The Fitna Firestorm
The equation of Islam with violence doesn't come from Dutch politician Geert Wilders; it comes from the words and actions of Muslims he features in his controversial film.
Fitna in Arabic means discord or upheaval; it is also the name of a new sixteen-minute film by Dutch politician Geert Wilders that appeared last Thursday, and has done nothing since then but … create fitna. The expected riots and violence did not materialize: in Karachi, a quixotic band of just over three dozen jihadists chanted “Death to the filmmaker,” but so far that has been about it on the street level.
Protests have instead been official. Iran and Pakistan lodged formal complaints — Iran with the European Union and Pakistan with the Dutch Ambassador to Islamabad — and as of this writing the anger is only growing. Other Islamic states and organizations also expressed outrage over the film. The multinational Islamic body and largest single voting bloc at the UN, the 57-nation Organization of the Islamic Conference, condemned Fitna in “the strongest terms,” claiming that Wilders’s movie was “a deliberate act of discrimination against Muslims” intended only to “provoke unrest and intolerance.”
However, equal and even greater indignation came from non-Muslim leaders, particularly at the United Nations. UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon dubbed the film “offensively anti-Islamic” and declared: “There is no justification for hate speech or incitement to violence. The right of free expression is not at stake here.” Or maybe it is: the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Louise Arbour, urged those angered by the film to work to limit free speech rights. “There is a protective legal framework,” she noted, “and the resolution of the controversy that this film will generate should take place within it.” She said that legislators “should offer strong protective measures to all forms of freedom of expression, while at the same time enacting appropriate restrictions, as necessary, to protect the rights of others.”
With somewhat woolly logic, Jorge Sampaio, UN High Representative for the Alliance of Civilizations, urged the world not to overemphasize extremism, for to do so would only create extremism: “We should indeed beware of overemphasizing it, because extremism anywhere is extremism everywhere, thanks to new media technologies. Few people think of themselves as extremists, but many can be pushed towards an extreme point of view, almost without noticing it, when they feel that the behavior or language of others is extreme. We therefore deeply regret this offensive film.”
So in other words, don’t point out the evil that the “extremists” are committing, or they’ll just do more of it.
The core objection to the film was that it linked Islam with violence. The Prime Minister of the Netherlands, Jan Peter Balkenende, declared that this was a false linkage: “We reject this interpretation. The vast majority of Muslims reject extremism and violence. In fact, the victims are often also Muslims.”
But is Geert Wilders the one really responsible for the connection of Islam with violence? An answer can be found in the film itself. The main part of it features a series of quotations from the Qur’an, followed by scenes of violent acts committed by Muslims. But the key question is whether or not the violent acts really have anything to do with the Qur’an quotes. Most of Wilders’s detractors would say that they do not, but Wilders has already accounted for this objection in the film itself. For example, the first verse of the Qur’an presented in Fitna is 8:60: “Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies of Allah and your enemies…” Wilders follows this with heart-rending scenes from 9/11 and the March 11, 2004 Madrid train bombings, as we hear two women calling for help on those days. The women are indeed terrified, but what does this have to do with Qur’an 8:60? An Islamic preacher — not Wilders or any other non-Muslim — soon appears to answer this question, stating in terms that clearly recall that verse of the Qur’an: “Annihilate the infidels and the polytheists, your (Allah’s) enemies and the enemies of the religion. Allah, count them and kill them to the last one…”
Fitna then quotes Qur’an 4:56 — “Those who reject our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire: as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise” — and follows this with a series of scenes of Muslim preachers calling for the killing of Jews. The first of these even quotes the notorious genocidal hadith in which Muhammad says: “The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.”
But the film makes no mention of the presence of this in authoritative Islamic sources, albeit not in the Qur’an itself. Nor, when it cuts to a three-year-old girl telling a television interviewer that the Jews are “apes and pigs” because Allah said so in the Qur’an, it doesn’t provide the references (2:62-65; 5:59-60: 7:166). And while the Qur’an is full of fiercely antisemitic passages (2:89; 3:112; 9:30; and many more), 4:56 is not one of them, but is merely a general warning of the hellfire that awaits those who reject Islam.
However, what Wilders may have had in mind comes clear from depictions of two Muslim protestors, one holding a sign saying, “Be prepared for the real Holocaust,” and another carrying one reading, “God Bless Hitler.” Maybe the reference in Qur’an 4:56 to the roasting of skins led Wilders to connect this verse to this thirst for a new Holocaust — and here again, while Islamic leaders don’t invoke 4:56 to justify this bloodlust, they do quote other Islamic texts that most Muslims consider authoritative. And so here again, the equation of Islam with violence doesn’t come from Wilders himself, but from the Muslims he features in the film.
After this comes Qur’an 47:4: “Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; at length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them).” Wilders follows this with images of two unbelievers whose necks were struck by the warriors of jihad: Theo van Gogh and Nick Berg. The statements of the perpetrators make it clear that they believed themselves to be acting in accord with Islamic imperatives. Mohammed Bouyeri, the murderer of van Gogh, clutched a Qur’an as he told a Dutch court in 2005: “What moved me to do what I did was purely my faith. I was motivated by the law that commands me to cut off the head of anyone who insults Allah and his prophet.” And the late jihadist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi invoked Muhammad’s example to justify the beheading of Berg: “Is it not time for you [Muslims] to take the path of jihad and carry the sword of the Prophet of prophets?…The Prophet, the most merciful, ordered [his army] to strike the necks of some prisoners in [the battle of] Badr and to kill them. … And he set a good example for us.”
Here again, the Islamic justification for these acts of barbarism comes not from Wilders, but from Muslims.
