The Urge to Purge Solves Nothing
Conservatives don’t win support by condemning folks seen as "fringe" elements.
Many prominent young bloggers say its time conservatives altered their fortunes and cast off those intellectual dead weights who stir up irrational fear. Time to throw off those whose intellectual bankruptcy has left the conservative movement with no credibility in the eyes of the American people.
No, they’re not calling for the removal of those writers and political leaders who told us that if we didn’t give the Treasury $700 billion to distribute to corporate America, the world as we know it would end, thus undermining free-market economics. Rather, the talk from young political guns Patrick Ruffini and Jon Henke has been about the need to purge WorldNetDaily’s Joseph Farah and the birthers. Ruffini called for the conservatives to bend it like William Buckley, who famously purged the John Birch Society from the conservative movement. Ruffini even calls for a return of “Buckleyite elite,” which will come after conservatives take the necessary steps to expel from their midst the rabble that believe in nutty conspiracies.
I’ve mixed feelings on Mr. Farah, and questioning the president’s country of origin is a waste of time. However, the calls for “purges” are wrongheaded for several reasons.
First is the issue of practicality. Mr. Buckley detailed his experience with the John Birch Society in an article for Commentary in 2008. Of his excoriation of John Birch Society founder Robert Welch, Buckley wrote of conservatives who gathered in Palm Beach to plan a coordinated response to Welch’s kookiness: “The wound we Palm Beach plotters delivered to the John Birch Society proved fatal over time.”
One has to define “fatal” and “over time” quite loosely to say that his attack on the John Birch Society succeeded. In 1983 (twenty-one years after Buckley’s article), Congressman Lawrence McDonald (D-GA) became president of the John Birch Society. That a member of Congress was not only a member but the president of the organization suggests Buckley wasn’t nearly as successful as he thought. Indeed, the John Birch Society exists to this day.
True, it’s not as socially acceptable to be a member of the John Birch Society, but several Birch-like groups have come and gone over the years. The goal of purging all things perceived to be nutty is as impractical now as it was forty-seven years ago, if not more so in the age of the Internet.
Second is the question: who gets to define what the fringe is? Morton Blackwell writes: “Conservatives make a great mistake if they think: I’m as conservative as one can be and still be responsible. Anyone to the right of me is to that extent irresponsible.”
The question is not whether a political fringe exists, but what behavior and beliefs it constitutes. In a society where women wear floor-length skirts, a woman in an ankle-length skirt will be deemed inordinately immodest. As we define up what standards make people acceptable political allies, we find the fringe constantly defined to apply to more conservatives, particularly if we buy the left’s definition. Opponents of same-sex marriage are “homobigots,” opponents of abortion on demand are “anti-choice zealots,” and anyone who doesn’t believe in open borders and unlimited immigration is a “xenophobe.” Go down this road and pretty soon we’ll all be extremists.
Most importantly, “purges” are not the key to winning national elections. In his remembrance, Buckley wrote that, following the 1962 purge, “Barry Goldwater did not win the presidency.” This is akin to saying, “Custer didn’t do well at Little Big Horn.” Goldwater was obliterated by a 61-39 percent margin.
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Adam Graham is a contributor at Race42012.com and host of the Truth and Hope Report podcast. His personal site is Adam's Blog.
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76 Comments
1. Ed Wallis:Here’s my two bits:
you first, please.
Goldberg says it well:
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZGUyNGZlMWEzYmUwZDExMmM3NTAzOTBjMDg2YzdiZjk=
Sep 12, 2009 - 1:58 am 2. Dr.Gianrico:Your argument of the left’s definition of fringe is specious as your premise is faulty. “Homobigots” are not opponents of same sex marriage but those who believe that gays and same sex marrige leads to decline of society’s mores. “Anti-choice zealots” are not just opponent of abortion, but those who confuse pro-choice with pro-abortion. No one is pro-abortion. “Xenophobe” is not for those who are against open borders or unlimited immigration. It is those who harbor unwarranted hatred of other ethnicities and would deny them the opportunity of the American dream. The fringe is defined as those who want homogeneity of thought, ideas, race and creed and has an intolerance for those who are and hold different ideas.
Sep 12, 2009 - 2:18 am 3. cedarhill:One doesn’t build many houses if you go out and destroy what trees you have. As to the birthers, a district court (Federal) will be holding a hearing on whether a case will go forward. If it does (and I hope so), it will be the beginning of the end of the birther issue. Finally one hopes.
Sep 12, 2009 - 4:00 am 4. munroe:And don’t forget, all the Dems think Bush lied, people died, etc., etc., and somehow they won the House, the Senate and the Presidency.
No Dr. Gianrico, you have redefined those terms according to your own definition of what is “extreme,” but the article is about the broader political conversation, not your views. The article accurately describes the way these words are used, and the boundaries that the Left often decries as extreme.
By the way, it can’t be true that “no-one is pro-abortion” because if it was true, there would be no abortion. That is, in specific cases, people are “pro-abortion,” in that they believe it’s the best solution. I guess your point is that they do it with sadness and a heavy heart, or something.
Sep 12, 2009 - 4:07 am 5. David Thomson:But really, nobody here gives a damn about abortionists’ internal wrestling matches with their own conscience.
“I don’t doubt President Obama’s citizenship, but I do wonder why he has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees to avoid disclosing his long form birth certificate on a technicality rather than providing it and putting the matter to rest.”
Has Barack Obama spent “thousands of dollars in legal fees” on this matter? Where is the evidence to support this conclusion? It is my understanding that these “birther” cases are routinely thrown out of court because those filing do not have legal standing. Also, it behooves Obama to keep this madness on the front pages. Most Americans think the birthers are stark raving lunatics. Obama gets away with playing the victim of wild-eyed extremists.
Constitutional legal scholar Hugh Hewitt points out that Obama does not have to prove he is an American citizen! On the contrary, the burden of proof is on his accusers. He was born 48 years ago. The actual witnesses are probably dead. It’s too late to reasonably find out the truth if a fraud was actually perpetuated. Thus, it’s best to shrug one’s shoulders and find something better to do with your time.
Sep 12, 2009 - 4:38 am 6. Stupid Is:Agreed that both parties have their fringe elements, the essential difference being that it actually benefits one party; while it harms the other.
The Democrats’ philosophy is, “No matter how weird you are come on in, grab a free beer and hot dog; then vote for us” and it works.
For forty, fifty; maybe even sixty years straight the Republicans kept their own party out of power because of one thing. A prevailing attitude saying that, “Mine doesn’t stink, but yours’ does and that’s why you’ll never be good enough to make the grade into our exclusive club.”
Republicans have never aimed this crap gun at the Democrats, instead using it against each other like someone with a bull whip trying to potty train their puppy dog not to dirty on the carpet.
Does the name “Joe Wilson” ring a bell? One of the first ones to the cameras and microphones the other night was John McCain.
What the hell for? To say that Joe Wilson’s behavior wasn’t acceptable? Or that Joe Wilson isn’t good enough to be a member of the club?
Or the truth really, really hurts in that Joe Wilson proved to the world that he isn’t as good as John McCain and the rest of the inside the beltway blue blood Republicans that “run the show” are?
