Pajamas Media

48 Comments

1. Mongo:

I’ve looked at the article and this quote:

“The ten-year ban on assault weapons was signed into law by President Bill Clinton in 1994 but was allowed to lapse in the Bush presidency, despite a 2004 U.S. Department of Justice study finding that the share of gun crimes involving automatic weapons dropped by 17%, to 72%.”

now says this (caps are for emphasis on my part):

“The ten-year ban on assault weapons was signed into law by President Bill Clinton in 1994 but was allowed to lapse in the Bush presidency, despite a 2004 U.S. Department of Justice study finding that the share of gun crimes involving SEMI-AUTOMATIC weapons dropped by 17%, to 72%.”

I guess he changed it after you wrote this article. It makes even less sense the way he writes it now though.

Apr 10, 2009 - 5:07 am 2. Brian Richard Allen:

Seems Mr Tina Brown Evans (our beloved fraternal republic, thank God, recognizes no titles) experiences the same difficulties with Truth that also from time to time trip up Ms Tina Harrry Evans Brown.

Seems also that in addition to his anti-gun hyperbole Mr Tina Brown had great difficulty understanding the oath he swore while becoming an American. Which oath states:

“I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen;

“That I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic;

That I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law;

That I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law;

“That I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law and;

“That I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.”

Seems Mr sir Harold Tina Brown Evans either swore the oath while having mental reservation or purpose of evasion and/or forgot the bit about absolutely and entirely renouncing and abjuring all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state and sovereignty?

And/or forgot and/or swore while having mental reservation and/or evasion of mind the bit about his supporting and defending the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic — and that he would bear true faith and allegiance to the same?

Which Constitution, thank God, unambiguously states that neither Mr Tina Brown not the congress shall infringe upon the (God given) right of the People to keep and bear arms!

Brian Richard Allen
Los Angeles CalifOZEROcated 90028 — and the Far Abroad

Apr 10, 2009 - 5:20 am 3. CrumbleKid:

Well you’ve picked a few holes in the specifics but you’ve completely ignored the main thrust of Evans’ argument. America is awash with guns and awash with murder. To deny the linkage is pure self deception. Is there a country in the world that looks upon America’s gun laws with envy? They all think we’re stark raving mad.

Apr 10, 2009 - 5:37 am 4. Sk8 Punk:

This is sick. One of the most mystifying questions I have about the battle between Right and Left is why the Left can use the visceral attack,”You’ve got blood on your hands” but the Right can’t. I always assumed it was because the Left makes the rules and controls the game, but there is also an unwillingness on the Right to call a spade a spade. No one called Harry Reid out for his idiotic and irresponsible comments about the Iraq War being lost, even though, according to Leftist logic such comments made him an accessory to murder of US soldiers (his comments were on Al-Jazeera and Islamic radical websites within days).

We are calling the Left out on their soft bigotry, but we have to fight harder to end the mainstreaming of fringe stupidity like this. I just blogged on this. The most dangerous and cancerous situation facing our society is the mainstreaming and norming of stupid fringe thinking. It destroys our ability to assess a problem, much less analyze it, and it is destroying youth’s ability to have a healthy perspective about anything.

Apr 10, 2009 - 6:32 am 5. Sk8 Punk:

RE CrumbleKid.
Get some facts first. The world thought we “were stark raving mad” back in 1776 when we invented a little thing called modern democracy. What “linkage” are you talking about? Switzerland has more guns per capita than just about any country in the world, definitely more than us, and they have a lower murder than all those other gunless societies around them. Where are you coming from?!

Apr 10, 2009 - 6:37 am 6. Bob Owens:

Rates of gun ownership are higher in other nations, as are rates of gun violence.

If you want to be honest about what the problem is, don’t look to average gun owners that make up roughly a third of the population, but instead focus on where the problem lies in New York and Hollywood.

Our society is violent not because there are firearms, but because we manufacture and export violence as entertainment to absurd levels. Our cinemas are awash in blood as we roll from slasher flick to bullet-pocked action film where sociopaths and psychopaths are celebrated as anti-heroes, and murderous real-life scum are treated as intellectuals (Che).

Do you REALLY want to get a handle on violence? Crack down on music and videos and subcultures that celebrate “thug life” (hip-hop) drunken adolescent rage (metal) and impotent, suicidal melancholy (emo).

Of course, if you tried such things, the ACLU and the bevy of well-paid special interests grounds would sue you out of existence.

