The Departure: A Conservative Exodus to Costa Rica?
Rather than dreaming of escape to a non-existent Central American fantasy land, it’s time to realize that America is irreplaceable and worth fighting for.
Dallas Morning News columnist Rod Dreher may have to fly to Costa Rica if he wants to see some of his friends.
In one of his recent blogs, Dreher told of multiple people discussing potential moves to Costa Rica if things go downhill. These aren’t people who are eager to join Paulville. Rather, these are normal, middle-class conservatives who are considering moving to Costa Rica if the country goes downhill under President Obama.
One of the commenters on Dreher’s blog asked if this was not unlike liberals throwing a fit in 2004 and threatening to leave if Bush won. Not exactly. The left’s threat was always more of a threat to hold its breath if it didn’t get its way. The concerns of Dreher’s friends seem to have little to do with the election and far more to do with the results of Obama’s policies. So all this talk of leaving doesn’t remind me of Alec Baldwin’s threat to deprive our nation of his presence. Instead, it reminds me of a white Zimbabwean I recently met at a writer’s conference. She spoke with a longing for home, a love of a place thousands of miles away that she could only picture in her memories. Zimbabwe is not a place where one is able to prosper and thrive. At this time, many people wonder if the same thing could happen in America.
How legitimate is the concern? Senator Judd Gregg (R-NH), Obama’s second choice to head up the Commerce Department, pronounced a single word this Sunday which ought to give us all pause. Bankrupt.
The End of Opportunity
Gregg’s view that Obama’s budget will bankrupt America is backed up by the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office, which finds Obama’s scenario far too rosy and projects the debt will rise $2.3 trillion more than Obama projects, leading to deficits between four and five percent of the GDP for each of the next 10 years. By the end of 2019, America’s debt will be more than 82% of the GDP, a rate that Senator Gregg describes as in line with banana republics.
What this scenario introduces is a house of horrors atmosphere that would make the Joker cringe. When this current deflation ends, the full cost of inflationary spending will come home to roost with the potential for hyperinflation with an ever-increasing debt. If, as Gregg has said, the U.S. begins to run out of willing lenders, it will lead to back-breaking taxes and extremely painful cuts in government spending. The combination of high taxes and hyperinflation would lead to high poverty, possibly social unrest, civil war, and heightened risk of a foreign terrorist attack.
If such a scenario develops, will people leave the country? Yes. America is a country made up of people whose ancestors came here in search of opportunity for themselves and their families. As the opportunity to succeed vanishes, it’s inevitable that some people will leave in search of places where they can achieve success, rather than spending the majority of their working time paying off wasteful politicians’ credit cards.
Fantasy Country
Will America have to worry about losing its best and its brightest to Costa Rica? The Heritage Foundation suggests some more obvious choices in its 2009 Economic Freedom Index. Five English speaking — or at the very least English friendly — countries rank ahead of the United States (Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia, Ireland, and New Zealand). Right behind the U.S. is Canada, Denmark, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, and Chile. Should the U.S. continue its slouch towards socialism, all of these would be likely places for some of America’s best and brightest to land in the event of economic collapse.
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Adam Graham is a contributor at Race42012.com and host of the Truth and Hope Report podcast. His personal site is Adam's Blog.
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92 Comments
1. vivo:Costa Rica is a nice country for a short or a long vacation. Living there is just another matter for gringos. Some cultural differences can be exasperating. If you want to live there, go for an extended vacation first and see what you are up to. You’ll love it or you’ll hate it.
Mar 28, 2009 - 3:08 am 2. Roger Godby:While concern about the US national debt is warranted, Japan’s is 180% of GDP. Japan is not a banana republic and Japanese aren’t fleeing, although those retiring abroad are increasing because (1) it’s cheaper and (2) it’s now possible to receive the national pension at a foreign address.
This is in no way an excuse for Congressional waste, but 80% isn’t half of Japan. The world here has yet to end, but then Japanese national debt is largely held by Japanese themselves. Who else would buy 1% (or less) national bonds?
I expect mass inflation and some state bankruptices (I’m talking to you, California) will “solve” the un(der)funded public pension problem and result in greater local control of revenues. Perhaps more states, counties, and towns begin to ignore Washington to attract the productive
Emigration (enquires and actual follow-through) of native Britons is currently reportedly high. There are reasons that are driving emigration from Sweden and other lands as well..
Mar 28, 2009 - 3:48 am 3. david reid:nice article but cheer up americans will wake up to obama before it is to late they are doing so now.
Mar 28, 2009 - 3:58 am 4. MiamiMan:Iam from australia and things arnt mutch differnt, we have a clown in power called rudd he was just over your way and he is a lot like obama but i think the right is on the way back in a big way obama is a one term potus i hope.
I love this article, thanks Mr. Graham. Like it for several reasons.
The first, I have traveled extensively in Costa Rica and has many good friends there. As I speak Spanish, this is no problem to me. And yes, I have had the same impulse, to buy property there and keep it as a escape. In my last trip 3 years ago, I almost did this. If you look around for properties, still you can find land and real estate extremely cheap, but you must do it within the Tico market, in Spanish, staying away from the English publications that are tourist traps for American, Canadian, and German folks.
I like Costa Rica and the Ticos. This is probably the only country in Latin America were America and Americans are not used as scapegoats for their problem, nor are hated, but instead liked and admired. But then all the negatives of Costa Rica that you describe so well in the second part of your article are true, corruption, restriction to open businesses, high unemployment, and then some. Add to that a crime rate that is increasingly troublesome, which targets the properties of foreigners when they are absent (Many Americans come here to visit and return to find their properties robbed and vandalized unless they live a living caretaker).
On the other hand, American “expats” are common in many other places. For example, in a trip to Merida, Yucatan, 3 years ago, I found a thriving anti-Bush, liberal, American colony there.
I do not think America will lose its best and brightest to Costa Rica, there they get mainly the retirees. However, I fear we will lose many best and brightest to places like Ireland (already 10,000 Americans expats), Australia, and even Canada. Ireland offers the advantage of little minorities and little Islamism, thinks that tend to raise and are now bubbling (like a gas) under the Obama administration. Add to that the common Irish heritage found here, and it is the perfect storm if the government of Ireland were to decide it is to its advantage to drain brains in the US by attracting them with tax, jobs, and other incentives.
Finally, I agree that we must make a stand here (Join or Die), but just in case, a little refuge doesn’t hurt, in case those things that some people says apparently “jokingly”, like Chuck Norris stating that he may have to run for president of Texas, start to become reality, not a fart fetched possibility after all, as Americans, more and more, remember that tremendous phrase: “Don’t Tread on Me”
Mar 28, 2009 - 5:43 am 5. e:I wouldn’t expatriate, but I’d choose the Philippines if I did. There are plenty of small islands far enough out of the way to get one or a large chunk for yourself. Just take a boat to a nearby village if you need anything.
But hey, the US isn’t lost yet. Its still the freest and best place to live by a huge margin.
Mar 28, 2009 - 6:09 am 6. Bruce:Gad! but you’re so 1980’s.
Mar 28, 2009 - 6:42 am 7. Vaughn:Don’t you realize that the Cost Rico exiles began shuffling off to the Dominican Republic long ago?
Mexico became C.R., then C.R. became the D.R. as the ‘get away and find freedom’ place sometime in the 1990’s. Google it!
America may not lose its ‘best and brightest’, but it will definitely lose this 59 year old, retired Conservative. After selling my manufacturing business, 3 years ago, I am only waiting for my house to sell, and will leave for Mexico, with the possibility of Chile, on the horizon. While Mexico gets ‘mucho’ bad press, I can live there for half the cost of the U.S., and mostly, be left alone by the ‘corrupt’ government. The only difference in their corrupt government, and ours? Theirs extends further down the pecking order. So $20 bucks, occasionally for a speeding ticket is preferable to me, than listening to Sen. Dodd lie about his indiscretions.
