What Happens Next in Honduras?
The stage has been set for a military confrontation.
As most already know, the Honduran Supreme Court was in the midst of a ongoing clash with President Manuel Zelaya on June 28 when an order was issued for President Zelaya’s arrest. The order was executed by the Honduran military, which, it appears, exceeded its authority and not only arrested him but took him to Costa Rica. It did so to prevent internal violence.
The crisis was due to a number of things, including Zelaya’s efforts to amend the Honduran constitution in ways both procedurally and substantively prohibited by that document. The congress then followed the Honduran laws of presidential succession and appointed the (civilian) president of the Congress, Roberto Micheletti, to be the interim president until elections could be held, as scheduled, in November.
While claimed by many to have been a coup by a military junta, it was not. The civilian government remains in power, and the military remains subordinate to it. (A more detailed account is provided in an article I wrote on June 30. A certification by Honduras of its bases for removing Mr. Zelaya from the presidency is provided here.)
Since the departure of Mr. Zelaya, Honduras has been a focus of much unwanted international attention. President Hugo Chávez of Venezuela has been adamant in demanding that Mr. Zelaya be reinstated as president; the United States Government, while less acerbic, has demanded the same. The Organization of American States (OAS) and the Bolivarian Alternative for Latin America and the Caribbean (ALBA), largely under the leadership of President Chávez, have demanded Zelaya’s return, and so has the UN.
Publicly, at least, Honduras stands alone with the sole exception of the government of Panamá, which, on July 6, asked the various governments to keep their noses out of Honduras’ internal affairs. President Ricardo Martinelli, who recently won the presidential election in Panamá by an unprecedented sixty plus percent with very high voter turnout, stated:
Panamá has to be a leader of freedom and justice, not only here in our home, but in our region and our continent. As president, I will do everything within my power to advance the ideals of a free economy, defying the ideological pendulum in Latin America.
News coverage in Panamá of the Honduran mess has been less biased than most coverage in the United States and elsewhere, and the return of Mr. Zelaya is favored by very few here.
The United States government expressed concern that Mr. Zelaya’s return might “fuel instability.” In fact, Mr. Zelaya attempted a return to Honduras on Sunday and it did indeed fuel violence — which was observed by the large flock of reporters accompanying him on a Venezualen aircraft and by Venezuelan TeleSur cameras at the airport, broadcasting to the world.
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Dan Miller graduated from Yale University in 1963 and from the University of Virginia School of Law in 1966. He lives in a rural area in Panama.
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53 Comments
1. David Thomson:It would behoove one to reread James Burnham’s 1964 classic, Suicide of the West: The Meaning And Destiny OF Liberalism. He specifically targeted the liberals’ infatuation with Communism. Still, the central message remains the same: the liberals of the West are suicidal. They are existentially driven to embrace ideas and perform actions which will ultimately destroy the United States. In their heart of hearts, subconsciously these self-hating Americans will not be satisfied until Honduras is turned into a leftist dictatorship. This is literally their ultimate goal. Nothing less will be deemed satisfactory.
Jul 7, 2009 - 11:43 am 2. Dan Miller:According to this article, the President of Costa Rica will mediate the crisis in Honduras. Secretary Clinton said that
Although were I an Honduran I might find the somewhat disparaging reference to “the politician who took over as defacto Honduran leader” somewhat offensive, this may ultimately result in a peaceful solution to the crisis — provided that Venezuelan President Chávez et al keep their noses out.
Dan(Miller)
Jul 7, 2009 - 11:55 am 3. Delia:What David Thompson Said.
We as a country that is ‘SUPPOSED’ to stand for LIBERTY and FREEDOM for all are falling through the cracks of Manifest Destiny gone wild.
Jul 7, 2009 - 11:57 am 4. bill-tb:The Colonel Obama administration wants slavery by debt … Payback to whitey. What, you missed the Rev Wright lectures?
Not to worry the ticking time bomb of unemployment will not be denied it’s due.
Jul 7, 2009 - 12:00 pm 5. Dan Miller:Now, an Honduran Supreme Court official has stated that amnesty may be offered to former President Zeyala, but that the “decision would be up to lawmakers and it would only be for political crimes.” Mr. Zelaya is also facing charges of corruption and of profiting from drug trafficking through Honduras, either of which may or may not be “political crimes.” Based on the caveat in the Supreme Court official’s statement, it seems likely that either or both may be so considered.
