumb assertions that these are lost causes with a few words: Germany, Japan, and South Korea. We dealt with much more hostile & capable forces there and yet here we are today. People like you need to convince others there is no possibility we can succeed fast so that we can pull out and it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. Throughout history wars have produced clear winners and losers. It is not until the Vietnam conflict that some pro-communism idiots introduced this ridiculous canard that wars do not solve problems or can not be won.

Second, that dissent I mentioned did not cause our effort during either the war or the insurgency to fail, but it sure as hell gave an enemy with no chance of a military victory HOPE. This prolonged the enemy’s efforts much longer than it would have been if the enemy had known from the start there was no chance for a political victory. It is the same dynamic that kept the defeated North Vietnamese in a conflict they should never have won. And the frightening thing is that the left knew this was the case all along and still did it because they wanted a loss they could pin on Bush. Have no doubt that the angry left’s sole objection to Iraq and the GWoT is that Bush is involved.

Tomw says: “Our chances at winning this “war” are as good as the NYPD’s chances at winning the war on crime. Just as crime will never end, for as long as we stay as an occupying force, there will always be those against us.”

So do you also advocate we pull the NYPD out of New York and just let them be? What about the other cities in the US? Should we abandon the US too? I mean crime will always be there, even if the police stay and try to fight it! Just wondering if you apply this weak logic to its inevitable conclusion. My guess is there is no chance of that.

Sep 18, 2008 - 1:11 pm 76. tomw:

Allan Yackey:

This isn’t “using a home computer for work purposes” issue. She can access her official government email account from home, on the road, anywhere that internet is available. I guarantee it.

The reason this is a problem is there are laws which require retention of government records, email being part of that record. By using an outside account, those emails are hidden from the official record.

Sep 18, 2008 - 1:13 pm 77. AlexinCT:

Teamplayer says: ” My point, which I am trying to hammer home, is that Democrats are the devils, Republicans are not saviors and both parties are out to preserve their own power. Who will do the least harm?”

I guarantee you it will not be Obama. He is an empty headed marxist, and we deserve everything he sticks us with if we put him in charge of the country. I seriously hope you where not trying to argue that Obama would be better for the country. McCain would never have been my first choice, but anyone that tries to make the argument that the most radical and dangerous democrat candidate ever is going to do better in my opinion needs to be put in a mental institution, under suicide watch, for observation. In-freaking-sane.

Sep 18, 2008 - 1:16 pm 78. CR:

Wow, this is all rather silly! Of course the lefty moonbats would jump all over this and publish as much as possible even though there was nothing of consequence in that email account. Let’s all take a big step back and try a different point of view:

Perhaps Gov. Palin assigned an easy password to her Yahoo accounts and let them sit there, waiting for some moonbat to come along and “hack” into them.
The offender would of course be an Obamabot or at least a Democrat, providing the GOP with all kinds of ammunition to use against the socialism-loving lefties.
The GOP correctly surmised that some media types would republish the not-at-all-incriminating emails, allowing them to further discredit a dishonest and biased media machine.

That’s a completely plausible scenario from a InfoSec point of view, where we look at all possibilities. The moonbats should keep that in mind while they defend the actions of a so-called hacker. It is possible that they fell right into a trap, and they are too ignorant, or too overjoyed at their “coup” to realize it.

Sep 18, 2008 - 1:16 pm 79. geokstr:

Team Player:

Of course you have no proof that you knew anybody in the WTC, do you, particularly someone close? It’s like there are several million people now who claim they were there in the stadium when MacGuire hit #62. Right.

In any case, do you propose that any administration (even a possible Obama one) should take a couple days to get warrants when a known terrorist is on the phone right now, and he’s talking to someone in this country who was not known as a terrorist? Oops. Didn’t get the warrant in time and now your town is poisoned? Too bad.

How about this then? They can have a list of terrorists or terrorist suspects, for which they must show some probable cause to put on the list (and not an extremely high burden of proof required), and from that day forward, they can monitor any calls to or from anyone on that list, which can be updated with new names and some probable cause at any time. And it is OK if 98.99% of the list is Muslim, even if that looks like profiling?

Oh, and locking up protestors deemed to be terrorists, do you really wish to open up the rap sheet of a guy named Ayers, who founded an organization with avowedly communist principles, and his bizarre wife, who spoke lovingly of Manson’s disciples “sticking a fork” in Sharon Tate’s pregnant belly? His life is far more intertwined in your hero’s background than has been exposed so far.

Back to Palin – did you read the statement of the hacker? They read every one of the emails, seeking specifically to discredit Palin, and found “NOTHING”? I know you can read (well, at least I know you can type, and seem pretty intelligent).

I’m all for a spirited campaign, and a tough inspection of the issues, but I expect it to be at least somewhat even handed. We have Fox (which only leans center-right but is certainly not in the tank for McCain) and talk radio (which your team is trying to destroy with the so-called Fairness Doctrine). And talk radio hosts at least admit, proudly I might add, to being conservative and that what they say is opinion. They do not simply spread rumors like this tripe against Palin on the internet, but will generally name their sources.

You have, let’s see, ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, CNN, NPR, PBS, NYT, WaPost, LAT, Time, Newsweek, CSpan, most other major newpapers and news magazines, all of which insist that they are totally objective, when every (and I mean EVERY) honest survey done of their “professionals” at all levels consistently finds that they have voted for democrats over 90% of the time in every election since the 1960s, are 9 to 1 registered democrats, and contribute to democrats over republicans by 8 to 1. (Although now many have gone to registering as “independents” who just happen to always back the leftists after a thorough examination of the issues. And if you believe that, I have a bridge somewhere in the planning stages in our largest state I’d like to sell you.) Every survey of content bias shows at least 5 to 1 or higher bias for lefties.

If you’re so proud of being a liberal, if liberal ideas and philosophies are so hot, why don’t all you leftwingers just call yourselves, well, maybe, like, liberals or something? Perhaps you don’t say so because then you might have to admit that you are in Obama’s tank up to your hairline. And/or maybe if you have to spell out exactly what liberal policies are and what they mean for this country, you know that the American citizenry might go running for the hills, or maybe even start cleaning all those guns we’re clinging to?

And then in addition to those “objective” media listed above, you control the schools at every level where the indocrination, not education, of our children occurs, and every entertainment outlet, where every leftwing movie and TV script and all the songs about hos and bitches are shoved in our faces daily. You’ve got the American Bar Association and the Trial Lawyer’s Association in your pocket, 4.5 Supreme Court Justices and half the federal and state judges as well.

It must drive the left absolutely nuts that with virtual monopolistic control over the opinion shaping institutions of the entire country, that the American public still has self-labelled itself 60% moderately to very conservative for decades. That’s because humans instinctively run when someone says “I’m from the government and I’m here to help you.” We know better.

And the more I think about it, I still believe that we should force Palin to open up every email account she’s ever owned to public scrutiny. There is probably something buried in there somewhere that could be distorted into the appearance of not being kosher, as there is everyone’s life, and she could be out of the race.

But if we did that to Obama as well, I guarantee you that that empty-suited phony would never be elected Junior Assistant Doggie-Poo Sweeper Upper, anywhere except in South Chicago, ever again. There is so much major heavy duty smoke (as opposed to whether Palin’s definition of “is” on every minutiae of her life is satifactory to you or not) in his totally unvetted past I’m surprised he has not self-immolated yet.

Sep 18, 2008 - 1:19 pm 80. proud elitist:

CR – she’s not smart enough and the outrage of the McCain campaign and the obliteration (at least last night) of the pics of the emails from Wikileaks last night pretty much guarantee that this was not a “punk” by the Palin people on Democrats.

It was a real event.

Sep 18, 2008 - 1:35 pm 81. tomw:

geokstr:

You obviously haven’t read the FISA bill. That’s OK, either have I. But I do know one thing, warrants can be granted retroactively. Yup, you got it, tap the line now and ask for permission later. Blows a hole in your “wait for 3 days” argument, doesn’t it? So why wansn’t this sufficient? That hasn’t been explained, and likely never will.

Sep 18, 2008 - 1:36 pm 82. Pee Wee Herman, Community Organizer:

Steven Schmidt is giggling his butt off at all you frothing moonbats. Of course, it was a trap. Carry on…

Sep 18, 2008 - 1:56 pm 83. TeamPlayer:

geokstr, he worked at Cantor Fitzgerald and inspired me to begin a career in finance. He loved his wife and two daughters very much, even as he worked 80 hour weeks. He wasn’t a distant counsin and no I don’t have enough proof for you, but that’s ok.

I wish you would get over the team Obama thing. I’m starting with the assumption that all politicians are bad, not liberal v. conservative. Also, policies are a bit of crap on either side. I’m look for pure horsepower, organization skills and foreign diplomacy. Those are big dimensions for me, which are definitely not for everyone. But I think Obama wins on all three.

Horsepower:
1. President of Harvard Law Review
2. Writes his own speeches, eloquent. It shouldn’t be a negative to be competent at that part of your job.
3. Educator and author (not ghostwritten)
4. McCain’s pick of Palin was ridiculous – purely political and it would be laughable if she were a Dem (c’mon be honest). Noonan criticized it. Hagel criticized it and Rove when he criticized Kaine for Obama implicitly criticized her. Her answers to questions look like Bush answering questions and I think we can all agree that he’s an idiot.

Organization:
1. Better campaign, more organized, better funded, and less defections and in-fighting (this is anecdotal) but I was talking to a very senior Obama staffer who happens to have been in politics for a LOOOONG time. I only know him because we’re in the same industry. He remarked that this was by far the best run shop he’s ever seen and he goes back to the mid-seventies.
2. Critical thinker, and listens to right-leaning guys like Paul O’Neil and Chuck Hagel. Why the right denigrates these men I don’t know. I don’t get the Lieberman scolding on the left either. He’s clearly a one-issue guy, Israel, it’s honest and it makes sense why he’s on team McCain.
3. Related to organization – he’s very even tempered and never gets too high or too low. I think he would be a responsible leader and yeah his vote against a pre-emptive strike on Iraq was correct both factually (no WMD) and corresponds with true conservative values to honor sovereign states.

