Pajamas Media

59 Comments

1. one of your own:

Hmmm . . . tastes like . . . VICTORY!

Feb 17, 2009 - 8:31 am 2. karlstro:

I am angry and I have no hope, no confidence, and very little support for leaders who lie! I do wonder how the new President will explain all the earmarks and pork in the Stimulus Bill that no one in Congress had a chance to read? There is NO fiscal responsibility in this bill.

Feb 17, 2009 - 8:44 am 3. David Thomson:

Barack Obama is not even close to being ready for prime time. He lacks both the education and the experience necessary to carry out his duties. Is he a liar? He might be so shallow that he doesn’t comprehend the logical inconsistencies of his statements!

Feb 17, 2009 - 8:45 am 4. Big Red:

Maybe he should’ve explained to Elkhart how Dems no energy energy policy killed their town. With tax cheats, lobbyists and Clinton retreads making up his government, backing off on public financing for his campaign, not hearing Rev. Wright’s sermons (sorry, even I couldn’t sleep through all that racket), etc. etc. this One is serving up Whoppers so fast he looks like a Burger King (TM) on speed. I’m afraid the crash is going to be spectacular.

Feb 17, 2009 - 8:49 am 5. bobdog:

Sometimes, charisma is not enough.

Sometimes, hell. Charisma is not enough.

Feb 17, 2009 - 9:01 am 6. Craig:

““Jennifer, I like your husband and I like you, but who do you believe, me right now or your lying ears in Elkhart?””

Reminds me of a Groucho Marx classic:
Who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes?

Feb 17, 2009 - 9:08 am 7. BackwardsBoy:

Obama only has a toehold on reality.

Feb 17, 2009 - 9:09 am 8. Mongoose:

one of your own: It will not be when you get your pink slip. It will taste like poverty.

The unskilled and poorly educated young workers are the first to go. It will be headed your way soon.

It will not be so wonderful when your parents lose all their assets, it will taste like catastrophe.

The Middle Class is under attack by the Democrats.
………….

But it will really taste bitter about 15 years from now when you finally grow up and realize just what you have been a part of. Then it will taste like defeat and remorse.

You really have not the faintest idea of what is going on. Just wait, you will. You will not like it much either once you do.

Feb 17, 2009 - 9:11 am 9. David Thomson:

How does that old saying go?: Money talks and bovine excrement walks. Barack Obama has lost the faith of anybody who knows something about economics. One might be something of a goofy left-winger—but they still want to protect their life savings and investment portfolio. This leaves Obama only with the crazies. The middle-of-the-road voters are already turned off, and we still have close to four more years of this madness.

Feb 17, 2009 - 9:12 am 10. AlexinCT:

The funniest thing to follow is how liberals now are making excuses for Obama not just keeping, but expanding on the same policies that they wanted to drag Bush into international courts for. And also all the excuse making for massive deficit spending, which they had a huge problem with under Bush, to expand government. Do not let them fool you and tell you this spending is needed now, because the economy is bad. They did not accept that excuse when Bush said the same thing after 9-11, so we should hold their feet to the fire.

Remember the left, like every other vile entity on this planet, believes that the end justifies the means. Lies to get your agenda going are not lies, they are good things. I would almost laugh at the fact the left spent the last 6 years telling us we where living in a fascist state, except for the fact that if they do get what they want, we will actually end up living in such a fascist state.

Feb 17, 2009 - 9:19 am 11. Mongoose:

Dow is at -285 now. That is what investors think about the “Stimulus”.

It will get worse. Democrats can fool themselves and the fools tat vote for them, but they cannot fool intelligent investors.

What a disaster he is going to be. He is going to take what should have been a 5 quarter recession and turn it into full blown, world wide depression. Who knows how long it will last. It will most likely end in world war.

Feb 17, 2009 - 9:27 am 12. Steve P.:

Mongoose: “It will not be when you get your pink slip. It will taste like poverty.The unskilled and poorly educated young workers are the first to go. It will be headed your way soon. It will not be so wonderful when your parents lose all their assets, it will taste like catastrophe. The Middle Class is under attack by the Democrats.”

This is probably the most moronic thing I’ve read on this board today. Nice going. The unskilled workers are the the Republican voters from the south and midwest who spent so much time not learning math or science that now they find themselves without any real marketable skills. The liberal northeast and liberal west coast, i.e., the educated parts, are those that have the learned knowledge and skills to adapt to a crummy economy and stay afloat. Unfortunately, it is the wealthy, educated liberal northeast that will have to bail out and prop up the poor, uneducated conservative south and midwest with their tax dollars. Like we always have.

