Pajamas Media

63 Comments

1. Big Al:

LET US ASK THE PRESIDENT NOT TO PARDON JOHN WALKER LINDH UNTIL WE HEAR FROM JOHNNY MIKE SPANN ON THE MATTER

Jan 1, 2009 - 6:14 am 2. RedHeadedTexan:

Border Agents Ramos and Campeon, who were railroaded into prison (IMNSHO) for doing their jobs, should be pardoned immediately.

Jan 1, 2009 - 6:22 am 3. Vaughn:

Right on Big Al! The only reasonable pardons this year, are for Ramos and Compean. Pollard is more acceptable than Lindh.

Jan 1, 2009 - 6:39 am 4. Tolbert:

You dissemble, Jonathan Pollard was not only a spy for a friendly country he was a U.S. citizen. That makes his actions those of a traitor.

Also, 20 year olds are not children. They can vote, they can marry, they can enter into binding legal contracts. Lindh took up arms against his country. He is beneath contempt.

Jan 1, 2009 - 6:45 am 5. Craig:

“The case of John Walker Lindh, the 20-year-old child that was convicted of serving in the Taliban army for four months, cries out for commutation. He was a lost kid, probably rebelling against his parents…”

Rebelling against his parents? Smoking weed is rebelling. Breaking curfews and underage drinking is rebelling.

What Lindh did is unforgivable. He should be shot- and preferably by a family member of Spann.

Jan 1, 2009 - 7:16 am 6. Parabellum:

John Walker Lindh was an un-uniformed enemy combatant and a traitor. He should have been interrogated and then executed on the spot.

Jan 1, 2009 - 7:21 am 7. Bilgeman:

Ms. Goldman:

“We, as a country, are the ones that are losing out when we criminalize public service. The best and brightest of our country are refusing to do public service because they do not want to be caught up in this maelstrom.”

You can’t put the genie back in the bottle. This is the legacy of Watergate and the 1960’s era “New Left”.
I was young then, but I remember the vitriol thrown at Richard Nixon, and for those of you too young to remember it, the Reagan bashing and Bush Derangement Syndrome are pale shadows of the raw and unedited hate that was directed towards him.
The effort to get Nixon out of office and end the Viet Nam war was TRULY a scorched earth effort, and no-one involved in the wolfpack at the time likely gave any thought to what their conduct and statement would mean to the future of governance in our Republic.

“Even though I am a card-carrying Democrat, I am still for this pardon.”

Quite understandable on your part, now that we have elected a Democratic President from the Chicago School of politics…as we’re finding out, there may be a lot of ore in that particular lode…

If you wish to pardon people, how about military members incarcerated for crimes against property?

Release them from Leavenworth and discharge them.
(This would free up cell-space for Gitmo’s unlawful combatants, btw).

The big-shots have lawyers and resources to campaign for their causes, but the little guy who f*cked up, but caused no-one any physical harm…who’s in HIS corner?

You claim to be a Democrat, yet you use your soapbox for “cause-celebres”…Michael Milliken? Dennis Kozlowski?…please.

I’d also have expected you to add Leonard Peltier, but maybe he’s too small-fry for you.

Jan 1, 2009 - 7:21 am 8. John B:

My vote is also for Border Patrol Agents Ramos and Campeon. Their trial was a travesty.

Their conviction and imprisonment has sent a clear and unmistakable signal to the Mexican criminal cartel, and it’s a green light. Do whatever you like across our southern border and we won’t lift a finger to stop you.

Jan 1, 2009 - 7:49 am 9. Brandyjane:

Ramos and Compean should be released immediately and receive pardons.

As for Lindh…A twenty-year-old is not a child. I do not have enough information about Lindh to speak intelligently about whether he should be pardoned or receive a sentence commutation, but please do not try to excuse what he did by claiming it was because he was too young to understand what he was doing.

Jan 1, 2009 - 7:55 am 10. Jo:

Ramos and Compean should definitely be pardoned. I think it is strange that they have been, in a matter of speaking, thrown under the bus. And why is the President not addressing this?
I have tried to get my two US senators, Isakson and Chambliss to help, but so far, not even a reply.

