Pajamas Media

144 Comments

1. BPT (Australia):

I like it how the Left media rush to judgment. One mentally unsound man kills a killer – and it is world news. What happened to waiting after the court case? I thought the Left believed in context, and the complexities? Guess that’s a fiction too.

Jun 3, 2009 - 1:47 am 2. Terry Gain:

So who else do we have for examples of liberal, radical violence?

Tiller.

Jun 3, 2009 - 2:40 am 3. Bad Karma:

No, not really seeing any sort of pattern here, if the premise is to show one it may be useful to provide facts compiled over the past twenty or so years, maybe more. Beyond that you will also have to show crime rate statistics broken down by crime. If the end result here is to show that these things only happen when a democrat is in office and that somehow there are only nutjobs roaming around committing criminal acts, “coming out of the woodwork” as you say, then this by no means confirms any arguement. As far as inculding the recent shooting victims at the recruiting center, really not sure how that fits into the left/right view, as it is not even close, but if included, must also include all the cells and actions committed by those with this agenda during the Bush administration. The fact that this doctor was killed, plain and simply wrong, regardless of which side of the fence you are on. What will be played by the left is the notion that anyone with any morals, integrity, honor, affiliated with G-d, church or sees something wrong with what the doctor was doing is an extremist (DHS memo) and some sort of backwards hillbilly. But that is the lefist playbook, able to throw out statements as this, yet if it even looks as though the same may come back to them, they begin the crying game shouting extremism and racism. If this doctor had been just some run of the mill individual, not a bit of notice would be paid, he was high profile and that’s the only reason it’s been brought up to this level. If this were not true, then why not have the same amount of coverage on every individual that is murdered in the U.S.?

Jun 3, 2009 - 2:42 am 4. jvon:

What is it that brings them out of the woodwork? They are NUTS, sir. That’s what.

This guy will rot in jail (or possibly a mental institution), where he belongs. I won’t bother condemning what he did; it should go without saying that murder is wrong, and murdering someone in a church is absolutely barbaric.

Your assertion that only right wing people commit acts of ideologically driven violence is questionable. We see the reason why right here in your piece. Some nutjob goes off his meds and shoots an abortionist, and it’s political. Somebody else who is violently against the US military shoots a couple recruiters and, well, he’s not really a leftist anyway. Doesn’t fit the narrative. You answered your own question.

Jun 3, 2009 - 2:56 am 5. HonestJon:

You yankee puss-puss! I’ll bet you’ve never even had any good moonshine! There ain’t nothing wrong with living in the hills of appalachia either. I’d rather live here (KY) than in the hell you call New York!

That having been said, we do tend to have more guns and more conservative values around these parts. Add that to the fact that we’re more often than not willing to fight for those values than the limp-wristed lefties and you have a formula for some good, old fashioned mayhem. Myself, I would have preferred for Mr. Roeder to have just beaten the ever loving dogsnot out of Tiller than to have killed him.

All things considered, the far left is every bit as bad as the far right. Both ideologies are extreme and both breed extremists. If you add in a good dose of religion, or conversely, atheism, conflict is sure to follow. My money is on the righties and the religious, though.

regards

Jun 3, 2009 - 3:02 am 6. Tom Perkins:

What they’re completely failing to do is summoning up whatever monstrous nature is required in the rotting core of a blackened soul to walk up to somebody they don’t agree with and repeatedly fire a high-power weapon into their body.

Yeah, every Coninental soldier putting a musket ball into a redcoat had a blackened, rotting core of a soul :rolleyes:. Democracy does not make murder OK. Unless you are trying to tell us that none of this man’s abortions were not also murders, and magically somehow none more of his were going to be; unless you are trying to tell us democracy’s results necessarily always are just and to be respected–that after we vote we just follow orders–then you aren’t showing you have any appreciation of what Tiller and his abortion provider were really about.

For the record, I think abortions in the first trimester can not be homicides, and abortions in the third trimester always are. It is a certainty that many of Tiller’s late term abortions were not merely homicides but also murders.

If his killer can get evidence to that effect into court, he may well get off Scot free, and a good thing too.

Yours, TDP, ml, msl, & pfpp

Jun 3, 2009 - 3:13 am 7. Tom Perkins:

reposting for spelling/formatting fixes.

“What they’re completely failing to do is summoning up whatever monstrous nature is required in the rotting core of a blackened soul to walk up to somebody they don’t agree with and repeatedly fire a high-power weapon into their body.”

Yeah, every Continental soldier putting a musket ball into a redcoat had a blackened, rotting core of a soul :rolleyes:. Democracy does not make murder OK. Unless you are trying to tell us that none of this man’s abortions were not also murders, and magically somehow none more of his were going to be; unless you are trying to tell us democracy’s results necessarily always are just and to be respected–that after we vote we just follow orders–then you aren’t showing you have any appreciation of what Tiller and his abortion provider were really about.

For the record, I think abortions in the first trimester can not be homicides, and abortions in the third trimester always are. It is a certainty that many of Tiller’s late term abortions were not merely homicides but also murders.

If his killer can get evidence to that effect into court, he may well get off Scot free, and a good thing too.

Yours, TDP, ml, msl, & pfpp

Jun 3, 2009 - 3:26 am 8. Brian Richard Allen:

So deranged folk of the Randal Terry and Scott Roeder and, say, Timothy McVeigh stripe; based on no other ‘evidence’ than that some whack job or other says so; are all “right-wingers” — and are therefore the responsibility of every American lover and/or defender of the Principle of Individual Liberty which upon which our beloved fraternal republic’s foundation stone was laid and upon which our nation stands? And which number includes most of those of us who are conservative — and even a few Republicans?

Fair enough if you say so.

And Carlos Bledsoe is pretty much a gang-banger and is hardly a paragon of left-wing radical ideology.

OK, again, if you say so.

But please explain why there is no discernible difference between a gang-banger of the Carlos Bledsoe ilk and the likes of any member of the recidivist, treasonous, lying, looting, thieving, mass-murdering, co-serial-rapist Cli’ton Crime Family? Which is only one example — and/or between a Carlos Bledsoe and a Timothy McVeigh and a Randal Terry and, say, a self-and-own-culture loathing clinical Narcissist of the coked-up, mobbed-up, modified-Marxist Mussolini-modeled, marijuana-mumbling, murtadd-Muslim, empty galabia, B Hussein O’Zero, variety?

Gang-bangers is, after all, as gang-bangers does!

Brian Richard Allen
Los Angeles – Califobambicated 90028
And the Far Abroad

Jun 3, 2009 - 3:29 am 9. Jeff:

Irony abounds in the comments section…

Jun 3, 2009 - 4:59 am 10. Juke:

“What is it that brings these dealers in mayhem out of the woodwork?”

In this case, another dealer of mayhem. You forget those thousands of dead babies of Tillers.

Jun 3, 2009 - 5:33 am 11. submandave:

It’s a familiar story.

Yes it is.

Sometimes it stars the members of isolated militias, holed up in the Appalachians and hopped up on a combination of home brewed moonshine and delinquent tax bills.

Like those evil folks at Ruby Ridge, shot and killed for sawing off a shotgun barrel at the request of an undersover agent thought to be a friend?

In other performances we find gun-toting good ole boys heading for the borders to do the job that the lily-livered, sissy Democrats refuse to handle.

Like those Minutemen, who, despite tortured hand wringing and cries of civil rights and intense scrutiny, have not had any members actually charges with anything illegal?

And when it’s not them it’s the members of Operation Rescue and their ilk, out to provide a “pro-life” world for the rest of us, even if they have to do it through the pronghorn sights of a deer rifle.

Like the killing of Dr. Slepian eleven years ago in 1998, the most recent anti-abortion muder before Dr. Tiller?

It’s a familiar story.

Yes it is. A lone nut case commits a crime and the left mobilize to act as if that one person’s random act is indicative of all who may share any of that person’s sentiments.

But poder this. If I can read about a murder or rape committed by a black gang member without automatically concluding that all black people are raping, murdering gangsters, why can’t you do the same with those who hold different politcal opinions than you?

Jun 3, 2009 - 5:38 am 12. "progressive"watch:

How many murders are there in the U.S. each year? The Tiller murder is a significant act of violence,but no more significant than the murder of the army recruiter in Little Rock. In fact,the Little Rock murder may prove the more significant.

The Obama attacks and violence have started. They will become worse and more numerous. The societal derangement and chas has begun. Obama will solve it by grasping more power and control into his hands.

Jun 3, 2009 - 6:15 am 13. Marge:

So kill a killer. Why do we have courts and justice. If every body in this country ran around and killed people who did things they didn’t like we would have mayhem, more so than now.

And this guy killed a man in a church how low, and common is that. I think it is time that some people in this country stop trying to make people adhere to their views and live THEIR life without sin. I for one don’t like abortion, but I think it is a woman’s right to choose. If the man is so upset let him cut it off and then he won’t get another woman pregnant. That would be a good sentence and maybe it would stop these radicals from trying to tell people what to do.

Jun 3, 2009 - 6:27 am 14. HonestJon:

12. “progressive”watch: The murder rate runs somewhere between 10,000 and 12,000 per year in the US (as I remember (I could be wrong)). Personally, I don’t care that that evil man (Tiller) is dead. What he was doing was abominable, if legal. I just don’t get how it can be justified that a viable baby-that’s right a baby-can be terminated so callously.

13. Marge: How about this: If a woman has an abortion (that is not absolutely medically necessary for the health of the mother or unless the baby has birth defects/Down Syndrome, etc) she should be permanently, irreversibly sterilized. It solves both issues. She’ll never get pregnant again and she’ll never have another abortion. Damn I’m so smart! {pats self on back} Problem solved!

reagrds

Jun 3, 2009 - 6:59 am 15. David S:

The pattern is pretty clear. Religious fanatics, whether Taliban or Born-again, appear to be losing the long-term cultural battle. Rather than try to adapt to a changing world, the response of the religious fanatic is to lash out in violence against the “other”.

Women’s rights, freedom of speech and thought, and other “liberal” values are simply not compatible with the backwards thinking of right wing zealots.

Peace.

DS

Jun 3, 2009 - 7:08 am 16. Free Hat:

The most bizarre thing about this is it’s as if the conservative movement is asking for Obama to clampdown.

Is this some kind of psychotic self-fulfilling prophecy play that you’re enacting?

Act 1: Wherein the reactionary conservatives whine moronically about Obama taking their guns away, about Obama forcing women to have abortions, and about Obama specifically targeting conservatives as national security threats.

Act 2: Wherein conservatives go on a domestic terrorism spree, killing cops, immigrants, a Democratic party leader, an abortion doctor and churchgoers. The stats of kids killing themselves with unsecured firearms skyrockets as conservatives buy tons of guns and ammo but apparently don’t have a buck to spare to take a proper training/safety course.

Act 3: Wherein President Obama is forced by the unraveling order caused by conservative violence to clampdown on their retarded bull****. Gun laws get tighter, abortion clinics get armed guards, the killing of abortion docs gets harsher penalties, and all ideologically/politically motivated murderers are now reclassified as domestic terrorists.