That is precisely the kind of purging that put Barrack Hussein Obama in the Whitehouse, the Democrat Party in control of the government and the Republican Party yet again sucking the air out of it’s own momentum.
Sep 12, 2009 - 5:12 am 7. robotech master:The simple fact is constitutionalists AKA birthers want answers… Sane ppl go through the simple and make sure everyone and everything is done legal and correctly even if it is a “waste of time”.
We know for a fact that obama was never checked out on this issue and that he actively is blocking any review of his past. One must ask one’s self what do we really know about obama… he is truly the most unknown president in the history of the US.
We can go back at look at Bush and likely be able to find out when he took a bathroom break during high school… yet we know nothing about obama’s grades in any of his schools even in college.
We know nothing… that alone should be reason enough to ask who is the person that is supposedly president.
To 1. Ed Wallis
Thats good write up as well… birthers are treated like jews who came out of germany in the early 30s… no one believed them until it was far to late.
Sep 12, 2009 - 5:29 am 8. Dr. My Foot:Right off the bat Mr. Graham’s point is made by the opt-in comments to this article.
Extensive epistles of goop picking the fly crap out the pepper when all someone said was, “Please pass the salt and pepper.”
The only things voters want to know is short statements about where politicians stand on the issues and how big their power plant is.
He is against abortion. Good, he has my vote.
He is against gay marriage. Good, he has my vote.
He supports Israel. Good, he has my vote.
He believes in school prayer. Good, he has my vote.
When Joe Wilson called Obama a liar he was one of the Republican group there that stood up and said to Nancy Pelosi, “Who are you staring at stretch?” Good, he damn sure has my vote.
Other than Joe Wilson I defy anyone to name one Republican politician that stands out from the crowd because he has courage and guts.
Does that equal 99.999% purging or what?
Sep 12, 2009 - 5:45 am 9. alex:Its interesting how govt encroachment was not applicable until someone you didn’t vote for is president. Then it becomes a moral stand and somehow constitutionally acceptable to stand up and present opposition to the adminstration of the current president.
The error in this framing is of course it is false. Either is is acceptable and patriotic to criticize the presidency, or it is not. It cannot be acceptable when its your guy, and not acceptable when its someone you didn’t vote for.
Sep 12, 2009 - 5:56 am 10. AThinkingPerson:As soon as the Left disavows the fringe loons called amazingly enough the “truthers”, then I’ll listen to arguments about the Right. Until then, the Conservative tent should be HUGE.
Sep 12, 2009 - 5:57 am 11. Eric Dondero:And all the purging does is push well-meaning Republicans right into the welcoming arms of the Libertarian Party, (and to a lesser extent the Constitution Party).
If you think this isn’t something to worry about, consider that the Libertarian candidate for Congress in that special election in California back in July, (battle of the Chus), got 5.3% of the vote. The Republican, about 36%.
Do we really want to go into 2010 risking the loss of 4 to 5% of our vote to the Libertarian Party?
Eric Dondero, Publisher
Sep 12, 2009 - 6:07 am 12. seanmahair:Libertarian Republican
Thanks to the intellectual dead weights, those nags, those who would not alter in their goal to unveil the “truth”, the Census bureau has severed it’s ties to ACORN. While this may not seem like much to many, for those of us in the trenches this is a real victory.
Certain aspects of government today will have a harder time rewriting reality thanks to a dedicated group of conservatives who never gave up, never surrendered even as those they were trying to serve called them names and ridiculed them. Now, hopefully we will get an accurate accounting, without invasive questions of the state of the nation.
Thank you, to those carrying the water. To those who want to ignore the house is on fire or worse those who fan the flames, watch out. When one stands too close to the fire, one is liable to get singed, worse yet the taint of smoke stays with them for a while.
Good luck.
Sep 12, 2009 - 6:13 am 13. Ruebacca:Month after month the number of jobs fall. Businesses in the US are under attack by the executive and the legislature. Corruption is being exposed at all levels of government. When we come out of recession we will face inflation, this has already started in the commodities market. Pluse Obama is betting all his political capital on taking your doctor away.
The path to regain power is not a conservative purge. It’s not the 1960’s. Americans who lived through the 80’s and 90’s know the economy can be managed better than it is today. We need to hammer the left for the misery it has created and is trying to exploit. Goldwater’s loss in 1964 was in a very different context than we are in today. Pulse don’t forget the liar Johnson would not have gotten the nomination in 1968 even if he tried.
Sep 12, 2009 - 6:37 am 14. George S.:ADAM GRAHAM ….it seems you fear being purged. don’t worry you may get a job with acorn.
“”I’m less disturbed by Glenn Beck’s paranoia than I am by those who, like an eighteen-year-old who thinks he’ll live forever, view the republic as an unsinkable ship that faces no threat other than an al-Qaeda dirty bomb. They ignore world history from Caesar to Hugo Chavez and imagine any fears of America losing its freedom from within to be unprecedented paranoia.”"
very Chamberlain …”peace in our time” …cann’t we just get along.
WHY IS IT WE (conservatives) NEED TO GET ALONG WITH PEOPLE WHO WISH TO ABUSE US AND DO US HARM !
Sep 12, 2009 - 7:01 am 15. BC:The orthodox or fundamentalist part of any religious or political organization always believe they are that organization’s core, as well as being the purest if not the only “true” representatives. No. These are *always* the close minded, holier than thou extremists, be they members of al-Qaeda, Haredi Judaism, or the Southern Baptists. Or the sort of people quick to label others as RINO’s or CINO’s. Always the obstacle and never the road….
Sep 12, 2009 - 7:20 am 16. David Thomson:“I’m less disturbed by Glenn Beck’s paranoia than…”
Can you be a bit more specific? I have seen no evidence whatsoever indicating that Glenn Beck suffers from paranoia. As matter of fact, I usually agree with him on most issues.
Sep 12, 2009 - 7:38 am 17. George S.:16. David Thomson:
“I’m less disturbed by Glenn Beck’s paranoia than…”
Can you be a bit more specific? I have seen no evidence whatsoever indicating that Glenn Beck suffers from paranoia. As matter of fact, I usually agree with him on most issues.
my sentiments as well. I think Adam Graham is trying to undermine Glen Beck, I noticed it in a different piece earlier in the week. Don’t recall the author of the piece.
a Quiseling perhaps ?
Sep 12, 2009 - 7:48 am 18. Kipling:As a social conservative, it seems like someone wants to purge me from the party every other month. Nonetheless, I am willing to work with anyone who actively pursues conservative principles. In the political wars against the left, I recognize both allies and co-belligerents. Allies are people I would agree with 80% or more of the time. Co-belligerents are people that I might only agree with on a couple of issues but I’ll work with them for the common good on those issues. Joe Lieberman would be a good example of a co-belligerent in the War on Terror and support for Israel. Normally, I would disagree with him on most other issues but we can work together on the war. No principles are compromised and each of us can work faithfully together.
The only people we need to purge are the elitist in the party who consider their popularity with the press and protecting their insider status more important than advancing conservative principles. Yes, that means John McCain, who is always a willing idiot that the press will use to attack other conservatives.