Also, if the middle class in under attack by Democrats, please explain to me how it is that between the first quarter of 2001 (when President Bush took office) and the fourth quarter of 2007, median weekly earnings (adjusted for inflation) fell 0.62 percent, compared with 7.1 percent growth between 1996 and 2000 under the Clinton Administration? Thanks.

Feb 17, 2009 - 9:48 am 13. Brian:

I can create 12 million jobs and it won’t cost 1 trillion dollars. Deport all the illegals. The double bonus is not only have you created tax paying jobs, but your reducing the burden of social services as well. WIN-WIN!

Feb 17, 2009 - 9:52 am 14. BETTIE:

it is so sad that senior citizen in ny are loosing their food stamps and homes senior citizen are losing everything while pelosi is enjoying her self in italy . poverty is not a word people in the senate nor congress use . pelosi reed use tax and spend . i guess in the next 4 yr there will be a reduction of senior citizens because of the stimulus take away for them.

Feb 17, 2009 - 10:30 am 15. tc:

Ms. Loven harshly criticized President Bush in 2006 for using straw-man tactics in his answers to press questions. Newsbusters wrote a piece on it and the original appeared in Salon.

Ms. Loven opined:
“Bush routinely is criticized for dressing up events with a too-rosy glow. But experts in political speech say the straw man device, in which the president makes himself appear entirely reasonable by contrast to supposed “critics,” is just as problematic.”

Now, Mr. Obama used the same straw man tactic in answering Ms. Loven’s question a week ago, as well as many others. Shall Ms. Loven stand up against Mr. Obama for his use of the same tactic this year as she did in 2006 against President Bush?

Feb 17, 2009 - 10:58 am 16. Paddy:

What can you expect from a dedicated Marxist/fascist, intellectually dishonest, serial liar other than what we get? O is not just a crooked politician, he is an amoral one.

Feb 17, 2009 - 11:04 am 17. tc:

AP’s Jennifer Loven Scolds Bush for “Straw Man” Rhetoric (from Newsbusters.org March 19, 2006)

In criticism of straw man rhetoric, Loven then predictably finds liberal academics to back her arguments up, starting with the omnipresent Kathleen Hall Jamieson, as well as:

A specialist in presidential rhetoric, Wayne Fields of Washington University in St. Louis, views it as “a bizarre kind of double talk” that abuses the rules of legitimate discussion.

“It’s such a phenomenal hole in the national debate that you can have arguments with nonexistent people,” Fields said. “All politicians try to get away with this to a certain extent. What’s striking here is how much this administration rests on a foundation of this kind of stuff.”

Hence, Mr. Obama, like President Bush, is having arguments with nonexistent people according academics like Mr. Wayne Fields from Washington University in St. Louis mentions. I wonder if Mr. Fields and Ms. Loven are as stricken with this administration resting so much of its foundation upon straw man tactics.

Feb 17, 2009 - 11:05 am 18. Terry:

Certain parts of the political caste tend to dismiss stock market moves as immaterial or tangential to reality. The stock market, flaws and all, is where people vote WITH their pocketbooks. U.S. citizens are not allowed a direct vote on laws or bills because we have a representative government, so the only alternative is to vote your money. There is obviously something in everything put forward by this administration that induces people to vote, “NO!”

Feb 17, 2009 - 11:07 am 19. Right Far Right:

Hmmn I wonder who was the President who got us into this mess. Oups I forgot everyone here has right wing amnesia

Feb 17, 2009 - 11:20 am 20. Nomad:

WELL SAID #13

Feb 17, 2009 - 11:27 am 21. David S:

The Republicans are continuing to tout tax cuts as the most appropriate solution to this crisis. This simply demonstrates a willful ignorance of history. Obama is right to call them out. Stimulus demands real spending.

Nothing Obama said is at odds with the truth, and all of it is more forthright and honest that the pablum the GOP is pushing.

Peace.

DS

Feb 17, 2009 - 11:35 am 22. David Thomson:

“Oups I forgot everyone here has right wing amnesia”

Are you possibly referring to George W. Bush? Many of us perceive the former president as another Herbert Hoover. He foolishly increased government spending during his presidency. Barack Obama is making things a lot worse—as did Franklin D. Roosevelt with his New Deal legislation. We have gone from bad to a huge mess in less than a month’s time.

