Pajamas Media

192 Comments

1. Ozzie:

I agree with the author this time. “Give me 50 pushups and get back in line” seems appropriate. The lie about the ‘distration’ is more of a problem that the kick itself. I don’t intimately understand the process the officer has to go through though, so I can’t judge. Maybe all sides fill out the paperwork that way (like the ACLU brief wants a crucifiction on Golgotha). Military rating paperwork seems to flow through an otherworldy fact filter, and it’s deemed acceptable ; no outright lies, just stretching and twisting a bit.

May 18, 2009 - 2:04 am 2. David Thomson:

Thank goodness the officer is not a white man. We would never hear the end of it. That is probably the number one reason why the story does not have legs.

May 18, 2009 - 3:24 am 3. Byron Dickens:

I really find it hard to have any sympathy for a worthless slug like Rodriguez who gets kicked in the head.

May 18, 2009 - 4:00 am 4. fear Obama:

I am thankful we still have young police officers that are willing to defend person and property.

Young enough to carry full body armor,
weapon and chase down a gang member dressed for a track meet.

I would have shot him when he jumped out of the stolen car and given him the finger salute.

I’m getting too old for track meets.

May 18, 2009 - 4:26 am 5. Vaughn:

What happens? An angel smiles…..so do I.

May 18, 2009 - 4:48 am 6. Macko:

Distraction kick ?

works for me. The car thief could just as easily laid down with a weapon underneath him and hoped the officer would lower his guard.

A stretch perhaps but I wouldn’t want a policemans job.

May 18, 2009 - 5:01 am 7. burntjohn:

Thats not the PO’s job.
He should be fired and charges brought up against him.

May 18, 2009 - 6:06 am 8. Jmsbrtms:

The ACLU rails against police use of excessive force. But I have never heard of them giving training in how to limit or control adrenaline. Nor have I seen policy papers on how to pick police candidates based on adrenaline.

I would ask the question that if adrenaline is as powerful as a drug, who is responsible for it’s application? Will a subject reap what they sow with the powerful effects of adrenaline? Or is the officer totally responsible for the environment the subject creates?

May 18, 2009 - 6:17 am 9. ken magalnik:

This is pretty mild stuff, but it sounds to me like someone is doing a lousy job at training. Society can ill afford officers who are “like a bullet that had already been fired”. We expect them to make the right decisions under pressure. Since this is not happening, the training is lacking.

May 18, 2009 - 6:38 am 10. Meryl:

“We expect them to make the right decisions under pressure. Since this is not happening, the training is lacking.” #9

“Since this is not happening”….wow! Based on one 5-10 second frame, over a period of how many thousands of hours of service from this one police office, let’s hurry and get the accusations about poor training on record.

It occurs to me that we have quite completely lost the same clearsighted reasoning when it comes to our nation’s leadership.

How soon can we file charges against the fraud POTUS, since the training is apparently lacking in his case as well?

BTW, I would imagine the gangster’s defense lawyer is salivating at this very moment as he anticipates the free PR he’s going to get from defending this piece of scum.

May 18, 2009 - 7:06 am 11. Barry 0351:

Kick the mofo again Bubba he needs some street justice for endangering everyones lives in his run.

May 18, 2009 - 7:08 am 12. rocketeer:

I think the officer should receive a commendation for not plugging this punk in the back of the head with a couple of rounds, as I’m sure he was tempted to do. We as a society need to start giving our law enforcement officials some help and cover here. This officer didn’t beat this man for now reason. He delivered one blow before handcuffing, which to me does not seem like an officer out of control, but an officer with a plan. I don’t know what their training tells them to do. I do know that I thank God that there are men (and women) out there that are willing to put their lives on the line to keep our society civil. To this officer, I would say “Thank you for your service.”

May 18, 2009 - 7:09 am 13. Tim:

Yeah give the cops some cover. Just remember that when it’s your kid out for a joy-ride with friends that gets two in the skull you jack-ass. Cops are not the jury, judge or executioner. They are to apprehend criminals then turn them over to people with clear head to determin guilt and punishment. Since you are advocating “Wild-West” justice, what happens when ‘the people” start to take justice on these ass-hat cops that break the law. If Rodney King was my brother, none of those cops or their families would be alive today.

May 18, 2009 - 7:27 am 14. submandave:

“We expect them to make the right decisions under pressure. Since this is not happening, the training is lacking.”

Now, I admit I’m making an assumption here, but that this line of black-and-white argument seems to most often in such circumstances come from those who pride themselves on their political embrace of “nuance” is ripe with irony.

This sort of thought is born of the “zero tollerance” mentality that seem to be predicated upon the falicy that we can control everything. The hyper-legalization of all aspects of life leads to a yes-no verdict on everything. Yes, the officer seems to have exhibited poor judgement in this situation, but when the default punishment for poor judgement of any sort is the forfeiture of job, career and pension one shouldn’t be surprised when less judgement of any sort is applied.

May 18, 2009 - 7:35 am 15. anton:

9. ken magalnik:

What line of work do you have? Have you ever made a mistake? Ever? Does your profession demand that you take life-threatening risks on a moment to moment basis?

Try, for just a second, to place yourself in the officer’s position. Three guys in a stolen car, two gangbangers already seen and in custody, you are chasing the third guy, all by yourself into an area where he likely has friends. Gang activity counts for 80% of the murders in LA, these guys have already demonstrated a complete lack of respect for others lives, do you think for a second that the criminal would have hesitated to kill the cop if the chance was there?

The kick looked terrible, but did the criminal suffer any lasting injury? If the officer had just jumped upon the suspect and fought him into custody that the suspect would have sustained any less injury.

The real fact is that, at the dirty, sweaty street level, using force is an ugly business. No amount of pretty language can make it otherwise.

May 18, 2009 - 7:48 am 16. bobbcat:

13. Tim: If Rodney King was my brother, none of those cops or their families would be alive today.

Their families too? Angry much?

May 18, 2009 - 7:49 am 17. anton:

13. Tim:

Does your kid go out “joy-riding” with convicted criminals in a stolen car? Running from police and risking the lives of innocent people?

My kids don’t.

May 18, 2009 - 7:50 am 18. jensad:

Being retired from law enforcement I did a similar kick to a bad guy I was going to arrest. I kicked his head to see if he would react. And he was in the same position as the dirt bag this officer had on the ground.

I always assumed there was a weapon when an arreste was laying face down on the ground. And on car stops a good officer, could find a concealed gun/knife/swords/fill in here in the vehicle of the person I stopped. And this was in the 60s -80s.

The real point to me is that this officer was able to go home to his family. And if that officer was a dad, he and wife and children can celebrate life and family.

jensad

P.S. Several of my fellow officers are dead due to what they DID NOT do.

May 18, 2009 - 7:54 am 19. Little Banana:

Tim – try and remember that if it’s your kid, or your wife, or your mother, etc who gets killed by a scumbag piece of shit joyrider.

Try not to be an idiot all your life.

May 18, 2009 - 8:00 am 20. sheesh:

Kicking a man in the head who is laying spread eagle face down on the ground . . . that seems fine to the good folks here at PJM. In fact, “kick the mofo again” or maybe “put a couple slugs in the back of his head” because he’s a “worthless slug.”

Here’s a thought. Let’s say the perp got away. Maybe we should put out photos of the guy on TV and ask good solid American citizens to hunt him down – dead or alive – for the sake of our safety and the good of the country. I know I’d feel much safer knowing there were bands of armed vigilantes out there roaming the streets – people like Joe Horn. I know that if my kid got caught shoplifting and took off running through the parking lot at Target, my deepest hope would be for Joe to shoot him in the back.

Long live frontier justice . . . and pray to god we remain protected by “a few bad apples.”

May 18, 2009 - 8:04 am 21. Delia:

2. David Thomson:

“Thank goodness the officer is not a white man. We would never hear the end of it. That is probably the number one reason why the story does not have legs.”
~

The dark cop did look either Hispanic or Black [with that distance shot I couldn't tell for certain].

‘Gang members’ on a supposed ‘joy ride’? I don’t think so.

May 18, 2009 - 8:29 am 22. Col Attilla:

Kudos to the officer!! He should have kicked that dirtbag sensless! Liberals are wimps–they want to protect the guilty and blame the police!Videotaped chases give the public a pretty good idea what the police are up against on a daily basis. The officer should get a medal NOT a reprimand!

May 18, 2009 - 8:31 am 23. george:

Much ado about nothing.

May 18, 2009 - 8:31 am 24. David S:

When a police officer kicks a gang member? No, I’m afraid that’s not really a very good description.

A police officer assaulted a citizen, despite that citizen apparently being completely submissive and non-threatening.

If you think that this is not a case of police brutality, or excessive use of force, you have a lot of explaining to do. It will go through the disciplinary and legal process, and probably a slap on the wrist is all that will come of it.

Some of the other comments here are simply disgusting. There is no circumstance in which an officer should assault or shoot a non-resisting suspect who has surrendered. There have been repeated cases of death in custody stemming from similar assaults, and such actions inevitably reduce the prestige and respect accorded to officers of the law.

If my expectation was that I would be assaulted for surrendering to the officer, I would certainly be more likely to defend myself with deadly force – and justifiably so. An officer of the law that cannot obey the law is no better than any other criminal.

Peace.

DS

May 18, 2009 - 8:41 am 25. anton:

20. sheesh:

Let’s say this guy stole your car, or ran over your kid while running from the cops. What would your response be? How would you want him treated?

Oh, wait a minute, you live in your parents basement, don’t have a car or kids……..

Come out of the cocoon and into the real world. The only reason that the bad guys are kept at bay at all is that there are cops standing in the way.

If one of them makes a mistake over the course of twenty or thirty years of service I find it understandable. I am not saying he should be off scot-free if he has broken the rules, I’m not ready to judge him with a five-second video clip.

If you think (any of you do-nothing libtrolls) that you would make a better police officer, get off your ass and put yourself through the local police academy and go get a job as one. Inspire others by your example. Otherwise you are just engaging in oral flatulance.

May 18, 2009 - 8:44 am 26. Doug:

Having been the victem of a public overreaction that eventually cost me my job on the LAPD, I wish all police administrators took the stand of Chief Armstrong and withheld judgment until all the facts were in. We don’t know where the “distraction” statement came from – likely a union attorney speaking too quickly and with too little knowledge. To those of you that want the officer immediately drawn and quartered – you haven’t a clue what goes on in the world. Quite like the ACLU, an organization that offers a knee-jerk reaction to every police action, you grow protected in your ivory tower, quite satisfied to let others do the work you would not risk yourself, but you will immediately make critical statements when the work is not done to your standards.

You want to crucify cops? First walk a mile in their boots and you’ll see the world as it really is.

May 18, 2009 - 8:44 am 27. Tony Castellano:

Well when some shitbag is is running from the police and has committed a crime and does not desire to comply. Sometimes the level of force needed to stop the resisting needs to be elevated.. Oh well…… KUDOS to the cop.

May 18, 2009 - 8:44 am 28. ken magalnik:

10,14,15:

At no point did I call for the officers job. Assuming procedures were broken, the officer deserves some punishment, but not anything too dire. (If procedure was not broken, then officer deserves no punishment, but procedure should get a closer look).

Is there any question that the officer lost his judgment in the heat of the moment? Isn’t the whole point of his training is to prevent precisely that? Considering he knew full well that he was not the only officer at the scene, wouldn’t holding the suspect at gun point until other arrived would have been the smarter thing to do?
Is it really unreasonable to expect officers to act professionally while on the job? This is not a call for the officers head, but when something happens to highlight a weakness in training, I expect training to be improved.
If an accident in say, the aviation world, results from a pilots mistake, that can be traced to poor training, we would expect training to be improved. Why is this any different?
I would think, that the defendants lawyer will be able to use this footage to help Mr. Rodriguez. So, as a result of this officers actions, an assumed criminal would at the very least get a lesser punishment. Thus the officers mistake directly lead to a result that is the exact opposite of his job duties, and I assume his intention. Shouldn’t we, as society, take steps to make sure such a mistake does not happen again?

