Six Months of B.O.
How bad has it been? Bad enough to long for Bill Clinton. (Also read Roger Kimball: Get out of the way? Not likely.)
As much as Bill Clinton’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” approach to Islamofascism revolted conservatives, and as thoroughly as the leftist nutbag brigade continues to bash the equine carcass that remains of Bush and Cheney, you’ve got to admit that compared to life under the Obama administration, the Clinton/Bush years were the “good ol’ days.”
Remember when you could take the family out for dinner once in a while and you had a place to go every weekday morning called “a job”? Remember when your wife could watch her soaps during the daytime and your primetime TV wasn’t regularly hijacked by Teleprompter Obie delivering his latest desperate pitch to the remedial reading class that Congress has become?
These mopes don’t even bother to pretend to read the confiscatory legislation cooked up by their staffers and the lobbyists attached to them at the wrist and ankle. Listening to Henry Waxman (D-Lusus Naturae) placating the Algorian lemmings on cap and trade or lip-synching Obama’s health care rationing anthem while admitting the absurdity of trying to read these legislative boondoggles reminds me of Woody Allen’s character in Annie Hall:
I took a speed-reading course and read War and Peace in 20 minutes. It involves Russia.
Unfortunately, the rest of Obama’s agenda seems to be about Russia as well. Barackski has already empowered more czars than the Romanovs and has just broomed the auto czar who helped broker the government-assisted bankruptcy of GM and Chrysler. I guess (hat tip to comic Bob Zany) Obama just loves that new czar smell.
America’s Chicagobarry has actually placed the means of production in the hands of the gettelfingered proletariat: “Workers of the World, please provide an annual statement for the other primary shareholder — Uncle Barack.” Before long Obamski will be rolling out five-year-plans for the remaining industries he plans to nationalize and will be embarking on a whole new round of TV tub-thumping that should have Billy Mays rolling in his grave.
It would be different if Obama had actually hired a capable hand or two to help around the White House. You would think that by accident he might have made at least one good hiring decision. Remember when they called the staff assembled by JFK “the best and brightest”? The Obama squad is the least and the slightest. While simpering Tim Geithner at Treasury makes Eddie Haskell look forthcoming and sincere, Vice President Joe Biden continues to make Dan Quayle look like Stephen Hawking. Did they even bother to fill in those holes that the hair club for gasbags drilled in Biden’s head?
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Ralph Alter blogs at Right on Target.
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175 Comments
1. Snake Eater:At this point I’ll settle for Jimmy Carter back. Good lord what an unmitigated disaster this cretin Obama is.
Aug 9, 2009 - 12:20 am 2. steve:The Obama’s hate our country and European Americans also known as white people.
He said he was always attracted to Marxist professors and those who hated Euro-centresism. So he also hates our culture not just us.
He is an enemy of Christianity. I don’t buy for one nano second that he’s a Christian
The Obama’s are Marxists and black supremicists and they must be defeated at all costs.
Barack Hussein Obama is the biggest threat that our country has ever faced.
We can’t just vote this scum out of office because they will be right back.
Ronald Reagan only stemmed the tide.
WE NEED TLO ROLL IT BACK. BIG TIME!
We have to take the streets back.
Aug 9, 2009 - 12:51 am 3. steve:Bravo Ralph, well done!
How about Eric Holder does he care that:
Black on white crime should be one of the biggest items on America’s plate of issues but its never even discussed. BTW white on black rapes is 0.4%. Rounded off that comes to 0%. So much for the Duke Lacrosse rape case.
White people could live in a virtually crime free world if not for black criminals.
All we ever hear is how bad black on black crime is. Well I could care less. I’m concerned about black on WHITE crime.
Hugh Douglass a former Phila. Eagle defensive lineman turned talk show host who is also black did an Obama by accusing Phila. policemen of racism for arresting a black criminal for drug possession and not any white people in an auto when none of the whites posseessed drugs.
What this racist was lamenting is why don’t we have affirmative action for arresting white people. That is next on their agenda.
You’ll be sent to prison for being white for their quotas.
Not only does Hugh Douglass need some education on black crime rates, he needs to be taken off the radio on WIP 610 AM in Phildelphia unless they give a disclaimer about his political affiliation. That is the biggest sports talk station in America and its VERY political and VERY LEFT.
They promote at 610 WIP “sports” talk in Philadelphia all Left wing talking points and agenda.
Donovan McNabb the Eagles quarterback does the same with Obama promotion. He’s been collaborationg with Obama for at least 4 years. Notice the coverage that this perreinial loser on a great team gets on television.
Aug 9, 2009 - 1:15 am 4. arhooley:Jimmy Carter? Hell, I say let’s give ourselves back to England.
Aug 9, 2009 - 1:28 am 5. Dave II:Maybe Obama’s just going through a “growth phase”…yea, that’s it! He’s just getting flumaxed and bamboozled because it’s the first time he’s had to actually DO anything of real importance. No more moving on to that next “opportunity” in the ever-expanding Obamaland ego-driven narrative.
He’s IT! He’s now THERE! Nowhere else to go…no one else to blame (even though he can certainly try) nowhere to run and hide, nowhere else to go….but down!
It would be funny, seeing this Peter-Principled, Walter Middyish, Organizer-In-Chief trying his hand at being President…if it weren’t all so true and tragically real for our country. While his incompetance is one thing, it’s his dangerous Marxist knee-jerk reflex that is the most frightening.
One can only hope, between checks and balances, and the ingenuity and vastness of our great country…as little damage as possible will be permanent, but then…that’s the whole point of Barry’s ascension…to make as MUCH PERMANENT changes as possible in the shortest amount of time!
It will be a battle, and take a massive voter eye-opening shift in the political landscape to stop it from happening. It’s possible…but it won’t be pretty.
My guess is the next 3.5 years will be like a long march off a short pier. Obama disciples and converts, union drones, and “community organizer” thugs cracking the whip on those who won’t submit to Der Leader’s phantasy visions of a Blue-State utopia…complete with worthless IOU’s and a mortgaged future.
And your average American, shackled, silenced, pilloried, and mocked, dragging their feet because the ocean is red and the sharks have had a taste of blood!
Aug 9, 2009 - 1:28 am 6. Delia:You speak the truth.
“Barackski” the “Chicagobarry”? LOL!
Six months of stanky, ripe B.O. has truly stunk (and that new ‘Czar smell’ stinks to high heaven too).
♪The hate boooooat, scary and new…come aboard…we’ve been expecting youuuuuuuuuuuu.♪♫
Psst (over here…shhhhhhh. *whispering* Polyester ‘Pantsuits’ are the Feminazi version of a man’s ‘power suit’). You didn’t hear that from me though.
Aug 9, 2009 - 1:41 am 7. Patrick Of Atlantis:I was watching the Englishman Daniel Hannan last night on Glenn Beck’s show. He states the fact that the UK’s healthcare system is the third largest employer in the world after the Chinese Red Army and India Railway, and that administrators far outnumbers doctors. (That sounds like our present education system.)
Aug 9, 2009 - 2:09 am 8. Emma:So, it is logical to assume that if Obamacare is passed, there will be created many unnecessary jobs in healthcare such as the job Michelle Obama got after her old man got elected to the Illinois legislature.
Feels like six years, doesn’t it? He’s in our face so much that he seems more like a stalker than a president.
Aug 9, 2009 - 2:45 am 9. Alter, baby, scripting for Leno is your better bet.:Badinage does not op-ed make. Clever strokes here, there, snare readers’ attention, but asphyxiate early for want of substance. Your métier this is not. Faulty insights and skewed conclusions point to Stand-Up-forever.
Cody Saddler
Aug 9, 2009 - 3:14 am 10. AL:Over almost 250 years America had bright presidents, dim presidents, social or fiscal conservatives, big spenders, socialist presidents, hawks and appeasers, but never before America had TRAITOR as a president.
Aug 9, 2009 - 3:15 am 11. Formwiz:Anybody who longs for “the good old days” of Willie wasn’t paying attention at the time. While I agree that Obambi’s method of dealing with the country’s problems is calculated to destroy it (he did go to Harvard, after all), Willie swept everything under the rug (except interns) for the next administration to fix. And don’t get me even started on Carter …
Aug 9, 2009 - 3:24 am 12. Mongoose:I’d prefer W to all of them.
Obama is only doing what CLinton or Carter would have liked to do. They no doubt envy him.
Aug 9, 2009 - 3:38 am 13. vivo:Pajammers will gobble up and swallow this article, regenerating their inflated sense of dignity. They will feel good about themselves that such cascade of pejoratives is not only abundant but oh so accurate . . .
Have fun!
Aug 9, 2009 - 3:41 am 14. Chuck Pelto:TO: Ralph Alter, et al.
RE: The ‘Good’ Ole Days
Indeed. And I thought Bill was the epitome of Democratic unprinciples.
And I’m especially ‘impressed’ with the call for people to volunteer for a new duty MOS in the National Guard…..
Internment/Resettlement Specialist
Sounds like Bill Ayers dream to intern, i.e., ‘liquidate’, 25 million Americans who don’t accept Obama’s New Order just took another step forward.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Aug 9, 2009 - 4:25 am 15. Chuck Pelto:[Don't you just 'love it' when a plan comes together?]
TO: All
RE: A Town Hall Meeting
Yesterday one of my Senators in Congress held a Town Hall meeting.
At the meeting, one of the questions asked by an attendee was what the Senator intended to do about Gitmo. He seemed rather upset about the idea of holding people indefinitely. Even if they weren’t citizens of the United States. A number of the people in the audience agreed with his—in my opinion—ill informed opinion.
I have to wonder how they’ll REALLY feel when people like me get so interned. I have suspicions that these people are mere hypocrites and they’ll think the internment of their fellow Americans who disagree with them will be ‘just fine’.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Aug 9, 2009 - 4:29 am 16. LeighB:[Where there is no religion, hypocrisy becomes good taste.]
Comrade Bambiovich is taking us into unchartered territory, isn’t he? Thankfully we have cable channels and can avoid his state-run, er network, TV broadcasts.
I agree with all of your criticisms save one, Hillary’s doing OK. If she continues to do as well as she has, Comrade Thinskin will edge her out and she’ll be able to escape the Hate Boat. When the Cruise Director is Rahm instead of Julie, it’s not going to end well. For the passengers.
I would be delighted to have either Bush or either Clinton as President instead of Czar Stinky and Czarina HateAmerica. 2012 is going to be another exciting election year.
Aug 9, 2009 - 4:56 am 17. Anonymous:The slave media won’t say it. The TV shows that comment on the news won’t say it. So a lowly commenter on PJM, Rachel Peepers, has got to say it.
Every person, Democrat or Republican, that I talk to who knows America, its history, its heritage, its values; what it stands for, agrees.
Barack Obama is out to destroy America.
Alea iacta est. When Obama failed to instruct Eric Holder to proceed with the prosecution of those Panthers who were accused of voter intimidation, The Rubicon was crossed. The dye was cast.
On the basis of what he’s said and done so far, I am forced to deduce that President Obama intends to leave the U.S. bankrupt.
Leave us defenseless.
Leave us ill equipped to act as a free Republic in a global world.
He doesn’t want our official language to be English.
Doesn’t want “the pledge of allegiance” to remain in our chidren’s civics books.
Doesn’t want any limits on abortion.
Doesn’t want the second amendment to mean there’s a right to private gun ownership.
Doesn’t want free speech when it involves Presidential directives and programs.
Doesn’t want free enterprise to be the engine of Democracy as it’s been for more than 200 years.
Consequently, we don’t want Obama.
Consequently, America needs to march on Washington, and tell Barack Obama that, because he’s the wrong man for this job, he must resign. We demand it.
Barack will threaten us with the National Guard and Police if we disobey him. We’ll counter by saying they won’t follow him. And they won’t. Because they know what we say is right.
By saying that Crowley acted stupidly, Barack Obama effectively cooked his goose as far as the national guard and police are concerned.
A President with no enforcement power, has no power.
The regulars in the Marines, Navy, Army, Air Force and Coastguard, by constitution cannot take action against U.S. citizens within the United States.
When Obama and Holder determined that the Black Panthers were within their rights intimidating voters, they lost the confidence of America that they would protect Americans “against all enemies foreign and domestic.”
Within the month, we must march on Washington and literally take by our country. We will have to let all police in Washington know what we plan to do. And then we’ll do it.
We can’t wait another three plus years for Obama to completely destroy America. Barack Obama is treading on me. On us. Rather than protecting us, he’s complicit in sending union goons to attack us, and almost killing one of us.
I’m sorry. This is unacceptable.
Ilia iacta est. The dye is cast. The Rubicon has been crossed. President Barack Obama has demonstrated to America that he is no longer fit to be President.
We’re one step away. The next step is Washington.
Aug 9, 2009 - 5:03 am 18. DanRampage:B.O. is definitely the Manchurian Candidate, although one has to wonder how the entire Democratic Party and handful of RINOs can condone his increasingly radical agenda. As more common citizens successfully fight back against B.O.s policies, eventually some of this faithful (all of them being opportunists by nature) will try to peel away to save their own skins. In the meantime, I’ll keep my torch and pitchfork ready for when I get the word it’s time to march on Washington.
Aug 9, 2009 - 5:28 am 19. BC:Here we go: the dumb & clueless leading the clueless & dumb in bashing Obama in not quickly cleaning up enough the gargantuan mess left behind by a malicious fool most of you malicious fools probably voted for. He put a stop to torturing prisoners, put plans in action to revive the economy — which seems to be working, if you haven’t noticed, got back to pursuing the people and their supporters who actually were behind the 9/11 attacks, and is trying to reign in the cancerous growth of health care costs. And all you numbnuts can do is basically throw rocks, spray paint walls with nonsense, and poop in the streets.
Aug 9, 2009 - 5:41 am 20. no fear Obama:Clinton was a politician Obama is a 3 year old.
Aug 9, 2009 - 5:58 am 21. NurseZac:Amen, brother! The best recap of the first 6 months of BO that one can read. May God be with us for the rest; we are going to need Him!
Aug 9, 2009 - 6:12 am 22. Libertyship46:Who ever thought we’d see the day when the Carter administration would look more competant than the current administration? Now THAT is saying a lot. But the Obama administration is much, much, more sinister than Carter’s. Creating an enemies list at the White House, demonizing people who dissent from their policies, and actively trying to rush through legislation they know will bankrupt this country are all tactics even Jimmy Carter would have recoiled at. The Obama administration is really playing with fire here. The current American public is much better informed and has access to much more information than during the Carter Administration. If Obama thinks the American public will simply swallow all of the propaganda his administration is dishing out without questioning it, he’s sadly mistaken. Not only will he lose the next election, he could also be impeached for breaking a bunch of Federal Laws, not the least of which are the various privacy acts that were created after the Nixon Administration. Now that would be ironic, that the Obama administration, which once prided itself on “transparency,” is now running the risk of being as closed and as secretive as the Nixon administration. Now THAT is change you can believe in!
Aug 9, 2009 - 6:17 am 23. Thomas_L......:I love the smell of napalm in the morning! Bring on the trolls! Their heads are spinning.
