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What if McCain Loses?

Would conservatives riot and threaten to move to Canada?

October 17, 2008 - by John Hawkins

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You can also expect the traditional round of post-election-bloodbath finger-pointing that usually breaks down into two camps. The first group is the “we lost because we weren’t conservative enough” faction; the second is the “we lost because we were too conservative” squish posse.

This time around, however, because John McCain is pretty much the standard bearer for the squish camp, it’s crystal clear who’s going to lose that argument — which should entail a shift back to the right for the Republican Party.

Of course, it’s hard to say who’ll be leading that shift, because all the current “leaders” in the Republican Party (Mitch McConnell, Jon Kyl, John Boehner, Roy Blunt, Mike Duncan, John Ensign, and Tom Cole) will probably be drummed out of their leadership positions in disgrace after a second terrible election cycle in a row.

Whoever is leading the party will have a much easier job than Republicans today, however, because the GOP will be completely out of power. Thus, they will be able to do exactly what the Democrats have done for the last eight years: be grouchy, unhelpful backseat drivers who drag their feet and oppose anything that the party in power decides to do.

That can be good political strategy. Just ask the Democrats, who are still improbably acting like the opposition party despite the fact that they have been in charge of Congress for the last two years.

There also will have to be a retooling of the conservative agenda. Reagan’s principles are still sound, but the GOP will be waiting a long time to get back into power if we keep trying to run on the remnants of Reagan’s agenda.

The “Evil Empire” has splintered, crime and welfare no longer swing votes, and issues that were relatively unimportant in 1980, like immigration and health care, have become hot political potatoes.

If the GOP doesn’t want to spend decades in the wilderness, it will have to adapt to that new reality and use conservative principles to craft a more appealing agenda for the American middle class. Conservatives won’t be able to try the old “we’re the lesser of two evils” approach that seems destined to fail for the second straight election in 2008.

Last but not least, there’s one more key question that has to be asked: when will the lethargy that has gripped most conservatives since 2004 finally be replaced with the sort of fiery desire that has animated liberals over the last few years?

It will probably begin about the time Obama and company shove through the first bad piece of socialist-inspired legislation. Regrettably, that is likely to be the first moment this utter disaster for the country will become real to millions of conservatives.

Or maybe McCain will still win. In three weeks, we’ll know for sure. But unless something changes, the conservative movement and the country are going to have hell to pay for the feckless leadership we’ve had from the Republican Party over the last few years.

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John Hawkins is a professional blogger who runs Conservative Grapevine and Right Wing News. He also writes a weekly column for Townhall.

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295 Comments

1. Marc Malone:

Who is Jon Galt?

Oct 17, 2008 - 1:12 am 2. Typewriter King:

When government exercises as much power as it does, I see little that’s unseemly about taking on the attitude of a resistance movement when those coming into power have been holding such a grudge.

After all, some of us will receive the same treatment as that Joe The Plumber and the pro-life woman in Lufkin, Texas.

I see an honest pledge to go into exile, if the threat is clear and present, as a perfectly respectable option. We don’t know how vindictive a completely enigmatic man coming into power may be against the ‘loyal opposition’, and it would be perfectly reasonable for say the most vocal pundits to have an extraction plan laid out for close family members.

Mr Hawkins, I wouldn’t be so sure the next crop of conservative leaders will surface in the GOP. We may see something wonderfully new and different coming.

Oct 17, 2008 - 2:23 am 3. Ed Wallis:

To Marc Malone – see: http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/ask-dr-helen-is-it-time-to-go-john-galt/

To John Hawkins – SHAME ON YOU for printing such demoralizing thoughts right at a time when Sen. McCain needs all the support he can muster to defeat Obama. It truly does not seem to me you are applying “reverse psychology” to enthuse the team. SHAME ON YOU.

Oct 17, 2008 - 2:27 am 4. Chuck Pelto:

TO: John Hawkins
RE: [OT] Of Black Helos

that means the black helicopter crowd will be back — John Hawkins

Tell me John. What color is your standard US Army helicopter when you see it from an angle where the sunlight does not directly fall upon the side you’re observing?

Then again, I’ve got comrades-in-arms who were stationed at Fort Campbell, home of the 101st Air Assault Division, a.k.a. The Puking Buzzards, from the perspective of my fellow paratroopers of the 82d Airborne Division. They’ve got LOTS of helos there. And the funny think is my comrades-in-arms who spent time there say some of them ARE painted black. I have no reason to doubt the veracity of their reports, as I’ve know them for years and trust their honesty.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Where do you hide and egg?]

Oct 17, 2008 - 2:49 am 5. jvon:

1976 gave us Jimmy Carter. 1980 gave us Ronald Reagan.

If 2008 gives us Barack Obama, we will have our work cut out for us for 2012.

Oct 17, 2008 - 2:49 am 6. Sheila:

Typewriter King – I’ve heard about Joe the Plumber over here, but who’s the pro-life woman in Lufkin, Tx and what’s her story? Do you have a link? (Sorry I’m a little lazy today ).

Oct 17, 2008 - 2:53 am 7. Chuck Pelto:

TO: John Hawkins, et al.
RE: Two Camps of Finger-Pointers

You can also expect the traditional round of post-election-bloodbath finger-pointing that usually breaks down into two camps. The first group is the “we lost because we weren’t conservative enough” faction; the second is the “we lost because we were too conservative” squish posse. — John Hawkins

You left out the non-traditional camp; we’re too disorganized to deserve to win.

In my county, the local chair was elected because we thought we’d identified a lion. Too bad we were sadly mistaken. And I’m not so certain as to the quality of the team heading up the state-level organization either. They all seem so stuck in the previous millennium. And I’m not much younger than the local guy. And I think the state guy is my age.

We’ve had wonderful opportunities over the last two years to improve our operations, gather information that would be useful in this years battles, identify candidates for various offices at all levels of government and equip them for the fight. And we did NOTHING! Indeed, what little we did do was thrown away several months ago.

McCain may win, but at the local and state levels here, it would take a freaking ‘Act of God’ to win….And I’m PISSED!

Regards,

Chuck(le)

Oct 17, 2008 - 3:12 am 8. Jim:

Oh you poor rejected conservatives. The country is fed up with your hateful rhetoric, your kissing the asses of the rich, and your president who is the biggest moron on the face of he earth. And then there is the thought of the possibility of the bimbo from Alaska stepping in as president??

The American people are fed up and want change and its coming guys. Get over it!

Oct 17, 2008 - 3:14 am 9. Chip:

jvon wrote:

“1976 gave us Jimmy Carter. 1980 gave us Ronald Reagan.

If 2008 gives us Barack Obama, we will have our work cut out for us for 2012.”

I have been telling young voters all along that my generation was fortunate that Ronald Reagan was in the wings to save us from our Democratic deluge.

They might not be so fortunate.

Rural America as we know it will be economically destroyed.

We are not talking about a nightmare here. The realities of an Obama presidency will be extremely destructive and brutally painful.

Oct 17, 2008 - 3:23 am 10. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Sheila
RE: The Lufkin, Texas Woman Story

Is THIS the story you’re thinking about.

It’s ‘interesting’. And, it could well be an indicator of ‘things to come’.

TO: John Hawkins, et al.
RE: Leave the Country?

Hardly.

Fight for the country?

You betcha!

Something to do with an oath of office I took back in 1975.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Against all enemies foreign AND domestic.]

Oct 17, 2008 - 3:24 am 11. JFM:

1976 gave us Jimmy Carter. 1980 gave us Ronald Reagan.

If 2008 gives us Barack Obama, we will have our work cut out for us for 2012

By 2012 Iran will have nukes and used them.

Oct 17, 2008 - 3:28 am 12. vivo:

If McCain loses, we don’t get Palin.

We get a breath of fresh air.

Oct 17, 2008 - 3:31 am 13. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: Ignorant vivo

If McCain loses, we don’t get Palin. We get a breath of fresh air. — vivo

Yeah….

….one hour each day in a walk around the jail-yard.

Regards,

Chuck(le)

Oct 17, 2008 - 3:47 am 14. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Sheila
RE: The Lufkin Story

If that report is accurate, one would think that the Secret Service would file a ‘false report’ charge against the Obama volunteer.

I wonder if they made her fill out a complaint and sign it. There’s a possible charge of perjury there.

Regards,

Chuck(le)

Oct 17, 2008 - 3:48 am 15. Jiggs:

If Obama wins we go down the slippery slope to European Socialism. How fine! Has anyone checked the unemployment rate in the EU? They are finding it hard to finance the entitlement addicted, lazy populous. It’s time for “jUST SAY NO” to government interference in our lives. I have a “Who is John Galt?” bumper sticker and will have to start living the motto on 1/20/09. Goodbye U.S.A.

Oct 17, 2008 - 3:54 am 16. Marc Malone:

Ed Wallis – Yeah, I know. I have read every post on this site. ‘Swhy I said what I said.

Oct 17, 2008 - 3:54 am 17. Dave Surls:

“What if McCain Loses?”

Then he loses, and life goes on.

If we can survive the inept, incompetent and even criminal presidencies of Wilson, FDR, Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, Clinton, then we can probably survive Obama as well.

Oct 17, 2008 - 3:56 am 18. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: Jim [the ignoramoose]

The American people are fed up and want change and its coming guys. Get over it! — Jim

I guess ‘Jim’ doesn’t consider me, let alone any other ‘conservative’ a member of his “American people”.

TO: Jim
RE: So….

….my fellow American….

….how much time of your life did YOU dedicate to defending ‘American people’?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[God is alive....and airborne-ranger qualified. And so am I.]

Oct 17, 2008 - 4:33 am 19. Chuck Pelto:

P.S. Between vivo and Jim and the Lufkin Incident….

….I’m wondering who is going to be putting whom into ‘detention’ camps.

Oct 17, 2008 - 4:34 am 20. Chuck Pelto:

TO: John Hawkins, et al.
RE: It Seems That….

….your arguments do not take into account the ‘possibility’ that organizations like ACORN might put the ‘unelected’ into the Oval Office.

I ask you….

…..what do you propose ‘conservatives’ do in THAT scenario?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. There’s a discussion about John Galt, down the hall from here…..

….care to join?

Oct 17, 2008 - 4:39 am 21. crossover:

Canada is refusing to allow anyone that votes for McCain/Palin into the country!

National Security issues!

Oct 17, 2008 - 4:52 am 22. Sheila:

Hey Chuck – thanks for the link, and more importantly thanks for your time, seeing as I was too lazy on too look it up myself (it is Friday and it’s been a looooong week).

This is unbelievable.

An appropriate response if someone rings my mobile unsolicited?…how about “Piss off” (or something else which is a bit too rude for print).

Oct 17, 2008 - 4:56 am 23. Chuck Pelto:

TO: crossover
RE: Heh

Canada is refusing to allow anyone that votes for McCain/Palin into the country! — crossover/blockquote>

How would they know? Unless the Democrats have suborned the secret ballot process.

Furthermore, why would anyone in their ‘Right’ mind move to a place already more socialist than US is?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Inquiring minds want to know.....]

Oct 17, 2008 - 4:56 am 24. RE:

If McCain loses it will be a huge setback for the country, individual liberty, and the First Amendment.
The Orwellian Obama as president would be a huge victory for corruption and evil. His worldview is hostile to America’s founding principles. That worldview hiolds hte natural rights of man in contempt. In that worldview, the state is supreme.

Just look at Obama’s past. There is nothing honorable in it. Nothing. The common thread running through it all is ‘tear down the system’, exploit it, manipulate it fr personal gain.

Look at the way they try to destroy those who are even skeptical and dare to speak up – i.e. ‘Joe the plumber’.

Michael Barone wrote about the coming thugocracy:
http://townhall.com/columnists/MichaelBarone/2008/10/11/the_coming_obama_thugocracy

No matter who wins, an entering into an new era of civil unrest. The left has declared war on traditional American values and will try to replace our founding principles with European style statism. The Left wishes to subordinate the US Constitution to ‘International Law’ and other such democracy and individual liberty squelching mechanisms. The government response to the civil unrest will lead to repression an intimidation. We will have entered into a downward spiral.

The Left is fond of the saying, ‘You have to break a few eggs to make an omelet’. To anyone paying attention, it’s clear they are masking their intent.

