U.S. Health Care Debate Feeds Anti-Americanism in Europe (Part I)
The biggest constituency for Obama’s health care reform appears to be in Europe, not America.
Europeans have dedicated saturation media coverage to the debate over reforming the American health care system. Some of the coverage has provided useful insights into the diverging attitudes between Europeans and Americans on the issue of health care.
But the health care debate has also provided rich fodder for European opinion-shapers, ever on the lookout for new reasons to bash America. Even with Barack Obama in the White House, European newspaper headlines suggest that anti-Americanism is as alive and well as ever in Europe, even if some surveys say things are improving.
European press coverage of the American health care debate has tended heavily toward the sensational, and the United States has often been portrayed as a third-world medical wasteland in comparison to the European socialist utopia of health, happiness, and longevity for all. Not surprisingly, European political and media elites have seized on the debate in an effort to reassure weary European taxpayers of the superiority of the European social and economic model.
Media from across Europe have dispatched reporters to the far corners of the United States to scout out the worst deficiencies of the U.S. health care system; these have often been presented as being the norm across the country. European journalists have also played fast and loose with statistics in order to magnify the problems out of proportion.
For example, a common mantra has been that 45 million Americans do not have access to health care. From a European perspective, that is an astonishing number because it is more than the population of most European countries. But in the American context, 45 million constitutes around 15 percent of the population.
British media have produced some of the most exaggerated European reporting about that state of the American health care system. And the left-wing Guardian, one of the most influential newspapers in British society, is virtually without peers when it comes to anti-American bias.
The Guardian, like many of its European counterparts, has perfected the art of presenting statistics in a way that portray the United States as a developing country. A typical Guardian news article reads: “According to government figures, life expectancy for [American] women is lower than in Albania and infant mortality is higher than Cuba. This national disgrace conceals a regional outrage. Black infant mortality in Louisiana is on a par with Sri Lanka; in the very city where the reforms will be decided, Washington, D.C., life expectancy is lower than the Gaza Strip.”
The Guardian dispatched one of its reporters to the United States to “recreate” John Steinbeck’s The Grapes of Wrath in order “to reveal life in the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.” In an article titled “From Dust to Bust, America’s Poor Take on a New Type of Monster,” the Guardian reports: “To travel the old road [Route 66] today — stumbling across crumbling ghost towns and half-abandoned communities, across the sprawling Native American desert reservations, through cities where people work all the hours they aren’t sleeping and still cannot afford to go to the doctor — is to encounter new despair. … For those who fall off the juggernaut of American capitalism, or who fail to find space on it in the first place, there are considerable challenges in a land with an inherent suspicion of people in need.”
In another “exposé,” the Guardian sent one of its reporters to Quindaro, Kansas, “to see how the poorest survive.” The article titled “Dying for affordable healthcare — the uninsured speak” reads: “Obama’s attempts to extend health care to all Americans has stalled in the face of a sustained right-wing guerrilla attack. … She [Sharon Lee, a doctor in Kansas City] rattles off a litany of horror stories. There was the man who walked into the clinic with a brain tumour. It took Lee three months to get him an MRI scan and another two to get an appointment with a neurosurgeon. Or the patient whose nerves in his neck were pushed against his spinal cord so that he lost use of both arms; by the time Lee found a way of getting him an MRI he was so sick he had to be operated on immediately. Or the woman who had such heavy periods she would wind up in ER every three months requiring a blood transfusion. What she really needed was a hysterectomy. … These are the stories, the broken lives, that have been obscured by the fury generated by the Republican rump.”
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Soeren Kern is Senior Analyst for Transatlantic Relations at the Madrid-based Grupo de Estudios Estratégicos / Strategic Studies Group.
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55 Comments
1. view from afar:This is very well said, documented, and most important so true, thank you for writing it. The people are so assisted and the kool aid is supported on how awful the US is healthcare wise.
Oct 10, 2009 - 1:13 am 2. Michael:I live in France and previously grew up and lived in Minnesota. People here think that because I am an American, I idolize the healthcare here. I don’t, there are some good things but there are in my opinion many more bad things. The top salaried people get superb healthcare and the bottom, farmers and such get healthcare, sure, but not what the top level gets, they can’t afford it (but they pay for it). On top of that everyone pays the same percentage amount, a percentage of their income, which is a heavier charge for those who earn less, than for those at the top end of the scale (example: 15% of 10000 euros is heavier for the poor, than 15% of 10000 euros is for a better paid person). Plus you need top up insurance (out of your own pocket) to be fully reimbursed (sp?), or have full dental eyeglasses, or orthodontics.
