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122 Comments

1. Marc Malone:

Of course he’ll win. He’s an average guy, not some slick pol; just a fed-up Citizen. Cinderella. Americans LOVE the underdog! Stick it to the establishment when they are mad anyway? Oh, Hell Yeah!

TEApartiers, 9-12ers, Beck, and a populist Conservative revolt. The writing is on the wall in a language even establishment GOP types can read. Even the GOP Congress can get it. They’ve been standing strong as a group. They finally saw the danger to the country. Spectre’s defection was a wake-up call. Snowe was, too. Now, even she’ll get it, too.

When VA falls, it’ll be a big signal. If NJ falls, too, it’ll be FIERY LETTERS IN THE SKY! Lieberman was canny to announce his rebellion at this moment. Brilliant! Blue Dog Senators will be joining the Exodus after these elections, following his lead. House Blue Dogs, too. It’ll be a rout. The Dem majority will shatter.

The Pubs found some semblance of a spine and stood strong in a rearguard action. This bought time for the populist revolt to build. When the Pubs have the momentum, we may see some simple solutions to the healthcare issue. Of course, that’ll be the moment of greatest danger. We may win the war, but lose the peace, by compromising away the advantage. Gotta keep the pressure on.

Nov 1, 2009 - 2:16 am 2. Francis W. Porretto:

NY-23 is not “magic.” No special circumstances obtain there. It’s just an example of the alterations to political dynamics caused by the new modes of communication available to us.

What caused so many good people to back away from the machine-Republican nominee? What moved them, and other well-wishers across America, to rally to Doug Hoffman’s campaign? How did “the word” get around about Hoffman and Dede Scozzafava?

None of this would have happened except for the one-to-many communications possibilities of the World Wide Web, lent extra amplitude by Glenn Beck (Fox News) and Rush Limbaugh (EIB Talk radio).

For many years, the limits on individuals’ ability to find others similarly minded in the great sea of faces, the legal privileges the major parties have written into the laws of the fifty states, and a prevalent belief that “the party knows best who’s electable” have retarded the emergence of such rebellions against the masters of the political status quo. But the communications revolution has proved stronger than all the impediments the political Establishment could erect:

– Websites with large readerships were told about the Scozzafava and Hoffman candidacies;
– Those Websites took note, incidentally cross-informing other Websites that took up the story;
– Readers began to chatter among themselves about the matter;
– Several major figures who command great popular respect took up positions;
– The flood of pro-Hoffman, anti-Scozzafava money and reportage began.

The major parties and their shills in the Legacy Media are, of course, stunned…and dismayed…and searching frantically for a countermeasure. But there is no countermeasure, short of federal censorship of Beck, Limbaugh, Palin, et alii and a federal takeover of the World Wide Web. And so NY-23 will happen again…and again…and again, until the power-brokers of the Republican Party learn who’s now subservient to whom in the national political discourse.

Nov 1, 2009 - 3:12 am 3. Has to Laugh:

I think the writer is as confused as to what is happening as the GOP is. The “movement” in this country isn’t about Democrat vs Republican. They’ve both screwed things up and want nothing more than to control everyone else. They just take different approaches getting there.

The conservative movement is about fiscal responsibilty and individual freedoms. Two things the GOP abandoned long ago in favor of gays and abortion. Even the writer uses these two points as comparison, and wondering how a conservative cannot be opposed to gay marriage. Let me tell you, MOST OF US JUST DON’T CARE. Personally, and I’m sure I’ll take heat for this, I believe in a womans right to chose as well. And yes, there are limitations to this.

So, gays are just other people to me, and I believe in a womans right to chose. Where does that leave me with the GOP? I am anything but a liberal as my liberal neighbors will attest to.

I’ve worked way to hard during my career and it pisses me off to think about almost 60% of WHAT I HAVE WORKED FOR, will be “redistributed” to those, most of which, are too lazy to go out and earn it. Please do not misunderstand me, I am all in favor of helping those in need, but when “need” becomes an entitlement way of life, the ship has definitely sprung a leak.

There truly has been an awakening of a sleeping giant in this country, and I don’t think it is one either party will be fond of in the long run.

Nov 1, 2009 - 3:28 am 4. jb:

We don’t need more hand picked RINOs adding to the deficit, figuring new ways to spend even more and more distant future tax dollars. What we need is some decent honest folks who can say and mean the word; “NO~!”, to idiotic new 1,990 page legislation that comes with so many new taxes and regulations that slowly sap away our freedoms. We don’t need complete tort reform, we need some common sense judges who will bitch slap these greedy attorneys who file frivolous law suits.

Maybe NY-23rd district has the right idea in Hoffman, he’s an accountant and accountants are supposed to know how to balance a check book. We have seen clearly that lawyers have no idea how that trick is done.

Nov 1, 2009 - 3:47 am 5. ‘Unruly’ Conservatives Shock the GOP in NY-23 | Secolul 21 ~ 21st Century:

[...] the rest here: ‘Unruly’ Conservatives Shock the GOP in NY-23 This entry is filed under America – Blogs, Pajamas Media. You can follow any responses to this [...]

Nov 1, 2009 - 4:21 am 6. Sandy Salt:

3. Has to Laugh,

I am right there with you and this is only the beginning of some really cool things that are going to happen. The far rights and the RINOs are killing the Republican party. That is just fine because it opens the door to fiscal conservatives that want to keep social issues such as abortion and gay marriage at the state/local level. Certain things should not be in the pervue of the federal government and the Constitution clearly points out what should be and if we stuck to that then we would have a smaller federal government, lower taxes and social issues would be decided by the states or by Constitutional Amendment.

The race in NY shows that a conservative can win and that we need more of them. We need to build a Conservative Causcus so that the Republicans and Democrats can never again ram crappy pork laden bills down our throats. I am for neither party ever having a majority again. I love this country and I am libertarian and I don’t want Washington dictating every part of my life. I am a fiscal conservative that believes in the Constitution and you can keep your social issues to yourself.

Nov 1, 2009 - 4:32 am 7. Anonymous:

HAS TO LAUGH Maybe, just maybe, Hoffman will be the wake up call needed in America, good comment.

We have the same problem here in Canada with the conservative party boat leaning so far port in the hopes of picking off disenchanted liberals that they are sinking themselves. They can’t get a majority government and can’t figure out why. The majority of people in both our countries are conservative minded at heart and the only ones that can’t figure that out are our conservative parties.

Our liberals are just as ingrown and power greedy as your democrat me people but conservatives in both countries again just can’t seem to figure that out and take advantage. The average guy in both countries and both parties simply want someone to represent their views, not someone that has cheated them into believing they will.

Nov 1, 2009 - 5:10 am 8. GLASS:

HAS TO LAUGH Maybe, just maybe, Hoffman will be the wake up call needed in America, good comment.

We have the same problem here in Canada with the conservative party boat leaning so far port in the hopes of picking off disenchanted liberals that they are sinking themselves. They can’t get a majority government and can’t figure out why. The majority of people in both our countries are conservative minded at heart and the only ones that can’t figure that out are our conservative parties.

Our liberals are just as ingrown and power greedy as your democrat me people but conservatives in both countries again just can’t seem to figure that out and take advantage. The average guy in both countries and both parties simply want someone to represent their views, not someone that has cheated them into believing they will.

Nov 1, 2009 - 5:10 am 9. Dodgeblogium » The socialist in NY23 drops out…:

[...] Moran has done a great piece on [...]

Nov 1, 2009 - 5:43 am 10. pelaut:

“Could the magic . . . be sprinkled like fairy dust across the country?”

No, it couldn’t be, because regressive ogres like Gingrich, Boehner, MacCain and Graham run the Nelson Rockefeller Country Club GOP. They’re Barry Goldwater’s spoiled children gone elitist.

Nov 1, 2009 - 6:11 am 11. Mike2:

1. Marc Malone:

I hope to God you are right!

2. Francis W. Porretto:

Precisely why the powers that be want to shackle the Internet and are in the process of doing so in the name of “national security”. I think better words might be “incumbent security”.

Nov 1, 2009 - 6:14 am 12. Joshua Rosenblum:

Two weeks ago, a betting man would have given you pretty good odds for Dede Scozzafava to win the special election in New York’s 23rd congressional district against the Democrat Bill Owens and Doug Hoffman, a little-known accountant running on the Conservative Party ballot line. But, in what may be a harbinger of how wacky and wonderful the 2010 midterm elections might be, Scozzafava, after dropping in the polls to a distant third, has suspended her campaign and the previously unknown Hoffman appears to be the favorite to take the seat.

I have to admit I was totally wrong about the dynamics in NY-23. I’m stunned that Hoffman could turn the tide there. I’d be wary about inferring a general rule from this however. 90% of the time when a candidate runs independent because of dissatisfaction with the GOP nominee, you just end up handing the seat to the Dems.

