Time for Conservatives to Unite and Fight
Individualists must overcome their distrust of mass movements and rallies in order to combat the socialist tide.
Let’s take a look at conservative individualism in action: When I was at CPAC in February, I met a woman who was handing out business cards for her new blog venture. Cynthia billed herself as a “newly conservative lesbian” and I said, “Welcome to conservatism.” She replied that the reaction from those she had met at CPAC was a lot warmer than she had expected. She even related that she could no longer hang out with many in her local lesbian community because of some of her new political views — it seems she is viewed as a “traitor” to the cause. (For more on such knee-jerk reactions to political correctness and the left-wing agenda, see this Big Hollywood piece by Charles Winecoff.)
If you read Cynthia’s blog, you’ll see that she does not share every conservative view known to man — her main concern seems to be taxes and “the right to use your own money for yourself and the causes you want supported, which often are causes that never would be supported by government.” Is that enough to be considered a conservative? Some would say “no,” and I myself often decry those RINOs who are in elected positions within our government. But if you’ll read between the lines of the quote I include from Cynthia’s blog, you’ll see that what she’s espousing is individualism — something near and dear to every true conservative’s heart.
Here’s another example, going back to America’s pioneer heritage. I’ve always been a fan of the Little House series by Laura Ingalls Wilder — so much so that I even have books with other writings by both Laura and her daughter, Rose Wilder Lane. During her lifetime, Rose was an internationally known journalist and writer, and it was due to her influence and support that her mother wrote her landmark children’s series.
One of these books, titled A Little House Sampler, features short stories, poems, and speeches by both women, and it’s a speech titled “My Work” by Laura — first delivered to the Mountain Grove Sorosis Club in the early 1930s — that I would like to share with you. The speech focused on her new career, embarked upon in her 60s, as a children’s writer.
No, I won’t share the entire speech here; that would violate copyright law. But this one particular passage that, in the wake of the election of a man whose past statements and actions show him to be a socialist, is particularly poignant as it speaks to how America used to face crisis and hard times:
There is still one thing more the writing of these books has shown me.
Running through all of the stories, like a golden thread, is the same thought of the values of life. They were courage, self-reliance, independence, integrity, and helpfulness. Cheerfulness and humor were handmaids to courage.
In the depression following the Civil War my parents, as so many others, lost all their savings in a bank failure. They farmed the rough land on the edge of the Big Woods in Wisconsin. They struggled with the climate and fear of Indians in the Indian Territory. For two years in succession they lost their crops to the grasshoppers on the Banks of Plum Creek. They suffered cold and heat, hard work and privation as did others of their time. When possible they turned bad into good. If not possible, they endured it. Neither they nor their neighbors begged for help. No other person, nor the government, owed them a living. They owed that to themselves and in some way they paid the debt. And they found their own way.
Their old-fashioned character values are worth as much today as they ever were to help us over the rough places. We need today courage, self-reliance, and integrity.
When we remember that our hardest times would have been easy times for our forefathers it should help us to be of good courage, as they were, even if things are not all as we would like them to be.
The pioneer spirit lives on today, but if the leftists have their way, it’ll be relegated to the dustbins of history.
During the Bush years, liberals loved to accuse conservatives of always being behind the president 100% of the time — calling conservatives what they thought to be imaginative names like Bushbots and Repuglicans — yeah, whatever. Hello? Does anyone remember the outcry against Bush’s support for “comprehensive immigration reform”? How about fiscal conservatives’ displeasure with “compassionate conservative” spending? Don’t tell me conservatives always agree with the leaders in their party. Meanwhile, the same people who told us dissent is patriotic during the last administration nearly have a coronary when Rush Limbaugh expresses a desire for Obama — and his policies — to fail and tell us all to give the new guy a chance. It’s kind of like “giving peace a chance” without Yoko Ono screeching in the background.
The belief that you can do for yourself better than any large conglomeration can do is a conservative core value. This may explain why conservatives almost instinctively shy away from anything that is mass-organized, which is why you see fewer conservative rallies and protests converging on Washington the size of those put together by the Left. Of course, it helps when liberal college professors offer students with malleable minds course credit for attending anti-war gatherings and the like — who wouldn’t want to get an A for skipping class? The running joke is that conservatives don’t have time to go to protests and rallies because they’re too busy going to work and taking care of their families, and there’s something to be said for that.
But if you’re looking for a reason to unite, just think of the words recently uttered by the man elected to lead our nation while on his world apology your:
Instead of celebrating your dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges, there have been times where America has shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive.
We really shouldn’t be surprised — American leftists have been bending over backward to apologize to the world for years. Barack Hussein Obama just happens to be in a position where people sit up and take notice. But this man was elected to represent us. Are we going to sit back and twiddle our thumbs while he does his best to trash our reputation so that he can remain popular in Europe and other foreign climes? Is his ego more important than America?
It’s time to get past our distaste of mass-organized events that somehow reek of the 1960s and make them our own, and we can do it without giving up the individuality that we cherish. I don’t claim to have the magic solution, but the Left isn’t going to stop. It’s time to fight fire with fire, and the only way that’s possible is to use their tactics. The tea parties are a great start. It’s time for the next step. Are you ready?
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Pam Meister is the editor for Family Security Matters and a contributor to Big Hollywood. Her work can also be seen at American Thinker. The views expressed here are her own.
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76 Comments
1. Derek:Individualism? LOL, thanks for the attempted psychoanalysis.
Being in power means you can go through the establishment so there is no point in building grassroots organizations to get around the establishment. Being out of power means you no longer have that access, and since your grassroots infrastructure has decayed you have to build it back up. This will be more and more important the longer you stay out of power. Right now it’s slightly important because you can win and all the major players will be right back in business. But that’s playing with fire, because a loss in 2010 and 2012 will deplete republican leadership as we know it on the national level. And we’d be having this conversation all over again in much more gloomy fashion
I mean, you can make up all the stuff you want to explain why modern conservatives don’t have the stomach to reach for power again. But that’s just burying your head in the sand. They don’t have the stomach for it because they haven’t yet been beaten enough to say enough’s enough. Everyone’s thinking they’ll just run Gingrich and we’ll party like it’s 1994. So there is no real urge to do anything beyond express grievance.
And the funny thing is that the techniques are staring you guys right in the face.
Ron Paul harnessed tremendous grassroots support and his ideology is certainly a million times more individualistic then anyone in the GOP has been since Goldwater. So don’t give me lame justifications as to why conservatives don’t have a grassroots movement. You rejected the guy that did.
I mean please. You make it sound like liberals always have the type of field organization Obama put together. Like it’s something that happens every year. It doesn’t. And it took work. I mean the funny thing is that a big part of Obama’s strategy was predicated on ideas from Karl Rove (Strict top-down message control, boosting base turnout) Clinton’s campaign (the war room) and new things (social networking). The tools are there. The more people that realize this and stop trying to make echo chamber “lulz, liberalz r teh groupthink” articles, the sooner things can get done.
