Pajamas Media

68 Comments

1. Michael Prescott:

Actually, Lindbergh and Yeager were doing what they wanted to do. Is that heroic or success in pursuit of a selfish endeavor. If they failed and died I am sure they would be overshadowed, let alone forgotten, by the individual who eventually accomplished their feats. A heroic effort, a valiant effort or a survivor of extraordinary struggle; which is valid in today’s easy parlance. You question the magnificent job this pilot and crew did in landing this aircraft in the rapid choppy waters of the Hudson River. I guarantee you, that all the witnessing pilots did not think as you state but rather realized that in the same situation they hoped they would be capable of accomplishing the same results. Realize this; arm chair quarterbacks, as biting as they may pride themselves to be, are bores.

Feb 7, 2009 - 1:47 am 2. tommyd:

I take it you, Mr. Simberg, were NOT on that flight.

Feb 7, 2009 - 4:40 am 3. canuck:

Very well written but could have emphasized that the media and the rest of us are not generally exposed to individuals that conduct themselves as Sully did…no chest beating, no contract to appear on Oprah, and was the first to admit that the crew were in fact doing their job.

The ignorant clowns that try to bring their entire wardrobe on to place in the overhead or the great unwashed that still give credibility to the Media don’t get it. This is how “professionals” conduct themselves. This is the meaning of the word. Sully just doesn’t care about them or self promotion…they are not used to that.

He just wants to get back in the left seat before his ticket expires at age 60, a limit imposed by 60+ politicians who continue to crash dive our society.

Feb 7, 2009 - 4:52 am 4. Leigh Thelmadatter:

While I understand the author’s point and Sully himself is probably embarrased by the attention (we havent seen him trying to cash in on his 15 minutes of fame), I think in the long run all this embarrassing adulation is probably a good thing.

While being a pilot is one of those jobs with some glamor aspect to it, nearly a century after Lindberg’s fight, flying has “lost its edge” Most of us have flown multiple times and we have forgottn how dangerous flying can be…. even with terrorists aside. It is only when we have a case like Sully’s or when we ourselves are on a flight where not everything goes smooth do we remember that at any moment we can drop like a rock.

I cannot agree that the adulation afforded to Sully diminishes other pilots. That would be saying that the honor afforded the police, firemen and other public servants who died on Sept 11, somehow diminishes other police firemen etc. After all, they were doing their jobs too.

Unfortunately, we live in an age where the classic hero, those with true grit has been replaced by trash-talking wrestlers and rap artists and with political leaders who will give away everything we value in the name of “peace”

Let Sully be an example…. we sure need him for that.

Feb 7, 2009 - 4:55 am 5. Flighterdoc:

Congrats to Capt. Sully – and kudos on being the FIRST airliner pilot to successfully ditch. Lots have tried it, with far worse results.

Feb 7, 2009 - 5:17 am 6. happy1ga:

I so agree with this article! I was also deeply impressed that Capt. Sully did such a great job, with grace under fire, but he strikes me as a man who neither asked for, or really wanted this type of adulation. Can you imagine how embarassed he is now, when he is with other great pilots? I am glad he was praised that day, and he was praised the next, but after that, let the man alone, he is just a normal good guy, doing what he was hired to do. It is actually sad, that so many people out there don’t know any other real life heroes.

Feb 7, 2009 - 5:36 am 7. e:

The media likes to put anyone who stands out on a pedestal. The pilot deserves a lot of praise even if the media overdid it.

Tell you what is really disappointing the Hollywood types is that they’re having trouble turning this into a movie. Have something about airline fat cats not respond to the pilot’s requests against proper maintenance or use of a new anti-bird technology. They really wish they could find some way to blame Bush and corporations.

Feb 7, 2009 - 6:16 am 8. Nancy Heil:

My quibble with this article is that Sully had showed such exemplary devotion to his craft and thus was prepared for the situation. I trust my pilots but I doubt that most of them work as hard at the basics as he did. I hope that his example is a lesson to young pilots.

Feb 7, 2009 - 6:51 am 9. ElectricPhase:

Real heroes never want excessive praise, and always say they just did their jobs. That doesn’t invalidate the accolades. Besides, hero worship ultimately isn’t for the hero. It’s for the worshipers. It’s not wrong or undesirable–just human.

Feb 7, 2009 - 7:00 am 10. Charlie (Colorado):

Rand, you’r off base here. Flying the plane, picking the only real landing opportunity, successfully ditching the plane (the first time ever with a commercial jetliner, I beieve) — those were doing his job.

Sounding as calm as he did on the radio in the face of fear, not letting the fear overcome him? That’s courage.

Walking the aidle of an airplane sinking in the ice-cold Hundon — twice — to make sure he was really the last one off: heroism.

Feb 7, 2009 - 7:20 am 11. Cybergeezer:

This is a sample of real “mettle”. Something our Founding Fathers had and practiced.
This man should be in the White House, not the imitation “leader” that’s there now, although he’d probably turn down the job. Men of great character know better than to put themselves into positions where their character will be assassinated.
Not to worry if you have no character to assassinate.

Feb 7, 2009 - 7:27 am 12. Richard Bienvenu:

The Right Stuff: Tom Wolfe probably borrowed this phrase from TR who uses it at least a couple of times in his autobiography. Wolfe, I am told, admires TR greatly.

Feb 7, 2009 - 7:51 am 13. jambosana:

He may have been trained for this possibility but that shouldn’t detract from what must surely be a remarkable feat of flying. Piloting a glider that has the weight of a passenger jet? That sounds like quite a challenge, especially when it was so unexpected. I also wouldn’t be so certain that any other pilot finding themselves in such a situation would have splashed down safely.

Praise where praise is due. Why quibble if it’s arguably a little over the top?