Foreign Diplomacy
1. You got to give me this one. The whole world wants Obama to win. I think his anti-torture stances and charisma would definitely restore some of the luster lost during the Bush years.

Sep 18, 2008 - 1:57 pm 84. gilley:

The Nashville Tennessean is reporting that the college son of a Democratic State Representative from Memphis, Mike Kernell, is being questioned as the potential hacker.

http://tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080918/NEWS02/80918081

Sep 18, 2008 - 2:05 pm 85. Brian G.:

Karl Rove is behind all of this. It is way too convenient that all incriminating e-mails were removed and the only thing that could be found were cute pics of Palin’s kids. This kind of tactic is so obviously Karl Rove, I cannot believe that no one has thoroughly investigated it yet. Of course, the Bush Secret Service and FBI will make sure that nothing on Rove comes out.

Sep 18, 2008 - 2:17 pm 86. Jeff Weimer:

Teamplayer:

There WASN’T government business being conducted in her personal e-mail, that’s what the hacker was trying to find to “derail her candidacy”. There was political business being done, which is appropriate for a personal e-mail and would be illegal if done on her state account, so you can drop that one right there. Look more critically at all the information you are basing things on – you tend to the conventional wisdom rather than cold analysis. For instance (I’m going to threadjack a little here), I assume you probably believe that the policies of GWB are the cause of the Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac debacle. It sounds good, and it plays into the CW of “Laissez Faire” republican economic policies. It couldn’t be further from the truth. They were semi-public government sponsored entities under the direct control of Congress. They were directed to loosen lending requirements to help eliminate redlining and increase homeownership. Now, that’s a worthy goal as it gives more people a stake in society. It was pushed by Bill Clinton and the Democrats in Congress and I applaud them for it. However, it went too far, under the encouragement of subsequent dems and the lure of high profits and bonuses – these were risky loans with the commensurate higher interest rates and steep amortization. These two GSEs have also been run almost exclusively by Democrats, such as Johnson, Mudd, and Gorelick. They fiddled with the numbers to increase their bonuses by inflating profit and deflating losses, which were mounting as early as 2002. The only attempts to avoid the current situation by increasing oversight and limiting their growth came from Republicans – GWB in 2003 and John McCain in 2005. the dems scoffed and held up legislation for reform before the wreck happened, in 2003, Chriss Dodd held the bill in committee – it never saw debate. McCain’s simoilar 2005 bill met a similar fate. Chriss Dodd is the single largest receiver of campaign contributions from Fannie Mae (Obama is 2nd), who lobbied him as first raking minority member and then Chairman of the very Senate committee that oversaw them. No conflict of interest here. So this isn’t the fault of republicans if you dig deep and see that the republicans in general and the executive branch in particular (through the Fed or Treasury) had no oversight and direction on these.

Sep 18, 2008 - 2:30 pm 87. AlexinCT:

TeamPlayer says: “4. McCain’s pick of Palin was ridiculous – purely political and it would be laughable if she were a Dem (c’mon be honest). Noonan criticized it. Hagel criticized it and Rove when he criticized Kaine for Obama implicitly criticized her. Her answers to questions look like Bush answering questions and I think we can all agree that he’s an idiot.”

If McCain’s pick of Palin is so bad what does it say about the idiots on the left that picked Obama, a man that is even more inexperienced and accomplished in every realistically measurable way than Palin is, a hard core marxist in sheep’s clothing, and dangerous to boot? Heck, what does it say about people that are arguing about Palin being a dumb and politically motivated choice so they can defend/prop up Obama TeamPlayer? There is no way I am buying that you are really not a democrat passing yourself off as something else. Only a democrat would not see the contradiction in what he is telling others to look for in their candidate while missing the fact his candidate & party suffer from the same in an orders of magnitude larger dose. Please, quit while you are ahead.

Sep 18, 2008 - 2:37 pm 88. Son Of Tennessee Democratic State Representative Mike Kernell Hacked Into Palin’s E-mail | Right Voices:

[...] Pajamas Media » Palin E-Mail Hacking Brings Campaign to a New Low [...]

Sep 18, 2008 - 2:56 pm 89. TeamPlayer:

Alex, I became an Obama voter so I will defend my position, but I didn’t start out as one. I went to Ron Paul rallies and actually do think the Obama pick is cult-of-personality driven. That said, he’s accomplished a lot as a civic leader, state legislator, and academic. I also think he has more cogent answers to questions than either McCain or Palin (just command of facts, logical consistency and truthiness) and I share his non-pre-emptive war platform.

None of these candidates have experience that’s going to prepare you for the Presidency but since I can’t vote for an idealist like Ron Paul (well I could…) I went with the one that I thought could best adapt (smarts, surrounded by good people, generally used logic {versus creationism}). Also, I will give McCain props. I’m say happy to hear him say that he would never ever use signing statements. That’s your clue that I’m not a zealot – a current Obama voter, yes, but I’m not going to turn a blind eye to Palin’s inadequacy. I’ve heard her speak – she’s a dummy and it’s not about her limited years. If she had come out of a think tank and had blown me away with her command of the constitution, foreign policy, economics…anything I wouldn’t be so anti-Palin. Dude, she’s dumb, and it’s not even close.

I’m sure I can’t convince you that I’m not an Obama devotee. That’s fine. But I hope you’ll remove the vitriol from your posts. Man this has been the most unproductive day ever…

Sep 18, 2008 - 2:59 pm 90. nick:

The low point is those pointing out that Obama has black relatives in Africa.

Sep 18, 2008 - 3:18 pm 91. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Rick Moran
RE: I Resent….

…morals of a marmoset. — Rick Moran

…that statement. Marmosets are adorably cute creatures. These hackers are anything BUT.

I think the term ‘rabid junkyard dog, with mange’ would be more apropos. Either that or certain African frogs that eat their own young.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The difference between a Republican and a Democrat is the Democrat is a cannibal they have to live off each other, while the Republicans, why, they live off the Democrats. -- Will Rogers]

Sep 18, 2008 - 3:19 pm 92. nick:

One person picked Palin as sidekick

more than 18 Million Picked Obama as the MAIN man

their judgement is better than a single man

Sep 18, 2008 - 3:19 pm 93. Nunya:

The whole world wants Obama to win.

You mean the whole world currently stifled by higher taxes and gas prices than us, socialized medicine, and sharia law? That world? They want Obama because next to him, they won’t look like the pussies they are for not standing up to terrorism.

The whole world wanting him is reason enough NOT to vote for Obama.

Sep 18, 2008 - 3:21 pm 94. Chuck Pelto:

TO: TeamPlayer
RE: Yeah?

If she had come out of a think tank and had blown me away with her command of the constitution, foreign policy, economics…anything I wouldn’t be so anti-Palin. Dude, she’s dumb, and it’s not even close. — TeamPlayer

I’d like to see a comparison of your IQ vs. hers.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. I think you’re projecting on that ‘dumb’ business….

Sep 18, 2008 - 3:22 pm 95. steve h:

> You demonize hackers but use the fruits of their labor even as you surf this echo chamber

“Hackers” like that aren’t real programmers. We programmers call them “script kiddies”. They just run scripts created from pieces made by real programmers like security researchers. This wasn’t even a hack at all, it was just social engineering. Nothing to do with the respectable souls that created the internet and web technologies.

Sep 18, 2008 - 3:24 pm 96. tomw:

AlexinCT, and other Palin supporters: Please, be honest with yourself here.
Imagine Obama picked a candidate who:
-Has her 5th child 4 months ago.
-Has a 17 yo unwed pregnant daughter.
-Under investigation for abuse of power
-Is smokin’ hot.
-Sues the EPA to keep polar bears off the endangered species list.
-As a mayor of 9000 people had hired a lobbyist to get federal earmarked funding for city projects $27 million.
-Was mayor of the only city in the state not to provide rapekits free of charge to victims, after state law was passed requiring them to do so.
-Claims to have said “Thanks, but no thanks” to congress for the bridge from nowhere, but kept the money.

She was a lousy pick. McCain really should have vetted her more thoroughly.

Sep 18, 2008 - 3:25 pm 97. Chuck Pelto:

TO: nick
RE: Hey! Where Ya Been?

more than 18 Million Picked Obama as the MAIN man

their judgement is better than a single man — nick

Yeah. And 50 million Frenchmen think Jerry Lewis is funny.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[If all your friends were jumping off a cliff, would you do it to? -- Your Mother]

P.S. Additionally, I find it an interesting indicator that the Dims are more worried about Palin than about McCain.

Sep 18, 2008 - 3:27 pm 98. AST:

This is “the curious incident of the dog in the nighttime.” If the hackers had found anything damaging to Palin or McCain it would have been smeared across headlines everywhere. Instead, there has been next to nothing about the contents of Palin’s email which is bland and non-controversial, but the hackers have made themselves, Gawker and. by association, all the bizarro-left into thugs and lawbreakers. Their assumed moral authority is gone, washed from the gutter into the sewer of power-mad radicalism.

Sep 18, 2008 - 3:28 pm 99. jane:

nick – about 18 million people picked Hillary to be the MAIN one.

Didn’t Biden drop out of the Presidential race because he got less than 10.000 votes?

It looks like Obama was the ONE guy who picked Biden as his sidekick.

Sep 18, 2008 - 3:32 pm 100. nlcatter:

you are not supposed to use personal email accounts for State business
anymore than using personal checking or using state credit card for personal business.

But that assumes you have ethical character and dont try to use your office for personal gain.

Sep 18, 2008 - 3:32 pm 101. AlexinCT:

tomw, and other Obama supporters: Please, be honest with yourself here.
Imagine democrats picked a candidate who:
-Is a self professed marxists.
-Has no real life experience and zero successes.
-Has convicted friends, hangs with race hucksters, and is buddies with terrorists
-Passes himself off as the messiah.
-Agrees that gas prices should stay high and off-shore drilling is bad while Americans suffer.
-When given $110 million to help improve Chicago schools wasted it by giving it to his terrorist buddies & their causes and left the Chicago school kids hanging.
-Is an alumnus of the Chicago political machine.
-Tells people he intends to only tax the rich but has already teed up enough spending that he would have to tax everyone making over $35K to get the money to pay for it.
-Wants to destroy healthcare (think DMV) by handing it to government.
-thinks he is running for president of the world instead of the US (and will likely put other’s priorities ahead of that of Americans).