With all this in mind, when I go into the pharmacy to fill a perscription, I get the following types of comments from the pharmacists: “Oh how happy you must be with our system! It is so much better than yours is.” Of course my lukewarm response leaves them in shock, but I truly don’t see alot of difference in the two systems, outside of the fact that price controls and the lack of silly lawsuits on meds keep those things reasonable priced. The doctors aren’t any better or any worse, but aren’t enough of them in practice, my family doctor was explaining this to me-they all want 9 to 5 jobs so work in companies or for the government. But that is another story.
You are as obsessed with the Guardian as they are with you. The Guardian is losing money hand over fist and is only kept afloat by the fact that its parent group is avoiding tax by being overseas. They speak for a very small number of Britons; unfortunately they also control the BBC.
Oct 10, 2009 - 1:35 am 3. vb:Soeren,
This is a fantastic description that answers the oft-posed question, “Why do they hate us?” The Guardian may offer a higher concentration of such pictures of America, but they are found throughout the European media. In TV talk rounds, there will always be at least one person who refers to similar stories about America. I have even seen a wanna-be young “actress” who spent few months in Hollywood trying to get a job asked about her informed view of America. Naturally, in her eyes we are all superficial, materialist, and uncaring about the poor. In a just world, she would have been cast as Abigail Adams, I suppose.
There is a method to all of this: By putting America under a microscope, Europeans avoid looking at problems in their own neighborhood and politicians are kept from scrutiny. How long were the European ghettoes (excuse me, bannlieu and what have you) ignored, while pompous intellectuals occupied themselves describing American racism? Many may have even read a scholarly book by the likes of Henry Gates or something by Toni Morrison. We should bow before such experts. After many, many years in Europe, I have come to see the shaky foundations of its intellectual conventional wisdom and I have reached the Rhett Butler stage: frankly I don’t give a damn what they say.
Oct 10, 2009 - 1:44 am 4. arhooley:I suppose when we throw out the Democrat majority in Congress and legally and peacefully turn out our awful President, the vitriol (or vitrioul, or vitriole) will pour down thicker than ever. Wouldn’t it be nice if European leaders who get along with our leaders would take a little time to educate their citizens about America’s history in Europe in the 20th and 21st centuries?
Meanwhile, don’t forget “Nobel Shock shows America oblivious to its reign of terror” by Daily Kos diarist “Nashville fan.”
Oct 10, 2009 - 1:52 am 5. Mary Jackson:the leftwing Guardian, one of the most influential newspapers in British society…
I didn’t bother reading beyond this point, becaus that is such obvious nonsense. The Guardian has a tiny circulation and is losing money.
Oct 10, 2009 - 3:54 am 6. hdgreene:For example, a common mantra has been that 45 million Americans do not have access to health care. From a European perspective, that is an astonishing number because it is more than the population of most European countries. But in the American context, 45 million constitutes around 15 percent of the population.
Soren, those 45 million have access to health care, they just don’t have insurance. They include illegal aliens (when President Obama dropped them from the count it went down closer to 30 million) and many, many more who could afford a “major medical plan” — if the politicians didn’t keep mandating expensive new coverage as favor to special interests (drug rehab and counseling sessions, for instance). In fact millions of the number have a high income and for whatever reason, don’t buy insurance. Other millions in the number actually qualify for Medicaid or Medicare or other government programs and have not signed up.
Oct 10, 2009 - 4:50 am 7. Paul B:Mary Jackson,
“The Guardian has a tiny circulation and is losing money…”
In terms of Internet traffic, the Guardian ranks number one. According to Nielsen/Net Ratings, the Guardian online is consistently the top newspaper in Britain.
In terms of hardcopy newspaper circulation, the Guardian ranks number four out of more than 100 newspapers in Britain.
Oct 10, 2009 - 5:25 am 8. Poor Citizen:I have to agree with you and folks like VB to a point. However, America is the biggest ape in the forest, so getting hit by the most coconuts should be expected. Although, Europe and the rest of the world cannot understand why we talk our health care system up and tear theirs down when its American health care that is such a shambles. What Europe does not understand that, like with guns, big corporations have spent hundreds of millions of dollars buying politicians and convincing some in America that ours is the best system. All they skip over…is the truth. Republicans and some Dems have spent years in denial and finally….finally have admitted the truth this year. Will real reform happen? probably not, but we are now closer than ever to beginning to confront the truth. As for Europe, they are jealous of most everything American, with the exception of health care.
Oct 10, 2009 - 5:35 am 9. Marie Claude:view from afar,
farmers and such get healthcare, sure, but not what the top level gets, they can’t afford it (but they pay for it)
my dear view, my parents had farms, and I know about the multi social insurances that are available for farmers, and their costs, for having used different ones.