14: I am no supporter of zero tolerance, never have been
15: I’m an engineer. I expect to be held liable for my mistakes by my employer. If my mistake results in a loss of life, I will be held liable to the state.

May 18, 2009 - 8:48 am 29. nk:

Like I said at Patterico’s, the “to the head” troubles me. If it had been “to the butt”, I would be applauding the officer.

May 18, 2009 - 8:48 am 30. Pete:

Good to see that “principled” conservatives are once again barely containing their bloodlust. The cop should not have kicked a suspect in the head, especially since the suspect was laying on his stomach with his arms in plain sight. Sorry, this is clearly a training issue, and there should be a reprimand

I suppose that you guys cheered when the Oakland transit officer murdered the suspect in a subway fight in front of a few hundred witnesses.

May 18, 2009 - 8:53 am 31. Pete:

27. I don’t think giving the police free reign to use MORE force is at all a real solution. Such a policy would all but guarantee that some trigger happy moron will end up gunning down an innocent person.

May 18, 2009 - 8:57 am 32. David Thomson:

“it’s your kid out for a joy-ride with friends that gets two in the skull you jack-ass.”

Joy riding risks the safety of innocent citizens. I could care less if my own kids received a similar response for their disgusting behavior.

“A police officer assaulted a citizen”

The police officer did not hit a regular citizen. This particular individual was caught red handed risking the lives of others.

May 18, 2009 - 9:00 am 33. John:

Since the multicultural racists would have made this into a major issue should the officer had been white, I’m glad he was hispanic. Does that make me a racist too? Think about it…if race is the issue then we are all racists. Having opened a huge crack in that dike, how about another.
A “distraction” kick by non-Police officer is regarded as assault with a deadly weapon. Since when did it become trendy to use distraction kicks. How about a taser shot or a baton to the leg to distract the perp from surrendering. Maybe this kid deserved the kick but it was not the Police Officer’s right to punish him. Oh that’s right…it was not punishment, it was a distraction. If that had been my kid..that Police Officer would have to deal with me in a dark alley. My kid is not a gang member though!
Maybe the kid’s parents should be jailed?
If the Police were allowed to do their job and were not subject to racist viewpoints and unrealistic constraints, I bet the gang member would either never have joined a gang or would still be in jail for the previous crimes.

May 18, 2009 - 9:07 am 34. Pete:

32. Oh, so when an individual is “caught red handed risking the lives of others”, they immediately lose the designation of “regular citizen” on the spot? It’s up to the COURTS to ultimately decide guilt or innocence and ajudicate punishment. You can’t have police officers as judge, jury, and executioner. WAY too much room for abuse and mistakes with that kind of mentality.

I agree with the poster who pointed out that because the officer couldn’t show some restraint before kicking the suspect in the head, that the charges might end up getting reduced.

When did conservatism come to become so authoritarian?

May 18, 2009 - 9:11 am 35. Pete:

33. No one said jack about this being a “race issue”. Judging by your little rant, you seem to be engaging in more projection than a movie theater.

May 18, 2009 - 9:13 am 36. anton:

28. ken magalnik:

“I’m an engineer. I expect to be held liable for my mistakes by my employer. If my mistake results in a loss of life, I will be held liable to the state”

I don’t mean to be a prick about this but getting fired or sued is not quite the same as getting stabbed in the guts by a gang-banger.

In police work the “design margin” is as close to zero as you can get. Errors lead to dead cops far more often than they lead to dead citizens, largely because the cops are willing to run the risk to themselves day after day.

View the video again, look at the “encoutner distance” that the officer has. At a dead run he has to choose a course of action in a tiny fraction of a second (back off & risk losing the suspect, or close and take control of the criminal) and carry through with it. He doubtless has seen the dozens opf videos from the prisons that record prisoners practicing such things as lying on a gun (or knife) until an officer approaches, or using the handcuffing method as a tactic to escape or overpower the officer. He knows that this criminal has shown a complete disregard for others lives, is a 99%likelihood gangmember and more than likely has been to prison (where aquired those prison tats so obvious in the mug shot). He has no idea how far or close his back-up is. As far as “holding the suspect at gunpoint” what does that achieve? Are you going to shoot him if he stands up and starts to run again? How about if he jumps up and charges you, he has empty hands but could take your gun? He could have a gun under him and, as you approach, he can roll off of it and shoot you as you are holstering your side-arm.

Give it a shot, you decide under similar circumstances, remember this though; the wager is your life.

May 18, 2009 - 9:25 am 37. ArrghNot:

Give the cop a week or two off without pay. As a former officer, this is what would have happened to me if I did the same. Let the dirtbag try to get $$ in civil suit and move on. In the cops defense, it is hard not to want to knock some sense into a dirtbag. It takes a lot of restraint.

May 18, 2009 - 9:25 am 38. Whitey:

He’s an officer of the law, not an officer above the law. Kicking a perp in the head after he completely submits by laying face down, spread eagle is assault.

May 18, 2009 - 9:25 am 39. John:

Pete….You need to calm down there turbo….you are the one who is ranting.
Look at post #2 and referenced by post #21. This is the “race issue” you jughead.
If you don’t like other people’s viewpoint, then don’t read them. You sound like such a baby!

May 18, 2009 - 9:28 am 40. Tim:

To all of you that say your kids don’t do that. That’s what the mother or father of every killer in philly says, “not my boy”, “he was trying to get his life together”, etc. Fact: you don’t know what your kid is doing when you are not around. Did your parents know what you were doing and who your friends were? I doubt it. If the ass-hat cop was worried about his safety he should have held the suspect covered and waited for backup. Not run in and kick a prone person in the head. No i am not angry much, i don’t get angry i get even. If the blue boys can’t operate according to the law then they are not entitled to it’s protection.

May 18, 2009 - 9:29 am 41. robotech master:

Its pretty clear cut the guy should be fired for it.

This whiny “cops have it so hard” BS is just crap. You take a job you understand the risks the come with it. If they are to cowardly to do their freaking job then they need to quit period…

The fact that he was a 15 year vet also clearly shows that this probably wasn’t the first time that he attacked someone out of anger and/or spite. This is a text book case of a corrupt cops attacking someone. Its stuff like this that leads to shootings like the one in Oakland….

May 18, 2009 - 9:29 am 42. Pete:

36. For starters, the officer should assume that because he was in a high speed chase, he was being filmed. IF the suspect were to attack him and deadly force was necessary, then he’d no doubt have some evidence to back him up.

Tacitly encouraging officers to kick suspects when they are lying down on the ground based on the hypothetical “he’s going to get up and shoot me” is not the solution. Mistakes would get made and innocent people would end up getting hurt if this mentality was allowed to flourish unchecked.

37. With all due respect, in order to have a system of laws that includes the judicial branch, it is imperitave that police officers show some restraint when performing their duties. It’s not up to a cop to “knock sense” into anyone.

May 18, 2009 - 9:35 am 43. NahnCee:

“Thats not the PO’s job. He should be fired …”

That’s not the PO’s job. He should HAVE fired …

There, I fixed it for you (including the missing apostrophe).

May 18, 2009 - 9:35 am 44. anton:

33. John:

“If that had been my kid..that Police Officer would have to deal with me in a dark alley. My kid is not a gang member though!”

Two problems with that, one philisophical the other physical.

First, you are now the judge and the jury? You have now gone much further over the line than the officer by engaging in a pre-planned assault as opposed to an impulsive act. Bad form, bad from. Practice first, then preach.

Second, unless you are a real bad-ass you would probably lose that fight. Street cops deal with physically violent agressive behavior on a day-to-day basis, “not so much” with keyboard punching blog readers.

May 18, 2009 - 9:37 am 45. Pete:

39. Whatever, dude. It is fascinating to see that some people on the right worry about anti-racism more than actual racism.

Cops of any ethnicity should be trained to show a little restraint when they arrest people specifically so they don’t lose their cool and get caught on videotape doing something they ought not to be. It’s not that big a leap from kicking a prone suspect in the head to simply shooting him in the head (like the cop who murdered the guy on the Oakland subway).

May 18, 2009 - 9:39 am 46. Pete:

43. Are you suggesting that the police officer in this case should have summarily executed the suspect on the side of the road in broad daylight? It’s funny to see how you lovers of the Constitution apparently don’t seem to acknowledge the existence of the court system.

May 18, 2009 - 9:40 am 47. Panday:

Tim, (comment #13)

“Yeah give the cops some cover. Just remember that when it’s your kid out for a joy-ride with friends that gets two in the skull you jack-ass.”

I daresay that none of my children will be out joyriding in a stolen car. Too bad you can’t say the same, otherwise you wouldn’t be so worried about it.

May 18, 2009 - 9:45 am 48. asdf:

More concern for the perp than those HE put in danger and the cop doing the hard job. Typical. Just like Rodney king, why was he not broght up on charges of violating the rights of everyone on the road he was going the wrong way on? As long as orgs like ACLU are arround, we are all in danger.

May 18, 2009 - 9:45 am 49. anton:

41. robotech master:

“If they are to cowardly to do their freaking job then they need to quit period… ”

When was the last time you put your life on the line for somebody you didn’t even know?

38. Whitey

Quite possibly, but let’s not jump to conclusions on a five second video.

34. Pete:

Yes they do lose their status as “regular citizen”, they become a “fleeing felon” and are subject to the laws regarding such. I’m not familiar with CA’s laws but many states will allow the shooting of such under certain circumstances.

BTW re: “When did conservatism come to become so authoritarian?” The worst authoritarians I can think of were all Lefty (Stalin, Mao etc).

May 18, 2009 - 9:48 am 50. Panday:

Both the commenter, Tim, and the gang member the officer kicked could have learned a lot by watching this public service announcement:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

May 18, 2009 - 9:49 am 51. robotech master:

To 49. anton

I’m a soldier I deploy to war zones…. I have to put up with real killer with real guns not tiny 9mm BB guns. I don’t have a hospital 15 min away from me to patch me up with 18 freaking doctors taking care of me…

When I was last time you put your life on the line…? and from a real threat…

How many suicide bombers have attacked you?
How many RPGs have been fired at you?
How many times have you have you walked down a street and see a garbage can that wasn’t there the day before as to turn a corner and think to yourself “Is it a bomb am I going to die?”
How many times have you had full auto weapons firing at you?
How many times have you walked into some grass searching for land mines wonder if you going to be stepping on one?

To man police in the US believe their motto is to “serve and protect THEMSELVES”…. cowards… if your not man enough to do the job that you know may require that you die then F***ING QUIT. You don’t change the requirements of the job best some whiny *****es are afraid of dieing… the job is the job and you do it or you don’t….

May 18, 2009 - 9:59 am 52. Delia:

You don’t run from the police unless you’ve done something wrong. It’s idiotic to try to outrun people who are trained to capture you and have the weaponry and badges to do so.

The kick to the head was clearly out of line though. The other officer came up soon after and used his baton and gave him a few kidney hits. *OUCH*

That being said, these high speed chases are a bad idea all around. I wish there were ways other than that to capture a criminal without risking the lives of innocent bystanders/drivers. -And, as others have said, adrenaline is powerful and coupled with endorphins pumping through your body you’re just not the same person. How on earth can you train a person to react realistically to certain stressors? Real life situations are pretty hard to duplicate.

*sigh*

As far as the ‘race’ card is concerned. Some of you know damned well that if that had been a white cop, this would have been a HUGE deal and plastered all over the news (or perhaps even worthy of inciting a riot). Please, don’t pretend this wouldn’t have been turned into a race baiting issue if the Officer had been white. Al Sharpton would have been all over this like white on rice [pardon the pun].

May 18, 2009 - 10:00 am 53. Delia:

50. Panday,

LMAO! I usually can’t stand Chris Rock but that was freakin’ hilarious!

May 18, 2009 - 10:03 am 54. Pete:

49. Gee, if the “worst authoritarians” were “lefty”, then why did the right-wing Bush administration authorize interrogation techniques that were also systemically used in China and Russia? Remember, we aren’t talking about dictators that died in 1976 and 1953 respectively, we’re talking about just a few years ago.

Cowards have to resort to using physical violence as a first resort, and frankly, there aren’t bigger cowards in the world than American Conservatives.

