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Sonny Corleone in Gaza
Exactly how much terrorist abuse is Israel expected to tolerate before fighting back? (Also, Phyllis Chesler: What's at Stake in Gaza)
If this analogy can be stretched a bit more, then, where does Glenn Greenwald fit? He’s Connie pleading frantically on behalf of her abusive husband: “It was my fault! … I started a fight with him. … Sonny, please don’t do anything. Please don’t do anything.” This is what the Blame Israel First crowd always says whenever Israel responds to repeated attacks by striking back against the terrorists. Always the demand is that Israel should make concessions, always condemnation is reserved for Israel’s defenders who are, Greenwald assures us, “guilty of insufficiently weighing the deaths of Palestinian innocents.”
Innocent Israelis — like Shiri Negari, killed with 18 others in a 2002 suicide attack — are curiously invisible in the Greenwaldian discourse, as if in some metaphysical sense no Israeli could ever be truly innocent. No, in the eyes of the Blame Israel Firsters, all the bloodshed in the Promised Land ultimately is on the hands of the Jews. They have internalized the Hamas narrative of “Zionist imperialism,” in which the Jews deserve whatever evil befalls them, just as Connie believed she deserved to be beaten by Carlo.
Like flashback sequences in The Godfather II, arguments over the Middle East have a way of devolving into historical trips backward in a time machine. Back to the Oslo Accords in 1993, back to the Yom Kippur War in 1973 and the Six-Day War in 1967, back to the founding of Israel in 1948, back to the Balfour Declaration in 1917, back through the history of the Ottoman Empire and so on until finally one is confronted with Isaac and Ishmael. The conflict is so ancient that any talk of peace immediately calls to mind the words of the prophet Jeremiah denouncing those who say, “Peace, peace; when there is no peace.”
Hamas has never advocated peace, and has sabotaged every effort to broker a peace between Israel and the Palestinians. Indeed, Hamas reportedly responded to the Israeli attack on Gaza by rounding up their Fatah rivals and other suspected “collaborators,” Fatah having been guilty of complicity in peace talks with Israel.
Insofar as Hamas has any coherent political philosophy, that philosophy can be summed up in two words: Kill Jews. And anyone — Arab or Jew, Muslim or infidel — who opposes that genocidal objective must sooner or later become an enemy of Hamas. The only real question is how far Hamas should be allowed to pursue its objective before Israel responds, and how far Israel can go before it goes too far.
“How many missiles is Israel to suffer before it is warranted to defend its territory and its people?” R. Emmett Tyrrell wondered last week. “It is tragic that Palestinian civilians are dying, but Hamas locates its military installations and administrative facilities in civilian areas precisely to dissuade Israel from attacking Hamas as it insouciantly bombards Israel, its soldiers, and more frequently its civilians.”
Hunkered down amid their human shields, Hamas leaders seem determined to fight to the last Palestinian civilian. Nazir Ghayan, whose death provoked Michael Goldfarb’s ruminations on “ruthlessness,” had already sent his own son to die in a suicide attack, and appears to have intentionally kept his own family at hand so they could all die together in an Israeli airstrike.
Given the persistent fanaticism of the Hamas death cult, what are we to make of those who, like Newsweek columnist Aaron David Miller, proclaim that the solution is for Barack Obama to “get tough” with Israel? Perhaps they’re Tessio, who exposes himself as a traitor by proposing a meeting with Barzini. Or maybe they’re just weak and stupid like Fredo.
We can’t fast-forward to find out how the saga ends. For now, we can only watch as Hamas learns the timeless lesson: Don’t mess with Sonny Corleone’s sister.
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Robert Stacy McCain is co-author (with Lynn Vincent) of Donkey Cons: Sex, Crime, and Corruption in the Democratic Party . A frequent contributor to the American Spectator, he blogs at The Other McCain.
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44 Comments
1. Roger L Simon:Glenn Greenwald is simply a liar – to himself. And if you can’t be honest with yourself, you can’t be honest to anyone.
Jan 5, 2009 - 11:38 am 2. David Thomson:The Palestinians are perceived by the politically correct left-wing community as normally darker skinned than the Israelis. It really is that simple. There is no sense in overcomplicating the matter. This nonsense is all about race guilt. The Palestinians are implicitly, if not even explicitly, considered to be inherently victims of white oppression.
