Pajamas Media

22 Comments

1. SAF:

I find it not a coincidence that the Gaza-Israeli truce ended late on US election day. The USA under Bush prevented the Israelis from effectively dealing with the Gaza issue. I find it amusing that the Israelis allow Hamas to take potshots at the power plant in Ashkalon while simultaneously providing power from that plant to Gaza. There will never be peace in the middle east unless all Israelis die or Israel proves to the Palestinians that there is nothing further to gain by terrorism. Neither of these will happen anytime soon if ever.

So the game will continue and escalate until there is another major conflict that shuts down large portions of middle east oil so the prices can take off and provide much needed lucre for the Russians.

The Russians having learned from their experiences in Vietnam and Afghanistan that being the supplier of weapons to combatants is much more effective than being combatants. So they keep arming Syria, Hamas and Iran knowing full well that if Tel Aviv is seriously bombed or that the Israelis try and take out Iran’s nuclear capability the Straits of Hormuz will be toast.

From all indications Obama will try the diplomacy route and force Israel to do the same. The Russians have no interest in a peaceful outcome and the Palestinians want the Israelis dead. Last time I checked both sides need to want peace to achieve it and at least to me we clearly are not there.

It will be interesting to see Obama’s solution to this.

Nov 8, 2008 - 4:54 am 2. Ann:

There are 58 million people in the United States of America who did not vote for Barack Obama to become President. So knock it off with the “…we did it!” already. When all of Barry’s chickens come home to roost, I have absolutely no intention of having them hung around my neck.

Nov 8, 2008 - 6:09 am 3. Michael:

Wow, you must move in completely different circles of Israelis – and of American olim/expats than do I. I don’t know anyone outside of the media and the left wing establishment here that thinks it’s anything shorty of a complete disaster that Obama has won, with the entirety of the Western press openly running interference for him.

Of course, your comment about the Livni button speaks volumes about your own biases. Sharon, Mazuz, Beinish, Olmert, Livni, Peres and until last week Beilin have worked hard to destroy Israeli democracy and rebuild its political culture in their own image at whatever cost to country and nation.

I sincerely wish you and your family safety and health in the maelstrom to come in the Middle East. Just don’t hold yourself out as being representative of the American expat community in Israel, or of Israelis. I’m too busy worrying about how to protect my own children from Iranian, Hezbollah, Syrian and Hamas missiles to give a hoot about the shades of elation felt by Jordanian or Iraqi bloggers.

Nov 8, 2008 - 6:17 am 4. Shef Rogers:

Israelis like Ms. Freid will no doubt be cheered that Obama has appointed Rahm Emanuel his chief of staff. Emanuel’s father, who fought in the Irgun, a Jewish paramilitary group wish a very nasty reputation for killing Arab civilians, told the Jerusalem Post his son “wouldn’t be going to the White House to clean the floors; what is he, an Arab?”

Nov 8, 2008 - 6:28 am 5. R a Z o R:

Peace through strength has always worked the

best for peace loving people .

Just as a child quickly learns not to put it’s

hand into the fire may others know that America

loves peace . MITT ROMNEY * BOBBY JINDAL 2012

Nov 8, 2008 - 7:58 am 6. Ken Besig:

I wholly agree with you Michael, I have no idea where Stepanie Freid gets her information. I too am an Israeli American Jew who has made my home in a small settlement in Yehuda/Shomron/ Israel for almost thirty years, and I can tell you, that without any doubt, that most of my ex pat and Israeli born friends see the Obama Presidency as a developing disaster for Israel and the Middle East. I would point out too that all the public opinion polls done here among former Americans show up to 80% distrust and have no faith in Obama.
We have had far too many well intentioned and all too powerful American leaders and their Secretaries of State come here to try to impose their “vision” of stability and peace on us. Tragically, their ignorance, inexperience, lack of judgement, and desire for “balance” have only brought so much trouble and bloodshed that not too many of us trust any of them.
All of them, including Bush and Rice, and now Obama, have either exhibited absolute ignorance of the situation here or have substituted a demand concessions from Israel and “hope for the best” dream of accomplishing something.
Of course their ignorance is nothing compared to the Israeli Left which has been in cynical denial for decades as regarding the real reason why peace between Israelis and Palestinians is a non starter. And that reason is the immutable and burning Palestinian desire for the destruction of the sovereign and democratic Jewish State of Israel and the extermination/expulsion of every Jew living here.
Tzipi Livni is perhaps the embodyment of this political and historical denial, a failed princess of one of Israel’s royal families, who tries to convince Israelis that just one more concession will do the trick, or that one more Israeli leader bootlicking meeting with a Palestinian terrorist will bring some sort of concession from them.
I as with Michael, see Stephanie Fried’s support for Livni as a sign that Stephanie hasn’t got a clue about Israeli American Jews and knows nothing whatsoever about the Israel Palestinian conflict.
I am truly sorry that Pajamas Media chose to include such an uninformed, ignorant, and politically naive writer to write about the Israel scene for this blog. Simply put, Stephanie Freid has no idea what she is talking about.