As the curtains close, the reactionary conservatives whine moronically about how they were right the whole time! about Obama taking away their “freedoms”. They look to the rest of America to rally to their cause and defend them, but, by this time, mainstream America has become so horrified by the ongoing violence of anti-society, anti-education, anti-establishment nutcases that the mainstream conservative movement has become that America essentially reacts by saying “I don’t care what you have to do, just do what it takes to make these terrorists stop ruining the country by acting out their backwards, violent Taliban ideology”.

Jun 3, 2009 - 7:22 am 17. sheesh:

What brings these people out of the woodwork?

Cheryl Sullenger, senior policy adviser for Operation Rescue out of Wichita, said Tuesday that she has spoken to Roeder in the past, but she said he would initiate the contact. She said she hasn’t had any recent contact with him.

Sullenger served about two years in prison after pleading guilty to conspiring to bomb an abortion clinic in California in 1988. She has since renounced violent action.

Sullenger would advise Roeder as to Tiller’s court proceedings, times, dates, etc.

Jun 3, 2009 - 7:49 am 18. Ms. Attitude:

Here’s how Tiller helped women:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMC_70oYV8U

Jun 3, 2009 - 7:51 am 19. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Jazz Shaw
RE: Getting a ‘Clue’

What is it that brings these dealers in mayhem out of the woodwork? — Jazz Shaw

And before you scoff….

….ever hear of some character named Satan?

Most people don’t care to think on the idea, but then again, they’re the ones who’ve been lulled into a deep sleep of complacency.

Seriously. Look at the self-proclaimed evidence.

Remember the character who walked into a McDonald’s in southern California, shouted, “I’ve killed hundreds and I’ll kill hundreds more!” And then killed 21 people with a shotgun?

How is it he’s “killed hundreds”? Not by any record by the police. And how is it he’d kill “hundreds more”? As he killed himself after he’d killed only 21.

There’s something very ‘odd’ there. And where some people would like to write it off as ‘he is insane’, well….he certainly is that. But maybe there’s something more involved. Something that the secular world doesn’t care to admit to.

It’s a thought that scares the living daylights out of atheists. And puts a degree of ‘I don’t want to go there’ in secular-oriented people.

But for those of us who know better, it’s a reasonable explanation.

So….

….why did Scott Roeder kill Tiller?

I’ve got an idea. And most people aren’t going to like it.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....and a lot of people aren't going to accept it.....]

Jun 3, 2009 - 7:59 am 20. Ms. Attitude:

David S: Women’s rights, freedom of speech and thought, and other “liberal” values are simply not compatible with the backwards thinking of right wing zealots.

freedom of speech is liberal? hahahahahahaha hahahahahaha hahahahahaha

Jun 3, 2009 - 8:01 am 21. Free Hat:

17. sheesh: “Sullenger would advise Roeder as to Tiller’s court proceedings, times, dates, etc.”

You know that Roeder had Sullenger’s phone number on his dashboard when he was arrested, right?

I think it’s time to review some phone records.

Jun 3, 2009 - 8:02 am 22. Ms. Attitude:

16. Free Hat: Act 2: Wherein conservatives go on a domestic terrorism spree, killing cops, immigrants, a Democratic party leader, an abortion doctor and churchgoers. The stats of kids killing themselves with unsecured firearms skyrockets as conservatives buy tons of guns and ammo but apparently don’t have a buck to spare to take a proper training/safety course.

Your ignorance is showing! Most cops are conservative and most cop killers are Obama lovers. an abortion doctor/churchgoer, make up your mind, are the religious people the good guys or the bad guys? If you are going to point fingers please be consistent. Where are your stats for the the kids killing themselves? NRA promotes gun safety. The unsecure guns belong to the liberal city dwellers. You need to check yourself!

Jun 3, 2009 - 8:06 am 23. sheesh:

19 Chuck Pelto . . . I believe you mean O’Satan.

Jun 3, 2009 - 8:07 am 24. Pat J:

This article, if you pardon the expression, is bang on target. What’s not discussed is the media’s role on some of these “impressionable” minds. If you say “Tiller, the bay Killer” enought times, someone not in his right (if you pardon this expression) mind is going to try and do something evil. Worse. He’ll feel completely justified even saying “God was on his/her side.”

Jun 3, 2009 - 8:09 am 25. Free Hat:

23. sheesh: “19 Chuck Pelto . . . I believe you mean O’Satan.”

No, I think he meant O’Felafel.

Jun 3, 2009 - 8:11 am 26. sheesh:

22. Ms. Attitude . . . you can have it it one way or the other way, not both ways.

Free Hat said, “kids killing themselves with unsecured firearms skyrockets as conservatives buy tons of guns”

You said, “Where are your stats for the the kids killing themselves? ”

You said, “most cop killers are Obama lovers”

I say, “Where are your stats for the cop killers loving Obama?”

Yeah . . . oops.

Jun 3, 2009 - 8:11 am 27. Chuck Pelto:

TO: sheesh
RE: Heh

19 Chuck Pelto . . . I believe you mean O’Satan. — sheesh

YOU….

….are sadly mistaken.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The greatest trick Satan ever performed was to convince people he doesn't exist.]

P.S. Thanks for providing such a good ‘foil’ for discussion….

Jun 3, 2009 - 8:14 am 28. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: David S Defines ‘Fanatics’

The pattern is pretty clear. Religious fanatics, whether Taliban or Born-again…. — David S

Got this?

Anyone who is a christian is a threat to ‘national security’.

And believe me, with the new ‘rules’ for identifying ‘mental illness’ in the recently updated DSM-V, i.e., “pathological bias”, guess who’s going to the ‘mental institutions’ in the not too distant future. Certainly as THIS ‘administration’ gets to make the decisions.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Welcome to the 'party', pal. -- Bruce Willis in Die Hard]

Jun 3, 2009 - 8:17 am 29. sheesh:

27 Chuck Pelto . . . [The greatest trick Satan ever performed was to convince people he doesn't exist.]

Kaiser Soze . . . Usual Suspects . . . plagiarism is the devil’s playground . . . you should attribute your quotes . . . for the sake of your eternal soul.

Jun 3, 2009 - 8:26 am 30. Free Hat:

Ms. Attitude: “Your ignorance is showing! Most cops are conservative and most cop killers are Obama lovers. an abortion doctor/churchgoer, make up your mind, are the religious people the good guys or the bad guys? If you are going to point fingers please be consistent. Where are your stats for the the kids killing themselves? NRA promotes gun safety. The unsecure guns belong to the liberal city dwellers. You need to check yourself!”

Ms. Attitude, I wasn’t speaking hypothetically there. All of those murders actually happened.

A conservative nutjob actually killed cops because he thought Obama was going to take his guns:
http://www.newser.com/story/55325/pittsburgh-cop-killer-feared-obama-gun-ban.html

Churchgoers in Tenessee were actually murdered recently by a right-wing nut: http://beltwayblips.dailyradar.com/story/jim_d_adkisson_charged_in_tennessee_church_shooting/

A Democratic Party leader was also murdered by a right wing nut:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/08/13/arkansas.shooting/index.html

If, for once, you bothered to read beyond what was spoon fed to you by Limbaugh and Fox News, you’d probably be aware of these stories. And you might even be less ignorant. But that’s just speculation, of course.

Jun 3, 2009 - 8:27 am 31. Middleman:

I believe we might be hearing about Chuck in the news in the not too distant future, with the words ’standoff’ and ‘hostages’ included. Onward ‘Christian’ soldier

Jun 3, 2009 - 8:38 am 32. Free Hat:

Middleman: “I believe we might be hearing about Chuck in the news in the not too distant future, with the words ’standoff’ and ‘hostages’ included. Onward ‘Christian’ soldier”

I would say the same about the majority of the people who post on this site.

Jun 3, 2009 - 8:42 am 33. Ms. Attitude:

30. Free Hat: If, for once, you bothered to read beyond what was spoon fed to you by Limbaugh and Fox News, you’d probably be aware of these stories. And you might even be less ignorant. But that’s just speculation, of course.

So, you, someone who has no clue about me, jumps to conclusions. Sorry dude, but my TV is on the Disney Channel 99% of the time. Hannah Montana doesn’t spoon feed me!

I also frequent Liberal websites and read the hate. I also have friends who call themselves liberals.

You like to take the acts of three mentally ill people and claim “all” right wingers are like them. You need to meet more people.

Another thing, how’s that Che, Chavez, and Castro worship working out for the left? Now those guys have put “down” some numbers.

Jun 3, 2009 - 9:03 am 34. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: If….

I believe we might be hearing about Chuck in the news in the not too distant future, with the words ’standoff’ and ‘hostages’ included. Onward ‘Christian’ soldier — Muddleman

….we do….

….can we point to Muddleman as the primary reason? Like they’re pointing to O’Reilly?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. Thanks….

…to you and Free Hat….

….for pointing out why Christians are going to be ‘targeted’.

This, despite the fact, that REAL christians are not particularly ‘dangerous’ in the first place…..except in the minds and psyches of atheists…..

Jun 3, 2009 - 9:08 am 35. Frank:

I’m not one to defend murder, but say if George Tiller were alive today…. He would go on to murder one or more innocent human beings. Last I checked killing someone in the defense of innocent life isn’t murder.

I’m just sayin.

Jun 3, 2009 - 9:16 am 36. john samford:

This is a POV issue. To you they are wild-eyed fanatics, to them you are the wild-eyed fanatic.
Tiller was one of history’s greatest serial killers. Tiller the Killer murdered about 60,000 defenseless babies. While Hitler, Stalin, Kim Il, Plo Pot, et. al. murdered more, they did it by giving order. Tiller the Killer did it one at a time, using hand tools. Regardless of the legality, that is a monstrous crime. He was brought to justice by Scott Roeder AFTER the Law failed.
The basic issue here is that some people (Socialist, the left, progressives, what ever) think that ONLY the state has the power of life and death. Other, more realistic people, know that any human holds that power so long as they are willing to take action and accept the responsibility for their actions. Google John Brown.
I consider Scott Roeder a hero. He put his life on the line to protect the thousands of unborn children Tiller hadn’t gotten around to murdering yet. I rank him 3rd behind Booth, who shot a Tyrant in the head and saved America and Mr. Brown who died to free million of humans from slavery.
You don’t understand any of this because you cannot fathom giving your life for a greater cause. You fear death too much. I can’t understand that, since we all die in the end. Nobody gets out of life alive. So why not make your death worth while? If your death isn’t worth anything, what does that say about your life?

If you argue that Tillers Killing thousands of babies was NOT a crime, I would direct you attention to the Nuremberg trials. NOTHING the NAZI’s did was Illegal, or not done on a smaller scale by the Allies. Nuremberg established that certain crimes are so horrendous that by their very immorality they transcend the Rule of Law.

Scott Roeder broke the Law to answer to a higher Law. He is being punished here on Earth because the government has more armed men to enforce it’s Laws.
That won’t always be so.

Jun 3, 2009 - 9:18 am 37. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Frank
RE: THAT….

Last I checked killing someone in the defense of innocent life isn’t murder.

I’m just sayin. — Frank

…is an interesting ‘defense’. And, based on my understanding of the use of deadly force, as taught by the US Army for Military Assistance to Civil Authorities (MACA) operations, i.e., riot control, it is what is known as a ‘positive defense’ in a court of law.