Jan 5, 2009 - 11:54 am 3. Megan:The problem with proportionality is that it does nothing to deter the other party from further attacks. Only with a very disproportionate response will the aggressor, in this case Hamas, ever think twice about attacking. This sort of war never ends. Only when the aggressor knows that they will be attacked with a much greater devastation will they ever think of desisting. You can look to history for the proof time and again e.g. nuclear bombs on Japan only then did the leadership of Japan ever think of surrendering.
Jan 5, 2009 - 12:33 pm 4. Saltherring:I contributed the following comment on fellow PJM author Ron Rosenbaum’s article, “Comparing Hamas to Hitler…”. Hours later, it is still awaiting “moderation”. Mr. Rosenbaum also notes his pride a being a liberal Jew. I am a Christian, but am proud to support and pray for Israel and the Jewish people.
“From the perspective of American politics, I cannot grasp the term “liberal Jew”, which seems an oxymoron. It tells me those who accept such a designation care more about their pampered, “old money” lifestyle than about their brothers and sisters in Israel. Perhaps liberal, western Jews will begin to understand the struggle when leftist European and American leaders turn their backs as radical Muslims openly burn synagogues and attack Jewish citizens on the streets of EU/US cities, while “good people” watch and do nothing. Israel will become the only refuge, and liberalism will no longer be an alternative.”
Jan 5, 2009 - 12:43 pm 5. jerryofva:Megan:
Proportionality in war does not refer to tit-for-tat. Proportional forces is the force required to bring a conflict to a swift conclusion with a lowest possible loss of life. Sticking to the misinterpreted definition of proportionality would violate this principle because wars will go on and on with more loss of life in the long run.
Israel has gone to extreme measures to minimize civilian casualties at the expense of increasing their own military casualties. See reference below:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2009/01/022466.php
Jan 5, 2009 - 1:01 pm 6. DoubleTapper:Life is not a Mario Puzo Novel.
It’s not a movie either!
DoubleTapper
Jan 5, 2009 - 1:07 pm 7. Mike T:DoubleTapper@gmail.com
DoubleTapper, blogging on Guns Politics Defense from Israel
It’s really all quite simple, and can be broken down like this:
-Liberals supported giving some land to the Jews out of guilt for the Holocaust, in spite of the normal left-wing tendency to engage in hatred of the Jews.
-Liberals felt like they could wash their hands of the Jews by giving them this land to assuage their guilty, and then looked on in horror as the Jews actually, *drum roll* defended their territory and then conquered more territory when invaded by the Arabs.
-Liberals now look on in horror as a nation founded by millions of survivors of state-sanctioned genocide, theft, rape and plunder defend themselves against their barbaric neighbors who wage war behind civilian human shields.
-Liberals look on in rage as many of their fellow Westerners and the majority of Israel don’t feel bad that thousands of Palestinians get killed in the process in every “intifada” or resumption of hostilities because the Palestinian civilians allow themselves to be used as human shields.
Israel wasn’t supposed to be a success. At best, it was supposed to end up like Liberia with a Jewish elite in an arab-dominated region living tenuously together. Realistically, the Jews were supposed to be wiped out by the 1948 war, so that the left could see them finally exterminated and have that subconscious pleasure, while being able to consciously feel solace in the fact that “they tried to make things right” by giving them 3 marginally connected scraps of land.
Jan 5, 2009 - 1:10 pm 8. DD:How amusing and sad that the progressive left is throwing its support behind Hamas – the islamist fundamentalist misogynist homophobic west hating death cult masquerading as a liberation force.
Here is the thing. This clash will only end when the Pals admit to themselves that they will never win. Once this happens, they can reach their accomodation with Israel and move on with their lives. Unfortunately, it looks like they will have to suffer a catastrophic defeat before they clue in to this obvious truth. The really sad irony is that all the useful idiots proclaiming their ’support’ for the Pals are really doing them the most harm by feeding their illusion that they can win. If people really care about the Pals, the best thing they can do is help to convince them to give up and move on.