Nov 1, 2009 - 6:21 am 13. blotto:

This was a classic case of conservative versus “go along to get along” thinking of the RNC. Scozzafava was a RINO in the tradition of the RNC, Spector, Snowe and others and the new Gingrich.

The RNC has proven it worthlessness over the last 25 years in being just a political party. It has not been a loyal opposition party or even the foil to the Dems. It has become just a political party thus their support for Scozzafava. Steele has got to go.

Has to laugh: I am with you until we talk about gays and abortion. I’m okay also with what goes on behind closed doors and giving them the same marriage rights as heterosexual couples but I do not believe they should receive the sacrament of marriage and neither should their lifestyle be forced down the throats of elementary-aged students.

And a woman’s right to choose has given rise to late-term (and latter term) and even partial-birth abortions. So again going soft on that is not what we are about. Being a compassionate conservative that you must be is not a winning ticket.

Fiscal and social conservatives are not and should not be mutually exclusive like the Dems want us to be. That is how the Dems have ruined the RNC, RNCC the GOP.

I hope the Hoffman insurgency as well as VA and NJ give rise to the conservative party and perhaps a national leader-like Palin, or Santorum, Jindle and a few others.

Nov 1, 2009 - 6:28 am 14. nmewn:

“Didn’t those numbskulls at the RNC and the NRCC even bother to check this woman’s credentials before giving her stacks of cash donated by good conservatives?”
No they didn’t…just like with Charlie “The Stimulus is a Miracle” Crist down here.

They better get a clue…Rubio’s the man in Fla.

Nov 1, 2009 - 6:36 am 15. Booker T. Gain:

And while Gingrich comes out of the fray with egg on his face, Sarah Palin emerges once again as a savvy leader who recognized the opportunity to ride the populist wave and make a sizable impact with her timely endorsement. Other potential 2012 presidential candidates hesitated, either failing to grasp the opportunity or not recognizing it. Palin’s boldness in sensing the mood of national conservatives and bucking the establishment only adds to the perception that no matter what the polls say about how the American people see the former Alaska governor, she will be a force in national politics in 2012 and beyond.

Giving credit where it is due. The GOP is now less likely to choose a liberal when a viable conservative candidate is available.

Nov 1, 2009 - 6:44 am 16. vivo:

Interesting . .

Nov 1, 2009 - 6:57 am 17. jb:

From #12. “I have to admit I was totally wrong about the dynamics in NY-23. I’m stunned that Hoffman could turn the tide there. I’d be wary about inferring a general rule from this however. 90% of the time when a candidate runs independent because of dissatisfaction with the GOP nominee, you just end up handing the seat to the Dems.”

I made the exact same comment 2 days ago, that Hoffman would prolly be nothing but a Ross Perot style spoiler for Owens.

I’m stunned by this turn of events.

Nov 1, 2009 - 7:00 am 18. RAH:

The rules in NY are unique. The candidates can run under two party’s banner. So Hoffman is a Republican and could run under the Conservative Party banner also. Since the GOP decided not to have a primary this allowed a conservative to challenge the liberal GOP candidate and the Democratic candidate at the same time. The realities was that Dede was more liberal than Owens so there wasn’t much to lose if Hoffman lost. Conservatives would still get a representative that was more conservative that Dede.

This is not the same reality in NJ. There Dagget is a danger to the more conservative Christie and may enable Corzine to win. Christie made a mistake refusing Plain’s offer to campaign for him. The conservatives are dispirited in NJ and Palin would have invigorated them and would help the GOP turnout for Christie.

Va is still different. There they had a popular GOP candidate versus a weak Democratic candidate and McDonnell did not need Palin’s help. Deeds had campaigned badly being totally negative and his rural roots are not helping. Obama campaign for Deeds also does not help in VA. Va is still mainly a red state and even the liberal north is not as partisan as NJ or MD.

Warner in Va was popular but Va rules but Kaine is not as much. So A good conservative Democrat could have won but Deeds was just a poor campaigner.

NY 23 is a lesson to the GOP not to betray the conservative base as they have been flirting with for the last several years.

The GOP needs to change the presidential primaries to close them so liberals can no no longer skew the candidates choices for the GOP.

All the liberal pundits like Frum, Noonan and Brooks are wrong to believe that the GOP ought to slide to the left.
The libertarians and constitutionalists have been side lined by the GOP expansion of government and fiscal insanity. The will support candidates that are fiscal conservatives like Hoffman and Toomey.

The social conservatives will support candidates that support traditional families as long as those candidates don’t push for radical change. Let any social change work it way through the states.

Nov 1, 2009 - 7:01 am 19. DVG:

Francis W Porretto you are spot on.

The www amplified by talk radio is a great understanding.

To has to laugh. Yeah gays are just other people, but marriage is not the proper formality for them. I don’t understand being gay, but I have some understanding of being human. Over time, I think something could emerge that would recoqnize whatever they emotional require without impinging on marriage as most of us here think of it.

I think the abortion arguement contains a lot of guilt. It is such an emotionally charged circumstance. Those involved and likely to be at risk of being in the position of contemplating such action are almost always going to be under thirty.

Women have the gift of giving birth. With that gift comes responsibility. Like it or not, their bodies do not belong only to them when they conceive.

For a long time I struggled with this issue. When I came to appreciate that not one life was involved, but two, the answer became very plain.

If conservatives simply present that reality, I believe it can be most persuasive.

Nov 1, 2009 - 7:03 am 20. Right Wing Nut House » ‘UNRULY’ CONSERVATIVES SHOCK THE GOP IN NY23:

[...] A sample: [...]

Nov 1, 2009 - 7:14 am 21. tanstaafl:

…coupled with the seeming inability of the Republican establishment to effectively counter the president’s radical agenda.

That has been one of the more shocking elements of politics the past 10 months.

Either the inability or the unwillingness to counter this administration’s power grabs, in all kinds of areas of American life.

It seems a deliberate tactic of this administration to push and push the envelope to see how much they can get away with, how much power they can concentrate in the executive.

In the name of Constitutional government, shouldn’t someone be vigorously countering this relentless barrage ?

Where are they ?

It may be understandable that they would choose a pro-choice woman to run in New York state…

Conservatives need to get past the gender, race,etc. (identity politics) phenomenon in choosing any candidate or appointment to any position. That is a (stupid) democrat fixation, and such choices cannot be “historic” or meaningful on any level if any such candidate has brains of mush.

Nov 1, 2009 - 7:23 am 22. Libertyship46:

This is an amazing boost to sagging conservative morale.It was incredibly dumb of the Republican elite in New York State to put a liberal like Scozzafava on the ticket. She is the polar opposite of the democratic “blue dogs” in congress, “conservaive” democrats that were elected in formerly Repubican districts. The Republican elites really think they can out democrat Democrats by nominating liberals like Scozzafava. They don’t realize that the conservatives are appalled by people like Scozzafava, a person who really should be in the Democratic and not the Republican party. Instead of being considered a “blue dog,” maybe liberal Republicans like Scozzafava should be called “white chickens,” because they don’t have the backbone to say what they really are (which is liberal) and they don’t have the nerve to join the Democratic Party, which is where they really belong. Even if Hoffman doesn’t win, it will be a victory for conservatives. We tried supporting liberal Republicans in the last election with John McCain and we can all see what a smashing success that was. It is ironic that McCain’s running mate, Sarah Palin, has now emerged as the true conservative leading the party, being the first major politician to support Hoffman. She knows what the Republican elites don’t know, which is that this country wants a clear alternative to liberal Democrats, like Obama, and not some watered-down liberal Republican imitation, like Scozzafava.

Nov 1, 2009 - 7:33 am 23. MarkD:

I don’t live in NY 23, so I did not listen closely to the debate, but I did catch a piece of it. The impression I got from what I heard was two candidates with the usual “I’m from the government and I’m here to help you (with your money) arguing about which one is better.

My problem is that I cannot afford the help I’m already getting and do not want or need. Hoffman seems to be the only candidate who understands that.

To the extent the GOP used to hear that message, they won. As Dem-lites, RINOs, or whatever name you choose for authoritarian moral scolds with no fiscal responsibility at all, Republicans simply cannot compete with the other looters.

Nov 1, 2009 - 7:34 am 24. Dr. Matt:

While I appreciate that Mr. Hoffman is more representative of a core of Conservative values and frankly probably does represent that district better than the RNC designate, you do know the Big-Money hand that is up his tail ? You do know that other elites used money, lawyers, celebrities, dirty tricks to get him in and her out ?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-kelly/bias-media-dirty-tricks-a_b_341141.html

‘welcome to the new boss, same as the old boss…’

Nov 1, 2009 - 7:40 am 25. savage24:

Now the Conservatives are “Unruly” the New York Times calls the in NY-23 Conservatives “Stalin Republicans” . I’m feeling great pride for this group, they doing the right thing and throwing a few road bumps for ruling RINOs.The GOP, RNC and the NRCC are not used to this sort of thing. They have had their way for to long and look at what the Party has become. Bigger whiners then the White House.

