Comments on: U.S.-Iraq Negotiations Come Down to the Wire http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/us-iraq-negotiations-come-down-to-the-wire/ Mon, 23 Nov 2009 01:15:53 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Marc Malone http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/us-iraq-negotiations-come-down-to-the-wire/comment-page-1/#comment-138396 Marc Malone Wed, 29 Oct 2008 08:08:29 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=36943#comment-138396 Saltmine - It's not that they don't understand it. It's a normal consideration in the third world. That's how tribalism works. Hussein had his sons in charge of the military for a reason. The big concern is a reversion to civil war. The Shia would love to dominate the Sunni. Why bother sharing? In the third world, you support your family, period. Your family supports your tribe/sect, period. You rise or fall together. You don't reach out to the other tribe. You don't hire other tribesmen if there is anyone from your tribe needing work, be he however incompetent. The other tribesmen get the scut jobs. Only our presence convinces them to try to learn new behavior patterns, that is, democracy and power-and-revenue-sharing. That's why the victory is still fragile. We've won the war. We've had 15 casualties in Iraq this month, mostly non-combat. It's over. Now, we must win the peace. Saltmine – It’s not that they don’t understand it. It’s a normal consideration in the third world. That’s how tribalism works. Hussein had his sons in charge of the military for a reason.

The big concern is a reversion to civil war. The Shia would love to dominate the Sunni. Why bother sharing? In the third world, you support your family, period. Your family supports your tribe/sect, period. You rise or fall together. You don’t reach out to the other tribe. You don’t hire other tribesmen if there is anyone from your tribe needing work, be he however incompetent. The other tribesmen get the scut jobs.

Only our presence convinces them to try to learn new behavior patterns, that is, democracy and power-and-revenue-sharing. That’s why the victory is still fragile. We’ve won the war. We’ve had 15 casualties in Iraq this month, mostly non-combat. It’s over. Now, we must win the peace.

]]> By: Saltmine http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/us-iraq-negotiations-come-down-to-the-wire/comment-page-1/#comment-136649 Saltmine Mon, 27 Oct 2008 02:41:49 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=36943#comment-136649 It is perfectly clear that the primary threat of a coup is from the Iraqi army. A modest garrison of American military strategically placed would be sufficient to greatly reduce the threat of an army coup. Can't the civilian Iraqi government authorities understand this? It is perfectly clear that the primary threat of a coup is from the Iraqi army. A modest garrison of American military strategically placed would be sufficient to greatly reduce the threat of an army coup. Can’t the civilian Iraqi government authorities understand this?

]]> By: Ex-fetus http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/us-iraq-negotiations-come-down-to-the-wire/comment-page-1/#comment-136613 Ex-fetus Mon, 27 Oct 2008 00:51:18 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=36943#comment-136613 Bring the troops home, we need them here for the counter coup against Obama bin Biden. Bring the troops home, we need them here for the counter coup against Obama bin Biden.

]]> By: NS http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/us-iraq-negotiations-come-down-to-the-wire/comment-page-1/#comment-136528 NS Sun, 26 Oct 2008 20:12:08 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=36943#comment-136528 It is pretty clear that the Iraqis are stalling because they DONT want a SOFA agreement- not just by the end of this year - not EVER. Maliki could have shown some leadership here - he has chosen not to. It is pretty clear now why he basically sandbagged McCain back in July by saying that he agreed with Obama on a 16 month deadline for withdrawal. Obama wanted troops out in 16 months after he assumes Presidency no matter what the situation on the ground is. It is possible that he will ask Maliki to agree to extend the UN mandate by 18 months and then withdraw all troops within that time. The US is not going to give the Iraqis the right to prosecute US soldiers - its just not going to happen.Its not going to agree to any other crazy conditions either. So this charade will end when Maliki announces that he is going to request for an extension of the UN mandate after Obama's victory is officially declared. SCARY. It is pretty clear that the Iraqis are stalling because they DONT want a SOFA agreement- not just by the end of this year – not EVER. Maliki could have shown some leadership here – he has chosen not to. It is pretty clear now why he basically sandbagged McCain back in July by saying that he agreed with Obama on a 16 month deadline for withdrawal.

Obama wanted troops out in 16 months after he assumes Presidency no matter what the situation on the ground is. It is possible that he will ask Maliki to agree to extend the UN mandate by 18 months and then withdraw all troops within that time.

The US is not going to give the Iraqis the right to prosecute US soldiers – its just not going to happen.Its not going to agree to any other crazy conditions either.

So this charade will end when Maliki announces that he is going to request for an extension of the UN mandate after Obama’s victory is officially declared.

SCARY.

]]> By: Brian H http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/us-iraq-negotiations-come-down-to-the-wire/comment-page-1/#comment-136044 Brian H Sat, 25 Oct 2008 22:04:15 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=36943#comment-136044 Nah, it's just Iraqis having a little fun playing brinkmanship. Isn't it exciting? Nah, it’s just Iraqis having a little fun playing brinkmanship. Isn’t it exciting?