Mar 28, 2009 - 6:44 am 8. elvis:“Don’t try to build a new country. Make this one work. It has for over four hundred years; and by the world’s standards, that’s hardly more than yesterday.”
If we all stood up to the powers that be like this……..
Mar 28, 2009 - 6:46 am 9. californiataxslave:We’d have our country back in no time!
How funny, I was recently thinking about doing exactly this, moving to Costa Rica. I guess the sad truth is, there is nowhere for a pro-freedom, pro-capitalism person to go. We are outnumbered, all countries are socialistic to some extent. The best you can do is…nothing, at least then you’re not propping up the system.
Mar 28, 2009 - 7:10 am 10. Another Chuck:Rats run. Even if they’re right they’re rats.
Mar 28, 2009 - 7:44 am 11. Nancy B.:Good riddance.
Mar 28, 2009 - 7:44 am 12. MiamiMan:7. Vaughn
Agree with you about Mexico. This is interesting. The “mucho” bad press there often does not apply to the countryside. Whether Yucatan, Chiapas, Veracruz, there is in Mexico’s small cities and towns a sense of respect and well being that is common to small rural communities in other parts of the world. Also, TV is more friendly and much less riddled by ads. There is also a strong cultural atmosphere in cities like Merida. Good luck!
In my case, Bulgaria is the choice. Underpopulated, I like there the out-of-the-way villages in the mountains, good air, good water, like a small hick town called Muhovo, not far from Sofia.
Mar 28, 2009 - 7:49 am 13. joe from Lowell:http://gallery.guide-bulgaria.com/SW/Sofia/Ihtiman/Muhovo/Gallery.aspx?3889=Village_of_Muhovo
Do it! Do it! Do it! Do it!
Jump! Jump!
Come on, everybody, let’s get a chant going: Jump! Jump! Jump! Jump!
I’ll help you pack your stuff.
Stay not upon your going, but go.
Buy bye!
Mar 28, 2009 - 7:53 am 14. Scy:Oh god PLEASE leave. Conservatives leaving America – a dream come true.
Mar 28, 2009 - 8:02 am 15. BackwardsBoy:Instead of leaving our home, why don’t we start voting intelligent, mature people into office that recognize American ideals such as individual freedom and limits to government power, and will uphold these values?
Mar 28, 2009 - 8:05 am 16. joe from Lowell:It’s not too late to purge the Pelosis, Franks, Dodds and Obamas from office. It will take time, patience, and a will to ignore the forces that will attack good people, but we can do it.
why don’t we start voting intelligent, mature people into office that recognize American ideals such as individual freedom and limits to government power, and will uphold these values?
Because you’re a little, itty, bitty, teeny, tiny little minority, geographically isolated in the poorest, most backwards parts of the nation, and the rest of us wouldn’t trust you to drive around in a DPW truck picking up dead cats from the pavement, much less hold the reins of power in the federal government.
Mar 28, 2009 - 8:33 am 17. Bob H:I believe Texas should seriously begin efforts to secede. The resources and infrastructure are there to exist apart from the U.S. and it can explode economically while the U.S. lerches towards Marxism. Doctors, for example, who reject ObamaCare can move their practices to Texas and treat all the Canadians and Americans who can’t be served in their own countries.
Of course, there would be some cost in starting a new country (currency, border security, military, etc.) but the freedom will be so worth it compared to the federal tyranny we suffer under today.
Mar 28, 2009 - 8:33 am 18. Wolla Dalbo:With the news out of Washington these days, I don’t see how anybody could be accused of overreacting or of being unduly, of being too alarmed.
When the future looks increasingly bleak, chaotic and dangerous, many Americans start thinking of finding a refuge, a retreat; some place to live that will be safe amidst the coming chaos. This is such a time, as Obama and Congress go completely mad, a heedless, hog-wild, gargantuan orgy of spending that will squander us and our children’s patrimony and their children’s too, destroy our capitalist economy, devalue our currency, and result in hyperinflation; creating so much debt, so much government ownership and control that we will, henceforward, be not a Capitalist but a Socialist country, with a Marxist-type “command economy,” in which the government owns, controls or regulates practically everything, and will, or tries to, control most aspects of our lives too.
“Mandatory” public service, creation of a permanent welfare class of 50% (up from the current, incredible, 38%) of our citizens who do not pay any federal taxes, but, instead, will now be given “tax credits” i.e. welfare checks—the old “bread and circuses” bribe to the mob, and the creation of a myriad of new or expanded public service organizations, the Marxist agitator’s favorite, “peoples organizations,” that together will make up Obama’s proposed “Civilian National Security Force,” all point towards tyranny, too. And, meanwhile, denied and ignored, everywhere the Jihad advances.
Since this is truly a “global economy” these days, the destruction of our economy will lead to even greater destruction for many other economies that are linked to ours. Thus, I expect that foreign countries that seem problematic as refuges now will only have those problems intensified if we go down. One line of reasoning argues that countries that do not have an extremely high standard of living now would have the least height to fall from and might, therefore, have a less hard time of it.
Australia and New Zealand may be so far off the beaten track geographically and self-sufficient enough in terms of their economies that they may escape much of the disaster to come, Canada has its own problems, which I would expect will get much worse, considering how closely their economy is entwined with ours. Mexico is rapidly descending into violence, chaos and, likely, war, which will likely spill across our border. The Caribbean may be a possibility, but those small, mostly island nations cannot absorb tremendous numbers of refugees nor–absent tourism—do they have strong, productive economies. Europe is in a demographic death spiral and is fast becoming Eurabia, Central and South America have their own instabilities and problems with dictatorships, Japan is in decline, is an extraordinarily conservative and insular country and, I would imagine, would not be very welcoming to Americans trying to hunker down there. The rest of the countries of Asia are, I would think, not a good place to look for refuge either, and Africa is totally out of the question. And everywhere the Jihad advances.
Thus, staying here in America, but moving to more remote parts of the country and trying to, as much as possible, “get off the grid” and off the government’s radar screen, seems to me to be the best alternative; it has been done before. Back to the country and small towns, retreat to West Virginia, retreat to the heartland states, retreat to survivalist territory in Idaho and thereabouts, retreat to the Southwest, retreat deep into the Rockies, and get out of states, like California, that have the same disease as Washington.
The survival skills that enabled our ancestors in America’s past to live off the land and to be self sufficient, that body of extensive knowledge, skills and techniques and the toughness of mind, the mind set necessary to use them successfully, the ability to work incredibly hard at physical labor, are, I fear, in very short supply these days; that is a major problem, and a lot of people are going to die if we need to reacquire these skill and mindsets. Another major problem I foresee is that our widespread transportation infrastructure and today’s surveillance technology will make “getting off the grid,” finding a remote or safe enough place and, then, successfully hiding, much more difficult that it was in the past.
I am also seeing the first hints that some state governors are getting increasingly alarmed by the insanity at the federal level, and may start to make efforts to more or less disconnect from Washington and go it on their own; if things get really bad down the road, some form of de facto secession is not impossible.
Mar 28, 2009 - 8:47 am 19. MiamiMan:15. BackwardsBoy
You’re correct. That’s the idea. But you are talking like a conservative, normal guy, which I am sure you are.
But last elections were not normal, nor conservative, not even legal in many instances. The influence of the dregs of society is now felt like never before, there is a pestilential emanation that confounds the senses.
Do you believe that the last election in Ohio was legal? The only reason that that did not explode like an atom bomb, was that the margin of votes between the 2 candidates was wide enough for people to assume that Obama would have won notwithstanding the fact that ACORN committed blatant voter fraud all over, inside by busing people and paying them, from outside by bringing liberal students from other states. And this under the “watchful” eyes of the media.