Feb 17, 2009 - 11:41 am 23. Marc Malone:

#19 Right Far right – I’ll answer that for you: Carter and Clinton. That’s who got us into this mess. They passed, then reinforced, the CRA. That created the housing bubble.

President Bush, on the other hand, tried to avert it. Year after, from 2002 onward, he tried to get Congress to act, to no avail. The President lacked the authority to do anything. Only Congress could act. 17 times in 2008 alone, before the housing bubble burst, Bush asked Congress to act, but the Dems blew him off.

Hope that helps you with your confusion. Glad I could help.

Feb 17, 2009 - 11:49 am 24. joe buzz:

I was a bit shocked that the POTUS could stand up in front of a crowd and cameras then with a straight face proclaim;
This bill/ stimulus package contains no pork or earmarks.

Feb 17, 2009 - 12:12 pm 25. gideon22:

Steve P
Please remind me what states are bankrupt?

Feb 17, 2009 - 12:47 pm 26. tommyd:

I can’t believe what I just read.. what a joke.

steve P says:
The unskilled workers are the the Republican voters from the south and midwest who spent so much time not learning math or science that now they find themselves without any real marketable skills. The liberal northeast and liberal west coast, i.e., the educated parts, are those that have the learned knowledge and skills to adapt to a crummy economy and stay afloat. Unfortunately, it is the wealthy, educated liberal northeast that will have to bail out and prop up the poor, uneducated conservative south and midwest with their tax dollars. Like we always have.

Unskilled workers from the south?? what is the unenployment rate in
your liberal mecca of Chicago? How about in wonderful Detroit Michigan? How about Philly Pa. The educated West Coast? Yes the west coast now they have done just a bang up job so they are now begging for the rest of the country to bail them out of their leftist socialist nightmare. I am so glad all those highly educated geniuses managed to bankrupt that state. Way To Go Genius.
Face the facts Liberals are idiots.
You need to get out of your mommies basement now & then and look around the real world.
Your post is without a doubt one of the most uninformed post I have ever seen on this site.

Feb 17, 2009 - 1:05 pm 27. Michael O'Brein:

Steve P: “The unskilled workers are the the Republican voters from the south and midwest…”

As a republican from the south I guess that MBA and Fortune 40 job I hold is just a lie.

What a snob you are Stevie P. The majority of educated and employed people in the south are republicans. Maybe you’d better re-think about which party the unskilled, uneducated, and non-working are coddled by.

Feb 17, 2009 - 1:23 pm 28. Meryl:

3. “Is he a liar?” He’s either a serial liar or the most incredibly stupid, ESL POTUS we have ever had to endure. I don’t think it really matters whether we ever completely understand if its lying or deception. The results are the same.

Feb 17, 2009 - 1:33 pm 29. Steve P.:

Yeah, I’ll be a snob, but I’ll be a snob with the facts you bunch of drooling ignoramuses.

States Receiving Most in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:

1. D.C. ($6.17)
2. North Dakota ($2.03)
3. New Mexico ($1.89)
4. Mississippi ($1.84)
5. Alaska ($1.82)
6. West Virginia ($1.74)
7. Montana ($1.64)
8. Alabama ($1.61)
9. South Dakota ($1.59)
10. Arkansas ($1.53)

In contrast, of the 16 states that are “losers” — receiving less in federal spending than they pay in federal taxes — 69% are Blue States that voted for Al Gore in 2000. Indeed, 11 of the 14 (79%) of the states receiving the least federal spending per dollar of federal taxes paid are Blue States. Here are the Top 10 states that supply feed for the federal trough (with Blue States highlighted in bold):

States Receiving Least in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:

1. New Jersey ($0.62)
2. Connecticut ($0.64)
3. New Hampshire ($0.68)
4. Nevada ($0.73)
5. Illinois ($0.77)
6. Minnesota ($0.77)
7. Colorado ($0.79)
8. Massachusetts ($0.79)
9. California ($0.81)
10. New York ($0.81)

What now?

Feb 17, 2009 - 1:36 pm 30. Steve P.:

Meryl says: “Is he a liar?” He’s either a serial liar or the most incredibly stupid, ESL POTUS we have ever had to endure. I don’t think it really matters whether we ever completely understand if its lying or deception. The results are the same.

Meryl, I think you’re confused. Geroge W. Bush is no longer president.

