Pajamas Media

48 Comments

1. antonio:

The ultimate in this whole eco-greeny-weeny hypocrisy is watching a Prius (being driven my some smug save-the world liberal), pass you on the highwaay during over 80 mph!.
Excuse me, but why did you buy that vehicle in the firat place ?.

Apr 17, 2009 - 2:43 am 2. Paul -Indiana:

These are not cars that I would buy. I’m glad they waited until I got my new SUV.

Apr 17, 2009 - 5:03 am 3. Paul:

Come on, a little history for poor Detroit.

GM engineers went out on limb and made the Corvair. Light weight, fuel efficient, simple. Nader, the safety Nazi killed it.

Chrysler had the Dodge Omni, a Volkswagen Rabbit rip off, got almost 50 miles to the gallon in 1980. Some model Dodge Dusters got 35 MPG with old steel, simple engines. Plenty of smaller Detroit cars commonly got in the 30’s.

You got the safety Nazi’s that want thousands of pounds put on a car, you got the emission Nazis that want car engines to be weak and underpowered such that a Honda Civic can not get the mileage that a thirty year old Omni did and give us ground water polluting fuel additives, and mileage robbing ethanol, that pollutes farm lands and you got the mileage Nazis pushing little cars

And so it goes, one big government forced circle jerk of mileage, emissions, safety. Each screwing up the other at the expense of companies and consumers.

Apr 17, 2009 - 5:35 am 4. David S:

Driving for efficiency is really not difficult, but where are the “cars that people want to buy?” All I see is Jazz giving a trip report on his tour of Manhattan.

Hyper-milers have been refining the techniques of fuel efficiency for some time, starting with the very basic things you have noted, and rising to fairings and tailpipe modifications, along with computer tweaks and other more involved modifications.

Still, I don’t see much evidence here that this was an “Eco-Friendly Auto Show”…

Peace.

DS

Apr 17, 2009 - 6:37 am 5. jerryofva:

If you want a fuel efficient autombile that is a real car and not some sterile econobox you don’t need any special new technology. You can buy a diesel. My 2005 Jetta TDI averages 37-40 mpg with a 60-70% short trip city mileage profile. If I take a nice long trip I get over 50 mpg with out the need to hypr-mile unless of course I want to get somewhere in a hurry and then I get a mere 45-50 mpg. The new 2009 TDI, while not quite as fuel efficient, is the cleanest car on the road short of a pure electric. So by all means go an buy your overpriced hybrids so I can enjoy lower fuel prices.

Apr 17, 2009 - 7:16 am 6. Bruce:

The fact of the matter is that Detroit was trying to satisfy customer demand, and the writer said it, consumers are fickle. We consumers are the cause of many problems we face today. Why do companies go overseas to manufacture? Simple, we migrate to the cheaper products, even if quality is poorer. So, we acnnot cry if our procts are made overseas. And we cannot cry when for years the auto industry offered us high mileage vehicles, and we refused to buy them. Its really our fault.

Apr 17, 2009 - 7:44 am 7. BP:

I like my big or bigger cars. I carry things in them like people, or products that I buy. If I had one of those tiny acrs like the Prius or anything smaller than a midsize car, I would need to rent something to go shopping. Or we would need two cars to go anywhere to hol the family. yes, some people may be okay with small cars, but I want something safe and big enough to hold something. Besides I drive my cars until they fall apart. Unless Obama stops spending my future away, I won’t have any money to buy anything new anyway, once we get the tax bill for this outrageous spending.

Apr 17, 2009 - 7:51 am 8. Sebastian Shaw:

Any car built & created by the Federal Government is an impossible dream; it will be a nightmare for any foolish enough to buy the lemon off the car lot.

I stick with Honda.

Apr 17, 2009 - 8:24 am 9. Middleman:

And so the circle of calling SUV owners fascists, or acting the tough guy ready to take a sledge hammer to your catalytic converter to make a statement to the eco-crowd continues…

I just want a fuel efficient car that doesn’t look like a futuristic go-kart, or can run on algae.