Sep 12, 2009 - 8:02 am 19. Calvin Ball:David (5), these lawyers don’t work on contingency. Even if the case is thrown out, you still get a bill.
Sep 12, 2009 - 8:10 am 20. Fred Beloit:Shall we look at a couple of examples? When, if ever, has Senator Snowe ever voted in a way that would indicate she is a Republican and supports Repub positions, much less conservative positions?
Arlen Spector? Oh, OK. He just recently admitted what most of us knew for quite a while…I am really a Democrat.
If Spector wanted to come back, which of you would say, Oh yeah, quick, send him a nice campaign contribution.
Sep 12, 2009 - 8:19 am 21. Calvin Ball:As I’ve said before, the paper mache heads over the past eight years haven’t hurt the donkeys. Quite the contrary, a certain amount of political theater seems to focus the attention of the independents with ADD.
Frankly, rather than worrying about birthers or whatever, the bigger red herring that the left uses to the point of crying wolf is the association of the “extreme right” with Fascists and Nazis. There’s much bigger danger in indulging the Buchanan/Paul whackadoodle axis than birthers.
That’s where the bright line needs to be drawn. Someone espousing racism can occasionally say something that sounds sensible, just like a stopped (analog) clock is right twice a day. But the white power crowd doesn’t deserve the honor of the title of conservative. They belong on the far left totalitarian side right next to the Black Panthers. They’re brethren in all except the definition of master race.
Sep 12, 2009 - 8:21 am 22. Sara123:We seem to be plgaued with radical “moderates” again in the GOP. Extremists refer to these folks as Rinos because they care about one thing -power for themselves. It does not matter if the GOP is a permanent minority, as it was for decades before Reagan and Newt, as long as the moderates get to be in on the socialist negotiations and oppress any sub-cultures or ideas – including the constitution – that are uncomfortable. The Rinos made a deal with the Marxists: Marxists cleanse the American culture and legal system anyway they see fit and the Capitalists rape the economy any way they see fit. Marxists dictate social thought (political correctness) and the capitalists dictate economic policy (corruption and globalism).
Republican moderates do not care if the GOP is a minority party as long as they control the power of the party so there is no opposition to or interference with the ruling deal they have made with the Marxists. When they argue for purging the party of the politically incorrect, they have nothing to do with Buckley. Buckley was not a Rino and he was not for making the establishment comfortable while they cleanse the culture and rape the constitution and Treasury. These young people calling for a purge of conservative ideas don’t understand what they are doing. But how could they? They have been purposefully culturally cleansed of the founding American and the constitution in their education and social indoctrination.
Sep 12, 2009 - 8:31 am 23. Rick H:I don’t care much about obama’s birth records because he has those effectively buried. What I care about are his ACADEMIC records. Why can’t we see those? Why can’t we read his thesis? Decades old theses are relevant in VA gubenatorial races, why not see the Prez’s? We keep hearing how “brilliant” obama is without a shred of visible proof. We saw kerry and gore’s records and found out they weren’t any smarter than GWB.
As far as the moderates being ashamed of us goes, who was the most conservative candidate the Republicans have run for President in the last, oh, ever? Ronald Reagan Who won the biggest landslide and another in the top 5 (which was only muted by a 3rd party candidate or it would have been right there with the second one) in the history of the country? Ronald Reagan Now, would needs to be controlling the party? When moderates run things we get stellar candidates like Dole, Bush 1, McCain – how does that turn out? Hell, if Bush 2 had been an actual conservative he numbers never would have gotten so bad. Fewer and fewer of us are willing to elect people who are going to allow themselves to get run over by the thugs on the left.
Sep 12, 2009 - 8:46 am 24. Tom Perkins:“I don’t doubt President Obama’s citizenship, but I do wonder why he has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees to avoid disclosing his long form birth certificate on a technicality rather than providing it and putting the matter to rest.”
As much of a fool as I think Obama is, I suspect his refusal to show the long form is an application of the principle that you never interrupt an opponent while they are making a mistake.
Sep 12, 2009 - 8:55 am 25. George S.:24. Tom Perkins:
“I don’t doubt President Obama’s citizenship, but I do wonder why he has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees to avoid disclosing his long form birth certificate on a technicality rather than providing it and putting the matter to rest.”
As much of a fool as I think Obama is, I suspect his refusal to show the long form is an application of the principle that you never interrupt an opponent while they are making a mistake.
THAT would not explain the huge amount he has spent to keep it hidden …(of course it is not his money)
there is another new piece to the puzzle just posted.
…. http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=109363
a little transparency would go a long way …hopefully as far a Kenya
Sep 12, 2009 - 9:37 am 26. Bob:I’m all for welcoming every idea, pundit, movement that will help in 2010 to halt the destruction of the country.
Sep 12, 2009 - 10:00 am 27. Rashputin:But I don’t like people who pose as conservatives–think A. Huffington–who have very different intentions should they gain the power and support they seek from us. I think we need to watch out for those.
Be wary.
Every few generations we sort of trash the conventional wisdom and build the country anew in a totally unexpected way. It’s that time again. It’ll be the great unwashed masses of “radical” conservative folks and “radical” independents who decide what rules the game is played by for the coming sixty or so years.
The great democrat socialist dream of ruling the masses isn’t going to happen.
The great RINO nobility dream of ruling the masses isn’t going to happen.
What’s going to happen is an end to the entire political nobility class that built itself duchies and fiefdoms around the FDR castle of elitism. Democrat, Republican, it makes no difference. Those who, like the bloggers you mention, believe they have the right to decide what the real issues are and who the worthwhile people are just more of the same old thing. Control is their goal, and they have to go.
Sep 12, 2009 - 10:04 am 28. Calvin Ball:The “birther” question has been framed dishonestly. Someone asking a question isn’t asserting a positive. If I buy a house, I don’t accuse the seller of selling a house with termites when I hire an inspector. I accuse him only after I hire the inspector and the inspector finds the termites. Until then, there’s no accusation. It’s just routine due diligence. Trust but verify, as one historical figure once said.
Asking to see the long form is not the same thing as claiming that he’s not a NBS. People who confuse these things are either confused, or disingenuous.
Sep 12, 2009 - 10:57 am 29. Shef Rogers:Here’s a quick summary of the article, for busy folks: We shouldn’t alienate borderline crazies, because that’s our core demographic.
Sep 12, 2009 - 2:16 pm 30. Warren Bonesteel:I couldn’t agree more.
When 39% of Americans doubt Obama’s qualifications, it is no loner a ‘fringe belief.’
If you wish to purge the ‘conservative movement’ of all dissenters, you are no better than anyone who tells you that you must ’stop wearing blue jeans’ or that you must “leave the room.”
Such political purity ‘movements’ led to 70 million dead in Russia and to more than 13 million dead civilians in Germany and Europe…or to the legacies of tyrants such as Pol Pot or even that of Mugabe.
You claim to hate tyrants, but you encourage tyranny over those who are different than yourselves. Both major political parties in America now invoke and practice this ideological tyranny.
To claim that it just can’t happen in America is to ignore the entire history of mankind.
To be different is no sin. To force others to live and believe and to
think just as you do? That leads to the destruction of the world. That enslaves all others to your own will and desires. That is sin.
