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Pontius Palin and Messiah Obama

"Jesus was a community organizer; Pilate was a governor" is ahistorical and just plain dumb.

September 17, 2008 - by Timothy Furnish

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The “community” Jesus “organized” would have to be defined as primarily the core 12 apostles (13 if we count that important, but late-arriving, St. Paul), although we should perhaps include the 70 missionaries of Luke chapter 10. Looking at these two groups in the Gospels, it’s obvious that 1) neither group consisted of folks who lived “in close proximity,” and in fact contained members from different areas of Roman-occupied Judea; 2) neither the 12 nor the 70 were concerned with “common self-interest” but, on the contrary, were united around Jesus’ call for them to deny their own self-interest; 3) Jesus didn’t exactly have any Roman imperial social agencies from which to apply for grants, especially for messianic claimants. Jesus called these men — sorry, Dan Brown fanatics, the Gospels are clear that the 12 and the 70 were all male, a fact that would get Him disqualified for community organizing on Chicago’s South Side, no doubt — to take up a cross and follow Him, not to figure out how to write grant proposals to the first-century version of ACORN, had such a thing even existed. He also empowered them to heal the sick, drive out demons (not Republicans), and forgive sins. Therefore, “community organizing” doesn’t even remotely describe what Jesus did.

More importantly, the third problem with this trope is that it is an attempt — conscious or not — to undermine the gravity of Jesus’ role in Christianity and in history. From Albert Schweitzer to Episcopal “Bishop” John Spong to Oprah, outside-the-Christian-mainstream critics have tried to make Jesus only a man with a plan, a social reformer, a self-help guru, you name it — anything but the crucified and resurrected Son of God as described in the Apostles, Nicene, and Athanasian creeds. Community organizers don’t raise the dead, heal the blind and sick, walk on water, or return from death themselves.

Liberals are free to disbelieve what orthodox Christianity teaches about Jesus, but they are not free to ahistorically and insultingly appropriate Him for their own narrow political agendas, no more than the religious right is. Ms. Brazile is Catholic, so she should know better; Representative Cohen is Jewish, so he can be forgiven for not, although it’s worth observing that were a Christian legislator to opine publicly on a non-Christian religious figure — saying, for example, “Mohammed was (merely) a community organizer” — the critical outcry, and not just from Muslims, would almost certainly be deafening (at best); so why the double standard when a non-Christian makes a glib, politically expedient remark about Christianity’s founder?

Fourth, it’s ahistorical to equate Palin, a state governor in the 21st-century American republic, with Pontius Pilate, a provincial governor in the first-century Roman Empire. It’s pathetic, really, that this has to be explained to historically ignorant Democrats, but Sarah Palin was elected to her office, not appointed by an emperor — and no amount of jejune Bush-bashing will change that. As for responsibility and administrative experience, Alaska is about 23 times larger than the Roman Judea under Pilate’s watch. To be fair to Pilate, however, Alaska is not full of oppressed, resentful, conquered people longing for a messiah — unless you count the folks at Palin’s church, as the media does. And unlike Pilate, Palin has not had to order the slaughter of any such rebellious natives, much less of any prominent rebel leaders with messianic pretensions — which of course is the implied main point when Democrats analogize Palin to Pilate.

Fifth, the most egregious aspect of the “Pontius Palin” trope is the implied messianic role it imputes to Barack Obama and the fuel it throws on extant political fires. We’ve all heard and read about the deliverer, bordering on messianic, role imputed to Barack Obama by his supporters — and not just Chris Mathews — whether or not Obama buys into it himself. It’s insulting enough, both historically and religiously, to imply Obama’s messianism by suggesting he was, like Jesus, a community organizer; it’s even more offensive to imply, as Democrats clearly are in equating the jobs of Pilate and Sarah Palin, that Obama is a messiah targeted for liquidation.

We can already look forward, should McCain win, to cries of “the Republicans stole another election” and, of course, “America is racist.” Will we also be treated to post-messiah stress syndrome, in which Obama’s loss will take on not just political and cultural but eschatological overtones for his disappointed followers? Rhetoric like that employed by the left’s bloggers, Brokaw, Brazile, and Cohen make that increasingly likely. Some, like Phyllis Chesler here on PJM, have even posited that a new American civil war is a real possibility should Obama lose. To use the Pilate analogy appropriately: do Brokaw, Brazile, Cohen, and the Democratic left really want that blood on their hands?

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Timothy R. Furnish, M.A.R. (Church history), Ph.D. (Islamic history), is a recovering college professor and runs the website www.mahdiwatch.org, which tracks Islamic messianism and eschatology.

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166 Comments

1. David WL:

Excellent all-round analysis, Dr. Furnish.

I would add one thing.

A “community organizer” is supposed to agitate people to think about their well-being, to organize people to work together for better living conditions, higher wages, etc.

To the contrary, based on the evidence we have, Jesus rejected the efforts for “self-improvement.” The birds of the air and the lilies of the field do not worry about their well-being; why should you?

Indeed, if we want to use these categories at all: Jesus was the anti-community-organizer. He was opposed to the very idea of “organizing people,” agitating the community, getting them to “improve their lives.” “Blessed are the meek,” he said, “for they shall inherit the earth.” Are people persecuting you?, Jesus asked. Then don’t fight back. Rather, bless them and love them. One can argue whether or not those ideas are true or make ethical sense. What one cannot argue about is: that has nothing to do with community organizing.

Sep 17, 2008 - 8:27 am 2. deguello:

“Community Organizer”,The pc term for leftist rabblefuhrer and poverty pimp!

Sep 17, 2008 - 8:30 am 3. Scott Somerville:

As a McCain/Palin supporter, I’m praying that the left keeps repeating this silly meme. The more they say it, the more they harden the resolve of the right and alienate the middle.

What this says to me, more than anything else, is that the left REALLY doesn’t understand religion. If they don’t “get” Christianity, which is such a major part of American culture, how are they supposed to “get” Islam? And if they don’t understand how a devout person (say, a Muslim) feels, how are they going to anticipate how devout people (including Muslims) act?

I’m comfortable entrusting our government to a Pentecostal Christian with such a track record of governing from the middle that gays and lesbians are excited about her candidacy. (See http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/many-gays-have-no-problem-with-palin/ ) I think a Christian who can win the trust of gays and lesbians has something going for her. By contrast, secular people who mock Christians are going to have trouble dealing with their own citizenry, much less Iran’s.

Sep 17, 2008 - 8:33 am 4. schnargley:

Why do you right-wingers all continually quibble over words and definitions?

Sep 17, 2008 - 8:42 am 5. Mabel:

True, they misunderstand Jesus’ role. He was accused of being a sorta “community organizer” (instigating political revolt) even though he clearly stated that he was seeking people’s spiritual salvation (his famous quote to give Ceasar’s his due and to God what’s his, meaning he was specifically separating politics from religion).

Sep 17, 2008 - 8:45 am 6. Rand Simberg:

Actually, it was Barabbas who was the community organizer. You know, a freedom fighter, like Bill Ayers. And like Ayers, he got off on a technicality.

Sep 17, 2008 - 8:56 am 7. Pee Wee Herman, Community Organizer:

Mohammed was both community organizer and a governor. How’s a lefty s’posed to parse that?

Sep 17, 2008 - 9:03 am 8. Cletus:

Because that’s what this is all about, shnargley, words and definitions.

Could you learn to read please?

Sep 17, 2008 - 9:04 am 9. Cap'n Rusty:

schnargley:

Because, as Obama famously said “Words have meaning.”

Sep 17, 2008 - 9:04 am 10. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: This….

Jesus was a community organizer; Pilate was a governor. — Democrats

….just goes to show you how ignorant of Christ, Christianity and religion these people REALLY are.

So….

….we want a bunch of ignoramuses running the country?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Ever people get the governance they deserve.]

Sep 17, 2008 - 9:06 am 11. james wilson:

I do not think it is the religious left–which is vapid–that is promoting this sound-bite, but cynical atheists.
Sara Palin is an Alaskan who was elected governor of Alaska. Pontius Pilate was a Roman who was appointed by Rome to rule Israel.
Jesus was no community organizer, but a fisher of men’s souls. He advised men to give to Rome what was Rome’s, not what they were owed by Rome.
The question is, does The One see himself as Pontius Pilate, or Caesar?

Sep 17, 2008 - 9:08 am 12. Tim Furnish:

Pee Wee,
THAT is an EXCELLENT point! Can I steal it for another article?

Sep 17, 2008 - 9:08 am 13. Jamfish:

Yes we do, schnargley. Words mean things. I know… strange concept, huh?

Sep 17, 2008 - 9:10 am 14. Pee Wee Herman, Community Organizer:

Tim, sure.

Sep 17, 2008 - 9:15 am 15. beloml:

schnargley asks, “Why do you right-wingers all continually quibble over words and definitions?”

Because the Obamessiah once said that words matter. And he was right.

Sep 17, 2008 - 9:20 am 16. Dale Block:

When Pilate had to meake a decision, he said ” I wash my hands of this innocent’s slaughter.”

Isn’t that like voting “present” ?

Sep 17, 2008 - 9:20 am 17. beloml:

Pontius Pilate was an educated urban sophisticate. Jesus Christ was a Galilean redneck born in a barn.

Sep 17, 2008 - 9:21 am 18. tomw:

Sep 17, 2008 - 9:27 am 19. nobozons:

Obama is no Jesus Christ, I know Jesus Christ.

Sep 17, 2008 - 9:28 am 20. Concerned Citizen:

Jesus didn’t come here to organize a community, he came here to save people.

Jesus taught people to “turn the other cheek”, “render to Caesar that which is Caesar”, etc. to look at their own heart and develop compassion for others.

This is the opposite of trying to gain political power by organizing a community.

Anyone who has seriously looked inward at their own heart knows it’s about compassion and saving people. He gave his life as an example to everyone else.

What Jesus taught had nothing to do with politics or gaining fame or profit.

Sep 17, 2008 - 9:39 am 21. Sandra M:

Dr. Furnish said: We’ve all heard and read about the deliverer, bordering on messianic, role imputed to Barack Obama by his supporters… whether or not Obama buys into it himself.”

I suspect from his rhetoric that Obama did buy into the Oprah/Eckhart Tolle identification that he was “The One.”

Gerard Baker’s hilarious oped in Britain’s Times Online was read so widely and copied so often that I think it may have shocked Obama out of his megalomania. Hannity turned it into a video and McCain into a political ad starring Charlton Heston parting the Red Sea. We can only wish someone had done that to Hitler.

