Pressure on Honduras May Lead to Zelaya’s Return
The Obama administration has yet to reveal its legal rationale for not supporting the Honduran Constitution.
The reports coming out of Honduras have been confusing and conflicting. There has been little media coverage in the United States, even though the U.S. Government has injected itself head over heels into the continuing crisis, and even though what happens in Honduras may well presage what happens elsewhere. The way the situation is developing, it seems very likely that the consequences will be adverse. There may be some small glimmers of hope, but the path is still very rocky.
It was reported earlier by Hondudiario, a newspaper in Honduras, that the Department of Political Affairs of the UN issued a report concluding the the ouster of former President Zelaya was consistent with the Honduran Constitution. The U.S. Library of Congress produced an earlier study arriving at the same conclusion. A translation of the Hondudiario article is at la Gringa’s blog.
There was some question about the provenance of the Hondudiario article, and on October 14, the secretary general of the UN claimed that the report was only the view of one of many consultants from whom the UN hears frequently. It was also stated that, in the view of the UN, that the ouster of Zelaya was unlawful remains unchanged:
[T]he UN position on the legality of Mr. Zelaya’s removal was clearly articulated by General Assembly Resolution 63/301 adopted on 1 July, which “condemns the coup d’état in the Republic of Honduras that has interrupted the democratic and constitutional order and the legitimate exercise of power in Honduras.
One might wonder how much legal analysis was involved in the UN determination, made three days after the “coup.” Wondering is about all there is to do, since no such analysis has been made public even yet, more than three months after the “coup.”
As of October 17, the “negotiations” appeared to have little chance of success, although the parties are evidently continuing to talk. According to Zelaya, “the dialogue is in suspense … until the other side adopts a reasonable stance.”
As the negotiations recessed on October 17 several points of contention remained. President Micheletti was willing to have the question of Zelaya’s reinstatement, a constitutional issue, answered by the Supreme Court, which is charged with interpretation of the Honduran Constitution. Although rejected by Zelaya as “absurd,” that appears, to me at least, to be a “reasonable stance.”
Zelaya insisted that the question be answered by the Congress, apparently as a political matter. Although the Congress voted for Zelaya’s ouster 123 to 5, the continuing pressures on the country may cause some members of the Congress to have second thoughts. Zelaya has set several deadlines for the “negotiations” to bear fruit, the most recent deadline being Monday, October 19.
President Micheletti and his government have been negotiating under tremendous external pressure, which has hardened the position of Zelaya and his Chavista supporters. The United States and other Zelaya backers have already clamped down hard on Honduras with economic and diplomatic sanctions, and on October 17 Zelaya demanded more of the same from the OAS. He stated, “they can perfectly well establish tougher trade and economic measures, which the United States would comply with immediately.”
The six ALBA nations — Venezuela, Bolivia, Cuba, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Honduras, Dominica, Saint Vincent, and Antigua and Barbuda – announced plans “to apply economic and commercial sanctions against the regime that came to power as a result of a coup.” They had already been applying such sanctions, and I don’t know whether additional sanctions are contemplated, what they might be or whether the announcement was merely intended as a reaffirmation of solidarity with Zelaya. Honduras has already been pretty much beaten down and might even be willing to accept the conditional reinstatement of Zelaya to have the sanctions lifted. Whether Zelaya would honor whatever commitments he may make or may have made is another question. An answer is presented by la Gringa here, and it is a sad one. Quoting briefly from the article:
Zelaya’s supporters continually threaten to disrupt the election campaign, not allow distribution of election materials, and block voting if their leader is not reinstated in the next few days.
Telesur reports that Zelaya has said that neither he nor the resistencia are going to recognize the November 29 elections. In the same article he states that he is a democrat and he supports elections.
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Dan Miller graduated from Yale University in 1963 and from the University of Virginia School of Law in 1966. He lives in a rural area in Panama.
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36 Comments
1. Manny:Let’s set the facts straight about the Honduran coup d’etat: Dictator Micheletti, is just that, a dictator! Presidents are elected, this freak came to power by militarily kidnapping president Zelaya who was elected by the HOnduran people. Second, if the people really didn’t want him, there was an election coming up where they could of gotten a new president if those were their wishes.