Apr 17, 2009 - 8:31 am 10. Paul -Indiana:

For those of you who don’t consider the entire food chain, the electric cars need to be charged up. That takes fuel, used somewhere else, and transmission of electricity to where you park your car. Only then can you charge your batteries and feel good about your ‘green’ car. It’s also a fact that everytime you transport electricity you lose a noticible fraction of it as heat [wow, more for the enviros to worry about]. In addition to that, for those cars which are simply more gas efficient, how many years and miles must you drive to gain back $30000 of that $50000 you paid for your ‘fuel-efficient car’ and how much more will you pay for insurance since those toy cars are not as safe as my SUV? You can buy a real car for $20000, fairly easily. You know – the kind of car that people WANT to buy.

Apr 17, 2009 - 9:12 am 11. Fantom:

Very few want an econo-coffin. Most Americans want Suv’s, pickups and sport cars. We also want cheap fuel. And on that latter part there is no reason we cannot have such, except the looney left blocking construction of refinaries, drilling and coal to gas plants.

Apr 17, 2009 - 10:23 am 12. Chaz706:

Paul has a point: now people are finding that these low millage cars are NOT safe in a crash.

Duh. I could’ve told you that.

There have been great advances in cars: except that those advances were mostly thought up of years ago and weren’t implemented because some Nazi killed it.

Apr 17, 2009 - 10:54 am 13. Jim C:

People want to drive SUVs and other big cars. We like luxury and lots of storage space.

The economy and familes not having extra money is what’s hurting the automobile and other industries. Because of the UAW union and higher prices for American cars, people are opting for foriegn (cheaper) cars.

Paul – you are wrong. I’m sure the electic cars of the future will come with solar panels or their own wind turbine…maybe even a sail.

Apr 17, 2009 - 11:51 am 14. Delia:

David S. and Middleman,

I have the perfect vehicle for you!

http://news.cnet.com/gm-segway-partner-on-two-wheel-city-vehicle/

You two would look so cute together snuggled up in that on a snowy day.

Awwwwwwww.

Meanwhile, my Mercury Marauder will run you over [by accident of course]. Ker-Splat! Whoops!

Apr 17, 2009 - 3:25 pm 15. Parabellum:

Jazz, you’ll probably like the Pelosi GTxi SS/Rt Sport Edition from Congressional Motors.

http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2008/11/lemon.html

Me, I like real cars.

Apr 17, 2009 - 3:36 pm 16. Polo:

I think two things have to happen for U.S. automakers to recover. The first is for the Wagner Act to be repealed or at least modified so that union workers can be fired without penalty. Artificially high union wages and benefits put U.S. automakers at a distinct competitive disadvantage in comparison to foreign automakers with plants in the U.S.

The second is for average fuel economy (CAFE) regulations to be abolished. In order to pay for union benefits, U.S. automakers must sell more of their most profitable vehicles, which are large trucks and SUVs. CAFE regulations force them to produce small, unsafe, unprofitable cars that nobody wants.

Note that both of these things constitute government interference in what could otherwise be a free market. To say that “the free market has failed” and point to Detroit as an example is disingenuous at best. To then proceed to introduce further government interference as a solution demonstrates inexcusable ignorance of how markets work.

Apr 17, 2009 - 3:37 pm 17. Buckeye2:

Detroit has been making cars that people want–SUV’s, Pickup Trucks, Large Sedans. As has been said in previous posts, the CAFE standards, legecy costs and goverment regulations have hurt the auto industry in this country to an unbelievable degree. I believe that, except for a very small percentage of enviro-tree huggers, the majority of people in this country would prefer larger, safer automobiles and trucks.

Apr 17, 2009 - 4:08 pm 18. Good Ole Charlie:

Mostly UAW wages…Honda even makes larger cars (have you seen the Civic lately? No longer an econobox at $25-30K off the lot with a normal distribution of bells and whistles).