It will be interesting to see if the perp attempts such a defense of his actions.

What will be even MORE interesting will be the conflict between the laws relating to ‘abortion’ and ‘murder of an unborn ‘fetus” in the courts that might result from such a ‘defense’.

Thanks…..

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Justice always prevails...three times out of seven. -- Alley's Axiom]

Jun 3, 2009 - 9:23 am 38. Nate:

Mr Jazz Shaw,
The prolife movement’s ambivalent response to Dr. Tiller’s death comes from the fact that he was brutally killing unborn children and doubtless causing them excruciating pain in the process. If you think Dr. Tiller is providing a laudable service like “Underground Railroad Operator”, then it stands to reason that you would be rightfully indignant and terrified by his death. Our different attitudes about his death stem from our different philosophies, so that your Leftist friends will not bat an eyelash against the millions killed in death camps by Communists, (doubtlessly backward conservatives) but rightfully mourn the thousands killed by Pinochet (noble liberal martyrs). I think about those millions of families without fathers, mothers, sisters and brothers, and add to them the aborted dead, and wonder what might have been. As for Tiller, may God have mercy on his soul. Requiem in pacem

Jun 3, 2009 - 9:25 am 39. Bilgeman:

Mr. Shaw:
“What is it that brings these dealers in mayhem out of the woodwork?”

In this context, their principles.

“It’s also true that he’s better known as Carlos Bledsoe and is pretty much a gang banger — hardly a paragon of left-wing radical ideology.”

This sentence displays an ignorance of gang psychology so profound that it truly beggars belief.
Gang-bangers are the paramount example of radical left-wing ideology in that they are ALL ABOUT “Identity Politics”…that’s why 14-year-olds shoot other 14-year-olds for wearing the wrong color handkerchief, you fool!

“Sure, it’s nice to still have Bill Ayers to kick around, but let’s face the facts. A beginner course in probability and statistics informs me that something between one third and one half of the people reading this column were either not yet born or still in diapers the last time ole’ Wild Bill blew anyone up.”

And this means exactly what? Mr. Ayers is not only still a free man, but is a tenured professor drawing a paycheck from a government that should clap him in irons and confine him to a handy prison.

“The hard Left seems to trade in a whole different brand of crazy these days.”

Oh. I’ll agree with you there…the Left would prefer to use the Federal government to perform it’s function of terrorizing American citizens.
They prefer to not get their hands dirty from wielding a tire-iron to advance their agenda.
(Ever been part of a union organizing campaign, Mr. Shaw?).

“Anyone else noticing a pattern here? It seems to flare up whenever there is a Democrat in the White House.”

Yes. Now for extra credit, would you like to take a crack at WHY this happens,(without the biased invective against the people taking up arms, please)?

Can you manage that?

In case you can’t,(and I don’t think you can, since you’ve managed to remain so abysmally ignorant about gang culture despite decades of evidence being right in front of your face), here it is…you offered:

“I’ve stared into those wild, burning bush eyes in person and I’m here to tell you that the machine behind them has more than a few cogs spinning in the wrong direction.”

These people are telling you, have been telling you, and will continue to tell you that what the government is doing is irreconcilably opposed to their deeply-held principles..and yet when the government goes ahead and does it anyway, everyone is shocked….shocked, that there is a price to be paid in blood for these actions.

You’re amazing, sir, people stare you in the face and tell you exactly what it is that is spinning their wheels, and yet you refuse to hear and fail to see. Either that or you dismiss the consequences of where it leads with a facility that is astonishing.

The bloodshed is the price to be paid for getting your way via the government.
There are enough Americans who do not respond well to tyranny to make this fact inescapable.

Jun 3, 2009 - 9:27 am 40. Dred Scott:

Read Kinsley’s piece about Paul Hill in TIME back in the Nineties…

Jun 3, 2009 - 9:30 am 41. Self-hating Boomer:

Was there supposed to be a point to this article?

Jun 3, 2009 - 9:41 am 42. Suzi:

People die everyday at the hands of others who are ‘off’ in one way or another. An unstable ‘pro-lifer’ killing an avowed ‘baby killer’ (what else is inside a women one day before her due date?), is bigger news than an American recruited in prison, let out, and killing his own in the name of Islam/Allah/Jihad/Whatever is glossed over? Is this the pattern you are talking about? If so, yeah, seen that movie before. Everyday in this country more violence, LEGAL violence, is committed against our most vulnerable, weakest citizens, than the whole of those who died on 9/11. We still mourn those lost at the hands of ‘outsiders’ who hate us, want us dead. Yet, a man like Tiller, who was actually looked up to by so many, dealt in death on a daily basis and no one bats and eye (except those who believe the Constitution, that ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL). Even the leader of NOW stated, staight up, that ‘life begins at conception’…so she is all for killing that life if it’s ‘inconvenient’, or a ‘danger’ to the more important woman carrying it. Well, as my daughter so flippantly (and totally taken out of context) put it. Let’s turn their rhetoric on them. Tiller was a danger to the lives of MANY women (and men, albeit, very young), Tiller was a hinderence to the well-being/career/lives of many women (not just those he killed for profit, but the women who will suffer PTSS and other ills, including higher risk for breast cancer). I could go on all day using the Pro-Abort logic of why it’s okay and LEGAL to kill an unwanted person. And that’s the kicker…it’s all about the ‘wantedness’ of the human in question. We’ve all read the stories of people being charged with two counts of manslaughter if a pregnant woman dies…anyway…Maybe this man, in his fevered, half crazed mind was just performing a very ‘late term’ abortion. Seriously, if our President stated that it was okay to allow children of ‘late term’ abortions to just die, what is the difference? Mom and doctor wanted, expected a ‘dead baby’ from the experience, right? They say there is a fine line between genius and insanity. Maybe this shooter took the above kind of ‘logic’ and it pushed him over the edge. Maybe he felt his life forfeited was worth the lives saved by one less ‘baby killer’ on the scene?

Bottom line. The shooter of Tiller was a killer, just like the ‘good’ (meaning sucessful at his chosen profession) doctor, of course on a much smaller scale. After all, this man, who was catagorically mentally deranged, only killed ONE MAN. Doesn’t anyone see the imbalance? The world has gone crazy, and this guy will be made into an example from the left, used as a poster boy to paint ALL pro-life people with the same “radical” brush. Tiller will become their humanist brand of ‘martyr’, and it will be a talking point for way too long.
At the same time, news programs will be too occupied with this story to focus on the dangers of these real terrorist cells on our domestic soil, within our prisons recruiting to their ’cause’.
Instead of keeping an eye on the dog in the yard, shouldn’t we be more concerned with the man bearing down on us with the gun behind the curtined window?
Talk about slight of hand.

Jun 3, 2009 - 10:00 am 43. arhooley:

Jazz, I don’t see a trend or a something in particular that brings these crazies out of the woodwork. They’re always around, always creating or awaiting opportunity. That’s ALL crazies, whether “theirs” or “ours” — and I’m not so sure ideology is the significant difference between a Roeder and an Ayers. They may have more in common with each other than they do with us rational people.

Jun 3, 2009 - 10:09 am 44. Free Hat:

33. Ms. Attitude: “You like to take the acts of three mentally ill people and claim “all” right wingers are like them. You need to meet more people.”

I never claimed that all right wing people are nutjobs. I know plenty of conservatives; most of the conservative people I know are decent, rational people who don’t allow themselves to get swept up in all this fundamentalist, reactionary right wing madness.

But then there are the Roeders and the people like you on this board, and you folks are an entirely different breed.

You are the non-rational people, who celebrate and justify the murder Roeder committed because of a reflexive, irrational, uncompromising view of birth control that you possess because of a backwards and ignorant perspective on God’s wishes that every baby be carried to term, regardless of the circumstances.

It would be one thing if you folks were only against partial birth abortion. I could understand that. But you aren’t. You are against all abortion, while at the same time you are against all birth control. How is that rational? How do you plan to effectively convince everyone that both abortion and birth control should be illegal when your only real argument is a religious one?

You can’t, and you know you can’t, because although telling people to believe something “because God says so” used to work 500 years ago when people couldn’t read and had no rights, it just doesn’t work anymore. And without a rational argument to stand on, you do what fundamentalist religious zealots always do: you resort to violence.

It’s totally bizarre that the right wing thinks it is upholding “sanctity of life” by protecting fetuses, even though they were the most gung-ho group to cheer the Iraq invasion and had absolutely no comment about the thousands of innocent Iraqis women and children who needlessly died.

Apparently only white, American souls are important to you folks.

Jun 3, 2009 - 10:11 am 45. Chip:

What about root causes? He was probably poor, alienated, and upset by American foreign policy.

Jun 3, 2009 - 10:12 am 46. Self-hating Boomer:

Suzi – there’s always a back story that’s more complicated than the cartoon in the MSM or even Wikipedia. Case in point: Buford O’Neal Furrow, Jr., the White supremacist who shot up a Jewish community center in LA and then killed a Fillipino mailman. That’s all that ever gets reported in most of the media, but from the Seattle Times, hardly a right-wing rag, we have this:

http://www.rickross.com/reference/furrow/furrow1.html

This hardly paints a picture of a political activist. He was a dangerous mental patient who never should have been released from the hospital.

But opportunists will jump on these things, and his actions will live on forever on the internet and in urban legend as those of a political zealot rather than as a literal mental case.

Jun 3, 2009 - 10:36 am 47. Free Hat:

36. john samford: “This is a POV issue. To you they are wild-eyed fanatics, to them you are the wild-eyed fanatic. Tiller was one of history’s greatest serial killers. Tiller the Killer murdered about 60,000 defenseless babies. “

Please explain where this 60,000 number comes from, because I’ve been doing the math on this and its nowhere close to 60,000 abortions performed.

Abortions = A
Years in Practice = P
If he did at least one a day for 35 years,
365(A)X 35(A) = 12,775

In order to do 60,000 abortions in 35 years, Tiller would have had to do roughly 7 abortions per day, 7 days a week, with no weekends or time off.

So I’m guessing this means that you scholars treat math with the same respect that you treat science?

Jun 3, 2009 - 10:52 am 48. G Alston:

#44 — It’s totally bizarre that the right wing thinks it is upholding “sanctity of life” by protecting fetuses…

It’s realpolitik.

Imagine that the reactionaries ban abortions. There will be 800k women heading to Panama or elsewhere to get inexpensive procedures or take a pill. Flights are cheap. The anti-abortion lobby cannot stop abortion. Even if they were to win, they lose. The only possible thing they could gain is making people mad. The far right lost this argument when cheap jet travel was introduced. They aren’t clever enough to figure it out.

Meanwhile, the right wing is all sorts of upset over the idea of socialised health care. How dare the government get involved between the doctor and his/her patient, and so on. Yet where it concerns abortion the far right is demanding that government be involved: stop that female from aborting in the US by force of law. The upshot is that the argument isn’t that the state gets involved, but rather, who’s pulling the strings. It’s about power. The morons on this site regurgitating the Operation Rescue line like so many trained parrots are merely useful idiots.