Feb 7, 2009 - 7:56 am 14. Matt:

Actually, the mandatory retirement age has been raised to 65 for commercial airline pilots.

Feb 7, 2009 - 8:15 am 15. tanstaafl:

…Sullenberger as a hero, but he was simply a pilot doing his job, like all the others.

Yeah, but he made a split second decision that he couldn’t make Teterboro and to ditch in the Hudson.

And I don’t know how many commercial pilots would have or could have been that heads up in the same situation.

The media, of course, hammers and exaggerates and distorts many stories they get ahold of these days, ad nauseam.

Feb 7, 2009 - 8:17 am 16. Mary Madigan:

New York magazine is one of the worst examples of how the media gets aviation wrong. Their article on Sully and other pilots whose response to crisis was genuinely hero is titled “The Last Aviator – Why they don’t make pilots like Sully anymore” Yes, they’re willing to admit that these few military-trained “cowboy” pilots are heroic, but they also condemn a whole generation of up and coming pilots.

This ‘last aviator’ focus ignores the fact that Sullenberger has a business, “Safety, Reliability Methods” which trains young pilots to fly safely. Since these safety methods are part of standard pilot training, there should be plenty of pilots like Sully.

Feb 7, 2009 - 8:34 am 17. gdpmumin:

You honestly think that any and every commercial pilot could have landed that plane in the river without any casualties whatsoever? That’s insanity. I agree the media coverage is over the top, but it isn’t the media that’s slandering other pilots. It is you who is slandering Sullenberger. Sullenberger isn’t my hero; I don’t go to bed at night swooning over him. But I think that very, very few pilots could have landed that plane successfully. And to indicate that he put his own safety ahead of others is nauseating.

Feb 7, 2009 - 8:34 am 18. Kay:

Yes, he did his job exceptionally well. The heroism does come in the aftermath where he was no longer solely responsible for everything. Unfortunately, our country is run by far lesser individuals.

Feb 7, 2009 - 8:40 am 19. Sassenach:

Fight like you train; train like you fight. Captain Sullenberger ditched successfully because he has a career-long focus on safety and thinking ahead about the unthinkable. Yes, there were a series of circumstances that made success possible — his training enabled him to take advantage of those circumstances. This is what distinguishes him.

And yes, there are other well-trained, serious pilots who could have done the same thing. That doesn’t diminish the accomplishment. It does, however, emphasize the importance of training.

Feb 7, 2009 - 8:53 am 20. Anonymous:

gdpmumin:

gdpmumin:

You honestly think that any and every commercial pilot could have landed that plane in the river without any casualties whatsoever?

Clearly not – I’ve been a pilot for 30+ years, flew F4’s in the US Air Force (just a couple of years after Sully), have 11K non-commercial aviation flight hours of experience and I can’t recall another successful ditching of a commercial airliner.

He did a good job – nobody is minimizing that, and he demonstrated terrific CRM and aplomb. Especially walking the aisles to confirm everyone was off the plane. But lets not discount pure luck and/or divine intervention in that days activities.

Feb 7, 2009 - 9:12 am 21. Rand Simberg:

You honestly think that any and every commercial pilot could have landed that plane in the river without any casualties whatsoever?

No, I don’t think that, and I didn’t write that.

Feb 7, 2009 - 9:18 am 22. BC:

Look, the world cancered with people who not only don’t their supposed jobs well, if at all, but who also seldom can bring themselves to ever do the right thing when the moment calls for it.

Remember back to 1982 when that Air Florida plane crashed into the Potomac River in mid-January, and there was that guy, Lenny Skutnik, who just happened to be in the area, and he was on the shore watching what was going on amid crews of media and emergency people. A female passenger who had swum up from the sunken plane was bobbing about in the river and was about to pass out and drown before a helicopter team could rescue her when Skutnik jumped into the icy water to swim to her, saving her life at literally the last second. This was broadcast live on network TV, so at that point there were an awful of other people around, but only one guy thought to leap in. In some respects, he too was merely doing his “job” as a responsible adult — he was a strong swimmer, there was a matter of life and death nearby where his help could make a critical difference, so you could say that he only did what any capable, responsible person should have done.

But that’s what true “heroism” often only amounts to — just doing that right, responsible thing when the moment is upon you, however unexpected, badly timed, difficult or even risky it may be.

By the way, there is a Coast Guard surveillance video that captured the entire NY water landing from crash to rescue:
http://b1ff.org/2009/01/17/1398/coast-guard-video-of-usa-1549-landingrescue

The action starts just after the 3:31 PM mark (by the camera clock) — watch closely the left edge of the picture (they zoom in shortly thereafter).

Feb 7, 2009 - 9:38 am 23. Brian Richard Allen:

“” So the cockpit tapes of the US Airways flight have come out ….” “”

Actually, no, they have not. The ATC tapes have been released. The cockpit tapes are primary evidence and will not be available until much later, either as part of or subsequent to the promulgation of the accident report.

And, meanwhile, thank you for an otherwise spot on take on this whole sully business. You bet all of those on board that (sc)Airbus were lucky there was a river handy. I’m a thirty-five thousand hour (kinda)-retired career Aviator and have, along with every other (actual — ever-increasing numbers of those in pilot costumes and up in the pointy bit are only wearing the clothes!) I’ve ever flown with always maintained that anyone fortunate to be sitting behind me is already having a lucky day!

Brian Richard Allen
Los Angeles – CalifUBAMBIcated 90028 and the Far Abroad

Feb 7, 2009 - 10:26 am 24. Rachel Peepers:

Rand,

You sit at your computer, coffee cup at your side in the safety of your office and write nonsense about a guy who saved hundreds of lives. I can’t respect that.

Especially since in my humble opinion, you have no idea what you’re talking about. You sully the heroic act of a man who exemplifies courage under fire. Not commendable.

