Pajamas Media

131 Comments

1. jvon:

Who has ever talked about “converting” Muslims? Not GWB at his bring-it-on-est talked about converting anybody.

You criticize RINOs, but you just pointed out why you yourself made a bad choice in the 2008 elections. By backing a candidate with no chance whatsoever of winning, you helped Obama get elected. Congratulations — and careful what you wish for.

Jul 15, 2009 - 1:02 am 2. t.g.:

Poor RINO, you’ld feel better if you’ld have gotten something new. But instead you gou Jimmy Carter II.

Why not take the whole obamanomics as a way to prove supply-side economics by contradiction?

If there’s nothing to trickle down the poor really get poorer; if the goverment meddles into econony all major player try to guess what’s next instead of invent new possibilities.

The next reagan revolution won’t be a revolution but merely a reminder like it worked once, it’ll work again.
Thomas

Jul 15, 2009 - 1:10 am 3. Marc Malone:

Are you sure you’re not Dr. Ron Paul?

We Conservatives tried to warn you. There was such a din from the media that we couldn’t be heard.

Of course, you didn’t want our deeply flawed foreign policy… except you got it anyway. Kinda. You did get Obama’s policy of talk, talk, talk. How’s that working out for you? You will get your isolation, eventually, because we’ll be too broke to do anything. Silver linings, what?

Jul 15, 2009 - 1:40 am 4. Meryl:

I certainly did not vote “for” John McCain.

But I most certainly marked the spot on my ballot beside his name to vote AGAINST Col. obama.

Anyone for whom English is their mother tongue and who bothered to read and think is not surprised at what he has done (although perhaps at the speed with which he has done it, since there is apparently no effective opposition to his rule).

Those who still want to give him the benefit of the doubt are annoying.

Also annoying are those who say, “Well, gee, we didn’t know.” Sorry, but that says more about you than it does about him.

Jul 15, 2009 - 4:16 am 5. smitty:

“Some of us, particularly social libertarian RINOs and moderate independents with an isolationist bent, had grown frustrated with Republican leadership after several years of George W. Bush and GOP control of Congress.”

The tunnel vision makes one weep.
GWB and BHO both are, hopefully, the culmination of a Progressive tradition of Constitutional deconstruction.
These people slowly and with great nuance scuttle the three-branch/three-level system which, followed, would preclude or diminish the problems you cite.
My recommendation is to get some valid analysis as to the systemic problems besetting the country, so that we can reverse course away from the overt tyranny that’s just a couple of decades off.
Graphing freedom (of action) as a function of time, the country seems to trace a parabola. The slope hit zero around the 16th Amendment/Federal Reserve act, and we’re on a sad little glide slope. Bunch of wieners re-arranging the ore load on the Edmund Fitzgerald as we sail into the storm.
I could rail further, but anyone with the first shred of common sense sees where the this response is going.

Jul 15, 2009 - 4:34 am 6. cedarhill:

You know, when you look at the world through shaded lenses and are perpetually dissatisfied a sane person would change lenses. I’d suggest F-R-E-E-D-O-M lenses. It’s in the Declaration. What are libertarians without freedom?
Else, just go independently isolate yourself.

Jul 15, 2009 - 4:51 am 7. RAH:

Rino’s are just democrats with a GOP label. The problem is that they do not have any courage. If they support liberal positions socially or fiscally then they should be honest and label themselves as democrats.

As to who could make better SC nominess. . Certaintly McCain would have been no be worse than Obama with this recent nominee dishonesty displayed at the hearings.

Jul 15, 2009 - 5:05 am 8. Phil Byler:

I really don’t know who the so-called RINOs are today. There really is no RINO wing of the Republican Party.

Colin Powell? He’s a Democrat.

Jul 15, 2009 - 5:11 am 9. Terry Gain:

Jazz Shaw is wrong as usual. Obama Change is not a two edged sword. It’s one edged where everything is wrong except where he’s quietly pursuing the same policies as his ignorantly vilified (and much more manly- no sissy pitches from GWB)) predecessor.

But we do get a more in depth peak into the confused mind of Jazz Shaw than usual. with these gems.

Perhaps, we reasoned, the time had come to set aside past errors and chart a new course. We have, in some ways, gotten what we wished for. But the package came with a whole lot more.

Reason would have dictated you examine the unvetted package the nation was picking and not waste your vote on a third party candidate thus ensuring the election of the charming marxist.

We didn’t want another conservative president naming yet another SCOTUS justice who would trample civil liberties and spend their vacations chasing the godless homosexuals into reform clinics to “cure” them of their curious disorder.

Where on earth does this come from? Bush could not have done a better job than with Roberts and Alito. And your preference for Obama’s nominees over anyone McCain woud have appointed is clueless beyoond belief unless you enjoy the spectacle of a wise latina woman lying her ass off in order to be confirmed.

And then this.

We had lost patience with hawks who lived and died by the phrase “projection of American power” and saw the best recourse to intractable foreign leaders to be hundreds of thousands of American troops and a cloud of Tomahawk missiles. Perhaps — just perhaps — the Democrats were ready to usher in an America with a new and improved face.

Ah yes the new and improved face. This will appeal to those too stupid to face facts and too ignorant of history to understand what will come from the projection of weakness.

Sensible people cringe when they see Obama bow before thugs. It takes a certain kind of idiocy not to cringe when this wimp refers to the thug in charge of Iran as The Supreme Leader even as he’s brutally suppressing Iranians who want what we take for granted.

Jul 15, 2009 - 5:20 am 10. wayne:

Cedarhill…now there’s a campaign line!!

It’s about the Declaration, America!

If not for an election, then as the founding statement of the new country that comes into being when all REAL Americans finally throw that vile house of liars, thieves, and traitors in Washington DC out of OUR country.

Jul 15, 2009 - 5:27 am 11. Fred Beloit:

“And I most assuredly want a leader who seeks to live in peace with the Muslim nations of the world rather than converting them.”

Where does one begin? Well, Mr/Ms Shaw, may I ask you the name of a leader who seeks to convert Muslim nations? Please don’t say Bush. He wasn’t interested in converting any Muslim nations into Christian/Jewish ones. His interest was in the idea that democracy in nations is better for the health and security of the world than despotism. Sort of the way Obama thinks socialism is better for the nations of the world than capitalism and ignoring constitutions is better than obeying oaths to protect and defend them.

Jul 15, 2009 - 5:28 am 12. Anonymous:

So Jazz comes out of the closet as a Social Libertarian Independent Isolationist RINO.

No wonder his/her musings are incoherent, he/she is one confused little puppy.

And people wonder why I advocate repeal of the 26th amendment and raising the voting age to 25 years of age.

Jazz, put down the kiddie books and pick up Hayek. “We shall not grow wiser before we learn that much that we have done was very foolish.”

Jul 15, 2009 - 5:34 am 13. vonschtead:

Sorry Charlie. I always said that no one should be allowed to vote without some knowledge of civics and the issues. Anybody who is surprised about what the ONE is doing is either ignorant (which can be changed) or a fool (which cannot). At least some of us were informed enough to make a decision based on reality rather than “hope & change”. I just “hope” I have some “change” left in my pocket four years from now.

Jul 15, 2009 - 6:03 am 14. Ken:

Yeah, I remember well that many of us right wing rubes were warning EVERYONE about what is happening now! Yet these super smart RINO’s didn’t listen. They really have no deep felt principles anyway.

Jul 15, 2009 - 6:22 am 15. Good Lt.:

>We have, in some ways, gotten what we wished for. But the package came with a whole lot more.

How could an astute political observer who was paying even the slightest bit of attention to the warts on the Democrat Party during the Bush Administration (even in the last two years with the Democrat Congress that included Sen. Barack Obama) seem so surprised that you’re getting a liberal Congress and liberal President?

Did you look at their voting records? How could you call yourself “libertarian” and pull the lever for statists? Not that the GOP didn’t dabble in expansive statism (they did, to their and our detriment), but it’s the DEMOCRATS. They live for no other reason than to expand the reach and power of the government – “for the people.”

In a way, I’m almost glad that Obama and the Franken/Clown Congress is in charge – they’re doing such a craptastic job that they will hasten the return of the GOP. It will shake the easily-swayed from their coma and remind them that one party in America at least pays lip service to the notion of a limited government that doesn’t want to run your life and take most of what you earn. The other party eschews that notion and works to eradicate the notion of individual and financial liberty from the central government.

Jazz, old chap, you voted for the latter. You should have known better.

Jul 15, 2009 - 6:23 am 16. Laura:

If John McCain is too far to the right for you, you belong on the Huffington Post, not here.

Jul 15, 2009 - 6:31 am 17. Mick:

Honestly, you moderates are absolutely useless. You people truly think that freedom is free and that we never have to actually fight for anything. Just go ahead and come out of the closet, liberals. It’s you morons that elected comrade Obama this time around…he’s your candidate, and everything that’s happening is your fault. All because you wouldn’t stand up and fight. Cowards.

Jul 15, 2009 - 6:32 am 18. Robtron:

Are you kidding me!! You are still repeating Obama campaign lines. Respond to every international crisis with the 101st airborne? What in the hell is that? If you were paying any attention during the campaign McCain did not want to even go into Pakistan and Obama was ready to invade, as he is already doing. Next time do everyone a favor and vote for Nader. From reading your article it sounds like Nader is your man.

Jul 15, 2009 - 6:32 am 19. MarkD:

Please tell me this is a joke. Or that Jazz Shaw is a child.

Presidential elections are the choice between bad and worse. No politician cares about more than your vote and his power. The Constitution, which is supposed to protect us by limiting the Imperial state, is routinely ignored. The courts are complicit, with highly educated judges coming up with ludicrous justifications for patently illegal acts – Kelo to cite one recent and obvious “decision” to allow governmental theft.

Go ahead, pick a team to root for. Just remember both of them are busy damaging your life, property and liberty.

Jul 15, 2009 - 6:33 am 20. rbj:

The only one I heard say “convert Muslims” was Anne Coulter. And she’s basically put herself on the nutty fringe.

Personally, I voted for Sarah Palin. Both she and her running mate have kids in Iraq, so I doubt their first answer to any international crisis is the 101st Airborne. I’m tired of the Libertarian Party, who’s first answer to any international crisis is to mimic an ostrich.

Jul 15, 2009 - 6:34 am 21. Paul A'Barge:

“…yet another SCOTUS justice who would trample civil liberties and spend their vacations chasing the godless homosexuals into reform clinics to “cure” them of their curious disorder.”

I’m sorry, I must not have been paying attention. For that I humbly apologize. Can you help enlighten me? Please …

1) name the SCOTUS justice who would trample civil liberties.
2) name the SCOTUS justice who spends his vacation chasing homosexuals into clinics.
3) provide some substantiation for 1) and 2).

Hop right on it, will you?

Jul 15, 2009 - 6:39 am 22. The Monster:

“Jazz, old chap, you voted for the latter.”

No, he didn’t. By voting for neither of the top two candidates in NY, his vote didn’t affect the margin of victory for the slate of Obama electors, either for or against. He may as well not have voted at all.

That’s the structural problem with “plurality takes all” voting systems. They effectively mandate a two-party system.

Jul 15, 2009 - 6:46 am 23. ragnar:

There are no contradictions. Check your premises, starting with you cartoonish view of those who believe that prosperity at home is dependent on security abroad. Then calculate that under the present junta in the White House, we will have neither. Hmmmm… How’s Bob Barr working out for you?