Dan Miller
Jul 7, 2009 - 12:10 pm 6. Emphasis:Oscar Arias is not the type of person I would trust. When referring the Cuban case he stated that the Cuban exiled community could not participate in any transition process in Cuba. Thus, you can see what his point of view is.
I am sorry for Honduras, it had to accept this imposed process because as Palin said before the election, Obama is pals with dictators.
Jul 7, 2009 - 12:50 pm 7. Ferdsblog:There is a petition from Hondurans to President Obama stating support for the interim regime at:
http://Petitiononline.com/honduras/petition.html
Jul 7, 2009 - 12:56 pm 8. David Thomson:In 1964, 45 years ago, James Burnham wrote the following in his monumental, Suicide of the West (page 274):
“In Laos the United States withdrew all support from the legitimate, pro-Western regime and compelled its leaders, against their urgent desire, to enter into a united front with neutralists and communists that guaranteed immediate communist control over half the nation and an eventual communist take-over of the rest.”
Jul 7, 2009 - 12:59 pm 9. Shef Rogers:“Kerfuffle,” huh? Now there’s a word you don’t often hear used to describe a military coup. You wouldn’t by any chance trying to make that coup seem trivial or harmless because it overthrew a Lefty you disliked, would you?
Jul 7, 2009 - 1:09 pm 10. bobby:It goes without saying that the legal government of Honduras was quite upset when on Sunday, a Venezuela jet carring Zelaya violated its air space, flew over its capital, circled its airport a few times, and departed.
Jul 7, 2009 - 1:40 pm 11. Clavos:What if a Hugo Chavez plane did that to Washington D.C. All but Obama would be alarmed. He would know that a friend was visiting.
If that happens again, the plane may be shot down by the Honduran airforce. Would that be legal? If in the U.S.-Yes. In Honduras-?
When Zelaya violated Article 239 of the Honduran constitution, he automatically lost his position as President of Honduras. He impeached himself.
Why am i not suprised that Obama and Hillary do not understand the constitution of Honduras? Apparently, they have never read the constitution of the United States. If they did-they took it as suggestions.
God bless America!!
God bless Honduras!!
Peace,
Bobby Gibson
bobbyhonduras@yahoo.com
Well written/researched article.
L
I have thought since the beginning of this “kerfluffle” that Chávez was orchestrating Zelaya even before he (Zelaya) ran afoul of his country’s laws and constitution.
The ossibility of Obama’s deliberate complicity is disgusting.
Jul 7, 2009 - 2:09 pm 12. Meryl:How many kerfuffles does that make now?
1. The kerfuffle in Iran.
2. The kerfuffle in North Korea.
3. The kerfuffle in Afghanistan.
4. The kerfuffle promised by Israel.
5. ….and others pending that haven’t boiled yet……
but, hey! bambam has solved health care (by destroying it); he has solved auto manufacturing problems (by destroying the industry); he has solved the housing crisis (by destroying the housing industry)….
6. oh, the kerfuffle in California.
7. the kerfuffle in unemployment (maybe that one doesn’t count since they “just guessed wrong”)
8. the kerfuffle in all the falsehoods spoken in Cairo…the Arabs are still rolling around the floor as a result of that….
This boy is just full of kerfuffles.
Too bad we can’t have the laughs without the destruction of our nation.
Jul 7, 2009 - 2:28 pm 13. Delia:How many ipods does it take to appease a despot?
On that same linear thinkage…
How many light bulbs does it take to screw in 0bama?
Jul 7, 2009 - 2:41 pm 14. Sebastian Shaw:Under the feckless telepromnter follower of the script, President Obama will have many more kerfuffles to come. I also expect a few trifles, one humdinger, & several loos-loos of mistakes that Obama will not take any responsibility for himself. I hope y’all have a plunger. The malaise is about the hit the fan.
Jul 7, 2009 - 2:42 pm 15. Dan Miller:Emphasis, re Comment #9 — I don’t trust Costa Rican President Arias either; nevertheless, he is probably better than Secretary Clinton or El Presidente Chavez.
Jul 7, 2009 - 2:43 pm 16. Delia:12. Meryl:
“kerfuffles” sound kinda yummy?