And this is not the guy running for the #2 spot like Plain is for the republicans, but the one you idiots want to give the top job too. Who is the bigger idiot?

Please. Stop trying to make it look like Plain was a bad choice when the bozo you want to give the top job is even less qualified and has even more baggage than she does. The truth is Palin is the scariest thing that happened to liberals forever. She got picked to run on a republican ticket (no more good old boys attacks) and is a woman that doesn’t need government to protect or support her. If she succeeds she will devastate decades of victimhood politics and cripple the “progressive” movement probably for ever. You libs are desperate. You should be.

Sep 18, 2008 - 3:50 pm 102. geokstr:

Team Player:

Well, it looks like we can have a civil conversation anyway. I apologize if I incorrectly placed you in the Obama tank, but your criticisms of Palin and not the hackers appeared to put you there. I’m a CPA, so maybe that explains why we can talk rationally together.

I am a life long conservative, and an atheist, and love this country, and think socialism is just the shortcut to totalitarianism. I am more against Obama and the collectivist philosophy he embodies than I am for McCain, whom I consider an opportunist, since his differences with conservatives always seem to be on the biggest issues where he loves to poke his finger in our eye.

Regarding Obama, can you point me to a cite or source that says he writes his own speeches? As far as I am aware, and I am pretty well informed, maybe he some substantive input, but his speeches are crafted by talented pros just like every other major pol. This is reinforced by his stumbling and mumbling when he is off the teleprompter. If he was as sure in his mind of the issues as he shows when reading, why can’t he formulate articulate responses off the cuff to the same issues, especially after all those years as a lecturer?

As for organization:
1) Do you really think that he does the day-to-day management of his campaign? I rather suspect that he is the titular head, but his major role in this campaign is “star”. He may make major policy decisions, and pick the candidates to fill his senior positions, but I doubt he does much more than that.

I have been in accounting and auditing management positions for decades in a number of major corporations including 20th Century Fox, and have known many executives like Obama. They never even attempt to learn how to fulfill the responsibilities of their current positions because they are too busy politiking for the next promotion. This explains why he has no real accomplishments in a 24 year career to point to. Being one of the most astounding self-promoters in history does not really impress me as a qualification for this position – so was PT Barnum. Can you tell me what in his background should make me think differently about him?

2) Organization in and of itself is a bit of a weak reason to promote someone to the most powerful position on earth, don’t you think, absent some more substantial reason to do so? The most organized society in human history is probably the old Soviet Union, and the task of trying to plan the entire economy proved to be a disaster.

Based on their respective resumes, I don’t think either Palin or Obama is ready for the big-time, but at least the republicans put their outstanding trainee at the bottom of the ticket and not the top. Until you can point me to a lot more substantive accomplishment than you have, I remain unconvinced that he is ready for the top of the ticket. As prez of the Harvard Law Review, there exists no record of anything he did or wrote there and the others there at the time aren’t running forward to endorse him for his brilliant performance.

He’s been a lecturer, but his ideas on the constitution and what it means are diametrically opposed to mine and all other conservatives. The constitution is not made of Silly Putty, to be molded by whoever is looking at it. It is a document of sound principles that are applicable to this day, specifically designed to LIMIT the size and reach of government. The authors were deliberately trying to prevent the gargantuan monstrosity we have now.

I will certainly grant you that the whole world wants Obama to win, at least the aristocracy, which over there is an actual class that you are born into. And I should care because?

Do we want to follow the European model of cradle-to-grave socialism? That certainly has helped their economies, which have floundered in virtual recession for decades with 10% and more unemployment nearly endemic. They do very little in the way of practical research, with most technology coming from here. Their personal taxes are much higher than here, and their economies will collapse long before ours because their per-capita entitlements are much higher, with unfunded liabilities for their old timers that make Social Security and Medicare look well-funded. Despite the hype about better health care there, their rich come HERE when they need the best.

No thank you.

Lastly – this so-called “torture” that you think McCain and Bush and Cheney are foaming at the mouth to apply to terrorists, who are after all, shouting from that rooftop that will kill us all. Like what exactly are you referring to – do you mean like daily beatings, breaking bones, smashing out teeth, burying alive, killing your whole family, sawing off limbs and heads…no wait, that’s what THEY do!

You must mean that awful carnage we do like having the NYT write fake stories about Korans in toilets, or not giving them proper Muslim diets, or how about that one horrible story where the poor prisoner felt humiliated by being interrogated by a female, and she actually moved her body towards him once? The worst we do, waterboarding, and only on the top leaders with the most information, does no psychological or physical harm. Please…what McCain went through was torture, not this namby-pamby stuff we do. Humiliation, shame, an occasional inadvertant disrespect of their wonderful religion of peace – wow, how awful.

This issue has been so blown out of proportion by the left that I have a hard time believing I live on the same planet as they do.

Palin, by contrast to Obama, spent many many hours with the pro writer to help craft her acceptance speech, and she can easily articulate answers to spoken questions on issues not because they are memorized talking points but because they flow logically from her values and principles. As a fellow conservative, I can probably predict much of what she has to say because her having a solid foundation of core values and principles makes it easy. I could do the same thing with Reagan, but never could with either Bush, Dole, or McCain, because they are just typical politicians who have a set of preformulated responses that they thought reverberated with the masses they were pandering to (just like the average democrat pol.)

My major reason for choosing McCain is that we have been in a war with a 7th religion for decades now. They are not shy about wanting to drag us back to the 7th century with them, and killing us if they can’t convert us. Talking pretty won’t make any difference. There is no such thing as moderate Islam, and in the next 10-20 years there will be a confrontation that will make WWII look like a neighborhood gang fight. And not allowing us to get totally off foreign oil as fast as we can, if that means a thousand nuke plants and drilling in Jane Fonda’s back yard, too bad. Until we do, all we are doing is financing both sides of the war.

Screw that.

Sep 18, 2008 - 3:57 pm 103. geokstr:

nlcatter:

“you are not supposed to use personal email accounts for State business
anymore than using personal checking or using state credit card for personal business.

But that assumes you have ethical character and dont try to use your office for personal gain.”

I am SOOOOO sick of leftwing loons like you that obviously cannot read, but spread unfounded accusations as if they were true.

Read the statements by all your own leftard friends on their nutroots sites that there were no emails that related to state business. Even the damned hacker himself, who was trying to derail her candidancy, found NOTHING.

Either have a sense of honor (look it up)or STFU.

Sep 18, 2008 - 4:19 pm 104. Pee Wee Herman, Community Organizer:

Additionally, I find it an interesting indicator that the Dims are more worried about Palin than about McCain.

No shiite. You noticed that too, huh?

Sep 18, 2008 - 4:23 pm 105. tomw:

AlexinCT:
The difference is everything I wrote is fact about Palin, you’ve mixed in quite a bit of BS:

-Is a self professed marxists.
Not true. Do you have a source?
-Has no real life experience and zero successes.
Seriously? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bills_sponsored_by_Barack_Obama_in_the_United_States_Senate
-Has convicted friends, hangs with race hucksters, and is buddies with terrorists
Buddies? friends? C’mon. He bought property from someone who was later convicted of a crime, served on some board with the Ayers guy, and his preacher was a bit looney, maybe you could call him race huckster.
-Passes himself off as the messiah.
All the “messiah” stuff is coming from the right.
-Agrees that gas prices should stay high and off-shore drilling is bad while Americans suffer.
True. But I think he’s right.
-When given $110 million to help improve Chicago schools wasted it by giving it to his terrorist buddies & their causes and left the Chicago school kids hanging.
Haven’t heard about this one, more info please.
-Is an alumnus of the Chicago political machine.
Yup.
-Tells people he intends to only tax the rich but has already teed up enough spending that he would have to tax everyone making over $35K to get the money to pay for it.
Obama is proposing $130 billion in new spending if every single one of his priorities is signed into law, and probably two-thirds of that is credibly accounted for by rolling back some of the Bush tax cuts, withdrawing from Iraq, auctioning emission credits, and a few other things. So even in the unlikely event that Obama gets every single thing he wants, he’d only be adding a net of $30-40 billion to the federal budget.
-Wants to destroy healthcare (think DMV) by handing it to government.
Healthcare needs work and he wants to make it better. While you can argue that it may not be possible to do so, you can’t say he wants to destroy health care.
-thinks he is running for president of the world instead of the US (and will likely put other’s priorities ahead of that of Americans).
I don’t agree with that.

Sep 18, 2008 - 4:34 pm 106. tomw:

Pee wee:

It’s more about what the Palin selection says about McCain.

Sep 18, 2008 - 4:35 pm 107. geokstr:

tomw:

I have seen so many of you Obama trolls all over any site that does not belong to leftard nutroots. Why don’t you go there and spread your lies, halftruths and smears there instead. Does Soros actually pay you to do this?

“Has her 5th child 4 months ago. Has a 17 yo unwed pregnant daughter.”
And these disqualify her how?

“-Under investigation for abuse of power”
On an issue with a rogue cop who threatened her family, maybe. Given that an Obama delegate has hijacked the investigation, and has promised to deliver an October surprise by delaying the report until Oct 31, the truth may never be known. This show of ethics must make a creep like you proud.
It also is dwarfed by real abuses of power, like shovelling a hundred million dollars to all your cronies at the foundation you are in charge of, or like getting a million collar earmark for the hospital your wife works for just prior to her getting a $200,000 raise and a promotion to Community Outreach Director, whatever the hell that is. Maybe that’s sort of like a community organizer, but with a smaller medical community and no responsibilities.

“-Is smokin’ hot.”
Yes she is.
And you lefties drooled over ol’ Silky Pony Edwards for his ability to channel dead babies in his closing arguments, or was it for his good looks? It certainly couldn’t have been for his fabulous resume.

“-Sues the EPA tokeep polar bears off the endangered species list.”
The EPA’s decision was purely political and had nothing to do with danger to polar bears. It was design strictly to be another roadblock to drilling for oil in Alaska. Even the environmental hucksters who pushed for it admit that you nitwit. The polar bear population has been growing for decades and is now at the highest number since they’ve been tracking it.