Aug 9, 2009 - 6:28 am 24. Sebastian Shaw:President Clinton is just as liberal as President Obama in the same vein that they have no compunction to raise taxes to support their government programs; however, when the Republicans took control Congress in 1994, President Clinton had to change his tune or have all of his programs stall in Congress. The Republicans kept President Clinton’s liberal agenda in check. Therefore, yearning for Clinton back is somewhat of a misnomer.
I do agree President Obama is President Carter on steroids in that both men cannot lead children to the candy store with a map, $100.00 bribe for each child, & they have bureaucracies to look after the “leadership.” President Obama’s constant campaign mode is getting old, but this is all he knows: Campaign & lead with mod-style tactics of a hammer trying to thread a needle. The hammer cannot do all the jobs. It is one tool of many, yet all Obama knows is the hammer given his background as a community organizer for ACORN & other shadow organizations.
I do not want Jimmy Carter & Bill Clinton back, but we are stuck with the incompetent, arrogant, & just plain stupid President Obama for the next 3 years. However, I believe the next 3 years will be just as bad for President Obama as it is for us. Barry has to know campaigning & governing are 2 different things. But President Obama does not want to govern, he wants to be Dictator Obama.
Our Constitution is preventing Barry from becoming dictator. And those pesky 2010 elections….
Aug 9, 2009 - 6:29 am 25. sodacrackers:Give me Nixon any old day. I’d take Carter too; at least, he did nothing while in office. What a gift!
Aug 9, 2009 - 6:44 am 26. Max Power:..and a third world country is born. Chavez and Mugabe stand back, Barry will show you how it is done.
Aug 9, 2009 - 6:44 am 27. cedarhill:Well, at least Snake Eater knows that Obama “does not look like the other guys that have been President” since Obama’s IQ is shining through his skull.
Aug 9, 2009 - 6:45 am 28. AThinkingPerson:Mr. Alter, you had me when you wondered if they had forgotten to fill the holes in Biden’s head after he got hair plugs. Comedic genius!
Obama has at least succeeded in one area though, he single handedly vindicated George W. Bush.
Aug 9, 2009 - 6:59 am 29. SukieTawdry:Inauguration Day 2001 was the first I’d ever watched live so relieved was I to have Dollar Bill leaving town (although I was wishing he was taking Hillary with him). Today I’d consider him a trade up (although who knows what he’d be like in tandem with this Congress).
Aug 9, 2009 - 7:00 am 30. Ruebacca:Obama was clearly a crook and left wing nut before the election. His home was bought with kickbacks from a slumlord who had state funds funnels to him by Obama. Michel’s $300k job was also a kickback from a medical center that was funneled government money from Obama. Obama’s pastor and political associations were of the fringe loon-left.
The American people ignored all this and more. Pining for Bill Clinton wont help, though funny. We need to deal with the reality that we have.
Aug 9, 2009 - 7:03 am 31. AThinkingPerson:Re #21 Cedarhill: Sorry bub, that’s not Obama’s IQ “shining through his skull”, that’s his EGO.
Re #13 Vivo: We thank you, dear liberal overlord for permission to speak about The One today. Does this mean you’re going to waive reports to the White House nark site? We wouldn’t want you to miss out on any gold stars from headquarters you know. We’re Conservatives and Independents here, we care about our fellow Americans.
Aug 9, 2009 - 7:20 am 32. scythe:This is great stuff! Nothing works better than ridicule marinated in the truth. It’s driving the left wing “nutbags” around the twist. When I heard the Big Dog Clinton’s name mentioned the other day I had a momentary sensation almost like an out of body experience: a desire for the NOW seemingly staid and dignified days of the Clinton Era. It’s pretty pathetic that with each successive Democrat Victory we are fast approaching the oblivion of Marxism and a country we will no longer recognize or even connect with. This is the dialectic of the left. Who will be next? A man with a funny little mustache and an armband who will no longer have the need to “fake it” during the campaign?
Aug 9, 2009 - 7:24 am 33. ricpic:Despite all he’s done his skin color remains his teflon. All “proper” whites hold their powder out of fear, nay terror of the R word. The power of this taboo – thou shalt not condemn a black, ever – is so great that I see it outlasting Obama’s total destruction of liberty, which is to say America.
Aug 9, 2009 - 7:29 am 34. jharp:Very much enjoyed reading this and the comments.
Sucks losing, huh?
7 months in and Obama hasn’t fixed the debacle Bush left us? Imagine that.
Bush dropped a tree on our house and you losers whine about Obama having to spend some money to clean it up.
Sit back and watch, and you can teabag if you’d like, as Obama Care passes and the GOP spends the next two decades in the wilderness.
Aug 9, 2009 - 7:36 am 35. Sebastian Shaw:Sodacrackers, President Jimmy Carter ushered in gas shortages around the nation due to liberal legislation capping it, stagflation, he helped install the current Mullahs in Iran when before Iran was a ally until Jimmy Carter, & we had the hostage crisis from Iran. Jimmy Carter was never about roses, but it was the thorns. The same holds true for Obama. President Obama’s first term is President Jimmy Carter’s second term–30 years later…
Aug 9, 2009 - 7:59 am 36. jharp:Bill Maher is right. American’s are stupid.
This is the mentality of the anti health reform teabaggers.
“There was a telling incident at a town hall held by Representative Gene Green, D-Tex. An activist turned to his fellow attendees and asked if they “oppose any form of socialized or government-run health care.” Nearly all did. Then Representative Green asked how many of those present were on Medicare. Almost half raised their hands.”
Aug 9, 2009 - 8:03 am 37. Stephen Brady:I’ve already denounced myself.
Yep. I wrote to the nark site at the White House, and turned myself in as an enemy of the BO regime.
I encourage everyone who loves their country to do the same. Otherwise, we will eventually have a repeat of the regime that put Alexander Solzhenitsyn in the Gulags …
Stephen
Aug 9, 2009 - 8:06 am 38. Angry White Dude:Jharp, congratulations! You spewed the typical liberal talking points! Blame it all on Bush. Yes, one way Obama has cleaned up the Bush mess was to quadruple the debt in one year! Good thinking! You’re also wrong about Republicans spending the next 40 years in the wilderness. Obama and his merry socialists will kill the DemonRats for a generation. He has awakened the sleeping conservative giant and all Democrats will pay the price for a long time!
Disclaimer: AWD is not a Bush fan or a Republican.
Angry White Dude
Aug 9, 2009 - 8:21 am 39. Teacher in Tejas:#19 HA HA HA HA HA HO HO HO HO HEE HEE HEE HEE
“He put a stop to torturing prisoners,”
Really? Would this be the policy that Nancy Pelosi “forgot” she knew about and thought was ok? Funny how so many of those evil Bush policies are being continued.
“He put plans in action to revive the economy — which seems to be working, if you haven’t noticed,”
Wow, Hallelujah. That one tenth of percent dip in the Unemployment rate a few days ago has me singing “Happy Days are Here Again.” Whooo-hoo!
Also, he’s better than Bush in one regard, It took Bush six years to run up this kind of debt. Obama did it in one. Yeah, that’s something to be proud of.
A stimulus package full of worthless political pork, payoffs to ACORN and funding for long-surpressed Democrat wet dreams.
His “Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain” attitude about these spending bills. Just pass them, dont’ take the time to read them.
“got back to pursuing the people and their supporters who actually were behind the 9/11 attacks,”
We never really stopped that despite what you would like to think. And since you brought up Foreign Policy…
I just loved his “support” for the brave people defying thier government in Iran, his bowing Lewinsky-like to Muslim royalty, his non-stop apologizing for all the evil this nation did before it did the right thing and elected him, and best of all, isn’t it great that your president’s stance on the Honduran situation puts him on the same side as Hugo Chavez? Yeah that makes me proud.
“and is trying to reign in the cancerous growth of health care costs.”
Yeah, tell Grandma to take a pill and not have surgery. Don’t forget this is the guy who ordered his entire cabinet to find spending cuts and they came up with the princely sum of 100 million (I am doing my Dr. Evil, finger at the mouth thing right now).
“And all you numbnuts can do is basically throw rocks, spray paint walls with nonsense, and poop in the streets.”
I haven’t seen any of this, but tell you what. Let’s compare the pics I took at the Houston Tea Party with the pics from any of those Anti-Bush/Anti-War protests. Let’s look at which crowd was filled with regular American citizens who are amazingly ticked off at their government and lets see which one seemed to be filled with astroturfers, freaks and losers.
Let’s compare photos shall we?
Aug 9, 2009 - 8:22 am 40. Sebastian Shaw:Jharp, Americans are stupid because they voted for Barack Obama; however, most Americans believed Obama’s teleprompter words without really looking at the substance. Do you teabag Jharp? You seem to be obsessed with the word. This is what happens when you cannot think for yourself. Citing Bill Maher is just precious.
Use the flag@whitehouse.gov to turn me in Jharp! However, you should know it is unconstitutional & illegal since this violates several other laws.
Dictator Obama’s fall from grace is happening NOW! I wonder what’s going to happen when he competely cracks?
Aug 9, 2009 - 8:28 am 41. tanstaafl:I like Alter’s bandiage, #9.
“Algorian lemmings” is a keeper.
When Obama and Holder determined that the Black Panthers were within their rights intimidating voters, they lost the confidence of America that they would protect Americans “against all enemies foreign and domestic.”
Holder’s department just announced (re-announced) its intention to pursue CIA “torcher stuff” under the previous administration. (hard to believe the phony sympathy & self-righteousness expressed towards Guantanamo guys, even KSM finds it disgusting and has requested that the infidel put him out of his misery, aka martyrdom).
Our dept. of Justice will, apparently, be expending time, money & resources for an outcome that will be unsuccessful & murky at best.
Holder really wants to go down in history as the point guy for “getting” Cheney/Bush.
The crowd in DC is despicable.
Aug 9, 2009 - 8:30 am 42. Bilgeman:#15 Chuck Pelto:
“I have to wonder how they’ll REALLY feel when people like me get so interned. I have suspicions that these people are mere hypocrites and they’ll think the internment of their fellow Americans who disagree with them will be ‘just fine’.”
What a load of hooey. I doubt very much that anyone will be “interning” YOU, Colonel.
Burial in an unmarked grave, possibly, but taken alive?
Screw that…so that they can make you listen to Barney Frank speeches and John Tesh CD’s nonstop until your mind warps and you agree to go before the TeeVee cameras and tell the world how much you now LOVE the Alleged Hawaiian?
Taking a page from the Palis and going “splodeydope” seems FAR preferable.
Aug 9, 2009 - 8:33 am 43. Войска ПВО:34. jharp writes:
“Very much enjoyed reading this and the comments. Sucks losing, huh?”
Glad we could bring some joy to your mirthless, miserable, leftist existence. Stick around until 2010, bub, and you’ll find out how much losing sucks.
Aug 9, 2009 - 8:34 am 44. jharp:Sebastian Shaw:
“Do you teabag Jharp?”
Nope. It’s about the dumbest movement I’ve seen in my 48 years.
Protesting taxes after Obama cut taxes for 95% of us.
And the same ignorant redneck fools can’t grasp the fact that Medicare is a government single payer system.
And then there is the birthers. What can you say about those brain dead morons.
Aug 9, 2009 - 8:51 am 45. BillJ:Hello, Republic of Texas. Welcome to any other states wishing to join. Don’t worry, Obamastan is too weak and dispirited to do anything about it!
Aug 9, 2009 - 8:51 am 46. Anonymous:jharp, it might be helpful if you also pointed out, a] that Medicare stands to be reduced and given the demographics that coverage and procedures will be reduced also.
b] Mr Green, who you may think is clever, apparently can’t make a distinction between Medicate and the Government taking over the entire health care system of America. Bit of a difference there and differences exist to be noted.
Bill Maher seriously ought to be careful with the use of the word “stupid”, as should you.
The fool initially stated, and later stood by his comment, that as proof of America’s stupidity, remember, the fool is talking about the entire nation, no exceptions, he cited Sarah Palin. Without elaboration I give you and him in return a bona fide lunatic and moron, Joe Biden. What does that make all of America?
We need not go into what Obama has turned into in the glare of reality but Maher is still dumb enough to call this bumbling statist intelligent.
In any case jharp America cannot be totally stupid as Maher so brightly said. After all both you and he stand apart in your wisdom, so the exception disproves the generalized idiocy of his comment.
Aug 9, 2009 - 8:54 am 47. johnt:He must not have had his writers near by.
jharp, it might be helpful if you also pointed out, a] that Medicare stands to be reduced and given the demographics that coverage and procedures will be reduced also.
b] Mr Green, who you may think is clever, apparently can’t make a distinction between Medicate and the Government taking over the entire health care system of America. Bit of a difference there and differences exist to be noted.
Bill Maher seriously ought to be careful with the use of the word “stupid”, as should you.
The fool initially stated, and later stood by his comment, that as proof of America’s stupidity, remember, the fool is talking about the entire nation, no exceptions, he cited Sarah Palin. Without elaboration I give you and him in return a bona fide lunatic and moron, Joe Biden. What does that make all of America?
We need not go into what Obama has turned into in the glare of reality but Maher is still dumb enough to call this bumbling statist intelligent.
In any case jharp America cannot be totally stupid as Maher so brightly said. After all both you and he stand apart in your wisdom, so the exception disproves the generalized idiocy of his comment.
Aug 9, 2009 - 8:55 am 48. Ed Grove:He must not have had his writers near by.
BHO will make Jimmy Carter look like John Bolton by the time he is finished.
Aug 9, 2009 - 8:58 am 49. jharp:“initially stated, and later stood by his comment, that as proof of America’s stupidity, remember, the fool is talking about the entire nation, no exceptions, he cited Sarah Palin.”
An excellent example. The fact that 45% of American’s could cast a vote to have her anywhere near the White House says it all.
And Palin’s latest?
“The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama’s ‘death panel’ so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their ‘level of productivity in society,’ whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.”
– Sarah Palin, blasting President Obama’s health care reform efforts on her Facebook page.
Yeah right. Those are some smart American’s who take her seriously. That, my friend, is a whole lot of stupid.
Aug 9, 2009 - 9:15 am 50. Ruebacca:Jessie Jackson was right. Jackson knew before the rest of us that Obama will drive a person mad. You just have to spend a little time dealing with Obama’s arrogance and self serving lies. And you will start to day dream about….. too.
So if you think Sean Hannity or Rush were the first to warn you it was really J.Jackson.
RightWing
Aug 9, 2009 - 9:15 am 51. Big Red:Wookiee
I miss the days when all that were getting f****d in DC were interns.
Aug 9, 2009 - 9:18 am 52. Now and Then:Why isn’t anyone longing for Bush?
Aug 9, 2009 - 9:21 am 53. Ruebacca:Dear jharp
1/3 of the people left the country when we gave king George the boot. I hope Bill Mahr, Alic Baldwin and yourself find a better place when the “extra chromosome right wing” take this country back. Trig Palin uber allis!!
RightWing
Aug 9, 2009 - 9:22 am 54. adam:Wookiee
I wonder if anyone has yet inquired into what it says about the Left that they choose a word to smear their opponents that a decent person couldn’t say to a teenager. They are literally obscene in some very fundamental sense.