I think I’ve come up with a recipe!
Like ta’ hear it? Here it go!
Kerfuffle:
1 heaping cup of stupid
1/2 cup gullible
1/4 cup Jim Jones Kool-Aid™
4 leftist turdssssss
2 rounded tablespoons of race baiting
1 pinch of puckered, prickery assh*le
3 gallows giggles
2 Tax cheaters
…and a non-vetted prezzy in a pear treeeeeeeee!
What can I say? 5 out of 4 people don’t understand fractions.
Jul 7, 2009 - 2:49 pm 17. robotech master:Don’t count old huge out yet. You seem to confuse “high-tech” military transports with transports…. Chavez doesn’t need military transports all he needs is transports and he’s got more then enough if he takes over some civ ships. He could easily get a few thousand maybe 10k in troops to land in Nicaragua southern areas and have them march/bus/train to the northern areas and invade. Plus if he can rally support from other countries it just means all the less he personally will need to send…. Never underestimate the will and willingness of a petty dictator that thinks he’s going to control a section of the world…. I thought ppl learned that lesson in WW2.
Jul 7, 2009 - 2:57 pm 18. geokstr:Shef Rogers:
Seems like there alway has to be some ignorant, ranting leftist on every thread on this site spouting disingenuous nonsense. Mind telling us how much Soros pays you Kosists and DUers to come here?
Go away. Be forewarned that we’re all learning how to Alinsky too and soon we’ll see how you like it.
Jul 7, 2009 - 3:39 pm 19. Emphasis:Dan on Post 15, the question is why anyone other than the Hondurans?
Incidentally I understand from Honduran citizens that Venezuela and Nicaragua have been sending “civilians” to reside in Honduras, and that they are part of the demonstrations that are taking place there.
Jul 7, 2009 - 3:40 pm 20. Shef Rogers:In answer to your question, geokstr, Soros pays us in human blood. I’m just a minor imp in his demonic hierarchy, so I get oh, about a liter per piece of disingenuous nonsense. That’s a quart and a bit to you. Us traitors went metric, you know.
Jul 7, 2009 - 4:34 pm 21. Professor Guvinoff:The whole story is not funny, but there is a zinger in the middle of it: The aircraft used to bring Zelaya back to Tegucigalpa was a business jet, from which you just can’t jump with a parachute, no matter how hard you try.
Can’t understand why Washington does not support Hondura’s legitimate institutions, or should I rather say it would frighten me if I understood it?
Jul 7, 2009 - 4:41 pm 22. Dan Miller:Re Comment # 21 — I rather wish he had tried. To parachute from the jet, apparently owned by the remnants of the Venezuelan oil company, would have made a big splash on TeleSur.
Dan Miller
Jul 7, 2009 - 4:52 pm 23. vivo:So what’s new?
Honduras in a class warfare.
Pajamers as backseat quarterbacks.
Remember the Soccer War between Honduras and El Salvador? That’s how they fix things there.
Enjoy your quarterbacking on CNN & Fox.
Oh, wait, the Michael Jackson thing is on.
Jul 7, 2009 - 5:03 pm 24. Scott:I am done with my support of Obama. I was living in Nicaragua and left as Ortega was taking over the country by force. We should look up to the people of Honduras for standing up in defense of their Constitution and freedoms that one idiot was trying to take away with the help of Chavez.
Chavez did not shut his big for mouth for months when Colombia killed terrorist 1/2 inside Ecuadoror. However he can fly a plane in closed airspace over a sovereign nation? This was an act of was and should be viewed as much.
Viva Honduras Viva Freedom!
Jul 7, 2009 - 5:31 pm 25. Tri Geek:So Vivo, should we put you down as being in support of Zelaya? I just want to be clear on this.
Jul 7, 2009 - 8:02 pm 26. Pat J:You can put me down as in support of Zelaya. He was democratically elected. He was overthrown and exiled. This sets a nasty precedent for Central America. You don’t like what you’re president is doing so you roust him out of his bed at gunpoint and put him on a plane for Costa Rica? Not good.
Jul 7, 2009 - 9:04 pm 27. vivo:25. Tri Geek:
The way I understand this, Zelaya was trying to change the constitution by running a referendum, but was opposed by strong government opposition. His method was strictly democratic. Micheletti just popped a coupe d’etat with the military, a totally antidemocratic procedure.