Nov 8, 2008 - 8:26 am 7. David Thomson:

“Israelis like Ms. Freid will no doubt be cheered that Obama has appointed Rahm Emanuel his chief of staff.”

Huh? I am a bit confused. Why should Israelis be cheered that Rahm Emanuel is Obama’s chief of staff. Logically speaking, that should scare the hell out of them! Emanuel also served in the naive Clinton administration that pushed policies which resulted in the murders of large numbers of Israelis. Is somebody smoking an illegal substance? Good intentions are simply not enough. One’s head has also got be in the right place.

Nov 8, 2008 - 12:21 pm 8. josil:

It’s hard to see how Israel can long survive its well intentioned friends in the U.S. and its home grown “hope for the best” strategy–one of continual failure. Some people never learn from experience—they are called idealists.

Nov 8, 2008 - 1:37 pm 9. radical_moderate:

Oh for god’s sakes, the man just made Rahm Emanuel (jewish, AIPAC, lived in Israel, and is famously PRO Israeli) his chief of staff. Further I just heard a newspaper editor, I can’t remember the name of his paper, but obviously NOT The Jerusalem Post, LOL, opine that many native born Israelis were pro-Obama while newly arrived settlers were not (surprize, surprize.)

Whoever the President was going to be wouldn’t have had a magic wand to heal the rift between the modern Israelis and the Arabs who have lived on that land for 14th centuries; clearly if the hardest line Neo-Cons couldn’t fix the situation, Obama’s moderation deserves a go; we must consider that it was the Liberal Carter that got Sadat to stop declaring war on Israel every few years.

Nov 8, 2008 - 2:19 pm 10. myth buster:

Israel will survive because the Lord will protect her. I cannot guarantee same about America.

Nov 8, 2008 - 5:25 pm 11. Michael Lonie:

Liberal Moderate,
It wasn’t Carter that got Sadat to make peace with Israel, it was Sadat, who was fearful of Egypt becoming a Soviet colony. In Begin he found a hard-nosed counterpart who could deliver a peace treaty. Carter was merely a facilitator.

People who try to force a peace on the region act in ignorance of one thing: there is nothing Israel can do to bring about peace. No act by Israel will have the slightest effect of moving peace forward. All the initiative belongs to the Muslims who want to destroy Israel and commit genocide on its Jewish population. Israel withdrawals from Lebanon and Gaza just brought more attacks on Israel. When Israel has proposed negotiations the Arabs rejected them. Only when Sadat (and later Hussein) took the intitiative to make peace was peace made, then Sadat was murdered for it. All the pleadings of Israelis and Americans could not bring Arafat to agree to peace, or live up to any agreement he made. Thus the world will have to wait until the Muslims decide to make peace for another such peace to be made. It will wait a long time.

When the Palestinian Arabs are sick of being killed when they make war on Israel, when mere talk of making war so sickens them with fear of the consequences that they rise up to oppose whoever makes the suggestion, then they will want peace, and peace can be brought about. Until then, they will continue to want war. That is where the initiative lies, and until it shifts there will never be peace.

Nov 8, 2008 - 6:47 pm 12. Bozoer Rebbe:

we must consider that it was the Liberal Carter that got Sadat to stop declaring war on Israel every few years

Sorry, but that’s pure unmitigated bovine excrement. One of Jimmy Carter’s more odious actions has been unduly taking credit for the peace treaty between Israel and Egypt.

The treaty between Israel and Egypt was due to two men, Sadat and Begin. Long before Carter got involved, Sadat had, perhaps not seriously, said that he’d go to Jerusalem if he was invited. Begin called his bluff and invited him. Camp David was about details, not the basic concept. If anything, Carter’s involvement was an obstacle to a treaty because he invariably supported the Arab position contra Israel.