Farmers have what we call “Mutuelle agricole”, and its contribution was/is collected each 3 months on a forecasted incomes forfeit.
I am actually under the “trader” (commerçants) regime, which is called RSI, (something alike Securité Sociale, while my hubby benefits of SS, and as being married I could also be protected by his insurance.
Now, the differences of reimbursement aren’t significant, all systems are under the official evaluation of SS, some medicines are subjected to
0% (confort), 15%, 30%, 60%, 70%, 95% or finally 100% (grave illnesses when your case necessits intensive cares). Though these percentages have nothing to be related with your illness level, or seriousness, this is to suggest your doctor to rather prescribe “generic” medicines counterparts which costs have been amortized, and which have fallen in public domain, and can be reproducted by any medicine enterprise without paying any right.
Now, as I believe I had already told you, the real differences of reimbursement lie in the the fact of if you have a second private insurance, which complete the social insurance, could also be called “Mutuelles”, or whatever name of big insurors, the same as for your house, or materials and or cars. So this second insurance is nonentheless less expensive than a SS contribution for the same time, but there are also different levels of reimbursement too, depends if you pays for the most expensive’s, which reimburse all what your social insurance doesn’t, a 2nd possibility, this insurance reimburse you 95% of the SS lacks, a third, that complete your charges for surgeries, glasses, dentists… there are many possibilities that can be forecasted, depends on your age, on your family (children, their ages, their schools…)on your health (if you need care for a special handicapt…) and what kind of reimbursement you prefer, for every day benign illnesses, or for more serious cares.
But people who misuse the most (or benefit the most) of the social system are administrative people, in their work rules it is forecasted that they are allowed to take a month off duty for a “supposed” illness cause, wether they are really ill or not, so this the thing that most of these industrious and zealous persons don’t forget to take.
Otherwise, a new rule has been added lately, for persons who have ill schooled children, and if both parents work, one of them is allowed to stay home to take care of his/her child, and gets reimbursed from SS at 50% for his/her missing working hours
And yes, the reports on TV about american health cares focuse more on people that are excluded of the system, who can’t afford an insurance, mostly among black and hispanic populations, but there weren’t any “bashing”, so, the thing is are these reports lying or not ???
Oct 10, 2009 - 5:55 am 10. Dave M.:Who cares if they hate us. Why do we feel the need for their approval? The United States is where the rest of the world comes in order to get away from the rest of the world. Why then would we want to be like the rest of the world?
Oct 10, 2009 - 5:58 am 11. Marie Claude:View from afar
The doctors aren’t any better or any worse, but aren’t enough of them in practice,
Doctor prefer confortable offices in cities where population is more numerous, where they are sure of getting enough custommers to make a life worth of earning. But they even went to be too numerous in cities too, some , the less famous, or skilled, have a low average of gains. Because we are still free to choose our medics.
Being a doctor in countryside, means that you have to work longer than in cities, because of the kilometers for driving to a ill custommer place, also because the countryside people are taken for less refined as in the cities…
Though life in countryside is quieter than in cities
Oct 10, 2009 - 6:39 am 12. patrick sarsfield:ditto to hdgreen, everybody has access to health care. Even including illegal immigrants, MOST of that 45 million *chooses* not to carry health insurance because their health care costs are typically so low that they take the calculated risk of needing to pay out of pocket for something.
Oct 10, 2009 - 7:17 am 13. Michael:If one looks long enough and hard enough tragedy can always be found. Easily as much can be found in the European style health care as American.
What seems to disturb liberals and Europeans are the American ideals of personal responsibility and self sufficiency. Another leg of those ideals is charity. It was always good and moral to give to those down on their luck. It had also always been that it was rather shameful if one wasn’t disabled in some manner to have to receive charity. A person worked as hard as possible to again be self sufficient.
Europeans should not be too disturbed by the traditional American values however. Those values are eroding at an ever accelerating pace. During the great depression the government had to come up with work projects to give money to people because they wouldn’t take hand outs. Now we have welfare recipients to the 3rd and 4th generation in families.
As far as corporations pushing in the arena of guns you ought to look at the American Constitution. It isn’t a corporation thing, it is a Constitutional thing. It is there for the protection of the individual and a defense against domestic totalitarians. If Americans don’t like it they can amend the Constitution. Until then it is part of the supreme law of the land and trumps all federal, state and local laws.