Feb 17, 2009 - 1:41 pm 31. Kevin:

Steve P,
Neither is his brother George.
Neither is Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter,…what does the past have to do with doing the right thing to get the economy to equilibrium? Of course both parties fiddled while Rome burned. Ideology is for us chumps in the real world. In DC, its all about the power and influence, the pork and graft. One side wants to tax and spend our way to destitution; the other to borrow and spend. The train has lost its brakes – its damage control time. How long this deleveraging soft depression lasts depends on how quickly the Gov’t and Obama decide to put forth a set of policies, then shut the hell up for a while and let the market sort things out under these rules. Obama could say that Wall Street execs must wear pink clown outfits and only be paid in tangerines; that trades may only occur in bail-out banks on rainy days; whatever, just lay it out there and get back to carrying your wife’s shopping bags (POTUS) or further your tax evading techniques(geithner). Debts will either be paid or defaulted – both hurt economically. Obama needs to accept reality that the era of savings and thrift are here and the days of spending & leveraging-up waved bye-bye. It wouldn’t hurt if Alfred E Obama refrained from scaring the snot out of the public everytime he opens his pie-hole. We get it, Mr President – Bush was an economic fool to be swayed by the Wall Street crowd. But, guess what, the market doesn’t likey-likey you much either – your waffling, staged pressers, and bugnuts cabinet appointments aren’t exactly instilling the street with money-making mojo. If Bush is Hoover, then BHO is certainly FDR – uuugghhhh!

Feb 17, 2009 - 2:12 pm 32. Delia:

Wow! Steve P. can copy-paste from a blog post from 2004! WHOOT!
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2004/09/red_states_feed.html

;p

Feb 17, 2009 - 2:30 pm 33. Kevin:

Right far right,
You are spot on. I remember the good ole’ days before 2000. Ahhh, like its was yesterday (queu the dream sequence music…)….
Thanks to the Community Financial Education Act of 1979, poorer Americans from all walks of life attended mandatory workshops during high school teaching them basic financial concepts such as the merits of setting aside ten percent of every paycheck. Since the Welfare Reform initiative of the 1960’s, and the all-time low out-of-wedlock birth rates, intact working families from poorer communities had the extra money to do so. With the increased vigilance by Fannie Mae on predatory lending, families were able to save up the ten or twenty percent of the value of their desired home and took out fifteen or thirty-year mortgages. Moreover, with the Clinton veto of the Congressional attempt to overturn the Glass Steagal Act, Wall Street investment banks and traditional commercial lending banks were not able to sully the waters by merging and creating inherent conflicts of interest which would have led to greater systemic risk.
BUT THEN..Bush was elected (illegally I might add). He immediately overturned the CFE Act and replaced it with the CRA, forcing local banks to offer riskier loans to those who would have had to wait a few more years under the prior rules. Then, a short while later, he strong-armed Congress to repeal the Glass-Steagal Act, and the race for leverage was on!! The rest, as they say, was, history. Oh, well, life was good for awhile, so I can’t really complain. I’ll just go back to my short-wave radio, put on my tin hat, and watch the world burn.

Feb 17, 2009 - 2:33 pm 34. JB:

Re: Steve P.
Steve, it is precisely those 1-Dimensional skills that will lead to greater unemployment in the Northeast. Do not knock blue collar workers. They are not dumb — many are highly skilled. And they can more easily transfer their skills in this type of environment. Unlike computer workers who can only work on computers, or marketeers who won’t be hawking as much now, or real estate brokers who will not be selling as many homes. Give me the welder, carpenter, plumber, and RN any day. And please, try to disguise your own ignorance about the South and Midwest.

Feb 17, 2009 - 2:41 pm 35. Just Passing Through:

Steve P. said:

“Yeah, I’ll be a snob, but I’ll be a snob with the facts you bunch of drooling ignoramuses.

States Receiving Most in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:

1. D.C. ($6.17)
2. North Dakota ($2.03)
3. New Mexico ($1.89)
4. Mississippi ($1.84)
5. Alaska ($1.82)
6. West Virginia ($1.74)
7. Montana ($1.64)
8. Alabama ($1.61)
9. South Dakota ($1.59)
10. Arkansas ($1.53)”

Tell me how this list supports your statement in comment #12 about the south and midwest?

Some of these states are low population states that have very high defense spending in state. Therefore, the ratio of federal dollar spent there compared to the tax dollars harvested… – you ignoramous.

Exception – Nevada, and on your other list. Guess why? Las Vegas and Reno. Huge tax cows compared to population.