Nov 8, 2008 - 8:21 pm 13. kinzi:

PM, thanks for the honor of the mention! Not my usual Jordanian readership by any means.

Nov 8, 2008 - 11:27 pm 14. Pajamas Media Picks Me Up With Saudi Jeans, Gila, Roba & Neurotic Iraqi Housewife « my treasure:

[...] http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/watching-obama-from-the-middle-east/#comment-147920 [...]

Nov 8, 2008 - 11:46 pm 15. lirun:

Stephanie is not deserving of some of the harsh words thrown around in this comments section..

im not one to shy away from political conversations and having collected many more than a few opinions leading up and following the US campaign – i confidently believe that israeli society (olim and native) are fairly fragmented on this one..

not every israeli views the world strictly by “what is good for the jews”.. some actually see the event for what the great achievement that it is for a society that until recently showed mostly signs of decay and rot.. a black man now runs the USA.. this is not just about the middle east but also about hope to the world at large that merit can exist in democratic regimes and that they are not just finely tailored covers for oligarchic systems.. (NZ just appointed a jew as PM – i see it the same way).. down with the boy’s club and up with the fair go club.. btw not all US olim live up on the hills.. there are many who are here for very different reasons who dont share the classic view of the kipa sruga prototype..

i think none of us can profess to know how things will pan out.. some patience and prudence would do all of us some good.. however sometimes it does pay to step back and appreciate global events even if they dont strictly pertain to our personal egocentric ethnofocussed reality..

שבוע טוב לכולם בינתיים

Nov 9, 2008 - 12:54 am 16. Marc Malone:

lirun – Amazing. Obama’s election gives hope to the world at large that merit can exist in democratic societies? Are you nuts? Obama’s the least qualified candidate in history! Merit, my posterior! I see nothing good coming from having an Affirmative Action President.

Your problem is that you don’t see “the world strictly as what’s good for the Jews”. Useful Idiot. Israel is surrounded by some 400,000,000 psycopaths intent on her destruction and the death of ALL her citizens. They want to kill you all, useful idiot! The millions of useful idiots like you is why Israel is in danger.

Don’t take my word for it. Just watch the sick cartoons these psychos broadcast to the palestinian children. See how they cheer when there is news of another horrific bombing. See how the “martyrs” are lionized. Read the Palestinian constitution that calls for the extermination of Israel. Quit sympathizing with these monsters! They have no valid point of view. They are about death.

Nov 9, 2008 - 10:50 am 17. lirun:

wow marc alone!! you’re one angry guy..

i think you’re a tad self absorbed if you think the whole 400,000,000 have nothing better to do than plot your death.. like they dont have issues of their own.. besides marc alone..

or maybe you were traumatised by that book.. whats it called again? where the wild things grow?

im in fact very focussed on whats good for the jews.. i do a lot of community work that affects the lives of people here in israel and abroad.. and jewish vitality is very central to my life..

nevertheless.. notwithstanding your temper tantrum dillussions and use of foul language we are not in fact alone.. there is a world that exists outside “us”.. as much as you might try to build a psychological fortress that gets you through the day – we do in fact belong to a larger community of nations and dont need to be in panic mode night and day..

i dont know how many you have met from egypt syria lebanon palestine jordan etc but i have friends there.. just people.. they are not monsters.. they are people just like you and those who made you (maybe even a bit better and maybe not).. right now none of them are strategising your demise marc.. not a single one.. they are working and planning their winter vacations and paying off mortgages and considering MBAs and excited about their new iphones and here and there helping out where they can..

take a breath of fresh air.. it might require opening a window.. dont worry.. its likely not to be too risque..

Nov 10, 2008 - 1:08 am 18. Morgo:

My Jews in America look out for everyone but themselves, desperation for acceptance and assimilation.

Nov 10, 2008 - 6:18 am 19. Maurice:

Let’s all hope Mr. Obama is who he says he is and not connected to any Arab or Muslim interests. Politiicans will say anything to get themselves elected, and this is especially true for those aspiring for America’s highest political office. Believe it or not, it may turn out that the most honest candidate was Alsakan Governor Sarah Palin. She didn’t pull out many stops in regards to what she believes in, and this may be true to how she feels about Israel too as many fundalmentalist Christians are very pro Israel.

