U.S. Health Care Debate Feeds Anti-Americanism in Europe (Part II)
Obama's global popularity hasn't reversed the tide of anti-Americanism that so vexed his predecessor.
In Britain, the left-wing Independent is baffled that Americans are getting “so steamed up over so abstruse a subject [health care].” In a conspiracy-laden article titled “The right-wing crackpots taking over the mainstream,” the paper claims the real reason why many Americans are opposed to universal health care is because Obama is black. “For the first time, the detested federal government is run by a black man. A struggling economy fuels discontent, with illegal immigrants accused of stealing American jobs. The military, long a breeding ground of the far right, is sending home veterans in vast numbers. Finally there is the internet, which simultaneously propagates and intensifies the feelings of true believers — and the conspiracy theories they devour.”
The Independent continues: “The U.S. has always had a taste for conspiracy theories, but rarely as now. The place is awash with them. … Now it’s a huge leap from public health care meetings and intricate discussion of a government-run option to challenge private insurers, to militiamen in remote training camps honing skills needed to survive the ‘New World Order.’ … But common threads link them: a suspicion and fear of anything that smacks of bigger government, and a sense that the American way no longer has all the answers.”
In keeping with the racism theme, another Independent article titled “Republicans, religion and the triumph of unreason” says: “Here’s what’s actually happening. The U.S. is the only major industrialized country that does not provide regular health care to all its citizens. Instead, they are required to provide for themselves — and 50 million people can’t afford the insurance. As a result, 18,000 U.S. citizens die every year needlessly, because they can’t access the care they require. That’s equivalent to six 9/11s, every year, year on year.”
The Independent continues: “Yet the Republicans have accused the Democrats who are trying to stop all this death by extending health care of being ‘killers.’ … How do they train themselves to be so impervious to reality? It begins, I suspect, with religion. They are taught from a young age that it is good to have ‘faith’ — which is, by definition, a belief without any evidence to back it up. … Indeed, they are taught that faith is the highest aspiration and most noble cause. Is it any surprise this then percolates into their political views? Faith-based thinking spreads and contaminates the rational. … This kind of mania can’t be co-opted: it can only be overruled.”
In Germany, the center-right Die Welt, in a commentary titled “Marxism à la Groucho,” mocks Americans for resisting universal health care. “Even admirers of the United States often wonder why the most globalized country in the world is so insular and irrational on some issues. We [Europeans] scratch our heads when we hear about America’s gun control laws. We were surprised by President Bush’s anti-science views, reflected in his attitude toward climate change and the evolutionary theory of Darwin. Resistance to health care causes consternation in a similar manner. We know that America’s health care system — despite the great wealth of the country and its pioneering medical research — is pathetic. … But still, President Obama’s attempts to push health care reform are facing hysterical resistance. It would introduce Soviet Communism. Communism? Or simply better, cheaper, more reliable health care for all? The rational voice of reason has a difficult time in the U.S. Perhaps it is no coincidence that Groucho Marx was an American.”
In another article titled “Dirty Fight against Obama’s Reform,” Die Welt writes: “Death threats, grave markers for democrats, insults, with swastikas and SS runes: The debate over the health care reform promoted by Barack Obama takes on hysterical traits. The Republicans have opted for a dirty fight.” The paper wonders if demonstrators have “been bought,” presumably by the neocons. Elsewhere Die Welt says: “America’s racism is even older than its skepticism of big government.”
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Soeren Kern is Senior Analyst for Transatlantic Relations at the Madrid-based Grupo de Estudios Estratégicos / Strategic Studies Group.
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35 Comments
1. Mary Jackson:Actually this stuff and nonsense about opposition to Obama’s health plans being “racist” didn’t start in Europe – Jimmy Carter said it.
Oct 12, 2009 - 2:31 am 2. Steven:Actually, the constant diggs at European health systems is causing animosity.
Oct 12, 2009 - 4:57 am 3. gboisjo:If this country can send billions of dollars everywhere in the world to help people I don’t give two shts about why can’t we afford free healthcare for our own. I have no love for Europeans, they rank only one or two notches above Muslims in my book however some of there criticisms in regard to our present day healthcare system rings true.
Oct 12, 2009 - 5:33 am 4. Dave:“why can’t we afford free healthcare for our own.”