Apr 10, 2009 - 12:43 am 2. Samizdat:There is alot to be said for Pam’s analysis. I remember in the 1980’s when the Republicans were more organized and cohesive than the Democrats and there seemed to be a solid grss roots quality to that circumstance. This may have occured in spite of the individualism limitaion.
Apr 10, 2009 - 4:23 am 3. Jim:I also think Derek’s analysis has merit; we may not yet be abused enough by the left to become more cohesive. The Republican party is not cohesive at this time. Because of their lack of organization exhibited over the last two election cysles I resigned from the RNC and now identify only with conservatives. I will mot vote for a RINO under any circumstance.
The Tea parties next week should demonstrate some cohesion. We need to adopt certain leftist tactics to gain power. One of those tactics involves organized protest. It is time to get in the face of our, so called masters in Washington and locally. The facts are on our side. We need to educate people on the facts. Independents are already turning away from President Obama’s profligate,intellectually bankrupt spending policies. They know that his “stimulus” was a misguided payoff to political constituencies and that the debt we are being saddled with is unsustainable. The liberals misread the meaning of the election results. The message was not let’s turn to socialism; it was let’s throw the unpopular bums out
We need to be mindful of any distaste for organizing and promote an alternative to Democrat waste and anti consumerism. Lots of US citizens will be looking for a political alternative shortly.
“modern conservatives don’t have the stomach to reach for power again.”
Hey Derek, stuff it. You don’t talk for me. You don’t talk for conservatives. Pam brings up some valid points, things I’ve been seeing for a while.
For the most part conservatives don’t want power in the first place, they want to leave people alone, and be left alone. We want every person to have the right to suceed or fail basd on their ability and motivation.
We don’t *want* to get involved in politics. It’s a dirty business that has spun out of control since the New Deal. The very fact that people are waking up tells me that we are on the edge of a coming revolution. Anyone who studies history (unlike the typical lib) would recognize that. Do you have any idea what it takes to get a group of conservatives to protest? Let alone hundreds of thousands?
As for groupthink, I don’t think the liberals have that, but I do think they have a lot of stupid college kids, community organizers and their flock, and ACORN-paid homeless people to create the illusion of a mass movement, and the media to play up anything they do. If Ron Paul had the media on his side like Obama did he would have been much more likely to win the GOP nomination (and no I didn’t support or vote for him.)
So think about what you say. Republicans and Conservatives are not the same people. We don’t want power for the sake of power. We want to see conservative values enforced in government for the benefit of all Americans, because those values will allow libs, socialists, atheists, and other anti-conservatives to freely express themselves without threatenting the last bastion of true liberty on the planet. And to do that, we’re going to have to take this country back and smack a large percentage of the population upside the head.
Apr 10, 2009 - 4:31 am 4. elvis:Actually we are and have been uniting. Where have you been?.
Apr 10, 2009 - 4:49 am 5. Sk8 Punk:Excellent post,
I would add another reason for conservatives lack of organization and activism that is also tied to the philosophies of left and right. I work and live in academia and one of the things Leftists have done with politics is internalize it and make it a central reason for living. We on the right externalize politics. It is not one of our main purposes or concerns. Think limited government; as long as government is taking care of the few things it should be tending to, we really don’t care as much, because our lives are wrapped up in other things. Not so on the Left. Politics has become a surrogate religion. I was just talking with a colleague about this yesterday. Her worldview centralizes politics in every aspect of our daily lives, and she very candidly admitted that she sees politics as a source of salvation from poverty, injustice, etc. So it is natural that people on the Left are far more passionate and involved.
But you and Breitbart and the rest are right. Personally, I agree with Breitbart’s vision more than anybody else on the Right, but that may be due more to the simple fact that we both live in the Heart of Lefty land- he in Hollywood, me in academia. We do need to organize and get involved, but more than that we need long term strategies that change the culture and shift it back to the classical liberalism of the Founding Fathers. My students are so divorced from “Americanism” that their gut level instincts are leftist before they enter college. We need a long term plan to fight this cultural decay, as well as a short term plan to defeat Obama’s socialism.
Apr 10, 2009 - 5:06 am 6. Meg:We need to start a new political party. The media has destroyed republican’s reputation and Ron Paul supporters are not taken seriously.
Apr 10, 2009 - 5:25 am 7. Meg:And this article is too long.
Apr 10, 2009 - 5:27 am 8. David S:Yes, many Conservatives believe in “individualism” – they are usually called libertarians.
What many on the right fail to recognize, is that Obama is correct in his criticism of the USA, and that blindly attacking him for admitting the obvious only makes it clear that you don’t understand how America can overcome our faults.
This is not about Obama’s “ego” – it is about America’s ego.
I also disagree with the assertion that Conservatives shy away from mass movements. Conservatives are by and large members of organized religious groups, which provide a built-in social peer group. The true individualists are on the fringes of the left and right, fighting for libertarian and anarchist values. Conservatives are economic individualists, but far too many have become collectivist on social issues, in hopes of legislating their religious beliefs.
Conservatives simply ignore the massive amount of work required to maintain a grassroots movement, and therefore will continue to go without. Obama did the work, and is reaping the fruit of his labor. Best community organizer ever?
Peace.
DS
Apr 10, 2009 - 5:59 am 9. dan:A truthful, reasonable education and virtuous habits naturally lead to a skepticism of “leaders,” without whom there can be no movement or unified group, and therein lies the trouble. I dislike, for example, the Sarah Palin theme: as attractive as she is in many respects, she is not good enough to be the leader needed to counteract the charisma and venal cliches of Obama & Axelrod. And I like the consonance between the natural individualism which emerges from good civic habits and the fact that all that is needed to combat Socialism is to say: No – nobody owes me anything that is not freely given and I owe no one anything that I do not freely give. It seems to me that conservative blogs’ best effect is that they simply provide a place for the puncturing of manipulative memes and the discussion of actually salient issues continues without respect to whatever the mass media says we ought to be preoccupied with. The internet and its various news feeds makes the first easier than ever, although it is a double-edged weapon.
In any case, I sympathize with your desire for a counterrevolution, and maybe that would be the best tactic, but ultimately if the public and private habits of individuals are so degraded that they decide to enact the petty and vengeful little fantasies of the socialists, then that is what we will get in this country. The mass may be decisive, but the mass is composed of individuals. Apparently they need constantly to be reminded of that. If there is to be a conservative movement uniting the non-Left, that should probably be its ultimate and avowed purpose.