Jan 1, 2009 - 8:20 am 11. trangbang68:

Johnnie Jihad is still a Muslim. Seeing as his brand of Islam is the West hating Wahaabi variety, he is a danger to society and should grow old praying to Mecca behind the walls of SuperMax in Colorado.
Bush’s not going to bat for Ramos and Campeon is strange . At worst they were pawns in the game; border agents fighting a hopeless battle trying to stem the tide of illegals. That the perp was a drug smuggler makes their incarceration even more unjust.

Jan 1, 2009 - 8:46 am 12. Tex Taylor:

Border Agents Ramos and Campeon are heroes in my book…the fact they were arrested is a travesty.

Scooter Libby should be added to the list.

John Walker’s head should be sawed off with a rusty blade, impaled and bronzed with the inscription below: “Allahu Akbar”

Jan 1, 2009 - 9:09 am 13. lucy:

John Walker Lindh a child? A 20 year old is a child? What planet are you from? He was a warrior, a soldier with intentions to kill Americans no matter how dysfunctional his stinking family might have been. Wow. Just wow.

Ramos and Compean on the other hand were protecting the American public, should never have gone to prison and should be released immediately.

Jan 1, 2009 - 10:47 am 14. Tim Daniels:

Torture never happened, Ms. Goldman; it’s a red herring. Show me the bambooed fingernails; show me the physical harm inflicted; naked prisoners embarrassed doesn’t cut the muster, neither does “waterboarding,” a technique that causes no physical harm but breaks the will and resolve of the captive. I fear for the safety of our country now that your buddies have taken control.

Jan 1, 2009 - 12:07 pm 15. Tim Daniels:

Ms. Goldman,
Can we please remember that the charges for which Mr. “Transparent” Obama and his handler, Rahm Emmanuel, have been questioned are far more objective and serious than those for which Scooter Libby was questioned. Valerie Plame was not even a covert agent. However, if Emmanuel, as Obama’s mouthpiece, was participating in extortion, bribery, and the undermining of our constitution–we must know that and convict to the fullest extent the law allows!

Jan 1, 2009 - 12:15 pm 16. Mike T:

Even considering that Al-Dellemy was not an employee of the U.S. intelligence services, but spied for enemy countries, the disparity between his and Pollard’s sentence is glaring.

The difference is that Pollard was an employee of an intelligence agency, and the government has to make an example out of anyone who commits treason while holding a TS/SCI clearance.

The case of John Walker Lindh, the 20-year-old child that was convicted of serving in the Taliban army for four months, cries out for commutation. He was a lost kid, probably rebelling against his parents, who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. He has already served seven years of a 20-year sentence.

This attitude, though less extreme in most people, is precisely the reason that society is no longer producing people who can function like adults in their late teens and early 20s.

Jan 1, 2009 - 1:35 pm 17. Donna V.:

The case of John Walker Lindh, the 20-year-old child that was convicted of serving in the Taliban army for four months, cries out for commutation. He was a lost kid, probably rebelling against his parents, who was in the wrong place at the wrong time. He has already served seven years of a 20-year sentence.

When our servicemen and women are accused of wrongdoing, nobody argues that they were “just kids” who didn’t know what they were doing. John Murtha didn’t cut the Haditha Marines any slack because they were young; in fact, he assumed they were guilty before they were proven innocent.

Jan 1, 2009 - 2:51 pm 18. Grover:

Libby, Ramos, Compean-MOST DEFINITELY!!!!!
Traitors – NO!!!!!

Jan 1, 2009 - 2:56 pm 19. Larsen E Whipsnade:

14. Tim Daniels: “Torture never happened”

Placing ladies panties on the heads of prisoners, and forcing prisoners to walk naked, are both a most extreme form of torture. In fact, so extreme that neither was never done before in history, not even during the inquisition. We need to send a message to our troops that this sort of prisoner abuse will never be tolerated.

Jan 1, 2009 - 3:21 pm 20. kdman:

Ramos and Compean IMMEDIATELY. Lindh, never. Libby…yes.

Jan 1, 2009 - 4:16 pm 21. Ken Hahn:

I’ll join the chorus for Ramos and Copean, The others, I don’t really care except Lindh. He can rot.

Jan 1, 2009 - 4:38 pm 22. Seth Levy:

Two things:
How can you not even MENTION Ramos and Compean? They deserve immediate pardons and compensation for their time spent in prison. Why do you think the violence in Chihuahua has stayed in Mexico and not come into our country? It is because of heros like Ramos and Compean.
Also, how can you consider someone who is 20 to be a kid? In the Arab society, a 9 year old is old enough to marry and/or blow themselves up, yet a 20 year old cannot be tried as an adult? Give me a break.

