Comments on: The Saving Grace in McCain’s Energy Policy http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-saving-grace-in-mccains-energy-policy/ Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:05:19 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: jimv http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-saving-grace-in-mccains-energy-policy/comment-page-2/#comment-124582 jimv Mon, 13 Oct 2008 14:56:17 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-saving-grace-in-mccains-energy-policy/#comment-124582 but what about Butanol? After reading "Energy Victory" I was convinced of the wisdom of changing over to flex fuel automobiles as soon as possible. But then just recently I discovered this article about Butanol. Butanol is another alcohol alternative fuel, and has the great advantage that it can be used in today's cars without modification. From the material presented, it looks like it would be much better for the ethanol producers to switch their production to butanol immediately. Therefore, the course of action is not to push the Open Fuels Standards Act, but 1) to push Congress to fund rapid research into volume production of Butanol, and 2) push the automakers to allow use of Butanol in their vehicles without voiding the manufacturer's warranty. but what about Butanol?

After reading “Energy Victory” I was convinced of the wisdom of changing over to flex fuel automobiles as soon as possible. But then just recently I discovered this article about Butanol. Butanol is another alcohol alternative fuel, and has the great advantage that it can be used in today’s cars without modification. From the material presented, it looks like it would be much better for the ethanol producers to switch their production to butanol immediately. Therefore, the course of action is not to push the Open Fuels Standards Act, but 1) to push Congress to fund rapid research into volume production of Butanol, and 2) push the automakers to allow use of Butanol in their vehicles without voiding the manufacturer’s warranty.

]]> By: Breaking the Oil Cartel’s Monopoly « Ronan Conlon http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-saving-grace-in-mccains-energy-policy/comment-page-2/#comment-109190 Breaking the Oil Cartel’s Monopoly « Ronan Conlon Fri, 19 Sep 2008 05:35:51 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-saving-grace-in-mccains-energy-policy/#comment-109190 [...] argue that it is the greatest transfer of wealth in human history with 100 dollar a barrel oil. Zurbin even argues that American independence is at stake given the power of sovereign wealth funds: “OPEC will [...] [...] argue that it is the greatest transfer of wealth in human history with 100 dollar a barrel oil. Zurbin even argues that American independence is at stake given the power of sovereign wealth funds: “OPEC will [...]

]]> By: kabud http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-saving-grace-in-mccains-energy-policy/comment-page-2/#comment-75826 kabud Wed, 16 Jul 2008 02:43:53 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-saving-grace-in-mccains-energy-policy/#comment-75826 Kelly some details on methanol http://xyu.livejournal.com/639657.html also in my blog there are many articles collected and links on the subject Kelly

some details on methanol
http://xyu.livejournal.com/639657.html

also in my blog there are many articles collected and links on the subject

]]> By: kabud http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-saving-grace-in-mccains-energy-policy/comment-page-2/#comment-75821 kabud Wed, 16 Jul 2008 02:22:43 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-saving-grace-in-mccains-energy-policy/#comment-75821 Kelly: if you talk about cost: we buy oil at $150 but then there are added costs to process it to gas and to distribute. METHANOL was sold retail for around $1-$2 a gallon recently then with the oil price jump- the methanol retail price also followed coal to methanol is cheap, there is at least one plant in US that does it on industrial scale AND COAL IS OUR OWN RESERVE- 25% of World coal is HERE I am sure coal-methanol plants are much less expensive then new refineries and: EXXON made it clear: they are not going to build more oil infrastructure because it will never be profitable. They estimate oil to get of the fuel market by 2030, so ..drilling is disinformation(( Kelly:
if you talk about cost:
we buy oil at $150 but then there are added costs to process it to gas and to distribute.

