Comments on: The Day the Jedi Died http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-day-the-jedi-died/ Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:38:29 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Lileks http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-day-the-jedi-died/comment-page-1/#comment-53633 Lileks Thu, 05 Jun 2008 01:41:33 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-day-the-jedi-died/#comment-53633 Lucas' creative shortcomings were conclusively revealed the moment he decided that the second trilogy would be a prequel. That's like following up "The Longest Day" with a movie about Chamberlain's trip to Munich. WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED, George. You told us this part already. (I did like Ep 2 more than 6, to be honest. And DS9 was the best Trek ever.) Lucas’ creative shortcomings were conclusively revealed the moment he decided that the second trilogy would be a prequel. That’s like following up “The Longest Day” with a movie about Chamberlain’s trip to Munich. WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED, George. You told us this part already.

(I did like Ep 2 more than 6, to be honest. And DS9 was the best Trek ever.)

]]> By: SPDudley http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-day-the-jedi-died/comment-page-1/#comment-53532 SPDudley Wed, 04 Jun 2008 21:40:30 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-day-the-jedi-died/#comment-53532 seePea - I agree completely that IV and V are the best of the lot, and that V is right up there as one of the best genre films of all time (not to mention perhaps one of cinema's best ever plot twists). It all went downhill from there, I'm afraid. I liked DS9 because it had a sweeping storyline and wasn't as judgemental as TNG when it came to it's characters - there was grey everywhere, including the idealistic Federation. DS9 wasn't afraid to get down and dirty if it needed to. Of course, Babylon 5 would be a step up from that. The creator of Babylon 5 originally pitched Paramount with his idea, Paramount liked the concept but didn't like him, and then JM Straczynski went to Warner Brothers and got them to do it. When both DS9 and B5 were on the air it was probably the high point of SciFi on TV, IMHO. seePea – I agree completely that IV and V are the best of the lot, and that V is right up there as one of the best genre films of all time (not to mention perhaps one of cinema’s best ever plot twists). It all went downhill from there, I’m afraid.

I liked DS9 because it had a sweeping storyline and wasn’t as judgemental as TNG when it came to it’s characters – there was grey everywhere, including the idealistic Federation. DS9 wasn’t afraid to get down and dirty if it needed to. Of course, Babylon 5 would be a step up from that. The creator of Babylon 5 originally pitched Paramount with his idea, Paramount liked the concept but didn’t like him, and then JM Straczynski went to Warner Brothers and got them to do it. When both DS9 and B5 were on the air it was probably the high point of SciFi on TV, IMHO.

]]> By: seePea http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-day-the-jedi-died/comment-page-1/#comment-51916 seePea Tue, 03 Jun 2008 00:20:25 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-day-the-jedi-died/#comment-51916 SPUudley: I still think that Star Wars The New Hope and Empire Strikes Back are more than worth the time to view, especially the ones based on the actual versions (ie: Han shoots first, Luke screams, etc). I bought one of the Trilogy Sets and have yet to view TRJ again :-) As for the Star Trek arena, I thought Deep Space Nine was pretty darned good. SPUudley: I still think that Star Wars The New Hope and Empire Strikes Back are more than worth the time to view, especially the ones based on the actual versions (ie: Han shoots first, Luke screams, etc). I bought one of the Trilogy Sets and have yet to view TRJ again :-)

As for the Star Trek arena, I thought Deep Space Nine was pretty darned good.

