<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Waltz with Bashir, Nazi Germany, and Israel</title>
	<atom:link href="http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/waltz-with-bashir-nazi-germany-and-israel/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/waltz-with-bashir-nazi-germany-and-israel/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 08:29:23 -0800</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Freddy</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/waltz-with-bashir-nazi-germany-and-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-359866</link>
		<dc:creator>Freddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=47167#comment-359866</guid>
		<description>What a bizarre, paranoid and vitriolic rant on the part of Mr. Rosenthal. The efforts gone to to try and discredit this film are startling in their hollowness and frankly repulsive ad hominem attacks. However, I take some comfort in the fact that the only people who ever attempt to write such brain dead emotionally driven nonsense exist in this strange American dream world. There is a reason why the United States appears to the rest of the world as a country of red necked closet Nazis despite the many reasonable voices of people like the previous poster Alex M</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a bizarre, paranoid and vitriolic rant on the part of Mr. Rosenthal. The efforts gone to to try and discredit this film are startling in their hollowness and frankly repulsive ad hominem attacks. However, I take some comfort in the fact that the only people who ever attempt to write such brain dead emotionally driven nonsense exist in this strange American dream world. There is a reason why the United States appears to the rest of the world as a country of red necked closet Nazis despite the many reasonable voices of people like the previous poster Alex M</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Alex M.</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/waltz-with-bashir-nazi-germany-and-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-289961</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:31:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=47167#comment-289961</guid>
		<description>What a pathetic excuse for a review. From the author&#039;s history, it&#039;s clear that he considers &quot;Germans&quot;, whom he mentions indiscriminately (something I personally take offense to), as well as Arabs, are the only human beings capable of war crimes. 

Mr. Rosenthal simply can&#039;t bring himself to believe that Israel can ever do anything right, even if the movie is predicated upon true stories of war veterans. In discrediting them, Mr. Rosenthal is insulting Israel and is being himself anti-semitic.

I also find it hypocritical, nay disingenuous, that this scumbag of a writer dared to LIE about the Nazi parallel. The movie DID NOT suggest that the IDF were Nazis (although there is a lot of evidence elsewhere, involving settlers in particular in other massacres that proves otherwise). Rather, the word was mentioned only twice, coming up in two separate conversations...the movie therefore didn&#039;t assert the parallel in any way. Even if the author&#039;s twisted mind saw it this way, he AGAIN missed the point.

As the Kahan commission pointed out, the IDF enabled the Phalange terrorists to commit this Nazi-like atrocity against unarmed civilians...the parallel was again based on the image of Phalange trucks hoarding away scores of civilians, like the trains to Auschwitz, to &quot;camps&quot;, and then coming back empty. The parallel is inescapable. In no way does Folman assert in the documentary that 6 Palestinians were gassed. 

Also, the movie was NOT funded by Europe until after Chanel 8 ran out of funds to give to Folman who saw that his groundbreaking idea to have a feature length animated film would cost a shitload more than the 120 grand he was initially given.