Be careful what you wish and pray and hope for. You just might get it.
Sep 12, 2009 - 2:19 pm 31. 24AheadDotCom:I got “purged” from TheNextRight; see my discussion of that and my experience with Ruffini and Henke in the comments here:
http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/09/playing_with_fire.php
Sep 12, 2009 - 2:40 pm 32. BC:To Warren Bonesteel: No – fringe is fringe. No matter how many people believe in something stupid, it’s still something stupid.
Sep 12, 2009 - 4:23 pm 33. Warren Bonesteel:Belief in ideological purity is as stupid as it gets…and is in total opposition to the precepts and ideals contained within the nation’s founding documents.
Sep 12, 2009 - 4:37 pm 34. Kipling:We need to keep somethings in view. While we do not need 100% ideological purity, we do need the majority of us to agree on some fundamentals. We do not want an ideological tent so big that a Marxist would feel comfortable in the GOP. There is something to be said for excluding people for the right reasons.
Sep 12, 2009 - 6:17 pm 35. Charles Kirtley:If anyone should be expelled from the conservative movement it should be the RINOs and so-called moderates in Congress who vote with the Democrats on most issues.
Sep 12, 2009 - 8:16 pm 36. bc3:Liberal Republicans like Ruffini, Frum. Hinke, Moran, Murphy and McKinnon view the enemy as Republicans with whom they disagree – Palin, DeMint, Wilson, Bachmann, etc. – rather than Obama, Pelosi and Reid.
What Ruffini claims Buckley accomplished far overshadows what Buckley actually accomplished. People like Buckley, Ruffini and Frum theorize. People like Reagan, DeMint and Palin actually get things done.
Sep 12, 2009 - 8:21 pm 37. robtr:All of this purging crap by Hinke and Frum et. al. is rediculous. There is no upside. If Rush, Beck, WND and whoever else is ruffling the purgers panties today were to disappear the left and MSM will find someone else and who is going to do the purging?
I would like to tell Frum and Henke to go vote with the left since they spend most of their time doing their dirty work for them but we have a democracy. If they beleive their vote is better served voting for a R then fine go do it. Am I going to listen to a word they have to say? No a chance.
Sep 12, 2009 - 8:24 pm 38. Warren Bonesteel:If you promote the concept of ‘negative liberties’ ala Locke and Hobbes, then well and good. When you promote the concepts of limitations on the liberties of others, you have become a tyrant and an idealogue.
When you adopt and promote the concepts of ‘positive liberties,’ as many of you have stated here, either openly or by implication, you’ve become that which you claim to hate.
Sep 12, 2009 - 8:28 pm 39. Warren Bonesteel:Also see:
‘The Meaning of The American Revolution: John Adams to H. Niles. 1818.’
and…
“Declaration of Causes and Necessity of Taking up Arms.” by Thomas Jefferson (July 6, 1775)
Sep 12, 2009 - 8:30 pm 40. misanthopicus:All Farrah’s articles about Obama end with: “WND has reported that among the documentation not yet available for Obama includes his kindergarten records, Punahou school records, Occidental College records, Columbia University records, Columbia thesis, Harvard Law School records, Harvard Law Review articles, scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, passport, medical records, files from his years as an Illinois state senator, his Illinois State Bar Association records, any baptism records, and his adoption records.”
Is this nothing? Ignorable? I don’t think so – and if it weren’t for Farrah’s, the Right Side Of Life or other “dedicated” blogs like these, very many unquestioned facets of our current presidency would go un-noticed, and this nation sure wouldn’t benefit from that.
To leave the coverage of any, and particularly of this mighty dubious presidency in the hands of Matthews, Arrianne, Michael Moore, Pinch and the rest of the sycophantic clowns that make for the moral class of this nation would be suicidal – and imperfect as they might be, Farrah and others like him are truly helping this nation steer away from the terrible costs that the Obama will otherwise inflict upon us.
Just a couple of examples:
* Do you trust LA Times? Then, has LA Times published a SINGLE notice about the fact the US District Court (Central California) HAS SET A HEARING date for a matter “closely” related to Obama’s legitimacy just for a few months down the road (next January; also, the Central Calif US District Court location is not in Alabama or Sitka, but at twenty-five miles S-W Los Angeles, in Santa Ana) – then, is this a trivial, or a not geographically related issue?
I don’t think so, and you want to leave the coverage of this matter in the hands of those who describe in LA Times or New Times that Obama won the election by a landslide, and prop 8 won by a a… slim margin.
* More for Farrah – if his latest (as of today) confirms, he is indeed onto a big thing – via a Canadian blogger/ resercher now he’s running a very intriguing story about how the DNC ran in Denver, after Obama’s nomination TWO (2!) sets of formal, nomination announcements: (WND – What Did Nancy Pelosi… legitimacy.”)
1) one for inner circulation, that duly informs that Obama HAS FULLFILLED THE CONSTITUTIONAL REQUIRMENTS FOR BEING NOMINATED AS POTUS, and a second one, which WAS SENT AS AN OFFICIAL NOTE TO ALL STATE SECRETARIES IN COUNTRY (57 of them, if I correctly recall), which -
2) DIDN’t HAVE the “Constitutional requirement fulfilled” wording, therefore DISCULPATING IN ADVANCE the DNC in this matter if the shit… contortion nicely anticipating Dr. Fukino’s semantic tumbles of a later date -
So, Graham should spend some time advising Ruffini and Henke about the dangers of being hip, supeficial & off (and doing a troll’s job) – I never heard about these two twits, probably they’re some Politico wannabees, who lost in their cool don’t realize that they’re the Issakoff of their generation and, that in not very long time they’ll be exactly like the NY Times and LA Times guys, enviously glowering at Matt Drudge (and later at Charlie Johnson), in this case at… Farrah. (An additional warning: when talking about blogging self-marginalization, Charlie’s LGF is a comical example of mindless, pin-ball politicking that’s done a prevciously a quality enterprise.)
So, since Farrah’s petition is steadily gaining signatures (by winter it might gather 1 million), here’s one for him – and for sorry guys like Ruffini and Hanke, hope I see them in panels with James Rainey (and this is not a flatery).
Any questions? Review this again: “WND has reported that among the documentation not yet available for Obama includes his kindergarten records, Punahou school records, Occidental College records, Columbia University records, Columbia thesis, Harvard Law School records, Harvard Law Review articles, scholarly articles from the University of Chicago, passport, medical records, files from his years as an Illinois state senator, his Illinois State Bar Association records, any baptism records, and his adoption records.”
Tags: Words, birthers, nuts, loons, conspiracists –
Sep 12, 2009 - 8:51 pm 41. Anonymous:Eat you keyboards, sorry Isikoff clones -
Bob #26:
Arianna Huffington is an excellent case in point. She decided she was a conservative when she thought she could come in and “clean house.” I saw first-hand at one of The Weekend events how she held Newt Gingrich in contempt. And sure enough, she showed her true feelings and beliefs when she created the Huffington Post.
The correct strategy is not to eject anyone who doesn’t conform to a checklist of beliefs and associations. The correct strategy is to define a platform based on common principles we can all support, and then invite everyone who supports those principles to help us advance that agenda.