Apr 10, 2009 - 6:15 am 10. mishu:Ron Paul had a naive, Chompskyite foreign policy stance. That’s why he was rejected.
Apr 10, 2009 - 6:22 am 11. moderationist:The only way reps will return to their greatness is to get religion back into the realm of persuasion and out of politics, especially imposing unlegislatable social views on others who don’t agree. Big tent or no tent.
Apr 10, 2009 - 6:24 am 12. AThinkingPerson:To answer the question posed in the last paragraph of the article… I AM READY!! Bring it on! I have to admit that this is really the first time in my adult life I’ve ever been this energized about getting physically involved in the workings of Washington. Sure, I’ve made calls and written letters to my Congress people, but this time it’s different. Not only that, it’s different for MANY in my area, especially the senior citizens. I’ve never seen them so angry and motivated to speak out.
The days of whining about woulda, coulda, shoulda are gone. Change is in the air and I feel honored to be living in a time in US history where I and my community can truly make a change in this country.I’m going to be able to tell my grandkids some day that I was a patriot. The unintelligent group-thinking liberals have had the keys far too long. I’m getting a tingle up my leg just thinking about it.
Apr 10, 2009 - 6:25 am 13. The Shadow:AThinkingPerson
You are much better at whining
Apr 10, 2009 - 6:45 am 14. Jim C:The reasons conservatives are unorganized are because we’re all at work every day and we want to spend our free time with our families.
Apr 10, 2009 - 6:52 am 15. AThinkingPerson:The Shadow…. Gee, a master of the written word I see? Did your forget to stop by the Huffington Post for your talking points today? Typical.
Apr 10, 2009 - 7:03 am 16. AThinkingPerson:Anyone else notice the silence at the White House concerning the pirate’s holding an American hostage? Funny how Obama is silent when it’s not a “campaign moment”.
What a leader we’ve got! What a brave patriot ready to stand up for Americans across the globe! Dear God when will he grow a set? Great to know in a time of great turmoil world wide we’ve got a Pacifist in Chief.
Apr 10, 2009 - 7:06 am 17. AThinkingPerson:One last bit about the pirate/hostage crisis… Can anyone stomach a video of Madam Secretary Hillary Clinton giggling about it? Watch at your own peril…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMDvOfIzGek&feature=player_embedded
Apr 10, 2009 - 7:12 am 18. Pastor of Muppets:Sorry, but this idea that “heartland values” are where the “real America” exist is total hogwash. We thought you would understand our feelings about this when we soundly rejected Palin and her claims about “real America”.
Additionally, The author’s attempts to use nostalgia of a fictional TV show about the frontier era just shows how ludicrous these ideas really are.
Anyone with a real sense of history understands that the frontier days in America were a brutal, violent time. They were not at all like “Little House”. In the frontier days, people died constantly from diseases that could not be treated because there were no doctors or hospitals. Children were poorly educated because there were no schools. People were frequently the victims of crime and violence because often times there was no police protection because the nearest Marshall was a week’s ride away. And many a time did a cattle rustler, highwayman or outlaw get away with his crime as a result.
Far from the fabricated lives of the “Little House” family, the state of the real family in frontier America was always under threat, whether from hunger, disease, violence, lack of justice and a great many other dangers. Frontier Americans did not sit around their scenic campfires, laughing joyfully about how wonderful it was to live off the grid. They prayed nightly that civilization and government would reach them, along with all the amenities they bring: doctors, teachers, police, and yes, even lawyers.
This is why, time after time, civilized people reject the hokey myth of the frontier utopia. This is why we reject the myth that a decentralized, weak federal government is what this country needs.
Because real people who live in the real world understand that only a big government can provide the services that run this country. There’s nothing leftist, liberal, or socialist about that. This is just practical. If you want to have the “luxury” of police protection, the “luxury” of having a hospital that can treat your disease, the “luxury” of a legal system that can protect your rights and properties, and the “luxury” of public transportation, then someone has got to pay for it.
If you really believe that a small government is the way to go, there are plenty of countries in Asia and Africa that you can move to that have very small to non-existant federal governments. I’m sure Sudan would love to have you immigrate. You can have a great time living out your isolationist frontier fantasies.
Apr 10, 2009 - 7:18 am 19. RE:Pastor of Muppets:
Traditional values are only a myth inside your little insulated bubble.
You need a big dose of intellectual diversity, dude.
Apr 10, 2009 - 7:48 am 20. elvis:#18 Children were poorly educated because there were no schools. People were frequently the victims of crime and violence because often times there was no police protection because the nearest Marshall was a week’s ride away.
A sense of history? This is happening in every city in this country…… and who is running these cities? Dems like you.
That muppet guy is so lame.
Apr 10, 2009 - 8:02 am 21. Pastor of Muppets:elvis: “A sense of history? This is happening in every city in this country…… and who is running these cities? Dems like you.”
Sounds like someone watches too much Fox News.
Apr 10, 2009 - 8:19 am 22. ricpic:Show up at your local tea party on April 15. That’s step one.
Apr 10, 2009 - 8:25 am 23. AThinkingPerson:Lovely British newspaper article about President Obama aptly titled…”President Pantywaist”
We’re not alone. The rest of the world awakens to the US nightmare….
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/gerald_warner/blog/2009/04/10/barack_obama_president_pantywaist__new_surrender_monkey_on_the_block
Apr 10, 2009 - 8:33 am 24. scott:When Reagan was president we had rafts of college kids thinking conservative. Now we have rafts of people under 30 who have no idea and can not articulate the difference between conservatism and socialism. You know, like George W Bush.
Apr 10, 2009 - 8:39 am 25. scott:Until we have leaders that can literally preach conservatism with evangelistic fervor, from a thousand pulpits, EFFECTIVELY …. we will never get back power and influence in this land.
(I also have a plan to raise the Titanic.)
Apr 10, 2009 - 8:42 am 26. AThinkingPerson:Pastor of Muppets is a text book example of a liberal. His assertion that people were poorly educated due to lack of schools. What? People educated their own children back in the day if necessary. Typical liberal waiting for the government to come save him. Second, his statement that people were the victims of crime because the Marshall’s were a day’s ride away. What? People were armed back in the day. They protected what was theirs and provided justice on the spot. Typical liberal waiting around with his/her thumb up their kazoo waiting for the government to take care of them. Explains our current President being called on to provide a nanny state for all of the liberal babies. Not an ounce of self reliance whatsoever.
FYI…. I didn’t get that off of FOX news. I thought that up myself! You might try that Pastor of Muppets (don’t worry, Obama says it’s okay. I think.)
Apr 10, 2009 - 8:45 am 27. AThinkingPerson:#24 scott…. You must be one of those people on a “raft” adrift in the nothingness that is Obama’s plan for America. You know, like Lenin.