May 18, 2009 - 10:05 am 55. Pete:

52. Well, the police officer who murdered the black passenger on the Oakland subway WAS white, and there wasn’t as much as a brick thrown through a window in anger by anyone as a result. Why, you ask? Because the Oakland PD did the right thing and immediately charged that clown with first degree murder.

You see, when police departments actually hold their officers accountable, then you don’t have civic discord if someone crosses the line.

May 18, 2009 - 10:09 am 56. seven:

Let’s apply Ann coulters template for guilty. It may be race trumps the significance of the deed.

May 18, 2009 - 10:10 am 57. anton:

50. Panday:

Particulary the first bit after, “Let’s review….”

51. robotech master:

I’ve got 25 years in law enforcement in Metro Detroit with far more restrictive ROE than you have, far less protection, backup a LOT farther away, a puny 9mm for a weapon, no UAVs, no airstrikes, no armored patrol vehicles and gangers trying to follow me home to f%$k with my wife and kids. BTW, gangers like AK-47s just like AQ. How about if every Iraqi that ends up as “collateral danmage” gets to sue you? It would suck, wouldn’t it?

If you don’t like being in the armed forces come home and become a cop, set an example.

May 18, 2009 - 10:11 am 58. Sean1:

To 51 robotech master:

I’ve done both, Soldier and LEO. Do not try to compare the two as they are entirely different. I’ve yet to go to a call where I know what will happen. Every call is an “unknown” until I arrive whereas in combat I know I’m entering a battlefield. Where I work it’s one riot, one Deputy and back-up is miles away. No air cover, artillery, UAV coverage, FAO’s, intelligence biefing prior to deployment, and certainly no suppressive firepower in the event of ambush. I respect your service but try and walk a mile in my shoes before you disparage an entire cadre of sowrn professionals.

May 18, 2009 - 10:19 am 59. anton:

54. Pete:

Three known bad guys vs millions dead innocents, there lies the hazard of moral relativism.

Are those rock-thowers st the anti-WTO protests Consevatives?
How about those sweethearts that organized the “Killing Fields” in Cambodia? Perhaps the Tamil Tigers were Republicans? Maybe AQ is an off-shoot from the Republican party.

55. Pete:

You seem to forget that the worst disturbances re: the Rodney King arrest were after the police officers were charged and tried. The media and criminal class did not like the outcome of the judicial proceeding.

May 18, 2009 - 10:21 am 60. beretta:

Too bad he didn’t kick that gangbanger all the way back to Mexico.

May 18, 2009 - 10:21 am 61. John:

44. You seem to have read something into my statement that wasn’t said.
Dealing with me in a dark alley was a euphemism to opposing me in a court of law where I would prevail 100%…not a physical assault. Sorry for the confusion and my miscommunication. To actually stalk and assault a Police Officer is insane. Besides hurting someone by financially ruining them is much better and easier for a keyboard punching blog reader…LOL

45. So you make a stupid insult with a judgement when you are found to be completely wrong. You don’t very good argumentative skills.

May 18, 2009 - 10:22 am 62. Fantom:

Kicking such a worm is fine by me. Said scumbag should have already been danglin’ at the end of a rope.

It would be a much better world if we flushed the toilet.

May 18, 2009 - 10:26 am 63. John:

52. You are spot on…..
I ran from a cop once…..stomp to the kidney emptied my bladder and although the dislocation of the shoulder was totally unessary it was effective in giving me a lesson that I never forgot plus a lifetime of pain in that shoulder.

May 18, 2009 - 10:28 am 64. Fantom:

“51. robotech master:
To 49. anton

I’m a soldier I deploy to war zones….…”

Why do I not believe you? Maybe because I have never heard a real soldier sound like such a whiny as liberal as you.

Putz.

May 18, 2009 - 10:32 am 65. John:

64.
I was shocked to find some Iraq vets 100% behind Obama…
Confusing!

May 18, 2009 - 10:41 am 66. bobbcat:

Pete: Good to see that “principled” conservatives are once again barely containing their bloodlust.

…there aren’t bigger cowards in the world than American Conservatives.

Resorting to such blanket statements doesn’t do much to instill confidence in your credibility.

May 18, 2009 - 10:44 am 67. shaui-jan:

pete.the techniques they use on politcal dissidents in russia and china are not the same as they use on suspected terrorists/agitaters/people they have no plans on releasing.the comparison is laughable.
the nyt and others who parrot this lie are well aware of it…they’re relying on the gullibility of the reader to buy into it.and they do….hook,line and sinker.

May 18, 2009 - 10:45 am 68. anton:

61. John:

OK, sorry about the misunderstanding.
Where I come from “….a dark alley” usually involves just that, plus a bat or a knife.

Sadly, our courtrooms are not much better; remember that O.J. was aquitted and the only people in the world that thought he was innocent were a few jurors.

May 18, 2009 - 10:50 am 69. John:

Pete: You are digging a big hole…..
“Cowards have to resort to using physical violence as a first resort, and frankly, there aren’t bigger cowards in the world than American Conservatives.”

What about Al Qaeda?

May 18, 2009 - 10:52 am 70. Pete:

66. Fine. But conservatives by and large ARE cowards because they live in near-total fear of virtually the entire world.

May 18, 2009 - 10:53 am 71. Redbone:

Ok all you whiney ACLU liberal tree huggers who think the cop was out of line, which would you prefer:

a) Gang Member Thug gets two shots to the skull, killing him.
b) Gang Member Thug gets a kick in the head.

I’d prefer A, but that’s just me…

May 18, 2009 - 10:54 am 72. paul_unalaska:

-Robotech Master – “This is a text book case of a corrupt cops attacking someone. Its stuff like this that leads to shootings like the one in Oakland”.

You’re comparing a 15 year vet of the LAPD to a Security Cop with <2 years as a BART cop? In case you haven’t noticed, L.A. is a cesspool of crime. Here’s a running tally website of homicides in L.A. County alone (283 this year already! Apparently Mayor Villaraigosa isn’t doing such a hot job, though he’ll continue to get reelected. 3 cheers for diversity!)

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/crime/homicidemap/

I echo the sentiment of Sean1’s #58 comment. I too being a vet know the intelligence collected before taking action as compared to that of a police officer. Please, don’t compare or attempt similarities of the two.

I too thank you for your military service. Though more times than not military security forces folks are unable to get a gig in the PD due to lack of experience.

If it wasn’t for our Middle East dealings, military cops would be busy busting grunts, airman, seabees, etc., with DUI’s or partying too loud on base..

May 18, 2009 - 10:58 am 73. Pete:

59. Funny that you mention the “Killing Fields” in Cambodia. If you travel to Cambodia and go to one of their museums that commemorates the genocide you’ll see, well whadd’ya know, a WATERBOARD. Moral relativism is insisting that when two different states use the exact same method of interrogation on prisoners, that one is morally wrong while the other is morally right.

62. So, again, are you also advocating that the judicial branch is unnecessary and we should summarily execute people on the side of the road? By the way, do you really feel that the non-capital crime of speeding away from a cop warrants the death penalty? Do you feel that such a system of immediate execution for non-capital offenses could lead to, you know, abuse of said system?

May 18, 2009 - 10:58 am 74. robotech master:

To 57. anton

“I’ve got 25 years in law enforcement in Metro Detroit with far more restrictive ROE than you have,”

Your kidding right? ROE in iraq is 10x as restrictive as what cops in the US get.(depending on the city) We’d have ppl in court marshal if they did the some of stupid BS that corrupt cops do.

“no UAVs, no airstrikes, no armored patrol vehicles”…. which has to do with what? I can’t randomly call down an air strike or arty on most targets in the city. Plus once again do you know much of what goes on in iraq? Theirs is little to no arty or air strikes done anywhere. I’ve driven through Baghdad and a host of other iraqi cities in unarmored vehicles…

“gangers trying to follow me home to f%$k with my wife and kids.” and I’ve been chased back to bases by armed enemies whats your F***ing point? You think you should get sympathy? DO YOU HAVE ANY F***ING CLUE ABOUT THE REAL WORLD? Do you have any idea what most iraqi families go through?(or for that matter what most ppl go through in many parts of the world…at least in the US your family is allowed to own firearms they’re many countries where they wouldn’t be allowed to have that type of protection). O wait never mind its all about you… being the only one thats important after all.

“BTW, gangers like AK-47s just like AQ.” Yeah BS you need to lay off the propaganda… gang members don’t have large stock piles of full auto AK47s not to say the least of things like PKMs or any of a host of other light MGs. When was the last time a Detroit cop was killed by a land mine or IED?

“How about if every Iraqi that ends up as “collateral damage” gets to sue you? It would suck, wouldn’t it?” Guess what you should really check out this thing called the F***ing LAW because you have no clue what your talking about.

“If you don’t like being in the armed forces come home and become a cop, set an example.” No thanks being a pretty honest person I don’t feel like being shot in the back.

To 58. Sean1

What was your MOS…? Clearly you don’t seem to understand much of what infantry do in iraq… since they handle riots and pretty much everything police DO in the US. They are often well away from others and don’t have air, arty, UAV, FAO or intel briefs… I’d go out on missions with 6 ppl. We’d travel hours sometimes to places to do our jobs. We didn’t have air support and even if we called it could take hours for it to get to us.(including MEDAVAC) We had 6 ppl and what we could carry vs whatever we ran into…. you want to talk about not knowing what your days going to be…. keep dreaming when you add into your avg day going through corrupt cop check points, landmines, IEDs, gangs(with real weapons), terrorists, suicide bombers and a host of other wonderful things them come and talk to me.

When was the last time you setup a check point for seat belts or DUI in the street and had to worry about suicide bombers coming up to it?

I do find it funny you bring up intel briefs BECAUSE POLICE GET INTEL BRIEFS. How many “ambushes” do police get into? what 20 in the course of a year throughout the whole US? Plus last time I heard suppressive fire has nothing to due with being police or military…. frankly from what you write its questionable if you know anything about the military.

I’ve done everything a cop does and then some when I was in army…. but I did it under far worse conditions then police ever have to face. I know a good deal about law enforcement in the US…
1. I have a degree in criminal justice
2. I know many cops.

I also have had the wonderful pleasure of dealing with some of the most corrupt and worthless cops both inside and outside the US….

May 18, 2009 - 10:59 am 75. Pete:

72. How about option C, gang member is arrested, charged with a crime, and tried for said crime in a court of law to determine guilt or innocence.

Seriously, what is it about the rule of law that gets conservatives panties in a bunch? It’s ironic that the same people on this board complaining that the Rodney King rioters didn’t like the result of that trial(no, they shouldn’t have rioted, so don’t go there), seem to automatically assume that no court will give them the result THEY want in terms of street criminals picked up in high speed chases.

May 18, 2009 - 11:02 am 76. anton:

70. Pete:

How about a concise, non-perjorative expose of that position?

71. Redbone:

I can’t say I’m with you on that, I don’t care for street-level justice, particulary where it make take a life.

May 18, 2009 - 11:03 am 77. John:

70. Pete
That sure is a huge blanket statement. You got ANY facts to support your leftist theory?

May 18, 2009 - 11:05 am 78. Pete:

69. Well, AQ and modern conservatives aren’t that dissimilar. Both groups have shown a willingness to use violence to impose a system of government based on strictly religious rule. Both AQ and modern conservatism can’t fathom a world where their own personal beliefs aren’t the unquestioned law of the land. And much like AQ leadership, modern conservatives would rather have people other than themselves do the dying for that cause.

I think the worst of the conservative fire-breathers in a perverse way actualy ADMIRE AQ’s ability to completely control every breath and every movement of the population of the territories they control.

Two sides of the same coin.

May 18, 2009 - 11:05 am 79. anton:

… I hat typos….MAY take a life

May 18, 2009 - 11:12 am 80. RV:

Since neither was needed for the situation, I prefer neither.

And yes the cop was out-of-line.

