Pajamas Media

175 Comments

1. Typewriter King:

Most of this must have been written before the fact. Just sayin’.

Oct 15, 2008 - 7:55 pm 2. Presidential Debate Liveblog! v3.0 « WitSnapper | The Blog:

[...] and summaries by Instapundit, Hot Air, Miz Michelle, Gateway Pundit, Ann Althouse, TalkLeft, Jennifer Rubin, and two sentences from Confederate Yankee. Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Playing [...]

Oct 15, 2008 - 8:00 pm 3. flanders:

I can’t wait for the you tube showing all of McCain’s facial expressions. His face is just weird.

Oct 15, 2008 - 8:04 pm 4. Stephen:

Excellent analysis. If McCain had done this in the first debate he might still be in contention. As it is, this is too little too late.

I am mystified that McCain continued to let Obama get away with the statement that Obama will reduce taxes for 95%. This is mathematically impossible, as nearly 50% pay little or nothing already. Furthermore, when the majority of the population pays no Federal Income Tax, the vote to raise taxes will always be higher than the vote to lower them.

On Ayers and ACORN McCain raised the issue but never drove it home.

On the issue of opposing the Columbia Trade Law, Obama spoke of workers’ rights. Here was where McCain could have hammered him on the Employee Check-off proposal by which US workers will be deprived of a secret ballot.

Over and over again McCain reverted to his talking points instead of listening to Obama and rebutting Obama’s statements. Artificially injecting stump speech talking points seems to me to be a very weak and ineffective debate strategy. First, it is boring. Second, it takes the drama out of every exchange when the candidates talk past each other instead of addressing what each says. Here Obama was the superior debater because he occasionally did address and attempt to refute things McCain had just said.

Absent a full fledged ACORN scandal (not likely to appear in the MSM until 2009) we are looking at a near landslide by Obama, over 300 Electoral Votes, and probably close to 350. As Dandy Don Meridith used to sing near the end of a lopsided Monday Night Football Game, “Turn out the lights, the party’s over.”

Oct 15, 2008 - 8:06 pm 5. Daedalus:

I think there is a lesson to be learned here…..NEVER NOMINATE A CANDIDATE WHO CANNOT COMMUNICATE. John McCain is capable of communications but he rarely shows this talent. He just muddles along and unless he decides to really fight, and he hasn’t so far……….. its hello “Dear Leader”.

BHO is the man who had a had Communist sympathizer as a father image in his teen formative years. BHO is the man who was hand picked by a Communist sympathizer to follow her in the Illinois Senate. The man who will take us down the slippery slope of Socialism, and unlimited government spending, oh, and don’t forget wealth redistribution, because, “that is the fair thing to do.”

Remember the story of two frogs, one is thrown in a pot of boiling water and immediately jumped out. The other was placed in a pot of lukewarm water, and then it was slowly heated. By the time the frog realized he was being boiled alive, it was too late.

Are we the frogs in a pot of water with slowly rising temperatures?

Oct 15, 2008 - 8:08 pm 6. Formwiz:

Disagree, strongly. McCain reduced Obama to his usual “um”s and “uh”s on a number of points. Obambi did his best Albert Gore impression while McCain was animated and enjoying himself. As for knockout punches, Dr. Rove said it best, “Knockout punches are usually self-inflicted”.

I think this debate, like the first, goes to McCain (how many times did Obambi say in that one, “John’s right about that”?). Five, six? The people who wanted Maverick to swing for the fences should take some time to read the time and motion studies of Ernest Lawrence Thayer. It didn’t work for Casey.

Oct 15, 2008 - 8:09 pm 7. Jody Green:

Dear Jennifer,

Your analysis is the best I have seen. McCain had many chances for the knockout but he obviously does not want the knockout. Obama has at least been soothing for those with no interest in learning about his past and McCain gave no reason to really question it beyond normal partisan politics. Sad for McCain and especially sad for the country.

Lets hope Obama is not the radical his past portrays.

Cheers,

Jody

Oct 15, 2008 - 8:11 pm 8. Terry Johnson:

Too little, too late. McCain is basically replaying the “Life and Times Of Colonel Blimp” – a decent old codger who doesn’t know this is a real war. The Dems will, and have, done anything and everything to get elected (voter fraud, media bias, accusations of racism) and yet sad old Blimp still wants to play by the Queensbury rules. He if wasn’t prepared to fight this war to win he should not have run in the Primaries in the first place. The country will go to hell if Obama wins but Blimp won’t suffer – he has his millions and has kept his “sense of honor” intact. Thanks a bunch, Blimp.

Oct 15, 2008 - 8:21 pm 9. Someone75:

Formwiz:

A skilled debater knows that it’s actually a good thing to agree on certain points, if there is an agreement there. An amateur debater feels the need to dispute every issue, but that gets nothing done. Since there is some overlap in McCain and Obama’s policy, it’s only natural that there would be some agreement. Obama is the bigger man because he can admit the similarities. In contradistinction, McCain cannot admit when he agrees with Obama.

Oct 15, 2008 - 8:22 pm 10. Stephen:

Formwiz,

I agree that on substance McCain did prevail in the first debate and also in this one. But Obama had a task that is different from winning on substance.

Think of this election as a mirror image of 1980. The country wanted change and was disappointed in Carter, the Iran hostage crisis, and the terrible misery-index economy. But they didn’t know whether they could trust the country to Reagan. Ronald Reagan didn’t have to show he was better than Carter nor did he need to win the debates on substance (though he did both in the first and last debates). All he had to do was convince the public that he was good enough and safe enough to take a chance on. He did that and everything fell his way leading to a landslide victory.

A very sharp friend of mine conceded that Obama was not very experienced, but argued that he had stature, acquired during the long campaign. When I probed more deeply he basically acknowledged that what he really meant was that he could be comfortable picturing Obama as President. That is all Obama has had to do in this campaign and he has succeeded.

Winning a debate on substantive issues is less important these days than conveying the impression of stature sufficient to be pictured as President by a public eager for hope and change, illusion though it may be.

Oct 15, 2008 - 8:26 pm 11. Formwiz:

Nonsense, you don’t give your opponent the edge of conceding points.

PS Your Obambi bumper sticker is showing.

Oct 15, 2008 - 8:27 pm 12. Tad:

Perhaps we watched a different debate? Unlike the prior debates, Obama looked to be on his heels almost from the outset. He seemed annoyed. McCain (who, by the way, was second to last on my list of GOP candidates) on the other hand, seemed to be ready to pounce and he did.

Did McCain deliver a ‘knockout’? Clearly not. Did he deliver a series of withering attacks to which Obama seemed unable to respond to? Yes. “Um”, “ah”… Senator Government could not get away from his spend, spend, spend mentality and McCain was able to point that out repeatedly.

I love the line about Obama’s ‘eloquence’ being so good, but then pointing out his equivocation.

Also, this may very well become the ‘Joe The Plumber’ election and McCain has that issue all to himself.

Oct 15, 2008 - 8:27 pm 13. Chip:

The corporate income tax issue of dropping the rate from 35% to 25% was the most important issue of this debate. McCain scored big with that contrast.

I’ll bet that it turned a shift of at least 2 points into the McCain column in each of the swing states.

McCain picked apart Obama’s talking points on offshore drilling. Does Obama really give a rat’s ass about the average joe filling up his gas tank? Nope! No way, and you could tell that Obama didn’t have any qualms at all about his stance.

What the average joe out there doesn’t realize is that Obama could care less about the middle class. His agenda is about social re-engineering and not about fixing the present US economy.
The government will end up doing this, and the government will do that…and everyone will just have to be content.

And just what I figured regarding Obama’s statement about healthcare costs, like as if rural hospitals are going to be able to survive with government auditors coming in and slashing their prices with no concern for the realities of their freestanding overhead issues.

Obama looked cool, because that is what con artists do! Looked real cool, and to me, his policies will really HURT mainstream Americans if he is elected, just like the same old overburdening tax policies did during the Carter years.

But, I think McCain swung this just enough to be able to beat Obama in Florida and Ohio. Possibly even in Minnesota and New Hampshire.

McCain at 283 will be fine with me!

Oct 15, 2008 - 8:27 pm 14. frieda:

In a nutshell

Obama: Mr. Government as the Santa Clause.

McCain: The hero, the maverick, who can’t believe an empty suit from no-where is winning this election!

I am hoping Joe the plumber will be interviewed later and he will make the case for McCain and helps us win.

Oct 15, 2008 - 8:37 pm 15. AJ:

Gee, more defeatism from an elite conservative.

Even my liberal friends and CNN say this was McCain’s BEST debate and Obama’s worst. Obama was tired, slow and had no emotion — aside from the usual cliches and lies.

McCain was angry, combative and overall, got his facts right. Whether this matters, we’ll see.

Personally, it’s shame terrorism does not matter to so many fools, since Obama was 1000% WRONG and McCain was 1000% correct there. But again, with terrorism barely touched in this debate, that McCain won was telling.

The only poll that matters comes Nov. 4. John McCain will win.

Oct 15, 2008 - 8:38 pm 16. AJ:

I should add that Schieffer did a good job. Unlike Brokaw, he asked tough questions, which led to good answers overall. Brokaw had the easiest format, and blew it. He (Tom) should leave journalism — finally.

Oct 15, 2008 - 8:39 pm 17. NU Student for Obama:

HONESTLY??! If Joe the Plumber is going to be making more than $250,000 then he is no longer “Joe the Plumber”!!

Oct 15, 2008 - 8:40 pm 18. Michael Devereaux:

This was not a game changer, but it didn’t have to be – while that would have been nice. I disagree that the election is out of reach.

The game has been extended now, and will play out for the final three weeks. That’s critical. The necessary attacks on Obama never could have been accomplished via the debates. They’ll go on in the ads and in the stump speeches.

The election remains closer than most people realize. And of course Senator Government remained unruffled and calm – though not completely! He has no other higher priority right now than reassuring American voters that he’s a trustworthy, friendly, middle-of-the-road politician, nothing to be scared of here! He’ll never convince me of that, but what’s important is what the average American decides over the next three weeks.

Don’t give up, conservatives! The game is not over yet! Not by any means.

Oct 15, 2008 - 8:41 pm 19. Stephen:

My goodness. So many folks who believe McCain will win. Well, this is one time I hope I’m totally wrong, but I can’t see how McCain wins.

To do so he has to take all the red states Bush won in 2004 and cannot afford to lose Colorado, Iowa, and New Mexico, where it appears Obama is ahead. He has pulled out of Michigan and is rumored to be on the verge of giving up in Pennsylvania. He is fighting hard for Virginia, Ohio, Florida, and OMG North Carolina.

I thought McCain might win after Palin and before the meltdown of the economy, but I just can’t make the EV numbers add up.

Those of you who are so optimistic, please tell me what EV combination you think will provide that victory on November 4.

Oct 15, 2008 - 8:45 pm 20. frieda:

Obama’s coolness scares me!

Obama looked cool..yes, he always is …because that is what con artists do!

He shows no emotions only sarcastic laughs and that scares me more.

After finishing reading his first book, I am almost sure that this guy is not what he wants us to believe.

I run away from socialism from my country to live the American dream which I have done it in the last 25 years. I’ve never thought that socialism can follow me to America. Obama uses “key words” that most socialist use…I know them, I once was a socialist myself. Too sad to see Americans are falling for it. Ayn Rand is rolling over in her grave!

Oct 15, 2008 - 8:45 pm 21. NoBama08:

I agree with Tad, we must not have seen the same debate. I watched it on FoxNews ‘Strategy Room’, where they have the MOST fair, unbiased panel, which comprise Dem/Rep/Ind strategizers, and they all say that this was McCain’s best debate, and that Obama was ‘off his game’. They also noted that he didn’t condemn Ayers, nor the Acorn voting fraud. (even if it wasn’t ‘involved with him’) I think that McCain has proven that he may have been down, but certainly not out, and even the Dem strategizer, who did, incidentally say ‘too little too late’ (although she said he’d done his best here), said that she believes the spread is much closer than polls indicate (which I believe as well) and that if ‘this McCain shows up during the next 19 days, it will be a much closer race’. I agree, McCain won this round! Don’t count him out yet! It’s not over till it’s over!!!

Oct 15, 2008 - 8:50 pm 22. Curtis:

McCain showed frustration, ridigness (a Bush quality). After discussion about negative attacks, he continued to attach, choosing to tell us what Obama’s plans are or are not, rather than sell his own. He always touts himself as the “maverick”, sighting numberous instances where he has gone against his party. However, he NEVER includes economic policy as an example. This was again evident in this debate. Watch it again and see for yourself. Fact of the matter, he wants to continue “Trickle Down” policies, policies which since Reagan, have made the middle class poorer.

On abortion, how can you be against abortion, yet be your the death penalty? Abortion foes sight religous beliefs as a guiding principle in their fight against abortion. Does your religion justify killing another human being after he or she is born? Seems to be a contradiction to me.

Oct 15, 2008 - 8:51 pm 23. NoBama08:

Frieda, I agree. Wait til the ‘producers’ go all ‘John Galt’ on their asses!

Oct 15, 2008 - 8:52 pm 24. Curtis:

Will someone please tell me why Palin is fit to be Vice President or President? She is more of an idiot than George Bush! Can’t you see the she was picked solely to go after the Clinton female vote. McCain drove that point in the debate. When he anounced her as his running mate, I went from undecided to completely for Obama.

Oct 15, 2008 - 8:58 pm 25. Sofia:

McCain did very well,he brought up Obama’s shady connections without being too vicious.
Obama lied.
I felt that McCain was getting under his skin.
I would have liked more questions about terrorism and the progress in Iraq.

McCain WON !!!!

Oct 15, 2008 - 8:58 pm 26. newton:

“I run away from socialism from my country to live the American dream which I have done it in the last 25 years. I’ve never thought that socialism can follow me to America. Obama uses “key words” that most socialist use…I know them, I once was a socialist myself. Too sad to see Americans are falling for it.”