“-As a mayor of 9000 people had hired a lobbyist to get federal earmarked funding for city projects $27 million.”
And as her responsibilities and understanding of the corrupting process of earmarks grew, she has become an opponent. Unlike Obama, who LOVES earmarks.

“-Was mayor of the only city in the state not to provide rapekits free of charge to victims, after state law was passed requiring them to do so.”
Another steaming pile of crap. The chief of police said that the cost of the rape kits was billed to their insurance company, and if they had no insurance, the city ate the cost. Stop your lying already please.

“-Claims to have said “Thanks, but no thanks” to congress for the bridge from nowhere, but kept the money.”
The bridge was voted for TWICE by both Obama and Biden, who refused an amendment to transfer the funds to Katrina cleanup. You are so much more moral on this one, aren’t you.

“She was a lousy pick. McCain really should have vetted her more thoroughly.”
The media should have vetted your guy more carefully, because if they had, he would never have been “selected” for the nomination over Clinton.

Sep 18, 2008 - 4:51 pm 108. TeamPlayer:

geokstr, being a CPA would give one a good perspective on empty suits. I’ll think about what you said, seriously. I totally disagree on the Palin thing. I hear her and she sounds like every idiot who falls back on universal generalizations and lacks any true understanding of a concept. I suspect that’s an impasse for us. The torture thing is principles. I really think a core American value is being better, morally than our enemies. I do not believe we are at war with Islam, but I do believe that portions of the Islamic world and Islams lends itself towards more radicalization. For me that doesn’t mean perpetual war – especially with an amorphous enemy. I do see the threat, but I don’t think it always needs to be adressed with a hammer. You know the saying, when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail. I would like to continue this particular dialogue and talk about Obama’s experience more, but I’ll leave you with this:

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1837368,00.html

I would also like to address Alex, who unlike you argues like a 4 year old and distorts facts like a good cheerleader:

- Is a self professed marxists.
If you mean he has certain socialist tendencies and acknowledges class struggles then yes I would agree. You’ll have to explain to me how doling out billions to Sunnis is demonstrably better than his Global Poverty Act, which seems like a perfectly Christian pursuit.

-Has no real life experience and zero successes.
Real life experience? What the hell does this mean? I think academic success is meaningful, I think winning a party’s nominatino is successful, I think teaching a Constitutional Law class (somewhat relevant, no?) at U. Chicago is impressive, Harvard is impressive, and his activism earlier on is also impressive.

-Has convicted friends, hangs with race hucksters, and is buddies with terrorists

You can drag the Ayers thing along. I will give you that some of his associations have not been stellar, but similar associations, if not more damning can be made with Palin and McCain (her pastor, Keating 5, senior lobbyists on McCain’s staff)

-Passes himself off as the messiah.

This is just an outright lie. Show me one reference. I will grant you that some of those voting for him have elevated him a bit too much, but the two are not equivalent in the slightest and it makes all your arguments seem equally stupid.

-Agrees that gas prices should stay high and off-shore drilling is bad while Americans suffer.

He does not agree that gas prices should stay high and he does not believe off shore drilling is bad:

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-2008/2008/08/04/obama-shows-new-openness-to-offshore-oil-drilling.html

In fact, he’s very pro-innovation, wants to establish a Chief Tech Officer and CORRECTLY asserts that the impact of drilling would be minimal. There are dozens of references on line as to the impact of off shore drilling. Again your statements are misleading and/or completely false. Your implications that off shore drilling is a key to energy independence or Palin’s claim that Alaska provides 20% of the energy to the U.S. or McCain’s outrageous claim that Palin is the most knowledgable American about energy is so sickeningly stupid. A few guys and gals at the DOE might have a slight leg up on her no? Just beyond stupid.

-When given $110 million to help improve Chicago schools wasted it by giving it to his terrorist buddies & their causes and left the Chicago school kids hanging.

-Is an alumnus of the Chicago political machine.

- these are two legit statements. I would like to learn more about the Chicago schools issue and the Chicago machine is an inbred Democratic cesspool. I hope he can rise above that scene and at least has a history of bipartisanship in the state senate:

http://politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/654/

-Tells people he intends to only tax the rich but has already teed up enough spending that he would have to tax everyone making over $35K to get the money to pay for it.

Only if you continue blowing our treasury in Iraq.

-Wants to destroy healthcare (think DMV) by handing it to government.

Socialized healthcare is not destruction. I definitely agree that if you don’t incorporate some costs it misaligns interests, but keep in mind that Obama’s plan is feasible and optional. It provides a net to workers who are left without a job and I think healthcare should be available to all in a civilized society. I understand your trepedation, but please stop saying he’s going to destroy healthcare. Other countries with socialized healthcare probably do enjoy a lower top-end of care, but they are not dying off. Their expected life spans are comparable, no?

-thinks he is running for president of the world instead of the US (and will likely put other’s priorities ahead of that of Americans).

You have no evidence of this. I think we live in a flatter world and having some global awareness is not a drawback. This is fear mongering.

Dude, you are a joke. I will talk to a guy like geokstr. You can see his positions and they are generally backed up with evidence. You are a total hack.

Sep 18, 2008 - 4:53 pm 109. Nunya:

Like how she’s a creationist idiot

Nice. There goes that Liberal version of “tolerance” and “decency” and “open-mindedness.”

You really need to check your facts instead of parroting MSM talking points. What she supports is teaching BOTH theories, and trusting the students to make up their own minds. Which should be the goal of a fair and balanced education, which, oh right, has no place in the Liberal Democrat-sponsored indoctrination warehouses.

Sep 18, 2008 - 4:55 pm 110. Concerned Citizen:

Must have picked up a link from Daily Kos here today…the trolls are definitely OUT.

People, misrepresenting yourself to gain access to an email account is fraud and criminal trespass.

It doesn’t matter what was in the email, someone clearly broke the law to get it.

Oh, and in California and New York there are rights of privacy and publicity, too.

I’m surprised no one has mentioned that the person who broke in was the son of a Tennessee Democratic state official (this is tentative)…

From Wired (http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/09/palin-e-mail-ha.html)

“The story was briefly posted Wednesday to the 4chan forum where the hack first surfaced. Bloggers have connected the handle of the poster, “Rubico,” to an e-mail address, and tentatively identified the owner as a college student in Tennessee.
Threat Level was unable to reach the student by phone because his number is unlisted. A person who identified himself as the student’s father, when reached at home, said he could not talk about the matter and would have no comment. The father is a Democratic state representative in Tennessee. Threat Level is not identifying them by name because authorities have not identified any suspects in the case, and the link to the student so far is tenuous.”

It will take another day to get the log files from Yahoo and the “anonimyzer” service used for the hack. Then they’ll have the IP, time and date stamps and that will be it for Mr. Hackster. Dad, you should start getting some bail money ready for Junior….and make sure he doesn’t tell anyone that you or anyone else in the Democratic party put him up to it.

Can you say Emailgate?

Sep 18, 2008 - 5:04 pm 111. AlexinCT:

tomw says:
-Is a self professed marxists.
“Not true. Do you have a source?”

Go read Obama’s own book. He admits he took courses from marxists in college because they appealed to him. He then learned the Saul Alinsky way of doing business. He hangs out with pro-communist/anti-American terrorists. And he believes in wealth redistribution schemes democrats these days pass off as not being collectivism.

-Has no real life experience and zero successes.
tomw says: “Seriously? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bills_sponsored_by_Barack_Obama_in_the_United_States_Senate”

Oh, boo-freaking hoo! None of that crap means nothing! You leftist twits might try to pass this off as experience but this is nothing. And the guy has no successes. I know you leftists think abject failure is a resume enhancer but this stuff is on par with the guy that cuts my damn grass.

-Has convicted friends, hangs with race hucksters, and is buddies with terrorists
Tomw says: “Buddies? friends? C’mon. He bought property from someone who was later convicted of a crime, served on some board with the Ayers guy, and his preacher was a bit looney, maybe you could call him race huckster.”

Does it not drive you nuts to have to so drastically inflate his real life experiences why so drastically having to hide, deflate, spin & minimizing his real problems? His foray into politics was launched at Bill Ayer’s home with Bill’s blessing. Obama spent 20 years in a racist church, had the guy marry him & baptize his kids. And he did not just buy property from Rezko: the two did business together. Obama just threw him under the bus once he was done with him. If the media put in 1/100 of the effort they do chasing Palin rumors on this they would have so much dirt on this guy that he would have to slink back to Chicago in shame.

-Passes himself off as the messiah.
Tomw says” “All the “messiah” stuff is coming from the right.”

Really? I have yet to see any people on the right swoon & faint for Obama at some rally. In fact I Obama himself has said more than once he was our savior…

-Agrees that gas prices should stay high and off-shore drilling is bad while Americans suffer.
Tomw says: “True. But I think he’s right.”

Well getting you to admit one item in this list is a start. In fact I wish more people like you made your argument and took it to the people. Americans should hear what you democrats think so they can see you are god damn nuts.
-When given $110 million to help improve Chicago schools wasted it by giving it to his terrorist buddies & their causes and left the Chicago school kids hanging.
Tomw says: “Haven’t heard about this one, more info please.”

When he served with Ayers on that foundation what they did was spend $110 million to improve Chicago schools. Instead the money was spent on Ayers and his other collectivist pet projects and the kids in Chicago kept schools that failed them (so I can now be told I need to pay more in taxes to help them out).

-Is an alumnus of the Chicago political machine.
Tomw says: “Yup.”

Nothing is a bigger indictment of the guy than this very fact. But I guess on your side this stuff is a badge of honor.

-Tells people he intends to only tax the rich but has already teed up enough spending that he would have to tax everyone making over $35K to get the money to pay for it.
Tomw says: “Obama is proposing $130 billion in new spending if every single one of his priorities is signed into law,”

I call bullshit. The figure is around $700 million and that doesn’t even account for the $1.6 trillion that healthcare would cost. That is over $2 trillion dollars. Go try to pass this lie off to someone that doesn’t have a clue. I am not buying it.

Tomw says: “and probably two-thirds of that is credibly accounted for by rolling back some of the Bush tax cuts, withdrawing from Iraq, auctioning emission credits, and a few other things.”