Nov 1, 2009 - 7:05 am 26. Dave K.:

The Conservative Party of New York is nothing but a cover for reactionary Republicans who want to pretend to be “independent”, especially now that the Republican brand has been so severely damaged.

If he wins the election, he’ll dutifully vote Republican and basically be just another Republican stooge.

And, no, I don’t think he’ll win.

He’s split the regressive vote and those who would’ve voted for Scozzafava will stay home or vote Democrat instead.

Nov 1, 2009 - 7:28 am 27. Pajamas Media ‘Unruly’ Conservatives Shock the GOP in NY-23 – A must read. « Are you Freaking Stupid?:

[...] Pajamas Media » ‘Unruly’ Conservatives Shock the GOP in NY-23 Comments (0) Trackbacks (0) Leave a comment Trackback [...]

Nov 1, 2009 - 7:29 am 28. ironbill:

As someone who lives in Upstate NY, I couldn’t be happier about what’s going on in the 23rd. The Republican party in NY has always been a liberal enclave (Rockefeller ran the state for what seemed like a lifetime). The contemporary Republican party has been the personal plaything of a group of celeb/elite/pols run in the backroom by Al D’Amato.

For years they never really offered anything different from the Dems except for the name. Pataki was elected and re-elected governor based on a promise to reform Albany and return NY to its status as the premier state in the Union. Never happened. Instead he brokered a bunch of status quo deals with the CSEA and SEIU that kept Republicans in seats, but worsened the state’s fiscal situation.

In the district where I live, we had a special election to replace Kirsten Gillibrand after she was picked to take Hillary’s Senate seat. The NY State Republican committee, true to form, picked a career Albany insider named Tedisco. In a district that favors Republicans 53-47 Tedisco lost by about 1000 votes.

What’s happening in the 23rd is that ordinary conservative, common sense minded citizens are saying “enough.” To D’Amato, Pataki, and all the other entrenched pols: don’t let the door hit you on the way out

Nov 1, 2009 - 7:34 am 29. Now and Then:

“The wave that very well might overwhelm the Republican establishment in New York’s 23rd congressional district has actually been building since before 2006, when the conservative base realized that they were voting for people who talked a good conservative game on the campaign trail but changed their spots once they got to Washington.”

This is the great self-mockery of the right, who only began complaining about things once they saw that America was changing, that the country had rejected their failed policies and positions (and media). Conservatives had no choice but to say, “Oh, yeah, well, we reject all that bad stuff too, honest. those crazy, divisive, destructive things we were supporting for the last six, seven years, that wasn’t us. No, no, no, that was somebody else. Down with government! Down with politicians! Down with the administration!

It’s that classic lack of principle among the right I keep referring to (and proving) around here. Let me give you an example: “Dierdre Scozzafava quit because she loves New York so very very much, and she wasn’t going to buy into that same old politics as usual.”

Nov 1, 2009 - 7:56 am 30. inspectorudy:

I don’t know Tom Reynold so I might be way off base here but has anyone thought of a conspiracy here? BHO appointed the obvious winner in NY23 as his new Sec Army knowing that he would at least create some possibility of a Dem win in NY23. Could Reynolds and the Pres nave been in contact about this? I mean Reynolds choice is so bad that you have to think that there must be a good reason to nominate Scozzafava and if there was a quid pro quo who benefited? Also, did anyone notice that ALL news outlets, including Fox, named gay marrige and pro abortion as the reason Hoffman was the choice of the conservatives? Haven’t any of them watched a town hall meeting? Not one time in the one in Atlanta did hear abortion or gay anything mentioned. It was her fiscal record and her stand on card check, cap and trade, Obama’s stimulus and her tricky Clintonesque answer to the Obamacare question that the voters were furious about. It really hurt to see Carl Cameron stand there and blather on about only the social issues that caused her down fall. Can you hear me now?

Nov 1, 2009 - 7:57 am 31. J.Wallace:

The race to watch will be Specter and Toomey in PA …. election is in 2010 as are alot of others but what to watch for is the democrat challenger, if he beats Specter out for the Democrat nomination and if Specter manages to survive that then watch his polling against Toomey

Nov 1, 2009 - 8:00 am 32. JKB:

And now Scozzafava is pushing her supporters to the Democrat. What ever happens, the Republican national leaders have lost. Now they can’t even claim she was ever anywhere near conservative values or even a Republican supporter. So will they learn? Will there be a shake up of the old Republican guard who can’t even recognize a Democrat when they see one?

Question: Is the Republican party still the conservative party or has it been taken over by Democrat fellow travelers?

Nov 1, 2009 - 8:03 am 33. arhooley:

3. Has to Laugh:

You won’t take any heat from me. I’m sick of being intimidated by SoCons who yell “death cult” at pro-choice mothers! My conservative position on government’s NON-role in Americans’ private lives gets me called a RINO? I look forward to voting for Meg Whitman, a pro-choice Republican, for Governor of California. There, I said it.

Nov 1, 2009 - 8:06 am 34. SteveB/Colorado:

#3 Has to Laugh: what you are saying makes a LOT of sense. It’s about time for true conservatives to take back our party from those who are spendthrifts and those who would use big government to impose their personal religious views on everyone. Like you, I could care less about gay marriage.

#6 Sandy Salt: “like you, I am a fiscal conservative who believes in the Constitution and you can keep your social issues to yourself.” Also, well said. If one believes in the Constitution, how can one justify ignoring the 1st amendment to impose certain religious views. I firmly believe that right to choose is a decision made by a family with their doctor. Those who oppose abortion, or use of artificial birth control, need to simply “butt out” and confine your views to your own families.

#19 DVG; “Yeah, gays are just other people, but marriage is not the proper formality for them.” Shouldn’t we allow gays to make up their own minds? You might have a point, were it not for the strong opposition from certain religious groups to even the concept of civil unions.

“women have the gift of giving birth. With that gift comes responsibility. Like it or not, their bodies do not belong only to them when they conceive….” Your eloquence is very commendable in light of the often offensive rhetoric that clouds the issue of human reproduction. I’m curious, however, why you would not mention the role of the male in your discussion about responsibility.

The woman’s body still belongs to the woman in my view. The decision to carry to term, use artificial birth control if desired, have an abortion within the grounds set by the state she & her family reside in, must rest with the family, not with outsiders.

Nov 1, 2009 - 8:09 am 35. Richard:

So why isn’t anyone calling for Michael Steele’s resignation?

Nov 1, 2009 - 8:12 am 36. arhooley:

19. DVG:

And I’ve got plenty of arguments on the other side of legal abortion. So, persuade, yes. Enforce, no.

Nov 1, 2009 - 8:15 am 37. Praetorian:

Well, first of all I am not sure what all the hoopla is about this anyway. The district is a conservative one and hasn’t elected a Democratic representative since the 1800s. This district electing a liberal would be a little like Nancy Pelosi’s district electing a moderate. This isn’t news. What is news is the party infighting in the GOP. Do they plan on doing this in every district where the candidate doesn’t regurgitate the party line as they see fit? That is a recipe for failure because many districts are indeed moderate and DO have a history of going back and forth with regard to party. Just as Democrats run moderate candidates to win in more conservative districts Republicans need to run more moderate to win in more liberal districts.

While the very conservative, out of the mainstream base, may be emboldened by forcing out a moderate, it is hard to see how this strategy will work on a national level. The message they have sent is clear: moderates are not welcome in the GOP and differing opinions are not tolerated. This may play well with Teabaggers but it won’t play well with main street America.

Nov 1, 2009 - 8:31 am 38. Ruebacca:

I donate to SarahPAC. I am glad the investment of my money has had some influence at a critical time. I would like to ask more people to donate to SarahPac. In 2010 we will have hundreds of conservatives to support and Palin is a good way to do it. She can leverage your small donation to have a strong impact.

Nov 1, 2009 - 8:41 am 39. Donna V.:

Has to laugh: I’m always bemused by comments like yours. You make it sound like GOP social conservativism didn’t exist prior to Bush’s election. As if it’s some new fad.

I guess you didn’t notice at the time, but Reagan was a socon. (Why do you think Bork was “borked?”) If anything, Jerry Falwell was much more prominent than someone like Dobson is today.

Can you name a Republican who was or is fiscally conservative and socially liberal? Arnold? Nelson Rockefeller? Snowe? It’s like spotting a unicorn – your mythical creature doesn’t exist in real life.

Nov 1, 2009 - 9:22 am 40. csd:

Just reading about all the sympathy and support “poor” Dede is getting (see HuffPo article) assures me that my tiny contribution to Hoffman was the right thing to do.

Nov 1, 2009 - 9:27 am 41. csd:

Oh, and about that HuffPo article, Dr. Mark bought it hook line and sinker.