History strongly suggests that nothing good is about happen.

Oct 17, 2008 - 4:58 am 25. Jen:

I am scared to death to think that barack hussein obama may get in office. his name is in small letters because he is a very scary small man. who can’t answer questions straight re:Joe the plumber. when his teleprompter breaks down he might as well sit in a corner and suck his thumb with his blankey. I hope that the Conservatives like myself come together and fight to keep control of our country. We have 2 more years of hell with the libs in control of the house and senate so at least with a Conservative prez and vp we might have a fighting chance.

Oct 17, 2008 - 5:13 am 26. Eagle Eye:

I would guess that Jim just finished high school, within the past couple of year’s and would’nt have the Balls, or has been arrested to many times to join the Military.

Oct 17, 2008 - 5:15 am 27. Tinfoil Hatter:

“Oh you poor rejected conservatives. The country is fed up with your hateful rhetoric, your kissing the asses of the rich, and your president who is the biggest moron on the face of he [sic] earth. And then there is the thought of the possibility of the bimbo from Alaska stepping in as president??”

Irony meter, pegging.

I guess the party that melted down the financial system through indolence and corruption (Franks, Pelosi, Schumer, Raines, Obama, Dodd, et. al) will be that “breath of fresh air” for which we’re looking.

Or, we’ll see the Dems continue to stroke off the middle class with cooing phrases and class warfare as they amnesty millions of illegals.

Oct 17, 2008 - 5:32 am 28. Jason:

John McCain’s not going to lose, so let’s not get too worried.

Oct 17, 2008 - 5:37 am 29. venividivici:

The American people are fed up and want change and its coming guys. Get over it!

Face it, liberals are parasites (there’s an argument to be made that many rich individuals are as well, but, in general, rich individuals got there because of hard work), so only a parasite would support the liberal agenda. If liberals had their way, the richest people in America would be government bureaucrats. That’s the endgame of the “change” you idiots keep harping on. I suppose that level of mediocrity is just find by you, though, because you are probably just that: mediocre.

Oct 17, 2008 - 5:40 am 30. mark:

Leaving the country? No, but I’m seriously thinking of moving to Alaska. I guess the hope is that I can isolate myself from the madness of the lower 48.

Oct 17, 2008 - 5:43 am 31. JFM:

What if McCain Loses?”

Then he loses, and life goes on.

That is until terrorists plant a “Made in Iran” nuke in New York.

Oct 17, 2008 - 5:47 am 32. Northern Light:

Ten reasons why American conservatives wouldn’t like it here in Canada.

1. Universal healthcare
2. Gun control
3. No executions
4. In spite of #’s 2 & 3 a lower crime rate.
5. Real honest to goodness socialists
6. Decriminalization of marijuana (coming soon)
7. Welfare without humiliation.
8. No walls to keep foreigners out.
9. Our Conservative government is almost socialistic.
10. Same-sex marriage is legal here.

If American conservatives need a place to flee to, why not try Singapore?

Oct 17, 2008 - 5:49 am 33. Bugs:

Today’s Democrats are smug, arrogant, and insane. They’ve been smug and arrogant since 1960. They’ve been insane since 2000. I don’t imagine an Obama presidency will help.

Oct 17, 2008 - 5:52 am 34. chuck,:

Perhaps emigration might mean evacuating the blue states to make the red ones very, very, red. The two sides deeply hate one another, so it’s best they get out of each other’s faces.

Oct 17, 2008 - 5:52 am 35. Rotwang:

According to the Advance Transition Plan, it looks as though most of you will be treated fairly well, and we are planning only modest adjustments to the Bill of Rights, primarily intended to clarify and shorten it to a reasonable length.

The majority of Americans will not encounter excessive restrictions to travel and communications, and any concerns you have will be addressed by the Neighborhood Transition Cadres and individual Block Monitors.

I wouldn’t sweat it, unless you’re the sort of person who’s prone to counterproductive thoughts or non-compliant behavior.

Oct 17, 2008 - 6:01 am 36. Everett Parker:

My wife and I, retired, have moved from our California home to the ranch in the transmontane Rockies. We’ve put in a second propane tank, a larger genset, gotten serous about deer fencing for the garden and increased fuels storage. Given the political and economic auguries it would be foolish not to be prepared and in a position to shelter our extended family. When we first bought it years ago as an land play investment, recreational destination and tax shelter, we took a lot of heat about “hobby ranching”. We don’t hear that now.

Oct 17, 2008 - 6:05 am 37. Jarhead:

If McCain losses, I help my company move the corporation to a business friendlier county and hope they take me with them. We are paying 39% income tax. Ireland is 12.5%, Chile is 17%, even Sweden is only 26%.

Oct 17, 2008 - 6:17 am 38. Tony:

Not to worry, 4 years of Obama-style socialism with his vile little cronies in office should all but guarantee that those centrist swing voters, who are going to give the messiah a chance to live up to his soaring rhetoric this time around, will switch back to voting Republican next time.

The Republicans just need to get their message right and not let the voters get misled by Obama blaming the Bush Administration for every problem that surfaces over the next few years. Lets face it that’ll be the first excuse every time irrespective of the pathetic performance of a Democrat-led congress since 2006.

If the GOP is honest with itself it should admit that it needs a couple of years in opposition to get their own party in order. McCain wasn’t a great choice for party leader – he was just the best of a bad lot. Even if Obama was out of the picture Clinton would have been a shoe-in for the Democrats this year.

Oct 17, 2008 - 6:22 am 39. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Everett Parker, et al.
RE: Indeed

When we first bought it years ago as an land play investment, recreational destination and tax shelter, we took a lot of heat about “hobby ranching”. We don’t hear that now. — Everett Parker

Nothing like a touch of reality. Eh?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Chance favors the prepared mind. -- Louis Pasteur]

Oct 17, 2008 - 6:22 am 40. bullmoosegal:

Instead of whining, crying, and praying that we’ll be spared – such a liberal response – we need to be fired up NOW. Volunteer to get out the vote now. Donate now. Talk to friends and neighbors now. Ducking for cover and hoping to wait out the tide is unhelpful and not the typical conservative response. Work hard to get McCain elected, and then if he is not, you’ve at least put in everything you could rather than drowning in your own self-pity.

Oct 17, 2008 - 6:30 am 41. democracy4life:

Republicans sure didn’t mind voting that moron into office for 8 years. They didn’t mind his patriot act taking away their right to privacy. They didn’t mind him lying to them about WMD’s and his true intentions in iraq. When haliburton got the job for Iraq no one blinked an eye. Dick Cheney extending the power of the Vice President didn’t bother them. Bush’s deregulation of the banking sector leading to this econonomic nightmare. Yes all that was just okay. God forbid we realize we don’t want 4 more years of that. So go on with your “socialist” cries and let us drink those delicious tears. America doesn’t need anymore of these right wing nut jobs running the country.

Oct 17, 2008 - 6:31 am 42. Tom:

Here’s my scenario for moving to Canada, no make that New Zealand, away from Northern Hemisphere nuclear fallout.

Obama as commander in chief causes (re)enlistments in the military to plummet. Then his naive foreign policy gets us in a real war. The he brings back the draft and trys to nab my now 14 year old son whose only sibling recently died of cancer.

Off we will go.

Oct 17, 2008 - 6:36 am 43. Gman:

Obama’s Trickle Up Poverty

Oct 17, 2008 - 6:44 am 44. JeffM:

i’ve been saying for months that we’re looking at the late 70s all over again.i remember waiting in lines to get gasoline & my father working 14-16 hours a day.my parents made it through Jimmy Carter,i’ll make it through Obama/Dem.congress rule,hopefully.
move to Canada, i think not.i will stay here,support & defend the bill of rights.with a super majority the first 90 days will be the worst.if this happens hopefully 2010 will be like 1994 again.jmo

Oct 17, 2008 - 6:45 am 45. Lump on a Blog » Blog Archive » Obama's Trickle Up Poverty:

[...] John Hawkins on What if McCain Looses. [...]

Oct 17, 2008 - 6:47 am 46. jb:

Let’s do what the Democrats did. You know, lie about the country and put it down when we’re overseas. We’ll call our troops Nazis and accuse them of atrocities they didn’t commit but we wont care because it’s all about getting “OUR POWER” back that was taken away in a “STOLEN” election. We’ll stomp our feet, cry, B_tch, complain, and act like spoiled brats that didn’t get their way. You know we’ll be like the Dems. Arrogant, spiteful, sneaky conniving fools. Yea like the Dems, 4 years (God forbid 8 years) of nothing but complaining and doing absolutely NOTHING to help this country. Just like the Dems of the last 7 years, Country last. We’ll blame ALL hurricanes on Obama. Earthquake – Obama’s fault. We wont have to worry about Israel because they’ll cease to exist. We’ll be like France and when the summer comes we’ll let our old people die in the heat like the progressive, liberal French did. No, I’ll probably put my county first and not do that garbage (like the democrats did) but it’s tempting.

Oct 17, 2008 - 6:53 am 47. Rachel:

I think if Obama does put his works into action, the middle class will feel it first. Do you know that under W the middle class recieved the biggest tax cut out of all the economic levels? Obama WILL raise their rates in order to fund his Canada dream. And while I do support universal healthcare, there are costs that are worse than one can imagine. Don’t trust Northern Light. What he doesn’t tell you is there is a booming business in imigrating Canada’s more problematic health problems to here. And it will be interesting if O changes the NAFTA program. Canada can lose many jobs.

Oct 17, 2008 - 6:58 am 48. dan:

Jim –

the hateful rhetoric from our side? are you kidding me? What mass insanity prevents you and your crowd from appreciating the insane venom and the incredible public attention of *your* rhetoric?

i voted for gore in 2000. i was barely politically conscious; i just thought the late clinton years were fine, why change? well, things changed. among them, more depressing by far, was the overnight transformation of most of my acquaintances into ravening bush-haters who, if you ever dared to bring it up, had nothing but excuses for the jihad – which of course doesnt really exist; its just criminals, you know, justifiably angry at us – and for saddam hussein.

blood for oil? bush lied people died? endless ENDLESS coverage of abu ghraib, which wouldn’t count for anything among the routines of 75% of the earth’s countries?

you guys love saying “WHERE ARE THE WMDS, EH BOOSH!?!?!”

Well WHERE IS THE F*CKING OIL!?

i mean, you have to be kidding me about the “rhetoric.” it’s your side’s “rhetoric” that proves i can’t trust you. you people know *nothing* about *anything* that supposedly so passionately concentrates your attention and your intense moral sensibilities. you people are a joke, you are dupes – you’ve been tricked by your stupidity and venality into fighting your own country just because you don’t like a guy who never mastered public speaking and because he is and is friends with “the rich.”

do you have any idea how rich pelosi and kennedy and a huge number of the rest of the democrats are? i don’t even know any republicans, and almost everyone i know is rich by most standards. it’s like you people don’t even understand how the words coming out of your mouths relate to the actual world in which you live. this is why the prospect of an obama victory freaks the rest of us out: it’s like all anyone had to do was tell you Hey I Hate George Bush As Much As You Do! and you’re like Well You Shall Be Our President!

and you think you people believe in peace? right, like lenin’s “visions of peace…through mists of hatred.” HATRED is your obvious animating emotion here, you degenerates.

and the media can just go on and the democrats can just go on providing you a distorted version of reality that – isn’t this curious? – happens to militate against the actual natural interests of the USA, including your own. just what in the hell is wrong with you people?

Oct 17, 2008 - 6:59 am 49. Alice O'Finnegan:

One reason I left Canada in the first place is the backward, leftist thinking so prominent there. An Obamanation will not be anything like Canada. Obamanation will be a cross between Mugabe’s Zimbabwe and Putin’s Russia. Criminal corruption will rule, but leftist functionaries will be allowed to run roughshod over the economy. Racist race-baiters like Wright, Sharpton, Jackson, etc. will also be allowed their “payback.”

Should Obamanation be put in place by ACORN and other fraudsters plus a number of real-life chumpsters, several US states with less intrusive government will probably receive productive population from other states. Internal migration.