Jan 1, 2009 - 4:48 pm 23. 888:

For the past 2 years, I have tirelessly and vigorously defended President Bush in Pajamas Media blogs, on Economist.com and on various other online blogs and commentaries (Washington Post, Christian Science Monitor, Newsmax, etc.).

Throughout the recent presidential campaign, when Obama controlled all discussions and he and the global liberal establishment successfully brainwashed the gullible American mindset by consistently talking about “the failures of the past 8 years” and Hillary and even McCain piled on, I would passionately write about President Bush’s accomplishments in Africa (AFRICOM, fight against malaria & HIV, rebuilding Liberia http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23271503/, etc.,etc.), his call for establishment of a viable Palestinian state and ‘right of return’ of Israeli-occupied land, and how his Freedom & Democracy Initiative and what we are doing in Iraq today will lead to stability, spread of democracy and freedom and prosperity throughout the greater Arabian Gulf region and beyond (I compared Iraq & Afghanistan liberation & rebuilding to what we did to democratize and rebuild Japan, Germany and Korea after WWII & the Korean Conflict), and I also wrote about how Bush’s trade and joint military agreements and alliances with India, China, former Soviet bloc countries (Poland, Czech Republic, the ‘Stans), Australia, Philippines, Indonesia, Canada, Mexico and other Latin American countries are all far-reaching and are marks of a true world visionary and humanitarian and will vindicate him in future history books.

His ‘No Child Left Behind’ Initiative, although not funded adequately by Congress, made everyone aware (especially the powerful, but useless teachers’ unions) of the importance of our kids’ education and how teachers (and parents) should be held accountable for properly educating children. Bush’s Faith-Based Initiative, though villified by ultra-liberal secularists and atheists, is a model program and now being emulated by Obama strategists to win the evangelical vote.

I also frequently wrote about how the financial and economic turmoil we are experiencing today was caused by Carter’s and Clinton’s Community Reinvestment Act, by Greenspan stupidly lowering interest rates which made excess credit/money available, Dodd and Barney Frank’s refusal to fix Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac, Wall Street and mortgage lenders’ greed and corruption, and by people who couldn’t (wouldn’t) pay their mortgages. I talked about how the Bush Administration repeatedly, over the years, went to Congressional hearings and brought to light the problems of an unregulated Fannie & Freddie and told Congress (Frank & Dodd) of the potential for a housing/financial meltdown if the Fannie/Freddie programs weren’t fixed. And then now, ironically, Bush, the MBA graduate and free trade and free market supporter, is being condemned for “embracing socialism” because he is trying to keep afloat mismanaged institutions like Ford and GM (whose ungrateful union members and UAW leadership hate Bush) and fix what all those losers (Carter, Clinton, Greenspan, Frank, etc.) did who got us in this financial mess in the first place.

Despite all the negatives that have been written about President Bush, I have stubbornly stayed by his side throughout his 2 terms because I truly believe he is a good and kindhearted man whose actions and decisions were based on his wanting to preserve American (Western) ideals, values, security and interests and a sincere desire to care for and aid those less fortunate around the world.

However…all that I wrote in President Bush’s defense will be for naught if he does not pardon Ramos and Compean. I’ve always believed that Bush is a true ‘compassionate conservative’. I saw that side of him when he stubbornly pushed on with wanting to bring democracy and security to the Iraqi people despite consistently low approval ratings back home and abroad and the daily, nauseating barrage of vitriol and hatred thrown at him by Bush-bashers the world over (including ungrateful Iraqis and those in his own Republican party). I want to continue proudly defending him on his foreign policy accomplishments as well as his keeping America safe and terrorist-free since 9/11 and his solid support for, and pride, in the men and women of the US military and for our veterans (we thank him for the recent 5.8% increase for veterans’ retirement & disability pensions and social security recipients’ pensions — the highest COLA increase since 1982 http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/10/military_COLA_2009_101608w/).

But, I will lose a lot of respect for him if he does not do what is right and just in the Ramos/Compean case.