How many states on your second list are high population density states. And in how many of them – and this is VERY important to your argument or lack thereof – is the low ratio of federal spending to the tax dollars harvested there simply reflective of a high rate of people NOT PAYING TAXES but nonetheless soaking up the federal entitlement dollars flowing back into the state and skewing the ratio (because that’s what your ratio numbers actually mean).

Lies, damned lies, and statistics. The two subgroups of the third category are purposeful misuse of statistics and ignorance. Which do you belong to?

Feb 17, 2009 - 2:46 pm 36. Cybergeezer:

We need to solicit Reverend Wrights opinion here. He knows Obama better than Obama knows himself.

Feb 17, 2009 - 3:24 pm 37. The Historian:

OBAMA’S DETROIT HAS NO FUTURE
The Dems in Congress don’t even read the transformational legislation they pass. There is no way they can make cars.

http://greensrealworld.blogspot.com/2009/02/our-auto-industry-run-by-democrats.html

Feb 17, 2009 - 4:37 pm 38. one of your own:

#1 – #37 . . . Thanks for making my point . . . I know you are but what am I . . . You are a hypocrite and don’t even know it . . . You are like poop only dumber . . . Isn’t that your mommy calling? . . . Your reasons sound like excuses . . . Loser! (except for Steve P, the only one up there who hasn’t shoved aside his ethics for the comfort of the crowd.

Feb 17, 2009 - 5:36 pm 39. DaveinPhoenix:

19. Right Far Right:

Hmmn I wonder who was the President who got us into this mess. Oups I forgot everyone here has right wing amnesia

–The President’s name was Johnson and his “Great Society” programs which (post WW2) began our slide into economic oblivion…along with the Democratic congress – the ones who write the federal budgets for at least 40 OF THE PAST 50 YEARS.

Nice try, stupid.

Feb 17, 2009 - 6:17 pm 40. Richard Rhodes:

Steve P. It is so easy to spot a liberal from way off. They think they are brilliant and highly skilled and wonderful. The only problem is your arrogance overwhelms you. You must be real bitter that you have no friends or job or anything else in your life. Maybe you should just kill yourself and do everyone in the world a favor. And way to go Steve P, isn’t it interesting how all those brilliant liberals in Califronia and Massachusetts have managed to run up the biggest deficits in history. It must be that true liberal intelligence that you and they put on display all the time

Feb 17, 2009 - 7:06 pm 41. JB:

#39: And Johnson was in FDRs admin, and FDR was in Woodrow Wilson’s. Yes, there is an easy pattern to see here. Goldberg’s Liberal Fascism can supply everyone with the history — and he backs it up with a lot of data. Let’s not lump Kennedy in with those 3, though — he and Reagan were the last 2 conservative presidents.

Feb 17, 2009 - 7:39 pm 42. jerry:

Obama will get the shock of his political life when the tax revenues that support our government plummet.

1) Sales tax to states will decline because of decreased purchasing.

2) Contributions to Social Security will decline because few people are working; same with Medicare tax contributions.

3) Federal and state tax revenues will decline because fewer people are working.

4) Federal and state tax revenues will decline because (taxable) interest and dividends will have declined.

5) Federal and state tax revenues will decline because those who lost money in the stock market debacle will take losses against other passive income.

6) Federal and state tax revenues will decline because real estate sales will not be supplying the expected tax revenues, but will be used to claim income losses.

In short, the declining US economy will decimate the Federal budget, just as it is doing to the states. The US Government will be forced to borrow money to cover expenses, but there is no one to borrow from – not Japan and not China. Consequently, it will simply print the money and degrade the dollar, forcing massive losses on those who invested here. Only a decline in the value of foreign currencies will save holders of US debt from complete ruin. However, Americans will be holding degraded American paper money. Not a happy prospect. The only process that can save the US consumer is if the prices of American goods deflate along with the value of our currency. However, irony of ironies – the stimulus package will prevent deflation.

Feb 17, 2009 - 9:25 pm 43. one of your own:

42, Jerry: What do you mean “will” . . . all that stuff is here now. And Obama had noting to do with it.

Feb 17, 2009 - 10:28 pm 44. one of your own:

40. Richard Rhodes (I’ll just call you Dick); writes, “Maybe you should just kill yourself and do everyone in the world a favor.”

You’re a psychopath of the most dangerous sort. A dumb one.