So Mr. Rosenthal, shame on you for your preverications and lies...you&#039;re a no-body in the film critic world, seeing as though your &quot;review&quot; is in none of the major aggregates such as Metacritic (where Waltz with Bashir got 91%, Universal Acclaim) and Rotten Tomatoes (97%).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a pathetic excuse for a review. From the author&#8217;s history, it&#8217;s clear that he considers &#8220;Germans&#8221;, whom he mentions indiscriminately (something I personally take offense to), as well as Arabs, are the only human beings capable of war crimes. </p>
<p>Mr. Rosenthal simply can&#8217;t bring himself to believe that Israel can ever do anything right, even if the movie is predicated upon true stories of war veterans. In discrediting them, Mr. Rosenthal is insulting Israel and is being himself anti-semitic.</p>
<p>I also find it hypocritical, nay disingenuous, that this scumbag of a writer dared to LIE about the Nazi parallel. The movie DID NOT suggest that the IDF were Nazis (although there is a lot of evidence elsewhere, involving settlers in particular in other massacres that proves otherwise). Rather, the word was mentioned only twice, coming up in two separate conversations&#8230;the movie therefore didn&#8217;t assert the parallel in any way. Even if the author&#8217;s twisted mind saw it this way, he AGAIN missed the point.</p>
<p>As the Kahan commission pointed out, the IDF enabled the Phalange terrorists to commit this Nazi-like atrocity against unarmed civilians&#8230;the parallel was again based on the image of Phalange trucks hoarding away scores of civilians, like the trains to Auschwitz, to &#8220;camps&#8221;, and then coming back empty. The parallel is inescapable. In no way does Folman assert in the documentary that 6 Palestinians were gassed. </p>
<p>Also, the movie was NOT funded by Europe until after Chanel 8 ran out of funds to give to Folman who saw that his groundbreaking idea to have a feature length animated film would cost a shitload more than the 120 grand he was initially given.</p>
<p>So Mr. Rosenthal, shame on you for your preverications and lies&#8230;you&#8217;re a no-body in the film critic world, seeing as though your &#8220;review&#8221; is in none of the major aggregates such as Metacritic (where Waltz with Bashir got 91%, Universal Acclaim) and Rotten Tomatoes (97%).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: GG1000</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/waltz-with-bashir-nazi-germany-and-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-212073</link>
		<dc:creator>GG1000</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 17:00:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=47167#comment-212073</guid>
		<description>The question asked is whether standing by while evil is perpetrated is as bad as perpetrating it. The reason the Holocaust and Nazis are a thread running through it is that Israelis have more reason than most to be aware that standing by while evil is perpetrated is wrong. The film is not about any one event, nor is it an accusation or defense of any group of people. It is about war, atrocity, and the human tendancy to not want to know and not risk oneself. It is a deeply personal examination of these themes and therefore the events that happened to the filmmaker are those he chooses to use to examine them. Anyone who argues this as being about a specific event and making a specific accusation has missed the point; sorry blogging dude. Step it up a notch. The accusation the filmmaker is making is not against Israel; it&#039;s against himself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The question asked is whether standing by while evil is perpetrated is as bad as perpetrating it. The reason the Holocaust and Nazis are a thread running through it is that Israelis have more reason than most to be aware that standing by while evil is perpetrated is wrong. The film is not about any one event, nor is it an accusation or defense of any group of people. It is about war, atrocity, and the human tendancy to not want to know and not risk oneself. It is a deeply personal examination of these themes and therefore the events that happened to the filmmaker are those he chooses to use to examine them. Anyone who argues this as being about a specific event and making a specific accusation has missed the point; sorry blogging dude. Step it up a notch. The accusation the filmmaker is making is not against Israel; it&#8217;s against himself.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TalkinKamel</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/waltz-with-bashir-nazi-germany-and-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-207570</link>
		<dc:creator>TalkinKamel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 15:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=47167#comment-207570</guid>
		<description>Far as I&#039;m concerned, the world in general is unable to recognize genocide, as witness Darfur, Rwanda, Tibet, Cambodia and the endless whitewashing of Russia, and the gulags: it only gets upset about &quot;genocide&quot;, &quot;atrocities&quot; and the like, if said &quot;genocide&quot; can somehow be blamed on Israel, and it can be used to whomp up sympathy for the beloved Palestinian uber-victim.  

War can be a horror.  There are other horrible things too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Far as I&#8217;m concerned, the world in general is unable to recognize genocide, as witness Darfur, Rwanda, Tibet, Cambodia and the endless whitewashing of Russia, and the gulags: it only gets upset about &#8220;genocide&#8221;, &#8220;atrocities&#8221; and the like, if said &#8220;genocide&#8221; can somehow be blamed on Israel, and it can be used to whomp up sympathy for the beloved Palestinian uber-victim.  </p>
<p>War can be a horror.  There are other horrible things too.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TalkinKamel</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/waltz-with-bashir-nazi-germany-and-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-207567</link>
		<dc:creator>TalkinKamel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 15:28:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=47167#comment-207567</guid>
		<description>Is a culture that experienced genocide more likely to recognize it?  Well, first, actual genocide needs to occur.  The population of Gaza is rising.  Populations do not typically rise during a genocide: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090215/wl_mideast_afp/mideastpalestinianpopulationgaza</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is a culture that experienced genocide more likely to recognize it?  Well, first, actual genocide needs to occur.  The population of Gaza is rising.  Populations do not typically rise during a genocide: <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090215/wl_mideast_afp/mideastpalestinianpopulationgaza" rel="nofollow">http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090215/wl_mideast_afp/mideastpalestinianpopulationgaza</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ellis Amdur</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/waltz-with-bashir-nazi-germany-and-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-207265</link>
		<dc:creator>Ellis Amdur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 21:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=47167#comment-207265</guid>
		<description>In part, this is a particularly Jewish/Israeli problem, one which Folman does not shy away from: Is a culture that has experienced genocide more likely to recognize it the next time it appears? Not necessarily, says Folman, speaking personally again.