I still don’t think enough attention has been paid to Oprah’s religious cult, but there’s time.

In the meantime, Obama seems to have dropped all references to the oceans receding or to healing the planet.

Sep 17, 2008 - 9:45 am 22. trangbang68:

Pontius Pilate and Barack Obama share a basic philosophical worldview . In John 18, When Jesus was on trial before Pilate, He stated to Pilate that His mission was to “bear witness unto the Truth”
Pilate’s reply was the same one you would get from Obama and his minions on the politically correct moral relative Left: “What is truth?”
Pilate followed this up by hand wringing and indecision which is exactly what liberals do when in the White House.

Sep 17, 2008 - 9:49 am 23. Dr. Mark:

Thank you, thank you for taking the time to address this topic…how quickly the leftist media pur this on the back burner…

Sep 17, 2008 - 9:53 am 24. deguello:

Hey, Trangbang68 :Spot on! Absolutely spot on!Pilate was an early liberalpost-modernist!

Sep 17, 2008 - 10:00 am 25. schnargley:

OK. Let’s look at this closer…

Jesus had a stepfather. So did Obama.
Jesus walked on water (supposedly.) Obama surfed in Hawaii.
Jesus taught in the Temple when he was 12. Obama taught at U. of Chicago when he was 30.
Jesus blessed the children. Most youth are voting Obama.
Jesus cleansed the Temple of moneychangers. Obama hates capitalism.
Jesus hung around some questionable characters. Ditto.
Jesus cast out the demons. Obama beat and then cast out Hillary.
Jesus was crucified by the Pharisees. Obama was by Palin.

So the Democrat campaign spokesmen were right after all!

Sep 17, 2008 - 10:09 am 26. Calvin Dodge:

tomw:

It’s not just “some columnist” who said this. The idiotic (and false) line has been regurgitated by a Democrat Congressman and Tom Brokaw, among others. That (and the 13000+ repetitions of the line on lefty blogs) should tell you that the Left is expressing agreement with it.

Sep 17, 2008 - 10:09 am 27. jane:

Wonder how offensive it would be if I said Hitler was a community organizer?

Sep 17, 2008 - 10:13 am 28. Dave II:

I’ve long since stop being amazed to what depths the left will go to prop up their empty suit.

This is just one more in a loooong line of ridiculous phrases, assertions, innuendos, or outright lies that fails to pass the smell test.

Thanks, Tim, for putting this one out of it’s writhing misery so eloquently.

Next?

Sep 17, 2008 - 10:13 am 29. CALIndie:

Timothy Furnish – “Liberals are free to disbelieve what orthodox Christianity teaches about Jesus, but they are not free to ahistorically and insultingly appropriate Him for their own narrow political agendas, no more than the religious right is.”

Mr. Furnish, liberals absolutely ARE free to incorrectly appropriate whatever they damn well please. The facts only matter to you and me. Along with the constant hate spewed by liberals their constant lying and distortions are the reason I left the Democrat party.

Now don’t get me wrong, people of all stripes, colors and affiliations are certainly capable of hate, lies and distortions. But it is obvious to me that hate, lies and distortions for political gain and control of power are what the radical left is made of through and through. It is a cancer that has metastized systemically and taken over their neural network.

Author Stephen Covey has an interesting take on this. He calls it “Personality Ethic vs. Character Ethic.” In my opinion no one represents “personality ethic” more than Barack Obama.

Sep 17, 2008 - 10:19 am 30. Javelin:

Yawn, and you take yourself so seriously with your red meat Christianity and pseudo intellectual response to a slogan! Trouble is, the trash talkers on the right, when they are warming up for the next Obama slam, always refer to him as the Messiah. Those are the same people, like Fat Rush, who actually believes Palin is God’s candidate. He said that the critics of Palin are God’s enemies, so Palin must be the next Messiah, according to Lush.

Sep 17, 2008 - 10:28 am 31. Kelly:

Snaggle-Tooth (schnargley) You are an idiot. I looked up the word Idiot and it means: “Mentally retarded person, or foolish person.” Words do have meanings…this one describes you and your empty brain. Or how about “Imbecile” it is another word for Idiot.

Sep 17, 2008 - 10:29 am 32. Paul S.:

“Clever” bumper stickers and T-shirts are what qualify as political thought among the left. They’re all about as profound as Donald Southerland in that dorm room scene from Animal House.

Sep 17, 2008 - 10:34 am 33. Self-hating boomer:

Jane, I already tried that one, but that runs afoul of Godwin’s law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin’s_law

Sep 17, 2008 - 10:54 am 34. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Self-hating boomer
RE: Bad Link

Try THIS….

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Hitlerisms abound!]

Sep 17, 2008 - 11:06 am 35. Chuck Pelto:

P.S. I think the apostrophe threw the link out of kilter.

Sep 17, 2008 - 11:07 am 36. schnargley:

Kelly, I think you are taking my words way too literally.

More analogies needed?..

After being crucified Jesus rose (according to right-wing fundies anyway) on the third day. Obama got crucified by Palin and is currently in his tomb waiting to rise on the third day.

Jesus fed the multitudes with a few loaves and fishes. Obama will feed the world and give free health care to all by raising taxes on the rich.

Sep 17, 2008 - 11:22 am 37. jane:

self-hating boomer – shouldn’t thre be an equal law that addresses playing the race card or accusing someone of being racist?

Sep 17, 2008 - 11:22 am 38. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: Mere Projection, Compounded By ‘Ignorance’(?)

Jesus was crucified by the Pharisees. Obama was by Palin. — schnargley

schnargley is not really ‘very bright’. It’s either that or he’s something much, much worse.

In the first place, the Pharisees did not crucify Christ. It was the Romans.

Furthermore, the Obamanations around here have been doing more ‘crucifying’ of Palin than the other way around.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Prevaricator, n., A liar in the larval form.]

P.S. Some people would call it a ‘worm’. Others, a ‘grub’. Some might even call it a ’slug’. Whatever you call it, it is vile.

Sep 17, 2008 - 11:23 am 39. WR Jonas:

I seem to recall that Judas Iscariot was the real community organizer. He kept the (collective) purse and was actively engaged in secretly enlisting Jesus to support an anti- Roman resistance faction. His activism was tolerated by Jesus because Jesus knew the fulfillment of prophesy required a betrayer.
Judas was admonished for criticizing a woman who used expensive perfumed ointment to bathe his feet. The seed of vengeance was planted as Judas became envious and resentful of his fellow disciples.
I thought the community organizer comparison was inane and foolish.

Sep 17, 2008 - 11:25 am 40. jane:

I was not aware of Godwin’s law so my apologies to the community.

Sep 17, 2008 - 11:28 am 41. Ruby:

As a Black Afro American woman I am disgusted with Obama and the news commentators that claim you are a racist if you do not support him! Here in Chicago he did nothing for us accept to stick his palm out to be greased. We have the worst schools yet he send his children to a private one. He takes huge campign money from the teachers unions. the people he associated with were criminals drug dealers and anti americans. We are not racist but smart discerning voters who know the difference between a trash liar and a honest man. We are voteing for McCain. Just watch the numbers fro Illinois.

Sep 17, 2008 - 11:41 am 42. Chuck Pelto:

TO: jane
RE: No Need to Apologize

I was not aware of Godwin’s law so my apologies to the community. — jane

Fact of the matter is that people use Godwin’s law in order to suppress legitimate ‘compare and contrast’ analysis.

After all, down the hall from here, I’ve mentioned Russia’s recent actions in Georgia as analogous to Hitler in Rhineland or Sudetenland. That’s applicable to Godwin’s Law, but it’s hardly inaccurate.

If someone were to cite Godwin’s Law with me in those threads, vis-a-vis my mentioning ‘Hitler’, I’d cram it down their throat and use my hob-nail boot to drive the point ‘home’.

Hope that helps….

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Confusion, indecision, fear: these are my weapons. -- Adolf Hitler ]

Sep 17, 2008 - 11:50 am 43. Kelly:

Snaggle-Tooth….
Satan-will deceive many
Obama-has deceived many
Satan-is the worlds god
Obama-is the worlds new god
Satan-is a wolf in sheeps clothing
Obama-is a muslim in sheeps clothing
Satan-will trick many with free things
Obama-will trick many with free health care
Satan-is a liar
Obama-is a liar…………………..need I go on?

Sep 17, 2008 - 12:00 pm 44. Self-hating boomer:

Actually Jane, There should be a counterpart to Godwin’s law that frowns upon reductum ad Christum. These Jesus analogies are every bit as hackneyed and dumb as the Hitler analogies.

Sep 17, 2008 - 12:13 pm 45. tomw:

Why is this important to debate? Is it really that important to dismiss Obama’s work as a community organizer? Nobody is claiming Obama is Jesus, so get over it. Jesus organized people from his community. You can call it a lot of things, community organizer being one of them. Would it be this big of a deal if Obama had been a carpenter? Why don’t we do this, get some pictures of McSame wearing a tool belt and hammering some nails, then you can compare him to Jesus too.

Sep 17, 2008 - 12:23 pm 46. Amor:

Another point re Jesus not being a community organizer.
Didn’t he say something to the effect of “render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and render unto God the things that are God’s.”? In other words he was the very opposite of a community organizer, whose main task is to mobilize people to put pressure on the government. I believe he said this under pressure from the Pharisees,who a la the media,were trying to get him to say something that would merit a death penalty.

Sep 17, 2008 - 12:37 pm 47. Jeff:

So the Obama camp wishes to use Jesus’s ministry as a comparison to Obama’s community organizing? Okay, well maybe we could call Jesus a commuity organizer…maybe.

But….Senator Obama. I’ve read about Jesus, studied his Gospels, prayed to him, and even felt him in my heart at times.

Senator, you are no Jesus Christ.

Sep 17, 2008 - 12:43 pm 48. Lar:

Hey I know Jesus Christ I work through Jesus Christ and Senator Obama ” you are no Jesus Christ!”

Sep 17, 2008 - 12:45 pm 49. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: Heh

Nobody is claiming Obama is Jesus, so get over it. — tomw

This guy must have troubles with English as a tertiary language.

Regards,

Chuck(le)

Sep 17, 2008 - 12:49 pm 50. Bluestem:

Schnargley, you forgot one:
Obama is black, Jesus was (need I say it, you guys will freak out).

Kelly, you forgot one:
Satan tempted Jesus with power, Jesus rejected it.
Obama seeks nothing but power.

And the point of calling Jesus a community organizer is to show that he worked at the ground level with real people who need help. Governors don’t often do that.

