Comments on: Protecting FLDS Children: The Right Thing to Do

By: Foxfier

Foxfier — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 03:27:28 +0000

Pashley-
I’m not trusting the government to “right every perceived wrong.”

I’m trusting them to enforce the LAW. Even if screwing little girls is popular. Even if throwing away little boys is popular. Even if kicking out men and redistributing their wives is popularly ignored.

If the FLDS had just waited until the girls were 18, they’d be fine.
But evidence is toward them not doing so, and thus breaking the law.

By: pashley

pashley — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 20:43:27 +0000

The real problem here is putting faith in the government to right every perceived wrong. We don’t go there, the Constitution requires the government to trust its citizens (1, 2, 4th Amendments). We especially don’t go down the route with children, relying on maternal and parental affection to get children to adulthood.

Sure, there are some scary stories about that cult. Sooner or later they internally blow up and go away. CPS is not in the job of ironing out cults, it is to help children who are in clear and immediate danger. And besides, in our culture, who would trust a bureaucrat to disguish between, say, Catholics, who under close examination are weird enough (my religion, btw), and some LDS spinoff.

By: Foxfier

Foxfier — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 20:37:05 +0000

Avril- If there was a history of abuse in my household and someone got a 911 call, then when the cops came in I lied to them and my children lied to them, and they found write ups of abuse of a sub-group of the children for religious reasons, AND my religion required an illegal activity and/or child abuse….
I would be pissed, but that’s because if I was the sort to abuse children and keep written records, I wouldn’t be very objective.

I am very much for extending the rule of law to all. That includes folks who try to hide behind religion as a reason to have sex with teenage girls, and who abandon their teenage boys to lower the competition.

Mr. Stone-
Thank you for the information; I’m trying to do a writeup on these things, and that helps a lot.

By: Mike Stone, Peterborough, England

Mike Stone, Peterborough, England — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 10:35:50 +0000

Foxfier.

No, the Atlanta case I had in mind related to some bunch called the “House of Prayer”. These were/are led by some guy named Allen who sounds to have a bit in common with that Jeffs person

Just to muddy the water, there’ also an Atlanta one called the “International House of Prayer” but I that seems ro be a different organisation.

I quite accept that the cases differ in their details, but my main point was that, despite any such differences, they all seemed to end up in much the same way – rather a case of “All roads lead to home”, though some kids might be longer getting back than others.

By: Avril

Avril — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 06:15:42 +0000

Here is the bottom line-
What if your children were removed from your home-due to a phone call from an unidentified source? What if you were prevented from seeing them, comforting them? What if it was your religious beliefs that were being questioned? It sounds so innocent when it it “those” people. If we do not extend the rule of law to all, then we cannot complain when injustice comes to our house. You see, we must be just-even when we suspect the worse case. These children will be much safer,now. But some of the girls will remain in custody. Carefully..we must allow justice to prevail in the correct manner.

By: kevin

kevin — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 04:58:02 +0000

look closely at all the females of all ages in this sect. they all share the same facial features. they are inbreds.

By: samule dhalgren

samule dhalgren — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 04:41:25 +0000

I guess that is how they do things in texas. Hey look, my great grandmaw got married at 13yo to my thirty-five year old great granpaw and I turned out just fine.

By: Foxfier

Foxfier — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 19:26:29 +0000

Mr. Stone-
bit different here because their own records show that abuse *was* happening, there is additional testimony from insiders, and former cult members say that the things being alleged are not unlikely or are the norm.

I think the Atlanta case you’re talking about is the one where they shut down the daycare on bogus charges? Not sure, from the details.

By: Mike Stone, Peterborough, England

Mike Stone, Peterborough, England — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 17:51:16 +0000

Does anyone else feel they detect a recurring pattern in all this?

I’m getting the impression that something of this kind pops up in the US every decade or two – and always with much the same results. Iirc, there was a similar business in Atlanta five or six years ago, and still another in Vermont or somewhere about 20 years before _that_. Maybe others I haven’t heard of, going back to the ones in Utah and Arizona c1950.

The common denominator is that they all seem to end the same way – with the kids going home. Its as if the Child “Protection” Services in various states can’t resist the temptation to take a short cut, by just seizing _all_ the children in the place, and sorting out abused from unabused in their own time, with any who were taken unnecessarily just having to put up with it for the sake of whoever (maybe) was being – something they aren’t under the slightest obligation to do.

This tactic never seems to work, but that doesn’t stop another bunch from trying it on a few years down the line. It’s as if there’s a certain inability to learn from experience, or at least for one state to learn from the experience of another.

By: Amphipolis

Amphipolis — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 16:14:20 +0000

The problem is that Child Protective Services also has a bad record. It is not safe to assume that government intervention will improve the children’s lives. The Government makes a very poor parent, and I do not trust Social Services to know what is best for children – especially when they seem to think that the fourth amendment does not apply to them.

Indiscriminately seizing hundreds of children based on guilt by association is a crime.