Well, Obama is planning to make that seems like child’s play by allocating large funds to ACORN and similar community-organizing outfits through the last stimulus package that no one read. They are even talking about volunteers with uniforms, these are familiar things that bring back memories of recent and unfortunate historical events.
Some people get discouraged.
Mar 28, 2009 - 8:47 am 20. Chuck Pelto:TO: another chuck, et al.
RE: Indeed
As the man I consider THE Father of the American Revolution put it, so many years ago….
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Mar 28, 2009 - 8:59 am 21. FLMom:[History repeats itself....]
This conservative says if you would rather run than fight, go! Just go! Odds are pretty good that if you stayed you would do nothing but sit around complaining, anyway.
Here in Florida we are accustomed to discontented New Yorkers moving down here. Most aren’t interested in contributing anything other than a never ending tirade of complaints. Somehow I doubt they are missed in New York and if they wanted to move on to another country I would celebrate.
Many of us will put our energy into taking back the House of Representatives in 2010. This is crucial to our country’s future.
If you’re not up to the fight, by all means leave!
Battles can be won with fewer, but more motivated fighters willing to get out there with a clear compelling message. We can work more effectively without a bunch of whining complainers sabotaging every effort.
Mar 28, 2009 - 9:20 am 22. goy:Conservatives – if there really are any seriously considering this sort of move – are way behind the curve here. The Anti-Bush crowd got a jump on this years ago.
Go here and scroll down to hear the story of two “reformed” government bureaucrats (i.e., they lived off the taxpayers most of their lives) who relocated to Costa Rica years ago. You may need to register (free) to view the video near the bottom.
Here’s the salient bit from David Murray, starting at 00:02:07 -
Poor David – ye of little faith. You and your “family” (Mr. Cat) are going to miss out on all the wonderful socialist goodies now!
Costa Rica has pretty rampant violent car theft / petty theft / home invasion problems. Family dogs are regularly poisoned to facilitate daytime break-ins. Crime is also growing recently due to encroaching drug trafficking and there’s increasing tension from the north (Nicaragua – nice regional neighbor to have… not). Much of this is suppressed by their media so as not to adversely affect tourism, but it’s there. Note that many of the newer, modern single-family homes in Costa Rica (the ones that appeal to us gringos) are built on gated, high-fenced compounds and/or have security bars on the doors and windows.
Move to Costa Rica to live in a prison with a bunch of expatriate Anti-Bush hypocrites like the Murrays as neighbors?? I’ll pass, thanks.
An Independent Republic of Texas has far more appeal.
Mar 28, 2009 - 9:27 am 23. Canid Vulgaris:Adam Graham:
“Right behind the U.S. is Canada, Denmark, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, and Chile. Should the U.S. continue its slouch towards socialism, all of these would be likely places for some of America’s best and brightest to land in the event of economic collapse.”
The ignorance is this statement is just astounding. All of the countries listed (with the possible excpetion of Chile, which has a social democratic gov’t) have far more developed welfare states than the US. Canada has universal health care, the UK has NHS, and Denmark . . . thoroughly socially democratic! Is Adam Graham really saying that the better choice is for our “best and brightest” to flee to are those countries with more welfare and social democracy?
This is a fine illustration of the complete failure of American coservatism and laissez-faire ideology. History has spoken and social democracy appears to be the winner.
Mar 28, 2009 - 9:36 am 24. Chup:As a 47-year-old, white, native-West Texan liberal man, I offer every “conservative” who is thinking of leaving our shores a hearty “bon voyage!”
Hell, if you promise to never, ever, ever, come back, I’ll even pitch in to help you go. Nothing has destroyed our country faster than the “me-first and only” attitude of the supposed conservatives of the past thirty years.
And now that they’ve lost some of their power, the incessant whining has gotten really old. They like to think of themselves as big, strong, silent, tough guys, but after living among them all my life, I’ve always known better. I’m glad to see them now flapping their whiny yaps for everyone to see what they really are made of.
Grow up or get out, boys. Sadly, I don’t think they’re tough enough to do either one.
Mar 28, 2009 - 9:46 am 25. Chup:Bye bye, Vaughn — I’d say we’ll miss you, but you know that I’d be lying.
If you want to blame someone for your problems, you should look no further than one of your “conservative” guys — Phil Gramm. He and his wife, Wendy, screwed us over bad with the CFT legislation which led to unregulated CDS and CDO trades and his work overturning the Glass-Stegall Act destroyed the banking system. Why aren’t you folks upset with the arsonists who set the world on fire?
Mar 28, 2009 - 9:53 am 26. Geez Louise:FIGHT OR FLIGHT, in this case depends where you are in your life cycle. Young, full of piss and vinegar, well that’s one thing, but 65ish, tired/retired, well that’s another thing. Do those who have paid their dues now want to stand by and watch the Train Wreck, or do they take the Bus outta town, and let others survey the damage and attempt to clean up the mess.
The Nation, the Media & the World voted this bunch in, and that same Awesome Threesome is now basking in the Tremendous Power resulting from winning the election. (”We Won!”)They ain’t gonna give it up. Pretty hard to fight against that when they have the Press and the Guns (Police/Military) to savage & destroy you should you disagree.
So, as in the not-too-distant past, people fled countries where One Party ruled, and not only was dissent not allowed, but was cause for persecution, incarceration or worse. Those who could—Got Out.
Mar 28, 2009 - 10:00 am 27. Shygetz:I’m with Chup and others…bon voyage, let me hold the door for you, and we can’t miss you if you don’t go away. Tell me when you get there and I’ll FedEx you a gift basket.
Mar 28, 2009 - 10:26 am 28. Delia:I love my Country but I don’t like the current people ‘in charge’ of it.
We shouldn’t take too lightly what the Cretin in Chief and his Merry Men are doing but we shouldn’t fold and cave to this B.S. either. I’m mad as hell but I certainly don’t want to give up on the land many of our ancestors have fought and died for.
We can steer this ship around or wait like the rest of the zombies until the giant iceberg hits and only a few life-boats can save but a few ‘elites’.
Mar 28, 2009 - 10:30 am 29. Phoenician in a time of Romans:Australia and New Zealand may be so far off the beaten track geographically and self-sufficient enough in terms of their economies that they may escape much of the disaster to come,
We don’t want American conservatives, thank you.
Go to Argentina or Saudi Arabia or Kazakhstan instead. You’re not welcome in the rest of the West after cheerleading Bush for eight years.
Mar 28, 2009 - 10:38 am 30. gcblues:for sale, beautiful quinta, 400 yards from the beach in Playas del Coco, Guanacoste Costa Rica. 7000ms, house, teak throughout, 238ms
i sold most everything in the states, closed my business and left bozoville USA at 47. the demopublicans seeming to have merged in dysfunction, the land of the free, free no more.
any country not your own will be frustrating. however, that should not stop you. have 6 years here. i will sell here as well. move on. the laws, tariffs,Bulgarian like state monopoly’s are simply too much. crime and corruption? no problem, i do not do stupid stuff, and corruption is a sign that government functions. you can buy anything.
most people i know, not scientific, going to panama or nicaragua. i love nicaragua. my choice to ignore the communists and see the rules and regs are fewer, taxes are lower, culture richer, more educated people, more history etc. as an expat, you are never really totally a member of the host body country, you are more like a calouse, a pain to your host, but a sign that at least you are working.
Mar 28, 2009 - 10:47 am 31. sneaker:that’s good enough for me. the racism here, anti gringo baloney etc, is nothing compare to the animal farm central planners have created in the USA. pass a few more laws, taxes, build walls tariffs, commit suicide, have at it. let the brain and money drain continue.