Sep 17, 2008 - 12:55 pm 51. Ziggy:

Pilare also washed his hands of a moral issue because it was “above his pay-grade”…..

Sep 17, 2008 - 12:58 pm 52. Ziggy:

Obama may not be Jesus but according to San Francisco Chronicle columnist Mark Morford:

“…… Even Bill Clinton, with all his effortless, winking charm, didn’t have what Obama has, which is a sort of powerful luminosity, a unique high-vibration integrity.

……..

Here’s where it gets gooey. Many spiritually advanced people I know (not coweringly religious, mind you, but deeply spiritual) identify Obama as a Lightworker, that rare kind of attuned being who has the ability to lead us not merely to new foreign policies or health care plans or whatnot, but who can actually help usher in a new way of being on the planet, of relating and connecting and engaging with this bizarre earthly experiment. These kinds of people actually help us evolve. They are philosophers and peacemakers of a very high order, and they speak not just to reason or emotion, but to the soul.”

Sep 17, 2008 - 1:05 pm 53. schnargley:

“Yawn, and you take yourself so seriously with your red meat Christianity and pseudo intellectual response to a slogan! Trouble is, the trash talkers on the right, when they are warming up for the next Obama slam, always refer to him as the Messiah.” (Javelin)

Excuse me? It was the Obama campaign that has continually made that comparison, and still does via it’s paid mouthpieces like Rep. Cohen and Tom Brokaw. The right did not just make it up. What are we supposed to do in your mind? Ignore it? Accept it as true? Or is your real objection not just that we criticize it, but to our having fun with it?

Wah. Go whine to your Messiah. Misery loves company.

Sep 17, 2008 - 1:18 pm 54. Kim Zigfeld:

These BASTARDS (MM’s word) have now broken into Sarah’s e-mail box and published her private family photos and the e-mails addresses of her children.

This is what happens to first woman to make a really serious bid for the Oval Office! Outrage!

But the silver lining is that this kind of barbarism is what produces landslides.

Sep 17, 2008 - 1:25 pm 55. Pat:

tomw writes: “This is insanely stupid. Who effing cares if some columnist says Jesus was a community organizer.”

You do. Obviously. You took the time to read the first page of Mr. Furnish’s article all the way to the bottom. Then you clicked the link for page 2 and read all of that. Now you are reading through the comments. This is very odd behavior for someone who pretends to be uninterested in the subject we’re discussing.

Your problem is that you disagree with Mr. Furnish’s message, but even after reading his entire article and all of the comments, you still can’t think of a valid counter-argument. So you have to fall back on the lame and transparent tactic of claiming that the whole thing is unimportant and not worth talking about.

But if you really believed that, you wouldn’t even be here. I guess you’re just as “insanely stupid” as the rest of us.

Sep 17, 2008 - 1:35 pm 56. Pat:

tomw writes: “Why is this important to debate?”

Ask yourself that question. YOU are debating it.

“Is it really that important to dismiss Obama’s work as a community organizer?”

Is it really that important to DEFEND Obama’s work as a community organizer?

Sep 17, 2008 - 1:37 pm 57. Pontius Palin and Messiah Obama:

[...] Read the rest of this great post here [...]

Sep 17, 2008 - 2:31 pm 58. Mary in LA:

Hi, Ruby! I’m so glad you said that. I hope you’ll comment more!

Sep 17, 2008 - 2:35 pm 59. tomw:

Pat:
The reason I come here is because I’m trying to understand how the right thinks. This election is still 50/50 right now and I can’t understand how half the country still wants McCain, so I stop by to see what you all are talking about (and perhaps talk some sense into you).

“Jesus wasn’t a community organizer – The dims are lying!!!! ”

Of course he was. Don’t go trying to stress out over the definition of community organizer vs anti-community organizer (LOL, that’s really funny), or does 12 apostles = a community and in what proximity did the live. Really??? He got people together to try and make their world a better place. That’s community. That’s organizing. Get over it.

Now, why is it a problem to admit Jesus was a community organizer of sorts?

Pat, I’m not defending, I’m curious why this topic is so important. What’s the big deal? Is it because you think this somehow compares Obama to Jesus?

Sep 17, 2008 - 3:13 pm 60. rosie:

Christs’ message was individual salvation. Community organizing deals with collective grievance. One deals with our souls and eternal life the other with the material world. Christ ministered to how the individual should behave not how the individual should be treated. Jesus wasn’t trying to make the world a better place – he was saving souls.

Sep 17, 2008 - 4:06 pm 61. Mister Snitch!:

If Jesus was a community organizer, he was lousy at it: His ‘organization’ either sold him out (Judas) or denied even knowing him (Peter). When he needed support most, the crowds who had heard his moving speeches abandoned him.

Hmm. Considering that last observation, there IS a case to be made for comparing Obama to Jesus.

Sep 17, 2008 - 4:11 pm 62. iowahawk:

Other noted community organizers:

Robespierre
Nathan Bedford Forrest
John Wilkes Booth
Adolf Hitler
Pol Pot

Sep 17, 2008 - 4:11 pm 63. Pee Wee Herman, Community Organizer:

OMG ponies!!!!11 I know this is a reductum ad Hitlerum, but this may be the funniest video of the campaign season yet:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4mKWceq0vY

Sep 17, 2008 - 4:15 pm 64. Brian H:

tomw:

This is insanely stupid. Who effing cares if some columnist says Jesus was a community organizer. Is this really what people want to talk about? Focus people, there are issues out there worth discussing, and this isn’t one of them.
Sep 17, 2008 – 9:27 am//
======
tomw — not only do words matter, so do slogans and images and analogies. This is politics, which means manipulation of public opinion. And it matters if, as the article asks, enough American voters are stupid enough to buy into this bogus equation.

Actually, the first comment in the thread by David WL nails it: Jesus was the very reverse of a political agitator/community organizer, though that’s clearly what the radical Jewish opposition to Rome wanted him to be, and what the Romans feared he was.

Sep 17, 2008 - 4:19 pm 65. rachelrachel:

Why the quotes around “Bishop” when referring to the Right Reverend John Shelby Spong? Aren’t Espicopalians real bishops?

Sep 17, 2008 - 4:26 pm 66. Gus M:

Just want to make a small correction. The author states, “(Of course, they can’t exactly call her “the governor of a state as large in land area as all the blue states of 2004 combined.”)”

This is not true. Alaska has a land area of 663,267 square miles. The total land area of the 20 states+DC that Kerry won in 2004 is 847,633 square miles.

Another interesting stat, the 20 states+DC that Kerry won comprise 22% of the total land area of the US.

Sep 17, 2008 - 4:35 pm 67. Anthony:

Jane —

As Jim Treacher has (tounge in cheek) pointed out — “Hitler was a community organizer, FDR was a governor.”

Sep 17, 2008 - 4:36 pm 68. koblog:

Me thinks schnargley is having fun amongst his friends….

Don’t be too hard on him/her.

Sep 17, 2008 - 4:37 pm 69. Gus M:

To clarify my previous comment. I said “land area”. What I meant was “total area” (land area + water area).

Sep 17, 2008 - 4:40 pm 70. koblog:

By the way, Mr. Furnish, this article debunking this demonstrably false comparison is long overdue.

The left’s repeating this until it’s now written into the Congressional Record is beyond belief.

The left praising Jesus by reflecting Obama’s glory onto Him? Ummm, right.

Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.

Sep 17, 2008 - 4:42 pm 71. nick:

I think a Jesuit priest understands religion and Theology better than you, who drool over state executions and wars of agression that the catholic leader said was “a Defeat for Humanity”

Sep 17, 2008 - 4:45 pm 72. anonymous:

«The Lisbon Treaty and Eurabia paedophilia»

http://sioe.wordpress.com/2008/09/16/eu-paedophilia/

Sep 17, 2008 - 4:45 pm 73. algie:

With apologies to Oliver Wendell Holmes for the misquote.

Liberalism has many tools, but a lie is the handle that fits them all.

Sep 17, 2008 - 4:45 pm 74. Letalis Maximus, Esq.:

And the Lord Jesus might have said unto them, he who hath no AK-47, let him sell his leather jacket and buy one.

-Paraphrasing Luke 22:36.

Sep 17, 2008 - 4:47 pm 75. algie:

Of course the misquote is not that far off to conservatives, Holmes original saying was about Sin not liberalism.

Sep 17, 2008 - 4:48 pm 76. Tim Furnish:

rachelrachel,
Re Spong: because any “bishop” who denies one of the main articles of the Creeds–that Jesus rose from the dead–is not really a Christian bishop, no matter what title he holds.
Gus M,
Alaska is 665,424 square miles. The Kerry states in 2004 are in toto about 841K sq. miles in land area. I apologize. When I added them up, I must have left out some. What I should have said was “the governor of a state three-quarters as large in land area as all the Blue States of 2004 combined.”

Sep 17, 2008 - 4:49 pm 77. k:

Of all the remarks made about this article, the one that made me laugh out loud was this:

schnargley:

Why do you right-wingers all continually quibble over words and definitions?

Because, schargley, words have power and meaning. It is with words, more often than actions, that are used to insult and mislead people. I can’t believe that someone has to explain this to a grow person. Oh, wait, your a democrat, of course we have to explain this to you. Most democrats throw out words without any intention of owning what they say. They always claim to have been misquoted, misunderstood, taken out of context, or they miss spoke (lied) when they are called on some inane or hateful rhetoric they spewed.

Goes to show how negligent the democrats really tend to be. Spill out rubbish, deny responsibility.

Christ was a holy man, Obama isn’t, and to draw a comparison between them is scandalous and insulting to all Christians. As a supposed Christian Obama should know that and should have refuted that comment immediately. He didn’t, and to me that means he believes it himself. As several posters have mentioned, if someone had drawn a comparison between Muhammad and Obama, there would be riots in the streets of every country with Muslims in the population. No doubt Obama thinks he is holier than anyone. The only thing holy about Obama is his complete lack of ethics those are full of holes.

It is laughable to draw a comparison between Palin and Pilot . . . good grief how juvenile can the press and other who kowtow to Obama get?

Another woman who is voting for McCain/Palin. Laughing all the way to the voting booth.

Sep 17, 2008 - 4:51 pm 78. Javelin:

Chuck Pelto:
Nice to see you representing the cracker Christians so well.
I don’t want some small town rube whose church teaches that Alaska is going to be a refuge after the next nuclear holocaust, a chuch that encourages people to badger Jews to become redneck Jesus babbelers like you or one that condemns homosexuals as sinners(oh, it’s only the act, I’m sorry!). So let’s talk about religion. Especially hate filled self righteous self proclaimed Christians who go into politics to promote Pentecostal, speaking in toungues, nonsense.