Sep 12, 2009 - 9:52 pm 42. stuiec:Bob #26:
Arianna Huffington is an excellent case in point. She decided she was a conservative when she thought she could come in and “clean house.” I saw first-hand at one of The Weekend events how she held Newt Gingrich in contempt. And sure enough, she showed her true feelings and beliefs when she created the Huffington Post.
The correct strategy is not to eject anyone who doesn’t conform to a checklist of beliefs and associations. The correct strategy is to define a platform based on common principles we can all support, and then invite everyone who supports those principles to help us advance that agenda.
Sep 12, 2009 - 9:53 pm 43. Bill Beahan:You made sense and provided food for thought until you acused Beck of being paranoid which could be considered a sort of purge. In the Regan revolution we came together on a few core principles tht Reagn pushed: 1) Defeat the Soviet Union (Reagan ignored Henry the Kook), 2)Lower Taxes 3)JUdges that respected the constitution. On #3 even pro-choice Rudi Giuliani upport it because if you read the Constitution the states can decide either way for themselves. The thing to do is run on a few core principles. Like Reagan. and if you agree with someone 80-90% of the time accept them.
Sep 12, 2009 - 10:00 pm 44. Doug C.:There’s the old adage of keeping your friends close, but your enemies closer. The same principle applies to fringe groups. You don’t dare alienate them or risk losing the votes or worse, they run their own candidate and split the vote. I am not like some at LGF and other sites that would destroy the GOP to save it from the “radical” elements. The inescapable truth is that the fringe elements are always going to be here. The issue is how to channel and control them for the greater purposes of the party. The concern is what will be their price for their support when the time comes.
Sep 12, 2009 - 10:00 pm 45. Congressman Tom Price fan:Nobody in the Republican Party should take advice from Patrick Ruffini, particularly if you are a conservative.
Patrick Ruffini is a RINO. He was an e-campaign adviser to Rudy Guliani during the last presidential election.
Patrick Ruffini supports “immigration reform”. If you believe that 20 to 30 million illegal aliens should be awarded legal status and a path to citizenship, then maybe you should care about what Ruffini has to say.
Sep 12, 2009 - 10:09 pm 46. jann:Purge??? We want to unite with all who believe in and want to restore the government back to the constitution. We are for the individual no matter what race, gender, poor, rich, educated, not educated, what ever religion, we are for all the people. We are for liberty/freedom period. We will succeed with the truth and our heart and souls as our weapons. I know you are fearful but don’t be and may I say, hold on but I want to say this, God will be with us so we have started today well actually it started with the guy on MSNBC when he mentioned the tea parties and it blossomed. We are not paranoid we are very determined and we will succeed it’s as simple as that.
Sep 12, 2009 - 11:05 pm 47. Edouard:Great article, Charles Johnson of littlegreenfootballs.com desperately needs to read it and think about it.
Sep 12, 2009 - 11:22 pm 48. Poor Citizen:As most political veterans already know. Long after all the hot air speeches and yelling and the results, its those on the fringes of either party that are usually left during the “lean years” in between the election seasons. The main problem(s) of each party is what to do once they start to grow. Faced with growth, the republicans will have to sooner or later, embrace minority views. And faced with growth, the democrats also have had to embrace minority views. Doing this troubles both base(s) within each major party. Small parties do not have that problem. This has always been, and shall always continue I suspect.
Sep 13, 2009 - 1:14 am 49. Athos:History and common sense indicates that it is imperative to prevent or to purge the fringe from the GOP – just as William Buckley advocated in the 1960’s.
The Conservative movement cannot succeed if the Birthers, Birchers, Stormfront, Paulian, Alex Jones, and other extreme fringe elements gain any credence or perception of control. These groups represent the far fringe of the right and will be used as a legitimate kudgel against any conservative movement.
Morally and ethically, there is nothing redeeeming or acceptable about the key messages from the fringe groups or their lame attempts at trying to spin an explanation that their positions are not racist, bigoted, or misrepresent core conservative values.
Organizations like the WND, the elements around the Ron Paul “Revolution”, and other fringe right wing organizations lose any credibility when they react in the manners that they do. Invective against persons like Charles Johnson (LGF) who stand against the lunacy of the Birthers, Birchers, Paulians, and others is invective against the mainstream of the conservative movement.
Sep 13, 2009 - 2:23 am 50. Warren Bonesteel:Conservatives have spent the last five years purging the base and controlling the message.
How’s that worked out for ya? More of the same will do the trick, eh!
Well, good hunting, there, kids.
See ya on the new fringe.
Sep 13, 2009 - 4:22 am 51. Gary Ogletree:Those who want to do all this purging are not conservatives at all. I may not agree with all that is at World Net Daily but they are open and honest to the core. WND broke the Zar Jones story in April. They bear no resemblance to the John Birch Society. As a southerner I understand why many people wave the Confederate battle flag. Like Malcolm X, they can be criticized for the rascism it once stood for, but can be applauded for the defiant independent spirit and pride it represents to many. As an old truck driver once told me, “I don’t display that flag because my black friends wouldn’t understand.” Some people may be embarrassed by the overt Christian element at WND, not a problem for this Buddhist. It’s a far cry to appreciate our allies in the conservative cause from the Democrats’ seating of Code Pink and Michael Moore in places of honor. They are welcome to do it, they are stupid to do it.
Sep 13, 2009 - 5:07 am 52. Grace O'Malley:Charles Johnson is not a conservative, never was. He’s an old liberal who had his eyes opened a wee bit over 9/11 and who then took up the cause of exposing the Jihadists. However, the moment he decided to equate Orthodox Christianity with Jihadists he lost his conservative credentials. He has a near hatred of those who are religious and who refuse to swallow Darwinism. Anyone who does not agree with him is swooped off the site and if they are another blogger, rabidly attacked.
Sep 13, 2009 - 5:24 am 53. florin:What is going on in the party is a showdown over whether the Progressive Republicans’ get to continue to run the party as a blue blood nobility institution or if the constitutional conservative rabble get a place at the table.
I’m a 15 year Romanian immigrant. I am an American holding on to the fathers of this country more so then most Americans.
Now, hear this: Most of you Americans are idiots, ignorant, gullible and wimps. I am talking about the conservatives here.
As for me, I had to stand up against guns pointed at us and many died in a bloody revolution. I was holding the revolutionary flag as a young man with my heart throbbing in exciting that freedom is around the corner. I’m here now watching how my freedoms are being stolen away.
You have a liar in the White House, the media covers for him blindly and you want us to remain civil. You expect Wilson to apologize. What a theatrical nonsense.
This country is being stolen from us by leftist slobs and you want us to remain civil? Shame on you! I don’t call to violence although there is a time for that too; (what is the 4th celebrating?).
You know, you’d rather have the whole country go down in the hands of an American Chavez yet remain civil. Keep the discourse polite and respectful or else you’d be discredited. This is American nonsense. You know what, all people that knew the president was lying should’ve called him vociferously in the address. Bunch of wimps, that’s what you Americans are. Grab your high powered guns for Afganistan yet keep your civility in the political discourse!