President Bush, PLEASE PARDON THESE TWO FINE CIVIL SERVANTS. THEY DESERVE NOT ONLY THEIR FREEDOM, BUT ALSO OUR GRATITUDE. YOU NEED TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT AND FAIR AND JUST IN THIS CASE. http://ramos-compean.blogspot.com/

Jan 1, 2009 - 5:28 pm 24. Jay B:

“I do not hold out much hope for Pollard’s pardon…”

Why would you hope for a traitor to our country to be pardoned? Mr. Pollard put the interests of his co-religionists before his country (which has always been a concern regarding Jewish-Americans’ allegiance). Why exactly do you ‘hope for’ Mr. Pollards pardon, Ms. Goldman?

Jan 1, 2009 - 6:06 pm 25. nadadhimmi:

I truely believe that the Bush family is in on drug smuggling on the border and the agents were nuked to let the other guys know when to lay off. But then, I was dumb enough to vote for W twice. As for Pollard, Walker et al, execute the traitorous bastards as the law allows. Pardon Col. Chaissani immediately.

Jan 1, 2009 - 7:25 pm 26. Войска ПВО:

Brabdyjane writes:

“Ramos and Compean should be released immediately and receive pardons.”

..no, they should be released and declared innocent. One is pardoned if one is guilty of a crime. These two were not.

Jan 1, 2009 - 7:48 pm 27. Darvin Dowdy:

Can you believe that Pajama’s Media would allow a writer to write on this particular subject and not even a mention of Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean??? Both Pajama’s Media and this Laura Goldman have lost a great deal of credibility. SHAMEFUL!! Darvin Dowdy

Jan 1, 2009 - 9:28 pm 28. myth buster:

The President can’t declare someone innocent, but he can issue a pardon, striking the conviction from the record and voiding the sentence, or a commutation, which lessens the sentence for that crime, potentially down to time served.

As for Lindh, he should count himself lucky that he isn’t on death row for High Treason. Levying war against the United States while bearing US citizenship is Treason. A death warrant is outstanding against Adam Ghadan for the same crime. He is wanted, dead or alive, for joining Al Queda and providing propaganda for them.

Jan 1, 2009 - 9:30 pm 29. e.l.a.tom:

Some relly great postings on an important & timely topic. Imho, the most outstanding ones were from Big Al,Craig, Bilgeman, 888,Donna V., Tex Taylor & my personal favorite–Parabellum. Like we say in the neighborhood…”Right on, cacheton!”

Jan 2, 2009 - 12:06 am 30. Tantor:

According to Wikipedia:
“Former President Bush once said: ‘I have nothing but contempt and anger for those who betray the trust by exposing the name of our sources. They are, in my view, the most insidious of traitors.’

That’s exactly what happened to Valerie Wilson. Her identity was revealed, putting her, her family, and our country at risk.

President Bush and Vice President Cheney deserve the widespread contempt they are receiving for this indefensible decision. The Libby commutation makes a mockery of our judicial system and our most fundamental values.”

Jan 2, 2009 - 1:25 am 31. Ann:

I’ve always been under the distinct impression (as illustrated by Billy Bob and his pardon of Mark Rich) that the giving of pardons had very little, if anything, to do with who is most deserving.

We’ll see how it plays out. If Mr. Bush does not give pardons to Scooter Libby, Ramos and Campeon, frankly, I’m not interested in hearing about who he does give them to.

Jan 2, 2009 - 2:52 am 32. JD:

Tantor, GET REAL!

Jan 2, 2009 - 4:38 am 33. Keith M:

Pardon Conrad Black. He was convicted because he was caught on camera cleaning out his office. Mark Steyn has the best commentary on that trial. Black stood up to the US Government and lost.

Jan 2, 2009 - 8:10 am 34. '08ama:

Bush should pardon Bill Clinton. We imnpeached a president for lying about consensual oral sex with another adult. We were probably thinking at the time .. “This is the WORST crime a US president could EVER commit !!!!!” My, how young and naive America was before Bush.

Jan 2, 2009 - 10:13 am 35. don:

The more interesting question is who will Obama pardon?
How about all those political prisoners currently doing disproportionate time for crack cocaine convictions? That should empty a lot of prison beds. Of course, we could have the Gitmo pardons and deportations coming up shortly. Remember Governor Ryan who commuted all the Illinois death row inmates to life? He and the Blag are certainly deserving, especially since the Blag has just appointed a black senator to that currently lilly white institution. You would think after a half century of touting affirmative action more white democratic senators would have resigned to make way for the appointments of black senators. The senate should reflect the society it comes from, like state prisons. Gee. Obama could clear out every death row in all fifty states. Some were already cleared out when the Supremes suspended the death penalty. It’s about time the magical Manson Family and Mr. Manson got to walk the streets again.