Direct “freedom of speech,” no matter how damaging that constant message of death and destruction is, will always be defended, while guns and gunowners are demonized.

That’s like blaming Ford for drunk driving.

There are in excess of 30,000 gun laws in America, Crumblekid, more than any nation on earth, and they accomplish nothing. What is “stark raving mad” are those people that think adding law 30,001 or 30,002 will make the least bit of difference. The definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results, but anti-gun cranks haven’t learned after 30,000 evolutions. It’s safe to suggest they aren’t just crazy, but stupid.

Meanwhile, laws actually targeted at the cultural source of the violence are nonexistent.

Hollywood would pitch a fit, and they’d pay of all the right liberals to protect their “freedom of speech.”

The culture of violence we have is a direct result of liberal and libertine social mores.

Congratulations on what you’ve created.

Apr 10, 2009 - 6:51 am 7. bob:

The US has more murders in just about any non-gun category than total murders per capita in any other industrialized nation. The US is just a violent country, and removing all the guns might mitigate some of those murders, but would still leave the US with an outrageous murder rate. The problem is obviously not guns, but cultural. Removing the guns would be attacking a symptom, not the cause.

Apr 10, 2009 - 7:16 am 8. Pastor of Muppets:

Bob Owens: “If you want to be honest about what the problem is, don’t look to average gun owners that make up roughly a third of the population, but instead focus on where the problem lies in New York and Hollywood.”

Spoken like a true moron. Glenn Beck gets on TV and radio every day and tells his audience that the government is “coming to take your guns away. Then he brings on a representative from the NRA to confirm his opinion that the government is “coming to take your guns away”. Then he shows his audience a Nazi montage and warns us all of jack-booted fascism that will rule our lives and take away our freedoms.

Even a child can watch a violent movie (though he should not be allowed) and understand that there is a clear difference between the violent fantasy he sees on the screen and reality.

Why is it that right-wing conservative adults who watch the Glenn Beck show cannot make the same distinction?

Apr 10, 2009 - 7:30 am 9. Scott:

A google search turned up the study cited in the article. Perhaps, fact-checking should go both ways.

http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/204431.pdf

The specific cite is on page 8.

Apr 10, 2009 - 8:04 am 10. Tim:

Master of Puppets, change the words Glenn Beck to Keith Olbermann in your diatribe and it reads exactly right. Or we could use Rush/Matthews. How about O’Reilly/Rather. Both sides are guilty of not thinking for themselves. Quite frankly, the left started it. Bush is a Nazi/moron/jackass, he is ruining the country, not my president etc. It really sucks when the shoe is on the other foot doesn’t it? Try thinking for yourself once in a while, All of you.

Apr 10, 2009 - 8:08 am 11. Pastor of Muppets:

Tim: “Master of Puppets, change the words Glenn Beck to Keith Olbermann in your diatribe and it reads exactly right. Or we could use Rush/Matthews. How about O’Reilly/Rather. Both sides are guilty of not thinking for themselves. Quite frankly, the left started it. Bush is a Nazi/moron/jackass, he is ruining the country, not my president etc. It really sucks when the shoe is on the other foot doesn’t it? Try thinking for yourself once in a while, All of you.”

Tim, you’re full of crap. That’s a false equivalency and you know it. Olbermann, Matthews, O’Reilly are in a completely different universe from Glenn Beck.

Please find me a clip of Olbermann dousing a guest on his show in fake gasoline, lighting a match, and then telling the audience that “this is what the president wants to do to you.”

Please find me a clip of Dan Rather crying into the camera and saying that he “fears for his country”.

Please find me a clip of Chris Matthews with a giant screen behind him showing Nazi marches, and telling everyone that our leaders are taking us towards fascism.

Please also find me a clip of any supposed “left wing” network or cable news commentator calling Bush a fascist/totalitarianist/Nazi.

You can’t.

But I can find you clips of Glenn Beck doing all those things. I can also find you a clip of Beck and the LaPierre from the NRA telling everyone that Obama is going to take your guns away. What a crazy coincidence that a right-wing white supremacist nut job who was afraid that Obama was going to take his guns killed police officers just days after Glenn Beck’s tirade.

Tim, you don’t have a leg to stand on in this argument.

Apr 10, 2009 - 8:31 am 12. Bob Owens:

You’re wrong Scott.