Don’t let over-paid mouth-pieces like Lanny Davis fool you. The truth is that the the super rich of Honduras just want to keep raping the poor like they have for 500 years and they don’t want the poor to have any rights. These priviledged few were terrified by the economic empowerment that President Zelaya was providing for the under-priviledged that are under constant abuse by the likes of the apparel industry (yes, Hanes and Fruit of the Loom to be exact).
Last, I would recommend that you all read the Honduran constitution and see who wiped their butt with it and you will soon find that it was none other than these coup d’etat master-minds.
Oct 20, 2009 - 1:23 am 2. Ferdsblog:The major narrative still hasn’t acknowledged that this is a new kind of virtual imperialism, an offensive by Chavez to take over a country that does not want him. The lines could not be more starkly drawn in this case. What Hondurans should be doing is rallying more moral support from other likely targets of this kind of assault, and from legislatures in those countries (the UN vehicle for virtual imperialism is a club of executives not legislatures). Israel, Taiwan. The opposition legislatures in Bolivia, Ecuador, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatemala etc need to be speaking in association against this kind of assault. At least the opposition in the US finally has some inkling of what is going on.
Manny’s comments above completely ignore Zelaya’s personal history including outright looting of the Honduran treasury. If he is worried about Michelletti he should support elections on November 29.
Oct 20, 2009 - 6:55 am 3. Joe:I think it is pretty obvious that a free and open election should be held to decide this matter. Zelaya sounds like a slick piece of work who is after one thing, Power! And he receives encouragement from his buddy Chavez. The fact that the US has sided with Zelaya should come as no surprise, since the administration sounds like it is full to the brim with far leftlies with Marxist sympathies.
Oct 20, 2009 - 7:07 am 4. macko:manny,
Oct 20, 2009 - 7:50 am 5. tommyd:please provide highlights from the honduran constitution that back up your statements. otherwise I believe your’re talking out your arse.
#1 Manny obviously wouldn’t know the truth if it bit him where his head is obviously residing. (his a**)
And just in case some here have not noticed, there is a strong presence of leftist liars on pjm now. You can easily identify them as their post scream their pathetic leftist dogma but never offer any thing in way of facts backing up their ideological agenda.
They spout leftist talking points or launch baseless attacks against anything not of the left.
They offer nothing, they attempt to convince others to follow them yet they offer no real solutions to anything other than if you follow the way of the left everyone will be elevated to a kind of Utopian level somehow. It is like magic, and most people are smart enough to know that if it sounds to good to be true well, it probably is not true.
It has never worked anywhere before and it won’t work here now.
Does anyone really believe that castro’s or Kim Jong’s revolutions were “for the good of the people”?
How about Stalin’s or Mao’s great revolutions for the people.
Right ,and what do these people have in common? They lived under suppression and in squalor ever since.
Freedom of Speech? no
Freedom of the press? no
Freedom to own and have property rights? no
Freedom to worship religion of their own choosing? no
Name me any freedoms the leftist offer to “let” you have, please .
Look at what Chavez has done, look where Obama is trying to go. They are one in the same and they are but one degree of separation removed from the actual dictators of our time.
The first poster in this thread is a prime example of a ideological driven leftist liar.
Read their post, they are void of anything other than baseless attacks and leftist rhetoric.
They have nothing to offer a free man or woman.
And yes I have posted in great lengths at pjm on my thoughts on the Honduran situation.
Oct 20, 2009 - 7:52 am 6. ab:Manny is just another leftist useful tool pushing the leftist agenda.
Manny, Manny: Such a powerful argument: “Dictator” and “freak”, etc. Although totally overwhelmed by your eloquent and persuasive words, I still want to, albeit most timidly – if you let me, that is – say the folowing. When I saw Mr. Micheletti on TV, I saw nothing abnormal or deformed about him. Mr. Zeleya is the one more likely fitting the description of a freak, being preoccupied with the idea of his power and having the most bizzare delusions about his imagined adversaries outside the Brazilian embassy, employng rather bizzare methods to oust him. Talk about a freak! It also seems that he fits the definition of at least a would be dictator, as he is the one who wants to remain in power even though the Honduran Constitution prohibits it. If it were not so sad and did not have trully a tragic deimension, Mr. Zeleya’s performance would be, in a farcical way, funny. As I understand it, Manny, Mr. Zeleya was deposed by a constitutional process, by constitutionally valid institutions and Mr. Micheletti is merely a caretaker president who cannot and will not run in the next election. But, Manny, I can see why you feel free to abandon reason in presenting your argument when the weight of the Americam administration, using very similar line of (equally persuasive) arguing as you, is behind you.
