Comments on: The Doctor Is In: Is Red Wine Healthy? http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-doctor-is-in-is-red-wine-healthy/ Tue, 24 Nov 2009 04:19:40 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Dave http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-doctor-is-in-is-red-wine-healthy/comment-page-1/#comment-37587 Dave Thu, 08 May 2008 14:42:43 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-doctor-is-in-is-red-wine-healthy/#comment-37587 but there was also the "Copenhagen study" of the 1970s (findable on-line) which demonstrated that over a long period in the 1970s and early 1980s a very large control group (10,000+ Danes) showed distinctly lower heart disease and lower mortality rates that were directly correlated with red wine consumption; and even more threatening for traditional public health tut-tutting, the 1-2 glass a day drinkers did not do as well health-wise as the 2+ glasses a day red wine drinkers .... You can look it up. but there was also the “Copenhagen study” of the 1970s (findable on-line) which demonstrated that over a long period in the 1970s and early 1980s a very large control group (10,000+ Danes) showed distinctly lower heart disease and lower mortality rates that were directly correlated with red wine consumption; and even more threatening for traditional public health tut-tutting, the 1-2 glass a day drinkers did not do as well health-wise as the 2+ glasses a day red wine drinkers …. You can look it up.

]]> By: Chequers http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-doctor-is-in-is-red-wine-healthy/comment-page-1/#comment-37490 Chequers Thu, 08 May 2008 12:21:03 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-doctor-is-in-is-red-wine-healthy/#comment-37490 Study after study commencing as early as 1974 clearly indicated that subjects in their thousands benefited from lower rates of heart disease and stroke from alcohol consumption.The earlier ones showed that the benefits increased with the amounts consumed and in the process,recommended ridiculous amounts of daily consumption. This resulted in predictable commentary by other socially concerned medico's within a week of the study results' announcement with a cautionary tale and within a month of same these authorities were saying for good health don't drink.The red wine thing just muddies the issue.But think about it. Do you want drunk and hungover staff in the operating room or in an airport control tower or in any work place for that matter? Study after study commencing as early as 1974 clearly indicated that subjects in their thousands benefited from lower rates of heart disease and stroke from alcohol consumption.The earlier ones showed that the benefits increased with the amounts consumed and in the process,recommended ridiculous amounts of daily consumption.
This resulted in predictable commentary by other socially concerned medico’s within a week of the study results’ announcement with a cautionary tale and within a month of same these authorities were saying for good health don’t drink.The red wine thing just muddies the issue.But think about it. Do you want drunk and hungover staff in the operating room or in an airport control tower or in any work place for that matter?

]]> By: Martin Lindeskog http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-doctor-is-in-is-red-wine-healthy/comment-page-1/#comment-37439 Martin Lindeskog Thu, 08 May 2008 09:33:21 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-doctor-is-in-is-red-wine-healthy/#comment-37439 I often drink a glass of red wine together with my dinner. In order to be on the safe side, I eat a dietary supplement that is containing flavonoids from fruits and vegetables. The product comes from Hungary. Did you know that Hungary has more than 20 different wine districts? Linda Halderman: Do you know professor Dr. Zoltán Dinay? He will visit Sweden (Gothenburg and Stockholm) on May 17 - 18. I often drink a glass of red wine together with my dinner. In order to be on the safe side, I eat a dietary supplement that is containing flavonoids from fruits and vegetables. The product comes from Hungary. Did you know that Hungary has more than 20 different wine districts?

Linda Halderman: Do you know professor Dr. Zoltán Dinay? He will visit Sweden (Gothenburg and Stockholm) on May 17 – 18.

]]> By: Paul in CA http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-doctor-is-in-is-red-wine-healthy/comment-page-1/#comment-37186 Paul in CA Wed, 07 May 2008 20:15:44 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-doctor-is-in-is-red-wine-healthy/#comment-37186 In fewer words, the good doctor seems to say: If you don't drink, don't start, because there's not enough evidence it will benefit your health. If you do drink, moderately, don't stop, because there's not enough evidence it will harm your health. If you drink heavuily, cut it out! It will harm your health. What a waste of time. In fewer words, the good doctor seems to say:
If you don’t drink, don’t start, because there’s not enough evidence it will benefit your health.
If you do drink, moderately, don’t stop, because there’s not enough evidence it will harm your health.
If you drink heavuily, cut it out! It will harm your health.
What a waste of time.