Apr 10, 2009 - 8:47 am 28. Bear:Pastor: did you say something? Or do you just like to hear yourself pontificate? Your post is a collection of gibberish.
Apr 10, 2009 - 8:50 am 29. Bilgeman:Ms. Meister:
All the grass-roots organizing in the world will do you no good at all if the Party establishment chooses to ignore the rubes and do whatever it wants to.
This is what happened with the McCain candidacy…utterly moribund until he reached out to social and cultural conservatives by using Governor Palin as a sop.
It ain’t about whether the rank and file “get it”…it’s about whether the GOP hierarchy gets it.
Until they do, they can play from the Minority side of the aisle, which nowadays means making mewling and puking noises while the Alleged Hawaiian, Senator Greid, and Speaker Pigsugly piece off their constituencies from the public purse.
Apr 10, 2009 - 8:50 am 30. Bilgeman:#18 PoM:
“They were not at all like “Little House”. In the frontier days, people died constantly from diseases that could not be treated because there were no doctors or hospitals. Children were poorly educated because there were no schools. People were frequently the victims of crime and violence because often times there was no police protection because the nearest Marshall was a week’s ride away. And many a time did a cattle rustler, highwayman or outlaw get away with his crime as a result.”
Y’know, ace, this sounds a lot more like the Democrat bastions of urban America in the 1990’s and 2000’s than Wichita or Albuquerqe in the 1890’s.(Just cahnge cattle rustlers and highwaymen to car-jackers and stick-up artists).
In fact, it’s a pretty good description of the state senatorial district that the the fellow who claims to have been born in Hawaii used to represent.
Apr 10, 2009 - 8:56 am 31. Kathryn:(1) We need REAGAN CONSERVATIVES, not weak and conciliatory Republicans who are quick to throw Conservatism overboard.
(2) We must, as Ronald Reagan felt, reform the Republican party, not start a new one, because why re-invent the wheel when we just need a new engine.
————-
List of Reagan Conservative principles and a petition demanding Republicans adhere to it:
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/we-demand-true-conservative-leadership.html
Apr 10, 2009 - 9:12 am 32. Tmouser:I dunno, maybe Muppets guy is right. I mean, our government is bigger than ever and we’re safer, more prosperous and happier than ever. Right?
Apr 10, 2009 - 9:20 am 33. seymour:I must admit, when I was 20 years old working feverishly on behalf of the McGovern Campaign, I too thought Republicans/Conservatives were going by way of the dinosaur but quicker. It was obvious. We we’re having 40-50 demonstrations per day, one per university with not a peep from the right with all events covered by the MSM. This was revolution time.
This same dynamic presented itself during our campaigning for Jimmy Carter. The Pugs were history. We kicked thier collective asses but let’s draw back the curtain here to the truth….
1) McGovern won one state in the General Election when we, his supporters and the MSM predicted a Republican wipeout of astronomical proportions. One that would not be survivable by the right.
2) By the time Jimmy Carter ran for POTUS, the nation wanted every republican’s head on a stick including republicans. I campaigned for Jimmy Carter using my job as a platform and we won, or so I thought. Two years after Carter got elected I noticed my own client base dwindling and by the time Carter left office I had to leave mine.
The first lesson here is: Republicans will always be around regardless of circumstance and they will always surprise the hell out of everyone including themselves at the strangest of times. I’ve seen this too many times and if their was something that could have been done about it, we would have. We had the muscle, logistics and footprint in “72”.
The second lesson here is: Don’t use your job or profession as a poltical platform unless you plan to run yourself or you enjoy the challenge and expense of changing careers.
The third lesson here is: If you listen and follow the political persuasion of anyone younger than 30 years old, you deserve exactly what you get. Trust me when I say it takes that extra lap around the political track to shed among other self imploding like devices such as dreamland ideology, thinking that a political party is so good as to remain in power longer than a two term limit. Won’t happen.
So, you can’t push a river or string. If anyone tells you that either party is done and over? Run like hell.
If anyone tells you that the policies of one administration cannot be turned around on a dime by the next? Run like hell.
Now that’s 50 years of political activism and experience folks but don’t listen to me. I didn’t when others were telling me the truth which at the time I thought complete and unadulterated BS. As such I wasted a good four complete years of my life.
Apr 10, 2009 - 9:45 am 34. Steve W:If the CHristian right would just shut up for five seconds, we’d have a chance. They completely screwed us with their stupid veggie Schiavo grandstanding and now we’re stuck with Obama because moderates figured out they dislike Jesus-government getting in their business more than they dislike liberals getting into their wallets.
Abortion isn’t going to be outlawed. Get over it and let’s salvage what we can.
Apr 10, 2009 - 9:50 am 35. Sherab Zangpo:#25 SCOTT
You wrote:
“Until we have leaders that can literally preach conservatism with evangelistic fervor, from a thousand pulpits, EFFECTIVELY …. we will never get back power and influence in this land.
(I also have a plan to raise the Titanic.)”
Titanic aside (LOL !), I agree 200%.
And we must CONTINUOUSLY ask ourselves: WHY IS THAT ?
And with that question I mean: WHICH ALIEN VALUES HAVE “PASSED” into our minds ?
And with this question I mean: WHICH PARTS OF THE BLIND FAITH IN THE NOTHING typical of the NIHILISTS have become a new and horrifying “common sense” ?
The reason why the “leaders” don’t fight with the passion that you mention can only be that they are half-convinced.
We need leaders who are not POLLUTED by ANY amount/dose/shot of nihilism.
We need Leaders who are not scared of DIVIDING the Country FOR THE SAKE of its unity, who are not scared of calling commie a commie, traitor a traitor.
Many of today’s “leaders” are convinced that if you have Principles and Values you are a “fanatic”, and they can’t see that the most monstrous kind of fanatics are now in control of the Congress, of the Administration, and soon will control the Supreme Court.
Only TRUE Leaders will unify the People, the Nation, against the crawling totalitarianism that is infecting the Country.
And let’s not invent new names, totalitarianism is totalitarianism, not “statism”.
Thank you for the opportunity to comment.
Apr 10, 2009 - 9:52 am 36. gordo:It comes down to two things: pain and leadership. We Americans have spoiled ourselves and our children and we don’t want to let go of all the luxuries and our materialistic way of life. Because we have been so wealthy we haven’t concerned ourselves with basic truths that sustain us, such as fiscal responsibility, moral responsibility, discipline, etc. Now we are paying the piper and the pain caused by our excesses is setting in and its scary. Well, pain and fear are motivating forces, so those that don’t like where we are heading are now more likely to stand up and say enough. This is beginning to happen hence articles like the one we are commenting on. These motivations are also becoming a bond to those of us who are worried about the future but are generally individualistic in our approach to life.