The foreign car makers with US plants are cheering the UAW on…the excess wage penalty on American cars makes for more profits. They can price their offerings slightly lower and still make a decent profit while the labor costs drive the Americans further into the hole.

Best Course: Bankruptcy, followed by wholesale renegotiation of union contracts into realistic territory. Cut back on francised dealers who can’t generate profitable total sales.

Otherwise, the gradual hemorrhage will continue…

Apr 17, 2009 - 4:21 pm 19. Larry:

It may be true that most Americans want big trucks and cars, but I believe that they were made to want those through advertising and promotion by the auto industry because that is most profitable for them. If people were re-educated in all things eco-friendly, then this problem would go away. After all we are just sheep that follow what we’ve been told through TV, newspapers and other media.

Apr 17, 2009 - 6:13 pm 20. John Moore:

I have my big SUV too, but it’s from Toyota. They don’t have the UAW to deal with, and the Japanese are the best at quality control (ironically using management practices invented by an American who couldn’t get Detroit to use them).

Apr 17, 2009 - 6:29 pm 21. Delia:

19. Larry,

Many people NEED big trucks and cars [big families, small businesses etc.]. My husband wouldn’t be able to run his business without his big truck that he keeps all of his tools and supplies loaded in for the jobs he does.

We use our ‘big car’ for our family needs as well as grocery trips to Costco where we stock up once every other month.

Apr 17, 2009 - 6:35 pm 22. HawkWatcher:

This lifetime Detroiter has been to many auto shows. I have first-hand knowledge of the many workings that have contributed to the decline of Detroits auto industry.

I’ve been employed by auto-related businesses for many years. The author explained the cyclical nature of vehicle sales perfectly. I chose my current employer based on their minimal sales to auto-related vendors, hence I’m still working when unemployment is now over 12% in Michigan.

What we have now is a low cycle in auto sales coupled with unsustainable financial obligations structured and agreed to by unions and management. Coinciding with the credit crunch, auto companies are driven towards bankruptcy.

UAW leader Ron Gettlefinger needs to understand that certain auto contracts need to be radically modified. In order to return to a working business model and continue employing union members, concessions must be made. The federal government will soon determine what these concessions will be unless Ron initiates positive actions to protect union jobs now.

Can you think of any reasons why he does nothing?

The UAW no longer promotes its members welfare in a helpful way. Auto workers should remove themselves from the UAW and seek representation that realistically addresses their desires.

Apr 17, 2009 - 6:43 pm 23. shaui-jan:

i was sitting in a traffic jam on an interstate on the bottom of a over pass,i was last in line.as the u-haul came over the hill doing 70+mph.i saw her in my rearview and braced for impact.i was gripping the steering wheel so hard that the airbag didn’t even contact my face.by some miracle,i walked away.the car was totaled(’99 mustang gt)i will NEVER drive an-eco coffin,i’ll ride the bus,walk,hitchike ,ride my bike and gladly pay four dollars a gallon for my f150.

Apr 17, 2009 - 7:17 pm 24. Howard Mirkin:

The writer of this article doesn’t seem to understand that in a free market, the consumers, fickle or not, determine what can and cannot be sold. You don’t go into a business unless there is a good chance that you can sell your product and make a profit so you can remain in business. If you are able to remain in business it is because you are competitive. If you want the government to determine what you can, just remember the immortal words of Henry Ford, “They can have any color car they want, as long as it’s black”. Ford almost went out of business, and Ford later learned from his government mentality. The free market has brought more prosperity to more people than at any time in history, but it is pathetic how few Americans (and others) understand it.