May 18, 2009 - 11:13 am 81. Delia:

70. Pete:

“66. Fine. But conservatives by and large ARE cowards because they live in near-total fear of virtually the entire world.”
~

WTF? Considering ‘Conservatives’/Ex-Military’ are being targeted as ‘extremists’, I’d say it’s the panty waist Liberals who are afraid of Conservatives and not the other way around. -And, the ‘world’ is NOT the USA. I’m an AMERICAN first, homey.

May 18, 2009 - 11:14 am 82. anton:

78. Pete: Liberals brought you Ruby Ridge and Waco……

May 18, 2009 - 11:18 am 83. John:

78. Pete
You need to see a professional about your perception of reality.
Conservatives want to be left alone. They want less laws and less government oversight. They do not want to control others or force them to believe in their personal beliefs.
Just the opposite of what you just posted.

I ask again to post a factual account of a mainstream conservative group that uses violence.
Don’t include the KKK or Skinheads or any extremist groups as an example.

May 18, 2009 - 11:21 am 84. Pete:

So, you want a clarification?

Ok. Every attempt to chip away at our own personal freedoms and Constitutional Rights by conservatives has been motivated out of a paralyzing fear that dastardly “others” are going to come over and kill every one of us. Why, they were so afraid, that they resorted to wiretapping people’s phone calls without warrants several months BEFORE 9/11 even occurred. We were so afraid, that we cirumvented our own laws against torture in order to get prisoners of war to “confess” to alliances with countries that had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11. Conservatives were so filled with fear that they outed CIA operatives as a means of silencing one diplomatic critic who wrote a dissenting editorial in a newspaper. Conservatives were so filled with fear of dissent that they organized record burnings against a musician who exercised her free speech rights during a concert.

Domestically, fearful conservatives tell their sheep-like followers to arm themselves to the teeth because the police can’t possibly protect them (while simultaneously expressing the belief that police should summarily execute suspects in a crime).

American values aren’t worth the paper they’re printed on if we allow FEAR to cause us to throw them away at the drop of a hat.

Obviously the famous quote “those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither” has never cracked your thick skulls. Maybe fear takes away your ability to think…

May 18, 2009 - 11:22 am 85. Pete:

79. Awww, delia…your nationalism is admirable. Of course, you conservative types act as if the USA IS the entire world, and that non-Americans are merely our guests on this planet.

As for the DHS report canard, you do realize that the report ACTUALLY said that right-wing extremist groups might target disaffected soldiers for recruitment. Considering the multiple tours and complete lack of real mental health services for shellshocked soliders, it wouldn’t be that hard for a group to recruit someone for evil intentions (that guy who snapped and fragged five of his fellow soliders would have been ideal for such a group, sadly). I remain impressed at the show of solidarity extremist conservatives have shown with the Klan and Neo-Nazi groups that were actually cited in this report.

May 18, 2009 - 11:27 am 86. Steve Z:

I’m not a cop, so I don’t know what the first officer on the scene may have feared (a concealed weapon), but his kick to Rodriguez’ head was probably unnecessary. As the first officer to arrive, he probably didn’t want to take the chance of wrestling one-on-one with Rodriguez to try to handcuff him, but he probably could have avoided this by standing BEHIND the Rodriguez’ legs while pointing his gun, and shouting “Police! Don’t move or I’ll shoot!” until reinforcements arrived, since the officer probably knew they were on their way.

Still, given the circumstances (a high-speed chase, driving the wrong way, a hit-and-run, and resisting arrest), the officer’s punishment should be minimal. A training program and a desk job for a few months, then back on the job.

May 18, 2009 - 11:28 am 87. Pete:

83. John, if conservatives “want to be left alone” and want the government to “stay out of our lives”, then why are conservatives so morbidly obsessed with sexual activities between consenting adults? Remember, it was CONSERVATIVES who freaked out when anti-sodomy laws were declared unconstitutional. Conservatives are the ones who want to deny consenting adults the right to enter into the civic contract of marriage. Conservatives are the ones who want the public sphere to reflect only their religious beliefs.

May 18, 2009 - 11:29 am 88. Pete:

82. Waco was brought to you by David Koresh. He’s the one who ordered his people to kill ATF agents that were exercising a legal search warrant. He’s the one who burned his own followers alive.

As for Ruby Ridge, both parties were in the wrong. The willingness you guys have shown to make a white supremecist a hero is pretty laughable when compared to your frequent assertions that people on the left “side with terrorists”.

May 18, 2009 - 11:32 am 89. "gunner":

i’m not a cop, and i don’t play one on television, but i’ve had to carry a gun to earn my pay, with the daily possibility i might have to use it to save my life from some “do it yourself socialist” looking to “share the wealth”. like the police chief i’ll wait until all the evidence is in and thoroughly investigated before making any “judgements” which are, after all, the business of the courts and legal system. as for “bloodthirsty conservatives”, when i retired i was very happy to say i had never fired my gun in line of duty other than practise and required qualification/training days.

May 18, 2009 - 11:33 am 90. AThinkingPerson:

Pete is an idiot. When he believes that Conservatives are “afraid of the entire world” when in reality it’s the liberal nanny-staters that want/need to legislate everything from cradle to grave. That one statement from ole Pete says all I need to know about him and his level of competence. He doesn’t even know his own party stance. You need more kool-aid Pete.

May 18, 2009 - 11:33 am 91. Ozzie:

Wow stop feeding the .78 et all troll. The stuff he’s typing is about at the bottom end of the usual insane liberal sites. When you try and engage someone that propagandized and deranged you just get more incoherence, plus CAPS.

The US military is heavily conservative. And all conservatives are cowards. ok , check.
Conservatives want to impose relgion by violence. ok, check.
Conservative talk radio hosts admire AQ. ok, check.

Why are you fighting with someone clearly disabled, and struggling? Can you imagine this individual trying to buy milk in a grocery store? I don’t think it would be pretty.

May 18, 2009 - 11:34 am 92. Sean1:

To 78 robotech master

95B. Chewed some dirt in a differnt AO than you and won’t argue your experiences as I was not there. Safe to say I’ve seen things from your point of view. I guess I just have a differnt perspective. Know quite a bit about the military as well. I’ve been on that patrol with a short fire team and just what we rucked.

As ambushes go, I am only pointing out that you are typically prepared for such an event. By your own admission you are trained and alert to those changes in your surroundings that can get you killed. You suit up for specific threats and expect them to arise. An LEO can go days or weeks with minimal risk only to have the world come apart in an instant. As an example: An officer here recently was killed as he approached a car on an normal traffic stop not knowing that a gang member was at the wheel. Sounds like an ambush to me. Another two officers killed at a domestic call. They didn’t know that the assailant was armed with atn AK variant until the rounds came threw the door. Still not comparable but nonetheless just as lethal.

I am not minimizing your view but you still have not made any case for the cowardliness of the police. You have only demonstrated your experience with bad cops. I too have a degree in Criminal Justice and know many cops. Most are quite honorable.

As intelligence goes, you would be quite wrong to assume we are briefed at any regular interval. Most of my colleagues would agree that we typically are briefed AFTER an event. Wish it were otherwise.

Be well.

May 18, 2009 - 11:36 am 93. Bill Perron:

I live in El Monte and when I saw one of our cops kick that scum bucket I jumped up and cheered. The hoodlum is a member of the Flores latino gang, many are not citizens, they are all thieves, druggies, muggers, cowardly bullies, you name it, the scum of the earth. The A.C.L.U. never concerns its self righteous self with the rights of those who are victims of the vermin, only the rights of the vermin.

May 18, 2009 - 11:41 am 94. SeanLA:

growing up in New York during Giuliani and the end of the big street gangs, I never saw anybody beat up in public, the police took the suspect who later fell down the stairs or walked into a wall with no witness, an everyday accident. As a kid on the street, the one thing you did not want to do is get into a police car or let them get you in one, black, white, spanish, asian they are all police, and as a kid on the street you learned that fast.

The LA police have a lot to learn about dealing with suspects, this one, like King, should have been handled with kid gloves and later his equibrilium tested. The LAPD have to learn, once off camera no one cares `cept his homies who you want anyway.

This officer should be removed from duty and duly proscecuted. And other police have to learn whats on camera and whats not.

May 18, 2009 - 11:48 am 95. paul_unalaska:

Pete, your #73 comment, comparing the use of waterboarding by Khmer Rouge and U.S. Forces is warped..

The Khmer Rouge used waterboarding, and a myriad of other techniques to carry out his ‘Utopic society’ upon his forced, young and naive disciples.

Inflicting their will on bankers, politicians and other educated members of that said society. Soon afterward farmers, mothers and others were ‘disciplined’.

On a sidenote: The Khmer Rouge (God rest his sickened soul) was able to have so many victims due to the Democratic-led Congress pulling our tent stakes out of Saigon so quickly – leaving the civilians there as fodder.

The U.S. incorporated waterboarding on 3 terrorists and the information obtained, sadly, may be disclosed by our former VP rather than Teleprompter Guy. To actually OBTAIN valid information would be against the ‘no physical interrogation credo’ oh so lives up to.

BTW, Brussels, Belgium – the same location for the U.N. and other humanitarian aid groups, has 1 of the most impressive War Museums you’ll ever come upon.

Nice try on preaching morality, though.

May 18, 2009 - 11:49 am 96. NahnCee:

Pete, just out of idle curiosity, is your IQ higher than your age? I’m guessing you’re about 16 … right?

May 18, 2009 - 11:50 am 97. Pete:

93. Gee, if it was that much of a slam dunk that he was in the Flores gang and was guilty of A, B, C, then it wouldn’t be too hard to prove that in a court of law, no? Cops are merely supposed to enforce the law, but the courts ajudicate it.

May 18, 2009 - 11:50 am 98. Pete:

92, don’t forget the three dead cops in Pittsburgh murdered by the guy who believed everything Glen Beck told him…

May 18, 2009 - 11:52 am 99. Delia:

85. Pete:

“I remain impressed at the show of solidarity extremist conservatives have shown with the Klan and Neo-Nazi groups that were actually cited in this report.”
~
I remain shocked that the KKK Democrats actually speak about the KKK as their ‘enemy’ with a straight face!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1gXG1PY5bM

May 18, 2009 - 11:56 am 100. John:

84. Pete…You got it backwards…the leftards and Democrats are the ones that have been chipping away at out rights, not the conservatives and Republicans. Waterboarding is NOT torture or didn’t you get the memo.
I think you have drunk Obama’s koolaid….
There was just one CIA operative named Valerie Plame that was outed by Washington Post Journalist Robert Novak when he had a brain tumor. Not multiple as you have exaggerated. The Washington Post is definately not a conservative newspaper and endoursed Obama’s campaign for POTUS. Although Novak claims to be conservative, he is NOT!
Which group are you not identifying as having burned records and who was the musician…? Could this have anything to do with an evangelical group…not a conservative group eh?
LOL, you really just bloviate much about nothing and lump right, left and everything else together to NOT make a valid point!
BTW: I am a sheepdog and a libertarian who actually had the guts to defend my country by JOINING the military during Vietnam and who enjoys the status of a Federal Citizen, unlike you who is a coward that types troll statements in the darkened room you live in.
Get a grip Dude. You accuse conservatives of what you are..a cowardly leftist who has drank gallons of Obama’s koolaid. You are punch drunk and haven’t a clue.

May 18, 2009 - 11:58 am 101. paul_unalaska:

Pete, speaking of ‘Fear’ as a motivator.

Obama was quick to use fear tactics to pass the porkulus bill. You know, ‘The worst recession in 25 years’ or ‘A depression looming if this Bill..’ type of talk.

Apparently selective amnesia works wonders..

May 18, 2009 - 12:05 pm 102. John:

91 Ozzie…..Heeeelp meeee
I just love to tease trolls….I suppose I should stop.
This one is particularly stupid to the point of entertainment!

Yeah…Pete…that’s you

May 18, 2009 - 12:10 pm 103. robotech master:

To 92. Sean1

Which is all aside from the point… I don’t hate cops I know many good ones…however being a cop doesn’t excuse one from doing F***ed up **** and then not getting punished for it. Their was ZERO excuse for attacking the guy. Had he been a threat(which he wasn’t from the video) the cop would have drawn down and waited for backup…(which was 10 seconds behind him) instead being on a power trip he decided to play hero and get his rocks off by kicking the guy in the head and then jumping on him. If the guy was such a “huge” threat then he never would have jumped on him in the first place because he could have been hurt or killed…. this is a classic corrupt cop.