Sep 17, 2008 - 4:55 pm 79. Javelin:

Gus M
The metopolitan Albany NY area has more people than Alaska. So don’t bore us with your meaningless land area stats,

Sep 17, 2008 - 4:57 pm 80. PETE:

Wow. Only like, six or seven comparisons of Obama to Hitler, and at least one comparing him to Satan. Nice.

Sep 17, 2008 - 5:02 pm 81. PETE:

Wow. Just wow. Thanks for the most entertaining read I’ve had in a long time. I think my favorite part is this: “It’s pathetic, really, that this has to be explained to historically ignorant Democrats, but Sarah Palin was elected to her office, not appointed by an emperor — and no amount of jejune Bush-bashing will change that.”

Oh! She was ELECTED? Oh my God I had NO idea! Thank you! I was so busy Bashing Bush that I hadn’t noticed!

Us liberals really thought we had Palin pinned to the wall with that snarky, off-handed comment about Jesus and Pilate! Now I don’t know what we’ll do!

Maybe concentrating on the issues will work.

Sep 17, 2008 - 5:13 pm 82. more on Jesus as a “community organizer” « Interstitial:

[...] on Jesus as a “community organizer” Posted on September 17, 2008 by bkingr the definitive takedown of the latest blasphemous trope to invade civilized discourse. Please go read the whole [...]

Sep 17, 2008 - 5:34 pm 83. JamesW:

As Anthony noted, Jim Teacher said ‘Hitler was a community organizer, FDR was a governor.”

I put it less wittily with “Lucky Luciano was a community organizer, Tom Dewey was a governor!”

Sep 17, 2008 - 5:35 pm 84. Pilate voted “Present” « Bryan’s Basement:

[...] September 18, 2008 by bcostin The Obama campaign has been astroturfing the “Pilate was a Governor, Jesus was a community organizer” line for a couple weeks now. I’m not a Biblical scholar, but 12 years in a Christan school left me with enough residual knowledge to know that it was historically nonsensical, as well as just plain dumb. Here’s a great article that explains why: Pajamas Media » Pontius Palin and Messiah Obama [...]

Sep 17, 2008 - 5:36 pm 85. deguello:

Letalis: Love the handle,agree with sentiment.If the Stalinist oabamination gets elected,AK47’s will help patriots re enact the Revolution.It will be the Kentucky long rifle of the 21st century.

Sep 17, 2008 - 5:38 pm 86. NickO:

Mr. Furnish,

Excellent article. Another important error in the simile is that Pilate most likely did not have any discretion in the matter.

Paul Maier, one of the most distinguished professor of Biblical history of that period, wrote an extensively researched and meticulously documented historical novel based on the life of Pilate and his role in the crucifixion. He points out that Pilate was under orders from Tiberias to give the Sanhedrin just about anything they wanted.

Pilate was under a huge cloud of suspicion because of his close ties to Sejanus, Tiberias’ former second-in-command. Sejanus got Pilate appointed to the position in Judaea, but was also virulently anti-semitic. When Tiberias had Sejanus and his close allies slaughtered for treason, he also attempted to calm down the Jews’ fear and restlesness by giving them considerable freedoms that Sejanus (through Pilate) had denied them.

So when the local religious leaders said “whoever makes himself a king is an enemy of Ceasar,” Pilate knew very well that the religious rulers would take their complaints to Tiberias, and Pilate – and his family – might very well have been slaughtered as an ally of Sejanus.

So no, Pilate didn’t vote “present”. He was under orders from the emperor and had a lot to lose by disobeying those orders. Compared to that, The Obambi has never faced a tough decision in his life.

BTW, there are credible legends that that Pilate converted to Christianity late in life.

Get the book – http://www.amazon.com/Pontius-Pilate-Paul-L-Maier/dp/0825432960

Nick

Sep 17, 2008 - 5:40 pm 87. Kelly:

Bluestem….Perfect…Thank you.

Sep 17, 2008 - 5:55 pm 88. John:

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this already, but one I heard recently in rejoinder was, “FDR was a governor, Hitler was a community organizer.”

Sep 17, 2008 - 6:12 pm 89. comatus:

Like most recent Dem provocations, they’re sowing the wind. They can probably get Palin to stand up in front of 10,000 people and Say The Line:

“I know Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ is a friend of mine and Senator, you are no Jesus Christ.”

As Connery asked, how do you think they’ll feel then–better? Or worse?

Sep 17, 2008 - 6:18 pm 90. Locomotive Breath:

Jesus never tried to use his position as a “community organizer” in an attempt to become Emperor of Rome.

Sep 17, 2008 - 6:20 pm 91. Pee Wee Herman, Community Organizer:

Wow. Only like, six or seven comparisons of Obama to Hitler, and at least one comparing him to Satan. Nice.

And comparing him to Jesus isn’t equally over-the-top? That is what started this controversy, if you recall.

Sep 17, 2008 - 6:29 pm 92. AST:

Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world.” As far as I can see no politician ever born can say that. Jesus sent his disciples out to preach without purse or scrip. Jeremiah Wright retired to a $10 million house on a golf course.

Nobody in power in Judea back then was elected, not the governor nor Herod nor the High Priest or the Sanhedrin. Jesus didn’t seek office.

That is why there is a separation between church and state.

Sep 17, 2008 - 7:03 pm 93. Old Seabee:

The third part of the trope should read, “and Herod voted’present.’”

Sep 17, 2008 - 8:15 pm 94. Nuking the “…was a community organizer” nonsense:

[...] Timothy Furnish does it with the facts. Jim Treacher goes directly for the [...]

Sep 17, 2008 - 8:21 pm 95. Hoth:

Pilate voted present. Who else do we all know who has a proclivity for voting present?

Sep 17, 2008 - 8:29 pm 96. Sari Buida:

HUH? you laughing? hahaha… i am netral. I am not American!

Sep 17, 2008 - 8:38 pm 97. narciso:

When one considers how stupid and insensitive that meme, is, one is driven to contempt of the utterer of that phrase. One, Pilate was not elected, he was appointed he was like those German Abwehr officials in Vichy France, or to use a more contemporary example Bull Connor of the Birmingham Public Safety Commission. He was
a callous figure, that would use any means to suppress an insurrection; which he had let happen. From using the Temple treasury to fund
the Aqueduct; to surrendering to the mob’s hatred of Jesus, to killing the Samaritans, which prompted his recall and subsequent death.
That’s in Josephus’s Antiquities, by the way, not in the Bible. Where Mr. Meir got his facts I won’t even venture to consider.

Sep 17, 2008 - 8:50 pm 98. Keith Marriott:

My take on the whole thing.

When Sarah Palin pronounced as being the Republican choice for VP, a joke started shortly after her acceptance speech about the differences between a community organizer and a Governor. The noise made and the explanation did not go far enough, as far as I am concerned, simply because most of the noise came from Liberals attempting to show righteous indignation toward Sarah Palin and her being selected. What it really showed was a lack of concern for Christian values by Liberals in general and their serious disregard for Christians, conservative or liberal and I would like to explain my position as far as this one point out of the many.
The so-called joke went something like this; “ . . . Jesus was a community organizer and Pilate was a Governor.” To me the comparison is a slap in the face and turning the other cheek has gotten it slapped over and over again.
Let me set the record straight, because this can be taken several ways and none are correct and as a Christian, saved by the blood of Jesus, I have to make a stand.
1. Obama is ordained by God, Palin is appointed by man. (sacrilegious statement at best.)
2. A very sick joke. (VERY!!! Still enough to make devout Christians cringe.)
3. Very poor analogy that plays on name value rather than what the individuals stood for then and now.
Community Organizer:
 These are people that get groups of individuals together to support their pet projects for changing perception, financial standing or moral values within a community. (My definition.)
 Community organizing is a process by which people living in proximity to each other, are brought together to act in their common self-interest. Community organizers act as area-wide coordinators of programs for different agencies in an attempt to meet community needs for various services. Community organizers work actively, as do other types of social workers, in community councils of social agencies and in community-action groups. At times the role of community organizers overlaps that of the social planners. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_organizing

Governor: (First two are mine.)
 Old World; Appointed to do the will of the ruler, king, or emperor.
 New World: Elected by the will of the people to do what is in the best interest of the people, not for career building.
 A governor is a governing official, usually the executive (at least nominally, to different degrees also politically and administratively) of a non-sovereign level of government, ranking under the Head of state. In federations, a governor may be the title of each appointed or elected politician who governs a constitutive state. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Governor

To be scripturally correct let me guide you through a brief look at both of these individuals as they are described in the political bantering.

Jesus – Individual Salvation Giver. Most of the Jews of the time where not looking for personal salvation but for someone to kick the Romans out of their land. They were looking for a community organizer and got Jesus, the source of personal salvation. Jesus never preached, taught or implied anything about changing the government, but changing individuals. When sufficient change would take place, the rest may or may not come to change the communities we live or they lived in.

Pilate – Old World Governor. Appointed by Caesar to do what Caesar wanted and was good for Rome, without consideration for the rights of anyone. Pilate knew that the death of Jesus was wrong. That is why he washed his hands of the problem. He wanted to be ‘politically correct”.

Let me share a short list of Community Organizer and Governors that fit the appropriate definitions and personalities of the individuals involved.

Community Organizers
Genghis Kahn * They all started small, with big ideas, that ended with dead people.
Attila the Hun *
Adolph Hitler *
Mussolini *
Stalin *
Marx *
Vladimir Lenin *
Chairman Mao *
Obama Hopefully the jury of historical facts will never have to decide on this CO.
Meger Evers *
Jim Jones *
David Koresh *
Charles Manson *
Governors
FDR – Had some good ideas till politicians got involved.
Reagan – Did all the Right things
Clinton – Always Politically Correct.
Carter – 50/50 most of the time
Johnson – Right ideas, wrong reasons.
Rockefeller – Just plain wrong
Bush – 50/50 mostly right for the right reasons.
Schwarzenegger – Good heart, means well
Pilate – Afraid not to be Politically Correct.
Sarah Palin – Not concerned about Politically Correct, just wants to do what right by the people that put her in office.
Mario Cuomo – “If you can manipulate news, a judge can manipulate the law.”
Dixie Lee Ray – “The reality is that zero defects in products plus zero pollution plus zero risk on the job is equivalent to maximum growth of government plus zero economic growth plus runaway inflation”
Ann Richards – “I’m really glad that your young people missed the Depression and missed the big war. But I do regret that they missed the leaders that I knew, leaders who told us when things were tough and that we’d have to sacrifice, and that these difficulties might last awhile. They brought us together and they gave us a sense of national purpose.”