&quot;For us who grew up in those kinds of families, are we more ready to listen to those kinds of stories? On the contrary, I think it is harder. The Holocaust was like a one-time experience in the history of humankind for us. We are not ready for anything else.&quot;

But Folman is adamant in insisting that there are no easy comparisons to be made between the Nazi murder of the Jews and the massacre at Sabra and Shatilla. &quot;There is no comparison, there can be no comparison. But mass murder is mass murder, and it is something that the imagination cannot believe or accept, even while it is happening.&quot;

War is horror beyond human comprehension: This is the theme of &quot;Waltz With Bashir.&quot;

&quot;This film,&quot; insisted Folman, &quot;could have been made by an ex-American soldier in Vietnam, a Russian in Afghanistan, an American today in Iraq. … It could have been made by anyone who wakes up one morning and finds himself hundreds of kilometers away from home, in a remote city that has nothing to do with him or his life, nothing whatsoever. He doesn&#039;t know what he&#039;s doing there, he is terrified, and he has no clue.&quot;
from:  http://www.alternet.org/movies/116016/%27waltz_with_bashir%27_makes_war_look_stupid/?page=2</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In part, this is a particularly Jewish/Israeli problem, one which Folman does not shy away from: Is a culture that has experienced genocide more likely to recognize it the next time it appears? Not necessarily, says Folman, speaking personally again.</p>
<p>&#8220;For us who grew up in those kinds of families, are we more ready to listen to those kinds of stories? On the contrary, I think it is harder. The Holocaust was like a one-time experience in the history of humankind for us. We are not ready for anything else.&#8221;</p>
<p>But Folman is adamant in insisting that there are no easy comparisons to be made between the Nazi murder of the Jews and the massacre at Sabra and Shatilla. &#8220;There is no comparison, there can be no comparison. But mass murder is mass murder, and it is something that the imagination cannot believe or accept, even while it is happening.&#8221;</p>
<p>War is horror beyond human comprehension: This is the theme of &#8220;Waltz With Bashir.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;This film,&#8221; insisted Folman, &#8220;could have been made by an ex-American soldier in Vietnam, a Russian in Afghanistan, an American today in Iraq. … It could have been made by anyone who wakes up one morning and finds himself hundreds of kilometers away from home, in a remote city that has nothing to do with him or his life, nothing whatsoever. He doesn&#8217;t know what he&#8217;s doing there, he is terrified, and he has no clue.&#8221;<br />
from:  <a href="http://www.alternet.org/movies/116016/%27waltz_with_bashir%27_makes_war_look_stupid/?page=2" rel="nofollow">http://www.alternet.org/movies/116016/%27waltz_with_bashir%27_makes_war_look_stupid/?page=2</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TalkinKamel</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/waltz-with-bashir-nazi-germany-and-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-207097</link>
		<dc:creator>TalkinKamel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:25:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=47167#comment-207097</guid>
		<description>More about Damour: funny, I don&#039;t recall that Yassir Arafat was ever tried for his involvement in that: http://www.israelforum.com/board/archive/index.php/t-2009.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More about Damour: funny, I don&#8217;t recall that Yassir Arafat was ever tried for his involvement in that: <a href="http://www.israelforum.com/board/archive/index.php/t-2009.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.israelforum.com/board/archive/index.php/t-2009.html</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TalkinKamel</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/waltz-with-bashir-nazi-germany-and-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-207093</link>
		<dc:creator>TalkinKamel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:20:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=47167#comment-207093</guid>
		<description>For some reason, the very Nazi like massacre of Christians at Damour never gets mentioned; http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/67476</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For some reason, the very Nazi like massacre of Christians at Damour never gets mentioned; <a href="http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/67476" rel="nofollow">http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/67476</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: sdraio</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/waltz-with-bashir-nazi-germany-and-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-207074</link>
		<dc:creator>sdraio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=47167#comment-207074</guid>
		<description>I did not see the movie yet. I would like to point out that the Israeli army responsabilities at Sabra and Chatila were recognised by the Israeli government&#039;s own Kahan Commission, which found Israel indirectly responsible for the massacre, and Ariel Sharon personally responsible for &quot;ignoring the danger of bloodshed and revenge&quot; and for &quot;not taking appropriate measures to prevent bloodshed&quot;. Sharon was forced to resign from the post of defense minister.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did not see the movie yet. I would like to point out that the Israeli army responsabilities at Sabra and Chatila were recognised by the Israeli government&#8217;s own Kahan Commission, which found Israel indirectly responsible for the massacre, and Ariel Sharon personally responsible for &#8220;ignoring the danger of bloodshed and revenge&#8221; and for &#8220;not taking appropriate measures to prevent bloodshed&#8221;. Sharon was forced to resign from the post of defense minister.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Philippa</title>
		<link>http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/waltz-with-bashir-nazi-germany-and-israel/comment-page-1/#comment-206939</link>
		<dc:creator>Philippa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 09:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://pajamasmedia.com/?p=47167#comment-206939</guid>
		<description>I have seen the film and am inclined to agree with Barbara. This is not the only artistic work by an Israeli that I have come into contact with that questions Israeli actions during the Lebanese war. It is in the same genre as those films by Americans that criticise America’s role in the war in Vietnam, Iraq etc, and they range across the scale from Right to Left wing. 