Most cops who fight someone dangerous like most person don’t go jumping on top of them… they could have a weapon or a host of other fun things to stick, poke, stab or shoot you with. The safe cop waits for backup and move in slowly and carefully… most of all when no one is in danger(which no was was) and the crime had “ended”(which it had).

This cop saw that this guy

1. had no weapons and
2. wasn’t going to fight anymore.

So he decided he was going to have some fun and get some payback. He very clearly from the video just ran right in without a care in the world and without even trying to check for weapons of any kind and just hopped right on top of him….he did this because he knew that that guy WASN’T a threat any more.

What type of idiot goes running up to someone that has a weapon… then stops right in front of them so he can grab their legs and pull them down. Goes even further and unbalances himself with a kick… if that guy was a threat he’d have come up off that ground and knocked that cop down and shot him with his own gun…

No matter how you cut it be it a stupid SOP,stupid training or just straight corruption the cop was retarded… and being 15 years on the force he should have gotten enough training and know enough not to do stupid stuff like that.

May 18, 2009 - 12:10 pm 104. fear Obama:

Several of these comments are defending gang members.

If you have ever had your car stolen or friend back stabbed/razor slashed or daughter raped you know what is thought of gang members.

I look forward to the day when we can shoot them on sight.

Or maybe have two a day bag limit.

May 18, 2009 - 12:34 pm 105. AlanABQ:

To anyone that cries like a little girl that “Mr.” Rodrigez wasn’t armed/didn’t have a weapon, please recall that this fine example of la raza had stolen a car & was weilding it like a weapon, not unlike the way another sack of donkey crap would use a gun & a hostage to avoid capture.

I’m not saying that the cop was totally in the right in kicking the idiot’s head, but he wasn’t all wrong either. I mean, what’s the big deal? Rodrigez wasn’t using it anyway… perhaps the officer unwittingly performed a service to dumbass by kick-starting the thought process so that maybe – though I doubt it – he’ll try to think things through.

But then again, why would he bother? The ACLU will do his thinking for him now. Now there’s a group that could really use a mental kick-start.

May 18, 2009 - 12:39 pm 106. John:

So back to the point….
Has the Officer been charged with anything?
Has the gang banger been arraigned yet?

I think since the perp wasn’t seriously injured, the Cop might get off a little easier. Maybe some sensitivity training and loss of a few days pay.
15 years of service has to be counted and maybe the Cop needed a vacation anyway.
This is why I’m not a Cop…I don’t have the patience needed for the job to deal with criminals.

May 18, 2009 - 12:42 pm 107. uburoisc:

The gangs do not fear the cops or the pathetic judicial system; chances are they are going to get away with an awful lot of crime before they get busted, and, when they do, their gang makes sure their prison stay is comfortable. They’ll be back out soon enough. The gangs, not the police, run whole parts of LA because the police are (wisely) not going to risk their lives for the people who live there; the neighborhood threw in with the gangs, and now they can live with them.

I payed a lot of money to live in a geographically protected part of LA with very little crime; my neighbors were mostly socialist pansies who usually took the side of the ACLU and the gang lawyers against the cops. But none of those people would go anywhere near the parts of LA controlled by the gangs because they knew that the police didn’t run that part of town.

What do I care if the police lose more and more control to vast stretches of LA? I don’t suffer as a result; poor minorities do, mainly. And as the contagion spreads to more middle-class neighborhoods filled with socialist pansies and “the cops are the problem” crowd, we’ll see how long they insist on their “hands off the perps” policies. From Santa Monica it’s pretty easy to tell police in south central what rules they have to play by. Frankly, I’m looking forward to the day when the gangs decide to start attacking sissy, white liberal LA; I have this image of a stupid hipster being bum rushed into the pavement by some roving F13 thugs, while pleading with them to talk about this–while a police cruiser just drives right past them.

May 18, 2009 - 12:52 pm 108. Pete:

100. So, if waterboarding is legal, then why have we prosecuted a police official in the US for doing the same thing to prisoners in his jail in 1983?

The laws on the books about what constituted torture were pretty clear. Those memos were a pretty feeble attempt to give legal cover after the fact (remember, they were waterboarding people BEFORE those memos were written).

So, you’re a Federal Citizen, unlike me? I’m curious as to why you assert that I’m not a “Federal Citizen”. I was born here, both my parents were born here. I have a legal SS#, pay my taxes, have never been arrested for anything, have a college degree, and have never taken Federal assistance, or even a college loan. Oh, that’s right, you clowns only think that people who walk lockstep with your demented political philosophy are “real Americans”.

May 18, 2009 - 12:52 pm 109. shaui-jan:

pete.we did not make randy weaver a hero,we mourned for his dead wife(shot in the head by an fbi sniper as she held her ten month old)and 14 year old son also killed.(they also shot randy weaver in the back as he moved his sons lifeless body to a shed). weaver was a total scumbag,but the authorities bungled this one beyond belief.
you are lumping whole groups of people who have little in common as ‘conservatives’.you also seem to have a chip on your shoulder as big as mt.rushmore.
i suggest you go back to the echo chamber you came from or get your facts straight.you are obviously way out of your league here.

May 18, 2009 - 12:55 pm 110. Jacks Dad:

First off, the Ofcr should be retrained, this could of easily turned into a take down, if the susp had been paying attention to the ofcr. As for doing something wrong, he did not know if the sups had any weapons, he was running for some reason which we will probably never know. Just like Rodney King.
The only mistake I think he made was not being able to control his adrenalin, but everone else, right!

May 18, 2009 - 12:59 pm 111. Delia:

104. John:

“So back to the point….
Has the Officer been charged with anything?
Has the gang banger been arraigned yet?”

Exactly. I’m curious as to how long the gang-banger’s ‘rap sheet’ is too. Our society pays one way or another for letting these criminal types loose or jailing them with other criminal elements only to learn more creepy sh*t. If abortions are a-okay, then why not just shooting these cretins and ridding them of our society? -At the very least, we know these perps are likely to be repeat offenders. So far, with all of the Liberal love and care, recidivism is still happens. A LOT.

May 18, 2009 - 1:05 pm 112. Fantom:

WE used to hang such as the scumbag who got kicked. It was a much better world then, one could leave a door unlocked. When we flush the toilet it will be a better world again.

I suspect that day is coming sooner or latter.

Personally.. Kudo’s to the Cop.

May 18, 2009 - 1:06 pm 113. Delia:

Correction: “recidivism is still happens.

Don’t ask me how I snuck an oddball ‘is’ in there

May 18, 2009 - 1:08 pm 114. JL:

I think it’s irresponsible to let the the perpetrator drive around for 40 minutes at 85 mph through an urban area, running red lights.

They should have used deadly force to stop him, before he had a chance to endanger the public.

May 18, 2009 - 1:12 pm 115. Usaq Madik:

I’m thinking Robotech is a REMF at best. Just a gut feeling…

Thank God for Officers who understand how to deal with gang-bangers. A big middle finger to all of the people who consider these scum equal citizens to those of us who don’t tattoo our gang names on our lips. You want to exist outside the society and be a criminal gang-banger? Fine, but you get what you’ve asked for. Take your moral equivalence and shove it.

May 18, 2009 - 1:15 pm 116. bobbcat:

Not that I am necessarily excusing this police officer who kicked this perp, but isn’t it disturbing to you all how the incidence of noncompliance towards the police has burgeoned to an extreme degree over the years (as our society continues its slide towards more decadence)? It’s utterly amazing to me how many ‘tards there are out there who would readily engage in a dangerous, high-speed chase with the police (in many instances over trivial things). Frankly, they deserve at the very least a little roughing up for all the blasted trouble they cause. JMO.

May 18, 2009 - 1:17 pm 117. uburoisc:

JL, you are entirely correct.

May 18, 2009 - 1:20 pm 118. CaptFlood:

Thus said Pete: “Domestically, fearful conservatives tell their sheep-like followers to arm themselves to the teeth because the police can’t possibly protect them (while simultaneously expressing the belief that police should summarily execute suspects in a crime).”

You’re f*ck*ng kidding me, right? So citizens who choose to exercise their Second Amendment rights and take responsibility for the safety and security of their self, their families, and their properties are ’sheep-like?’ And people like you who abdicate this responsibility to total strangers (strangers who most liberals despise, by the way,) under the aegis that “well, THEY’RE the ones who are trained for this type of thing” are — what — society’s bold, courageous ‘free-thinkers?’

Wow. Now I know how Alice must’ve felt when she fell down the rabbit hole…

May 18, 2009 - 1:24 pm 119. Blackwell:

The officer has yet to be heard from, so the noose-knotters need to sit by the pickel barrel for a bit. The kick looked gratuitous, but we don’t know what the offier saw from where he was standing, or what his worry was. We’ve all seen enough tapes (John DeLorean, Rodney King) to know that its best to wait a bit before jumping to conclusions. The King tape in particular was repeatedly shown without the first critical seconds.

No officer has the right to kick an unresisting suspect, even one as unsavory and deserving of a kick as this one. Those suggesting otherwise are way off base. Someone resisting arrest may be almost open season, but not someone passively on the ground. But Dunphy is right this time: wait for the cop’s side. And we may need to cut some slack to the officer approaching a felon and an evader on the ground where he could have been concealing a gun or a knife.

May 18, 2009 - 1:31 pm 120. Fantom:

“115. Usaq Madik:
I’m thinking Robotech is a REMF at best. Just a gut feeling…”

I have seen nothing to even indicate that.

While I am sure an occasional leftwingnut takes up arms… usually for some bennies then gets swept up in the tide of history. Most likely this one is a poser.. after all, it’s not like lying is something the left is loath to do.

May 18, 2009 - 1:37 pm 121. sefton:

Thank God he didn’t pour water on his face and make believe drown him.

May 18, 2009 - 1:45 pm 122. Leatherneck:

Are the gang bangers illegal aliens? Even if they are not, they are part of the problem. As an enemy of this nation, perhaps it would have been better, and less costly on tax payers, had they died. POS!

Give the Cop a medal, and put him back to work.

May 18, 2009 - 1:50 pm 123. Fantom:

“109. shaui-jan”

Not sure why Randy Weaver is a scumbag in your view. Maybe you have more info than me on the subject.

Now I will grant David Koresh was a nut. Maybe he burned down his own place.. maybe not. After all, all we have to go on is what the government said about it. That does not inspire me.

On both episodes we do know that the federal government instigated, and likely provoked(in the Weaver case), over unjust and unConstitutional firearms law, a confrontation that placed both Weaver and Koresh on a higher moral ground than the brown shirts who attacked them.

May 18, 2009 - 1:58 pm 124. robotech master:

To
115. Usaq Madik
120. Fantom

You 2 noobs best trend careful…. you have no idea what your talking about or it seems even the slightest bit of knowledge about honor or duty. I’m 11B1P I not only served in the active army but was recalled through the IRR to go back. I disdain cowardliness and incompetence…. at least one of which is on display here. You do your job and if your to much of a pussy to do it quit… I have zero patience for the whine of “OMG poor me”.

May 18, 2009 - 2:09 pm 125. Bigger Diggler:

Force, in order not to be “excessive,” and not in violation of the Fourth Amendment, must be “necessary.” This kick was totally unecessary.

This cop got his rocks off by gratuitously kicking an unarmed, complying, non-violent suspect. It is not the job of the police to administer such punishment or roadside “justice,” no matter how much self-pitying cops feel themselves aggrieved and put upon, and therefore think themselves entitled to vent their anger at their citizen bosses.

We citizens are your bosses, not your inmates and you are not our prison guards. Get used to it or get another job, a$$hole!

Cops are so hated nowadays because they have made a pact with the devil: They have wholeheartedly supported the disastrous war on drugs. They traded the motto of “protecting and serving” for the self-serving mammon of fame, money and prestige and promotion by way of felony drug convictions.

