Pajamas Media

68 Comments

1. raphael a:

Ms. Gould seems to feel that since she does not possess a conspiratorial view of Obama as a secret Muslim bent on destroying the West, she therefore subscribes to the reasonable, fair-minded view.
Maybe some of us don’t want to bank Israel’s security on the concept of “time will tell.”
Democrats like Clinton, Kerry and now Obama have been known to switch positions and waiver on many issues.
The fact that some people overdo their criticism of the president on Israel and other policy disputes has nothing to do with whether Israel can count on the Obama administration’s support when the moment finally comes and Ahmedinijad has acquired the bomb. Military action would cause quite the upheaval, which is why even Bush leaned on Israel not to act as of yet.
I doubt the Israeli pilots who will risk their lives and their freedom take solace in Ms. Gould’s tears over what Obama has done for her undying devotion to civil rights. I suspect they might have a bit more confidence if they had a Republican administration with the likes of John Bolton in their corner.
But the public rationalizations of the likes of Alan Dershowitz and Carol Gould are always an interesting read.

Sep 2, 2009 - 1:16 am 2. marty:

Supporting Obama because he is Black is as stupid as supporting someone because they are white, female or of a particular religion.
Ms Philips has exposed Mr Deshowitz’s arrogance and contraditions. Right on to her.

Sep 2, 2009 - 3:58 am 3. Stephen Rittenberg:

Barack Obama completely endorsed the Muslim fantasy that Israel was a product of the Holocaust and that it was a usurper of Arab lands. Nowhere in his Cairo speech did he acknowledge that Jews were living continuously in Palestine since before Islam existed. Now a Judenfrei state is to be created and Jews expelled from their homes yet again. Obama feeds the Arab sense of grievance and this endangers Jews all over the world–including Gould and Dershowitz.

Sep 2, 2009 - 4:11 am 4. Steveoh:

Has either the PA or Hamas recognized the right of a Jewish State inside the pre-1967 borders? I have to agree with Melanie on this one. American jewry has gone blind. The idea that the Pali’s are even considering a true two state solution is absurd. Dershowitz makes a great “case for Israel” in his writing, but I’m surprised at how he and other liberal Dems find a way to rationalize that which can not be. Judea and Samaria were and always will be a part of Israel. Just as Palestinian Arabs will never recognize Israel as a Jewish State.

Sep 2, 2009 - 5:12 am 5. Pragmatist:

Sorry Carol but you and Dershowitz are dead wrong on this issue. The Obamanation is anything but neutral about Israel he was born brought up and educated as a MUSLIM and whats more he even tells a story in one of his books about being told off during Koranic Studies which confirms he was a practicing Mohammedan he even took ‘mengagi’ (if you dont know what that means look it up) which ONLY devout not run of the mill Mohammedans take. The fact that Barrack, you can call me HUSSEIN now I won, Obama says he has always been a Christian just confirms him to be what we all know he is a blatant LIAR.

Sep 2, 2009 - 5:33 am 6. Pragmatist:

Carol can we please have your views on the constant Mohammedan claims for land from Israel when they already have over 80% of what was the Mandate of Palestine and two Mohammedan ARAB States already Syria and Jordan. Why do they need and indeed deserve ANOTHER State and why should Israel who should have got 50% of the Mandate but only has less than 20% be the ones to give up the land to make it?

Sep 2, 2009 - 5:38 am 7. Terry Gain:

Although there is not yet conclusive proof that Obama is a Muslim there is strong evidence that he is pro Muslim and anti- Israel. Mary Robinson and the Cairo speech are but two examples of many.

Sep 2, 2009 - 5:51 am 8. Raymond in DC:

I followed the entire Phillips-Dershowitz debate. I’d previously read much written by the two, but to me Phillips made the better case.

I don’t buy the “Obama is a secret Muslim” theory (though under Islamic law he is deemed an “apostate”), but it’s clear his sympathies lie with the Muslims, as his own earlier writings suggest. His Cairo speech, though it contained important notes about holocaust denial and setting aside hatred of Jews, was overall consistent with the Muslim and Arab narrative he absorbed from the likes of Abulima and Khalidi. Israel is the result of Jewish suffering leading up to the holocaust, he argued, rather than a historic longing for their homeland; Palestinian statelessness parallels the Jewish experience of the holocaust, etc. The guy clearly doesn’t get it. Israeli Jews do, which is why Obama is deemed “pro-Israel” by only 4-6% of them, while more than half believe he is “pro-Palestinian”. They experience the pressure to sacrifice their own historic and legal rights, to take security risks, while the Palestinians are getting a pass.

As much as I respect how much Dershowitz has done in defending Israel, he *does* remain a liberal who will not challenge his liberal president even when his policies put Israel at risk. He can’t square the circle, so in the end, he does what liberals do: he resorts to calling his critics names.

Sep 2, 2009 - 5:59 am 9. Lawrence:

All Gould proves with her fact-free emotional defence of Dershowitz and Obama, is that the denial and wishful thinking of American Jewry runs deep….scary.

Gould doesn’t refute Phillip’s common-sense point that the Israeli withdrawal from the West Bank will see an Islamic-fascist terrorist sponsoring state on tiny Israel’s eastern border and on Jerusalem’s doorstop and Tel Aviv’s too for that matter. Even if Hamas do not take over the area as they are likely to do given what happened in Gaza and their popular support among West Bank Palestinians; Fatah themselves are a radical Muslim group that continues to call for Israel’s destruction on its constitution, demonises and vilifies Jews through its mosques, media and schools (that’s Fatah, not even Hamas) and continues to endorse suicide terrorism and rocket attacks through its own armed wing the Al-Aqusa Martyr’s Brigade. At their recent Bethlehem conference Fatah continued to checklist yes to all the above. Their president Mahmoud Abbas has endorsed the most base Holocaust Revisionism, probably part financed the Olympic Munich massacre, and himself endorses suicide bombers, telling us that “Allah loves the martyr” and calls Hamas “brothers in arms”.

Gould doesn’t bother acknowledging any of the above facts about Fatah and Abbas. Least of all does she acknowledge the disastrous consequences of the Gaza disengagement – thousands of rockets into Western Israel esp Sderot and its obvious implications to what Israeli disengagement from the West Bank would mean IN LIGHT OF THIS – this simply doesn’t register with Gould at all. The 2006 election results from the Palestinian territories including East Jerusalem – reminder: a sweeping landslide for Hamas. This likewise doesn’t mean anything to Gould since she can’t be bothered to mention it. Well it doesn’t help her case does it now? Any more than Gould acknowledges that Fatah, the ruling Palestinian political authority in the WB is a fascist party that continues to call for Israel’s destruction. Gee I guess it just slipped her mind to point this out, or maybe she thinks it an irrelevance.