Oct 10, 2009 - 7:26 am 14. hoads:The Euro-socialists herald their healthcare systems even as deficits are piling up and outcomes decline. Much like Obama’s Nobel was an indictment of America’s presumably undeserved historical preeminence in the world and a vote of confidence for Obama’s statist path for us, our healthcare system is a target of the euro-socialists precisely because it is the exception to the rule compared to the healthcare systems of the rest of the world.
Just replace Obama’s “we can’t just continue to drive our SUVs and expect the rest of the world to be okay with that” with “we can’t continue to demand the most expensive high tech healthcare in the world when the rest of the world has learned to quell their selfish demands for the common good”. Obamacare is about aligning our healthcare system with the rest of the world where individuals take a back seat to the budget line items of the state.
Oct 10, 2009 - 8:09 am 15. wildman:Soooo, the euro’s hate us because we don’t do things the way they want or approve of. Sorry about that. The majority of us here in the US left Europe because we wanted a better life for ourselves. If we had wanted to remain yoked to the class, royalty and elite system you folks have, we would have stayed in Europe. What really burns the liberal elite in Europe is that we, the great unwashed, the dispossessed and unwanted came here and made a life and civilization for ourselves without the noble tutelage of our betters in Europe. I believe that we, as Americans, have given far too much in blood and treasure to be lectured by the Europeans on anything.
Oct 10, 2009 - 8:13 am 16. goy:As far as health care goes, apples-to-oranges comparisons to European systems are simply a red herring.
We already have ample history here in the States regarding the failed attempts to socialize medicine. This Congress and this administration simply refuses to acknowledge the reality, so the focus is directed toward irrelevant thesis.
Similarly, they refuse to acknowledge the failure of social engineering with respect to handing out property that is unearned.
Morally these people are bankrupt, but intellectually and ideologically, it’s crystal clear that they know exactly what they’re doing. All of this will lead to the breakdown and complete decline of the U.S.A. in every way that matters, which is exactly what the transnational progressives among us want – at least based on their actions.
Oct 10, 2009 - 8:19 am 17. Byron Dickens:It really bothers me when these idiots say that 45 million Americans do not have access to health care. That is an absolute bald-faced LIE. The number of Americans who do not have health insurance may be debatable, but what isn’t is the fact that if you show up at the hospital you WILL get treated.
Oct 10, 2009 - 8:30 am 18. rbell:Love England but the people are totally brainwashed by the media there. As far as most Brits know the US still has segregated water fountains and homeless people dying of hunger. We are all supporting the IRA and big business is still exploiting women and children. Our country is run by our military generals and George Bush has taken millions of dollars in bribes from big oil companies.
In England they love to hate the US. To them Ronald Reagan was our worst President and most Southern whites carry BIBLES AND GUNS TO CHURCH each Sunday. Their faith in what the media tells them is almost child like. Global warming is a reality and the UN is our only hope for world peace. Everywhere you go in England you see Diversity signs and cameras spying on the people. It is like living in Maryland. Their health care system provides mothers with free milk after every birth. What a country. Let’s hope mom does not need a mammogram anytime soon. No wonder authors from England could write books like 1984 and Brave New World. They knew what was ahead.
Once a great nation they are now little more than a Muslim outpost spewing anti-American propaganda and TV program with homosexual themes. Visit it while you still can. If you go don’t miss Stratford-upon-Avon and Christ College in Oxford. That is where they filmed Harry Potter. Brides Chapel on Fleet street is very interesting little place. Just down the street from St Paul’s. Try to buy some good English shoes, if you can afford it.
Oct 10, 2009 - 8:39 am 19. Mary Jackson:Circulation figures, Jan 09, per Audit Bureau of circulations:
The Sun: 3,146,006
Daily Mail: 2,200,398
Daily Mirror: 1,366,891
Daily Telegraph: 783,210
Daily Star: 768,534
Daily express: 736,340
The Times: 617,483
Financial Times: 426,676
The Guardian: 358,844
So, although only one tenth as many read The Guardian as the sun, and although there are 60 million people in Britain, do carry on thinking that every single one of us reads the Guradian, and, more to the point, believes every word in it.
I could believe that every single American believes what is written in the New York Times or spoken by Michael Moore. But I’m not that stupid.
Oct 10, 2009 - 8:46 am 20. mags:I work in the N.H.S, for the passed couple months we have been called evil,that we have death squads,Teddy Kennedy would not of been treated because is age.
And the if Stephen Hawkins had been born in the U.K we would of killed him at birth.
Some believe we have enforced abortion’s.
There is not a huge movement here to implant our N.H.S in the U.S.
Nobody cares what health system you have.It is O.K for us to moan about ours but if anyone else does we go hysterial.
This is because it is widely supported through political,cultural and social groups.