Jan 2, 2009 - 10:27 am 36. Sylvie:

Jonathan Pollard should be pardoned most definitely. He has been incacerated for more than 22 years, seems to be one of the longest-serving spies jailed for having spied even for a ‘friendly country’ Israel… whereas others who have spied on behalf of ‘unfriendly counrtries’ such as Russia have already been freed. Can anyone explain why Jonathan Pollard is still imprisoned and not sent away to Israel farawy from it all and so long ago that his name may even sound unfamiliar to many an ear…….

Jan 2, 2009 - 11:08 am 37. Tinfoil Hatter:

“Jonathan Pollard should be pardoned most definitely. He has been incacerated for more than 22 years, seems to be one of the longest-serving spies jailed for having spied even for a ‘friendly country’ Israel…”

Because:

1) It really doesn’t matter for whom Pollard spied. Friendly or no, Pollard violated his security oath and the trust of the American People. The secrets he betrayed were the investment and property of the American people, and not the personal piggy-bank of Pollard. The compromise of those secrets potentially put many American lives at risk.

2) By friendly countries, do you also mean South Africa and Pakistan, to whom Pollard attempted, as I recall, to deliver classified material?

3) Pollard has denied he spied for Israel, then recanted.

4) Pollard spied for personal reasons, related to his personality defects, not out of ideology, not that it matters.

Seriously, anyone who lobbies for Pollard’s release on religious grounds should have their head examined. Pollard is a Jew. So what? Pollard’s actions were criminal in the extreme, and caused no small amount of damage to Israeli-U.S. relations. Advocating for traitor like Pollard is simply an exercise in giving ammo to those anti-Semites that feel that Jews simply cannot be loyal Americans.

Jan 2, 2009 - 11:23 am 38. don:

Continuing Obamas pardon wish list, we can’t forget the honorary Muslim Mumia of free Mumia now fame, currently on death row for killing a cop, going on twenty years. Even the Germans, former fascists converted at the point of American bayonets and liberal carpet bombings, are on the Mumia band wagon. Sometimes bullets rather than ballots work, assuming those German Mumia supporters are not just liberal fascists trolling for a state grant from Berlin. And Sirahan Sirhan could get his walking papers too, a sort of Camelot, let bygones be bygones, pardon for the Kennedy clan and sweet Caroline. Besides, it would make all those UC Berkeley campus Palestinians and the campus communists happy. It’s amazing how uniform the Berkeley thinking is when the social means of thought production is owned by the state. Apparently winning wars of choice only happens with endless due process.

Jan 2, 2009 - 11:35 am 39. Sylvie:

Jonathan Pollard has been incarcerated for 22 years already, and it is to be wondered why he has not been freed by now when Pollard was spying for a ‘friendly country’ ISRAEL … whereas on the other hand others who were spying for ‘unfriendly countries’ such as Russia have already been freed. Jonathan Pollard should be sent to faraway Israel where his story already fades into the mist of the past and even his name has an unfamiliar ring to many an ear. It is high time Jonathan Pollard is made is free man today.

Jan 2, 2009 - 11:38 am 40. Bilgeman:

‘08ama:

““This is the WORST crime a US president could EVER commit !!!!!” My, how young and naive America was before Bush.”

Seriously, what has Bush done that has been so bad? Not Wall Street, not FEMA, not Congress, but Bush acting as POTUS?

Mind you, I think he’s stepped on his tallywhacker a few times, but all in all, I think he’s done a lot better than could be expected, especially after the 2000 election debacle, a hostile MSM, and 9/11.

So it’s a challenge…what specific examples can you offer of this spectacular Bush wrongdoing?

I’ve asked this of people who hold your apparent views before, and after some false starts and yammering, I get the “deer in the headlights” look…and then often as not, they go a personal ad hominem attack against me, as though I should be the one to supply them with the rationale that supports their opinion.

Jan 2, 2009 - 2:46 pm 41. cedarford:

Vaughn:
Right on Big Al! The only reasonable pardons this year, are for Ramos and Compean. Pollard is more acceptable than Lindh.