I hear you, woman. I met people from Eastern Europe, and I can tell you that they can smell a Communist from a mile away. But Americans?

This country has forgotten about history. We are now to be overtaken by a socialist/Communist tsunami. I just hope we have the strength and the determination to hold on to what we believe and to fight back with all of our might, if this country is ever going to survive it.

Oct 15, 2008 - 9:02 pm 27. wilky:

Those of you who are so optimistic, please tell me what EV combination you think will provide that victory on November 4.

I can’t give you a EV combination to make a case. I did hear a fellow who seems to think this will be a McCain win and not very close. His reason, its not voting for McCain or against Obama, but rather against the media. I see his point. Of course, if it comes to pass, it will be labeled “The Bradley Effect”

Oct 15, 2008 - 9:08 pm 28. seguin:

“HONESTLY??! If Joe the Plumber is going to be making more than $250,000 then he is no longer “Joe the Plumber”!!”

You’d be amazed at how little money that is when you’re trying to run a business.

Oct 15, 2008 - 9:10 pm 29. Woody:

NU student for Obama: the tax on $250,000 is from a business, not the what the owner takes home. Once you factor in a receptionist, another plumber, an accountant, equipment, insurance and other overhead, $250,000 isn’t very much at all. Oh, and he’s a plumber- he probably has to pay the union dues as well and pay his employees what the union tells him they must get. Now, after all that, Joe Plumber is probably making less than $50,000 a year and dealing with more stress making it work than anybody else involved. Of course, once Obama takes away incentive to succeed with taxes like that I guess it will become a moot point all together.

Oct 15, 2008 - 9:14 pm 30. Marc:

I don’t think Obama crushes McCain, but it won’t be close in the Electoral College. I see something like a 51% – 47% popular vote victory. The financial crisis drowned out any serious look at Obama and his qualifications. I think right now people are thinking it can’t get any worse, lets let the Democrats have a go. I guess we will see how they do with all their newfound power.

Oct 15, 2008 - 9:17 pm 31. Missed Opportunities | Nicholas Fitzgerald:

[...] Pajamas Media [...]

Oct 15, 2008 - 9:17 pm 32. Richard:

“The problem is…”
“The fact of the matter is….”
“The real question is…”
I don’t want four years of Obama lecturing me on what to think. That’s what I get from these debates.

Oct 15, 2008 - 9:23 pm 33. Marc Malone:

NU student for Obama – You are the very reason Obama may win. Honestly. In this country, Joe the Plumber CAN make 250k/yr. This guy wants to buy a solid business. He’ll charge x per hour, paying a healthy portion to each of a few employees, depending on skill and experience. He’s still a plumber, but he’s a Master Plumber.

In addition to doing plumbing, he develops the skills of others, plus works as a businessman. That’s why the majority of new jobs are created by small business. When you come out of school, you are very likely to work for someone just like Joe. You won’t stop developing. You’ll be gaining skill and experience. Do you rise above journeyman skill level, and actually learn some business skills as well, you will eventually become Joe the Plumber yourself.

But right now, $250k/yr seems like a whole lot. Actually, it may even seem like an immoral amount of money, depending on your indoctrination. But, make no mistake, those at that income level are generally the absolutely hardest of workers and earn every dime. Starting a business is hard, and there are no guarantees. When times get tough, there is often no salary for them. They work for free, and they still must pay the bills.

After all their development, hard work, and sacrifice, someone like Obama, who has NEVER WORKED IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR, tells you that you MUST give to those who simply didn’t work as hard. If YOU get to that point, you’ll look back and wonder at how you could have ever been so callow. Chances are, believing what you do now, you are not likely to get to that point, because your mind is already trapped into wrongful thinking.

Do all of us, and yourself, a favor, and go discuss earning a real living with your folks before you vote. Ask to see their checkbooks. Have them walk through their budget. Ask them about: how much they earn; how much they work; how much others make; how much they hope to make. Then ask them about “Joe the Plumber”. Do this before you vote.

Oct 15, 2008 - 9:25 pm 34. CV:

Baring a visitation of aliens from Mars endorsing McCain, John McCain is officially toast. Obama looked more presidential, sounded more coherent and logical and none of McCains attempts to dislodge Obama from his lofty perch worked. Starting in 2010 we will have at least 2 years of Democrats running the whole of the Federal government. We saw what 6 years of the Republicans running the show brought us, now lets see how well the Democrats run things.

I predict that Obama will either go down in history as a great leader who pulled the nation out of a financial abyss, or will be a one term president simply due to the size of the problems he will inherit.

Oct 15, 2008 - 9:29 pm 35. Angry Republican:

McCain facial expressions said it all….I’m fustrated and angry….My mind is made up. I’m voting for Obama next month!

Oct 15, 2008 - 9:29 pm 36. Chris:

MCcain fired up the base tonight. Not an unimpressive task. Will be close but he gave himself a chance tonight. Polls will close in the coming weeks.

Oct 15, 2008 - 9:33 pm 37. skink:

if it’s the bottom of the ninth and the Reps badly need a homer, how about using a pinch hitter?

bring on Joe the Plumber

Joe for President!

he’s young, energetic, and is not trying to hide the fact that he is losing his hair

and if you want to know what the Oval Office might look like with Palin in teh chair, then try this:

http://palinaspresident.com/

Oct 15, 2008 - 9:35 pm 38. Ross:

People are saying that race is not an issue. Well “my friends” picture both candidates as African American, in this case we would only have to change the appearance of John McCain. All things considered, who would you ote for?

Oct 15, 2008 - 9:37 pm 39. thegr8_1:

Some great posts. As I sit in the middle of Iowa I think I would vote for Joe the plumber if I could. Since I can’t I’ll take the military hero and pray history repeats itself war hero (Eisenhower) over Illinois senator (Stevenson). Read National Review Online about Obama’s book in the 90’s how the writing is Ayers style. Vote the wrong way America and you deserve what you get. I spoke to an elderly man after the debate in my hotel lobby and he thought McCain was a crabby old man. I’ll take a crabby old patriotic man over a lying, condescending, arrogant spoiled brat. You could make a wimdup doll of him that says 95% will get tax cuts, 8 more years of George Bush etc. Not an original thought of idea and he is this close to the leader of the free (I am doubting) world. Move your money to Wells Fargo they were the only ones who stood up to Paulson’s Gestapo tactics to inject capital into the banks. Read Wed Wall Street Journal.

Oct 15, 2008 - 9:38 pm 40. Final Debate Reactions | The Anchoress:

[...] Rubin says McCain needed a gamechanger and did not get it. He needed to pound home ACORN and connect Obama, and didn’t do [...]

Oct 15, 2008 - 9:44 pm 41. nanette:

We watched the debate from Singapore.

Most of the people here are cheering for OBAMA.

The next PRESIDENT of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!

Come visit us to Singapore.

Oct 15, 2008 - 9:57 pm 42. clr33:

Folks – the “Joe Plumber” is an actual real guy.. and he met Obama first… and he listened to Obama first… and he then told Obama his tax plan was going to keep him from buying his business. He listened again tonight (and was interviewed after) and he still thinks Obama’s plan is going to keep him from buying his business.

You are not getting the picture – he actually is. Obama’s tax plan turns off all of us from investing in this nation right now. Obama even managed to upset his own party yesterday when the camera caught him telling a blue collar point blank his goal was to move money from the wealthy to help him out (aka socialism). There is no way his own moderates in the Party will put legislation together to let that happen! My money(and most everyone I talk to that has any) moves OFF SHORE where Obama’s greedy socialist hands can’t touch it if he gets in office. It will stay there until 2006 when a struggling US throws out the bulk of the Dem do-nothing Senators and Congressman and vote back in people that won’t let Obama continue. Net – the next 4 years with Obama in office – is another 4 years of nothing happening.

Oct 15, 2008 - 10:00 pm 43. John:

McCain’s love of being seen as the bi-partisan reformer who can work with both sides was just too much to overcome. Had Obama and his staff not called Maverick out on his comments last week — basically daring McCain to say them to Barack’s face during the final debate — chances are we wouldn’t even have gotten this much of a fight out of him. He’d rather leave the dirty work to Palin and the 527 groups if he has to do it, and would rather not do it at all against a Senate colleague. He’ll lose the election, but he’ll be able to go back to the Senate and act as if nothing happened this way.

Oct 15, 2008 - 10:13 pm 44. Pink Pig:

It’s not entirely clear to me what people thought they saw. A few commenters have said that the debate just reinforces their support for Obama, and conversely a few have said that it reinforces their support for McCain. Somehow, I don’t think this amounts to a hill of beans. For the most part, those who supported Obama before still support him, and those who supported McCain still support him. I should add that I don’t believe the comments that I read as to how one or the other sucked, so they have made up their minds. Everyone commenting on this thread, that’s EVERYONE, is partisan.

Do debates matter? Another kettle of fish entirely. My personal view is that the debates have served mainly as a pretext for those who need pretexts. As has this whole interminable campaign. I could probably give you a hundred reasons why I don’t trust the “polls”, but it has been done before and I have little to add. At this point, we have no idea who is going to win, so I will substitute my opinion. I just don’t believe that the voters of the United States are going to elect someone as radical as Obama, particularly since the alternative is entirely unobjectionable.

Oct 15, 2008 - 10:16 pm 45. Marc Malone:

Angry Republican – That’s your handle… and you’re voting against McCain because he’s frustrated and angry… like you? Come again? Sounds like he’s exactly your guy.

Tool.

Oct 15, 2008 - 10:16 pm 46. Captain Paintball:

I would have given my left one to hear John McCain say the following: “Senator Obama, the radical group ACORN is one of the main causes of the subprime mortgage crisis. They also have a proven history of committing voter fraud, which ultimately undermines the democratic process. Your campaign has financial ties to this radical group, Senator, through fundraisers and donations. YOU have PERSONAL ties to this group, Senator, through your legal representation–You even promised to have ACORN, and other radical groups shape the policies of your Administration if elected. Senator Obama, ACORN is planning on stealing this election. Are YOU going to let them get away with it?”

Oct 15, 2008 - 10:18 pm 47. Mongol:

good news for McCain, this is just fresh off the press lol, don’t burn your fingers. It is delicious… keep the fire burning!

“Perhaps the best news for McCain is the rating he received from independent voters. Among respondents not identified with either major political party, McCain was judged tonight’s winner, 51-42 percent.”

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14618.html

On a debate itself, my favorite lie from Mr. Zero tonight was his attempts to convince Americans that he’s really only for abortion when mother’s life is in danger, but his other words immidiatedly come to mind, “if they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby”

HOPE no one notices the lie
CHANGE your position every time you are cornered.

Oct 15, 2008 - 10:21 pm 48. Lily:

Dear NU Student for Obama: What do you mean he is no longer Joe the Plumber if he earns $$$? Have you tried hiring a plumber lately? Big expense. Joe is a small business man. And if he works his tail off, he can earn a very comfortable living as a plumber. But he’ll have to work hard. But why would he work so hard if Sen. Government will just take his earnings away and give it to someone else? I know I wouldn’t. By the way, $250,000 is a comfortable living, but it isn’t RICH. Trust me – this I know. You’re comfortable, but in a big city, you can’t live in the top neighborhoods and have all the stuff you want. And your taxes are high. This I know too. And they’re about to get higher. And both Joe the Plumber and I both might power down and take it easy in an Obama administration. No sense in working hard if the extra money will just be confiscated. And this is the very reason that socialism doesn’t work. Why do we have to keep learning this lesson again and again?

Oct 15, 2008 - 10:27 pm 49. Lily:

“McCain facial expressions said it all….I’m fustrated and angry….My mind is made up. I’m voting for Obama next month!” This wins the award for the stupidist comment of the night. Congrats.

Oct 15, 2008 - 10:31 pm 50. vivo:

What did I tell you? Boring debate, same results. Nobody changed his mind, undecided will remain undecided.

Who wants an angry president? I like someone who makes decisions conscientiously.

Oct 15, 2008 - 10:32 pm 51. skink:

CNN’s Ohio focus group of thirty independents, two-thirds said Obama won the debate.

In CNN’s overall poll, Obama won the debate by a 58%-31%margin. Among independents, Obama won 57%-31%. CBS News’ poll had Obama winning 53%-22%, while MSNBC’s focus group of independents chose Obama by a 20-7 margin.

even Fox’s Miami group gave the debate to Obama.

Oct 15, 2008 - 10:34 pm 52. john from cinncinati:

anyways, i’m gonna vote Mccain and it just doesn’t matter. i can’t believe the attacks against Palin, the smooth rhetoric of Obama the way he agree with Mccain then turns around and calls him GWB. the gap between them has been removed and we are to believe Obama is moderate and centrist, with all those associates of his. all the crackpots that endorse him. you knew i was a snake so why you crying cause i bit you?

Oct 15, 2008 - 10:36 pm 53. AST:

OK. McCain didn’t surprise us and perform like Rudy or Fred or even Mitt or Huck. So let’s all lie down and take gas.

Personally, McCain wasn’t my choice, but as Mitt Romney said on Hugh Hewitt’s show earlier, the alternative is both houses of Congress and the White House all controlled by socialists.

Nobody should be willing for economic freedom to go down without a fight.

Someone (Goldwater?) once said that anybody with the power to give you everything also has the power to take it away, and if you think that Obama’s supporters would hesitate to use that power to keep any free thinkers in line, you haven’t been paying attention. Does “ACORN” ring a bell?

These guys are your good old fashioned revolutionistas and I don’t mean that in a good way. Bush’s administration just bought up a bunch of stock in various banks with the promise that the banks can buy them back when they recover. If you think that Obama/Reid/Pelosi will stick to that promise you’ve got more faith in Democrats than I do. They’ve already been using Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to finance their vote buying among the poor for years. If they get this election, they won’t have to bother with all that runaround.

This will be the worst thing to happen to this nation since FDR was elected for a third term.