Your civility will permit this country to go to the brink. The left will continue to mis-inform, lie, distort and abuse the many weaknesses of the people. The left will have no regard for your civility. They will continue to get what they want.
I’m certainly not a birther because I don’t know for sure of the president’s birhplace, therefore I cannot state that he’s not born here. Yet this is what I can state confidently:
1. that we as Americans, have no standing whatsoever in courts or otherwise to know the basic facts of our political leaders (they’re conveniently sealed). Yep, the land of the free and the land of the brave nonsense.
2. that we as Americans have a president that pays money, lots of them, to defy in disrespect a legitimate desire of a large number of people to know for sure of his birth, education, and other documents that are conveniently sealed.
Danger, irreversible changes are coming to this country and you want us to remain civil. I bet in your daily conversations you have not guts to say the truth with conviction or even with measured anger, no, you must remain ‘nice’ people.
I want to tell you this. The Romanian dictatorial, communist regime was not brought down by people like you but by people like me who had the guts to call the dictator for what he was even before the revolution broke out. There are times for civility. Now, I ask you, with civility, to tell you neighbor that he is wrong and that if there is another revolution in this country, you will politely be on the other side. Tell your neighbor and friend that he is so wrong that because of his political view, this country is going down.
You obviously don’t know what it is to state your convictions to your friends. Oh, don’t talk politics, sex or religion. Junk American civility. Truth, freedom and urgency require you to stand up.
Let me tell you what you get when you speak your mind to your friends. They will do the same and a true conversation will ensue.
So, here we are: support the birthers. Let them get louder and louder until this shameless media will decide to call on the president to open his books.
And push your views vigorously or else one day we have to shed the blood again.
Civility nonsense.
Sep 13, 2009 - 6:01 am 54. Mike:Graham
Another person devoid of the facts or unwilling to accept them.
There is no proof that Obama is a U.S. citizen.
Absoluely none
Factcheck.org and Anneberg Foundation website, and we all know the connection between Annenberg and Obama, puts up a forged copy of a computer generated certificate of birth that could be ordered by mail by a person for their child by anyone who had lived in Hawaii within one year after the the date that they claimed that the baby was born. That is not proof of anything accept that Factcheck.org can post forged documents.
Two Hawaiin newspapers with notices of Obama’s birth at an address which it has been proven that his mother nor father ever lived.
That is the entire case for Obama being an American citizen.
Obama has spent well over $1 million in preventing eligibility cases from getting to the discovery phase. All of his key life’s documents remained sealed.
Sep 13, 2009 - 6:04 am 55. DaveP.:Moderates constantly tell Conservatives that they need to compromise their beliefs “just to win the election”.
Moderates have led the Republican Party to failure after failuer after massive failure.
Moderates sacrificed the Congress to the Democrats in ‘06, after a Coservative revolution gave it to Republicans.
Moderates and their hand-picked candidate McAmnesty gave the Presidency to Barack Obama, who intends to destroy what the United States stands for.
Now, when Conservatives are standing up at tea parties and online… Moderates want them to toe the useless, weak, cowardly Moderate line again.
What a pack of losers the Moderates are.
Mods, get this: YOU CAN’T WIN ELECTIONS WITHOUT US. So sit down and shut up… for once.
Sep 13, 2009 - 6:21 am 56. Noelie:I have heard this meme for years.. “avoid the urge to purge”.. yet here we are… I live in Utah with the Idiot Hatch who thinks the road to cool is paved with favors to democrats.
I’m sorry.. but I am beginning to think of that old saying ” Idiocy is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result”.
Oh..and.. uhhh. Warren.. we haven’t been purging honey.. purging hasn’t even been approached.. unless of course your are talking about all of the desperate that believed Obama’s original story..that he was the uniter. the hope and changer..he is the Changer all right. but not so much hope.
Sep 13, 2009 - 6:45 am 57. Noelie:“Anti-choice zealots” are not just opponent of abortion, but those who confuse pro-choice with pro-abortion. No one is pro-abortion.
If people are so pro-abortion, why are so many happening? Why are we having this discussion at all? This is one of the most idiotic meme’s going around. IT is BRAINLESS!!! They ARE pro Abortion! They are for abortion!!! IF no one was for it. . they would not Happen and we would not have this discussion!!!
Don’t like that message? Live with it.. nature engraved it on your forehead.
Sep 13, 2009 - 6:50 am 58. Peter Verkooijen:The “conservative base” should stop trying to purge the more liberal/libertarian elements from the Republican party.
The American electorate:
Socialists (=”liberals”): 30%
Real/classical liberals, libertarians, independents: 40%
Conservatives: 30%
As long as Obama can keep America divided between conservatives and “liberals”, he will be politically safe.
Sep 13, 2009 - 7:00 am 59. rrpjr:#13 Ruebacca: “We need to hammer the left for the misery it has created and is trying to exploit.”
That’s it. Let’s not complicate things. The Left is the single greatest threat not just to conservatism but to America. I grew up with these miserable cockroaches, and I’m telling you. They’re capacity for misery is bottomless. Figure it out.
#2 Dr. Gianrico. “No one is pro-abortion.” That’s a howler. Thanks for the comic relief.
Sep 13, 2009 - 7:04 am 60. ProudTexan:The corrupt politicians are what needs to be purged. The Republican leaders are really brave regarding throwing their own under the bus, not so much when it comes to standing up to the Democrats. You’ll notice the left doesn’t purge their lunatics, but the Republicans are so worried about what the left thinks, they’ll throw anyone under the bus. John McCain is really good at that.
Regarding the “paranoia” of Glenn Beck–the man has brought more truth to light than anyone of our illustrious leaders in office and have forced those cowards to stand up. Tell me what is his paranoia? Everything he suspects has proven to be true. Are we so cowered into submission by the politically correct marxists that we are afraid to voice what we think, or even agree with someone like Beck who is bringing truth to light? Is it paranoid to question at a time such as this?
Was Thomas Jefferson paranoid when he said “In questions of power, then let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution.”
When the President of the U.S. spends thousands of dollars in legal fees to keep information of his birth from the public, is it really so crazy to suspect he may not be a citizen? He could put the issue to rest very easily but refuses to do so. Now, quick, let me say I’m not a birther, lest I be thought a lunatic. Let’s just say, slowly, let me say I’m not a birther.
Here’s an idea, let’s purge everyone who thinks differently. Kool-Aid anyone?
Sep 13, 2009 - 7:09 am 61. Martin:What do you mean by “intellectua” dead weights? Liberals love to call each other intellectual, regardless of all evidence to the contrary.
Conservatives need to stop compromising with evil, with stupidity, and with “democrat-lite”. The rachet turns lefward, and we are tired of it.
Sep 13, 2009 - 7:21 am 62. Blackwater:By turning on each other we’re just playing right into the leftists hards. The Republican Party is a big party. We’re not all going to agree on everything. That doesn’t mean we should start condemning each other. You don’t like Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, McCain, Sean Hannity, fine, whatever. But don’t try and fit in by condemning them just to be accepted in their circle jerk left wing groups. I can understand the temptation when interviewed by a left wing journalist or if you live in a left wing area like I do. But stay true to what YOU believe regardless of what the left will say about you. I don’t support ObamaCare, I support secretly torturig terrorists, I believe people should be able to carry guns anywhere, I don’t like islam and I support the Iraq War. So sue me.