As a liberal I say….. GOODBYE! Please don’t let the door hit you on the way out! Good riddance to bad rubbish! It is a new day here in America and the people are taking their country back! America has tried the failed conservative policies for the last 30 years and look what we got in return. ZERO. Now it is time for liberal ideas to get a chance. We can’t do worse than the last guys and Obama will lead us into a new American century. So please by all means go to Costa Rica or anywhere else you want to try your free market ways and your religions and your bigotry and destroy somebody else’s country. Just be sure to go.
Mar 28, 2009 - 11:01 am 32. Sara123:Retired Americans are going to have to find a place to live that is not as expensive and/or criminal as the US after losing their private retirement accounts and facing the mess of social security and the medical system totally crashing with Obama’s economy. The eldery of this generation will be villanized and serve the prey to Acorn’s ever growing thug underclass “voters” and criminals.
It does not matter if you are liberal or conservative, you are not going to be able to survive in the US on a retirement income and social breakdown here. Relocating won’t be a quest for freedom – it will be a quest to survive in Obama’s Africanized, Marxist US. Look at it as moving from the crime and Marxist infested cities as we did in the 60’s. Patriotism is not a suicide pact and Americans are not a cult.
Mar 28, 2009 - 11:02 am 33. Old Soldier:I thought all the liberals were moving to Europe or Canada when Bush was elected then re-elected. Didn’t happen unfortunately and neither will an exodous of conservatives.
Industries are going to leave to U.S., however, and some of the experts are going with them regardless of political affiliation. Manufacturing is pretty well dead here – the Obama EPA, taxes, and cap & trade will take care of the rest. Investment banking was already dying here for the same reasons – taxes and regulations – now those people are on their way to greener pastures (most were liberals judging by their political contributions). Energy exploration, medical / drug research, hi-tech: farewell.
Mar 28, 2009 - 11:03 am 34. Wolla Dalbo:Geeze Louise—I think that one thing Obama does not have is the respect and true loyalty of the military—it was indicative of the level of respect and gratitude Obama & Co. have for the service and sacrifice of members of our military, when they floated the proposal a week or two ago that military personnel should have to use their own private insurance to pay for treatment of their service connected injuries and illnesses.
I believe there is no love lost there, and, as others have pointed out before, members of our military swear an oath to protect and defend the Constitution, not Obama or his Presidency; they take no oath of personal loyalty to our up and coming Hopey-Changey, Christ-Like, “Maximum Leader,” as members of Hitler’s SS did to the Fuhrer.
I’m assuming that Obama is trying to get around this problem by creating a civilian power base independent of the military, the mass or “people’s organizations” so beloved of Marxists. To take one example, ACORN-tight with Obama and his far left agenda—which is the reason for Obama and the Democrats persistent efforts to give ACORN hundreds of millions in funding, and, now, power within our government—proposing, just the other day, that the vote-fixing ACORN “help” in the hiring of 1.4 million Census enumerators, thus, giving ACORN potential influence on the Census counts, which are used to determine the creation, elimination, and shape of congressional districts.
Organizations like Obama’s proposed gigantic -–“as large, as well-funded as our military”–“Civilian National Security Force,” that the Democrats GIVE Act—already quickly rammed through Congress in differing House and Senate versions–will probably fill up with people doing their “mandatory” public service, many of them likely to be people who pay no federal taxes and are newly entitled–thanks to Obama–to “tax credits” i.e. welfare checks provided by the Obama administration, people who will be dependent on his programs and want them to continue, people who, many of them, will be personally grateful to Obama for the handouts they get, people with a lot of free time on their hands, since many of them don’t work; thus a pool of his partisans and people he can indoctrinate, his own troops, and power that could be very useful for a lot of different “things” Obama might want to do in the future.
Mar 28, 2009 - 11:22 am 35. Will:Those who don’t like it get out,those who do, stay and fight to keep it. My ancesters came here for the same reasons our government is forcing on us now. Don’t let this be the end friends.
Mar 28, 2009 - 11:39 am 36. Andrea:Yes, Canada, Denmark, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, etc. are all more socialist than we are over all; that is why they are BEHIND us in the economic freedom ranks that Adam Graham references. I believe his reasoning is based on that the best and brightest don’t always make the brightest decision, and if things get really bad here, such places could either look better at the moment, or actually numerically end up ahead of us.
Adam is an analyst. He writes what he thinks people would realistically do if things continue to go south, not what he believes the best choice would be. If you read the whole article, the over all tone is very much against jumping ship at all. He is hardly suggesting good places for Conservatives to move to! There is no other place like America; if we fall, freedom itself falls. It would be proof to a world that followed our lead into trying a failed experiment one more time that the people are unfit to govern themselves over the long haul and revert to the old ways of monarches ruling with an iron fist. The very notion of the public servant, the greatest among us being the servant of all, by the way, came directly from the lips of Jesus. Our founder’s war cry was, “No King but King Jesus!” Without Christ, democratic and republican forms of government fail every time. If America falls, it will be because she forgot her King.
Mar 28, 2009 - 11:54 am 37. MiamiMan:Geez Louise, you sure have lots of American common sense.
For all those with the bravado, may be you voted for Obama after all. Tell me what you boast about, I’ll tell you what you lack. Get up and do somepin’
To FLMom, God bless your heart, but what Florida are you talking about? The one I know is changing by the day. Are you referring to the central corridor hinging around Orlando now filling with Puerto Ricans and other non-Cuban Hispanics that some experts say gave this last election in Florida, usually a blue state, to Obama? Or the mostly Cuban-American republicans in Miami-Dade? Or are you may be talking about the rural area south of Jacksonville, now famous with the disappearance of poor little Haleigh, made famous by Geraldo and Greta and showing the nation the type of crystal meth white trash inhabiting this God-forsaken, trailer-ridden, place? Or is it may the Panhandle, where you can still get a reasonable breakfast of grits and fried mullets? May be Miami Beach with them orthodox Jews walking with beards payes and yarmulkes in their way to the synagogue?
Na, may be you were, after all, sipping a Daiquiri in Key West at the Sloppy Joe’s.
Mar 28, 2009 - 11:59 am 38. MiamiMan:Gcblues…
Just a correction, you say Guanacaste, not Guanacoste, been there…Hey, I like your sense of citizen of the world, kinda Rick Blaine (Bogart) in Casablanca, you just have to find your Captain Renault in the corrupt government (Claude Rains). Hey, I used to visit San Jose often in the 1990s to stop by the bar “Key Largo” with all them pictures of Boggie and Lauren Bacall on the walls, ha, ha, you sure know why.
Another correction: “Bulgarian like state monopoly’s are simply too much”, not necessarily my friend, I know Bulgaria very well, Zdravki! Leaving for there in couple of months again, good thing there the government is so inept, that you can stay below the radar level without much effort. You also never have to go to court like in Miama cause’ all traffic violations are solved right then and there with the police, they usually ask for 100 Levs, but I always play the dumb gringo and negotiate down to 20 Levs, which is like 10 bucks here, imagine how much you save. I invite you to come down and seep some Rakia with cucumber, and live off the land and them goats in Muhovo, no politics, no Chimpy, and yes you can get connected to the Internet there.
Mar 28, 2009 - 12:33 pm 39. Meryl:Articles like this depress me because apparently the writers think they are needed.
I am 64 years old. I have known for at least 50 of those years that this country is one of a kind and completely irreplaceable. Is our older population really so ignorant that this kind of “inspirational man-the-dikes” talk is appropriate?
Are there actually significant numbers of readers of Pajamas Media who are just figuring this out now?….who have been entertaining thoughts about going somewhere “peaceful and safe”?
If THIS (PJM) portion of the reading public actually has a market % that is just now waking up, that really, truly gives me the sense that it is over, and that the first thing I’m going to have to do in heaven is apologize to my Dad and older brother (career Navy) for not making it last.