The study you cite claims:

“Following implementation of the ban, the share of gun crimes involving AWs declined by 17% to 72% across the localities examined for this study (Baltimore, Miami, Milwaukee, Boston, St. Louis, and Anchorage), based on data covering all or portions of the 1995-2003 post-ban period.”

AW refers to the semi-automatic (one shot per trigger pull) military-look firearms actually covered by the ban. Evans clearly stated that the use of automatic weapons–machine guns that were in now way addressed by the 1994 law–went down.

Having defined what a semi-automatic weapon was himself, Evans was clearly attempting to trick readers into thinking that the 1994 bill banned machine guns, when it did nothing of the sort, just as he lied when he said gun dealers were responsible for selling guns to anyone with cash without background checks.

Evans purposefully misled his audience, and we now see that The Daily Beast has gone back and tried to clean up after Evans.

Also this was not an official DOJ study, hence the warning on the very first page:

“This report has not been published by the U.S. Department of Justice.
To provide better customer service, NCJRS has made this Federally funded grant final report available electronically in addition to
traditional paper copies.

“Opinions or points of view expressed are those of the author(s) and do not necessarily reflect the official position or policies of the U.S. Department of Justice.”

You’ll also note that the study was done in just six communities, which Evans attempted to imply represented a national average.

No matter how you try to slice this, no matter how you try to defend this, Evans is a very experienced newspaperman who knew precisely what he was doing when he tried to mislead his readers.

That you’re apparently willing to be mislead… well, that says more about you than anyone else.

Apr 10, 2009 - 8:36 am 13. Ses:

ah yes, the parade of obamabots chimes in once again to display their total ignorance of the facts and protect the murders by once again claiming that it was the fault of the weapon, not the person.

what a joke, march on you silly crazy botheads, march on!!!
I wish someone was paying me to write comments in blogs!

Apr 10, 2009 - 8:43 am 14. Chris H:

Sk8 Punk:

The Swiss example is an interesting one. All males in Switzerland are compelled to do national service and are called up on an annual basis for refresher training. Each Swiss male is issued with a rifle [by the state!] which he must keep under lock and key until such time as he is called upon to defend his nation.

You won’t find any gun shops in Switzerland [except for specialist hunting stores]. No one keeps a hand gun in the glove compartment of their car.

I absolutely buy into the argument that America has a violent culture and that removing guns won’t by itself remove the problem. But a tightening of gun laws would at the very least be a step away from that violent culture. It would signal an intention that things can be different. It might take a hundred years, but surely any improvement is better than none at all?

Apr 10, 2009 - 9:01 am 15. Byron Dickens:

Maybe idiots like Mr. Evans shoule try – I don’t know – maybe actually VISITING a gun show to see what really goes on there.

And how do morons like CrumbleKid explain countries like England that are awash in draconian gun control laws, yet awash with murder and other violent crime too?

Apr 10, 2009 - 9:14 am 16. Curtis:

Bob -

Either Mr. Evans misunderstood the report or he DELIBERATELY is misrepresenting what it says. The attempt by the DAILY BEAST is ‘fix’ the misstatement is woefully inadequate.

Evans original language was this: “….study finding that the share of gun crimes involving automatic weapons dropped by 17%, to 72%.” The DAILY BEAST attempted to ‘fix’ this by substituting “semi-automatic” in place of the “automatic”.

However, the study said NOTHING of the sort. First, the study is clearly referring to AW (the types of ‘assault weapons’ covered by the ban) and NOT to semi-automatic weapons in general.

SECOND (as most important), the drop in crimes using “AW” was not an overall 17% drop DOWN TO 72% (meaning it wasn’t EVER at 89%). The study covered six different communities. OF THOSE COMMUNITIES, the drop in those gun related crimes (which actually involved “assault weapons” rather than regular old revolvers or semi-auto pistols/rifles) ranged from a 17% drop to a 72% drop.

Now, someone may claim that a 72% drop in gun-related crime using “AW” is a definite improvement, but remember that the % of crimes where an “AW” was used is very small (between 2% and 8% according to this study).

Kinda hard to have a drop “of 17% down to 72%” if the rate of crime using “AW” is under 8%…….

Apr 10, 2009 - 9:21 am 17. Chris H:

Why do people on this board so quickly resort to insults?