Whilst blabbering on about a “two-state solution” like every other thoughtless Lefty she pretends to be so different from, Gould reveals she has no comprehension of the reality that is the Middle-East Arab Muslim-Israel conflict. She simply does not posit the question, two-state “solution” to what? What is the problem that it is the “solution” to?

The problem is obviously war and terrorism, intifada – jihad in other words, jihad by any means possible. So how is the two-state solution a solution to Jihad, how is the two-state solution a solution to radical Islam in other words?

When one realises that the two-state “solution” rests not even on false assumptions, worse than that, it rests on nothing but mindless and sinister sloganeering and denial of the elephant in the room that is radical Islam. Of course Gould doesn’t get it, because if you ask her how is the two-state solution a solution to fanatical Islam and the Jihad it breeds, you cannot get an answer that would make any sense.

Is the two-state solution a solution to radical Islam in France, in North America, in the UK, in Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Egypt, Algeria etc etc? Uh no, but that’s how mindless the two-state solution mantra for the Middle-East is, repeated mindlessly and robotically like the ‘Hare Hare Hare Rama’ of Krishan devottees, but without the beautiful sing-song melody of the latter.

Gould could never answer the question: why when the West Bank was a part of Jordan, there was no peace, none, there was jihad and terror directed at Israel from its Arab Muslim neighbours. There was also no talk of a Palestinian state distinct from Jordan pre-1967. So why now talk of a distinct Palestinian state distinct from Jordan and Israel the last few decades, and why would there be peace when there was only hostility and enmity directed at Israel from that quarter (Jordan inclusive of West Bank “Palestinians”) pre-1967?

Of course Gould doesn’t even fathom these obvious points, she is too busy shedding tears at hearing Obama speak. An irony lost on her is she sounds EXACTLY like the Leftwing PC noodniks who all despise Israel so much, in this regard; the Jew-hating groupthink Leftists Gould has heavily criticised before at PM. They, like her, also shed tears when hearing the One speak his laughably shallow and empty hope ‘n change crap. Oh yes and blabbering on about the ridiculous Obama Derangement Syndrome of admittedly many on the political Right, as Gould does, is simply a straw-man.

Gould just scores an own goal with her article, she simply proves Phillips’s point – that many American Jews simply do not get it, they are simply pathetic. Gould included.

Sep 2, 2009 - 6:18 am 10. Thomas_L......:

Who am I going to believe? You? Obama? Dershowitz? Or my own lying eyes? I would love for Palistinians to have their own state and live in peace with their neighbors. It’s obvious to all but the terminally liberal that that is not what the Palistinians want, however. As for Iran? Don’t even get me started with Obama’s Chamberlainesque response to that situation.

Sep 2, 2009 - 6:34 am 11. Joe:

This woman is just another liberal Jew who is moved to tears because of Obama’s glib words. What is the matter with people? Droning on about civil rights, what civil rights will Israelis have if they are dead?

Sep 2, 2009 - 6:36 am 12. Pastaneta:

All Gould does is declare why she is for Obama, because of the 60s Civil Rights movement.

She doesn’t acknowledge how this same movement has become antisemitic (with the new version being anti-zionism). She souds exactly like the American Jews pre-WWII, who because of their love for FDR ignored the Holocaust.

The fract her parents were useful idiots and she is, doesn’t detract from the fact that Obama is a Manchurian candidate. The sooner he fails, the better for all, even the Gould of the world!

Sep 2, 2009 - 6:49 am 13. Trainwreck:

So a story about former klansmen “tirelessly distributing buttons” moved you to tears? Does this do anything for you:
at a recent town hall meeting, a black man (who should be a liberal, as per the elite’s world view) was tirelessly distributing “Don’t Tread on Me” flags and was set upon by Obama’s union goons and Acorn thugs, and beaten to a pulp. Now if this was a black man distributing Unity flags at an anti-Bush rally, he would be in the news for months. Instead, you can hear the crickets chirping at the Obama camp. THAT moves me to tears. This president is giving us a Maoist, neo-Marxist thugocracy full of concessions and apologies to those who want to do us harm. While Obama may give you tingles up your leg, he gives me chills down my spine.

The article states, “…Barack Obama symbolizes a dream fulfilled to a generation of Jewish Americans who were at the forefront of black liberation.”
Speak for yourself and your fellow traveller Jews whose minds are fogged by a happy, hippy-dippy PC MC socialist utopia. Leave the Jews who can see that this emporor has no clothes out of it. If Obama were a white guy named Barry Obastraw with no record to speak of, and who wanted to impose government control of every aspect of American life, and get us 9 trillion dollars in debt, he would have been laughed out of the POTUS race in 2007.

“In fact, if he has managed to get Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to agree to facilitate Palestinian immigration to the U.S., is this not a coup that establishes that the PA has finally rejected the “right of return” to Israel?”
Uh, nope. Do you really think they have given this up, and doesn’t it disturb you that terrorism supporters are being brought to the US? THe ones who handed out candy and danced in the streets on 9/11.

I suggest you read “Civilization and Its Enemies”. One does not give a ruthless teenage gang a town of their own to control and hope that it satiates their violent tendencies towards their neighbors. You saw what happened in Gaza. Any logical observer would see that the 2-state solution is useless if not dangerous, and will eventually lead to a 1-state solution with the Middle East Judenrein.

Sometimes the Jewish elites are so blinded by PC and liberalism that they fail to see how the road on which they are travelling is leading to the doom of ordinary Jews in America and Israel. I guess we can all be kvelling on our way to the ovens while such people as Dershowitz who would sell us out for their utopia are considered the voice of the Jewish people.

Sep 2, 2009 - 7:01 am 14. Ruvy:

The rage I have been encountering in recent months from people who believe Obama and his team intend to “put Israel in its place” is formidable and can be quite scary. (The posters proliferating across Israel depicting the president as a Jew-hating Nazi in a keffiyah remind me of similar posters before the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin.)

Ms. Gould,

The reason I supported Barak Hussein Obama for president of your country is very simple. He has done exactly what I thought he would do – finally convince the average Israeli that the government of the United States is anti-Israel and suffused with Jew-hatred. We know and understand what you refuse to see.

Dershowitz, who whines like a little baby over imagined insults (see his book the disappearing American Jew and his chapter on aliyah there), and cannot accept the hard fact that it is time for Jews to leave exile and come home.

The blunt truth is that Jews overseas are living in a world very similar to the the world where Hitler arose and murdered off one third of us. Jews then, when warned, did not want to know, and Jews now, when warned, do not want to know.