California’s projected 2009-10 deficit of 22.3 percent of general fund spending is among the nation’s worst in proportionate terms, there are states facing more horrendous deficits, including Arizona at 28.2. Red Arizona. Home of YOUR candidate.

Now, don’t you have a bunny to put in the dryer?

Feb 17, 2009 - 10:34 pm 45. Sara (Pal2Pal):

Check out the chart: Dow Performance 93 Days Post Election – 1912 to Obama 2008

http://macsmind.com/wordpress/2009/02/17/obama-wrong-for-americas-economy/

Feb 18, 2009 - 1:23 am 46. Bob Campbell:

@tommyd.. I couldn’t have said it better.. I totally agree with you about this Steve P. What an idiot! Talk about class envy.. this guy is eat up with it!!

Feb 18, 2009 - 3:57 am 47. Redheart:

When the Fairness Doctrine debate becomes full swing (as opposed to closed door meetings now among lawmakers) its going to be quite entertaining to watch the Obama media get taken apart, reporter after reporter, anchor after anchor, uninformed voter after uninformed voter. There is a sleeping giant in this country and it includes the almost 50 million that voted against The Chosen One, and about 25 million of them are backbone conservatives, sick and tired of being rolled by those that wish to see this country go down. Wherever you live across this country, tune into a local conservative talk radio show, most air before Rush/Hannity/Levine/Beck or after, and you’re going to hear a rising intensity in the tone Americans are taking. We sat back and watched the election get stolen by the newest version of Slick Willy, in large part because the candidate at the top of our ticket wanted a civil tone. He found himself in the ash bin, dusting himself off, only to learn that his own campaign handlers had a very different agenda from his. In many ways, he was utterly clueless and now look where we are. The conservative movement is alive and well and we aren’t going down that path again soon. There has to be substance, not just fluff and flashy smiles and rhetorical garbage.

I agree w/ the gentleman above that suggests massive deportation. We free up millions of jobs the youth vote can take rather than sitting back waiting for that first sweet taste of a welfare check. We put millions to work right now in the detaining/deporting process, millions more stay on and guard the border, build guard towers, fences, detention centers. Meanwhile, America also becomes a whole lot safer and California, Kansas and other failing states run by governors that welcome the ‘undocumented’ into their midst, providing for them in a manor cash-paying legal citizens can’t afford, can pull themselves out of debt instead of expecting the rest of the country to do it.

Bitter disagreement encouraged—please do so before Henry Waxman shuts off all computerized expressions of free speech.

Feb 18, 2009 - 4:59 am 48. Bilgeman:

@12 Steve P.:

“This is probably the most moronic thing I’ve read on this board today. Nice going.”

And then you topped his effort by a country mile…

“The unskilled workers are the the Republican voters from the south and midwest who spent so much time not learning math or science that now they find themselves without any real marketable skills.”

Keep telling yourself that.

Y’know, with attitudes like yours, I’d be happy to be quit of you.

“The liberal northeast and liberal west coast, i.e., the educated parts, are those that have the learned knowledge and skills to adapt to a crummy economy and stay afloat. Unfortunately, it is the wealthy, educated liberal northeast that will have to bail out and prop up the poor, uneducated conservative south and midwest with their tax dollars. Like we always have.”

I’m quite willing to peacefully let you secede. Maybe after a few years you can petition Canada to let you in.

Nice troll, though.

Feb 18, 2009 - 6:47 am 49. seven:

Obama is to blame. In his litigation for poor/blacks in the ‘hood, he sued city when citi rejected loans for applicants that had no down payment and no revenue. It is “cheeper” to loan the money than to fight a discrimination suit on rejecting a loan. Now it come around and the home is foreclosed.

I am looking for the number that shows how many thousands of homes were financed where the very first payment was delinquent or never paid.

Feb 18, 2009 - 6:50 am 50. Ian Thorpe:

@29 Steve P.
While not being part of the argument about Obama’s tendency to be “economical with the truth” I would like to explain a point about political science.

You cite those trsditionall Democrat voting states as the ones receiving the lest subsidy while the ones receiving most are traditionally Rupublican you claim (I don’t doubt you but can’t be bothered checking) Does it not occur to you that Team Obama are confident of retaining the support of the Democrat states and so are aiming to buy the votes of the Republican ones. Don’t forget, only a day after the inauguration Obama supporters were calling for a change in the law you allow him to serve as many terms as he wished rather than the statutory maximum two.

Obama is hardly the most deft political operator ever. When Adolf Hitler pulled the same stunt in Germany around eighty years ago he did it with much more subtlety.