Oct 17, 2008 - 7:02 am 50. cedarhill:

The Democratic checklist in the run up for the 2010 mid-term elections:
1. start the next Congress on an “emergency crisis” mode.
2. suspend the Senate filibuster rule if they lack a filibuster-proof margin
3. Pass the fairness doctrind
4. pass hate-speech expansion
5. pass an emergency budget which repeals the Bush tax cuts and implements Obama’s spending and tax plans
6. renew the ban on off shore drilling
7. renew the ban on oii shale drilling
8. have EPA declare CO2 a pollutant
9. pass emergency save the planet laws to circumvent the regulatory process due to CO2 being a pollutant
10. pass elimination of the secret ballot for unionization
11. pass stringent gun registration and safety laws along with heavy yearly taxes on gun ownership
12. pass reform education laws to instill Ayers views of education
13. pass slave reparations (just kidding but believable)
14. re-order foreign relations (too long to list but you get the drift)
15. revise election finance laws (want to guess how that will turn out)
16. expand Fannie and Freddie or replace them with a new super-FanFred
17. Appoint replacements for Sup.Ct. Justices Stevens, Ginsberg and any other left leaning justice to insure a Left court for decades
18. pass cap and trade instead of carbon tax since its easier to reward friends and expand government
19. pass requirement that all cars be less than 600 pounds (just kidding, but close) and eliminate gasoline as a fuel for cars.
20. Repeal federal Christmas holiday and replace with a floating Religion Day

And the list goes on, and on, and on. Obtw, national health care and whatever else any Democrat feels like taking over.

The objective will be to enact enough measures to insure only Democrats are electable in 2010. Then use the two years after the 2010 election to set up Obama to act under further emergency powers even to the point of suspending the duration of campaigns – limiting the election cycle to only perhaps two weeks.

Dreams of fathers indeed.

Oct 17, 2008 - 7:03 am 51. BlueMax372:

The next Republican leaders to emerge from this election cycle, regardless of who wins the election, are clearly Sarah Palin and Bobby Jindal, both obviously conservatives. We could make our distaste for the Marxist regime known by producing and widely displaying “Palin / Jindal 2012″ bumper stickers. Also popular would be “Is is 2013 yet?” bumper stickers.

Oct 17, 2008 - 7:03 am 52. Frank D. Banta:

Regardless of who wins, Conservatives have one over-riding responsibility: to restore the Constitution of the United States (COTUS). Every federal officer is required to swear a sacred oath to ‘preserve, protect, and defend the COTUS from all enemies foreign and domestic’. We must hold each of them to their oath, and prosecuted them to the fullest extent of the law when they fail to do so.

The COTUS restricts the authority of each branch of government, and clearly defines the authority of each. If it isn’t listed in the COTUS, the authority does not exist, and cannot be exercised.

Clearly there is no authority in the COTUS to ‘interpret it in terms of modern culture’ as exemplified by the oath required to hold federal office.

Like any contract, it is only as good as it’s defense. As Conservatives, we MUST defend it against all who have, will, or want, to circumvent it. Liberty is what defines the uniqueness of America, and it is the Constitution that assures our Liberty.

Most of what is wrong in America today is the result of subversion of the COTUS, and can be rectified only by restoring the COTUS to it’s rightful place as the foundation of American government and protector of American Liberty.

Oct 17, 2008 - 7:08 am 53. Keith_Indy:

Alaska or Texas would be good moves. But there are plenty of free (or freer) states left.

But we’ll probably stay here in Indiana, and work to get the local GOP in a better position to win elections and truly represent a better brand of politics.

Oct 17, 2008 - 7:09 am 54. Sheila:

Jarhead – I wouldnt be too quick to move to Ireland. We just had a pretty rubbish 2009 Budget announced. In addition you’ll be paying about $8 a gallon at the pump.

Oct 17, 2008 - 7:16 am 55. Tinfoil Hatter:

To easy to fisk, but lets do it, shall we?

“Ten reasons why American conservatives wouldn’t like it here in Canada.

1. Universal healthcare”

Which the architect of the system says is unsustainable, and is only on life support because of
a. the high price of oil, and thusly revenues from the Prairies.
b. the hidden subsidies from the US in terms of R&D and other Tier I technologies that the Canadians don’t pay for, but which they enjoy the benefit.

“2. Gun control”
So what? The vaunted gun registry hasn’t affected the crime rate in Canada, which is a function of societal factors rather than the availability of weapons, which is easier in Canada than in many places like Washington D.C., Chicago, and New York.

“4. In spite of #’s 2 & 3 a lower crime rate.”

Asked and answered.

“5. Real honest to goodness socialists”

As opposed to William Ayers, et al? The Democrats in the US are actually socialists, but are constrained by political reality from achieving most of their platform.

“6. Decriminalization of marijuana (coming soon)”

Functionally occuring in most places in the U.S., including Texas cities.

“7. Welfare without humiliation.”

Heard of a Dignity Card? Most welfare benefits are dispensed direct deposit to a .gov debit card. Anyway, I’ve lived here 34 years, and I’ve never seen any welfare receiptant being publically heckled. However, I wholely support such heckling, if it removed them from the rolls.

“8. No walls to keep foreigners out”

Er, your foreingners are us. However, if things are so bad here in the States as you imagine, I’m shocked the Canadian Forces aren’t machinegunning American economic migrants at the Ambassador Bridge. Like our health care, our immigration policy (throughly broken) serves as a subsidy to the Mexican government for their corruption, poor governance, and a-hem, decades of socialist economic policies.

“9. Our Conservative government is almost socialistic”

Yes and no. They do seem to tacking to a much more assertive foreign policy, and rearming the CF, which was highly overdue.

“10. Same-sex marriage is legal here.”

As it is here, is certain jurisdictions (CT most recently.) However, we have an ACTUAL Federal system here, which means that this is ultimately a states’ rights issue. Anyway, the standard lifestyle for gay Americans is such that they don’t seem to be leaving in droves for Canada.

I guess I just don’t get the need for Canadians to demonstrate their “superiority” over Americans. Of course, had I made my country into a chateau for terrorists, I’d be trying to deflect attention to that.

Oct 17, 2008 - 7:17 am 56. George:

We can joke all we want but this is a very sad state we are in. The stage is being set for what is 100 times worse than a Jimmy Carter 4 years. Just look at what is being said by the left about an average citizen Joe the Plumber! All the signs of a socialist to a fascist state is in the works. Media and books will be suppressed and burned with opposing views, voter fraud and hate. I am truly scared now. I love this country and I feel an overwhelming urge to do more but am at a loss. Thank you MSM for the lies and deceit. Oh, what is my opinion worth? Nothing as a college educated, tax paying, working 40% disabled Navy Vet

Oct 17, 2008 - 7:23 am 57. ridesagain48:

Here is a major paradox for the public to grasp. Continuing down the current path of mindless government and its mismanagement of the economy, will eventually lead to the forced nationalization of big chunks of industries; in cascade, in panic to attempt its heroic rescue (as already pledged with banking sector). USA will be “saved” by those who caused the disaster (not an innocent error) at the price of yielding the state full control over everything, a far cry from freedom and free market era. Obama the leftist will save us and restore the american dream.

Oct 17, 2008 - 7:27 am 58. JimCo:

Though the immediate consequences would be extremely painful (see cedarhill above), a McCain defeat could be the best thing to happen to the Republican Party since 1994. Barack Obama’s achilles heel is that his policies will lengthen and deepen the recession, and Americans aren’t going to have patience with ongoing economic distress the way they did in the ’30s.

By 2012, Obama will be as popular as Hoover, and we will be able to replace him and most of the Democratic constituency in Congress with anyone we want. Then we will be able to carry out the true conservative revolution that eluded us in both 1980 and 1994 because we couldn’t get control of both branches of government at the same time.

We need to focus on two things: 1) candidates and organization for 2010 and 2012, and 2) ensuring that there is absolutely no Republican participation of any kind in any measure taken by the Democrat-controlled government. We must ensure that 100% of the blame for the coming fiasco rests on their shoulders.

The American people are basically conservative; they just aren’t thinking clearly right now because of the financial panic and because the media has saturated them with absurd euro-socialist ideas. Once the fog of the panic clears and the failure of euro-socialism is obvious (which won’t take long), they will be ready to sweep away the last vestiges of 20th century liberalism. This is not the New Deal’s new dawn but its last gasp. As jvon said, Obama is Carter in 1976, not Reagan in 1980. It is our job to figure out who the new Reagan will be and prepare the path for him or her in 2012.

Oct 17, 2008 - 7:31 am 59. Jarhead:

Sheila: I care about that – the corp I work for won’t. They care about the $400 million in income taxes they pay annually. Cutting them in half or more with a few tens of millions in legal and relocation costs will be tempting to our Directors.

Oct 17, 2008 - 7:41 am 60. tim maguire:

Hopefully, the Republican party will do the same thing whether McCain wins or loses–go back to first principles and rebuild the party into something that stands for the people who vote for it. It doesn’t require the issues of Reagan, but Reagan didn’t require the issues of Reagan either. It requires the ideals of Reagan.

And the think tanks need to rebuild the Republican farm system, which has been decaying since the mid-90’s so that there are very few real leaders in the party any more. I’m hoping Palin and Jindel are the wave of the future, but the Republicans many need more of them.

They won’t riot and spend a lot of time challenging the results. First because, as you point out, they have jobs. But second because it’s simply not in the nature of a conservative. Conservatives have too much respect for democracy to do that. That crap is all the projection of liberals who need to believe that conservatives would do it to excuse the fact that liberals do it.

Oct 17, 2008 - 7:48 am 61. Sue:

NEVER!

Oct 17, 2008 - 7:54 am 62. RE:

58. JimCo:

How much more difficult will it be for Conservatives to operate once more ‘the constitution is optional’ types of Supreme Court Judges get appointed?

We may be looking at a coup here – one that dramatically undermines our Constitutional protections and subordinates US law and sovereignty to the ‘International Court’ – and one that turns a blind eye to corruption that suits their agenda – like that practiced by ACORN, or speech suppression though something modeled after Canada’s Human Rights Commission thought police.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Focus on the here and now. Concede nothing.

Oct 17, 2008 - 7:54 am 63. wGraves:

It will be interesting to see what happens when Mr. Obama doubles or triples the capital gains tax. The last time I looked, two times zero was equal to three times zero, which was still zero. Just the anticipation of Mr. Obaba’s possible victory is trashing the markets.

Oct 17, 2008 - 8:01 am 64. Zeno:

The American people are fed up and want change and its coming guys

Reading the comments of obamists, I’m kind of reminded of the Chinese Cultural Revolution… These human spambots just spill out slogans, but not a single real thought. It’s sad, really, that years of public education and media brainwash ended up in this.

Oct 17, 2008 - 8:02 am 65. jb:

We’re not going to win anything till something is done about the MSM and Hollywood. That is one hell of a weapon the Democrats have. Having Fox News and talk radio can’t even compare to the complete power of the combined MSM. Just think about Obama having a half hour of primetime for an infomercial. I know McCain might have been able to do it too but they would have come up with something to stop it. The libs will argue with me about the real bias of the MSM but you conservatives know what I’m talking about. Now we can fight back with boycotts and by withholding our hard earned dollars but I don’t think that will be enough. So I’m open to suggestions. Libs need not reply.

Oct 17, 2008 - 8:04 am 66. WA NEOCON:

To All,
What we need to be most concerned about is Obama’s statement “to fundamentally change the way we operate”. The fundamentals are the bedrock of a free democracy. Constitution, Bill of Rights, Rule of Law. You can only hope that if Obama wins, enough outrage from conservatives can stem the “changes” that will occur.

Oct 17, 2008 - 8:15 am 67. WA NEOCON:

Also,

Awaiting my share of wealth redistribution……

Oct 17, 2008 - 8:16 am 68. Sandy Salt:

JimCo said it correctly, but I disagree with the immediate return of the Republican party because the current crop have betrayed the party’s principles and the American people. The current group are just Old Time Democrats and not true conservatives. We need people that are going to do something about run away spending and government growth. We can’t make the same mistake as 1994, where we thought we were electing card carrying conservatives only to find out that they were just career politicians looking to line their pockets like Democarats had for thrity plus years. I say no to blindly electing Republicians back in. The American people deserve better. We need a new party or branch that is truly conservative and will be held accountable for their actions. They must truly hold and abide by conservative ideals. That is why this country is currently in the mess that it is because Republicans completely abandoned their conservative roots and acted like Democrats. I say no more, we need to clean up Washington by flushing the lobbyists and career politicians from both parties. We need to elect true conservatives whether part of a new Conservative party or part of the each of the old parties because believe it or not there are still some conservative Democrats out there.