Oct 15, 2008 - 11:07 pm 54. AST:

And can I add: McCain isn’t going to do it for us. We have to do it for ourselves, our country and our children. It means turning down “free” money and “free” health care, and persuading others to do the same. If we lose this amazing birthright of freedom, we won’t soon get it back.

I’ve heard McCain telling us not to fear Obama, but that’s just another reason why I do fear him.

Oct 15, 2008 - 11:11 pm 55. Sarge:

McCain is not a debater !!! Obama is ! We shall elect a debater because McCain refuses to fight!
We will have a “slick willie” in the White House. This time do not defile MY White House !

Oct 15, 2008 - 11:17 pm 56. Justin O'Neill:

@Woody

A receptionist, another plumber, an accountant, equipment, insurance and overhead are all business expenses and therefore deductible. If all he takes home is $50k/year then he doesn’t fall into the $250k/year + tax bracket.

Oct 15, 2008 - 11:20 pm 57. The Wobbly Guy:

Most Singaporeans? Au contraire, that’s because most S’poreans don’t care, and simply accept what the media tells them. The informed ones who do their diligent research will see Obama as what he is: an empty suit with no accomplishments under his name.

Imagine if Lee Kuan Yew is vetting Obama, McCain, Biden, and Palin for a Member of Parliament role, how would they be ranked? The answer is pretty clear. Palin first, then McCain, Biden tied, then Obama dead last.

As a Singaporean, I’m hopinh for anybody except Obama. His policies would wreck the US economy and drag the rest of us down with him.

Oct 15, 2008 - 11:40 pm 58. wes george:

I can not believe this is happening. I live on an isolated sheep farm in Australia and I can’t figure out why Americans are ready to commit national suicide, which will, as result, take what remains of Western Civilization with them.

I understand from what I have read here that John and Sarah have not articulated their positions as well as Barry and Joe have hidden theirs, but this isn’t a Hollywood reality TV show. Or is it? As far as I can discern the debates were focused by Obama fawning moderators on micro-issues that favoured Obama’s mush, while dodging the meta-scale implications of Obama’s worldview.

Are you people really going to “elect” a neo-Marxist, hate-America first handsome bloke in a sharp suit to the highest office on the planet merely because he’s hoodwinked the whole lot of you with used car salesman techniques and a smooth voice? Mates, your enemies overseas like to laugh at Yankee naivete but this takes the cake.

…during the worst fiscal crisis since Carter’s malaise? …with a Congress controlled by leftist ideologues?…with China holding so many dollars that if they bolt, it’s all over? …with Iran ready to nuke Israel whenever they get it together? …with a militarily resurgent Russia? …with European allies that will stab you in the back? Jesus Christ, people, wake up! The cure for the failures of the Bush administration and a recession isn’t to hang yourself in the noose of post-modern academic defeatism and socialism, but can-do Yankee innovation!

Obama is your (and our) worst nightmare. He’ll turn America economically into Argentina destroying your military advantage and diplomatic clout and thus hand the world on a platter to whomever is the most brutal and regressively hegemonic, ie China, Venezuela, Iran, Russia, the Taliban, while encouraging emergent dictatorships elsewhere, say, Bolivia, Lebanon, Pakistan, Iraq, Thailand and Argentina.

Don’t the American people realize that they have too many enemies waiting for the opportunity to take the US down to risk installing one in the White House?

Have Americans forgotten that they are the only thing standing between a world of free markets of ideas and capital, of democracy, peace and rule of law and the Chinese/Russian totalitarian collectivist gangster model?

Joe Biden is right (an oxymoron?) This IS the most important election in our lifetime because the choice is so utterly stark–continue the project Ronald Reagan started or look to Noam Chomsky, The Weathermen, Daley’s political machine, ACORN, the UN and the EU for policy inspiration!

By failing to stay true to the simple ideals that made America great, you are about to insure that the 21st century will make the economic insanity and political atrocities of the last century pale in comparison.

God help us all.

Oct 15, 2008 - 11:41 pm 59. Lexwolf:

Maybe it’s just me but did anyone else pick up on Obama’s comment about giving Joe The Plumber a tax cut 4 or 5 years before Joe was in a position to buy the business (I suppose the tax cut would be paid for by the owner of the business Joe wants to buy)? Seems to me that Joe made it anyway to where he is able to buy the business so why would we want to take from other people to “enable” Joe to do what he managed to do without gov’t help? If Obama had been in charge, would there still even be a business for Joe to buy? Just wondering. What am I missing?

Oct 15, 2008 - 11:48 pm 60. Mongol:

“A receptionist, another plumber, an accountant, equipment, insurance and overhead are all business expenses and therefore deductible. If all he takes home is $50k/year then he doesn’t fall into the $250k/year + tax bracket.”

Someone apparently been listening to Mr. Biden too much… Watch out he’ll take you to Katie’s lol

National Median Total Cash (the total you get taxed on) for Small Business CEO/Partner/Owner is $276,327 (salary was 233,500)

for 2006 median salary was $233,600, while total cash compensation was $290,300

http://www.salary.com/aboutus/layoutscripts/abtl_default.asp?tab=abt&cat=cat012&ser=ser041&part=Par545

http://compforce.typepad.com/compensation_force/2007/12/national-median.html

Just in case someone forgot the math terms, median means middle. So over half of small business CEO/Partner/Owners make more then the $250k.

Oct 16, 2008 - 12:18 am 61. denbagus:

im asian from indonesia and i noticed how similar obama’s campaign with our local politicians , too many rhetorics and not enough substance.

i agreed with the singapore guy here, an objective person would easily penetrate obama’s facade. yet im suprised how many people in US choose to ignore the obvious. The unfairness from US media is very blatant , its like someone is trying to be a king maker and will do anything to get obama elected.

thats my opinion

Oct 16, 2008 - 12:30 am 62. bobal:

Best comment of the night goes to wes george on that sheep ranch in Australia. May God Bless ya, wes george, from here in Idaho,USA.

Oct 16, 2008 - 1:15 am 63. CFM:

wes george – very well stated. Thanks mate!

Oct 16, 2008 - 1:24 am 64. Marc Malone:

Lexwolf – Yeah, I caught that. McCain could’ve stated:

“It’s the same as giving a mortgage to someone who can’t afford it. They can’t afford it, because they lack the skills to make and manage the money. Giving them the money doesn’t improve their skills. Ya gotta earn it, like our hero “Joe the Plumber”. Ya gotta want it bad. It’s supposed to be hard… just not impossible. This is the same kind of ACORN thinking that created this whole mortgage meltdown. What the heck are you thinking?”

If McCain were a hard fiscal conservative, he’d've recognized the opening and crushed Obama on that policy. That would’ve been the ballgame, tying him to the mortgage crisis, liberal spending, and ACORN all at once.

Oct 16, 2008 - 1:29 am 65. liamascorcaigh:

Wes George:
“I can not believe this is happening. I live on an isolated sheep farm in Australia and I can’t figure out why Americans are ready to commit national suicide, which will, as result, take what remains of Western Civilization with them.”

I live in a leafy suburb in Cork, Ireland and I completely agree with you, Wes, me oul’ mucker! The American electorate have turned into what Lenin called the “useful idiots” who believed his social justice claptrap and who proved so essential to the Bolsheviks’ achieving power. Afterwards, of course, they proved eminently disposable though Stalin allowed them ten or fifteen years of shadowy existence to contemplate the catastrophe their well-meaning stupidity had wrought before delivering them to the firing squads or the living death of the Gulag.

Stranded on the sidelines while the fate of my world is being decided all I can say to the US voters intending to support the Trojan Horse Obama is to repeat the plea of Oliver Cromwell – “I beseech you, by the bowels of Christ, bethink yourselves mistaken”.

Oct 16, 2008 - 1:38 am 66. rachel peepers:

Used Car Salesman: What can I do to put you in this car?

Barack: Do you want four more years of George Bush?

Used Car Salesman: Trust me, we’ve had this baby inspected from top to bottom by experts and there’s no clear cut evidence of drive train problems.

Barack: Warren Buffet was consulted on my economic plans, and gives them his full support, though he has yet to read the fine print.

Used Car Saleman: This baby blue Edsel is destined to be
the most popular car on the road. And let me add gets up to 15MPG on the highway.

Barack: I’m going to cut taxes on people who don’t even pay taxes. And I’m going to think about making this country energy self sufficient.

Used Car Saleman: Is there anything else I can do to sell you this car?

Barack: The oil and drug companies and Joe the Plumber have it easy. We need to spread the wealth. That’s just a start.

Used Car Salesman: The time I did because of my chop shop businesses is behind me. This Edsel has never been in an accident. And that’s a promise.

Barack: Ayers and Wright weren’t the men I knew. I think I shared a coke with one, and passed by the other’s church one Sunday. Once I did Rezco a favor and he saved my a couple hundred thou in mortgage payments on my new home because Rezko is a loyal friend.

Used Car Salesmen are good wheeler dealers because they’re
slick with words.

Barack Obama is a wheeler dealer because he’s slick with words; an ability, that, in fact could get him elected President because the people who plan to vote for Barack
irrespective of terrorist connections, and criminal connections just don’t seem to care.

The fact that McCain is a real American hero matters to the pundits not a whit. The fact that Barack will leave after four years with this country in hoc up to its eyeballs doesn’t see to bother anybody as long as Barack can put it under the theme of “change”. The American people, though, might have a problem with an American that’s been bamboozled by Barack and his “Change” mantra.
In fact, the chance of electing a Democrat anyone to anything in 2012 will be slim and none.

The Average American may need a while to catch on to what Barack is up to. But once they do, the Democratic Party will, for want of a less crass term, be done for.

But I guess the Democrats haven’t looked that far into the future.

When Iran sends a couple a nuclear missiles Israel’s way and pulls a Janet Reno in Waco on Israel on a much bigger scale and annialates totally innocent people, Barack and his men will be in water so hot they might believe climate change came earlier than anticipated.

And when it gets really uncomfortable, Barack and his henchman will start realizing that all change isn’t good change.

So to speak, Barack and his Democratic Party could end up
hoised on their own pitard.

Oct 16, 2008 - 2:31 am 67. sheryl:

Because of Joe the Plummer, McCain started unmasking Obama the Socialist for America tonight.

It’s up to McCain to continue unmasking Obama The Socialist hitting his tax plans, his spending plan, his socialist connections with Ayers, Wright, Pfleger, ACORN….24/7.

Joe the Plummer and thousands more like him are the hope for the future of this country economically. As are millions of American’s who work for large companies, who strive to make the company they work for better, more profitable and to succeed so they can live the American dream.

Obama’s rhetoric speaks of American workers as victims, American companies as evil and that basically we are all losers that need the nanny state to give us lives worth living.

Plus, Obama is steeped in so much corruption from voter fraud (ACORN), his own campaign funds possibly coming illegally from oversea sources and from phantom people named Doodad, Good Will and people with gibberish names, so I don’t see him sealing the deal on November 4th.

Plus all these instant polls, I don’t believe them for a minute. If ACORN can organize voter fraud on a mass scale in more than a dozen states, they can certainly swamp these instant polling websites very easily to skew perceptions and create a false reality.

Actually, the MSM/MSM polls I think have become kinda like modern day Tokyo Roses of sort, telling Americans all is lost for McCain, no way he can win….yada, yada, yada.

Bottom line: I don’t trust Obama with money. I trust people like Joe the Plummer to create wealth and I trust John McCain to leave him alone to do it.

Oct 16, 2008 - 2:57 am 68. Herr Morgenholz:

Wes George:

Will you be needing a ranch hand soon? I can muck, feed, shear, slaughter, whatever it takes. While the world melts down, a lot of us have families to feed. Oh, and I can shoot ‘roos.

I don’t know why people are falling for Obama. It’s going to be a rough several years. After all, when you get an Irishman to quote Cromwell, you know it’s all going to hell. ;-0.

Oct 16, 2008 - 3:23 am 69. Ed Wallis:

BEG TO DIFFER, Jennifer Rubin. McCAIN WON THIS ONE HANDS DOWN.

To those above who wrote, “too little, too late”, I can only say you seem quite inexperienced to me, as
three weeks before a Presidential election is an “eternity.”

MUCH can – and will – happen to substantially influence the result (…and, no, I’m not solely referring to ACORN’s massive voter registration fraud effort).

Oct 16, 2008 - 4:00 am 70. EyeDoc:

McCain needed to make arguments that the average American could understand. I think he clearly did that. I think he laid out his proposals and shot down Obama and Biden in language that a 7th grader could understand which was all he had to do, and he looked animated and feisty while Obama looked arrogant and bored.

We won’t know until early next week, but I’ll be surprised if McCain doesn’t get a good bump in the polls from this. If the typical American voter doesn’t feel better about McCain and worse about Obama after last night, then the ball game’s over.

Oct 16, 2008 - 4:22 am 71. SAF:

While debates are fine and dandy they are not the be all and end all.

I think the main problems facing McCain is the real voter fraud that could cost him close contests and the fact no one, except certified McCain voters, seem to be worried about Obama’s record in terms of the people he has surrounded himself with and his incredible socialistic stance on financial issues. Several previous posters have pointed out (correctly in my opinion) that McCain has done a poor job of distinguishing his programs from Obama’s.

If McCain goes on to win it will be because the Clintons will have made a devastating story about Obama surface at the right time and without their fingerprints on it (such that Hillary can run again in 2012 her last realistic chance).

Oct 16, 2008 - 4:30 am 72. cedarhill:

Great analysis. McCain suffers from terminal “collegiality of the Senate” and, as such, is a throw back to the era when politicians were a wee bit more polite. He seemed stunned – yes stunned! – when Obama was telling one of his obvious lies and only resorted to mumbling about “facts are facts”. No McRockyBalboa here indeed.