You know, after putting this whole thing together there is something else that has come to mind. Why are the Liberals comparing their Presidential candidate to the Conservative Vice Presidential candidate? Could it be because they see Sarah Palin as the only weak link? OR, is she that much of a threat to their victory?

I like the quote of Mario Cuomo, “If you can manipulate news, a judge can manipulate the law.” Our media is being manipulated and our judges are making laws. It is time to stop the Bleeding Heart Liberals and the Death they bring (Spirit, Moral Values, Trust, Financial Stability, Peace of Mind). It is Time for Christians to stand up and be counted with a Bible in your hand and scripture on your tongue.

Sep 17, 2008 - 8:53 pm 99. john from cinncinati:

false prophets anyone?

Sep 17, 2008 - 9:09 pm 100. proud elitist:

What’s more hysterical? The immediate quoting of Limbaugh (Oxycontin and Dominican Republic-style Viagra) or the right actually stating that the left has religion?

Oh my, what fly-over country boredom has wrought.

The US is in a financial crisis and the pro-McCain/Palin crowd blathers about Pilate, Jesus, and Obama…

Barracuda won’t cooperate with Troopergate anymore and excuse #420 as to why Monegan was fired involves his attempts to circumvent her and solicit money for programs to stop violence (women/childrn) in Alaska.

McCain voted for the bill that deregulated the shadow financial industries while telling you that the economy has strong foundations. (unless he’s flipflopped again).

If you are so against Obama, why christen him with the name Obamessiah, anyway?

Why not cloak yourselves in the glory of Sarah, move to Alaska, get raped, shoot a moose, drill something, ride a snowmobile and wait for the Rapture to come?

It’s the least you could do for God and your Country.

Sep 17, 2008 - 10:11 pm 101. gus3:

This not-so-old canard again?

Pontius Pilate was a puppet of the first Fascists.

Jesus Christ was a maverick in that he insisted the whole Law be obeyed. And the lawyers made sure He was executed for it.

Sep 17, 2008 - 10:21 pm 102. gus3:

@proud elitist:

Your slam against Alaska will only backfire on you.

You say “Alaska has the highest domestic violence rate against women and children,” but when Palin actually tries to get rid of a psychopathic cop who threatened his father-in-law and TASERED HIS OWN UNDERAGE SON, you call for a federal investigation.

Hypocrite. You can’t have it both ways.

Sep 17, 2008 - 10:24 pm 103. tomw:

gus, the investigation into the firing of the alaskan state trooper was started well before she was the VP candidate. I agree with you, it seems pretty cut and clear the guy was unstable. But why is Palin refusing to cooperate with the investigation? If she’s done nothing wrong, she has nothing to hide, right?

Sep 17, 2008 - 10:45 pm 104. Nunya:

I can’t understand how half the country still wants McCain

Funny, I still can’t understand how the other half (that much?) wants Obama.

In the interest of debating the actual issues and getting off this Jesus/Pilate theme, why don’t you Democrats enlighten us on why you are voting for Obama? I still haven’t heard a single valid reason why any of you are voting FOR him; only lies about why not to vote for the opposition.

Sep 17, 2008 - 11:08 pm 105. Chuck Pelto:

TO: algie
RE: Not a Misquote….

Liberalism has many tools, but a lie is the handle that fits them all. — Oliver Wendell Holmes (updated & paraphrased)

Thanks. I’m going to keep that one.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Sin has many tools, but a lie is the handle that fits them all. -- Oliver Wendell Holmes]

Sep 18, 2008 - 1:25 am 106. Chuck Pelto:

TO: gus3
RE: Oh Yes He CAN!

Hypocrite. You can’t have it both ways. — gus3 to proud elitist

He’s a hypocrite. And hypocrites don’t have any rules, honor, integrity, truth or God.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Where there is no religion, hypocrisy becomes good taste.]

Sep 18, 2008 - 1:30 am 107. Chuck Pelto:

TO: tomw
RE: [OT] Why Stop It?

But why is Palin refusing to cooperate with the investigation? If she’s done nothing wrong, she has nothing to hide, right? — tomw

Because the Alaskan Attorney General has REAL crimes to deal with. All your dweeb is doing is a fishing expedition. And one for political purposes only. It’s the same as a judge throwing out a frivolous case. And it’s perfectly within the AG’s prerogative to do so.

Maybe if he had REAL evidence of wrongdoing the Alaskan AG will look into it.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[We all have truths. Are mine the same as yours? -- Pilot]

Sep 18, 2008 - 1:36 am 108. Randy Paul:

How about this, then: Martin Luther King, Jr. was a community organizer, Lester Maddox and George Wallace were governors.

Sep 18, 2008 - 5:21 am 109. Jesus was a torture victim; Caiaphas was a law professor — Cranach: The Blog of Veith:

[...] is a great phrase from a demolition of the “Jesus was a community organizer; Pilate was a governor” [...]

Sep 18, 2008 - 5:22 am 110. stencilv:

Furnish,

This is silliness, and you surely know it.

You seem to make two arguments. One is: “liberals are using
an argument they shouldn’t”.

But religion is a subject oft exploited by conservatives. In part,
the liberal point is to comment on this exploitation. Surely
this is clear. Or are you just dense?

Your second argument is: “Jesus wasn’t a community organizer
according to the wikipedia definition”. This is even sillier. The
point is that he was not a mayor, not a governor — he had no position of power
in society. He had no “actual responsibilities”, in Palin’s tired tag-line
phrase.

Sep 18, 2008 - 5:47 am 111. Tim Furnish:

Stencilv,
Greeting to you, too, Mr. V. Nice to see you’re keeping up that well-deserved Leftist reputation for boorishness.
I of course know, and acknowledge in the article, that our side sometimes does this. My points in this regard, clearly made are that 1) WHEN conservatives do so, they are always called on it; and 2) the Left–both political and religious–has no more right to do so than does the Right. So who’s dense?
As for your points about “community organizer:” I only used Wiki because I know it’s very familiar to liberals as a source base. And I’m curious as to how you know what was the intended point of Donna Brazile, Congressman Cohen and Tom Brokaw, not to mention the other epigones parroting the phrase over the last two weeks? As many on here has pointed out, “words mean things” and, dense Ph.D. that I am, I have this habit of taking what people say–even Dems–at face value. So when they throw out the phrase “Jesus was a community organizer, Pilate was a governor” I just take’s’em as I sees’em–which is that folks using those comparisons are 1) equating BHO’s experience, in some degree, with Jesus’ and 2) equating Palin’s experience with Pontius Pilate’s. I’m just too dense to pull out a volume of Foucault or Derrida (which I use for door stops and for propping up the cat litter box) and deconstruct those tropes. We conservatives are funny like that.
.: The actual silliness lies in those who originated, and ran with (and continue to run with) this vacuous and offensive phrase. My pointing it out is not really all that silly.

Sep 18, 2008 - 6:33 am 112. Keith Johnsen:

Dear Conservatives,
Two words: Waa-aah! Who knew warmongers and God’s children would suddenly feel so, so pious and offended? Stand up, take it, and move on with your zero programs that help people. And to quote samefacts, MLK was a community organizer, George Wallace was a Governor.
Ya bunch of losers
Keith

Sep 18, 2008 - 7:04 am 113. Tim Furnish:

And, Mr. (or Ms?) V, I might add: while the political and religious Right does sometimes exploit religious themes, I can think of no examples where any conservative has ever dared to compare one of our own to Jesus. Can you? I’m willing to be corrected on this issue. As I said, IF a conservative version of this trope were wheeled out, it would be something like “Jesus [McCain] was a torture victim, Caiaphas [Obama] was a lawyer.” AND of course IF that were launched into the public square, Republians would be (can’t resist) crucified.
But such doesn’t happen on the right, at least not in the normal course of events.

Sep 18, 2008 - 7:06 am 114. proud elitist:

Whether Wooten tasered his son is not what Troopergate is about. Or his alleged spousal abuse. Troopergate is about firing this guy named Monegan. Then agreeing to cooperate with a probe that the AK bipartisan legislature voted for, then not once she was VP. And you may want to do a wee bit of reading regarding the AK AG and his conflict of interest with the matter.

Executive experience via executive privilge – Palin owns it. Oh, but McCain did help make sure his wife didn’t get in trouble with the DEA for stealing drugs from her charities.

I know y’all don’t like to read anything that is non-Drudge, non-Townhall, and non-group of people that don’t like to get dressed and stay in their PJs. I know you worship at the alter of Limbaugh, Beck (not the cool musician), Hannity and the sexual harrasser O’Reilly.

I mean, when’s the last time you heard of conservative bloggers debating themselves over their own media reporting as you hear in the left blogosphere?

I guess if you are attempting to thumb law for your family member – acceptable. Too bad Sarah doesn’t have enough honor, just like her running mate, to own up to her executive decision to fire Monegan.

Not Wooten – who even the courts said the Palin family behavior was deplorable during the divorce proceedings.

You take your fake rapture-lady, your out-of-touch POW and glory and bask in it.

I have Palin emails to read from her yahoo account and basking in the polls of +Obama.

Sep 18, 2008 - 7:38 am 115. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Keith Johnson
RE: No Programs to Help People

Stand up, take it, and move on with your zero programs that help people. — Keith Johnson

Tell us, Keith….

….how many tons of medical supplies did YOU send to Rwanda after the massacre? How many doctors? Nurses? Tents? Cots? Food?

Pat Robertson organized a MASSIVE relief effort from amongst US christians and conservatives. And that was despite the fact that your darl’n Clinton did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[We're talking REALLY stupid people with this one.]

Sep 18, 2008 - 7:54 am 116. Agoraphobic Plumber:

“This is insanely stupid. Who effing cares if some columnist says Jesus was a community organizer. Is this really what people want to talk about? Focus people, there are issues out there worth discussing, and this isn’t one of them.”

I would agree, except that now it seems to be what Democrats are talking about it on CNN and even on the floor of the house. Doesn’t that make it worthy of dicussion?

Sep 18, 2008 - 8:04 am 117. jeff Dorfman:

Dr. Furnish seems to make a great deal of hay that a community organizer by (Wikipedia’s) definition of a community organizer as someone who organizes “people living in close proximity to each other.” Unfortunately, this is a narrow definition of a community. Is there a Jewish community? an Italian-American community? Perhaps a better definition of community is in order.