Jan 5, 2009 - 1:37 pm 9. fred:If the enemy is hiding behind civilians or is placing his military assets, which I must strike, within civilians – I’m sorry, but the collateral casualties who are noncombatants fall on the heads of the people using the noncombatants as shields.
People like Greenwald, and Zbigniew Bryzhinski (who was quoted as condemning Israel’s response on the grounds of “disproportionality”)may fancy themselves as elite thinkers in matters of policy, but when you break it down they are intellectual lightweights. Any classically trained philosopher and/or theologian could clean their clocks in a debate about the ethics of just about anything.
Isn’t it a bit scary that in this country policy is often driven by people who are such intellectual charlatans? They may have degrees from elite institutions, but that does not mean that they are true thinkers. Drop any very clever human being into a classroom at Harvard, Yale, Columbia, or Stanford, and if he’s a very good memorizer he can ape the professors’ drivel and use their material in slightly creative ways to get a good grade. He can then network with the right people and organizations after he gets his sheepskin and, voila, he’s off and running. Twenty years later he’s nested inside the policy or business establishment, making pronouncements from on high.
A high proportion of the rest of the population will ape his logic and his views because they come from someone who is respected from the best schools. Politicians will sign ‘em up as advisers. Very few people will break down what these people think, write, and speak to check for faulty logic or deviations from reasonable, rational ways of thinking. In other words, it takes someone with a sound mind and a good education to tell the emperor that he has no clothes on.
Jan 5, 2009 - 1:59 pm 10. SAF:Many Jews of European and Russian decent where into being victims. Those that had enough of it left and emigrated to Palestine. Of those who remained a large portion where killed in the concentration camps.
The founders of Israel decided not to be victims again. And so Israel has survived all these years in a hostile world and an even hostile neighborhood. Many of the Jews who criticize Israel for defending herself are simply jealous of those Jews who rejected victim hood.
Jan 5, 2009 - 2:03 pm 11. Saltherring:One fact every Middle Eastern Muslim knows: Israel will never go down without rendering the whole region a glass parking lot.
Jan 5, 2009 - 3:11 pm 12. thegr8 1:Hamas has shot 6000 missiles at Israel. Israel is now entitled to hit Hamas with 6000 bombs. Just because Israel’s bombs are bigger and they know how to aim them, that does not constitute a disproportionate response. The problem is if Hamas has one soldier left and one rocket left they will still launch it. Short of a nuclear bomb hitting Gaza City the rockets will not stop from Gaza.
Jan 5, 2009 - 4:47 pm 13. ~Paules:I’ve heard speculation that Russia and Iran want to start conflicts like this to raise the price of oil.
An Israeli talk host said to pray for them with Psalm 20. If you don’t want to pray for Israel, you are on the side that is worse than Hitler and you are the ones who deserve to burn in the ovens.
@fred
The most dangerous enemy of any ideological movement is the apostate. I have read many of your comments, and I assume you fully understand the potential consequences of your public words. You, sir, are no one’s fool. Certain devices available for public purchase will stop “Nacht und Nebel” on the doorstep, or maybe defer the consequences, but only for a very short time. See you to it, brother, see you to it.
Jan 5, 2009 - 4:50 pm 14. IsraelsFriend:Guys, here’s the root of the problem. Watch this 3 minute video and let’s chat after that.
Jan 5, 2009 - 5:46 pm 15. Daniel:Children of Hamas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTGbP55HGi8
On proportionality:
Isn’t a proportional response “an eye for an eye?” Doesn’t that “just make the whole world blind?”
Liberals especially then, as such admirers of Gandhi, should not advocate proportionality. I urge them to keep their own eyes, to not let them be lost. Disproportionally strike so that there may be peace, at least a peace of the dead.
Jan 5, 2009 - 6:08 pm 16. cedarford:Fred – People like …. Zbigniew Bryzhinski (who was quoted as condemning Israel’s response on the grounds of “disproportionality”)may fancy themselves as elite thinkers in matters of policy, but when you break it down they are intellectual lightweights. Any classically trained philosopher and/or theologian could clean their clocks in a debate about the ethics of just about anything.
You really are one ignorant Christian Zionist stooge, Fred.