Apr 10, 2009 - 9:25 am 18. CrumbleKid:

Byron Dickens

According to nationmaster.com, the US is the 24th most violent country in the world with a murder rate of 0.042802 per 1,000 people. The UK comes in at 45 with a murder rate of 0.0140633 per 1,000 people.

Do the math.

Apr 10, 2009 - 9:33 am 19. Sebastian Shaw:

It’s business as usual from the Fellatio Media.

Apr 10, 2009 - 9:57 am 20. Tim:

Pastor of Muppets, how about Rather being fired for creating false documentation regarding Bush? How about Matthews “Leg Shiver” for Obama. That’s good honest journalism boy. How about 8 years of unrelenting attacks by Matthews and Olberman on any and all repubs while giving a pass to any dem that did wrong? Where was the media coverage of James Carville saying on 9-11-01 that he hopes Bush fails? Of course Arab terrorist flew two planes into the world trade center right after that and he told his accomplices in the press to “forget all that”. And of course, they did. I don’t actually watch any of these jack-asses, left or right. “Journalism” is dead. It has been replaced by partisan hackery on both sides. I have two legs to stand on in this argument, and a third that just hangs there “in case”.

Apr 10, 2009 - 9:58 am 21. Pastor of Muppets:

Tim: “Pastor of Muppets, how about Rather being fired for creating false documentation regarding Bush? How about Matthews “Leg Shiver” for Obama. That’s good honest journalism boy. How about 8 years of unrelenting attacks by Matthews and Olberman on any and all repubs while giving a pass to any dem that did wrong?”

Typical. When you can’t win the argument, you change the subject.

Firstly, Dan Rather did not falsify any documents. He accepted falsified documents from an unreliable source, incidentally, the same way Bush accepted falsified documents from an unreliable source, “Curveball” which he used to lead us into war.

But to the matter at hand, nobody was motivated to shoot and murder another individual as a result of Dan Rather’s shoddy journalism, nor by any creepy sentiments that Chris Matthew’s may harbor for the President. Glenn Beck, on the other hand, is clearly inciting disturbing and violent behavior. His right to free speech does not include the right to scream fire in a crowded theater, and that’s exactly what he’s doing every day. And innocent people are being shot and killed as a result.

Apr 10, 2009 - 11:44 am 22. ronnor:

Governments and their enablers are the biggest killers of citizenry and socialist governments hold the records. The National Socialists [the socialist Nazi's] were small potatoes compared to the USSR [United Soviet Socialist Republic], the Nazi killed maybe 10 million and the Communist over 50 million, throw in the Chinese socialist Communist and you have over 100 million easy. So now we have the propagandists of Socialism saying we should disarm because of some acts by thugs/insane or criminals leaving us easy picking for a Socialist type government where re-education camps abound and we get to find out about Cyklon ‘B’ the hard way. Personally I don’t want to trust government with my well being since they have a proven track record of killing you if your not careful and are armed against them. Of 192 Countries in the world 162 of them kill their citizens with impunity. If you can read the Constitution of this country and not know who much the signers distrusted government you are goofy, government is to be feared and held responsible otherwise you have $700 Billion Dollar bailouts and not know how the money is spent, you have state funded ACORN’s becoming Gestapo like and you have to worry about being re-educated until you stop breathing. Governments fear armed citizens, without guns they go up the smoke stacks or are frozen like popsicles in Gulags.

Apr 10, 2009 - 12:08 pm 23. Earl T:

Chris H,

Which of the 30,000 gun laws currently in force in states and municipalities across the US, are accomplishing what they claim to do?

Name one effective gun control law or provisison that can be factually shown to really deter CRIMINALS’ use of firearms! ( You can’t—no examples exist!)

Then state how you would intend to improve upon any of these multitudinous ineffective laws.

Apr 10, 2009 - 12:43 pm 24. Earl T:

Bob,

You state Evans “clearly know the difference” between automatic and semi-automatic weapons, but his statement that high capacity magazines allow semi-auto shooters to “fire hundreds of rounds per minute”, obviously shows he doesn’t!

On my best day at the range, I’d be ecstatic if I could maintain a rate of fire at 60 RPM for TWO minutes and not have my fingers and hands fall off from the shock and exhaustion of such effort.

Apr 10, 2009 - 12:50 pm 25. Curtis:

Pastor of Muppets:

“But to the matter at hand…..”

That’s strange – I thought the matter at hand was the diatribe and twisted ‘facts’ regarding the Assault Weapons ban posted by Harold Evans in the Daily Beast?