Aug 9, 2009 - 9:28 am 55. BC:To Teacher in Tejas: you know, comments like “HA HA HA HA HA HO HO HO HO HEE HEE HEE HEE” are usually the resort of people who have no coherent comeback, and you’re certainly no exception. Yeah, he stopped the tortures (which by the way, was causing major strife between the FBI, who was absolutely appalled it, and the CIA, which as usual thought, “What?”). What Pelosi knew or didn’t know about it during Bush’s term is not exactly the point, is it? As far as the economy goes, what you thought it went bad all of a sudden on January 20th? No, as much as you guys would love to spin things, the economy was becoming more and more a Vegas sports book the past several years, with the the SEC being especially oblivious to the shenanigans of the big brokerage firms. Blaming Barney Frank and the Community Reinvestment Act for the global financial collapse was never more than retarded BS — the vast bulk of sub-prime loans were issued by private mortgage companies not connected to CRS, and subprime mortgages went to people with good credit ratings as well as bad. All these mortgages were leveraged into gargantuan piles of phantom money via derivatives and other imaginary financial instruments. While there was plenty of warnings that was so not a good thing, all that phantom money made stock portfolios look so wonderful so why screw with it? And this was not just the case in this country.
The ACORN thing was always never more that right wing nutcase stuff — ACORN is a large umbrella organization involved providing all sorts of services for the poor and almost poor — finding them jobs, housing and so on — with its primary strength as being an advocate and lobbyist in behalf of the poor. If you’re into cherrypicking you can always find things to pick on in such a widely and loosely spread organization, but overall they appear to be a much more benign organization than, say, the RNC, Fox News, and such.
And as far as health care goes, it’s painfully obvious that many if not most of you attacking Obama’s plan have moved into the same neighborhood as the Birthers. If you really care about your Grandma, take her to Europe for treatment if she really gets sick — the quality of care for the elderly over there is already laughably better than it is over here. You guys seem to have no idea what an ever growing, money sucking mess the health care system is in this country, and the bean counters at the corporations involved in health care would really like to keep it that way, including doing what they can to keep cash flows a secret. Judging from a cursory look at Obama’s proposal, the bulk of the bill appears to involve putting in enough controls and oversight to make it as difficult as possible for people, hospitals, and the health care industry as a whole to hide or disguise where exactly that river of healthcare money is going.
As far as protests against Bush versus protests against Obama: in the first case you have people realizing a little bit belatedly that Bush and his people misled or lied outright about all the main reasons for invading Iraq, as well as how the war was progressing and how many civilians were getting killed; in the second case, you have mostly, it apprears, a bunch of badly confused, Google-challenged hicks getting all riled up by malicious, BS-spreading numbnuts like Limbaugh and Fox News commentators. There’s your comparison.
Aug 9, 2009 - 9:34 am 56. venividivici:Before the election, I said I’d prefer Trig Palin as President over Obama. I stand by that even more so now.
Aug 9, 2009 - 9:39 am 57. Delia:It’s pretty hard to ‘mask’ the pungent stench of 6 months worth of Barfy B.O. and his slap-happy side-kick, Botulism-Botoxed-Bug-Eyed-Pea-Brained, Pukey, Prozac Pelosi! Heck, even the angry, bible believing, gun-clinging, unwashed masses come out smelling sweet as roses by comparison to the whack job ‘rulers’ of the USSA.
All the bleating Soros trolltard hosers in the WORLD cannot convince sane, rational people who can read, hear and speak for themselves that this administration is anything but a SHAM [wow!] hell bent on transforming our United States of America into a third world arm-pit.
Wait a minute. Third world armpit? B.O.? Hmm.
Anyhoo. ALL of the politicians [of any political stripe] who are screwing our Country need to be RotoRootered out of the cretin infested sewage system of ego-driven elites… for good.
Hold on to your lug nuts, it’s time for an overhaul!
Aug 9, 2009 - 9:42 am 58. BC:Almost forgot: Bush was doing squat to get bin Laden and his supporters. Why do you suppose not only did the Afghan war ramped up so quickly after Obama took office, but there was also that burst of raids into Pakistan? That’s called “keeping your eye on the ball” among other things. The whole Iraq business was just one, big, sorry ass clusterf*ck from beginning to end, and you can just trashcan that whole surge business as being anything more than a slight face saving move after the Iraqis themselves were just so over having both the US and al-Qaeda use their country for basically a series of hugely destructive and blood-soaked war games.
Aug 9, 2009 - 9:52 am 59. Calvin Ball:I remember Rush and other critics criticizing Clinton for doing everything by the polls, and ignoring principles. Now we know what the alternative looks like. Give me Bill back, indeed. I’ll even settle for Hillary. Or even Janet.
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2008/11/obama-names-bill-clinton-to-president-post.html
Aug 9, 2009 - 9:59 am 60. trainer:#53 Delia – several LOLs.
Aug 9, 2009 - 10:03 am 61. Calvin Ball:As far as that goes, you want a black president? How about Ron Brown? I’d rather have Brown is his condition that Obama in his.
/Who did Brown piss off, anyway?
Aug 9, 2009 - 10:04 am 62. NahnCee:I wonder when it will occur to one of the brilliant newies in the White House that a whole lot of their problems would be solved if they could just get rid of Google.
///
Teacher in Texas said: ““and is trying to reign in the cancerous growth of health care costs.” The proper word would be “rein” as in to rein in a horse’s stampede. “Reign” refers to the length of tenure of Queen Elizabeth.
Teacher in Texas must either have English as a second language (”Hola!”), or be a liberal. Or both. (Doncha just love it a lot when a Real Live Democratic Obama supporter does post something, and reveal their gleaming world-class stupidity for everyone else to appreciate and savor?)
Aug 9, 2009 - 10:07 am 63. adam:“54. adam:
I wonder if anyone has yet inquired into what it says about the Left that they choose a word to smear their opponents that a decent person couldn’t say to a teenager. They are literally obscene in some very fundamental sense.”
Perhaps I should have said, couldn’t “explain” to a teenager.
Otherwise, I’d like to point out how encouraging the recourse to Bush-bashing is–it is a sign that the Left knows they have nothing else, and they are just repeating what they remember working in a different context. Far be it from me to tell anyone what to say, but the more the Democrats justify themselves by trying to make people recall the horrors of the Bush Administration that only existed in their own imaginations, the better–the more dogmatic, fanatical and obsessed they appear, and that’s not the kind of person you want making life and death decisions.
If they don’t get a health care bill through, it will be devastating, and the more they feel compelled to blame others for not letting them get it through, the less likely they will. For Democrats, it makes perfect sense to justify things by saying “the radical right is against it,” but it doesn’t make sense to anyone else. All that’s necessary is enough Democratic congress members who can be convinced that they will lose their seats if they vote for it. That’s where the focus should be. If the Administration had wanted a real dialogue and debate, they would have said, let’s take a year to work this through–they don’t, and we’d be suckers to pretend it’s playing out in that way. The idea is just to stop it.
Aug 9, 2009 - 10:15 am 64. Войска ПВО:Move over, Mark Steyn, there’s a new kid in town..
..great work Mr Alter! I am now officially a fan!
Aug 9, 2009 - 10:17 am 65. Commuter:49. harpo said:
‘The fact that 45% of American’s could cast a vote to have her anywhere near the White House says it all.’
I’ll leave it to someone else to eviscerate how amazingly ignorant this statement is on multiple levels and merely point out that being stuck on stupid is no way to go through life, harpo.
Sharper tools, please.
Aug 9, 2009 - 10:53 am 66. BC:And maybe “NahnCee” has ADS or general problems following non-monosyllabic threads: “I” had written “and is trying to reign in the cancerous growth of health care costs” in response to a dopey post by “Teacher in Tejas”. You got things completely back-asswards. And you might want to look up the word “typo” before going on and on about someone writing “reign” instead of “rein”. Gawd…. (that spelling was intentional, by the way, in case you are tempted to go on and on about that as well.)
Aug 9, 2009 - 11:00 am 67. BC:I suppose I have to now point out that I meant to type “ADD” and not “ADS” lest the self-appointed typo-police start using this to blame a librul edjukation for not being as dumb as doorknob and twice as dense.
Aug 9, 2009 - 11:08 am 68. Vega:“…to make as MUCH PERMANENT changes as possible.”
But why this all talk about PERMANENT changes which endanger America if Obama is not stopped (all his welfare state laws, health “care,” cap & trade stuff et al.)? There is no such a think as “permanent” changes! Sure, it can be difficult to reverse them once they actually ARE implemented, but never impossible.
Look: how long it took to dismantle all apartheid legislation in South Africa by their old parliament when proper time arrived? And who could expect that possible just few years earlier then? So, do not loose your hope!
Aug 9, 2009 - 11:14 am 69. collateral damage:68. Vega:
“…to make as MUCH PERMANENT changes as possible.”
But why this all talk about PERMANENT changes which endanger America if Obama is not stopped (all his welfare state laws, health “care,” cap & trade stuff et al.)? There is no such a think as “permanent” changes! Sure, it can be difficult to reverse them once they actually ARE implemented, but never impossible.
Look: how long it took to dismantle all apartheid legislation in South Africa by their old parliament when proper time arrived? And who could expect that possible just few years earlier then? So, do not loose your hope!
permanent in the sense that although in theory it can be undone …the reality is that it will not be.
not unlike bears gathering at the dump …if there is a free meal available it will be the food of choice. and yes the bear will bite those that feed it. ….I offer the following as examples …jharp, blarty, now and then, BC and the rest of the trolls.
….I don’t think the last chapter is written for south africa. the place is well on it’s way to ZimbabweII.
lots of people who have the means to are leaving.
Aug 9, 2009 - 11:30 am 70. Sherab Zangpo:This column is an excellent piece of English prose. Thank you and congratulations.
But I must repeat my sermon: the idiotic look of this administration must not induce us to think that the subversives are truly a gang of stupids.
What they are doing is Marxist Subversion 101: they are destroying what the marxists call the “material constitution” of a country.
They are not changing the rules of the game, they are changing the economic structure of the country.
When that is done, gone are the hundreds of years that it took to build the American might and America’s Freedom.
Delirious spending that will flare up inflation and can destroy the dollar,
cap and trade that will wound the productive structure of the country,
nationalization of health care that will put the political machine in control of everyone’s destiny:
these are three lethal steps, after which America will change forever.
We may laugh at them, but the subversives are not as dumb as we paint them.
People must wake up, the Republicans must wake up, and the “honest democrats” must wake up.
Otherwise there will be a long night ahead of us.
Thank you for the opportunity to comment.
Aug 9, 2009 - 11:36 am 71. billslayer:This is what one party rule gives us. NOW, are we going to allows ourselves to be hypocrites when the elections results roll in 2010 and 2012? Are we going to tolerate the republicans robbing the till the way they did under bush and the way the dems are doing under obama? I just want everyone here to remember that it was the pointless bailouts that bush signed into law that set the precedent for barry’s stimulus. I can’t stand Obama, but lets not get lulled into forgetfulness of that fact that we flsushed all of our principles down the commode when bush was king.
Aug 9, 2009 - 11:42 am 72. johnt:jharp, your embarrassing #49. It seems you have both a reading and fortitude problem. I make a number of points, not all of them touching on Palin. What do you do? You repeat the Maher/jharp stupidity about Palin, that’s it ! Deep, very deep.
But as universal health care presumes various types of care rationing, which your tin god himself has already mentioned, Palin’s remarks are no more starkly descriptive then the consequences inherent in the plan and the ample problems historically evident in other universal plans. It matters not that the accurate but blunt description doesn’t sit well with your delicate psyche.
And what happened to Joe Biden. no mention jharp?
Republicans in the wilderness, maybe, but for your sake ” my friend”, and more importantly for the normal people who live in this country, you better hope not.
Lots more but I’ll pass and bow out.
Aug 9, 2009 - 12:04 pm 73. myth buster:May I in leaving suggest that you routinely practice your stretching exercises for at least the next 3 1/2 years, particularly the one where you bend over & touch your toes.
You may love Obama but still you want to be ready.
Forget Brown, I’d take a professional athlete over Obama. At least we know the athlete wouldn’t be malicious. As for longing for Bush, I’d certainly like to have Bush back- the patriot Bush from right after 9/11, not the fascist Bush from the final six months of his administration. Even so, Obama at his best is at least an order of magnitude more fascist than Bush at his worst.
Aug 9, 2009 - 12:07 pm 74. tanstaafl:‘The fact that 45% of American’s could cast a vote to have her anywhere near the White House says it all.’
We’re talkin’ Sarah, again ?
A guy who writes plural “Americans” possessive is bashing Sarah’s intelligence ?
Sarah’s facebook page said that about Obama’s “end of life” proposals ? Makes sense to me. Sarah also might be a little ticked off that public financing for abortions is somehow, somewhere in that health bill Barry wants.
Of course, Obama will never know (exactly) the contents of that bill since he will never read it (reading is for peons).
Congresscritters, themselves, haven’t read the thing and one of them said last week before last (John Conyers ?) it would take a couple of lawyers and a couple of days to try to ’splain it to him. He probably wouldn’t get it then, but, is he voting “yea” on the thing ? You betcha.
Conyers’ wife was recently indicted on corruption charges, so he’s a little bit busy…too bad “cold cash” Jefferson getting convicted last week didn’t get more press (with all the other stuff going on). $90 grand in your home freezer in New Orleans is a good story.
Bill Maher, Chris Matthews, David Letterman, Katie Couric…such folks bashing Sarah’s intelligence is downright embarrassing, considering the source(s).
Aug 9, 2009 - 12:15 pm 75. Chuck Pelto:TO: Bilgeman
RE: Heh
Didn’t the Corps ever teach you about OPSEC?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Aug 9, 2009 - 12:16 pm 76. jharp:[The instant formal government [rule by Constitutional Law] is abolished, society begins to act. A general association takes place, and common interest produces common security. — Thomas Paine]
johnt:
“But as universal health care presumes various types of care rationing, which your tin god himself has already mentioned, Palin’s remarks are no more starkly descriptive then the consequences inherent in the plan and the ample problems historically evident in other universal plans.”
Anything that has a price tag on it is rationed, you dolt.
And even today “CONSERVATIVES SLAM PALIN ATTACK AS ‘CRAZY’”
“On “Meet the Press” this morning, David Brooks called Palin’s attack “crazy,” adding that “the crazies are attacking the plan because it will cut off granny. That is simply not true, that simply is not going to happen.”
“Similarly, Rep. Jack Kingston (R) of Georgia, who no one has ever considered a moderate, told Bill Maher there’s nothing to Palin’s attack. “It’s a scare tactic,” Kingston said. “No question about it.”"
“Even some political reporters who shy away from drawing firm conclusions have acknowledged the facts. The Washington Post’s Dan Balz said this morning, “It’s not the way to debate this bill, and it’s another example of Sarah Palin having difficulty figuring out how to enter into a serious debate about issues.”