But I don’t buy into all the hype that McCain needs a “game-changer”. The polls are all over the map. ACORN has stuffed so many fake Dems into so many states that even an honest pollster would have to “defactor” the number of registered Dems. Any takers on whether the pollsters have added a “take away Dems dud to ACORN” factor?

Plus, in our area there are no (as in zero) Presidential signs and I’m in a heavily Dem area. From people I know around the country, it’s mostly the same. Even a caller from Detroit into the Limbaugh show yesterday said the same. I believe it’s due to many factors:

1. Obama actual support is less than what MSM proclaims
2. Actual McCain supporters are rare
3. Conservatives are not motivated as they were in the 2004, 2000 races. They’ll vote McCain but why go out of the way for someone that seems to enjoy kicking your teeth in every now and then.
4. Both sides are concerned about the “other side” doing things to their property so it’s safer just to whistle along.

And, about the polls. There are way too many undecided voters after a two year campaign. I think those that many who say they’ll vote Obama are doing so to avoid defending a potential charge of racism; others drop into the undecided category.

As most have pointed out, to be even close to the margin of error in some of the polls is simply astounding, given all the manure heaped on Republicans this year.

His buying 1/2 hour of blanket network ad time, ala Ross Perot, shows he’s still very worried. Obama is far from closing the deal.

In the end, this will still be a referendum on Obama. Obama’s far-left plans are finally emerging. If there are a large number of undecideds at the end of October, expect the MSM media to be surprised on Nov. 4.

And about the debate, wouldn’t it have been effective if McCain:

On the abortion issue, turned to Obama and held out both hands and said “Sen. Obama, you just said that you would hold a child’s head in your hands just as it has emerged from it’s mother and then jab scissors into it’s skull and suck it’s innocent brains out. Thank you for clarifying that. That shows character!”

Ah, well, McCain is what he is. Obtw, still no McCain sign in my front yard.

Oct 16, 2008 - 4:52 am 73. Sandra M:

Will someone please tell me why Palin is fit to be Vice President or President?

Because she’s the only one of the 4 with executive experience. As Governor, she ended 30 years of squabbling over a natural gas pipeline, opened it up for new bids, and got it signed just before nominated for VP.

She’s an expert on energy from her time on the Oil and Gas Commission and energy jobs if we went full speed ahead could make us energy independent, hurt our foes by driving down gas prices and creat new well-paying jobs.

By contrast, your sky-high credit card rates are brought to you courtesy of Joe Biden, and the onerous bankruptcy law as well, and the Global Poverty Act he and Obama support that would take part of our GNP and give to the UN to help poor nations. You know how much of that money really gets to the poor? Zip.

Palin inspires people and communicates extremely well and has enough common sense never to have fallen for the “derivatives” ponzi scheme that brought down the “Masters of the Universe” on Wall Street.

Obama is a closet Marxist. Palin is Reagan in skirts.

Oct 16, 2008 - 4:54 am 74. Joy:

Can you imagine if Obama had an unwed, pregnant teenage daughter and what it would do for his chances of becoming president?

Oct 16, 2008 - 4:55 am 75. Big Al:

sure agree with george and liamascoraigh and sheryl. of course he needs to be unmasked, and it should be easy enought to do, limbaugh, gingrich, hannity, morris, et al do it daily, they present the unmasking quickly and with no misunderstanding. why can’t mccain,
is it his speech talent, or his advisors, or what? obama is running unopposed. very sad.

Oct 16, 2008 - 5:38 am 76. Listen up:

Big Brother is here and it is not who you think…it is the Media. Will someone please speak up and remind people that polls do not elect Presidents, the voters do?!!!!!!! The Media is trying to wash our brains and glaze our eyes with their constant, pulsing Obama tunes. Resist! Pass the word the media is not just the Obama pied piper it is the enemy!!!!!!Long Live the bloggers, long live thinking Americans.

Oct 16, 2008 - 5:38 am 77. paca:

Republicans sound like middle school children – I am a maverick – joe six pack – now joe the plumber – I’m a soccer mom – Obama’s a terriorist – They insult American voters but that is what Republicans do – lie and pretend that they care for middle class and then run our country into the ground by taking care of their rich corporate buddies and lobbyists. Funny in eight years absolutely nothing has changed in regards to abortion and thats the tool they use for the single minded religious fanatics that could care less what happens to a child’s welfare after it is born. Thank God it is an end to error and Obama will win by a landslide!

Oct 16, 2008 - 5:39 am 78. Valerie:

McCain is smart, and he did exactly what he needed to do. There’s no such thing as hitting a “home run” or landing a “knockout punch” in a Presidential debate. Attempting to get that result is a blunder, because the kind of behavior that will satisfy the noisiest partisans will also alienate the voters in the middle. McCain said straight out, and without rudeness, what needed to be said about the Obama Campaign and its spokesperson. Obama claimed that ALL of McCain’s ads are “negative,” which is not true, but frankly, there is a lot about the Obama Campaign that is ill-advised. Obama was attempting to classify a candid description of ill-advised plans and actions as “negative campaigning,” a loaded and pejorative term.

In my opinion, Karl Rove nailed it: Obama, the alleged front-runner, did not close the deal. The man has one talent: he can give a weak answer with the appearance of confidence. Anyone who has bothered to study up on the issues must notice. I did. I got tired of his lying about midway through the discussion about Joe the Plumber, where he tried to tell us that John McCain is trying to get special tax cuts for oil companies, and John McCain said “We’re talking about Joe the Plumber.”

Let’s be clear about our tax code: it is already very progressive. That is, people who make more money do not just pay more because they make more (as they would if everybody paid the same percentage) but also because they are taxed at greater rates. And the tax on businesses is about as high as it gets, world-wide. This is a policy that pushes businesses, and the jobs they could generate, out of this country.

Further, having the government take a chunk out of millions of small business’ income, and then attempting to “spread the wealth” is a most inefficient means to stimulate the economy, and is subject to diversion from the original purpose.

To get government money to go anywhere, there has to be legislation, project approval, rules approval, and finally, grant approval. This takes months. Even so, the money may be diverted.

To get a small business’ money into the economy, the decision to go forward can be made on the spot. Further, when a business makes a decision, the money is not subject to diversion for other purposes.

Barack Obama has grant experience, not business experience. Further, when he was charged with spending grant money, he let it be diverted from its original purpose to political organizing, so that the original purpose (education) was not accomplished.

We have in recent memory, after the attacks of 9/11 and other shocks, demonstrated that, if the individual business unit is given the power to provide an economic stimulus, our economy can turn on a dime. That is because prudent, timely decisions are made without the extra cost of government and diversion of purpose. That is why tax cuts for businesses work.

Oct 16, 2008 - 5:47 am 79. Listen up:

paca, Not everyone went to Harvard. Thank God!

Oct 16, 2008 - 5:48 am 80. tom:

McCain didn’t hit the many softballs set up his way, but he was effective on showing Obama’s tax the plumber, healthcare run by government is ineffiecient etc

If he takes these points and expands on them in the next three weeks with effective everyday man ads he wins the election

Obama’s jocular smug smiles and outright lies while McCain hit him on Acorn, Ayers, Abortion were telling.
People see through it

I watched overtly biased NBC and they had a six person panel of independents from Virgina. they asked question after question which seemed to favor Obama. Then they asked if any were swayed and why. 1 Obama, 3 McCain – and one who had just spoken positive on Obama’s economic plan said he realized that a government run health plan would be a disaster – and changed to McCain. NBC in shock retracted quickly away from this

as for polls and electorial vote Zogby Obama was only up 3.8%. Kerry was up 8% at this time

Electorial – Mccain gets all the red states except Iowa and maybe CO, NM. He also takes Pennsylvania (THe puma vote and insulted conservative dems hand that one to McCain). The polls are highly deceptive and the people are angered. The handout mentality vote won’t get off their you know what (as Obama has it in the bag) and the conservatives who care about this country going into the toilet will get out and vote

Oct 16, 2008 - 5:52 am 81. Listen up:

paca, Dems are such sweeties…I bet you and all your friends have those sweet, little green Palin T-shirts and wear around your neighborhood when you go out to register illegals to vote.

Oct 16, 2008 - 5:53 am 82. Rick:

School budget cuts have must have deprived some people of civics and history classes. Socialism is when business and government band together to funnel public funds to benefit private business interests. Industries support politicians and governments pursue domestic and foreign policies [like invasions and corporate welfare]to add to this largesse. In other words what we have had now for eight years. If my job is insecure, my mortgage is in jeopardy, I can’t afford health care or college for my kids, my 401K is evaporating and I could wake up in the morning and be engaged in another undeclared war I don’t need any more negativity. Bill Ayers is not an A-list celebrity on my crises list. Politicians should stick to the issues and propose solutions. Obama is pursuading undecided voters and winning the center not pandering to the fringes of the democratic party. Old soldiers need to stop fighting the last war [if your a moderate stay a moderate]and to correct a famous presidential malaprop “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool we twice shame on me. Republican party we’ve been there done that.

Oct 16, 2008 - 6:04 am 83. Turtledove:

“NU Student for Obama:

HONESTLY??! If Joe the Plumber is going to be making more than $250,000 then he is no longer “Joe the Plumber”!!”

This kind of comment really makes me mad. Do you have ANY IDEA of how hard you have to work in a small business to make $250,000 or more?! Running a small business means working your butt off, taking huge risks, worrying and praying that all goes well. Why should Joe or anyone else do all that if Obama is going to reach in his wallet and tell him he is making too much profit! Why work hard and try to grow your business if you could work a little less, employ a few less and make the same amount on money? Obama is taking away incentive! I don’t understand how anyone who is not a socialist could vote for Obama.

Oct 16, 2008 - 6:04 am 84. GA lady:

Has anyone taken the time to check the facts of the accusations McCain brought to Obama or those Obama brought to McCain? What is the truth? Is Obama working with terrorist or Acorn? Did McCain vote with Bush each time? Where are the facts and proof?

Oct 16, 2008 - 6:08 am 85. Turtledove:

“They insult American voters but that is what Republicans do – lie and pretend that they care for middle class and then run our country into the ground by taking care of their rich corporate buddies and lobbyists.”

Another stupid and insulting remark by an Obamapod. How many “rich corporate buddies and lobbyists” were there in the Hanoi Hilton with John McCain? Forgive me because I am what you call a stupid Republican, but I don’t think that McCain is willing to sell out his fellow Americans NOW to “rich corporate buddies and lobbyists” any more than he was THEN to the North Vietnamese! Try contrasting that with Obama who has shown he will associate himself with every America-hating radical leftist he can, if it will net him some short term political advantage.

Oct 16, 2008 - 6:15 am 86. O'badrock:

Aren’t you a bit hysteric about this?
Obama is a socialist who is going to throw americans into goolags and support crazy dictators! he’s going to sell america to foreigners! He will destroy everything that makes America great! the world is about to end!

man…

When will you stop with this socialist paranoia? not everyone who wants the rich to help support the poor is going to steal all your money and rule by terror.
Anyway, even Hillary Clinton is more socialist then Barrack Hussien Obama.

It doesn’t really matter which way these elections are going to end, nothing fundamental is going to change. no-one can compeletly change the USA overnight. what will happen are small directional changes. and in four years time, you can decide if you want to continue going down this road, or change course again.

Oct 16, 2008 - 6:37 am 87. tanstaafl:

I thought McCain did excellently & was on point and fired up. The debate moderator (finally !) asked very good questions and managed the discussion very well.

I think Joe the Plumber is the best spokesperson for the American way of life and the survival of the American Republic that anyone could imagine.

“I don’t like it,” said Wurzelbacher. “You know, me or — you know, Bill Gates, I don’t care who you are. If you worked for it, if it was your idea, and you implemented it, it’s not right for someone to decide you made too much.”

Joe The Plumber: Obama Tax Plan ‘Infuriates Me’

Oct 16, 2008 - 6:43 am 88. Will Sharpe:

Sarge: “We will have a “slick willie” in the White House. This time do not defile MY White House !”

Too late; take a look at the current occupant. I thought last night’s debate was the best of the three, and both candidates performed well. Although, I do think a number of responders here need to take a step back and breath, or else they’ll lose their minds if Obama wins on election day.

Oct 16, 2008 - 6:45 am 89. Ed Wallis:

Ahh, the trolls are out in numbers today.

Oh well, maybe Joe Wurzelbacher can point something out to them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdLPWfTczM4

“Obama’s Proposal Scares Me Because It’s Just One More Step Towards Socialism”

Oct 16, 2008 - 6:51 am 90. J. Stone:

Senator Obama’s “coolness” is scary? Oh, please! I appreciate Senator Obama’s level headness and his ability to express himself without his viens popping out of his head, the ridiculous smirks, rolling eyeballs and huffs and puffs. This isn’t presidential behavior. Our next president will have to rebuild our status around the world, speaking with heads of state who he mayn’t like or agree with, and he needs to be able to interact with people in a professional and even manner.

Privately, I am sure Senator Obama raises hell behind closed doors, huffs and puffs etc, but I definately want a “cool” mannered person taking the 3am call.

Oct 16, 2008 - 6:53 am 91. USAF Captain:

Woody writes:

“NU student for Obama: the tax on $250,000 is from a business, not the what the owner takes home.”

Woody, I agree with you but, much as I hate to say this, I would suspect that the 250 large is the NET taxable income from Joe’s business, the bottom line on his corporate, partnership, or sole proprietorship return that he files. It will be that amount that, supposedly, The Magnificient One has his henchpersons in congress assail with a higher tax rate.

However, if Joe has more of his money taken at that level — well, then — he mightn’t able to hire that extra plubber, clerk, or Summer gofer, will he?

My advice for all of the Joes and conservatives out there: fasten you seatbelts, it’ll be a bumpy ride..

..and keep grooming Gindall, Palin, and all of the other true consevatives who are waiting in the wings when these clowns are given the hook.

I wonder how “NU Student’s” football watching days are goin? Seen better, I’ll bet.