Apr 17, 2009 - 8:02 pm 25. Joef:

Larry, I know it’s tempting to believe that everyone other than you is a mindless slave to advertising, but really folks gravitate toward quality, gas mileage when gas prices are zooming, size that’s appropriate to their needs, and a few extras for fun. I knew GM was in deep sh*t eight years ago when my dad, a Depression era-and-WWII vet, retired union airplane machinist, loyal Cowboys fan, Baptist, and lifelong GM devotee opted for a Toyota as the last car he owned (except for the old Chevy pickup that kept the new Camry company in his garage). It became a question of getting tired of fixing the Buick, a great car that wouldn’t hold up. How for Pete’s sake could American car manufacturers go thirty years after Japanese quality started competing with them without matching it? It’s a mystery I’ve never found the answer to and don’t expect to, but it’s a damnable shame. Until the UAW and American carmakers really face that question they will continue on the slippery slope to oblivion, and that’s our loss. Meanwhile, all this green car BS is nothing but algorism run amok — the guy above with the VW diesel says all that needs to be said about that. What we better do if we want to save our country is vote the current callow fool and his minions out of office, and soon!

Apr 17, 2009 - 8:40 pm 26. ex-democrat:

a car must be two things: beautiful and fast.

end of story.

Apr 18, 2009 - 12:12 am 27. doug:

if no one wants an econo box, why is toyota the largest car company in the world? If everyone “wants” an SUV, why is GM bankrupt? I just visited Taipei for work and I saw every imaginable make of car on the road, Porsche Cayennes to little Fiat microboxes. However, in that country that worships all things American there was not one US car to be seen. Why, I asked? Quality was the answer over and over. GM and Chrysler are going under because they’ve been run by fools, building oversized junk-o-boxes for twice the price of much higher performance German and Japanese (and Swedish, etc) machines. Jaguar was at least a sexy car until Ford bought it. Now it’s bankrupt too, because Ford turned it into a taurus with a logo. with

Apr 18, 2009 - 2:58 am 28. Bud:

when I watched the first Senate hearing and saw Ron Gettlefinger act dunb when Senator Corker asked him about the “job bank”, the program where the UAW gets paid for doing nothing. I was amazed. Then when Senator Criss Dodd later complimented Ron Gettlefinger for that program IE getting paid for nonprodutivity I knew Dodd was part of the problem and by extention our union hugging government a big part of the problem. unions are great- they just cause companies to eather go bankrupt, move offshore, or(if goverment paid) raise taxes. they basically just cause inequity.

Apr 18, 2009 - 3:33 am 29. GDT:

My H3 burns lots less fuel than algore’s private jet.

It gets about 21 MPG highway and (over the life of the vehicle) is far “greener” than a Prius (when you factor in the making and disposal of the battery). This is all symbolism over substance.

Apr 18, 2009 - 5:03 am 30. Sebastian Shaw:

THe USA automakers must completely wash themselves of the corrupt Unions to become a productive industry once more; it may be a slow agonizing death & rebirth given the Democrats’ privates are owned by the Unions. However, the Unions will cease to exist at some point. The only question is WHEN.

The precision bankruptcy is a sham, a ponzi scheme that benefits the Unions when the Unions are the problem.

Apr 18, 2009 - 6:30 am 31. Ken Duble:

The point of the article is that Detroit made big vehicles because it’s what the public demands. Yet this doesn’t make Detroit a victim. Larry notes correctly that Detroit spent millions both brainwashing the public into thinking big is better and lobbying against fuel economy. The result is folks like Delia, who say we need big vehicles because of big families: This at a time when family size is the smallest it has ever been, and for the first time in history, most households are led by single adults. Nor are trucks safer. The statistics say otherwise.

While Jerryofva notes that diesel saves money on fuel, diesel is only a temporary solution. It, too, comes from oil. Fantom notes that most oil is refined overseas, yet he overlooks the fact that oil in the U.S. is more expensive. Thus, U.S.-refined oil is more expensive. As there are no mega fields left stateside, the domestic rig count goes up and down with price. More domestic drilling won’t mean lower prices. Rather, it is higher prices that make it profitable to produce more oil from smaller, less productive domestic fields.