Next comes Qur’an 4:89: “They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks.” Wilders again illustrates this with Muslims calling for the deaths of those who leave Islam. One would think also that the case of Abdul Rahman, the Afghan Muslim who was put on trial for his life in 2006 for converting to Christianity before being spirited away to safety in Italy, would be enough to demonstrate that many Muslims take the traditional Islamic death penalty for apostasy seriously — and that it was not invented by Geert Wilders.
Finally, there is Qur’an 8:39: “And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere…” — and a series of Islamic preachers and other Muslims (including Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad) asserting that Islam will soon conquer the West and rule the entire world. No non-Muslims are shown saying this.
And that points up the odd myopia of virtually all of the objections to Fitna. It was not Geert Wilders, but the many Muslims he shows in his film, who link Islam with violence. And that link has already been made innumerable times around the world — by Islamic jihad warriors, not by non-Muslim “Islamophobes.” Omar Bakri, once the leading jihadist in Britain but now in exile from the Sceptered Isle, even went so far as to say that with a few small edits, Fitna “could be a film by the Mujahideen.” And that’s precisely the problem: while a growing chorus of Muslim and non-Muslim voices denounces Fitna, what are they doing to limit the activities of the jihadists the film portrays?
The film first appeared at LiveLeak.com on Thursday; however, the next day LiveLeak pulled it, replacing it with an announcement:
Following threats to our staff of a very serious nature, and some ill informed reports from certain corners of the British media that could directly lead to the harm of some of our staff, Liveleak.com has been left with no other choice but to remove Fitna from our servers.
This is a sad day for freedom of speech on the net but we have to place the safety and well being of our staff above all else. We would like to thank the thousands of people, from all backgrounds and religions, who gave us their support. They realised LiveLeak.com is a vehicle for many opinions and not just for the support of one.
Perhaps there is still hope that this situation may produce a discussion that could benefit and educate all of us as to how we can accept one anothers culture.
We stood for what we believe in, the ability to be heard, but in the end the price was too high.
“In the end the price was too high” could be the epitaph of the Free West — particularly given the fact that Wilders in the film is merely reporting on how jihadist commit and justify acts of violence and supremacism.
LiveLeak’s concern for its employees is legitimate. The employees didn’t sign up for this. But beyond LiveLeak, if Americans and Westerners and all people who are threatened by the global jihad and Islamic supremacism aren’t willing to give their lives for this cause, then all is lost. Because the jihadists certainly are willing to give their lives for their cause. For them, no price is too high. And if any price is too high for us, then ultimately all we will have to pay is jizya — the tax specified by Qur’an 9:29 for certain non-Muslims (particularly Jews and Christians) subjugated as inferiors under the rule of Islamic Sharia law.
What ever happened to “Give me liberty, or give me death?”
Or “with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor”?
LiveLeak may have caved, but many others didn’t. Fitna is now all over the Internet. You can still watch it at, among many other places, my website Jihad Watch. Freedom and truth may be tottering, but they have not fallen, and the battle over Fitna may well wake up many more to fight in their defense.
Robert Spencer is the director of Jihad Watch and author of the New York Times Bestsellers The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades) and The Truth About Muhammad.
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61 Comments
1. Ed Wallis:Thank oyu, Mr. Spencer, for this article and your fine work on Jihad Watch. Judging from the quotes you have above, it seems the United Nations has chosen to be a part of the “fifth column” of the islamic terrorists (sigh). I hope the film “Finta” gets wide coverage; a small-yet-eloquent work which for the most part merely states facts to bowl the viewer over.
Mar 31, 2008 - 1:16 am 2. RE:I’m somewhat baffled by the abject cowardice of the European political class in the face of Islam’s direct contradictions to Western values (and yes, we see the same pathetic spinelessness in the US government also). The koran says what it says. There are countless videos of imams preaching islamic conquest and children being indoctrinated and yet politicians twist themselves into pretzels to deny it.
The only rational explanation I am left after a long process of elimination is that they are being bought off. Nothing other than corruption makes any sense to me.
Mar 31, 2008 - 4:00 am 3. Understanding Fitna:[...] superb “exegeses” of Geert Wilder’s film Fitna which you should read in their entirety, at Pajamas Media, and Human [...]
Mar 31, 2008 - 5:31 am 4. Robert Spencer: The Fitna Firestorm « Kruisvaarder’s Weblog:[...] Must Read All… [...]
Mar 31, 2008 - 5:48 am 5. Tony:There is definitely some sort of mental defect afflicting too many of the politicians/elites in the European Union.
Multiculural sensitivity has become so ingrained a philosophy that they no longer appear capable of distinguishing between what is good or bad, right or wrong. They watch “Fitna” and see only cultural insults to minorities instead of digesting the actual contents of the film and snapping themselves out of their bizarre reverie. As a European myself I find that deeply disturbing.
The media over here have also provided a complicit mouthpiece to this multicultural hogwash to such an extent that any citizen who may only have a passing interest in world affairs (the vast majority, I suspect) would still be relatively blind to the threats posed to its hard-won civilization values by the spread of Islam througout the continent.
Maybe with efforts such as Geert Wilders and obviously the continuing sterling efforts of Mr Spencer the sleepy dust might slowly start to fall from peoples eyes……
Mar 31, 2008 - 7:00 am 6. yonason:FITNA IS GREAT, BUT…
…I like your movie better.
Mar 31, 2008 - 7:57 am 7. patruped:bun biped:rău : Fitna - LiveLeak nu capitulează:[...] The Fitna Firestorm Print Posted by emil on Luni, Martie 31, 2008, at 11:21 am, and filed under De Referinţă. Follow any responses to this post with its comments RSS feed. You can post a comment or trackback from your blog. [...]