]]> By: SPDudley http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-day-the-jedi-died/comment-page-1/#comment-51733 SPDudley Mon, 02 Jun 2008 18:03:50 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-day-the-jedi-died/#comment-51733 Lucas' vision is inconsistent within itself. As one commenter said, he caught lightning in a bottle - twice (SW, ESB), then ran aground when his original ideas bottomed out (hence ROTJ is part re-make of SW and part his very original concept with the Wookie rebellion). If the rest of the films had been like Empire, we'd all be saying SW was this generations Lord of the Rings. Instead, we have to filter out the kiddified crap with the too-few intercetions of decent plot and action. The problem with StarWars itself is that, in the films, Lucas preaches an anti-capitalistic, anti-technology message while hawking as much SW crap as possible and pushing every means of tech available to produce them. The message of the overall saga, and espeically Eps I, II and III gets convoluted with the need make a profit from the films themselves (and thereby proving the films' philsophy wrong). There's a lot less to the saga than we'd all like to think, actually. I find the same problem with Star Trek, actually. Roddenberry was a neo-Marxist who had a personal vision for an idealized future (TNG is probably closest to what he wanted). But to pay the bills and get fans to watch, Paramount had to make movies like Wrath of Khan, which is nowhere near that worldview. This sort of thing is why so many SciFi fans are turned off from the major media. SW and ST both pale in comparison to the works of giants like Robert Heinein and Larry Niven, or even some of the stuff we see from Japan. I'm still waiting for a true SciFi epic. We won't get it in this generation. Lucas’ vision is inconsistent within itself. As one commenter said, he caught lightning in a bottle – twice (SW, ESB), then ran aground when his original ideas bottomed out (hence ROTJ is part re-make of SW and part his very original concept with the Wookie rebellion).

If the rest of the films had been like Empire, we’d all be saying SW was this generations Lord of the Rings. Instead, we have to filter out the kiddified crap with the too-few intercetions of decent plot and action.

The problem with StarWars itself is that, in the films, Lucas preaches an anti-capitalistic, anti-technology message while hawking as much SW crap as possible and pushing every means of tech available to produce them. The message of the overall saga, and espeically Eps I, II and III gets convoluted with the need make a profit from the films themselves (and thereby proving the films’ philsophy wrong). There’s a lot less to the saga than we’d all like to think, actually.

I find the same problem with Star Trek, actually. Roddenberry was a neo-Marxist who had a personal vision for an idealized future (TNG is probably closest to what he wanted). But to pay the bills and get fans to watch, Paramount had to make movies like Wrath of Khan, which is nowhere near that worldview.

This sort of thing is why so many SciFi fans are turned off from the major media. SW and ST both pale in comparison to the works of giants like Robert Heinein and Larry Niven, or even some of the stuff we see from Japan. I’m still waiting for a true SciFi epic. We won’t get it in this generation.

]]> By: Heather Cook http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-day-the-jedi-died/comment-page-1/#comment-51591 Heather Cook Mon, 02 Jun 2008 14:09:22 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-day-the-jedi-died/#comment-51591 So... you wrote this article for free because it is part of your pure "grand vision", right? So… you wrote this article for free because it is part of your pure “grand vision”, right?

]]> By: Steamboat Jack http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-day-the-jedi-died/comment-page-1/#comment-51199 Steamboat Jack Sun, 01 Jun 2008 22:33:12 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-day-the-jedi-died/#comment-51199 George Lucas makes movies to make money. If you like what he makes, fine. If you don't, then don't spend your money. George will get the message. George made the movie he wanted to make. I can understand your being disappointed; I am also disappointed. The first action movies he made were full of life, as though the entire production crew was having a good time. Now, they seem to be just going through the paces. But, it was George's movie and he had the right to do with is as he would. I wish George well, but I think that I will keep my money in my pocket. George Lucas makes movies to make money. If you like what he makes, fine. If you don’t, then don’t spend your money. George will get the message.

George made the movie he wanted to make. I can understand your being disappointed; I am also disappointed. The first action movies he made were full of life, as though the entire production crew was having a good time. Now, they seem to be just going through the paces. But, it was George’s movie and he had the right to do with is as he would.

I wish George well, but I think that I will keep my money in my pocket.

]]> By: michele http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-day-the-jedi-died/comment-page-1/#comment-50020 michele Fri, 30 May 2008 22:36:46 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-day-the-jedi-died/#comment-50020 <i>It is like Lucas is embarrassed about the original trilogy.</i> So much so that at times it seems like he is pretending they don't exist. The lack continuity, which was always a problem with Lucas - is almost mind blowing in the latter three movies. It is like Lucas is embarrassed about the original trilogy. So much so that at times it seems like he is pretending they don’t exist. The lack continuity, which was always a problem with Lucas – is almost mind blowing in the latter three movies.