In this “war,” the US citizens are the “enemy.” (Except when they are asked to empty their wallets for more swollen prisons). You cannot hope to take sides like the police have and expect to get away unscathed.

May 18, 2009 - 2:10 pm 126. uburoisc:

In the end, the leftists and the conservatives are going to gravitate to one state or another. Some states will be filled with violent gangs preying on defenseless people with no retribution, and other states will hunt them down and kill them. Some states will return to 1950’s crime rates, others will resemble war zones with enclaves of high-security housing for the untra-rich on top of the hillsides. Depending on your view of human nature, crime, and violent predators, you will move to one place or another. Let the games begin.

May 18, 2009 - 2:18 pm 127. Macko:

When the car thief laid on the ground although it appeared sumissive he was dictating the terms and was in charge.

When the cop kicked him the car thief realized that he was no longer dictating the terms and that the cop was in charge.

When police officers stay in charge of these situations they stay alive.

Anyone who wants the cop suspended, fired or jailed needs to go sign up for their job. Report back to us occasionally to see how your opinion changes or not or to see how lonng your opinions on how to handle criminals keep you alive.

May 18, 2009 - 2:36 pm 128. Delia:

125. Bigger Diggler:

“This cop got his rocks off by gratuitously kicking an unarmed, complying, non-violent suspect.”

Dirk, I agree with some of your rant but how on earth do you know…:

A. The perp was unarmed?
B. The perp was non-violent? -[risking the lives of innocent citizens by going on a ‘chase’ is hardly ‘non-violent’ IMHO.
C. The perp wasn’t wanted for other warrants, possibly of a violent nature?

We also couldn’t hear what the perp said to the police officer before the ‘head-kick’, and if the gang-banger was strung out on drugs he could have told the Officer he was going to kill him for all we know! When police have to deal with druggies, that’s a whole nudder kettle O’ fish to fry. How do we honestly judge something from just a youtube vid from a heli?

Even the next cop came up and slammed him with his baton, so SOMETHING other than what we could make out was definitely going on.

Let’s face it, this guy isn’t some innocent kid who skipped school to hang out with his buddies for a day of ‘fun’ and ‘innocent’ mischief.

May 18, 2009 - 2:41 pm 129. E:

The cop should be fired.

There is no place in public service for people who can’t control themselves and who can’t treat the public – all of it – with respect.

Yeah the guy this cop kicked was a scumbag – this time. Next time maybe it won’t be.

May 18, 2009 - 2:43 pm 130. paul_unalaska:

For those up in arms of the gang banger not getting his just desserts, don’t fret.

California’s Governor is flirting with closing San Quentin, the L.A. Coliseum and other areas; as well as releasing tens of thousands of criminals from the penal system to make up for the 50 + billion deficit.

‘Misunderstood’ Rodriguez and the like will soon be out and making up for their checkered past. Right? Right?

May 18, 2009 - 2:49 pm 131. Leatherneck:

I think the Cop/Cops can tell the sharks from the red diaper doper babies, and squared away citizens.

All groups have their 10% sh** birds. However, I do not think this above said Cop is a part of that 10%.

Enemys of this country should be attacked with the full weight of the law including and up to deadly force. This crap is out of control.

May 18, 2009 - 3:05 pm 132. Rich Rostrom:

I had a Chicago police officer tell me flat out “You run, you get hit.”

Fleeing arrest is usually a “free crime” – police are not going to file charges or get a prosecution. So why not run? Every time?

This is just one of the many small ways habitual criminals harass, abuse, or burden police officers. Most of them know exactly how far they can go without being charged. The only way I can think of to deter this sort of behavior is “street justice”.

Police have to have some discretion in this area, or they will be unable to function. Such discretion is dangerous – it can degenerate into enforcement of ethnic or political dominance (and often has). That’s why I’m strongly in favor of mandated “diversity” in police hiring.

May 18, 2009 - 3:08 pm 133. uburoisc:

E is going to get the police force he deserves; he imagines that the utopian police he will create will protect him, but what they will do is simply avoid conflict, and carefully avoid doing anything that might get them too much attention. It won’t take long for the criminals to weight the police and find them harmless; that will embolden them to do what they please. You do not show respect to a thug who drove like a manic in public, all over the road, on the sidewalk, at high speeds; you beat him with a club on principle. If he had tried that BS in any major city, at any time before 1975 or so, he’d be lucky to escape with his life. The police would have pounded the living crap out of him. You can have your effete, over-trained, prissy, “follow what the politicians and bureaucrats tell me” police force; they are only good to stand around and watch. I’ll take natural police and the occasional, but well-placed, demonstration of street justice any day. I do not pay my police to let some gangbanger pull that crap; I expect them to shoot the SOB 5 minutes into the act. I expect my police force to be feared by the gangs, not to be laughed at over a forty.

May 18, 2009 - 3:11 pm 134. shaui-jan:

123.fantom.i refer to him in that manner because he willfully broke a federal firearms law(i agree,it is a stupid one)and then he put his family in harms way.now we probably both agree the goverment was wrong in how they handled it,he is still culpable in the violence.
say for instance i break a NFA law and get arrested.i don’t show up for court,an a arrest warrent is issued.i KNOW what’s going to happen,the feds are going to come aknockin’.
i can either a)give up.B)refuse to surrender and make my wife take my family to safety c)give them the big digit and arm everyone,leaving all my loved ones in the middle of a very dangerous situation.
he chose c),even after an agent and his son were killed.
we have a system of laws and ways to change or ammend them.alot of people fought and died for this.we all cannot just decide which ones to follow,get caught and then hole up.
i don’t expect the cops to just mosey up there and hope he doesn’t pick them off.they couldn’t catch him off the property,he knew they were after him.
if my facts are incorrect or feel my logic is flawed please let me know.

May 18, 2009 - 3:11 pm 135. anton:

125. Bigger Diggler:

“Cops are so hated nowadays because they have made a pact with the devil: They have wholeheartedly supported the disastrous war on drugs. They traded the motto of “protecting and serving” for the self-serving mammon of fame, money and prestige and promotion by way of felony drug convictions. ”

I have to disagree with this for several reasons;

1. We wholeheartedly enforce the law, if you think the war on drugs is wrong get your lawmaker to change that law. The “pact with the devil” is second-hand a pact with you as it was your representatives that wrote the law.

2. I worked undercover for two years, I have been a police officer for twenty five, I do not seek fame and know of no police office who does. That happens in the movies, not real life.

3. Money and Prestige, heck, where do you live where the cops have both money and prestige? I have neither.

4. Where I live my fellow citizens have been the regular victims of criminal violence caused by drug users. They dislike this and hired me and my fellow officers to protect them. They also like it that we are goofy enough to run into their burning houses to look for their kids while the firemen are getting out of bed.

5. As yet I have never seen an officer promoted because of a drug bust, some nepotism from time to time, but never a drug bust.

May 18, 2009 - 3:31 pm 136. anton:

134. shaui-jan:
“i don’t expect the cops to just mosey up there and hope he doesn’t pick them off” That was probably true of Weaver, but he had little trust for the Feds after they begged him for months to saw that barrel down for them.

Kohresh, on the other hand, rode his bike into town three days a week to pick up the mail. This was widely know, but Reno wanted a show involving religious wackos. Got more than she bargained for I would guess.

May 18, 2009 - 3:36 pm 137. c. j. acworth:

The officer is a disgrace and should be sent to bed without his supper and NO computer games for a week.

May 18, 2009 - 3:37 pm 138. David S:

@71. Redbone:

Ok all you whiney ACLU liberal tree huggers who think the cop was out of line, which would you prefer:
…
a) Thug gets two shots to the skull, killing him.
…
I’d prefer A, but that’s just me…

That can be arranged, although I would personally go for option C. Any particular reason for your suicidal tendencies?

Peace.

DS

May 18, 2009 - 3:53 pm 139. Fantom:

“124. robotech master:
To
115. Usaq Madik
120. Fantom

I’m 11B1P”

So E3, consider that snipers in FDR’s war were not brought back alive. That is the tacit rule was that a sniper who killed our men could not surrender at the last moment… he was shot dead.. executed in the field.

Consider that in the context of a Police Officer giving a scumbag a kick in the head for same… surrendering after inflicting max damage to others.

Consider that and put your leftwingnut crap away.

May 18, 2009 - 3:54 pm 140. Fantom:

“134. shaui-jan:

..feel my logic is flawed please let me know.”

There was a day free men stood up, families and all…… to tyranny. 1776.

They risked all, families included. I guess the question begged.. is just what leash on those freedoms will you abide?

May 18, 2009 - 4:03 pm 141. John:

108. Pete…You bloviated “So, you’re a Federal Citizen, unlike me? I’m curious as to why you assert that I’m not a “Federal Citizen”. I was born here, both my parents were born here. I have a legal SS#, pay my taxes, have never been arrested for anything, have a college degree, and have never taken Federal assistance, or even a college loan. Oh, that’s right, you clowns only think that people who walk lockstep with your demented political philosophy are “real Americans”.”

Yes, I am unlike you and 99% of the other US Citizens.
I have the exact citizenship as Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson and the rest of the founding fathers. You do not!
It is an expensive and complicated undertaking but you and the rest of the US Citizens have a 2nd class citizenship. I pay my taxes and all the same stuff you do. I am not part of the religious right or the leftard group you belong to.
There is nothing wrong with being a US Citizen and my passport says that as there is no difference to other countries I travel to. Don’t ask me to explain it as you wouldn’t understand based on your one sided posts that are anti-American, left fringed and Marxist in essence.

May 18, 2009 - 5:15 pm 142. sheesh:

127. Macko:
When the car thief laid on the ground although it appeared sumissive he was dictating the terms and was in charge.
When the cop kicked him the car thief realized that he was no longer dictating the terms and that the cop was in charge.

You act like kicking a surrendering suspect in the head is part of the training manual. Try this: Lay down on the ground face down, spread eagle with an angry cop standing over you with a gun pointed at your head and tell me if you feel in charge.

May 18, 2009 - 5:32 pm 143. El hefe:

What should a person expect to happen when running from the cops and endangering 100’s of people in the process while smashing up a few cars? A kick in the head sounds mild. There are consequences for everything. The problem is these bangers didn’t get kicked in the head (figuratively of course) soon enough in life to learn that this is what they can expect when achieving the above fame. Now its off to prison for another round of social rehab then back out on the street again for more instruction on ‘consequences of your actions 101′ from the LA cops. Why do cops have to be the teachers, can’t citizens get together and clean up their cities and towns? That’s what we pay the cops for, to instruct our kids with boots to the head?
If he doesn’t get his way in tomorrows voting (it’s not likely) Ahhnold the Governator has threatened to bless all of Cali with some 30,000 inmates that the state can’t support and has to turn loose on the good citizens. Then he threatens to lay off a bunch of cops. Uh OH! Sounds like blackmail!
Ammo anyone?

May 18, 2009 - 5:37 pm 144. AtheistConservative:

Why is it wrong to think it’s NOT a mistake, or bad conduct, for the cop to kick this thug?

People have forgotten the entire idea of negative reinforcement. There’s SUPPOSED to be bad consequences for bad behavior.

Jail doesn’t work – it only increases one’s street cred and trains them to be a better criminal. So why is it so bad for a cop to throw a kick or punch or two at the criminal?

It reminds me of the Rodney King issue. If anybody deserved a beating, it was Rodney King. Not for his color, not for any of the other nonsense – because he was crack-addled and speeding through residential areas with no regard for the life or well-being of others.

May 18, 2009 - 5:58 pm 145. Fantom:

“143. El hefe:…Ammo anyone?”

Like I said earlier… “Sooner or Later”. Nature will take it’s course.. and we will once again be able to go on vacation and leave our doors unlocked.

May 18, 2009 - 6:02 pm 146. Ivanna Tinkle:

This story isn’t going anywhere simply because the Police Officer involved is not a White Man. As a Hispanic or Black Police Officer he could have kicked this scumbags head in until what few braincells he had were leaking out of his ears and the story still would not get much attention. Now if it had been a White Police Officer, even if he had offered the scumbag a clean set of clothes, a hot Starbucks coffee, his own personal masseuse and his own jail cell complete with a hot tub, a 24 hours chef and topless waitresses to take care of his every need (think happy ending), the White Police Officer would still be brought up on charges. Oh racism is alive and well in America in 2009, it’s just that the roles have been reversed. And I didn’t see any mention of whether or not the scumbag was illegal. Wanna take bets??