Oct 16, 2008 - 6:56 am 92. J. Stone:

Captain Paintball, FYI, McCain has had positive things to say about ACORN. Do your research!

Oct 16, 2008 - 6:57 am 93. Lisa:

The GOP or SOMEONE need to spend the next 17 days playing an ad of Jesse Jackson Jr. saying that ‘Zionists’ will lose power in DC with Obama over and over again in Florida, Ohio, Michigan and other swing states.

Zionist is code for Jew and this statement that Zionists have control of DC is anti-Semitic. It will totally flip out Israel supporters who are on both sides of the aisle.

Oct 16, 2008 - 7:03 am 94. Dave in NC:

McCain is simply unable to articulate the case for small government, probably because he doesn’t believe in it himself. I think independents and swing voters look at these two men and say to themselves – “both of these guys are obviously bigger government guys, but at least one of them wants that bigger government to be more concerned with my well being as opposed to the well being of those in power.”

In other words, the GOP has nobody but themselves to blame for the coming drift to the left.

Oct 16, 2008 - 7:07 am 95. Stephanie:

Who is going to actually answer Joy’s question?

Oct 16, 2008 - 7:12 am 96. Rotwang:

A sad night for McCain. He unloaded his “big guns” — Ayers, ACORN, “infanticide” — in a completely half-assed and ham-handed manner, and Obama calmly called “bullshit” on all three. It was like watching an episode of George Reeves as “Superman” — McCain emptied his clip to zero effect, then panicked and threw his gun. And all the time, Reeves/Obama is just looking at him like, “Don’t you people get it yet? I’m freakin’ invulnerable.”

Also, while McCain may not be Bush, his “confused-old-man-making-funny-faces-and dancing-a-jig-because-he-doesn’t-know-which-way-to-exit-the-stage” routine was a classic Bush schtick.

Oct 16, 2008 - 7:16 am 97. Lisa:

Ross asked:
“People are saying that race is not an issue. Well “my friends” picture both candidates as African American, in this case we would only have to change the appearance of John McCain. All things considered, who would you ote for?”

Assuming Obama was still the sexist pig he is and McCain had a woman running with him… McCain. Black or white.

Oct 16, 2008 - 7:22 am 98. proud elitist:

and, paca, the R’s talk to people like they are in gradeschool/middle school. As though they lack the capacity, as adults, to understand anything.

I have to say, this was definitely McCain’s best night. Probably good to have him confined to a chair and not doddering around. Nonetheless, he just could not pull anything off.

First, he had two senior moments:

1) Equating Sarah Palin/Special Needs Children/Autism. THe manner he spoke conveyed to me that he thinks Trip Palin suffers from autism, not Down’s Syndrome.

2) He accused Obama of blocking the votes for both Justices Roberts and Breyer. Breyer? Um, he’s been a SJC since 1994. I believe he meant Alito.

NOTE: Obama never corrected him, which I found classy.

He lost it when talking casually about a “health of the mother” provision in Bills he was accusing Obama of not supporting. The way/manner he seemed to casually dismiss the health of the mother was a definite “game changer”. Although, not in a good way for him.

((Oh geez. Palin just repeated McCain’s line “If Obama wanted to run against Bush, he should have done it four years ago.”))

When he brought up Ayers and ACORN, Obama shot him down. McCain failed to link its importance to his campaign message and to the wider issues at hand in America.

And when Obama described why he chose Biden versus McCain describing why he chose Palin, it was obvious that Obama respects Biden. McCain just repeated the same old stuff: reformer and special needs children.

Again, Obama chose to act classy when asked to say whether Palin was quailfied to be President. Because we all know what his answer would be…

Oct 16, 2008 - 7:24 am 99. Edward A.:

In the polls taken immediately after the third debate, pundits called it a draw. The interesting aspect of the voting is that many Americans voted it an overwhelming Obama win. Is this because the people feel Obama will be the next President and want to identify with the winner…or…as mentioned by a number of commentators …when the sound during the debate is off and one is looking at the candidate speaking, especially when it is a split screen…McCain comes across as a cross, angry old man…and Obama is smiling, relaxed and confident. I guess most people want the later for this country.

Oct 16, 2008 - 7:42 am 100. Self-hating boomer:

Has it ever occurred to anyone that 0bama’s tax plan details are irrelevant, because it’s a campaign promise from a machine politician? His promises are worth about as much as confederate money. He’s a politician, for cripes sake. These details don’t mean diddly squat.

Let’s talk about some things that we know for sure, like Acorn’s crimes.

Oct 16, 2008 - 7:44 am 101. Jim Baker:

What debate were you people watching? McCain smoked Obama and I don’t even like McCain.

Oct 16, 2008 - 7:57 am 102. Russian Bear:

Now, what is needed for the democrats to have the republicans defeated is more Sarah’s Palin public speeches and interviews.

Oct 16, 2008 - 8:00 am 103. gadfly:

like RICH Joe is supposed to make us feel sorry for him

Oct 16, 2008 - 8:04 am 104. view from afar:

nustudentobama whatever…many people who own a business like Joe the plumber, have on paper income of over 250,000…the problem is, that is not Joe’s take home income and socialists tax that on paper income that small businesses make, and part of which goes to re-investement in their business, maybe to hire someone else, maybe buy things that create other jobs, but socialists just DO NOT understand this…I live in a socialist country and this is the biggest complaint that most small business owners, farmers, etc make. I agree with Freida, but I would hate to lose the America I grew up with that allows someone to create his own wealth, take calculated risks(not the mess we’re stuck now), and create something rather than live in another country where the government decides how much of your own earned income you’ll get to keep, how much you will have to spend on getting mediocre (french sorry) health care, on so forth God bless AMerica and may McCain carry my home state, and win.

Oct 16, 2008 - 8:05 am 105. KD:

Well put, proud elitist.

McCain is definitely not a class act.

Political ideology aside (we all know that neither man’s “vision” of governance will really change anything for Joe the Plumber), Obama’s intelligence and graceful demeanor will be a welcome change!

Oct 16, 2008 - 8:10 am 106. independent:

‘Joe the plumber’ + hockey moms are hardly a majority in US today.
McCain preached to his coir described above but failed to address the regular folks like me.
By the way, statistical data shows that the average plumber makes less than 45K/year, well below the 250K tax bracket.
Vote for real change!

Oct 16, 2008 - 8:12 am 107. chuck,:

Sorry to toss an O.T. but maybe somebody here knows the answer.

Would President Obama have the Constitutional authority to unilaterally scrap the US nuke weapons?

That scares me. A lot.

Oct 16, 2008 - 8:14 am 108. cfbleachers:

Jennifer, for the most part, American political debates are, by and large… window shopping for the impulse buyer.

Of necessity, the painting of issues is done in broad strokes, and far too often…in shades and hues predetermined by the little numbers etched into the canvas ahead of time by the handler’s “talking points”. In point of fact, painting by the numbers…in broad strokes…is an art form unto itself that only a politician could admire. Senator Obama is free to use all the colors, Sen. McCain may use them, except for the color black.

Let there be not one shred of doubt, Senator Obama is a better debate team member. His public speaking skills are finely honed and in the delivery of broad stroked, paint by numbers ideas and notions, he has a monunmental advantage. If we were voting for President of the Debate Club, or Toastmasters, it would, and should, indeed be a landslide.

Another enormous built-in advantage for Senator Obama, is the “framing” of the issues. Playing to the intensity of dislike of the current holder of the position, much of this race as been framed (in no small part by the crooked entrenched media) as “Not Being George Bush”. Every time Sen. McCain decries the “last 8 years” as being something that was a horrible experience for Americans, he spills paint on his pants. Quite frankly, until a couple of years ago…coincidentally, something of interest coincides with that timeframe, the stock market, the economy and the average American was doing pretty well.

If Senator McCain has a glaring weakness, it is this: He wrestles the alligators in the water instead of on land. He uses the reinforcing phraseology of the dissembling of his opponents!

Jennifer, I think the world of your writing and of your principles. But, I must disagree on a couple of points. Senator McCain did NOT need a knockout punch to be landed during the debate. He needed to force some issues out of the show window and into the main lobby.

Ayers in a vacuum can be ignored. ACORN in a vacuum can be ignored. Rezco in a vacuum can be ignored. Jesse Jackson’s comments in a vacuum can be ignored. Jeremiah Wright in a vacuum can be ignored. Rashid Khalidi in a vacuum can be ignored. The New Party in a vacuum can be ignored. Frank Marshall Davis in a vacuum can be ignored. Robert Malley in a vacuum can be ignored.

Usually, in a fair contest, the American public would be given the facts and evidence to weave the threads through the fabric of a candidacy. Since our entrenched media have decided to be openly, brazenly and nakedly crooked in this election, somebody else has to do that…AND…get the message out to the people. Another monumental disadvantage for Senator McCain. Somebody needs to shine a spotlight on the binds that tie together the radical extremism, the anti-Americanism theme, the anti-Middle America feel and the palpable anti-Israel (and “Zionist influence”) that is bubbling barely beneath the surface…. that surrounds the campaign, indeed the entire life…of Senator Obama.

If the corrupt and cheating media won’t do it…asking Senator McCain to deliver a “knockout” punch by himself, in a format that doesn’t lend itself to it, with a biased media who won’t follow up on it, in a medium that won’t stand for it…is simply asking too much.

If we don’t help to finish this picture, if we don’t supply the vivid display of the actual landscape…then WE didn’t deliver the knockout punch. We are in a ring where the ref is crooked, the judges are “fixed” and the guy who rings the bell is in the tank for the other side. You want a knockout punch? It’s time we helped this to become a fair fight.

Oct 16, 2008 - 8:17 am 109. Mitchell:

Um, guys, we’re already socialist. Republican President Bush proposed major nationalizations of U.S. banks (by buying ownership stakes using taxpayer money), and the Congress agreed (with Democrats and Republicans voting for it, including *gasp* John McCain!). Oh, and the bill was full of pork barrel spending (goodies, as McCain would call them).

I can’t believe you guys missed that. Not so sharp…

Also, majorities or pluralities of Americans believe Obama won this debate, according to multiple polls and focus group, including the FoxNews focus group run by Frank Luntz.

So, you can either concede that Obama won, or argue that the FoxNews channel has a liberal/pro-Obama bias. Cheers!

Oct 16, 2008 - 8:17 am 110. tanstaafl:

…“both of these guys are obviously bigger government guys, but at least one of them wants that bigger government to be more concerned with my well being as opposed to the well being of those in power.”

McCain is hardly a “bigger government” guy.

For the record, if you vote on the basis of promises of how government will “care” for you (you’re not big enough to care for yourself ?) the seeds of totalitarianism have taken root and our Founding Principles disastrously compromised.

In all areas of human endeavor that have declined in my lifetime (education, healthcare, the “financial mess”, just for starters…) government interference (and subsequent bureaucracy and mismanagement) has been the cause, not the solution.

Oct 16, 2008 - 8:19 am 111. RW:

That Obama can’t keep his lying straight is beginning to tell. He came up with a brand new one on the Born Alive Protection Act and like all his earlier untruths, this one also is false.

Obama has far more records locked up on his background than ole John “I’ll sign and release my military records” Kerry. There’s a reason for that.

People are not looking at the guy’s record. They are listening to his dissembling. We can see through it.
But sadly, you have to cross an ocean to hear the truth:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephillips/2293196/pinch-yourself.thtml

Oct 16, 2008 - 8:21 am 112. Howard:

So far, all the conclusions by all the pundits are
totally based upon POLLS. Not a single actual vote
has been cast yet. Obama supporters gush at how
well their man has done in the debates, which proves
once again that Obama is a good debater and a good
speaker. It doesn’t say anything about his character,
judgement, or what kind of a leader he would be.
I still would rather trust a man who would not sell out
his fellow prisoners, even during 5 years of torture,
than to trust a man who betrayed a 20 year friendship,
for personal ambition. And … regarding this election,
until people actually vote … it ain’t over till it’s over!

Oct 16, 2008 - 8:22 am 113. KD:

The candidates talk about nuclear power freeing us from dependence on foreign oil. Just how does that work? Perhaps we’ll start driving nuclear-powered cars, buses, trucks, and flying in nuclear-powered planes?

Oct 16, 2008 - 8:27 am 114. Mark:

After 26 years of failed ‘trickle down’ economic policies it will be nice to have a genuine leader take the helm of this country. And it will need a great one as we are on the brink of another Republican Great Depression. Congratulations on a great debate President Obama.

Oct 16, 2008 - 8:43 am 115. JohnRJ08:

Last night, John McCain demonstrated that he is unable to display any self-control and grace in a pressure situation. The exaggerated facial expressions and forced grins that looked more like grimaces revealed a man who is incapable of self-control. At the end of the debate, McCain jumped out of his seat and lurched toward Obama, repeating “Good job! Good job!” in an incredibly manic and disingenuous gesture. This was after he had spent a third of the debate derailing an otherwise useful discussion of the issues by bringing up William Ayers and ACORN. Did McCain think anybody but his own hardcore, right wing supporters would find this edifying? Did he actually think he was going to convince anybody that Obama has terrorist sympathies or that he condones, or has ever orchestrated voter registration fraud? Then McCain raised the abortion issue, which he knows full well is one of the most divisive issues we face in this country, again to pander to his base. I found McCain’s demeanor in this debate classless and startlingly juvenile for a man who wants to be the leader of the most powerful country on Earth.

Oct 16, 2008 - 8:43 am 116. Believer:

McCain had his best night of the three. Although he continued to garble his words and not make his points as clearly as he could, he did make BO squirm more than a few times.

I found most disturbing BO’s reactions – smiles, fake ones I thought: “I’ll just flash my big grin so no one will know I’m uncomfortable with the truth” – especially his big laughing/grin when McCain connected him to ACORN and spoke of how its fraudulent activities jeopardize our election process.

It creeped me out that he would laugh at the mention of something so serious. But it summed up for me just where he’ll take us as a nation. Right into hell with him laughing all the way.