If you think that socialized health care anywhere is free, you are sadly mistaken. They pay in massive taxes, rationing of care, a lack of freedom in the form of very few choices, and fewer opportunities.
If Europeans want to keep their system, that is up to them. But I am tired of this notion that America needs to be more like them. We are a different people with a different culture. We value freedom and the role of personal responsibility. We, by and large, feel the individual should not be reduced to being a serf to the state. Its why we left in the first place.
Oct 12, 2009 - 6:46 am 5. pelaut:David Axelrod? Take another look at him. Wasn’t he on the Kremlin wall on many MayDays past?
Anyone who lived and could read in the 40s-50s can see the Daily Worker hulking in the press in Europe AND here.
They write of right-wing conspiracies — that’s their conspiracy.
They write of hate speech in hateful phrases.
They write with snide sneers and jeers to humor their smug True Believer readers . Think Maureen Dowd.
The litany of periodicals and their headlines that you give us prove it’s way late.
Oct 12, 2009 - 6:48 am 6. ahem:We used to call Past Prologue. Call the Present Parody — of the tyranny to come.
Everything feeds anti-Americanism.Ever watch TV in a foreign airport? The only channels they get feature a steady barrage of anti-Americanism. It is one of our biggest–most successful–exports.
Oct 12, 2009 - 7:42 am 7. view from a far:You are right Mary jackson, but EUropeans are running with it…
Oct 12, 2009 - 9:14 am 8. David S:Gboisjo, no one has free haelthcare, as Dave N°4 points out…here in France we pay massive taxes, and then pay top up insurance to complete what isn’t covered…I just made eye doctor appointments for my kids and my husband, the appoints are in March of 2010.
Dave you are so absolutely right, I think that the Europeans hope to tap into the American wealth to continue their lifestyle. I sometimes wonder if Manifest Destiny ( the idea that the rest of the world exists to support the Europeans )is really dead. Ok, that last bit is intentionally sarcastic…
Faith-based thinking spreads and contaminates the rational. … This kind of mania can’t be co-opted: it can only be overruled.
Unfortunately, this observation on conservative “thought” is far too prescient. The GOP continues to lose credibility because it divorces itself from the fact-based community. Until the Republican establishment can distance itself from the religious right, prospects are poor for a rational wing to emerge from this party.
It is really funny that the author claims that these European sentiments are “anti-american”. They are no such thing – they are anti-crackpot. They value rational, fact-based policies that support the health and well-being of human beings. The GOP values irrational, faith-based policies that support the health and well being of corporations. Calling the Europeans anti-American is an insult to both Europe and America.
The GOP does not represent American values or American virtues – that is why Europe heaps scorn upon this ridiculous rump.
Peace.
DS
Oct 12, 2009 - 9:19 am 9. Chris in Dallas:European comments suggesting that resistance to a federal takeover of the health care system in the U.S. are motivated by racism are generated by their own racism, because that is precisely how they would respond to a black leader. America has come a long way since slavery and Jim Crow. We haven’t solved all of our race problems, but we don’t sweep them under the rug they way they do in Europe. The fact is that Europe is now a far more racist place than the U.S.
The bottom line is that America elected a black leader; something that Europe didn’t think was possible. This too is silly since anyone who follows politics can tell you that in 2000 all Colin Powell would have had to do was ask to be President and he would have run away with the election. The only reason that Bush ran in 2000 was that Powell bowed out of the race. Americans don’t care what your race is if you can demonstrate ability and excellence. We are a nation where character and ability matter far more than race, creed or social class.
The other thing is that Europeans have chosen socialist styles of government for the last couple of generations and frankly don’t understand the concepts of individual responsibility and limited government that underly the debate now swirling around the health care issue.
Oct 12, 2009 - 9:35 am 10. EscapeVelocity:David S, has hit upon another strain of Leftwing Anti Americanism.
Anti Christian.
The same folks seem to be quivering cowards however in heaping scorn and derision upon Muslims….but rather promoting Muslim rights and protecting Islam as a minority religion (also another voting block).
Thus revealing the Western Left as not Anti Religion, but rather Anti Western in its outlook.
Thus the Republican Party is its Nemesis, beign both Pro Western and Pro Christianity (as if the 2 were inseperable).