Brzezinski has had a formidable career. He has about 25 major intellectual and policy accomplishements to his name…compared to your Zero.
Plus about 35 books and major papers – academic and Gov’t White Papers.
He started in childhood, actually, when his Dad was posted to Berlin. He witnessed the rise of the Nazis. Then to Moscow just in time for the Great Purge, to realize that many of his Dad’s Soviet dinner guests were being killed off. His grad thesis, in 1949, anticipated almost entirely, the 1991 breakup of the Soviet Union along ethnic boundaries. In his mid-20s, he collaborated with Carl J. Friedrich to develop the concept of totalitarianism and apply it to the Soviets in 1956.
He was an advisor or officeholder in each Administration from the Kennedy Administration onwards, except for Ford and Dubya’s time.
When dumbasses like Fred think the likes of Brzezinski are intellectual lightweights, hope rises in my heart for all those hard-working Nigerian email scammers.
(Yes, Prince Habilolsah Mtebe Halassin III, there ARE Americans stupid enough to send you 10,000 dollars to help secure the 2 million in royal funds you promise to send to our guillable or oblivious “Freds”. Keep those emails coming. Where there are “Freds”, there is hope..)
Jan 5, 2009 - 6:23 pm 17. uburoisc:Proportional response in the leftist dictionary means taking unnecessary casualties to demonstrate your regard for the good opinion of leftists.
It also means that the fruits of an advanced civilization, namely, an advanced military, must never be used because it is unfair to fight a failed, backward culture that does not have these fruits. The IDF should fight with knives in single combat.
Jan 5, 2009 - 7:02 pm 18. Ann:The Arab/Muslim answer to the question “exactly how much terrorist abuse is Israele expected to suffer….?” is easily answered: “Three days: yesterday, today and tomorrow.”
The Arab countries don’t have a limit in mind, unless that limit occurs one hour after Israel has been erased from the earth.
Why must these discussions being endlessly recycled? The only thing that changes is who is writing the articles or making the statements. It’s been the same ping pong word game for the last 60 years.
Jan 5, 2009 - 7:34 pm 19. James:I AM APPALLED AT THE IGNORANCE POSTED HERE! It is soooo obvious that Team Bush/Cheney is orchestrating a “one last ditch effort” at war to fill the coffers of their military-industrial-complex buddies. Bush/Cheney gave the green light to their Israeli stooges to wage a totally disproportionate war on helpless Palestinians! And the third part of the Bush/Cheney act is that guy from Bay Watch. What’s his name? Hasselhoff, that’s it. That Hasselhoff keeps speading his filthy Bay Watch smut all over Gaia’s creation, turning the entire third-world into a big “hate America” groupie. That’s what we get with the despicable Bush/Cheney/Hasselhoff trio….war, smut, and international hatred.
Jan 5, 2009 - 7:46 pm 20. fred:Islam + Western socialism/Marxism = people like “James” @19
Unholy Alliance
Jan 5, 2009 - 8:01 pm 21. WhyamInotsurprised?:Whoa James! A little too much cool-aid maybe?
Your response truly represents a “liberal” point of view. Anyone that differs from your view is “IGNORANT” huh? What a pompous “southern end of a northern bound horse.”
Feel your time is running short to blame everything on Bush & Co? Well, don’t despair, even in retirement your glorious MSM will continue to blame Bush for every difficulty “The One” has to face. Complain, bitch, moan! It’s always someone else’s fault. Shame shame. Accept the blame.
Jan 5, 2009 - 8:12 pm 22. Judy, NYC:the world has become an unbearable place.
it’s as if the whole planet has sunk into the medieval ethos.
the asinine left dragging themselves toward the haj. with not the slightest shard of truth in their “protests” completely, even laughably ignorant of history. our own. the middle east. civilization pressing onward.
this is not a jewish problem. it’s a judeo-christian, buddhist, agnostic, anything-but-muslim problem. this is worldwide terrorism. i suppose, until the ignoramuses, the supporters of the miscreants, are hanging around somewhere (owing to hamas introducing crucifixion into “sharia law”), or rstheir own heads are bouncing around on the ground, having been chopped off, these fools will deny it.
all the dead have been forgotten, the murdered thousands with their skin on fire and those who held hands and jumped to their death from the world trade center. the muslim jackels cheering rather disproportionately, clapping, dancing around, and making those weird, eerie disgusting sounds of joyous victory, firing rifles into the air thinking 10,000 of us had been killed by their hand.
oh, yeah. let us now have another round of applause from world opinion. and, just before we get to hades, make sure to turn left.