As for Jesus as a community organizer, this term is often applied to one who is an activist for what s/he believes is right on behalf of a community or the community at large. Did Jesus not overturn the tables of the moneychangers? Could this not reasonably be construed as community activism (in its most positive sense, perhaps) on behalf of those who were constantly being cheated by the moneychangers? I am Jewish. However, were I to believe that Jesus was the Son of God, I don’t think it would be a very large stretch to consider community activism (in its best sense) as a way of walking before the Lord in the land of the (imperfect) living (Ps 117) in the small, imperfect way that we humans sometimes strive to. Is there nothing Godly in striving for justice and righteousness? Is Jesus not an inspiration for that?

By no means do I try to ascribe these characteristics to Mr. Obama. I just wish to point out that which I find disagreeable about Dr. Furman’s thesis here. The point of the analogy is not to imply that Mr. Obama is God-like or to make Mrs. Palin into an ogre. It is not to belittle Jesus. It is just to point out that being a community activist can be a noble, Godly calling, regardless of what Rudy Giuliani may think or say.

Sep 18, 2008 - 8:29 am 118. Tim Furnish:

Mr. Dorfman,
I’m not sure who “Dr. Furman” is, but I’ll answer for him.
I would agree with you that had trope been simple “Jesus was a community organizer,” it would not have been as offensive; but you cannot convince me that following it with a reference to the man who ordered his death was anything BUT an attempt just exactly to turn Palin to an “ogre,” or worse–and, by extension, to glorify BHO.
And I have to ask: do you have a relative named Kent?

Sep 18, 2008 - 8:45 am 119. Chuck Pelto:

TO: jeff Dorfman
RE: Yeah….But…

It is not to belittle Jesus. It is just to point out that being a community activist can be a noble, Godly calling, regardless of what Rudy Giuliani may think or say. — jeff Dorfman

….then you have ‘community organizers’ like Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton and Louis Farrakhan and General Nathan Bedford Forrest and the ~~good~~ Reverend Phelps.

Being a ‘community organizer’ is not necessarily a ‘good’ thing. And, in many cases, success can go to their head and destroy their moral judgement (see the names I mentioned above). In other words, it does not always make one godly.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[When pride cometh, then cometh shame: but with the lowly is wisdom. -- Proverbs]

Sep 18, 2008 - 8:51 am 120. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Keith Johnson
RE: No Programs to Help People — Part II

Stand up, take it, and move on with your zero programs that help people. — Keith Johnson

Then we have the other side of this proverbial coin.

Biden gave average of $369 to charity a year — No Silence Here

I’d heard reports, over the years that Christians and Conservatives are more giving on a personal level. Here’s proof of that.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out. And the so-called 'Progressives' will hate it.]

Sep 18, 2008 - 9:18 am 121. Javelin:

Chuck(le)
[Where there is no religion, hypocrisy becomes good taste.]
So is your hypocrisy and mean mindedness in bad taste?

Sep 18, 2008 - 9:23 am 122. tomw:

TO: nunya
RE: here’s why I’m voting for Obama:

Taxes: You have to step back and look at both parties and ask yourself who each party represents. Republicans used to be (80’s) middle and upper class and business. Today, they exclusively represent the interest of only the wealthiest Americans and big business. Our government is looking at a $500 Billion deficit (was 400 something, but I’m adding the AIG bailout $). Both candidates have proposed a tax plan to tackle this:
-Obama: Gives tax relief to lower and middle class, rescinds the Bush tax breaks which will hit the wealthiest ($250K+) pretty hard.
-McCain: Almost no tax relief to lower and middle classes and huge tax breaks to wealthiest americans and businesses. (the ones that need the money the most).

Bottom line, trickle down economics isn’t working.

Economic Crisis: He understands the problem and what needs to be done to fix it. McCain thinks our economy is fundamentally sound, will look into the matter via congressional inquiry (LOL).

Foreign Policy: Obama understands that diplomacy is what is needed. I don’t get how refusing to open dialog with leaders of hostile nations helps the situation. If you’re talking, you’re not fighting. War should be the last possible option.

Look, I like John McCain, I think he’ll go down as a great American no matter which way this election goes. But what I liked most about him was his ability to stand up to his own party. He was known for breaking ranks with his party lines to do what he thought was right. Today? Now he’s OK with waterboarding torture. He’s changed his mind on off shore drilling. He used to oppose Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy, but he reversed course in February. The list goes on. Obviously the man knew to get the nomination he would have to toe the party lines, but at what point does it become a complete sham?

Sep 18, 2008 - 9:37 am 123. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Javelin
RE: My Hypocrisy?

So is your hypocrisy and mean mindedness in bad taste? — Javelin

Show me.

But remember…

….I’ve evidence of your hateful nature over on another thread where you’re projecting civil war and murder. Then let’s see who people believe.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Hatred is the cowards revenge for being intimidated.]

Sep 18, 2008 - 9:41 am 124. BMoon:

Pontius Pilate, like Obama, was also a failed “reformer.” Previous to the incidents in Jerusalem that fateful year, along with some other cohorts, he had joined a conspiracy to overthrow Caesar’s regime. The conspiracy was uncovered by a loyalist, and the leaders were hacked to pieces and dumped in various garbage pits around the Empire. Pilate was not executed but his ass was grass. This was the meaning behind the clever statement by the Jewish elitists at Jesus’ trial, “We have no King but Caesar!” implying that if he did not execute this “traitor,” they would report Pilate to higher authorities as coddling anti-Caesar elements.

Pilate was not the evil ogre he is sometimes caricaturized as. He was simply a consumate politician, always angling for his personal benefit, eager for power, trying to play both sides, not mean but just lacking in moral clarity.

Sep 18, 2008 - 9:48 am 125. Chuck Pelto:

P.S. And, if you look at it from the ‘progressive’, i.e., atheist, perspective, I guess you’re right….

….my religious beliefs ARE “in bad taste”.

Sep 18, 2008 - 9:49 am 126. Tim Furnish:

BMoon,
AND Pilate was made a saint in the Ethiopian Church!

Sep 18, 2008 - 10:11 am 127. Dodgeblogium » Pontious Palin & Obama Messiah:

[...] official who sentenced him to death, the Democrats are not just raising the insult bar… read more | digg [...]

Sep 18, 2008 - 10:25 am 128. tomw:

BMoon: Check it, McCain and Palin are now reformers too, didn’t you see the RNC speeches?

I stand by my original suggestion: Have McSame take some photos wearing a tool belt and swinging a hammer, then call him a carpenter and you can compare him to Jesus too.

Sep 18, 2008 - 10:48 am 129. Rose, New York:

I think Obama has a messiah complex.

Sep 18, 2008 - 10:49 am 130. KDawg:

Maybe Obama is the Anti-Christ?

Sep 18, 2008 - 11:25 am 131. Brian Richard Allen:

I know Jesus Christ, the Prince of Peace — and the America-loathing mobbed-up Marxist murtadd Muslim Arab-African Stalinist-Saul-Alinsky B Milhous bin B Hussayn bin Hussayn Muhummud Ubama ain’t even on the same team!

And I also know a heap about a passel of history’s actual community organizers, not just the most influential of the execrable B Milhous’s Marxist mentors: Frank Marshall Davis, Calypso Louis Farrakhan, the “reverend” Wright and Saul Alinsky.

Prominent among those whose names most easily spring to mind?

How about Adolf Hitler? Very well remembered Community Organizer.

As was his fellow “informed and refined” socialist, Mussolini. And were such of his own and his mentors’ more fundmentalist socialist influences: Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Tojo, Trotsky, Mao, Ho Chi Mhin, Pol Pot, Castro et al.

Now Obama and his thuggish team definitely bring all of that gang to mind and have in common with the self-styled mobbed-up Marxist murtadd Muslim modern messiah that — being collectively very well acquainted with lying, looting, thieving, mass-murdering and serial sexual predatism — notwithstanding every one might well have become the “Democratic” nominee — not one of them ever became President of the United States of America.

Either.

Brian Richard Allen
Los Angeles – Califobamacated 90028

Sep 18, 2008 - 12:03 pm 132. BMoon:

tomw, “heck it, McCain and Palin are now reformers too, didn’t you see the RNC speeches?”
McCain and Palin have the credentials too, as opposed to the the the wannabe who is simply nothing more or less than “the consumate politician.”

Sep 18, 2008 - 12:50 pm 133. bongo mon:

‘ey, mon! has anyone pointed this possibility yet? : I personally feel that barrack is for me more equivalent to that guy from the bible who had to try and get all the babies killed to try and prevent the coming of Jesus, as were the prophesies of the time. and i liken McCain/Palin to a breath of fresh common sense air, with some sunshine and water for new growth in America and a return to greatness, like when they made that Constitution!

Sep 18, 2008 - 12:58 pm 134. tomw:

Hey, did you guys realize Jesus was also a community organizer? Yeah, just like Barack Hussein Obama. Barack Hussein Obama is JUST LIKE JESUS!!!!! He should change his name to Barack Jesus Obama. Vote for him and you’ll be saved!!!! Hallelujah !!!!!

I’m astonished at the completely insane rationales that some of you use to prove that Jesus wasn’t a community organizer. Who cares? really? Community organizing is a very broad, ambiguous term, that can be used to describe a lot of activities. Was Hitler a community organizer? Yes, that counts too. Hitler, Obama, and Jesus, all community organizers, but that doesn’t mean anything.

It’s just something that was said to refute Giuliani/Palin’s attack of community service. That’s all. If you don’t think the work Obama did while community organizing was worth while, then that’s fine, argue that then. But don’t be stupid and try to redefine this term to somehow separate Obama from Jesus.

BTW, I think my carpenter suggestion would actually work pretty well for McCain.

Sep 18, 2008 - 1:01 pm 135. HansMast.com » Jesus was a community organizer, Pilate was a governor:

[...] If there was any questions before that Obama’s followers lavish upon him messianic praise, there are no doubts remaining as their recent mantra has been: “Jesus was a community organizer; Pilate was a governor”. The only problem? It’s not true. [...]

Sep 18, 2008 - 1:01 pm 136. Mikael:

# Pee Wee

This is even better, although it fom the primaries.

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/d0a842c3d2

Sep 18, 2008 - 1:48 pm 137. Nunya:

RE: tomw’s here’s why I’m voting for Obama:

Taking your rationale at face value, I do appreciate the relatively respectful and earnest reasoning in how you explained your candidate choice.

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree though (as well as cancel each other out in Nov. ), because I have seen nothing from Obama’s experience (less than Palin’s), judgement, associations, or manner to feel comfortable with him as the leader of this nation. In fact, the idea of it scares the shite outta me.