While electric vehicles merely transfer pollution to the grid, even the existing grid would be less polluting that our current inventory of gasoline-powered cars. In any event, the grid is getting cleaner as renewable sources come on line.

While the way people drive is a problem, it is a problem higher prices will correct. In fact, Americans will demand vehicles that are clean running, efficient and safe, and we can get them. The problem is these vehicles mostly come from Japan, Germany and Sweden. There is a solution that solves all of our problems, from fuel economy to pollution to less money spent on oil imports and a corresponding more money and, thus, jobs at home. Reagan was onto something in demanding his tax reform be revenue neutral. Raising taxes on motor fuel, offset by a corresponding decline in income taxes, solves everything.

Apr 18, 2009 - 7:22 am 32. Northern Light:

#24 Howard Mirkin, Right On! It’s amazing that I’d find an article here that suggests that the problems of General Motors are due to the invisible hand of the marketplace. Adam Smith is rolling in his grave.

Actually, GM’s problems are partially due to the fact that the company was being run with nobody thinking past the potential profits of the next quarter. SUVs made them lots of money and executives became blinded to the possibility that the market could change (I would say that it took two years for the market to change “on a dime”).

GM used to pride itself on the range of its model fleet. If you wanted big and luxurious, GM had a car for you. If you wanted small and economical, there was also a GM car for you. Now it seems that if consumers change their minds about what they want to drive GM loses billions of dollars and blames the free-market for its woes.

Anyone with a memory could tell you that gas guzzlers are not popular if it costs too much to drive them. It happened during the 1970s (actually, the American automakers didn’t get it back then just like they don’t get it today). It’s true that you can’t change over from SUVs to hybrids overnight, but it’s even tougher to do if you have no plan in place for what to do if gas prices spike.

The fact that the big 2 (and Chrysler) have higher wages for executives and workers than the imports (check out the difference in pay between the CEO of Toyota and the CEO of GM) doesn’t affect consumer’s choices. The fact that Detroit-mobiles have a reputation for being pieces of crap that fall apart quickly and have a low resale value has a lot more to do with people buying imports (are these cars still called imports if they’re actually made here?). GM and Ford should have been working harder on the “pieces of crap” problem. Even if it’s not true anymore (and I really don’t know if it is) a bad reputation is a hard thing to shake.

Jazz Shaw seems to have had a nice time. I know that having some nice women give me milage tips would make my day. I wonder if they advised him to check his tire pressure. Obama mentioned that once, but the GOP laughed at the idea.

Finally, to #3 Paul, before “Safety Nazi Nader” killed the Corvair, the Corvair had racked up a pretty impressive body-count itself. The Corvair killed Ernie Kovacs. I still gat mad about it.

Apr 18, 2009 - 7:56 am 33. Delia:

31. Ken Duble,

Ken, you have not met my in-laws, some who have eight, ten and 13 children. They are busy little rabbits!

Apr 18, 2009 - 8:54 am 34. Looney:

On safety: It is true that bigger cars suffer less damage (and thus less passenger injury) in a collision. However, smaller cars have a much better chance of AVOIDING collisions; their lower mass allows them to turn or brake more quickly than a larger vehicle can. Incorporate this distinction in your safety calculations, and it’s probably a wash.

On diesel fuel: Diesel engines are somewhat more efficient than gasoline engines, though that’s really comparing apples to oranges, as diesel fuel contains more energy (and pollution) per gallon than gasoline does. The main advantage to diesel comes in the manufacture of biofuels. Diesel fuel can be produced from just about any organic material. Ethanol, on the other hand, can only be produced from sugars. Thus, ethanol production requires corn or sugarcane as raw materials, directly competing with the food supply. Diesel, on the other hand, can easily be produced from non-food crops, or even from waste products, making it a more sustainable biofuel.