People, who will join me in forcing real reform in Washington and bringing this country back under control? Who wants to cut government spending and pay off the national debt? Who wants lower taxes once the other things have been done? Wouldn’t it be nice to not leave our kids $20 Trillion in debt? Yeah I know we are only $10 Trillion now, but by 2012 you can count on it being $20 Trillion. Also, has anyone asked Obama where his spending cuts are going to come? The answer is the same place Clinton’s came from the military and you saw how that turned out. Join the new Conservative party and bring back the American Dream.

Oct 17, 2008 - 8:16 am 69. Bob L.:

By the way, looking at scary scenarios; pres. Obama, disarms the public,and imposes his didain for the 2nd amendment or Right to Bear Arms. An unarmed populace is in no position to rebel against a tyrannical government, which is a big reason our founding fathers created a 2nd amendment in the first place Look at history. And remember to note to anyone who says “you don’t need a gun for personal protection, you call 911″ that when seconds count, the police are only minutes away! NRA folks, of which I am one, this is no election to be lazy about voting!

Oct 17, 2008 - 8:18 am 70. Michael:

No one hates other people they don’t know like liberals. You guys probably drop any friends who you find are conservatives like hot potatoes. I am sure you try not to even know anyone who is a conservative if you can help it.

How did a segment of our country become so warped? I mean there have always been some on both sides like this but now it seems to be nearly half the population. Such hate can only lead to dictatorship. Some of you guys sound like Hootoes and Tutsies. That is who this is the first election that frightens me. You guys really do want to take the vote and choice away from half the population.

Oct 17, 2008 - 8:19 am 71. Mugwump:

2012 is the end of the Mayan calendar and a planetary alignment year. 2012 is a very bad year according to Nostradamus. The Battle of Armageddon will take place in the 4th year of the reign of the Antichrist/Beast according to the bible. I’m just sayin’.

Oct 17, 2008 - 8:25 am 72. always right:

To 35. Rotwang:
According to the Advance Transition Plan, it looks as though most of you will be treated fairly well, and we are planning only modest adjustments to the Bill of Rights, primarily intended to clarify and shorten it to a reasonable length.

Yeah, the ‘95% of Americans won’t see a change coming’.

Until everybody is in the 5% camp.

/yours is the driest form of satire

Oct 17, 2008 - 8:26 am 73. crafty b:

Ahhh.. the poor Conservatives.

I find it HILARIOUS that all the Conservative writers are trying desparately to slink away from the carcass of the Republican party without any of the stench following them. Sorry guys, you are WAAAAAY to responsible for the failures of the Republicans to sneak out the back door, creek around to the front, and join the awakend masses in chanting “throw the bums out!”. It just aint gonna work. YOU voted for all these Republicans in massive numbers, YOU will not be able to whistle & walk slowly away from the carnage.

It’s also pretty funny that the only thing the Right Wing pundits have left is to scream “RADICAL SOCIALISTS!!” at anyone who’s not a wrong-headed stubborn supporter of the Republican party that’s driven the government bus off the cliff. This article is a perfect examply. It opens up by calling Barack Obama and his supporters (currently over 50 percent of the electorate according to most polls, mind you) “Radical Socialists” and then goes on to excuse the Conservative movement from.. well.. everything. No new ideas. No plans for the future. No nothing. Just name calling for the other side and excuse-making for yourself.

It’s the same thing on ALL the Right-wing radio shows and all the Right-wing columnists. You guys are stuck on a ship without a rutter (which YOU broke yourself) and you are just pointing your fingers everywhere else. It’s not gonna save your sorry tuckus, dude.

The opening quote says something to the effect that the incumbent party is smug and the minority insane. This article somehow manages to be both.

Oct 17, 2008 - 8:27 am 74. fred:

I am still trying to figure out if the nation has indeed become a center-LEFT country. So far, I think it has, which does not portend well for our future. What we have going here is the fusion of the Baby Boomlet Generation (18-30 years old) and the Leftist portion of the Older Cohort of the Baby Boomer Generation. The Younger Cohort of the Baby Boomer Generation (of which I am one)and GenX are pretty much center-RIGHT. The WWII/Great Depression Generation, the “Reagan Democrats,” are dying off in buckets. So, what is replacing them are the Leftist Baby Boomlet kids. And there you have pretty much all you need to know about what is going on.

The Baby Boomlet Generation have been more intensely indoctrinated in the schools and universities than GenX was.

So, the really important question is: can significant numbers of that generation become disillusioned with socialism as people like me eventually were? Do enough of them have the kinds of minds that are open to experience and more learning?

I don’t know the answer to those questions. The next four years will clarify a lot of things.

Meanwhile, those of us who are center-RIGHT are not going to go away. We are not going to riot. We would only take up arms in the event of a really serious Constitutional crisis. They myth about us right wingers is that we are violent, knuckledragging hayseeds, but many of us, like myself, have advanced degrees. We have jobs, families, responsibilities. We have a life. We have our priorities straight.

And that is why the outrage over the destruction of Joe the Plumber by these chekists should reach into your souls. Be very afraid of what these Marxists are about to do to the nation.

Oct 17, 2008 - 8:36 am 75. always right:

Three words: Supreme Court Justices, (yeah, plural). For the next whole generation (~ 30 years).

The immediate disater we could (probably) weather. But if you think Ruth Bader Gingsburg is the most unqualified and worst justice ever, think whom Obama could put forth?

Imagine the ‘fairness’ litmus test from President Obama.

Oct 17, 2008 - 8:44 am 76. Aiala:

There really is no “Republican” party any more. All the respectable thinking conservatives –Christo Buckley et al– have bailed. It’s time to come up with a new name for the party.

How about “Theocratic Knuckledraggers”?

~A~

Oct 17, 2008 - 8:44 am 77. crafty b:

Barack Obama’s a RADICAL SOCIALIST!!! OH MY GAAAWD!!!

He wants to increase the top marginal tax rate on individuals and corporations by 3%.. That’s soooo RADICAL!!!

He plans to allow capital gains to revert to their pre-2003 levels. I remember what this country was like before 2003. Do you? If not, let me tell you, it was absolute RADICAL SOCIALISM!! Oh my gaaaaawd, that 20% capital gains rate we had in the 90’s just KILLED our economy. Thank Goodness the 15% rate we’ve enjoyed since 2003 has allowed for the current spectacular state of our economy!!! How un-Radically Socialist we are today thanks to that!! Whew!

He plans to invest in our country’s infrastructure, like Eisenhower. Eisenhower was a RADICAL SOCIALIST nut!!! And on energy, he wants a program similar to the Apollo Program, but for alternative energy. What a RADICAL SOCIALIST kook!!! You remember that Apollo Program? That was a total failure and a socialist boondoggle if ever there was one!!

OH…. MY….. GAWWWWWD!!!!! I’m hyperventillating!!! This country is done!! Over 50% of us are looking like we may vote for a Democrat!!! (read: RADICAL SOCIALISTS, ALL OF THEM!!))

Oh my gawd, oh my gawd, oh my gawd!!!! I need to move to a country run by good, ideologically sound Conservatives… Saudi Arabia, here I come!!!!

Oct 17, 2008 - 8:44 am 78. Sandy Salt:

Crafty, you miss the point entirely. True conservatives are not right wingers as the left has labeled everyone that doesn’t agree with them. True conservatives are the ones that want smaller government and lower taxes. There are conservatives in both parties they are now called moderates because the socialist and the theocrats have taken over the Democrats and the Republicans respectfully. I want to bring the country back to the middle with a government of fiscal responsibility and much smaller scope. The federal government has been so deep into local issues that we have forgotten that we used to push back against government control of everything. Of course no one is Washington wants this because if they aren’t allowed to bribe people with money how will they ever stay in power. The Democrats have known this for a long time and now the Republicans are doing it too. This isn’t helping America!!! We need to cut spending and pay off the national debt. If you and the people around you want something then you should vote on a local or state bond to pay for it and not expect the federal government to pay. Sure we need the feds to pay for road improvements to the interstates, which comes from a gas tax, but we don’t need to be building bridges and roads to no where just so some crooked politician can get re-elected (Byrd-WV, Stevens-AK)

Oct 17, 2008 - 8:48 am 79. DaMan Conners:

I can’t see Obama winning. When that curtain closes too many facts are in the way to vote for him. Example even now he still claims he was never a socialist and never a member of the socialist new party that was formed by the Democratic Socialists of America. Discovered yesterday at Amazon.com’s internet archive is the socialist party’s own site showing it all. Read it and pass it on as I’ve found that when you ask 85% of Americans (even Democrats) if they would ever actively vote for a socialist for the Presidency, they say no. Show the article and the conversion to logic arrives. This can be the smoking gun McCain needs. Click my name for the article and discuss here. I really can’t see this not helping McCain.

Oct 17, 2008 - 8:59 am 80. crafty b:

“78. Sandy Salt:

Sandy,
True conservatives may SAY they want all those things, but talk is cheap. The VOTE for Republicans in massive numbers. They VOTE for deficits (supposedly NOT a Conservative value). They VOTE for an imperialistic military stance (supposedly NOT a Conservative value). They VOTE for politicians who spy on us and give us the USAPatriot Act (supposedly NOT a Conservative value). They VOTE for politicians who block efforts to realistically give us a domestically supportable energy system (supposedly NOT a Conservative value).

If Conservatives were truly about budgets, personal freedoms, modern isolationism of foreign policy, and Domestic economic reliability and not Right Wing zealots who vote on social issues and fear, then in 2000 and 2004 and now, in 2008, they would have looked at the history of Reagan/Bush/Bush II vs. Clinton and switched in massive numbers to the Democratic party. But they’re NOT. They’re STILL voting for these Republicans in massive numbers. So you can SAY Conservatives are about something different than the Republican Party, but until you VOTE as though that’s true, then it’s all a line of BS meant to shift blame for Republican failures away from yourselves.

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:01 am 81. CatholicDemocrat:

“Reagan’s principles are still sound…”

Riiiiight.

Just like the “Bush Doctrine” (whatever it is) is still sound.

Let’s hope that ALL the far right’s specious “principles” lie in ruins after November 4.

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:02 am 82. Jason:

The country is turning liberal. That is the direction, make no mistake. Conservatives are facing a demographic winter that will last for a very, very long time.

And I could not be happier at such a thought.

Obama is not perfect (no one is, especially politicians) and I have no doubt that there are better choices available, but McCain and Palin are truly, disturbingly, absolutely frightening. Anyone who thinks otherwise must either be an idiot or have industrial-strength conservative blinders on.

McCain/Palin would indeed NOT be another four years of the same Hell…it would be much, much worse.

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:05 am 83. WA NEOCON:

Crafty b-(onehead),

Why is it that since 2006 when Democrats took over in the House and Senate that the economy has tanked? Of course you wouldn’t take any responsibility as Liberals don’t udnerstand that concept. I concede we should have cut spending much more and not pandered to the welfare state of the Democrats. But every shred of evidence tells us that this current economic mess is and was a Democratic/Liberal nightmare at all levels. Can you say Franklin Raines, Jim Johnson, Tim Howard, Barney Frank, Dodd, etc.

Wake up and smell the coffee!!! When was the last job created by a tax increase? Obama economics will drive this country into the ground. But of course that would be fine for someone wanting a nanny state like most lazy libs!!

Awaiting my share of wealth redistribution.

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:07 am 84. steve:

WTF….don’t come here!!!!

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:10 am 85. jim:

that first bad piece of socialist legislation was the wall street bailout asked for and signed by bush and supported by many congressional republicans. try acting like real, intelligent conservatives instead of the palin conservatives of ignorance and personal attacks.