Jul 15, 2009 - 6:47 am 24. Frank:

News flash RINO breath; the system is rigged. There only two viable teams. Pick one or the other and man up. By throwing your vote down the toilet on a fantastical third option you either sat out or tacitly voted for the winner. Nice going. And now you have the gall to whine about the result? Most of us tolerate the fact that the only choice we ever really get is the lesser of two evils.

The only thing in the middle of the road is yellow stripes and roadkill.

And btw, there are plenty of little L libertarians in the conservative tent. Yeah it isn’t perfect but at least it’s in the game. Until the DEM/REP duopoly crumbles the sooner the big L liberatarians realize it is the closest thing they’ll find to a natural home the sooner we can finish off unabated liberalism for good. In the meantime you are nothinhg more than side show carnival barker.

Jul 15, 2009 - 6:47 am 25. Sapwolf:

Bush put TWO excellent libertarian/conservative interpretationists on the SCOTUS. It was the biggest bright spot of his administration, along with protecting us from another domestic terrorist attack.

The only two GOP national politicians who can be trusted to pick interpretationists for the courts are Newt and Sarah.

Libertarians should start doing their homework. Palin’s beliefs most closely resemble theirs. She is a 2nd and 10th Amendment executive, and very focused on the Constitutions of both Alaska and USA. The only possible issue is how interventionist would she be. We know she loves and supports our military, but that does not mean that she would galavant all over the globe like what we did in Iraq. Regarding illegal immigration, NOBODY is gonna touch that, not even the Dems at this time. It is WAY too hot for tackling that one politically. We will have to at some point though.

She is positioned well to eventually inherit (no hijacking) the Tea Party Movement of less federal spending, lower taxes, limited government, and upholding the Constitution.

She is a libertarian/conservative who happens to be Christian. And, Alaska is a libertarian state, ranked 5th from the bottom in its religiosity.

Jul 15, 2009 - 6:48 am 26. Bilgeman:

Mr. Shaw:
“I chose to support Bob Barr in the last election, being dissatisfied with my other options, and I have no regrets on that score.”

Well, good for you. I too voted for Barr to protest RINO McCain, and I too have no regrets about doing so.

Good Lt. has exactly the right of it when he states:

“In a way, I’m almost glad that Obama and the Franken/Clown Congress is in charge – they’re doing such a craptastic job that they will hasten the return of the GOP.”

A great deal of the rest of your post indicates that you seem to have internalized as truth wha the Liberal Borg MSM caricaturizes as the nature of the GOP.

Jul 15, 2009 - 6:49 am 27. John:

What’s that story about the scorpion and the frog again? Or the parable about “The perfect is the enemy of the good”? By convincing yourself that there was no difference between the two parties, you managed to maintain your intellectual purity in the 2008 election at the cost of the programs and spending plans offered up by Obama and the Democrats in 2009

The unfortunate thing is experience is the best teacher, and voters in their late 20s weren’t even alive when Jimmy Carter’s economy was at its worst in the late 1970s and into the first years of the 80s, before the Reagan reforms took effect. So young voters at least have the excuse of naivety, though that goes out the window if they see what’s happening and still vote for hope and change in 2010 and 2012.

Jul 15, 2009 - 6:50 am 28. Voice:

Admitting that you proudly wasted your vote by pulling the trigger for Bob Barr automatically makes you ineligible to complain about anything. Virtually nobody voted for McCain. You either voted for 0bama or against 0bama. And Jazz voted for 0bama.
Moderates and RINO’s are merely democrats who don’t appreciate paying higher taxes. They are cowards to their core and should be treated as traitors by angry, fed-up, patriotic conservatives in our effort to retake America. And, btw, the 101st Airborne is the only kind of diplomatic relations that despots ever respect. Grow a pair, Jazz.

Jul 15, 2009 - 6:50 am 29. trangbang68:

What a fool!

Jul 15, 2009 - 6:54 am 30. Bill C:

I chose to support Bob Barr in the last election…

Why didn’t you say that you are someone who doesn’t understand the American political system? Just so you know we have two parties and you are supposed to pick one of them and then work within it to push the issues and nominate the candidate who best reflects your views. Third party candidates do nothing but remove your influence from the party in which you might have a chance at affecting change.

Jul 15, 2009 - 6:54 am 31. Spider79:

I don’t get it.

By its very definition a RINO is not really a Republican, they just say they are. You voted for Bob Barr (not sure I would admit that).

Anybody with half a brain knew exactly what we would get with “The One”.

So who should be careful what they wish for?

Perhaps your essay should be pointed to Rinos AND Dems. And don’t forget people who wasted their vote on Bob Barr.

Jul 15, 2009 - 6:55 am 32. scott in phx az:

The biggest problem with the Libertarian’s (full disclosure: I’m a registered Libertarian in AZ) is that they IGNORE REALITY.

Any breathing human being should have seen that Obama is an out and out marxist and that the ONLY choice to make in the 2008 election was McCain/Palin. I would have voted for David Duke had he been the Republican nominee over Obama and slept well with my choice.

As Rand said in AS “brother, you asked for it”.

ps: the US isn’t trying to convert Muslims, but they’re at war with us. And in 15 years when the Muslim population in the US is at the same percentage as it is in Europe you’re going to be wondering why life in America is so much worse than it is now.

Jul 15, 2009 - 6:56 am 33. Brad:

Unrelated question: can somebody point to libertarians that evolved independently of a Judeo-Christian world-view and its Anglo descendents? It seems they show up after all the heavy lifting has been done by others

Jul 15, 2009 - 7:04 am 34. J:

If you had only looked beyond the pretty face and soft voice…..done research, in other words. This man obama, was an open book for those who chose to read it. His actual words in his book, his life experiences, his voting records, the causes he championed, you only had to look to know what you were getting. And because you fell for the guy and did not do the work required before you voted, you have condemned my beautiful country to an awful, wasting illness.

Jul 15, 2009 - 7:05 am 35. NMP:

“We didn’t want another conservative president naming yet another SCOTUS justice who would trample civil liberties and spend their vacations chasing the godless homosexuals into reform clinics to “cure” them of their curious disorder. We had lost patience with hawks who lived and died by the phrase “projection of American power” and saw the best recourse to intractable foreign leaders to be hundreds of thousands of American troops and a cloud of Tomahawk missiles.”

Paranoid much? Or just unintended consequences of being addicted to porn?

Jul 15, 2009 - 7:06 am 36. nob:

This article, commentary, essay or whatever really says nothing to condemn a single Obama agenda item. And I believe that moderate McCain would have been 99% better for America than socialist Obama. This “whatever” is meaningless media for “gee Obama isn’t working out afterall who would have known?”.

Jul 15, 2009 - 7:10 am 37. The Skizzerd of Waz:

Who ever said Dubya was a conservative?

Jul 15, 2009 - 7:12 am 38. Wil Golden:

We spend two years warning you.
We show you clips of the “pastor” he listened to for twenty years.
We show you his friends and his supporters.
We give proof, not supposition, not inuendo, PROOF that he is more radical than any other serious candidate in the histoy of the country.

Do you listen? Naw, “those cwaaazy KKKonservatives are just being paranoid!”

You bought the shoe. Wear it.

Jul 15, 2009 - 7:14 am 39. Holdfast:

“what’s a libertarian independent isolationist to do?”

Maybe grow up and stop being such an *sshole? I had no particular McCain love, but you helped hand the presidency to the most most radical leftist in US history. Well done.

Jul 15, 2009 - 7:16 am 40. Robert O. Lopez:

Give me an effing break, Mr. Shaw. To Hades with you! What problem exactly did you have with John McCain? He had almost 30 years in Congress and had never been reckless with the use of armed force.

You screwd up, and now you want to feel victimized. You brought this on yourself. I have no doubt that in 2012 you’ll have lots of cute, perky witty things to say against Sarah Palin, Mike Huckabee, Mitt Romney and whoever else emerges as a contender. We’ll get 4 more years of the Democrat hegemony and you’ll claim again that you were tricked.

To be honest, I like dealing with far leftists better than moderates like the author of this article. At least obsessed Palin-hating environmentalist Communist oversexed antiwar Obamagasmic liberals have a point of view and go down with their ship! And at least people like me, the Bible-thumping Jesus-loving flag-humping antitax, unborn-defending, married, missionary-position-with-man-on-top-and-no-damned-condoms-having, prudish Army hacks who go to bed at 10 on Saturday so we’re up on time to make our fundie service on Sunday and pray in groups for America-haters to be smitten in a war of good vs. evil, can be counted on to get to the polls and vote against racial demagoguery and trillion-dollar deficits on one November Tuesday every four years!

Moonbats, wingnuts, whatever — at least we who fit the political stereotypes stand somewhere on the spectrum and won’t move. Next time before you sly, clever moderates write us off as wackos and get embarrassed, just remember there are still more of the “extremists” than there are of you!

The latest Gallup showed that 40% of Americans are conservatives (like me!), 21% of Americans are liberals (like those moonbats I love to torture), and fewer than 2 in 5 Americans fit this “moderate”, namby-pamby, “I can’t decide whether to send the Marines or just ship a bouquet out there”, “let’s have a discussion about race,” “in a way both sides are right” useless MODERATE or INDEPENDENT label. Reading articles like this one makes me want to go out and hug whatever crazy leftist is out there hugging a tree. At least we can have an argument instead of pretending we’re in agreement when we really aren’t!

Jul 15, 2009 - 7:17 am 41. NMP:

By the way, Isolationism ended when airplanes and surface-to=surface missiles were invented.

One reason why I am reject Libertarianism is that they’ll claim Isolationism while at the same time do dirty dealings done dirt cheap with dictators, kleptomaniacs and genocidal tyrants murders because the profit margin is greater.

I have a relative who is Libertarian and conducts dirty dealings with China because his personal profit is greater yet he is completely unaware of the real possibility that because he, like many Libertarians, are doing so much dirty dealings with China that his own sons will find themselves eating lots of humble pie made out of dirty cardboard manufactured in the world’s lone superpower called China.

And no amount of porn is going to help my relative or his children or the all Libertarians forget their misery.

Jul 15, 2009 - 7:18 am 42. Fizz Shawl:

The oh so faux-informed Jazz gives good reason why some shouldn’t be allowed to vote. He took a loaded ballot, put it to his head and pulled the trigger. That irresponsibility does get him what he asked for. Unfortunately, he committed republic attempted-suicide for others in the process. ‘A republic, if you can keep it’…well, it worked for a while, when wisdom meant understanding the government was specifically not in charge of most tough choices that individuals faced, and is in charge of protecting our shores, whatever the costs.

Those against the original meanings of the Constitution always slide towards communism or other version of totalitarianism. The Founders knew this and thought they had a pretty good document, then the 16th Amendment lit a path of eventual scorched-USA. Congress and the President then became either dyke-holders or open-taps to the flow of giant government. As the old joke goes, at that point, we’d settled what we were, we were only arguing the price. We now have a solidified leadership of wealth-eaters making decisions towards the destruction of the wealth-creators.

And all that Jazz got out of it was that W was force-converting Muslims to a different religion. Infantile voting choice, with predictable results. Jazz isn’t mature enough to vote, and neither was the majority. So we get the government we invited and deserve. Like Venezuela! Only, we were so much more…we knew it, and once were proud of that. Now, ironically, it’s the ‘Ashamed’ tour, stealing and enslaving.