If you support Democracy, go for Zelaya; if you support oligarchy and totalitarism, go for Micheletti.
That’s why many nations support the legitimate Honduran President, including the USA.
Jul 7, 2009 - 9:13 pm 28. Paul from Hamburg:Shef: Your first post seemed rather pointless, but I have to admit that #20 was rather amusing.
Jul 7, 2009 - 9:37 pm 29. PM:Vivo doesn’t commit until a winner seems evident.
Delia, don’t ever change.
Jul 7, 2009 - 10:04 pm 30. Noocyte:This whole thing is just so mind-numbingly depressing.
As ham-handed and undignified as the actual mechanics of Zelaya’s ouster may have been, that ouster was quite lawful, per the constitution of Honduras. It was none of the US’ business. For Barack “I will not meddle in the affairs of other nations” Obama to take so mystifyingly strong a position on the matter is baffling in the extreme. If this was some way to curry favor with Chavez, ahead of some ill-conceived attempt at a future rapprochement, then this POTUS is even more short-sighted and perilously green than…well *everything* he’s done so far has indicated.
Probably the most dismal spectacle in all this has been the repellent equivalences drawn between the hordes of moochers shrieking for the return of their would-be Honduran Jefe, and the tragically and brutally suppressed demonstrators against the election-stealing theocrats in Iran. The two situations could not be more different, and the failure to see that is yet another mark against the critical thinking faculties of the transnational Left.
I most fervently hope that this matter can be resolved in a manner which preserves the sovereignty of Honduras and avoids any further bloodshed. But if that transpires, it will be no thanks to execrable greenhorn at the helm of this Nation.
Jul 7, 2009 - 11:33 pm 31. Wil:Notice that the MSM is completely going along with Obama’s shabby, obvious lie about the Honduran “coup”. It doesn’t seem there is anything Obama say or do, no matter how illegal, dishonest, destructive, or dishonorable, where the MSM won’t gleefully praise him, cheer him on, and cover for him. This is getting truly dangerous for America.
Jul 7, 2009 - 11:48 pm 32. JHM dba ''Neocomradologist":“Publicly, at least, Honduras stands alone with the sole exception of the government of Panamá ….”
Hmm. Do Hooverville and Wingnut City and Rio Limbaugh count for nothin’ at all, then, supportwise?
Happy days.
Jul 8, 2009 - 12:48 am 33. progressoverpeace:After which he attempted to perpetrate a coup, which was lawfully fended off, as per the Honduran Constitution (not that the rule of law seems to interest you “Democracy” types too much). What Zelaya did was considered so bad, in the Honduran Constitution, that loss of citizenship was one of the punishments, let alone loss of Presidential office. The Honduran Constitution also allowed for the military to be used to enforce supreme court rulings, if need be.
But, your support for Zelaya’s attempted coup in Honduras is duly noted. Thanks for being clear about that.
Jul 8, 2009 - 1:21 am 34. Old Soldier:So by Pat J and Vivo’s logic, Nixon could not have been impeached and removed from (if he hadn’t resigned) because he won a vote. And if Clinton or Reagan had wanted a third term, they could have just mailed out some ballots to amend the Constitution.
Anything that wins a vote (even a rigged one) is legal.
Jul 8, 2009 - 4:20 am 35. scooby:What about the coup in Thailand a couple of years back. The Elected one is still out of the country and the US has not said a thing.
Jul 8, 2009 - 4:38 am 36. Realist:Scooby do try and keep up we have had a couple more coup’s here in Thailand since then both relatively non violent they are Buddhists after all except in the ‘restive’ south where there is lots of violence . Wonder why oh yes Mohammedans live there thats why silly me.
But regarding the moonbat ‘libtards’ anyone but me notice that they only speak out AFTER they hear what Obambi says and thinks seems like they are incapable of original thought. Look how long it took them to say anything when Obambi dithered about Iran.
Can someone explain the logic behind Obambi with this list of countries and HIS actions.
Honduras Interfere Immediately on the WRONG side
Iran Dither for days then offer weak condemnation when shamed in to it.
Israel Interfere constantly and voiciferously
Palestine Pay them lots more money.