On electric cars: It’s certainly true that the US electric grid needs improvement, and that electric cars could exacerbate this problem. However, electric power production at conventional power plants is more efficient than a typical automobile engine, and thus better for the environment. Moreover, electricity is not necessarily produced from fossil fuels. There are plenty of hydroelectric and nuclear power plants around (though the environmental advantages of these are controversial), and there has been some investment in clearly sustainable power sources: solar, wind, geothermal, tidal, etc.

Apr 18, 2009 - 11:16 am 35. Diana Allen:

My NEWEST vehicle is a 1982 1T Dodge Van, with a slant 6, gets mileage of apx 30-40mpg. It is SEVERELY underpowered for living at almost 8,000′ above sea-level, but will carry 3 adults, a dog, and groceries as well as smaller loads of other materials such as lumber, fencing equipment, feed grains, etc. at 50mph.

My MOST USED vehicle is a 1978 GMC Dually, with a custom built STEEL flat bed, 4spd, and 454, (with “modified” timing and different carburetion). IT gets 20-25 mpg carrying 2 TONS of hay for my livestock, and almost 30mpg empty, at 50-60mph.

I have looked at some newer vehicles and found that:
1. I can NOT afford them, even IF financing was available. (My vehicles are all PAID FOR!!)
2. Nothing CURRENTLY for sale that would do the same jobs gets any better mileage than EITHER of the above vehicles.

Survival:
a. Having been rear-ended in the GMC by a Semi, AND having been able to DRIVE away WITH NO INJURIES OR VISIBLE DAMAGE TO VEHICLE, while the NEW semi, (with a “plastic” front end,) was a total loss and had to be towed.
b. Van was broadsided by NEW jeep in town. Both were drivable, BUT van had 1 medium dent in side, easily repaired; and jeep would need ENTIRE FRONT CLIP at cost of thousands.
c. Decision, give me OLD STEEL over new “plastic”, every time!!!

Apr 18, 2009 - 12:47 pm 36. Nick:

Lets be honest for once
1 most people have small family
2 leave in thouns and do grocery 2- 3 times/week
3 the teenagers drive honda becouse run over 200000M
my has original starter, alternator…. and 220 000M
4 cheap parts easy to find for small colizions…
I know what brend will be my next car

Apr 18, 2009 - 1:11 pm 37. jerryofva:

Doug:

Toyota didn’t become the largest automaker in the world because they build small cars. Toyota has the same product mix as GM. And for your information European cars have inferior reliability to American vehicles.

Ken: There may be no megafields left of domestic oil in liquid form but our oil shale resources are approximately equal to the world’s oil reserves. There is plenty of oil around. In addition one ton of coal can be converted into 1 barrel of middle distilate fuel. The US has enough hydrocarbon resources to get us well into the Star Trek era.

Looney: Your views on diesel automobiles are in error. Yes, diesel fuel contains more energy then gasoline but it takes less energy to produce a distillate. Blutec/bluemotion diesel cars are the cleanest cars on the road and that include hybrids. Diesel also produces about 25% less CO2 then gasoline powered cars. That soot you see coming out of a diesel is bound carbon. The entire diesel fuel cycle is more efficient and now less polluting then gasoline. It takes less energy to produce fuel of higher energy content and the combustion process is more efficient. New diesel technology is also cleaner then a gasoline engine.

Apr 18, 2009 - 7:30 pm 38. JJ:

Every major manufacturer makes pretty decent cars. I work in the automotive industry. GM makes pretty decent cars and trucks. They make what people want. If they didn’t they wouldn’t be as big as Toyota. They have lost market share to a large degree because their cost structure wouldn’t let them make the cheap cars the Koreans can. Durability? No one sees 20 year old Japanese cars on the road. There are millions of 20 year old pickup and cars made by Ford, GM and Chrysler on the road. The imports generally rust out much worse. Toyota has been having a lot of quality issues lately. Sucks to be Number 1 since they will be the target now. Honda Accords weight more than my 1967 GTO does. I drive a CRV. Nice SUV but it weighs as much as my 1987 Chevy pickup. My CRV gets the same mileage as a base Corvette.