Jul 15, 2009 - 7:22 am 43. Avoid Libertarians:

Ayn Rand abhorred the Libertarian Party, and so should you! It’s just a political home for self-indulgent dweebs. I’ll leave you with this joke, as told by Jonah Goldberg of National Review:

Q: What the hardest thing about being a Libertarian?
A: Telling your parents you’re gay.

Jul 15, 2009 - 7:26 am 44. BettyBlue:

We’ve got a trillion-dollar deficit, the mullahs are killing protesters in Iraq (which Obama refuses to condemn), North Korea is threatening us with missiles, and may have launched an actual cyber attack against us; we’re getting a rotten socialized health care program and alienating our allies while our president bows to Saudi potentates, and thinks he can control Moscow. . but whoop-tee-doodle-doo, hey, homosexuals aren’t being forced into clinics to change their sexual orientation (like they were before?), and all those narsty hawks aren’t making us go to war in the Middle-East! Remember, Islam is a religion of peace!

Way to go, RINO’s (and Jazz). Thanks for helping us get the worse presidency to date.

Jul 15, 2009 - 7:31 am 45. theworldisnotenough:

The thing that libertarians NEVER seem to grasp is what they want does not exist. Oh where will you find the socially liberal fiscal conservative? We are told they exist in the Northeast. Arlen Specter, Susan Collins, and Olympia Snowe are such creatures, oh wait they voted for the bailout! News flash libertarians: social conservatives are inherently more fiscally conservative than social liberals have been and always will be, grow up, join the party and support more libertarian leaning candidates in the primaries (http://www.schiffforsenate.com/)

Parting shot. Social policy in this country has always been formed by the electorate, always. And social policy is merely a reflection of the electorate. How many states need to codify marriage as between a man and a woman before libertarians figure this out? Human being will ALWAYS turn their values into laws whether the country is Muslim, Christian, Hindu, or whatever, the founders obviously knew this. Church services were held in federal buildings for goodness sake. Again get over it, you can get most of what you want by working for conservatives within the GOP, or nothing you want from the Democrats.

Jul 15, 2009 - 7:37 am 46. Troy Riser:

You must be kidding. Really. If not, your claim strains credulity. President Obama was THE most liberal member of the Senate. No one came close. His former New Party affiliation, his ties to hard-left ACORN and the Hudson Bay Network, and his relationship to characters such as Tony Rezco, Bill Ayers, and Reverend Wright painted a portrait of the candidate in socialist red, lying white, and cynical blue. Although President Obama may have softened his stance on several key issues during the campaign in order to appear arguably moderate in his outlook and political philosophy, only the most uninformed drone driven to the polls by ACORN on election day could believe Obama actually to be a moderate in any meaningful sense of the term.

By the way, your attempts to portray Republicans as trigger-happy war-mongers doesn’t wash. We advocate peace through strength, knowing from innumerable historical examples that–for a democratic country–war is usually the result of military weakness, lack of will, and a policy of appeasement, and that isolationism is a fool’s dream.

Truly, if your column is an example of current Libertarian thought, Libertarians deserve the distant third-party obscurity they’ve enjoyed for so long. A vote for a Libertarian candidate remains a spitball shot into space, and deservedly so.

Jul 15, 2009 - 8:00 am 47. Rod Stanton:

Watch what you say. Remember GWB, McCain and Rove may be RINOS but they are ruthless; just ask Sarah.
The hard left turn the GOP took 7 years ago will still work. America is not conservative. Be patient. The progressives at the top of the GOP know what they are doing. You just dont see the “big Picture”.

Jul 15, 2009 - 8:06 am 48. jack:

you rinos truly amaze me. you hated the bush adminsitration and then looked to democRATS for the promised land, but how in gods name could anybody, and i mean anybody with a brain fail to recognize what happens every, and i mean, every time swine-o-cRATS get control? the answer is that they lose control and destroy everything they come into contact with.
the list is endless:
education
social security
healthcare
immigration
defense

taxes
budgetary constraint

Jul 15, 2009 - 8:10 am 49. Dark Eden:

This is something I said during the election. If McCain is too extreme for you, then every single Republican is an extremist. If Obama is a moderate to you, then every single Democrat is a moderate. If this is true, then those words have lost all meaning and your view of politics is hopelessly skewed to the left, and now you are reaping the results of that off kilter view.

McCain is exactly the candidate that RINO’s said they wanted and they rejected him for Hopenchange. Why? Because no matter how moderate and reasonable a Republican is, the Pravda Media will always always always call him or her a Nazi. And RINO’s will eat it up.

Jul 15, 2009 - 8:13 am 50. Raoul Ortega:

We didn’t want another conservative president naming yet another SCOTUS justice who would trample civil liberties and spend their vacations chasing the godless homosexuals into reform clinics to “cure” them of their curious disorder.

Another self-proclaimed “libertarian” who is oh-so-concerned about “right-wing” government intrusion into their bedrooms that they willingly let the Democrats intrude into their living rooms, kitchens, bathrooms, garages, backyards and every other part of their lives. And the Dems told you well ahead of time they were going to do just that. There’s more to life than what you’ve got in your crotch and how you like to play with it. And more to liberty than the right to play amateur pharmacist, too.

(And as others pointed out, putting a name on that strawman would help your credibility tremendously. Besides, it sounds like some sort of fetish fantasy for someone who isn’t into leather and whips and chains.)

Jul 15, 2009 - 8:16 am 51. BettyBlue:

Awwww, the RINO’s got “wistful” over Obama—isn’t that just too sweet?

This, despite all the evidence that he was a Marxist, that he favored Islam, the racist church he belonged to for 20 years—but, hey, he’s not going to oppress gays! Or be a hawk! Woot, woot!

Thanks a bunch, RINO’s. We never wished for this guy in this first place, but, party due to you, the country got him! Be careful what YOU wish for, and stop trying to impose your fantasies on the rest of us.

Jul 15, 2009 - 8:19 am 52. BettyBlue:

Dark Eden, as far as the RINO’s are concerned, every Conservative is an “extremist”. They want socially liberal, even hedonistic, leaders, who will, somehow, magically, be fiscal conservatives at the same time.

Ain’t gonna happen.

Jul 15, 2009 - 8:22 am 53. JihadKiller:

GET THESE DARN RINOS OUT OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY!!!!!!

Jul 15, 2009 - 8:24 am 54. evergreen:

If Libertarians want conservatives to be more sympathetic to their causes, it doesn’t help to be “the guys who always hand elections over to the Democrats.” Still less who hand elections to a statist farce like Obama. If, on the other hand, they can get real, I’m more than ever sympathetic to their viewpoint, even as a social con. Can we agree that whatever Bush was, Obama is the same on steroids?

Jul 15, 2009 - 8:26 am 55. Brian Richard Allen:

So this idiot doesn’t want another “conservative” president naming yet another (supreme court) justice who would “trample civil liberties” and spend (his spare time) chasing the godless homosexuals into reform clinics to cure them of their (sexual derangement).

But I’ll bet she cannot name a recent “conservative” president who named a civil-liberties-trampling “judge.” (Although for more than 100 years every (il)liberal nominee and/or appointee, including a couple of active KKKers, of every “Democrat” occupant of our once most hallowed house has run just as readily roughshod over civil liberties — and come to that, the Rule of Law — as has the bloody liar/activist currently under consideration)

And as for feigning surprise that yet another fascistic “Democrat” — this one in the Soros-servicing and some-similar sinister-Svengali-steered sail-eared-simpleton shape of the mobbed-up modified-Marxist Mussolini-modeled murtadd-Muslim empty-galabiyah glove-puppet: Sayed Buraq Hussayn bin Buraq Hussayn and/or Frank Marshall Davis Ubambi — would lie about taxin’ and spendin’?

Heck. Talking about the deranged? Scary stuff!

Now I’m wondering what this “Jath Shaw” perthon duthhhh with ithh nighthhhhhh.

Brian Richard Allen
Loth Angeleth Califobambicated 90028
And the Far Abroad

Jul 15, 2009 - 8:33 am 56. Mike W.:

The RINOS are the only thing keeping the GOP from total meltdown. Once the RINOs are gone, you’re left with a party that does not have the necessary votes to win national elections. Purifying the party is a foolproof way to ensure Dem dominance over American politics for the foreseeable future.

Jul 15, 2009 - 8:36 am 57. xqqme:

“In a democracy, the people know what they want and they deserve to get it, good and hard.”
America, you voted for this. Reality is the best teacher. I’m done trying to explain the consequences of the ‘progressive’ agenda.

“When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.”
- Frédéric Bastiat

Jul 15, 2009 - 8:46 am 58. WestWright:

this Jazz Shaw piece is one of the worst things I have ever read on PJ. Jazz appears to be a teenager of below normal IQ posing as some type of libertarian/progressive conservative similar to amother of his heroes, the ever comedic Meghan McCain….see JS’s PJ article, ‘Why Meghan McCain Is Right, This young lady bravely speaks to a younger generation of conservatives’for more of hhis/it/her simplistic thinking.

Jul 15, 2009 - 8:47 am 59. Jeremy:

“but who among us could have imagined…”

Wait wait wait….you mean people didn’t expect to get a liberal, when they voted for a liberal?

Jul 15, 2009 - 8:47 am 60. Stratomunchkin:

“Trouble is certainly brewing in places like Iran and Honduras, but I wouldn’t wish to face these trials with a president who envisioned the first, best answer to be the 101st Airborne.”

Congratulations, because now you have a President who most likely has never heard of the 101st Airborne at all. And considering we’ve long since reached the end of our other options on Iran – what would you do, Mr. RINO?

Seriously, you RINOs got both candidates – the one you wanted (McCain) and the one you deserved (The One). It’d be nice if you drew the right conclusions from that, but that would most certainly too much for me to hope for, wouldn’t it?

Jul 15, 2009 - 8:52 am 61. freeus:

Are you sure, absolutely sure, you are not AllahPundit? Snicker.

I have not had the privilege of meeting MR. Shaw in person, but I can say without a doubt HE is no dummy. If one would read his words, and pause to let this article settle on the reader palette, perhaps one might see a few problems we as Conservatives have given the Mod Squad to beat us about the head and neck. Oh, I do not agree with MR. Shaw, but in all honesty has the GOP really provided clear differences between ourselves, and the liberal wing of the DNC? Or the DNC as a whole? The Mod Squad needs a reason to WANT to vote for an “R”.

Financially, TARP and not making the tax cuts permanent when we did have both Houses of Congress initially come to mind. When Bush had to the power to make a difference he did not wage war with the Dems, or twist the arms of those in Congress with “R” next to their names. What about the SEC, and how it did not do anything about Madoff for all the years they were warned much funny business was taking place? The CRA should have been zeroed in on, and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac should have been brought to the public. It is called a bully pulpit. Dittos to the behemoth created by the hedge fund market. I am also wondering why in the name of Hallelujah any attempts at tort reform where not made? Sometimes, just sometimes making a lot of noise about an issue will inform the public, and sometimes, just sometimes the American public wakes up and says, “Hey dufus Congress person, why are you not working to fix this?”