You see, this pilot you so flippantly try to tear down didn’t have a smooth place to land as you write.
Fact is, water landings are almost always injury filled or fatal. There’s nothing smooth about a water landing.

The smoothness and fearlessness of his voice in time of crisis is, for me, the tipoff that Sullenberger is of the stuff heroes are made.

For that calm in his voice is evidence of a calm to the man’s core; part of his very fibre. Sullenberger is the kind of guy, as his wife so aptly put it, you want on your side in a crisis. In the face of imminent catastrophe, he was rock solid.

I suppose you’d argue that Audie Murphy was simply doing his job when he grabbed the 50MM machine gun on that tank in 1944.

That Martin Luther King was simply doing his job, too.

That Claire Phillips was simply trying to save her husband.

That Jackie Robinson was just another talented baseball player.

Does Lenny Skutnik rise to your heroism bar?

Were the firefighters on 9/11 simply doing their job?

Rand, this column, though written by an obviously talented writer, has a thesis that deserves scorn and ridicule. Life is too short to waste your time and talent on drivel like this.

Feb 7, 2009 - 10:36 am 25. zombyboy:

Anyone can quibble over the definition of hero and of whether he deserves the title (I would be on record with a hearty “Indeed-heh”), but here is what it comes down to in my book: if I had kids, I would want them to see this and see him being lauded for it. It’s a lesson in what we value as a society: responsibility, courage, self-sacrifice, and then having a humble attitude about it at the end of the day.

I would much rather have kids looking up to that behavior than taking as “heroic” the behavior of any number of athletes or Hollywood figures. Certainly there are some of those who deserve praise for what they do, but it would be hard to label any of them as “hero” at the end of the day. What they do for a living is always some level of play time; what Sully did was a matter of keeping those folks alive for another day.

What does get me is when anyone calls it a miracle. It wasn’t: it was a captain, a crew, passengers, and then the people around them all doing what needed to be done in a time of crisis. The lesson to learn is to be prepared, to be brave in the face of long odds, and to work hard at whatever it is that you do.

Sully is a great example of something that seems terribly rare these days: an adult. That may not be heroic, but it’s certainly something to celebrate and hope our kids learn to emulate.

Feb 7, 2009 - 10:54 am 26. ic:

You want to know who a real hero is: John Paul Stapp, someone whom you have never heard of. He was the “Fastest Man on Earth”, has endured 46G, a whiteout and a redout…

http://improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volume9/v9i5/murphy/murphy2.html

“Stapp is …. a ghost in the machine of every modern airplane and automobile, making sure that when things go wrong — really wrong — they don’t become much worse.”

Feb 7, 2009 - 11:22 am 27. Mack Hall:

Sully is a hero.

Feb 7, 2009 - 11:52 am 28. Margaret:

It is a good article. I understand what you are saying, but I do not agree with one thing: that most other commercial pilots could do the same thing.

I have already seen comments from pilots, and pilots associations that have stated that they never thought it could be done.

The comment of the co-pilot to Sully is the most telling “you pulled it off”.

I have written my own story on this because I am full of admiration for what Sullenberger did during the crisis. It was not all that hard to see that he had the military training to be able to think clearly and make those split second decisions about where he could ditch the plane.

The heroism and expertise comes from the very way in which he pulled himself together in the face of such danger to guide the plane as it glided towards the Hudson River. The fact that he pulled the nose up to ensure that when the plane hit the water it did not break up is what others described as “text-book” stuff.

Sully does not see himself as a hero. He was very modest on the day. The press have been beating it up and yes there is no story for Hollywood, or maybe there is a story regarding why it is that the Canada geese are a protected species and allowed to increase in numbers like that, and that there is not a fence to stop them causing such an incident.

Military pilots are trained for this kind of situation. They need to be able to think clearly so that they can try to safely land their aircraft, and if possible not eject and walk away from a dangerous situation. This kind of training that Sully received in the Air Force is certainly what helped him to save the lives of all who were on board that plane.

This is a real tribute to the pilot, to the military and to all of the flight crew on board that day.

As for why it is a miracle – yes it was: first of all the pilot did not panic, second the crew got on with what had to be done without panic, the passengers remained calm and acted accordingly. No one died from hypothermia because the rescue got underway very rapidly. That is what I call divine intervention working through people. Miracles happen in different ways these days – they happen through people doing their jobs and people who rely upon God to help them do their jobs well. Many good pilots in a time of crisis do not act with such a presence of mind and that is the real difference.

Feb 7, 2009 - 11:57 am 29. Ellie:

If the author’s premise is correct — that every other US Air pilot (or, by implication all pilots)– could have done the same, then why are there any fatal crashes? Why is this the first successful ditch?

Feb 7, 2009 - 12:11 pm 30. Rand Simberg:

If the author’s premise is correct — that every other US Air pilot (or, by implication all pilots)– could have done the same

That is not my premise.

then why are there any fatal crashes? Why is this the first successful ditch?

Most ditches are into the ocean, with a high sea state (the waves tend to rapidly slow down and break up the aircraft), and many of them happen with less than optimal control of the aircraft. The Hudson was relatively smooth, and the aircraft was in good shape other than loss of thrust. It was a rare circumstance.

Feb 7, 2009 - 12:36 pm 31. cedarford:

I am a Gulf War Vet and a volunteer firefighter. I think Mr. Simberg is doing a valuable service in attempting to rein back the existing narrative that “heroism” is a function of job title, degree of victimhood, or simply doing your job well when fate puts you in a place of high stress and high danger.

My criticism is of the media in its ongoing coverage of a man who — when it comes down to it — just did his job. And in their drooling adulation of him, they actually slander the thousands of pilots who, like Sully, do their jobs every day.