By the car that YOU like. Domestic or import, they are all building pretty decent cars and I’m sure you’ll find one that fits your needs.

Stop trying to choose the car that makes your ego inflate because of what you think others think of you. Your Prius is a big a phallic symbol as a Ferrari.

Apr 18, 2009 - 7:56 pm 39. An American called Joe:

Fuel economy is a huge joke. Just watch drivers leave a stop light enroute to the next stop light…it’s like the Indy 500 or a drag race.

I wish the liberal progressives would shut up about what car I should drive. Let the market dictate what gets produced.

There are reasons why it is smart to buy American. Too many people can’t think past their (little) situation to invest in America, for it’s own good. Buy American is more important today than ever before.

My politeness to drivers includes any big 3 auto maker without Obama campaign stickers on their car. Any two way-tie at a 4 way stop goes to the more expensive American made car…my Lincoln waits for NO camry.

Apr 19, 2009 - 6:22 am 40. BC:

One of the most entertaining and savvy shows on TV is the British show “Top Gear” — they test and race (as well as goof around with) the widest range of vehicles imaginable, from Hondas and Volvos to Ferrari’s and “Lambos”. The head presenter, Jeremy Clarkson, is notoriously not fond of green cars, especially the Prius — on one infamous episode, he demonstrated on a race track how a high powered BMW M3 can get better gas mileage than a Prius to make a point out that it’s really all about how you drive.

They sometimes test American cars and generally they have not been very kind. For example they tested a high end version of Ford F-150 one time and introduced it as the best selling vehicle in the world, a “business phenomenon” — but only in the North American market. The question was why nobody else was buying them. At first he teased that a pickup truck would not be practical in an effete English countryside before coming what he felt was the real reason: “It’s rubbish.” He then ranted on about how poorly made and designed it was, and implied that it was the worst vehicle he ever tested. Even in a more recent episode where they took a Dodge Challenger SRT8, a Cadillac CTS-V, and a Corvette ZR1 on a road trip from San Francisco to the Bonneville Salt Flats (where they filmed some of the most engaging car-related sequences ever shown on TV). They all ended up liking their cars a lot overall, but…while it wasn’t emphasized, they were not too thrilled with, again, the build quality, and these were top line, expensive American vehicles, especially the Corvette and the Cadillac.

When I’m in Europe, I see a wide, wide variety of sensible, well thought out cars for people want their cars to be practical and fun. Coming home I see a lot, LOT less variety and many if not most of those are impractical, silly vehicles bought by people not too up to speed on difficult concepts like “handling” and who instead seem a bit overly concerned about winning head collisions with smaller vehicles (and judging from what I see on highways, if they are to worry about stuff like that, they may well want focus more on which vehicles are the most comfortable when rolled over on the side of the road.)

Apr 19, 2009 - 6:35 am 41. Evan:

Interesting, I see all this greenie stuff, gotta save this, to much money to the arabs for oil, yada, yada, yada.

Why not allow Americans to drill in the USofA and this will pretty much reduce imports. After all, china is drill 50 miles off of Key West, FL and pumping oil that they will be happy to sell us, while we are not allowed to drill there.

As to all this green house gas business, what are they smoking, the ones that put out this propaganda and those that buy into it. CO2 is a gas that plants need to live, they inturn produce oxygen which we need to live. Ahh, smart humans, lets eliminate CO2.

By the time obama gets done taxing and spending none of this will matter.

Apr 19, 2009 - 10:06 am 42. typos_R_us:

Manhatten? CARS? Thanks. I needed a good laugh this morning. Why don’t you try west Texas, where the closest Quick Stop is 40 miles away?