]]> By: Marc Malone http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/us-iraq-negotiations-come-down-to-the-wire/comment-page-1/#comment-136040 Marc Malone Sat, 25 Oct 2008 21:54:23 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=36943#comment-136040 This will all clear up after the election. If McCain gets elected, the agreement will be signed, as the detrators know that this is the best deal they'll get. If Obama gets elected, it will go down in defeat, as everyone maneuvers for a power-grab. Tribal poilitics will become dominant once again. The resulting chaos will be blamed by Obama of the inability of Bush to get an agreement signed. He also will not interfere further in the subsequent collapse of the Iraqi government, "not wanting to shed any more American troops' lives over there, trying to fix Bush's mistake". Imagine: all that effort and sacrifice for naught. This will all clear up after the election. If McCain gets elected, the agreement will be signed, as the detrators know that this is the best deal they’ll get. If Obama gets elected, it will go down in defeat, as everyone maneuvers for a power-grab. Tribal poilitics will become dominant once again.

The resulting chaos will be blamed by Obama of the inability of Bush to get an agreement signed. He also will not interfere further in the subsequent collapse of the Iraqi government, “not wanting to shed any more American troops’ lives over there, trying to fix Bush’s mistake”.

Imagine: all that effort and sacrifice for naught.

]]> By: Robert L. Mayo http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/us-iraq-negotiations-come-down-to-the-wire/comment-page-1/#comment-135947 Robert L. Mayo Sat, 25 Oct 2008 19:07:28 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=36943#comment-135947 As previously reported, during his trip to Iraq Sen. Obama privately asked members of the Iraqi government to block a status of forces agreement with the Bush administration. He may get his wish. If, after coming so close to victory, Sen. Obama's interference produces a coup, or civil war against Iranian domination, his Presidency will be destroyed as the man who lost Iraq. As previously reported, during his trip to Iraq Sen. Obama privately asked members of the Iraqi government to block a status of forces agreement with the Bush administration. He may get his wish.

If, after coming so close to victory, Sen. Obama’s interference produces a coup, or civil war against Iranian domination, his Presidency will be destroyed as the man who lost Iraq.

]]> By: 888 http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/us-iraq-negotiations-come-down-to-the-wire/comment-page-1/#comment-135836 888 Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:39:24 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=36943#comment-135836 The signing of the SOFA by both parties will be a breakthrough, watershed event and will pave the way to a more stable, peaceful and prosperous Iraq just like the SOFAs with South Korea, Japan and Germany did the same for those US allies. There will still be many small bumps along the way to stability in the country and region, but, at least, continued US presence in Iraq will serve as a deterrent to the dangerous, nuclear ambitions of next door neighbor, Iran, and radical Islamic terrorist factions throughout the Middle East. If Obama wins, he will be disastrous for the region and the gains made thus far because he will significantly draw down the military as he has pledged to do, so he can use Defense funding for his trillion dollar domestic social spending program. But it is our military's presence throughout the Gulf/Southwest Asia and to the south (from Iraq, Bahrain, Qatar, UAE to Africa) that is keeping the fragile peace throughout the volatile region. By throwing in the white flag of surrender, retreat and defeat, Obama could very well cause massive chaos, civil war, and destabilization. Plus, all the American and allied lives lost and injured there in defense of freedom will have been for naught. The signing of the SOFA by both parties will be a breakthrough, watershed event and will pave the way to a more stable, peaceful and prosperous Iraq just like the SOFAs with South Korea, Japan and Germany did the same for those US allies. There will still be many small bumps along the way to stability in the country and region, but, at least, continued US presence in Iraq will serve as a deterrent to the dangerous, nuclear ambitions of next door neighbor, Iran, and radical Islamic terrorist factions throughout the Middle East.

If Obama wins, he will be disastrous for the region and the gains made thus far because he will significantly draw down the military as he has pledged to do, so he can use Defense funding for his trillion dollar domestic social spending program. But it is our military’s presence throughout the Gulf/Southwest Asia and to the south (from Iraq, Bahrain, Qatar, UAE to Africa) that is keeping the fragile peace throughout the volatile region. By throwing in the white flag of surrender, retreat and defeat, Obama could very well cause massive chaos, civil war, and destabilization. Plus, all the American and allied lives lost and injured there in defense of freedom will have been for naught.

]]> By: john from cinncinati http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/us-iraq-negotiations-come-down-to-the-wire/comment-page-1/#comment-135743 john from cinncinati Sat, 25 Oct 2008 12:34:35 +0000 http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=36943#comment-135743 what did Obama tell these guys? when full sharia law gets under way in Iraq they will wish for the bad Americans again. Oh when are the Iraqi's going to stand up. America cleaned house and now the bad spirits want to come back in, if they do it will be much worse than even when Saddam was in charge. the fatwas are coming from outside of Iraq? do you think they are in Iraq's best interest, they want to conquer Iraq without being viewed as occupiers. what did Obama tell these guys? when full sharia law gets under way in Iraq they will wish for the bad Americans again. Oh when are the Iraqi’s going to stand up. America cleaned house and now the bad spirits want to come back in, if they do it will be much worse than even when Saddam was in charge. the fatwas are coming from outside of Iraq? do you think they are in Iraq’s best interest, they want to conquer Iraq without being viewed as occupiers.

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