So what is a hero? To me, it’s someone who takes personal risks and perhaps even willingly sacrifices himself for others.

Lets be clear that the classic definitions of “hero” have been threefold:
1&2 – The brave that stands out from other braves also risking all in battle Or, to certain individuals that stand out in non-military endeavors by doing again, extraordinary things, that others do not measure up to.
3. Personal heroes – those parents, teachers, workmates, athletes, other role models that do not commend widespread public adulation – but deep admiration from affected individual(s). Who credit them with great feats. “Grandma actually left the Hospice when doctors said she could die any day to somehow fly 2000 miles to see her 3rd Grandchild and died on the planeride home!!” “Caroline Kennedy is my personal hero because she would be a wonderful Senator for her getting to know all the other great celebrities and because her Family suffered so much!”

We have diluted it down by mass media narrative to many thinking “proper behavior” is for mere lowly citizens to genuflect to any such person who by job title might be a hero someday. A throwback to days well before Revolutionary War egalitarianism – Like when medieval peasantry were told by law to adulate priests “who save us all”, any aristocrat trained in arms who “protects us all”, and all other armed agents of the king who “risk themselves for all peasants sake keeping order and fighting contagion and fire and pestilence”.

I call Eisenhower a war hero because he did great feats. Though Ike personally never saw a day of combat.
I call MOH for guys that spur of the moment decide to “take one for the team”, suicidally, flopping ontop a grenade – a bogus medal. But SGT York who just about single-handedly destroyed a regiment and felt fairly safe doing so – as legitimate MOH as there ever was.
BY the “suicidal” standard, Japs should have issued 50,000 MOH equivalents for those involved in Banzai charges, Kamikazes. Each Muslim suicide bomber. And certainly more Soviets going with certainty to die than even the Jap equivalent of “grenade floppers”.

The pilot who ditched into the Hudson perhaps should properly be a hero to fellow pilots for exemplifying good flying. But the rest of us? Well, as much so as as demanding a cod fishermen who takes risks and is celebrated by other fishers as a “great one” should obligate the general public into hero worship.

My cousin, who is a detective, had another good tale…he happens to agree with me on “hero by job title” being bogus. After 9/11 when “our government employee heroes!!” worship was peaking, he said he went to a “Line of Duty Death of a Fallen Cop/Hero” extraviganza funeral. The 40+ cop had gone to a Dunkin Donut to retrieve a half dozen free ones, a cuppa, and a 16-year old cop groupie. After a donut, a cigarette, and a BJ behind a warehouse next to the Dunkins–he was pulling out of that parking lot with his lights off, waving a donut at his young hero worshipper when he was T-boned by a carload of Mexicans who also had their headlights off, but who had the right of way. Also killing 3 of the Mexicans.

The hero ceremony was attended by the Governor, his Congressman, a 12-gun State Police ceremonial squad, about 1100 cops on straight or taxpayer overtime, a Marine ceremonial squad from his years as a MP..State Flags were lowered for a line of duty death of a fallen hero..Dignitary speeches abounded, highlighted by the Special Guests -flying in a 9/11 Hero Cop and a 9/11 Hero Firefighter who was already somewhat loaded from nip bottles offered when he spoke of the deceased great hero-hood and his own, which was unfortunately (he says) being stuck in traffic in Brooklyn when his “fellow heroes fell when the Towers Fell” then his days as a “hero rescuer”.

The Mexicans lawyers uncovered the HS Groupie and other tawdry details later, but even at the funeral, the warehouse parking lot was well-known as where the cop “cooped” or got some nookie..The cousin said for many cops who knew the true story, it was hard not to laugh.

************
Besides, hero worship ultimately isn’t for the hero. It’s for the worshipers.

Exactly. And why some get so huffy when you “slander their heroes” or the ones the mainstream media or politicians say they are “obligated to consider official heroes”.

You see a lot of hate and discontent on Milblogs when discussions turn to the differences between the sustained bravery required in someone willing to “take one for his Team”, to be a Muslim suicide bomber or Kamikaze or American WWII bomber over Germany facing almost certain loss over several missions – and a Medal of Honor winner who reflexively flopped on a grenade and had no real time of sustained bravery or extraordinary actions…

Or whether LT Col Brian Chonish deserved a MOH for single-handedly killing 22 enemy in an Iraqi trench over the Navy SEAL that compromised his unit’s position then “heroically” called in a rescue mission that killed all 16 on the rescue flight…

Differing opinions abound…

******************
And there are discussions about “aristocracy of heroes” like if it is right for a President to only honor MOH winners at endless ceremonies – but ignore DSC, Navy Cross awardees, Silver and Bronze Star Awardees..or those not in combat but who gave the Armed Forces an extraordinary achievement in their duty..Or ignore other high-achievement Americans to only salute “armed employees of the State”.

There was such a flap here at PJM about Obama “dissing” MOH winners from 40 years ago or longer to instead honor “youth” and those serving in present wars..

Feb 7, 2009 - 12:49 pm 32. mk:

Wow, aren’t we a buzzkill? Sully is a hero. Is the Media being a little crazy with the hero worship? Sure. But that’s the way they are.

Sully did something I couldn’t do on the best hour of the best day of my life. And for that I laud him as a hero.

Then again, I think the 9/11 firefighters are heroes and by your premise, I shouldn’t bother because they were just doing their job. Or Military people. Or the Red Cross. Etc. etc. etc.

Feb 7, 2009 - 12:53 pm 33. Gary Rosen:

Simberg has a point. My brother was a pilot for over 30 years first with the Marines and then a major airline and he said essentially the same thing, that he thinks he or any good pilot could have done this. If this sounds arrogant or dismissive, think about it. Chances are the next time you fly Sully will *not* be the pilot. Do you want your pilot saying to himself, “Gosh, Sully was so heroic, I could never have done that” or instead have the confidence that he would do as well if confronted with a similarly dire situation?