You will not find Jerusalem in New York, Ms. Gould. You will be destroyed in exile, spriritually, if not bodily (the kinder and gentler holocaust of assimilation and intermarriage – when was the last baptism you went to in your family? – when was the last Christmas party?)

We in Israel, especially those of us who live in “the settlements” that traitors like Netanyahu and Barak are going about destroying, understand these facts very well. The other fact we understand very well is that your best refuge from the government sponsored hatred that will engulf you in America in not too long is this; your best shelter is here – in Israel, particularly in Judea and Samaria.

Sep 2, 2009 - 7:04 am 15. Good:

What I see here is the difference between liberal and conservative thinking. While conservatives generally rely on facts and history in building up their ideas on the situation in the ME, the liberals are coming from an “ideological/intellectual”, university-like idea of: let’s do an experiment in human behavior, let’s give the Arabs what they want and see if it will stop their hatred and terrorism. The liberals are willing to let Israel sacrifice its security and probably many Jewish lives for the sake of their experiment.
It is surprising and disappointing to see Mr Dershowitz’s (who I consider to be a defender of Israel) failure to recognize that Israel is too vulnerable for such an experiment and that she has no real partner for peace.

Sep 2, 2009 - 8:04 am 16. Calvin Ball:

WTF?

Sep 2, 2009 - 8:17 am 17. bibio44:

Those who think the threat to Israel comes only from the left might be interested in the latest anti-Israel screed from Paul Craig Roberts, the “father of Reaganomics” (you could look it up!):

http://www.counterpunch.com/roberts09012009.html

Sep 2, 2009 - 8:44 am 18. Tina Trent:

I do not see what the author’s personal feelings about the Civil Rights movement have to do with the subject of Obama’s action on Israel. Moved to tears, etc. is not an argument — it is merely an act, startlingly, of elevating her feelings over facts, as if her identity and existence matter more than what is being debated.

Worse, in order to elevate the importance of those feelings, she insinuates two Americas: “klansmen” or “electing Obama.” So she crafts a false narrative of overcoming a false distinction through claims of a special relationship that, by default, paints those who are not her in gratuitously ugly tones. Disturbing stuff.

Isn’t it better to take Obama at his word, thus treating him like the intelligent adult he is, rather than sticking him up in the corner (a play’s introduction!?) as a symbol of one’s own self-importance? That is actual respect, not melodramatic claptrap arising from a campaign speech by a politician, of all things, not to mention “the one” who already ignores gender apartheid when it suits.

Be careful what you fall for in the midst of swooning.

Sep 2, 2009 - 9:36 am 19. Thomas:

@17. bibio44:

Paul Craig Roberts and his followers are the epitome of the Molotov-Ribbentrop intellectual foundation;- his writing is always AGAINST and never for something.
Both the left and right want to destroy the existing world and replace it with the new “Übermensch” or “New Soviet man” (Russian: новый советский человек).

We should give credit to those who regard Communism and Fascism as the two side of the same coin, by corollary P.C.R. feels at home at both extremist club and both welcome him.

Sep 2, 2009 - 9:41 am 20. Thomas:

The writer of this article, Ms. Gould belongs to the Marxist (Liberal) Jews, Axelrod, Soros, Jstreet, Dead Fish, Boxer, Shumer, Orszag etc. the tawdry coterie of Sotero-Obama.

Our Islamist resident poster Moho would highly applaud this lady so would do Huffington post and DailyKos.

This forum is not the right outlet to shill and grovel for the “Joker” it’s a mystery that she did not realized yet.

Sep 2, 2009 - 9:58 am 21. Ruvy:

новый советский человек

Cool! I have to see if the comment thread media supports Hebrew!

ברכות מהשומרון
רובי

Blessings from Samaria,
Ruvy

Sep 2, 2009 - 10:02 am 22. Ruvy:

יהודיים לא צריכים להתווכח בגלות
הם יכולים לעלות לארץ להתווכח מספיק פה

Jews don’t have to have arguments in Exile.
They can come home to Israel and argue enough here!

Sep 2, 2009 - 10:09 am 23. Dave M.:

Ms. Gould, I would be interested in an article where you clearly state what you think “Obama’s core beliefs” are and how they “match and reflect those of the very best in American aspirations.” Additionally, I would like you to back your statements with what Obama has done, throughout his entire adult life (hint, Ayers, Wright, ACORN, etc.) not with the words of some pretty speech that brought you to tears. Additionally, I’d like to know whether your parents were communists. While it is laudable that they worked for civil rights, unless they were communists, I am not so sure they would be “kvelling” over the election of one, even if he is black.

As Tina Trent said in post #18, stop elevating your feelings over facts. Just because we have overcome much of our ancestors’ racism does not mean that the “core beliefs” of this president, just because he is a “symbol” of progress, are good for this country.

Speaking for myself, as an American, the only aspiration that reflects my own is the fact that he married his wife before getting her pregnant and has not abandoned her. Other than that, though very important, none of his other “core beliefs” reflect mine.

Sep 2, 2009 - 10:32 am 24. Lucy:

I’m with Melanie on this one. Anything further I could offer would be lashon hara and, boy, it would nearly be worth it.

Sep 2, 2009 - 10:33 am 25. Marie Claude:

# 20 http://www.unlivredusouvenir.fr/pogroms.html

pas de quoi donner des leçons

Sep 2, 2009 - 10:36 am 26. ER:

Gould and her ilk have trouble abandoning their religion. Mindless, left liberalism is not a set of political beliefs to be tested empirically in the real world. Both Dershowitz and Gould, well-meaning Jewish liberals, must defend their secular faith to the bitter end. If only they kept their religion to Judaism and looked at the real world with observing open eyes, they would not be taking such contradictory views: for Israel AND for Obama. You can’t be for both of these at the same time without engaging in blatant cognitive dissonance.

Sep 2, 2009 - 11:00 am 27. Avitar:

Poor Alan Deshowitz has stumbled into the central chasm of Liberal life. There are certian people whose continued existance liberals reject. I am sure that there were many card carring labor Union socialists in Germany who were happy to support Hitler until he anounced that he wanted them dead. Mr. Dershowitz contiued breath now deepends on strident, right-wing ideologues to stand up to Barack Obama’s policies.

Sep 2, 2009 - 11:09 am 28. Ruvy:

I would love for Palestinians to have their own state and live in peace with their neighbors. It’s obvious to all but the terminally liberal that that is not what the Palestinians want, however.

I have a story to tell you Thomas L.