Mar 31, 2008 - 8:21 am 8. Alfie St Taurie:2 days following the release of Fitna by the very brave and defiant Geert Wilders(protection be upon him)and it appears that the muslims have finally seen the light and realised that mass rabid demonstrations are making the cause of Islam look very stupid indeed to the kufaar. So instead, the reaction from ‘one or more’ muslims has been diluted to include just token death threats to Geert Wilders and staff at LiveLeak who were forced to pull the video.
Mar 31, 2008 - 10:52 am 9. Sandi:Thank you Mr Spencer for your dedication, hard work and great talent.
Mar 31, 2008 - 12:01 pm 10. Shabana:What I don’t get is this phony excuse of freedom of speech being used to justify this film. Wilder is using fear tactics to create an us vs. them attitude and incite hatred. When Mel Gibson spurted out nonsense in a drunken state that “Jews are responsible for all wars” everyone was shocked. When the character on Seinfeild crossed a line about blacks during his comedy routine that created an uproar. When the Imus called those basketball players knappy headed hoes, he got fired. So when Muslims have a problems with a film, then all of the sudden we want to indoctrinate everyone and force people to live under Shariah law and all this apocolyptic doomsday nonsense surfaces.
Mar 31, 2008 - 12:49 pm 11. Michael Canzano:Wilder wants to ban the Quran but thinks its a violation of free speech to ban his film. There’s so much hypocrisy its really disgusting!
Fitna ,Obsession and any movies showing Islam
Mar 31, 2008 - 12:56 pm 12. simpleandhumble:as “The Junk Yard Dog Religon” that it is are always denied as truth by Muslims . The Imams preach hate and murder yet are offended by the truth .
While the pathetic western politicians
practice appeasement. Wilders injected a breath of truthful fresh air on the subject.
Europe is at the point of no return. They are leaning towards Sharia.
American Christian Infidel
I am a muslim and I wondered how many verses in the Qur’an speak of this violence that you all seem to have misinterpreted and completely taken out of context. So I googled “how many violent verses in qur’an” and i found 2 fine sources from islam lovers such as your selves and they stated 109 verses @ http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/023-violence.htm and 164 verses @http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/Quran/Themes/jihad_passages.html.
Now take into account how many total verses are in the Qur’an, which is a few more than 6000. So if we divide 164/6000, that comes out to about 2.7% percent of the Qur’an that supposedly speaks of “inhumae jihad” on everybody. So if Islam really is a religion of war and jihad and killing, why is only 164 verses out of 6000 verses speak of violence. Please answer me this gentleman.
Peace out!
Mar 31, 2008 - 2:06 pm 13. RE:simpleandhumble,
If there were only one verse that a jihadi could use to justify murdering an innocent, it’s one too many. But it turns out here are many more than that.
You can view the tremendous mileage the peace loving imams get out of that 2.7% – all available for your viewing pleasure at http://memritv.org/
And don’t forget the nonviolent passages – like how it is perfectly OK to lie to us infidels (Al-taqiyya).
Mar 31, 2008 - 3:07 pm 14. venividivici:Wilder wants to ban the Quran but thinks its a violation of free speech to ban his film. There’s so much hypocrisy its really disgusting!
Shabana,
It’s only hypocrisy if Wilders is doing something as bad or worse than the violence he finds contained in the Koran. For example, if Wilders himself were a Nazi but he criticized the Koran or wanted to take away freedom of speech from people advocating political change without resorting to or threatening violence, unlike the way in which Muslims agitate for political change. Why don’t you find out the definitions of big words before you try to use them? Do you think that just throwing around words like “hypocrisy”, you’ll get people to stop criticizing Islam? While it’s true hypocrisy is a bad thing, Wilders isn’t engaging in it in any objective sense of the word.
Mar 31, 2008 - 3:25 pm 15. The Fitna Firestorm….March 31, 2008 - by Robert Spencer « Tizona’s Weblog:[...] Pajamas Media [...]
Mar 31, 2008 - 3:27 pm 16. WYSIWYG:I like the way Tony put it in his comment. Likened to say that if we close our eyes, the bees will go away.
Wilder did nothing but take the actions of the extremists (most violent believers) and relate them to the Quran. That can’t be denied in reality. There is video and picture documentation of that in almost every language and culture, even among the Muslim nations. They have openly threatened our culture and we have every right to defend ourselves, much as did those of the Christian crusades of centuries ago. Why shouldn’t I look at every Muslim and think, perhaps, there stands my murderer?
As an intelligent being, we have the capability of deciding what we like and don’t like and to the extent that someone or a culture threatens our values, we are justified in voicing our dislikes as much as those who threaten our well-being. If someone doesn’t like us, not for what we are, but because we don’t believe as they do and they threaten our lives, then we are just as justified to be equally rebellious to them. It appears that feat is the backbone of Muslim behaviour, fear of punishment by those who sit to judge only, and not to be ensamples of human dignity. ‘Don’t do as I do, do as I say.’
simpleandhumble – freedom of speech – my word, fellow. What about freedom of living without threats. Are you trying to tell us there isn’t a thread of truth in what Wilder said produced. Produced isn’t the word that should be used, because he merely put together the documentation of the actions of the Muslim extremist and related it to the word of the Quran. How much more proof is there needed to be produced to show the those extremists are threatening the freedom of life of those who have NOT Islam values (appears to be a loose term). Violent reactions to the members of a culture show us there is no form of human dignity in their treatment of others. It is a life of fear and is, possibly, the worse stress to live under, such as the Jews did during WW2. Me thinks you’re a bit misquided.