Iraq Get out fast while the getting is good.
Saudi BOW LOW to the disgusting King
Pakistan Pay them lots of money
UK Insult the PM and the Queen send back bust of Churchill
France Insult Premier and his wife
Germany Argue with the Chancellor
Syria Lick ars* restore diplomatic relations
Egypt Lick Mohammedan ars* some more
Afghanistan Follow Bush’s plans to a T
Turkey Stick your big nose in to EU business when its not wanted
Mmmm looks like a pattern is developing here what could it be I mean the BOGUS POTUS could not be an anti American Socialist Mohammedan could he.
Jul 8, 2009 - 7:54 am 37. Pat J:“But, your support for Zelaya’s attempted coup in Honduras is duly noted. Thanks for being clear about that.”
What coup? Zelaya initiated a non-binding poll to gauge public opinion about adding an additional ballot to change the Honduran Constitution. There was all sorts of legality and illegalities involved. His own supporters in Congress considered impeaching him. But instead of using legal framework they deposed him.
@34 Old Soldier
“Anything that wins a vote (even a rigged one) is legal.”
By that logic the 2000 election was legal.
Jul 8, 2009 - 8:10 am 38. Old Soldier:Still crying over that one? How about the obvious fraud in the 1960 count in Illinois?
Oh, it was a “non-binding” poll now – now I get it. Not an unconstitutional green-light to trample the laws of Honduras and make himself “President for Life” like Chavez. If that’s the case, what is the big deal? He’s only losing the last six months of his term and a member of his own party is in office instead.
Jul 8, 2009 - 8:41 am 39. David W. Lincoln:George Jonas has something to say about this. George Jonas: A coup that wasn’t
Jul 8, 2009 - 9:20 am 40. Leland:As Pat J says, “what coup?”
After all, Zelaya violated article 239 of the Honduran Constitution (by proposing to reform that article) and was found guilty of doing so. That article clearly states the ramification of such violation is immediate loss of his position. Zelaya violated the law, was tried in a court of law, found guilty, and removed from power. The US Executive Branch does not have judicial review over Honduras Supreme Court.
Jul 8, 2009 - 11:40 am 41. Roderick Reilly:Ditto for me on this “coup” business. It would have been a military coup if the military had initiated it at its own behest and installed a junta to run the country. As it was, they acted as agents for legitimate constitutional authority. How quaintly “American” of them!
Jul 8, 2009 - 12:26 pm 42. abi:The US may not have power over the Honduras Supreme Court but we’ll try anything, or at least OBAMA will and I betcha Obama and Zelaya are pen pals.
Obama is setting the stage..with the backing of the likes of Soros…
Jul 8, 2009 - 4:12 pm 43. John Samford:“You can put me down as in support of Zelaya. He was democratically elected. He was overthrown and exiled.”
No, that is wrong. If your error is intentional, it is a LIE!
Jul 8, 2009 - 6:38 pm 44. vivo:I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt.
The Zeester was removed legally, by the local, Constitutional, version of impeachment and conviction.
When Congress impeaches and convicts Obama in about 20 months from now, will you call it a coup? If you do, you will be wrong. Just like you are wrong about calling the removal of the President of Honduras a coup.
If ANY President is removed under the Law as defined in the Constitution, it is NOT a coup.
34. Old Soldier:
“So by Pat J and Vivo’s logic, Nixon could not have been impeached”
Do you understand the difference between impeachment and coup d’etat?
Want to read what HONDURANS have to say?
http://upsidedownworld.org/main/content/view/1974/68/
Jul 9, 2009 - 4:05 am 45. bobby:I checked the web address given by vivo. It contains lies, lies, and more lies. “beat ruler and terrorised his family”, “more than 200 citizens detained, injured, brutally beaten by military and police”, “the defacto regime has already blooded the people”. None of this is true. Where is the evidence? Oh, excuse me liberals like vivo don’t let facts stand in their way. Of course he may be thinking of Iran, Cuba, Nicaragua, Venezuela, Russia, China, Ecuador, Bolivia, and all the other leftist dictatorships which Obama supports.
Jul 9, 2009 - 1:54 pm 46. Pat J:One thought-the US Obama controled medis said that the right-wing people from Honduras are in Washington. They are from Zelaya’s Liberal party. Does that make him right-wing?