Sep 13, 2009 - 7:33 am 63. Story:It seems that both parties share a common trait: They want power with no constraints and would like the other party to rubber stamp whatever bill they propose…. which has led to a total disregard for the voters and the Constitution. The same faces and names always seem to be operating the levers of power no matter who won any election. Advisors, aides, lobbyists… the same names and faces over and over. And they randomly switch parties showing no allegiance to any ideology. Then there is the role of the Constitution (or lack there of) in current Federal government. When has any politician of either stripe stood up and said,”The billbeing proposed does not fall into any category of enumeration by the Constitution and therefore can not be considered at the Federal level. The Tenth Amendment requires that we can not cosider this legislation and it must be left up to the states or the people. Next.”? I submit it has probably never occurred, and Federal government has reached far, far beyond anything the Founders invisioned.
Sep 13, 2009 - 7:52 am 64. evergreen:Who the hell appointed these guys guardians of conservatism? I don’t give birtherism much credence, but I’m not about to vote anyone off the island for suspecting Obama is not telling the truth about his past. Hello? The President has a truth problem, and I put nothing past him nor those carrying water for him.
All this boycotting crap is the stuff of weenie liberals. They just draw attention to the people they’re trying to “punish.” Not productive at all.
Sep 13, 2009 - 8:24 am 65. Odysseus:Buckley showed up in the late fifties and shortly thereafter, the Republicans lost control of Congress. Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, et. al. show up in the late eighties and the Republicans regain control of Congress by the mid nineties. As much as I like Buckley, his elitism wounded Republicanism worse than it did the Birchers. It was revived by populism and that is how it must be sustained.
Sep 13, 2009 - 9:17 am 66. Vik Rubenfeld:You are absolutely right. I might take exception to one minor point:
> questioning the president’s country of origin is a waste of time.
Only if the objective is to get Obama thrown out of office immediately. If the objective is to keep him from being reelected, it is potentially very effective. Obama is clearly hiding something, and it may be serious enough to prevent his reelection.
The so-called birthers are only interested in upholding a Constitutional requirement for presidential candidates. There’s nothing particularly “fringy” about that.
Sep 13, 2009 - 10:06 am 67. Rashputin:Someone sent me a joke along the lines of, “why can’t people born via C-section be president, doesn’t natural born citizen discriminate against them?” Unfortunately, I’m afraid a lot of these self-appointed Republican nobles who proclaim their right to decide who is and isn’t reasonable and what “their” party should focus on, are not a lot brighter than the person in that joke.
Given recently posted documents, it’s pretty clear that democrat state chairmen were given CYA protection in return for putting Obama on the state ballot, no questions asked. The fact that such a deal exists or that someone saw a need for it says all you need to know about whether Obama was really born in this country. If he had been, there would have been no reason to provide state democrat election folks with CYA paperwork.
It’s funny how so many of those same people who think it’s major issue that someone dared violate decorum and yell “Liar” at the president don’t think violating the Constitution is much to worry about.
Regards
Sep 13, 2009 - 12:25 pm 68. kgj:Social Conservatives seeking to use government to legislate morality to the masses have been poisoning the well for too long by destroying the consistency of negative rights, thus opening the door to government co-option by demagogues with various agendas and malignant vested interests from all sides of the political spectrum. Their religiously inspired diatribes against full American freedoms continue to alienate people in droves, particularly because most Americans today are rightfully oversensitive regarding matters of conscience, religion, social institutions, and private behavior.
Until it extirpates this reactionary faction, the Conservative movement’s defense of free markets is hopelessly doomed to intellectual impotence. Economic self-reliance through free proud enterprise on the one hand, but moral paternalism in matters confined to the bedroom or uterus on the other hand, are ideologically irreconcilable positions both of which sound hypocritical when preached by the same voice.
Sep 13, 2009 - 3:16 pm 69. mph:Worst article ever published on PJM, I believe.
“However, one need not be a racist to question President Obama’s birth story.”
Birther madness on Pajamas? Please, no….please….
John Birchers part of a “healthy political ecosystem.”
This article is insane.
Mr. Simon, did you read this?
Sep 13, 2009 - 3:31 pm 70. misanthropicus:RE #69/mph: [...] Worst article ever published on PJM, I believe. [...] Birther madness on Pajamas? [...]”
mph, with your cogent answers at the following questions you can clear up this matter:
1) the AP photograph of Obama’s (Soetoro’s) enrollment page at the Franziskus School (Djakarta, Indonesia), showing young Barry as: a) religion = Muslim, b) citizenship = Indonesian; is that photo a forgery or not? Elaborate, can use your own words…
2) regarding the COLB posted on Daily Kos, then on Fight The Smears(?), and repeatedly referred to by Gibbs as true & confirming Obama’s legitimacy – now why the Hawaii HD when pressed about the existence & circulation of that COLB, admitted that such a document like that WAS NEVER SOLICITED (by Obama party) AND AS SUCH THE HAWAII HD NEVER ISSUED IT? What is that un-issued document that’s been offered for a while on Internet for proving Obama’s presidential genealogy? Elaborate, can use your own words…
3) Why the DNC has circulated TWO sets of nomination documents after Obama’s nomination, one:
a) for “internal use” (Pelosi, Dean, Reid, etc.) which states that Obama has fullfilled the citizenship requirements for presidential eligibility, and another one:
b) for filing purposes in the 57 states of the union, document skipping Obama’s eligibility problem altogether? Elaborate, can use your own words -
Best regards -
Sep 13, 2009 - 8:11 pm 71. Brendan Kelly:Misanthropicus, a devoted Reynolds Aluminum Foil purchaser -
The reason to purge the “birthers” is that even if they were right (which I can not believe) it wouldn’t matter. These people simply are not putting forward credible arguments, nor do they have realistic goals.
One of the first, (and often hardest) lessons one teaches young military officers is “Pick your battles wisely”. In the military, as in politics, both sides are dealing with limited resources. It simply does not do your side any good to expend massive amounts of resources if what you gain from “winning” the fight is worth less that what it cost you to get it. (See the Battles of The Somme, or Verdun, for examples of what happens if you don’t understand this concept.)
What the birthers don’t seem to understand is, if Obama is eligible or not simply does not matter. You aren’t dealing with a scenario where any of their charges, even if they were true, would matter one whit. Edith Wilson was de facto president of the United States from October 1919 to March of 1921. Nobody was prosecuted, nobody went to jail. Bill Clinton was clearly guilty of the charges for which he was impeached, but he wasn’t forced to resign either. Why to the Birthers expect things would be different this time? In the real world POWER does not bow before legal or moral technicalites. Have they ever heard of the Dred Scott decision? The 3/5 compromise? or President Jackson’s remark upon hearing that the Supreme Court had held against his plans to forceably remove the Cherokee tribe from their lands? (”Justice Marshal has made his decision, now let us see him enforce it.”)