When the whole Patriot Act was given to us, I had mixed feelings. I got the whole, “we need to protect Americans” deal, but the little birdie in my head began to grow to the size of that bird who used to advertise, and be on the box of Coca Puffs. You know the one who jumped around and said, “I’m coo-coo for Coca Puffs!” Looks like the Patriot Act has a few things in it that might land my butt in one of those non-existent re-re-education camps, or for sure a lifetime membership in the DHS club for lunatic Americans.

As to Muslims, the wars, and isolationism, I am not interested in converting them, and I am not sure I know any Conservative, Evangelical, or Republican who really believes in conversion of Muslims. I am not against them converting, but I am going to pray for the conversion from a distance. History suggests to me conversion of Muslims is a bloody business, and right now the only bloody business I am interested in is fighting this insanity in Washington, and getting my teenagers into college so they can eventually get jobs, and fund my retirement. We spent all our retirement monies on their soccer playing adventures all over the world. They owe us! LOL! Oh wait! The kiddies, and myself are going to have to work for 50,000 years to pay off the bazillion-kazillion Death Star Care package just passed in the Senate, along with that Crap and Tax bill. Sorry, I digress. I want my country to be safe, and all those in it to not live in fear. I have to admit I am rather puzzled as to why we are fighting in Afghanistan when we have 35 terrorist camps here in the U.S., and as Steve Emerson said recently, “There are more terrorists in America than what they are telling us.” Plus, my take on Afghanistan is it has been stuck in 2 A.D. since 2 A.D., and you can only win a war there if you have a leader in the White House. You know the type, the George S. Patton type leader. The whole “Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot” statement via General Jones regarding more troops being sent to Afghanistan signaled the Commander in Chief chair is vacant, and I am not sure to Helmand Province battle is going to work when you clear out an area, and then leave a void behind. I think that has been tried before, and is sucked. Conclusion, I agree with Jazz only on the point of bringing everyone home. Bring everyone home until we have a serious Commander in Chief who knows how to fight a war. Either that, or bomb the hell out of the mountains where these vermin are hanging out. Bomb it until there are no mountains, but only hills.

You have to admit Bush telegraphing for three months we were going into Iraq was shall we say, moronic? Uh, and going to the UN was shall we say, oh like trying to appeal to all the inhabitants of the Star Wars bar scene crowd. We are the freaking United States of America, if we need to protect the world from a nutbag, or protect this country; who the heck cares what the evil dictators of the world at the UN think? My desire is the next time there is a Conservative in the White House, buzz the hell out of the UN. Sort of like the way President Chutes&Ladders buzzed New York. I mean if you are going to scare the hell of of New Yorkers, at least scare some folks who need to be scared! Wouldn’t it be great to see a ring of black helicopters encircled around the UN building? My point here is that Bush and Conservatives did a really bad job approaching, and explaining the war in Iraq. The handling of both wars was atrocious, and lack of communication does not win over those like Jazz. We just left him, and those like him to wonder what in the world of Waldo is this all about? And for those less intelligent than Jazz, those devoid of any intelligence whatsoever, we left them to Soros and Code Pink! Jazz would still probably have disagreed with the war in Iraq, but at least if Bush, and those in charge of communicating with the peoples, if they would have bridged some gaps, perhaps some of the screaming memes against the war would have been not so ear piercing.

As to all those giving huge raspberries to Jazz, and his Mod Sqad ilk, yep we did try to tell them. And all those raspberries have gotten us what so far? “Ninny-ninny boo-boo!”, well it only will make you feel good for about three seconds before one has a strong desire to do bodily harm to those who did not listen. This will either land you in jail, on medications, or in a padded room. We have to give Jazz, and the Mod Squad more reasons to be happy with what we have to offer than the useless vote for Bob Barr. We have to give these people at least a 7 out of 10 reasons to pull the lever, punch the chad, or color in the dot for the “Repubelican”, (little Levin lingo there). We are never going to agree on all the social issues, and more than likely we are never going to agree on an isolationism ideology. But I am all for better defining our differences between the GOP and DNC. A good place to start would be for “Repubelicans” to swear before God they will uphold the Constitution. Oh wait! Don’t they do that already? Yeah, they do don’t they! Perhaps this next go round they need to pinky swear, swear before God, and really, really meant it when they say they will uphold the Constitution! Until then, not only is Jazz not going to vote for a Conservative or “Repubelican”, neither are a lot of other Americans.

P.S. “Great Moderates in American History” is still not a book. We are at a point now in American history where you are either with us, or against us. I want my country back! I want the federal government to be the size of a walnut. I want my Constitution adhered to, and those who wish foreign law implemented, go live in those foreign countries whose laws you want Americans to be governed by. I am sick to death of politicians who flip off their constituents, and rake in millions because Joe and Jan Public voted them in to Congress. I want my vote to mean something. I want our military to be treasured no matter what your view on a war is, and for them to have the best care we as a nation can give them. I want both sides of the aisles to zip it, and listen to what the majority of this nation wants. Now who is with me?

Jul 15, 2009 - 8:57 am 62. angie2:

I wasn’t fooled. Too bad you (and a bunch of other morons) were. We all have to suffer for your stupidity.

Jul 15, 2009 - 8:59 am 63. Delia:

DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Jul 15, 2009 - 9:07 am 64. freeus:

I would like to add here that in order to receive enough votes to win an election of any kind, we will need RINOS’ votes. In case no one has noticed, there is this gigantic, drooling thing called ACORN lurking around ballot boxes. I am not saying we have to compromise our values, or ideals. I am saying in order to win these elections, we are going to need ALL votes. Soros has all the Attorney Generals, and Secretary of States in each state poised to continue ignoring voter fraud. Minnesota is something we will see repeated over and over if we do not give RINOS a reason to vote in mass for the GOP. Close elections will only give us Johnny Depp as the next Senator from Kalifornia.

Jul 15, 2009 - 9:10 am 65. ha ha:

So, John McCain’s choice for the supreme court would be worse than a bigoted fool from New York who laughs at the idea of legislative control. I’m interested to hear how that, and the other fantasies from this imbecile, could be.

Jul 15, 2009 - 9:13 am 66. wondering:

Jazz, please tell us all – since you were so very, very wrong about your choice in the last election, a choice with astounding impact on our lives as well as the lives of our children, grandchildren, even great-grandchildren and beyond, WHY SHOULD WE LISTEN TO ANYTHING YOU HAVE TO SAY AT ALL?

You are so obviously wrong on important issues that we would get better advice from tea leaves!

Jul 15, 2009 - 9:29 am 67. John Stephens:

Mr. Shaw is living proof that the Founders were right to mistrust Democracy. It’s people like him that ensure people like me get the government they deserve.

Jul 15, 2009 - 9:29 am 68. Jaibones:

“Trouble is certainly brewing in places like Iran and Honduras, but I wouldn’t wish to face these trials with a president who envisioned the first, best answer to be the 101st Airborne. And I most assuredly want a leader who seeks to live in peace with the Muslim nations of the world rather than converting them.”

“But on the domestic front, what’s a libertarian independent isolationist to do? We have no party. We have no candidates.”

Well. Could it be that the reason that you have no party and no candidates is that you’re an effing idiot? (See angie2 above).

- No one is talking about “converting Muslims” except Ann Coulter, who does that sort of thing for fun.
- 101st Airborne?! See conclusion above. McCain is, if anything, more cautious with U.S. military power than Bush was.
- Bob Barr? Bob Effing Barr?! Are you insane?! Retarded f*cks like you gave us President Barry O’Bonehead, Rebel President Without a Clue. Well done.
- How is that “living in peace with the Muslim nations of the world” thing working out for you in Afghanistan, dickeater? Talibaners shooting schoolgirls in the head, lighting them on fire, stoning women, murdering local police. U.S. unmanned drones killing civilians in Pakistan and Afghanistan. And in Iran, where your guy Barry spent most of a week “refusing to interfere in the democratic elections in Iran”, rather than throw the democratic protesters a bone?

This is what your vote for Bob Barr was going to end, right?

Nice job, Jazz. You are the poster child for the idiotic American voters who gave us Obama and the social disaster that is Obamanation.

Jul 15, 2009 - 9:37 am 69. always right:

Plenty of previous commenters already said a lot.

Your self-confessed vote for Barr showed your childish un-seriousness. You can stay in your northeast elite circle, with an absolute clear conscience, “I did NOT vote for the monster”. It is MORE about you, how you feel, and what kind of image you project outwards, than what an adult would have done.

Congrats! You disgusted just about everybody else.

Jul 15, 2009 - 9:37 am 70. Sara123:

The problem you have is in making crazy generalizations about the two headed party. Your social claims about Republicans are not real; that is what you heard somewhere. Your claims about Democrats’ economic reform are not real. Obama made it clear he was going for socialized medicine, cap and trade and wealth redistribution! Guess what – that comes with taxes! The party in Congress votes with the President – who, by the way, is a Marxist and has a long track record of that association.

The claim about isolationism is a problem. Both parties are globalists and they like America being the police force of the world. Used to be, in the days of the “contract with America” Republicans were not crazy about this role and wanted us to mind our own business. No more…Globe trotter Bush fixed that. And about your love of the Left’s judges? Wait until they strip you of the freedom of speech in the name of “hate” and the second amendment. Wait until they institute race preferences for all their favored races and go after you as an inherent racist who deserves institutionalized racial discrimination. Did you watch them at Duke with the Lax players?

I would never vote for a Democrat and I do not always vote for Republicans.

Jul 15, 2009 - 9:41 am 71. Steve:

At one time I thought that Jimmy Carter was the worst president ever, but now with the policies being put into place by this socialist the Carter presidency will look like boom times compared to what is to come shortly.

Jul 15, 2009 - 9:48 am 72. Todd:

Mr Jazz Shaw,
You are a wordy fool.

Jul 15, 2009 - 9:53 am 73. Sallie:

Many good posts.

However, what do you propose to do to change things? No rhetoric.

Perhaps the majority of people that voted Obama into office do not care or contribute to taxes, or society in general. They voted “color” not America.

Jul 15, 2009 - 10:24 am 74. SkyDiver:

My gosh, Jazz, your stupidity is bordering with felony. You dare to play ignorance, after the fact that you helped to install this socialist scourge in the highest office of this land? You didn’t know what you were getting???? Nobody can be that s-t-u-p-i-d!!!

Jul 15, 2009 - 10:26 am 75. BettyBlue:

Freeus, problem is, the RINO’s aren’t going to vote our way, no matter what we do, because they find the whole concept of social conservatism, well—icky. No matter what we give them, it will never be enough. Turning the Republican party into the Democrat-lite party wasn’t enough. And, what’s the point of voting Democrat-lite, if you have actual Democrats to vote for, and become “wistful” about?

Jul 15, 2009 - 10:26 am 76. xqqme:

Now who is with me?

Standing up **Applause**
Encore, encore, encore!

Jul 15, 2009 - 10:27 am 77. Войска ПВО:

Jazz Shaw writes:

“But on the domestic front, what’s a libertarian independent isolationist to do? “

Grow a set of balls and admit to yourself that there are really people out there in the world who hate the U.S. of A. and are making a concerted effort to destroy it.

This not only includes Al Queda and various enclaves of Muslim terrorists but, sadly, the current joke of a POTUS who you helped put into office.

As far as I am concerned, the abuse you get every time you write one of your insipid posts, you richly deserve!