Nov 1, 2009 - 9:29 am 42. mdutch1:

The 8th Congressional district in Florida has the same issue with the Republicans and the media. Patricia Sullivan has declared she is running on the Republican ticket against Alan Grayson. She is not getting any local media coverage and I doubt the RNCC is giving her much support. Watch this lady and the race to see another underdog beat main stream politics.

I have stopped donating to the political parties and PACs. Instead, I will give my money to candidates in any state who share my values and believe that it is time for real change in Washington DC.

http://www.patriciasullivanforcongress.com
Patriot not Politician.

Nov 1, 2009 - 9:37 am 43. tanstaafl:

Day before yesterday, Hillary Clinton reprimanded the Pakistanis…

“The percentage of taxes on GDP (in Pakistan) is among the lowest in the world… We (the United States) tax everything that moves and doesn’t move, and that’s not what we see in Pakistan,” she said.

The current crop of liberals has it all wrong, and they’re hoping your lack of knowledge of Constitutional boundaries will continue to enable their agenda to re-invent & reconfigure the United States of America.

Doug Hoffman understands the founding ideas & principles of the United States & deserves to be elected to the US House of Representatives, for reasons including, but not limited to, the following:

“I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents.”
~James Madison

“Congress has not unlimited powers to provide for the general welfare, but only those specifically enumerated.”
~Thomas Jefferson

“Government’s view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.”
~Ronald Reagan (1986)

Reagan could have been talking directly to Hillary.

Nov 1, 2009 - 9:58 am 44. Poor Citizen:

This Hoffman should win in a very conservative district. However, his pro-big business, christian extremist, anti working class views will never play well among the more educated, harder working parts of the country. However, in that part of NY?..of course it will. Good Luck to him !

Nov 1, 2009 - 10:03 am 45. dynomitejim:

It is amazing how powerful Sarah Palin is. Am I suprised she is popular, no, but the momentum she can create is astonishing. I was a doubter until Ny 23, Rino’s beware, your days are numbered

Nov 1, 2009 - 10:06 am 46. Marc Malone:

#24 Dr. Matt – Seriously? You’re going to use a HuffPo article written by Bill Maher as your reference? Here? Have you lost your damned mind?!? Oooh, Big Money. Club for Growth. Outsiders. Did not the Pubs and the Dems have far more money and outsider interests?

Hoffman did not ask for these things. This was simply the hottest issue around, Republican insiders choosing a non-Republican to be their candidate. Don’t blame him for their support or actions. he was just an outraged guy who stepped up. Good on him.

Nov 1, 2009 - 10:22 am 47. blotto:

Nice Try SteveB/CO: I have seen you here before and you are no conservative.

You said. “big government to impose their personal religious views on everyone.” Just what are these religious views social conservatives are trying to impose on you?

You said. “Like you, I could care less about gay marriage.” Another nice try. So the marriage as a sacrament has no value? It should be for everyone and any kind of marriage-man/dog, older man/child girl, NAMBLA marriage, and of course polygamists?

Why do gays want a religion to approve of their marriage? I could care less if a JP marries them. No you are using subterfuge and this issue to make in roads into further marginalizing religion.

You said, “…were it not for the strong opposition from certain religious groups to even the concept of civil unions.” I think most religious people are okay with civil unions so that red herring can be thrown away. And if not then please supply a source.

You said, “If one believes in the Constitution, how can one justify ignoring the 1st amendment to impose certain religious views.”

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,…”

Again what views is the right imposing? And the second part says that religious people can exercise their beliefs. But that doesn’t sit well with your world view. Fine. If a woman wants an abortion, she should pay for it herself. IF killing a baby who is alive and viable means nothing to you because it does not comport with your ideology then we have all lost.

Your final para summarizes your position well; right from the DNC platform. “have an abortion within the grounds set by the state she & her family reside in” We all know this is trash. A woman or child can cross state lines to get the abortion she wants. And what limits are there? Do you call killing a child a limit because that what partial-birth abortion is?

And if the woman’s body is sacrosanct then why do we have drug laws? Why is someone charged with double murder if they kill a pregnant woman? Why is suicide illegal?

This is more of the same garbage from the left trying to make it seem like there are two kinds of conservatives fiscal and social. In actuality there is but one conservative. You cannot be one exclusively without the other.

Nov 1, 2009 - 10:27 am 48. Libertyship46:

#35, Richard, very good point! Steele is at the cutting edge of trying to get a RINO elected and now he looks very foolish for not supporting Hoffman earlier. Steele also foolishly thinks that only RINOs can get elected president (try telling that to Ronald Reagan). But could you imagine, just imagine, if Steele was replaced by Sarah Palin? I actually thought it was a job tailor-made for her. She wouldn’t have to win a major election and she could do what she does best, which is excite and give voice to the conservative base of the party. She would bring in a ton of money and no one could attack her for wanting to become president. It would also set the political world on fire. But I doubt it would happen because I don’t think her goal in life is to raise money for the Republican Party, a party that abandoned her after the election. Still, it would be something to see.

Nov 1, 2009 - 10:39 am 49. Arroyo:

Vivo – Congratulations, an intelligent comment.

Nov 1, 2009 - 10:45 am 50. Marc Malone:

#37 Praetorian – You are spouting the same nonsense Newt did: win at all costs; the Pub Party doesn’t really stand for anything. No, candidates don’t have to toe the Party line. If they can get themselves elected, fine. Just don’t use my Party contributions to help them.

The Party has to toe the Party line. If they don’t represent the platform, then it is just about power and privilege. The Party has become dominated by the moderates; the sellouts; the professionals. This is a revolt against establishment, GOP power-seekers. We actually want things done.

It’s not that there isn’t a difference between the Pub Party platform and the Dem Party platform. There is a vast difference. There just doesn’t seem to be much difference between our career politicians.

Finally, Conservatives are not “out of the mainstream”. This a Leftist Media meme; pure Dem Party propoganda. Conservatives outnumber each other group. That makes US the mainstream. How dumb does one have to be to buy that stupid meme, when the stat is widely available and has stayed constant for as long as it has been measured? Cons are about 40%. Libs about 20%. Most of the rest lean a little to the Right. Liberals are just a very vocal, radical, nuisance of a minority.

Nov 1, 2009 - 10:45 am 51. Marc Malone:

#45 dinomitejim – Yeah, it is amazing how powerful she has become, but I was not astonished. I knew as soon as she weighed in, TweedleDede was TweedleDone.

I followed a link to another site (forget which). Some guy posted his experience volunteering for the Hoffman campaign. He was only gonna stay a couple days. He stayed the week. They were massively busy opening letters and processing the checks… and reading the hearfelt letters from around the country. The letters were heartwarming, and it was raining money. The campaign had never seen the like. And all after Sarah’s endorsement.

It was a good week for the Hoffman campaign. Kinda. Sorta.

Nov 1, 2009 - 10:56 am 52. Sherab Zangpo:

Excellent column, thank you. Very balanced.

It seems to me that the most important point is that Sarah Palin can now act as the catalyst for a real and deep change. The battle will be terrible, she has to face the elitists who share a brotherly friendship with the radical internationalist subversives of the Obama administration. But she has shown she has the Force with her.

Thank you for the opportunity to comment.

Nov 1, 2009 - 10:58 am 53. arhooley:

Can you name a Republican who was or is fiscally conservative and socially liberal?

Uh, Barry Goldwater?

Rudy Giuliani. Al Haig. Condi Rice. Meg Whitman. The Cheney family (on gay marriage at any rate, not sure sure about choice although Dick Cheney has endorsed Kay Bailey Hutchison over Rick Perry).

I’m sure there are more; those are just off the top of my head.

Nov 1, 2009 - 11:26 am 54. Praetorian:

Marc Malone wrote: “Conservatives are not “out of the mainstream”

You confuse teabaggers (a whole different ideology) with conservatives (which come in varying shades). Scozzafava may not have been your brand of a conservative but she was a conservative on many issues. She was the endorsed candidate of the NRA, for instance, so I’m not really sure what YOU mean by conservative. I think conservative to you means a particular type of ideological purity.

Also only 20% of Americans identify themselves as Republicans and ultimately one needs the party machinery to get elected. Enforce your Stalinist ideological purity at your own peril. main street America won’t buy it no matter how hard you try to shove it down our throat.

Nov 1, 2009 - 11:27 am 55. Tom Perkins:

@ Praetorian

“She was the endorsed candidate of the NRA, for instance, so I’m not really sure what YOU mean by conservative.”

And it is still an open question as to whether or not NRA still stands for “negotiate rights away”. They originally attempted to stifle DC vs Heller. There’s scarcely any Stalinist ideological purity in the insistence the GOP not front candidates who endorse Democrats and are generally to the left of the Democrat party candidate.