Jan 5, 2009 - 9:54 pm 23. IsraelsFriend:Please watch and share this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTGbP55HGi8
Jan 5, 2009 - 10:20 pm 24. stuart Williamson:In all the history of mankind there has never been as great a demonstration of the impossibility of resolution of conflict by dialog when one of the parties is fully committed to the extinction of the other, than in the Israel/jihadist situation. No reasoning person would call for “proportionate response” in Gaza – a continuation of hollow posturing, a perpetuation of stalemate, Most of us learned by the time we were in elementary school that trying to reason with bullies is totally non-effective. And bullies have no regard for the interests of of their “friends” or Jimmy Carter style brown-nosers..
This is not a crisis deserving of deep analysis or nuance or soul-searching. It is Bully Treating 101. The Godfather example is valid. Sonny’s outraged beating of Carlo was disproportionate in his sister’s eyes. But Carlo knew that Sonny had held back and that if he transgressed he would certainly be killed – very unpleasantly
Anyone sincerely interested in Peace in the Middle East should hope that the IDF delivers a thoroughly “disproportionate” drubbing to Hamas, because no other message will register on Iran or its satraps.
No other message will bring hope of relief to the Palestinian people.
And Israel will need to be wary of betrayal by some of its “allies”.
Jan 6, 2009 - 12:54 am 25. Benson:Daniel, comment 15 –
The “…peace of the dead.” Gandhi insisted that, on discovering that the Nazis hated them, the Jews of the world should have committed mass suicide.
“Creeps me out,” as the kids say.
Jan 6, 2009 - 1:39 am 26. Like A Hollywood Finocchio:Keep in mind, Sonny Corleone is no role model. He was fiscally irresponsible, putting “a hundred button men on the street twenty-four hours a day,” in a costly no-win conflict. Even Vito later remarks, “Santino was a bad Don, rest in peace.”
Also worth noting that Carlo used his abuse of Connie to “finger Sonny for the Barzini people.” No, the Corleone to emulate is clearly Michael.
Michael understands “It’s not personal… It’s strictly business.” But when he makes a move, he moves with “disproportionate” force. Both Sonny and Michael mention making Connie a widow, but Michael actually does it. Michael assassinates both Sollozzo and McClusky, and later, takes on all Five Families at once. But after all, Michael was a Marine.
Next week, let’s discuss Clemenza and his thoughts on stopping Hitler at Munich.
Jan 6, 2009 - 2:41 am 27. Ken Besig:According to the New York Times and all the other bulwarks of American Left wing and Liberal thinking, there are no circumstances whatsoever for Israel to ever take up arms to defend herself against any enemy. This while the same Left Liberals can justify or excuse Palestinian murder and violence against any Israeli at any time. Of course that is logic and morality turned upside down, but isn’t that what the Left Liberals are all about anyway?
Jan 6, 2009 - 3:34 am 28. Ann:22. Judy.
Well done. I agree.
Jan 6, 2009 - 4:33 am 29. Ann:Fred…right on.
Jan 6, 2009 - 4:38 am 30. Another View:I just have ask what is acceptable? O.K. Israel is there NOW. They have with the Balfour Agreement conquered Palestine. With that said does that give them moral authority to do what they do? I think not. If my house was bulldozed and my Grandparents refused to leave the house they built and had paper work for and were murdered. I would also fight to the death. What is sad is the innocent suffer. Hamas and every Palestinian has every right to try to force Israel from Palestine. I am embarrassed by my countrys support for Israel. Yes born and reared in the U.S. How many of you would support American Indian land seizure today? Or Apartheid, Darfur ethnic cleansing, or the holocaust? That is what has been going on for years in Israel.
Those Hamas rockets are glorified fireworks. I completely understand why the Arabs call us the Great Satan and want Israel destroyed. I don’t agree but I truly understand. Israel is a oppressive occupier. And I want none of my tax dollars going there way. Israel gets the equivalent to $10,000.00 a year per citizen in U.S. aid.