However, my brother also said that while he *thinks* he could have done that, Sully actually *did* it. This was far from a routine situation, which is why it got so much media attention. I remember an incident from years ago when a pilot lost an engine – no, it didn’t just stop working but actually *fell off* theplane – and he brought in successfully, I think with no casualties. That did not get as much press, but that was a long time ago. And the fact that this occurred in New York City obviously increased the focus. There were millions, or at least many thousands, of people thinking that they could have been in the flight path and that Sully took the risk of ditching in the water to save them.

Feb 7, 2009 - 3:29 pm 34. Gary Rosen:

One last point – if the media’s worst excess were the fawning over Sullenberger I would have a lot more respect for the MSM than I do now.

Feb 7, 2009 - 3:34 pm 35. Gary Rosen:

Interesting post from C-fudd, dissing 9/11 heroes with his typically sweaty fantasies about “BJ’s” behind a warehouse. This from the same guy who gives BJ’s to Hezbollah baby-killers for their “heart and courage”.

Feb 7, 2009 - 3:38 pm 36. johnc:

Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! The pilot is right, he was doing his job cause he too wants to live!
The word “Hero” is overly used these days.
I grew up being told the only real hero’s had a white stone cross over them
in a graveyard.

Feb 7, 2009 - 4:28 pm 37. Tony R:

Forget Sully and his actions – saving dozens of lives and stuff.

Let us get back to the real 21st century heros – the men and women who courageously give up alcohol or drugs when they run out of money or when everyone they know has managed to ditch their association with them.

Real heros like Cindy Sheehan who rubbished her sons chosen life by protesting to your President in total safety. Real heros like the twit who threw a shoe at your President knowing full well he wouldn’t be skinned alive like he would have been if he had the balls to insult a Third World “leader”.

They are the true heros today. Not losers like Sullenburger who contribute to society and play a role in advancing civilisation.

And what about Britney Spears heroic return to the music scene? Wow…what a courageous hero she is. Sully eat your heart out.

The author is a tit.

Feb 7, 2009 - 5:09 pm 38. Self-hating Boomer:

A lot of people are asking the wrong question. It isn’t “could any properly trained pilot do this”, but “how many times out of 10 would any properly trained pilot ditch safely”. There was a large element of luck involved, if for no other reason than this is the one operation that you can’t train for. You have to have all the stars lined up, and then the force has to be with you, because glancing a wingtip against a wave may be all it takes to start cartwheeling the plane.

Sullenberger did his job flawlessly, the best way he knew how. That’s about all we can conclude for sure.

Feb 7, 2009 - 5:18 pm 39. Rachel Peepers:

Rand,

A couple of hours after writing my comment, I came back to check out what others had said. And have come to the conclusion I’m less than enchanted by it. And agree with most of what’s written in the comments section.

For me, it all comes down to this.

If Sully was, as you write, “simply a pilot doing his job, like the others”, then Jackie Robinson was just a ballplayer who could hit .300.

Your article is so off target that you make Mr. McGoo look like a sharpshooter.

At the same time, I plead guilty to the same missive misfires.

I’ve written some stuff that’s so ill thought out, and banal that, looking back on it, I feel like never touching another keyboard.

In other words, we all have our good and bad days. It’s not you I’m criticizing. Just one lousy article.
Regards, Rachel

Feb 7, 2009 - 5:55 pm 40. Harsh Reality:

#9 said:

“Real heroes never want excessive praise, and always say they just did their jobs.”

That is a popular assumption in this day and age, but it is nonetheless completely mistaken.

While it is most certainly true that many people who have acted heroically have subsequently behaved modestly, that does not mean that the two actions necessarily dovetail into one another. Nor must they for the person to be considered a true hero.

My opinion? Sully has earned the right to cash in any way he sees fit. If he chooses not to, fine. If he chooses to, then nobody – not for a single second – has the right to devalue him or what he’s accomplished.

I don’t like the preachy tone of this article at all. It’s the kind of petty moralizing that finally persuaded me to skip going to church. It’s an advocation of the mediocre and a suppression of the exceptional. What’s next? Is this the next article we’ll receive from Simberg?

So the cockpit tapes of the Mars Landing Craft have come out, and the media renews its swoon over the calm, cool behavior of Captain Chesley B. Sullenberger Jnr as he became the first man to set foot on the red planet.

Let me start by saying that my intent is in no way to criticize the pilot. He obviously did nothing worthy of criticism, and he should indeed be praised — just not to this degree — and I suspect that he is more than a little bemused and even embarrassed over the attention, which would be in keeping with the character that he has demonstrated so far.

How bitter. How small. Puts it in perspective, doesn’t it?

The ancient Greek understood the value of hero-myths, and used them to exhort their people to exceptional actions at Marathon and Salamis. That’s what we do too, unconsciously, when we raise up men or women who have accomplished something wonderful. Should we have refrained from building the Lincoln Memorial because Abe would have blushed?

Simberg, a man whose name is unlikely to be sung by the bards in praise, needs to spend less time whining about how heroes should and shouldn’t be praised, and more time trying to do something to improve his evidently faltering self-esteem.

Feb 7, 2009 - 6:04 pm 41. Rand Simberg:

There’s nothing I enjoy more than being psychoanalyzed on the Internet by people who’ve never even met me.

Feb 7, 2009 - 6:36 pm 42. momof3:

He was doing his job. And he did it very competently. I can’t speak to the pilot professional-and I imagine that they are mostly highly competent people-but competence in anything is so damn rare nowadays we do have to celebrate it.

I don’t know that any other pilot would have pulled it off as well. Plenty of crash landings go very, very awry after all. Even though the odds of crashing at all are very small.