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:16 am 86. Bob L.:

As I read these comments, it seems the liberal folks are foaming at the mouth about conservative points of view, i.e. smaller government, lower taxes and more incentives for people to work to better their situation, not remain status quo through the ever burgeoning largesse of a BIGGER GOVERNMENT. I’m 67, have Social Security, always had decent jobs that I worked hard for and at to better myself. The bottom line is that I now work at 3 different temp jobs to keep myself above water; with all these obama spending sprees, how can i fit in a fourth or fifth job to “help spread the wealth”. Get off your lazy — and work hard like millions of us now do.

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:19 am 87. CatholicDemocrat:

crafty b !

Perfectly said.

The right wingers are proud to own their identity when they’re successful at bamboozling the electorate with their greed-laden schemes.

But when their policies are exposed for the craven shams that they are, then these “conservatives” go running for cover like rats from a ship.

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:25 am 88. MikeD:

crafty b states “You guys are stuck on a ship without a rutter” and then bloviates at #77. Getting back on track against intelligence like this may be easier than we previously thought. I’m not sure why people like crafty are so intent on appearing stupid but they never cease to disappoint.

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:25 am 89. Smarter:

Crying.

Dismal.

Racist.

Whining.

Right-wing.

Get over it and help get the country back on solid footing. This “essay” was blithering and a big whine fest IMHO.

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:26 am 90. Sandy Salt:

Crafty,
You are right about the true conservatives mistakenly voting with the Republican party because we believed they better represented the idea of lower taxes and smaller government, but never carried through. Also, how can they switch to the Democratic Party when the have been driven so far to the left? Gore? Kerry? Please. They still want to raise taxes and put the government in charge of the atmosphere. You are right in saying that conservatives are leaving the stinking republican mess behind because what choice do we have. Republicans turned into Democrats, so we need a new conservative party plain and simple. No conservative will ever vote Democrat as long as you want to raise taxes to spend on socialist programs such as federal government run health care, so we can have another Social Security albatross around our kids necks. Some conservatives are also social conservatives that want a theocracy, but that is not the foundations of this country and they can feel free to keep the Republican moniker. I am for a conservative government that is responsible for federal issues and not local ones to include education. You want good schools then pay for them locally and not from federal tax dollars (another Democratic plank, which no true conservative can abide). Why is the federal government so involved in our schools because we let them bribe us with money to bow to their will, but funny thing is that when we do they take the money away NCLB my ass.

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:26 am 91. RE:

82. Jason

Everything the government touches turn to crap. They are the worst value you could hope to find for your dollar (oh right, it’s not your dollar, but someone else’s that you want to spend).

Expect the rest of the country start turning into Michigan, but instead of companies fleeing to other states, they’ll flee to other countries or just shut down. Just watch.

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:26 am 92. ReaganConservative:

Vote for Barack Obama: It’s much easier than working.
Let’s spread the wealth around–punish those mean nasty rich people. Shame on them for working hard and being successful.

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:31 am 93. Sandy Salt:

Jim,
You hit it on the head. Bush and a bunch of the current Republicans voted for this pork filled bailout, which is 100% contrary to the conservative idea and is pure socialism. There were a few true conservatives of both parties that held strong and voted no, but they were over taken by politicians that could be bought with pork.

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:31 am 94. Chaz:

Last time we had this was FDR. We still haven’t undone all the damage FDR did, and now we’re facing this.

Oh, and about not leaving our grandkids 20 trillion in debt, make that 46 trillion because Medicare and Social security will fail too with the unfunded liabilities, changing demographics, and possibly the mass amnesty of illegals (which could balloon that figure to 60 trillion). Yeah… I’m going to be the one to pay most of that (I’m 23. I start getting to the age where I collect RIGHT at that time). I’m a college student. The only way I could own a gun is if I built one myself (anyone got a lathe and a mill? I’m technically minded enough to do it, but I lack the tools). My mother being from South Korea would rather take a 9mm round to the head than live with communism (but she’d probably rather be putting 9mm rounds in communists heads first) and I would rather join her.

If you doubt my numbers you can look them up

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:31 am 95. crafty b:

83. WA NEOCON:

Crafty b-(onehead),

Awaiting my share of wealth redistribution.

Oct 17, 2008 – 9:07 am

Seriosly??? You’re gonna blame the current economic situation on the fact that the Democrats have had a slight majority in congress since January 2007? Really? Honestly? What, exactly, has the Democratically controlled congress done in the past 20 months that has caused the current financial crisis? Please, explain that to me because you’re not really making much sense.

So this has nothing to do with deregulation? With Fed Policy? With our $10 trillion deficit?

In case you didn’t notice, real estate was already cratering and the Dollar was getting trashed in December of 2006, when Republicans were still very much in control of Congress (not to mention the White House).

Unlike you, I am capable of seeing fault in my own party. I think Democrats (and Bill Clinton is high on the list) do share some of the blame for the current economic situation. But mostly because they cowtowed to Republican party principals on economic matters too much over the last 20 years.

And your right. A tax increase doesn’t create a job. But improving our infrastructure creates millions of jobs. Retooling our energy structure to work on domestically produced sources creates millions of jobs. Balancing the budget strengthens the dollar (creating wealth for Americans).

And while we’re doing “when was the last time”, when was the last time our President/Congress cut taxes in a time of war? When was the last time a President said “go shopping” as a rallying cry to support war? When was the last time we went to war with no effort to pay for it? SOMEBODY’S gotta pay for this crap, NEOCON. Nobody wants to pay more taxes, but I’m willing to do so so that my kids won’t live in a bankrupted country, mmmkay? How Conservative of you to foist today’s Republican debt-spending spree on our Grandkids. That’s some real principled Conservatism for you, alright.

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:33 am 96. JMH:

Does anyone else think maybe both camps are half-right? That some elements of the “true conservative” platform and some elements of the “let’s get along moderates” platform both turn off voters? That a winning Republican candidate rejects the dumb parts of both factions? And a losing candidate embraces the dumb parts of both?

I mean, look. Most people these days vote based on fear. People vote for Republicans when they’re afraid Democrats will raise tax rates to 123% and surrender to the French, and they vote for Democrats when they’re afraid Republicans will outlaw sex and good music. Yes, those are (to a degree) exaggerations to make a point.

And the point is, losing Republican candidates do two things: they emphasize government-sponsered morality programs that make voters fear they will impose neo-puritanism, and they take moderate positions on spending and isolationism that make voters fear they’ll help Democrats raise tax rates and sacrifice national security.

Winning Republicans take positions that emphasize personal (as opposed to government-imposed) social responsibility, absolute fiscal conservatism, and robust national defense. That’s the formula. That’s what two-thirds of the American electorate wants (the other third is the Democrat base, and they are either self-destructively insane or ignorant).

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:33 am 97. WA NEOCON:

Jason,

Another liberal with no concept of a free and open democracy. When the day arrives that you can explain to me that government can efficiently run anything is the day I listen to you. Big government is nothing but a disaster. And having Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and countless other radical leftists running unchecked along with a leftist court system will spell the end of the Republic as we know it. Get off the weed and read!!!

Awaiting my share of wealth redistribution……

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:35 am 98. A Clay:

We may not go to Canada, but we are talking about going John Galt!

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:36 am 99. JesusWuta40oz:

Wow, way to be a crying little bitch when it comes to change in this country. Whine whine whine, this is the ebb and flow of the world GET OVER YOURSELF! if you don’t want to live in this country IF Obama wins..FINE leave..I don’t give a crap. I see Palin and McCain supporters shouting the same saying at pro-Obama supporters. Well it works both ways, if you want to blame anybody for the WEAK political position YOUR in…you need only to look at the white-house and the people running it. Last time I checked they were YOUR party and your ideas. If were in such a bad mess right now then it goes to show the flaws in the R-party ideals. [Throws you all the middle finger]

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:37 am 100. radical_moderate:

“Regrettably, that is likely to be the first moment this utter disaster for the country will become real to millions of conservatives.”
——————————-
Here is the ultimate mind blower of a question Mr.Hawkins, wonder if an Obama Presidency isn’t a “disaster?” Wonder if Obama makes the perfect storm; that is he forms a coalition with Conservatives (think Chuck Hagel as SOD, and a prominent place for the more conservative Dick Luger with whom Obama has worked on legislation.) Wonder if Obama’s middle-class tax cuts actually work by boosting spending in the American Marketplace?

Then what my friends? Here is MY advice: refashion conservatism, push it toward Libertarism, and AWAY from the sort of Governmental interference in private matters that has come to pass most notably in the Bush era, I speak of not only tax and Business policy, or in the outrageous ratching up of surveillance via the Patriot Act, but also in areas such as the failed Drug War Policies pushed by BOTH
Parties that has crushed the 4th Amendment, and stomped on Civil Rights with nary a whimper from many prominent Conservatives (excepting the excellent William F. Buckley of course), jettison the dependance on the hyper religious right, and realize that Conservatism should be a “Big Tent” ideology without a Christian based litmus test for membership, finally listen to Ross Douthat and others that proselytise that the GOP needs to appeal to Average Americans, the appeal based on the “culture war” has stopped working, so spell out WHY working people should give a rat’s patoot about a Conservatism that pays lip service to economic rights “for all Americans,” when, in fact, it appears that some Americans economic rights (the wealthy) are “more equal” than others to the Conservative hierarchy.

Your movement CAN be reborn AB (After Bush) but you need some fresh blood, some intelligent thinkers who ponder ideology OUT of the Box (there are such thinkers about, Andrew Bacevich, Kevin Phillips, and Douthat, etc., that need to speak with a louder voice to overcome the hysteria of that right wing Cassandra, Michelle Malkin, the canned bloviating to bigotry that defines blowhards, and anti-intellectuals, such as Rush and Hannity, and reject the swarminess of a Bill Kristol ideology that oozes cynical opportunism.)

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:40 am 101. CatholicDemocrat:

ReaganConservative’s mathematics: wealthy people = hard working people

Yeah….that sure fits the AIG execs toning themselves up at the spa while counting their bailout checks.

Right wing myth-spinners would have it that wealth and success are a product of hard work and ingenuity. Too often, the reality is that wealth and success result from privilege and exploitation.

Let’s recover a vision where the person to be respected is the hard-working union gal or guy, NOT the Wall Street fat cat.

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:43 am 102. Mike:

Obama will more like James Buchanan than Carter, I think….whoever succeeds Obama if elected will take office as the continued existence of the Republic itself is in question.

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:44 am 103. crafty b:

86. Bob L.:

Oct 17, 2008 – 9:19 am

Bob… please name the last Republican President that made government smaller. Please. Do so.

How many Republicans Presidential terms of growing government (although not paying for it) will it take for you to stop believing it. How many? We’ve had 5 Republican Presidential terms in a row now of running up stunning deficits, GROWING government while leaving the tab to our grandkids, so how many will it take before you stop buying the rhetoric? 7? 10? 15?

You’re a pretty seasoned guy. Do you remember “labor vs. capital”. A guy like you (labor) used to know which side he was on. You say you work 3 jobs? Well where’s the beef then? Why is it that YOU keep working more jobs for less money, but the richest amongst us keep seeing their income increase at double-digit rates per year? Why is a guy like you voting for Capital? Why do you want to help the Robber Barons at your own expense?

You say you have Social Security? That’s going to be fixed income. You know what the Republican’s massive federal debt is going to undeniably result in? The devaluation of the Dollar, that’s what!! YOU’RE fixed income will be worth LESS because of our $10 trillion (and growing) deficit. YOU’RE bankrupting YOURSELF by voting for these Republicans.

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:45 am 104. John:

There’s going to be a civil war in the GOP. We’re already seeing some initial skirmishing by the conservative chattering classes. Initially the far fundamentalist right are going to win this because they are embedded in all the positions of power in the party and in the support apparatus of think tanks and punditry. So what’s going to happen is what’s happened in VA with dire electoral consequences. How long this phase lasts who can tell, it’s been going on in VA for at least ten years. Ultimately, the GOP is going to have to tack back to the middle. They’ve already lost the entire northeast, the entire west coast, the mid west with the exception of a couple of states which are toss ups, and are in the process of losing the southwest and rocky mountain states. Within ten years well over 30% of the electorate will be minority, mainly hispanic and black. If we think the platform of Palin and Gingrich is the future I guess we’re going to have to test that theory. It wont be pretty.