Its not an opposition to faith and favoring rationality. Its opposition to Western Civilization…and favoring suicidal idealistic radical egalitarian hedonistic moral and cultural relativistic nihilism….or put more simply the ultimate in irrationality, Darwinian Failurism.
I mean these are the people in favor of mass Muslim and Third World immigration, FFS!
Oct 12, 2009 - 9:43 am 11. Chris in Dallas:8. David S:
What does a discussion about limited government have to do with faith? The founding principles of this republic were individual liberty and limited government. Having the Federal government provide for every citizens personnel needs is in complete contradiction to these ideals, and therefore anyone who supports individual liberty and limited government is being completely rational when they resist attempts by the goverment to take over large sections of the economy.
History has shown that if you concentrate power in one place, a tyrant will eventually come to take up the reigns. That is why we resist, not because of some imagined religious doctrine.
Oct 12, 2009 - 9:47 am 12. loco36:Along with 85% of fellow Americans, I like the health coverage I have. I don’t want my health coverage managed and taxed by the government in order to provide for millions of illegal immigrants. And by the way, children are not dying in the streets. Such hyperbole is hilarious. We have the Schip program which provides coverage for children in families that are poor as well as th ose with middleclass incomes. We have Medicaid for the poor and disabled. Medicare provides for seniors. Mostly what is left uninsured is illegals and those who made a conscious decision to be uninsured and save money for other things. As for portability of health care as well as the problem of those with preexisting conditions , those can be fixed easily without disrupting all of the 85%. Unlike Europeans, Americans highly value Personal Responsibility which is why we have been a vary very successful country until leftist and Euo0pean values invaded capitalism and the free market.
Oct 12, 2009 - 10:33 am 13. Poor Citizen:Many europeans believe that America has the best chance of passing a health care bill for its citizens this year. Others feel its kind of like guns and the business end will not allow this kind of change to come to pass. However, they do respect one thing and that is the perception that we have lower taxes. Taxes are high across europe, and though, generally more passive about it, you can feel discontent. From the corner of europe where I sit. Debate is also very hot on the “ifs and the whens” many european countries will follow america/s lead and elect someone like Obama. Indeed, change could be in the air all around….and the U.S.A. started it !!
Oct 12, 2009 - 11:30 am 14. mags:I think someone should explain to me what is anti-Americanism’?
American’s including politicians have called the N.H.S ‘evil’. Some of claimed that if Stephen Hawkins was born here we would of killed him at birth? Death sqaud’s!?
Blatent ‘anti-Britishism’.Your obviously jealous of our freedoms.!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEvCXrtDCVE&feature=related
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1205953/NHS-branded-evil-Orwellian-high-level-US-politicians.html
Why can you dissect our system,but we can’t comment on yours?
The N.H.S is widely supported through political and social lines-not just a left wing policy.
Arguably ,the next prime minister,David Cameron, has had to show that the Tory’s back the N.H.S.
These might explain it more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEvCXrtDCVE&feature=related
Elections are won and lost here on health care and education.
There is call for reform but not to abolish it.We get very defensive about the N.H.S-we can critisize(and we do-all the time)but nobody else can.
I agree that does stifle debate here.Honestly nobody cares what health system you have,just leave us out of it.
Nobody here is trying to implant the N.H.S in the U.S.
The N.H.S is not about big government control.
It’s the ideology ,we believe that if we can health shouldn’t be based on ability to pay.The U.S has aspiration’s,this is one of our’s.
We don’t get that America can spend billions on it’s armed forces, donate to charity, do nation building to keep you ’safe’ ,but not health.
Oct 12, 2009 - 12:18 pm 15. newrouter:You can’t have liberty without life.
“The Demorats
GOPcontinues to lose credibility because it divorces itself from the fact-based community. Until the establishment can distance itself from thereligious rightmoonbat left, prospects are poor for a rational wing to emerge from this party.”fixed
Oct 12, 2009 - 12:34 pm 16. whyyeseyec:Everyone loves the US when we send billions in foreign aid. Europe wants us to do their dirty work when it comes to armed conflict. What do we get in return? The FINGER!
I say cut everyone off at the knees and let other nations fend for themselves because I could care less whether they like us or not….
