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	<title>Comments on: QUAGMIRE!</title>
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	<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/quagmire/</link>
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		<title>By: Jules Crittenden &#187; Dem Mandate</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/quagmire/comment-page-1/#comment-111712</link>
		<dc:creator>Jules Crittenden &#187; Dem Mandate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 03:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/quagmire/#comment-111712</guid>
		<description>[...] a little fast and loose. That Dem mandate expired a long time ago, around the time of the first non-binding resolution, or maybe a little later when the mandate-holders started voting warbucks. Hey, can I get a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a little fast and loose. That Dem mandate expired a long time ago, around the time of the first non-binding resolution, or maybe a little later when the mandate-holders started voting warbucks. Hey, can I get a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jules Crittenden &#187; Prosecute Him!</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/quagmire/comment-page-1/#comment-109160</link>
		<dc:creator>Jules Crittenden &#187; Prosecute Him!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Sep 2008 03:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] States senators apparently are aware that even in the Democratic-controlled Congress, given to pointless and destructive gestures, that was considered a dumb fringe idea. Too bad. As part of the new Obama aggressiveness, a rabid [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] States senators apparently are aware that even in the Democratic-controlled Congress, given to pointless and destructive gestures, that was considered a dumb fringe idea. Too bad. As part of the new Obama aggressiveness, a rabid [...]</p>
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		<title>By: REN</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/quagmire/comment-page-1/#comment-6105</link>
		<dc:creator>REN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Feb 2007 06:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/quagmire/#comment-6105</guid>
		<description>LOL, I watched the video you posted as your bonus just the other night with my kid brother. I&#039;ve had it on my hard drive for a while now. What a funny coincidence and much more interesting than what&#039;s going on in congress. Then again, I guess it exemplifies the &#039;quagmire&#039; the DEMS haphazardly jumped into.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL, I watched the video you posted as your bonus just the other night with my kid brother. I&#8217;ve had it on my hard drive for a while now. What a funny coincidence and much more interesting than what&#8217;s going on in congress. Then again, I guess it exemplifies the &#8216;quagmire&#8217; the DEMS haphazardly jumped into.</p>
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		<title>By: swilcinburn</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/quagmire/comment-page-1/#comment-6104</link>
		<dc:creator>swilcinburn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 23:18:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/quagmire/#comment-6104</guid>
		<description>Buried in this post is a fantastic moniker for our country&#039;s loyal opposition ... Dem Cong.  Or, even better, Demi Cong.  Our very own left wing insurgents!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Buried in this post is a fantastic moniker for our country&#8217;s loyal opposition &#8230; Dem Cong.  Or, even better, Demi Cong.  Our very own left wing insurgents!</p>
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		<title>By: zhombre</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/quagmire/comment-page-1/#comment-6103</link>
		<dc:creator>zhombre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 22:25:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/quagmire/#comment-6103</guid>
		<description>Yeah, Harold, you have to admit the Islamicists may have a point, that democracies are by their nature prone to dissension, the media make it impossible to prosecute a war when that war is constantly scrutinized and the reporting is distorted, and the antiwar elements in the affluent West do not have the stomach for a long war and have a marked tendency to repudiate their own society and their own leaders.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, Harold, you have to admit the Islamicists may have a point, that democracies are by their nature prone to dissension, the media make it impossible to prosecute a war when that war is constantly scrutinized and the reporting is distorted, and the antiwar elements in the affluent West do not have the stomach for a long war and have a marked tendency to repudiate their own society and their own leaders.</p>
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		<title>By: Harold Cutler</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/quagmire/comment-page-1/#comment-6102</link>
		<dc:creator>Harold Cutler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 20:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/quagmire/#comment-6102</guid>
		<description>The Democrates have developed their own quagmire by their own lack of understanding of what the original war was about.  It is a war declared by terrorists against the western world.  The msn never understood what the terrorists were trying to do and between the liberal politicians and the press we have a serious problem.  We were brilliant in Afganistan.  We stopped the training camps by Al Quida, then invading Iraq started out brilliant by isolating Iran and Syria and the Palistinians.  North Africa was being isolated and Egypt, where it all started with the Moslem Brotherhood, was changing for the better.
Then starting with Kerry, Teddy Kennedy, and other &quot;liberals&quot; and the NYT and Wapo giving the terrorists support, the terrorists have been able to regroup.
Iraq is one important battle in the international war against the Muslam terrorist groups.
Our open society is vulnerable to the terrorists and and by running away we are doing just what Ben Laden predicted.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Democrates have developed their own quagmire by their own lack of understanding of what the original war was about.  It is a war declared by terrorists against the western world.  The msn never understood what the terrorists were trying to do and between the liberal politicians and the press we have a serious problem.  We were brilliant in Afganistan.  We stopped the training camps by Al Quida, then invading Iraq started out brilliant by isolating Iran and Syria and the Palistinians.  North Africa was being isolated and Egypt, where it all started with the Moslem Brotherhood, was changing for the better.<br />
Then starting with Kerry, Teddy Kennedy, and other &#8220;liberals&#8221; and the NYT and Wapo giving the terrorists support, the terrorists have been able to regroup.<br />
Iraq is one important battle in the international war against the Muslam terrorist groups.<br />
Our open society is vulnerable to the terrorists and and by running away we are doing just what Ben Laden predicted.</p>
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		<title>By: Pat Buchanatar</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/quagmire/comment-page-1/#comment-6101</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat Buchanatar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 19:16:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/quagmire/#comment-6101</guid>
		<description>About that poll you cite here...