May 18, 2009 - 6:21 pm 147. Leatherneck:

146,

Lol!

Don’t you know the only people that can be racist are white males? Where have you been?

Just ask Rev. Wright.

May 18, 2009 - 7:16 pm 148. john from cinncinatti:

the cops get just as rough as the bangers. the next time it’s gonna be someone that doesn’t deserve the kick in the head and that’s the rub of it all. so was the car stolen? why did he run? any confrontation with a cop gets your head kicked? that shit happens all the time it just doesn’t get video taped. better luck next time, to the both of them. don’t get caught. the video(big brother) is watching you. i thought the cop was gonna tear his shirt off and yell gooooooaaalllll.

May 18, 2009 - 10:03 pm 149. John:

146 and 147…You are preaching to the choir.
Such true words spoken.
I’m a victim of affirmative action, anti-white hiring practices due to tax benefits and all other sorts of discrimination including scholarships and college entrance because of the color of my skin and for no other reason. I did not complain and instead worked harder to get a good education and job. This is the way of those that are true Americans. Unfortunately the reverse discrimination is still alive and well over 50 years later and seems to get worse with each coming year. It’s too bad that the Hispanic and African American don’t have the same work ethic as the Caucasian as they sure have the opportunities I never had and never will.

May 18, 2009 - 10:34 pm 150. WhyamInotsurprised?:

This thread is a good example of why using the court of public opinion to judge the policeman’s actions is worthless. Just emotional crap spewed by many who enjoy freedom to walk the streets in relative safety but not understanding the price that must be paid to provide it.

For me I will always give the Police the “benefit of the doubt.” Of course, there are stupid people in every walk of life, but given the war zones they work in, I expect them to protect themselves first. The last thing the criminal wants to do is go back to jail despite the appeal that some attribute to the place, e.g. honing their crime skills.

That means that they will in many cases not be the compliant “citizen” who is mildly surrendering but just setting up the next escape attempt. The officer, by giving him a kick up-side the head, is ensuring his apprehension, protecting himself, his fellow officers who will soon appear and the public. Not doing so puts everyone at risk again.

Everyone here who stands up for this criminal, excuse me, victim, first should do some ride-alongs wit the police. I bet in many areas, that is not possible because of the inherent danger involved as well as the liability involved to the city. God bless our police. They have a tough job and should have the support of every “honest” citizen. When they go rogue and act irresponsibly as determined by the DA and IA, then they should be prosecuted like anyone else.

May 18, 2009 - 10:35 pm 151. jvon:

“Distraction blow”. I like that. I’m going to remember it.

May 19, 2009 - 12:14 am 152. shaui-jan:

136.anton.no disagreement on waco,heads should have rolled.as far as weaver not trusting the feds,what did he think they were going to do…shoot his family?why is he still alive …how many rounds did he expend?all evidence points to an ignorant zealot,imho.
140.fantom.i would gladly risk everything if the time were to come.if you think ruby ridge was an example,we simply disagree.
142.sheesh?….guess that link i sent you was helpful,or someone stole your screen name again.
143.el hefe.except for some parts of miami,down here gangbangers tread lightly.it might be because living out your rap dream fantasies around here can get you room tempature real quick.three different gunranges,ten minutes from my house…ammo anyone?plenty thank you.
as far as the cop and the loser goes…i’ll leave it to the jury.i personaly believe anyone causing a high speed chase in a populated area,is commiting a violent crime.

May 19, 2009 - 1:23 am 153. robotech master:

To 139. Fantom

Your kidding right? What type of retarded comparison is that… a cop is NOT a soldier… they are a citizen like everyone else who has rules to follow. They most also follow the most important rules in the US… THE US F***ING CONSTITUTION.

What soldiers do on the battlefield is hugely different in those contexts then a cop… by alot. To even make such a comparison shows your complete ignorance of even the most basic reality of war and principles of what the US constitution and US law enforcement stand for.

Cops are private citizens they are no better or worse then any other person thats walking the street. Just because they are payed to be citizens full time doesn’t mean they get to be above the law. This cop broke the law CLEARLY without any doubt. This idea that “lets hear his side” is complete BS. They have it on video… the complete thing without break from the beginning. Its one thing to argue view point when you only have half a video… because its not clear… it another to argue convoluted reality… IT DOESN’T F***ING MATTER WHAT THE COP “SAW” OR BELIEVED… HE WAS WRONG. What he “saw” is irrelevant because it wasn’t reality.

Just because a cop “sees” someone as “resiting arrest” doesn’t give them the “RIGHT” to attack that person…. they really need to be resiting arrest before they can start beating them for being stupid.

Cops like this don’t just attack gang members they attack anyone and everyone… I mean look clearly in this video the cop was “attacked” by a bike gang banger…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irVlwb8a3TU

Or how about another vicious gang member from the “seniors gangs” threatening cops with a gun….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4

May 19, 2009 - 3:31 am 154. John:

153. robotech master:
I agree with you.
Did you know Cops call us civilians…as if they are not?

May 19, 2009 - 7:42 am 155. WhyamInotsurprised?:

#149 John – So sad, so very sad. You didn’t realize your dreams so you blame affirmative action for it. Oh, so sad!

A real American would not make excuses and harbor racist attitudes. Life was not fair to you! Sounds like a liberal complaint. “We have to make life fair, even for the white guy who feels discriminated against.”

It seems from your story that you’ve been dealing with this a long time. I’d suggest you get some counseling.

May 19, 2009 - 7:46 am 156. Barry 0351:

ooooh robotechmaster wants a medal……

May 19, 2009 - 8:21 am 157. Pete:

141. Again, John. Please explain how I’m not a US Citizen when I was born here and lived here my whole life. Care to point out to me just where I’ve run afoul of our citizenship requirements? Or have you redefined what it means to be an American by “agree poltically only with conservatives”?

Guess the 1st Amendment really doesn’t mean shit to you, John, huh?

May 19, 2009 - 9:20 am 158. Pete:

One more thing John, you can’t say things like “It’s too bad that the Hispanic and African American don’t have the same work ethic as the Caucasian…” while simultaneously claiming that YOU are somehow the victim of racism. You need to go to websites other than PJ and Stormfront once in a while, chief.

May 19, 2009 - 9:25 am 159. Bigger Diggler:

Where did these omnipotent, out-of-control violent gangs come from? Why are they so powerful? What does our future hold?

The isane profits from illegal marijuana, that’s how. And how do you take away those profits from the illegal cartels, both here and in Mexico?

By legalizing marijuana.

Look at Mexico for a good taste of our future: 6,500 people were killed as a result of drug gang turf warfare last year. What could possibly be worth the killing of more people than the US has lost in both Afghanistan and Iraq during the entire history of both wars? And the Mexican mafia has infiltrated our cities to leverage a stranglehold over the illegal drug business.

Violent Italian gangs: took over the illegal alcohol business during prohibition,

Violent Mexican gangs: taking over the illegal marijana business in the War on Drugs.

Do you think there is any obvious parallels here?

Guess who is most opposed to the legalization of marijuana? The cops, thats who. They have everything to lose with a sane national drug policy. Tens of thousands of cops would lose their jobs overnight, the day after marijuana is legalized.

No politician will have any sort of political future should they dare advocate a sane way out of this police state-generated national nightmare, and the organized Chiefs of Police will mount the most intense lobbying effort you have ever seen.

So no, a corrupt cop brutally kicking a hispanic gang banger in the head is not going to cure this problem.

May 19, 2009 - 9:56 am 160. RV:

Well said Robo. The militarization of our polce force is one of the most dangerous things happening in our country right now. The amount of SWAT no-knock raids on innocent, non-violent people has increased dramatically over the last couple of years. A family in this country has a much greater chance of police kicking open their front door in the middle of the night and having a loaded automatic weapon pointed at their chidren than they do of being invovled in some kind of terrorist attack. And there is nothing, NOTHING you can do about it. You can’t sue, you can’t get the State to pay for damages, you can’t even get an apology. And if you are lucky enough, your dog won’t be gunned done, but it is doubtful.

May 19, 2009 - 11:58 am 161. Tinfoil Hatter:

Calibrating the Care-O-Meter for Mr. Rodriguez…

Yep, still zero.

May 19, 2009 - 12:14 pm 162. shaui-jan:

59.bigger digler.i think if we decriminalized cannabis,tens of thousands of police would be able to do real police work.if anyones’ conspiring to keep it illegal for profit purposes…. it’s the alcohol companies.

May 19, 2009 - 12:42 pm 163. Bigger Diggler:

Re: Militarization of the Police

We can soon look forward to having militarized police fighting violent daylight gun battles on our downtown streets against heavily-armed drug gang members imported straight from Mexico.

Isn’t it great? Having an arms race before our eyes on main street.

Over marijuana. YEAH.

I bet in five years, the drug gangbangers will have armored personel carriers, UAVs, RPGs and 50 caliber machine guns purchased with the obscene, swollen profits that can only occur when government policy is demonstrably insane. And the spokesman for the Police will hysterically demand and get M-1 tanks, Predator Drones, Armored Humvees, B-52 airstrikes in drug-blighted neighborhoods and so on.

Probably 80 or 90 percent of Police work currently is is related to carrying out the insane war on drug, which funds and enriches the gangs. Its purpose is to prohibit voluntary economic transactions between consenting adults.

How can any free market advocate be “pro-police” in this debate?

May 19, 2009 - 12:53 pm 164. Ms. Attitude:

74. robotech master:

What is the point of arguing who has it worse? The police in the US or an infantryman in Iraq? It’s apples and oranges, and a waste of energy. Both groups deserve the respect and support of the American citizens. Both group have members who have had enough and get out of line. Both groups have good and bad….

The only thing I have to compare the video to is that of a parent. Your kid runs out in the road and won’t come back, you finally get them to stop and you catch up with them and swat them on the leg!! The cop kicked! OUCH.

May 19, 2009 - 1:28 pm 165. Ms. Attitude:

142. sheesh:

Sounds like you speak from experience.

May 19, 2009 - 1:39 pm 166. John:

155. WhyamInotsurprised?:
I did get over it like a true American.
Had you read the whole piece your comment would not have been made.
Sounds like you are a TROLL.

May 19, 2009 - 1:44 pm 167. John:

157. Pete: I’ll not waste my time explaining US vs Federal Citizenship to a cretin like you who can’t understand normal thinking. Go to Wikipedia and look it up…Maybe you will learn something.

158. Pete: I did not preface the statement with “ALL”. so I’m not stereotyping as you are eluding to.
As in ALL bloggers are not stupid Trolls like Pete.

May 19, 2009 - 1:48 pm 168. Bigger Diggler:

The Iron Law of Prohibition is a term coined by Richard Cowan which states that “the more intense the law enforcement, the more potent the prohibited substance becomes.”

Marijuana prohibition is extremely effective, since it is so bulky in relationship to its chemical effectiveness. Hence, the 1980’s “Crack cocaine hysteria” pushed aside marijuana as the smugglers drug of choice. Increasingly draconian law enforcement and lengthy mandatory prison terms largely eradicated the market for Crack. In response, Methamphetamine, like its predecessor “bathtub gin;” has become dominant in the market, given the ability to create it at small buildings, using commonly-available chemicals and laboratory equipment. It is far more dangerous, addictive, longer lasting and cheaper than the Crack Cocaine that it has largely replaced.

This is how we have “progressed” from marijuana being the dominant recreational drug of choice 30 years ago to the scourge of Meth.