Jul 15, 2009 - 10:29 am 78. Frank of PV:

Remember,

Jazz Shaw is an extremely confused individual. He is a former Republican, who at one time supported Democratic candidate Barack Obama, who eventually voted for Libertarian candidate Bob Barr. Jazz may proclaim that he did not vote for the CEO and chief, but is still responsible because of his early support for Obama, and for partaking in the populist media bashing of the GOP during the election… something he takes special pride in.

Yes, confused indeed.

P.S Hey Jazz, looking forward to your next hit piece on Sarah Palin!

Jul 15, 2009 - 10:29 am 79. Ken Hahn:

It is amazing. Shaw compares a parody of conservatives to an idealized social democrat and then chooses to wander off into a third party that has never been serious. Obama sugar coated his high tax-massive spending-regulation of everything philosophy during the campaign, but it was obvious to anyone who cared to look. McCain was the worst choice the Republicans could have offered which made him far superior to a Chicago machine politician with a messiah complex.

Jul 15, 2009 - 10:41 am 80. neal:

I gotta say, the responses to this RINO are great. Made my day reading so many like minded comments.

Jul 15, 2009 - 11:09 am 81. White Helmet:

Yeah, yeah. All you “I told you so” types are a joke.

Everything you are seeing now is the fault of the republicans. You caused it. You made it. Wipe that “I told you so” grin of your faces and suck up the responsibility. Its all yours. Obama is merely a straight line from what Bush was doing.

YOU sat silent as Bush ran up big deficits. YOU were silent and even applauded the “Bush economy” as his SEC allowed reckless lending and banking building economic growth on SPENDING not production, DEBT not saving.

The Bush era head of the SEC has just resigned–after being completely unable to explain why she didn’t nail Madoff but spent time harassing small types who were often guiltless. The biggest crook in decades and they missed him.

The Bush Admin built not one refinery–not one. Businesses hid offshore paying next to no tax as the debt increased. He borrowed endless billions to pay for two wars instead of prudently raising taxes as you all cheered.

Bush did nothing to fix health care, nothing to stop predatory lending–OH! But we did get that nifty bakruptcy bill that protects the banks and their bonuses.

Face it: Obama has a tough situation to deal with. YOU all helped make it. The republicans were unable to fix it–and the republicans started the binge spendig to try to get us out. I believe the amount Bush asked for in September 2008 before the election to help his tanking economy was $700 billion to bail out the banks?

YOU made all that Obama is doing necessary. YOU put him in office by your chest-thumping blundering and refusal to do the right things (hint: when you run a deficit, raise taxes or cut spending–he did neither).

I bet every real conservative out here is writhing in agony–like a vampire dreched with holy water–because you know all this is true!!!

Now Obama can fix what you ruined: maybe some health acre for the little people; some higher taxes for those that sat sucking up the benefits of a phony economy. Ha! Look outside–reality is here!!!

Jul 15, 2009 - 11:15 am 82. AThinkingPerson:

#71 Steve: Well said! Jimmy Carter II is unfolding right before our eyes.

Jul 15, 2009 - 11:27 am 83. BettyBlue:

Actually, the reality is that Obama can’t fix anything—certainly not with another stimulus.

Also, it’s July already. Time to stop blaming everything that’s gone wrong on Bush.

Jul 15, 2009 - 11:39 am 84. BettyBlue:

As for “converting Moslems”, I don’t recall that Bush, or any Republicans, were especially interested in doing that. Rather the opposite, in fact.

In fact, with Saddam gone, Islamic persecution of Iraqi Christians is on the rise, something that wouldn’t have been allowed, had the motive been converting Islam to Christianity.

Jul 15, 2009 - 11:44 am 85. Mike W.:

angie2: “I wasn’t fooled. Too bad you (and a bunch of other morons) were. We all have to suffer for your stupidity.”

I don’t see how anyone who voted for Obama could have been fooled. He stated exactly what he wanted to do throughout his campaign. He said he was going to lower taxes on the middle class and repeal the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, which he did. He said he was going to get our troops out of Iraq, which he is doing. He said he was going to overhaul health care, which he is doing. He said he he was going to expand the government, which he is doing.

If you don’t agree with his policies, that’s one thing. But to claim that Obama won the election by lying about what he planned to do just makes you sound dumb and ignorant.

During Election 08, a group of 76 Nobel Laureates in Science endorsed Obama over McCain. Are you going to tell me that somehow those 76 men and women were somehow “fooled” into voting for Obama, but somehow you, with your superior intellect and judgment, were able to see through the pack of lies, but that somehow 76 Nobel winners were hoodwinked? Don’t make me laugh.

Obama won because average Americans became poor under the Bush economy, and GOP candidate Mccain didn’t know how to fix it. He didn’t mention the working class in any of his speeches or the debates, and laughably “suspended” his campaign because he believed Americans to be so stupid that they would confuse erratic overeaction with sensible reaction. McCain campaign co-chairman Phil Gramm even had the audacity to tell struggling working class Americans that they were just “a nation of whiners”, and that the country was in a “mental recession”.

McCain ran a terrible campaign that had no real message nor articulation of how he was going to fix the economy other than continuing the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy and lowering capital gains tax, which a vast majority of economists said was a losing strategy.

Maybe if the GOP had run a campaign that at least pretended to give a flying **** about working class Americans, it might have stood a fighting chance. Instead, it just wavered between ignoring them completely and calling them a bunch of whining losers.

Jul 15, 2009 - 11:44 am 86. BettyBlue:

And, White Helmet, I’m not writhing in agony “like a vampire”, blahblahblah (okay, so I do tend to get quite hairy during the full moon.)

I’m laughing.

All the agony seems to be coming from the Left, which can’t bear the slightest word of criticism against The One, and RINO’s, who now realize that, “We’ve been had! Obama really WAS a Marxist, all along! Who’da thunk?”

Don’t worry. A few more stimulus packets will solve everything. Or whatever. You guys just keep telling youselves that.

And RINO’s, just remember, as long as you pick another Septegenarian/octegenarian Counry Club Republican no-cal, Democrat-lite candidate, YOU’LL WIN THE WHITE HOUSE THIS TIME AROUND! Though, even if you do, I doubt you’ll know what do with it. Blame Sarah Palin! It’s all her fault! She’s the cause of global warming, and common cold, too! (Snort, snicker, hee-heee!)

Jul 15, 2009 - 11:51 am 87. AThinkingPerson:

Re #81 White Helmet: My, my, my…I’m going to read into your dog-whistle level shrieking/comment that you’re tired of the GOP pointing out that Obama’s HopeNChange was a thinly veiled ploy to raise taxes, pay off union thugs and have a government takeover of all private enterprise?

You’re a little late to the game White Helmet, even George W. Obama has stopped passing the buck for his heinous budget disaster, the stimulus sham and his non-existent foreign policy off on Bush in favor of the newly revamped message of “I said it would take YEARS for my recovery to take place, not months!” Yeah. The Messiah has officially been outed as a farce.

Tone down the high-pitched shrieking friend. It belies your hysteria and rising paranoia to all reading it.

Jul 15, 2009 - 11:52 am 88. Mike W.:

BettyBlue: “All the agony seems to be coming from the Left, which can’t bear the slightest word of criticism against The One, and RINO’s, who now realize that, “We’ve been had! Obama really WAS a Marxist, all along! Who’da thunk?””

Agony? Are you kidding? We’ve got the White House, Senate, House of Representatives, and coming soon, the Supreme Court. Oh yeah, we’re howling with agony. It’s going to be so painful spending the next 8 years injecting a whole slew of liberal policies into the American system. It’s going to be equally painful to continue watching the tattered remains of the GOP leadership fumble ineffectually and completely devolve into a party of racist, adulterous, hypocritical losers.

But , somehow I guess we’ll just have to figure out a way to manage…

Jul 15, 2009 - 12:23 pm 89. karlinsync:

What is so hard to digest is that this President and leaders of Congress can lie to your face and think nothing of it. Lied about the Stimulus. Lied about Cap and Trade. The Health Plan filled with details that has to blow away the American worker and small businesses. This is what you get when you give full power to only one Party. Not one iota of fiscal responsibility or discussion in this “new” administration. Wise up America!

Jul 15, 2009 - 12:34 pm 90. Janegirl:

“Trouble is certainly brewing in places like Iran and Honduras, but I wouldn’t wish to face these trials with a president who envisioned the first, best answer to be the 101st Airborne. And I most assuredly want a leader who seeks to live in peace with the Muslim nations of the world rather than converting them.”

What is your problem? I wish that when our country is overrun because we STOPPED choosing the option of the using the 101st – the first people to be dispossessed will be people like you WHO REFUSED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE DANGER IN THE WORLD. And who ever suggested we were CONVERTING MUSLIMS? If anything – Bush bent over backwards to accomodate them and CAIR. What are you smoking?

Jul 15, 2009 - 12:37 pm 91. AThinkingPerson:

Mike W: The painful part for YOU will be explaining to your future generations how you could possibly vote in a Carter II when we all knew how inexperienced and liberal he was in advance. If I were you I’d start compiling a list of possible excuses like “I was on a parkbench and a friendly ACORN volunteer offered me free cigarettes for my vote.” or “I actually believed him when he said he would only tax the rich.” or “I thought Nancy Pelosi was sexy so I voted for her man.” or “He read that darn teleprompter so convincingly I couldn’t resist.” or “I have never claimed to be a policy wonk. I just thought he was cool.”

I’m guessing when Obama rolls out his latest round of taxes (have you heard the new one on all water-based beverages? Doesn’t sound like that’ll only stick it to the rich now does it Mike?), the same smug crowd will start squealing like pigs. We can already hear them starting to squeal (just read some of white helmet’s high decibel posts).

Jul 15, 2009 - 12:45 pm 92. pakvi roti:

Libertarian? A fantasy. We Conservatives owe you Marxists a great deal for the ruthless and systematic destruction of our beloved Nation. Yes, Marxists. You and every other delusional useful idiot that calls yourself a Libertarian or Moderate are Marxists, even if you’re too stupid to realize it. I just hope we get the opportunity to properly thank you for your perfidy, while there is still time to salvage this once great Nation.

Jul 15, 2009 - 1:01 pm 93. White helmet:

Thinking Person at 87:

OK I took a puff or two and am calmed down. But this also proves my point that Democrats are not only more MANLY than wimpish republicans, they’re more responsible too.

I assume everyone agrees that we have to raise taxes to reduce the debt load anyway, right? Its more prudent than borrowing more from the Chinese. We have to pay down some debt. The GOP didn’t raise taxes, they cut them while spending. That was irresponsible. WE are being responsible.

The Greedy Old Party also did nothing-zilch–to cut spending when they controlled congress. They ran deficits instead. So you can’t really criticize Obama or the democrats for not cutting spending drastically now, in a republican caused rescession. So instead of spending money on whatever the GOP spent money on, we are adding value to the US: healthcare et. True, its not the same as building roads in Iraq, and giving billions to Halliburton or to offshore subsidiaries that pay no tax, but it’ll help here more. AND we’re raising taxes to cover a lot of it. That’s more responsible.

Taking over private enterprise? How “private” (puff), is a company when it comes begging for loans from the taxes of secretaries, construction workers, plumbers and grocery clerks to pay their bonuses? And why shouldn’t the govt take an ownership interest in companies taking taxpayer money? How arrogant for those jet owning, bonus belching companies that can’t survive in the private sector without OUR money to think they just have some right to taxpayer funds with no conditions. But not to worry! The democrats will see that the taxpayers are protected–the GOP surely didn’t.