Mar 28, 2009 - 12:37 pm 40. FLMom:I didn’t say a word about the Cubans or the Porto Ricans. I don’t know any that begin every single conversation with “where I come from they know how to do things right”. To those that don’t like the way things are, and only contribute by complaining, by all means leave.
And if you look at the Florida poll results, Obama carried the traditionally Democrat areas with about the same numbers as Carry in 04. McCain lost Florida because too many in traditionally Republican areas decided to sit out the election. Lack of message, anger that he suspended his campaign to go back to Washington and cheerlead the bailout, I don’t know. For whatever reason they chose not to vote and by choosing not to be part of the process they helped to give us Obama. If they are unhappy now and want to leave, suits me just fine.
Look at the so-called conservatives that used their energy to trash Sarah Palin. What did they contribute? If they want to relocate, I won’t stand in their way.
Mar 28, 2009 - 12:44 pm 41. MiamiMan:Meryl, no please, don’t make me cry. Seriously, now.
The US is indeed one of a kind, but nothing is irreplaceable though. That much history teaches us. But if replaceable or changeable, what will it be? One thing for sure nobody wants is the Islamic Caliphate proposed by Osama Bin Laden and other raghead loonies. Even Obama appears to agree on this one, according to his latest speech when he mentioned 9/11 like 10 times and the word “terrorists” at least as many times also.
Problem is, Islamism against this great country is moving fast, and soon it will be like in Londonistan, with thousands of women with Burkas with what that brings. Something we can do is to contribute to Dave Gaubatz’s organization, he needs money and is about to embark on a 50-state investigation, one investigation per state, of Islamic organizations that vie against US and Israel and polarize children right here. Check it out.
Mar 28, 2009 - 12:57 pm 42. Delia:http://dgaubatz.blogspot.com/
Now, don’t tell me I ain’t doing nothin’
39. Meryl,
Aww, hon. Buck up! There are plenty of us who have uncles, fathers and grandfathers who put their lives on the line for this country who refuse to give up on her through the tough times. How whimpy is THAT huh?
“36. Andrea” explained Adam’s point which apparently quite a few readers here missed entirely and that is that we NEED TO STAY and right what is wrong or in his exact words:
“Don’t try to build a new country. Make this one work. It has for over four hundred years; and by the world’s standards, that’s hardly more than yesterday.”
-And, an AMEN.
Mar 28, 2009 - 12:58 pm 43. gcblues:m man
you are correct, i am wrong re: Guanacaste. hell, i have a home there. que estupido yo.
however, i suggest with more time you would agree more with the Bulgarian analogy. every fine i have paid here as been on the spot, including building, water and environmental permits, numerous traffic “fines”. Despite with the TLC all services are controlled by the state. indeed in a few years, Costa Rica will be worse than Bulgaria, it will be as bad as the obama states
Mar 28, 2009 - 1:08 pm 44. COL.SEBASTIAN MORAN:FL MOM
Mar 28, 2009 - 1:10 pm 45. Duane Phinney:#21
Darling, your second paragraph summed up the South Florida experience flawlessly. The “New York state of mind” has ruined this beautiful area for those of us who still love it. I, for one, would rejoice at seeing a mass exodus of New York lemmings heading for the banana republic hinterlands…’ wouldn’t mind seeing quite a few of the “press 2 for spanish” crowd heading out, as well.
S.M.
“Oh god PLEASE leave. Conservatives leaving America – a dream come true.”
Who would be left to pay the bills?
Mar 28, 2009 - 1:22 pm 46. Bilgeman:Oh, come now, folks.
Let’s think out of the box, here.
Sing it with me:
“Ohhhhh, I wish I was in the land of cotton,
old times there are not forgotten,
Look away!
Look away!
Look away…Dixieland.”
Just this time around we can be a little more inclusive to decent folks of all stripes who just want to earn their bread, pay their way, own their property, and be left the hell alone unless it’s absolutely unavoidable.
Let those who love socialism pay the bills for the benefits they vote themselves.
Mar 28, 2009 - 1:53 pm 47. Eric:Sneaker if you think the last 30 years have been some kind of failure then you must be under 30. Do you think Reagan won two massive landslides because the public didn’t like his policies? Reagan set in motion the largets economic expansion in our history. And for all the credit your Libs want to give to Clinton you need to keep in mind that 6 of his 8 years he had a GOP Congress and it is Congress that writes the bills the president signs. So much of Clinton’s credit really belongs to Newt gingrich and his fellow GOP House and Senate members. You may like what Obama is doing but almost all of it is blatantly unconstitutional and socialist. Socialism never works and we will all be poorer because of it.
Mar 28, 2009 - 1:54 pm 48. Meryl:Should have made it clearer: I’m insulted that Mr. Graham thinks that I need him to tell me that “…America is irreplaceable and worth fighting for.”
You statists who think that we conservatives WOULD ever leave this precious country to you….dream on, fools. We are going to be your worst nightmares for years to come.
And like someone else pointed out, who would pay the bills if we all left?
Mar 28, 2009 - 2:15 pm 49. MiamiMan:I’m back. Was doing the P90X, highly recommended, can shed 10 lbs/month and get fit.
http://www.beachbody.com/product/fitness_programs/best_sellers/p90x.do
Heck, if you wanna sign, please email me at pejeal@yahoo.com first cause’ I get a cut from Beachbody.
Hey gtblue, I know Costa Rica ain’t going in the right direction, but…who is after all?
May be Pitcairn Island, or better Robinson Crusoe Island in Juan Fernandez off Chile, or even the island of Chiloe. No minorities, no ragheads.
Mar 28, 2009 - 2:46 pm 50. Keith:The solution is certainly not moving from the US but dividing the country between conservatives and liberals. Let the conservatives take the East coast and the liberals the West. Or maybe visa versa. Or split it up north to south.
People could decide which part they want to live in and then create their own nirvanas. We have the most highly mobile society in the world. Let’s take it to the next step.
Mar 28, 2009 - 3:04 pm 51. Chuck Pelto:TO: Bilgeman
RE: Sakes!
“Look away…Dixieland.”” — Bilgeman
Are you off-key….
….or do I need another mint julip?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Mar 28, 2009 - 3:52 pm 52. sneaker:Eric, who ever said Clinton was perfect? He is just as much to blame for this economy as Bush is. But if you think the common American worker is somehow better off today than he was before Regean, then I would like to have a hit of what you are smoking.
But I will say that your comment was one of the most lucid ones on this board because all the rest sound like loons talking about moving to islands, holing up in forests, living of the fat of the land and such like this is some sort of action movie. LOL. Right.
It is good for a laugh though.
Mar 28, 2009 - 3:58 pm 53. DN:The article, and many sentiments in the comments, about staying and fighting for this fantasy America, that no longer exists, and which 45% of “Americans” positively hate, is …well, nice, but lets be sensible here. There comes a point when throwing good money (or effort, or sentiment) after bad no longer makes any kind of sense. Obamass’ presidency may very well be that kind of point0 of no return for the good al’ US of A.
Mar 28, 2009 - 4:28 pm 54. BlueBoy:OTOH, the article is right, moving to Costa Rica or some other Third World s#@!thole is not an answer.
But consider this, while some 62 million Americans voted against Obamass, almost 70 voted for him and his socialist nightmare. Obamass did not even lie about any of this. All those who voted for him WANT to change America into a socialist hellhole. And as long as they do, and commited conservatives are in the minority there is not much they can do about it.
But Canada has only 30 million people, conservative Alberta (with all that oil resources) has three and half million people. An influx of 5 (or 10) million conservative, productive, enterpreneurial Americans, would not only make Alberta (and Canada) more productive, enterpreneurial; but would alter the politics of the country for two generation or more.