Important corollaries to this “Iron Law” of prohibition include:

a). The more potent the prohibited substance becomes, the more higher the profit margins that can be earned in the business of manufacturing and retailing it;

b). The higher the profit margins in the illegal manufacturing and retailing of the prohibited substance becomes, the more likely the formation of cartels (”gangs”)that facilitates the black market economic infrastructure;

c). As the number of cartels inevitably increase due to the inexorable economic attractiveness in “a” and “b,” the more likely cartels will resort to violence to protect their market share, since they cannot, by definition, resort to the Court system to peacefully arbitrate disputes;

d). The widespread resort to violence inevitably spawns an arms race, as cartels seek governmental-like monopoly over the use of force;

e). Weapons inevitably increase in lethality and concealability, making them more and more potent and harder to detect, much like the drugs themselves. The best weapons therefore are illegal, so the Iron Law of prohibition mandates the popularity of increasingly lethal and smaller weapons, again based upon the economic utility of smuggling.

d). As the weapons become more lethal and concealable, the brazeness and fearlessness of their users increase exponentially since the enforceability against such weapons decreases.

e). Due to all of the above, it is predictable that drug cartels will likely adopt the cellular structure of terrorist organizations, absent the flamboyant propaganda efforts that seem to be the achilles heel of terrorist organizations.

May 19, 2009 - 2:00 pm 169. Bigger Diggler:

So Jack,

the massive violent scourge of increasingly powerful drugs and increasingly violent and assertive gangs that your profession has spawned by vigorously whipping up public hysteria cannot be cured by a frustrated cop impotently kicking a compliant gang banger in the head.

May 19, 2009 - 2:18 pm 170. robotech master:

To 164. Ms. Attitude

“The only thing I have to compare the video to is that of a parent. Your kid runs out in the road and won’t come back, you finally get them to stop and you catch up with them and swat them on the leg!! The cop kicked! OUCH.”

Police are public servants… they are suppose to do their JOB in professional manner. If they can’t handle that which clearly this guy can’t then you get the boot. I have no tolerance for being abused by anyone…should the police take such action against me and I have the means I will use every manner within my power under the law which does include lethal force to defend myself.

There is no debate that what he did was wrong and was against the law… its clear cut. If he wasn’t a cop he’d already be in jail and be wondering if he’d have a penny left over after being sued. You have 1 standard for everyone… not the “o its ok because he’s special” standard… be they cops, blacks, hispanics, gays or any of a host of other “special” standard ppl… they are no better then anyone period….

May 19, 2009 - 2:31 pm 171. bobbcat:

99. Delia. Good video. Here is the author’s website.

May 19, 2009 - 3:12 pm 172. Bigger Diggler:

I want to address the perverse effect that mandatory minimum prison sentences for non-violent drug crimes and the “three strikes and you’re out” laws have on producing the violent “super criminals” that leads to law enforcement spouting the kind of self-serving utter nonsense that started this discussion. Both the drug prohibition laws and the cartel structure of the drug gangs have the effect of eliminating the uncompetitive amateur (and mostly non-violent) drug suppliers and users and the milder forms of drugs, in favor of more potent and easily smuggled synthetic super drugs produced and distributed by psychopathically violent super criminals. .

I will rephrase the question: How do people get transformed into gratuitously violent, amoral, and monstrous super-criminals with no regard for human life? Watch the movie “Blow” sometime if you want to understand this mass-produced phenomena. The protagonist, who was only a peaceful weed dealer, goes on a lengthy prison sentence, and finds it instead a finishing school for becoming a sophisticated and violent large-scale purveyor of cocaine. That is the end result, more times than not, of our harsh mandatory minimum drug sentencing scheme.

Only in prison is the sheer development of the perfection of meth production and distribution going on today. Mandatory minimums and three strikes laws make the choice for violently preventing a return to prison a no-brainer.

May 19, 2009 - 4:50 pm 173. WhyamInotsurprised?:

John – Troll? Again you sound just like a liberal.

You make idiotic comments like “It’s too bad that the Hispanic and African American don’t have the same work ethic as the Caucasian as they sure have the opportunities I never had and never will.” This has nothing to do with the article about a gang member being kicked by police while surrendering after a dangerous and long car chase.

So am I to conclude from your statement that you are using this opportunity to rank on hispanics and blacks because you are a white supremacist? And because they got opportunities you will never have, you are an angry white guy?

Just what the hell do your points have to do with the issue being discussed in this article?

May 19, 2009 - 5:17 pm 174. shaui-jan:

palatecleanser….totaly OT and bada@@!sure to cheer you up!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NUo_knsbhM&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcurmudgeonlyskeptical%2Eblogspot%2Ecom%2F2009%5F05%5F14%5Farchive%2Ehtml&feature=player_embedded

May 19, 2009 - 6:04 pm 175. sheesh:

165. Ms. Attitude . . . “Sounds like you speak from experience.”

You don’t know that though, do you? And if I have found myself in that situation, does it mean I was guilty? Careful, Scooter is listening.

May 19, 2009 - 6:25 pm 176. shaui-jan:

sheesh.video.watch….scooter?

May 19, 2009 - 7:43 pm 177. Pete:

John,

I see you are completely unable to actually articulate how exactly I’m not a Citizen of the United States. I meet every single criteria for citizenship (born here, live here, pay Federal Taxes, pay SS taxes, have a valid SS number, etc), so it seems that you are basing your assessment that I’m somehow not a Citizen of the United States purely on political disagreements. In a country with 300 million plus people, you’re going to have a difficult time having 100% agreement on anything, so it would appear that your metric for citizenship is pretty foolish.

Now if you’re going to argue that somehow we have some sort of threshold that makes some US Citizens somehow “super-citizens” with rights above and beyond other citizens, then you’re treading into pseudo-fascistic Heinlein Starship Troopers bullshit.

May 20, 2009 - 9:27 am 178. Ms. Attitude:

170. robotech master: I agree that the kick should not have happened. Just like I’d disagree with a parent crossing the line from discipline to abuse. What the police are allowed to use to protect you can some day be turned and used against you.

My son was pulled over for drag racing. The police officer pulled him out of the car through the window…my son is a big boy, so you know the adrenaline was flowing. I always taught my sons that if they found themselves on the wrong end of the law to be respectful and limp!! My son didn’t run from the officer and did everything he was asked. I got a call from the police and when I arrived at the station, my son was sitting at the officers desk drinking a coke talking to the officers in the room. I asked why he wasn’t locked up and the answer was, “he was so respectful I realized he didn’t belong in there.” Yes, there was a ticket to paid. Yes, the car (beautiful green Mustang Cobra) was sold the next week. Yes, he did community service with Habitat for Humanity.

My point: People treat you the way you treat them.

Sheesh: shush!!!

May 20, 2009 - 10:31 am 179. Bigger Diggler:

With California needing to cut $billions out of their police budget, I would argue that the best place make these cuts is with cops who kick defenseless citizens in the head for no reason, and cops that feign ignorance about police brutality.

May 20, 2009 - 12:20 pm 180. John:

173. WhyamInotsurprised?:
Go ahead and judge me. I don’t care what you think…really!

Go ahead and label me. I don’t give a rat’s a$$ what you think!….really!

May 20, 2009 - 12:35 pm 181. Dr. Mark:

Hey Robotech…most of your commentary is spot on. However, you are not the only P.O. in the sudience here. That @SShole deserved a little curbstone justice. You of all people, should know that it is an f’ing war out there. My only regret is that a freakin camera was there to capture an otherwise righteous moment!

Pete: waterboard em all, let Allah sort em out. You may be a citizen, but you are coward unable to fathom the price that must be paid to protect the interests of this nation. Those ragheads deserve no protection under OUR consitution and I guarantee (having deployed to the middle east twice)that they would slash the throats of you and your entire extended family for their own ends. Wise up, turn MSNBC on and let the men willing to do what must be done accomplish the mission…of keeping your sorry butt safe.

May 20, 2009 - 12:45 pm 182. sheesh:

It takes a brave man to beat somebody unconscious . . . Now I do’t’ mean knock him out, no sirree, heh, heh . . . I’m talkin about beatin’ on a guy who’s already unconscious . . . boy howdy!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/20/birmingham-police-beating_n_206040.html

Now there’s some real brave peace officers, boys. Now I’ll agree with ya on one point: if they beat a dead man, well, he’s got no rights cuz he’s, you know, dead and up with Jesus in a big purple chair so he don’t need no rights anyhows.

May 20, 2009 - 3:53 pm 183. Pete:

181. Stay classy. Good to see our soldiers “liberating” Iraq still are professional enough to call the people there “ragheads”.

May 20, 2009 - 3:56 pm 184. Ms. Attitude:

182. sheesh: So you think a few out of control police officers make them all bad?

183. Pete: Most of the military does not believe in political correctness. Get over it!

May 20, 2009 - 8:18 pm 185. robotech master:

178. Ms. Attitude

Your son got lucky… he ran into good cops who both understand the legal and spirit of their profession. Not everyone holds those values dear. Many maybe as many as 30% of the ppl trying out to be cops solely wish to do it to abused the power and push ppl around. These ppl are weeded out through the police academy much as the army weeds them out through boot camp. However scum always gets through… thats just a fact of life.

To 181. Dr. Mark

I don’t have a problem per say with “street justice” only as long as it stays a level playing field… with cops their is rarely a level playing field. In some corrupt areas cops will arrest you for attacking them because they bruised their hand bashing your face in…

You do the crime you do the time… cops want to beat ppl go for it just no whining after they join their friend in jail after doing it.

Police are their to file reports and do paperwork after a crime happens…. all ppl should act to help stop crime period… be it from some gang member or from the police or anyone else.

May 21, 2009 - 1:17 am 186. Ms. Attitude:

185. robotech master: I don’t think it’s luck. In the town I live in the police are highly respected. A recent incident of the police opening fire on a man and putting 8 bullets into him caused little problems. The young man pulled a gun in the Waffle House then went outside and waved it over the heads of the gathered crowd. He didn’t realize the police were there and they took him out. Our community rallied around the police, thanking them for their service and saving many lives. The family and friends wanted to talk down our police force (the gunman was from another town) but we stood behind our police. Like I said before, you respect them and they will respect you.

May 21, 2009 - 6:17 am 187. sheesh:

184 Ms Atitud . . . Nope . . . I’m just saying the people who say the cops are always right are wrong. And kicking a spread eagle suspect in the head is wrong.

May 21, 2009 - 6:40 am 188. Bigger Diggler:

“I’m talkin about beatin’ on a guy who’s already unconscious.”

How could those cops be sure he was unconscious without beating him some more? And hey, just cuz he might have been unconscious doesn’t mean he couldn’t had weapons stashed about his body …. RPG’s, knives, squad machine guns, grenades.

The good thing about that case is that five bad cops lost their jobs. That is rare.

May 21, 2009 - 11:09 am 189. White Helmet:

186: Ms. Attitude:

They need to respect me whether I respect them or not. My parents pay their salaries! Its not my jo to kiss up to cops so they’ll like me. They are supposed to just do their job for heaven’s sakes. …..But if I remember correctly, you’re dating someone in uniform: your bias is showing.

May 21, 2009 - 1:55 pm 190. Jimmy:

Hey 189!
Everybody works for somebody and helps to pay someone elses salary! You’re right, you don’t have to like me or respect me and I don’t expect anyone to kiss my ass.
You’re wrong, we don’t have to respect you; we treat you with as much respect as you deserve. You act like a human being, we’ll treat you like a human being. You act like an ass and we can treat you like an ass. What are you, about 14? Grow up and learn a little bit more about the world before you pass judgement on that which you know little or nothing

May 21, 2009 - 5:36 pm 191. Bigger Diggler:

‘You act like an ass and we can treat you like an ass.’

And I will sue your ass. I sue bad cops for a living. And there are so many terrible cops nowadays that I am living in a fantastic modern California gold rush. Cop behavior has degenerated to well below civilized standards.

Unfortunately for your ass, so much cop misconduct is videotaped. It is so much more difficult nowadays to practice that traditional staple of cop evasion: lying convincingly under oath to protect your ass.

So go ahead, mistreat defenseless civilians. Sooner or later, your ass will be mine.

May 23, 2009 - 10:07 am 192. pst314:

Peter Hitchens (the conservative brother of Christopher Hitchens) has some interesting things to say about law enforcement in his book A Brief History of Crime, including observations on the policing methods that London bobbies actually used to control the criminally-inclined.

Jul 25, 2009 - 12:01 pm

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