I’d rather little boys and girls be looking up to Sully the hero pilot than Dumb-ass the felon athlete (pick one, any one, your choice!)

Feb 7, 2009 - 7:11 pm 43. John Moore:

I’m a former military aircrewman and a private pilot. I’ve been in my share of emergencies. I have to disagree with the “any pilot could have done it” idea.

There are too many incidences of high time pilots who die dealing with a low altitude emergency, where the evidence is that they panicked. Why else do we keep having planes lose power at low altitudes and then stall, when EVERY pilot is trained from the first day both to avoid stalls, and how to recover from them (not possible at very low altitudes). There are airliner accidents that are clearly failures of the flight deck crew.

I have many times sat around with groups of pilots discussing an accident, watching every pilot explain that “it wouldn’t have happened if I had been flying.” I’m sure the deceased from the accidents had the same opinion.

It is true that serious pilots, especially former military, can be very, very cool in a crisis. But not all will are.

The US needs heroes. The media and pop culture refuse to show us the heroism of our soldiers. It would be politically incorrect to show them as valorous warriors rather than victims. Hollywood is such a mess these days that they can only comic book heroes are acceptable.

So let’s recognize Sully be a hero. Even our media will allow that. And heck, he DID save all those lives; He DID make the right decisions under terrible pressure, while maintaining his cool; He DID twice walk the aisle of a sinking plane; He DID have the cool to remember to take the passenger manifest with him when he was the last person to leave his aircraft.

You can say it’s just his job. If so, he did it superbly – perfectly. He’s a hero, and let’s leave it at that.

Feb 7, 2009 - 7:44 pm 44. Rand Simberg:

I have to disagree with the “any pilot could have done it” idea.

Well, if I had put forth such an idea, I would disagree as well.

Feb 7, 2009 - 8:46 pm 45. Marc Malone:

Lots of good comments here. My response to the article is this:

Heroism is like pornography; you know it when you see it.

#40 Harsh Reality – Humility in heroism is not a “popular assumption” from this age. That was just ignorant. Modesty is something that has been taught for thousands of years in Judeo-Christian beliefs. You assume the blame; the glory goes to God.

It is also a tenet of great leadership. Publicly assume all the blame. Give the credit to your underlings. Don’t beat your own chest. The greatness will be recognized by others without your self-promotion, and you underlings will be devoted to you and give you their very best efforts.

If anything, this society now applauds self-promotion. The Pubs tried to make hay about Obama’s faux-seal and his Greek columns, but the message simply didn’t resonate with the public. They’ve been conditioned to like false heroism. Sullenberger’s quiet heroism is a breath of fresh air. Even the idiot media understood it when they saw it, and it gave them and the public a great feeling.

Btw, I remember a ditching 20+ years ago (’87?) in FL. A commercial aircraft’s landing gear wouldn’t deploy, so the pilot had to pancake land. He landed it so gently that most of the occupants called it the softest landing they’d ever experienced. No injuries whatsoever. The damage to the plane was so minimal, that it was back in service within a month. That pilot was equally humble, I believe.

Feb 7, 2009 - 9:21 pm 46. cedarford:

John Moore – The US needs heroes. The media and pop culture refuse to show us the heroism of our soldiers. It would be politically incorrect to show them as valorous warriors rather than victims.

The media doesn’t refuse to cover military heroism as much as twist it to the new narrative.

(1)Like with other government 1st responders or progressive change agents in a “caring, nurturing, saving” role (the now familiar “universal” hero-hood of ALL teachers, firefighters, nurturing social workers, medical caregivers,etc,) – they seek to say ALL troops are heroes..which by doing so, makes heroism collectivist by job title, rather than the classic definition of individual or group heroes that stand above and distinguish themselves from their cohort by particular feats of bravery of high accomplishment. Heroism by class or job title was a Soviet propaganda favorite.

2. Heroism by victimhood. Contrary to media standards of heroism, it takes no attribute of heroism to get killed or wounded. Nor does magnitude of “suffering” correlate to a similar magnitude if any, of heroism. (Mad Max Cleland lost 3 limbs somehow setting off a grenade in an accident, not in combat.) Nor does risk, in doing an essential job for society correlate to hero-hood, as we do not honor people in indispensible societal positions that take far greater risk than a: Armed agents of the government; or b: nurturing caregivers.

Being a professional truck driver, a farmer, a heavy construction worker, a munipical sanitation wrker, a logger – all have higher risk than being a cop, firefighter, average soldier, or a nurturing caregiver to the homeless, and by far to being a “hero-teacher”..
*******************
Gary Rosen:
Interesting post from C-fudd, dissing 9/11 heroes with his typically sweaty fantasies about “BJ’s” behind a warehouse. This from the same guy who gives BJ’s to Hezbollah baby-killers for their “heart and courage”.

I’m not sure why Rosen is so offended. As the tale goes, the “cooping cop” killed in “line of duty” had just gotten a BJ from a (1)Female and (2) Free of charge.

So clearly no member of the Rosen clan was in anyway involved.

Feb 8, 2009 - 10:24 am 47. Squirmn:

That airline captain is a hero, plain and simple. There are many heroes, many that are never mentioned, acknowledged or noticed. To diminish what he did on that day at that moment, because of media coverage, is mean-spirited and possibly envious. Tell me honestly that he is not at the top of your list to pilot you around the world.

Feb 8, 2009 - 12:53 pm 48. Squirmn:

@ Rand Simberg

I too think that this article has the premise that any pilot could successfully ditch in the waters of the Hudson.

“Nonetheless, Sullenberger was still doing what he was trained to do, and what his employers expected him of him. It would be nice to think that because he was a steely-eyed airplane man, only he could have landed that airplane safely and smoothly in the river. But it’s not true. I’ll bet that every other US Airways pilot thought to himself, “Good job, Sully, you did just what I would do.” And not just the US Airways pilots, but every commercial pilot. And the vast majority of them would be right.”