And frankly, you’ll have to explain how the tea partiers are not conservative and how your all but necessarily derogatory use of “teabaggers” does not expose you as a person whose unsupported opinion most of us here should ignore, since it is bigoted against such self-evidently conservative political activity.

Nov 1, 2009 - 12:44 pm 56. Jeffrey:

“With no national Republican officeholder picking up the leadership mantle, it fell to talk show hosts and pundits to organize resistance to Obama’s plans. It may be argued whether this is truly a good idea, but it is hard to argue with success.” Good idea?
How about NO OTHER CHOICE?
As a stroke suffering Anthony Hopkins said in Legends of the Fall “screw em”
The cauldron of politico’s, bureaucrats and big government must be emptied and then ground to dust never to appear again or we lose our freedom our liberty and eventually our lives to the humanity hating, demon possessed, liberals of the world who first hate the God of the Bible and His Savior then hate all of those who cling to the Bible and their guns.
Yes most of the politicians are voting against their own constituents and the U.S. Constitution while lying about it.
Republicans have joined hands with the folks across the isle to grow government give themselves raises and tax the earners to death while creating a constituency of dependents relying on government largess (money taken from others at the point of a gun, just try not paying your taxes and see what happens to you).
They have destroyed the system of checks and balances and co-opted the main stream media as their propaganda machine. They have created a monster with an insatiable appetite that is so intimidating that good smart people say it can’t be undone.
Let me tell you that it can be undone like David undid Goliath with a well placed stone.
As we have all learned recently “too big to fail” is just a dream of the left. When they wake up there will be no such thing. They will be forced to change or die which is the very requirement they have set before us with their BS statements that say unless we do cap and trade we’ll all die on an over heated planet etc… (Big lies).
This is our power; THE TRUTH.
We still have the opportunity to peacefully throw all of the bums out and get rid of the unelected bureaucracy. Every freedom loving God fearing citizen must stand up and be counted for the truth and righteousness or we perish.
We have experienced a slow moving coup that has finally been exposed for all to see if we open our eyes.
It’s Time to stand and fight while we are still able to do so.

Nov 1, 2009 - 1:10 pm 57. baal:

53. arhooley:
52. Sherab Zangpo:
51. Marc Malone:
43. tanstaafl:
39. Donna V.:

OK people this is an important victory, but lets keep out eyes on the prize–and what is the prize? The prize is the reform of the republican party. I have spoken with some of you
about this and I’d like to hear from the rest of you about the PLEDGE.
In short, the PLEDGE is a binding agreement that would have to be signed by every elected republican official to NEVER engage in deficit spending, and to swear to never let one cent of deficit spending go un-fillibustered.
This is a REAL REFORM and this will scare the ossified cynical old toads that compromise the republican party brass more than anything!
We push this–and everything changes. Please respond to this and tell me what you think.
Again, this is about real reform, not simply about waiting for the democrats to implode out of their own excess.

Nov 1, 2009 - 1:20 pm 58. Jeffrey:

Poor Citizen

“anti working class views will never play well among the more educated, harder working parts of the country. However, in that part of NY?..of course it will. Good Luck to him !”

With statements like that it’s no wonder you are a poor citizen.
Good luck and God bless you. Jesus said we’d always have the poor among us. This provides an opportunity for people who work hard and are successful at it to share their wealth with the poor therefore allowing God to bless them (the successful and charitable) even more. So thanks for being who you are. It really does take all kinds.

Nov 1, 2009 - 1:28 pm 59. Donna V.:

Uh, Barry Goldwater?
Rudy Giuliani. Al Haig. Condi Rice. Meg Whitman. The Cheney family (on gay marriage at any rate, not sure sure about choice although Dick Cheney has endorsed Kay Bailey Hutchison over Rick Perry).

My bad, arhooley. I stand corrected. However, that list does not convince me that if the GOP alienates the socons, they’ll be a sure fire hit with everyone else. Ticking off one third of your base seems to be pretty bad strategy to me.

However, that doesn’t mean socon issues should be at the center of the debate. I was profoundly annoyed by the whole stupid controversy about Mormonism during the primaries. I have no time whatsoever for Huckabee, who is just as big a RINO as Dede – he likes Big Goverment and wants to be Preacher in Chief. I have a pastor, I don’t need one in the Oval Office.

Again, we should look to Reagan, the most successful politican the GOP has produced during the last 40 years. It’s the RINO’s who say we need to “get past” Reagan. He exemplified core values that all conservatives can believe in, and he didn’t toss the religious folks under the bus. It’s a question of emphasis.

Nov 1, 2009 - 1:53 pm 60. Meryl:

We sent money to Rubio in FL yesterday.

Praetorian: you still haven’t learned who “teabaggers” are? You’re not going to learn it from me. Go to a lib. They’ll tell you. They live it. If you intend to insult conservatives who attend tea parties, you might want to clarify that. As it is, you just come across either ignorant or nasty. Your choice.

Nov 1, 2009 - 1:59 pm 61. Praetorian:

Also, Scozzafava just STRONGLY endorsed Owen’s the Democrat. In the last poll Scozzafava was drawing around 20%. I would say that it would break slightly towards Owens. Republican women who largely share Scozzafava’s moderate social views would rather jump off a bridge than vote for Hoffman (especiall New York State ones). Hoffman is basically a coat hanger in a suit. At any rate, this recent development should make conservatives a bit nervous. Sounds like there is a strong possibility of you guys having a bunch of egg on your face Tuesday. But even if Hoffman wins the damage done by internecine party fighting will have been done.

Why is that religious conservatives like Hoffman have that far off vacant look in their eyes (look at Michelle Bachman also)? Real creepy. My guess is that the creepy factor will turn a lot of people off, especially women.

Nov 1, 2009 - 2:11 pm 62. Anonymous:

Republican = Conservative? Wow, what a concept! No more RINOs!

Nov 1, 2009 - 2:16 pm 63. inspectorudy:

Praetorian, you might not have a good grasp on things in the news. I have attended one of the larger tea party meetings in Atlanta and the ONE thing D’s, R’s and I’s had in common was the disgust with the unholy spending of Obama. You are like so many other libs in that you must demonize, (tea baggers), the tea party members because it is hard to realize that they are your fellow citizens who have reached their breaking point. As far as Scozzafava is concerned she is not now nor has she ever been a conservative. She may have called herself an R but she lied. As far as her being a moderate, a moderate what? She is a far left D. Owens approaches moderation long before DS does. If you plan to engage in online forums you might try to get some of the basic facts straight before hand.

Nov 1, 2009 - 2:23 pm 64. myth buster:

Being endorsed by the NRA makes Scozzafava a pro-gun liberal, not a conservative. She sucked. To the libertarians here, I must remind you that ours is government not by what people want, but by what people care about. For many social conservatives, being pro-life is non-negotiable; they will refuse to vote for a candidate who is not pro-life, even if it means that an even further left candidate will win. Why should we vote for the candidate you like, when he/she violates the principles we care about the most? We’d rather lose to the enemy without than the enemy within.

If you reject solid fiscal conservatives just because they hate abortion, the socons will wash their hands of this wickedness, and you’ll be stuck with permenant Democratic majorities. If, on the other hand, you accept the fact that most social conservatives are strong fiscal conservatives, and vica versa, you will preserve the liberty you hold dear.

Maybe we need three parties- one on the far right, one in the center, and one on the left. Finally, I’d like to remind everyone here that fiscal conservatives are the Johnny-come-latelies to the Republican Party, not social conservatives. We were here from the beginning, when the Republican Party was founded as the Anti-Slavery Party because the Whigs decided that slavery was no big deal. Well, now we have come full circle, with abortion replacing slavery. If you can’t vote for someone who wants to ban abortion, goodbye and good riddance; you are not pro-liberty.

Nov 1, 2009 - 2:26 pm 65. Donna V.:

baal, I think it’s a good idea.

Nov 1, 2009 - 2:38 pm 66. joe Kavanagh:

#3 Has to laugh has said it better than I could! The establishment republicans lost me 3 yrs ago. A woman’s right to choose was decided a long time ago , there is no changing that. I want people in office that understand that these figures that come out of these spending bills represent real dollars. I am all for a conservative backlash ,give to the candidateand forget the national party! I am going to support marco rubio in florida, as the RNC has already decided that Charlie Crist is their man. He loves stimulus bucks

Nov 1, 2009 - 2:54 pm 67. GoGardenState:

The new CW – per Yahoo news, where new MSM party lines get their first rinsing – is that its all about New Jersey now. NY23 seems to be basically conceded. Its an over-the-top all-in for NJ. It was just confirmed that Daggett is a stalking horse for Corzine, and Corzine is paying for Daggett robocalls. Its a charade. Sucky as Christie might be, he’s at least not Corzine. I would not be surprised if the hacktivists who got shipped up to Lake Placid last week are now heading down to the garden state to scare the bejesus out of the folks in Hackensack, Bergen County, Monmouth, etc.