Even if they are right, (which I doubt) it wouldn’t matter. Lets assume that somehow they found absolute proof that Obama was born in Kenya, AND they got a case into court, AND it made it to the Supreme Court, AND the Supreme Court wound up taking the case, AND that instead of finding that through some creative legal wordsmithing that Obama was still elgigible, AND they issue an order for Obama to step down AND it is somehow enforced and he does the Nixonian “fly off on the helocopter into the sunset” thing, AND this all somehow gets accomplished before the end of his first term (unlikely)…what have you won? You now have President Biden, Speaker Pelosi, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, and a growing movement to ammend the constitution to allow Obama (and Gov. Schwartzenegger) to be President, the same people are all running MSNBC and the New York Times, and CNN. On the down side you have the greatest wound to the country since the Watergate scandal. Nobody goes to jail. Nobody gets tried for conspiracy or treason; because no treason takes place here.
You do get great violence done to the fabric of our nation, as was done in Watergate, at a time when we can little afford it. The birthers are the ultimate expression of the “logic” behind the phrase “It became necessary to destroy the village in order to save it.”
Sep 14, 2009 - 8:27 am 72. misanthropicus:Re #71/ Brendan Kelly: [...] You do get great violence done to the fabric of our nation, as was done in Watergate, at a time when we can little afford it. The birthers are the ultimate expression of the “logic” behind the phrase “It became necessary to destroy the village in order to save it.” [...]”
… and wrong you are, Brendan, and it’s you and people like you (I’ll take what you say at face value, and not as a “good troll” part from a “mean Obamatroll – nice Obamatroll” routine), who are causing harm to this nation.
And here-s why: you say: “These people simply are not putting forward credible arguments” – and bellow is my re-posting of my #70 (response/ un-answered challenge to your partner, #69/mph) –
Now you have the chance to clear mph & Obama by answering at these trivial, irrelevant questions – easy job for you:
1) the AP photograph of Obama’s (Soetoro’s) enrollment page at the Franziskus School (Djakarta, Indonesia), showing young Barry as: a) religion = Muslim, b) citizenship = Indonesian; is that photo a forgery or not? Elaborate, can use your own words…
2) regarding the COLB posted on Daily Kos, then on Fight The Smears(?), and repeatedly referred to by Gibbs as true & confirming Obama’s legitimacy – now why the Hawaii HD when pressed about the existence & circulation of that COLB, admitted that such a document like that WAS NEVER SOLICITED (by Obama party) AND AS SUCH THE HAWAII HD NEVER ISSUED IT? What is that un-issued document that’s been offered for a while on Internet for proving Obama’s presidential genealogy? Elaborate, can use your own words…
3) Why the DNC has circulated TWO sets of nomination documents after Obama’s nomination, one:
a) for “internal use” (Pelosi, Dean, Reid, etc.) which states that Obama has fullfilled the citizenship requirements for presidential eligibility, and another one:
b) for filing purposes in the 57 states of the union, document skipping Obama’s eligibility problem altogether? Elaborate, can use your own words -
Ok, Brendan – now, let’s got to the point opened by you stating that even if the birthers’ suspicions are confirmable, the damage done by such a scandal’s unraveling would outweigh the benefits of proving Obama and the Democratic Party as fraudulent -
Here I beg to differ grandly, and I’ll address just two consequences of this (very likely) wrongdoing –
1) while a fraud is fraud is a fraud is a fraud, it is also true that there is a proportion in the penalties applied to the criminal – a ten dollars matter is one thing, a thousand dollars is another thing, then Bernie Madoff is a completely different thing. Remember, the guy who cheats at the counter doesn’t get a life term – and here, the potential of Obama’s likely misdeed is of such a dimension, and has so many consequences in things political and military, has placed so many lives and national affairs in jeopardy that it definitely needs severe scrutiny –
2) … and here, a little criminal tinge to Obama’s lerger, grandiose scheme. It’s been talked a lot (and rightfully so) about the criminal elements of Obama’s Internet fund-rising scheme, but an element of this affair is still studiously avoided – i.e., the fact that since Obama never proved his eligibility in this campaign, he probably rised more than $600 million from the American citizenry under false pretense, BEING FULLY AWARE AT THE MOMENT OF SOLICITATION THAT HE WAS NOT ELIGIBLE FOR THE POSITION HE WAS RUNNING FOR.
Should be this aspect ignored, too?
Brendan, be a nice sport and answer the above questions, will you?
Looking forward for your demonstration -
Sep 14, 2009 - 2:22 pm 73. Mike:Yours, Alceste -
I was agreeing with you until you said: “healthy political ecosystem”
Sep 14, 2009 - 3:55 pm 74. misanthropicus:Pajamas is one place I hope to get away from such phrases.
As for GB, if David Brinkley said the same things as Glenn Beck he wouldn’t be seen as paranoid. Glenn is a matter of style sometimes but on substance he’s spot on concerning the role of Progressives Wilson/Teddy.
Update in RE Birthing: Graham was ahead in this matter – looks like liberals are more alarmed than I suspected (and Graham illustrated with Ruffini’s and Hanke’s efforts).
Normally, such a bastion of political integrity and dignity like LA Times stays away from petty, ignoble matters like Obama’s (il)legitimacy – but today’s issue has a pretty long and amusingly prudent piece about this affair “Some Fear GOP Is Being Carried To The Extreme” by one Peter Wallesten, in which they show their concern for the conservatives and republicans who might get carried away by Farrah’s seduction (my! My!) in the treacherous swamps of Obama’s illegitimacy debate.
Spooked they were, liberals, by the yesterday march in Washington, and maybe there is something more uglier brewing here, since it’s quite unusual for LA Times to acknowledge that liberals, Obama and the whole progressive crew have problems – enthusistically looking forward for more.
Sep 14, 2009 - 4:07 pm 75. deguello:BC(BEYOND CRETINISM ) wrote:” No matter how many people believe in something stupid,it’s still stupid.You believe in Obamanism; that makes you a cretin beyond cretinism:too stupid to recognize your own hypocrisy
Sep 14, 2009 - 6:15 pm 76. Kipling:Response to kgj @ 68: One of the fundamental purposes of government is to legislate morality. Do we not have laws against murder, theft, exploitation, fraud, etc.? Are these not moral issues? Without government to restrain evil we would revert back to a state of nature where the big dominated the small and the law of the jungle prevailed. According to the Declaration of Independence, government is instituted among men to secure their rights. One way it does so is by restraining evil that would deprive people of their rights. So, unless you are a social and political libertine, don’t give me that crap about how government should not legislate morality.
My guess is that you probably have no problem with government legislating certain moral issues like murder, theft, etc. According to your last paragraph you do have a problem with government involvement on issues of homosexuality and abortion. You mention that these issues are confined to the bedroom and the uterus, but they are not. Homosexuality has spilled out of the bedroom and into society. It is taught as an acceptable practice in some public schools and it has attacked the traditional institution of marriage. Gay marriage would impact the church and church practices. Should social conservatives surrender these areas? Abortion has moved well beyond the individual uterus as well. What about tax payer funded abortions? Abortion on demand? The ability of a minor to have an abortion without the consent of the parent?
Homosexuality and abortion are no longer about individual choice but rather a societal choice. Social conservatives have a right to speak out on these issues as much as anyone.
Sep 14, 2009 - 9:47 pm