Realpolitik. Power struggle.

Ultimately the question becomes simpler: who do you think ought to be setting the rules? The secular state, or the church? The secular state will win, of course. It’s been winning since the enlightenment.

Jun 3, 2009 - 11:25 am 49. thepenitent:

The people blaming Bill O’Reilly for this are doing the same thing they criticise O’Reilly for. If someone took out Bill O’Reilly tomorrow would they take their share of responsibility for “the hateful rhetoric which directly led to killing”.

Jun 3, 2009 - 11:28 am 50. cccc:

Isn’t it amazing that the left is fixated on this murder while trying desparetly not to look at the terrorist attack on the Army recruiting station where one of our solider’s was killed. Guess it is easier to point and scream “terrorist” at anyone who objects to the wholesale slaughter of babies in the womb than it is to look real terror in the eye. Just wait once Islam rules the world the left will be the first victim along with their loved abortion right.

Jun 3, 2009 - 11:31 am 51. B Dubya:

Free Hat, I’m thinking this guy only did abortions 1 day a week. 7 abortions in a 16 hour day is probably conservative; I have an eye surgeon who can do 25 procedures in the same period. Perhaps the 3rd trimester partial birth abortion gave the good doctor a bit of a tussle, so perhaps his day’s tally was down if he had one or more of those to deal with.

The fact that he was able to kill even one viable fetus in a 3rd trimester abortion makes him an ever so much better baby killer than I, for I have never killed even one. Unlike the good doctor, however, I have had the term “baby killer” thrown at me by your delightful leftist forebears during my time of active military service. I guess it depends on the party affiliation, huh.

The truth is, the actual numbers of aborted human babies actually killed by this man and his staff would sicken even the most hardened criminal or idealogue. Privacy restrictions on the case and patient records means we’ll never know.

Jun 3, 2009 - 11:35 am 52. BettyBlue:

Hmmm, here’s a pair of killers who weren’t whack-a-doodle, Appalachian good ol’ boys, straight outa “Deliverance”; they probably didn’t drink moonshine (their religion forbids it) but they were “gun totin’:” http://www.danielpipes.org/493/the-snipers-crazy-or-jihadis

Jun 3, 2009 - 11:46 am 53. BettyBlue:

As for Scott Roeder himself, he doesn’t sound like he was much of a “good old boy” militia type guy: he sounds as if he was mentally unbalanced: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090601/ap_on_re_us/us_tiller_shooting

Jun 3, 2009 - 11:48 am 54. BettyBlue:

And here’s another killer, one a’ them thar good ol’ boys (’cept he actually wasn’t) http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/05/2.html

Jun 3, 2009 - 11:50 am 55. BettyBlue:

As for movies we’ve seen before, foot-shuffling and throat-clearing—we’ve gotten plenty of time to see that again and again, ever since 9/11; pay no attention to the jihadis who are shooting Americans, and attacking recruitment centers. Pay lots and lots of attention to those eeeeeeevil, slack-jawed, moon-shine guzzlin’ good old boys! They’re the real terrorists!

(Anyway, who wants to get sued by CAIR? It’s a religion of peace, and if you say anything negative about it, or any of its practitioners, we’ll kill you!)

And whatever else you do, pay no attention to the jihadi behind the curtain!

Jun 3, 2009 - 11:54 am 56. BettyBlue:

As for “Wild Bill Ayers”, he’s still very much around, and still preaching revolution, writing and teaching. Guy’s still an influence, as are all those Islamic prison chaplains, who, for some reason, have easy access to gang-bangers in prison, whom they convert to Islam.

Jun 3, 2009 - 11:56 am 57. Chuck Pelto:

TO: BettyBlue
RE: Are We….

Pay lots and lots of attention to those eeeeeeevil, slack-jawed, moon-shine guzzlin’ good old boys! They’re the real terrorists! — BettyBlue

….beginning to connect-the-dots?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. For additional information, re-read my previous comments in this thread. And notice the responses from our friends on the Left…..

Jun 3, 2009 - 12:16 pm 58. BettyBlue:

And yet more mayhem plotted by those evil Appalachians. . . uh, wait a minute; http://www.nypost.com/seven/05202009/news/Cromitie_et_al_Arrests_PR.pdf

Jun 3, 2009 - 12:20 pm 59. Ms. Attitude:

44. Free Hat:

I only read part of your response. YOU only read part of mine…You aren’t too bright. I never said I was against birth control. I even condone the morning after pill. As soon as the baby attaches and starts growing it is living before that it is cells.

For all you know I’m one of those conservatives that you know. But you come onto this website and give prejudice statmements and expect to be…what?

Have you seen a partial birth abortion? It aint pretty…the same baby could’ve been born and lived.

Have you experienced an abortion? I didn’t think so…

Jun 3, 2009 - 12:33 pm 60. Ms. Attitude:

44. Free Hat:

I finished reading it! Abortion kills more minority babies…so with your logic, the left wingnuts, like you, care more about white babies.

Jun 3, 2009 - 12:35 pm 61. Ms. Attitude:

26. sheesh:

You are about as worthless as a pile of sheesh…you don’t deserve my response.

Jun 3, 2009 - 12:37 pm 62. BettyBlue:

Sorry, Chuck, I’m in a rush today, didn’t get a chance to read all the comments. Have to agree with you about Satan’s influence. As for the Left, it’s the typical-typical/same ol’, same ol’, yadda-yadda.

Christians are going to be targeted precisely because they are not dangerous, unlike the religion that, for instance, plots to blow up bridges, attack day care centers and shoots military recruiters, and has a huge civil rights organization with a cutesy acronym name to sue anybody who dares criticizes it.

Jun 3, 2009 - 12:44 pm 63. Ms. Attitude:

And another thing, Mr Free Hat…it doesn’t take much time to shove a pair of scissors into someones neck, open and close them until you make a hole big enough for the suction hose. Since the brain is still small it doesn’t take long to suck the brains out…Only post op care is done by the nurse with the mother and with the psychiatrist for the mother when she finally loses it after it sinks in what she has done.

That’s how he was able to do so many!!!

Jun 3, 2009 - 12:46 pm 64. Ms. Attitude:

Here’s something the good Dr. Tiller did…really whacked up this kids life…and he cared for women????

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMC_70oYV8U

Jun 3, 2009 - 12:49 pm 65. G Alston:

#39 — This sentence displays an ignorance of gang psychology so profound that it truly beggars belief.
Gang-bangers are the paramount example of radical left-wing ideology in that they are ALL ABOUT “Identity Politics”…that’s why 14-year-olds shoot other 14-year-olds for wearing the wrong color handkerchief, you fool!

Indeed. The marxists were able to travel time and space as well (they own the continuum, apparently) and instill tribal behaviours worldwide since the beginnings of human time so that they could expoit these tendencies in the 21st century. Clever buggers. You can hear them now — their evil “bwa ha ha ha ha” clearly ringing loudly in the halls…

Jun 3, 2009 - 12:56 pm 66. Ms. Attitude:

Do you know what’s worth than being anti-abortion??? Being forced into having one. I have three children, my first when I was 19. I was in college and the father was not who my parents wanted in my life. Standing up for my unborn baby is something I will NEVER regret…he’s 23 and has given me nothing but JOY!! If I had listened to people like you, Mr. Free Hat, I would only have that guilt in my heart for the rest of my life. I had a friend years ago who had an abortion. I was against it but she felt her parents would kill her if she had a baby. Now 21 years later, every anniversary date of that abortion, she loses it!!! Her husband doesn’t know and neither does anyone else. Everytime she sees a kid that is the age of her aborted baby she can’t be around them. And since I knew all those years ago, I’m the one that gets to play therapist.

There’s your pretty picture of abortion…Maybe she’s your sister, maybe she’s your neighbor, maybe she’s your wife…the feelings of guilt from being a party to a murder of innocence isn’t something someone can forgive themselves for too easily and it’s not something they brag about!

Jun 3, 2009 - 12:59 pm 67. john samford:

Treehat;
That is the number of murders Tiller the Killer claimed to have performed;

http://www.dr-tiller.com/biography.htm

Listen to his own words bragging about it. Almost like having a tape of Josef Mengele discussing dissecting a Jew while they were still alive. The Jew, that is.

{snipped}
“Tiller told the Wichita Eagle that he performed his first abortions in 1974 at Wesley Medical Center”

That was 35 years ago for those that are mathematically challenged. So it breaks down to under 2,000 per year.
Around 40 a week. Don’t know how many a day, since I presume he went golfing, like most Doctors. I wonder if he had any golf tees made out of bone. Tiny little bones. Memgele would skin Jews (alive) and make lampshades and book bindings out of the skin.
It is within profile for a serial killer to keep trophies.
Maybe a little skull with a hole in it to hang from his rear view mirror?

Meanwhile, what is irrational about enjoying a mass murder getting what is coming to him? I regret the Law failing in it’s responsibility, but then I remember the Dred Scott decision and know eventually the black robed tyrants will get it right. Not in time to save millions of murdered children.

I have a question for a Liberal such as yourself. I have asked it before and never got an answer. Maybe you can help me out.
Why is it bad for the State to murder a convicted killer and good for the State to allow unborn babies, who cannot be guilty of anything yet, to be murdered?
Or are you under the miss-perception that the baby isn’t alive?
Wander down to the local Jr. College and ask any of the biology professors when life starts. They will tell you at the first cell division. It doesn’t make any difference if those cells are destined to be goldfish, chickens, Oak trees, Johnson grass or humans. Cats, dogs, pigs, horses, alfalfa, corn, wheat, pine trees, snails and frogs, ALL life starts off the same. A cell divides into two. Then 4. Then 8. That continues until you have the organism that the DNA is having built. Unless of course, that organism is a human and Tiller the Killer is around.
Tree hat, I won’t bother pointing out the obvious in regards to your cogitative abilities. Weak tangential insults won’t help develop your missing skills.
I am more then happy to debate the issue. WE could trade fact for fact, if you had any. Or we can trade insult for insult, which means that you will not run out of ammo anytime soon.
I think Abortion is a fancy name for murder. I think the State should NEVER have the power to murder it’s citizens. Other State’s citizens, fine, but not it’s own. I’m just as much against slipping the poison in some death row inmates vein as I am about sucking out the brain of an unborn human.
If I was king for a day, I would empty out death row and ship them all to an island a let them stalk each other. Abortionists and EVERYBODY involved with abortions would be the first shipped to that island.

Jun 3, 2009 - 1:13 pm 68. Chuck Pelto:

TO: BettyBlue
RE: Not ‘Dangerous’?

Christians are going to be targeted precisely because they are not dangerous…. — BettyBlue

But we ARE ‘dangerous’. It’s just not in the venue that most people think of as ‘dangerous’. Not the ‘physical’ venue. Rather it’s the ’spiritual’ venue where we become VERY dangerous.

What was it He said?

I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. — Some Wag, around 2000 years ago

This scares the ‘merde’ out of the atheists, as well as the pagans and wiccans.

And so they are determined that they MUST not hear any such report. And, like the HAL computer in 2001, the only way to avoid dealing with the ‘problem’ is to kill the source of the problem.

As the report goes….