I stand by my post #49. The fact that Palin got anywhere near being even remotely close to being our President is excellent example of the ignorance of America.
Aug 9, 2009 - 12:17 pm 77. Mike:Name calling does not help the conservative cause.
Aug 9, 2009 - 12:24 pm 78. jharp:Ponder on this, teabaggers. From David Frum, a conservative!
http://www.newmajority.com/what-if-we-win-the-healthcare-fight
“The problem is that if we do that … we’ll still have the present healthcare system. Meaning that we’ll have (1) flat-lining wages, (2) exploding Medicaid and Medicare costs and thus immense pressure for future tax increases, (3) small businesses and self-employed individuals priced out of the insurance market, and (4) a lot of uninsured or underinsured people imposing costs on hospitals and local governments.
We’ll have entrenched and perpetuated some of the most irrational features of a hugely costly and under-performing system, at the expense of entrepreneurs and risk-takers, exactly the people the Republican party exists to champion. [...]
Even worse will be the way this fight is won: basically by convincing older Americans already covered by a government health program, Medicare, that Obama’s reform plans will reduce their coverage. In other words, we’ll have sent a powerful message to the entire political system to avoid at all hazards any tinkering with Medicare except to make it more generous for the already covered.
If we win, we’ll trumpet the success as a great triumph for liberty and individualism. Really though it will be a triumph for inertia. To the extent that anybody in the conservative world still aspires to any kind of future reform and improvement of America’s ossified government, that should be a very ashy victory indeed.”
Aug 9, 2009 - 12:25 pm 79. Calvin Ball:O.J. Simpson for prez? Let me think about that one.
Aug 9, 2009 - 12:48 pm 80. Class Clown:“remedial reading class” = Congress? Now THAT is funny!
Aug 9, 2009 - 12:48 pm 81. Calvin Ball:That’s known as the greengrocers’ apostrophe, or simply grocers’ apostrophe:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostrophe#Greengrocers.27_apostrophes
It’s generally a sign of inferior education.
Aug 9, 2009 - 12:54 pm 82. Calvin Ball:Uh-oh. We’ve all been pw3ned. Frum hath spoken. Can’t not obey the authority figure…
Aug 9, 2009 - 12:56 pm 83. tanstaafl:If there’s nothing to Sarah Palin’s claim about “rationing” for the elderly, then why, oh why, did this President himself say that this person mother, age 99, (yeah that’s old) with arrhythmia might be better off taking a pain pill instead of getting a pacemaker ?
These ideas about rationing just don’t descend out of the sky.
Not to mention the blatant and crass ignorance that a guy who presides over 57 states & says he doesn’t speak Austrian doesn’t even know that an irregular heartbeat isn’t a pain issue ?
Obamacare: Take a Painkiller for Arrhythmias
Aug 9, 2009 - 1:00 pm 84. venividivici:a lot of uninsured or underinsured people imposing costs on hospitals and local governments.
Can someone please quantify this? Assuming there are 47 million “uninsured”, that’s about 15% of the total population. Since about half of those uninsured are either at the age where they don’t need much health care, that means we’re down to about 10% of the population (taking the high end of the estimated range). Let’s assume of that 10%, half of them get health care but can’t go on a payment plan to cover the costs (I know that I was once chased down for a bill I had neglected to pay years after the fact, so it’s not as if everyone who can’t pay in full on the day of treatment is getting off scot-free). Let’s also assume that the health care needs of that population are twice the needs of the rest of the population. That means 7.5% of all health care costs are then spread to the paying population. While not optimal, this is hardly some grand crisis.
It’s symptomatic of this whole ginned-up crisis, when the fact is that a large majority of those with coverage are satisfied. The fact is that the kind of program ObamaCare will likely aspire to be is the same crud they are running up in Mass. (no surprise, since Axelrod is the man behind Obama and Patrick) and it is failing to control costs. Having the entire country get on that same path is lunacy of the sort only the Left, which has failed miserably in every country it’s gained power, would recommend.
Aug 9, 2009 - 1:14 pm 85. tanstaafl:Tommy Daschle was just a heartbeat away from health & human services (the also-tax- challenged, lover of abortion doctor Tiller (well, not literally, lover, but he schlepped a lot of cash her way when she was governor of Kansas) Kathleen Sebelius got the gig.
Much about the current medical marketplace, in my experience, stinks, much of which smell (speaking of B.O.) involves exploitation of Medicare & too much involvement of insurance companies in medical decisions.
However, Obama & his minions (and Daschle is very much in Obama’s “healthcare” strategy, albeit not as obviously as he might have been had he not been a tax cheat and missed the cabinet appointment)
This “plan” is for increasing control over an aspect of American life in which the federal government should never have become involved in the first place. And “rationing” is very much on their minds.
This government, literally, wants to play a much bigger role in medical decision making than the current travesty of private insurers doing that.
Obama Will Ration Your Health Care
Aug 9, 2009 - 1:20 pm 86. trangbang68:Curious, my comment got deleted in which I tried to make a satirical point of how liberals routinely stereotype opponents of Obama’s Magical Kingdom while I see the liberal troll crowd regularly treat everyone else here with sneering disdain. It must be their right as the new ruling class. Sorry, back to my gruel, massah, please don’t whip me no more.
Aug 9, 2009 - 1:20 pm 87. Commuter:harpo screeched:
‘Ponder on this, teabaggers. From David Frum, a conservative!’
Ah, there’s the reading comprehension challenged, blind linking, harpo tool we’ve come to expect.
I suggest that those capable of following David Frum’s logic, or logic of any sort, attend to his follow up article. Anyone who actually knows David Frum’s opinion of Obamacare would expect it, and so is not disappointed.
http://www.newmajority.com/reforms-conservatives-can-favor
Reforms that are not income redistribution from our pockets into the harpo types, and therefore approaches harpo would not favor.
Blown out of the water again, harpo. Think you’d learn.
Sharper tools, please.
Without the self-loathing obsession with teabagging desparately projected as homophobic stigmatization of good folks would be nice.
Aug 9, 2009 - 1:38 pm 88. venividivici:It must be their right as the new ruling class
I believe this was also the attitude of the French aristocracy right before…you know.
Aug 9, 2009 - 1:51 pm 89. Chuck Pelto:TO: All
RE: jharp
Using THIS logic, obviously, we have only Clinton to blame for the 3000 dead on 9/11.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Aug 9, 2009 - 1:57 pm 90. adam:[The Truth will out....]
“1. Avoid profanities or foul language unless it is contained in a necessary quote or is relevant to the comment.
4. Hate speech is not tolerated here.”
I would like to ask the moderator why “teabagging” doesn’t violate both of the above quoted posting guidelines. It is profane, insofar as it alludes to a sexual practice that, if described literally, would never be mentioned in public discourse. And it is hate speech, doubly–it is projected onto social conservatives as the thing they presumably hate (which means it is a word the user presumes expresses hatred toward homosexuals) and at the same time incites hatred towards social conservatives, or Christians more generally. I certainly wouldn’t want there to be a law against it, but since you have every right to impose certain norms on this site, and since I believe you are right to do so, why not set a precedent and ban this most vile of recent hate terms? I am completely serious here–the use of this term is really no different than if you were to refer to people you consider racist as,say “ni**erphobes”–would you allow that?
At the very least, it will be interesting to see how those addicted to its use will do without it.
Aug 9, 2009 - 2:02 pm 91. Sebastian Shaw:Jharp, How can Obama claim with an ounce of credibility when Obama QUADRUPLED the deficit with the so-called “stimulus” he signed into law in January 2009? Furthermore, unemployment will reach 10% at some point very soon. And more private jobs will be lost in the interim. I believe unemployment could get between 10-14% due to President Obama’s so-called help. At some time, the “stimulus” will have to be repealed &/or outright cancelled to stop the bleeding.
President Obama cannot complain about deficit spending when he himself–along with Congress–increases it four fold! It’s like having Jack the Ripper operate on you as a surgeon.
Aug 9, 2009 - 2:09 pm 92. goy:Meanwhile Hillary Clinton and Janet Napolitano vie for the “Emptiest and Least Attractive Pantsuit in a Color Not Found on this Planet” …
Bravo! That one wins the BSTMN, ROTFL Award for Sunday, August 9, 2009!!
I see the trolls (or, maybe it’s just one troll) are pulling out every debunked talking point and every discredited faux “conservative” (e.g., Frum? LOL!!!!) in response to this paean to Clinton. One wonders why. Clinton actually furthered the progressive cause. Obama and his inept, corrupt administration and pet Congress will discredit same for decades.
How did this happen? Simple. The Clintons were experienced politicians. They knew better than to insult middle America directly to its face.
But BHO is an inexperienced, narcissist thug who has begun drinking a little too much of his own kool-aid. He’s created a public snitch line to suppress open dissent by the very people who built this country. In a single speech he has contradicted himself by first claiming he’ll “listen” and next telling the opposition to STFU! His complete lack of real executive experience in dealing with anything but the Sure Thing® endemic to Chicago-style politics continues to take its toll on his approval ratings, which have exhibited a downward trend since the day he was inaugurated.
The worm will finish its turn when it comes time to pay the piper for the Democrats’ spending spree and unprecedented federal debt they have created. Even if he passes some form of health care bill, it will use up any political capital BHO has left, leaving nothing for the cap-and-tax scam he planned to use to pay for socialized medicine, health care redistribution and the other entitlement programs Democrats hope will keep them in power. That will leave only the American Taxpayer – that is, the working people who own businesses, have real jobs and actually PAY taxes, rather than receiving tax credit checks – to foot the bill for the largess the left uses to stay in control.
BHO and Congress will have no choice but to break the one campaign pledge he dares not break, which is to raise taxes on the middle class. That well spell the downfall of BHO’s pet Congress – just as it did for Clinton’s, after he pushed through a record tax increase in ‘93. And if the GOP – pushed by angry conservatives who now know what’s at stake – learns anything from the Clinton years, they will implement REAL change, like the capital gains tax reduction that dug the economy out of the doldrums in ‘97 following the Clinton tax hikes. That will spell the end of BHO and his ilk, just as it did for Gore.
This past week of nascent violence portends a reckoning. And everyone knows how fast the bully runs when confronted.
Aug 9, 2009 - 2:12 pm 93. Bear:BC you’re so clever!
Obama’s mistake is telling us there is a compelling event for this legislation. (only in the minds of politicians)ie. that it needs to be done now or it will never happen. Pray tell me why is that so?
If they truly wanted reform, they wouldn’t be pushing so hard…liberals are so disengenous it is pathetic. But today’s liberals really aren’t liberals at all. I think we’ve established that fact.
To borrow a line from Bill O’reilly, who also at times shows the milquetoast he is, I didn’t get the ‘talking points memo’
Aug 9, 2009 - 2:16 pm 94. rachel peepers:Sad, but true. After only seven months in office, poor, misguided President Obama has overstayed his welcome.
He’s brought with him to much pro-socialist ideology for most Americans to stomach.
Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of his life, Barack may very well regret taking America down ruination highway.
One day soon the highway into Washington will be filled with patriotic marchers to protest; to let Barack know we’re not happy with him. We want a change. And who knows better about the need for change than a brown eyed handsome man, himself.
Aug 9, 2009 - 2:34 pm 95. Paul M Hupf:Hope and Change? During his campaign for the Presidency, Barack Obama promised “hope and change”. But he never defined those terms. What they mean to him is now being revealed and it is frightening. What they mean to him is this: I will bring change that I want, not necessarily what you want. I hope you will like it. You had better or else!
Aug 9, 2009 - 2:53 pm 96. billslayer:JHARP?
Are you ever going to comment on whether the tent revival con man (whose election proves the ignorance of america) AKA Sweet Little Barry was strictly Pay for Play with Big Daddy Rezko or if he was actually Gay for Pay with the indicted slumlord ?
Aug 9, 2009 - 2:58 pm 97. steve:#78.
David Frum is a liberal.
Aug 9, 2009 - 2:58 pm 98. Chuck Pelto:TO: All
RE: How Bad Can It Get
Three guesses.
He’s provided US with a good clue on his Operational Concept. And, NOW, evidence supporting its implementation.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Aug 9, 2009 - 3:05 pm 99. Chuck Pelto:[If you're not getting concerned you are either not paying attention or you're part of the problem. Maybe even both.]
P.S. As FURTHER evidence supporting my understanding….
….has ANYONE a link to a credible source where Pelosi, Reid, Rahm, Griffin and/or Obama have repudiated the attack on Gladney?
If not, then their individual and collective silence MUST support it.
[Gird up your loins.]
Aug 9, 2009 - 3:09 pm 100. Calvin Ball:Ewwww.
But six months of B.H.O. would be racist. Or something like that.
Aug 9, 2009 - 3:14 pm 101. elvis:Please tell me this article is full of lies, or you were just kidding please Ralph…. I’m begging you…
These people love Obama that keep showing up on PJM almost have me convinced that Obama is the “ONE” and Sarah Palin is stupid because Obama is the “ONE” because Sarah Palin is stupid because Obama is the “ONE” ……………..
Oh wait Ralph you don’t need to tell me this article is all a lie… I figured it out myself by writing over and over the following; because Sarah Palin is stupid because Obama is the “ONE” because Sarah Palin is stupid…
Gee Ralph how can you not see how ill informed you are? Oh, by the way “ you have acted stupidly” on top of that. After all 95% of the American taxpayers got a tax cut!
Shame on you Ralph … you are so full of hate ……. how can you write this after 95% of American taxpayers got a tax break and because Obama is the “One” because Sarah Plain is stupid, oh wait and you must be a hate filled “teabagger” “that acts stupidly” too.
Ralph…… how dare you not love Obama… he is going to provide healthcare for every SINGLE American and illegal in America because he is because he said so and Sarah Palin is stupid. It doesn’t matter what the healthcare bill says. Just listen to Obama, because he is the“ONE”
Shame on you again … you must be a birther too… and I bet you want to see the grades he got when he went to all those colleges. How low you are Ralph… seriously, you people here let so many facts get in your way.
Aug 9, 2009 - 3:26 pm 102. vivo:31. AThinkingPerson:
“Does this mean you’re going to waive reports to the White House nark site?”
U r obviously paranoid. U still don’t understand who I am, do you? What so difficult to understand?
36. jharp:
“Bill Maher is right. American’s are stupid.”
It’s all due to the educational system and religious brainwashing. But there are some good hard workers and ethical people around. Our healthy children are our hope.
44. jharp:
“And then there is the birthers. What can you say about those brain dead morons.”
They wouldn’t understand the intricacies of getting a driver’s license at a DMV . . .
46. Anonymous:
“In any case jharp America cannot be totally stupid as Maher so brightly said.”
You do understand that a universal statement has exceptions, do you? Now you do, I hope so.
52. Now and Then:
“Why isn’t anyone longing for Bush?”
Do you really expect an answer?
70. Sherab Zangpo:
“This column is an excellent piece of English prose. Thank you and congratulations.”
Pajammers will gobble up and swallow this article, regenerating their inflated sense of dignity. They will feel good about themselves that such cascade of pejoratives is not only abundant but oh so accurate.
Is that what you refer as ‘excellent’?