Canada is an enourmous country, with just about every single natural resource imaginable. What it lacks is people in general (one tenth of population of USA on a land area 10% larger), and it has an unhealthy balance of conservatives versus liberals (just like USA). Changing that would make it a great country. A decade ago some libertarians in US came up with an idead to move en masse to a single state, change its political demographics, make a better life for themselves and use it as a “showcase” of libertarian ideas. Having millions of conservative Americans move to Canada (and Alberta would be a good start, because it is already more conservative by far than any other province) would be a similar idea on a grander scale.
Conservatives leaving America? Please don’t tease us like that.
Mar 28, 2009 - 4:50 pm 55. Wolla Dalbo:An appropriate quote from Daniel Webster:
“There is no nation on earth powerful enough to accomplish our overthrow. Our destruction, should it come at all, will be from another quarter. From the inattention of the people to the concerns of their government, from their carelessness and negligence. I must confess that I do apprehend some danger. I fear that they may place too implicit a confidence in their public servants and fail properly to scrutinize their conduct; that in this way they may be made the dupes of designing men and become the instruments of their own undoing.”
“Hold on, my friends, to the Constitution and to the Republic for which it stands. Miracles do not cluster, and what has happened once in 6000 years, may not happen again. Hold on to the Constitution, for if the American Constitution should fail, there will be anarchy throughout the world.”
Mar 28, 2009 - 4:54 pm 56. sneaker:DN, by all means, GO FOR IT!! The vast rugged domain known as Alberta beckons you! You and the 10 million or so real conservatives and libertarians are more than welcome to carve out of Canada a Randian paradise for the world to envy. Take your productivity, your entrepreneurial spirit, your… well whatever it is you have and leave us poor socialists behind to fight for the scraps. That will show us how is right for once and for all.
Mar 28, 2009 - 5:17 pm 57. aramkr:Nothing cures the desire for socialism like a good dose of it. Once we get the crap of this administration and congress off the bottom of our shoes, things will get back to normal. If not, I say we all go to New Zealand. If enough of us go there we could turn whatever is wrong with the place around in no time.
Mar 28, 2009 - 5:27 pm 58. Delia:Fighting for your country [especially if it has been the best country in the world for quite a good while] IS worth staying and fighting for imho.
To think one scumbag and his liberal cronies can bring us to our knees is a sad, sad statement for our country and to all the countries who look up to us as ‘the example’ of freedom and progress.
Mar 28, 2009 - 5:59 pm 59. Jerry:I am shocked by those who want to leave America and more shocked by the glee of those willing to see them go. It is too soon to give up on America – conservative or liberal (or socialist). If one group “gets its way,” then the new balance will destroy our noble experiment.
Our misconception about how the world works is so monstrously incorrect that we will cause our own demise in America and, because we are so interconnected today, of the entire world.
Please allow me to quote quote Nassim Nicholas Taleb, author of “The Black Swan.”
“…So I disagree with the followers of Marx and those of Adam Smith: the reason free markets work is because they allow people to be lucky, thanks to aggresive trial and error, not by giving rewards or ‘incentives’ for skill. The strategy is, then, to tinker as much as possible to try to collect as many Black Swan opportunities as possible.” (Taleb, p.xxi)
If the element of opportunity to just fall over a new this or that is going to be limited; if government creates entropy – where everyone is at the same energy (wealth) level, nothing will move except in terms of Brownian (random) motion. The “end of the boom and bust cycle” as President Obama has promised will relieve us of the ability to self-correct.
Again, and most emphatically, Liberals and Conservatives are not clear in their thinking. Their goals can never be met – of either group. The best that we humans can hope for is enough flexibility to change quickly when things go awfully wrong. Neither Conservatives (by leaving America) or Liberals (by waving good-bye) really want the cost that “winning” will incur. Believing otherwise is an illusion that borders on the psychotic.
Mar 28, 2009 - 6:15 pm 60. RFS:The sheer amount of stupid in this thread is stunning. From people complaining about ACORN, Marxism (as if they knew what it meant), and the supposed welfare state. Please keep repeating this moronic drivel to anyone who will listen. You are doing a wonderful job marginalizing your party and increasing the ranks in the Democratic Party!!
What I think is funniest, is that you are all blaming the guy in office for 2 months, and ignoring the moron-in-chief who drove us into this mess. Its like a Republican version of “beer goggles”.
The poor poor Republicans. Their tears are so sweet, and delicious
This is going to be an awesome and thoroughly enjoyable 8 years.
Mar 28, 2009 - 6:24 pm 61. e:52. sneaker:But if you think the common American worker is somehow better off today than he was before Regean, then I would like to have a hit of what you are smoking.
Take some, its called reality. A little bitter, but the best stuff.
Even if you don’t count the economic problems inherited from Carter, life has improved dramatically from the 1980s. People spend an all time minimum percentage of income on food, clothing and other essentials. Not to mention mortgage interest rates are single digit. And what about all of those technological advancements that make your life so great?
Even in a recession, you are living better than any other people have in the world.
Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.
Mar 28, 2009 - 7:20 pm 62. Delia:60. RFS,
What I think is pathetic is that you don’t know your politics enough to know that the ‘president’ is not in control of Congress [house of representatives and the senate].
You’ve [libtards] been in charge of Congress since January 2007 and THAT is when the proverbial caca hit the fan.
You Fannie/Freddie douchetards need to own your own crap. The Ponzi schemes are piling up and nobody wants to be a taker.
Mar 28, 2009 - 7:47 pm 63. RFS:62 Delia
Given the number of references to Obama being the source of the problem, it seems I was responding correctly to them. But if you want a strawman to cry at, I’m sure you’ll have no problems finding something to whine about in this post, its part and parcel of being a Republican. Note that I did not have to resort to some party name to make a point, try it sometime
Mar 28, 2009 - 9:03 pm 64. Bilgeman:#51 Chuck Pelto:
“Are you off-key….
….or do I need another mint julip?”
Mmmm, could be. If’n you WANT another mint julep, Cunnel, then I am most certainly off-key, suh.
Either way…I’m fixin’ on staying right where I am.
Done seen the world, there’s some nice enough places, but most of it is a sh+t hole, and certainly not a place I’d care to raise a young ‘un.
This joint doesn’t suck near bad enough yet to run me out, but I’m finding the idea of “rebranding” parts of it more and more appealing.
Confederates were Americans, too.
I hope I’m wrong, but perhaps in order to live as Americans in America, we can no longer abide living under the Federal yoke of Washington.
So rather than removing ourselves from our own country, we remove our country from the government,and those forces which have usurped it.
They can keep the erstwhile servant that they worship…and its worthless paper currency.
We’ll take the territory.
Mar 28, 2009 - 10:04 pm 65. Richard Cook:For the people that want to jump ship: My family had a old fashioned term for you; You’ve got no sticktoittiveness.
Mar 28, 2009 - 10:28 pm 66. joeblough:There may or may not be acceptable safe havens on an individual basis … but as a country, as a place to set down a stake, raise a flag and establish arational community of free men? On that I’m not so sure that the world hasn’t run out of free space. Just not sure is all.
The fact is that the savage mob is on the rise world-wide.
It may work out better to make a stand here in the US. At least we have a head start here — not to mention plenty of munitions and supplies.
Hard to say. Those who love America and freedom are rather scattered and disorganized just at the moment. Were that not the case I’d figure that stay-and-fight was a sure bet. Then again, all it takes is a “tiny minority of extremists” to move the world. ;->
The one thing that the cause of freedom has going for it here at home is the fact that the victim mentality is still not the majority mind-set.
The suffering that B.O. is about to arrange may be all it takes to solidify a meaningful pro-freedom push.
What I mean is, for example, the cities and neighborhoods that the left has successfully decimated, such as Detroit, had populations that were already largely inculcated with a victim’s outlook on life. So there was no backlash from the public. Much of the country is still too self respecting to go for that kind of crap.