METHANOL was sold retail for around $1-$2 a gallon recently

then with the oil price jump- the methanol retail price also followed

coal to methanol is cheap, there is at least one plant in US that does it on industrial scale

AND COAL IS OUR OWN RESERVE- 25% of World coal is HERE

I am sure coal-methanol plants are much less expensive then new refineries and:
EXXON made it clear: they are not going to build more oil infrastructure because it will never be profitable. They estimate oil to get of the fuel market by 2030, so ..drilling is disinformation((

]]> By: Kelly http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-saving-grace-in-mccains-energy-policy/comment-page-2/#comment-73864 Kelly Sat, 12 Jul 2008 17:08:14 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-saving-grace-in-mccains-energy-policy/#comment-73864 Kabud, one thing I overlooked. Your question about getting the money for oil shale production- Private industry! The only thing holding back production at this time is the fascist psuedo-environmental cult applying pressure on spineless liberal politicians. Remove the road-blocks to mining on federal and private land, and the market will find a way to make oil shale production the more feasible alternative to foreign imports. Kabud, one thing I overlooked. Your question about getting the money for oil shale production- Private industry! The only thing holding back production at this time is the fascist psuedo-environmental cult applying pressure on spineless liberal politicians. Remove the road-blocks to mining on federal and private land, and the market will find a way to make oil shale production the more feasible alternative to foreign imports.

]]> By: Kelly http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-saving-grace-in-mccains-energy-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-73862 Kelly Sat, 12 Jul 2008 17:03:52 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-saving-grace-in-mccains-energy-policy/#comment-73862 Kabud, Frankly, I am unable to find the actual production cost of Methanol, except in euro's from a Swedish study, which means little to me. The cost for oil shale production is around $75-80 barrel, perhaps more. But it is no where near the cost we are paying per barrel at current market for pumped oil from OPEC. Additionally, if you have read my posts at www.knoyd.com, you will see that I am a big proponent of coal to liqued fuel, which for all intents and purposes, is the production of methanol. Coal is a perfect source for methanol, and with 250 years of coal reserves, absolutely, this would be a great opportunity. The bigger factor, however, is independence and security: According to www.knoyd.com ("Drill and Mine US Oil--Buy and Refine US Oil!, copyright 2008), US Energy Independence and Security comes from a three-fold mission: The United States of America… 1. …has a divine destiny to defend democracy in every nation that currently embraces democracy, and promote democratic principles where tyranny and dictatorship runs supreme. This cannot be accomplished while the US is beholden to the very tyrants against whom it fights. 2. …has energy, whether from oil, bio-mass, coal, or nuclear power, as the life-blood of the US economy. The effects of skyrocketing fuel cost have a direct impact on the affordability of food, clothing, and shelter for every citizen, rich or poor. We must bring down the price of energy without further delay. 3. …energy policy plays a vital role in the creation of thousands and thousands of jobs. The oil shale fields alone can produce enough oil to replace our current imports and do so for 240 years. This is a minimum of 5 generations of employment for families in CO, UT, and WY. We have 250 years of coal supplies that can be converted to liquid fuel, and produce thousands of jobs. It is time for liberal politicians to severe ties with fascist, economy-wrecking, pseudo-environmental groups and begin to do what is in the best interest of the whole of the citizens of the United States. It is time for conservative politicians to stand and make a very vocal demand for energy independence and security. And it is time for every citizen to follow in the footsteps of Patrick Henry and declare that “Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings.” (Patrick Henry, 1775, House of Burgesses) Kabud, Frankly, I am unable to find the actual production cost of Methanol, except in euro’s from a Swedish study, which means little to me. The cost for oil shale production is around $75-80 barrel, perhaps more. But it is no where near the cost we are paying per barrel at current market for pumped oil from OPEC.

Additionally, if you have read my posts at http://www.knoyd.com, you will see that I am a big proponent of coal to liqued fuel, which for all intents and purposes, is the production of methanol. Coal is a perfect source for methanol, and with 250 years of coal reserves, absolutely, this would be a great opportunity.

The bigger factor, however, is independence and security:

According to http://www.knoyd.com (”Drill and Mine US Oil–Buy and Refine US Oil!, copyright 2008),

US Energy Independence and Security comes from a three-fold mission:

The United States of America…

1. …has a divine destiny to defend democracy in every nation that currently embraces democracy, and promote democratic principles where tyranny and dictatorship runs supreme. This cannot be accomplished while the US is beholden to the very tyrants against whom it fights.