Oct 20, 2009 - 8:02 am 7. Bilgeman:#1 Manny:
“Dictator Micheletti, is just that, a dictator! Presidents are elected, ”
Really, Manny? Didn’t you get the memo?
“Telesur reports that Zelaya has said that neither he nor the resistencia are going to recognize the November 29 elections. In the same article he states that he is a democrat and he supports elections.”
I guess it’s Presidents are elected, unless they are Leftists, in which case, it’s perfectly okay for them to be Selected by the Congress, eh?
“Zelaya insisted that the question be answered by the Congress, apparently as a political matter. Although the Congress voted for Zelaya’s ouster 123 to 5, the continuing pressures on the country may cause some members of the Congress to have second thoughts.”
Kinda blows a hole is your entire argument, doesn’t it?
“The truth is that the the super rich of Honduras just want to keep raping the poor like they have for 500 years and they don’t want the poor to have any rights. These priviledged few were terrified by the economic empowerment that President Zelaya was providing for the under-priviledged that are under constant abuse by the likes of the apparel industry (yes, Hanes and Fruit of the Loom to be exact).”
Thanks for the free advertising, you can’t go wrong buying underwear. It’s not like you won’t use it, right?
And as far as the rest of your rant goes, if it really WAS the same old corrupt class oligarchy that it has been for the past 500 years, Zelaya wouldn’t be shooting off his soup-cooler to his fellow Socialists, he’d be worm food by now.
Prediction: If Zelaya crawls back in through the window after he’s been thrown out the door, he’ll leave the Presidential office in a pine box.
Don’t forget that El Salvador is just to the south, and they don’t want or need a nest of Commiesymps skulking around and stirring up trouble just over the border.
The Salvadorans should remember how to take care of Marxists.
Oct 20, 2009 - 8:20 am 8. bobby gibson:First they (communist) came for us in Honduras with their chains of slavery. They already have their eyes on the United States including you, Nanny.
Oct 20, 2009 - 9:17 am 9. Dr. Bukk:If they (communist) can be stopped here, you may be able to save the US constitution, the rule of law, and your freedom.
Where is Honduras located? If you live in Fort Worth, Texas, the capital of Honduras is nearer to you than New York City, and about the same distance as San Francisco, California. That is not very far for a missile to fly.
Why does Hugo Chavez want tiny poor Honduras? Does he want our bananas? We already know that he has plans to import nuclear technology from Iran, and missiles from North Korea. He is using his stooge Zelaya to obtain a northern base from which to threaten the United States.
Sleep well!
Viva Honduras!!!
bobbyhonduras@yahoo.com
Manny, did you know that Zelaya tried to hold a referendum to give himself another term in office, which is against the Honduran constitution? Did you know the president does not have the authority to call for any referendum unilaterally? Did you know that Chavez printed the ballots in Venezuela? Did you know Zelaya and his thugs tried to break into the storage building to retrieve those ballots after the military had confiscated them by order of the congress?
Did you know that Chavez and Zelaya’s supporting radio station have started blaming Jews for the country’s problems? Did you know that Zelaya was profiting from, and facilitating the drug trade, and raided the treasury?
How many in Honduras will die because Obama is a Marxist and has endeavored to destabilize this poor country.
Thank you PJM and Dan Miller for bringing more attention to this very alarming situation.
Oct 20, 2009 - 9:38 am 10. deguello:Rationale MR Miller? They don’t respect hteir own nation’s constitution.How do you expect them to respect Honduras’?
Oct 20, 2009 - 11:21 am 11. eor:Obama is backing the wannabe dictator in Honduras because he expects to head this country for life, as a………dictator! There is no doubt in my mind.