Feb 18, 2009 - 9:09 am 51. Steve P.:

Ian Thorpe: “Obama is hardly the most deft political operator ever. When Adolf Hitler pulled the same stunt in Germany around eighty years ago he did it with much more subtlety.”

Ha ha ha ha! Now we’re criticizing President Obama for not being Hittler-y enough!? You’re out of your mind!

Feb 18, 2009 - 9:21 am 52. Sara (Pal2Pal):

Let’s see, it is the bankers and less than honorable investors in NEW YORK CITY who have caused this financial crisis, it is the Unions (with lots of Dem support) who are bringing down the auto industry, just like they did the steel industry. It is ACORN with lots of help from dems who have caused the crisis in the real estate markets. And, California is being shut down because of an out-of-control predominately dem legislature that is the cause, along with the service unions and the special interest groups who have turned Calif. into a nanny-state. And it is the dems, for political votes, who support illegals and are all for them getting equal rights the same as citizens.

And if my life depended on it, I would take a hard working midwesterner or southerner over the metrosexual elite when it comes to survival. People who know how to grow and preserve their own food, who know how to hunt and fish to provide food, who know how to use tools to build shelter and produce clothing. Can you see some Hahvahd elitist capable of any of those things? Shoot they’d be crying that they messed up their expensive manicures or that any kind of physical labor is beneath them.

Feb 18, 2009 - 12:18 pm 53. Baculus:

Did most you just become politically aware? After the last eight years of sometimes questionable leadership from the Bush White House, the lot of you are suddenly concerned about issues that should have been voiced years ago?

It’s both puzzling and mind-boggling. Republicans that didn’t have a care in the world for budget deficits and national debts are suddenly declaring themselves “fiscally conservative.” And a mince-wording President Bush is suddenly forgotten, while a right-wing debate swirls around Obama’s defense – angry or joking? – about his ears.

It’s absurd, and a sort of “prolefeed” offered up instead of debate on more substantial issues.

I mean – really – Obama’s ears?

Some of the posters here have made some questionable statements as well. For example, AlexinCT said:

“Remember the left, like every other vile entity on this planet, believes that the end justifies the means.”

Hmmm, unlike the Bush administration that “fixed the facts” in its push to invade Iraq? Many Americans feel that the right-wing and Republicans believe that the “end justifies the means as well.” That supporting cocaine-dealing Nicaragua Contras is fine as long as they oppose a socialist Sandinista regime. That supporting a dictator in Saddam is fine, as long as he oppose an Islamic Iran. That misleading the US public isn’t an issue, as long as it fits the need to invade Iraq and overthrow Saddam.

Do you really believe that it’s the Left which believes that the end justifies the means? I would argue against that particular belief.

The hypocrisy seething from the American Right is incredible.

Feb 18, 2009 - 1:08 pm 54. Rotwang:

42. Jerry — You’re very close. Just extend your argument to the logical conclusion.

Western consumer economies have been pulling the rest of the world along for many years, but globalization means that we are no longer competitive as either a vendor or a workforce. Which means that our standard of living needs to drop significantly. Which means that we won’t have the consumer power to pull the rest of the world along, etc., etc. Contract, deflate, repeat.

At some point, the whole planet will reach some sort of entropic equilibrium state — midway between Angola and Libya — but we really don’t know what happens then. Once the banks and corporations went global and free trade pacts were installed, nations lost the capacity to accumulate or horde wealth that wasn’t strictly natural-resource based. Nations, as such, will be mostly interchangeable and irrelevant, and we can only hope that the remaining banks and transnational business entities are inclined to rule benignly over their 7 billion minimum-wage minions.

The obvious wild card is that the few nuclear-armed nations might see the writing on the wall and decide to re-establish regional empires, complete with the colonial inequities that enable a wealthy, small ruling class. Of course, that could go wrong about a million ways, resulting in massive die-offs and a largely “Beyond Thunderdome” scenario.

In defense of Obama, you can imagine how badly the American public would react to hearing it laid out in plain words that we’ve only been living large on the basis of war economies and the developing world’s willingness to float our long-term debt in exchange for current real dollars that helped them reach a point where we’re no longer necessary…and that we all need to think about planting a garden and treating hot water as a luxury.

From a purely practical standpoint, a promise of hope and one last round of crazy-ass borrowing is definitely a happier choice.