Oct 12, 2009 - 2:09 pm 17. Marie Claude:“Europe wants us to do their dirty work when it comes to armed conflict”
uh, which one ?
if you’re thinking of the Balkans, I can tell you that your intervention wasn’t gratuitous : under the covert of fighting the “evil” Serbs, you were constructing a big american base in Bosnia, and let an open traffic of arms with Iran to creep, and former jihadists from the russian afghan war, and Palestinians could rejoin the Balkans muslim fighters. Was it the price that the Clinton had to pay to the Bosnian muslims ?
Oct 12, 2009 - 2:33 pm 18. Ranchera:The Europeans are a bunch of muslimlover sissies. They would be speaking German now if we didn’t save their arses 65 years ago.
Oct 12, 2009 - 7:58 pm 19. myth buster:The fool shoots his mouth off and proves his folly yet again! How is any of what liberals do fact based or based in reality? They keep advocating for more of policies that not only don’t work, but are actually counterproductive. The fool also believes nothing created everything, an irrational act of faith if there ever was one. At least Christians base our faith on eyewitness reports of people who refused to recant even under pain of being tortured to death, however ridiculous they may sound.
Oct 12, 2009 - 8:13 pm 20. John "birther" Samford:““Europe wants us to do their dirty work when it comes to armed conflict”
uh, which one ?”
uh, Marie, all of them. America fights so Europeans can spend money on mediocre health care instead of defense.
Oct 12, 2009 - 9:31 pm 21. Ann:European seem to think they deserve their cake and time to eat it too. Now that the EU is a reality, when will they give up one of their Security Council seats? If England AND France have seats on the UNSC, then so should New York and California and Texas.
Then there is the important thing, the World Cup. Why should the EU get separate teams for all the various former nations of Europe? Why not just one team. Like the USA or Russia gets?
China is larger more populous and maybe even richer then the new EU. Why only one team for China? AFAIK, there are more States in China 41 to 27?) then in the EU.
Free ride is over, babe’. Pay the token or get out and walk.
Ass, Grass or Cash, nobody rides for free.
How about some statistical comparisons:
Looking at cancer deaths in the US (http://apps.nccd.cdc.gov/uscs/Table.aspx?Group=TableAll&Year=2005&Display=n), we had 559,303 in 2005, for an death rate of 186 per 100,000. In the UK in 2007 (http://publications.cancerresearchuk.org/WebRoot/crukstoredb/CRUK_PDFs/mortality/IncidenceMortalitySummary.pdf), they had 155,484 cancer deaths, for a death rate of 259 per 100,000. A death rate nearly 40% higher than in the US.
That means an excess of 43,800 Britons are dying each year due to sub-standard health care. That’s 73 excess deaths for every 100,000 people from cancer alone.
Oct 12, 2009 - 10:16 pm 22. vb:mags,
Anti-Americanism has nothing to do with critical analysis of any one feature of American life. It has to do with cheap-shot critism not based on knowlege. For instance, I’ve just read several German articles about the the Nobel peace prize going to Obama. In all articles, the reaction of “the American right” was described in simple-minded clichees that could have come directly from the Axelrod spin machine. And, of course, the term right wing is used to reinforce the association with Nazism (excuse me, National Socialism) so that readers know to put all American conservatives in the same category as the former gauleiter.
While much of American criticism of the NHS is provoked by our own health care debate and the worry that all European systems are being sold as perfect, the European cheap shots are often unprovoked and pertain to issues that will have no effect on the critics. Furthermore, anti-Americanism is also manifest in facts about America that are not reported: for instance, the effectiveness of our aircraft carriers in delivering aid immediately after the tsunami. The remark about our stingy response was shown over and over on German TV. There was one acknowledgement that our contribution was a game changer, and that announcement came in a 10PM news show when most viewers were watching something else.
Anti-Americanism is giving lots of airtime and newspaper inches to any third-rate arts type with no relavant knowledge to define America’s sins.
Oct 13, 2009 - 12:08 am 23. Marie Claude:20 John
America fights so Europeans can spend money on mediocre health care instead of defense.
I have to point once more that you spend money not on ALL Europeans, and I am glad that we managed to live without your umbrella, wich isn’t gratuitous, it implies that these “protected” european countries buy your arms and planes, not only military, (but also for civils)
European seem to think they deserve their cake and time to eat it too. Now that the EU is a reality, when will they give up one of their Security Council seats? If England AND France have seats on the UNSC, then so should New York and California and Texas.