Oct 20, 2009 - 12:08 pm 12. savage24:Why doesn’t the White House honor the Honduras Constitution? A better question would be, why doesn’t the White House and Congress honor the American Constitution? The only answer I can come up with is, this bunch are not Americans! Time to get rid of them all.
Oct 20, 2009 - 12:24 pm 13. Exactly!:My opinion:
Legal Rationale? None
Oct 20, 2009 - 1:10 pm 14. myth buster:Real Rationale? Drugs
Hey Manny, I suppose Gerald Ford was a dictator, too, seeing as he became President of the US without ever being elected President or Vice President.
Oct 20, 2009 - 1:41 pm 15. Tin Kicker:Hey Manny – According to your diatribe, Zelaya should be reinstalled as President of Honduras. If you could take the time to stop drinking the kool-aid and stop reading all that leftist propaganda, you might take the time to read the Honduran Constitution – It is available in English. Pay close attention to the following:
Article 239 — No citizen that has already served as head of the Executive Branch can be President or Vice-President.
Whoever violates this law or proposes its reform, as well as those that support such violation directly or indirectly, will immediately cease in their functions and will be unable to hold any public office for a period of 10 years….”
Now, having taken the time to read this do you really think that a Country’s Constitution does not matter and can just be ignored? Of course I cannot blame you, if you are an American, as we see that all the time, in particular our last President and current President. Neither one knew we had a Constitution, and if that is your background……..you have my sympathy. You really need to get out of the box and read both the Constitution of the United States and the Honduran Constitution to see how these governments should work.
As for returning Zelaya to office, this would certainly make some countries happy, like Brazil, Venezuela, Nicaragua, and, oh yes, don’t forget the United States (Obama administration), but then again, this is really not about making anyone (countries included) happy. This is all about following the country’s Constitution as written, not as somebody “thinks it should be.”
Oct 20, 2009 - 3:01 pm 16. RW:Honduras has elections all set for next month. This is a problem. It completely messes with the leftist plan to take over power in Honduras and become President for life. And both Obama and Chavez have a problem with that.
Oct 20, 2009 - 3:19 pm 17. Dan Miller:Fate has not been smiling on Honduras. Today, there was massive flooding on the Atlantic side, with “24 hours of rain, much of it very heavy, resulting in a total of 11 inches (28 cm.). Transit between Tela and La Ceiba was halted for a few hours yesterday because of flooded roads. Ten families were evacuated in La Ceiba. . . . There has been a lot of crop damage. Landslides and fallen trees were also a problem.”
I wonder how many more problems the country can take. Will the United States pitch in with humanitarian aid, or is that out of the question?
Oct 20, 2009 - 3:26 pm 18. Vaughn:Obama doesn’t respect his own constitution, how can one expect this Kenyon to show any consideration for Hondura’s
Oct 20, 2009 - 3:27 pm 19. David W. Lincoln:Dan, I am thinking that the willingness of the US government to send humanitarian aid to Honduras is matched by the willingness of Muslim countries to accept humanitarian aid from Israel.
Which raises a question: Would Honduras, Taiwan & Israel (who stuck together in sticking up for Micheletti), amongst others, recognize a US government in exile? For given the shenanigans listed here: http://guidoromero.wordpress.com/2009/10/19/the-next-world-war/ Washington is as reformable as a terminally ill patient is treatable. Not just Washington, but also the allies of those deformed souls who have their paws on the levers of power inside the beltway.
Oct 20, 2009 - 4:03 pm 20. Dan Miller:UPDATE ON HONDURAS
Things still seem to be pretty much in stalemate, but Washington may (or may not) be starting to think about maybe recognizing the November elections regardless of whether Zelaya is reinstated. Meanwhile, the roller coaster ride continues.
“Micheletti proposed yesterday that both the court and the congress provide reports and that the six negotiators have the final say based on those reports. While that sounds like a compromise to me, not too surprisingly, it was reported quite differently by the Zelaya’s side and the international media.” The Zelaya side complained that the talks have “stagnated due to delay tactics by Roberto Micheletti and whined to the OAS to step in with a ruling when they meet on Wednesday. ‘We won’t return to meet until we receive a proposal we consider serious and constructive. . .’”