Whereas Good can tolerate the existence of Evil. Evil cannot tolerate the existence of Good, as Good will continually be pointing out Evil’s problems. Therefore Evil must always try to destroy Good.

Hence your observation on the odd behavior of the so-called ‘major media’ vis-a-vis the murder of Long vs. the murder of Tiller. All the emphasis is on the murder of Tiller, the mass murderer. As opposed to Long, the defender of America. For all intents and purposes, they are just graduates of the Goebbels School of Journalism. The ‘truth’ has no meaning to them.

These people ARE ‘evil’, at heart. Hence their efforts to tell the rest of US to ‘Shut Up!’.

And when they can’t succeed at that, via ‘hate crime’ legislation, they’ll go for more physical techniques.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[A healthy sense of 'paranoia' keeps a soldier alive on the field of battle. -- CBPelto]

P.S. Some people may call me ‘paranoid’, but they, via the US Army, trained me to recognize ‘trouble coming’ when I see it.

Albeit I was trained to do so on the modern battlefield, I’ve learned that the techniques—Intelligence Preparation of the Battlefield (IPB)—can be effectively applied to a number of other venues, to include corporate, political and {for Heavens sakes!} biblical.

Jun 3, 2009 - 1:31 pm 69. TomC:

“So who else do we have for examples of liberal, radical violence?”

Must have missed that Twin Towers thing.

It was all over the news.

Jun 3, 2009 - 2:13 pm 70. Free Hat:

67. john samford: “I have a question for a Liberal such as yourself. I have asked it before and never got an answer. Maybe you can help me out. Why is it bad for the State to murder a convicted killer and good for the State to allow unborn babies, who cannot be guilty of anything yet, to be murdered?”

It’s not good. Executions do not even serve their intended purpose of deterence. Locking up someone for life w/out parole is a much more just punishment.

“Or are you under the miss-perception that the baby isn’t alive? Wander down to the local Jr. College and ask any of the biology professors when life starts. They will tell you at the first cell division. It doesn’t make any difference if those cells are destined to be goldfish, chickens, Oak trees, Johnson grass or humans. Cats, dogs, pigs, horses, alfalfa, corn, wheat, pine trees, snails and frogs, ALL life starts off the same. A cell divides into two. Then 4. Then 8. That continues until you have the organism that the DNA is having built.”

Golly, thanks for the biology lecture. Frankly, I’m suprised that you even believe in DNA, given that it’s mentioned nowhere in the Bible. I do understand that the fetus is alive, however, within the first couple of weeks it is no more “alive” than say a 2-week old snail or cat fetus. So if “being alive” automatically confers rights on a being, you must then believe that snail fetuses deserve an equal right to life as well? I assume then, that you are a vegetarian?

“Unless of course, that organism is a human and Tiller the Killer is around.”

Nice one, moron.

“If I was king for a day, I would empty out death row and ship them all to an island a let them stalk each other. Abortionists and EVERYBODY involved with abortions would be the first shipped to that island.”

Then let me just say how glad I am that you will never be king.

Jun 3, 2009 - 2:17 pm 71. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Free Hat
RE: Try NOT….

I’m suprised that you even believe in DNA, given that it’s mentioned nowhere in the Bible. — Free Hat

….to be a COMPLETE ‘jackass’, like David S and vivo and so many others.

They don’t mention nuclear reactors and Apache attack helicopters by name in that Old Book either….

…BUT they ARE in there.

Maybe you should do a bit more ‘reading’ before you get too deep in over your ‘head’….what there is of it.

I can recommend a Good Book.

Regards,

Chuck(le
[The Truth will out....and Free Hat isn't going to be very happy about it.....]

Jun 3, 2009 - 2:28 pm 72. Chuck Pelto:

P.S. Speaking of DNA….

….and thinking of a comment I just posted somewhere….

….would you think that the double-helix of DNA could be considered a ‘knit job’? Sort of like “the two shall become one flesh”?

Sooooo….

….maybe DNA IS in that Old Book after all.

The REAL ‘problem’ being that some dumb ‘jackasses’ refuse to recognize it.

Eh?

Jun 3, 2009 - 2:32 pm 73. jasons:

To the left, performing medical experiments on animals in the name of research to save human lives is an abomination, yet punching a hole in an inconvenient babys neck and sucking its brains out doesn’t even raise an eyebrow. How’s that for a value system.

Jun 3, 2009 - 2:38 pm 74. Free Hat:

69. TomC:““So who else do we have for examples of liberal, radical violence?”

Must have missed that Twin Towers thing.

It was all over the news.”

..And yet another right wing moron, who was probably in some trailer park 2,000 miles away from New York City, with absolutely no connection to anyone who was killed by tragedy, weighs in on how ‘liberals’ somehow caused the terror attack. What a joke. Hopefully someday we can pass a law to criminalize dumb hicks like you (i.e., those who have absolutely no connection to the city or the people who were the actual victims of those attacks) from exploiting 9/11 as a political arrow to hurl at people you disagree with.

I’d say that you ought to be ashamed, but clearly people like you, who would use a horrendous tragedy to spread their disgusting vitriol, have no shame.

Jun 3, 2009 - 2:38 pm 75. Ms. Attitude:

What, Mr. Tree Hat, not response to me? Is it because you know I’m right, that abortion is murder? It not only kills a baby but it destroys a woman.

Jun 3, 2009 - 2:52 pm 76. Chuck Pelto:

TO: jasons, et al.
RE: What….

To the left, performing medical experiments on animals in the name of research to save human lives is an abomination, yet punching a hole in an inconvenient babys neck and sucking its brains out doesn’t even raise an eyebrow. How’s that for a value system. — jasons

…was I saying about ‘rank hypocrisy’?

These cretins sacrifice their own children on the ‘alter’ of the science they despise.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Hypocrisy is a mental illness found most often in the 'liberal' political camp. -- CBPelto]

Jun 3, 2009 - 3:03 pm 77. Chuck Pelto:

P.S. WHY….

….am I so reminded of Molech?

Jun 3, 2009 - 3:04 pm 78. Roderick Reilly:

I’m sorry, did I miss something? Is there a viable, radical right-wing insurgency out there ready to explode, or is the reality that there are occasional deranged individuals who cloak themselves in their own mish-mash versions of what they think are radical right wing notions? I know that it’s the latter, so don’t get on the case of conservative commentators who are justifiably outraged by a DHS smear of everyone from legitimate pro-life activists to George Will.

Jun 3, 2009 - 3:11 pm 79. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Free Hat
RE: Soooooo…..

..And yet another right wing moron…. — Free Hat

….out of curiosity….

….when did you become a member of Mensa?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Wait a minute, Scottie. I just discovered Mensa.]

Jun 3, 2009 - 3:12 pm 80. seven:

Dr Carhart wants to take over the store with Tiller gone. Enjoy the 5 star place of abortion run by Carhart. It is disguised as something else.

http://www.jillstanek.com/archives/2009/06/partial_birth_a_2.html#comments

Jun 3, 2009 - 3:28 pm 81. G Alston:

#68 — This scares the ‘merde’ out of the atheists, as well as the pagans and wiccans.

You have the belief that a cosmic jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree… yeah, the atheists are quaking in their boots, all right. No doubt about it.

Jun 3, 2009 - 3:40 pm 82. myth buster:

How dare anyone suggest the Down Syndrome babies be killed! Let’s call such drivel what it is: targeted extermination of the disabled. Anyone who believes in such insanity is a despicable human being, hardly worthy of the name.

Jun 3, 2009 - 3:41 pm 83. Ms. Attitude:

74. Free Hat:

Since you have designated yourself the post police in regards to things that bother Americans such as the WTC may I have your permission to express myself since I did know people in the Pentagon on that horrific day?

Do you think that just because someone isn’t from NY that they weren’t affected? You have a very shallow mind. If the terrorist weren’t liberals, you know, you guys want change, you guys defend the Islamic terrorist what would you define them as? Wake up!!! They want world domination and you have your head up your butt so far that you can’t see it. Now we have a president that will aid them in their quest…good job, liberals.

Jun 3, 2009 - 3:59 pm 84. Ms. Attitude:

74. Free Hat:

I vote that all arrogant liberals who aid in the death of millions of Americans be held accountable. That would be you!

Jun 3, 2009 - 4:09 pm 85. bobbcat:

If one goes by what this guest who appeared on one of Bill O’Reilly’s episodes has to say, it is not hard to reconcile the apparent implausibility of the math as it relates to the 60K cases of elective abortion Tiller himself allegedly claimed to have handled. In short, his role in the procedures was rather brief, if what this girl relates was true. His patients were apparently, for the most part, in the hands of people other than Tiller over the course of having their procedures done. Warning: Her story is quite graphic and may be really disturbing to some.

Jun 3, 2009 - 4:16 pm 86. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: Heh

You have the belief that a cosmic jewish [entity]…. — G Alston

What was I saying earlier about the response of ‘atheists’ when presented with the idea that some people think differently from them?

And, despite every item of ‘proof’ I could offer, they’ll become more and more violent in their response.

Why?

Because it destroys their carefully fabricated facade of ‘logic’.

For evidence of this theorem, ask yourself, why do they become so ‘obstreperous’ over such comments?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[You know you're getting close to the target, because they start throwing more 'flak' at you.]

Jun 3, 2009 - 4:16 pm 87. Chuck Pelto:

TO: G Alston
RE: Please….

….explain away the correlation between versus Revelation 8:10-11 and the events at Chernobyl. Odd, isn’t it….

…that some guy from the First Century can so accurately describe a run-away nuclear reactor at a town whose name, translated from its native Ukrainian to English, is Wormwood. [Note: Please notice the use of the proper noun form in the biblical passage.]

I look forward to your ’silence’ and/or ‘obfuscation’.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Dates in prophecy are closer than they appear in your Bible.]

Jun 3, 2009 - 4:22 pm 88. Frank:

lol “Free Hat” what a hypocritical turd you are, you call yourself liberal and progressive but you advocate the curtailing of speech you disagree with. Whatever happened to “I disagree with what you say but I’ll defend to death your right to say it”?

Jun 3, 2009 - 4:27 pm 89. sheesh:

61. Ms. Attitude:
26. sheesh:
“You are about as worthless as a pile of sheesh…you don’t deserve my response.”

You won’t respond because you can’t respond. Everybody gets that.

Jun 3, 2009 - 4:56 pm 90. sheesh:

81. G Alston: . . . Other than the “cosmic jewish zombie” (really only “zombie”), everything you wrote is absolutely true of the Christian belief system. I don’t think any Christians hereabouts could dispute or deny any of it. Nice work.

Jun 3, 2009 - 5:01 pm 91. sheesh:

79. Chuck Pelto: . . . “….out of curiosity….when did you become a member of Mensa?”

Geez Louise, Chuck, again? Really man, you should stop. It’s unseemly.

Jun 3, 2009 - 5:03 pm 92. Ms. Attitude:

81. G Alston:

It’s more than you have.

Jun 3, 2009 - 5:08 pm 93. BettyBlue:

True, Chuck, they do see us as spiritually dangerous to them. Hence the constant, “SHUT UP! SHUT UP! SHUT UP!”