I’m a uniformed police volunteer, and on the first two days of the school year, we (and regular policemen) go to various schools to check them to make sure there have been no “suspicious packages” (bombs) placed there, and to make sure that the first two days of school start sort of right. Yesterday, when I arrived at the school I was supposed to check, I saw two Arabs working there, doing repairs of some sort (the yard they were working in was a total mess – my only interest was that they were not terrorists). Arabs do a lot of construction work in Jerusalem – they come cheaper than Jews.

They were workers, not terrorists.

Later, another fellow showed up – we’ll call him Mahmoud – and asked for permission to enter the school grounds to retrieve a key he had left to do his work. I accompanied him while he retrieved the key and he went off to work.

Today, I told the school guard I would check the construction/repair site for Arab workers, so that he would know who was there, and I found Mahmoud, working alone.

We got to talking.

He said “officer, yesterday, at the other school where I work (he’s hired by a contractor and sent to two schools to do construction/repair work) a bunch of Jewish students attacked me, saying it was wrong that I should be working.”

I asked him if the students were “religious” something that could have meant a number of things, but a descriptor nonetheless. In this neighborhood, it probably meant Haredí, the black gabardined kids with the long sidelocks.

After the beating, he approached a cop and told him what had happened. The cop told him to dial the Israeli equivalent of 911, and he would be there right away.

We had a long discussion about this. I pointed out that the students did not see Mahmoud, the guy working, but Arab terrorists who had killed so many. They were filled with hate for the terrorists. Then I pointed out that Arab kids who attacked Jews were also subjects of propaganda – but to drive the point home, I took off my hat so he could see the kippá on my head, and told him about (secular Jewish) Peace Now activists who sneered at people like me – that all they saw were “evil settlers” – I could see understanding dawning in his eyes. After all, it was an “evil settler”, a religious Jew, (not to mention a uniformed cop), people who supposedly all hate Arabs, telling him he was in the right, and that the Jewish kids attacking him were in the wrong.

The Arabs in the Land of Israel – don’t call them Palestinians, there is no such thing – mostly want peace, they want to make a living, they want the same things that we want, for the most part. The terrorists that Israelis put over them (like el-FataH) or that they nurtured (like Hamas), want terror and want to kill Jews here. And there is not a great deal that Arabs who really do want to live in peace can do. they are not the ones with the Kalashnikovs – the terrorists are.

There are some elements of Arab culture that stink, like honor killings, but these are basically cultural issues, not issues of war and peace.

In other words, Thomas L. do not get all bound up with the propaganda of one side or another in this conflict, and certainly do not allow yourself to be blinded into thinking that “liberals” are all evil. In this part of the world, issues of “liberal versus conservative” run along different lines entirely and the mere fact that American “liberals” allow themselves to be swayed by Arab hate propaganda does not mean that they are swayed because they are “liberals”. They are swayed because they haven’t gone to funerals of friends and relatives killed by the results of the hate propaganda – terror.

Mind you – I’m against an Arab state in the Land of Israel, not in favor of one Arabs have enough countries as it is.

Sep 2, 2009 - 11:19 am 29. Zoltan Newberry:

Gould is intelligent and her heart is in the right place.
She sees 0bama as the culmination and fulfillment of her parents’ Civil Rights struggle.

I think she is extremely naive, and, if she is older than 40, like Dershowitz, I wonder if she is being honest when she says time will tell.

She’ll never have a clue if she associates civil rights exclusively with left wing politics. What do redistribution, growth destroying taxes and corrupt big government programs have to do with civil rights? What about Clarence Thomas and Condy Rice? What about Colin Powell and dozens of other black army generals?

Is Gould so busy arguing with nut case conservatives like Phillips that she has never found time to read outstanding conservative writers such as Thomas Sowell?

Sep 2, 2009 - 11:39 am 30. bibio44:

19. Thomas: @17. bibio44: “Paul Craig Roberts and his followers are the epitome of the Molotov-Ribbentrop intellectual foundation;- his writing is always AGAINST and never for something.”

I dunno…. As far as economics go, Roberts still adheres to his Reaganite principles. In fact, most of his writings on the economy would be a perfect fit for Pajamas Media.

Sep 2, 2009 - 12:00 pm 31. Toronto:

#14 Ruvy. Let me correct you please. The American government under CERTAIN presidents may have been anti-Israel, but in general, America has proven overwhelmingly it’s loyalty to the Jewish State time and time again. Certainly under Carter, Bush I, Clinton and now the worst of them all, Obama, her antipathy towards Israel was undoubtable. The American government, and a vast majority of her people, support Israel and respect her as their only democratic ally in the Middle East. On a separate note, perhaps if Israelis behaved in a more welcoming and civilized manner towards immigrants, more Jews would be inclined to move there and indeed REMAIN there. I know I certainly would have never left had the nature of the population been less hostile.

Sep 2, 2009 - 12:49 pm 32. sharonsj:

This liberal American Jew voted for Obama. The thought of continuing anything like a third Bush regime would have pushed me to slit my wrists. I do not hate Obama but I am disappointed in him. It doesn’t take a genius to realize that a two-state solution will not work. The Palestinians have swallowed enough propaganda to demand that all Jews pack up and leave anyway. Nor is the Arab proposal of a one-state solution going to work because they mean a state run by Muslims where Jews are an oppressed minority. The only solution is to give Gaza back to Egypt or wall it off completely, and to continue settling in the West Bank and then annex it.

Sep 2, 2009 - 1:46 pm 33. Jack in Silver Spring:

1: Ms. Gould does not realize something that is now dawning on many Americans: Mr. Obama is a con artist. (Of course the MSM for the most part comprises nothing but con artists who pretended that Obama was not what he seemed to be.)

2: bibo44 @ 17: There are some right-wingers who are anti-Israel, and indeed, one in particular (Pat Buchanan) who appears to be anti-semitic. Similarly, there may be some remaining left-wingers who are still pro-Israel. Nonetheless, the majority of those on the right are pro-Israel while a majority of those on the left are anti-Israel. Pointing to individual cranks like Paul Craig Roberts or Pat Buchanan should not blind us to the fact that the right is pro-Israel.

3: Ruvy @ 28: Gut ge’zukht regarding the fictious nationality termed, Palestinian. Those who call themselves that are just Arabs who reside in the Land of Israel, as you correctly point out.

Sep 2, 2009 - 2:37 pm 34. Calvin Ball:

Melanie Phillips, as brilliant as she is, does not understand that the ascension of Barack Obama symbolizes a dream fulfilled to a generation of Jewish Americans who were at the forefront of black liberation and to younger voters who saw him as a symbol of total change for a nation nearing financial meltdown.

Earth to Gould: this isn’t about symbolism, it’s about power. What aren’t you willing to sacrifice on the alter of symbology?