Man the bullshit never ends with you. He plans to roll back all the Bush tax cuts. What he will get for that is a crippled economy and 20-40% less tax income too. And while I am sure he will have some of those credit schemes – democrats have all kinds of schemes to hide how much they spend just look at why Freddy Mac was created – in the end we will pay for them. And if you think leaving Iraq before we have stabilized will not have horrible costs tied to it you are even dumber than you look. What do you think will happen after Iran has managed to cause chaos and oil is trading at $300 a barrel? Yeah I know, your kind will blame Bush.

Tomw says: “So even in the unlikely event that Obama gets every single thing he wants, he’d only be adding a net of $30-40 billion to the federal budget.”

Get off the bong you liar. I see you did not mention healthcare huh? Obama’s new spending will cost us $2 trillion at a minimum. And the taxes he will impose will cripple our economy. If you think things are rough now wait until this guy makes the Carter years look like the glory days.

-Wants to destroy healthcare (think DMV) by handing it to government.
Tomw says:” “Healthcare needs work and he wants to make it better.”

Well letting government take it over and citizens get the same treatment we get at the DMV does not sound like much of an improvement to me.

Tomw says:” While you can argue that it may not be possible to do so, you can’t say he wants to destroy health care.”

If government takes it over soon those Americans that can afford it will be joining the Canadians that have the kind of healthcare Obama wants to stick us with and heading to Mexico, India, and Egypt for quality care. As someone that has first hand experience with the collectivist healthcare system, in 3 countries no less, I can tell you that what we have now is so far beyond what they have that it is not even worth discussing. So I can say that is pretty much destroyed if Obama gets his way.

-thinks he is running for president of the world instead of the US (and will likely put other’s priorities ahead of that of Americans).
Tomw says: “I don’t agree with that.”

Sure you do not. And yet Obama ran to Europe for some carefully choreographed photo-op and you leftists keep telling us how much the other people of the world want him to be the prez. So spare me the drivel…

The fact is Obama is a dangerous nobody. And yet here we are with you leftists telling us Palin is bad when she is not only better qualified than Obama, but also not an America hating colelctivist.

Sep 18, 2008 - 5:11 pm 112. Pee Wee Herman, Community Organizer:

And what does the Palin selection say about McCain? It says that he’s secure enough in his sense of himself to place an up-and-coming young political star as his VP, without fear of having his manliness threatened. Obama, OTOH, had to pick a political insider wienie for a VP, because Hillary would have made him feel inadequate. He’s afraid of gurlz.

Sep 18, 2008 - 5:11 pm 113. RE:

tomw,

That was pretty brilliant of McCain wasn’t it? Picking a number two for the ticket that has more accomplishment than the Dem’s number 1 was clever (even though it was not very hard, given Obama’s razor thin resume and zero accomplishment) to. A reformer, a Washington outsider, and the fact that she does not make excuses for America doing the right thing is all just icing on the cake.

Sarah Palin has energized a lethargic Republican base. It was a brilliant pick.

Sep 18, 2008 - 5:12 pm 114. RE:

The AP continues to be despicable. One has to be a terrorist or someone intending to do harm to the country in order for the Left to care about privacy rights. It’s the same double standard we’ve come to expect from the Left.

I hope Gawker gets prosecuted along with the hacker. We’ll see.

Sep 18, 2008 - 5:21 pm 115. trangbang68:

Teamplayer, You wouldn’t happen to be Dickhead Durbin (D-Illinois) would you? Hw was the last one to compare our “torturers” to the SS. Very logical, Khalid Shaik Mohammed and Elie Weisel have a lot in common.
Of course this is very similar to the Bush warrantless wiretaps. Sami Al Arian is a terrorist; Sarah Palin the governor of Alaska.
In the world of moral equivilance any port in the storm.

Sep 18, 2008 - 5:23 pm 116. HRPKathy:

All of you that are saying you don’t mix professional and private email accounts – you are revealing that you have never had a responsible position IN YOUR LIFE.

The grown ups read that ‘using a private account for official business’ crap and when we stop laughing at the hubris of your ignorance we want to open up Barry Obama’s private accounts and shove your snotty noses in it. I promise you not only has he used his private emails for public business, but he has done far worse, used his public auspices for campaigning – considered private business. Now that is an investigation that will never happen.

For the record people, we don’t buy it and it doesn’t matter how many foghorn trolls vomit up talking points here(even with the lead in “I’m a republican and a mother” which is a tip off since no republican writes that, it’s called TMI, and the only reason anyone writes that is to try and establish credibility. You FAIL.)

And while you think you are scoring political points, you are simply reinforcing the concept of this post, that politics has reached an all new low – btw – democrats did that all by themselves.

Sep 18, 2008 - 5:50 pm 117. Donna:

Pictures of her kids, ho hum. I can think of certain Dems whose private emails would make for much more interesting reading. Bill Clinton, John Edwards, Barney Frank and Charlie Rangel, for starters. Now, just imagine if their emails had been hacked. Based on what I’m reading here, I’m sure the leftists would have been perfectly cool with that, right?

Sep 18, 2008 - 5:53 pm 118. Evil Pundit:

Obama launched his political career at a fundraising party in Bill Ayers’ home in 1995. He is very closely associated with this known terrorist.

Yet the liberal media are scandalized because Sarah Palin has a private email account with pictures of her children. Where are the priorities?

Sep 18, 2008 - 6:03 pm 119. john from cinncinati:

the preemptive strikes by obama. they are going to use my name, my religion, my race, then they do it first. lets all gang up on the female so we don’t have to talk about themselves. you even have canadians talking shit, about the American girl next door. so now the governor is stupid because she got hacked. he’s such a race baiter.the obama doesn’t have enough gas in his tank that he wants to USE MEXICANS to push his sorry cart over the top. You called them stupid in your ad. you say rush said it, but you repeated it, so you called them stupid too. memin pinguin

Sep 18, 2008 - 6:05 pm 120. proud elitist:

HRPKathy – No, I don’t use my personal email account for work purposes. I have remote server access. I am pretty sure Palin did, too. She, like the White House, elected to use a different email account. Unlike the White House, she chose to use Yahoo.

Regarding legalities, read Volokh Conspiracy. Conventional thought – nothing illegal via Gawker; at least fraud for said hacker.

Sep 18, 2008 - 6:35 pm 121. tomw:

geokstr:

Obama troll? You guys really don’t want to argue the issues, do you? Look, I’m just here trying to figure out how the other side thinks. So far there’s been some good debate, so I’d like to stick around. I’ll keep it civil.

Does having a baby and pregnant daughter disqualify her? Of course I don’t think that, I’m liberal, remember? My point was that this would have the right up in arms if she were the democratic VP. Do you agree? Add all the other issues. Why did he pick her?

What does Obama have to do with her lying about the bridge to nowhere? He voted for it?
What does that have to do with her lying about saying “no thanks” to the money? I don’t get how everybody looks past this or rationalizes it. In her debut, RNC speech she said “Thanks, but no thanks” when she took the money. How do you deny this?

Sep 18, 2008 - 7:57 pm 122. Kelly:

Snaggle-tooth (schnargley)…..One day you will be accountable to God. That is a promise….

Sep 18, 2008 - 8:09 pm 123. geokstr:

Team Player:

I googled (despite their also being in the tank for The One, I still love the search engine) “Does Obama write his own speeches?” and the first of many articles disagrees with yours:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/20/fashion/20speechwriter.html?_r=3&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

Of course, they are the NY Times, so they might be in the tank for Palin.

If you still want to argue that Palin is not qualified to be VP, do I need to remind you that during the primary debates, no less a light than Joe Biden said that Obama was not qualified to be Prez, and Hillary implied as much, saying his qualification was that he had made a speech? Now of course they both say he is the most qualified man in history, but the cat’s out of the bag because we know how they really feel.

You’re serious about this moral equivalency about the very mild things we do to people who are out to kill us when we try to get information that may save tens of thousands of lives, to the barbarous things that our enemies do? Do you also feel that they have all the rights as citizens under our constitution, and should be handled in our criminal courts as well, where their attorneys will have access to national secrets?

While I don’t endorse Alex’ debate style, he has raised some good points that you don’t refute very well:
“- Is a self professed marxists.”
While Obama himself is probably not a Marxist per se, you do realize much of his childhood and teenage years were spent under the influence of professed Marxists? His own father was a self-identified communist, and the childhood mentor that he refers to in his own books is an avowed communist as well:
http://www.aim.org/aim-column/obamas-communist-mentor

I have no idea if this is a right wing site or not, it was the first hit on google for “Obama Frank Marshall” but I have heard of them. In any case, since the left and their media buds refuse to look into or even talk about any of this, the only place to find information at all may be on right wing sites. That doesn’t mean that they are necessary wrong however. I encourage you to do several similar google inquiries and find other sites as well.

-Has convicted friends, hangs with race hucksters, and is buddies with terrorists
The media has gone along with Obama’s disingenuous statements that Ayers was “just some guy in the nieghborhood” but the evidence is growing that they were joined at the hip for a very long time, possibly since the late 1980’s until he left the board of the Chicago Annenburg Challenge just a few years ago. I refer you to a recent article on this very site that has a good summary, but there are other sites that dive more deeply into this:
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/can-obama-survive-the-annenberg-cover-up/
In addition to the other communist connections, did you know that the Weather Underground that Ayers and that slimeball witch of a wife, Bernadine Dohrn, founded, was also an avowedly communist organization with the goal of overthrowing the government. Read what the lovely Dohrn had to say about the Manson murders on this site as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernardine_Dohrn

I was a college students when these two darlings were active and they were really sick puppies. So much for the guy in the neighborhood that did some dumb stuff when Obama was still a fetus or whatever.

And both McCain and Obama have lobbyists on their staffs and as bundlers. Unfortunately, these crooks pervade politics to the extent that they are unavoidable. Joe Biden’s son became wealthy as a lobbyist. Remember that literally every public organization, including all the popular leftist ones like the Sierra Club, retain lobbyists to press their views in DC.