We’ll see.
The UK pretty much did itself in after WWII. It didn’t really have to.
We’ll see which way the US goes in the next four years.
This Obama bastard hasn’t even fully bared his fangs yet.
Mar 28, 2009 - 10:55 pm 67. newton:I’m not leaving. Sure, I’d love to live in other parts of the world. But this is Home. I am not leaving!
I’d rather fight to the death or destitution than to leave this fine nation to be run by the scum of the earth. You know – “life, fortune, sacred honor” – all of that…
(And for those who don’t know it, those three concepts are written in the Declaration of Independence.)
Mar 28, 2009 - 11:07 pm 68. rastabob:It’s amazing to hear all the far-right prattle on about “freedom and the american way” being lost under the Obama presidency – while standing back and watching and applauding the Bush Cabal rape and pillage America the last 8 years – Please leave and let the grownups clean up your mess! Or go to a tea party or your clan rally – whatever, just leave!
Mar 29, 2009 - 5:50 am 69. californiataxslave:I have to laugh at all of you who want to “stay and fight”. A majority voted for Obama. Here in Los Angeles, a majority votes yes on virtually every tax increase. They repeatedly vote in statists. Ron Paul got, what, 5% of the vote? The country wants socialism and it is socialism that they will get.
Mar 29, 2009 - 7:26 am 70. Bilgeman:#68 rastabob:
“It’s amazing to hear all the far-right prattle on about “freedom and the american way” being lost under the Obama presidency”
The administration of the fellow who claims to have born in Hawaii is simply the capstone of a movement that started long ago, friend.
That’s what they REALLY meant when they were babbling on about his “Transformative Presidency”
It certainly wasn’t about race, since you saw fit to do the same old song and dance,(alluding to “clan rallies” and such)…all that bunk was for the feeble-minded white suckers.
The “Transformative”-ness is all in the numbers, chummie.
The debt and what it’s buying.
Aside from the Alleged Hawaiian’s spending habits, what has really changed from that “Rapist and Pillager-in-Chief” of the last 8 years?
We’re STILL in Iraq,
Mar 29, 2009 - 8:48 am 71. Vaughn:Guantanamo is STILL open,
We’re STILL subsidizing Big Business,
and the PATRIOT Act is STILL the Law of the Land.
#17 Bob H,
Mar 29, 2009 - 9:03 am 72. Sapwolf:I think you are right, Texas is our possible salvation. A secession movement there would certainly keep me here, or there. Just wait until Obama adds 250000 more ‘community organizers’ to the welfare system, and see what chance we have to regain any political power. The left now can add ‘voters’ to the Federal dole, faster than ever.
Forget all this bs about leaving the country.
Real Americans will do one of two things:
1) Secede from the union, maybe even along red/blue state lines, or
2) Fight hard to make the GOP a strong party against the government and then take Congress back and the Presidency. Then dismantle the socialist mess.
Those are the choices. I say we work on 2) with 100% unity, focus and determination and if all hell breaks loose, we go to 1) and trigger a RedStateRebellion.
Mar 29, 2009 - 10:31 am 73. Sapwolf:Just hold a Constitutional Convention and ask the states if they wish to stay in the union. Split the country along RED/BLUE state lines, but do it relatively in peace.
The blue states of the northeast, leftcoast, upper midwest, plus Hawaii can stay in the existing union.
The red states can leave the union and form a new red republic.
I think this would be best as each ideological side would get more of what they want. It would lead to a better future for both sides.
Sending our self-reliant entrepreneurial types to Alberta would be interesting too.
My little brother who is familiar with Mexico as I am with Southeast Michigan said they should let in 5 million chinese and sit back and watch it grow.
Mar 29, 2009 - 10:50 am 74. Rubicon:In the end, leaving will not be the ultimate option. However, revolution will be & the ending of power to mobs who seek freebies.
Mar 29, 2009 - 11:50 am 75. John Galt:Some say, conservatives are in the minority. Wanna bet?
If it came down to rights, and based on the plans of Obama & his minions to seize our rights far beyond anything you ever thought Bush would, you will see armed conflict. And I suspect most of the military are with us.
So, perhaps those basking in the sunlight liberals should think again. Remember, conservatives already know how to shoot.
Costa Rica? I was thinknig Chile myself (despite a socialist chick running the place). Interesting article, but as a long time conservative who has been living in Europe since 1996, I could tell you that the socialist model the dems or piggressives (whatever name they call themselves these days) are trying to install is one big failure attached to a multi trillion debt that can never be repaid (of course that will be future generations and US administrations problem).
BTW- I lived in Ireland and liked it, but the amount of taxes and cost of living (and the weather) doesn’t keep people there. Ireland is a very transient sort of place for young continental Europeans. A place to improve their English and gain some foreign work experience. In fact, with the collapse of the property market and banks, Ireland is about to go the way of Iceland shortly. I personally know 4 Irish men who married and left the country for good (3 Australia & 1 Finland) over the years. For the Irish, they have awoke to the fact that the “Celtic tiger” was always based on foreign companies and cheap credit (housing boom) from other European banks.
Everything being trumpted from O-mans lips as solutions is a lie. Socialized medicine? Over here it is a joke. You and your employer pay high amounts for universal coverage in which the quality of health care is pathetic. You will literally die waiting for help. A friend of mine actually did just that. The running joke here is socialized medicine is great, as long as you are not sick. More state welfare? Why work. There will always be a loyal, degenerate portion of society that will vote for the politcal party that ensures they get a check on the 1st and 15th of every month. Communism? Rights? Freedom? “Who cares, I got a check from the goverment!”
As someone mentioned, who is going to pay for the entitlements and enlargement of government? Dems don’t create wealth to pay for their “generous” programs they obtain their ends through confiscation. They steal it, as well as elections, from others through legislative theft. Parasites always need a host to feed from. Want to end this pathological charade– revolution or leave. Take yourself, and your wealth, out of their clutches or start stock piling weapons, get organized and spread the words. I know many find that observation revolting (pun intended), but at some point the line will be crossed and you, the individual American, will need to make a personal decision. Oh, you might have to kill a few people, but don’t feel bad about it. Larry Grathwohl brought out into the light Bill Ayres and his people eluding that genocide against millions of Americans would be needed for the socilist utopia. Do you think one of Obama’s boys changed his spots? Ayers has had a really cushy lifestyle for being apart of terrorist group in which he never recanted. Why is still drawing breath, I don’t know, as he should have had an “accident” a long time ago, but alas I am rambling.
Regarding ACORN– My cousin works in a nursing home in Ohio and in Oct. 08′ ACORN showed up and registed them all to vote — all democrat. Some of these elderly have demensia or are simply vegetables. They do not have the capacity to coherently think and were clearly taken advantage of.
If the dems still hold Congress after 2010, I do not think America will ever bounce back. Once the socialist crap is passed and rooted into society, it will guarantee the country’s , and its people, decline as this particular ideology has proven time and time again.
Mar 29, 2009 - 12:30 pm 76. Delia:63. RFS:
0bama is a Racist/Socialist/Marxist pile of SH*T. So yeah he IS a big part of the problem now that ‘DEM’OLITIONISTS are in complete POWER NOW.
You obviously rode the short bus. I feel for ya.
Mar 29, 2009 - 5:00 pm 77. Joshua:Re: Sapwolf, #73: As I’ve pointed out before, repartitioning the USA along red/blue state lines carries its own set of big problems:
1) Demographically speaking, most states, even the ones traditionally dominated by one party, are not deeply red or blue, just varying shades of purple. What would you do with, say, all the red folks stuck in a slightly blue state because they have jobs and/or family ties there, or are otherwise unable to leave in the event of such a repartitioning?