The stimulus will fail. So would tax cuts. So would everything. So we might as well have one last party before we face the music and figure out what we’re going to be on the other side of the Apocalypse.

Feb 18, 2009 - 3:49 pm 55. blogengeezer:

I have noticed a bit of discontent on both sides. The new ‘Stim’ is loaded with ‘Lawyer Ready’ funding. The courts will be running full dockits for years. Funds to prosecute and funds to defend against the prosecution. Funds to take statements, funds to gather evidence, funds to aquire professional witnesses for each side, funds to provide the most impartial judges money can buy. Then of course after the long awaited decision, the always expected appeals and re-trials.
Then the entire process can start from the beginning. If done in the manner taught in law schools, it will take countless decades of financial burden on the population, all in the name of ‘Rule of Law’. I understand completely, the reason why Egypt built Pyramids. Much more satisfying to see an architecturally and beautifully engineered piece of diligent, back breaking work that lasts for many thousands of years. Now that is what the definition of ‘Shovel Ready’ means.

Feb 18, 2009 - 6:32 pm 56. Alex:

Glass Steagal Act was repealed in 1999 by President Clinton, which was actually called the Gramm – Leach – Bliley act. This allowed Banks to once again create and market thru self owned divisions worthless paper to each other and institutions. (they were barred from doing this since the Great Depression)

President Clinton also signed the commodities modernization act, which caused as much or more damage as repealing Glass Steagal. This allowed derivatives to be sold as unregulated securities and let loose the forces that have created over 500 Trillion in worthless paper held by the banking system.

These two events were required as a package, one would not work alone. By this fact we can deduce that it was purposefull in design and intent. The goal was to unchain restrictions placed on banking system in 1933 and 1934. These restrictions were placed on Banking system as result of congressional investigations to cause of the great depression during the 1930’s.

President Clinton created the environment for todays banking crisis, President Bush Fed the Raging Monster steroids; massively increased Debt that forced Federal Reserve to borrow huge amounts. This massive borrowing fueled credit markets which created ever increasing volumes of derivatives sold in packaged bundles to each other. It was a Game of Musical Chairs, the exact same scenario that occured during the Roaring Twenties.

There was no regulatory body in place to oversee and restrict the flow of Bank Paper (with no assets backing them), it was basically a repeat of the famous Tulip craze 400 years ago in Holland. At least during the Tulip debacle the individual ended up with an armful of flowers, in the derivatives mess there is only pretty paper.

The only rational solution is to nationalize USA banking system until true depth of Damage derivatives have caused is confirmed, We dont know which bank owns what amounts to whom. This is the main reason any funds recieved by banks is immediately sucked up by bank and not extended to people and companies seeking credit. Banks refuse to identify the amount of derivatives they hold, which today total about 550 TRILLION in US dollars.

We can keep sending banks funds, it will not help or solve the problem. The economy is not suffering because there isnt enough liquidity, the economy is suffering because liquidity is absorbed by banking system to offset derivative losses before it can get to commercial marketplace. Until the weak link is eliminated ( banks hijacking the funds), we will continue to throw money at the problem without any hope of fixing it.

Feb 18, 2009 - 6:47 pm 57. David S:

@47. Redheart:

I agree w/ the gentleman above that suggests massive deportation.

When do you leave?

Peace.

DS

Feb 18, 2009 - 11:17 pm 58. Rocky:

To 57. David S.
As of today, natural-born Americans with valid birth certificates are not being deported because they disagree with the Democrat Party and the socialists that: (1) welcome the financial burden imposed by illegals, (2) the drug traffic coming across our borders, (3) the increased violent crime and strain on our penal systems, (4) the resurgence of diseases here such as TB, measles and other communicable illnesses that are traced to illegals (4)the budget-breaking burden on our schools and educational facilities in providing bilingual instructors and classroom materials, and (5) hospitals and ER’s that have been forced to close because they can no longer afford the burden of providing non-reimbursed healthcare services. At least for today, David S., Americans that would like to see those hardworking illegals that ‘just want a better way of life for their kids’ apply that work ethic and desire for an improved existence in their home countries, are not being deported. Afterall, we are in our country of origin. We haven’t slipped across a border and on foreign soil, voiced an opinion shared by the majority. At least for today……..but, folks like you ARE in power, sir, so anything can happen tomorrow, right?

Feb 19, 2009 - 7:01 am 59. Fantom:

[quote]21. [/quote]

[b]j[/b]

Feb 19, 2009 - 3:42 pm

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