I have to say I&#039;m a little suspicious about a poll from an organization with the acronym POS, but digging deeper I notice a couple of disturbing features in these data.

49 % of the respondents support immediate withdrawal or a fixed timetable irrespective of stability in Iraq.

At the same time,

only 25% agreed with the statement &quot;I don&#039;t care what happens in Iraq after the US leaves, I just want the troops brought home&quot;.

So these 25% are merely moral cretins who don&#039;t even want to think about the thousands of Iraqis who put their necks on the line (literally) to help our mission succeed.

The people who worry me are the 24 % who say they DO care but want to pull the plug anyway. I don&#039;t know where to begin looking for the place in myself where I could condemn to death someone who risked their lives to help my country, and have the moral vanity to feel sorry for them AT THE SAME TIME. These 24% are not just loathsome. They are seriously jacked up as well.

The other weird data point is the 66 % of the respondents who didn&#039;t think that the US would lose its superpower status (question 14). This tells me that many (most?) of the 49% who support withdrawal are part of the 66%, and are telling themselves &quot;it&#039;s OK to lose; we&#039;re still Number One&quot;. Let&#039;s assume that we could make a compelling case for this to be false, i.e., if the US surrendered in Iraq we would become an ordinary power, like France. Would this change any of the pro-withdrawal votes? I see an opportunity for Bush here!

The foregoing assumes that the 31% who DO think we&#039;d lose our superpower status think that would be a bad thing. Some of the 31% who agree with question 14 could be liberals who want us to lose our superpower status. It would have been nice if the poll clarified this for us.

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About that poll you cite here&#8230;</p>
<p>I have to say I&#8217;m a little suspicious about a poll from an organization with the acronym POS, but digging deeper I notice a couple of disturbing features in these data.</p>
<p>49 % of the respondents support immediate withdrawal or a fixed timetable irrespective of stability in Iraq.</p>
<p>At the same time,</p>
<p>only 25% agreed with the statement &#8220;I don&#8217;t care what happens in Iraq after the US leaves, I just want the troops brought home&#8221;.</p>
<p>So these 25% are merely moral cretins who don&#8217;t even want to think about the thousands of Iraqis who put their necks on the line (literally) to help our mission succeed.</p>
<p>The people who worry me are the 24 % who say they DO care but want to pull the plug anyway. I don&#8217;t know where to begin looking for the place in myself where I could condemn to death someone who risked their lives to help my country, and have the moral vanity to feel sorry for them AT THE SAME TIME. These 24% are not just loathsome. They are seriously jacked up as well.</p>
<p>The other weird data point is the 66 % of the respondents who didn&#8217;t think that the US would lose its superpower status (question 14). This tells me that many (most?) of the 49% who support withdrawal are part of the 66%, and are telling themselves &#8220;it&#8217;s OK to lose; we&#8217;re still Number One&#8221;. Let&#8217;s assume that we could make a compelling case for this to be false, i.e., if the US surrendered in Iraq we would become an ordinary power, like France. Would this change any of the pro-withdrawal votes? I see an opportunity for Bush here!</p>
<p>The foregoing assumes that the 31% who DO think we&#8217;d lose our superpower status think that would be a bad thing. Some of the 31% who agree with question 14 could be liberals who want us to lose our superpower status. It would have been nice if the poll clarified this for us.</p>
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		<title>By: David Eaton</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/quagmire/comment-page-1/#comment-6100</link>
		<dc:creator>David Eaton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 19:02:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/quagmire/#comment-6100</guid>
		<description>I think 2 things are becoming clearer to &#039;mainstream&#039; Dem politicians.