Jun 3, 2009 - 5:17 pm 94. BettyBlue:

G. Alston, if it really is just a dead Jewish zombie Christians worship, why all the anger? If you’re really an atheist, and not quaking in your boots, or whatever, then what do you care what other people worship, be it a dead Jewish prophet, Mother Earth or their left big toe?

Jun 3, 2009 - 5:19 pm 95. Donna V.:

Free Hat: Have you ever considered that future generations may consider you and other defenders of abortion in exactly the same light as we view slaveholders and 19th century apologists for slavery today? High def ultrasounds were not available when Roe v. Wade was passed. Now prospective parents can clearly see the faces of babes in the womb – babies just as old as the ones Tiller was murdering. But the wanted ones – they’re the lucky ones. The unwanted ones are considered pieces of disposable trash. They’re not human because of another person’s subjective opinion. That is no more defensible then slavery in my opinion and I think that as we learn more and more about fetal medicine, abortion will disgust more and more people. And it really does take a special sort of cold-heartedness to even defend aborting a baby right up until the day before it’s due – never mind actually performing the procedure. (Or leaving a breathing, gasping baby in a closet or on a table to die – something that is perfectly fine with our prez and other liberals. ‘Cause you’re all so compassionate.)

All of the progressive who think we should model on ourselves on Europeans should know that that means more restrictive abortion laws. No European country permits abortions as late as the ones Tiller routinely performed – because they think it barbaric. In this case, they’re absolutely right.

God Alston, there are atheists, like the estimable Nat Hendoff, for instance, who can clearly see that abortion is wrong and who make the case on non-theological grounds. Sadly, they seem to be in the minority. Atheists like you give credence to the argument that, while individual non-believers might be OK (although usually they are obnoxious and arrogant twerps), atheism on a mass scale and the abandonment of Judeo-Christian belief in the dignity of human beings would lead to an even uglier, more totalitarian world. (And don’t scream “Inquisition!” I’ll scream “Gulags! Killing fields!” I doubt if anybody who has been forced to have an abortion in China or is languishing in prison there feels the problem with China is that their leaders are too religious.)

Jun 3, 2009 - 5:25 pm 96. Donna V.:

Correction to my last post: Of course, Roe v. Wade wasn’t passed. It was decided by the Supreme Court, based on some mysterious “right to privacy.”

Even many attorneys who favor legalized abortion think it bad law and stupidly decided.

Jun 3, 2009 - 5:28 pm 97. G Alston:

#87 — It’s more than you have.

What I have is reality. It’s awesome. You should try it.

Jun 3, 2009 - 6:06 pm 98. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: sheesh

Geez Louise, Chuck, again? Really man, you should stop. It’s unseemly. — sheesh

This character can’t back up their claims of whatever and they require those who can ‘back up their claims’ to be silent.

It’s another example of ‘Shut up, America!’

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. As if I should be ashamed of what God has given me…..

Jun 3, 2009 - 6:39 pm 99. G. Clarke:

Apart from the morality, there is a good argument, based on Tiller’s own admissions, that he was fudging the grounds for the “mother’s health” basis for his late term abortions.
Based on this, there was certainly a good argument that Tiller’s l-t-a’s were illegal both under Roe v. Wade (which ostensibly sought to limit abortions to the first two trimesters) and under local state law, which, like most doctors, recognized that any late term baby is viable and is guaranteed to survive any termination of the pregnancy, if the assisting medical folk don’t interfere with the baby’s instinct for survival. So to keep saying Tiller was murdered for engaging in legal behavior is not true. He was murdered for performing illegal and murderous acts like Capone, and then paying off the authorities with millions of his ill-gotten gain in order to “get away with it.” Does that wrong justify the other wrong, his murder in church in front of his wife? No, of course not, and his murderer won’t be acquitted, but for some reason I see the need to put Tiller’s murder in accurate context.

Jun 3, 2009 - 6:50 pm 100. john samford:

“Frankly, I’m suprised that you even believe in DNA, given that it’s mentioned nowhere in the Bible.”

Treehat, you are asuming that I am a Christian. I AM NOT.
I am a firm believer of ‘Don’t ask don’t tell’ when it comes to religion. Let me just say when they start feeding Christians to the lions again I will Tivo it so I can watch over and over. As far as being a veggie, no thanks. I know that the last vegetarian subspecies (A robustus) of humanity died out between 1 and 2 million years ago. There is rumored to be a small colony left in California. Does this picture remind you of anyone?

http://www.archaeologyinfo.com/australopithecusrobustus.htm

If you say Nancy Pelosi, you join the pack, in the middle of the herd.
Here is a thought and a question for you to squeeze into your liberal sized brain. If Liberals keep murdering their babies and conservatives don’t, who will be the last one standing? Put your math skills to work on that.

Jun 3, 2009 - 7:03 pm 101. Federale:

Yeah, you are right, I don’t give a flying frak about his life. He is burning in hell, and that is too bad, as he should have had the chance to repent, but tough luck.

Now, the reason he is dead is because the Supreme Court unconstitutionally removed abortion from the political process, from the States that have the authority under the Constitution to legislate issues concerning abortion. Killing Tiller is a slap at the Supreme Court, which should just overturn Roe and let the States regulate abortion. If you want an abortion, just live in MA, or NY or CA. That is what federalism is all about, what our Founding Fathers envisioned. So, the killing of Tiller was an act in support of the Constitution. And, of course, of life, because, as all State laws say, you can use deadly force to save the life of another. If you don’t think fetuses are human beings, then you are opposed to killing Tiller. If fetuses are a life, then you can legally kill an abortionist.

Jun 3, 2009 - 7:05 pm 102. BettyBlue:

Donna V., gulags, killing fields, indeed!

If you really wanted to be mean, you could say that many progressive leftists believe in a Zombi-fied Marxist belief system, created by a self-hating Jew, watered by the blood of millions of innocents, casting the state in the role of God almighty, with the secret police as high priests, all to save us from the evil inherent in the capitalist system, and lead us into a workers egalitarian paradise, where the rivers flow with lemonade, money grows on trees.

That’s if you wanted to be mean.

Jun 3, 2009 - 7:11 pm 103. Ms. Attitude:

G. Alston, I’ve been there, done that. It’s an empty life. I like living my life with a little taste of heaven. I don’t fight about my faith, it’s personal. I won’t stone you because you don’t believe what I believe. But I will pray for you.

Sheesh, I’ve responded tons of times today to reasonable people, on this thread and the other threads about Tiller. Everybody gets that.

Jun 3, 2009 - 7:13 pm 104. Pee Wee Herman, Community Organizer:

Ms. Attitude, you don’t need to stone him; he’s doing a fine job of getting stoned himself.

Jun 3, 2009 - 8:39 pm 105. G. Clarke:

From another PJM article about Sotomayor, I find this. In opposing the Alito nomination Senator Obama is quoted as having said that those on the Court should address the question of “. . . whether a general right of privacy encompasses a more specific right of women to control their reproductive decisions.” What I am not getting is if human beings have a God-given right of privacy granted by their Creator, who created them all in a state of equality, why then doesn’t the equally-created child, in partially being born, have an equal right of privacy as codified, penumbra-like, in our Bill of Rights? If we can agree that she obviously does then this should effectively bar anyone from piercing her skull and sucking her brains out for financial purposes. The Right of Privacy for this reason does not resolve the question of abortion — only the question of the humanity of the child can effectively resolve this issue. If we look at the honesty of ante-bellum slave owners or of the Nazis or of the anti-capitalist Bosheviks in impartially resolving the question of the humanity of their intended victims, then we know the human brain, affected as it constantly is with ulterior motives, cannot be trusted to resolve this issue, whether it is the brain of an average human being walking around, or the brain of a trained Supreme Court justice with no legislative power. Thus we see that Jefferson was right in enunciating the required default position: We are all created, not born, equal, and any other more restrictive argument is automatically suspect since no one says that, hey, a baby is subhuman so let’s kill her. No. The brain works the other way. We actually say “I hate Jews or I want to own slaves, or this baby is an imposition so I want to get rid of them or exploit them, and it would certainly serve my interests if I could do that, so they must be sub-human. The Right of privacy thus means that no one with human DNA is sub-human so you can’t kill anyone, unless they’re trying to kill you. I can’t figure out any other logical answer from the founding religious principles of our Nation.

Jun 3, 2009 - 8:41 pm 106. Pee Wee Herman, Community Organizer:

Treehat, you are asuming that I am a Christian. I AM NOT.

Don’t harsh his buzz. We’re ALL fundie holy rollers. K? Don’t want the troll’s head to pop, now do you?

Trolls need their cartoons. Repeat after me: Nuke the gay baby whales for Jesus! Nuke the gay baby whales for Jesus! Nuke the gay baby whales for Jesus!

Jun 3, 2009 - 8:45 pm 107. Oscar the Grump:

This is the one issue that defeated the Republican party in the last election. The women of America voted in mass because Obama would not try to overturn Roe vs Wade. The murder of Tiller only ads to their paranoia. Leave the abortion issue alone. We have a much worse problems with the new Czar of the United States. We have the destruction of our economic system, the dismantling of our defense forces, and the dismantling of our foreign policy. Watching Obama daily on TV is like seeing an annoying cartoon, only its on on all stations. Let’s focus on what we need to do, that is defeat him in the next election. God bless America!

Jun 3, 2009 - 10:50 pm 108. ballahu08:

Allah says the obvious. also. Cut their heads.

Jun 3, 2009 - 11:37 pm 109. G Alston:

#86 — What was I saying earlier about the response of ‘atheists’ when presented with the idea that some people think differently from them?

Spin, mensa boy, spin. By my accurately pointing out that you believe in talking snakes and magic trees, you now want to claim you’re being attacked. How so? Poor persecuted man. The scrotal torsion alone from that sort of spin could sterilise an elephant.

Do you now deny you believe in talking snakes, or do you simply find my characterisation of a talking snake (by calling it, ummmm, a talking snake) hurtful to your sensitive nature? Go ahead; call me names, Pelto. Call me an atheist, or gay, or both. It’s what you do. You know you want to. It’s all you got.

#102 — If you really wanted to be mean…[snip]

Satire only works when it’s on target and funny. Your bit was neither. Talking snakes, on the other hand, are quite amusing.

#103 — I like living my life with a little taste of heaven.

And I think that’s great if that works for you. It works for hundreds of millions. My only point with the accurate summary of christian belief is that believing in talking snakes etc. doesn’t automatically hand said believer the moral high ground.

#95 — God Alston, there are atheists, like the estimable Nat Hendoff, for instance, who can clearly see that abortion is wrong and who make the case on non-theological grounds.

In your pointy-headed tunnel vision world, anyone who fails to believe in talking snakes is an atheist. Noted. You must be a mensa member as well.

Jun 4, 2009 - 12:13 am 110. Donna V.:

Alston, Nat Hentoff is an atheist by anybody’s
definition, including yours, dolt.

Jun 4, 2009 - 4:23 am 111. Meryl:

A murderer killed a murderer….but there’s good news for the left! another murderer has already stepped into the shoes of the murderer who died on Sunday and offered to take up the task of murdering babies and removing their brains.

But the conversation has to focus on “how does the right wing produce ‘these people’?”????