Sep 2, 2009 - 2:45 pm 35. Calvin Ball:

I saw Obama speak in Philadelphia and was moved to tears. He related the story of campaign workers tirelessly distributing buttons; as he watched them canvass, a local man told him they had been Klansmen in their youth but were now staunch liberals.

What exactly is the subtext here? Are you suggesting that this magical messiah will place his magical hand on Palestine, and Hamas terrorists will suddenly join hands with Jews? Seriously, what are you smoking?

This kind of emotional rubbish is beneath consideration. Oprah might be interested. Not serious people.

Sep 2, 2009 - 2:51 pm 36. Insufficiently Sensitive:

In 2004, when I was still a staunch Bushite, I saw Obama speak in Philadelphia and was moved to tears.

OK, Ms. Gould has demonstrated that her interest in an argument assigns far more importance to the packaging than to the content. Very likely, following Obama’s moving presentation, she made no effort whatever to determine what Obama’s actual accomplishments in life had been – what he had actually done in life, beyond the ceremonial ascension of an eloquent black man through the educational establishment and the first rungs of the political ladder.

That ascension was aided by a thumb on the scales, whose weight came from the cohort of Americans who bore the liberal guilt of the 60s and wished to atone for it by the election of an ‘other’, particularly after the presidency of one GW Bush.

I could wish that Ms. Gould had been moved by an observation, over a period of time, of some real services provided under the administration of an executive Obama. But she obviously felt that such due diligence was trivial when set aside a few brief minutes of empathetic eloquence.

Hence, I am dubious about her judgement in the current debate between Dershowitz and Phillips, and shall not accept the conclusions of her current article without a lot more due diligence on my own behalf.

Sep 2, 2009 - 4:28 pm 37. wadosy:

i guess there remains the possibility that einstein was right…

…zionists are nazis, and all those supposedly cherished jewish values are nothing more than recruiting tools —aka, lies.

anyone who’s ever been hustled by a recruiter will know how that works.

once the truth starts seeping out of the woodwork, the choice becomes pretty clear: you can continue to support the ethnic cleansing and admit to your kinship with nazis…

…or you can continue to support the ethnic cleansing and hope you can smother the truth about zionism… hard to do, but if you think you can get away with it, go for it…

…or you can start acting according to those supposedly cherished jewish values.
.

anyhow, it seems like we can add another tenet of zionism:

the old standbys…
first: whine
second: might makes right
third: lie your ass off

adding the fourth: after considering all the above, make a determination before continuing: can we get away with it?

Sep 2, 2009 - 5:31 pm 38. wadosy:

do you think “one state” is politically possible…?

…seeing as how israelis have been recruiting and selecting for sociopaths for three or four generations now?

they’ve parlayed whining (holocaust) into control of the world’s mightiest army (might makes right), and solidified that control by deception (false flags and lies).

they’re threatened by geologic phenomena that cant be cured by any amount of strauss’s “noble lies” or neocon “reality creation”.

there might be a chance that the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions Movement could bring a temporary halt to the settlement expansion, but the BDS movement is doomed without support from the main media… and in terms of israel’s survival —assuming the israelis are taking global warming seriously— israel must acquire high ground, which means the halt in expansion will be temporary, especially in view of the fact that global oil production peaked, year-on-year, in 2005… which augers ill for israel’s american protector.
.

meanwhile, it looks to me like the main media is content with maintaining the status quo for as long as possible, using israel’s problems as cover for the looting, and it would be surprising if the looters, jewish or otherwise, would give a hoot about israel once they’ve stacked up enough loot to establish refuge elsewhere… for the simple reason that everyone has to know by now that israel was a bad idea in the first place.

really, the only question is whether or not the israeli leadership will be suicidal enough to employ their samson option as the situation deteriorates towards the grand finale.
.

on the other hand, i guess it’s possible that an israeli american police state will emerge, a police state, dedicated to preserving israel, that will reward its servants, dispose of its domestic enemies, and milk the rest for as long as there’s a drop left to milk…
.

aumann’s probably got every possibility he can think of, gamed out a thousand times already on his crays… and every result he gets will be bogus, for the simple reason that he’s put garbage in and he’ll get garbage out… garbage based on the belief that whining, might makes right, and deception are valid weapons.

it’s just too bad that all this had to come at once: computers, peak oil, and global warming.

and i say again: i dont think there’s gonna be any solution —a solution in keeping with supposed jewish traditions of justice, anyhow— until zionists admit israel was a mistake.

Sep 2, 2009 - 5:33 pm 39. wadosy:

not one, not a single one of you zionist apologists, is willing to face the human disasters you’re creating.

what are we supposed to think?

are non-jews subhuman?

is that what zionism finally boils down to?

.

can we add another tenet to zionism?

the old standbys…
first: whine
second: might makes right
third: lie your ass off
fourth: can we get away with it?

fifth: non-jews are not humans, so there’s no problem.

.

if einstein was right, and zionists are nazis…

will you continue to support the ethnic cleansing, drop the pretenses and admit to your kinship with nazis…?

…or will you continue to support the ethnic cleansing while hoping your propaganda machinery remains powerful enough to smother the truth about zionism…?

…or will you mend your ways, start living up to the values that jews supposedly hold in such reverence, admit israel was a mistake, and try to salvage whatever possibility of justice remains?

Sep 2, 2009 - 5:37 pm 40. Thomas:

The Chinatown phenomenon

We have to evolve and realize that Jews and Israel are two different subjects and ideas, requiring the same rational approach with with we regard Chinatown of Everyplace and the inhabitant of mainland China.

The superior wisdom of the Chinese diaspora shines when they take advantages of what the host country offers but they refrain to impose an alien, imported, mostly inimical ideology on the majority,- very often by use of force.

A Commie Chinatown resident – I guess – would prefer to move to China instead of fomenting revolutionary changes in Washington D.C. something the Liberal Jews promoting all over the world.
By corollary there is no anti-Chinese sentiment; – we can conclude growing Antisemitism is not the result of the Hungarian born E. Teller’s (H bomb) works but the political machinations of the Hungarian born Soros and the Bolshevik Jewish phalanx that surrounds the Commie “Joker”.

We must not conflate the independent Israel – which has an overwhelming majority of <i<non Anglo Jews – with the American Diaspora Jews that escaped the Holocaust and became the new bastion of the Communist “Byzantium” after the fall of their “Rome” a.k.a. Moscow.ru

Sep 2, 2009 - 5:38 pm 41. Jack in Silver Spring:

wadosy @37, 38 & 39: You must be talking about another much larger group of Semites whom you have mistaken for Jews, but that group worships too many times a day (five vs. three), face in a different direction and want to convert the world to worship their god (or his stand-in, the prophet). Also, I believe their “Good Book” calls Jews apes & monkeys, hence not human. No such thing in either the Hebrew Bible or the Greek Bible.