Uhis that what is disturbing you? This securrity council was the creation of the alliees at the end of WWII, when there was no EU.
Noow wasn’t the american policy trying to influence their Nato EU countries ?
Surely a united political EU was’nt in their agendas, for it means in term that some “specific” marckets will escape from american lobbies but will return to EU home made’s.
Then there is the important thing, the World Cup. Why should the EU get separate teams for all the various former nations of Europe? Why not just one team. Like the USA or Russia gets?
Well this was like that since sport events got a life, but surely Olympic games or world cup’s should be managed by the whole continent.
China is larger more populous and maybe even richer then the new EU. Why only one team for China? AFAIK, there are more States in China 41 to 27?) then in the EU.
might be, though, remember how many athlets China could align to the last OG ? myriades !
Free ride is over, babe’. Pay the token or get out and walk.
Ass, Grass or Cash, nobody rides for free.
olright, I’m not afraid of walking without a cane (or dark vader’s stick
)
Oct 13, 2009 - 5:13 am 24. Lynn B:NHS in the UK is the third largest employer in the world and is still less able to care for the majority on their waiting lists. The IMF has suggested to the UK to start charging for their free care or the UK will be in more trouble then they currently are. To put it simply the system stinks. One of the major reasons so many Europeans, Canadians, Saudis, come to the US for their life saving surgeries. I don’t see people beating feet to the EU to get that. Says it all.
Oct 13, 2009 - 6:03 am 25. Lynn B:Oh and about the whole anti-Americanism meme. My belief is that jealousy is the reason for the big hate. We have come further, faster then any EU country in innovation and technology as has Israel. You don’t compare to the exceptionalism that is the US. Until one of the EU countries has a black, brown or yellow PM or President, keep your jingoist racist comments to yourself. Until you stop assigning immigrants to ghettos and no longer have street riots, keep your sordid ugly lies to yourselves. The problem the EU has with the US is very simple, you’re not us.
Oct 13, 2009 - 6:14 am 26. Lynn B:#9 Chris
Oct 13, 2009 - 6:28 am 27. Marie Claude:Colin Powell should have run. He would have gotten my vote hands down. His credentials are impeccable.
hey, Lynn you’re holding the same discourse as the islamists, we, the Europeans are still breeding herds and picking fruits and food along our moves, and you are the ones, as too the Arabs who brought us knowledge !
uh, last year, 2 French 1 German –> Nobel prices for medical researches, sure, US and Israel gave them the dossiers !
We don’t need to go the US for sophisticated cares, we have them at home.
You are pathetic !
Oct 13, 2009 - 7:23 am 28. mags:22. vb:
I work in the N.H.S, American’s have been calling us evil,that i must be on death panel.
I am a midwife and apparantly i kill babies at birth.
I also insist on forced amnio’s.
These ‘insight’s’ predominantly came from the right wing media and followers.
They used it to betray us as communists.
Debate is good,but it depends on a wide variety of views.
We have no interest in your domestic issues,nobody has been saying that you should copy us or even try and change your mind.
Ignorance is not the problem it’s the illusion of knowledge.
I refer you to 25. Lynn B:
Oct 13, 2009 - 12:30 pm 29. mags:24. Lynn B:
You have just made my point for me. The understanding of our health care is lacking.
Do you want to know more?
I will try anyway.I work in a foundation hospital which is an independent, not for profit public benefit corporations with accountability to their local communities rather than Central Government control.
Some facts,
http://www.nhs.uk/news/2009/03March/Pages/NHSwaitingtimesQA.aspx
You might not of known this,
http://www.nhs.uk/choiceintheNHS/Yourchoices/hospitalchoice/Pages/Choosingahospital.aspx
I am not saying ours is better or even comparing ,i am just explaining.I could go on but nobody really wants to know.
‘Oh and about the whole anti-Americanism meme. My belief is that jealousy is the reason for the big hate.’
Firstly we don’t hate the American people,just some of your foreign policy that affects us all.
Nobody wants to change it’s health system to the American model.
The U.S like a spoilt child who on getting rightly critisized believes they are not liked because they are beautiful and not that they were drunk drugged and crashed the car.
There was deep sorry following 9/11,people que’d for miles to sign condolance books.I even cried that day.
The same with hurraicane katrina, the world tried to help.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_response_to_Hurricane_Katrina
‘ The problem the EU has with the US is very simple, you’re not us.’