So, we are setting the stage for change we can sustain. Its going to be a bloody fight. The left will cling to its gains and will have to be smashed not finessed. Which brings me to the second point, leadership.
The conservative/libertarian movement has no leaders. I mean real leaders. Charismatic, visionary, fire-breathing, take no prisoners leadership. When that person steps up and grabs the mantle of revolutionary fervor, then those of us who are worried and concerned about the future will have someone to support and fight with. And this leader will lead from the front and not be worried about his or her well-being.
Apr 10, 2009 - 9:53 am 37. AThinkingPerson:#33 seymour… Well said.
Apr 10, 2009 - 9:59 am 38. LittleRed1:At the risk of troll feeding, I’d like to mention that it was not just on the frontiers (wherever those were) that people were dying because of diseases and lack of medical care. Cholera, yellow fever and other epidemics swept urban areas through the early 20th century (and later, outside the US and northern Europe). It was not larger government that prevented later epidemics, but individual research, engineering developments that led to improved sanitation (which was, I admit, implemented by state and local governments), and joint public-private efforts at immunization and research funding.
Apr 10, 2009 - 10:35 am 39. Pastor of Muppets:And kleptocracy (Zimbabwe et al) or sharia (Sudan) may be minimal governments (aside from the totalitarian aspects of sharia), but they are most definently not minimal federal government with a rule of law, which is what the vast majority of conservatives and libertarians desire.
LittleRed1: “It was not larger government that prevented later epidemics, but individual research, engineering developments that led to improved sanitation (which was, I admit, implemented by state and local governments), and joint public-private efforts at immunization and research funding. And kleptocracy (Zimbabwe et al) or sharia (Sudan) may be minimal governments (aside from the totalitarian aspects of sharia), but they are most definently not minimal federal government with a rule of law, which is what the vast majority of conservatives and libertarians desire.”
Firstly, thanks for feeding me.
Secondly, you admit yourself that the cures and treatments for many of the diseases we face have come from “joint public-private efforts at immunization and research funding”, but what you conspicuously fail to admit is that all this was made possible by federal funding. Without federal funds, there is no research, and therefore, no cure. You think some independent “John Galt” scientist is going to cure cancer in his garage? Sorry, but not happening.
Finally, I beg you to show me a real-world example of a modern country that enjoys a minimal federal government and a functioning rule of law.
Apr 10, 2009 - 11:31 am 40. Delia:With unity comes strength in numbers.
I’ve made many new conservative friends from just commenting on this website and other conservative blogs and I plan on making many more.
The libtard trolls here will never shut down our voices, that is for sure.
Stand strong and walk tall, TRUE Americans. The fat lady hasn’t sung yet and we’ve got plenty of ammo both literally and figuratively.
The idiots who wanted to sell their souls to Socialism will rue the day they bent over and grabbed their ankles for lies upon lies from an idiotic, giggling, teleprompter reliant, muslim bowing/scraping, “uh-er-uhm-er-uh” NOT so eloquent speaking thug.
Apr 10, 2009 - 11:44 am 41. Bilgeman:#39 PoM:
“Finally, I beg you to show me a real-world example of a modern country that enjoys a minimal federal government and a functioning rule of law.”
Italy.
It’s had how many different governments since the end of World War Two, and yet enjoyed one of the greatest increases in the standards of living in the western world.
Apr 10, 2009 - 12:58 pm 42. Noesis Noeseos:re #39: Early public health efforts were state affairs, not federal affairs; they involved mostly quarantines, an exercise of the police power. These implemented the results of research that occurred mostly at private universities such as Harvard, which in the early 20th century did not receive federal funding. In the cases that the research occurred in the federal government, it was associated with the military (malaria research in Cuba and the Philippines).
I think we can all benefit by a dialing back of the rhetoric. While purist libertarians advocate a government that attends only to defense against force and fraud, conservatives see a place for government attention to roads and other infrastructure that serve the citizen as citizen. There is also a place for objective regulation that is rationally related to common concerns, such as the regulation of drugs for safety. What is odious to conservatives is the whole project of entitlement, the notion that government exists in order to redistribute wealth from one faction to another, as well as all the intrusive apparatus of a dog-eat-dog socialistic state.
Apr 10, 2009 - 1:24 pm 43. Steve Seivers:Pam, somewhere between Puritanism and the Pioneer spirit lays the American character. But something has changed. Just like in the movie “Shane” the prairie is changing. With 300 million people sharing in technology, urban environments and a fast paced lifestyle our “John Wayne” character is changing into a “Bill Gates” one.
Apr 10, 2009 - 2:38 pm 44. elvis:For conservatism to prosper it may have to reflect the times and the character of our nation. We have fiscal conservatives, religious conservatives, social conservatives and just plain conservatives. How do they relate to a nation that can see the universe through a Hubble telescope? Promoting topics like creationism and anti-science doctrines seems to be against the trend of a nation that is planning its first manned launch to Jupiter.
Conservative can unite but the message must reflect what we see and hear.
Actually Muppet boy
I’ve lived all over the country….
what a lame answer …
So lets’s see Detroit schools have how much of a dropout rate… a city run by dems for how long?
I’ll let you look up these stats muppet boy if you can.
p.s muppet boy… i haven’t had TV in 15 years. I actually can read.
Apr 10, 2009 - 3:33 pm 45. DennisR:We conservatives ARE getting organized. We will follow up the TEA parties with a visit to D.C. Details at http://pushbackuntil.com.
Apr 10, 2009 - 3:51 pm 46. one of my own:Lost and soon to be alone, the last true conservatives gather in the dark digital basement of modern life. For all their slogans and self-righteous indignation, they can’t muster public support for their victimhood. The world has changed and left them behind. And as with all people who come to understand too late that principles exist to serve people not replace them, they are left to defend each other from themselves. They bought into the rhetorical circus act of their party leaders who have since taken the gate money and run. Now they sit in a dilapidated tent waiting for a geriatric elephant to do just one more trick, but he’s not got it in him. Tea Party signs litter the ground. Toothless men and glandular women bark orders to the kids, “Go get me more nachos.” Ah, life in the cultural gulag of conservatism. You asked for it, now you got it.
Apr 10, 2009 - 4:26 pm 47. Larry G:43. Steve Stevier “Just like in the movie “Shane” the prairie is changing.”
Yeah, and those of the “Pastor of Muppets” mindset are trying their best to turn it into “Brokeback Mountain.”
Apr 10, 2009 - 4:46 pm 48. Bilgeman:#46 oomo/ooyo/oo-ever:
Y’know, there’s so much “Projection” in that comment of yours that I can actually smell the buttered popcorn out in the theatre lobby.