There is also an article about brutal repression in Honduras back in 2007, under then President Zelaya. And finally, it has been suggested by one of Zelaya’s negotiators, Patty Rodas, that she should be permitted to run for president and continue the fight for the constitutional changes which got Zelaya booted out in June. No matter that she declared her candidacy “two months after the deadline to file as a candidate and the day after the ballots were sent to print.”
“She [also] says that they will not recognize elections unless President Zelaya is restored and then she goes on to repeat 3 or 4 more times that they will not recognize elections. Her platform would be to continue with the constitutional assembly.”
“She says the most important thing is to restore the president and continue with the constitutional assembly project.”
Oct 21, 2009 - 7:00 am 21. Dan Miller:Roman Catholic Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga “of Tegucigalpa is warning that his nation may be heading towards a Venezuelan-style regime.”
“‘The reality in Honduras is, there is a constitution here,’ he said, defending the constitutional removal of former President Manuel Zelaya from office in June. ‘Everything was done according to our laws, our constitution.’ Implicitly rebuking the Obama administration, he added, ‘But the rest of the world wants to think of things as they want it done. And this is the problem.’
“The prelate– who is known for his devotion to the poor and serves as president of Caritas Internationalis– joked, ‘I was accused of being a liberation theologian, and now I am accused of being a coup plotter.’
“‘I am the same person,” he continued. ‘I have not changed, but it all depends upon the sunglasses people have.’ “
Oct 21, 2009 - 7:08 am 22. Dan Miller:Roman Catholic Cardinal Oscar Rodriguez Maradiaga “of Tegucigalpa is warning that his nation may be heading towards a Venezuelan-style regime.”
“‘The reality in Honduras is, there is a constitution here,’ he said, defending the constitutional removal of former President Manuel Zelaya from office in June. ‘Everything was done according to our laws, our constitution.’ Implicitly rebuking the Obama administration, he added, ‘But the rest of the world wants to think of things as they want it done. And this is the problem.’
“The prelate– who is known for his devotion to the poor and serves as president of Caritas Internationalis– joked, ‘I was accused of being a liberation theologian, and now I am accused of being a coup plotter.’
“‘I am the same person,’ he continued. ‘I have not changed, but it all depends upon the sunglasses people have.’”
Oct 21, 2009 - 7:10 am 23. Ruvy:Dan,
I’m a Brooklyn boy by birth. I never forgot that baseball bats are not just for playing baseball. I never forgot the uses of a gun. It strikes me that the simplest solution here is to blow Zelaya away and tell anyone who wants to invade that they face the same fate. Honduras isn’t Israel, but the Hondurans have a strong sense of national pride – otherwise Michelleti would have been kicked out by now.
Firm action is usually the best action, and when the cow attempts to compromise with the slaughterer, the cow inevitably dies.
Oct 21, 2009 - 11:41 am 24. Dan Miller:There has now been a different sort of “coup” in neighboring Nicaragua. Apparently, it was accomplished by a form of packing of the Supreme Court, which then issued a ruling that, contrary to Article 147 of the Nicaraguan Constitution which bars re-election of a sitting president or vice president and limits a president to a total of two terms, President Ortega can stand for reelection.
“The chief justice of Nicaragua’s Supreme Court said Tuesday that a ruling by several of his colleagues nullifying term limits on elected officials represents ‘legal anarchy.’
“Manuel Martinez told reporters that the ruling is illegal in terms of the manner in which the quorum on the high court’s Constitutional Chamber was formed.”
He said, “What happened last night was an ambush’ . . . , claiming that the Constitutional Chamber’s Liberal members were not informed in time to take part.”
“He was reacting to the Constitutional Chamber’s decision to declare ‘inapplicable’ the constitutional article that would keep President Daniel Ortega from seeking a second consecutive term Ortega had previously tried to get the constitution amended, but had been “unable to obtain the 56 votes [legislative] needed to allow a constitutional reform in Congress.”
Meanwhile as to Honduras, the U.S. State Department — never willing to allow a crisis to be abated — today revoked more visas to put additional pressure on the Honduran Government. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Oct 21, 2009 - 2:30 pm 25. JP49:There is one answer that comes to mind for the question why this administration is not supporting the Honduran people instead of supporting Zelaya. Obama knows his days are numbered. He knows he is trampling on our constitution. So Zelaya does it and he turns a blind eye and endorses him because he doesn’t respect or following our constitution. I say he isn’t a natural born citizen. I have never believed he was. Of course not many are willing to bravely fight for the right to see all of his documents which he has now since becoming president, sealed.