Mar 31, 2008 - 4:22 pm 17. Jay Lee:Welcome to the 21st century. Get over yourselves. Why should religious beliefs of any kind be protected from criticism? Christianity and Judaism are criticized constantly and vehemently. So what? If your beliefs can’t stand up to scrutiny maybe the beliefs are lame anyway. If people want to believe all this god stuff, that is up to them. Demanding respect for any of these views isn’t going to make it so. Demanding a critical free zone isn’t going to protect irrationality forever.
My concerns aren’t for religious views but for religious freedom, including freedom from religion. Religions are not worthy of respect only people. Imagine!
Mar 31, 2008 - 4:34 pm 18. Dark Helmet:political correctness, liberalism, ending in islime. Cut the head off the snake.
Mar 31, 2008 - 6:45 pm 19. tanstaafl:The passages of the Koran, especially the relevant verses in Sura 4, 8 and 47 featured in Fitna have always struck me as Mohammed’s “helpful suggestions from the Angel Gabriel” to facilitate and rationalize his marauding and lifestyle.
Heck, he even married one Jewess (after she renounced “the Book”) and had another, captured in battle, as a concubine. So what does that do the whole “apes & pigs” thing ?
Why don’t people ask these portentous
) questions ?
For those steeped in politically correct so called multi-culturalism, to somehow pretend Fitna is offensive is merely another example of how scared bureaucratic types have no business overseeing or directing anything on the Earth. See most recently Ban Ki Moon to (officially) join the ranks of the Completely Clueless.
If they want to see vicious and hateful, I’d suggest dropping by any radical mosque on the planet, perhaps during Friday “prayers”.
Mar 31, 2008 - 6:50 pm 20. Wolf Pangloss:This is an open letter to LiveLeak.
In these days of the globalized Jihad everyone must choose their allies, their customers, their base with care. Choices not made still have consequences.
A few days ago, Fitna hit the Internet. LiveLeak, which hosted it, became the target of threats and rage. About 12 hours after posting the movie, LiveLeak took it down.
This is quite ironic because LiveLeak, hosted in both the UK and USA, has long been one of the most reliable places to find jihad terrorist propaganda videos. For the past couple of years, YouTube and LiveLeak have hosted hundreds, thousands of terrorist propaganda videos featuring such horrors as Juba’s sniper attacks on American and British soldiers, IED and VBIED explosions, torture murders of captives, etc. YouTube initially resisted requests to take the videos down, but eventually began to comply. On the other hand, when requested by American and British citizens to remove the terrorist propaganda movies, LiveLeak always used free speech as a defense for letting the movies stay.
For several years, against the opprobrium of patriots from the English speaking countries, LiveLeak stood firm in its stand for the free speech rights of those who were profoundly opposed to free speech for those who were not as them. Its reputation grew among the terrorists and the terrorists’ fans, both from idolaters of Jihad and those with a nihilist, post-modern, Gramscian hatred of ordinary British and American culture. LiveLeak’s developed these haters of Britain, America, Christianity, Jews, and capitalism into its base.
So when Geert Wilders came along with his well-publicized project to face Islam with the idolatry of Jihad within it, it seemed like a perfect opportunity for LiveLeak to poke a stick in the eye of a new target. LiveLeak exists to stir things up like this. But this time it backfired. LiveLeak was threatened, not with scorn and indignation, but with bloodcurdling threats of violence against employer, employees, and their families. The threats were believable because the evidence that violent Muslims would carry them out was in color on LiveLeak’s very own site. Worse yet, the base of haters that LiveLeak had built up with great care was the heart of the revolt against it. Now LiveLeak felt the hatred and threat of violence that it had gleefully helped its own base aim at others for years.
It spooked LiveLeak. The company threw in its cards. It banished Fitna with the cynical excuse that the price of free speech was too great.
Now it was apparent to everyone what LiveLeak was. Its ethical stance was revealed as a rotting corpse. LiveLeak turned out to be a cowardly organization that cheered on murderers against its employees, their neighbors, and the countries in which they lived. Were any LiveLeak employees killed in the 7/7 bombings? Were the brothers of any LiveLeak employees killed in combat in Iraq or Afghanistan? Perhaps not, but they very well could have been. But when LiveLeak itself faced a few threats it quickly gave up and censored one, carefully chosen video that it hosted.
A few days later, LiveLeak restored Fitna. But it does not help LiveLeak, which now stands exposed as a cowardly, rabble-rousing, self-loathing organization without even the courage of its convictions. LiveLeak’s way forward will either be to self-destruct, or to take sides. Will it recruit its base from the peoples of the countries that nurtured it, that provided the environment in which the technology that allows it to exist was developed, countries that send brave young, all-too-young, men to dangerous places to protect LiveLeak from morally retrograde murderers and slave-takers, or will it recruit its base among those who would overthrow free speech, democracy, women’s and gay rights, scientific discovery, secular law, who would reinstate slavery and impose the burka, honor killings, second class citizenship, and clitorodectomies on women? That is the choice before it. The result of no choice will be a slow death of nihilism and irrelevance.
LiveLeak, it is time to choose. This is the moment that will make or break you. Take your stand or slowly wither away.
Mar 31, 2008 - 8:28 pm 21. GT:Correlation or causation? Clearly the retrospective analysis of radical Islam as popularized most recently by Shiek Usama bin Laden et al, proves that 2.7% +/- of the verses of the Holy Quran CAUSE violence, murder and terrorism against mankind.
The fact that Mr. Wilder documented just 16 minutes of this irrefutable evidence doesn’t show malice on his part… it shows restraint. The unwavering, relentless ability of radical Islam to rationalize, minimize and justify their murderous evangelism is only surpassed by their lack of rational thinking. The basic premise for truth must always remain: The truth invites inspection.