McCain’s involvement with Keating was the most peripheral of the Keating 5 (the other 4 were prominent democrats). He has since asknowledged and apologized for this occurrence which was 20 years ago and has kept his nose pretty clean since then. However, the ties to Rezko and Wright and Hagee and Ayers were very close for decades, and in fact only ended when he had to toss them all under the bus only a few months ago. They were not just acquaintances but integral components in shaping who he is and how he got to where he is.

To compare the depths of the relationships you cited for McCain and the ones for Obama is very misleading, and the standard brushoff you get from the media, who again refuse to even look at them.

“-Agrees that gas prices should stay high and off-shore drilling is bad while Americans suffer.

He does not agree that gas prices should stay high and he does not believe off shore drilling is bad:”

Oh please. He supports offshore drilling the same way the fraud that just passed the house does. By limiting the drilling to 50 miles offshore and permanently blocking it off the west coast, Alaska and the prime areas off Florida, where 97% of the recoverable oil is. And he and they know that environmental lawsuits will prevent even that tiny bit from ever being drilled. For crissakes, the CHINESE are working with CUBA to drill in the Caribbean and we can’t? WTF!

That’s enough for now, but I ask you this – can we agree that the reaction to Palin by the left, the media, the blogs has been vicious, vile, despicable and over the top?

Sep 18, 2008 - 8:12 pm 124. HRPKathy:

proud elitist – so what – and your point is? Nevermind – it makes people dumber having to read your drivel. There is a difference between legal and ethical, the fact that you don’t know the difference all the remote servers in the world won’t ameliorate.

tomw – nobody believes you are an Obama troll – right – and lipsticked pigs fly.

Why did he pick her? Have you seen the polls? I mean the one’s without the 40% democrat weighting.

We don’t deny that as Alaska governor she sought the best interest of her state and kept the federal money but did NOT WASTE IT ON THE BRIDGE BOTH OBAMA AND BIDEN VOTED FOR. It was spent on sensible infrastructure in the best interest of the Alaskan people. Since you obviously have no idea what a governor does, let’s put it in terms you may understand. Her job is to put the interests of her state first. The Bridge to Nowhere was cancelled after the funds were allocated. Who cancelled it? SARAH PALIN. And how do YOU deny THAT? If it wasn’t for her, the bridge would now be under construction. But please continue this feeble line of discussion. I can give you the facts, I cannot understand them for you.

Now you somehow don’t think deciding on a wiser use of taxpayer money as reform. As a liberal I know why you don’t understand it because liberals are fast and easy with other people’s money. That’s why the government needs reform and that’s why Sarah Palin has the record to do it.

Sep 18, 2008 - 8:52 pm 125. proud elitist:

tomw – naive hope. the way you view the world, the way you view America, the way you view what’s at stake in this election, the way you prioritize the issues in this election, the way you view the Constitution, the way you view America’s role in the world, etc. — that’s not how they see things.

You’ve seen their responses to you, to me. They’re nasty little brats about “outsiders” coming onto their daily GOP talking points review clubs to revel in the glory of Hannity’s words, of Limbaugh’s words to actually give a sh*t about some sane person pointing out blatant hypocrisies within their beloved and sacred Palin.

And Johnny POW – Maverick. Inventor of the Blackberry. Protector of Americans from Spain. Achievement in the Mitt Romney tradition of flip-flopping.

And they like God, a lot. And they like to remind people that HE (through their posts, naturally) WILL hold you accountable for your foray into sanity and reason. They expect you’ll be taking the Down elevator in the hereafter. They NEVER remember that the Bible teaches tolerance and kindess.

They don’t find anything hypocrital about McCain having Rovians running his campaign, nothing hypocritical about nailing Obama for lack of experience and rejoicing in the awesomeness that is Palin. McCain is an honorable maverick and Obama is a Chicago gangster thug. Nothing hypocritical about the right’s absolute viciousness of Hillary while crying victimhood over sexism and meanness to Palin. Nothing hypocritical about attacking Obama over Reverend Wright while completely ignoring Palin’s nutjob pastor(s).

They see no hypocrisy in calling Obama an elitist while crying foul if you apply it to McCain.

And, tomw, She. Said. Thanks. But. No. Thanks. To. That. Frakking. Bridge. To. No-where.

Sep 18, 2008 - 9:22 pm 126. proud elitist:

HaRPie: I am a leftie/liberal. I, in fact, actually understand the distinction between legal and ethical. “RE:” said he hoped Gawker got prosecuted along with the hacker.

Had you actually, like, gone to Volokh Conspiracy and read the thread on the Palin e-mail hacking you would actually understand what I posted. But since you’re too lazy to read Volokh, or think it’s some leftist site, here it is for you.

Per Orin Kerr–

“Well, it’s a free country, so anyone can look. But I don’t think Gawker is criminally liable for posting the information. While it’s unseemly and perhaps rather nasty to post it, it’s normally not a crime to post evidence that was obtained as a fruit of crime. There is no claim that the information was obtained in violation of the Wiretap Act, 18 U.S.C. 2511, which might trigger a prohibition on disclosing illegally intercepted materials. The contents here were stored, not in transit, and thus the Wiretap Act’s disclosure limitations don’t apply. See, e.g., United States v. Steiger, 318 F.3d 1039 (11th Cir. 2003). Further, even if a statute did prohibit such a disclosure — and again, I don’t know of such a statute — publishing it is likely protected by the First Amendment under Bartnicki v. Vopper, 532 U.S. 514 (2001), assuming that Gawker was not involved in the hack.”

Sep 18, 2008 - 9:40 pm 127. Chilloutyo:

Let’s have a real civil war in the US! You can have your teachers, students, civil servants, union members, lawyers, old time style politicos, and ugly old people who wear Birkenstocks who have participated in many demonstrations. We will have the military, the real middle class, normal people in the fly-over states without federal flood insurance (obviously not in the list above), and all types of engineers. Let us duke it out dudes!!! To the max…(Green is the new Red).

Sep 18, 2008 - 9:42 pm 128. tomw:

AlexinCT:

Admits he’s marxist? No. Having a family friend who is isn’t the same thing. If you can show where he said he’s marxist, I’ll listen.

He has experience and sucesses. You can argue about how much, but you can’t claim zero.

Conspiracies about the media failing to investigate his relationships? Please. If there was something there, Foxnews would hav

2 trillion for health care? Where did you get that figure from? Let me put down the bong….Oh, sorry, did you want a toke?

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jul/08/nation/na-obamaplans8

“Among other proposals during the course of the campaign, Obama has said he would strengthen the nation’s bridges and dams ($6 billion a year), help make men better fathers ($50 million a year) and aid Iraqis displaced by the war ($2 billion in one-time spending). Last week, he pledged to give religious and community groups $500 million a year to provide summer education to low-income children.

Other proposals are more costly. Obama wants to extend health insurance to more people (part of a $65-billion-a-year health plan), develop cleaner energy sources ($15 billion a year), curb home foreclosures ($10 billion in one-time spending) and add $18 billion a year to education spending.

It is a far different blueprint than McCain is offering. The senator from Arizona has proposed relatively little new spending, arguing that tax cuts and private business are more effective means of solving problems.

The total price tag of Obama’s plans, according to his campaign, is $130 billion a year. On top of that, Obama is proposing a middle-class tax cut of about $80 billion a year.”

Sep 18, 2008 - 9:45 pm 129. teeraylaffs:

Governor…a prestigious job…there are only 50 of them in the U.S. (not 57) and they are responsible for an entire state’s economy.

Senators are in the back pocket of lobbyists…if they show up at all. This one hasn’t.

Vote for Obama at your own risk. As Russia starts to flex its “Super Power” muscles…do you really want someone in office who thinks small countries can’t pose a threat to the U.S. And thats just the tip of the iceberg. You Dems can keep whining…while your senate does nothing. You’ll have at least 4 more years to cry, as Obama disappears into oblivion…following the likes of Kerry…and the rest of your unpatriotic cry-babies!

Sep 18, 2008 - 9:56 pm 130. tomw:

HRPKathy:
Got it, anybody who doesn’t vote republican is a troll. Sorry, but somebody has to come in here and set things straights.

“I told congress, thanks but no thanks” – what does that mean? in the context of earmark spending? I watched her speech and I assumed as everyone did, that she turned down the funds.

You say she didn’t waste the money on the bridge, that’s great but then she wasted it on something else. “Gee what should I do with this extra millions of dollars?”- I’m sure it was really difficult finding uses for the money. Now, whatever you want to say about the project or who voted for it doesn’t change that what she said was false. You can throw all the irrelevant facts you want around, it doesn’t change that she lied.

Here’s what her speech would have sounded like, had she told the truth:
“I told congress, OK, fine I’ll kill the project, but can I still keep the money?”

Sep 18, 2008 - 10:46 pm 131. AlexinCT:

tomw says: “The total price tag of Obama’s plans, according to his campaign, is $130 billion a year. On top of that, Obama is proposing a middle-class tax cut of about $80 billion a year.””

Yeah sure. A democrat that has promissed everyone some pay out is only spending $130 billion huh? Even if you where right, and you are not, you continue to ignore the big elephant: healthcare. That is going to be another $ 1.6 trillion dollars as at a minimum. But hey, pretend that is not the case. We are done. Have a look here: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/feb/22/obamas-spending-plan/

Sep 19, 2008 - 3:15 am 132. BlueMax372:

For the information of those who don’t know, and this now obviously includes Mr. Obama and his disciples at the Associated Press, it is not uncommon for government officials to correspond privately via private e-mail and informal telephonic contacts referencing “official business” matters. This does not constitute “conducting official business via private e-mail” but rather represents a healthy exchange of ideas outside official channels of communication. It also represents “greasing the wheels” of governmental procedures. Of course, greasing the palms would be an activity much more familiar to Mr. Obama and his minions.

Sep 19, 2008 - 3:53 am 133. SAF:

Yet another incident showing how biased the press is against republicans. Had Obama been put under the same microscope as Palin he would not be the nominee. If Obama had been a republican he wouldn’t be nominated for dog catcher.

When people say they have the “right to know” all these personal things about a candidate what they are really saying is they want to find the silver bullet which will destroy a candidacy. I guess the left will need to look into Sarah Palin’s garbage can since there was no silver bullet in her private emails.

Or they could save themselves the trouble and just lie.