Obama’s true self will eventually come out after he assumes office and has to live with the challenges of a severe economic crises unparalleled since the 1930’s, as well as his country fighting a war on two fronts-it’s not 2 wars as we are led to believe, even though the reasons for kicking out Saddam Hussein may have not been genuine. Then only at this time will we all know who and what this guy really is.

Nov 12, 2008 - 4:48 am 20. dan:

astute comments about the russian role in the middle east. as for obama, the danger he presents is that he will make the ancient mistake of believing arab governments act in good faith. they never act in good faith. as pointed out above, it was not carter who made camp david happen, it was sadat, for whom soviet imperialism had become palatable than us-israeli PR-for-$2 billion a year. this is not good faith; any idiot can see that soviet or russian imperialism will deprive the putative leader of a country of all power. sadat saved his own skin (but of course that didn’t really work out for him eh? “zawahiri” assassinated him in 1981…). they gave credit to carter and allowed him to take credit as mediator and facilitator because nothing is so effective diplomatically with US liberals than to flatter their self-image as doves and peaceful adjudicators of international confliccts. obama is absolutely ripe for his role as amiable celebrity dupe in the diplomatic deceit of many, many enemies, all of whose efforts are coordinated by russia (iran, venezuela, north korea, china, cuba, germany via energy influence – who is our enemy who russia is not behind?). russia must surely look at him as even more low-hanging a fruit than kennedy was. and with russia’s sponsorship of every international terrorist organization of strategic consequence, either directly or indirectly through states like iran, you can bet that “the international crisis” biden predicted will be from russia with love, but probably using the middle east as the whore with whom to simultaneously seduce and weaken the USA. of course this may all wait for putin to re-assume power under that nice revision to russian law that will allow presidents to serve for 6 years, rather than 4. but this is of course just more democratic potemkinism for the press to deliver to an only dimly interested global consumer, so who knows…

Nov 12, 2008 - 9:54 am 21. dan:

russia is of course also behind venezuela, who is behind FARC, which is attempting to destroy the Uribe government in Colombia, the destruction of which would pave the way for the strategic expansion of Leninism in South America….

Israel is in trouble. Where Bush’s diplomatic detachment from the execrable Arafat – a degenerate Soviet Bloc gangster – is regarded as a profound betrayal of the international trust, look out! Abu Mazen, whose PhD in Holocaust Denial comes from Patrice Lamumba Friendship University (i.e. Third World KGB “national liberation” training camp) – Abu Mazen has been cashiered for HAMAS, while being left in place to play the sympathetic “moderate” around whom respectible international opinion (and money, money, money) may rally while HAMAS gnashes its teeth and rolls around behind closed doors in Saudi, Russian, and Iranian petrodollars. And of course Hezbollah is now de jure and de facto in charge of Lebanon…

Please – is all this really not transparent? And everywhere the Left and its professional Wormtongues counsel convergence with the aggressor-enemy, whether Leninist or Islamist, *on the terms* of the aggressor. “Well, Israel will just have to give up *its* nukes,” etc.

Even in Israel this is the case, where the citizens can see into the hateful eyes of their would-be conquerors right through cracks in the concrete, yet the good and gentle vote for Livni while (lovingly?) savaging the political opposition instead of their actual enemies….

Hey, just like every Democrat voter I personally know. What the hell is wrong with you people?

This is why Obama and *his* people are dangerous. Every enemy is weaker than the USA and Anglosphere. This does not automatically convert you into a passive angelic victim of the “hegemon.” It just means that, since you are weaker, you must be that much better at deception. When you rely on deception, you try to get the enemy to believe in as false a picture as possible. Perhaps Saddam’s WMD were a ruse by Russia and its allies to lure the USA into Iraq? Everyone is wrong to some degree and no one can know everything, but Obama & Co. believe in a world that does not exist. That is very dangerous for us. Going to renew the fight against bin Laden? You idiot: if he were really sitting in a cave in Waziristan, it would take only several special forces teams to extract him in a few hours, or one B-2 payload to kill under the mountain. Clearly there is something more complicated going on. Perhaps… he is in Russia or Iran, in one place sitting behind a nuclear umbrella, in the other in an almost-nuclear power, shielded by world opinion?

Hm? Possible? Yes, I think. Likely.

Poor Israel. My heart is with you.

Nov 12, 2008 - 11:10 am 22. Ms. Know:

No one is concerned with the fact that the left-wing illuminati are being given so much support from the countries who are at war with us.

Nov 14, 2008 - 12:17 pm

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