]]> By: John Moore http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-doctor-is-in-is-red-wine-healthy/comment-page-1/#comment-36886 John Moore Wed, 07 May 2008 03:31:48 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-doctor-is-in-is-red-wine-healthy/#comment-36886 Recent research has shown that gastric bypass surgery, a treatment for obesity, reverses type II diabetes even in people who don't lose weight or cut calories. There is a trial in progress that seems to show that blocking absorption of food in the duodenum will reverse type II diabetes - again, independent of obesity and caloric input. Nobody has a clue yet about the causes of this, AFAIK. This may indeed be the H. Pylori of diabetes. The standard model of type II diabetes is that excess insulin, caused by excess caloric intake, causes damage to cells' insulin response, and also causes some of the health problems of diabetes (primarily vascular disease). This doesn't fit with the newest finding. On the other hand, maybe that finding is wrong. Who knows. But one this is certain: there is a strong correlation between obesity and type II diabetes. Tristan is clueless - imagining that there is only one kind of diabetes (low insulin production - type I or juvenile diabetes) when the majority of diabetics are type II (insulin resistant). There are also strong genetic components. One of the Indian tribes here in Arizona has the highest rate of type II diabetes of any ethnic group in the world - by far. The supposition is that the tribe went through a serious carbohydrate famine in the past, winnowing out all but those who process carbohydrates too effectively for the modern diet. Recent research has shown that gastric bypass surgery, a treatment for obesity, reverses type II diabetes even in people who don’t lose weight or cut calories. There is a trial in progress that seems to show that blocking absorption of food in the duodenum will reverse type II diabetes – again, independent of obesity and caloric input.

Nobody has a clue yet about the causes of this, AFAIK. This may indeed be the H. Pylori of diabetes.

The standard model of type II diabetes is that excess insulin, caused by excess caloric intake, causes damage to cells’ insulin response, and also causes some of the health problems of diabetes (primarily vascular disease). This doesn’t fit with the newest finding.

On the other hand, maybe that finding is wrong. Who knows.

But one this is certain: there is a strong correlation between obesity and type II diabetes. Tristan is clueless – imagining that there is only one kind of diabetes (low insulin production – type I or juvenile diabetes) when the majority of diabetics are type II (insulin resistant).

There are also strong genetic components. One of the Indian tribes here in Arizona has the highest rate of type II diabetes of any ethnic group in the world – by far. The supposition is that the tribe went through a serious carbohydrate famine in the past, winnowing out all but those who process carbohydrates too effectively for the modern diet.

]]> By: AL http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-doctor-is-in-is-red-wine-healthy/comment-page-1/#comment-36764 AL Tue, 06 May 2008 20:23:44 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-doctor-is-in-is-red-wine-healthy/#comment-36764 One study debunked the Frensh paradox pointing out that French coroners undercounted the number of deaths due to heart disease. The coroners classified deaths that US coroners would have counted as heart disease under other categories. That said, the French eat a lot less than we do, but drink a lot more. Also interesting is that US obesity rates and diabetes rate follow trend lines similar to that of per capita soft drink consumption. Dr Halderman might want to cover that issue to provide a definitive answer to Tristan's comment. One study debunked the Frensh paradox pointing out that French coroners undercounted the number of deaths due to heart disease. The coroners classified deaths that US coroners would have counted as heart disease under other categories. That said, the French eat a lot less than we do, but drink a lot more. Also interesting is that US obesity rates and diabetes rate follow trend lines similar to that of per capita soft drink consumption. Dr Halderman might want to cover that issue to provide a definitive answer to Tristan’s comment.