First, opposition to the war in this country may merely reflect opposition to losing. There has always been a fringe anti-war movement, but large scale opposition shouldn&#039;t be read as being part of that. A plausible interpretation of the polling data is that the country supports doing the job that was set out, even if that wasn&#039;t all that well-defined. The American people hate losing. The smartest of the Dems realize that calling for abrupt withdrawal will feel like calling for defeat, and will hand the Democratic party a defeat in turn.

Second, the &#039;netroots&#039; notwithstanding, the Dems have a small majority, not a mandate. Stupidity and corruption can only go on for so long before incumbants will be swept out, and I think that that was done quite convincingly. However, the current group of elected officials was merely deemed less objectionable than what was already there. It seems to me that even an emphatic &quot;NO!&quot; to one side is not evidence of anything with respect to the other.

Moderate Democrats are already grumbling about not being led off the &#039;left cliff&#039;. They recognize that to cement power, they&#039;ll have to &lt;b&gt;not&lt;/b&gt; do what the last set of bums did to get thrown out.

But the &#039;roots demand more, and if not placated, promise to turn ugly. But if they are placated, they could cost Dems the White House.

It promises to be entertaining, in any case. Both major parties are so ideologically constipated that the whole process may collapse in a heap, leaving a third party candidate viable. Whether to feel cheered or despressed, I can&#039;t tell.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think 2 things are becoming clearer to &#8216;mainstream&#8217; Dem politicians.</p>
<p>First, opposition to the war in this country may merely reflect opposition to losing. There has always been a fringe anti-war movement, but large scale opposition shouldn&#8217;t be read as being part of that. A plausible interpretation of the polling data is that the country supports doing the job that was set out, even if that wasn&#8217;t all that well-defined. The American people hate losing. The smartest of the Dems realize that calling for abrupt withdrawal will feel like calling for defeat, and will hand the Democratic party a defeat in turn.</p>
<p>Second, the &#8216;netroots&#8217; notwithstanding, the Dems have a small majority, not a mandate. Stupidity and corruption can only go on for so long before incumbants will be swept out, and I think that that was done quite convincingly. However, the current group of elected officials was merely deemed less objectionable than what was already there. It seems to me that even an emphatic &#8220;NO!&#8221; to one side is not evidence of anything with respect to the other.</p>
<p>Moderate Democrats are already grumbling about not being led off the &#8216;left cliff&#8217;. They recognize that to cement power, they&#8217;ll have to <b>not</b> do what the last set of bums did to get thrown out.</p>
<p>But the &#8216;roots demand more, and if not placated, promise to turn ugly. But if they are placated, they could cost Dems the White House.</p>
<p>It promises to be entertaining, in any case. Both major parties are so ideologically constipated that the whole process may collapse in a heap, leaving a third party candidate viable. Whether to feel cheered or despressed, I can&#8217;t tell.</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Williams</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/quagmire/comment-page-1/#comment-6099</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 18:50:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/quagmire/#comment-6099</guid>
		<description>Nice photoshop, but that would maybe be better expressed as 43%. Or not.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice photoshop, but that would maybe be better expressed as 43%. Or not.</p>
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		<title>By: lbphilly</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/quagmire/comment-page-1/#comment-6098</link>
		<dc:creator>lbphilly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 18:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dev.pajamasmedia.com/blog/quagmire/#comment-6098</guid>
		<description>Ed Meese, a member of the Iraq Study Group, spoke in Philadelphia less than two weeks ago. His summary of the ISG&#039;s recommendations was much closer to something reasonable than was reported in the press, and he notes that the President is implementing about 85% of those recommendations.

Meese was volubly unhappy about the media&#039;s distortion of everything surrounding the war.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ed Meese, a member of the Iraq Study Group, spoke in Philadelphia less than two weeks ago. His summary of the ISG&#8217;s recommendations was much closer to something reasonable than was reported in the press, and he notes that the President is implementing about 85% of those recommendations.</p>
<p>Meese was volubly unhappy about the media&#8217;s distortion of everything surrounding the war.</p>
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