And he did as expected: continued to lie about his involvement with ACORN – and Ayers, for that matter.

More than once McCain missed opportunities to go back and hammer the truth so I’m hoping more ads – and Palin – over the next few weeks will further inform the public.

It’s shocking how little the public knows. And how much more there is to tell about the radical involvements of this most liberal man.

The man is as slippery as they come. I thought it was almost refreshing to see McCain making his valid points without the ease of an accomplished liar. Con man he is not.

BO is another story.

Oct 16, 2008 - 8:44 am 117. Becky:

As an Independent, I was greatly disappointed that Sen. McCain did not appear to be the unifier he says he is and that we need. Calling Joe Biden’s ideas “cockamamie” and “bad,” and his disdain for the concerns of pro-life/abortion people on “health” concerns were opportunities missed by McCain, while Sen. Obama chose the opposite path. The raised eyebrows and incredulous expressions didn’t help either.

Meanwhile Sen. Obama continues to refuse to engage in personal attacks. McCain-Keating trumps Obama-Ayers any day (not to mention Gov. Palin’s delusion that she was cleared of all legal (true) and ethical (not true) concerns in Troopergate.

The good news is that this debate gave me the rest of the information I needed to make my voting decision.

Oct 16, 2008 - 8:55 am 118. tom:

K.D. are you serious?

most generated electricity comes from oil, natural gas and coal. This accounts for 60% of the hydrocarbons consumed.

If you go nuclear – you cut the demand on oil to run powerplants and factories

Oct 16, 2008 - 9:08 am 119. JohnRJ08:

What the so-called private sector has done to this economy over the last ten years is widen the gap between the rich and poor and concentrate the vast majority of the country’s wealth in the hands of far too few. That wealth has encouraged graft and political corruption at the highest levels in order to perpetuate the status quo. Those who throw the term “socialism” around like a cudgel, hoping to frighten voters away from Obama, are out of touch with the reality faced by this country and much of the world. If the rich continue to get richer and the poor continue to increase in numbers and get pushed into the most poverty-stricken areas, you’re asking for something akin to the French Revolution. There are over 300 million people in the United States, and the notion that we can maintain our relatively high standard of living for the majority of that population without paying to maintain infrastructure and instituting government programs not driven by profit motives is counter-intuitive. Trickle-down, which is at the core of McCain’s economic plan, didn’t work because it ignored the basic human qualities of avarice and greed. It’s time to get real. It’s time to try something new, or face the consequences.

Oct 16, 2008 - 9:12 am 120. mikeVA:

Jennifer Rubin a farce, a hack!! This person pushed McCain to the nomination with misinformation and fables. Get out. And take Regency, whatever publisher, and that network of hacks!

Oct 16, 2008 - 9:25 am 121. Someone75:

Read the interviews with “Joe the Plumber” – he admits that he does not expect to make anywhere near 250k, and thus, he would see a tax break under Obama’s plan. Not only that, but he doesn’t even pay the taxes he owes now! The state says he owes over $1200 in unpaid personal income taxes. Yes – nominate the tax-dodging liar. You can hate taxes if you want (and who wouldn’t), but if I have to contribute, YOU have to contribute too.

Oct 16, 2008 - 9:26 am 122. Believer:

Please, everyone, read #111 – “RW’s” link.

The disturbing truth about BO is not being told – McCain won’t touch it – and Michelle’s conversation being reported at

africanpress.wordpress.com

only substantiates the valid concern that we’ve only begun to see the damage our country will suffer with an Obama presidency. Wright, Ayers and other radical associations have shaped him and he and his wife cannot hide who they are for long.

It’s all about race, folks. I’m sorry to say.

I hope we learn who they are now. Not later. God help us all.

Oct 16, 2008 - 9:29 am 123. Sandy Salt:

Once again this discussion just goes to prove that the election is nothing more than the old high school class president. It is strictly a popularity contest for the vast majority of the voters. If you look presidential then you should be the next president, policies be damned. Has anyone thought to ask what spending Obama plans on cutting? I know because it will the the same the Clinton cut, defense. We all saw how that turned out. This country is at it’s best when we have a strong and supported military (RR Era). When we see the military as a piggy bank for social programs then we get Carter and Clinton results. In case you don’t remember Carter allowed Iran to take and hold hostages up until the day he was tossed out of office. If you don’t think that all those enemies that are rooting for Obama aren’t licking their collective chops at the idea of his winning then you are truly deluded.

McCain is not presidential looking and isn’t promising the sky, so don’t expect him to be elected. Obama on the other hand is smooth and measured, he could play a president on TV, which he plans later this month. The American public has and will flock to him because they are hurting and angry at the Republican party. Nothing in the next three weeks is going to change the feeling that the Democrats can’t be any worse then the bozo’s there now. The truly sad part is that it will make little difference who wins the White House because we will still have the most corrupt,greedy, and free spending Congress in history. McCain would only slow the train before the crash because he never has been willing to shut the Democrats down. His crossing the aisle was always in favor of the Democrats and not the Republicans or the American people. Obama on the other hand is a neophite that will speed the train to the wreck.

Oct 16, 2008 - 9:32 am 124. fresh air 08:

…after last night’s debate – I would like for every one supporting the McCain/Palin ticket to take a deep breath and concede. Our country needs real change!

Folks…get your facts straight as for ACORN, Karl Rove and company tried this same stunt in 2004/2006. AND with reference to Ayers…Obama was 8yrs old -…cmon folks wake up and smell the Obama/Biden victory! Vote for real change.

Oct 16, 2008 - 9:46 am 125. sonya:

Nurse Who Exposed Infanticide-Based Abortions: Obama Lied During Debate

by Steven Ertelt
LifeNews.com Editor
October 15, 2008

Email RSS Printer

Chicago, IL (LifeNews.com) — The Chicago-area nurse who exposed the practice of life-birth abortions that led to he bill Barack Obama repeatedly opposed in the Illinois legislature says Obama lied about his record during the final presidential debate. Jill Stanek says Obama again misrepresented his position and record before the American people.

As LifeNews.com reported, John McCain took Obama to task during the debate when the topic turned to abortion.

“Sen. Obama, as a member of the Illinois State Senate, voted in the Judiciary Committee against a law that would provide immediate medical attention to a child born of a failed abortion. He voted against that,” McCain said.

Obama responded to the charge by repeating his claim that he voted against the bill because it would have undermined Roe v. Wade, the Supreme Court case that allowed virtually unlimited abortions throughout pregnancy.

However, as Stanek explains, Obama voted for an amendment to the bill to mitigate those concerns and subsequently voted against the legislation anyway.

Stanek said the bill, the Born Alive Infants Protection Act, “simply stated all born alive babies became legally protected persons immediately upon birth, no matter what gestational age and no matter if unwanted abortion survivors.”

“Obama voted against this straightforward human rights legislation four times stating as the sole state senator speaking against it on the Senate floor in 2001 it would be ‘unconstitutional’ to declare very premature abortion survivors persons,” Stanek explained.

Obama also defended his votes against the anti-infanticide bill by claiming “there was already a law on the books in Illinois that required providing lifesaving treatment.”

Stanek also called that a “lie” saying “Illinois abortion law to this day only protects abortion survivors their abortionist deems fit to live.

“The potential for subjective assessments in these cases is clear to all but Obama. In fact, Obama opposed closing this loophole by voting against legislation to mandate a second doctor be present at deliveries of all live abortion survivors to independently assess their viability,” she said.

Obama not only voted against the bill to protect newborns who survive failed abortions but the Chicago-area nurse says he took a leadership role to defeat it.

Stanek points to Obama’s own campaign web site which indicates he approached the Illinois Planned Parenthood affiliate to develop a strategy to defeat that measure and the ban on partial-birth abortions.

Despite Obama’s claims, Stanek says Obama ultimately voted in 2003 against a version of the bill identical to a Congressional anti-infanticide bill the Senate approved on a 98-0 margin and on which the pro-abortion group NARAL took no position.

“He then purported several times, as recently as August 16, 2008, that the bills were not identical and he would have supported the Illinois version had it been the same as the federal version,” she said.

Obama’s campaign finally had to recant from that position after documents from the Illinois legislature proved him wrong.

“I’m beyond disgusted that Obama continues to repeat the same lies without the mainstream media investigating and denouncing him. We’ll see what tomorrow brings,” Stanek concluded.

Oct 16, 2008 - 9:48 am 126. Jim Baker:

Becky, have you ever voted before? If you have, have you ever voted for a Republican? Or are you another of the paid Obama trolls?
Joe Biden’s ideas on Iraq WERE preposterous. I have watched that guy run for President for over 20 years now. He has never gotten double digits in any Democrat primary. In his life he has only captured a small handful of delegates to any Democrat convention. He has never been popular even among Dems outside of Dover, Delaware. He gets his facts backwards and plagiarizes other politician’s speeches. He invited Sara to his favorite restaurant which was closed down 20 years ago. McCain was easy on this buffoon because of the collegial atmosphere of the Senate.

Oct 16, 2008 - 9:49 am 127. Roark:

McCain will lose the election for many reasons that are legitimate for those of use who value liberty. But, a big reason is that he suffers from ‘Stockholm Syndrome’, ie he identifies with his enemy and is unwilling and/or unable to expose him as the evil bastard he is. Also, on the one hand he accuses Wall Street of ‘greed’, but on the other he wants to freeze pork spending and cut taxes???-you can’t have your cake and eat it, too. Either you support a man’s right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, the American Dream, or you don’t. Folks, get used to saying President Barack Hussein Obama ********shudder***********

Oct 16, 2008 - 10:04 am 128. JohnRJ08:

Oh, great. Let’s definitely focus on the abortion issue, because that’s something that NOBODY agrees on. Plus, it’s a great way to make someone seem immoral without having to prove why. Call Obama a baby-killer and get it over with. That’s what you want, right? Ridiculous. The only difference between most Republicans and Democrats on the issue of abortion is that the latter wants the personal right to choose it or not choose it to continue while the former wants their personal point of view to become the law of the land. Just because you’re pro-choice does NOT mean that you’re pro-abortion. That’s fallacious logic.

Oct 16, 2008 - 10:06 am 129. Ed Wallis:

Jim #126, I bet Becky #117 is a troll. Firstly, I question folks who start out their post with “as an independent” (think of our dear – ahem – Astroturfing acquaintence “Jeff” the “true independent”). Otherwise, I can’t for the life of me understand how she could think McCain – who was exonerated from the Keating 5 scandal – “trumps” Obama’s year-long involvement with Ayers at the Woods Fund/Chicago Annenberg Challenge in the 1990’s…he sure wasn’t “only 8 years old” then.

Believer #116, I’m glad I wasn’t the only one who noticed Obama’s Cheshire Cat grin…and, speaking of “telltale” facial reactions, did you also notice his “deer in the headlights” reaction when McCain mentioned Ayers? Can’t wait to hear more about this pair.

Oct 16, 2008 - 10:12 am 130. tanstaafl:

Read the interviews with “Joe the Plumber” – he admits that he does not expect to make anywhere near 250k, and thus, he would see a tax break under Obama’s plan…

Joe wants to buy a plumbing business, which business’ net income would exceed Barry’s $250,000 magic number.

Generally speaking, someone you’re not particularly credible as a propagandist.

Oct 16, 2008 - 10:21 am 131. tanstaafl:

AND with reference to Ayers…Obama was 8yrs old -

Barack Obama was 13 years old when Ayers and the Weather Underground orchestrated one of their last (physical, anyway) assaults on American “middle classness” and “capitalism”, bombing the state dept. in January 1975.

You and Obama both need to work a little harder on addition and subtraction

Oct 16, 2008 - 10:25 am 132. sheryl:

JohnRJ08 says:

“It’s time to try something new, or face the consequences.”

ROFLMAO….there is nothing new about Obama’s “tax the rich” economics.

Obama The Socialist wants to take more money from hard working people (an incentive btw for not working harder) and take that large chunk of money which could’ve been used to create more jobs or used to give raises or to give bonuses to employees or used for creating new products or services which in turn would create even more money and jobs, and raises and bonuses…..

Obama The Socialist wants to take that hunk of money/profit and break it up into teeny weeny, itsy bitsy little amounts of money so more people can be in line for handouts.

Obama thinks the economy/wealth/prosperity is a zero sum game and it isn’t…..never has been and never will be.

Oct 16, 2008 - 10:40 am 133. Rick:

Why do people think calm and collected is somehow a measure of being presidential. With a bit of anti-anxiety medication we could all be Obama like. Why are Obamas 5 minute endless rambles more powerful than a McCains crisp concise answers. I want my president a bit pissed at big spending, obstructionist do-nothings in congress. I want my president pissed at the Osamas,Putins,Chavezs and Achmadinajads of this world. I want a doer with a record of accomplishment and not a never accomplished anything big talker. My last thought is I want a president with many years of life and experience, and most importantly the wisdom acquired on that journey.

Oct 16, 2008 - 10:43 am 134. Sandy Salt:

Rick, couldn’t agree more, but the sad reality is that the American public on large is still stuck in high school when it comes to elections. Obama is the it guy and looks cool, plus he is promising the world. McCain is the teacher and teachers never get elected class president.

Oct 16, 2008 - 10:51 am 135. Woodyman:

Give me a break! McCain looked totally unpresidential. I can’t imagine if he were president and went to a meeting with foreign dignataries, looking like that. We used to call it a **it eating grin.

Oct 16, 2008 - 10:55 am 136. JMS2008:

JOHNRJ08:
You’re right that pro-choice doesn’t mean pro-abortion, just as it doesn’t mean anti-life. However, you’re wrong on the republican, or should I say, Anti-abortionist, view of abortion. It’s not that they want their opinion to be the law of the land, that’s the silliest and most unreasoned analysis I’ve heard in a long time. Anti-abortion advocates put the rights in the child, not the mother. I, personally, am pro-choice, but I understand the anti-abortionist analysis. It’s that every person is a life from conception, and every person has a right to live. That’s it. It’s not just an opinion. It’s their analysis, and they’re very consistent about it. The pro-choice analysis puts the ultimate right in the woman to choose (up until viability) what happens to her body. To say that they want their opinion to be the law of the land is as silly as anti-abortionists saying the same about pro-choice proponents.