2. …has energy, whether from oil, bio-mass, coal, or nuclear power, as the life-blood of the US economy. The effects of skyrocketing fuel cost have a direct impact on the affordability of food, clothing, and shelter for every citizen, rich or poor. We must bring down the price of energy without further delay.

3. …energy policy plays a vital role in the creation of thousands and thousands of jobs. The oil shale fields alone can produce enough oil to replace our current imports and do so for 240 years. This is a minimum of 5 generations of employment for families in CO, UT, and WY. We have 250 years of coal supplies that can be converted to liquid fuel, and produce thousands of jobs.

It is time for liberal politicians to severe ties with fascist, economy-wrecking, pseudo-environmental groups and begin to do what is in the best interest of the whole of the citizens of the United States. It is time for conservative politicians to stand and make a very vocal demand for energy independence and security. And it is time for every citizen to follow in the footsteps of Patrick Henry and declare that “Should I keep back my opinions at such a time, through fear of giving offense, I should consider myself as guilty of treason towards my country, and of an act of disloyalty toward the Majesty of Heaven, which I revere above all earthly kings.” (Patrick Henry, 1775, House of Burgesses)

]]> By: kabud http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-saving-grace-in-mccains-energy-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-72157 kabud Wed, 09 Jul 2008 22:06:54 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-saving-grace-in-mccains-energy-policy/#comment-72157 to Kelly: do you have ANY idea -how fast and on -what volume and at -what cost oil shale fields of CO, UT, and WY could be processed? WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE MONEY? compare this to 200 billion cost to totally switch to METHANOL and put an end to OIL STRATEGIC VALUE FOR OUR ENEMY do you understand this concept? feel free to ask if you dont to Kelly:

do you have ANY idea

-how fast and on

-what volume and at

-what cost

oil shale fields of CO, UT, and WY

could be processed?

WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO GET THE MONEY?

compare this to 200 billion cost to totally switch to METHANOL

and put an end to
OIL STRATEGIC VALUE FOR OUR ENEMY

do you understand this concept?

feel free to ask if you dont

]]> By: Kelly http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-saving-grace-in-mccains-energy-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-70626 Kelly Mon, 07 Jul 2008 07:40:08 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-saving-grace-in-mccains-energy-policy/#comment-70626 So, am I missing something here? Everyone is talking nuclear, bio, ethanol, etc., but no one is talking oil shale! We have 240 years worth of oil in the oil shale fields of CO, UT, and WY, at today's consumption rates. We already know how to mine it, and refine it, so why all the talk about everything else? Rather than putting our tax dollars to work coming up with gimmicks for alternative fuels, put that money into mining, refining, and developing systems for cleaner emmissions of fossil fuels, put Americans to work for the next 5 generations, and get on with life... So, am I missing something here? Everyone is talking nuclear, bio, ethanol, etc., but no one is talking oil shale! We have 240 years worth of oil in the oil shale fields of CO, UT, and WY, at today’s consumption rates.

We already know how to mine it, and refine it, so why all the talk about everything else? Rather than putting our tax dollars to work coming up with gimmicks for alternative fuels, put that money into mining, refining, and developing systems for cleaner emmissions of fossil fuels, put Americans to work for the next 5 generations, and get on with life…

]]> By: Israpundit » Blog Archive » McCain proposes flex fuel vehicles http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-saving-grace-in-mccains-energy-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-67119 Israpundit » Blog Archive » McCain proposes flex fuel vehicles Tue, 01 Jul 2008 13:28:22 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-saving-grace-in-mccains-energy-policy/#comment-67119 [...] Pajamas Media [...] [...] Pajamas Media [...]

]]> By: keimica http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-saving-grace-in-mccains-energy-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-67006 keimica Tue, 01 Jul 2008 10:17:43 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/the-saving-grace-in-mccains-energy-policy/#comment-67006 I think Robert Zubrin has said pretty much all that needs to be said on this matter...coal to gasoline is expensive-and to make it, you first turn it into methanol! I think Robert Zubrin has said pretty much all that needs to be said on this matter…coal to gasoline is expensive-and to make it, you first turn it into methanol!

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