Apr 19, 2009 - 10:26 am 43. jerryofva:

BC:

As much as I enjoy watching Top Gear I find that the show excudes a kind of European snoppery that is undeserved. Any comments that the Brits might have about Amnerican cars should tempered by the fact that they destroyed their automobile industry 40 years ago. It wasn ‘t just the government takeover that dit it. The Brits built lousy cars for decades before that.

Some of their test are pretty stupid. This Prius/BMW challenge is nonsense. The Prius was designed pretty much for urban driving. If you drive one like Al Gore’s druggie son of course you are going to get crappy gas mileage. So what?

A British gentleman farmer may find the F-150 unappealing and “piece of crap” (consider the source) but the Wyoming rancher finds a F-150, the RAM and Silverardo meets his needs for 20 year before he has to get another one.

Apr 19, 2009 - 11:14 am 44. Bob G.:

GOD BLESS YOU EVAN,
You hit the nail on the head, these greenie freaks don’t have a brain in their head,
global warming my ass, WAKE UP YOU MORONS…

Apr 19, 2009 - 1:14 pm 45. BC:

To jerryofva: 40 years ago was 40 years ago — that has little to do with the here and now, and actually Top Gear looked into those British car industry days and did not have nice words at all to say about either the quality of the cars then or the unions that use to strike seemingly every other weekend. “Snoppery” aside, the Top Gear guys know and love cars, and are quick to praise or condemn, and generally give very specific reasons why. That Prius vs. BMW M3 test was extreme, but did serve to show that just going out and buying a hybrid may not save you much gas money if you don’t change driving habits accordingly for optimal use.

As far as the F-150 goes, good for the Wyoming rancher it it lasts that long, but if Ford and the other American car companies want to remain major players in the auto world, they should be able to compete at the global level, meaning that F-150’s should be bumping heads with Toyota pick-up trucks in Asia, Europe and so on.

Apr 19, 2009 - 3:01 pm 46. jerryofva:

BC:

I love these automobile threads because I get to laugh at all the myths that get bandied about.

Both GM and Ford are very competitive outside of the United States. Until the global recession profits from foreign markets are what kept GM afloat. Both these companies would have been better off going out of business in the United States and re-incorporating in the Netherlands. Vehicles like the F-150 are for the North American market. They are not ROW vehicles where there is little demand for a big pickup truck for anything other then mounting a heavy machine gun on. The overseas pickup truck market is for compact and midsize trucks, not for heavy duty trucks that work on 1000+ acre farms and ranches.

American vehicles are quite durable and are more reliable then anything produced in Europe. Beyond Honda, Subaru and some Toyotas Japanese cars are no better then ours.

Apr 19, 2009 - 4:30 pm 47. Eric:

Slightly O/T

With the EPA’s ruling last week regarding CO2, the odds we will get an economy killing Cap & Trade tax shoved down our throats are significantly higher. How are we to fight back against this menace? One idea I had and shared with my GOP Congressman, John Boozman (Re-AR), was an amendment attached to the Waxman/Markey bill, if that’s the carbon tax vehicle of choice, requiring all businesses to add a separate line item on any bill or receipt that explicitly lists the amount of tax imposed from cap & trade. Cap & Trade is not much more than a European style VAT tax applied at every point of production and transportation and therefore should be transparent in prices. Since the Democrats are who they are they will of course oppose this idea because it exposes them, which naturally makes this a good idea. Congress should not be allowed to hide behind the companies that are forced to collect this tax on Congress’ behalf and then jump on the anti-business bandwagon when people take their anger out on their utilities, Big Oil, and everyone else with whom they do business. If this is the path we are being forced to take, let’s at least demand we know who’s doing the driving.

Apr 20, 2009 - 8:44 pm 48. Greg:

For the LAST TIME.

Small cars are DANGEROUS. We do not like tiny econo boxes. We like big comfortable vehicles.

Make those, and we will buy. Make tiny status symbol “Look at me I am saving the planet” deathboxes and we will NOT BUY THEM.

Apr 21, 2009 - 9:38 am

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