Apr 10, 2009 - 4:51 pm 49. Larry G:In case you saw a pattern in some of the troll talking points on these comment boards, tell me how many of these you recognize:
1) Tell “them” that their political beliefs have been banished to the Southern White Christian male (aka “evil oppressors”) constituency, now and forever
Apr 10, 2009 - 5:20 pm 50. one of my own:2) When Obama does anything remotely embarrassing or possibly open to criticism, be sure to include a Bush reference of some sort (The “Blame Bush” meme has still not jumped the shark on teh interwebs)
3) You guys are a bunch of _____ (Choose from the following: “racist”, “bigot”, “sexist”, or “religious fanatic aka Christian”)
4) We will destroy the “Tea Party (please use “Bag” in lieu of the word “Party”)” movement with our intense cloak and dagger/effective Code Pink tactics
5) Ignore the decline in the stock market index numbers at all costs since November 5 (if in a pinch, refer to rule number 3)
6) These posts are being monitored and those that use them with the most effective results will get a shot at writing for the “Daily Show” or possibly for the “TOTUS
48. Bilgeman: . . . Is that you Glory Boy? I can’t see you but your voice sounds familiar. Wow! How cutting. Why didn’t you just say, “I know you are but what am I?”
I suggest you FULLY wake up next time before you post such thoughtless drivel.
Apr 10, 2009 - 5:39 pm 51. one of my own:49. Larry G: OK, this is gonna be too easy, but here goes anyway . . .
In case you saw a pattern in some of the troll talking points on these comment boards, tell me how many of these you recognize:
1) Tell “them” that their political beliefs have been banished to the HOLLYWOOD (aka “LIBERALS) constituency, now and forever
2) When BUSH does anything remotely embarrassing or possibly open to criticism, be sure to include a CLINTON reference of some sort (The BLOWJOB meme has still not jumped the shark on teh interwebs)
3) You guys are a bunch of _____ (Choose from the following: “SOCIALISTS”, “BABY KILLERS”, or “GODLESS CHRISTIAN HATERS”)
4) We will destroy the ANTIWAR MOVEMENT (please use “DIRTBAG” in lieu of the word “PROTESTOR”)” movement with our intense cloak and dagger/effective TEA PARTY tactics
5) Ignore the decline in the ECONOMY at all costs since DECEMBER 2007 (if in a pinch, refer to rule number 3)
6) These posts are being monitored and those that use them with the most effective results will get a shot at writing for the “HANNITY’S AMERICA” or possibly for the “FOX NEWS SUNDAY”
So what does it all get ya? A back seat in the ride forward, that’s what. Enjoy it back there.
Apr 10, 2009 - 6:09 pm 52. AThinkingPerson:#49 Larry G… Spot on! It’s pretty pathetic when the behavior of a liberal loon is so predictable. The sad part is that they’ve thrown around the racist term so much it has lost much of it’s meaning.
Apr 10, 2009 - 6:15 pm 53. elvis:is one of my own drunk??
Apr 10, 2009 - 6:25 pm 54. Rich:what???
really find some computer games to play with.
#41:
ITALY? You mean, universal healthcare/free-education-for-all Italy?
Apr 10, 2009 - 6:41 pm 55. Bilgeman:#50 oomo/ooyo/oo-ever:
“can’t see you but your voice sounds familiar.”
I’m sure that’s an occupational hazard for a guy like you. You don’t see much except for the wall of the stall with the hole cut in it that you’re kneeling in front of, do you?
“I suggest you FULLY wake up next time before you post such thoughtless drivel.”
Look, pal, I’m just sittin’ on the can two stalls down, reading a newspaper, and using the facilities properly.
Do you think you can keep those gagging, retching, spitting and gargling sounds down to a polite volume?
It’s disgusting, see?
Apr 10, 2009 - 6:42 pm 56. Larry G:51. one of my own
Thanks for your response. I liked your Bizzaro world response, it was entertaining (really!) but in all fairness, I find your last line:
“So what does it all get ya? A back seat in the ride forward, that’s what. Enjoy it back there.”
…kinda goes back to Talking Point 1 in the list so it sorta kinda little bit proves my point.
But since we are having an adult dialogue here (I will presume) – besides your opposition to “wingnuts”, why do you come here? I can say that your mission appears to be to demoralize the “opposition”, but what can you present to people who might be convinced to approve of your implied argument (massive tax increases to pay for Obama’s special interest payoffs)? There may be lurkers here that are looking for something to convince them, mind you, and you have the fortune of being allowed to post despite your constant snarkiness, unlike Daily Kos or DU (or other places) that censor opposing content.
What positions do you really support against these Tea Parties that are convincing? It appears that you are on constant “troll attack mode” when I see your posts. If you really respect honest political debate on an “enemy” forum, then please present your points fairly, but if not then don’t expect to be seen as more than a trolling opposition opinion. Hey, you do what you want, just sayin’ is all….
Apr 10, 2009 - 7:18 pm 57. Juvenal:The troll’s notion that frontier children were ignorant because they didn’t have government schools to enlighten them is the biggest howler I’ve seen so far this year.
And this notion of his he presents as a blanket statement. SOME frontier children grew up uneducated, because their parents were. Those that were educated were so because their parents took time out from the daily struggle of survival to teach them themselves.
There’s no denying that life on the frontier was always hard and sometimes brutal and tragic. But do people like this guy ever ask themselves why did those people move out to defenseless places where they had to make and do everything themselves? Has his puny, slavish, conformist mind ever entertained some curiosity about WHY they would put up with this kind of life in the first place?
Is it not because they wanted something of their own, instead of something they would be beholden to someone else for? Because they wanted to do for themselves, and not be dependent on one patron or another–government or otherwise–to take care of their basic needs?
Apr 10, 2009 - 7:18 pm 58. Larry G:To narrow the argument, I would like to say that my statement:
(massive tax increases to pay for Obama’s special interest payoffs)
refers to the fund provided to the unions, NEA and groups like ACORN. Also, the appointment of La Raza activists to high level “Homeland Security” positions and overseeing “immigration reform” panels.
You can call me on that, but please address the recent policy moves that can be attributed to those facts. Thanks.
Apr 10, 2009 - 7:23 pm 59. Bilgeman:#54 Rich:
“You mean, universal healthcare/free-education-for-all Italy?”
Yeah…that Italy…you know of another?
The chalenge by PoM was to name a modern country, (I assume he meant with inddor plumbing and moderately reliable electricity), with a minmal government and rule of law.
Whether they have universal health care and free edumacation or not wasn’t part of the equation.
And ny the way, Canada, and Australia would fit that profile also.
I don’t know if anyone lies awake nights worrying about the tyrannically imperialist expansionist schemes being hatched in Ottawa or Canberra, (even if they SHOULD stay up and worry), and yet the two remain pretty decent joints by most accounts.