Mar 31, 2008 - 9:11 pm 22. Boinkie:Taking it off one internet site means it will go elsewhere.
Several websites besides your own have it for download, and doing a torrent search, there are 20 plus versions available for downloads, and presumably more available via P2P sites.
Mar 31, 2008 - 11:16 pm 23. Paul:I just want to say that I have viewed Fitna, and am so excited for it that I plan to share it with all of my colleagues, friends, family, and my young son. Spreading the word of the evilness of modern islam and the quran should be an obligation to all non-muslims.
Apr 1, 2008 - 3:40 am 24. Ed Wallis:2.7%!
“Only” 2.7%!!!
Hey, “simpleandhumble”, your charming mathematical claim is about as laughable as that from those who claim “less that 1% of muslims are terrorists.” Well, let’s see. At 1.3 billion muslims worldwide, that’s saying, “What, me worry about somewhat less than 13,000,000 violently crazed muslims?!”
Do you really wonder – on top of that, with a straight face – why people think arguements like yours are relativist excuses for terrorism?
Apr 1, 2008 - 3:45 am 25. Jets 'n Guns:Nearly every critical comment I have come across that codemns Fitna seems to betray a lack of first-hand knowledge of the film. I think people who comment on this film, should be required to prove that they have actually watched it in its entirety. This would only be fair, as people like Mr. Spencer have earned the right to comment on jihad and the Koran, having studied it themselves, first.
Apr 1, 2008 - 2:14 pm 26. Gerald:It is amazing how many people still fall for this propaganda. Of course, the Koran is full of hatred and violence. Yawn…
The European “political class”, however, has not been that much worried. Extremists are here. They are being taken care of by police and special services. However, the average European muslim’s practice is quite different from what is suggested by this video.
To give a comparison: You ask the pope, and he will tell you that condom use is not allowed, nor is sex before marriage. However, nobody claims catholics are spreading aids because they do not use condoms, or assumes that they do not have sex before marriage. Religion is hypocrisy.
To claim that the average euromuslim has something to do with fundamentalist extremists, just because he is a muslim, is just as outrageous as claiming that the average white American has something to do with the KKK, because he is a white American.
In the video itself there is nothing new. There are dangerous extremists around, and the Koran is a violent text. It is just the vicious implication, that this concerns the average law-abiding euromuslim, which is outright wrong.
So, can we concentrate on something more important? The whole middle-east/africa region is full of undemocratic regimes, including our friends the Saudis, Egyptians, Emiratis. And our enemies, the anti-islamic Syrians. In the meantime our own principles are slipping in our deals with China. Let us make a clip on that.
“fitna” has more meanings by the way. The Cowan/Wehr dictionary puts civil strife last after temptation (to leave the faith), charm, enchantment, infatuation and intrigue. The Larousse puts ‘test’ first. Much nicer starters for a column.
Apr 1, 2008 - 3:01 pm 27. josie:After viewing the 16 min video “fitna” I read that Islam now has the largest number of followers. Why is it OK for Muslims to kill thousands of people, yet, no one in this world can even remotely make any comments on Islam. As one of the “infidels” take heed, THIS OLD LADY AIN’T GOING DOWN WITHOUT ONE HELL OF A FIGHT. I have become very resentful of Muslims lately long before I saw this movie.
Just as did during Hitler’s rise to power, Europeans and Americans are keeping their heads in the sand because they think they’re safe there. I guess humans can’t learn from history.
P.S.Hey Gerald, since when did the use, or lack of use of condoms or sex before marriage kill or threaten anyone
Apr 1, 2008 - 3:46 pm 28. Madjnun:We should however view Fitna for what it is, not a documentary revealing the truth about Islam, nor a film showing the view of Dutch people concerning Islam but an act of political propaganda made by a Dutch political leader trying to reduce the multidimensionality of the lives of Muslims and non-Muslims by using an adversarial ritual. It is a ritual that depict war against one another and people who have to face and overcome challenges.
Astonishing therefore that people are really seeing this film as soft. Are we used already to all the violence that is depicted, don’t we think that using lies, distortions and so on is a problem? It is an irresponsible form of abusing the freedom of speech, not only towards Muslims but also with regard to the people who voted for Wilders.What Wilders has done now is behaving like a charlatan who sells rubbish, nonsense and a pack of lies and something that probably will not solve any problem.
See more here, totally debunked Fitna:
Apr 1, 2008 - 4:02 pm 29. Ed Wallis:http://religionresearch.org/martijn/2008/03/29/coming-soonfitna-v-analysing-political-propaganda/
Gee Madjnun, I thought that showing video portions of others speaking or acting was considered “portrayal of the truth,” more honest than even quoting someone.
That’s why I don’t get your claim of “lies,” “propaganda,” “distortion” and, my favorite: “abuse of freedom of speech” (said like a true totalitarian…bravo, Madjnun!).
In English, we call it THE TRUTH, Madjnun.
Gee whiz, I would have thought that supporters and apologists of terrorists – as yourself, perhaps? – would have seen this film as close to an advertisement for their actions! Only…that for the rest of us, these actions are seen as cowardly and primitive….