You may be right about the unions. I pass on that. (puff). But no one can be surprised: today, the only safety in the economy lies in a safe, insulated from competition, overpaid, union job, preferably with a state that can fleece its atxpayers for the money, with great benefits and an early retirement age. Why? Well, since the GOP controlled congress since 1994, they did everything possible to send jobs overseas and cut pensions. Disgusting? Try rational. Just like the CEO’s who did not work, cooked the books, ignored quality and now want my money (or maybe my parent’s money–unlike sheesh, i live in a supported apartment with a great view) to pay for it all.

Do tell of all the things the GOP did to make it better for manufacturers in the US since 1994? Or how about enacting Sarbanes-Oxley which is killing the US financial sector?

I’m sorry, but the republicans FAILED. Miserably. They caused this recesssion and it can’t be ended in 6 months. Republicans should take a long vacation–ask Gov Sanford for travel tips–and leave the fixing of this enormous mess to the grown ups.

Jul 15, 2009 - 1:02 pm 94. Dave:

The ‘change’ everyone wanted turns out to be…. EXACTLY WHAT OPROMPTA SAID IT WOULD BE…. so what the heck is the surprise that RINOs and Dems supposedly are getting?

Obama is, was and will always be a hardcore leftist with statist fantasies and a strong wish that a certain Mr. Dzugashvili of Georgia had not already stolen the nickname “Steel”… Yes, there already was a “Stalin”, and Oprompta would have loved to have thought of that first.

ANy red blooded American male who watched Oprompta ‘throw up’ the first pitch at the all star game knew immediately in his guts that BHO is NOT a real, ordinary American guy… he is a good basketball player, like many a Euro east or west, but he never learned to throw a baseball like a man. That limp-wristed girlie push shows he is not quintessentially an American with schoolyard recess skills. American boys either learn to perform ‘decently’ at most sports or they don’t learn any of them, because they’re not natural athletes.

Obama IS a natural athlete, as his basketball skills attest, and yet he never learned to throw a baseball at ALL. Any Palestinian stone-hurling hooligan can throw a baseball to home plate, but Obama has absolutely NO game…

My alarms are beeping.

Jul 15, 2009 - 1:04 pm 95. AThinkingPerson:

White Helmet: So how is raising taxes on everyone, especially those making over $250,000 (re small businesses) helping? How is the government taking over the automakers and in turn giving the shaft to the bond holders and gifting the unions with primary ownership helping? How is forcing through a disasterous healthcare plan with no hearings or discussion and with moderate democrats now against it helping? How is putting in a Supreme Court justice who has admitted to basing opinions on skin color and not rule of law helping?

What you and other liberals always fail to see is that in his paltry efforts to “help” Obama is making things worse. Nowhere will you see me claim that Bush was perfect, in fact quite the opposite. I disagreed with many of his policies. Now, being that Obama “inherited” a mess as we’ve heard ad nauseum, why would he triple Bush’s budget? Why push through a stimulus that has shown no affect and which he now says won’t help for years if at all? Why would he insist on taking more taxes from the unemployed, undereducated poor at a time of deepening recession? Why would he insist on raising taxes on small businesses which create jobs?

I hear about all of Obama’s help but see no evidence (other than his own words). He needs to stop campaigning and realize what has happened while he’s been busy reading off his teleprompter. In his efforts to immortalize himself, he’s only succeeded in making Bush look like a genius in comparison.

Jul 15, 2009 - 1:56 pm 96. Marc Malone:

#85 Mike W – For the first time, I agree with one of your posts. (Seppuku time!) I always said Obama told people exactly what he was going to do, but the people never realized what the ramifications of his policies would be. And yes, McCain never did pander to the masses enough. Fact is, McCain couldn’t hide his economic ignorance. Obama could.

#81 White Helmet – Now, I could be wrong about this, but I thought the SEC guys were appointed by Congress, and the Prez only got to pick which one would be the head. I thought the SEC was subordinate to Congress, not the Prez. Technically, so is the Prez’s cabinet. They have to be confirmed by the Senate, and can be called upon to report to Congress without exec privilege.

As for stopping the predatory lending, only Congress could act. The Prez has no authority in this area. Bush called on Congress to do this job more than 20 times! The lending was a result of Dem policies, not Pubs’.

Health care is NOT the job of the government. They did create this mess, by giving the AMA a monopoly in 1849. Break the monopoly and you reduce the cost of care, but that is all the government should be doing about it, except also getting rid of the stupid Employer Based insurance system.

Spending. Lots of it stemmed from 9/11, or have you conveniently forgotten about that? The bailout was heavily opposed by lots of Pubs in Congress. The conservatives there were less than thrilled about this gross idea. People were calling their Congresscritters screaming for them to vote “no”. The calls were, what, 90-1 against? They passed it anyway. Who did? Dems and RINO’s.

And so’s you know, Treas Sec Paulson is a Democrat. The bailout was his idea. Stupid Bush, being the RINO he is, had Dems in his administration! Powell and Rice were soft Pubs at best (Dems in disguise). Tom Ridge (DOHS) is pro-abortion. The Bush administration was an old-fashioned Dem administration. Why? Because there is no longer any room in the Dem party for actual Dems. The Socialists have hijacked the Dem party, thus forcing these guys to become RINO’s.

McCain, Giuliani, Romney, and Huckabee are Dems, too, btw. All the Pub front-runners were Dems. McCain with his stances on immigration, environmentalism, campaign finance, et al; Giuliani with his pro-choice, anti-gun, environmetalism; Romney with RomneyCare, Pro-gay, pro-choice (until recently); Huckabee with his increased spending and taxes in AR, and his college for illegals; they were all Conservative Democrats claiming to be Conservative Republicans.

Oh. I forgot Ron Paul, who is a Libertarian running as a Pub. He thinks Libertarians are the true Conservatives. The real Conservatives had no chance in that campaign, watered down as it was by all the Dems. Too confusing for the voters.

Jul 15, 2009 - 1:58 pm 97. pH-DependentNeocon:

Jazz,
Thank you for the insight into an “independent’s” mind…its a truly frightening view. In summary, you chose to have less freedom and immensely increased government intervention in your life. All because you A.) actually believed that the leftists would stick their necks out for the gay community…Ha! (CA proposition 8, anyone?!), and B.) you believed the foolish equation that projecting weakness equals peace and security; remember Aristotle-”nature abhors a vacuum”-Which country/dictator would you prefer to fill the vacuum that a U.S. pullback from the world stage would surely cause, dear Sir?

Jul 15, 2009 - 2:23 pm 98. Kipling:

White Helmet: So Mr. Obama is going to fix the mess Bush created by pursuing the same policies that Bush did to create the mess. You might want to take a course on logic in your spare time. How long will you guys continue to whine about Bush and blame all of your own failures on him? We are now almost 6 months into wonderboy’s term and I see no sign of fixing the problem.

MikeW: The howling will come when the liberal policies your guys inject into the American system come home to roost. You may want to blindly follow the elites and the mis-informed but I will think for myself and go from there. Your other comments about tax policy and spending are absurd and no more than Democratic talking points from the 1930s. I agree with you that the GOP abandoned its conservative principles and that caused the problem but to continue to pursue the policies that caused the problem in order to solve the problem is lunacy.

Jul 15, 2009 - 2:26 pm 99. blue sky:

So much blame, no words to rectify what has happened and what is going on.

Regulatory capture, the theme of the day..Repubs and Demos need to clean up their own houses. They are both dirty and not working in the best interest of America. Goldman Sach’s is a good example of overlapping corruption, done under the radar and will not be questioned by the democratic lap dog press etc.

I don’t think many people care or pay attention, just so they have a job and food on the table. But they will when the wolf knocks on their door.

Jul 15, 2009 - 3:05 pm 100. White helmet:

Thinking Person @ 95:

Unlike the GOP, Obama is paying for part of his programs with cash. True, a lot of the cash is coming from people who don’t need the new programs, like health care. But those high income people were making lots of money on a phony economy anyway. Brokers, traders, hedge fund managers. I only regret they can’t scalp the real estate brokers who added no value for their services and are almost all out of work after putting lots of people into more house than they should have purchased. The new taxes will provide health care for the poor. Better that than more money for Halliburton.

Marc malone: The Pres was responsible for SEC control. But even if separation of powers didn’t exist and ocngress did, the GOP controlled congress from 94-2006 blew it.

Kipling at 98: Perhaps the best post of all: Good point on continuing the failed policies, but they are a bit different: this is deficit financed stimulus in a recession, not in good times as Bush did; and Obama is raising taxes to cover deficits and pay down debt–not lowering taxes and ramping up spending as Bush did.

6 months is not enough time, by the way, to fix a disaster brought on by 20 plus years of mismanagement, most of it under the GOP (anymore than 8 months was enough for Bush to stop 9-11 after Clinton had been in office 8 years).

Seriously now, do you think that there is any choice now but to act as Obama is acting? Do you think McCain would be acting differently?

If Bush hadn’t blown it, Obama would not have been elected; having blown it and the GOP’s trust as the responsible party, Bush and the GOP put down the red carpet for Obama and worse, Pelosi who is now veto proof. The best the GOP can hope for is that voters will recoil from deficts this large and new taxes and slide back to the GOP.

Jul 15, 2009 - 3:25 pm 101. Kipling:

The problem with libertarians and the Libertarian Party is that they hold an unrealistic, almost utopian, view of man and the world in which he lives.

I quote from the Libertarian Party platform: “We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose.”

To paraphrase, in the libertarian world, a person has “sole dominion” over his life and can live any way he chooses as long as he does not “forcibly” interfere with that same right in others. To the libertarian there is no standard higher than the individual and the individual is completely free to choose his own course as long as he is willing to live with the consequences. This is the very definition of anarchy and will lead to the breakdown of civilization and culture. The individual is not a self-contained entity whose life choices only impact himself. His actions will have an impact on others even if he does not “forcibly interfere” with their personal autonomy. A dad addicted to drugs or pornography will negatively impact his family even if he carefully avoids “forcibly interfering” with their autonomy. Look at the data on single moms and the impact failed fatherhood has on children. The choices individuals make have a larger impact than just upon the individual making the choice; therefore, individuals have a responsibility to society to make the right choice. A nation of people selfishly choosing to gratify themselves will lead to the crumbling of society.

Although some individuals will choose to use their personal autonomy to do the right thing, many will not and why should they if personal freedom is the ultimate goal. Our Founding Fathers defined liberty as the ability to do the right thing not as the ability to do whatever the individual wanted. They considered that to be licentiousness. Conservatives hold with the Founding Fathers.

Conservatives are not libertarians. We want liberty but liberty as defined by the Founding Fathers. We recognize that man is flawed and must be guided by morality, tradition, and law to make the right choices. Man does not have sole dominion over his life because he was created and thus was created for a purpose. Dominion over his life belongs to God who bestowed life upon the individual.

Libertarians are not conservatives. What do they want to conserve but personal “liberty” and personal “liberty” cannot be conserved when the individual is exalted above everything else. Left to his own nature, such “liberty” will give way to licentiousness and the individual will find that his pursuit of unfettered “liberty” will have enslaved him.