Pollard and Lindh are both traitors. Pollard did far more damage to America than Lindh because his spymasters sold his purloined high secrets to the Soviet Union for money and additional Soviet Jew visas. The crap about the Spann family having a “right” to justice is just that – crap. Spann was killed by other jihadis. What Lindh did was bear arms against his fellow Americans – not some self-righteous “Victim Family” (the Spanns). His crime is collective in nature – treason against the US, nothing to do with the CIA para killed in the compound…

I wouldn’t object to a society where both Pollard and Lindh (and Ames and Hanssen) were stood up against a wall 20 days after conviction and offered a final cigarette.

**********************

Sylvie:

Jonathan Pollard should be pardoned most definitely. He has been incacerated for more than 22 years, seems to be one of the longest-serving spies jailed for having spied even for a ‘friendly country’ Israel… whereas others who have spied on behalf of ‘unfriendly counrtries’ such as Russia have already been freed. Can anyone explain why Jonathan Pollard is still imprisoned and not sent away to Israel farawy from it all and so long ago that his name may even sound unfamiliar to many an ear…….

Can anyone explain to you? I’d be delighted to:

1. Jews, from the Rosenbergs to Kovel to high-ranking media figures in the 60s, have been the most reliable spies and propagandists for the Russians. It is a good warning to other Jews that aid our enemies..almost as good a lesson as frying the Rosenbergs. Giving away our satellite technology and codes through the Israelis was not as bad as communist Jews setting the Soviet Union up with nuclear bomb engineering and fabrication know-how, but it was bad enough.
2. Next to China and the Russians, the Israelis have the most active espionage network in America. It is salutory for anyone to think of working against America for Israel to be aware they could end up like Pollard – if their stolen secrets end up being bartered off by the Israelis for Chinese consideration (like the F-16 avionics, Patriot Missile radar, satellite technology, and Sidewinder electronics were found to be.).
3. Smart, patriotic Jews like Cap Weinberger and Dav Zackim know that it was right to make a good example out of Pollard to deter dual-loyalty Jews and Far Left Jews tempted to favor their religion, another nation, or ideology over America.
4. Pollard remains unrepenetant, saying all Jews owe other Jews more than they owe America.

**************
Who should be pardoned? I wouldn’t expect much of a failed President like Bush, but besides the two Border agents, I’d like to see a limited pardon for anyone convicted of a 1st-time drug offense in the absence of any other criminal sentences. And I’d like to see a pardon and an expungement of records for any drug dealer or user, DWI, any sex offender other than for actual molestation or 1st degree rape who has a 20-year clean record since completion of sentence. (unless there is a serious crime, I don’t believe our society should impose lifetime stigmas where 25 year long ago busts for pot or pissing in public or caught with a beer in college have to be dredged up to employers or media). You do your time, and unless you are judged as “high risk”, it hurts our society more than helps it to block reformed people from jobs or full rights & standing in society in every aspect.

Jan 2, 2009 - 6:26 pm 42. 888:

08ama (#34), Clinton lied under oath in the Paula Jones’ civil lawsuit against him. Clinton committed perjury when he denied a sexual relationship with Lewinsky during the civil case. He obstructed justice by seeking the return of gifts he and Lewinsky exchanged and also by helping her find a job within Government to get her out of the White House (she ended up with DoD where Linda Tripp taped her now infamous graphic expose of liaisons with Bubba). Clinton also abused the power of the Oval Office by rallying the institutional powers of the presidency to delay Ken Starr’s investigation of his crimes.

And just like Obama, who is mocking and disrespecting the U.S. Constitution (by still not providing a real birth certificate that would prove he is indeed a natural born U.S. citizen), Clinton also mocked the Constitution by engaging in abuses as if he was above the law. Any other Tom, Dick or Harry (or Libby) who lies under oath in a federal court case would be convicted, but not Bubba.

Jan 2, 2009 - 9:00 pm 43. Big Al:

Say, cedarford, you mention ‘Spann was killed by other jihadis’, other than who, lindh?
From what i have read we do not know exactly who killed Spann, what is your source in eliminating lindh? if, lindh knew of the pendending uprising, and did not warn him, when he was questioned by Spann, is that a crime, or dispicable, or just not curtious? also, i can not find the part about it being ‘crap for justice for the Spann family’ in Vaughn’s post, what is that in reference to? i have not seen the accounts of the Spann family calling for justice.