Our acquiescence to being put on the defensive has got to stop.

I want to know how the LEFT keeps on producing people willing to kill babies–any time, anywhere, anyhow, in the most loathsome deliberate way possible. How does THAT keep happening? What is it about THEIR perceptions that makes this possible? What is about THEIR personal goals that causes them to decide that it MAKES SENSE to suck babies’ brains out with machines and then call it “helping the mothers”.

Why doesn’t somebody investigate THAT?

Jun 4, 2009 - 4:32 am 112. David S:

@28. Chuck Pelto:

“Anyone who is a christian is a threat to ‘national security’.”

You imply that every christian is a “fanatic”. Do you really believe that all christians are so dangerous?

In my personal experience, it is only a relatively narrow fringe that poses any real threat.

@87. Chuck Pelto:

“I look forward to your ’silence’ and/or ‘obfuscation’.”

When you characterize rational thought and observation as “obfuscation”, you’ve already lost the contest. Better luck next time.

Peace.

DS

Jun 4, 2009 - 5:43 am 113. Ms. Attitude:

109. G Alston: A great deal of Christianity is based on symbolism. So are many other religions. I didn’t agree with murder before I became a Christian. Whether it be a baby or another human. I’ve witnessed miracles with my own eyes. Things that cannot be explained by doctors, logic or science. Like I said, my religion. I also believe in positive and negative energy…so, I guess I’m a real whack job as far you are concerned. We get out of life what we put into it. Keep putting your negative thoughts and words out there and negative will come back to you. Read the Bible, if for nothing else, for the fun of it. The stories and Genesis have been proven true by archaeological studies. Did you know that there were coins found in China that depict a snake standing up, they were made before Judaism was in existence?

As for my belief in Heaven and Hell….I believe Christ died for the world, everyone, including you. We just have some ’splainin to do!

Back to the subject at hand….a late term abortion is more harmful to a woman than giving birth. She goes through the same process but in in a LTA the baby must be made breach!! Have you had a baby turned inside of your uterus? It hurts, really bad!! Even when the baby does it naturally. The mother has labor induced, yes, the full labor thing…that hurts to. She then gives birth to a breach baby, but wait, stop pushing while the head is still inside the birth canal so the doctor can kill it. Have you had a baby and had to stop pushing while your instincts and body are telling you to push? It aint easy! Wallah….you have a dead baby…and if it isn’t dead it gets thrown away anyway, to die in a trash can.

As for earlier abortions, I disagree with them, because I know the joy of holding an unplanned baby in my arms. More than once. They are two of my three children. All of my children bring me joy. I thank God I didn’t listen to my parents with my oldest. I was 18, not married, in college and my boyfriend was a loser! My son is an Eagle Scout, productive member of society, and can make me laugh til I cry. I found out about my pregnancy with my youngest while I was going through a divorce, almost 40, had two teenage sons, and had moved in with my mom!! She is a blessing, she’s 5 and so awesome. My planned pregnancy was my middle child, he’s equally as awesome as the other two. I’m blessed! I’ve gotten my degree, I’m moving up in life, the pregnancies didn’t hurt my life, they made it better. So, don’t say, that a woman will be held back by a baby. It’s harder but the rewards are awesome.

As for birth control…I’m all for it…I was stupid teenager thinking that missing a few pills wouldn’t matter and I was a full grown woman who got pregnant on birth control pills. Go figure, I just believe that my daughter has something great in store for her because she was made despite her mom taking the pill for 13 years and not getting pregnant before….I wish I could post a picture of her without some freak messing with her. You would see what a child that, by your standards, should’ve been aborted looks like.

Jun 4, 2009 - 6:02 am 114. sheesh:

98. Chuck Pelto . . . “It’s another example of ‘Shut up, America!’”

Not at all. It’s simply a plea for humility, a gift you didn’t receive from god.

Jun 4, 2009 - 7:29 am 115. bobbcat:

107. Oscar the Grump: “Leave the abortion issue alone. We have a much worse problems with the new Czar of the United States. We have the destruction of our economic system, the dismantling of our defense forces, and the dismantling of our foreign policy. Watching Obama daily on TV is like seeing an annoying cartoon, only its on on all stations. Let’s focus on what we need to do, that is defeat him in the next election. God bless America!”

Sounds like a plan to me!

Jun 4, 2009 - 8:47 am 116. Chuck Pelto:

TO: David S
RE: Better….

Do you really believe that all christians are so dangerous? — David S

…re-read item #68 (above), again. And this time, try to understand English.

RE: Thanks!

When you characterize rational thought and observation as “obfuscation”, you’ve already lost the contest. — David S

You just proved my point as it relates to YOU as well.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....]

Jun 4, 2009 - 11:45 am 117. Chuck Pelto:

TO: sheesh
RE: Heh

Not at all. It’s simply a plea for humility, a gift you didn’t receive from god. — sheesh

All of my gifts are God-given. And that includes discernment as to how to deal with folks like you.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. You sound ‘jealous’…..and it doesn’t look good on you….

Jun 4, 2009 - 11:53 am 118. Self-hating Boomer:

The women of America voted in mass because Obama would not try to overturn Roe vs Wade.

Surveys show a larger percentage of women opposing abortion than men. The claim that women want abortion en bloc is a myth. And besides, the president doesn’t have the power to overturn SCOTUS decisions.

Next.

Jun 4, 2009 - 1:38 pm 119. G Alston:

#113 — …so, I guess I’m a real whack job as far you are concerned. We get out of life what we put into it.

No, not a whack job. You’re describing karma: what goes around comes around. And so on. In your bible check out Hosea 8:1-14 for one example of the christian equivalent. The ancients were often good at codifying common wisdom shared across various cultural traditions (I’ve a daughter who’s an anthropologist.)

Back to the subject at hand… a late term abortion is more harmful to a woman than giving birth.

I don’t find much to disagree with here. Even when the baby is certain to be born dead this sort of thing will take a toll.

Jun 4, 2009 - 2:50 pm 120. Chuck Pelto:

TO: G Alston
RE: Hosiah, You Say?

In your bible check out Hosea 8:1-14 for one example of the christian equivalent. — G Alston

You mean THIS…..

Set the trumpet to thy mouth.

He shall come as an eagle against the house of the LORD, because they have transgressed my covenant, and trespassed against my law. Israel shall cry unto me, My God, we know thee.

Israel hath cast off the thing that is good: the enemy shall pursue him. They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not: of their silver and their gold have they made them idols, that they may be cut off. Thy calf, O Samaria, hath cast thee off; mine anger is kindled against them: how long will it be ere they attain to innocency? For from Israel was it also: the workman made it; therefore it is not God: but the calf of Samaria shall be broken in pieces. For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind: it hath no stalk: the bud shall yield no meal: if so be it yield, the strangers shall swallow it up.

Israel is swallowed up: now shall they be among the Gentiles as a vessel wherein is no pleasure. For they are gone up to Assyria, a wild ass alone by himself: Ephraim hath hired lovers. Yea, though they have hired among the nations, now will I gather them, and they shall sorrow a little for the burden of the king of princes. Because Ephraim hath made many altars to sin, altars shall be unto him to sin. I have written to him the great things of my law, but they were counted as a strange thing. They sacrifice flesh for the sacrifices of mine offerings, and eat it; but the LORD accepteth them not; now will he remember their iniquity, and visit their sins: they shall return to Egypt. For Israel hath forgotten his Maker, and buildeth temples; and Judah hath multiplied fenced cities: but I will send a fire upon his cities, and it shall devour the palaces thereof. — Hosiah 8:1-14

Interesting…..

Just HOW is it you consider the prophetic destruction of Israel, as described by the prophet Hosiah, a “christian equivalent”?

Indeed, based on the events of late, were you thinking of a chastisement of America? As Hosiah is prophesying the chastisement of Israel?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[I am ready for the storm;
Yes sir, ready..... -- Rich Mullin]

Jun 4, 2009 - 3:15 pm 121. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: ERRATA

That’s “Hosea” NOT “Hosiah”.

My error. My apologies….

Regards,

Chuck(le)

Jun 4, 2009 - 3:20 pm 122. ms:

There’s no reason that the pro-choice liberals should be upset.

Tiller just had late-term abortion performed on him. I mean really, really late-term.

Now they can rest easy.

Jun 4, 2009 - 11:48 pm 123. Meryl:

122.ms

You know, I believe you have a point there.

Jun 5, 2009 - 5:50 am 124. G Alston:

#120 — For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind: it hath no stalk: the bud shall yield no meal: if so be it yield, the strangers shall swallow it up.

Reaping what you sow is pedestrian and found in other chapters of Hosea (and so on.) Whirlwinds are poetry. Same concept.

Jun 5, 2009 - 9:03 am 125. Chuck Pelto:

TO: G Alston
RE: The Poetic Whirlwind

Whirlwinds are poetry. — G Alston

You OBVIOUSLY have never experienced a tornado. Let alone a hurricane.

Or are you saying that Israel was not destroyed by the Assyrians as Hosea prophesied?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The proof of the truth of the Word is found in prophesy fulfilled.]

Jun 5, 2009 - 10:03 am 126. BettyBlue:

And here’s another example of crazy, right-wing violence—er, uh, actually, no. . . http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026463.php#respond

Jun 5, 2009 - 10:22 am 127. BettyBlue:

And, speaking of groups that don’t have all their cogs moving in the right direction; hmmmmm. . . . http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026443.php

Jun 5, 2009 - 10:25 am 128. David S:

@116. Chuck Pelto:

Apparently you can’t tell the difference between fantasy and reality. In my estimation, that’s the one thing that makes religious fanatics truly dangerous. Fanatic beliefs are no danger until confused with objective reality.

@125. Chuck Pelto:

“The proof of the truth of the Word is found in prophesy fulfilled.”

A true kool-aid drinker if ever one there was. Picking a prophet is picking a poison. I’m glad to see you heartily enjoy yours.

Peace.

DS

Jun 5, 2009 - 11:43 am 129. G Alston:

#125 — Or are you saying that Israel was not destroyed by the Assyrians as Hosea prophesied?

I’m saying reaping what you sow is the same concept as karma. Aren’t you supposed to be really bright? Next time I’ll use a crayon if you’re around.

#126 — And here’s another example of crazy, right-wing violence—er, uh, actually, no. . . http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/026463.php#respond

You’re making the case for religious crazies being the ones you want to watch. Religious crazies aren’t limited to far right wing christians. The Koran thumping muslims are much worse.

Jun 5, 2009 - 11:53 am 130. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: THIS….

A true kool-aid drinker if ever one there was. Picking a prophet is picking a poison. — David S

…from the self-professed minister. And, as I understand him, from the Church of the Poisoned Mind. Well….I guess he KNOWS ‘poison’ better than most of us. Especially of the religious kind.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. Speaking of ‘poison’, I wonder if he knows what Chernobyl translates to English from its native Ukrainian…..

Jun 5, 2009 - 2:49 pm 131. Chuck Pelto:

P.P.S. And how that relates to the statement from me that he takes extreme umbrage at…..