Poster here on this site are not interested in learning more about how the N.H.S is funded,what is covered,why we keep it ,waiting times,choice ,i could go on and on.
It wasn’t just the Guardian that was reporting on this,
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/the-brutal-truth-about-americarsquos-healthcare-1772580.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/janice_turner/article6797001.ece
http://www.thesun.co.uk/discussions/posts/list/American_Politicians_Attack_NHS-213478.page
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1213783/UKs-doctors-write-letter-U-S-politicians-battle-lies-NHS.html
8. Poor Citizen:
As for Europe, they are jealous of most everything American, with the exception of health care.
What? Please tell me you are joking?
Oct 10, 2009 - 8:57 am 21. biblio44:“But the health care debate has also provided rich fodder for European opinion-shapers, ever on the lookout for new reasons to bash America.”
Death-panelers … gun-toting tea-baggers …. A bashing well deserved!
Oct 10, 2009 - 9:27 am 22. Anonymous:As far as most Brits know the US still has segregated water fountains and homeless people dying of hunger….bla bla bla…
And it’s so awful to make fatuous, sweeping, unsubstantiated generalisations, isn’t it?
Once a great nation they are now little more than a Muslim outpost spewing anti-American propaganda and TV program with homosexual themes….
Isn’t it?
Oct 10, 2009 - 9:37 am 23. Michael:Thank you Mary Jackson! The reason the Guardian has such a high online readership is Comment is Free. There, hundreds of bloggers line up to shoot down the prats who write columns for the Guardian.
As I said before, their influence is based on control of the BBC by people who think as they do – the GRC – Guardian Reading Classes. PJ has one of them writing here – Ms Gould.
Oct 10, 2009 - 9:46 am 24. don:I’m curious, when America is the mirror image of expensive European decadence and social welfare spending with a military that only exists on paper for domestic parades and charades, once again the immoral equal of all others, who’s going to come to the actual defense of those moral pacific Europeans when the Russian bear growls? With no more marines and air craft carrier battle groups, who provides the Tsunami relief assistance to, say, Indonesia Muslims on the warpath or protects the world’s sea lanes over which oil is transported? Samantha Power’s unarmed NGO’s? And although Iran and North Korea will never volunteer to do so, does nuclear disarmament and the American president’s dreams of ending the era of weapons of mass destruction only mean the epochal return of mass armies? Speaking of armies, the American military was racially integrated almost over night during the Korean occupation, which certainly can’t be said about the media educational industrial complex, while years later the consumers of free higher state education sat out the occupations of Vietnam and Cambodia while doing blood drives for the enemy. So after those neo liberals enjoy the grand tour of Europe, taking in the the high culture, I’m to believe they are going to volunteer for a draft to save gay Paris from the Muslims? Michael Moore hasn’t shown up yet to stop the genocide in the Sudan now, and that good capitalist film maker could certainly afford it. American Express, never leave home without it.
Oct 10, 2009 - 9:58 am 25. Marie Claude:Don,
check if “some” Europeans are so weak :
http://bit.ly/wLbRn uh pirats had a bad surprise while attacking
do you have soldiers on your merchand ships ?
as far as “muslims”, see how they behave by us :
http://tr.im/BjPW “Gay soccer game to be played, Islamic convictions not so strong after all”
Oct 10, 2009 - 10:56 am 26. Anonymous:#20
Oct 10, 2009 - 10:57 am 27. venividivici:I especially liked the first article. What wasn’t said was most if not all of those patients were indigent or illegal. And, shocker!, it was free! California, the greater LA area has a LOT of homeless and illegal people. But even you, a brit, can walk into any ER in the US and get treatment.
If our government can’t run the current incarnation of healthcare(medicare)then why in the world should we trust it with something bigger?
A bashing well deserved!
I can think of something else which deserves a bashing. Your head. But, by the stupidity of your comments, I see someone’s already taken care of that little task.
Oct 10, 2009 - 11:17 am 28. Poor Citizen:No 18 rbell,
You are quite correct, except you forgot to mention taxes. Britain even has a tax on taxes. You are taxed from the time you are born, until long after you die. They even tax airwaves your taxed because you have a car, every year and you have to pay for an inspection (about a grand) to the mechanics to pass the test…and then they take movies of you while you are driving. And as far as what mags says about the NHS. Its a great system if you have a year or two to wait for an operation. And do not bother driving to the hospital, there is no parking…. and if there is, it will cost you a fortune. And other than the nursing staff (its hard to understand them and they are usually on break)… its a great system.