Jan 3, 2009 - 6:05 am 44. Follow me!:

Pollard and Lindh ought to both expire inside grey concrete walls as punishment for their treason and as a lesson to others tempted to mimic them.

Jan 3, 2009 - 12:10 pm 45. noname:

Most of the current over 2 million prisoners of US judicial tyranny should be pardoned on the grounds of vicious savagery and uncivilized barbaric brutality of self serving American (il)legal system. Perhaps with exception of gitmo folks who are actual enemies and should go to hell.

Jan 3, 2009 - 2:37 pm 46. vivo:

40. Bilgeman:

“Seriously, what has Bush done that has been so bad?”

Either you’re blind, deaf or have no memory: enough to IMPEACH Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al.

Jan 3, 2009 - 9:21 pm 47. Harsh Reality:

Why the hell should Pollard deserve a pardon? What has he done to deserve it? All he’s done – from go to woe – is bleat about his imprisonment is an ‘injustice’ and have his followers on the outside cause as much trouble as possible.

As far as I’m aware, he hasn’t once expressed genuine remorse for his actions. Let him rot in jail where he belongs.

Jan 4, 2009 - 7:28 am 48. coisty:

Bush’s not going to bat for Ramos and Campeon is strange

Not strange at all. Bush sided with Mexico in the World Court against the state of Texas in the Jose Medellin case. (Medellin raped and murdered two Texan teens but Mexico claimed that because he was not allowed to contact the Mexican consulate his Miranda rights were violated).

Jan 4, 2009 - 1:06 pm 49. Ann:

40.Bilgeman..”enough to impeach Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld….”

Wow. I wasn’t aware that Mr. Bush, Mr. Cheney and/or Mr. Rumsfeld had been impeached.

Oh…what’s that? In your dreams? Must have been.

Don’t forget to do an occasional reality check when you’re all set to dump on Bush. I can’t help but wonder what on earth the hate Bush group is going to do with their endless, mindless, witless hostility after Blankman begins to play President. We’ll have to keep an eye out for random implosions here and there.

Jan 4, 2009 - 1:26 pm 50. paul_unalaska:

Vivo, your #46 retort is precisely the response Bilgeman posted would receive, ‘and then often as not, they go a personal ad hominem attack against me..’.

Hahahaha!

Jan 4, 2009 - 3:11 pm 51. Bilgeman:

vivo:

“Either you’re blind, deaf or have no memory: enough to IMPEACH Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al.”

Mmmm-hm. That’s EXACTLY what I meant when I wrote this:

“…and then often as not, they go a personal ad hominem attack against me, as though I should be the one to supply them with the rationale that supports their opinion.”

Did that last sentence not get translated into Braille for you?

Apparently Brother ‘08ama is still gasping for air, like a fish on the deck, so the concrete factual reasons to support your apparent opinion of W rest entirely upon YOU to supply.

You DO have facts to support your assertion… don’t you?

Jan 4, 2009 - 3:49 pm 52. Religion of Pieces:

Ramos and Campeon should be pardoned. I cannot understand why Mr. Bush would not pardon them, except that he has this inexplicable love for the most corrupt country in our hemisphere.

I love Israel, but Pollard should definitely not be pardoned. He was a spy against the interests of the U.S. and he knew darn good and well he was committing a crime.

What was more baffling to me is why an ally like Israel was spying on us to begin with.

Jan 4, 2009 - 4:37 pm 53. Bilgeman:

RoPieces:

“What was more baffling to me is why an ally like Israel was spying on us to begin with.”

Practice.

Who do you think gave Pollard up, anyway?

What better way to establish their bona fides than to show us which “tick” to pluck?

Friends and Allies occasionally will do that for each other. Especially when the asset starts “shopping the goods around”.

Once you’re a traitor to your own country, no one in their right mind is going to really trust you.

Stay where God put you, or do the honorable thing and emigrate.

Jan 4, 2009 - 5:19 pm 54. vivo:

51. Bilgeman:

“You DO have facts to support your assertion… don’t you?”

You are a masochist, you enjoy the pain of being told all the mess Bush created. I’m not going to waste my time telling you what everybody knows. Live with it.