Oct 21, 2009 - 4:07 pm 26. Dan Miller:Perhaps as part of the international pressure to be applied to Honduras, the USGS no longer reports earthquakes in Honduras.
It had not previously occurred to me that earthquakes are a political phenomenon. Way to go, fellas.
Oct 22, 2009 - 6:28 am 27. bobby gibson:I read that, since Obama’s enthronement in DC, the United States’s image has improved. Whoever said that must not be from Honduras. Obama has betrayed a good friend an faithful ally in order to please sworn enemies of The United States, freedom, and the rule of law, and almost everyone knows it. Our Ambassador here must be the most unwelcome man in this country.
Oct 22, 2009 - 7:32 am 28. Dan Miller:By the way, we had another nonearthquake last night.
Honduras seems to be fighting back at the U.N. by sending a letter from the Minister of Foreign Relations to the Secretary General.
More information, as usual, can be found here, including about the refusal of the United States to continue assisting in drug interdiction, terrorist activity and twenty-six visa cancellations, including one which had expired years ago.
Oct 22, 2009 - 4:45 pm 29. Dan Miller:The “negotiations” appear to be dead. Zelaya has rejected the Government’s most recent proposal, a compromise under which the Supreme Court and the Congress would issue decisions on Zelaya’s return and that the negotiators would then decide the issue based on those reports. Zelaya has set another “deadline” for midnight tonight. According to the Zelaya negotiators, if it is not finished by midnight, the negotiations will be “dead.”
Oct 23, 2009 - 5:56 am 30. Dan Miller:Here is a fascinating Voice of American account of efforts by the Cuban community in Miami to support the Government of Honduras.
“The ongoing political crisis in Honduras is drawing attention from Cuban-Americans in Miami, who are concerned about the spread of leftist governments in Latin American. Cuban exiles are backing the de facto government, even as Washington supports the ousted Honduran president.”
It is fascinating not only because of its content but because it comes from Voice of America. True, it points out that some of those opposing the return of Zelaya are doing so for partisan political reasons; however, the mere fact that the article appeared is something.
Oct 23, 2009 - 4:36 pm 31. Bilgeman:Dan Miller:
“True, it points out that some of those opposing the return of Zelaya are doing so for partisan political reasons; however, the mere fact that the article appeared is something.”
Only Fox News can save you now. You need to get in touch with the Fox people and co-ordinate a big, BIG anti-Obama, (NOT anti-USA) protest i Tegucigalpa.
You need VIDEO.
To their credit, Greta van Susteren has already been down there and interviewed the interim President.
The other networks in the USA are still tanked for the Alleged Hawaiian.
Only Fox will show anything remotely critical of Obama’s policies.
Fight so that democratic people in Honduras aren’t forsaken like the opposition in Iran was.
Oct 23, 2009 - 7:52 pm 32. Dan Miller:Now the U.S.” Government is sending envoys to Honduras to try to get Zelaya restored.
The U.S. could go a long way toward ending the crisis by announcing that it will recognize the November elections, with or without Zelaya. That is, however, almost certain not going to be the message from the envoys.
Oct 27, 2009 - 5:55 am 33. Dan Miller:Please close the tag in my comment #32. It should be closed following U.S.
Thanks
Oct 27, 2009 - 6:34 am 34. David W. Lincoln:Now this does not bode well: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8327196.stm
Is this the first shot of a Honduran Civil war?
Oct 27, 2009 - 7:24 am 35. Dan Miller:Here are three recent articles about the current happenings in Honduras. Things are not looking good.
When, as in the case of Honduras, the United States Government does not know what it is doing it should sit down and shut up. Enough damage has already been done.
Oct 27, 2009 - 8:34 am 36. Dan Miller:The United States Government is doing its very best to make the Honduran situation worse. Here is an update from la Gringa. I agree with her position that what the U.S. Government is doing is disgusting.
Oct 29, 2009 - 4:26 pm