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:45 am 105. jeb:

JesusWuta40oz: “Throws you all the middle finger”

Your a stupid little troll. What happened, did your mom let you use the computer?

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:48 am 106. WA NEOCON:

Crafty,

This example is perfect in showing the level of ignorance of the left. Improving our infrastructure and energy sources sounds great if it is done without government intervention. If you can explain why Ted Kennedy said no to wind power in Massachussets, most all Libs said no to new nuclear power, no new dams for hydro….it’s a joke! The left is run by radical enviromentalists, MoveOn.org and code pink types that only believe that government can solve the worlds problems….. name a single efficiently run program? You think 10 trillion is bad? If you get your way we will be 50 trillion in debt to keep up with Obama’s spending. If we could harness the hot air coming from the Obama campaign we could have enough energy to run everything! What a car salesman! Let the private sector do what it does best, find the most economical, cost effective way to fix the energy problem. Government needs to step aside. How will we pay for this infrastructure and retooling???? TAXES! One job created, many lost….fool.

Still waiting for my share of wealth redistribution……

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:49 am 107. Eric:

I have a crazy (sarc) idea, why don’t we as Conservatives work to reestablish the Constitution as our governing document. Ever since the Civil War the Federal Government has usurped the Constitutional powers of the states. The 10th Amendment places clear limits on the Fed which it ignores on a daily basis. Almost everything the Fed does today is unConstitutional. If we want to be “safe” from a socialist Obama administration and the insane Nancy Pelosi and weak Harry Reid then we must work to return power back to the states. The Founders intended the states to be the laboratories of democracy free to try new ideas and either succeed or fail. Americans also had the freedom to move from state to state to seek relief frmo taxation or social burdens. The states had to compete for residents. With an all powerful Fed there is no escape. Walter Williams has a great article on the efforts going on in Oklahoma to take back their usurped power from the Fed: http://townhall.com/columnists/WalterEWilliams/2008/07/16/oklahoma_rebellion
This needs to be a model for all Red states. Red states also need to resist the efforts of their new Liberal residents fleeing like locusts from the destruction they visited upon their former homes to impose increased taxes and add more social services.

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:51 am 108. Ex-fetus:

Civil War. Coming in the Summer of ‘09. A month or so after Obama brings back the 100,000 combat vets that will join the 100,000 already here plus 66% of the police.
That will be the hard sharp cadre of the next revolution. The boys have learned all sorts of tricks from Al Qaeda. They will teach them to the Socialists. Those that want change will get it.
Deleting a post won’t stop it.

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:51 am 109. crafty b:

“90. Sandy Salt:

Sandy, if you create that party, I might just vote for it. I’m actually prime pickings for a TRULY Conservative government, with some basic social safety nets.

I’m all about TRUE fiscal conservatism, TRULY Conservative foreign policy (meaning a big NO to wars like Iraq), Conservative personal freedoms from Government intrusion… but I DO believe the Government is the best vehicle for social safety nets, like social security and socialized health INSURANCE (not care), and that’s about it. You can’t let old and sick people just “fend for themselves” in a lessaiz-faire, se la vi (sp?) world, and private enterprise just won’t do it because there’s no money in it.

Problem is that 9 out of 10 self-proclaimed Conservatives (including most in here, I’m guessing) are voting for a Republican party that has proven itself as anything but. And that means that the definition of that word has simply changed. Sorry.

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:54 am 110. Sandy Salt:

JMH is completely right and that is why we need a third party that isn’t socialist or theocratic to balance the two we currently have. We need to shoot for the middle and reduce the governments presence in all things. I don’t want a theocracy or euro-socialism. I just want to work and make a better life for my kids and grandkids. I don’t mind paying taxes if I thought the money was not being wasted. I even proposed a 1% federal sales tax that would strictly pay for the debt and absolutely nothing else. Of course no one likes taxes, but if we want a strong economy now that we’ve dug the hole we will have to seriously cut spending and probably raise taxes to some degree, but why don’t we be smart about it and not just give the money to congress to blow on pork. You want sacrifice to support the war then there you have it a 1% federal sales tax that congress can’t touch.

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:58 am 111. WA NEOCON:

Catholic Democrat,

Right wing myth-spinners would have it that wealth and success are a product of hard work and ingenuity. Too often, the reality is that wealth and success result from privilege and exploitation.

Just ask Ted Kennedy and John Kerry…and all the other millionaires in the Congress and Senate that are Democrats. It’s not a party specific ideal to try and be successful. But I will tell you that laziness and lack of inspiration never made a ton of money! You can see that on the streets of Seattle and Portland with so many cardboard signs. You couldn’t give many of those people a job! They don’t want it!

I AM the blue collar worker who went to work for a union and was negotiated a pay cut then laid off while other hard working union members smoked cigs and said to slow down as I was working myself out of job. This and I had to pay $2.00 per hour for such fine representation!!! I swore to never work for a union again. I now make 5 times what I made and no fees! My choice. But I had to get out of the electrical union to do it! I have been all over the world as a navy veteran and no country offers the things this great country does. Even BO has a chance. And you can knock the hard working folks who created such great companies as Microsoft, Boeing, Paccar but don’t believe for a minute that if all that wealth was spread around that in 10 years it would all be back in those hands because of their drive and ingenuity. Socialism is a failed experiment.

Waiting for my share of weatlh redistribution…..

Oct 17, 2008 - 10:04 am 112. Bob L.:

Crafty B. Suppose every president, R or D has favored bigger government. Doesn’t make it right. On the other hand Johnson’s Great Society was very proactive in pushing ever more government largesse. I see the dem’s programs of welfare, etc, as another form of slavery, only this time it’s based on paychecks. I am all for giving people who need a helping everything they need to get on in life. I’m not happy supporting people that can work, but don’t. That’s where big government hand outs destroy incentive. I’m fortunate in the 3 extra jobs I do are things I really want to do, but at times I took jobs I really didn’t want, only because I didn’t feel entitled to get something for nothing, but perhaps I digress…

Oct 17, 2008 - 10:08 am 113. Jeff:

If McCain loses we are in for the longest four (and possibly) eight years this country has ever known. Obama’s leftist illuminati ideals will ruin the very fabric upon which this country was founded.

Oct 17, 2008 - 10:09 am 114. maggie:

The Reagan Revolution was the worst misfortune to hit the United States of America and the country has been paying heavily for it ever since. Reagan brought the downfall of American Democracy. The Newt Gingrich take over of the Congress in 1994 was a disaster, and destroyed the great potential of the Clinton administration. It is time for the Right to realize how very WRONG it is to spout the kind of hate and inhumane nonsense we’ve been forced to swallow over these nearly 30 years. It is time for the people to stand up and revolt. Democrats to the power of ten in 2008.

Oct 17, 2008 - 10:10 am 115. Steve:

Your school system from K 12 through university is cranking out left-handed mediocrities. WHAT DID YOU EXPECT?? would come of that? There is no way to change the direction of your country with that propaganda mill destroying the minds of your children. Forget Hollywood. It’s your schools that are doing you in.

Oct 17, 2008 - 10:12 am 116. cedarhill:

Crafty b. Apt name.

A bit of Federal political history after 1900: Most Federal laws have been the result of compromises between both parties. Rarely has one party all parts of government. Even during the “evil Bush, et al” years, the Senate Democrat minority, were able to shape legislation via the filibuster. Any one of the Bush initiatives the Left complains about could easily have been stopped in the Senate. In you reflective period, you may consider why all the laws that were passed in the last 70 years were passed, given the composition of government.

All Democracies move toward more and greater social programs as do their parties. If you fairly consider what John F. Kennedy proposed and did in his Presidency, you’d have to classify him, in todays political world, as a “Bush-McCain” Republican – ie. a “moderate” Republican today would have been a “progressive” Democrate in the 1950’s.

If you presume Obama wins then for the first time since Reconstruction, we will have Left and far Left controlling and/or running (1) the Presidency, (2) the House, (3) the Senate, (4) the Supreme Court, (5) all departments within the administration. The misused concept of “divided” government will have been tossed aside. The government will move from a marginal center orientation to a Left-to-far Left orientation. If, as I suspect, the Senate suspends the filibuster rule, then what little check that exists in “the system” for minority voters will have been tossed as well.

But, of course, that’s what the Left had worked toward since 1908 (the presumed date of the publication of The Communist Manifesto).

Oct 17, 2008 - 10:15 am 117. Ratatosk:

You know… if it splits into “We were too conservative/not conservative enough” when review comes around, then the GOP will still be confused come 2012.

There are many reasons whay the Dems are gonna take over in November, few of those reasons have to do with conservative thought. Most of those reasons are directly related to the perception that most people have of the past 8 years. The fact that McCain is still within 10 points says a lot about the ’squish’… if we’d had someone more conservative, I think they would be behind by more than 10. Look, like it or not, the GOP was in charge when the Patriot Act was signed. They were in charge when we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. They lined up to tell everyone about WMD’s and backed President Bush. If things had gone well, the GOP would probably be rising in power right now. Instead, it went poorly for several years.

Anytime the party in power screws up, they get replaced. It’s how America usually works. The GOP needs to find a way to untangle itself from the past 8 years.

Personally, I’m big fan of McCain, but I’m not gonna do anything that would potentially put Gov. Palin in the White House. I think that one of the last few polls quoted 1/5 of people that are leaning away from John because of Palin. 1/5… that would close the ~6 point lead a bit. Another subset of indi voters said ‘no’ because of the Obama is a terrorist bulls*it.

If the GOP is gonna do any soul searching in the next four years, they should spend a lot of time asking the American people WHY McCain lost. Not just their party faithful (which, based on the polls looks both sides of ‘party faithful’ are near 35% of the nation at this point), but the independents as well. Up to the point of Gov Palin going on the ticket, I was about 90% sure I’d be voting for McCain. Immediately afetrward, I was concerned and took a wait and see approach. However, I have seen nothing at all in her performances that made me feel comfortable with any chance that she would be President. I don’t like some of the ideas that Obama has, but I personally think, based on the overall campaigns that McCain, Obama and Biden would be acceptable Presidents. Palin? No way. So there it is, some people are voting out the GOP because they didn’t act conservative in office (How many times did they sign off on big spending and big government?), some people are not fans of McCain and/or Palin, some aren’t fans of what they see as mud slinging and some are pissed off at the war/economy/etc.

If the GOP refuses to look at the whole picture and just tries to lean more left or right, they’ll fail again in 2012. If they learn from their mistakes and approach the American people as a party of humbled individuals, seeking to serve the American people… then maybe we’ll get some balance back.

In my opinion, the GOP will be just as responsible for Nov as the Dems, MSM and Acorn.

Oct 17, 2008 - 10:16 am 118. naman:

Just in case, I’m buying lots and lots of ammo. Gotta defend my Constitutional rights ya know…

Oct 17, 2008 - 10:17 am 119. Sandy Salt:

Crafty,
You see that we are not so far apart as it might have first appeared. That is the whole basis of the new party idea. Americans aren’t horrible people and we are willing to compromise on somethings, but we can no longer allow our government to be hijacked by the radicals on the left and right. We as a country have sat back for too long and let Washington drive the bus, while we were preoccupied with lattes and soccer. We need to get involved and force them to be accountable for their actions. We need a new party that will drive the other two back to the middle otherwise we will have this country swinging left and right with each election and that isn’t going to help anyone. Conservative Americans need to take back the government of this country because whether you believe it or not 60% of Americans say they are conservative. That being the case then why is this government so unconservative?

Oct 17, 2008 - 10:17 am 120. Mike:

For all of you “four years of Obama, and the country will be be begging for a conservative hero” types… Three letters: FDR – the guy almost single handedly caused World War II by turning an economic downturn into a world wide depression which really didn’t end till the 1950’s, and vast numbers of people still worship him because “he pulled us out of the depression”.

Obama has the benefits of a far more compliant media, a lock on all the branches and departments of government, a single party education system which doesn’t even have to pretend there is a point of view other than leftist socialism, and finally a populace made incapable of critical thought after generations of public education.

In a hundred years people will still drool, nod, and blame George Bush as the left drives the country ever farther into the toilet.