Japan would qualify also, with kooky governments that come and go at least as rapidly as Italy’s. I’m not sure if it’s fair to the others to lump the Japanese in with the rest though, since, culturally-speaking,(and I say this with all the love and respect for them in the world), they’re all crazier than a pack of shaved rats in an empty oil drum.
Apr 10, 2009 - 7:44 pm 60. Benson:I say to fight this power grab will take the effort of all people who are against it. All people. We can’t weed out people because they aren’t conservative enough. We can weed out when we vote at the ballot box but for this fight we need every like minded person who wants to join.
Apr 10, 2009 - 8:45 pm 61. Bear:Tea parties are a beginning and I hope millions show up for these but if that doesn’t do the damage we’re hoping for we need to starve the beast. They can’t arrest 52 million plus Americans for not paying them the blood money they seek. Let the Obama lovers, hollywood elite, sycophant media, trolls and Soros pay for the communist utopia they long for. We can watch it crumble just like Detroit under Dem control. We’ll come in after and pick up the pieces and put it back together again under the U.S. Constitution that’s been to long ignored.
I like to read the comments here to get POV from others…when I read ‘one of my own’ and others, I’m wondering how to get those wasted minutes of my life back.
Apr 10, 2009 - 9:17 pm 62. Gene Lalor:The first–and last–bastion of American conservatism is our Christianity, and Obama made a huge step toward dismantling that bulwark when he “dissed” our Christianity–in Muslim Turkey, of all places!
I suggest President Barrack Hussein Obama speaks only for himself when he outlandishly declared on April 6th that, “We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation.” Ironically or intentionally dropping that bombshell at the start of the Christian Holy Week, Obama chose his audience well, Turkish Muslims.
If he wanted to re-kindle the widespread rumors that circulated during the campaign that he was a closet Muslim, he couldn’t have picked a better venue than Turkey which has a long-established history of discriminating against Christians and even, in the instance of Armenian Christians, attempting to obliterate them from the face of the Earth.
The Turks must have found great consolation in an American president visiting their country and effectively renouncing America’s Christian heritage following his obsequious bowing to the Muslim King Abdullah.
Had the circumstances been reversed and a professed Muslim-American president renounced Islam in the bowels of the Islamic world, Secret Service or no, Obama could have met the fate of other apostates and been beheaded.
That rumor of his Muslim allegiance had sufficient substance last summer and fall to force Obama-ites to devote much valuable time to refute and condemn it as an absurdity. Whether he and they protesteth too much still remains to be determined.
What is irrefutable is that his heritage and background were distinctly Islamic. His late mother is reputed to have been an atheist, an atheist who happened to marry not one but two Muslim men. Other influences in his life, his African relatives in Kenya as well as his father’s Islamic roots, his years spent in Muslim Indonesia, his Muslim roomies in college, point to the possibility that America’s new leader had more than a smidgen of the Q’uran in his blood.
(Please see “Election 2008: Muslim Smoke and Fire,” http://www.genelalor.com/blog1/?p=605.)
Personally, despite all that and despite his middle name which he insisted on using at his inauguration, I don’t believe Barack Hussein Obama is a Muslim. More likely, he is an atheist like his mother and, as such, is an ungodly man by definition. Professed atheists and “ungodly” candidates don’t usually sit very well with the American electorate, however, so Barack needed a base which he found with the radical minister, Jeremiah Wright.
So he sat, religiously, in his pew for 20 years at the Wright’s Trinity United Church of Christ–NOT of Allah–and was married by and had his two girls christened by that good reverend. Those facts were offered as proof that Obama was a good, practicing Christian. All they really proved was that he could sit in that pew and swallow Wright’s anti-American rants for two decades and he reinforced his agreement with Wright’s philosophy by allowing him to officiate at his wedding and at the christenings of his kids.
It also didn’t hurt a profoundly ambitious man to create the illusion in the minds of his future constituents that, one, he was not a Muslim and, two, that he was a devoted Christian. As fallen-away as many Americans are today, they still like to think our leaders go to church, a Christian church, in our (approximately) 77% Christian and (approximately) 0.5% Islamic nation.
I would refer the reader to Warner Todd Huston’s article, “What Are We If Not a Christian Nation?” at http://www.americanconservativedaily.com/2009/04/what-are-we-if-not-a-christian-nation/, which elucidates the American-Christian “connection” far better than I ever could. I’m tired of beating the dead horse proffered by those who deny America’s, and our Founding Fathers’ essential Christianity.
What I firmly believe happened at Obama’s Turkey stop was that, with or without his trusty teleprompter, our president voiced a seminal belief, or wish, that America is no longer a Christian nation, if it ever was. That belief, or wish, affords him the intellectual license to continue on his amoral, irreligious path, to change us into an atheistic society which he can mold according to his preferences.
May God forgive him and may God forgive all of us if we let him get away with it.
(http://genelalor.com/)
Apr 10, 2009 - 9:39 pm 63. Libby:Conservatives really, really need to focus on conservative politics and individual freedoms.
Like Cynthia, mentioned in the article, I am a lesbian, and conservative. I am also a Christian.
Conservatives hurt the cause when we start trying to narrow down everyone into our own category of acceptable belief.
There is nothing about me that makes me any less of a conservative than any other person who would vote for anyone but Obama. I was totally able to see problems in electing the Trojan Horse Obama long before most people I know.
In my work place and in my family, I am the only conservative, gay, Christian who voted for McCain. There were a few others who voted for people other than Obama who were conservative, heterosexual, and non-christian or a few Christian.
The majority 70% of the people I know, who voted for Obama, are heterosexual, liberal/progressive, and most consider themselves Christians. Then there are the others who considered themselves conservative but didn’t do their homework.
Conservatives are not only Christians. Conservatives are not only heterosexual.
Conservatives are conservatives that share certain beliefs:
We believe in individual responsibility, the ability to work and make decisions for our own lives, the right to keep and spend our money as we choose, and the right to support our government to do what it was entitled to do under the Constitution.
When I vote it is for a government that I can support.
Most of the people who voted for Obama had no idea what they were voting for but a heck of a lot of them thought that they were going to get money and a free ride from Obama.
True conservatives knew that was not possible.
I really hope that true conservatives will chose to join together without splintering among ourselves based on anything else.
NJ cannot get rid of Corzine soon enough for the sake of this drowning state, and I would love to see the U.S. impeach Obama and his puppet Biden, Reid, and Pelosi.
In the meantime, Tea Partys and 2010 elections will have to do.
Apr 10, 2009 - 10:36 pm 64. Richard Cook:Libby that is why we will never unite. Conservative, Lesbian and……Christian. Hey…wait a minute.
Apr 10, 2009 - 11:39 pm 65. Bilgeman:#63 Libby:
“Like Cynthia, mentioned in the article, I am a lesbian, and conservative. I am also a Christian.