Nov 1, 2009 - 2:55 pm 68. Dynomitejim:

#53

As a Texan, I am not excited about having Kay Bailey run for Governor. Kay is a moderate, and an exact representation of the misdirected Gop. I wish Kay Bailey would change her mind, she is trying to get back home to be close to her family. Another career politician, doing whats best for Kay at the expense of her country.

Nov 1, 2009 - 2:59 pm 69. cedarhill:

Why does anyone bother responding to leftie trolls like Praetorian on this site. Just ignore them.

Dede did make the GOP bosses first look like panderers then incompetent and finally what they may very well be – out of touch political idiots.

Nov 1, 2009 - 3:08 pm 70. SukieTawdry:

You mean there are “good conservatives” who still donate to the RNC and NRCC? Huh.

Being on the right side of second amendment rights does not a conservative make. There are any number of cold-dead-hands gun owners who vote straight ticket Democratic. Scozzafava careens off the conservative track when it comes to bedrock issues like spending and taxation. She supports across-the-board spending increases (except for law enforcement–which leads one to wonder where she’ll stand on national defense). She would have voted for Porkulus. She supports Card Check and gives the impression that she’s very much the union stooge. She’s a member of one of the most incompetent, irresponsible legislatures in the country, fercrissakes. We don’t need any more like her in Congress.

Nov 1, 2009 - 3:10 pm 71. Ed Wallis:

Author: “In short, the system is rigged against outsiders who want to horn their way in on the party’s action.”

This guy just doesn’t get it.

It’s the RINOs and “country clubbers” (occasionally one and the same) who are the interlopers and who have “horned in.”

Conservatives have merely taken back what is rightfully theirs (not that I expect the author to comprehend this).

Nov 1, 2009 - 3:25 pm 72. baal:

65. Donna V.:Thanks for pinging me back on that! Just think (and I know I’m TOTALLY guilty of this) if this forum was less about stomping the trolls and about us–conservatives, rightwingers,libertarians, all discussing IDEAS for how to reinvent the republican party to actually represent their constituency!

Nov 1, 2009 - 3:51 pm 73. Now and Then:

Hey, an American won the NYC Marathon for the first time in 27 tears . . . .BOOOOOOO!

Nov 1, 2009 - 3:59 pm 74. DoctorT:

Now that “We, the American People” have sent the message to the Republican Party we may see an opportunity to get back to conservative principles.

But, before that can happen the takeover of the Healthcare system and the headlong run toward socialism must be headed off. I am a solo practitioner in a small rural community and I can tell everyone that the current healthcare bill will close down the hospital, put me out of business and deprive a rural community and 30 miles around it of healthcare.

We need millions to march on Washington DC this week. After this week it will be too late. Although it may cause distress to the community as I go to Washington, it will be nothing compared to what the community will experience if I don’t.

Nov 1, 2009 - 4:09 pm 75. Tom Perkins:

“It was just confirmed that Daggett is a stalking horse for Corzine, and Corzine is paying for Daggett robocalls. Its a charade.”

How is that sourced?

Nov 1, 2009 - 4:10 pm 76. arhooley:

57. baal:

Nov 1, 2009 - 4:28 pm 77. arhooley:

57. baal:

It sounds like a good idea to me. So what’s the next step?

Nov 1, 2009 - 4:29 pm 78. arhooley:

59. Donna V.:

Please pardon my snarky tone. The issue is an emotional one and I get my hackles up sometimes.

I agree that social issues should not be at the center of the debate — not for solibs either. I’ve sent money to Rubio and Palin myself, and Mary Cheney has pointed out that she doesn’t have the luxury of being a single-issue voter. None of us do.

Nov 1, 2009 - 4:37 pm 79. Fantom:

“44. Poor Citizen:
……….. christian extremist…..”

You mean “Christian Extremist” like feeding the poor, turning the other cheek , treating thy fellow man as you would be treated kind of extremism?

No wonder you hate Conservatives so. We are proven to be more caring, commpassionate, and giving than you lieberals.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html

Nov 1, 2009 - 4:54 pm 80. Tex Expatriate:

I think the author does not understand that the Conservative Party in New York has been there for years for the purpose of correcting Republicans when they go “liberal.” They have elected representatives at least once and maybe twice. I do suspect that NY-23 is a harbinger of what is happening nationwide.

But, hey, this is New York State, a state not notable for voting sensibly. Ever.

Nov 1, 2009 - 5:23 pm 81. westerncanadian:

In the original Hopalong Cassidy books by Clarence E. Mulford the author put these interesting words into the mouth of his fictional Texas Ranger – “One Texan is worth ten Americans”. To my mind, Mulford was saying that one stubborn, take action, self reliant, competent person was worth ten “go along to get along individuals”. In the context of NY23 one could rephrase the Texan’s words as “one conservative is worth ten liberal republicans”.

Nov 1, 2009 - 5:26 pm 82. baal:

77. arhooley:

Arhooley, sorry about that I posted this reply on the last article that you replied to me on:

The next step is we keep talking about the PLEDGE until they ban us from the site, get our own columns on it on this site, or we somehow get it to be a main rallying point of the conservative/libertarian/teaparty movement.
We talk about it on every single new posting on this site for starts-and when one of us brings it up the rest of us jump on board for the conversation.

Nov 1, 2009 - 6:02 pm 83. baal:

Imagine, my friends, if you will the following scenario: Every single single item of deficit spending which appears in congress gets filibustered by the republican legislators, every single item of deficit spending which arrives at the desk of a republican executive gets vetoed.
That Is what the PLEDGE would do. The PLEDGE is simply rewriting the rules of the game. It would be a violation of the constitution to say that a political party may not require a binding pledge from its elected legislators and executives forbidding deficit spending under penalty of immediate, unconditional, and permanent expulsion from the party.

1.)The only republican that would oppose this idea is one whose fingers are in the cookie jar.
2.)The only person that says that government cannot live within its means is a person who does not want government to live within its means.

Pick a side!

Nov 1, 2009 - 6:12 pm 84. EscapeVelocity:

Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammunition!

Nov 1, 2009 - 6:41 pm 85. Donna V.:

65. Just think (and I know I’m TOTALLY guilty of this) if this forum was less about stomping the trolls and about us–conservatives, rightwingers,libertarians, all discussing IDEAS for how to reinvent the republican party to actually represent their constituency!

Yes. While troll-stomping is great fun, it doesn’t really accomplish much. Neither does just complaining about the latest horror from the Obama camp.

A new Contract with America is needed. (Unfortunately, the author of the first one has forgotten its principles.) And this one should come from the people, not the pols.

So yes, I think you’re on the right track, although I’m not sure what the next step should be.

What all of us can do (if you haven’t done it already): let the RNC know that you will give only to individual candidates who are true conservatives, not to the RNC. Money talks, folks. If I were a conservative who had donated to the RNC and saw them dump a mil into Dede’s campaign, I’d be fit to be tied.

Nov 1, 2009 - 6:42 pm 86. silversurfer:

Praetorian wrote: “Enforce your Stalinist ideological purity at your own peril. main street America won’t buy it no matter how hard you try to shove it down our throat.”

Well, I don’t know ’bout ‘main street America’, as you describe it, Praetorian BUT -

I ain’t about to let some of my fellow human beings (so-called “lawmakers” or bureaucrats or so-called “experts” or celebrities or so-called “scientists” or professorial intelligentsia or activist so-called “leader” or some community “organizer” or publisher or news direcor, ET AL.) tell me what type of lightbulbs, vehicles, diesel generators, shopping bags, auto glass, auto paint, thermostat, fireplace, shower, toilet, lawn, barbecue, jacuzzi, firearm, ammunition, laundry & dish detergent, tobacco, ET AL. that I can use IN MY FREAKIN’ LIFE!

I see the nanny state, micro-managing, control freak, would-be ‘puppet master’ so-called “progressives” as the idealogy that’s trying to shove all of their way of life down MY throat!

Count on me to disobey, defy, rebel, ignore, break regulations, break rules, break laws, scoff at restrictions, earn cash “off the books”, jump fences, lift parking lot gates and drive underneath free of charge, sneak in the back door of movie theaters, grow my own, roll my own, smoke my own, ET AL. Drive hot rods, ride off-road motorcycles, take LONG HOT SHOWERS, illuminate my living and work space with 150 WATT INCANDESCENT bulbs, place ENDLESS LOGS IN MY FIREPLACE, set my thermostat wherever the h*ll I FREAKIN’ DECIDE, ET AL.

The rest of you so-called “know-it-alls” need to realize, I WILL NEVER BEHAVE IN THE MANNER THAT YOU DESIRE ME TO…..never. Put that in your hookah and puff, Jackson.

Are y’all as stoked on this time of year as I am? I absolutely LOVE autumn rolling on into the Holidays…always have since I was in diapers. I’m free as a soaring peregine falcon and there isn’t a thing anybody can do ’bout it….BOOOYAAAH!