Jun 5, 2009 - 2:50 pm 132. G Alston:

#131 — P.S. Speaking of ‘poison’, I wonder if he knows what Chernobyl translates to English from its native Ukrainian…

You said it was Wormwood, which is found in your holy book in the revelations chapters. Some of us listen.

I doubt we’re in the end times. There have been people saying this for 2000 years (such belief was popular long before Nicea even) and the one thing in common they share is that they’ve been consistently and spectacularly wrong.

Statistically speaking, it’s unlikely, therefore David S is almost certainly correct.

Are you one of those who’s attributing special meaning to 2012 irrespective of the mayan calendar?

Jun 5, 2009 - 3:41 pm 133. Chuck Pelto:

TO: G Alston
RE: See!

You said it was Wormwood, which is found in your holy book in the revelations chapters. Some of us listen. — G Alston

Blogging about this stuff actually ‘works’…..to one degree or another. I’m sure you’re not the only one who learned something from that.

RE: How ‘Late’ Is It?

I doubt we’re in the end times. — G Alston

You’re welcome to them. I had mine, at first. But then after using IPB and predicting the outbreak of Gulf War I to within 24 hours, the previous August, I decided things were, as we say in the military, ‘moving right along’.

And that, based on the next chapter in that particular ‘book’ of that Old Book.

So…..

….hang on to your hats! The ‘fun’ is just beginning….in earnest…..

RE: The Mayan Thing

Are you one of those who’s attributing special meaning to 2012 irrespective of the mayan calendar? — G Alston

Sorry to disappoint, but I’ve not studied that. But I have heard of it. And it would make an interesting ‘coincidence’.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Coincidence, n., When God works a miracle and doesn't get the credit.]

Jun 5, 2009 - 6:17 pm 134. no name:

dealers in mayhem? he’s just a practitioner of post birth abortion! what’s the problem?

Jun 5, 2009 - 9:12 pm 135. Chuck Pelto:

TO: G Alston
RE: [OT] Sooooo…..

…..besides the translation of Chernobyl from Ukrainian to English resulting in “Wormwood”…..

….did you take the time to look up the reference in that Old Book?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The fulfillment of prophecy is proof of SOMETHING.....]

Jun 6, 2009 - 11:35 am 136. G Alston:

#135 — ….did you take the time to look up the reference in that Old Book?

No, but I can and will. It’s interesting.

Chapter:verse please?

Jun 6, 2009 - 1:05 pm 137. Chuck Pelto:

TO: G Alston
RE: Indeed….

No, but I can and will. It’s interesting. — G Alston

…you [and others] might even be able to ‘bet your life’ on the knowledge.

The more interesting correlation is how it flows into what happened four years later, as described in the next ‘chapter’ of that ‘book’.

RE: Chernobyl, Chapter/Verse

Chapter: Revelation 8
Verses: 10-11

Now think/sleep on it and tell me how a man of the First Century would describe to his contemporaries a runaway nuclear reactor. At a place called “Wormwood”. Please notice the use of the proper noun form as it is written there.

So…..

…..how do you think a man of the First Century would describe to his contemporaries a runaway nuclear reactor at a town names “Wormwood”?

And, please, don’t forget that the Soviet effort to cover-up the incident resulted in an ‘above-ground’ cement cover of the melted core. Meanwhile ALL the radioactive materials are seeping into the ground-water, which is slowly but surely making its way to the Black Sea. And from there into the Mediterranean.

We’re talking about ‘poisoning’ a LOT of ‘water’.

RE: Gulf War I (Part 1)

Chapter: Revelation 9
Versus: 1-11

THIS was the ‘telling’ part.

The day after Hussein invaded Kuwait, I was in for ‘duty’ with a comrade-in-arms of the Armor persuasion.

We were talking about the import of the invasion and how we thought US would respond.

At that time, I was a two-tour (enlisted and commissioned) ‘veteran’ of the 82d Airborne Division [Note: The proverbial ‘fire-house’ unit of the US Army.] I KNEW their ‘playbook’, front to back and backwards with various variations.

I’m infantry. My compatriot at this meeting was a tanker.

Between the two of us we put together a ‘possibility’, using Intelligence Preparation of the Battlefield (IPB) techniques we’d learned from the US Army Command and General Staff College (Fort Leavenworth).

In that process we applied the techniques of “Named Areas of Interest” (NAI) and ‘time-frames’.

So, if you read Rev 9:1-11, you see reports of these VERY ODD ‘locust’ that don’t eat grass and bear a VERY strong resemblance to the Apache AH-64 attack helicopter, looking at them from the ‘understanding’ of a man of the First Century: look like a locust, arrayed for battle, crowns like gold, faces of men, hair like women, stink in their ‘tail’, etc., etc…..

Well…..

…based on my experiences with the 82d Airborne. And knowing they’d be the first unit deployed to respond to the invasion, I figured that they’d be in place in Saudi Arabia by mid-August, 1990, with their contingent of AH-64 Apaches.

My compatriot, a tanker-cum-attack helio driver, agreed.

So, in that section it talks about how these ‘locust’ torment men for five months and then this great war breaks out in the Euphrates River valley…..which runs though Iraq.

So……

……from mid-August, when the 82d Airborne has deployed to Saudi Arabia, with its AH-64 Apache attack helicopters…..

….what is “five months”?

You can use your fingers.

I’ll wait……

And you came up with WHAT?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Coincidence, n., When God works a miracle and doesn’t get the credit.]

P.S. More to follow, after you ingest THIS information…..

Jun 6, 2009 - 3:45 pm 138. Chuck Pelto:

TO: G Alston
RE: Sooooo…..

….what’s my ‘point’?

It’s certainly not only to you. As you admit you followed a ‘discussion’ between myself and another person and, as a result, learned something ‘useful’.

How you use that information is STRICTLY up to you.

I just put it out here in the hope that someone MIGHT find it ‘useful’.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out....but only those with eyes and/or ears to accept it will benefit.....]

Jun 6, 2009 - 3:57 pm 139. G Alston:

#137 — P.S. More to follow, after you ingest THIS information…

I can see your claim.

However, for me reading revelations is a headache not unlike trying to ferret out the meaning of a nostradamus quatrain. Surely one could read almost anything into much of this.

I’m missing the part preceding the locusts (and sure I can see where Apaches look like that) there’s a third of this and that getting wiped. Unless of course this too is purely metaphor. It’s hard to tell.

Anyway I’m ready for part deux.

It’s been so long since I’ve read or thought about these parts that it’s interesting again. If for nothing else I thank you for the pleasant diversion.

Afterwards, are you ready to cross swords again for the next round of conservative vs republican?

Jun 6, 2009 - 8:56 pm 140. Chuck Pelto:

TO: G Alston
RE: Headaches

However, for me reading revelations is a headache not unlike trying to ferret out the meaning of a nostradamus quatrain. — G Alston

What’s that old adage?

No pain….no gain…..

RE: The ‘Apache’ Dance

I’m missing the part preceding the locusts (and sure I can see where Apaches look like that) there’s a third of this and that getting wiped. Unless of course this too is purely metaphor. It’s hard to tell. — G Alston

Catching on to the AH-64 think? Good. Line for line, the description in that Old Book is what I’d expect of a man of the First Century trying to describe such to his contemporaries, i.e., in terms they might be able to understand.

As an example, having done a couple of tours in the 82d, we used a lot of helicopters in operations. And I have to admit, being in the midst of a battalion lift is like being in the middle of the Ben Hur chariot race, with all those rotor thrashing the air into ’submission’.

As for the “third of this and that getting wiped”….

….we slaughtered a third of Hussein’s committed forces in GWI. As for the ‘metaphoric’, I wouldn’t put it past humanity to have had a third of itself mentally ’slaughtered’. After all….

…..look how many people voted for Obama.

RE: A “Pleasant Diversion”

If for nothing else I thank you for the pleasant diversion. — G Alston

Glad to be of some use. However, I suspect that it’ll be more than merely that. After all, as I pointed out earlier, YOU learned something from the earlier engagement with David S. I’m sure others did as well.

And likewise, even more will learn from our engagement here.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Events in prophecy are closer than they appear in your Bible.]

Jun 7, 2009 - 6:10 pm 141. Chuck Pelto:

P.S. As I understand it….and I COULD be wrong….but I doubt it…..

….we’re just a couple of ’steps’, i.e., events, away from the proverbial ‘Last Trumpet’.

Doubt this?

Consider how well the last part of Rev 9 correlates with a First Century man’s description of GWI. And remember, it’s the SIXTH TRUMPET of SEVEN.

In between there are seven ‘thunders’. What do you think might qualify as a ‘thunder’?

Jun 7, 2009 - 6:18 pm 142. G Alston:

#141 — In between there are seven ‘thunders’. What do you think might qualify as a ‘thunder’?

Best I can make out via the NIV is a description that sounds more like the appearance of the ships in the Independence Day movie than anything else. I suck at this. I admit it.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=73&chapter=10&version=31

Jun 7, 2009 - 11:56 pm 143. Chuck Pelto:

TO: G Alston
RE: Thundering

Personally, I think it’s some like a war: Rwanda, Balkins, Intifada, Global War on Terror, Gulf War II. But it could be some other disruptive event, a cometary impact along the lines described in Niven and Pournelle’s Lucifer’s Hammer.

Hard to say. I just keep a ‘weather-eye’ on what’s happening.

RE: This ‘Sucks’

Well….

….don’t feel like the Lone Ranger. Sometimes, the only way to recognize it is in retrospect. I admit that Steve and I got ‘lucky’ with our IPB estimate on the outbreak of GWI, 19 years ago. But ever since then, we’ve been keeping a close watch on what’s going on. And from my perspective, as I said earlier, “things just keep moving along”.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Don't you love it when a plan comes together?]

Jun 8, 2009 - 5:35 am 144. Chuck Pelto:

TO: G Alston
RE: And Stop Calling Me “Cherly”

Surely one could read almost anything into much of this. — G Alston

Lots of people have. And lots of people do. And lots of people will. However, I remind you of the ‘lucky’ call Steve and I came up with in identifying the outbreak of GWI.

Furthermore, all the verses correlate well with Operations DESERT SHIED/DESERT STORM.

But, as an additional ‘kicker’. Consider the use of proper nouns. Not only with Chernobyl/Wormwood, but in the case of GWI, look at the ‘name of the angel’ who has charge over these ‘locust’.

Got a good atlas?

Get it out and look at the names of the cities near the mouth of the Euphrates. Notice any ’similarity’?

One would think that the use of a proper noun would be a tad more than mere ‘coincidence’. Especially TWICE. In the military, using IPB, we refer to such ‘places’ as “Named Areas of Interest” (NAIs). If one of our intell pukes tells us a place name and advises us to keep an eye on it for a particular event, we pay close attention.

And if that event takes place at that NAI, we ‘get a clue’. And we react accordingly.

So that’s TWO NAIs and TWO events that took place at them in accordance to reports provided earlier: as in 2000 years, earlier.

Sooooo…..

…..what’s my point?

It’s later than most people care to think.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. How does ANY of this relate to the murder of Tiller?

Only in the sense that the perp is not, repeat NOT, a very good ‘christian’. Christians pay closer attention to that Old Book than the perp did…..

Jun 8, 2009 - 7:52 am

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