]]> By: seePea http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-day-the-jedi-died/comment-page-1/#comment-50012 seePea Fri, 30 May 2008 22:23:31 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-day-the-jedi-died/#comment-50012 To Heather: sshhh, no one is supposed to remember that Padme was very much senior to Anakin To Bobbywickham: You seem to be claiming that the burial of Padme was fake. This would only make a modicum of sense if Emperor thought she was dead. The big, huge problem is the cavalier way the Emperor tells DarthVader about the rebel being a Skywalker. (btw: DV's reaction (or rather lack of) to this is one of the major minuses I attach to SithRevenge. It is like Lucas is embarrassed about the original trilogy. To Heather:
sshhh, no one is supposed to remember that Padme was very much senior to Anakin

To Bobbywickham:
You seem to be claiming that the burial of Padme was fake. This would only make a modicum of sense if Emperor thought she was dead. The big, huge problem is the cavalier way the Emperor tells DarthVader about the rebel being a Skywalker. (btw: DV’s reaction (or rather lack of) to this is one of the major minuses I attach to SithRevenge. It is like Lucas is embarrassed about the original trilogy.

]]> By: sean.sarto http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-day-the-jedi-died/comment-page-1/#comment-49916 sean.sarto Fri, 30 May 2008 20:15:58 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-day-the-jedi-died/#comment-49916 To P. Ami, No, I actually I feel a little sympathy fer George, in that I think the movie industry then was a a different kind of mess..I think why you have that Italian gangster archtype of today that bears so much influence (ie.e "Godfather" DeNiro, Pacino, even cross market-wise Springsteen)is because the industry needed cash an' probably a lot of rackerteerin' agencies saw their inroads there to wash it...an' in a spirit of lookin' out fer it's own,(not nesecarily the Italians but Jewish) somebody said, "This George kid, wants ta make pictures, He's a good kid give 'em his break"...Lucas probably didn't now what he was gettin' into.But "American Graffetti"(that blonde in the corvette) an' Star Wars are full of innocence an' innovation an' that hungry passion of gettin' the big break, (a transcendent moment) that it's a very universal human touchstone. E'rybody else: Otherwise I agree you about workin' hard fer my 10 bucks jest ta see it suckered away, ("humbugged" in the tradition of PT Barnum), is some sourin' doo-doo. An' I think it's gettin' worse...especially in terms of the Iraq War...an' Hollywood's inexplicable, instantaneous capacity to exploit it. Like it was worked out in advance, who was gonna get what opportunities in terms of the entertainment markets. It's big commodity these days. A Friday Box-office is guarented, no matter what kinda noodle you flick..."Prom Night" the original..was unheard of as box office draw when it was first released...People were ashamed about it...Movies were'nt really an honorable professions, they were bout bein' had, an' trickin' people..... Not so much these days...look at me here writin' you on the internet...What has all the great technological progress of the century been so far fielded in? Distributing Movies, Music,..communications...makin' the speed of the transaction quicker...because people are fanatical about about bein'bored I guess. I don't know? I know in the end, I can only speak fer myself.I'm gettin' more an' more satisified with bein' bored...instead of bein' had. I thought I, II, & III should have started when Annakin was about Luke's age..an' already had his evil intent. No need to explain it. The force is jest some magical wand he's been given..an' he aims to use it fer his own pleasure..he hustles the jedi, (maybe even the emporer)out fer the main chance..gettin' things in order to his needs....but he never sees Luke an' Leia in the mix...He gets duped. I knida thought of the prequels on those terms. They needed a better script that had some of that "this is my big break" passion, not "Fat cat" disposition. I hated seein' the films so reliant on IV, V, & VI (and so obsessed with Boba Fett)...an' it was downright perverse how they addressed the current political landscape, while it was progressing...that's a red flag me that say's sumethin's not right here to me. Another point in spending that $10... I can't see how shooting film in front of a green screen has become more costly then having to locate and purchase specifc model sets from all those available, so you can have jest that certain piece to explode...much less trying to concieve and create an actual prototype of say an' X-wing fighter that somehow looks right and believable. especially when if you goof, that part is no longer available....I can't see how Hollywood justifies such elaborate expense these days..when the need to build sets and effects has been so drastically reduced...and that the spectacle of such things has become more and more the central focus. The material costs are jest not there. To P. Ami,