This paragraph implies that any pilot could DO what Sullenberger DID. Whether or not this was your intent, apparently not from your replies, it nonetheless is the culprit for this confusion.

Feb 8, 2009 - 1:15 pm 49. WR Jonas:

Captain Sullenberger is an exceptional human being. His greatest virtue is his humility. His calm heroism is second.
The press has gone beserk because they have never seen or considered these virtues . Besides , it all happened in New York and what could be better than that?

Feb 8, 2009 - 2:30 pm 50. Rand Simberg:

This paragraph implies that any pilot could DO what Sullenberger DID.

No, it does not. Work on either your logic, or your reading comprehension, or both. (Hint: think about your word “any” in the context of my word “a majority”).

However, yes, I do in fact think that many pilots would have had as good a chance of success as Sully did. And I think that even Sully would admit that it was a fortunate combination of both piloting skill and providence.

Feb 8, 2009 - 3:47 pm 51. david foster:

1)It is not correct that no jet airliner has ever ditched successfully before. There was a Russian plane that ran out of fuel, landed in Lake Lagoda, and was TOWED to shore with its passengers still aboard! I believe there have been a couple of other cases as well.

2)There was certainly an element of luck, but Capt Sullenberger was clearly an exceptional pilot who has thought long and hard about the handling of emergencies.

3)The greatest threat was probably the temptation to stretch the glide. When you see a nice concrete runway ahead of you, it has to be psychologically very difficult to set the plane down in the cold river water.

Feb 8, 2009 - 4:26 pm 52. Marc Malone:

#46 cedarford – Although I have generally stopped responding to, or even reading your posts, I have to respond to this one.

It is true that other fields can be statistically more dangerous than cop, firefighter, or soldier. However, the very nature of the jobs of the latter require that they move TOWARDS the danger when it presents itself. Cops’ wives, and the wives of deployed soldiers in particular live every day with the dread of that ‘knock on the door’. Is today the day when he doesn’t come home?

The voluntary choice to face danger is heroism. You think of heroism as only the extreme version of it, but the simple act of volunteering, of stepping forward to be counted, is also heroism. Self-sacrifice for the general future well-being of the community is also heroism.

Sullenberger is a hero, because he stayed calm and did his duty. Because he stayed calm, so did everyone else. His calmness probably saved some lives or injuries. Further, he made sure he was the last off the sinking vessel, and also thought to bring along the passenger manifest. That he did all this with the attitude of just-another-day-at-the-office was truly extraordinary. Just because he made it look easy, doesn’t mean it was.

Feb 8, 2009 - 4:49 pm 53. Squirmn:

@ Rand Simberg

I appreciate the clarification that two sentences can provide. I obviously was not the only one that perceived that implication from your article and namely that paragraph. To state that I need to “work” on my reading comprehension and logic is ill advised, as your writing was none to clear.

Feb 8, 2009 - 6:37 pm 54. Rand Simberg:

I’m sorry, but I don’t see how anyone could read what I actually wrote, and logically infer that I thought that “any” or “every” pilot could have done what Sully did.

Feb 8, 2009 - 7:19 pm 55. cedarford:

Malone – It is true that other fields can be statistically more dangerous than cop, firefighter, or soldier. However, the very nature of the jobs of the latter require that they move TOWARDS the danger when it presents itself. Cops’ wives, and the wives of deployed soldiers in particular live every day with the dread of that ‘knock on the door’. Is today the day when he doesn’t come home?

Again, you fail to make any distinction. All People in risky jobs move TOWARD danger. It is not like those with riskier jobs are sleepwalking unconscious as they wrestle I-beams 60 stories up, haul trash on a garbage truck that some other guy got mashed to paste against as some driver got too close, or some farmer headed out in a wheat thresher that cost both hands of some HS kid on an adjacent farm.

And coal miners, fishermen, sandhogs, as well as travelling salesmen (riskier than cop or firefighter but not sanitationman) – all have family that worry about a knock on the door.

You are enamored of stupid slogans like “Craven mortals run out of burning buildings. Hero firefighters run in.” “A Marine hero has to be perfect everytime and every way – for the enemy only has to get lucky once..”

As a local volunteer with full turnout gear and a Scott 4.5 on with buddies and radio – going into fire is rather fun stuff, with a slight risk that makes it “real”. Most stuff is automatic from your training.
Marines, cops, counterterror folks are not perfect heroes – right everytime….

And we know from past history since WWI that about 60% of the young male population drafted or volunteeing if asked or forced to, will do a pretty good job as “A Hero Soldier”.

Hero – as Rand Simberg says, is now waaaaay too overused and applied to just everyman schlubs in certain job titles.

Can’t be handing it out like self-esteem trophies calling 80 million Americans great heroes simply for showing up at work for various jobs…or just because they are “nurturing caregivers”, or because they qualify for some disease of the week movie as noble victims.

Feb 8, 2009 - 9:34 pm 56. Alex:

Why is the Main Stream Media (MSM) fawning over him….because they blew the Iraqi war, the 1999 repeal of Glass Steagal that allowed banks to run amok, the NSA spying on americans at will, The 2 trillion+ that Federal Reserve has transferred to Europe from US banking system without legislative approval in 2008, The sub prime mortgage debacle, the Dick Cheney shadow government, and the dozens of other stories that investigative reporting has ignored and overlooked.
Helen Thomas is the last real Reporter in the White House press corps…the rest are sheep and corrupt. There are no investigative reporters left in MSM in New York or Chicago or Washington DC…they are lemmings that sold their souls for routine access to popular media figures and circles of influence.