I found the film very moving and the “comic strip” style is brilliantly executed. It is generally anti-war in scope not anti-Israel. Israel is an open and self-critical society, in stark contrast to Palestinian society - criticism of Palestinian authorities by Palestinians is dangerous to their health! Lebanon is not much better and it has always struck me as an oxymoron – associating the Phalangists with the name of Jesus Christ.

The porn scene is the one part of the film that I felt jarred; but are we to assume that Israeli soldiers have never ransacked the cities they have taken or been vulnerable to porn? Actually the scene is quite sad; the soldier’s reaction is evidence of an unbalanced mind. I am currently reading Ron Leshem’s (an Israeli) novel “Beaufort” (won Israel’s top literary award for 2006) which deals with the same war and the teenage male soldiers’ language is crude and their chief preoccupation is sex. The military actions they are involved in are pointless and futile. The blurb says the novel has been hailed by the soldiers who served in the Lebanon war as “the true voice of that sobering period”. 

All nations have to question their country’s actions in war and not let wrongdoing go unpunished e.g. Australia imprisoned “enemy aliens” during World War II and they were not all POWs; some were locals of German, Italian and Japanese origin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have seen the film and am inclined to agree with Barbara. This is not the only artistic work by an Israeli that I have come into contact with that questions Israeli actions during the Lebanese war. It is in the same genre as those films by Americans that criticise America’s role in the war in Vietnam, Iraq etc, and they range across the scale from Right to Left wing. </p>
<p>I found the film very moving and the “comic strip” style is brilliantly executed. It is generally anti-war in scope not anti-Israel. Israel is an open and self-critical society, in stark contrast to Palestinian society &#8211; criticism of Palestinian authorities by Palestinians is dangerous to their health! Lebanon is not much better and it has always struck me as an oxymoron – associating the Phalangists with the name of Jesus Christ.</p>
<p>The porn scene is the one part of the film that I felt jarred; but are we to assume that Israeli soldiers have never ransacked the cities they have taken or been vulnerable to porn? Actually the scene is quite sad; the soldier’s reaction is evidence of an unbalanced mind. I am currently reading Ron Leshem’s (an Israeli) novel “Beaufort” (won Israel’s top literary award for 2006) which deals with the same war and the teenage male soldiers’ language is crude and their chief preoccupation is sex. The military actions they are involved in are pointless and futile. The blurb says the novel has been hailed by the soldiers who served in the Lebanon war as “the true voice of that sobering period”. </p>
<p>All nations have to question their country’s actions in war and not let wrongdoing go unpunished e.g. Australia imprisoned “enemy aliens” during World War II and they were not all POWs; some were locals of German, Italian and Japanese origin.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