Sep 2, 2009 - 6:17 pm 42. Disturber:

Wadosy: Reading your spewed hatred is sickening. I am not going to waste my time rebutting all that crap. Here is what Einstein actually thought of Zionism:

“Zionism springs from an even deeper motive than Jewish suffering. It is rooted in a Jewish spiritual tradition whose maintenance and development are for Jews the basis of their continued existence as a community.”

I don’t see anything about Nazism in that quote.

You might want to read the following article by George Gilder on what your hated Israel is doing for the world:

http://www.city-journal.org/2009/19_3_jewish-capitalism.html

Yes, the very computer that you use to spread your hatred is based upon Israeli technology.

Disturber

Sep 2, 2009 - 6:47 pm 43. richard:

“In 2004, when I was still a staunch Bushite, I saw Obama speak in Philadelphia and was moved to tears. He related the story of campaign workers tirelessly distributing buttons; as he watched them canvass, a local man told him they had been Klansmen in their youth but were now staunch liberals.’ does this ring true to anyone? i find it to be total b.s. from a president who is being revealed for the inexperienced leftist community organizer he is. he is not a person to be trusted as t5he american public is finding out.

Sep 2, 2009 - 7:05 pm 44. Marie Claude:

the chinese expats aren’t this amorph population, who just mind her own businesses. Chinese are all related to their “celeste empire”, China. It was evident when China ask them to manifest, like chinese mobs did last year in western countries that wellcome Dalai-Lama complaining about the events in Tibet and looking for a boy-cott of the Olympic Games. Also, Chinese government opportunitly let the their “net” open to its citizens to promote the “party” views, and to launch a boy-cott on western goods.

Sep 2, 2009 - 7:26 pm 45. wadosy:

Results 1 – 10 of about 12,500 for einstein letter “new york times” 1948 israel fascist nazi

Sep 2, 2009 - 7:30 pm 46. Thomas:

@39. wadosy:

Yes darling, we continue to support Israel and you can either pound sand, pull your hair out or you have the choice to join the Commies in San Fran. or the Nazis in Skokie, IL.
Bad news for you.

But don’t make war on Israel because pretty Israeli girl-soldiers with Uzi or Galil gun could cut out your 2 eggs and return them to you boiled or scrambled, stuffed in your filthy mouth.

What other choices “wadosy” do you have?

Moving around on forums and vomit your primitive hate which has no intellectual content…that’s all you have in life, buddy.
Apparently the Israelis made your sorry life even more miserable: don’t let your pain fester in your belly, let it out, spit the froth from you mouth, and sing with me “Allah Akbar”.
Ramadan is approaching so wash your feet and praise “Allah the merciful” during full moon.
And beware of the Zionists as Cynthia McKinley suggested.

Sep 2, 2009 - 8:46 pm 47. Pragmatist:

Wadosy or can I call you Dosy for short. Are you MOHO the Mohammedan ARADB antismitic JEW HATING Troll in disguise?

Sep 2, 2009 - 9:29 pm 48. Pragmatist:

Wadosy perhaps you would like to look at my posts # 6 and let me have your response. Your inability to answer logically and politely will be taken as a defeat for you and your Mohammedan propagandist friends.

Sep 2, 2009 - 9:34 pm 49. scott:

Dershowits makes me ill. Typical lawyer. Can argue any side of any issue. Because he believes nothing.

BUT

This whole issue makes me sad very sad that America has gone so wrong. I can’t blame know-nothings for voting for Zero. The pubbies had no candidate and had devolved into Rat lookalikes. At least Zero seemed like ’something’ as opposed to the pubbie big nothing.

We have the government we deserve.

Sep 2, 2009 - 10:37 pm 50. Ruvy:

if einstein was right, and zionists are nazis…

A round of thanks goes to “Wadosi”, who posts trash that belongs more appropriately on the site Dissident Voice, a “radical” site that has only one problem – it cannot tolerate dissident voices. It is Stalinist in the best of dictatorial traditions, and represents the future of the American news media.

Even an Arab kid working his way through university here is smarter than the fools at that site – and he is smarter than Wadosi as well….

Sep 2, 2009 - 10:50 pm 51. Crusader:

Can anyone tell me why this pro-Obama idiot was allowed to post an article on PJ media?

Sep 3, 2009 - 12:31 am 52. Ruvy:

The American government under CERTAIN presidents may have been anti-Israel, but in general, America has proven overwhelmingly it’s loyalty to the Jewish State time and time again.

Sorry, Toronto, you are missing the essential point here. For the most part, Amderican foreign policy is driven by its State Department. George Marshall, arguing against partition in 1947, told his boss, Truman, that creating a Jewish entity in the Middle East would be “a mistake of historic proportions”. He quit when ordered by Truman to instruct the American UN delegation vote for partition. But He was the exception who proved the rule. It has been a fact of life at State that if you wanted a career there, you stayed away from Israel postings.

The State Department is institutionally anti-Israel, and has become with time, more and more filled with Jew-hatred. Marshall’s resignation was the exception that proved the rule, and the State Department has been laboring as best it could to undo the “historic mistake” of creating a Jewish entity in the Middle East. In other words, it has been trying to destroy Israel.

Most American presidents have more or less followed the lead of the State Department, packaging its anti-Israel policies as a “Special Relationship” between two “allies”. This was true for Nixon, for Bush, for his son, for Clinton, and would have been true for McCain, had he been elected.

Obama, by contrast, has ripped away the mask of lies and deceptions – that only benefits us in Israel. The enemy is out there, and it is the government of the United States of America.

As for Israel “not being welcoming”, I got six months free language training, free health insurance for six months, tax breaks on utilities bought here, and will still get tax breaks on property I buy here. In addition, I got a place to live at very low price for nearly a year.

Neither my father nor grandfather got any of these things when they immigrated to the United States.

Sep 3, 2009 - 12:36 am 53. wadosy:

…he thought about the twelfth-century heresy of the Free Spirit. Either god was everything, or god was nothing… and god, to them, was very definitely everything… there was nothing that wasnt god, and indeed how could there be?