Like the individual, government is a creation of God and only serves its true purpose when it submits to His headship and precepts. Only God can take away the inalienable rights of men and define reality (truth). Only God is an authority unto himself. Mr. Obama and the Democrats, in infringing on the rights of men, redefining truth, and setting themselves up as the final authority, are claiming the authority of a god. Conservatives and Libertarians can work together on these lines but a libertine society is not the solution to our larger problems.

Jul 15, 2009 - 3:31 pm 102. Kipling:

White Helmet @100: The GOP and George Bush lost the mantle of financial responsibility because they abandoned their conservative principles. I think one could make the case that Bush was not a true conservative but only conservative on a few issues. Increased spending and government bailouts are not conservative answers to a financial crisis. However, raising taxes will not increase revenue and deficit spending has never worked. The stimulus bill was not even crafted well but simply a give away to political interest groups and pork projects. You also forgot to mention that Mr. Obama is paying for a lot of these projects by simply printing money. I do think McCain would have been better or at least more responsive to conservative pressure.

How long until Mr. Obama can produce results? He has already failed to meet his own goals. He said the unemployment rate would not reach 9% if we passed the stimulus and we are now at 9.5%. How long? Hopefully it will not take eight years and a world war to bring us out of it like it did FDR.

Jul 15, 2009 - 3:46 pm 103. BettyBlue:

Well, Mike, I hope you can find a way to cope—because, despite all the victories you claim, you guys still sound like you’re bitter and unhappy, especially when someone dares criticize The One.

Now, now, don’t feel bad. Another stimulus will solve everything! (Snort, chuckle, hee-heee!)

You guys can always attack Palin—again. I know that always makes you happy.

Jul 15, 2009 - 4:18 pm 104. freeus:

BettyBlue #75

All I am saying is that between the two choices given, we have to give clear, concise reasons for those like Jazz to vote GOP. Sort of a take me or leave me, but this is definitely where I stand politician/ideology. Reagan carried these voters, and many were happy to vote for him. Many voted of them voted for Bush. Independents, RINOS, or Blue Dawgs can be swayed to vote GOP if they can trust the candidate to adhere to their principles. Instead of offering up lawyers, or generational politicians, we need to offer up business owners, Moms, and plain Americans who have nothing but their constituents on their minds.

I understand what you are saying about how they find our Conservative social leanings “icky”, but I believe there are far more voters out there who if we just stood for what was right and the Constitution, they would look at the Democrat, and they would look at the Republican, and say the “R” met at least 7 out of the 10 top issues they are interested in.

In addition, we have an image problem with these voters. They think we are Evangelicals out to cast demons from their bodies, to invade their homes, to tell them they must worship our God, and what they can or cannot watch on television or at the theater. Nothing could be farther from the truth. But they think we are like some group straight out of the Inquisition. They have bought into this concept of Conservatives being only the party of “No!”. We have to fix this.

Look, I have my issues with RINOS, and Jazz. However, RINOS in many ways did not give us Obama. Apathy is responsible for Obama. We have not educated the youth properly, and so we have generations of morons which cannot read the first line of the Constitution. We allowed our colleges and universities to be taken over by the likes of Bill Ayers. The Church has not addressed the needs of inner cities, single Moms, racial relations, and the state of the family. What has been done by the voting public regarding the media, and Congress not reflecting the wishes of the citizens? While so many are watching American Idol, there are only a small number of Americans working like worms in hot ashes sending emails, alerts and alarms regarding scary moves being made by Congress. For example, how many Americans know the first thing about Kelo? No, no way do I hang Obama around the necks of the RINOS. I would also remind those screaming it is all the RINOS fault, that 8-10 million “broken glass Conservatives” DID NOT vote in this last election. Apathy, a bad nominee, Bush fatigue, the MSLSD media, ignorance, and ACORN gave us Obama well before the first RINO cast his/her vote for Bob Barr.

Sooooo, how many emails, and phone calls have you RINO bashers made this week so far? Just saying, if you do not want RINOS in control of the GOP, you are going to have to fight them for it. Tea party goer? It is like Senator DeMint said yesterday, “this is in the hands of the American people”, and he strongly suggested we let ALL the Senators in the Senate hear our voices, not just our own. He even said we should lean on the Democrats in the Senate because it is making a difference. So let’s go lean!

Jul 15, 2009 - 4:51 pm 105. George Bruce:

“We didn’t want another conservative president naming yet another SCOTUS justice who would trample civil liberties and spend their vacations chasing the godless homosexuals into reform clinics to “cure” them of their curious disorder.”

Good grief. Name one siting or nominated SCOTUS Justice who spends their vacations chasing ….homosexuals into reform clinics…..” Why do you say such things? Do you realize that your fevered imagined fears bear no resemblance to reality? Are you starting to realize this?

This article reads like the writings of an insane person who is just beginning to doubt their own sanity. Hopefully this is the first step in your eventual recovery.

Maybe in your next step you might comprehend that voting for Captain Kangaroo, excuse me, Bob Barr was the equivalent of voting for Obama.

Jul 15, 2009 - 5:11 pm 106. MarkD:

White Helmet, Government receipts are down. Your claim Obama is paying for his programs with cash is an absurd falsehood. It’s as believable as his projection that unemployment might peak at 8% with spendulus. Oops.

Jul 15, 2009 - 5:41 pm 107. White helmet:

Kipling @ 102:

The claim that Bush and the GOP went astray engenders as much sympathy as the Vatican’s claim that abusive priests abandoned their catholic principles. The people in charge let it happen because they were careless, indifferent, greedy or all three. None inspire desire to let them take the reins again does it?

But its a bit academic: the GOP has no one to put up against Obama. And its almost 2010!

McCain would have done little different: he has no conservative bone in his body; even his cartiledge is iffy; he would have been swayed by the panic and done what Obama has done. His vote for Mccain-Feingold shows he is all in favor of government meddling. His campaign was a pathetic exercise in no principles at all. His best moment was congratulating Obama.

The US may have to endure inflation (from all that printed money), wage price controls, shortages, continued sluggishness, high taxes, and a more intrusive government (courtesy of those who outed the NSA spying on terrorists), all because the GOP forgot what it or anything else stood for. Maybe that’ll drive voters back to the GOP. Then again, we may be so deep inot things then, it may prove impossible to undo what Obama does. Like unionized state employees, some “advances” just are too hard to prune back.

The voters may be cooling a tiny bit on Obama but they’ll cut him enough slack for a long while: they remember what it was like when he was elected. I think most people see him as doing the best he can.

Jul 15, 2009 - 5:47 pm 108. Kipling:

White helmet @107

I’m not trying to engender sympathy. I think it is more important to deal with the problem accuurately. The GOP has always been split between the conservative and moderate to liberal wing of the party. We will not get another chance at governing if we continue to put the Bush moderate to liberal types in place – Colin Powell, Tom Ridge, McCain, etc.

I’m not too concerned about who the GOP will put up against Obama yet. The Democrats had not decided on a candidate in 2006 for the 2008 election and nobody was really worried about them at the time. I think the panic over GOP leadership is all a media driven farce. The primary process is already too long, lets not start it any earlier.

Jul 15, 2009 - 6:35 pm 109. myth buster:

The problem with voting for the lesser of two evils is that you always lose. Who cares if you vote for the winner if the winner doesn’t represent your beliefs? We cannot win elections by seeking the middle while neglecting the base; rather, we must convince the moderates that they want to vote for a conservative.

As for complaining, anyone who voted or who was too young to vote has a right to complain. Remember that the Republican Party started as a Third Party formed as an abolition party because the Whigs didn’t want any part in social conservatism. As for me, I voted for Sarah Palin for Vice-President.

Jul 15, 2009 - 8:10 pm 110. BettyBlue:

Freeus, we’ve been standing for what we stand for, and we haven’t been winning much support from RINO’s. Look how so many RINO commentators tore into Sarah Palin. It was, “Oh my gawd, the woman’s a hick!” They knew exactly what she was, what she stood for, and they made it clear how much they hated her, and people like her. I don’t think any kind of alliance is possible with them at the moment.

And, yes, I’m quite aware they pretend to be afraid of social Conservatives, and tell themselves the comforting myth that we’re all a bunch of snake-handling evangelicals, who are going to (gasp, shudder) make them feel guilty!

Now, I have known some actual, country club type, RINO Republicans; the problem is, their contempt for religion, family, tradition, etc. is nearly as rabid as the loony Left-wing.

Freeus, they know damn good and well that social conservatives aren’t all characters out of “Deliverance”, so trying to change their minds, or convince them we’re really nice people, isn’t going to accomplish anything. It’s the values themselves they hate. They will like us when we stop being so religious, stop following tradition, upholding the Constitution, and start being more like their posh, liberal, Ivy-League friends at the yacht club, and the local, ultra progressive Episcopal church.

And, let’s face it, that’s not going to happen.

And a lot of us have protested, and fought against, the dumbing-down of education, the destruction of black families, leading to inner-city chaos, drug abuse, the rise in crime, and none of it did any good. Not only were we accused of being bigots and racists, by the Democrats, but RINO types in what was (supposedly) our own party, told us we needed to be more “compassionate”, “crunchier”, less Evangelical, and, frankly, stop being such pains in the keister, and upsetting the status quo. Basically, we were supposed to give these guys our votes, and money, when they wanted it, but otherwise keep our mouths shut, and stop embarrassing them.

(As for “the church”—whatever you mean by that—not doing enough for the poor, and the inner cities, I’m not sure what you’re talking about. It’s Christian denominations that staff the homeless shelters, soup kitchens and many charities. And it was churches that tried to support families, and keep young,unmarried women from becoming pregnant, off welfare and that supported families with fathers. And, again, when they did that, they were jeered at for being bigots, and heartless prudes. “The church”, churches, Christians, have been trying to help. It’s not their fault they aren’t always successful. By the way—many “poor” people who show up at the soup kitchen I’ve volunteered at, show up with fancy cell-phones, ipods, trendy clothing, and, sometimes, seriously overweight. What, exactly, do you think Christians should be doing more of, for them?)

There’s a very deep divide here, and it can’t be bridged by getting a few Blue dog Democrats to vote for the next Octogenarian/white-haired/white rich guy the Republicans will try to run next time. Myself, I’m more interested in supporting a Conservative party, then I am a Republican party that’s exactly the same as the Democrats. I voted for McCain—actually, I voted for Sarah Palin, then watched as McCain and his team turned on her, blaming her for their own mistakes. And I’m supposed to support this party? It doesn’t support people like me.

Jul 15, 2009 - 9:12 pm 111. BettyBlue:

I mean, go back and read Jazz Shaw’s article! The guy convinced himself that the Democrats would be okay, and that they really, REALLY wouldn’t raise taxes this time, because he was indulging in fantasies about evil Evangelicals sending hapless gays to re-education camps, and America becoming too hawkish (hey, we haven’t had an attack since 9/11, right? So, what’s to worry about?)

This is not someone who has a particularly close relationship with reality.

Do you really think people like this can be changed simply by social conservatives saying, “Hey, we’re not all evangelical snake handlers! Honest!”

Jul 15, 2009 - 9:27 pm 112. Ken Hahn:

I’m not too worried about Whitey and Mike. Obama will destroy their pipe dream as it becomes clear that nothing he does works.

Jul 16, 2009 - 12:35 am 113. Gary Ogletree:

Who is this SCOTUS justice? Lots of blather, little content in the article.