You can’t address todays issues without facing what Israel really is. A occupying force that hordes all resources and keeps the original people in permanent refugee status.
Religion is a non factor in my view.
Jan 6, 2009 - 5:58 am 31. Lynn:All comes down to one simple logic, if someone tries to kill you, you kill them back. Period!
Jan 6, 2009 - 6:03 am 32. Peter the Sub Guy:Hamas is getting exactly what they deserve. There is no “proportionality” in wars, he who has the biggest stick wins.
18. Ann asks:
Why must these discussions being endlessly recycled? The only thing that changes is who is writing the articles or making the statements. It’s been the same ping pong word game for the last 60 years.
Peter responds: Because unfortunately, Ann, the only thing that has changed in the last 60 years is how unfairly vilified Israel is for defending its own nation and citizens. And unfortunately that people (like cedarford, who only believes things that conform to his leftist view, and James, who uses any opportunity to Bush-bash that comes along [In case you haven't noticed, James, this war is between Israel and Hamas. The US/Bush-Cheney Administration/Military-Industrial Complex has nothing to do with this!]) believe only what they want to believe and don’t actually look into the history and background of conflicts like these. And the only way to get them to shut up is to brow-beat them with facts until they give up and crawl back into their dark, dank liberal hole they crawled out of.
Jan 6, 2009 - 6:50 am 33. Peter the Sub Guy:22. Judy, NYC wrote:
it’s as if the whole planet has sunk into the medieval ethos.
Peter responds: Well, isn’t that where the Islamofacists are trying to drag us? Or even worse, a new dark ages (in all senses of the word)?
Jan 6, 2009 - 6:52 am 34. Spindok:myth #1. Israel was created because of western ‘guilt’.
Guilt shmilt.
Nobody wanted to take in the Jewish refugees left over after WWII. They had nowhere else to go. They were dumped in a barren wasteland surrounded by hostiles.
To the european mind it was inconceivable that Jews could build roads, farm, or raise an army. Just to be sure they saw to it that the Jews recieved to technical or finiancial support from any government and were subject to a strict arms embargo.
They were supposed to die there or wither away. The British set up everything to ensure that would happen and left them to the Arab Leauge, a modern army they had trained and equipped, to finish them off.
That did not happen and most of ‘the world’ has been trying to rectify that ever since.
Never again
Spindok
Jan 6, 2009 - 7:10 am 35. Peter the Sub Guy:30. Another View wrote:
Hamas and every Palestinian has every right to try to force Israel from Palestine.
Peter responds: And there is where you are wrong. There is not now and has never been a country called Palestine. There was a Palestinian territory in the British Mandate of the Middle East prior to 1948, but it had just as many Jews living there as there were Arabs, so what makes the Arab claim any more valid than the Jews? The jews have been in the region for 5000 years, about 3500 years longer than Islam has even existed, so what gives the Islamists any more of a claim than the Jews? In 1948 the British said “We are giving each of you some land and giving control of it to you.” Then placed the Jews on one area of land and the Arabs on another. The Arabs didn’t like that and went to war over the land ,and got their @$$es soundly beaten. Then they went to war again and again got their @$$es soundly beaten. The same thing keeps happening over and over and over. Like the quote attributed to Einstein, “Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.” The Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank would probably have a healthy, thriving society (and perhaps even their own country called Palestine) by now, and for many years, if they had turned their attention to progress instead of hate and terror a long time ago.
Jan 6, 2009 - 7:29 am 36. Michael Canzano:Phyllis , Sonny’s sister should give Greenwald her bra.
Jan 6, 2009 - 7:42 am 37. Spindok:American Christian Dago Infidel
30. Another View wrote:
Hamas and every Palestinian has every right to try to force Israel from Palestine.
Such an interesting statement that I had to comment on it. There is no arguing with folks like Another View but there is a lot to learn from this.
I think the phrase “force Israel from Palestine” is very telling. Israel is a State located on part of the territory often referred to as Palestine. States cannot be ‘forced out’ of a place, only people can. States can change names or governments, but that is not at all what is meant here. Forced out clearly refers to the population.