2) Furthermore, many “blue” states, particularly in the Midwest, are really mostly “red” states which happen to include one or two very large, deeply blue metropolitan areas. Illinois, for instance, would turn from blue to red overnight if only it could somehow divorce itself from Chicagoland. If states are allowed to break away from the Union, would counties or regions within states also be allowed to break away?
3) Even if individual states are kept intact, after a repartitioning we’d still be left with two non-contiguous nations, whose residents would have to travel across, or fly over, foreign and possibly hostile territory just to get from one part of their own country to another. (See also Bangladesh, which was actually once Pakistani territory even though it was physically separated from the rest of Pakistan by India. Closer to home, English-speaking Canada would have the same problem wrt the Maritime Provinces if Quebec ever managed to break away.)
4) Last, but definitely not least, any attempt at breaking up the United States would inevitably have the same problem that Mr. Graham sees with up and moving to Costa Rica: “[E]motionally, it’s just not an option for most of us” who still believe in that bit in the Pledge of Allegiance about “one nation, indivisible” (YMMV on the “under God” part).
Mar 29, 2009 - 8:32 pm 78. Bilgeman:#73 sapwolf:
“Just hold a Constitutional Convention and ask the states if they wish to stay in the union. Split the country along RED/BLUE state lines, but do it relatively in peace.
The blue states of the northeast, leftcoast, upper midwest, plus Hawaii can stay in the existing union”
Better, but still room for improvement. Why are you hung up on the “State” rut?
Do it by county. That’s how the last round of secessions gave birth to West-by Gawd-Virginia.
Funny how that sh+t works, huh?
The sovereign states couldn’t secede from the Federal union, but 48 counties could secede from the Commonwealth of Virginia and that was just hunky-dory to this very day.
Played that way, I reckon we’d get nearly all of upstate New York and a big chunk of inland California, plus most of southern Illinois.
Rule of thumb being that states with large metro areas being subsidized by rural and exurban counties would rift the most.
Mar 29, 2009 - 8:52 pm 79. vivo:Business opportunity:
Relocate a gringo somewhere around the world and bring a foreigner to the USA. Call it an exchange program. Everybody happy.
Mar 29, 2009 - 11:16 pm 80. Delia:79. vivo
You need to relocate your brain into the sewer. Don’t worry. I’ll flush twice to be sure all one brain cell of yours makes it into the ’system’.
Mar 30, 2009 - 2:11 am 81. Northern Light:Didn’t American states seceed from the union before?
Oh yes, last time it happened about 500,000 people died.
So how is the Confederacy doing these days?
Mar 30, 2009 - 5:30 am 82. vivo:80. Delia::
Brain full of hate. Will spend Easter full of prayer, but only the Devil will hear her. Practices cannibalism. Her drug dealer is tired of her constant texting. Has her own porno site. What can you expect of such a “woman”? No sense of humor.
Mar 30, 2009 - 5:50 am 83. typos_R_us:What vivo said. Keep in mind that Costa Rico is a wholly owned subsidiary of the USA. When the Usurper declares an ‘emergency’ and cancels the 2010 elections, CR will become more dangerous then the USA. If the Usurper can force the Swiss to change their bankibf laws, then forcing CR to give up Nort Americanos won’t be hard. I spent several months there after the ‘06 election. There is an undertone of resentment and violence on the part of the natives toward Rich Americans. A good place to chill out, but NOT a refuge.
No, Conservatives are up against it. With the Republican party turned, we are too outnumber to make a stand, with no where to run to. In classic military terms, when surrounded, outnumbered and having no means of escape, you attack. There will be war.
Father Brown waxed his moustache.
Mar 30, 2009 - 5:56 am 84. David:Mary Jane lost her umbrella.
If all the conservatives leave, who’s going to pay all the taxes?
Mar 30, 2009 - 9:09 am 85. Chuck Pelto:TO: sapwolf, et al.
RE: A ‘Constitutional Convention’?
Does anyone see the obvious fallacy in sapwolf’s proposal?
If not, allow me to explain…..
Back in 1964, the Supreme Court of the United States (SCOTUS) overthrew every state-level constitution with their [misnomer] One-Man/One-Vote decree of Reynolds v. Simm (1964).
In that ruling, the balance of power at the state-level between metropolitan and rural areas—which we enjoy at the federal level, vis-a-vis the famous Great Compromise—was destroyed when the SCOTUS, under Earl Warren, declared that state senates must be elected in the same manner as state house of representatives, i.e., based strictly on population instead of geographical location.
This placed the preponderance of legislative authority in the metro districts.
So….
….if there is a ‘constitutional convention’ and the results of such a venture has to be ratified by the state assemblies/legislatures, guess what…..
….three guesses, first two don’t count.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Who do you 'cook' a frog?]
P.S. The mechanism of our own demise has been building over the last 40+ years. And now that the so-called ‘liberals’—what a misnomer—have put in place all the tools and fools to destroy the work of 200 years, they’re taking action…..
As the techno-geek in Independence Day was fond of putting it, “Checkmate….”
Mar 30, 2009 - 9:38 am 86. Chuck Pelto:OOPS….That should read “HOW” not “Who”.
More coffee….please…..
Mar 30, 2009 - 9:41 am 87. Joey:The issue of moving is less about freedom than it is of anger. The one country in the world that was created based on the ideas of freedom and peaceable, voluntary interaction between its people is now a country of government force and coercion between its people.
We are still the most free country in the world, we just need to raise that bar a lot higher. Maybe one day sooner rather than later the world will head toward a free market attitude. It is as Samual Adams said, if you want economic safety and security over freedom and potential, you got it right now. Now please get out. I’m paraphrasing.
Mar 30, 2009 - 11:22 am 88. Chuck Pelto:TO: Joey
RE: Soooooo…..
How do you suggest we do that?
Regards,
Chuck(le)
Mar 30, 2009 - 11:46 am 89. Bilgeman:[Talk is 'cheap'.]
#81 Northern Light:
“So how is the Confederacy doing these days?”
Better’n the rest, neighbor. Better’n the rest.
Mar 30, 2009 - 4:34 pm 90. Air2air:If only we could each live according to the system that we voted for. For example:
1. Liberal hippies can live under communism. There’s nothing wrong with that, as long as it is not imposed on others. They just have to pay for it somehow, and it’s theirs. They will need to provide goods or services to sell, with an appropriate tax rate to insure the survival of their buddies who are going through withdrawals. A catch is that the low financial rewards in such a system will make it difficult for them to innovate products that are competitive.
2. Conservatives can vote to live under capitalism unrestrained by having to pay for hippies anymore. The extremely low tax rates allow them to afford superior healthcare and schooling, and a vastly higher quality of life. It increases investment opportunities and as well as yields. And the surplus can then go to fund improvements in any area they decide, such as retirement or venture capital to continue technology innovations.
3. If a conservative wants to take a break for a few years, s/he can hang with the hippies and chill out. There would be no limits to a citizen’s ability to move back and forth between the two.
Mar 30, 2009 - 6:56 pm 91. typos_R_us:“If all the conservatives leave, who’s going to pay all the taxes?”
No need to worry about that, the gubermint will just print more money.
Mar 31, 2009 - 3:26 pm 92. Vir:Save America? How the hell is that going to happen?! Most of the people here are dumbest people in the world. The new Messiah and congress have done nothing but wreck this place with his STUPID thefts along.
Everything is moving to fast here with all of the supposed “emergencies” they create to rob us.
Still, we are a great country (stop laughing).
End the damn wars.
Close the foreign military bases.
End all foreign aid
Abolish the FED and IRS
End all bailouts and return the money
Bring the troops home
End the Patriot Act, FISA, MCA and torture
No, America….you could’ve had Ron Paul…but NO, YOU had to vote for Obama!
Apr 11, 2009 - 7:37 am