71. billslayer:
“I can’t stand Obama, but lets not get lulled into forgetfulness of that fact that we flsushed (sic) all of our principles down the commode when bush (sic) was king.”
Yes, history is history.
74. tanstaafl:
“Bill Maher, Chris Matthews, David Letterman, Katie Couric…such folks bashing Sarah’s intelligence is downright embarrassing, considering the source(s).”
The truth is embarrassing?
90. adam:
“I would like to ask the moderator why “teabagging” doesn’t violate both of the above quoted posting guidelines. It is profane, insofar as it alludes to a sexual practice that, if described literally, would never be mentioned in public discourse.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teabagging
Aug 9, 2009 - 3:35 pm 103. Bear:vivo
you embarass yourself
Aug 9, 2009 - 4:01 pm 104. ic:“Barackski has already empowered more czars than the Romanovs…”
As a matter of fact, Barackski has more czars than the Russians ever had in their entire history.
4. arhooley:
“Jimmy Carter? Hell, I say let’s give ourselves back to England.”
Sorry, we are past the date of no return, even Walmart won’t take us back.
Aug 9, 2009 - 4:09 pm 105. Anonymous:I know if we wait long enough, jharp is going to self destruct. I can almost feel the steam coming out of his/her/it’s ears. Funny how pointing out the truth always makes liberals foam at the mouth.
jharp, c’mon, froth some more buddy. We love reading your fury. Quite satisfying really.
Aug 9, 2009 - 4:14 pm 106. Commuter:#78.
‘David Frum is a liberal.’
A defensible position, though I would have said moderate. Regardless, you can be either in your personal politics and still be conservative about social engineering. Frum is passionate about his belief that there are problems with the health care industry that need to be addressed. But he’s no progressive. Which makes all the difference. Frum understands that the market place is where the solution lies and the governments role is to promote the conditions that will allow that, not socializing health care.
Aug 9, 2009 - 4:21 pm 107. adam:“90. adam:
“I would like to ask the moderator why “teabagging” doesn’t violate both of the above quoted posting guidelines. It is profane, insofar as it alludes to a sexual practice that, if described literally, would never be mentioned in public discourse.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teabagging”
Yes, I understand that the term would be defined in Wikepedia and I’m sure in novels, magazines catering to gays, etc., etc., and, in a sense, that’s “public discourse.” But, of course, you will find terms like “f*ck,” “c*cks*ck*r,” “c*nt” and many, many other obscene terms in such “public” places. (How it’s depressing to have to speak to such literalistic cretins!) The point is, either “profane” and “foul” language means something or it doesn’t. If only words that aren’t in Wikepedia are foul or profane, than it doesn’t mean anything–it should be removed from the “Guidelines.” Generally, for normal adults, “profane” and “foul” is contrasted with language use that seeks to be inclusive and not offend unnecessarily, or denotes language use that refers to acts and things that we usually don’t speak about with strangers (for Leftists: I don’t mean the kinds of strangers you meet on line for precisely these purposes…) or casual acquaintences, like detailed and/or blatant descriptions of sex acts and organs, in particular slang, as opposed to what you might find in conventional or medical dictionaries, etc.
Having said that, I would really like to hear what the normal adults (i.e., not leftists) here, and the moderator in particular, think of my request. Again, I would ask you to ask yourself: if your fifteen year old asked you to define “wingnut” or “moonbat,” you wouldn’t have a problem–is the same true of “teabag”?
Aug 9, 2009 - 4:50 pm 108. Chuck:Let’s all move to Canada where the real utopia is! Hopefully, our country is strong & resilient enough to absorb and recover from the tremendous damage Obama/Biden/Pelosi/Reid are inflicting and will continue to inflict.
A previous poster said Trig Palin would be better than BHO, which is probably true (heck, flipping a coin would be better than Sonia Sotomayor for the SCOTUS), but I say:
LANCE ARMSTRONG FOR PRESIDENT!!! He’ll put the arrogant Euro-wienies in their place, make riding a bike fashionable so the oil companies are brought to their knees and gas gets back to $1.50/gal, and kick the living daylights out of the sawed-off Kim Jong Il and Ahmadinejad! Viva Lance!
Aug 9, 2009 - 4:55 pm 109. AThinkingPerson:Re #102 Vivo: You miss the point. I don’t give a flying fig who YOU are. I care that you’re offering support to an oppressive regime that is currently actively trying to silence it’s own citizens. Not only is the Obama regime now trying to silence dissent, the “liberal” party is now trying to do the same. Hello? ACLU? Curious how silent they are on this issue suddenly.
Liberals are no longer “liberal”. They proved themselves to be inept, castrated party hacks who stand for nothing but furthering Obama’s dream of reparations during his Presidency.
Liberals would rather save an albino ant in a septic tank than the rights of fellow Americans.
So, Vivo, you might tell your liberal friends at ACORN and the Black Panthers and Code Pink and the Rainbow Coalition that their days are numbered. The mobs are at the town halls and will soon find their way to Washington.
Aug 9, 2009 - 4:58 pm 110. jharp:“Hello? ACLU? Curious how silent they are on this issue suddenly.”
I think, not sure, that you are mistaken. I cannot find anything yet I sure seem to remember reading something.
Contact them. You might be surprised.
http://www.aclu.org/
Aug 9, 2009 - 5:06 pm 111. AThinkingPerson:Yet more of Obama’s HopeNChange: The deficit went up by 181 BILLION in July alone.
http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/deficit-grew-by-181-billion-in-july-2009-08-09.html
That Obama is an economic GENIUS isn’t he?
Aug 9, 2009 - 5:15 pm 112. goy:- “Frum is a liberal”
jharp should have actually thought about Frum’s article before he stupidly tried to use it to beat conservatives with. Regardless of his political affiliation, in that uninspired excuse for a column, Frum demonstrates that he is out of ideas and incapable of thinking outside the box – just like the left. That would be the box we have ALL taped ourselves into regarding health care.
All-too-rarely in any of the discussion on the health care “crisis” does anyone ever talk about how to get health care costs back in line with other commodities, or what has been causing them to skyrocket – at rates multiple that of inflation – for decades.
The system of socialized medicine we currently have – which is run by a proxy monopoly of insurance companies instead of the feds – has lulled Frum and those who think like him into a false choice. That false choice is that either (a) we allow inertia to keep things as they are, and continue to suffer with a broken system or (b) we allow the government to try something else. (A) isn’t working and if history is a guide, (b) is a socially suicidal alternative.
There are some very basic reasons why we have a health care “crisis”.
1. At one time everyone paid for quotidian health care directly. And the cost of that health care remained affordable. Ask yourself why.
2. The vast majority of health care goods and services fall into the category of commodity. Yet the normal economic mechanisms that keep all other commodity prices affordable are completely neutralized in the case of health care. Ask yourself why.
3. Insurance is a tool for mitigating financial risk. But when it comes to health care, for some reason we have come to use insurance as a tool to redistribute wealth – in reverse – by distributing the costs of ALL our health care over a larger group (i.e., those in our health care plan). Again, ask yourself why.
The answers to all the above can be explained by the one thing we need to do to stop health care costs from skyrocketing, and it isn’t “tort reform”.
We need to eliminate the comprehensive health care insurance scam.
This scam, as it presently operates, is not much different from BHO’s wealth redistribution scam – taxing the productive and handing the money to those who pay no taxes.
At best, using insurance to pay for ALL health care is a stupid misuse of insurance and, at worst, a dangerous Ponzi scam that is driving health care costs up. Back when people paid for most health care directly, they took out high-deductible, ‘catastrophic’ policies (still available today) to mitigate the REAL risk of unforeseen, financially crippling health care expenses. Today, hardly anyone does this, even though it’s the most economically sensible approach for the individual and family.
The answer to the false choice Frum and his like-minded ilk peddle is this: we need to address the skyrocketing costs of day-to-day health care. Not only that, but we need to allow the free market to do it through proven commodity price control mechanisms, NOT federal wage and price controls. The way to do this is through ACTUAL insurance and health care reform, which is the antithesis of turning the whole thing over to the government.
If we ever see TRUE health care and health care insurance reform, it will have to involve some variation of the following. Other approaches simply pretend to “cover the rising costs” of health care. Instead, we need to address the major factors that have driven health care costs to skyrocket in the first place. If we fail to do this, we’re screwed regardless of WHAT system we use to pay for it:
** Eliminate comprehensive health insurance plans, just as all other Ponzi and wealth redistribution scams are treated. Do this through legislation over a period of 5-7 years. If we can’t break out of the box we’ve taped ourselves into and realize that this is vital, we will either go bankrupt paying for health care in 20-25 years using our present broken system, or we’ll lose our quality health care – and ultimately our liberty – to socialized medicine. Those are our choices.
** Transfer 95% of all monies that were being paid by employers to comprehensive health care insurance companies back to employees. Everyone enrolled in a health care plan at work gets an instant annual raise of from $4,000 to $16,000 per employee / family, or more, depending on the cost (to the employer) of the plan they’re in. New hires may not see this increase if they take a job with an unscrupulous employer, but this mechanism is only intended to help individuals and families cover the direct-pay costs of quotidian health care while other mechanisms phase health care costs back in line with other commodities anyway.
** Direct the remaining 5% into a state (not federal) level fund that’s distributed to health care providers to recoup costs of providing care to those unable to pay (e.g., per EMTALA). This compensation will be means-tested based on the facility’s patient demographics and inversely proportional to the tax breaks they may already be getting in their municipality (tax freeloaders like Yale-New Haven Hospital spring to mind). This contribution has a permanent 5% cap.
** Through tax credits (remember, we’re now being taxed on larger incomes – see above), encourage the use of catastrophic plans for catastrophic illness and injury, and administer these as group plans through local municipalities), not through employers (Krauthammer has finally seen the light on this, recently). Municipalities can take advantage of enormous actuarial group sizes, compared to small businesses, and they already have all the mechanisms in place for collecting and paying out funds. Since most people are far more active in local politics than any other, municipal plan administrators are more likely to be held accountable for their decisions than State/federal bureaucrats (much less employers – ever try to hold an employer responsible for something s/he’s not legally required to do?). This change will help to focus interest in local politics even more.
** Legislate away direct-to-consumer marketing of prescription drugs. We did this with cigarette ads and can use the same justification here, given the tens of thousands of deaths and hospitalizations caused by “correctly prescribed” pharmaceuticals each year. This will save big pharmas billion$ per year in advertising fees, which will facilitate lower-cost drugs. Far more importantly, the demand for these drugs will no longer be artificially inflated far beyond the actual medical need, which is part of what’s causing the skyrocketing health care costs (pharmas direct-advertise only their most expensive drugs). A nice side-benefit of this is that the billion$ of advertising dollars will mostly be taken away from the entrenched, illegitimate, Fifth Column media. That’s a feature, not a bug.
** Let the resulting free market economics of commodity goods and services force the cost of day-to-day health care, equipment and pharmaceuticals back to a more reasonable equilibrium through profit reduction, cost cutting, salary reduction, firing slackers and efficiency improvements.
Some folks would add tort reform to the list above. I’ve never been convinced that tort reform will have the slightest affect on health care costs, since comprehensive insurance is the real culprit. Once direct-pay is reinstated, the market will control what a doctor can demand in compensation and, therefore, what s/he can pay out for liability insurance. Liability insurers will either adjust to that or stop offering the insurance. Either way, this eliminates the aspect of torts that drives up health care costs. If you disagree, push for tort reform too. See how far you get, given that those making the decisions are virtually ALL attorneys.
Any alternative to this approach will fail to address the underlying problem: skyrocketing health care costs that have been encouraged to increase at rates multiple times that of inflation for decades. The one factor most responsible for those increases is the comprehensive health care insurance scam. Eliminate that, and allow the free market to drive day-to-day health care costs back down, and you eliminate one more “crisis” for the socialists in the federal government to exploit.
Aug 9, 2009 - 5:37 pm 113. AThinkingPerson:jharp: No, I’m not surprised. Here’s the page on the ACLU’s own website on “Free Speech and the President” and guess what? It’s all about BUSH! Funny huh? Predictable. Not one peep about Obama’s nark website or how he’s allowing Pelosi to call citizens anti-American for voicing dissent.
The ACLU now ranks up there with the Black Panthers and Code Pink being in the tank for an oppressive regime. Welcome to the USSA jharp. You should be proud. Please, remember to tell your future generations that you proudly voted to do away with free speech (I’m sure they’ll thank you for gifting them with socialized medicine too!).
http://72.3.233.244/freespeech/protest/protest_president.html
Aug 9, 2009 - 5:51 pm 114. Samizdat:BC @ 55 and other posts,
Your point on the economy going into recession was accurate.
The rest of your points were straight out of Mother Jones. If you can’t recognize the success of the surge, the tactics of which this President is employing in the Afghan conflict, your not sufficiently in touch with reality to have a credible opinion on other matters. You can dispute the need to get rid of the prior Iraqi regime and install the Arab worlds first republic, but you can not credibly dispute the effectiveness of the Petraeus strategy. It renders the rest of your opinions incredible. You impeached yourself.
Aug 9, 2009 - 5:59 pm 115. jharp:AThinkingPerson:
“jharp: No, I’m not surprised. Here’s the page on the ACLU’s own website on “Free Speech and the President” and guess what? It’s all about BUSH! Funny huh? Predictable.”
It just happened last week for God’s sake. Do ya think they might want to study the issue for a little longer than that?
And some free advice. If you think they need to act, contact them. They work diligently on behalf of ALL Americans.
And that would include the teabaggers. I guarantee it.
Aug 9, 2009 - 6:06 pm 116. goy:Oh, and this was rich:
“NewMajority.com is a site edited by David Frum, dedicated to the modernization and renewal of the Republican party and the conservative movement.”
Translation: dedicated to hijacking the conservative movement to pursue endless, argumentum ad termperantiam compromise with moral adolescents under the guise of “pragmatism”, and abandonment of the principles of American exceptionalism that made the U.S.A. the last, best hope of earth, reviled by those whose petty jealousy overruled their human spirit.
Aug 9, 2009 - 6:11 pm 117. Chuck Pelto:TO: All
RE: jharp Can’t Remember, For Sure
Probably because there’s not been a peep out of the ACLU over things like what happened to Gladney.
Lots of other people have been looking for the ACLU to come out with a statement about the matter. But so far…….the proverbial sound of silence.
YES!
Contact them.
ALL OF US should contact them and ask them about their silence.
We just MIGHT be surprised.
Or….better yet…THEY might be surprised.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Aug 9, 2009 - 6:13 pm 118. Chuck Pelto:[Dissent is the highest form of patriotism!]
TO: All
RE: To Give the ACLU Feedback….
Here is the DIRECT LINK!
Enjoy,
Chuck(le)
Aug 9, 2009 - 6:18 pm 119. Chuck Pelto:[Freedom is hammered out on the anvil of discussion, dissent, and debate. -- Hubert H. Humphrey]
TO: All
RE: And While You’re At It….
….ask them if YOU’RE a on the government’s ‘watch list’. [Note: Use a separate feedback.]