Capt. Sullenburger is a hero, isnt a hero….is this seriously a subject under debate? He has the class and confidence not to give a ratts butt what the MSM thinks, that speaks volumes and for itself. The MSM has lost their moral compass and Capt. Sullenburger has shown them what America used to be made of. If only there were people like him in journalisma and the WH press corps, amazing what happens when you do your job. We might not be in the mess today if someone had the integrity to stand up and question authority in the past 8-10 years.

Why doesnt someone in the once respected industry of Journalism write about the embezzlement of 2 trillion by the Federal Reserve in 2008, convieniently just before the elections? Relationships between
defense companies and elected officials, Systems like Echalon that routinely spy domestically, or the dozens of other buried stories that would get them in trouble if they actually wrote about matters that affect the world we live in.

Capt Sullenburger is a Hero because he did what so many in the MSM cannot, he defined himself.

Feb 8, 2009 - 10:30 pm 57. JackT:

oh, shut up. Can’t people have a little fun, and recognize someone for doing something great, or miraculous. Jeez, things will settle down and he will go back to life as usual. What the hell’s wrong with you people.

Feb 9, 2009 - 12:14 am 58. Tinfoil Hatter:

OK, first off, there have been a number of successful ditchings in the past, under worst circumstances. So lets not get carried away here.

Second, the Captain’s actions are simple HIGHLY worthy of praise. While there are potentially any number of aviators who could do what he did, there are some that could not. Either way, it really doesn’t matter. Sullenburger and crew, like Al Haynes and his team, the Crews of TWA 800 and 847, the crew of Alaska 261, and many other commercial airline crews, were the people on the scene. Sometimes, it ended successfully. Sometimes, its ended tragically. Sometimes, it split the middle. Either way, these people did a truly outstanding job under difficult circumstances. I’m proud to be associated with them, even just generally.

Feb 9, 2009 - 5:38 am 59. Fred:

What kind of harpies have the right-wing become? “My criticism is of the media in its ongoing coverage of a man who — when it comes down to it — just did his job.”

Everyone who has ever got on a jet – and appreciates that no other American pilot has EVER done what Sully did – can’t offer enough appreciation for a man like that pilot and his crew. The media are just people – like you or me, and in the same state of wonderment. Is Sully a hero? Not to the prik who wrote this article. The rest of us? let’s have a parade!

Feb 9, 2009 - 7:07 am 60. J. PINKERTON SNOOPINGTON:

RACHEL PEEPERS
#24
Your assessment of Simberg’s article is spot on. I’ve been an aviator for over 30 years. Sullenberger’s performance was superb….’nuff said !!

Feb 9, 2009 - 7:16 am 61. comatus:

There’s an old joke that aerospace engineers and pilots don’t always get on that well. Hard to understand, I know.

So let’s all get our priorities straight, and now praise those bold innovators who contrived, for the first time ever, to keep an Airbus’ wings on the fuselage. And this time, it didn’t even fly itself into the ground.

These airplanes are so well-engineered, any washed up fighter jock could land one on water. Congratulations on writing down to your stereotype. Way to represent the old profession, there. Since there are no heroes, pencil-pushing dweebs the world over no longer have to hold their manhood quite as cheap. Simberg’s recovery is complete.

Feb 9, 2009 - 12:44 pm 62. Rand Simberg:

These airplanes are so well-engineered, any washed up fighter jock could land one on water.

I haven’t written anything against Captain Sullenberger, but this vile mischaracterization of what I wrote certainly slanders him.

Feb 9, 2009 - 1:38 pm 63. Marc Malone:

#55 cedarford – Again, you miss it. The guys in other risky jobs are doing those jobs to benefit themselves. Rescue workers do it to benefit others. That’s what heroism is – selflessness. Certainly, they chose these professions, but there is almost always a certain amouont of altruism in their choice. Anyway, it’s hard to pay a man enough to get himself shot at. It requires something greater within himself that drives him forward.

Thing is, cedarford, your Leftist outlook offends me to my core. This devaluing of my culture’s values, trying to change my society into something else with your simply immature thinking, is repellant. The downplaying of heroism, of God, of patriotism, of individualism, in order to drive us towards some great collective, turns my stomach.

I heartily wish you would go peddle your trash on some Leftist site where you would be welcome. Why do you insist on posting here, where you’re not wanted? Why do you insist on continually offending us here? Do you get some thrill; some sense of power? Maybe you just like being contrary or arguing? If so, you need help. It is just not a healthy mind that does that.

Feb 10, 2009 - 3:41 am 64. Rachel Peepers:

Rand,

Your article has clearly augered in. Your trying to
pick up the pieces is laughable.
Rach

Feb 10, 2009 - 2:48 pm 65. Northern Light:

According to Simberg, the pilot was just doing his job and any adulation he gets is an insult to other pilots.

John McCain was just doing his job when his plane crashed too. The fact that he was captured, imprisoned for five years, and tortured is something that is just part of the job. Any adulation Mr. McCain received for doing his job is an insult to all other veterans.

No wonder he lost.

Feb 11, 2009 - 5:42 am 66. John Cooper:

Ahhhh, I see that Sinberg has consumed a full glass of the toxic philosophy of Immanuel Kant. “Nothing a person does in his own self-interest can be good.”

Feb 11, 2009 - 6:05 am 67. Rand Simberg:

According to Simberg, the pilot was just doing his job and any adulation he gets is an insult to other pilots.

Is this inability to comprehend plain English a reflection on the public school system? I’m getting hay fever from all the straw men in this comments section.

Feb 11, 2009 - 12:50 pm 68. Northern Light:

I’m sorry, I thought you said:

“And in their drooling adulation of Sully, they actually slander the thousands of pilots who, like Sully, do their job every day.”

I must have misunderstood.

Perhaps the third paragraph in this article is a matter of writer error.

Feb 15, 2009 - 8:24 am

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