Oct 10, 2009 - 11:18 am 29. Blackwater:To be expected. All of the Western world has been totally taken over by the far left. As left wing as America has become it’s still a fringe far right wing country compared to the rest of the Western world. And we’re also by far the wealthiest, the most free and the most powerful country in the world as a direct result of our right wing princibles and values. Keep in mind that these European leftists are also the same brainwashed and ignorant morons who think genetically modifying food should be banned (despite all scientific research proving it’s perfectly safe), they think the death penalty is never justified and is barbaric (despite it being clearly justified in cases of murder), they think handing over 60%+ of their income in taxes is a wonderful concept and the idea of their neighbor owning a knife or gun terrorfies them and fills them with anxiety to the point of causing random panic attacks. I don’t necessarily blame the average European for their anti-American views since they’re being brainwashed by their leftist media. But I do seriously question the motivations and judegemnt of their intellectual elites who are shaping public opinion. What sense does it make to demonize a country that was founded on and is the biggest supporter of enlightenment era values? Are those values and beliefs not the peak of human development and civilization? Obviously not in the minds of modern leftists. The left has adopted and fostered a brand new ideology which is an unholy mix of enlightenment era values and backwards marxism that exploits identity based tribalism based on class, gender, sexual orientation, religion and ethnicity for guilting and demonizing everything and anyone who stands in their way.
Oct 10, 2009 - 11:28 am 30. Michael:Poor citizen.
The cost of the MOT inspection of your car (which only starts when it is 3 years old) is £44. About $60. Which will give bloggers something to use when thinking about the rest of what you say. Mostly, of course, you are just totally stupidly wrong!
Oct 10, 2009 - 12:08 pm 31. EscapeVelocity:The Western Left will be finished in a decade or 2. It remains to be seen how much damage they can do to Western Civilization(beyond what they have already done) between now and then…but either way, they will be totally discredited and humiliated, afraid to mouth their vapid worldview in public.
Oct 10, 2009 - 12:51 pm 32. tom:ahhh… the truth. so painful to so many around here.
Oct 10, 2009 - 1:15 pm 33. Poor Citizen:Oh and the Guardian…most Brits leave school at 16 so obviously, they cant even read. No wonder they robotically say whatever “the sun” preaches to them. So that is why they invented a paper or two just for them, one is the sun..average article length about 4 sentences with no words over 5 letters. And for those that are really smart, they get the “news of the world” which is another intellectual powerhouse, with headlines like “Girl, 15 wonders if there is life on Mars”. No wonder a half million choose to emigrate every year, with another 2 million cuing up…(they cue up for everything by the way).
Oct 10, 2009 - 1:58 pm 34. 48 laws of power:cab driver in paris to me: your country is terrible and needs to change.
me to cab driver: nobody cares what you think.
cab driver: you should care.
me: why?
why indeed. why do we care what other countries think about anything, let alone health care…… fact is we are broke, and can not afford any more mandates at all.
Oct 10, 2009 - 3:38 pm 35. Mary Jackson:cuing up
If only I’d had the benefit of an American education…
Oct 10, 2009 - 4:14 pm 36. Paul B:Mary Jackson,
From your list, The Sun, Daily Mail, Daily Mirror, Daily Star and Daily Express are all tabloids. They are not serious newspapers, nor does anyone consider them as such.
Comparing the Guardian to The Sun as you do is rather silly and intellectually dishonest too.
Among the top tier newspapers in Britain, the Guardian ranks fourth.
Oct 10, 2009 - 4:50 pm 37. Marie Claude:34, laws of power hmmm
A Parisian taxi took an American in his car.
The client asked in a broken french :
- Take me for a tour to the most beautiful places of Paris where I could take nice pictures !
The driver took off, and stopped just in front of the Louvre. As usual he does to tourists, he explained to the American why it was built, when, what can be found in there … And the client asks a single question:
- How long it took you to build it?
- Hmmm, hundreds of years, of course !
- HAHAHA! Ridiculous! In the U.S., we would do it in just one month, with our technology.
The taximan, carried on their trip, a little nervous, but in silent. They arrived at the Arc de Triomphe. The American still ask him the same question:
- How long did it take you to built it?
- Humm … Thirty years from 1806 to …
- HAHAHA! Pitiful! With us, in the USA, we will have finished this little thing in just a few days! HAHA!
The cab remained quiet and didn’t respond until they arrive at the Eiffel Tower, stopped didn’t even give the name of the monument, neiter explained anything of its history, but waiting for the next question of his client.
Oct 10, 2009 - 5:18 pm 38. SukieTawdry:- And that, what’s that?
- That, there? I dunno It wasn’t there yesterday!
Seems like many across the pond would like to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs of medical/pharmaceutical innovation and R&D. Just like many would like to kill the goose whose golden eggs have kept them safe and secure for over 50 years. Almost makes you want them to get what they wish for.