Milgrim had never been one for metaphysics, but now the combination of his captivity, medication on demand, and this text was starting to reveal the pleasure to be had from metaphysical contemplation… particularly if you were contemplating these Free Spirit guys, who seemed to have been a combination of Charlie Manson and Hannibal Lecter.

and insofar as everything was equally of god, they taught, those who were most in touch with the godness in every last thing would make it a point to do anything at all, particularly anything still forbidden by those who hadnt yet gotten the Free Spirit message… to which end they went around having sex with anybody they could get to hold still for it, or not, as the case may be— rape being viewed as particularly righteous, and murder equally so.

it was like a secret religion of mutually empowered sociopaths, and Milgrim thought it was probably the single gnarliest example of human behavior he’d ever heard of… someone like Manson, for instance, simply wouldnt have been able to get any traction, had he landed among the brothers and sisters of the Free Spirit… probably, Milgrim guessed, Manson would have hated it… what good would it be to be Charlie Manson in a whole society of serial killers and rapists…?

william gibson in spook country

Sep 3, 2009 - 1:53 am 54. Calvin Ball:

Ruvy, close, but no cigar. Why did Bush II and Powell part ways? It was over mideast policy, and the way Powell basically became a mouthpiece for the Foggy Bottom apparatus. Then Rice took over, and after about a month of better expectations, she got gobbled up by the blob, too. The agency is like that. They’ve never been run from the top; they’ve always been run from the bottom.

What’s going on now is probably closer, as you say, to running policy from the top down to the liking of the organization than we’ve seen in a generation. But the relationship between Obama and Clinton is still…er…fishy. It’s not like Hillary Clinton to be so quiet and obedient. Something’s coming down the pike; I’m just not sure what. Stay tuned; this almost assuredly will get more interesting.

I also think you’re not being completely fair to some other presidents; for example, Nixon was a documented antisemite (on the tapes), but he was a lot better to Israel than Carter, who was so sanctimoniously ecumenical.

And for what it’s worth, I think a lot of people, in Israel, North America, and Europe, get the relationship with the Saudis wrong. Their influence isn’t because they grant the privilege of buying their oil. In fact, the vast majority of their oil is shipped to Europe and Asia. The real influence of the Saudis is that 1) they were among the most staunch and loyal allies in the cold war, and 2) they have become quite good at spreading money around into high-leverage places.

The reason why the entire Foggy Bottom apparatus from the janitor on up is so loyal to them is a combination of those things. They played their cards very smartly. Of course, a background of cultural antisemitism probably made it a little easier than it otherwise might have been, but a lot of these FB careerists are still in cold war mode. They still are thinking about their friends in Riyadh against the Soviet-backed Baathists.

By the time the old cold warriors die off, the organization will be populated with multiculturalist Arabists. The reason for Arabism will change. The outward reality won’t.

Sep 3, 2009 - 9:33 am 55. Marie Claude:

“the vast majority of their oil is shipped to Europe and Asia” OK, then where does your oil come from, cuz it ain’t from Saui arabia, nor from Irak, nor from Iran neither from Lybia, nor Russia, and Venezueala… ?

a bet, from only Alaska ????

Sep 3, 2009 - 10:23 am 56. Calvin Ball:

You could look it up. There is this thing called the internet. I think you’re actually connected to it.

The US still produces a substantial (about 30%) amount domestically. Some of the rest does, in fact, come from Venezuela. Other major suppliers include Mexico and Canada. And then there’s Nigeria. And yes, a small amount (iirc ~10%) from the Gulf.

Sep 3, 2009 - 11:47 am 57. Thomas:

@55. Marie Claude:
Before you posted your snide remark you could have made this quick query on Google and remain “tres intelligente”:

Top 10 USA Crude Oil Suppliers

America imported US$204.3 billion worth of crude oil in 2007 from 10 of the world’s largest oil producers listed below.

1. Canada … US$38 billion (17.8% of U.S. imports from top 20 oil-producing nations)
2. Saudi Arabia … $33.8 billion (15.8%)
3. Mexico … $30.3 billion (14.2%)
4. Nigeria … $30.1 billion (14.1%)
5. Venezuela … $30 billion (14%)
6. Angola … $12.1 billion (5.7%)
7. Algeria … $11.5 billion (5.4%)
8. Iraq … $10.9 billion (5.1%)
9. Brazil … $3.8 billion (1.8%)
10. Kuwait … $3.75 billion (1.8%).

Sep 3, 2009 - 11:53 am 58. Calvin Ball:

Besides (d’oh!). Even if the US were getting a large amount of crude from Saudi, it’s still not a favor. It’s a commercial transaction. It’s as beneficial to the seller as to the buyer. It’s called commerce. It is what it is. It’s not a favor to either the buyer or the seller unless it’s at off-market prices, in which case, it’s a transaction bungled with a gift. No customer (not even Israel) begs for their oil. They pay for it.

The Arabs tried an embargo once. It hurt them a lot more than it hurt the customers. Note that they’ve never tried that stunt in the 35 years since.

Sep 3, 2009 - 11:54 am 59. Marie Claude:

ah than you for your kind explanations, it spared me some boring home work, I’m getting lazy at times

Sep 3, 2009 - 12:23 pm 60. Ruvy:

, I think a lot of people, in Israel, North America, and Europe, get the relationship with the Saudis wrong…..The real influence of the Saudis is that 1) they were among the most staunch and loyal allies in the cold war, and 2) they have become quite good at spreading money around into high-leverage places.

You missed the biggie, Calvin. The Saudi thugdom is an American creation. You’re right about the money, but the point that others will make is that their money comes from oil – whether Americans cough up the money for that oil is irrelevant once the money is in their grubby paws.

I also think you’re not being completely fair to some other presidents; for example, Nixon was a documented antisemite (on the tapes), but he was a lot better to Israel than Carter, who was so sanctimoniously ecumenical.

If you look at the whole package, you realize that there was no perceptible difference between Carter and Nixon. Nixon started out in 1970 with a Quaker-backed document for pushing Israel out of Judea and Samaria, the Old City, Egypt, the Heights of Golan…. In 1973, Kissinger nearly killed Israel off by welshing on the arms deal reached after he bullied Golda Meir into not attacking first. After the fighting ended the victor gave up land to the loser – at Kissinger’s insistence. In 1974 (or was it 1975?) America allowed Yassir Arafat to speak at the UN, violating NYC gun laws as he did so. Carter was worse than this? Did he maybe twist the knife of betrayal left instead of right?

Sep 3, 2009 - 1:31 pm 61. tanarg:

Good grief! Obama is a Communist!!! He hates America.

Sep 3, 2009 - 6:37 pm 62. Calvin Ball:

The Saudi thugdom is an American creation.

I just said in 56 and 58 why that’s rubbish, and Thomas was good enough to furnish the details in 57. If the US stopped importing any Gulf oil (and YOUR Obama is helping to make sure that doesn’t happen by keeping most of the US oil off limits to production; I dearly wish the US would do what is necessary to become oil independent), in the long run, demand from India and China, would quickly take up the slack.