I was very surprised to hear Obama call abortion a “moral issue” last night in the debate. That doesn’t sound like a liberal, pro-choice, Constitutional lawyer’s idea of the abortion issue. That sounds like a conservative view to me. If one is pro-choice, then abortion is not a moral issue; it is a privacy rights issue. Very interesting that Obama calls it a moral issue. Very interesting.

Oct 16, 2008 - 10:56 am 137. Matt:

For those saying John McCain won last night’s debate, I offer these other interesting hypotheses you might wish to throw your lot in with:

1) Bigfoot really exists;
2) Aliens have visited planet Earth, but the government is covering it up;
3) There appears to be some kind of “monster” living under Scotland’s Loch Ness.

I won’t say that you look ridiculous when you say John McCain isn’t losing/the MSM is giving a biased view of the race; but I will say that you look very irrational.

Erratic, even.

Oct 16, 2008 - 11:03 am 138. Jeff:

Obama’s talk of abortion being a moral issue is just another example of him talking out of both sides of his mouth. He says exactly what he thinks America wants to hear and denies everything that makes him look like the snake in the grass that he is (Ayers, ACORN, Rev. Wright…do I need to go on?). Obama is another prime example of the socialistic illuminati, but he is a polished one, there’s no denying that.

Oct 16, 2008 - 12:09 pm 139. sheryl:

“For those saying John McCain won last night’s debate, I offer these other interesting hypotheses you might wish to throw your lot in with:

1) Bigfoot really exists;
2) Aliens have visited planet Earth, but the government is covering it up;
3) There appears to be some kind of “monster” living under Scotland’s Loch Ness.

I won’t say that you look ridiculous when you say John McCain isn’t losing/the MSM is giving a biased view of the race; but I will say that you look very irrational.

Erratic, even.”

Joe the Plummer won the debate Matt or haven’t you’ve been listening.

Obama The Socialist is the irrational one. He actually thinks that redistribution of wealth works!

Even Canada wants to remain conservative….Canada.

You have to be a mental midget to not know that the MSM is biased.

They’ve done more background checking into Joe the Plummer in the last few hours than almost two years of Obama running for POTUS!

If it wasn’t so tragic it would be hilarious.

Oct 16, 2008 - 12:21 pm 140. Believer:

#119JohnRJ08 thinks “basic human qualities of avarice and greed”

have caused ‘trickle down’ economics to fail.

He says “It’s time to try something new…” — like BO’s appealing to ENVY, perhaps? Or SLOTH? Let’s reward those. Let’s encourage that.

Those are the “human qualities” socialists prefer. They’re the ones that put THEM in power — assuring their own “avarice and greed” are more easily exercised. Not to mention their “pride” is sated.

Oct 16, 2008 - 12:31 pm 141. Cory:

I don’t know what debate you all were watching, but I just saw McCain eat Obama for breakfast!

Oct 16, 2008 - 12:55 pm 142. AZ Attorney:

Wow, there is a lot of misinformation that floats around on these boards. A lot centering on “Joe the Plumber.” It is funny that the guy is all up in arms over what amounts to $900. If you listen to the clip of his question to Obama, at the most he expects the company he wishes to purchase will make $280,000. Meaning, Obama would increase his rates on everything he makes over $250,000, or a measly $30,000. Obama’s plan is to increase that rate a whopping 3%. Meaning, Joe would pay an additional $900. Poor guy.

Despite what others on here have stated, that tax will only be on Joe’s take home pay. My wife runs her own business. Luckily her expenses aren’t what Joe’s would be as a plumber, but we deduct them all. Supplies, equipment, rent, etc, etc, etc. Meaning, she is taxed on none of it, nor will Joe be taxed on any of it. We combined make close to the $250,000, but are not over it at the time being.

I would have no paying a few hundred dollars more on our pay…but that comes at the time of year when the salary from my employer increases about 6%, because I no longer pay social security taxes on my income above a certain amount (I think it is slightly over $100,000 this year). So, while Joe may be paying 3% higher, he actually receives a 6% reduction on about $150,000 income, because he isn’t paying social security taxes on it. And, yes, that money does go to pay for things out of the general fund, such as the Iraq war, education, etc, etc.

So, quit whining as us socialists are about to clean your clocks!!!! lol

Oct 16, 2008 - 1:31 pm 143. tanstaafl:

AZ Attorney

Barack Obama didn’t say anything to Joe the Plumber about “only” raising taxes on an amount in excess of $250,000. I’ve not seen Obama mention that phenomenon, either.

Here is the exchange

“Your new tax plan is going to tax me more, isn’t it?” the plumber asked, complaining that he was being taxed “more and more for fulfilling the American dream.”

“It’s not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody who is behind you, that they’ve got a chance for success too,” Obama responded. “My attitude is that if the economy’s good for folks from the bottom up, it’s gonna be good for everybody … I think when you spread the wealth around, it’s good for everybody.”

BTW, since you’re into clock cleaning, you might advice the Democrat Presidential candidate that it isn’t the responsibility of a President of the US to redistribute income through taxation.

Although you, personally, seem gleefully willing to throw more cash down the government sh!tter. I guess that’s because your own cash, unlike Joe the Plumber’s, isn’t what we call “hard earned”.

Oct 16, 2008 - 2:03 pm 144. tanstaafl:

advice=advise

Oct 16, 2008 - 2:05 pm 145. Mandy:

Unfortunately, McCain has no “upper hand.” His campaign is empty of substance, All he has is raging ambition on his side, and undiluted rage on Palin’s side. Any wonder he is being rejected by the American electorate?

Oct 16, 2008 - 2:18 pm 146. AZ Attorney:

tanstaafl:

I love comments like yours, due to its simple logic and total disregard for learning facts. You really do not understand how the tax system works do you?

Simple test on two people with vastly different incomes:

Person one has $15,000 in taxable income.
Person two has $1,000,000,000 in taxable income.

Who pays more of their income in taxes for their first $15,000 earned?

The answer is quite simple—it is equal. On the first $15,000 each person earns in a given year, they will pay the same amount of taxes on that sum.

So, Obama has said he won’t be raising taxes on persons making $250,000 or less. Meaning, his top tax rates will be set at $250,000. Meaning, that person making a billion dollars will be paying the same amount of taxes as Joe the Plumber on his first $250,000. It really is quite elementary and I hope you hire a new tax guru for 2008 if you don’t understand it already.

Oct 16, 2008 - 2:19 pm 147. Someone75:

tanstaafl:

Just because a fact doesn’t support your argument doesn’t make it propaganda. All I did was relay what I’ve heard on every news network today – including Fox.

Oct 16, 2008 - 2:24 pm 148. tanstaafl:

No (pretend innocent someone 75) your statement was a flat out falsehood.

For the tax attorney, I quoted exactly what Obama told Joe relative to an increased tax liability once he had actually purchased a (profitable) plumbing business.

As for taxes in general, some 40% are already paid by the top 1% of earners. The bottom 30% of earners (which might include your $15,000 earners) pays no taxes at all.

Barack Obama’s “plan” actually involves freebies or rebates to individuals who already pay no federal income taxes.

It’s part of his agenda to, in his own words, “spread the wealth around”.

Oct 16, 2008 - 2:58 pm 149. Listen up:

The dems believe their own propaganda. So does the media.

Oct 16, 2008 - 3:13 pm 150. tanstaafl:

Here are a couple of WSJ articles from some guys who aren’t quite as enthusiastic as AZ atty. relative to Obama’s welfare, uh, “tax” plan.

Obama’s 95% Illusion

Obama’s Tax Plan Is Really a Welfare Plan

Oct 16, 2008 - 3:14 pm 151. Marc Malone:

Joy – I’ll answer your question about what would happen if Obama had an unmarried pregnant daughter: Nothing. Nothing at all. It would Be “off-limits”! That’s why McCain is not pushing the Rev. Wright issue. It’s about race. Obama would get a free pass on a Pregnant duaghter… as anyone should.

AZ Attorney – The limit on SS is 102K, going to 106K next year. However, this is where Obama’s plan hurts the small biz. He’s talking about lifting the cap. Also, self-employed people pay both the employee (themselves) and the employer share. Together, that’s 15.2%(?) on whatever his take-home pay is. Add that to 39.6% federal income tax, and whatever PA’s income tax is. He’s looking at a tax burden of close to 60%. That’s why he’s dubious about his ability to go into business for himself.

Even if it were “just the 4.6% increase” (not 3%, 39.6- 35= 4.6), we’re still talking of well over a grand, in addition to everything else.

For the dummies who think that looking Presidential means anything, and are worried about McCain’s ability to deal with foreign leaders, remember that he has already met a great many of them, and they already like him. He’s EXPERIENCED, remember?

Oct 16, 2008 - 3:23 pm 152. Freeedom is just another word:

Whenever I see Obama do his beautiful smile, I know he’s lying through his teeth and caught red handed. Every time McCain was saying a truth I know from reading the newspapers, Obama would smile. He looked like the cat who ate the mouse.

Oct 16, 2008 - 5:51 pm 153. rachel peepers:

Here’s a classic example of the Obama slight of mouth magic trick that no one seems to be able to pick up on.

During the last debate, McCain said that Obama never votes against the wishes of his party. In other words Obama never crosses the aisle. Obama marches in lock step with his party on all votes. How many more ways must it be said?

At the same time, McCain gives numerous examples, with the scars to prove it, when he, McCain, crossed the aisle and voted against the wishes of the Republican party.

When it was time for Obama to respond, he did not deny the correctness of what McCain was saying about Obama’s voting record.

Obama said, “Oh, well, there were many instances when my votes angered my constituiences. (the people of Illinois whom Obama represents).

But the question wasn’t about going against people who elected Obama to office.

The question was about voting lock step with your Party. Which are two very different things.

And Obama got away with this verbal dodge.

McCain should have jumped all over him, saying the issue wasn’t about votes that please or displease the voting public.

It was about voting with or against the members of his Democratic Party.

The fact is, Obama gets away with this kind of disingenuousness all the time. Nobody calls him on it.
If they did, he wouldn’t be in a position to possibly be elected President. It’s the job of newspeople, bloggers, talk show hosts and political opponents to sound the BS buzzer when Obama misstates facts time after time. Unfortunately, they’ve fallen down on their job. And allowed a blame-America-first, tax America into a depression, get sweetheart mortgages from Rezko criminals and let twenty years of racist preachers venom just lay there Barack Obama act like it it never happened. And matters not a whit.

Pressing a vote for Barack Obama is like pressing the trigger of a six shot revolver with only one bullet in the gun after the cylinder has been spun. If your desire is to play Russian Roulette with America with a redistribution of wealth scheme that would make Stalinist Russia proud, then be my guest and fire away.

But if you believe in the beliefs and traditions and freedoms on which this country was founded, you’ll elect to say no to a good speech maker and say yes to a real American hero who to the very marrow, believes in decency, fairness and the freedoms on which this country was founded.

It’s not the size of a Presidential candidate’s rhetorical flair that most matters.

It’s the size of the commitment.

Elect Barack Obama and come 2012, you may not even be able to afford the trip to the polls.

Oct 16, 2008 - 5:59 pm 154. gadfly:

First response -Obama has not even had 1 term as senator

mccain did NOTHING until after hsi 1st term

DUH!

Oct 16, 2008 - 6:36 pm 155. gadfly:

marc malone has fake numbers AGAIN

Oct 16, 2008 - 6:38 pm 156. gadfly:

you must all be morons, there is a thing called a transcript

Obama NEVER said, “Oh, well, there were …”

Oct 16, 2008 - 6:41 pm 157. tanstaafl:

First response -Obama has not even had 1 term as senator

Actually, less than that, gad (or is it fly ?)

Barack Obama has been essentially “running” for President since becoming a US Senator in 2005.

According to his own statements, he has been actively and prominently “running” for about 20 months, but, in fact, it’s longer than that incredible number of months he acknowledges.

He has missed the vast bulk of US Senate votes (he wasn’t even there to vote “present”) as a function of all this frenetic “running”.

And I still don’t know what the hell he “stands for”. You guys seem to like him because (you think) he’s gonna stick it to the rich guy.

I think the plan is more like stick it to the Representative Republic. Nancy Pelosi is ready to assume the Prime Ministership under the new parliamentary system while her puppet Barack Obama gets to rubber stamp the agenda, as President.

I hope this helps.

Oct 16, 2008 - 7:17 pm 158. gadfly:

fine – dont address the point,

you (all) lie and then switch the subject instead of answering,

he has not voted party line on every vote

another lie, palin has trained you well!

Oct 16, 2008 - 8:53 pm 159. Believer:

Yes, Obama has been running for President for as long as he’s been a Senator, but he did take time out to campaign for “cousin” Odinga during the primaries.

africanpress.wordpress.com

has the story and a tidy roundup at the end that speaks volumes about the Democrat candidate — not favorably. (Wish I knew how to transfer the quote here.) A Time Magazine report that Obama made calls to “calm” the violence following Odinga’s loss corrects my suspicions he wasn’t bothered by the violence. I hope that’s true, because it ultimately caused the deaths of many – including 50 Christians taking refuge in a Church. They were burned alive. And reportedly Odinga people instigated the violence.

But Americans might be interested to know the man Obama campaigned for in Kenya. He was not the one who would have aided our efforts in defeating terrorism. In fact, he would have damaged them.

Questions loom in my mind as to why Obama chose to be so involved in this man’s campaign. Especially when he had so much on his own plate at the time. Supposedly, their campaigns bear alot of similarities. Who was learning from whom?