]]> By: Dennis http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-doctor-is-in-is-red-wine-healthy/comment-page-1/#comment-36733 Dennis Tue, 06 May 2008 19:47:35 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-doctor-is-in-is-red-wine-healthy/#comment-36733 I take the positive Biblical approach and have published 2 books on the subject: (1) God Gave Wine, by Ken Gentry, a very thorough exegetical approach, and (2) Drinking with Calvin and Luther! by Jim West, an historical approach. These 2 books answer just about every question and can be reviewed at Oakdown.com I take the positive Biblical approach and have published 2 books on the subject: (1) God Gave Wine, by Ken Gentry, a very thorough exegetical approach, and (2) Drinking with Calvin and Luther! by Jim West, an historical approach. These 2 books answer just about every question and can be reviewed at Oakdown.com

]]> By: Andi http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-doctor-is-in-is-red-wine-healthy/comment-page-1/#comment-36618 Andi Tue, 06 May 2008 15:12:06 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-doctor-is-in-is-red-wine-healthy/#comment-36618 As for grape juice and red wine extract, even if alcohol does increase the absorbtion of antioxidants this does not mean that an increased intake of those antioxidants, poorly absorbed, is not beneficial. This is particularly true when you consider that an extract can be safely consumed in far greater quantities than wine. I think I'll keep popping those purple pills. As for grape juice and red wine extract, even if alcohol does increase the absorbtion of antioxidants this does not mean that an increased intake of those antioxidants, poorly absorbed, is not beneficial. This is particularly true when you consider that an extract can be safely consumed in far greater quantities than wine.

I think I’ll keep popping those purple pills.

]]> By: James http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-doctor-is-in-is-red-wine-healthy/comment-page-1/#comment-36484 James Tue, 06 May 2008 07:39:03 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-doctor-is-in-is-red-wine-healthy/#comment-36484 Did anyone take into account that France has the best health care? According to World Health Organization. This could be huge! Why are people so unhealthy in America verse France could be that France has better health coverage and people are way more willing to goto the doctor, better access, better funding for health care. Or could it be that every August everyone takes the month off for vacation? Unlike US were people work them selves to death just to have a million dollar home and a range rover. France would not be the proper place to make this judgment. Spend a 5 year study on US population and than tell me the results. Did anyone take into account that France has the best health care? According to World Health Organization. This could be huge! Why are people so unhealthy in America verse France could be that France has better health coverage and people are way more willing to goto the doctor, better access, better funding for health care. Or could it be that every August everyone takes the month off for vacation? Unlike US were people work them selves to death just to have a million dollar home and a range rover. France would not be the proper place to make this judgment. Spend a 5 year study on US population and than tell me the results.

]]> By: cthulhu http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-doctor-is-in-is-red-wine-healthy/comment-page-1/#comment-36472 cthulhu Tue, 06 May 2008 06:22:45 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-doctor-is-in-is-red-wine-healthy/#comment-36472 One of these days, they're going to come up with something like Heliobacter pylori or HPV that turns out to cause diabetes, and the entire medical profession could end up dangling from lampposts. In both of the above cases, ulcers and cervical cancer were linked to lifestyle issues or bad luck for literally centuries....until an infectious agent for each was ultimately discovered (Ulcers: 1985 per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Marshall; HPV: 1999 according to http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/10ed42.htm). Currently, the medical profession is linking diabetes (and obesity) to lifestyle issues and/or bad luck.....but where ulcers and cervical cancer were comparatively rare, the CDC says that nearly one out of three Americans is obese. If obesity/diabetes turns out to be primarily caused by an infectious agent or environmental hazard, one out of three Americans will be seriously miffed -- as in "declare the AMA a terrorist organization" miffed. One of these days, they’re going to come up with something like Heliobacter pylori or HPV that turns out to cause diabetes, and the entire medical profession could end up dangling from lampposts.

In both of the above cases, ulcers and cervical cancer were linked to lifestyle issues or bad luck for literally centuries….until an infectious agent for each was ultimately discovered (Ulcers: 1985 per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Marshall; HPV: 1999 according to http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/10ed42.htm).

Currently, the medical profession is linking diabetes (and obesity) to lifestyle issues and/or bad luck…..but where ulcers and cervical cancer were comparatively rare, the CDC says that nearly one out of three Americans is obese. If obesity/diabetes turns out to be primarily caused by an infectious agent or environmental hazard, one out of three Americans will be seriously miffed — as in “declare the AMA a terrorist organization” miffed.

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