I stumbled upon the ACLU’s Government Watch List article and noticed that all the items with dates on them dated from the Bush administration.
NOTHING, as far as I could tell from the Obama administration. This despite whatzhername at DHS declaring that we retired military types of the conservative persuasion, ESPECIALLY the Christians, are a threat to national security.
Here’s the link to the ACLU article.
Enjoy,
Chuck(le)
Aug 9, 2009 - 6:30 pm 120. Samizdat:[The beatings should continue until their moral improves.]
There have been some back and forth comments on the ACLU which have been sparked by Alter’s opinion piece.
The ACLU is essentially an anarchist organization with a selective advocacy record regarding Constitutional protections. The ACLU has advocted on behalf of the North American Man Boy Love Association, but will not advocate on behalf of firearms owners, a recognized Constitutionally protected class. The predatory pursuit of minor boys requires protection in the eyes of the ACLU, but gun ownership does not. I don’t believe I need to say anything further.
Aug 9, 2009 - 6:41 pm 121. AtheistConservative:“There was a telling incident at a town hall held by Representative Gene Green, D-Tex”
Funny how this tired ‘telephone game’ myth keeps getting repeated by you morons. Even your Messiah used this nonsense in his speech.
The funny thing is, it never happened. Know how we know? Because Clinton was using it for a laugh in the 90’s when he and his wife were trying to take over health care.
The only thing we learn when people like you and Bill Maher call your fellow countrymen ’stupid’ or refer to them as ‘teabaggers’ is exactly how scared and insecure you are. You know you can only make progress by lying, and you’ve been found out. And the people are mad. But you’re too childish to just admit your error, so you dig in and spew hatred. Which makes more people mad. And you lose more and more ground.
This is why free speech is so awesome. Remember that old saying about being silent and being thought an idiot versus opening your mouth and removing all doubt? Please, keep talking. Keep calling real Americans – the ones who pay the bills – fools and morons. Keep helping us convince them how little merit your position has.
Aug 9, 2009 - 7:19 pm 122. BC:To Bear: to be honest, while I understand what the bill is suppose to do, and while I can kind of understand Obama’s reasons for wanting to do it now due to the dumb*ass politics involved, I’m personally still not down with rushing things this way. I think it would have been wiser both politically and aesthetically to first come up with some hard numbers on the healthcare cash flows, especially what’s really behind the relentless cost escalations (everyone has an opinion, but no hard data). Granted that this would be difficult and expensive — expect everyone with any real info to be guarded by lots of lawyers — but it would be transparent and give everyone solid, inarguable reasons to want to fix things.
The bill, to its credit, appears to try to do an end-around tedious, litigation-prone data gathering by essentially going “We don’t care what shenanigans you and your business got away with in the past, but it ends here now.” But its size and poor marketing has given opponents too much to rabble rouse with — Gawd forbid that any serious, intelligent discussion about health care costs and the merits of Obama’s approach ever breaks out….
Aug 9, 2009 - 7:59 pm 123. vivo:109. AThinkingPerson:
“So, Vivo, you might tell your liberal friends at ACORN and the Black Panthers and Code Pink and the Rainbow Coalition that their days are numbered. The mobs are at the town halls and will soon find their way to Washington.”
Your paranoia is out of control. What you’re saying is YOUR fantasy. What can I tell you?
Are you going to the town halls and express your bright opinion?
Aug 9, 2009 - 10:03 pm 124. Meanest Mom:When Barack Obama came into office, he seemed like the captain of the Love Boat. A mere six months of B.O., and it’s beginning to feel more like …
Aug 9, 2009 - 10:40 pm 125. no fear Obama:the Titanic
Well…. Well!
Number 2 democrat senator being Drubin is calling for the public option on health care.
When the majority of American people put their Representatives hands and feet to the fire on an issue, they will always decide not too lose their jobs and vote for the majority.
If you listen closely- listen,
you can hear trolls heads exploding all over blogs world.
I can still smell their fear.
Aug 9, 2009 - 10:57 pm 126. Laurie Thompson:Six months. And look how far we’ve traveled in such a short time.
Soon, I’m thrilled to say, our entire country will be completely in the pink.
Ever as I write, President Barack Obama is hard at work changing the face of America.
Rich capitalists no longer run things. Government has taken most of the private enterprise reins and is running things for the people.
While, all the while, making sure we go forward united in hope, dreams, concerns and success.
Taking necessary and vital spending steps that’ll prove beyond doubting Thomases that we can (and will) spend our way out of the recession (inherited from George Bush of course.)
And isn’t it nice? For once, we all seem to be on the same page when it comes to the great President Barack’s ObamaCare.
Yesiree, united are we. Personally, I’m frankly flabbergasted that ObamaCare is so far reaching.
But the message of efficient, government run, fairly rationed health care is just one spoke in President Obama’s wheel of hope that’s gathering momentum throughout the world.
One sour note.
The President’s messages of hate(I’ll explain myself), happiness at being above the law, pro-socialism, anti-private enterprise etc., etc., etc., seems to have served as a rallying point for rebel rousing Republicans, independents, moderate liberals and conservatives.
Which, while unfortunate, is nothing we can’t overcome. If those stupid tea partiers won’t stop, we may send some socialist union muscle men who can tea bag with the best of them.
I just hope that Hillary stops running off at the mouth about how protest is the highest form of patriotism.
Pure, unadulterated malarky. Just about the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard the pudge ball, pantsuit princess say.
Why doesn’t she start up once again that drivel about being under sniper fire in Iraq, and take those idiotic right wing minds off ruining the great plans for change that the great one, Barack Obama, has up his sleeve for this nation?
Or why can’t she do some crying. Barack’s slave media eats that up.
But my mind always returns to Obama.
Who could argue with a man tutelaged under Jeramiah Wright for twenty years. Pedagogy is crucial to a critical thinker’s mind, especially one as steeped in logic as Barack Obama. It’s a mind that most true blue union members, especially, would have trouble arguing with. And always want to take orders from. Of course, I’m referring to the sideshow staged by extreme right wingers, who had no right to stand on the street corner at night and give out, “Don’t tread on me” pamplets.”
Free speech in a free country stops where you begin to infringe on my right to be left alone. But, oh no, Kenneth the black Republican, by handing out that filth, did the equivalent of yelling “Theater in a crowded fire house.” (or something to that effect).
So no wonder the union members were upset. Still don’t forget it was Gladney’s head that he used to try to hurt the patriotic union member’s fist. When your mother says, “use your head” that’s not what she means.
Also, like the President, I despise the Catholic Church for hating the wholesale slaughter of the unborn. Even going so far as to, like Kenneth Gladney, pass out subversive, anti unborn killing literature.
I guess the Catholic church never heard of separation of church and state. Maybe they should read the constitution.
Like the President, I also think of the police and the military as thugs who want to hurt and harass everything from other countries to other black men. That’s why the budgets of both are being cut with meat cleavers, not kitchen knives.
Like the President I also despise so called American patriots, from Paul (why couldn’t he just stay home and relax that night of April 18th, 1775) Revere to Claire (medal of freedom) Phillips to Petraeus, David, General U.S. Army, who created the surge that won the war in Iraq.
And did this in spite of the fact that the great one, President Barack Obama, in his infinite wisdom said the surge would never work. Moveon.org pointed out that Petraeus at the end of the day would betray us. Isn’t their word good enough for most Americans? It is for George Soros.
Actually, that moveon ad about Petraeus was (of course) Barack’s brainchild. Alledgedly, Barack saw in the General’s 201 file a position paper on politics which stated that General Petraeus doesn’t “give two hoots in hell” about pro-socialist agendas.
While we work day and night to change the country; turn it into the European nation state that Barack envisions, Petraeus and his kind won’t give us the time of day.
President Obama is busting a gut because he can’t wait to fire the General. I certainly do feel for Barack who’s Harvard educated. Where did Petraeous go to school? Podunk University?
Also, like the President, I’m proud as a peacock that Sonia Sotomayor wasn’t dissuaded from taking her historic and glorious stand against the oppressive and slow witted white males who began this country by throwing so many worn out phrases of personal freedom, justice and liberty into the mean spirited, wordy, flowery Declaration of Independence.
But, no, that wasn’t enough.
Then to add fuel to the freedom fire, they created the U.S. constitution with that damn second amendment, not to mention the first and 14th that get in our way every time we try to change this country into Barack Obama’s image and likeness. Enter Sonia Sotomeyor stage left.
Now to clarify that message of hate.
I put that message of hate in there (I know it sounds negative) because it may be the number one galvanizing force that’s come from our great leado.
Until I went away to college at NYU and came home a muy bonita socialista, my parents thought I was right wing enough to join the CIA. Imagine that, a nappy haired (I refuse to wear wigs) black girl (light skinned though like Obama likes em’) in the CIA.
But once I heard Barack Obama’s undertone of hate, and saw him (alledgedly) give the finger to Hillary, I was hooked. Hate. Unlike Hussein which comes between Barack and Obama, nowadays hate is my middle name. I know it sounds a little crazy, but, hey, if it feels good, do it.
I’ll just add one more reason why The Great One has been so successful in uniting his contumely filled coterie of socialist/stalinists.
The brilliant way he responded when a racist Sgt. attempted to arrest a freedom loving Harvard Professor. Like the late great Howard Cosell would “tell it like it is” so does President Obama. He called the white racist cop out on the carpet and informed the cowering, slow witted, pale white man that he had acted stupidly.
To which Crowley replied, “I know you did, sir.” Well, I may not have the facts perfect, but I believe that was the gist of their conversation.
Now Professor Gates is hailed at Harvard as the masta of the white slave. Another proud moment in Obama’s Presidency.
Before I go, I should say a word or two about the coal black gentlemen dastardly accused of voter intimidation in Philadelphia. Nonsense, they were providing security for black voters.
Consequently, said Eric Holder,“that’s why we naturally dropped all charges and apologized to the great community organization known as your Black Panthers.
Okay, at least I got a few things off my chest. It’s now time for me to go to sleep and hopefully dream about the great days ahead for the greatest President this nation has ever seen.
Imagine, in just seven short months, he’s succeeded in unifying the nation. A man of his word. The man of his time.
Aug 10, 2009 - 12:02 am 127. ManekiNeko:112: Since prices are hidden, there is no free market in health care services. I would add to your list:
1) Every health care provider must publish their prices by procedure code, and there can be one and only one price per code. Procedure codes are currently standardized.
No more one person paying $X for a procedure and another 10 times $X for the same thing from the same provider. This happens now more or less in secret. Consumers of health care simply cannot make informed economic decisions.
2) Allow the use of publicly available “estimator books” that rate the relative cost of procedures against each other in units. Methods such as RVS, RBRVS, etc already exist in health care. If a provider adopts such a method, the provider need only publish the name of the “book” and the dollars per unit charged (determined by the provider).
This is like a car mechanic publishing a shop rate (per hour) and using a book to tell how many hours each repair takes; this is a system that consumers understand.
3) Make employer contributions to health insurance taxable income of the employee. Initially allow everyone to take a deduction for their full insurance costs (not just the employer contribution), the same as the self-employed currently do. Over (a short) time, phase out the deduction except for catastrophic coverage. Eventually, phase out the deduction entirely.
Employer provided health insurance was an artifact of wage and price controls during WWII. Companies couldn’t compete for skilled workers on wages, so resorted to “non-wage” fringe benefits. Unions made health insurance part of negotiated worker compensation after WWII.
I think (3) would probably force insurance companies to compete on price, but it could always be mandated that they publish their prices.
Aug 10, 2009 - 12:23 am 128. Chuck Pelto:TO: Samizdat, et al.
RE: Well, SAKES!
I had not thought to look at the ACLU in that context. I’ll have to think on it a bit, as it is something of a shocker. However, it does go far in explaining some of, if not most of, their activities over the last decade, as I recollect.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Aug 10, 2009 - 1:55 am 129. Marc Malone:[The Truth will out.....deeds speak louder than words.]
#120 Samizdat – No, the ACLU was founded by avowed Communists. It’s purpose is to turn the Constitution against itself. It is a treasonous, fifth-column organization.
Aug 10, 2009 - 3:06 am 130. Samizdat:BC @ 122,
Compliments on the first paragraph above, it shows a healthy skepticism and respect for a deliberation based on fact, not fear.
Your second paragraph attacks profit, misidentifying the supposed culprit in health care. True competition is the only way to provide service and minimize expense. This is true in every other service business. There is no reason competition should not be employed in health care. If the Feds become a competitor, because they write the rules and pay no taxes, they will crowd out true competition. End of innovation, beginning of the road to rationing and long waits for certain services. Everyone equally miserable.
Aug 10, 2009 - 5:00 am 131. Bear:BC
Bingo
Thanks for the reasoned response…now can’t we all just get along and end the protracted poker game
We’re all still Americans, and at the end of the day we will find out soon enough there are other more serious combatants out there.
Aug 10, 2009 - 7:12 am 132. goy:@124. Samizdat: True competition is the only way to provide service and minimize expense. This is true in every other service business.
Precisely. That’s one of the two major causes of skyrocketing health care costs: the proxy monopoly (i.e., the comprehensive health insurance companies) that controls the cost of and access to health care has neutralized competition in favor of ersatz wage and price ‘controls’ based on contractual agreements rather than federal laws. What we have now is “corporate” socialized medicine rather than government-run socialized medicine.
Insurance company executives and health care providers are not elected by the people, so the problem is this: nowhere does the health care consumer get a say in what they’re spending for health care. Prices are all determined by wink-and-a-nod agreements between the health care provider and the health care insurer.
This is made abundantly clear by examining any EOB for a significant prescription or procedure. The doctor bills $X.00 – presumably what the patient would be charged, directly – and the insurance company pays some percentage of that billed amount – anywhere from 40-70% on the EOBs I’ve examined.
My insurance company even has the unmitigated audacity to print “amount saved by the patient” on the EOBs I get. Meanwhile, my G.P. is always dressed in a snappy ensemble that runs anywhere from $1500 to $2000, and he AND his wife drive twin S-Type Jags and live in a $1.2M estate out in the country.
And insurance company CEOs are doing just as well.
Comprehensive health insurance is a complete misuse of insurance, and a criminal enterprise that has to be addressed, or we’ll go bankrupt trying to cover the skyrocketing costs no matter what system we use. And if we turn it over to the government, precisely as you’ve stated, we can kiss quality health care good-bye. And along with it, we can bid a fond farewell to any liberty the feds can justify curtailing with a claim that it increases the cost of government-funded health care.
People who want to turn control of their health care over to the government simply aren’t thinking this thing through. Do you honestly believe for one second that you’ll get access to health care if you refuse to take a drug the government requires you to take?
Here’s an example: if your cholesterol is over 140, doctors now recommend that you go on cholesterol medication. Life insurance companies charge an inflated policy premium for this condition even if you’re taking such medication. This is all despite the fact that there’s never been any causal relationship documented between cholesterol and heart disease. One study – testing the effectiveness of Zetia, I believe – actually demonstrated that there is NO relationship at all. The effects of most cholesterol meds, however, are often dangerous. I know this from personal experience as well as extensive research. They require constant blood test monitoring to be administered safely. These tests are rarely done, and liver damage and other damage frequently occurs over time without the patient having any idea.