See here, for totally debunked Madjnun:
Apr 1, 2008 - 4:53 pm 30. Readers Edition » Geert Wilders schockiert mit seinem Kurzfilm “Fitna”:http://spjall.vaktin.is/files/retarted.jpg
[...] Weiterführendes: – Literatur von Bassam Tibi; – Bassam Tibi: Keine Selbstaufgabe durch totale Anpassung an den Westen. Der Euro-Islam ist nur im Einklang mit der kulturellen Moderne möglich, In: Das Parlament, Ausgabe 32-33 2005, URL: http://www.bundestag.de/dasparlament; – Bassam Tibi: Der importierte Hass, In: Die Zeit, 07/2003, URL: http://www.zeit.de; – Bassam Tibi: Aufstieg und Fall der Zivilisationen, In: Welt Online, 19.10.2006, URL: http://www.welt.de; – Dorothee Krings: Experte ärget sich über “falsche Toleranz”, Europa unterschätzt die Islamisten, In: RP Online, 04.03.2008, URL: http://www.rp-online.de; – Henryk M. Broder: Der Populist, der keiner ist, In: Spiegel Online, 30.03.2008, URL: http://www.spiegel.de; – Islam vs.Islamism [Video], In: Is Islamism Anti Islam?, israelsixty, 30.03.2008, URL: http://www.israelsixty.blogspot.com; – Muslims against Sharia, Islamic Reform Movement; – Robert Spencer: The Fitna Firestorm, In: PajamasMedia, 31.03.2008, URL: pajamamedia.com. [...]
Apr 1, 2008 - 6:17 pm 31. venividivici:an act of political propaganda made by a Dutch political leader trying to reduce the multidimensionality of the lives of Muslims
Ha! What kind of multidimensionality can Muslims possibly have when every detail of their lives is taken up by Islam? Isn’t Islam supposed to be a “total way of life”? A religion based on the sayings and doings of one man is “multidimensional”? Sounds more like the definition of unidimensional. Muslims certainly all seem to do the same thing following Friday “services”, i.e. burn flags and chant “Death to America”, “Death to Israel”. Talk about boring.
Apr 1, 2008 - 7:03 pm 32. Fitna Fallout::[...] admin • April 1, 2008 Blah blah blah. Nobody likes Fitna.From PajamasMedia: Protests have instead been official. Iran and Pakistan lodged formal complaints — Iran with [...]
Apr 1, 2008 - 8:12 pm 33. Sheila:What Gerald fails to grasp is that (and let’s stretch our imaginations for a few seconds….)even if the average muslim does not agree with the practices of the so called “few” fundamentalists, very very few “moderate” muslims(except of a couple of notable and courageous exceptions) speak out against the heinous and inhumane acts carried out in the name of Islam.
The average Catholic will hav e no problem speaking out against the Church’s outdated views on, say, homosexuality, etc, etc. The Archbishops will not call out for him to be beheaded.
To simpleandhumble – Shame on You. How dare you try to justify even ONE violent passage in the Koran. Even if it is one out of ten million it’s one too much.
The fact of the matter is, even if the fundamentalists are in the minority (which I sincerely do not believe is the case), this minority has the capacity to cause untold horror.
Apr 2, 2008 - 1:46 am 34. RE:What some muslims completely fail to realize the absurdity of the assumption that each of us is going to go through a process of ‘is he or isn’t he? every time we encounter a muslim. Amongst other reasons, It simply is not practical when the core tenets of your ideology is the subordination and oppression of anyone who doesn’t sign up for your belief system.
Guilt by association? You bet is is! It is entirely appropriate. Islam is as Islam does.
The onus is not on freedom loving Westerners to sort out your bad apples while you practice your taqiyya.
Apr 2, 2008 - 6:15 am 35. M.E.:Hate in all its forms is essence of Islam, like of all ideologies. It isn’t casual that Europeans, that have generated the most monstrous ideologies of absolute and universal Hate, like communism and fascism, feel so much sympathy for Islam and justify its crimes.
Apr 2, 2008 - 7:05 am 36. tanstaafl:To claim that the average euromuslim has something to do with fundamentalist extremists, just because he is a muslim, is just as outrageous as claiming that the average white American has something to do with the KKK, because he is a white American…It is just the vicious implication, that this concerns the average law-abiding euromuslim, which is outright wrong.
I don’t recall that Fitna indicts the “average euromuslim” in the way you allude. In fact, I recall at least one statement in the film directly contradicting that.
Most of us in “the west”, however, fault the “average euromuslim” and their imams and leaders for not speaking out sufficiently and vociferously against the agenda of Radical Islam.
I saw a group of British imams speaking to this topic, and, one could surmise that at least some of them felt themselves fearful and intimidated at the idea of condemning the Islamists who use 1400 year old passages in an attempt to rationalize slaughter of the “unbeliever” in the here and now.
There are other Muslim religious leaders (and followers) in Europe who, undoubtedly, tacitly or clandestinely, support the Radical agenda.
Fitna also has a few statements (straight from the horses’ mouths) of the ultimate agenda of takeover of Europe and (let’s face it) the world at large.
Radical Islam wants nothing more than to reinstate the (imagined) glorious days Islam formerly enjoyed.
Apr 2, 2008 - 8:52 am 37. Gerald:To sheila, Apr 2, 2008 – 1:46:
We all agree on the fundamentalist part. Basically, your reproach to muslims in general, reduces to the one that the average muslim does not speak out against crimes which are being done in the name of islam. That is a long way from the view that European islamic practice is inherently fundamentalist or violent!
When asked, the majority of euromuslims are clearly against, to name 2 examples, the 9/11 and Madrid bombing acts. The 2006 Gallup poll is widely quoted (and, probably, bashed). Their methodology is acceptable, however. There are some summaries on their site http://media.gallup.com/WorldPoll/PDF/GALLUP+MUSLIM+STUDIES_Moderate+v+Extremist+Views_11.13.06_FINAL.pdf . You say that the average Catholic has no problem speaking out against abuse etc.. Well, neither has the average muslim: It is clear that there is no acquiescence.
So, this leaves us the reproach, that euromuslims are supposed to actively go out and speak out. Well, they, themselves, of course, because their political representatives in the parliaments in Europe have already done that. Muslims vote the same parties as everybody else in Europe. You must agree that the most logical way to influence society is to vote the party which represents your ideas best. Your requirement seems to be, that they do not just let the europoliticians speak for them, but that they must do something extra, because they happen to be muslim.
I could have done better than a parallel with Catholics in the above posting, because in large parts of europe, christians are christians in name only. But, OK, when asked, all catholics are against the acts of priest-pedophiles. But how many have taken to the streets to protest against it ? You just leave the case to the police! Should we say “very very few “moderate” christians(except of a couple of notable and courageous exceptions) speak out against” this abuse ? Come on …
Let me speculate. You expect millions of euromuslims to take to the streets and protest against extremism which is carried out in the name of Islam ? Huh ? Don’t you think that they are taking part, like the rest of us, in demonstrations against ANY kind of extremism ? To be honest, I have never taken part in any protest against the Lord’s Resistance Army, nor have I publicly spoken out against priests who manage to come close to little boys under the church’s cover. In Europe, there already is a consensus on all these issues.
Do not let yourself be guided by fear. There are extremists among muslims in Europe. Just as there is a non-negligeable percentage of the population, which favour extreme right, or left wing parties. Given Europe’s history, this shouldn’t be forgotten. But it is manageable. And Europe can manage it, and, at the same time, preserve its ideals of respect, personal freedom, diversity, and protection of the individual.
Apr 2, 2008 - 10:31 am 38. Gerald:Oops. phrase “Even there, we can read this.” dropped. The Gallup poll-part is for muslim countries.
Apr 2, 2008 - 10:52 am 39. tanstaafl:Some Muslim leaders have even noted that the response within Islam itself against co-optation by a radical agenda (and attendant vicious acts of violence) has not been loud enough, strong enough or prolonged enough.
There are even Some Muslims
who argue that those antiquated and bellicose passages from the Koran (on which the radicals rely) ought to be excised from the book.
Apr 2, 2008 - 12:55 pm 40. Amani:“Offensively anti-Islamic … there is no justification for hate speech or incitement to violence”—Ban Ki-moo
“Offensively anti-Islamic” ??? Did Ki-moo know that real Muslim leaders are the stars of this film? Did he know that the forage of this film was taken and posted in the web by Muslims who wanted to promote jihad?
Does Ban Ki-moo even know what is he taking about? What hate speech? Who hates who?? Did he know that when the Dutch cartoonist drew his cartons in Holland Christians were killed in Nigeria! Is he promoting victimisation???
“Incitement of violence” ??? Who is committing violence.. and when opposed … committing more violence??? Is he promoting bulling??
Is he going to make any comment about the right of people to oppose jihad, killing of non-Muslims, bulling and false superiority??
Blessings,
Apr 2, 2008 - 7:54 pm 41. Steynianism 100 « Free Mark Steyn!:[...] to threats posed by Islamic extremists. International reaction to the film helped prove his point; The Fitna Firestorm …. [...]
Apr 3, 2008 - 9:17 am 42. DP111:I suppose there are just a few percentage points of violent passages in Mein Kamph.
Another instance is the US constitution – a short document that lays out clearly what the requirements are for a free people in a free state.
In short, it is not the number, but the imperative of those passages in the Koran that count.
The fact remains that Muslims are creating mayhem wherever they are in non-Muslim countries. From the Phillipines to USA, the world is in fear of the tiny minority of Muslims that are in a non-Muslim nation.
It is fear and fear alone that is driving the politicians and people of the West. But sooner or later that fear will turn to anger. In that event, Muslims will immediately start to portray themselves as victims. It is this dual-faced nature of Islam, unlike the proverbial leopard, that has come to the rescue of Islam when it has been threatened with extinction.
We are not going to see the end of Islam as a force for some time, until we understand the double-faced nature of Islam and how it operates.
Apr 3, 2008 - 4:19 pm 43. Beth:The best way to see if FITNA is true versus propaganda is to watch Muslim ACTIONS worldwide. I recommend Jihadwatch, Memri, and SITE. FITNA is lightweight compared to what goes on in the Muslim world on a daily basis.
“There is no moderate Islam, there is only Islam”.
Apr 4, 2008 - 8:35 am 44. Tonto (USA):How cool! Wilder chose a couple of the 109 verses of the koran that demand violence, a few clips of your run of the mill muslim clerics preaching jihad and got the leaders of muslim nations all excited. Think the muslims are trying to hide the fact that they advocate terror, murder, rape, slavery, beatings and repression of women, not to mention, suicide bombings and mass murder? Looks like it to me. I’ll bet if we get a few more of these, they won’t be able to sneak up on us anymore.
Apr 4, 2008 - 8:43 am 45. Tonto (USA):That lil ole flick did get me excited some, but I ain’t fitna load my guns and go lookin’ for jihadis yet.
Apr 4, 2008 - 8:45 am 46. Michael Canzano:Why is it the only people offended by truths are liars. Americans make fun of everybody and everything . It is called having a sense of humor. Humor eases tension. The humor gene , through centuries of violence and hatred has been systemtically deleted from Muslims by Islam and their prophet, with the bomb in his turban.
Apr 5, 2008 - 9:07 am 47. Kemosabe:We enjoy laughing. Muslims enjoy hating and killing Jews and Infidels and amazingly they also enjoy hating and killing diferent sects of their own religion.
American Christian Infidel
Tonto! That ruled! LOL!
Apr 7, 2008 - 10:37 am 48. Russell Carter:This short clip is nothing but the truth. I applaud Geert Wilders for showing the world the truth about Muslims and the Muslim world. All they want to do is bring terror to our once peaceful world. If you think about it, every single problem in the world can be traced to Islam and Muslims. I think Europe and all Western countries should kick them all out and send them back to their countries. For some reason, they go to foreign countries and try to change their system of government and their laws and traditions which is something unacceptable. Why should I have to see them covered from head to toe when I go to the mall? Why should I see their long disgusting beards?? This clip is brilliant! A masterpiece I must say!
Apr 8, 2008 - 7:28 pm 49. Anna:Well yes Gerald, we are guided by fear !You bet !! Now how unreasonable we are to fear Jihadi’s eh,?death, enslavement, abuse of women,sharia barbarity in all forms and all other 7th century practices they want to force upon us!Oh yes I am also sure most muslims disagree with terrorism and other atrocities perpetrated in the name of allah(are you actually on this planet, are you aware of muslim violence and hatred all over the globe, burning churches and rioting, killing ??!!!)
but they hardly come out in droves to convince us
do they? And given the choice who do you think they would follow?
Wilders does not show hatred. He exposes islams hatred of us!!!!!..their obvious death wish to us
Apr 13, 2008 - 3:46 pm 50. Geert Wilders schockiert mit seinem Kurzfilm "Fitna" | andersdenken20:in bloodcurdling sermons by Muslims themselves!
it could not be clearer surely
[...] Robert Spencer: The Fitna Firestorm, In: PajamasMedia, 31.03.2008, URL: pajamamedia.com. [...]
Jul 13, 2008 - 10:03 am 51. Kuwait prepares jihad against the internet » Winds Of Jihad:[...] Once one understands that concept of slander, it is easier to see why Muslims in the West so quickly and easily characterize speech about the jihad and Islamic supremacism as slanderous and insulting to Islam, even when what has been said is demonstrably accurate: one notable case was CAIR’s war against National Review, and another was Al-Arabiya’s attack on my book The Truth About Muhammad, but the crowning example is the response to Geert Wilders’ film Fitna. [...]
Aug 3, 2008 - 4:11 am 52. Der Kern des muslimischen Beleidigtentums « abseits vom mainstream - heplev:[...] Hat man das Konzept der üblen Nachrede erst einmal verstanden, dann ist es einfacher zu begreifen, warum Muslime im Westen so schnell und einfach alles Reden über Jihad und islamische Überlegenheitsansprüche als verleumderisch und den Islam beleidigend charakterisiert wird, selbst wenn das Gesagte beweisbar korrekt ist. Ein bemerkenswerter Fall war der der Klage von CAIR gegen die National Review; ein weiterer war der Angriff von Al-Arabiya auf mein Buch The Truth About Muhammad [Die Wahrheit über Mohammed], aber das krönende Beispiel ist die Antwort auf Geert Wilders’ Film Fitna. [...]
Aug 3, 2008 - 9:36 am 53. Kuwait criminalizes “insulting Islam” on the Internet | Infidels Are Cool:[...] attack on my book The Truth About Muhammad, but the crowning example is the response to Geert Wilders’ film Fitna. var gaJsHost = ((”https:” == document.location.protocol) ? “https://ssl.” : “http://www.”); [...]
Aug 3, 2008 - 11:31 am 54. Quote someone inaccurately, you’re a journalist. Quote someone accurately, you’re a hatemonger | Infidels Are Cool:[...] For this, Charlie Gibson ought to be run out of town on the Dan Rather Express, and no one should mistake him any longer for a credible and even-handed journalist. But the incident put me in mind of the fact that whenever I or other anti-jihadists quote from Islamic texts, we’re accused of being “hatemongers,” “Islamophobic,” “bigots,” etc. This happens even when our quotes are accurate. See, for example, here, here and here. [...]
Sep 12, 2008 - 11:14 am 55. Fasten your seatbelts: UN passes measure limiting free speech » Winds Of Jihad:[...] that’s just it. Here, here and here are three examples of Islamic groups regarding truestatements about Islam as [...]
Nov 25, 2008 - 7:57 am 56. Huge victory for the stealth jihad: UN passes measure limiting free speech - Trackpads Community:[...] than just an offensive one. It is also a statement that is false." And that’s just it. Here, here and here are three examples of Islamic groups regarding true statements about Islam as defamatory. [...]
Nov 26, 2008 - 2:40 pm 57. Defying Reality At The Wall Street Journal » Winds Of Jihad:[...] or not in depicting how jihadists make use of the Qur’an to justify violence? See the answer here. Having his own party liberates Mr. Wilders to speak his mind. As he sees it, the West suffers from [...]
Nov 29, 2008 - 5:05 pm 58. Charles:I purchased a Quran myself just to educate myself on its content . You are writing the absolute truth as to the contents of the Quran!
Nov 29, 2008 - 9:10 pm 59. belikewater:The religion of peace.
http://etext.virginia.edu/toc/modeng/public/HolKora.html
“5.51″: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
“2.191″: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
“4.34″: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
Feb 28, 2009 - 11:42 pm 60. CAIR demands reprimand of radio hosts who told the truth :: International Free Press Society:[...] is not the first time that Islamic groups have become outraged over what were essentially accurate statements about [...]
Apr 8, 2009 - 3:33 pm 61. Does God Hate Women? « Islamophobes United:[...] And if that outrage does indeed materialize, this will be yet another case, as here and here and here, of Muslims becoming outraged over accurate representations of Islamic texts and teachings. [...]
Jun 1, 2009 - 1:22 am