Point of fact – Evans made a number of misstatements in his editorial. If you wish to return to the ‘matter at hand’, why not start with those statements?

Apr 10, 2009 - 12:51 pm 26. Dave:

“Glenn Beck, on the other hand, is clearly inciting disturbing and violent behavior.” Most vapid statement of the day.

Lets be honest. Beck is effective at exposing the extremist bent of the current Democratic party and administration so the leftist above wants him silenced. And what better way to do that than demagogue him as the next McVeigh? Typical Democrat.

Nice try, but thinking people are not going to buy that garbage.

Apr 10, 2009 - 1:07 pm 27. Stephen:

Crumblekid: 24th? So what? Why don’t you address Bob Owen’s response to your first post? Same to you Scott. You’ve got the full attention of the author of this post now. So far, he’s pounded both of you into the ground. I would think some sense of pride requires you respond now to him. Not to me; not to anyone else. Have at it.

Apr 10, 2009 - 1:18 pm 28. COL.SEBASTIAN MORAN:

CRUMBLEKID
#3
Heu junior, a little research would provide you with an interesting piece of infornmation. To wit – states which have enacted concealed carry laws have all experienced
considerable reductions in murder rates, armed robbery rates, assault rates. Perhaps you would feel safer in Britain (no longer Great !) where firearms have been outlawed. The violent crime rates have soared (google it), and now the blokes are using knives to commit crimes. There are now suggestions in jolly old England to ban knives. Whats next ? Banning rocks & sticks ? Grow up kid – do a little honest research. You might just be surprised what you’ll learn.
S.M.

Apr 10, 2009 - 2:43 pm 29. D'oh!:

Guns are tools, not robots, they don’t pull their own triggers. The best case scenario for any country would be for its citizens to be allowed to own and carry any kind of firearm, but feel no reason to do so. To paraphrase Lincoln, to the extent that such is not the case in any given country, it is no democracy.

Apr 10, 2009 - 3:34 pm 30. Gozer the Carpathian:

I once again point out to the deffinition of a “criminal.” Someone who breaks the law! Hence, no gun control law in the world will stop them. Hell they still kill people with guns in countries that BAN fire arms.

We killed one another before guns, we’ll kill each other still if you get rid of every gun on the planet. So quit trying to focus on the tool when it’s not going to help. Besides those who remove guns from the law abiding are KILLING them.

Why?

What’s the emergency response time to YOUR house? Hmm? Not all of us live in nice neighborhoods with nice high walls and alarm systems. We all know locks and fences only deter so much, if someone wants to get into your home they will. What happens inside that home is up to the individuals, not the government. Police come AFTER THE FACT, period.

Apr 10, 2009 - 4:26 pm 31. Deet:

How predictably droll that European “nobility”, and the feckless scum who support them, seem so insistent on disarming us low-bred commoners.

One would assume that they would have learned their lessons after 1776 and 1812.

Apr 10, 2009 - 9:43 pm 32. AL_in_CA:

Pastor of Muppets: “Please also find me a clip of any supposed “left wing” network or cable news commentator calling Bush a fascist/totalitarianist/Nazi.”

Here’s a YouTube video of Olbermann calling Bush a fascist at 3:46. Olbermann was ranting about the wiretapping bill that Bush wanted passed by the Senate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEcBjpsP1bU&feature=related

It’s interesting to note that the Obama Administration is now defending the wiretapping and is looking to expand it. So far I haven’t heard Olbermann calling Obama a fascist over this plan.

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Obama_Administration_quietly_expands_Bushs_legal_0407.html

Apr 10, 2009 - 10:37 pm 33. HonestJon:

30. Gozer the Carpathian: Good post!

As an example, just look South to Mexico right now. Their gun laws are tremendously more strict than ours and yet there have been thousands killed in the past couple of years. The criminals are going to get guns no matter whether it’s against the law or not…they’re criminals!

6. Bob Owens: said, “Do you REALLY want to get a handle on violence? Crack down on music and videos and subcultures that celebrate “thug life” (hip-hop) drunken adolescent rage (metal) and impotent, suicidal melancholy (emo).”

That sort of thing has been tried before. See Tipper Gore. That having been said, I do agree that the “culture” of this country celebrates violence/anarchy to a ridiculous degree. Especially the hip-hop community.

regards

Apr 11, 2009 - 12:02 am 34. Jeff Weimer:

Police come AFTER THE FACT, period.