Oct 17, 2008 - 10:24 am 121. Sandy Salt:

maggie,
Please explain what your vision for this country is because you have me utterly baffled by your statements. You must not remember the late 70’s or you would not be spouting the misguided crap you posted. I do remember and those were not good times. High unemployment, high interest rates, and hostages in Iran, all of which was brought on by Carter and a Democratic congress. Reagan brought back American pride and restored our place in the World. His policies lead to the end of the Cold War, which was a good thing. As for Gingrich, he promised but never delivered on smaller government and most of the Republicans he help get elected turned into Democrats with their hands out to lobbyists and their money. The people will revolt if the euro-socialist party drives this country any further to the left.

Oct 17, 2008 - 10:25 am 122. crafty b:

“116. cedarhill:

Crafty b. Apt name.

I guess in your “history”, the period from January 2001 to January 2007 (during which Republicans most certainly did control (1) the Presidency, (2) the House, (3) the Senate, (4) the Supreme Court, (5) all departments within the administration) just didn’t exist, right?

Listen, I’m honesly not one for one party controlling all sides of government. Even when it happens to be my party. A part of me would actually prefer the Democrats don’t get 60 seats in the Senate. And the Right would still dominate the Supreme Court under President Obama until the Democrats unstall 1 or 2 new justices (assuming the one’s dropping out are on the Right).

And the rest of your “History” depends on a misuse of what is and was center in this country. Despite what you want to believe, the Democratic party of the last 30 years is WAAAAAY to the Right of the Democratic party from the 30’s through the 70’s. Today’s Democratic Party is more like The Moderate Republicans of 50 years ago. You have it backwards. (but that’s really all a matter of perspective. I’m sure you’ll deny it).

Oct 17, 2008 - 10:37 am 123. Tony:

Here we have it again.

Another right winger railing about “socialism” who obviously does not know anything about it.

Truth be told, if we had socialism in this country we would not be in the shape we are in now. The fat cats who played russian roulette with our money would never have had the freedom to do it.

What you see the republican party doing now is more akin to what the fascists in Italy and Japan and Nazi Germany did. An alliance between government and business that will privatize profits and make the debt and risk of the rich “public.”

And, lets be honest. All the violence in this country for the last 30 years has come from the right wing. Remember Oklahoma City? We have more to fear from the right wing kooks like this writer than from all the Ayers in the world.

Oct 17, 2008 - 10:37 am 124. WA NEOCON:

Maggie,

Get off the weed and read! Either your post is a joke or you are seriously mental. Reagan reinvigorated this nation like no other in 100 years. Gingrich formulated the Contract With America, led the Welfare Reform Act, got America back to work and productive. Only Clintons tax increases slowed it all down by 2000. What a joke of a President. If we continue to become a welfare state then shortly we will all be on welfare! Get a clue. You need to get off the meds.

Waiting for my share of wealth redistribution…starting with rich Hollywood types…..

Oct 17, 2008 - 10:42 am 125. Godlees Homosexual Socialist (and proud of it):

I love reading conservative blogs where “socialism” is taken for granted as bad and if the author chooses to use the word, he/she is not required to make any intellectual argument as to why it is bad.

Social security is socialism. Medicaid and Medicare are socialism. Public roads, bridges, schools, parks– all socialism. Giving out loans and cash gifts to the financial sector is hardcore socialism! They’re calling him “Comrade Bush” in Latin America. Americans love socialism. They hate the brand of fascism peddled by the rogues in the Bush administration and the hate-mongers in congress.

A lesson for the Republican party: people might like it when you talk about your ideas (preemptive war, trickle-down economics, destruction of the environment, theocratic governance), but when you actually put these ideas into practice, voters give you what you deserve: a swift kick in the ass out the door. That’s how you lost independents.

You lost conservatives by creating the most expensive government agency in American history (Department of Homeland Security, small government my ass), not providing health care for veterans, really screwing up the Katrina clean-up operation, the illegal spying, outing a CIA agent, drastically over-stepping the constitution with signing statements (you should read some of them, they give Bush the power to take your home for no reason), and sending too many G.I.s to their deaths for a lie. A lie that you then replaced with another lie. And another, and another, and so on.

The Republican party is on its death bed, and we lefties have to be sure that we pull the plug and cut off its head this time.

Oct 17, 2008 - 10:42 am 126. crafty b:

121. Sandy Salt:

Oct 17, 2008 – 10:25 am

Sandy, I’m guessing Ronald Reagan, if he could, would be the first guy to tell yout that the policies he implemented from 1980-1980 were not meant to be never-ending. You simply CANNOT run deficits like that forever without destroying your country. You CANNOT ignore domestic funding needs forever without destroying your country. You can use that political ploy on a temporary basis, but as a permanent “principle”, it’s disastrous.

Ronald Reagan was the right guy for the right time. His deficits were meant to 1) Bankrupt the Soviet Union and 2) cynically strangle domestic programs.

1) was noble, 2) was pathetic.

The soviet union broke up in 1991. So the only reason the Republicans keep up the Deficit spending is obviously # 2.

If you want to cut social programs, have Congress do it straight forward (the probem is, the majority of the electorate doesn’t WANT that. They WANT social security & medicare).

TODAY is not 1980. TODAY’S problems are not 1980’s problems. We DON’T need more Ronald Reagan today, but LESS.

Oct 17, 2008 - 10:44 am 127. WA NEOCON:

Godless,
Truly sorry for your mental problems. As you well know all the above great Socialist programs you mentioned run SO WELL! Let’s cut them all. And if Liberals would talk about how they want to run your life then NOONE would vote for them.

Since you stand for nothing it is obvious you will kneel for anything!

This American does not believe your brand of socialism is so wonderful. Taking from one to give to another is enabling those who won’t do for themselves to live on those that have! Parents who coddle create monsters. Parents who don’t pass on ideals and beliefs get kids like Godless/Homo/Socialist with nothing but the government to count on. I really do feel sorry for you. Conservatism will always be the bedrock this country thrives on despite your best attempts to bring it down to the level you live in. GOD BLESS THE USA!

Now go get your dress on and go to work.

Oct 17, 2008 - 11:01 am 128. Dave from Oregon:

If Sen. McCain loses, then President Obama will begin working on some of the most pressing problems this country faces.

The opposition party can hopefully surface the problems with his solutions and act as a loyal opposition party rather than a bunch of spoiled children who are throwing temper tantrum because Dad has been brought in to clean up the mess they have made.

Our problems are serious and we tried a conservative approach. That approach exacerbated the problems. it is time to discard that failed philosophy and move on.

Oct 17, 2008 - 11:08 am 129. Jarhead:

I seriously doubt any increase in personal or corporate taxes will result in increase government revenue. We are past the top of the Laffer Curve on both. The Kennedy, Reagan, and Bush tax cuts all resulted in increased revenue.

Increasing taxes will drive businesses abroad and the economy underground. Plumbers, carpenters, and painters typically charge 30% less if you pay in cash. Look for more barter and trade if taxes go even higher.

Oct 17, 2008 - 11:19 am 130. Sandy Salt:

I can understand your points and no one is saying that it is 1980, but we do need a strong leader. This one just needs to cut government. I agree that there was a time for Social Security, but now is not it either. We need to take responsibility for ourselves and not expect the government to be there to hand us a check. If we allow people to save their own money (which they won’t do of course) then we could get the government out of pensions.

Now there will always be those that can’t or won’t prepare for the future and we will have to provide for them, but those who can and will should not be penalized for those who won’t. I think people want what is coming to them because they paid so much money in to these programs, but if the young workers didn’t have to pay in then they would no longer expect anything back.

I do believe that if you are able you should work and contribute to society and if not then you should be helped, but it shouldn’t be a lifestyle choice. Ask California if they enjoy paying billions of dollars to those who do nothing to add to the society. California is bankrupt because of social programs. Hawii stopped universal health care for children because those who could afford health care stopped paying so the state had to pay.

You can find examples to support both sides, but it should not be a federal issue unless it crosses statelines. I agree that some regulation is good for protection, but not good when it forces dumb practices like lowering mortgage standards. This just shows that we need to meet in the middle and not at the extremes. Americans are reasonable, but don’t want to be screwed over by the government, big business, or each other.

Oct 17, 2008 - 11:19 am 131. Pamlet:

I started reading this to have a good laugh at the right-wing nutjobs, but it actually evolved into an interesting conversation (with some predictable exceptions).

The truth of the matter is that we hate pork when it’s someone else’s pork. Look at Mr. Stevens of Alaska — Republican! Forget the ideology, it’s his job to deliver benefits to his state. And what’s more, if he has to trade votes in the Senate to get those goodies, he’ll do it. So that’s a problem with the structure of our government. It’s all well and good to talk about greedy or corrupt politicians, but it’s the system that’s corrupting. I don’t have solution to this, but I haven’t heard one from the right, either.

OK, and what about the “government doessn’t work” line? Well, maybe one of the reasons it doesn’t work is because Republicans have trashed gov service so thoroughly that any smart kid avoids gov service like the plague. Smart kids go into investment banking — they go where the money is.

I agree with “small gov” in the sense that we need to use the least gov possible to get the job done. But I think a lot of conservatives live in a fantasy world where securities don’t need to be regulated, ports don’t need to be safe, SS isn’t necessary (nor is Medicare, which is actually a pretty well-run program. And if you think it isn’t, is your private insurance run any better?), food and medicine doesn’t need to be safe, roads and bridges don’t need to be built, etc. Unfortunately we live in an incredibly complicated world where there are a lot of things that need to be done for the general good that just won’t happen if left to the free market. (Who’s going to notice if animals are going extinct, for example?)

Oct 17, 2008 - 11:19 am 132. crafty b:

“127. WA NEOCON:

Godless,
Truly sorry for your mental problems. As you well know all the above great Socialist programs you mentioned run SO WELL! Let’s cut them all.
Oct 17, 2008 – 11:01 am”

WA Neocon. My Grandmother lives off of Social Security and Medicare. My family COULD take care of her financially, but she doesn’t want that and would be ashamed to accept it, AND if we weren’t here to protect her, then she would NEED them or she would DIE cold, hungry, and destitute. Why don’t you tell her about how terribly run those programs are. In fact, why don’t you stand up to the millions of Americans who rely on these programs for their well being and dignity how terribly they are run. Go ahead.

Who will provide medicine to the poor and old if Medicare doesn’t? Are YOU going to start the private company that does this? Are YOU going to stand up in front of Private investors and say “give me your money so that I can give medicine and financial security to the poor and old. Sure, they’re broke and it’ll definately lose money hand over fist, but you’ll feel great!

Private enterprise is profit driven. Period. If taking care of the old or getting medicine to the sick doesn’t result in a profit, it won’t be done by Private enterprise. So the option is Government assured programs, death, or hope and pray that some altruistic private party saves your can.

These programs (Social Security and Medicare) are NOT failures. In fact, to many in the “Greatest Generation”, they are considered the greatest domestic achievements in our Governments history. Please, ask ANYBODY who relies on them if we should “cut them all”. Some day you will be old and frail. I pray that you have the personal savings to take care of yourself. I pray that the stock market doesn’t crash just as you retire so that you don’t NEED a fixed income, federally guaranteed program like Social Security or government assured medical treatment. But if you DON’T, make sure you just freeze and die due to lack of housing and medicine without complaining because you spent your younger, productive years complaining about what a waste these programs are?

Oct 17, 2008 - 11:22 am 133. jeb:

Dave from Oregon:
“The opposition party can hopefully surface the problems with his solutions and act as a loyal opposition party rather than a bunch of spoiled children who are throwing temper tantrum because Dad has been brought in to clean up the mess they have made.”

The last part or your comment just described the last 7 years of the Democratic Party

Oct 17, 2008 - 11:23 am 134. deguello:

If Obama wins,it wiil present a wonderful opportunity to lay the groundwork for a truly conservative,truly populist opposition party, to replace the corrupt and ineffectual political poltroons that constitue the present republican party.If he decides to move against the first amendment,however, by shutting down blogs like this, or Fox news,or talk radio, then it will be time to use the second amendment to save the first.

Oct 17, 2008 - 11:28 am 135. Ex-fetus:

“I love reading conservative blogs where “socialism” is taken for granted as bad and if the author chooses to use the word, he/she is not required to make any intellectual argument as to why it is bad.”

Hitlrt, Stalin, Pol Pot, Saddam. Those that don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
BTW, you view of Socialism is wrong.