Sep 19, 2008 - 4:20 am 134. RE:

proud elitist,

For the same reason that knowingly trafficking in stolen goods is a crime, Gawker should have criminal liability in this case.

Sep 19, 2008 - 4:26 am 135. Herb:

“While it is true that the Palin email hacking was apparently performed by a single individual — one with no ties to the Obama campaign or the Democratic Party that we know of at this point — there is no doubt that there is a sizable segment of this strange brotherhood that cheers this kind of activity on and revels in their reputation as rebels.”

I’m putting that in my “straw man” files…unless you can identify the Obama campaign officials and Democratic Party members who applaud the hacking of e-mails account. Oh, you can’t? You can only slam journalists for reporting the story? Well look in a mirror, bud!

You reprinted the e-mail addresses too. Are you cheering on the hackers too?

Sep 19, 2008 - 4:39 am 136. TeamPlayer:

geokstr

1. I definitely admit that the media has gone overboard on Palin.

2. Thanks for the NYT article. He does have some professional assistance, but as the TIME article pointed out he also writes his own speeches. He gets help, but you can also admit that he’s a very capable writer and orator (which should be a strong indicator of intelligence).

3. Marxism. Here we have an ideological divide. I am a professional investor and capitalist. However, I very much acknowledge the need for some level of income redistribution. I see homelessness and poverty every day and I see the keiretsu like board systems that cause senior management pay to spiral upwards indicative of a monopsony. I DO believe government has a duty to regulate market distortions. Marxism is a philosophy. Various implementations, say Stalinism are certainly wrong but at it’s core there are some worthy and notable tenets.

4. Friends. The Chicago machine and prior associations are problematic, but I would contend that all politicians have these sorts of associations. The degree of lobbying in the Obama camp is no where near the McCain camp and the Keating 5 association was real. He went on extravagant trips and dinners on the guy’s bill. His quid pro quo was very real and there’s clear clear evidence of abuse of power. It was not tangential. That said, you know I could pull in all kinds of quotes about Palin’s pastor, the secessionist groups, etc, but just as I know it’s disingenuous guilt by association. I think you should consider who both camps are surrounding themselves by NOW. One camp is using ex-Bushies, lobbyists and hacks like Carly Fiorina. You’ll need to trust me on this that she sucks. The other camp has a diversity of advisors who are ultra competent.

5. Offshore drilling. More critical to my argument is that offshore drilling is stupid. Plenty of sources show the potential impact to be nominal. It’s kind of like the gas tax holiday, which, since it’s my profession, I can tell you is ridiculous dumb and pandering. My argument was never about his support.

6. I also refuted much of Alex’s babbling so give me some credit rather than pointing out the 1 or 2 things I’m still chewing on. I hope you can at least have some empathy for Obama, his campaign and his supporters.

Sep 19, 2008 - 5:03 am 137. Believer:

Go to:

terryfrank.net/?p=3591

for reporting on the Democrat Tennessee Congressman’s son who may have ties to Plouffe and who it appears hacked into Palin’s account.

First commenter mentions ties to Obama campaign’s Plouffe.

Sep 19, 2008 - 6:11 am 138. one4REALchange:

This week, someone was able to hack into Sarah Palin’s Yahoo! e-mail account, because she hadn’t taken the proper security measures.

So it’s official — no one in the Palin family uses protection.

Sep 19, 2008 - 6:30 am 139. tomw:

AlexinCT:
reading is fundamental: obama’s healthc are plan: $65 billion per year, as stated in both the article you posted and the one I posted. The $1.6 trillion figure is being pulled out of your ass. (think goatse).

Sep 19, 2008 - 6:48 am 140. HRPKathy:

tomw,

“I told congress, thanks but no thanks” – what does that mean? in the context of earmark spending? I watched her speech and I assumed as everyone did, that she turned down the funds.

You say she didn’t waste the money on the bridge, that’s great but then she wasted it on something else.

You ‘assumed’ alone. I didn’t assume anything except that she cancelled the project for the bridge to a community serving 50 people. You make another assumption equally stupid – that she ‘wasted it on something else’. Prove that. Reform is about taking the allocated funds and using them to the best interest of the Alaskan people – that is her current job. You thought she’d give them back? Bwahahahahaha. Have you seen Alaska? Do you understand the transportation needs of that complex environment? No.

Again, I can give you the facts, you can distort them to shape to your world view (moonbattery is a symptom of troll behavior- if it walks like a duck….)

one4realchange – the change you are advocating is that the victims are responsible for the crimes. Don’t put you on the jury for the rape trial – you know that woman was ‘askin’ for it. The kind of ‘change’ you seem to be advocating is a lawless and immoral one. Keep talking, bet you’ll convince more people to vote for McCain/Palin, just to preserve EQUAL PROTECTION under the law. Apparently key to the democrat worldview, only those whose ideology meets with their standards deserve protection under the law.

Liberal fascists.

TeamPlayer – as for your income redistribution – I suggest you redistribute YOUR income, and get your slimy hands out of my pockets. And your comment about offshore drilling is simply ignorant of the facts. Most accessible reserves lie within 50 miles of shore, additionally the costs for drilling and recovering reserves in deeper water go up exponentially. The expression ‘any port in a storm’ has no meaning to you as you would deny help to our economy unless it was perfect and a total solution. Hope you don’t solve personal problems that way. As to Obama’s writing skills, all we have are two books about himself. No laws. No law school papers (odd for a Law Review editor). And a missing senior thesis from Columbia. We’ll have to take your word for his writing skills as all other evidence either never existed or has disappeared due to its potential for embarrassment. And speaking of embarrassment – his friends.

No. Not all politicians have friends like Obama’s.

Sep 19, 2008 - 7:04 am 141. Believer:

Obama’s Spanish Community Ad is another low.

Since his words are manipulated in it, Rush Limbaugh writes the WallStreetJournal to explain the malignancy of the ad.

BO’ll do anything, folks, to win this thing. Disgusting.

He doesn’t represent America’s ideals or greatness. I hope November 4 is the last we hear of him. He can go back to doing nothing in the Senate.

Sep 19, 2008 - 7:27 am 142. Eowyn2:

The journalists used to go through the family trash bin to discover what they had for dinner. Computers sure have made it easier.

and yes, this (and all) hacker should be prosecuted under the fullest extent of the law.

Sep 19, 2008 - 7:28 am 143. proud elitist:

Yes, HRP, I belive she focused on a road to that bridge to nowhere. And she previously built a sports complex in Wasilla that is a lemon.

The actual isuse with the BTN is the way the McCain campaign is presenting it. Sarah came out and said it first. “Thanks, but no thanks.” Except not technically true. McCain talked about wasteful pork barrel spending, a bridge to nowhere and wouldn’t have been better for that money to go to Katrina relief.

((blinks eyes))

“Should be criminally liable” is not equivalent to “is criminally liable.”

Gawker’s postings can be considered unethical. But as the Bush Justice Department has shown us – a la USAtty scandal – as long as it is not illegal, then what’s the problem?

Sep 19, 2008 - 8:23 am 144. Jbl:

mmm…maybe this democrat legislator should give up his office and go be with his kid, right?

Sep 19, 2008 - 8:45 am 145. Herb:

Kudos to TeamPlayer. Too bad s/he’s on my side. I’d love to argue with someone who brings the goods instead of straw men and nonsense.

Sep 19, 2008 - 9:10 am 146. tomw:

HRPKathy:

There are only two facts that matter. Everything else doesn’t matter.
1 – she told the world she said “thanks but no thanks”
2 – she kept the money.

OK, so I guess this is where our opinions differ. When I hear someone tell me they said “thanks but no thanks,” it means they turned down the money.

So tell me, what was she saying “no thanks” to then?

Sep 19, 2008 - 9:15 am 147. tomw:

HRPKathy:

Also remember, where talking about earmarked funds here, which she claims to be against. What could possibly be worse than pork barrel projects with earmarked funds? Earmarked funds that still go to the state even after the project was canceled.

Also note, I really don’t have a problem with her canceling the project, or taking the money. My problem is her standing in front of 30 million Americans and telling everybody she’s against pork barrel projects and earmarked funding and that she told congress “thanks but no thanks” – That’s my beef.

Sep 19, 2008 - 9:22 am 148. POWinCA:

No one “hacked” into her account, guessed her password, or tricked her with a Trojan Horse. People have tried to replicate the “password reset” entryway and have failed every time.

Occam’s Razor tells us the simplest explanation is the most likely explanation. Whomever broke into her account had easy access to her account:

Someone at Yahoo headquarters.

That cave of moonbats had the method, motive, and opportunity to do this.

The other leads are just a Red Herring or wild goose chase. People claiming credit are just like those who confess to being serial killers – trying to get attention. Internet security “experts” are trying to impress us with highfalutin jargon to get themselves recognized as experts.

An even simpler explanation is that she “broke in” herself, but I can’t think of any assured benefit to a False Flag operation. I also doubt that she or anyone she knows is familiar with the web venue to which these were posted.

Tell the FBI to start their search in Sunnyvale, California.

Sep 19, 2008 - 11:06 am 149. tomw:

POWinCA:

Apparently you missed the other article on the front page. They caught the kid, and his dad is a Democratic legislator from Tennessee.

Sep 19, 2008 - 11:22 am 150. rabbit:

This reminds me of the burglarizing of the DNC in 1972.

Such acts attack the very foundations of democracy. Those that excuse this get the government they deserve.

Sep 19, 2008 - 12:17 pm 151. HRPKathy:

tomw,
The ‘thanks but no thanks’ was a response to a fiscally ridiculous project. I suppose you don’t think government should repair and develop infrastructure since you are confining governors to a strict no earmarks diet, eh? It seems a narrow standard for effective governance to me. If you are ever governor, let me know which state so I can avoid it.

Understanding the role that she has as governor is perhaps your greatest obstacle in this discussion. You are implying she misled you, I think she simply overestimated you. It doesn’t make her wrong, it makes you, well, thick.