I don’t know whether you know how funny that comment is.
Who is ‘us’,are you saying we should envy Obama’s administration? It’s you lot that is
calling him an idiot,a closest muslim who is not eligiable to be your leader,terrorist loving traitor who is just an empty suit and an anti-semite .
Why would we want to be like you?
If the U.S is so much better that E.U, why do Americans use the dual identity of ,irish americans,italian american etc.
Even when your last ancestor that lived there was hundreds of years ago,and they have’nt even been to that country that they want to be associated with.
Why carry on our custom’s and traditions ,use our names,learn to cook food associated with that country.
Even want dual passports.Some Americans are mighty proud of there European background.
There is actually more people in the U.S that thinks they are Irish then in Ireland .
The problem the US has with the EU is very simple, you’re not us.
Oct 13, 2009 - 2:23 pm 30. Chris in Grapevine:Any European who thinks that Europeans are not racist ought to try being a European Jew for a day. The “45,000,000″ uninsured — besides being an inflated figure to begin with — ignores the fact that many, such as myself, actually prefer it that way and have chosen, eyes wide open, to be uninsured. Europeans are largely insulated from the realities of the world, and they are used to having a nanny state make most of their decisions for them. I read their comments (and listen to them as well, coming from my own european relatives), and I think that they are reflective of nothing so much as a case of international penis envy.
Oct 14, 2009 - 7:56 am 31. Marie Claude:chris, that’s funny, “largely insulated”, or “penis envy” are also term with which the Europeans would label the US too ! uh, are you your mirror ?
Oct 14, 2009 - 8:20 am 32. EscapeVelocity:The U.S like a spoilt child who on getting rightly critisized — mags
LOL!
I think we should end NATO now.
Oct 14, 2009 - 8:55 am 33. Matthew:So … was the inflated and ridiculous criticism of the UK’s health system a case of anti-britishism? No? So why does this only work one way?
Stop being precious. You guys are happy to smear europe when it suits you. In this particular case, you definitely started it.
I just wish there was more coverage of the australian health system. You guys really don’t know what you’re missing out on.
Oct 15, 2009 - 4:00 am 34. George Bruce:I wonder at this “Amerika” about which they speak. I can’t find it on my globe. It sounds like a horrible place. I am sure glad I don’t live there.
I do find their logic amusing. Who opposes Obama’s nationalized health care scheme? Racists and right-wing extremists.
How do we know they are racists and right-wing extremists? Simple, they oppose Obama’s nationalized health care scheme.
Their ignorance of America is breathtaking. They actually must believe that there are millions of poor Americans dying in the streets because they don’t have health insurance and are denied admittance to hospitals. Incredible. Such ignorance does not come without hard work. I think it can only be explained by a deep seated and irrational anti-Americanism. Whatever we have done to make these people hate us, we should stop doing it immediately. Pull out of Bosnian and the rest of Europe. End our participation in NATO. End other security agreements. Make only trade deals that are beneficial to the US. After all, we have no inherent conflict with Russia, Iran, or anyone else, for that matter. Our only neighbors are Canada and Mexico and neither is a threat. It will be a long time before Iranian missiles can hit the US.
Oct 15, 2009 - 12:26 pm 35. mags:34. George Bruce:
‘How do we know they are racists and right-wing extremists? Simple, they oppose Obama’s nationalized health care scheme.’
We don’t care if you oppose Obama’s scheme.Nobody is saying that you should adopt our’s
It’s the crap that has been said/heard about the N.H.S that has caused a rebuttal.
How hilarious is this?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1205953/NHS-branded-evil-Orwellian-high-level-US-politicians.html
‘Their ignorance of America is breathtaking.’
Yup we know how you feel.
I don’t think any politician here called the U.S system evil like yours did.
Evil!! I work in the N.H.S does that mean i am an evil doer.
Or ,is it the belief of good v evil ,with the U.S being good.
‘I think it can only be explained by a deep seated and irrational anti-Americanism. ‘
Well you need to think some more.For goodness sake you need to get over yourselve.
So if another country{an allie} dares comments on U.S health care in response to ridiculous claims then you should break diplomatic relationship with us?
You are making it to easy to mock. However that says more about your character and morals then ours
Oct 17, 2009 - 9:55 am