A question, though: why does the Guardian care so deeply about the state of the American health care delivery system?
Oct 10, 2009 - 5:43 pm 39. Anonymous:Among the top tier newspapers in Britain, the Guardian ranks fourth.
Er, yes. Because there are four top tier newspapers in Britain, namely Telegraph, Times, FT and Guardian. In other words, among the serious news papers it is…. bottom. The tabloids are more popular than the serious newspapers in Britain as anywhere else, but that is a different argument.
Even if it were top, rather than bottom among the four serious newspapers, it is still way, way below the most popular paper in Britain, being one tenth as popular. Yet the writer’s argument, and that of many commenters here, is that it is representative of the British people.
How I wish I had had the benefit of an American education so that I could make illiterate and innumerate and illogical comments too.
Oct 10, 2009 - 6:14 pm 40. Mary Jackson:Among the top tier newspapers in Britain, the Guardian ranks fourth.
Er..yes. That’s because there are four top tier newspapers: Telegraph, Times, FT and Guardian. So the Guardian is … bottom. All the serious newspapers are less popular than the tabloids, but that is a separate argument.
The Guardian is bottom of the four serious newspapers and one tenth as popular as the most popular newspapers. Yet it is the writer’s contention, supported by commenters here, that it is representative of the British people. (It’s circulation is about 0.5% of the population, so thats nearly everyone, isn’t it?)
I wish I had the benefit of an American education, so that I too could make illiterate, innumerate and illogical generalisations of this nature.
Oct 10, 2009 - 6:20 pm 41. EscapeVelocity:Are you the Mary Jackson that writes for The Iconoclast – New English Review?
If so I enjoy reading your blog posts.
The Gaurdian is the Leftwing Newpaper of the UK. While there is plenty of Anti Americanism to go around, the Leftwing variety is particularly nasty, blinkered, and malicious. As I said elsewhere it often dovetails nicely into other forms of Anti Americanism in Europe. But the nationalism and rivalry that is inherent in the other variety is rather healthy…the Leftwing variety is destructive, as the Western Left is a destructive force in the world with regards to Western Civilization.
Oct 10, 2009 - 6:58 pm 42. George Bruce:I fear for both Europe and the US. Europe may be closer to the abyss, but only by a step or two.
Oct 10, 2009 - 7:55 pm 43. Ruebacca:It is my dream that when Sarah Palin gets elected our free loaders jump in boats and head for Cuba. But that would require them to take initiative and that wont happen. The reality is I pay taxes so democrats can buy votes.
ohh my doctor is an old Englishman by the way. He makes fun of my German name. :I
Oct 10, 2009 - 10:43 pm 44. Richard:Misery loves company.
Oct 10, 2009 - 10:50 pm 45. pelaut:#1 View from Afar:
You are absolutely right and true in what you report.
I lived and worked in Europe 10 years, 5 in Sweden, 5 in France.
What you say now holds true for the time I was there.
Eurotrash hate Americans because they can no longer publicly hate Jews.
BTW, not one person that needs medical attention, citizen or not, gets turned away in US hospitals (by law). I was turned away from two hospitals in London while seeking emergency attention for a friend who cut off her thumb. They were the wrong TYPE of hospitals for thumbs. True Story!
I was also turned away from two clinics in Sweden while seeking treatment for my son with a compound leg fracture. Why? I hadn’t got the prerequisite forms from “Fröken” at my regional “lazarette”. True Story.
In both cases any American hospital would have bundled us up in an ambulance and done what was necessary to get the injured to the proper place.
Many Euros are like street Arabs. They hate Americans out of jealousy. The ones that don’t hate us already emmigrated, but they’re finding out the America they were jealous of has become worse than Old Europe.
Oct 11, 2009 - 6:29 am 46. Marie Claude:“Eurotrash hate Americans because they can no longer publicly hate Jews.”
how ya goin there ? aren’t you abusing of the amalgams use ?
“Many Euros are like street Arabs. They hate Americans out of jealousy. The ones that don’t hate us already emmigrated, but they’re finding out the America they were jealous of has become worse than Old Europe”
Again generalisation out of amalgamism !
I notice that you didn’t gave a french exemple for trashing our medical healthcare
again you ought to mistrust amalgams !
now, I bet that the american hospital in Paris wasn’t in your mind !
Oct 11, 2009 - 8:29 am 47. Michael:The only reason a hospital in the UK would turn away someone who had cut off her thumb would because not all hospitals have accident & emergency facilities. The presence or otherwise of A&E is clearly signposted. They would direct you to a suitable hospital. If you had lopped off your head they would take holding action. Although in your case it probably wouldn’t matter!