Nov 1, 2009 - 7:11 pm 87. RKV:

If you can’t vote for someone who wants the federal government out of controlling abortion one way or another you can leave the Republican Party. If you abandon Federalism to use the government to enforce your religious principles go the hell away.

Nov 1, 2009 - 7:29 pm 88. ked5:

I don’t know if it’s been posted here yet, but d(umb)d(umb) has just endorsed Owens. Hopefully THAT will be a wake-up call for the RNC about choosing RINO’s – but don’t hold your breath. It will for sure infuriate the rest of the conservative base.

Nov 1, 2009 - 8:04 pm 89. pjean:

Can someone define a moderate conservative? I believe that they do exist and they deserve to be represented. We need to understand that there are principles that unite us and that although some members are both fiscally and socially conservative, those beliefs should not alone dictate a conservative party platform. Social issues like abortion and gay marriage need some clear separation of church and state solutions while still staying true to conservative beliefs.

Nov 1, 2009 - 9:08 pm 90. jodetoad:

Dr. T, I wish I could go to Washington from CA, can’t manage it. I spoke with a couple physicians in my rural area, and both plan to retire if the bill is passed. What the few other doctors would do, or how it effects our hospital I don’t know. But losing even 2 doctors in our area would mean big trouble.

Thanks for your effort, and good luck.

Nov 1, 2009 - 10:29 pm 91. Anonymous:

#79 Fatntom – Thanks for the link. I used to have that on my computer, before it crashed.

I have a crazy thought. When folks are doing their volunteering, why not have a nametag that says simply “Conservative”? When people see these things wherever good deeds are done, maybe the message will get through far more than raw data.

Nov 2, 2009 - 12:11 am 92. Marc Malone:

#79 Fantom – A follow-up thought. When folks volunteer, why not wear a nametag that simply says, “Conservative”? When people start seeing these wherever good deeds are done, maybe then the message will get through far better than with raw statistics.

Nov 2, 2009 - 12:13 am 93. Fantom:

Marc, that would be a hilarious idea. We would see liberals handing out condoms to kids and Conservatives feeding the poor.

64. myth buster: Well said sir. Abortion is todays slavery is an apt comparison. One does not have to be “Religious” to oppose either. Without the right to life there are no liberties. One need look no further than our Declaration of Independence,

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”

To see that Life is the First unalienable right our Creator gave us. Next comes the proper reason for Government…

“That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men,”

So it would appear we are well within the bounds of propriety to use government to stop the killing/murder of our most vulnerable people. And that doing so is both noble and conservative. Not to mention just, the Right to Life overides and comes before the persuit of happiness/abortion.

Nov 2, 2009 - 5:02 am 94. Charles Kirtley:

Headline in today’s WSJ:

“Beltway bigs misjudged public dismay against the Democratic agenda in Washington”

WRONG!! Should be:

“Beltway bigs misjudged public dismay against the Republican agenda in Washington.”

Nov 2, 2009 - 5:35 am 95. bill:

One of the primary reasons for Hoffman’s rise was early polling and ads by CLUB FOR GROWTH

Nov 2, 2009 - 6:47 am 96. EscapeVelocity:

Social issues like abortion and gay marriage need some clear separation of church and state solutions while still staying true to conservative beliefs. — pjean

See pjean, this is the thing, first you have to understand what the establishment clause means…..it doesnt mean that Christian metaphysics, ethics, and morality be banished from informing law, participating in government policy making or from the public sphere.

Nov 2, 2009 - 7:09 am 97. Mr Lucky:

29. Now and Then.

“Conservatives had no choice but to say, “Oh, yeah, well, we reject all that bad stuff too, honest. those crazy, divisive, destructive things we were supporting for the last six, seven years, that wasn’t us.”

“No choice”? Do modern liberals have a choice about how they characterize the present administration?

Do you have the ability to change your mind as facts present themselves going into the future?

Are you so self identified with the “last six, seven years” that you cannot recognize that we live in a time apart from that time?

Catch any flies today Mr. Renfield? Are you still hungry? Or are they now just wingless?

How’s the video game coming along?

Nov 2, 2009 - 7:31 am 98. SteveB/Colorado:

#47 blotto: you seem to think I’m not a conservative because I don’t share your views exactly. Well, there is more than one form of conservative. “…your final paragraph (on abortion) summarizes your position well, right from the DNC platform….” Actually, I was taking my cue from the founder of the modern conservative movement, the late Senator Barry Goldwater, who was strongly pro-choice.

“…garbage from the left trying to make it seem like there are two kinds of conservative, fiscal & social. You cannot be one exclusively without the other…..” Not true. Let’s look at some reality.

The Republican Party in Colorado has been controlled by the social values/anti-gay rights/anti-abortion faction for some years. They control what’s in the party platform.

Since 2004, thanks in large part to inept & heavy-handed leadership from the social values group, Republicans have lost the governorship, a Senate seat, two House seats (including Marilyn Musgrave), and for the first time in over 40 years, lost control of both houses of the State Legislature. In 2008, Focus on the Family and other radical right groups tried to amend the state constitution to say that a fertilized egg was a “person,” with all the rights thereon. The initiative lost by a 27% to 73% margin.

The hard core social values agenda that blotto and other PJM posters advocate doesn’t play well here. What will play is a pragmatic & moderate agenda that advocates conservative fiscal policy, individual freedoms, job creation with moderate economic growth (boom & bust cycles damage our state economy), and a balance between exploiting & conserving our wonderful natural environment.

In short, the “shotgun wedding” of fiscal conservatives and social values advocates hasn’t worked here and won’t in the future. The three Republican candidates for governor in the 2010 election cycle realize that. To the dismay of the hard core social values group, their collective focus is away from the divisive social issues.

p.s. to blotto: check out the web site of Americans United for Separation of Church & State, headed by an ordained Christian minister, for issues re role of religion in our society. Read recent issues of Church & State magazine, posted on the site.

Nov 2, 2009 - 9:24 am 99. masstexodus:

I give to PACs (Club for Growth and the like) or to the candidates. After the Lincoln Chaffee debacle a couple of years ago the national GOP will never get my money again.

Nov 2, 2009 - 9:54 am 100. Avitar:

There are party professional in both parties that see their job as marketing an audiance of the gulllible to special interests. When someone won’t sit still for that they want to get rid of them.
Like television network entertainment executives in the 1960’s they are willing to vary the programning a little to suit the tastes of the audiance but anything that is not inside of standards and practices get canceled regardless of how high its ratings.

The next step is for the New York Republicans to permeanently cancel the Party Chairs who selected Dede “I like communists” because if they will do it once they will do it again.

Nov 2, 2009 - 10:02 am 101. B Dubya:

I live and vote in NY23.
What settled it for me was not the revelations that Scozzifava is a RINO, that she has the backing of the ACORN family of political criminals, or that she was picked by a room full of NY Republicans (itself an unindicted conspiracy to defraud and loot NY taxpayers indistinguishable from the NY Democrats). What settled me was when John McHugh voted yes for that abortion of a carbon cap and trade bill, just before he Spectred out an took Obama’s Secretary of the Army offer. May he rot in the hell of turncoats for all eternity.
No man or woman of principles that subscribe to the party of Lincoln would possibly do that. That was a breach of faith with me that was irreconcilable. I will NEVER again vote for a progressive of any stripe. NEVER.
So you see, the question was setttled long before Scozzafava crawled out from under her rock and long before the expected conservative showed up.

Nov 2, 2009 - 10:28 am 102. Real Deal:

Basically the Federal Government has no business in passing laws about marriage, and is shaky ground on abortion. If you believe it is murder then the Federal government does have the right to make laws regarding it, if you do not believe it is murder then the Federal government has no Constitutional power to pass legislation on it.

I’m fiscally conservative, and pretty socially conservative for the most part. Homosexuals are not discriminated against in regards to marriage, to say so is a lie. A heterosexual cannot marry another person of the same sex nor can a homosexual marry another person of the same sex. I can marry one women, they can also marry one individual of the opposite sex. The laws are applied equally to both heterosexuals and homosexuals. Now that does not mean they cannot be accommodated with some other form of legal union that covers same sex relations.

As for abortion there are instances where it is acceptable; rape, incest, threat to the mothers life, or severe disability, but never as birth control or an “oops”. So no it should not be wholly illegal, but it definitely should be restricted, especially in today’s society where birth control is easily availiable, the morning after pill is available, and there many people on waiting lists to adopt a infant.

As to NY – 23 I’m glad, we need true conservatives getting elected not Leftists with a GOP/Conservative mask on during the campaign.

Nov 2, 2009 - 10:29 am 103. lonesomecharlie:

Analyze all you want, but this race is nothing more than a checkers game on the Titanic.

By October 2010, there will be no remedies left.