Vivo proves once again that liberals can not compete in the arena of ideas.
God bess America!!
Viva Honduras!!
Bobby Gibson!!
Oh, it was a “non-binding” poll now – now I get it. Not an unconstitutional green-light to trample the laws of Honduras and make himself “President for Life” like Chavez. If that’s the case, what is the big deal? He’s only losing the last six months of his term and a member of his own party is in office instead.
Jul 9, 2009 - 6:06 pm 47. bobby:===================
Exactly. Now you get it. I’m not denying Zelaya was a crook. But Honduras should have followed the rule of law instead of rousting him out of bed and putting him on a plane to Costa Rica. That’s called an impeachment. We just had one in Illinois. No one was forced out at gunpoint.
When will Pat J and VIVO take off their red glasses? There was no coup in Honduras, and the rule of law was followed. Zelaya was removed from office by a legal court order. But to a liberal-”Facts are silly things”.
Jul 9, 2009 - 7:15 pm 48. progressoverpeace:Bobby Gibson
@46 Pat J:
You have no idea what you’re talking about. Zelaya and his supporters broke into where the army was storing the ballots to steal them and distribute them, themselves, after the supreme court had declared the referendum illegal and had proscribed the army from distributing them, as Zelaya had ordered. Further, the army is charged with enforcing the supreme court’s rulings, if need be (articles 313, 314 in the Honduran Constitution). Get a brain. Zelaya tried to perpetrate a coup and the supreme court, army and legislature fended it off. It was all legal and according to the HONDURAN Constitution, which is the rule of law there, not your concept of law.
Jul 9, 2009 - 7:35 pm 49. vivo:45. bobby:
“I checked the web address given by vivo. It contains lies, lies, and more lies.”
It is not my fault that what people write is true or not. Your statements may be true or false, I have no idea who you are and what you’re up to. The article that I linked is probably written by one of your Honduran enemies. Who’s telling the truth? I find this article more credible than your opinion. Press coverage has been accurate, pictures don’t lie, Arias is looking into it. The truth will eventually emerge and one of us should be apologizing then. Talk to me in a month or two.
Jul 10, 2009 - 5:05 am 50. Dan Miller:Here is an excellent Op Ed piece in the LA Times pointing out, based on the Honduran Constitution and law, that removal of former President Zelaya from office was not a “coup.”
Jul 10, 2009 - 6:33 am 51. Sammy Finkelman:The Honduran Constitution apparently has no provision for impeachment. That was parft of the problem. the Supreme Court seems to have scretly ordered the predident’s arrest. Because a President can be arrested. Zelaya first claimed this was a referendum then later said this was only a survey, which is legal. The Army on its own exiled Zelaya, evidentally to keep the peace. They even made upa resignation letter. Zelaya was careful to avoid running afoul of Article 239 even by pretending he wanted the constitutional convention for other reasons.
The fact of the matter is, people obviously were increasingly concerned that Zelaya at some point would openly break the law. In fact he already had. So what should be done? It depnds on what you think is the real truth here. When you see that Hugo Chavez is his biog ally, and that approximately 95% of the legislature wants him gone, it is easy to guess.
Jul 10, 2009 - 10:33 am 52. myth buster:In a Republic, the military is charged with protecting the nation and its constitution. If a man is claiming to be President with no legal authority to do so, either because he is ineligible, was defeated in the preceding election, or has been removed from office by the means specified in the constitution for such a removal, the military has the DUTY to escort him from his office at gunpoint, and they must shoot him if he resists. The whole exiling him in his pajamas was just a hilarious bonus.
Jul 11, 2009 - 9:19 am 53. Felix:I just would like to add as a Hondurian Native and now living in the States is that what Honduras has sent out a strong message the the whole World..If any President being elected Democratically dicide to changed their ways to Solicialism or Communism the People has the right to do what Honduras has done. If the International Community want to keep playing the sinical stand they are doing right now, remember the samething can happen in your Countries too, if you go the way Zelaya was heading. We the People of Honduras will not give up Liberty and Democracy for Socialism or Communism, we don’t Chavez or Zelaya over write the Contitution of the Replublic of Honduras.. God Bless Honduras and the USA of America.. Gracias..
Jul 31, 2009 - 11:12 am