When she says ‘if we want a bridge like that, Alaskans will build it’ she means that it was a bad investment for her state, and when she looked into it, the expense, the value for the dollar is what killed it. It’s not only the appropriate job of a governor to seek and best use federal funding, but it is the act of someone looking out for the interests of her people. Odd thing in government, I know. Of course the anti-earmark claim might be because of the 87 pages of single spaced items she vetoed in the state budget. She didn’t allocate the Nowhere funds; Biden, 0bama, and others voted for that money. If you don’t want Alaska to have it, get made at the ones who voted for it.

I wonder if you parse Obama’s words so carefully? Apparently even the Washington Post is calling his language ‘deceptive’ in this article:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/18/AR2008091803159_pf.html

I know it’s really important to tear down Sarah Palin’s authenticity. It’s what is really killing Obama since most people in their heart of hearts doubt him. But this argument about the Bridge to Nowhere is a nonstarter. If she wasn’t for providing funds for her state you’d use that against her and say that she doesn’t put government on the side of the people. It’s a lose/lose argument for you guys. She did her job. I want someone like her looking at the huge wasteful spending in Washington and finding a better way to spend those dollars, and in the case of gas taxes, suspending taxes and offering refunds. It’s not the government’s money. It’s the people’s money.

Sep 19, 2008 - 12:49 pm 152. nlcatter:

DONT use personal accounts for offical
business!

DUH!

Sep 19, 2008 - 1:35 pm 153. Michael:

I really do dispise the name calling from both sides, however there is an obvious reason the liberal personages are being called trolls. When someone comes into a forum such as this and works diligently to convice people who normally come here that they are deluded at best or crimally stupid at worst and keep at it all day, well that speaks for itself.

Tomw, if you believe there is anything positive in Karl Marx’s theology they you are no way a moderate. Marx’s theories come from a profound ignorance of human behavior in the aggregate. The only possible outcome is Stalanism. Only secret police and total government control can force people to do things so against their own and their families best interest. The ruling elite (politicians) are the only ones to profit in the end.

To be fair captialism is the best model for human economic interaction, uncontrolled capitalism is nearly as bad as Stalinism.

Being able to write a speak and deliver it well gives no clue as to intelligence. It does say that he is good with words. Period. It says nothing of his cognitive abilities or his grasp of the real world. This is no way to choose a leader because there is all too many examples of great speakers who wrote their own speechs whom no one would like to remember today.

I wish I could vote for Obama. He comes across as someone I would really like. However after listening to him all through the campaignes I just don’t believe in what his policies.

If you think Gov. Pailin is stupid than I must say I can’t trust your judgment.

As to our current economic mess don’t pretend it is a Republican thing. There is more than enough evidence that Democrats voted for and were bankrolled by these dead head financial institutions as well as some Republicans.

The real tragedy is that most politicians from both sides of the eisle “vote with their pocketbook”, or rather with someone elses pocket book in their hands.

Sep 19, 2008 - 2:21 pm 154. tomw:

HRPKathy:
So you think she was saying “no thanks” for the project? So this project came from congress? Because that’s who she claims to have said no thanks to. “I told congress, thanks but no thanks.” The only thing she was receiving from congress was money, which she still accepted. So do you want to try again? What was she saying “no thanks” to if not the money? Ohhhh. So it was because Biden and Obama voted for it, she was FORCED to accept it. I see, as governor of her state, she isn’t permitted to turn down federal dollars.

You’re right that I don’t know the money was wasted on something else. But are you saying that had they not gotten the earmarked, bridge to nowhere funds, there would have be no infrastructure repair or development? The state had no plans for this until the bridge to nowhere project got axed? You know that’s crap, and the bridge to nowhere funds was simply a surplus to her existing budget. I’m sure she didn’t have too much trouble finding useful was to use the money, and none of it was “wasted.”

Again, all this other stuff is just noise to distract from the single truth that Sarah Palin lied in her RNC speech. “I told congress ‘thanks but no thanks’” <- That’s a lie.

Sep 19, 2008 - 2:27 pm 155. HRPKathy:

tomw,
You should have stopped here:
“You’re right that I don’t know the money was wasted on something else.”

Because otherwise, you have no point.

Again I say, her job was to allocate those federal dollars – that’s one of many things a governor does. If you have no evidence that money was wasted then you have nothing but your misunderstanding to label as a ‘lie’. That sounds like a personal problem.

I’ve noted on several occasions that when a liberal disagrees with a statement, true or false, it is called a ‘lie’. Saying it is a lie doesn’t make it so, although that is the predictable outcome of any attempt at a reasonable discussion with an Obamabot.

The bridge was not built. Who stopped it? Governor Palin. And bottom line that is the main problem with this senseless accusation. The rest of it is your attempt to impose your personally desired misconceptions on others.

Sep 19, 2008 - 3:50 pm 156. Kareem:

One question: why do the antics on 1 lone hacker become attributed to those of us who oppose warrant-less wiretapping? Hackers victimize ALL of us and I highly doubt anyone from the left is applauding this intrusion of Gov. Palin’s privacy. This election is about: the economy, the war, and the Supreme Court. This is not about a smart 15 year old with a G4.

Sep 19, 2008 - 4:14 pm 157. Michael:

Hm, a concerted effort to destroy a popular candidates reputation. Not the Presidential but the Vice Presidential. Not a moderates action of debating issues. A partisan attack.

Troll.

Sep 19, 2008 - 4:14 pm 158. Satori:

I think I threw up in my mouth a little reading all these comments. You people sadden me….WAKE UP! Palin, Obama…samey samey. They are all rich elitists with no idea how the rest of us live. VOMIT.

Sep 19, 2008 - 4:55 pm 159. FlyOver:

Everytime I think the campaign can’t get any lower, it gets lower!

Sep 19, 2008 - 5:07 pm 160. Red Blooded American:

While I do not in any way condone the invasion of privacy and violation that occured, this incident underscores the poor judgement Palin displayed in conducting state business from a yahoo email address. Any halfway serious web service (banks etc.) recommend to all users not to use yahoo addresses precisely because they are so insecure. I don’t want anyone who doesn’t get this anywhere near sensitive information and national security decisions.

Sep 19, 2008 - 6:17 pm 161. HRPKathy:

Fact: There was nothing in those emails Red. If there was something wrong, produce it. Otherwise stop spreading lies. I’m sure Yahoo should shut down their email service entirely. Happy?

Satori? You think Palin is rich? OMG. On what planet? She didn’t have a known convict help her buy her house, nor did she get a sweet deal from the Northern Trust Bank in Chicago when poorer people were paying higher rates. She worked her way through college, it was not an AA handout. Setnet fishing (how she earned her living in the private sector) is hardly the hobby of a rich girl. Obama and Palin are not the same. Ignorance can be corrected, but stupid is forever.

Kareem – He is 20 not 15. He is the son of a democrat politician and knows Obama’s campaign manager and he himself stated that he was looking for dirt on Sarah Palin to derail her campaign. So it was political and from the party that would comply with the razing of bldgs before they would permit legal collection of evidence. There’s a double standard alright, but it sits squarely on the left.

Sep 19, 2008 - 7:49 pm 162. Andrew Ian Dodge:

Pretty rubbish hacker…after all…he got caught. Lets just hope he gets whats coming to him from the Feds.

Sep 20, 2008 - 4:49 am 163. Nine-of-Diamonds:

While I do not condone using weak passwords to protect Yahoo accounts, the Left’s attempt to divert attention from the victim of the crime is getting quite predictable. Any halfway serious political commentator should be willing to offer an unqualified condemnation of this behavior and leave it at that. Notice how specious remarks about wiretapping and data security take up most of these hacks’ posts, as opposed to criticism of the very person responsible for the incident. In fact, many of said hacks continue to promote the lie that the person responsible was “non-partisan”, as if that would somehow make it OK. I don’t want a party that has been this blindly partisan anywhere near the Presidency.

Sep 21, 2008 - 9:26 am 164. AlexinCT:

Hey tomw, I did guess I missed this post of yours back when, but let me set the record clear.

tomw: “reading is fundamental: obama’s healthc are plan: $65 billion per year, as stated in both the article you posted and the one I posted.”

Did you miss the point Obama made where he would have government take over healthcare? You want to break down for me how we will cover some 320 million Americans and (some 20 million illegals because the democrats will cover them too) for a measly $65 billion a year? Not unless our health plan will consist of one aspirin a day and a bullet in the head so they can harvest our organs when we get ill. Google it. Obama can claim he plans to only add another $65 billion and the DNC operatives that try to pass themselves off as the impartial media might parrot him, but the facts are the facts: if we get what Obama wants government will have to at a minimum partially take over healthcare, and that is 1/6th of our GDP right now. Go lookup how much money that is please.

tomw: “The $1.6 trillion figure is being pulled out of your ass. (think goatse).”

That is the minimum amount having the government take over healthcare will cost fool. But why would I expect someone that lives in Obama economic fantasy land to have a God damn clue about what things really cost.

You libs can spin this any which way you can but Obama will increase our spending by $2 trillion at a minimum (more likely we will get stuck with another $3 trillion in colelctivist spending) and he would have to drastically increase taxes to cover that huge new expenditure, because the only thing democrats will cut is defense. After all, if we do not fight back, the war will go away in the mind of these fools…

Sep 21, 2008 - 2:18 pm 165. Jack:

Here’s the thing I think would be interesting is going after those who posted the stolen pictures of Palin’s kids. Posting stolen pictures of minors is illegal and I very much hope they go after those who posted them.

Sep 22, 2008 - 10:27 am 166. tomw:

AlexinCT:

Seriously, go read the plan yourself. The plan isn’t for government to “take over healthcare” as you suggest. It’s simply a stop-gap measure for the uninsured and to make sure health care is available to everyone. It isn’t for government to provide healthcare for everyone. http://www.barackobama.com/issues/healthcare/

I find it very startling how much people on this site prefer to make their own guesses and speculations as to what Obama plans to do instead of simply going to his site to see what he says he’s going to do. It must make arguing your point much easier when you can make up facts about the opposition.

Sep 22, 2008 - 12:02 pm 167. RAY:

I believe that Sara Palin herself Deliberately took pains to make it very easy for someone to “hack”"?? her email; using security questions and answers that a fifth grader could find. By doing this she appears as the ‘victim’. She is trying to revive her dying campaign as well as McCains’s presence.

Oct 8, 2008 - 5:16 pm

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