What was that saying?

Oh Yeah,

“When seconds count, the police are minutes away.”

Apr 11, 2009 - 5:43 am 35. Alex:

There should be mandatory gun safety courses to attend. The student must be able to disassemble and reassemble a gun. Learn to shoot and how to clean and care for the weapon. Spend at least 8 hours in community service. Then they should be able to buy any damn gun(s) they want. Its not the amount of weapons available, its they are bought by people that have no context of history and damage they can do.

I own handguns, rifles and assorted firearms. They are works of art and some helped win wars. Trench Brooms in WW1 terrified german soldiers, they wanted them banned as weapon of war, today they make excellent home defense weapons, especially in the shorter barrel lengths. There is nothing like the sound of a Shotgun racking rounds; burglars leave skid mark on the carpet. There are anti personall rounds available at gun shows, wont kill but will remove all clothing and some skin from whoever is breaking into your house. Rifled shotguns are excellent hunting deer and larger. Handguns are excellent to shoot at ranges and relieve stress, it is much like ancient art of archery to focus your attention.

As you can check many of my posts lean to the left, but will be damned if anyone is going to remove my right to self defense, there is a reason it is the 2nd ammendment, it protects the 1st.
The arguement that guns in 1780 are not as lethal as today is Bull as well, guns back then were not accurate, so people would solder lead weights to piano wire. This would turn into flying guillotine removing limbs and heads that were unfortunate enough to get in the way. The blunderbluss was basically a portable cannon, loading glass and coins and lead weights into the barrel. When fired it would kill as many people as were within its 50 meter range. pistols could only hold a single shot, so they would load and carry 4-6 at a time. They lived in terrible times, and knew full well what they were insuring; the 2nd ammendment guarantees the right of the people to bear arms. There are very select places the Bill of rights refers to ” the People”, in each case it is the general population. There is no equivocation of the right for an American citizen to own a firearm.

Change is incremental, bad change is incrementally bad. Registering guns is an act of futility. How about actually enforcing gun laws on the books. Maybe spending money on education and stop the export of american jobs overseas, Maybe tossing in Jail the Bankers and Legislators that brought about the banking crisis.
Maybe then people would have the sense of a level playing field again. Its only when people lose hope that death becomes an alternative.

Apr 11, 2009 - 6:00 am 36. Charles:

If we need to get rid of the 2nd Amendment, why not throught out a few others as well.

I mean why not get rid of the 1st Amendment about freedom of the press and only allow offical government sources report about what is going on in the world. That way fear-mongering statements won’t be allowed to excite those members of the populace to do bad things. Such as those comments from armed why not through out the 4th and the 5th as well. That way the people like Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, etc.
Since we are getting rid of the 2nd Amendment to allow the population to be executive department of the government can execute searches in all of the people’s homes and sieze all fire arms without companstation back to thier owners. So lets just trash the portions of the 4th and 5th amendment to allow this to happen.
I am sure there are a few others in the first ten that we could modify or just out right get rid of as well since they really don’t need to apply any
more in these modern times.

This may sound extreme and is probably some sort of logical failure. However, regarding the rights of people versus their government it is quick slide from freedom to authoritarian rule.

As to the original post, does it suprise the author that reporters are misreporting stats and events to prove a point? Name one profession that isn’t misreporting stats or events for to further thier own cause?

Apr 11, 2009 - 9:19 am 37. HonestJon:

35. Alex: I’v never heard of lead weights being soldered to piano wire before, but it sounds pretty vicious!

Some of the old flintlock and caplock long rifles of the American frontier were extremely accurate! Out to a few hundred meters, no less! What has changed so much is the rate of fire of modern firearms.

I, like you Alex, have an assortment of firearms. I love my guns and the phrase, “Out of my cold, dead hands” accurately describes my feelings concerning the government taking them away.

regards

Apr 11, 2009 - 9:41 am 38. Войска ПВО:

#35 Alex writes:

“..There is nothing like the sound of a Shotgun racking rounds; burglars leave skid mark on the carpet.”

..not to mention their underwear.

(Great comment, by the way!)