This is the sort of story you hear from prats. It corresponds with the similar story line of UK prats – the first thing a US hospital does is ask for your credit card.
Oct 11, 2009 - 9:39 am 48. dr strangelove:…do we really care what the euros think?
Oct 11, 2009 - 3:50 pm 49. Michael Lonie:“The only reason a hospital in the UK would turn away someone who had cut off her thumb would because not all hospitals have accident & emergency facilities.”
I never heard of or saw a hospital in the USA that did not have an emergency room, even in small rural communities (Okanagan, Washington for example, where I was treated once). Is this an example of the nationalized health service not making sufficient investments in equipment and training in skills to provide necessary services? Perhaps like the mothers in labor being turned down for maternity beds we hear about in Canada, because there are not any open ones left in the whole of British Columbia? Or the lack of MRI machines there?
Oct 11, 2009 - 8:05 pm 50. michael:When I dislocated and fractured my right shoulder last year I was first taken to a hospital 3 miles away, which had a minor injuries unit. They xrayed me and patched me up and shipped me to the nearest A&E who relocated my shoulder for me. If I had been further away from the minor injuries unit, then it is quite likely that the local air ambulance would have come for me. In urban areas it makes sense to concentrate A&E facilities at one hospital.
And to dr strangelove (good film with a BRITISH lead actor), no reason why you should care what “euros” think. Nor why we should particularly worry about what Americans think.
Oct 11, 2009 - 11:58 pm 51. pelaut:Marie-Claude:
Oct 12, 2009 - 6:04 am 52. misanthropicus:no, I never went to the American Hospital in France, didn’t even know there was one. Pasteur, Pitié — yeah. Don’t really have any disparagement about French medicine, but that was a long time ago. I’m sure you’ve ruined it now like everybody else (incl. Americans).
The Guardian views are extreme and they represent the views of a small, yet alas! very vocal category of British and other left-wing Europeans. As far the rest of the various populations there, the views of America are rather positive and I don’t think that one can find that many Portuguese, Danes, Poles or Greeks really consumed by the health care issues in the USA, as the Guardian editorial board seems to absurdly be obsessed of (Madonna’s Papp smear topping anything anywhere in the world, of course).
The problem is that the US is in a unique cultural position in the world – it is considered a sort of “public cultural property” on which Europeans (and not only they) for generations have projected their aspirations or resents, and this sense of “cultural ownership” warrants anyone to issue opinions critical on anything American, from shoes to JFK to beer to whatever -
One of the funniest illustrations of this I found in an interview with Lars von Tiers (hey, we got a friend here!) who, when asked why or whether he is anti-American, he bitterly burst in a tirade: “I AM AN AMERICAN! I speak English [sic!], I wear jeans, I smoke Lucky Strike, I drink whisky [sic!], I don’t know who a prime minister in Danemak is, but I know most of the US senators, I eat hamburgers, most of things I see on TV come or happen in America, I… etc., etc.”
Cultural hegemony like America’s in the past century does inspire resent -
Oct 12, 2009 - 1:49 pm 53. misanthropicus:Oh, by the way – while I don’t trust polls in cultural matters, I read them with curiosity. A few months ago the BBC came with a ranking of nations’ qualities according to their “abroad” manifestations, as seen by hotel/travel workers across the world, and the ranking as curteous/ generous/ positive was the following (larger nations):
1) Japanese are the most liked, invariably polite, understanding, reserved and patient -
2) Germans on the second place,
3) Americans,
4) other,
… and to the bottom, way after the British (the Manchester Utd. problem), the most obnoxious, miser and constantly acting up, and taking offense are…
Oct 12, 2009 - 2:05 pm 54. oldguy:… sorry, Marie Claude, but from Sankt Petersburg to Lisboa to Osaka to Buenos Aires, the French have the worst reputation of all, soundly beating even the early 1990-s wave of Russian petro-millionares (scourge of Davos and St. Morritz) -
I don’t know what the average foreign citizen thinks of Americans, but I can tell you what the average citizen in America thinks of foreign countries. Never again will we allow our leaders to save you. From Korea up to today, I think the average citizen has had enough of “pulling your chestnuts out of the fire”.
Oct 13, 2009 - 6:59 am 55. Marie Claude:Misanthropicus, but your source is anglo-saxon of course :devil:
Now, I tell ya who are the worst from a french point of view : The Brits, the Germans, the Americans, the Italians, in between, the French… and bottom line, the spanish.
Believe-me, I’m a professional
Oct 13, 2009 - 10:16 am