So why does the author use the term “Israel” rather than the much less ambiguous term “Jews”. Hamas has no trouble stating this in public. The goal is to drive the Jews from Palestine.
So the author here doesnt want to say “jews”. Yet the rest of the post makes it clear. “They have with the Balfour Agreement conquered Palestine.” Well the Balfour agreement and ‘conquest’ referred to cant possibly be about Israeli Arabs, Christians, or Druze. Yet once again the author omits the term “Jews” and refers to softer “they”.
So why is Another View so reluctant to plainly state what he means? Because he cant deal with the plain statement “Hamas and every Palestinian has every right to try to force the Jews from Palestine.” Although this is the publicy stated goal of Hamas who have no problem stating things for what they are.
Such intellectual cowardice. Typical.
Spindok
Jan 6, 2009 - 9:33 am 38. Hythloday:Spindok at 37 nails it. Put another way, Israel has an absolute right to defend itself against attacks. Forget the argument that Israel was given the land in 1948. Despite any grousing as to its legitimacy, the creation of Israel is consistent with the origins and principles of the acquisition of land. Israeli attacks may appear disproportionate but given its relationship with its neighbors, its history with Hamas, and how those who hate Israel would capitalize on the mere appearance of a hesitation, nothing short of an unwavering defense is its only option.
Jan 6, 2009 - 10:18 am 39. Robert Stacy McCain:#26, I like your analysis. Of course you are right that Michael is the greatest of the Corleones. But the current situation in Gaza is much more like Santino pounding on Carlo. If I’d wanted to go another 200 words, I might have reflected on the Sonny/Michael contrast, how even peace-loving liberal Israeli leaders ultimately find themselves forced to be as hawkish as the Likudniks, just as Michael must take the extreme step of wiping out the heads of the five families (and let’s not forget Moe Green). “Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.”
Jan 6, 2009 - 12:14 pm 40. Shooter1001:Sonny did wrong giving Carlo a beating! Carlo should know what happens when you hit the daughter of somebody like Don Corleone. No excuses! No second chances. Carlo takes a dirt nap. No beating. Connie will get over it!
Jan 6, 2009 - 12:33 pm 41. Shooter1001:Sonny should know that Carlo would never be loyal, never. Period.
So, what does this analogy teach? Destroy your enemies. The self-hating Jews et al
The self-hating Jews et al will get over it when Hamas is dead.
Jan 6, 2009 - 12:35 pm 42. Hythloday:Sonny’s mistake was responding to Carlo’s beating of Connie with a beating of Carlo – a proportional response that ended up costing Sonny his life. Let me offer another analogy courtesy of Jimmy Malone in the Untouchables: “You wanna know how to get Capone? They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That’s the Chicago way!” Perhaps Israel could ask our new President for tips from his time in the Windy City.
Jan 7, 2009 - 9:53 am 43. Ann:Peter the sub guy: endless patience and restating of historical facts is part of what has to be done, I know. I just get really tired of the high voltage opinions originating in low information brains.
Thanks for your comments and efforts aimed at education.
Jan 7, 2009 - 10:01 am 44. JP49:Glad I found this site. Israel has every right to defend herself and her people, whether Jews, Christians, Muslims or whatever who live within her borders. The reason Israel had to put a wall up is to keep suicide bombers out because the terror of having their buses, shops and of course their citizens blown to bits had to stop.
Jan 7, 2009 - 5:06 pmTry watching this movie if you can:
http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/
Here is the history of Israel. Even though the British supposedly gave the land to Israel, by truth and right it has always been theirs.
http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html
Islamists and terrorists are one in the same. People must stop treating them with kid gloves out of either stupidity like if I talk nice to you then you won’t kill me. Remember Mr. Berg in Iraq and many others that were beheaded on television for their hateful viewing pleasure. If Israel and the Jews are wipe off the face of the earth, how long do you think it will be until we become their next full on target. We have already been the victims of several attacks by these Islamic fanatics. Israel is not responsible for the Palestinian people (There has never been a people called Palestinians). The bombing of the UN school it is found out today on Atlas Shrugs that Hamas had rigged it to blow up.