Conservatives hurt the cause when we start trying to narrow down everyone into our own category of acceptable belief.”
Didn’t you just categorize yourself?
Just sayin’…
Apr 11, 2009 - 6:28 am 66. Anonymous:Pastor of Muppets wARNING
BEWARE OF THIS “PASTOR OF MUPPETS”, THIS IS ONE OF THOSE TROLLS TRAINED BY THE OBAMA CAMPAIGN TO DISRUPT CONSERVATIVE POSTS, NOTICE HE DOES HERE EVERYWHERE
Apr 11, 2009 - 7:04 am 67. David S:@62. Gene Lalor:
You are wrong. Obama speaks for myself as well as many others when he declares that the USA is not a Christian nation. It never has been.
There is nothing in Obama’s biography to indicate that his broad exposure to world culture has reduced his ability to faithfully execute the office of the President. I’m glad we have a President with more than a superficial understanding of the Muslim world.
Then stop trying to argue that the Founders were essentially Christian. They weren’t.
“It is the duty of every true Deist to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible.” – Thomas Paine
“The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves…these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ.” – Thomas Jefferson
“This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!” – John Adams
“Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.” – James Madison
Obama is correct to assert and defend the notion that America is not, and never has been, a Christian nation. We should be proud of our noble secular history. Denying our rational roots will only lead to disaster.
Peace.
DS
Apr 11, 2009 - 7:14 am 68. DennisR:Our response: http://pushbackuntil.com
If we do not do something to rescue our country, no one else will. Certainly not an irresponsible, uncontrolled, and undisciplined Congress. Because they are the ones pushing us closer and closer to bankruptcy. So will we stand around and watch? Or will we do something about it? I, for one, choose to do something about it.
Push Back Until!
Apr 11, 2009 - 12:29 pm 69. Libby:A conservative voter is a conservative voter, no matter what.
Apr 12, 2009 - 1:32 am 70. mac:David S.
Here’s a little something for you to chew on. It’s a quote from George Washington’s Farewell Address.
“Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in Courts of Justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.”
Yes, they were Christian. Some of them were Deists, but with a strong underpinning of Christianity.
Just another typical lie from David S., a typical lying lefty bastard who wouldn’t recognize the truth if if came up and bit him.
Note for PJM: an “ignore” feature allowing one to dispense with the trolls on this board would certainly make for a great improvement.
Apr 12, 2009 - 5:51 am 71. Derek:You go from “they were christian” to “some of them were deists” to “with strong underpinnings of christianity” (which would make for a pointless deism and a very heretical form of christianity) all in the same sentence, but David S is the liar?
But that’s beyond the point. The idea that america is defined by the majority is antithetical to the concept of America. Our founding motto is “out of many, one” not “out of many, a majority”
Apr 12, 2009 - 6:47 am 72. David S:@70. mac:
Your quote from Washington does not mention Christ, Christianity or God. The Founders were deists, who understood that the Bible is not the literal word of God, and understood the “God of Nature” to be the creator of all things.
Pretending that our nation was founded by Christians does not make it so. I’ve quoted a number of the founders above, who clearly are not believers in Christianity.
The revisionist tendency to remake the founders as Christians is a disservice to our history and culture. The USA is a secular nation, and has been so since it was founded.
Peace.
DS
PS – You don’t want to ignore me – you’d miss having someone to disparage.
Apr 12, 2009 - 6:49 am 73. Blackshoe:#67 David S: “…stop trying to argue that the Founders were essentially Christian. They weren’t.”
Lets deal in fact. (For the sake of this argument, I’ll accept the broad comments on the Wikipedia regarding our Founders as “facts”).
For background, 55 delegates drafted the 1787 Constitutional convention, 39 of which signed the actual document.
“The 55 delegates who drafted the Constitution included most of the outstanding leaders, or Founding Fathers, of the new nation. Thomas Jefferson, who was in France during the convention, characterized the delegates as an assembly of “demi-gods.”[1]” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Convention
“Lambert (2003) has examined the religious affiliations and beliefs of the Founders. Some of the 1787 delegates had no affiliation. The others were Protestants except for three Roman Catholics: C. Carroll, D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons. Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Church of England (Episcopalian, after the Revolutionary War was won), eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists, the total number being 49. Some of the more prominent Founding Fathers were anti-clerical or vocal about their opposition to organized religion, such as Thomas Jefferson[10][11] (who created the “Jefferson Bible”), and Benjamin Franklin[12]. However, other notable founders, such as Patrick Henry, were strong proponents of traditional religion. Several of the Founding Fathers considered themselves to be deists or held beliefs very similar to that of deists.[13]
Apr 12, 2009 - 12:20 pm 74. venividivici:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founding_Fathers_of_the_United_States
With all due respect to the Christians who are within the conservative fold, the law of the land is the Constitution, so everyone needs to work together to preserve that.
As far as uniting and fighting, I hate, hate, hate politics and politicians, find the whole pomp and circumstance of the state mind-numbingly boring and think everyone enamored of the state is boring as well and needs to have their head examined. I’m a businessman and I can’t stand any of these idiots telling me what I can and can’t do, other than within a very basic framework of contracts and property rights.
The only reason I pay so much attention to it is because those a**holes have power. I’ve never volunteered for anything political before the 2008 campaign, when I made some calls on McCain’s behalf because I hated Obama even more than the average level of hate I have toward every politician. I also will be attending the Tea Party in my city.
Apr 12, 2009 - 7:56 pm 75. Oscar the Grump:There is a problem within the conservative camp that is respecting other people and their point of view. The camp is divided by the religious and nonreligious, pro lifers vs women’s choice, rich vs poor, and bigots vs nonbigots.
I remember being a poll worker for the Republican party (for Pres. Ford). Then somebody cracked a Jew joke and I realized how really welcome I was. I spent the next 40 years being a good Democrat. That was forty years on working against the Republican party. It was Clinton who made me realize where my heart really was, and I became a Republican again. To my surprise I found other Jewish Republicans and that our numbers were steadily increasing. Jews used to vote 95% Democrat. Now its down to 80% and the number keeps dwindling. The more Orthodox side with the Republican party.
My feeling is that Obama will eventually alienate the Jews. If we can recruit another thirty percent, the Jewish vote will be a push. The money balance will go along with its vote.
We need to educate the minorities that will listen, bring in Hispanics, Blacks and any other group out there. We can’t afford to sit back and let things happen. How does a conservative ACORN sound we could call it POPCORN.
Apr 13, 2009 - 9:02 pm 76. Air2air:I agree with many here that Jesus did not run for office. Let’s keep religion out of politics completely, and get rid of the #1 thorn in the side of Repubs and Conservatives.
Apr 17, 2009 - 5:41 pm