It’s the same with marginally high blood pressure and BP meds, as well as borderline blood sugar level (i.e. “pre-diabetes”) meds. And don’t even get me started on the infamous “obesity” designation driven by an arbitrary BMI calculation that completely ignores different body types and different metabolic conditions.
And we haven’t even begun to talk about psychotropic drugs, which almost EVERYONE is prescribed these days – in place of actual, you know, therapy – for just about any complaint one makes to a psych professional.
The bottom line is this: once the government can pass a law that says you have to accept Treatment A or be denied health care entirely, you won’t have a choice but to comply. And believe it or not, not all drug treatments are safe.
Aug 10, 2009 - 7:14 am 133. Bear:Samizdat.
Right on mark…the fewer administers of HC the greater the potential for fraud, corruption and other unthinkable practices. A truly competitive environment with full disclosure of costs coverages etc, would force said suppliers to compete or perish.
Aug 10, 2009 - 7:17 am 134. AThinkingPerson:jharp and Vivo have proven what we’ve all known for some time, liberals are for free speech as long as it’s their opinion and not anyone else’s. How very convenient.
Anyone else catch Contessa Brewer today on MSDNC call an elderly man and his handicapped adult son “bozos” for speaking out to their Congressman? There’s your typical liberal “news”person.
I love how the liberal truth is coming out for all of us to see. Love watching the cockroaches scatter once the light is turned on. I guess now we’ll all be labeled “Free Speechers”.
PS…Note to jharp…I’m not going to wait for the ACLU to come to my FREE SPEECH defense. That’s like asking the Democrats to watch my money while I run an errand.
Note to Vivo…Again…I COULD CARE LESS WHO OR WHAT YOU ARE. You are defending an oppressive regime that is now calling senior citizens, vets and disabled people UN-AMERICAN for speaking out. Where’s YOUR outrage?
Aug 10, 2009 - 7:23 am 135. Samizdat:Mark @ 129,
Roger Baldwin, if memory serves, was a pacifist who was influenced by and sympathetic to anarchist ideals. You are correct that he had communist sympathies as well. He set the tone for the ACLU in its infancy as one of its founders and directors. I believe Jimmy Carter gave Baldwin a Medal of Freedom prior to his death, which speaks volumes about Carter.
Notice that the ACLU, a huge supporter of the current President and the Democrats who dominate Congress, has said little about the repeated attempts by Congress and the president to intimidate or silence the opposition. I see no law suits being initiated to obtain cease and desist orders against the SEIU for its various tactical operations against Obamacare opponents. No litigation against the Black Panthers for their election day voter intimidation. No opinion pieces about these threats to freedom of speech and assembly. No promises to file briefs in support of upholding the rights of the dissenters. Speaks volumes, doesn’t it?
Aug 10, 2009 - 7:34 am 136. jharp:AThinkingPerson:
“PS…Note to jharp…I’m not going to wait for the ACLU to come to my FREE SPEECH defense.”
If you have any case at all you are a fool not to contact them. That is what they do. It’s a very expensive process but if you choose to fight it yourself by all means go for it. Should I assume you are hiring a lawyer or are going the teabag route?
Let me know how you do.
Aug 10, 2009 - 8:00 am 137. BC:To Samizdat: remember your intro to economics courses back in high school or college, and that bit about elastic and inelastic supply & demand curves? I remember that as an example of a near totally elastic demand curve was the price of bushels of standard corn where there is plenty to go around — if you as a farmer tried to sell it anywhere above the established market price, demand would fall off precipitously. Conversely the example given for a near totally inelastic demand curve was health care — if someone needs medical treatment for a serious condition, that person is willing to pay almost any price to get it. In theory, that person could shop around, but imagine trying to shop around for a better price on, say, even the removal of a large cyst.
But health care costs for the longest time apparently were regulated by the philosophy behind the the ancient Hippocratic Oath — that doctors are bound by their art and training to be ethical, which includes not gouging patients in need for whatever money they can cough up. This philosophy began falling to the wayside as large corporations, most especially the drug companies, began exploiting the economics of health care to essentially pretty much charge whatever they can for key products. And as doctors became increasingly under attack by easily fileable frivolous lawsuits, there also seems to have been a philosophical shift to seeing their profession as just a modern business with profit and loss, as opposed to an ancient, ethically bound art.
All recent attempts to regulate costs, the rise in HMO’s for example, have basically failed as the same sort of “how can we exploit and/or manipulate this” mentality that has taken over the financial markets had spread to the health industry. As health care “systems” began consolidating ownership of hospitals and key product suppliers, what little real innovation that started coming from the corporate end, mostly in gene-related therapies, pretty much is fading away — advances now come almost exclusively from the academic world in health care, not from the corporate end. There is still a lot of money being invested into R&D, but you take the academic connection out of the picture, there is less and less to show for it. Most new drugs, for example, duplicate existing therapies, and any claims of greater effectiveness has to be take with a grain of salt, especially when they come with much higher price tags and very long lists of scary sounding possible side effects.
Back in the fall of last year, the Boston Globe ran a lengthy but eye opening series of investigations into some rather dubious corporate health care practices in and around the Boston area, home to some of the top hospitals and doctors in the US. This is a not bad summary of what the Globe found.
Aug 10, 2009 - 8:17 am 138. goy:@127. ManekiNeko: – I would add to your list … Every health care provider must publish their prices by procedure code, …
Wouldn’t make any difference, unfortunately. As long as insurance companies are “covering the cost”, it wouldn’t matter how astronomical the published price got. With the present scam system, consumers are duped into caring ONLY about their co-pay.
- 2) Allow the use of publicly available “estimator books” that rate the relative cost of procedures against each other in units.
This would be nice for determining the best place to go for a procedure. But it would do absolutely nothing to control the cost of that procedure as long as the proxy health care monopoly is controlling it and encouraging the consumer not to care about it.
- 3) Make employer contributions to health insurance taxable income of the employee.
Unfortunately, this doesn’t address the fact that employers shouldn’t be involved in helping to pay for employees’ health care at all, for a number of reasons. The two biggest are that (a) it’s an unnecessary, productivity-draining administrative expense for businesses that only hurts the economy in the long run and (b) it provides an avenue for federal manipulation of the employees through statutory manipulation of their employer. Ask the folks in Massachusetts about this if you have doubts. Employers and self-employed individuals alike are penalized there if they don’t provide money for the state-run “Health Care for Everyone” plan.
- I think (3) would probably force insurance companies to compete on price, but it could always be mandated that they publish their prices.
The point this misses, unfortunately, is that comprehensive insurance is a misuse of insurance – especially insurance that is administered over a large actuarial group, as health insurance is. Insurance is a tool for managing risk. It is a misuse of this tool to use it to spread routine health care costs – i.e., basic cost of living – over a larger group of people. That’s no different from socialism, ultimately.
Prices – like gas – expand to fill the space they’re in. This is basic, Economics 101. The problem with comp. health insurance is that expenses incurred for health care by those in a plan are paid for by ALL members of the plan. The cost for a subset of the plan membership is thus allowed to expand to fit the ability of ALL members, combined, to cover it. This leads to an artificially inflated cost that would not be supportable if each person were paying for the health care they received individually.
There are other factors that drive health care costs up, like the fact that it works to the insurance companies’ benefit (more cash flow increases their bottom line, since they’re nothing more than a middleman who take a fee to manage the exchange that ultimately occurs between patient and provider), but the above is the fundamental reason. And that’s the reason we’ll never solve the health care cost problem without getting rid of comprehensive health care insurance.
The trick the insurance companies have played on consumers is to get them addicted to “free” health care. And the danger of financing insurance as an employment benefit is that the cost of our insurance is typically deducted from our salary (if we’re employed), so we never see it. It’s an “invisible” expense, just like the money that actually gets paid to the doctor or drug company for the services or Rx we receive. We never see that money. The only thing we ever actually pay out is our co-pay, which in no way reflects the actual cost of care.
With the current system, people typically have no real idea what their insurance costs, let alone what their health care services cost. That’s why the system is completely broken. Turning it over to the government will only make it worse.
Aug 10, 2009 - 8:40 am 139. goy:@137. BC: - … if someone needs medical treatment for a serious condition, that person is willing to pay almost any price to get it. In theory, that person could shop around, but imagine trying to shop around for a better price on, say, even the removal of a large cyst.
The problem with this is that it’s a false analogy fallacy, at least with respect to the health care situation taken as a whole. The vast majority of routine health care doesn’t fall into this category. The portion that does fall into this category should be handled by the one tool designed to manage and mitigate financial risk: catastrophic (i.e., “Major Medical”) insurance.
- But health care costs for the longest time apparently were regulated by the philosophy behind the the ancient Hippocratic Oath — that doctors are bound by their art and training to be ethical, which includes not gouging patients in need for whatever money they can cough up.
Sorry, this is (at best) utterly naive. Back when people paid directly out-of-pocket for routine health care – the vast majority of health care – the price was completely controlled by commodity economics not altruism.
- This philosophy began falling to the wayside as large corporations, most especially the drug companies, began exploiting the economics of health care …
Again, wrong. This changed when comprehensive health care insurance came to be adopted, which spread the cost for routine care over an ever-increasing population, thereby allowing it to inflate out of all proportion from a normal market condition. This is what made it feasible for corporations to get involved in the health care scam – they realized how much money could be made by peddling overpriced goods and services to an ignorant consumer.
- All recent attempts to regulate costs, the rise in HMO’s for example, have basically failed as the same sort of “how can we exploit and/or manipulate this” mentality …
Huh? WHAT attempts? It is ALWAYS in the health care providers’ and the insurance companies’ best interest to allow health care costs to slowly an inexorably increase. Remember, in the system they’ve developed – which completely abuses the concept of insurance as a financial risk mitigator – comp. insurance companies are just a broker, taking money from the consumer and giving some of it to the provider. When health care costs increase, they simply raise insurance premium rates to cover their costs (and retain their profit margin and investor dividends – earned off of their customers’ misery). This system has worked so well (for them) that they now have an effective proxy monopoly over both the cost of and access to health care.
Neither HMOs nor any other comprehensive insurance company has every made any genuine attempt to actually control health care costs and bring them back in line with other commodities. This is demonstrated by the fact that those costs have been skyrocketing at rates multiple times that of inflation since comprehensive health care insurance became popular.
Aug 10, 2009 - 8:55 am 140. Scott:Great piece, it made me chuckle quite a few times.
We can at least look on the bright side, he’s basically taken Hillary out of the political equation forever. When he crashes and burns in 2012 she’ll never have another run at President because of her ties to this travesty of an administration. She’d have been better off staying opposed to him rather than jumping on the band wagon. In fact all the people who thought they might ride Obama’s coat tails to something in the future are likely to see the end of their political careers in the next 2-4 years, unless they have terribly stupid constituents (how the hell did Murtha get re-elected) or they do what they did with Franken in MN and steal the elections.
Aug 10, 2009 - 9:40 am 141. BC:To Goy:
1) It’s not a false analogy — health care beyond treating bruised knees and mild headaches quickly escalates anytime a doctor visit is involved.
2) No — for centuries, the Hippocratic Oath was considered a serious bit of ethical guidelines for doctors to follow. Consequently health care costs were very stable and in keeping with everything else up until about 1960, when it started to inflate at a slightly higher rate. It started really skyrocketing, though, during the 80’s.
3) No — health care insurance was widely available since the 40’s at least and became well-established by the 50’s. And has no connection to the inflation rates that came later, especially during the 80’s. The modern HMO plan was created under Nixon as a way to deal with then rising Medicare and Medicaid costs. It expanded from that point on, especially during the 80’s, as an overall health care cost‐containment measure.
4) Google can be your friend.
Aug 10, 2009 - 10:41 am 142. COL. SEBASTIAN MORAN:#49
JHARP
Hmmmmmm…….how ’bout “Plugs” Biden educating
Aug 10, 2009 - 10:57 am 143. Thomas_L......:the entire county regarding FDR’s now famous television appearance in 1929 (WOW!!!) describing his libtard program
called “New Deal”. Sorry pal, you lose on this one – perhaps you should retire to one of your fearless leader’s 57 states. I guess its true – you just can’t fix stupid !
77/88
S.M.
Arguing with jharp is like trying to talk sense to … um … a teabag. A used one, at that. Ignore it.
Aug 10, 2009 - 11:06 am 144. COL. SEBASTIAN MORAN:I don’t know what “teabagging” is and I’m not interested enough to look. However, is it odd or not that all the lefties here seem up on it?
#70
SHERAB ZANGPO
And thank you for your spot-on, literate, intelligent comment.
Aug 10, 2009 - 11:10 am 145. goy:77/88
S.M.
@141. BC: – It’s not a false analogy — health care beyond treating bruised knees and mild headaches quickly escalates anytime a doctor visit is involved.
Yes, it is a false analogy fallacy, and you have failed to provide any evidence to the contrary. Routine health care is anything that anyone can reasonably assume they’ll need during any given year. As such, it’s a cost of living. We do not abuse insurance to ‘mitigate’ any routine cost of living EXCEPT for health care.
Routine care includes physicals, flu shots, inevitable minor injuries, inevitable bouts of the flu or other non-life-threatening illnesses, etc. It also includes treatment for known, chronic illness. We abuse insurance today by paying for ALL of this routine health care abusing a tool that is intended to mitigate financial risk. And if you weren’t trying to make an argument in favor of socialized medicine, you would recognize this because it’s something that’s been developed and foisted onto the consumer by “evil, greedy” corporations.
You’re conflating the seriousness of a health issue with its cost. The two are not the same, even when you obfuscate by falsely claiming that every health issue “escalates”, which is absurd. ALL health care – including the vast majority of health care, which is routine care – is ridiculously expensive today. That doesn’t make it all deadly serious, it simply means that the mechanism we’re using to control the cost is broken (nonexistent, actually).
- 2) No — for centuries, the Hippocratic Oath was considered a serious bit of ethical guidelines for doctors to follow.
It’s still considered such – as far as the practice of medicine goes.
Unfortunately, the Oath doesn’t speak to what a doctor should charge for services. That has only ever been determined by the health care market. Once the consumer’s ability to control health care costs was neutralized by the advent of comprehensive health care insurance, the cost of health care started rising faster than inflation. There was literally nothing to keep those costs under control. Savvy businesspeople recognized this, recognized the potential for profit, and turned health care into a corporate enterprise, working in partnership with the insurance companies. Between the two, they now form a proxy monopoly that controls not only the cost of but access to health care. If there’s a “crisis” in health care, they are the proximate cause. The government recognizes this, which is why they want to seize control of it and are trying to do so by exploiting the “crisis”.
– health care insurance was widely available since the 40’s at least and became well-established by the 50’s.
Actually, pre-paid plans were available going back as far as the Depression era. They were widely available. Not widely used they way they were beginning in the 60s and 70s, however, leading to skyrocketing prices in the 80s and beyond. And the vast majority of insurance back then was major medical insurance, as developed by non-profit Blue Cross and Blue Shield, not the comprehensive insurance we have today.