Apr 11, 2009 - 11:08 am 39. Jeff Weimer:

Oakland Cop Killer Was a Victim, Too

“The police and witnesses have painted a savage picture of Mr. Mixon as a man who stood over his victims, fatally shooting two officers on a street in midday before fleeing into an apartment building, where two SWAT team members died and another officer was injured. Others have portrayed him as a man failed by an overloaded and flawed California penal system where thousands of former inmates flout the parole law and thousands of others skate by in programs where each agent regularly handles dozens of parolees.” — March 25 story by Jesse McKinley and Solomon Moore on Lovelle Mixon, who shot and killed four Oakland police officers after a traffic stop.

Quoted above we have a cop-killer. What was his motivation? Why is it only when it may be ascribed to ‘right wing’ pundits is that motivation put forth?

There is no evidence that anything said by Glenn Beck motivated Poplawski. So why do you ‘Pastor’ continue to push this line? Especially when there is a more heinous killing goes un-commented by you? Be consistent, please.

Apr 11, 2009 - 12:22 pm 40. The Boars hide:

Thank God I became a cop (27 year). Carry a gun and as the saying goes “I am only minutes away when seconds count.” Very true statement. Call comes out, start to roll code 3, take a few minutes to get to different parts of the city, crooks get away, sometimes they don’t.

The problem is the guns in the hands of thugs. Get rid of the thugs, problem goes away. Get rid of guns and only thugs will have guns, oh wait they were supposed to give them up too? Must not have received the memo…….

Apr 12, 2009 - 8:38 am 41. Sebastian Shaw:

Many Democrats would love to burn out the Second Amendment, but I am glad we have it; this makes it difficult to repeal unless all of the 50 states voted. Even then, it would not be repealed.

Guns are not the problem. Criminals are the problem.

I would like to see President Obama try to get rid of the Second Amendment. He & any other Democrats would be toast.

Apr 12, 2009 - 3:57 pm 42. Mike:

Every law abiding citizen should own a gun to protect home and family from the thugs that obtain guns no matter what the current law says.

Outlaw Obama and his cronies instead of guns.

Apr 13, 2009 - 11:16 am 43. RonF:

Alex:

There should be mandatory gun safety courses to attend. The student must be able to disassemble and reassemble a gun. Learn to shoot and how to clean and care for the weapon.

All these things are all good ideas for people to do on their own. But gun ownership is a RIGHT, not a PRIVILEGE. The government has no right to require such things.

Spend at least 8 hours in community service.

Why should this have any connection to gun ownership? How is putting an arbitrary barrier to gun ownership Constitutional?

Apr 13, 2009 - 12:38 pm 44. Tertium Quid:

The English armed the peasants with long bows in order to defeat the French during the Hundred Years War. Armed commoners could defeat armored knights. Of course, the commoners earned some liberty for their troubles over the centuries. The king and aristocrats did not cede power because they were magnanimous and enlightened. Those who fight for their rulers demand more liberty. Thus, the individual possession of weapons and the limitation of state power often goes hand-in-hand. The English should know this better than anyone.

In America, the government has never been competent to protect a violent people from violence, so your best protection is your own firearm. I live a quarter-mile from the police station, but I am more confident in the deterrent factor of private firearms than in the police to protect me and my family.

Finally, in America, smuggling is the second oldest profession. If you want it, you can get it, so don’t think the government could outlaw private firearms any better than it has outlawed marijuana, cocaine, or exotic pets.

In the end, firearms and an armed citizenry will outlive the regulatory state here in America.

Apr 13, 2009 - 2:15 pm 45. Rockmelon:

This may have been an argument in years past, but not today. Not when there are over 35 terrorist camps on American soil. Not when 80% of the mosques in the US are preaching hate and planning the takeover of America. Take away our guns? Over my dead body!

This is one battle that we cannot afford to lose and if it takes a revolution, I say count me in! We ALL have ancestors who lost their lives while protecting the US from outside threats. Let’s not let them down now.

Apr 14, 2009 - 11:07 am 46. Paul -Indiana:

#18 According to nationmaster.com, the US is the 24th most violent country in the world with a murder rate of 0.042802 per 1,000 people. The UK comes in at 45 with a murder rate of 0.0140633 per 1,000 people.

===============

If making guns illegal really worked, then the UK’s rate would be at zero.

Apr 15, 2009 - 8:43 am 47. Spurwing Plover:

Gun control is the biggist fruad around i mean absolutly nothing but lies and the NEW YORK SLIMES is spreading these lies

Jul 12, 2009 - 2:43 pm 48. Brad Pheet:

Everyone, shut up. Idiots.

Aug 6, 2009 - 1:13 am

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