Foreign Policy: Cooperate with friendly allied world leaders, absolutely. However, negotiate with hostile world leaders who lust for nothing more than American destruction? Um, no. There’s a reason we’ve had zero attacks on American soil within the past seven years, and it’s because we have had a leader (and a nothing short of heroic all-volunteer armed forces) who are unafraid to make difficult choices and stand by them, usually alone.

Economy: If we were both honest, I think it can be safely conceded that both parties are guilty of being beholden to The Money – after all, that’s how either side is able to sustain a campaign. For Reps, it’s job-creating big business, at least when they aren’t taxed and regulated to the point that they can no longer afford to keep shops open or hire workers in this country; for Dems, it’s Hollywood, the News Media, academia, George Soros, and in O’s case, Fannie and Freddie.

Taxes: In eight years under Clinton (D), I paid more in taxes every year; he was a pretty good sax player though, I’ll give him that. In eight years under Bush2 (R), I usually got my money back in the form of refund, or more. Hope you didn’t spend your stimulus check from Uncle Dubya all in one place.

However the vote goes in Nov, I think we can both agree that the results will be historic.

Explaining my choice as succinctly and respectfully as I can, McCain and Palin have actual experience in not only reforming their own party, but sacrificing personally for their country (McCain), returning money back to the taxpayers (Palin’s 80% approval rating), reforming their own party (both), and working WITH the opposition (they will *gasp* have Democrats in their Cabinet!) – rather than trying to destroy them as we have already seen how the more vocal on your side feel about Gov. Palin.

And isn’t it more pleasant when we can consider each other’s POV without attacks and name-calling.

Sep 18, 2008 - 2:16 pm 138. Chuck Pelto:

TO: tomw
RE: Just How Ignorant….

Hey, did you guys realize Jesus was also a community organizer? — tomw

…are you? Anyway?

The only community Christ organized during His time on Earth was a group of twelve.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[If your knowledge of Christianity were dynamite, it wouldn't blow the brains out of a flea.]

Sep 18, 2008 - 2:18 pm 139. Chuck Pelto:

P.S. And I doubt if anyone in their right mind would call the 12 disciples a ‘community’. They had not homes. They were always moving on. They were never recognized as ‘legit’ by any governmental body. Etc. Etc. Etc…..

Sep 18, 2008 - 2:39 pm 140. tomw:

TO: Chuck Pelto
RE: FTW

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Christ#Ministry
At the height of his ministry, Jesus attracted huge crowds numbering in the thousands, primarily in the areas of Galilee and Perea (in modern-day Israel and Jordan respectively).[35] Some of Jesus’ most famous teachings come from the Sermon on the Mount, which contained the Beatitudes and the Lord’s Prayer. Jesus often employed parables, such as the Parable of the Prodigal Son and the Parable of the Sower. His teachings encouraged unconditional self-sacrificing God-like love for God and for all people. During his sermons, he preached about service and humility, the forgiveness of sin, faith, turning the other cheek, love for one’s enemies as well as friends, and the need to follow the spirit of the law in addition to the letter.[36]

I guess a ministry of thousands might be considered a community? Sounds kinda like organizing too, preaching about service…

Sep 18, 2008 - 3:40 pm 141. nlcatter:

1 Jesus is NOT historical thus A-historical is not an applicable adjective.

Sep 18, 2008 - 3:44 pm 142. tomw:

Nunya: “However, negotiate with hostile world leaders who lust for nothing more than American destruction? Um, no. ”

Why not?

Obviously, if they hate the USA that much, they’re probably going to be unwilling to talk to us as well. But if said country is willing to sit down and talk, why not? I don’t see a down side to trying to understand each other. If negotiations fail, are we worse off? No. But we could be better off. Refusing to talk will only cause hostilities to grow larger.

“And isn’t it more pleasant when we can consider each other’s POV without attacks and name-calling.”

Agreed.

Sep 18, 2008 - 3:51 pm 143. Tim Furnish:

nlcatter,
Where did you go to school? At least three non-Christian Roman historians–Josephus, Tacitus and Suetonius–corroborate Jesus’ historicity. Of course, even if one wished to deny totally the historicity of any and all New Testament texts, one would have to totally ignore or deny the many references to Jesus in the early Patristic writings.
As has been said by better scholars than me, Jesus is better corroborated from ancient history than the likes of Alexander the Great or Julius Caesar. But since it sounds like you went to public school and/or fed mainly at a liberal trough, you probably have never heard of those two chaps.

Sep 18, 2008 - 4:25 pm 144. Jeff Dorfman:

Dear Dr. Furnish,
My apologies for the mistake in your name. All written in haste when I should be working…

Dear Chuck Pelto,
You say:
“Being a ‘community organizer’ is not necessarily a ‘good’ thing. And, in many cases, success can go to their head and destroy their moral judgement (see the names I mentioned above). In other words, it does not always make one godly.”

I do not disagree with your point or try to argue otherwise. Even though a minister or a doctor could be said to do God’s work, that does not make all doctors or ministers Godly.

I am disagreeing with one of the central points of Dr. Furnish’s article (and part of the quote that heads this web page): “(that) Jesus was a community organizer… is ahistorical and just plain dumb.” He takes an unusually (and incorrectly, I think) narrow definition of a community organizer and flails it around to “demonstrate” this.

best regards,
Jeff Dorfman

Sep 18, 2008 - 9:46 pm 145. Chuck Pelto:

TO: tomw
RE: Of Understanding Christianity…

At the height of his ministry, Jesus attracted huge crowds numbering in the thousands, primarily in the areas of Galilee and Perea — tomw

….and flea brains.

So what? He attracted them, preached to them and, in several cases, miraculously fed them. I’ve read it all so many times in the past. Indeed. Just passed it in Matthew earlier this week.

Show me where that was organizing them into politically active blocks. Come on…..

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Fishes....Barrels....and a Shotgun....]

P.S. Maybe you should join my Mens’ Friday Morning Bible Study Group. You’ll learn a LOT.

Sep 19, 2008 - 4:36 am 146. Chuck Pelto:

TO:
RE: Dr. Furnish’s Article

He takes an unusually (and incorrectly, I think) narrow definition of a community organizer and flails it around to “demonstrate” this. — Jeff Dorfman

I take a similarly narrow view, as you may have surmised from reading the recent engagement between myself and tomw.

There’s more to being a ‘community organizer’ than preaching and feeding. I know. I do community organizing myself these days. I can stand on a hill in a park and preach too. But that doesn’t get a group of people organized to do much of anything. It takes a LOT more than that.

Christ, in His first iteration walking the Earth organized a small band. I’ll wager he didn’t even organize them. He collected them and they, out of necessity, organized themselves; ‘Judas. You seem to have an interest in money. You hold the group purse.’

The surviving members of that ‘gang’….THEY were the ‘community organizers’. THEY established the churches.

Hope that helps.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Atheism is a non-prophet organization.]

Sep 19, 2008 - 4:45 am 147. Mary:

So why is it a big deal that Barrack Obama helped me get on welfare when he was a community organizer? I have five children and no husband. I need the money.

Sep 19, 2008 - 6:08 am 148. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Mary
RE: You’re Welcome

So why is it a big deal that Barrack Obama helped me get on welfare when he was a community organizer? I have five children and no husband. I need the money. — Mary

And I’m one of the people providing that money for you. And yet…

….the ‘mary’ mentioned above, seems to damn me for my efforts; as if I did not care. If I didn’t care, I would probably be in open revolt against the government of the United States. But for some strange reason….I’m not.

How is it then that I don’t care?

As for the ‘no husband’ part. You have my sympathy and my prayers about that. It must be a very difficult row to hoe.

I suggest you start looking for a good man to help you. You might try a GOOD—and by that I mean a REAL—christian church.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband: but she that maketh ashamed is as rottenness in his bones.]

Sep 19, 2008 - 7:16 am 149. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Mary
RE: ERRATA!

That other ‘mary’ was on another thread.

Sorry about my confusion.

Regards,

Chuck(le)

Sep 19, 2008 - 7:59 am 150. E.D.:

In response to schnargley’s question:

“Why do you right-wingers all continually quibble over words and definitions?”

It was the left-wing Barack Obama who told us earlier this year that words matter. He was very emphatic about that.

Sep 19, 2008 - 8:53 am 151. tomw:

TO: Chuck(le)
RE: Community Organizing.

“Show me where that was organizing them into politically active blocks. Come on…..”

That’s what the apostles were for, they were the ones being organized, and yes 12 is a community too. Look we can obviously go around in circles on this forever. I have a broader definition of what “community organizing” is than you, and truthfully I think your wrong to have such a narrow scope on what is very broad term. Regardless, why is this important? Do you really think that because Obama and Jesus were both community organizers that that should mean something? I guess I just don’t see what the big deal is.

BTW, How do you italicize? bold? any cool other cool tricks?

Sep 19, 2008 - 9:07 am 152. Chuck Pelto:

TO: tomw
RE: Sooo…

That’s what the apostles were for, they were the ones being organized, and yes 12 is a community too. — tomw

You finally agree that Jesus was not a ‘community organizer’.

Cripes and it took how many days?

Twelve is an A-Team. Not a ‘community’.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Jesus had a twelve-man A-Team. You'll have one too, oh lordy! -- Special Forces 'Spiritual', used in marching]

Sep 19, 2008 - 9:28 am 153. Nathan Creitz:

Has anyone heard about Obama’s new spanish speaking ad? As if Mexicans aren’t smart enough to discern when Obama is lying to them. (here’s a hint: most of the time). First, Obama took Rush Limbaugh’s words out of context and credited him with saying that Mexicans are stupid. Secondly, Rush and McCain are hardly friends and have disagreed on hundreds of issues. Thirdly, even if Rush had said those things and were they both good friends, that doesn’t mean McCain believes Mexicans are stupid. Should we remind Obama of his guilt by association (rightly or wrongly) with Mr. Jeremiah Wright? Here’s the contrast, 1) Wright DID make racist remarks over and over again (unlike Rush’s comments which were taken out of context. 2) Obama and Wright were lifelong friends (not just moderately linked ideologically like Limbaugh and McCain). 3) Finally, Obama was a member of his church for 20 years and clearly is running his campaign on race. If Obama is elected it will be the largest affirmative action hire in our history. I am so frustrated with his lies. Vote for McCain or we are doomed.

Sep 19, 2008 - 9:34 am 154. tomw:

Chuckle, I guess you can’t read so good, because I never agreed with you. In fact your obsessive desire to redefine “community” and “organizing” has me for a loss of words. I don’t get it. I suspect there might be some chemical imbalance going on.