No, I actually I feel a little sympathy fer George, in that I think the movie industry then was a a different kind of mess..I think why you have that Italian gangster archtype of today that bears so much influence (ie.e “Godfather” DeNiro, Pacino, even cross market-wise Springsteen)is because the industry needed cash an’ probably a lot of rackerteerin’ agencies saw their inroads there to wash it…an’ in a spirit of lookin’ out fer it’s own,(not nesecarily the Italians but Jewish) somebody said, “This George kid, wants ta make pictures, He’s a good kid give ‘em his break”…Lucas probably didn’t now what he was gettin’ into.But “American Graffetti”(that blonde in the corvette) an’ Star Wars are full of innocence an’ innovation an’ that hungry passion of gettin’ the big break, (a transcendent moment) that it’s a very universal human touchstone.
E’rybody else:
Otherwise I agree you about workin’ hard fer my 10 bucks jest ta see it suckered away, (”humbugged” in the tradition of PT Barnum), is some sourin’ doo-doo.
An’ I think it’s gettin’ worse…especially in terms of the Iraq War…an’ Hollywood’s inexplicable, instantaneous capacity to exploit it. Like it was worked out in advance, who was gonna get what opportunities in terms of the entertainment markets. It’s big commodity these days. A Friday Box-office is guarented, no matter what kinda noodle you flick…”Prom Night” the original..was unheard of as box office draw when it was first released…People were ashamed about it…Movies were’nt really an honorable professions, they were bout bein’ had, an’ trickin’ people….. Not so much these days…look at me here writin’ you on the internet…What has all the great technological progress of the century been so far fielded in? Distributing Movies, Music,..communications…makin’ the speed of the transaction quicker…because people are fanatical about about bein’bored I guess. I don’t know? I know in the end, I can only speak fer myself.I’m gettin’ more an’ more satisified with bein’ bored…instead of bein’ had.
I thought I, II, & III should have started when Annakin was about Luke’s age..an’ already had his evil intent. No need to explain it. The force is jest some magical wand he’s been given..an’ he aims to use it fer his own pleasure..he hustles the jedi, (maybe even the emporer)out fer the main chance..gettin’ things in order to his needs….but he never sees Luke an’ Leia in the mix…He gets duped. I knida thought of the prequels on those terms. They needed a better script that had some of that “this is my big break” passion, not “Fat cat” disposition. I hated seein’ the films so reliant on IV, V, & VI (and so obsessed with Boba Fett)…an’ it was downright perverse how they addressed the current political landscape, while it was progressing…that’s a red flag me that say’s sumethin’s not right here to me.
Another point in spending that $10…
I can’t see how shooting film in front of a green screen has become more costly then having to locate and purchase specifc model sets from all those available, so you can have jest that certain piece to explode…much less trying to concieve and create an actual prototype of say an’ X-wing fighter that somehow looks right and believable. especially when if you goof, that part is no longer available….I can’t see how Hollywood justifies such elaborate expense these days..when the need to build sets and effects has been so drastically reduced…and that the spectacle of such things has become more and more the central focus. The material costs are jest not there.

]]> By: Heather http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-day-the-jedi-died/comment-page-1/#comment-49731 Heather Fri, 30 May 2008 15:37:58 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-day-the-jedi-died/#comment-49731 I was 8 when "Jedi" came out, so I kinda liked the Ewoks (and subsequent made-for-TV movies) at the time. It wasn't until years later that I realized it was just a big toy commercial, like the pod races in "Clones." But Padme boinking a kid she used to babysit creeped me out immediately, and still does. I was 8 when “Jedi” came out, so I kinda liked the Ewoks (and subsequent made-for-TV movies) at the time. It wasn’t until years later that I realized it was just a big toy commercial, like the pod races in “Clones.”

But Padme boinking a kid she used to babysit creeped me out immediately, and still does.

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