Nov 2, 2009 - 11:09 am 104. Doug Hoffman for Congress: principle over party (2) « O Insurgente:

[...] ‘Unruly’ Conservatives Shock the GOP in NY-23 Two weeks ago, a betting man would have given you pretty good odds for Dede Scozzafava to win the special election in New York’s 23rd congressional district against the Democrat Bill Owens and Doug Hoffman, a little-known accountant running on the Conservative Party ballot line. But, in what may be a harbinger of how wacky and wonderful the 2010 midterm elections might be, Scozzafava, after dropping in the polls to a distant third, has suspended her campaign and the previously unknown Hoffman appears to be the favorite to take the seat. [...]

Nov 2, 2009 - 12:27 pm 105. deguello:

HI Y’ALL!Boy is Mr.Fox MAD!He says he wasted all the money he gave to the RNC,and he is vowing to take it out of my hide. I am really worried,I can’t even talk right,aside from the retardation,cause my tongue is so wore out from shining Vicente’s boots;he won’t let me use a rag,he says that’s for Laura to use on the silver.I think I gotta call daddy and see if he can give Hoffman some kind of ” present”so he votes for open borders.Bye now,Mr Soros has arrived(he’s angry too),I gotta take his bags! BYE! George(decider)Bush,Fox Estancia(servant quarters),Cancun, Mexico.

Nov 2, 2009 - 1:45 pm 106. Knotacommie:

The Arctic Fox strikes. Sarah Palin endorses the CONSERVATIVE and his numbers skyrocket. Saracudas book is already #1 on Amazon AND ITS NOT EVEN RELEASED YET. The Fat Oprah wants the Arctic Fox on her show to improve her sagging ratings. I guess Saracuda must be galvanizing our side. Good. About time someone does. Newt Gingrich certainly cant. John Mcshame is Dede Scuuzyphobia without the dress. Lindsay Gramnasty is Joe Biden without the gaffes. Right now, its the Arctic Fox and Doug Hoffman. Watch out Charlie Crist. We want Marco Rubio and you are in our sights.

Nov 2, 2009 - 1:47 pm 107. deguello:

Lonesome Charlie :Go ahead,and rationalize; dreamland loves libtards. By the way,no need to be lonely,just take your penicillin.That way,you can stop watching Obama speeches hoping for the cheap masturbatory thrills up your leg that must substitute for normal contact with the opposite sex.

Nov 2, 2009 - 1:50 pm 108. deguello:

I’M MELTING! I’M MELTING! NEWT(REPTILE)GINGRICH

Nov 2, 2009 - 1:55 pm 109. deguello:

#24 DR.MATT:BIG MONEY HAND? Behind Hoffman?You mean like George Soro’s hand stuck so far up Obama’s butt,in sock puppet style,that he repeats Soros’world government Stalinist claptrap on cue?Keep trying to rain on our parade libtard creep!You lost the 23rd!

Nov 2, 2009 - 2:03 pm 110. ricpic:

The existence of genuine conservatives, many of them, is a shocker to Rick Moran.

Nov 2, 2009 - 2:27 pm 111. KSJ:

Rick Moran wrote: “Could the magic being performed in NY-23 be sprinkled like fairy dust across the country? Could other conservatives achieve success in their campaigns? Nothing is out of the question, but history and practical politics makes it a longshot.”

Rick, you may be right, but we have to do whatever is within our power to get conservatives elected, and I think New York is a good place to start.

I see the possibility of something similar to NY23 happening in Illinois with the Feb. 2, 2010 Republican governor’s primary. There are many fine candidates, but only one who is the “real deal” conservative. My brother and I haven’t spoken for months, and just as he was sending me an email endorsing Adam Andrzejewski, I was posting a comment to an American Thinker article endorsing him.

I think the Internet has changed the game.

http://www.adamforillinois.com/

Nov 2, 2009 - 2:39 pm 112. Jim Baker:

If Hoffman wins, the GOP will have as much to learn from it as the commun…oops… Democrats.

Nov 2, 2009 - 3:44 pm 113. Now and Then:

109 of guello:

“Keep trying to rain on our parade libtard creep!You lost the 23rd!”

I’m sure that you, of guello, knows – The district (including its predecessors) hasn’t been represented by a Democrat since 1871. Some areas of the district haven’t been represented by a Democrat since 1851, when the Whig Party still existed.(Wiki)

That’s quite a parade. Hey, I hear Alabama is a toss up in 2012! Cross your fiiiingers.

Nov 2, 2009 - 4:51 pm 114. Tennwriter:

We should all be tough, principled, and clever like the fish-cons and their hero, the Governator who has done so well in California.

Oops.

Can I have an abortion on this statement?

Fiscons need to get real.

Nov 2, 2009 - 9:59 pm 115. Tom Perkins:

tennwriter, what makes you think conservatives of any sort are happy with the governator?

Nov 3, 2009 - 4:12 am 116. deguello:

#113 NOW&THEn(his vd acts up) Dear infected one:Thanks(not) for the needless,and pedantic history lesson.Are you that naive, or is your brain so damaged by rampaging spyrochetes, that you believe that Schifosa is a real republican? Oh I forgot,you also think Obama is smart, and Castro is a great man.Take your penicillin! Deguello

Nov 3, 2009 - 6:18 am 117. Now and Then:

116. deguello:

Okay, of guello, since you choose to hum over the song of truth regarding NY 23, here’s another one for you – Virginia has voted opposite of the most recent presidential election eight times in a row, since the 1970s.

But please, have your Spin Parade. “Oh, it’s seismic! We haven’t seen anything like it since, well, almost two years ago!”

Nov 3, 2009 - 7:00 am 118. syn:

“The hard core social values agenda that blotto and other PJM posters advocate doesn’t play well here. What will play is a pragmatic & moderate agenda that advocates conservative fiscal policy, individual freedoms, job creation with moderate economic growth (boom & bust cycles damage our state economy), and a balance between exploiting & conserving our wonderful natural environment.”

Are you saying Roe vs Wade is not the one of the most INTRUSIVE GOVERNMENT ATTACKS upon the right of individual liberty since the founding of the Republic? Not one single American ever receive their right to vote on the one single issue which is now a law of the land by judicial fiat!

Are you saying that ‘raising one’s hand to fradulent Climate Change’ is fiscally conservative?

Are you saying ’same-sex union between opposite sex’ is logical and holds meaning?

What in the heck are you saying; your words are thoroughly confusing your own use of the words ‘pragmatic & moderate’.

The problem is too many Darwinian apes with Ivy-League Law degrees are turning this fine Republic into a basket case of rotting bananas; all meaning of even the most simplest of words are lost to apes wearing robes.

Nov 3, 2009 - 8:14 am 119. Now and Then:

Hoffman concedes. I guess this means I’ll be the last poster to this thread.

Nov 3, 2009 - 9:16 pm 120. Marc Malone:

Hoffman has conceded, but there are a LOT of votes to be counted. Still, I’m fine with it. The lesson is perhaps even greater for the GOP. They lost a seat that they need not have, because they crossed the line. They’d completely abandoned the Party principles in order to win an election. They’d bought into the Leftist meme of “running Centrists”. Anything for power. Apparently, McCain losing wasn’t message enough. Notice has been served. You uphold the Party principles, or you lose.

It is a shame Hoffman lost, however. Congress could use an honest accountant. Just sayin’.

Nov 4, 2009 - 12:30 am 121. goy:

Marc – one other trivia note: Owens has campaigned against the public option. So his rather bumpy win on that basis doesn’t do anything in terms of shoring up Congressional support for socialized medicine.

This is significant, because socialized medicine is the deal-breaker for this Republic, and both sides know it. BHO has virtually staked his presidency on passage of socialized medicine because he knows it’s the key to the left’s future dominance of America. Now it looks like it’s going to become a midterm campaign issue, which is the last thing he, Pelosi and Reid wanted: shades of HillaryCare’s demise in the ‘94 midterm campaign season (not to mention, uhm, the outcome of the ‘94 midterm campaign season).

So the only thing we did NOT get out of the NY23 race was a seat in Congress… for a year. Having traded that for slapping down the GOP sellouts and publicly revealing their craven choice (DIABLO Dede) for who and what she was (Arlen in unfashionable drag), I think there’s plenty of reason to feel good about it.

Nov 4, 2009 - 8:18 am 122. Glenn:

Absolutely right! On the money all the way! Huffman did achieve a triumph for the conservative movement. He caused the Democratic candidate to win in a district with 45,000 more Republicans than Democrats. He handed the Democrats a district that was held by the Republicans since 1871. This is exactly what “movement conservatives” are doing to the Republican Party. The Grand Old Party is being devoured from within by clerical fascists, religious fanatics, and illiterate Palinites. Until the Republican Party purges itself of these Luddites, it will be a minority party, and a shrinking minority, at that.

Nov 8, 2009 - 12:39 pm

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