Why is it you keep avoiding my other question: Why is this so important to you?

Sep 19, 2008 - 9:51 am 155. Chuck Pelto:

TO: tomw
RE: Look Whose Talking

Chuckle, I guess you can’t read so good, because I never agreed with you. — tomw

Your projection is obvious to even the most casual observer….if they’ve more of an education than you apparently have.

Especially in light of the fact you recognized that Christ had twelve followers and THEY were community organizers.

’nuff said.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else. -- Albert Einstein]

Sep 19, 2008 - 11:53 am 156. Believer:

Obama and Christ are polar opposites.

The message that Obama took to the ‘community’ was antithetical to the message and work that Christ brought to the masses.

To have drawn his church into the ‘Alinsky’ method – and message – was and is, at the very least, offensive to the Christian.

If one believes Christ, and has mercifully known forgiveness, then one knows that what Obama and TUCC preach is a message that steals man’s very salvation.

That has been the greatest evil. I can only hope that Wright’s eyes are every bit as blind as Obama’s. Ask that our Father forgive them both; they know not what they do.

But be wiser than they. And choose well. That our words and actions hurt no one.

Sep 19, 2008 - 12:04 pm 157. Chuck Pelto:

TO: tomw
RE: [OT] How To

How do you italicize? bold? any cool other cool tricks? — tomw

It’s composition language of the html dialect.

{b} and {/b} — to Bold everything between the code items; and
{i} and {/i} — to Italics
{strike} and {/strike} to strike-thru
{blockquote} and {/blockquote} to make a blockquote of text

Replace all left and right braces “{”, “}” with left and right carrots “”. If I’d used them here, you would not see the code.

Hope that helps.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Programming, like punning, is a play on words.]

Sep 19, 2008 - 12:29 pm 158. Chuck Pelto:

TO: tomw
RE: Isn’t It Self-Evident?

Why is it you keep avoiding my other question: Why is this so important to you? — tomw

It’s because I support the truth. And saying that He was a ‘community organizer’ is not the truth.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -- Albert Einstein]

Sep 19, 2008 - 12:31 pm 159. nlcatter:

mCCAIN SAID oBAMA WAS A good COMMUNITY ORGANIZER

IS MCCAIN LYING?

ROFLGMO

Sep 19, 2008 - 1:36 pm 160. Jesus Warrior:

This is sad that the will of God can be exploited for political gains. First of all Jesus did not go out and seek anyone, they came to him all he did was the will of God. Abortion, official oppression, terrorism, inciting riots, homosexuality, fornication, sexual deviancy did I miss any pages in the Bible. I minister the word of God, not the hatred of Rev. Wright nor the KKK, nor La Raza neither and not just the mercy and grace pages either.
According to Jesus keep the government out of Christianity. Jesus did not worry about any ones else religion except in telling they will also go to hell, just like deceivers of the word of God. Jesus was out to make money, nor receive benefits in tax deductions because of bringing forth the word and will of God.
No one should vote on the president based on his preceived relationship with anyone. God could be using the relationship to sharpen the person but instead look at has the person grown in any aspects toward the duties you seek in a candidate. Political parties are more of the problem then the solution, they are in alliance with each other to keep the people from revolting politically. Obama gather a couple signatures, I heard of no scholarship arranged nor anyone he helped remove from public housing, remove from welfare, I mean becoming independent of governmemnt funding. A community organizer should improve the community less government would improve any community.

Sep 19, 2008 - 2:16 pm 161. DavidN:

Obviously the author of this article hasn’t paid attention to the adoration Obama gets from his followers. Clearly someone is going to think he’s walking on water, sooner or later.

But one of the comments makes a point that has been made repeatedly, but should be remade again. Obama’s running against Palin as if she’s the candidate. McCain is off to one side, and Biden’s only mentioned when he opens his mouth to change feet. It’s a weird dynamic. If I were Obama I would do my best to not mention Palin at all, thinking that if I ignored her maybe the media attention would die down. Instead, he and his friends attack her daily (the latest assault being her hacked email) with the idea that if they can hit her the right way, everyone will see her for “what she is” and she’ll be forced from the ticket. Instead, so far, it’s just making her look more resolute.

Sep 19, 2008 - 3:38 pm 162. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: Biden and Comments and Feet, Oh My!

Biden’s only mentioned when he opens his mouth to change feet. — DavidN

OOOOoooouuuucccchhhhhh!

THAT’S going to leave a mark.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Nothing can withstand good wit.]

Sep 19, 2008 - 3:50 pm 163. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: Then Again….

….I have to think, What Would Jesus Do….

…about THIS SORT OF FOLLOWER?

Yes, He associated with criminals, prostitutes and the ungodly. But I doubt if He accepted their continued malfeasance as appropriate recognition of him.

It’ll be interesting to see what Obama does with them. It’ll make a nice compare and contrast.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[A tree is known by its fruit. -- The Christ]

Sep 20, 2008 - 6:50 am 164. Jennefier:

Old Lefty read this and thank God you were not a fetus around Huessain Mohamad Obama. Liberals love government handouts so they kill the unborn to stop the competition. Of course Obama will say it is racist when he is exposed for the cold hearted S.O.B. he is!

If It Was Up to Obama, This Woman Would be Dead
Townhall.com ^ | September 20, 2008 | Doug Giles

Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2008 06:46:53 by Kaslin

No, I’m not talking about Sarah Palin, I’m talking about Gianna Jessen.

If it was up to the abominable Obama, the to-be-aborted little baby, Gianna Jessen, would have been turned into worm dirt 31 years ago. Thankfully, Mr. Change and Mr. Hope wasn’t around back then to lay his liberal legislative death-dealing pen to Ms. Jessen’s fate—and the world is a better place for it.

So, who is Gianna Jessen?

Gianna is an abortion survivor. Yep, she kicked death’s butt and survived against all odds. Her medical records state that she was “born during a saline abortion,” and if Barack Obama would have had his way, she wouldn’t be here.

Barack Obama voted four times against affording these “born alives” their most basic human right. Chilling, eh? How progressive of you, liberals. Hitler would be proud, and I’m sure Satan is just giddy with your creative ways to slay that inconvenient little baby even if it survives your initial assault.

Jessen, with a Pit Bull spirit, survived being burned alive in saline solution for eighteen hours. Eighteen hours, ladies and gents! FYI: This is not the same saline solution you use to clean your contacts but a lethal cocktail of death intended to cook the unborn kid from the inside out.

Weighing in at 2 lbs at birth with cerebral palsy (thanks to the effects of the witch’s brew she stewed in), the gloomy doctors said little Gianna would never be able to hold up her head, sit up, crawl or walk.

God had different plans.

Not only did she hold her head up, sit, crawl and walk, but she has run in two twenty-six mile marathons and has spoken all over the world, on TV, in churches and on college campuses about the power of God and the sanctity of life. Put that in your stupid pipe and smoke it, all-wise and all-knowing doctors.

Liberals love being painted as the defender of the underdog. Yeah, if you feel like you are being abused, oppressed, preyed upon, neglected, entitled to something or endangered in any way . . . do not fear! The Dems are here! Their protection extends not only to the human victim, but also to the translucent hair lice, the gargling nut warbler, a warming globe, a rare venereal crab, and a whooping crane’s egg.

Yep, the liberals will ramp up to Mach2, set their hair on fire, and fight, yell, picket, protest and blog their fingers bloody for animal rights and for your rights—that is unless, of course, you’re an unborn child.

It is with the unborn baby that the “protectors of the weak” morph into the party that wreaks havoc upon the truly helpless. It’s interesting to see misty-eyed liberals go quasi-Talibanic for the little animal while they have absolutely no qualms whatsoever endorsing the snuffing out of the life of a tiny unborn human.

One of the reasons the barbaric left uses to convince themselves that they’re right on the issue of killing that inconvenient “little bugger” (as one of their own calls it) is that it is not yet a person.

Something that is really wrecking the “protectors of the weak” BS campaign of killing unborn kids, however, is ultrasound imagery (Oops. Didn’t see that coming, now did you?). These pics and videos are screwing up things for the pro-choicers. Back in the day when they were selling us on the “fetal blob” stuff, all we had at our disposal to contradict their nonsense was common sense and a very grainy 2D sonogram.

With the use of ultrasound imaging increasing daily, how a person can say that an unborn baby is not yet a person and can be killed at Mommy Dearest’s discretion is barbarically beyond me. I guess the left and the pink conservatives callous their hearts to the unborn by rejecting a proposition central to Judeo-Christian thought regarding life and death: namely, that human life (beginning at conception and lasting until the person naturally croaks) is intrinsically good and thus sacred—not just instrumentally good.

In contrast with the secular “elite,” the “stupid,” “non-elite” and “archaic” Judeo-Christian constituency believes that all people—from the embryo to the elderly, including severely developmentally disabled, people in comas and everyone in between—have dignity and value. As Robert George said, “Their significance is not based upon what they can do, or how they make us feel or whether or not we approve of their quality of life, but principally because they live.”

And yet, these secular barbaric “tools” see human beings as tools; and if they don’t somehow fit instrumentally within the secularists’ Darwinian, utilitarian utopia, they get tagged as “inconvenient” and are relegated to the “very expendable” list. That’s why abortion is no big deal, and neither is taking the life of a so-called defective child, or suicide, or “mercy killing” a helpless senior. But God help you if you should ever run a boat’s prop over a manatee’s back! They’ll get pissed!

Not only does Obama’s Party of Death (as Ramesh Ponnuru calls the libtards) advocate the death of the unborn and the inconvenient, but they also want your tax dollars to pay for their death wishes, for all parents to butt out of their teenage daughter’s abortion plans, and for the US to continue to stay left of Europe when it comes to abortion on demand. Consider all the above when you cast your vote in November, those of you on the left and the right who cherish the unborn more than a sea cow.

For all the 411 on Gianna Jessen and what she’s up to, go to http://www.BornAliveTruth.org. Send her money, watch her videos, play her radio spots and help her wake our nation up to Barack’s barbaric beliefs.

Sep 21, 2008 - 7:46 am 165. Rika:

You people need to get a life…you’re all effing insane…Especially the ones that think that they’re such good Christians, that they have the right to JUDGE OTHERS !!! JUDGE NOT, LEST YE BE JUDGED !!!!!

Sep 23, 2008 - 1:55 pm 166. Jessica P M:

Good straight foward analysis again, Dr. Furnish. Your time and knowledge (via your experience) are well appreciated.

Sep 26, 2008 - 5:20 pm

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Pontius Palin and Messiah Obama

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