This is a complicated issue, but until some major technological breakthroughs occur, it’s going to remain this way. Politics only helps the oil exporters, including cap-n-tax. By targeting carbon, instead of oil, they’re taking synthetic fuels off the table. And, of course, any alternative energy economy will require nuclear power in massive quantities, which these jerks oppose. Windmills and solar aren’t a serious alternative (and yes, I’ve seen your silly half-dozen windmills in Golan, half of which weren’t even turning).

It’s true that Aramco is an acronym for Arabian American Oil company. That’s because at the time that Aramco was formed, the US was pretty much the sole source for oil production technology in the world, so the Saudis wisely formed a consortium in order to get their production going. It had nothing to do with US demand; it had everything to do with US supply.

And whether you know it or not, a goodly amount of the oil that goes to your refineries in Haifa and Ashdod is Arab oil; most of which is Gulf oil. Your country nominally buys it from Russia, but what shows up at your terminal is what they had in the distributor’s tank. You’re probably burning more Saudi oil in your car than that average American does in his, and you have been for decades.

So don’t be so goddam smug. If you guys are really such holier-than-though hotshots, here’s a challenge: put your best minds at the Technion to the task of developing an alternative energy paradigm that can beat the economics and flexibility of oil. If you can pull that off, you’ll be the richest country in the world, your enemies will be dirt poor, and the rest of the world will be delighted to not be sending our money to the assholes not only in the Arab world, but in Venezuela and other nasty places elsewhere.

Go ahead. Make my day.

Sep 3, 2009 - 7:30 pm 63. Thomas:

@60. Ruvy:

Seven Pillars of Wisdom – by T. E. Lawrence

The Saudi Kingdom was the creation of the British, namely by Lawrence of Arabia after WWI. You can read the book or watch the movie; – let’s remain accurate with History.

In your post #52 you state:
“The enemy is out there, and it is the government of the United States of America.”

You probably overlooked a palpable and very salient point that many Americans started to take note of: the fact that Government is run by Jews, financed by Jewish election money, and propped up by Jewish owned media, academia and Hollywood.

The current systemic hostility toward Israel – that may forebode the dissolution of Israel – is the exclusive creation of your Marxist brethren from “A”xelrod all the way to “Z”inn.

It’s a bit disingenuous attempt to put the blame one some and absolve the the little “kissingers” like Soros, Emanuel, Kenneth Roth at HRW, ACLU etc. to whom the guilt belongs.

Sep 3, 2009 - 8:51 pm 64. Ruvy:

Calvin,

I’m not talking about oil here – you are! I’m not talking about commerce either – you are! I’m not talking about energy independence – you are!

I’m talking about loyalty!

The basic link between the Thugdom of ibn Saud and the United States is that the Thugdom is an American creation developed to aid American commerce. Oil companies – with the help of the native regime – have managed to turn the equation around. It’s no longer cheap oil – it’s expensive oil. So what initially appeared to benefit Americans now taxes them – and everybody else.

But my primary concern here is not oil. My primary concern is that the United States government is an enemy of the Jewish entity here because it is institutionally pro-Arab, and powerful American interests have successfully corrupted Israeli politicians and our system so that our leaders do your government’s bidding rather than what is needed to keep us free. And American Jews – all too many of them – go along with the American government and do not care about their own ultimate JEWISH self-interests.

Sep 3, 2009 - 9:51 pm 65. wadosy:

American Jews – all too many of them – go along with the American government and do not care about their own ultimate JEWISH self-interests.

it’s in all jews’ self-interest to abandon their morals to defend israel.

once you’re over that hurdle and have abandoned your morals, why, anything’s possible, isnt it?

…for instance, a nuke false flag attack on america, blamed on iran and north korea, staged by israel to revive the flagging war on terror, which has somehow failed to morph into your beloved “clash of civilizations”, in which the american government will exterminate muslims for israel.

meanwhile, all those jews who’ve abandoned their morals will surely help the goys get over their antisemitism.

Sep 3, 2009 - 11:39 pm 66. wadosy:

too many people are connecting the dots, but this operation seems to have taken on a life of its own, and it’s fitting right into the age-old pattern.

you’ve overextended yourselves after having exploited the holocaust for so long that you think you’re exempt from criticism —you’re like kids turned loose without supervision in a candy store.

in the meantime, the big wheels will skate with the loot and leave the little people —including the little israelis— holding the bag.

with any luck at all —from the big wheels’ point of view— the reprisals will be bad enough that you’ll have a new persecution myth to whine about when it’s time to start the next cycle.

it boils down to the same old choice: you can dump the predators and start living up to the values you profess to believe in, or you can suffer the consequences of your immoral behavior… assuming there’s potential enough in jewishness to heal itself.

Sep 3, 2009 - 11:54 pm 67. wadosy:

…and way down deep, behind everything, is the fact that the israel project was a mistake, a violation of the jewish morality you profess to be so proud of…

if israel wasnt such a huge mistake, you wouldnt now be in the pickle you’re in.

doesnt take a nobel-winning game theorist to figure all this out.

Sep 4, 2009 - 12:06 am 68. Calvin Ball:

I’m not talking about oil here – you are!
[...]
The basic link between the Thugdom of ibn Saud and the United States is that the Thugdom is an American creation developed to aid American commerce. Oil companies – with the help of the native regime – have managed to turn the equation around. It’s no longer cheap oil – it’s expensive oil. So what initially appeared to benefit Americans now taxes them – and everybody else.

Not talking about oil, eh?

But my primary concern here is not oil. My primary concern is that the United States government is an enemy of the Jewish entity here because it is institutionally pro-Arab, and powerful American interests have successfully corrupted Israeli politicians and our system so that our leaders do your government’s bidding rather than what is needed to keep us free.

As I said. The entanglement due to the supply of their oil industry was one small reason, but the bigger ones were 1) the fact that the Saudis were (again, for their own reasons) faithful cold warriors, and 2) the Saudis spread a LOT of that oil money around the whores of DC. Unlike the BP/Libya deal, the supply of oil itself isn’t a major factor. Even if the US didn’t buy any oil from the Magic Kingdom, or sell any oilfield technology, they’d still have trillions in Eurasian money to spread around the whores of DC.

That’s their real power. And in particular, that’s how they get the academic whores (cough Yale press cough) to do their bidding. It’s not the oil, it’s the money that they get from the oil, and the fact that so many American institutions, inside and outside of government, are so easily bribed.

And American Jews – all too many of them – go along with the American government and do not care about their own ultimate JEWISH self-interests.

That’s a very different issue, predicated on a whole lot of things having nothing to do with oil. But yes, that’s completely correct.

Sep 4, 2009 - 4:40 pm

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