Jul 16, 2009 - 4:53 am 114. AThinkingPerson:

Re: #100 White Helmet: The money to pay for Obama’s health care plan is coming from TAXES and not only on the rich which shows how uninformed you are (is that on purpose???)…

Please, allow me to highlight a few who will be paying “cash” (TAXES) for Obama’s nightmarish health care plan:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07162009/photos/news_graph.jpg

I know liberals love to high-five and do the happy dance when they think they’re sticking it to the rich people (funny how they forget these are usually the small business owners who create jobs). When liberals start being able to see past the noses on their faces and connect the dots from needing jobs to HELPING those who CREATE them, they’ll finally start making sense.

Jul 16, 2009 - 5:26 am 115. davimcg:

“[W]hat’s a libertarian independent isolationist to do?” How about waking the heck up, taking off your beige-colored glasses and seeing the world as it is.

What rights of yours have been trampled upon by Alito and Roberts? Maybe you prefer Stevens, Ginsberg, Breyer, et al., who basically stripped every American of their property rights in the Kelo decision? Or, I guess you agree with the majority when it upheld McCain/Fiengold, thereby trampling upon our First Amendment rights. I guess Thmomas’ and Scalia’s dissent in that case doesn’t dispel any of your irrational fear of this so-called conservative court.

All Americans want to live in peace with Muslim countries. However, who attacked us? I’ll give you a hint, it wasn’t those dastardly, intolerant “evangelicals”. And, which President or Presidential candidate ever stated their goal was to convert Muslim countries?

Jazz, just stop with the caricatured crap.

Jul 16, 2009 - 6:32 am 116. Meryl:

110.BettyBlue

“As for “the church”—whatever you mean by that—not doing enough for the poor, and the inner cities, I’m not sure what you’re talking about.”

Thanks to you and others for clearly and simply saying what we spearcatchers (thrown by the RINOs) have known all of our lives.

Not only are the churches consistently “doing for the poor” (and more often than not, then being targeted by the lazy), in our area, the churches are now gifting the public schools!!!

There has been a parade of bond issue votes in the region over the past few years. This past winter, due to the cut in funding from the state, there were more. Local taxpayers have had it. So they voted them down.

So now what do the schools do? Now they’re hitting up businesses (owned by taxpayers who are already supporting the schools) and churches (I kid you not)…for direct cash gifts over and above the property taxes everyone in both of these communities (churches and businesses) are already paying. And (I kid you not) one church where friends attend (in a small town) has given $5,000 CASH to the local school (not without some “discussion”–the people who gave that money to the CHURCH have already paid TAXES to support the school…go figure).

One aspect of this and other threads that I see is that conservatives have finally actually had it with being predictable and silent.

So they just call us names and ratchet up the predictable accusations.

Jul 16, 2009 - 8:46 am 117. White helmet:

Kipling at 108:

I don’t think you and I disagree at all. The GOP has fallen back into its pre 1980 mode of the “opportunistic opposition party”–looking only to garner support from disgruntled voters voters that feel the Democrats are spending or raising taxes too much. But the GOP stands for nothing anymore.

The Dems will make course corrections designed to woo disgruntled voters back. I’m not sure what the GOP will say that any disgruntled voter will believe. I mean right now, a GOP candidates promise of fiscal restraint sounds as genuine as Gov Sanford’s profession of fidelity.

I agree with what I think you are saying: the GOP will be no more than a rebound date for voters unless it stands for something more than “we’re not as bad as the other guy.”

The candidate selection process should start though, now and out of sight of the media: for decades the GOP put up experienced qualified candidates. Whatever one might think of their performance, Nixon, Reagan, Bush(I) and Ford all had solid records. The first two appealed lots of voters too. Bush I was on course to be a pretty good President too, until he lost his bearings, went native in D.C., raised taxes, and then looked at his watch during the debates. Failings aside, they were all respectable candidates. But now the GOP is commng up short on someone to challenge an incumbent President. They have no one the voters see as having “time and sweat equity.”

The GOP has to re-learn the ability to talk over the media too. They’ve become again, a party that talks only to each other in D.C.
Regards,

Jul 16, 2009 - 8:47 am 118. Moho:

The only problem with your presentation of yourself as a person “worried about taxes, fiscal discipline and intrusion” is that you seek to imply that these are not, and have not been issues with Republicans. The Bush administration, and the Republican party by extension, presented a radical economic, domestic and foreign policy that is really unique in the modern history of the US. Fighting two wars on credit, spying wholesale on American citizens and suspending the habeas corpus protections of the constitution [and yes, they did and have done so to "citizens", regardless of how you and others characterize them] and all the etcetera that any hominid with access to a television must now be aware.

The idea that it was a question of an incompetent, but fiscally responsible and constitution-upholding party on one side, and that of a spend-thrift and snoopy party on the other exists solely in your imagination. It may work here and for the 27% of Americans with very little critical thinking skills [also known as Republicans], but it won’t work on the wider electorate.

My advice to you, get off this sinking ship or you’ll find that the Republican brand being placed upon the Libertarian one quite quickly. If it hasn’t already thanks to nutballs like Glenn Beck.

Jul 16, 2009 - 9:29 am 119. Meryl:

“it won’t work on the wider electorate”

Are you sure?

The “wider electorate” are the fools who gave us Col. obama.

Jul 16, 2009 - 9:44 am 120. Sallie:

Paperback Nonfiction
Top 5 at a Glance

1. GLENN BECK’S ‘COMMON SENSE’, by Glenn Beck

a really good read

Jul 16, 2009 - 10:32 am 121. BettyBlue:

Meryl, yes, Conservatives are actually beginning to speak up, and getting tired of being predictable. Therefore, the name-calling and accusations are ratcheting up. How dare we ignorant, gay-bashing, evangelical snake handlers speak up against our betters? Don’t we know that our job is to donate time and money to the “Grand Old Party,” support it unquestioningly and vote for whatever pseudo-Democrat it’s pushing today?

It’s also, supposedly, our job to prove to our enlightened, and ever-so tolerant “betters” that we really aren’t the Inquisition, or wild-eyed Christian fanatics—the burden is on us to prove we’re something we’re not; the burden is NOT on our “betters” to climb out of their elite bubble, and actually get to know us! (Though, maybe they should.)

And, yes, Christians are already doing a lot of work for the poor, including bailing out all those compassionate programs both Democrats and Liberals assured us were so necessary to saving society.

I’ve also noticed that it’s always the “snake-handling” evangelicals/fundamentalists who spend time and money on these charitable things (as well as Orthodox Jews and “weirdo” groups, such as the Orothodox, or Hispanic Catholics); never “Crunchy Conervatives”, or “compassionate Conservative” types—certainly not the libertarian types.

P.S. Yes, it was the “wider electorate” who gave us Obama; so much for the wisdom of the electorate.

Jul 16, 2009 - 11:07 am 122. Moho:

Bettyblue:

Did you support the war in Iraq? In the elimination of right to habeas corpus for US citizens? Of invasion of privacy by undermining FISA? Of throwing trillions of dollars down the drain on two wars of choice?

Answer these questions. I don’t care if you’re conservative, I don’t care if you like gay people, and I don’t care if you’re a racist. If you really are a conservative, you would have opposed Bush as adamantly as you oppose Obama. Otherwise, you’re just a mistrel–no better than Beck the Clown.

Jul 16, 2009 - 11:38 am 123. BettyBlue:

Moho, I supported getting rid of Saddam Hussein. I supported going into Afhghanistan, to topple the Taliban. I didn’t support saying in Iraq as long as we did to try and bring “freedom” to the Iraqis (a pretty hopeless endeavor) and I didn’t support the rest of it.

Er, do I pass the “true-blue” conservative test? Do I get a gold star? A pony? Are you yourself a conservative, with a “I get to decide who’se conservative, and who isn’t?” license?

I opposed Bush on a lot of things. By the end of his administration, I was glad to see him gone. That still doesn’t mean I like Obama. And your point is. . . ?

Oh, by the way—I’m not a racist, and I don’t dislike gay people. I just don’t agree with Jazz Shaw that eeeeeevil conservatives are all trying to force them in re-education facilities, or that such a wrong-headed belief is a good excuse for fooling himself that voting for Obama was a good idea. Again, your point is?

I honestly don’t know much about Glen Beck, so I don’t know if I’m “better” than him or not. Nor, honestly, do I care.

Nor do I care about your opinion of me, Glen Beck, Consevatives in general, or, honestly, much of anything else. Not when you go around with that bilious chip on your shoulder.

Jul 16, 2009 - 12:16 pm 124. BettyBlue:

Moho, has it occurred to you that maybe I don’t support either the Republicans, or the Democrats? (And not the Libertarians, either.) I consider myself a conservative, though not one with a capital “R.”.

Jul 16, 2009 - 12:20 pm 125. BettyBlue:

Heh, I should have said, “I consider myself a Conservative. I don’t consider myself a Republican, certainly not one with a capital “R.”

Jul 16, 2009 - 12:34 pm 126. ked5:

12. Anonymous:

And people wonder why I advocate repeal of the 26th amendment and raising the voting age to 25 years of age.
~~~~

I think going back to the days of only property owners voting would be good.

Jul 16, 2009 - 3:10 pm 127. njcommuter:

One of my favorite observations is that you rarely get more than you pay for or less than you bargain for.

Jul 16, 2009 - 3:16 pm 128. ked5:

13. vonschtead:

I always said that no one should be allowed to vote without some knowledge of civics and the issues.

~~~
they haven’t taught civics for years. A group at a Vermont College had a petition table where they had many FEMALE signatories for their cause. The aim was to demonstrate how little civics college students knew. They subject these 95% of female coeds were supporting? ending women’s suffrage.

Jul 16, 2009 - 3:18 pm 129. Marc Malone:

Moho – Let’s just say you’re right about “eliminating habeus corpus”. This IS constitutional. Read the Constitution. In time of War, this is specifically allowed.

FDR did it. Lincoln did it. Lincoln even jailed the treasonous press and a couple political opponents. If Bush had done this, we wouldn’t have had the out-of-control press we have. FDR had censors on the press. No anti-war articles were allowed. No secrets were to be leaked. The Japanese in our country were imprisoned. Spies and saboteurs (terrorists) were shot out of hand when caught on the battlefield.

Sooo… tell me again how evil Bush was?

Jul 16, 2009 - 9:52 pm 130. Robohobo:

Jazz Shaw writes:

…what’s a libertarian independent isolationist to do? We have no party. We have no candidates. We’re simply faced with a perpetual series of bad choices, forever sacrificing either fiscal discipline and small government or diplomatic restraint and social progressivism.

I read somewhere a screed that made good sense. The short of it was that those who hide behind the moniker of “moderate” are just cowards who want it all, who cannot choose a side and are so squishy in their beliefs that they really and practically do not seem to have any. After reading this highly ’squishy’ editorial, I have to agree.

Jazz – My message to you is to go off, do some soul searching, decide what you do believe in other than nothing for sure and take a stance. IOW, grow a set, as it were.

Jul 17, 2009 - 9:44 am 131. WhyamInotsurprised?:

Jazz, quick! Get the person closest to you to knock you up side the head! Maybe that will get you into a sense of reality.

“… libertarian independent isolationist?” WTF is that? Sounds like a wet noodle to me!

Jul 18, 2009 - 12:45 am

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