Aug 10, 2009 - 11:17 am 146. Samizdat:Goy at # 139,
Thanks for saving me the time to draft a response. I agree that cost and insurance are not matching up and creating market distortion. Insurance is covering the wrong stuff at times. I would like the opportunity to negotiate more of this myself, but the insurance industry and government have cut my voice out of the process, too much one size fits all. I’d rather pay for the mundane and be covered for the big stuff, ie a higher deductable.
I have excellent coverage, but it is a benefit and I can’t change it’s terms. This is because it is employer paid. The way to fix that is to give me a voucher and tax room to negotiate a new deal.
BC, we differ,m but I respect your mature approach to the problem. We would all be better off if we could have a true and civil discourse about a solution.
Aug 10, 2009 - 11:32 am 147. Graham L.:143. Thomas_L……: “I don’t know what “teabagging” is and I’m not interested enough to look.”
Teabagging is the act of going bat**** crazy and taking to the streets in small to moderate numbers to oppose the election of a black Democrat. In order to hide their racism, teabaggers pretend to be non-partisan activists who are simply protesting federal spending, despite that these same people were mysteriously nowhere to be found during the last 8 years when a Republican president led by a Republican majority congress never vetoed a single spending bill.
Teabaggers can be defined as a small group of confused citizens who benefit daily from a slew of federal programs and services and yet paradoxically, vehemently oppose providing those federal agencies twith the necessary funds to continue to provide those programs and services.
Aug 10, 2009 - 11:41 am 148. Anonymous:“…despite that these same people were mysteriously nowhere to be found during the last 8 years when a Republican president led by a Republican majority congress never vetoed a single spending bill.”
Stop being dishonest, the Dems took over Congress in 2006 and many Democrats prior to that found it politically expedient to vote for things rather than standing on their alleged principles. How many of the Iraq war critics voted for it? Almost all of them.
Aug 10, 2009 - 11:56 am 149. Chuck Pelto:TO: Anonymous, et al.
RE: How Many….
….is not as important as ‘why’. And the why is very telling.
RE: Why?
Based on my observations, these people have absolutely NO PRINCIPLES. You can see that in their very leader. He lied through his smiling teeth all through the campaign. Videos supporting that report are easily found.
But those who voted for him, don’t really care about that. As they have no principles either. Or if they do, they’re not the sort that any rational being would hold to. Or they were duped.
The point being that without principles, they can say and do anything they want and not have any qualms of conscience.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Aug 10, 2009 - 12:06 pm 150. Chuck Pelto:[Where there is no religion, hypocrisy becomes good taste.]
TO: All
RE: An Additional Thought
Whereas I said, in the previous comment….
I should add the following descriptor. A very important adjective…..honest.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Aug 10, 2009 - 12:16 pm 151. goy:[Tricks and treachery are the practice of fools, that don't have brains enough to be honest. -- Benjamin Franklin]
@148. Anonymous: – “… these same people were mysteriously nowhere to be found during the last 8 years …”
Stop being dishonest, the Dems took over Congress in 2006 …
Exactly. Furthermore, the Republican Congress wasn’t pushing an unconstitutional takeover of the private sector, as the Democrats are doing now.
Middle America has seen the finance industry absorbed by the government. Next they watched the automotive industry get taken over. In neither case was the Constitution observed regarding the details. Now the feds want to take control over something else they have no constitutional authority to control, and which affects every person directly and intimately. That’s why Americans are reacting as they are. And well they should.
That said, Graham has a minor point: the spendthrift Republican Congress, intoxicated by the economic growth and record corporate tax revenue generated by Bush’s tax cuts, spent more time spending money than they did actively and vocally defending their Authorization for the Use of Military Force in Iraq against years of constant attacks by the left and their pet media. Their cowardice and Bush’s abysmal non-leadership were what eventually led to the Democrat majority.
That’s why we need to clean house in Congress. And fast.
Aug 10, 2009 - 12:31 pm 152. Scott:The thing is that most Republicans are “Dem-lite” and the simple fact remains that most Congress-critters have long ago forgot who they actually work for and where the heck all the money they spend so freely actually comes from.
We need real Conservatives in government who are actually fiscally conservative and will cut spending, term limits for Congress, and a smaller Federal government.
Aug 10, 2009 - 2:07 pm 153. Scott:“Based on my observations, these people have absolutely NO PRINCIPLES.” ~ Chuck Pelto
Note I said “alleged” principles, and I don’t know why my posts come up Anonymous rather frequently lately.
If it wouldn’t get me locked up I’d probably do a impression of Diogenes on Capitol Hill.
Aug 10, 2009 - 2:13 pm 154. Chuck Pelto:TO: Scott
RE: [OT] Coming Up ‘Anonymously’
They’ve changed the formating and in the process they eliminated the “Remember Me” aspect of commenting. Now you have to enter your identity each time.
Not sure as to the method to this particular ‘madness’.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Aug 10, 2009 - 2:31 pm 155. Marklar:[Consistency is the hobgoblin of good user interface.]
151. goy: “That’s why we need to clean house in Congress. And fast.
Why, so we can get in another group of Republicans who will lie us to war, refuse to confront our national challenges such as health care reform, fail to respond effectively to national disasters, squander a budgetary surplus, put unexperienced and unqualified cronies in charge of federal agencies, and try to privatize social security?
Sounds great to me.
Aug 10, 2009 - 2:32 pm 156. Chuck Pelto:TO: All
RE: Oh. Great…..
….another ignoramoose.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Aug 10, 2009 - 3:02 pm 157. goy:P.S. Marklar probably got out of high school in the last 10 years.
@155. Marklar: – Why, so we can get in another group …
No, so we can put the next cast of clowns on notice that when they choose compromise and personal aggrandizement over conservative principles, they get booted.
On your other silly talking ‘points’…
- … who will lie us to war, …
You’re referring of course to ALL THESE people, correct? Oh, wait – they aren’t Republicans. Sorry to burst your bubble there. Hope it didn’t hurt.
- … refuse to confront our national challenges such as health care reform, …
Republicans haven’t refused to confront health care reform. Some of them have offered alternatives to socialized medicine that are almost as stupid and guaranteed to fail as BHO’s “plan”. In fact, the biggest problem with Republican “solutions” to the health care “crisis” are that they are just Democrat-lite instead of being based on free market principles that keep all OTHER commodity costs affordable. Health care is the single exception. We’ll leave it as an exercise for the student to guess why (hint: we don’t abuse insurance to “mitigate” any other cost of living except health care).
- … fail to respond effectively to national disasters, …
You’re referring of course to the myths created by the entrenched, Fifth Column media immediately following Katrina, of course. Cling to those if you like. They have no bearing on reality.
- … squander a budgetary surplus, …
You mean the mythical “surplus” Clinton claimed through a combination of the largest tax increase in history and the inclusion of Social Security funds in the “unified budget” originally foisted on the American people by LBJ? Sorry. No actual surplus there. And the subsequent increase in the deficit was largely attributable to cleaning up the national security mess left behind by Clinton’s wag-the-dog foreign policy. Thanks a lot for that, Bill.
- … put unexperienced and unqualified cronies in charge of federal agencies, …
Here you must have switched to talking about our completely inexperienced and unqualified (now) President, who had absolutely no executive experience of any kind to speak of when he ran for the office. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Niente. Nichts. Nuttin’. ZERO. And it’s starting to show.
-… and try to privatize social security?
And the sooner the better. The federal government has no business telling me how to invest for my retirement. And given its history of tanking the economy at inopportune times, I’ll keep my own counsel on where to keep my nest egg. Thanks anyway.
- Sounds great to me.
Aug 10, 2009 - 3:14 pm 158. Chuck Pelto:I’ll be sure to quote you.
TO: All
RE: Markl[i]ar
There were no lies about WMDs in Iraq. Saddam used them quite frequently and the Yellow-Cake for making nukes WAS found.
Or was he referring to the 3000 dead on 9/11?
I guess this person doesn’t think war is a ‘national challenge’.
I wonder how much time this character has spent working on national disaster preparedness. I spent 10 years in the Army working on it. And if this stupid person would care to be specific, I’ll make him look like 57-varieties of ‘jackass’ on the subject.
Gee…..is that anything like tripling the national debt—left by the Bush administration—in the span of the first six months of the Obama administration?
If Bush did it. It’s wrong. No matter how much it is.
If Obama does it. It’s juz fine. Even if Markl[i]ar’s children, if there should be any such unfortunates will have to live at the level of a third-world nation.
Hey! Is that like putting the fat-woman from a carnie as Surgeon General?
How about someone who doesn’t know how to fill out an income tax form….using a computer….as the Secretary of the Treasury?
Of a passel of other cronies in positions they are incompetent at?
What Social Security?
If Markl[i]ar is the age he/she sounds, they’ll NEVER see it. The government won’t be able to afford it with this new Triple-Large national debt.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Aug 10, 2009 - 3:53 pm 159. BC:[Life is tough. It’s tougher if you’re stupid.]
To Samizdat: Thanks. While I admittedly enjoy dishing out snarky remarks and clever put-downs as much as the next anonymous Internet dude, sometimes it doesn’t hurt to at least try to explain your viewpoint with numbers and facts both easily digestible and verifiable. And then use that info in the context of a reasonably well thought out argument for why Choice A is better than Choice B. Most people, I do believe, will give you a serious listen and think things over if they believe that you are making a genuine effort to present your case clearly and without assuming that they are too stupid to understand. They may well still disagree over which is the better choice, but it does make it less likely they are going to claim you’re going to, oh say, make cat food out of grandma and grandpa.
Like I said, I with they would first excavate the hard numbers, facts and reasons behind the now very poorly understood surging costs of health care, and then use that to set up the basic framework for arguing their proposals. But even their current tact could be handled much more gracefully by first laying out the info they are using and how it was gathered. Let that sink in a little bit and then have discussions over that for a couple of months before then unveiling a proposal to fix things. And for such a thick bill, you also need a good Cliff Notes summary to accompany it.
I think Obama’s people were assuming the worst: no matter what they do, they and the bill would be attacked with stupid, ridiculous claims that will nevertheless become slogans among the very misinformed, so why bother? While there might be a justification or two for this attitude, that sort of cynicism tends to end up backfiring more often than not.
Aug 10, 2009 - 4:11 pm 160. Anonymous:158. Chuck Pelto:
“What Social Security?”
The existing SS, which would have been decimated had it been put into the stock market like the Republicans/conservatives wanted to do. We have only god to thank that such a blunder didn’t happen. Yes, He’s on our side.
Aug 10, 2009 - 5:14 pm 161. Samizdat:Graham @ 147,
American’s for Prosperity run tea parties; they don’t tea bag as lefties want to imply.
Keep believing it’s a tiny minority of confused citizens who are disaffected; you are in for a very rude shock if you are so delusional that you can’t understand the concept of the tea party. You need to get in touch with reality, you will soon be overwhelmed by it.
Aug 10, 2009 - 6:49 pm 162. Samizdat:Goy at 157; Chuck Pelto at 158,
Thanks for the reply to poor Marklar, saved me the trouble.
I will say this; Marklar, I can see why your so frustrated, reality must be scary when you can’t distinguish fact from fiction. Your dogma is overrunning your karma, and it shows.
Aug 10, 2009 - 6:59 pm 163. Chuck Pelto:TO: Anonymouse
RE: Social Security
The whole thing is a ponzi scheme, which is against the law if you practice it yourself. Go ask Madoff.
As for privatization, it wasn’t about the stock market alone. It was allowing people to invest the money where THEY wanted. Getting it AWAY from the government ‘reavers’ in Congress who used it for other projects than its original intent.
Try not to be so ignorant and proud of it.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Aug 11, 2009 - 4:01 am 164. Now and Then:[Stupid, adj., Ignorant and proud of it.]
163. Chuck Pelto:
“As for privatization, it wasn’t about the stock market alone. It was allowing people to invest the money where THEY wanted.”
Sorry, I forgot. We could have invested in other things – real estate, for example . . . oops. Maybe just keep it with the banks where it’s safe . . . oops. Classic cars? . . . oops.
Stupid is a good word, Chuck, a fine word.
Aug 11, 2009 - 5:19 am 165. Chuck Pelto:TO: Now and Then
RE: Try NOT….
….to demonstrate your youthful age and commensurate ignorance so blatantly.
One can invest in whatever one would want. The challenge, as always, is to invest wisely.
Then again, this is an obfuscation on your part. Ignoring the FACT that the government has raided Social Security, as in ‘reavers’ raping it to the point that it is a skinless, fleshless skeleton. Suitable only for strapping to the hull of space ship Congress.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Aug 11, 2009 - 5:46 am 166. deguello:[The Truth will out....]
#160ANONYMOUS:Last time I checked, Social”Security”, like other socialist ponzi schemes ,was broke,not decimated, broke!Obama is on the side of race baiters,speculators and bankers,not the American people.
Aug 11, 2009 - 7:28 pm 167. deguello:MARKLAR#155 What a great description of the Obamanista regime!You left out the blackshirt acorn thugs, and the “rat out your fellow citizen web site”.BTW When is the Ohole going to end the war in Afghanistan?PS:I’m curious: is MARKLAR the name of the toxic hallucigenic chemical that seems to inspire your drivel?
Aug 11, 2009 - 7:38 pm 168. deguello:#143 THOMAS.L: JHarp is not a used tea bag;like all liberals, he is a sc**mbag. Please get your terms straight.
Aug 11, 2009 - 7:48 pm 169. deguello:#55BC.Just read your drivel slandering American patriots.Freedom of speech is bitch for totalitarian thugs like you isn’t it? Does BC stand for:”before cerebrum”?It would explain your posts.Also,see above.
Aug 11, 2009 - 7:54 pm 170. deguello:#158 Chuck Pelto:Great post,the pedagoguical imperative is clearly alive and well,but tell me: where do you get the patience to try and educate these libtard’bags?
Aug 11, 2009 - 7:58 pm 171. vivo:134. AThinkingPerson:
“You are defending an oppressive regime that is now calling senior citizens, vets and disabled people UN-AMERICAN for speaking out. Where’s YOUR outrage?”
“defending”? “oppressive”?
Using words to twist and distort: that’s the outrage!
Aug 11, 2009 - 9:02 pm 172. Chuck Pelto:TO: deguello
RE: Patience
I guess it has something to do with, if you’ll pardon the expression, ‘christian ethics’ {nudge-nudge, wink-wink}.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Aug 12, 2009 - 3:42 am 173. Chuck Pelto:[Humor must not professedly teach and it must not professedly preach, but it must do both if it would live forever. -- Mark Twain]
TO: deguello, et al.
RE: vivo
vivo’s projecting….again….
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Aug 12, 2009 - 4:43 am 174. Deguello:[The Truth is blatantly obvious to anyone with more than two synapses to rub together.]
#172 Good one,Chuck!I respect your motivation,while remaining a nonbeliever.
Aug 12, 2009 - 9:01 am 175. DDW13:6 Months to pick the Family Dog, and I guess he’s still searching to find the “Wright” church for his family during his short stay in DC !!!
Aug 12, 2009 - 9:39 pm