Oct 16, 2008 - 8:56 pm 160. Chris in Toronto:

McCain did exactly what he needed to do: air all of Obama’s negatives in a “direct to the audience” format, in effect forcing the deadwood media to do its job. They, these relics of the twentieth century, have now been called to the carpet in front of the whole school. They have now to answer the charges, to “investigate” and report what they find, otherwise they lose what little is left of their credibility. And for what it’s worth, McCain’s ads have been “negative” because the media has not done its job: exposing the negatives.

This debate, like the rest, have been tactics in McCain’s strategy. His tactical mission was to force Obama onto the defensive while forcing the deadwoods to do their jobs, now, in the final three weeks when voters are most reachable.

Prepare for a lot of basketcases as their realities deconstruct around them! When McCain opened up, as he did a few times, I was reminded of a video I’d seen about the metal storm weapon system (http://www.metalstorm.com/content/view/64/109/). I thought it remarkable. And all Obama could do was smile, nod and blubber! Hilarious! Even more so was the gripless spin from the ‘heads at CNN (AC360)—even _they_ couldn’t pretend convincingly that Obama won. And while the “polls” were as to be expected, namely that Obama won, what was unexpect was the AUDACITY of the numerical discrepancy with the evidence of my own eyes. (Bad word choice, but it sure fits!)

Finally, McCain slyly withheld the most damning bit of ACORN evidence, namely his having been “Leadership Trainer” to the big cheeses at ACORN-Chicago. He withheld other stuff, too, that we know about because we’ve read about it on PJM (YAY!). Why? Because there are still three weeks to go. Ammo is needed for the final showdown. I’m expecting tanks at high dawn. Well, maybe not, but I do expect a shot fired at Obama the day of his “big buy” to throw him off his game and to disrupt the news cycle that Obama is expecting and a further, more devastating blow the day after, ripping control of the news cycle from the control of the deadwoods. We’ll see.
To me, it seemed as though Bob Scheifer was actually giving McCain more time; but I’m guessing it was just that so much was fired in such rapid succession that threw me off.

Oct 16, 2008 - 9:26 pm 161. nick:

I dont mind your GOP lies as much as I mind having to waste time to post the SNOPES lin kthat says you are lying.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/kenya.asp

Oct 16, 2008 - 9:39 pm 162. Believer:

Your link, nick, doesn’t address the information contained in the africanpress article. Sorry your time was wasted.

Oct 16, 2008 - 10:25 pm 163. Believer:

nick — How true is the story in the africanpress about Michelle making that call to their offices there?

They say they’ll release the tapes if it’s within legal bounds to do so.

If true, she sure said some things she’d like to take back, don’t you think?

Oct 16, 2008 - 10:41 pm 164. Believer:

I’m sorry, nick, I see why you thought I was lying.

Your link expended most of its efforts refuting the claim – by Odinga – that the two are cousins.

I thought it was clear I, too, don’t buy the relationship — note I used quotes around the word. Like this: “cousin” Odinga.

All the more reason to question why Obama spent so much time aiding him and his campaign, don’t you think? Not a very nice guy is he, that Odinga fella?

But maybe he’s just Barry’s type. Why not? When you consider Wright, Ayers, Farrakhan…well, you get the idea.

Oct 17, 2008 - 12:01 am 165. Believer:

Intimidation tactics are being used against Plumber Joe.

He’d better hope BO doesn’t get elected. Can you imagine how they’ll harrass him should they get more power?

BO won’t forget what he did.

Vote McCain/Palin — protect Plumber Joe!!!

Oct 17, 2008 - 12:12 am 166. Marc Malone:

gadfly – You may be right about my numbers. I pull them from memory. I used to know them really well. Instead of just attacking me, simply correct me.

So, I looked at my numbers, and you’re right. I slipped a decimal point. If Joe makes 250K, at 4.6% that’s over 10k, not 1K. My bad. Of course, if he only gets taxed on a take-home of 100K, because the tax rate is based on his gross, not net, then it’s “only” $4,600. Again, my bad. See, I don’t mind admitting when I’m wrong.

Oct 17, 2008 - 1:08 am 167. sonya:

Obama the Marxist Messiah
Proof is in the Public Record.
“The public record is our only proof,” says former Naval Intelligence Officer Marion Valentine.
“In 1963, while serving in Navy Intelligence (1958-1967), I read the FBI file on Frank Marshall Davis. He had outlined the Communist plan to take over America from within, by installing educators at all levels of our educational system, gaining control of the media, getting Liberal judges appointed, recruiting, training and backing people to be elected to public office.
“I have researched every piece of legislation I can find that the Liberal Democrats have passed since the early sixties, and if you will research for yourself, you will find that they have been slowly moving this country toward Socialism.
“When Obama announced he was running for President as an unknown with only one major speech at the DNC (that the DNC and MSM made so much fuss over), he aroused my old intel suspicions. So I started researching.
“I have not found any evidence to convince me he is a Muslim, bur I did find his radical associations were unusual. I found Frank Marshall Davis, who had fled from Chicago to Hawaii when Obama was 12 years old, was Obama’s mentor from then till Davis died in 1987.
“Davis put Obama in touch with the Socialist Party in Chicago (called the New Party) which Ayers is also a member of, (emphasis added) therefore the first “Planned” contact with Ayers. The New Party helped launch and finance Obama’s political career. Obama…selected, trained, groomed and scripted to become the “puppet” leader of the United Socialist States of America.

Oct 17, 2008 - 8:03 am 168. Betsy:

The Final Presidential Debate: Not a Game Changer?????

You must be “looking at the world through rose-colored glasses”

Joe the Plumber changed the game!

Oct 17, 2008 - 10:19 am 169. Average American Mom:

Why I am voting Democrat!

I’m voting Democrat because I believe the government will do a better job of spending MY MONEY than I would. I think when you spread the wealth around it is good for everybody! It’s Patriotic!

I’m voting Democrat because I believe that business should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. All profits are evil and should be confiscated for Government Redistribution.

I’m voting Democrat because I believe that MORE Government regulations and higher taxes on Business will stop Business from exporting their jobs to Countries with LESS Government regulations and lower taxes.

I’m voting Democrat because I believe terrorists should be allowed to have trials in American courts. And be able to subpoena top secret documents, soldiers, government officials, etc. to cross examine for their defense. They should have ACLU lawyers who can help intimidate Americans who serve on the juries!

I’m voting Democrat because I believe in a FREE government health care system. I believe doctors, nurses, hospitals, drug companies, etc. will gladly donate their time, products, services, facilities, etc. for FREE and that will be a better system.

I’m voting Democrat because I believe in and support trial lawyers, frivolous lawsuits and outrageous jury verdicts.

I’m voting Democrat because I believe 9/11 was an inside job to con the American people to go to war for oil.

I’m voting Democrat because I believe social security is solvent and that there is a social security lock box and I don’t believe social security is a Ponzi scheme.

I’m voting Democrat because I believe Gay Marriage should be the law of the land and will probably produce better children.

I’m voting Democrat because I believe English should not be the official language of the United States. I don’t mind pushing one for English when I use the phone.

I’m voting Democrat because I believe partial birth abortion is okay but water boarding a terrorist is disgusting.

I’m voting Democrat because I believe having a domestic terrorist like Bill Ayers as a close friend is a good thing. It allows for great relations with foreign terrorists.

I’m voting Democrat because I believe MOST AMERICANS are bitter and cling to their guns and religion. Let’s rid our country of guns and religion!

I’m voting Democrat because I believe illegal aliens deserve all the rights of ordinary Americans plus some additional rights Americans do not have.

I’m voting Democrat because I believe groups like ACORN who register felons, drug addicts, wino’s, homeless drifters, illegal aliens, dead people, children, fictional Disney characters, etc. makes my vote count more.

I’m voting Democrat because I believe celebrating the winter solstice shows compassion for the small minority of people that do not celebrate Christmas.

I’m voting Democrat because I believe hard core criminal murders and rapists deserve life and that the innocent unborn deserve death. It’s a choice I can live with.

I’m voting Democrat because I believe Bush caused Hurricane Katrina and he blew-up the levies in the ninth ward of New Orleans.

I’m voting Democrat because I believe our soldiers are AIR RAIDING villages and killing innocent people.

I’m voting Democrat because I believe sex in the Oval Office with an intern is a private matter and that everybody lies under oath about sex.

I’m votin Demokrat becuse I wus edumkated at a publick sckrool. I lik da NEA!

I’m voting Democrat because I believe that any one who is not partaking in one of the many wonderful government programs obviously has too much money and should pay higher taxes.

I’m voting Democrat because when we pull out of Iraq the terrorists will be happy and now think of us as good people.

I’m voting Democrat because freedom of speech is fine as long as it does not offend people. Can’t we all just get along?

I’m voting Democrat because I believe oil companies’ profits are wrong. I believe higher taxes on oil companies will produce lower prices at the pump.

I’m voting Democrat because I believe we need to rid ourselves of dependency on foreign oil, BUT I AM AGAINST offshore drilling for oil and natural gas, drilling in Anwar, building nuclear power plants and clean coal technology.

And finally, I’m voting Democrat because I believe Reverend Wright when he said “GODDAMN AMERICA” and “OUR CHICKENS ARE COMING HOME TO ROOST”. Hey let’s make a comfortable nest for those chickens!

Why are you voting Democrat?

Oct 17, 2008 - 11:54 am 170. rachel peepers:

To Average American Mom:

I’m glad you asked. Because I’m just an average American college girl.

To begin with, I’m voting Democrat because the lenient Bush tax cuts have enabled white America to further devide this country between the haves and have nots. As the revered and respected John Edwards has many times said. There can no longer be two Americas.

Secondly, and along similar lines, I’m voting for Obama because his bold plan for redistribution of wealth marks the first step this country has taken in the direction of full social equality.

I’m voting for Barack Obama for the clever way he’s used the economic crisis to get elected.

I’m voting for Barack Obama because I believe in diversity, and we’ve never before had a President on a first name basis with so many criminals and terrorists (even if you don’t include Ayers, Dorne and Rezko).

I’m voting Democrat because I love the way they’ve used the politics of personal destruction to smear that bald, offensive, homeowning questioner, Joe the white Plumber.

I’m voting Democrat because I want a President whose money lending friend, Tony Resko, has the courage of his convictions.

I’m voting for Barack Obama because the only white people I hate more than poor white, pickup-driving Wisconsin maggots are filthy rich old white people, usually of Jewish descent who often live in Florida.

Along racial lines, much like Obama said his Grandmother was racist, I’m voting Democrat because Barack wants a face to face meeting with the noble leader of Iran who wants to turn Israel into one big nuclear Waco style Renoesque. barbecue.

I’m voting for Barack Obama because as editor of the Harvard Law Review he wrote an op-ed on the need to force reparations in the amount of at least $100,000 per person to be paid to any black person over the age of 18 who signs a statement that they’ve suffered mental anguish because of racism.

I’m voting Democratic because Michelle Obama had the temerity to admit she’s never been proud of the “Racist country I live in.” (Tuesday, June 4, 1996 speech)

I’m voting for Obama because he alledgedly thinks (Farrachan Reporter, July, 2001) that every white soccer mom like Sarah Palin should know what it’s like to be the servent of a black master.

I’m voting for Barack Obama because he has such a nice, friendly disposition compared to John McCain, the alledged war hero who actually signed a document admitting to being a war criminal who bombed innocent civilans.

I’m voting for Barack Obama because within 16 months of assuming the Presidency, he’s pledged to remove all American war criminals from Iraq and turn the country over to the peace loving Islamic fundamentalists of the region.

I’m voting for the Democrats because it’s time the “Fairness Doctrine” was implemented as a preventive measure to silence the anti-Democratic speech of conservative talk radio. There is no constitutional right to hate speech which is what conservative radio is all about.

I’m voting Democrat because I, like Barack Obama, believe we can solve this energy crisis by keeping our tires inflated and getting a good night’s sleep.

I’m voting Democrat beause they believe voter fraud is simply a way to deal with John McCain’s program of voter supression.

I’m voting for Barack Obama because now I don’t feel bad about sitting in church for twenty years and not paying attention to what was going on around me.

I’m voting Democrat because if I go crazy and choose to blow up government buildings, I can always count on Barack Obama to be my friend.

And, finally, I’m voting for Barack Obama because anybody who supports the slaughter of more than a million unborn a year can’t be all bad.

Or can they?

Oct 17, 2008 - 10:37 pm 171. UNDECIDED:

OMG…someone said FOX is unbiased LMAO!

Thats like saying SNL is unbiased!

Oct 18, 2008 - 1:06 am 172. The Hatred is unneccasary...all polls STILL say Obama is practically president:

umm yea…”Joe the Plummer” was NOT a game changer. He was basically an idiot. I watched his interviews about closing off our borders and America not having to admit they messed up in Iraq.

On the plus…if he was chosen as Vice President nominee. That would have been a “game changer”

LOL

Oct 18, 2008 - 1:13 am 173. Russian Bear:

The cons and neo-cons who hate Obama may write whatever they want here, but people who are going to vote for Obama do not read this site. What sense does it make talking to yourselves about how bad Obama is? Venting your disappointment and grief?

Oct 18, 2008 - 8:51 pm 174. Marc Malone:

What good does it do? I wrote a response about the Ayers issue once, changing the story to a right-wing bomber. It’s now being used in commentary on various TV shows and in various articles. Shoot, even Ann Coulter has used it. A really well-made point eventually will reach even the ears of undecideds. It also arms someone else when dealing with someone whose vote they might actually influence… like a neighbor.

Besides, what good would it do to post on HufPo? They just delete opposing viewpoints.

Oct 19, 2008 - 5:13 pm 175. Electric Venom » It’s Too Late To Fix McCain’s Message:

[...] every opportunity he has to talk about the economy in solid, clear-cut terms, McCain backs off, hesitating to go for the knockout with a clearly honed explanation of the pitfalls behind [...]

Oct 22, 2008 - 1:34 pm

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