Jan 5, 2009 - 4:59 am 55. vivo:

49. Ann:
“I can’t help but wonder what on earth the hate Bush group is going to do with their endless, mindless, witless hostility”

People like you simply forget and ignore. Your hate is in seeing that this country can live a better life, which did not happen with the “compassionate conservatives”.

Jan 5, 2009 - 5:06 am 56. Ann:

Bilgeman…I was going to apologize for my confusion in identifying vivo’s quote as yours (his 46, quoting your 40)…but he took care of it in his 55 by explaining my hatred for the country….man, this gets confusing:)!

Jan 5, 2009 - 5:33 am 57. Bilgeman:

#56 Ann:

No problem-o. As confused as you might have temporarily been, I doubt very much that you could possibly be as profoundly muddled as the howling wilderness empty of facts that represents Friend vivo’s and Brother ‘08ama’s contributions to the discussion.

Jan 5, 2009 - 6:49 am 58. Bilgeman:

#54 vivo:

“You are a masochist”

Manifestly…I actually attempt to have rational discussions with folks who hold differing opinions than mine.

“…you enjoy the pain of being told all the mess Bush created.”

No, I actually enjoy watching the reaction when people are challenged to think about the unsupported nonsense they spout.
Especially when they may never have actually been challenged to do so.

(You’ve got me backward, chummie, I’m a sadist…you’re a projecting masochist. I am not the one who heaves-to on PJM’s comment board and runs an unsupported “BDS flag” up my jack-staff…I’m the chap with the carronade who touches off the canister-shot at it, see?).

“I’m not going to waste my time telling you what everybody knows.”

Yes…quite.
Well thanks ever so much for taking time out from your busy schedule to drop in here. I think I can speak for many of us when I say how thrilled we have been to read your copy.

(Can’t find your DVD of “W”, can you?).

Pretty lame, I could reel off half a dozen things Bush has done poorly…and on the whole, I LIKE the guy!

“Live with it”.

Oh I shall. And may I say that my exchange with you has been both entertaining and enriching…on many different levels.

Would you do me a teensy favor though?

Check on our comrade, ‘08ama, wilya?
I’m rather worried about not having heard back from him.

I would never ever, forgive myself if I were to have caused him to trip a mental breaker or something and have him found in the corner of a Starbuck’s by the Rescue Squad, sitting, with soiled trousers, over a laptop with a dead battery and a now ice-cold chai tea latte to hand after Lord knows how long…

Jan 5, 2009 - 7:13 am 59. WR Jonas:

Our border security has deteriorated significantly since Ramos and Campeon were convicted and sentenced. Our immigration agents and Border Patrol are fully aware that they could be destroyed by one tiny misstep. And for that they ignore many things and side with caution where they might exercise some authority. When enforcers know they are being scrutinized for insignificant legalities they become less effective.
For these reason President Bush must pardon these men to restore some semblance of Justice regarding border enforcement.

Jan 5, 2009 - 10:11 am 60. David W. Lincoln:

John Walker Lindh, a lost kid? Who is kidding whom?

Frankly letting people off the hook because of their age is the worst form of child abuse.

Jan 5, 2009 - 10:32 am 61. Cybergeezer:

Bush should “preemptively” pardon Barack Obama for being the Dumocratic Dunce he will prove to be.

Jan 5, 2009 - 6:34 pm 62. Poppy Bison:

CAMPEAN AND RAMOS PARDONED AND FULLY CLEARED OF ALL CHARGES. BOTH TO RECEIVE ALL BACK PAY.

Jan 9, 2009 - 1:09 pm 63. sbgh:

About Pollard…

Granted he is branded as “traitor” and, from the perspectives shown, deserves a full punishemnt.

However, if we compare his crime to anyone else with a similar crime, how does the punishment compare?

I challenge anyone out there to find any other spy or traitor, if you will (and I am sure there must be others who have done crime of this magnitude) and compare their punishment to Pollard.

If there is any other spy that received worse list it! if not, than wouldn’t this qualify as discrimination?

Of course, at the end of the day it doesn’t matter, its up to the person sitting in the White house on his way out the door to decide who will be released and who not but still, everyone has an opinion.

Jan 17, 2009 - 1:12 pm

Write a Comment

Name:	(required, displayed)
Email:	(required, not publicized)
URL:	(optional, displayed)
Comments: