Comments on: The Gaza War: Is It Really So Hard to Understand? http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-gaza-war-is-it-really-so-hard-to-understand/ Fri, 27 Nov 2009 08:00:53 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Mellisa http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-gaza-war-is-it-really-so-hard-to-understand/comment-page-2/#comment-247559 Mellisa Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:12:03 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=42884#comment-247559 15. Brain Dain I have something for you - how can you go insulting one's religion when it has NOTHING to do with the war!And for inventions I have a list that will clean your ass!If you have the guts read it! 1) Coffee The story goes that an Arab named Khalid was tending his goats in the Kaffa region of southern Ethiopia, when he noticed his animals became livelier after eating a certain berry. He boiled the berries to make the first coffee. Certainly the first record of the drink is of beans exported from Ethiopia to Yemen where Sufis drank it to stay awake all night to pray on special occasions. By the late 15th century it had arrived in Mecca and Turkey from where it made its way to Venice in 1645. It was brought to England in 1650 by a Turk named Pasqua Rosee who opened the first coffee house in Lombard Street in the City of London.The Arabic qahwa became the Turkish kahve then the Italian caffé and then English coffee. 2) Pin-Hole Camera The ancient Greeks thought our eyes emitted rays, like a laser, which enabled us to see. The first person to realise that light enters the eye, rather than leaving it, was the 10th-century Muslim mathematician, astronomer and physicist Ibn al-Haitham. He invented the first pin-hole camera after noticing the way light came through a hole in window shutters. The smaller the hole, the better the picture, he worked out, and set up the first Camera Obscura (from the Arab word qamara for a dark or private room). He is also credited with being the first man to shift physics from a philosophical activity to an experimental one. 3) Chess A form of chess was played in ancient India but the game was developed into the form we know it today in Persia. From there it spread westward to Europe - where it was introduced by the Moors in Spain in the 10th century - and eastward as far as Japan. The word rook comes from the Persian rukh, which means chariot. 4) Parachute A thousand years before the Wright brothers a Muslim poet, astronomer, musician and engineer named Abbas ibn Firnas made several attempts to construct a flying machine. In 852 he jumped from the minaret of the Grand Mosque in Cordoba using a loose cloak stiffened with wooden struts. He hoped to glide like a bird. He didn't. But the cloak slowed his fall, creating what is thought to be the first parachute, and leaving him with only minor injuries. In 875, aged 70, having perfected a machine of silk and eagles' feathers he tried again, jumping from a mountain. He flew to a significant height and stayed aloft for ten minutes but crashed on landing - concluding, correctly, that it was because he had not given his device a tail so it would stall on landing.Baghdad international airport and a crater on the Moon are named after him. 5) Shampoo Washing and bathing are religious requirements for Muslims, which is perhaps why they perfected the recipe for soap which we still use today. The ancient Egyptians had soap of a kind, as did the Romans who used it more as a pomade. But it was the Arabs who combined vegetable oils with sodium hydroxide and aromatics such as thyme oil. One of the Crusaders' most striking characteristics, to Arab nostrils, was that they did not wash. Shampoo was introduced to England by a Muslim who opened Mahomed's Indian Vapour Baths on Brighton seafront in 1759 and was appointed Shampooing Surgeon to Kings George IV and William IV. 6) Refinement Distillation, the means of separating liquids through differences in their boiling points, was invented around the year 800 by Islam's foremost scientist, Jabir ibn Hayyan, who transformed alchemy into chemistry, inventing many of the basic processes and apparatus still in use today - liquefaction, crystallisation, distillation, purification, oxidisation, evaporation and filtration. As well as discovering sulphuric and nitric acid, he invented the alembic still, giving the world intense rosewater and other perfumes and alcoholic spirits (although drinking them is haram, or forbidden, in Islam). Ibn Hayyan emphasised systematic experimentation and was the founder of modern chemistry. 7) Shaft The crank-shaft is a device which translates rotary into linear motion and is central to much of the machinery in the modern world, not least the internal combustion engine. One of the most important mechanical inventions in the history of humankind, it was created by an ingenious Muslim engineer called al-Jazari to raise water for irrigation. His 1206 Book of Knowledge of Ingenious Mechanical Devices shows he also invented or refined the use of valves and pistons, devised some of the first mechanical clocks driven by water and weights, and was the father of robotics. Among his 50 other inventions was the combination lock. ) Metal Armor Quilting is a method of sewing or tying two layers of cloth with a layer of insulating material in between. It is not clear whether it was invented in the Muslim world or whether it was imported there from India or China. But it certainly came to the West via the Crusaders. They saw it used by Saracen warriors, who wore straw-filled quilted canvas shirts instead of armour. As well as a form of protection, it proved an effective guard against the chafing of the Crusaders' metal armour and was an effective form of insulation - so much so that it became a cottage industry back home in colder climates such as Britain and Holland. 9) Pointed Arch The pointed arch so characteristic of Europe's Gothic cathedrals was an invention borrowed from Islamic architecture. It was much stronger than the rounded arch used by the Romans and Normans, thus allowing the building of bigger, higher, more complex and grander buildings. Other borrowings from Muslim genius included ribbed vaulting, rose windows and dome-building techniques. Europe's castles were also adapted to copy the Islamic world's - with arrow slits, battlements, a barbican and parapets. Square towers and keeps gave way to more easily defended round ones. Henry V's castle architect was a Muslim. 10) Surgery Many modern surgical instruments are of exactly the same design as those devised in the 10th century by a Muslim surgeon called al-Zahrawi. His scalpels, bone saws, forceps, fine scissors for eye surgery and many of the 200 instruments he devised are recognisable to a modern surgeon. It was he who discovered that catgut used for internal stitches dissolves away naturally (a discovery he made when his monkey ate his lute strings) and that it can be also used to make medicine capsules. In the 13th century, another Muslim medic named Ibn Nafis described the circulation of the blood, 300 years before William Harvey discovered it. Muslims doctors also invented anaesthetics of opium and alcohol mixes and developed hollow needles to suck cataracts from eyes in a technique still used today 11) Windmill The windmill was invented in 634 for a Persian caliph and was used to grind corn and draw up water for irrigation. In the vast deserts of Arabia, when the seasonal streams ran dry, the only source of power was the wind which blew steadily from one direction for months. Mills had six or 12 sails covered in fabric or palm leaves. It was 500 years before the first windmill was seen in Europe. 12) Vaccination The technique of inoculation was not invented by Jenner and Pasteur but was devised in the Muslim world and brought to Europe from Turkey by the wife of the English ambassador to Istanbul in 1724. Children in Turkey were vaccinated with cowpox to fight the deadly smallpox at least 50 years before the West discovered it. 13) Fountain Pen The fountain pen was invented for the Sultan of Egypt in 953 after he demanded a pen which would not stain his hands or clothes. It held ink in a reservoir and, as with modern pens, fed ink to the nib by a combination of gravity and capillary action. 14) Numerical Numbering The system of numbering in use all round the world is probably Indian in origin but the style of the numerals is Arabic and first appears in print in the work of the Muslim mathematicians al-Khwarizmi and al-Kindi around 825. Algebra was named after al-Khwarizmi's book, Al-Jabr wa-al-Muqabilah, much of whose contents are still in use. The work of Muslim maths scholars was imported into Europe 300 years later by the Italian mathematician Fibonacci. Algorithms and much of the theory of trigonometry came from the Muslim world. And Al-Kindi's discovery of frequency analysis rendered all the codes of the ancient world soluble and created the basis of modern cryptology. 15) Soup Ali ibn Nafi, known by his nickname of Ziryab (Blackbird) came from Iraq to Cordoba in the 9th century and brought with him the concept of the three-course meal - soup, followed by fish or meat, then fruit and nuts. He also introduced crystal glasses (which had been invented after experiments with rock crystal by Abbas ibn Firnas - see No 4). 17) Pay Cheques The modern cheque comes from the Arabic saqq, a written vow to pay for goods when they were delivered, to avoid money having to be transported across dangerous terrain. In the 9th century, a Muslim businessman could cash a cheque in China drawn on his bank in Baghdad. 18) Earch is in sphere shape? By the 9th century, many Muslim scholars took it for granted that the Earth was a sphere. The proof, said astronomer Ibn Hazm, "is that the Sun is always vertical to a particular spot on Earth". It was 500 years before that realisation dawned on Galileo. The calculations of Muslim astronomers were so accurate that in the 9th century they reckoned the Earth's circumference to be 40, 253.4km - less than 200km out. The scholar al-Idrisi took a globe depicting the world to the court of King Roger of Sicily in 1139. 19) Rocket and Torpedo Though the Chinese invented saltpetre gunpowder, and used it in their fireworks, it was the Arabs who worked out that it could be purified using potassium nitrate for military use. Muslim incendiary devices terrified the Crusaders. By the 15th century they had invented both a rocket, which they called a "self-moving and combusting egg", and a torpedo - a self-propelled pear-shaped bomb with a spear at the front which impaled itself in enemy ships and then blew up. 20) Gardens Medieval Europe had kitchen and herb gardens, but it was the Arabs who developed the idea of the garden as a place of beauty and meditation. The first royal pleasure gardens in Europe were opened in 11th-century Muslim Spain. Flowers which originated in Muslim gardens include the carnation and the tulip. As for the head cutting - I don't even know if that's true or not, but its to teach the other citizens that crime is not permisable and they learn a lesson. And umm know your weapons before you attakc brain dain! Seriously. 15. Brain Dain

I have something for you – how can you go insulting one’s religion when it has NOTHING to do with the war!And for inventions I have a list that will clean your ass!If you have the guts read it!

1) Coffee
The story goes that an Arab named Khalid was tending his goats in the Kaffa region of southern Ethiopia, when he noticed his animals became livelier after eating a certain berry. He boiled the berries to make the first coffee. Certainly the first record of the drink is of beans exported from Ethiopia to Yemen where Sufis drank it to stay awake all night to pray on special occasions. By the late 15th century it had arrived in Mecca and Turkey from where it made its way to Venice in 1645. It was brought to England in 1650 by a Turk named Pasqua Rosee who opened the first coffee house in Lombard Street in the City of London.The Arabic qahwa became the Turkish kahve then the Italian caffé and then English coffee.

2) Pin-Hole Camera
The ancient Greeks thought our eyes emitted rays, like a laser, which enabled us to see. The first person to realise that light enters the eye, rather than leaving it, was the 10th-century Muslim mathematician, astronomer and physicist Ibn al-Haitham. He invented the first pin-hole camera after noticing the way light came through a hole in window shutters. The smaller the hole, the better the picture, he worked out, and set up the first Camera Obscura (from the Arab word qamara for a dark or private room). He is also credited with being the first man to shift physics from a philosophical activity to an experimental one.

3) Chess
A form of chess was played in ancient India but the game was developed into the form we know it today in Persia. From there it spread westward to Europe – where it was introduced by the Moors in Spain in the 10th century – and eastward as far as Japan. The word rook comes from the Persian rukh, which means chariot.

4) Parachute
A thousand years before the Wright brothers a Muslim poet, astronomer, musician and engineer named Abbas ibn Firnas made several attempts to construct a flying machine. In 852 he jumped from the minaret of the Grand Mosque in Cordoba using a loose cloak stiffened with wooden struts. He hoped to glide like a bird. He didn’t. But the cloak slowed his fall, creating what is thought to be the first parachute, and leaving him with only minor injuries. In 875, aged 70, having perfected a machine of silk and eagles’ feathers he tried again, jumping from a mountain. He flew to a significant height and stayed aloft for ten minutes but crashed on landing – concluding, correctly, that it was because he had not given his device a tail so it would stall on landing.Baghdad international airport and a crater on the Moon are named after him.

5) Shampoo
Washing and bathing are religious requirements for Muslims, which is perhaps why they perfected the recipe for soap which we still use today. The ancient Egyptians had soap of a kind, as did the Romans who used it more as a pomade. But it was the Arabs who combined vegetable oils with sodium hydroxide and aromatics such as thyme oil. One of the Crusaders’ most striking characteristics, to Arab nostrils, was that they did not wash. Shampoo was introduced to England by a Muslim who opened Mahomed’s Indian Vapour Baths on Brighton seafront in 1759 and was appointed Shampooing Surgeon to Kings George IV and William IV.

6) Refinement
Distillation, the means of separating liquids through differences in their boiling points, was invented around the year 800 by Islam’s foremost scientist, Jabir ibn Hayyan, who transformed alchemy into chemistry, inventing many of the basic processes and apparatus still in use today – liquefaction, crystallisation, distillation, purification, oxidisation, evaporation and filtration. As well as discovering sulphuric and nitric acid, he invented the alembic still, giving the world intense rosewater and other perfumes and alcoholic spirits (although drinking them is haram, or forbidden, in Islam). Ibn Hayyan emphasised systematic experimentation and was the founder of modern chemistry.

7) Shaft
The crank-shaft is a device which translates rotary into linear motion and is central to much of the machinery in the modern world, not least the internal combustion engine. One of the most important mechanical inventions in the history of humankind, it was created by an ingenious Muslim engineer called al-Jazari to raise water for irrigation. His 1206 Book of Knowledge of Ingenious Mechanical Devices shows he also invented or refined the use of valves and pistons, devised some of the first mechanical clocks driven by water and weights, and was the father of robotics. Among his 50 other inventions was the combination lock.

) Metal Armor
Quilting is a method of sewing or tying two layers of cloth with a layer of insulating material in between. It is not clear whether it was invented in the Muslim world or whether it was imported there from India or China. But it certainly came to the West via the Crusaders. They saw it used by Saracen warriors, who wore straw-filled quilted canvas shirts instead of armour. As well as a form of protection, it proved an effective guard against the chafing of the Crusaders’ metal armour and was an effective form of insulation – so much so that it became a cottage industry back home in colder climates such as Britain and Holland.

9) Pointed Arch
The pointed arch so characteristic of Europe’s Gothic cathedrals was an invention borrowed from Islamic architecture. It was much stronger than the rounded arch used by the Romans and Normans, thus allowing the building of bigger, higher, more complex and grander buildings. Other borrowings from Muslim genius included ribbed vaulting, rose windows and dome-building techniques. Europe’s castles were also adapted to copy the Islamic world’s – with arrow slits, battlements, a barbican and parapets. Square towers and keeps gave way to more easily defended round ones. Henry V’s castle architect was a Muslim.

10) Surgery
Many modern surgical instruments are of exactly the same design as those devised in the 10th century by a Muslim surgeon called al-Zahrawi. His scalpels, bone saws, forceps, fine scissors for eye surgery and many of the 200 instruments he devised are recognisable to a modern surgeon. It was he who discovered that catgut used for internal stitches dissolves away naturally (a discovery he made when his monkey ate his lute strings) and that it can be also used to make medicine capsules. In the 13th century, another Muslim medic named Ibn Nafis described the circulation of the blood, 300 years before William Harvey discovered it. Muslims doctors also invented anaesthetics of opium and alcohol mixes and developed hollow needles to suck cataracts from eyes in a technique still used today

11) Windmill
The windmill was invented in 634 for a Persian caliph and was used to grind corn and draw up water for irrigation. In the vast deserts of Arabia, when the seasonal streams ran dry, the only source of power was the wind which blew steadily from one direction for months. Mills had six or 12 sails covered in fabric or palm leaves. It was 500 years before the first windmill was seen in Europe.

12) Vaccination
The technique of inoculation was not invented by Jenner and Pasteur but was devised in the Muslim world and brought to Europe from Turkey by the wife of the English ambassador to Istanbul in 1724. Children in Turkey were vaccinated with cowpox to fight the deadly smallpox at least 50 years before the West discovered it.

13) Fountain Pen
The fountain pen was invented for the Sultan of Egypt in 953 after he demanded a pen which would not stain his hands or clothes. It held ink in a reservoir and, as with modern pens, fed ink to the nib by a combination of gravity and capillary action.

14) Numerical Numbering
The system of numbering in use all round the world is probably Indian in origin but the style of the numerals is Arabic and first appears in print in the work of the Muslim mathematicians al-Khwarizmi and al-Kindi around 825. Algebra was named after al-Khwarizmi’s book, Al-Jabr wa-al-Muqabilah, much of whose contents are still in use. The work of Muslim maths scholars was imported into Europe 300 years later by the Italian mathematician Fibonacci. Algorithms and much of the theory of trigonometry came from the Muslim world. And Al-Kindi’s discovery of frequency analysis rendered all the codes of the ancient world soluble and created the basis of modern cryptology.

15) Soup
Ali ibn Nafi, known by his nickname of Ziryab (Blackbird) came from Iraq to Cordoba in the 9th century and brought with him the concept of the three-course meal – soup, followed by fish or meat, then fruit and nuts. He also introduced crystal glasses (which had been invented after experiments with rock crystal by Abbas ibn Firnas – see No 4).

17) Pay Cheques
The modern cheque comes from the Arabic saqq, a written vow to pay for goods when they were delivered, to avoid money having to be transported across dangerous terrain. In the 9th century, a Muslim businessman could cash a cheque in China drawn on his bank in Baghdad.

18) Earch is in sphere shape?
By the 9th century, many Muslim scholars took it for granted that the Earth was a sphere. The proof, said astronomer Ibn Hazm, “is that the Sun is always vertical to a particular spot on Earth”. It was 500 years before that realisation dawned on Galileo. The calculations of Muslim astronomers were so accurate that in the 9th century they reckoned the Earth’s circumference to be 40, 253.4km – less than 200km out. The scholar al-Idrisi took a globe depicting the world to the court of King Roger of Sicily in 1139.

19) Rocket and Torpedo
Though the Chinese invented saltpetre gunpowder, and used it in their fireworks, it was the Arabs who worked out that it could be purified using potassium nitrate for military use. Muslim incendiary devices terrified the Crusaders. By the 15th century they had invented both a rocket, which they called a “self-moving and combusting egg”, and a torpedo – a self-propelled pear-shaped bomb with a spear at the front which impaled itself in enemy ships and then blew up.

20) Gardens
Medieval Europe had kitchen and herb gardens, but it was the Arabs who developed the idea of the garden as a place of beauty and meditation. The first royal pleasure gardens in Europe were opened in 11th-century Muslim Spain. Flowers which originated in Muslim gardens include the carnation and the tulip.

As for the head cutting – I don’t even know if that’s true or not, but its to teach the
other citizens that crime is not permisable and they learn a lesson. And umm know your weapons before you attakc
brain dain! Seriously.

]]> By: nick http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-gaza-war-is-it-really-so-hard-to-understand/comment-page-2/#comment-186165 nick Fri, 16 Jan 2009 23:04:46 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=42884#comment-186165 Israelis should go back to their original homeland in eastern europe and Russia and give up Palestinia lands to their original owners. Everybody knows That christians,muslimans and orient jews been living in peace since Moses Saved the lives of children of Israel from Faros of Egypt and everyone should Be O.K. Israelis should go back to their original homeland in eastern europe and Russia and give up Palestinia lands to their original owners. Everybody knows
That christians,muslimans and orient jews been living in peace since Moses
Saved the lives of children of Israel from Faros of Egypt and everyone should
Be O.K.

]]> By: starkey http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-gaza-war-is-it-really-so-hard-to-understand/comment-page-2/#comment-185660 starkey Fri, 16 Jan 2009 11:18:52 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=42884#comment-185660 So now Israel has bombed the UNRWA Headquarters, destroying tens of millions of dollars' worth of food and medical supplies. The UNRWA spokesman denies categorically that militants were firing from the building. Israel has also bombed a building housing the Gaza offices of Reuters, Fox, and other media organizations. Great tactics - tell the world how compassionate you are to be letting humanitarian aid into Gaza, "no other country in the world would do this for the enemy, blah, blah," and then bomb it all. The death toll is over 1100 in Gaza now, and the names of the dead children are beginning to be released. Israel will never recover from this, who can believe their lies and spin ever again? So now Israel has bombed the UNRWA Headquarters, destroying tens of millions of dollars’ worth of food and medical supplies. The UNRWA spokesman denies categorically that militants were firing from the building. Israel has also bombed a building housing the Gaza offices of Reuters, Fox, and other media organizations.

Great tactics – tell the world how compassionate you are to be letting humanitarian aid into Gaza, “no other country in the world would do this for the enemy, blah, blah,” and then bomb it all.

The death toll is over 1100 in Gaza now, and the names of the dead children are beginning to be released. Israel will never recover from this, who can believe their lies and spin ever again?

]]> By: Graham Sullivan http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-gaza-war-is-it-really-so-hard-to-understand/comment-page-2/#comment-182966 Graham Sullivan Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:46:26 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=42884#comment-182966 The recent events suggest that Hamas are progressively out-manouvering Israel in the war of perception. The arguement of 'who is terrorising who' and 'who is defending from whose agression' go the core of both Palestine and Israeli existence. Recent actions have significantly undermined the previously dominant Israeli position here- and it is hard to see how they might regain the moral high ground again. It is in this war that the UN's and ultimately the US's involvement will be revolve around. The US abstention in the security council ceasefire resolution is a significant signal that it cannot provide indefinite support in the face of global repudiation of Israel's position. The Israeli endgame of eradicating Hamas through a decisive military victory severely calls into question the ability of the IDF to competently advise their political partners. Despite the Israeli closure of Gaza to journalists it has been impossible to restrict the wider world catching glimpses of the horrendous situation that is being perpetrated. As a result Israel has been forced to defend the IDF's actions to world and also to its key sponsors- the US and the UN. This is where Hamas have inflicted the real damage. Forced onto the back foot the Israel PR machine has been pushed into the realms of blatent miss-information and increasing irrelevance. Its credibility has been severely damaged, and continues to be by such revelations as the Israeli forced admissions to the UN of shelling a packed school building, while categorically denying it in public. Its public denials regarding its illegal use of white phosphorus in dense civilan areas have been found to similarly miss-leading. Hamas's relative silence and primary reliance on directly reported imagery really has blown apart Israel's strategy of restricting reporting and conducting a 'talking offensive'. The debate has been altered to such an extent that it is now no longer credible to consider Hamas an 'Agent of Terror' without putting the IDF in the same frame- access to weaponry being the more fundamental difference than intent to perpetrate fear. One has terrorised and killed 3 civilians firing handmade rockets at several small towns, the other has terrorised and killed over 500 people and wounded over 3000 using 21st century guided missiles and weaponry within one of the densest urban areas in the world. Similarly the Palestinian claim that its actions are ‘defensive’ against a long term aggressor that has threatened it territorially, economically, humanitarianly and ultimately existentially, are very much more plausible than those of Israel. There is little doubt as to whether the current predicament of Israel or Palestine would justify the more concerted defensive action. Poor Mr Regev, the interminable Israeli spokesman, has been sounding increasingly deranged in his desperate attempts to regain the moral high ground. He recently told the BBC that Israel's goals were "very minimalistic" and "purely defensive". The recent events suggest that Hamas are progressively out-manouvering Israel in the war of perception.

The arguement of ‘who is terrorising who’ and ‘who is defending from whose agression’ go the core of both Palestine and Israeli existence. Recent actions have significantly undermined the previously dominant Israeli position here- and it is hard to see how they might regain the moral high ground again.

It is in this war that the UN’s and ultimately the US’s involvement will be revolve around. The US abstention in the security council ceasefire resolution is a significant signal that it cannot provide indefinite support in the face of global repudiation of Israel’s position.

The Israeli endgame of eradicating Hamas through a decisive military victory severely calls into question the ability of the IDF to competently advise their political partners. Despite the Israeli closure of Gaza to journalists it has been impossible to restrict the wider world catching glimpses of the horrendous situation that is being perpetrated. As a result Israel has been forced to defend the IDF’s actions to world and also to its key sponsors- the US and the UN. This is where Hamas have inflicted the real damage.

Forced onto the back foot the Israel PR machine has been pushed into the realms of blatent miss-information and increasing irrelevance. Its credibility has been severely damaged, and continues to be by such revelations as the Israeli forced admissions to the UN of shelling a packed school building, while categorically denying it in public. Its public denials regarding its illegal use of white phosphorus in dense civilan areas have been found to similarly miss-leading. Hamas’s relative silence and primary reliance on directly reported imagery really has blown apart Israel’s strategy of restricting reporting and conducting a ‘talking offensive’.

The debate has been altered to such an extent that it is now no longer credible to consider Hamas an ‘Agent of Terror’ without putting the IDF in the same frame- access to weaponry being the more fundamental difference than intent to perpetrate fear. One has terrorised and killed 3 civilians firing handmade rockets at several small towns, the other has terrorised and killed over 500 people and wounded over 3000 using 21st century guided missiles and weaponry within one of the densest urban areas in the world. Similarly the Palestinian claim that its actions are ‘defensive’ against a long term aggressor that has threatened it territorially, economically, humanitarianly and ultimately existentially, are very much more plausible than those of Israel. There is little doubt as to whether the current predicament of Israel or Palestine would justify the more concerted defensive action.

Poor Mr Regev, the interminable Israeli spokesman, has been sounding increasingly deranged in his desperate attempts to regain the moral high ground. He recently told the BBC that Israel’s goals were “very minimalistic” and “purely defensive”.

]]> By: starkey http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-gaza-war-is-it-really-so-hard-to-understand/comment-page-2/#comment-182942 starkey Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:20:02 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=42884#comment-182942 Check this link, it will show how the poor, peace-loving Israelis have consistently grabbed Palestinian land over decades. If your land were grabbed like this and the grabbers kept telling the world that you were fighting them for no good reason, I wonder what your reaction would be? http://www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdaily/2009/01/the-shrinking-map-of-palestine.html Check this link, it will show how the poor, peace-loving Israelis have consistently grabbed Palestinian land over decades. If your land were grabbed like this and the grabbers kept telling the world that you were fighting them for no good reason, I wonder what your reaction would be?

http://www.3quarksdaily.com/3quarksdaily/2009/01/the-shrinking-map-of-palestine.html

]]> By: starkey http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-gaza-war-is-it-really-so-hard-to-understand/comment-page-2/#comment-182912 starkey Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:51:13 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=42884#comment-182912 This might help to put things in perspective, it shows how the poor peace-loving Zionists have never had any designs on anyone else's land, and how the Palestinians have no right to complain that they are being slowly squeezed out of existence. It should make a lot of people on this forum very happy. http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/05/10/the-shrinking-map-of-palestine/ This might help to put things in perspective, it shows how the poor peace-loving Zionists have never had any designs on anyone else’s land, and how the Palestinians have no right to complain that they are being slowly squeezed out of existence. It should make a lot of people on this forum very happy.

http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/05/10/the-shrinking-map-of-palestine/

]]> By: Truthwillprevail http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-gaza-war-is-it-really-so-hard-to-understand/comment-page-2/#comment-182497 Truthwillprevail Mon, 12 Jan 2009 01:48:40 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=42884#comment-182497 'be wise' please be wise cause you are either very naive or a zionist - it is israel that wants to wipe out palestine - just look at the regional map since the 1940s. if zion children were being murdered by the 100s as are palestinian children people would also hold protests. This is because there is still much goodness in the world despite the efforts of the dark forces. israel is on a mission and peace is not one of them! ‘be wise’ please be wise cause you are either very naive or a zionist – it is israel that wants to wipe out palestine – just look at the regional map since the 1940s. if zion children were being murdered by the 100s as are palestinian children people would also hold protests. This is because there is still much goodness in the world despite the efforts of the dark forces. israel is on a mission and peace is not one of them!

]]> By: Be Wise http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-gaza-war-is-it-really-so-hard-to-understand/comment-page-2/#comment-182212 Be Wise Sun, 11 Jan 2009 16:45:07 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=42884#comment-182212 To Sana: You could do your own findings of the numbers of deaths and injured for the past 8 years of rockets fired at Israel. Why ask ? Are you trying to justify the numbers of deaths in Gaza are more ever since the war started ? Why don't you protest when rockets are fired at Israel for several years ? Put yourself in the shoe of the Israelites and feel about the rockets landed at your doorstep before you make these comments. Killing seems to do no justice in any sense... however, if this is the perceived way to end the rockets firing at your homeland, do it by all means ! What can you do to bring peace even Israel do not start the war ? I'm sure you can do nothing at all ! In my opinion, peace needs both sides to talk amicably. Hamas stated to wipe out Israel in their agenda, would Israel sit and wait for ultimate destruction ? If you are the Israelite, what would you do ? The answer is obvious and Israel is only doing what a man would do. Go for it Israel !!! To Sana:

You could do your own findings of the numbers of deaths and injured for the past 8 years of rockets fired at Israel.
Why ask ? Are you trying to justify the numbers of deaths in Gaza are more ever since the war started ? Why don’t you protest when rockets are fired at Israel for several years ?

Put yourself in the shoe of the Israelites and feel about the rockets landed at your doorstep before you make these comments.

Killing seems to do no justice in any sense… however, if this is the perceived way to end the rockets firing at your homeland, do it by all means !

What can you do to bring peace even Israel do not start the war ? I’m sure you can do nothing at all !

In my opinion, peace needs both sides to talk amicably. Hamas stated to wipe out Israel in their agenda, would Israel sit and wait for ultimate destruction ? If you are the Israelite, what would you do ?

The answer is obvious and Israel is only doing what a man would do. Go for it Israel !!!

]]> By: Sana http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-gaza-war-is-it-really-so-hard-to-understand/comment-page-2/#comment-181888 Sana Sun, 11 Jan 2009 03:24:24 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=42884#comment-181888 While Almost nine hundred Palestinians are killed so far, and three thousand five hundred are wounded in less than two weeks, some people are still justifying Israel’s right to self-defense. Israel is been attacked by Hamas- they claimed- since eight years. I would like to ask those people, how many causalities Palestinians rockets has made during those eight years? How much destruction did these local-made rockets did cause? I think anyone who keeps close watch on the news would not believe Israel’s allegations on this matter. Nevertheless, what can justify such an extermination! NINE HUNDRED are dead so far, the third of them are children, and “we still in the beginning”- the Israelis announced in cold blood!!! Definitely, Israelis do not care if the war continues. For the last eight years, they have killed more than FIVE THOUSANDS Palestinians, and they intend to kill more. Besides, they do not care because they are using airplanes and tanks, and the big supply of weapons they have never paid for! While Almost nine hundred Palestinians are killed so far, and three thousand five hundred are wounded in less than two weeks, some people are still justifying Israel’s right to self-defense. Israel is been attacked by Hamas- they claimed- since eight years.
I would like to ask those people, how many causalities Palestinians rockets has made during those eight years? How much destruction did these local-made rockets did cause? I think anyone who keeps close watch on the news would not believe Israel’s allegations on this matter. Nevertheless, what can justify such an extermination! NINE HUNDRED are dead so far, the third of them are children, and “we still in the beginning”- the Israelis announced in cold blood!!! Definitely, Israelis do not care if the war continues. For the last eight years, they have killed more than FIVE THOUSANDS Palestinians, and they intend to kill more. Besides, they do not care because they are using airplanes and tanks, and the big supply of weapons they have never paid for!

]]> By: objective http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-gaza-war-is-it-really-so-hard-to-understand/comment-page-2/#comment-180755 objective Fri, 09 Jan 2009 15:17:07 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=42884#comment-180755 Hey, Naser, what about protecting the children of Israel, or the Sudan or the Congo? Can you point me to the websites that you have posted to that show your support of all children, or is it just Palestinian children you want protected? Shouldn't we be taking Hamas to task for sending rockets into Israel and attacking the children there? Hey, Naser, what about protecting the children of Israel, or the Sudan or the Congo? Can you point me to the websites that you have posted to that show your support of all children, or is it just Palestinian children you want protected? Shouldn’t we be taking Hamas to task for sending rockets into Israel and attacking the children there?

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