Oct 17, 2008 - 11:28 am 136. Freder:

Oh man, thanks to all the conservative hysteria in your comments, really thank you. I was having a bad day and then I spent 30 minutes browsing your blog and have such a smile on my face, in fact my cheeks hurt from laughing so much. Your comments, although so misguided and mis-informed, are hilarious. The whining brings back memories of SNL and the Whiner family. Good times indeed. I especially like the suggestion that rural (farmers) America is dead when Obama wins. Hilarious. Trying to remember when the Republicans have actually been good for farmers, well I can’t remember it in my lifetime. I do recall Clinton pushing for the 1996 legislation to phase out the government subsidies that forced farmers to grow what the government told them, rather, they would be able to join the free market and grow what was in demand so the farming families could turn a real profit rather than rely on the (BIG) government. Of course Bush and Cronies destroyed that in 2002 with more subsidies and regulation of crops grown, when and where. So funny how you are OK with a crazy free Wall Street, but god forbid farmers get to choose what to grow. Small government when convenient to you I guess. Also, wasn’t it W who tried to veto the 2008 Farm Bill? Quite an advanced piece of legislation for pursuing the success of the American Farmers, hmmmm. So anyway, thanks again for the laughs, it really made my day. And also, best of luck in your moves to Canada, New Zealand, Ireland, and wherever else you go, I’m sure you will find so many more things to cry about there, it will be fun for you all. I would say we’ll miss you, but that would be a lie, and I’m sure you would recognize the lie since you are so used to the M. O. of your candidate, and especially his silly choice for a running mate. Oh, better yet, maybe you and the Palins can find a state that will secede from the USA…you know, kind of form your own leper colony, away from rational thinkers.

Oct 17, 2008 - 11:28 am 137. jane:

Once Obama gets rolling hopefully some of the leftist loons will realize that THEY are NOT the middle class he talked about helping.

People who actually work and pay taxes will get tired of supporting the drains on society and will either figure out a way to circumvent the system or their employers will do it for them by taking the jobs overseas.

All that free health insurance and college tuition has to be paid for by someone. Do the liberals honestly think the “fat cats” are going to be the ones hurt by Obama? Anyone really think those in the Hollywood set making millions per movie are going to be hurt? Those people have accountants/financial advisors to minimize the negative tax impact. The ones who will be hurt are those who bought into class envy, the slackers who think they are entitled to a free ride.

The only question is how long it will take for them to realize that they are getting shafted – which will be a facotr of how stupid they really are.

Oct 17, 2008 - 11:32 am 138. vivo:

19. Chuck Pelto:

“P.S. Between vivo and Jim and the Lufkin Incident….

….I’m wondering who is going to be putting whom into ‘detention’ camps.”

That’s what your Nazi mentality thinks . . Sorry.

Ne positive, be patriot, be smart, get out of the loser mentality. Have a nice walk and breath the air, unless you live in polluted area.

Oct 17, 2008 - 11:35 am 139. Sandy Salt:

Pamlet,
You hit the big problem in the head when you said that Stevens was in Washington to get benefits for his state. This idea that the feds are an ATM is what is killing this country. The reason for Congress is not to tax the people so they can send it to their respective states, they are there to represent their states on federal issues, such as interstate commerce, interstate roads, national defense and so on. They are not there to grab the biggest piece of the federal budget possible for their state. That is what is wrong with our government today. That is why I call for a new third party that understands this and will force the other two to come back to the middle. We have lived so long with high taxes and government spending that we don’t realize that this was never intended for our government. We now have a “King” in Washington that imposes its will on the people and the people thank him for his larges with our money. Oh, how far we have fallen from our first love of freedom and independence.

Oct 17, 2008 - 11:35 am 140. AdrianS:

2nd lawsuit challenges Obama’s citizenship
Man demands state verify birth records or remove senator from ballots

Note: It is incumbent on ALL Secretaries of State in all of the United States to BOTH accurately verify Voters AND candidates. Barack Hussein Obama has sealed his “Hawaiian” birth records and also records in Kenya.

Failure to verify and certify qualification for ALL candidates in a general election by any Secretary of State may be a cause of action (dereliction of duty) and criminal charges may be filed.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=78111

Also:

The Video that could cost Obama the election

http://www.nextgenerationcorp.com/NextGenBlog/?p=68

Oct 17, 2008 - 11:38 am 141. WA NEOCON:

I don’t count on SS, Medicare, Welfare or any other government run program for my future as the mess will be bankrupt before I get there. And I will work until I die and then move to a higher place.

I don’t believe the programs should be stopped. The issue is giving the power to the government. If people understood how much money they hand over every two weeks they would cry. They should be as incensed to give it to the government as to me! Self reliance is not a bad thing. People are generous and would not stand for people dieing in the streets. Fraud is too easy in government programs. We could pay off a huge chunk of our debt if we could eliminate it. But inefficient is inefficient. We keep doing what we are doing we will get the same results.

There has to be a better way and it is not more government.

Oct 17, 2008 - 11:48 am 142. RK:

World War 4 is coming soon and the election of Obama will bring it on sooner, and more assuredly, than ever. The outcome of this war will determine our future more so than any trivial present-day plans for a comeback by the Republican party. Ultimately, millions will be slaughtered before it is over. Let us hope that these dead are predominantly on the side of our enemies. Other than seeing that part clearly, the future is but a fuzzy cloud.

Oct 17, 2008 - 11:56 am 143. Kelley:

Jim et al:

The Democrats used to be known as the party of the middle class/lower class and the Repubs aligned with the “Rich”. Why is it then that the Rich are supporting Obama. He’s got NY, CA, CT, Hawaii and MA — all the money states. Hollywood money types are all over him. He has more money than he can spend, all from private donations. McCain has the “poorer” states in the South and Midwest and Alaska. His campaign is on public support. Looks to me like the tables have turned in recent years. Do u really think the rich will support and elect someone that doesnt have THEIR interests at heart? O B A M A

Oct 17, 2008 - 11:58 am 144. Freder:

And just when I had thought I was all laughed out, AdrianS comes up with another one, check out these links to learn about why this is so silly and start to understand the Constitution and follow up laws of clarification a bit more there chief.

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html (describes that even if he was not born in the US, which he was, his mother’s citizenship would qualify him)

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn227/Polarik/BO_Birth_Certificate.jpg (for the birth certificate he produced when running for office both Senate and President, duh) – although I’m sure you will say it was forged being the rational thinker you are???

Oct 17, 2008 - 11:59 am 145. Ratatosk:

AdrianS,

I wouldn’t put much stock in those lawsuits. In the United States, IF your parent is an American Citizen, the child also is an American Citizen… no matter WHERE they were born. Obama could have been born in Hawaii, Afghanistan, Africa, or Antarctica and as long as his mother was an American citizen (by birth or naturalized) the Obama is an American Citizen and eligible for holding office.

Period.

Now, if you’re gonna argue that his mom isn’t American, go ahead… but that’s the only way claims of eligibility would stick. He would have had to be born outside the US with non American parents for him to not be a citizen.

That’s pretty basic social studies there, folks.

Oct 17, 2008 - 12:07 pm 146. newton:

If Obama wins, I’m going to look for the best curricula for my very young daughters…

Homeschooling curricula.

Then, I’m going to make sure that we don’t make more money than we should. Hello, underground economy! Garage sales, bartering and flea markets are going to be the norm, more than the exception.

Oct 17, 2008 - 12:09 pm 147. crafty b:

141. WA NEOCON:

There has to be a better way and it is not more government.

Oct 17, 2008 – 11:48 am

Neocon. What if you CAN’T work until you die? What if your employer doesn’t WANT you to work until you die? I don’t think anybody WANT’S to rely on SS or Medicare.

Why in the world do you think people don’t understand how much they give to the government for Social Security? It’s not exactly a secret. In fact, IT’S PRINTED ON EVERY SINGLE PAYCHECK! And yet, Social Security and Medicare are incredibly popular programs to all but the farthest on the Right.

“There has to be a better way and it is not more government.”

Until you think of a better way, then it is Government. Period.

Oct 17, 2008 - 12:10 pm 148. PIF:

OK boys, lets look at this theoretical Obama win another way.

That he is a socialist few will disagree. However, what we do not know about this empty suit, we will learn on or right after Jan 20, 2009 – like the Nation of Islam endorsement which was let out early.

In the Great O’s erstwhile home in Kenya, Africa, Ralie Odinga is now the Prime Minister. He came to power claiming he was not a Muslim. He denied that accusation. But the local Muslims revealed not only was he a Muslim but had made a pact with them to impose Shiria Law, ban Christians and Jews, etc. Then Odinga denied his denials – threw them under the bus. so to speak.

So what does that have to do with the O? Odinga is or maybe the O’s first cousin, be what it may, they do know each other and according to some have been in contact recently.

What if the O’s plan is not to make the US like Canada but like South Africa? You know, South Africa, that once shining beacon of Parliamentary Democracy on a continent filled with despots and tyrants, which is now the baby-rape and murder capital of the world?

Let’s also not get too excited about the following elections. Right now, the US is very close to an historical parallel with 1933 Germany. Following the rise of a young charismatic man, there were no open elections for 10 years or so. A war settled that issue.

As for Iran and using nukes – well, of course, how else to lure the 12th Iman out of the well he has been living for the past 1000 years? Blood and lots of it, the only scent that One requires to spur him into action.

But I digress, some have said Iran will have six nuclear weapons ready to use in a short time. One for Tel Aviv, one for the Vatican, one each for Europe and the US – both high-altitude EMP bursts returning both to the 18th century instantly. The other two in reserve for uppity near-by Arab states.

On moving somewhere, after the Ascension of the Great O: I would personally go for either South East or Cordova, Alaska. Work for you other guys who are thinking of AK will be hard to come by, but as I happen to have been in the fishing game for 30 years, things might be tough, but I will still be warm and eating.

Meanwhile, until the One has been Proclaimed and Crowned, vote straight a Republican ticket – even if you hate the scumbag ‘Pubilcrate. A scumbag will be easier to vote out later than an Anointed Messiah.

Oh yeah, lest I forget: All you excited Libs and such like: Remember The Night of the Long Knives… Look it up else have someone read it to you. Umm… well, that might be too much of a strain – so I’ll make it short, while O’s boys in Blue Shirts from his Civilian Nation Security Force will come for the likes of us, they will come for you first…

Oct 17, 2008 - 12:28 pm 149. Tom B:

You guys never stop. You cannot honestly expect anyone to take you seriously when you refer to Obama’s policies as “socilaist.” This is why hotheaded Republicans don’t deserve a seat at the table. You’re a bunch of rude, greedy, small-minded men and women who deseve to go the way of the Whigs and the Know Nothings. When you grow up, you can come back to the table. For now, I suggest you warm up your VCR’s and watch re-runs of the Reagan years. That’s all you’ve got left now.

Oct 17, 2008 - 12:32 pm 150. Jarhead:

Ratatosk: They are arguing that Obama was born abroad and is therefore not a “natural born citizen” as required by Article II of the Constitution.

I don’t really have an opinion on this.

Oct 17, 2008 - 12:32 pm 151. Chuck Pelto:

TO: Godlees Homosexual Socialist (and proud of it)
RE: Socialism

I love reading conservative blogs where “socialism” is taken for granted as bad and if the author chooses to use the word, he/she is not required to make any intellectual argument as to why it is bad. — GHS (apoi)

No ‘intellectual argument’?

Where to begin?

How about what happened with the Soviet Union.

Then there’s the fiasco in Cuba.

Not to forget damn near all of Western Europe.

And those are just for starters.

We have the WONDERFUL job being done with socialized medicine in England and Canada, too.

RE: How Niiiiice

The Republican party is on its death bed, and we lefties have to be sure that we pull the plug and cut off its head this time. — GHS (apoi)

That’s a lovely sentiment. And what I’d expect from some hate-filled, godless person. Death-wishes to those who disagree with you and a desire to mutilate them.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. -- Winston Churchill]

Oct 17, 2008 - 12:33 pm 152. crafty b:

141. WA NEOCON:

There has to be a better way and it is not more government.

Oct 17, 2008 – 11:48 am

Also NEOCON, it’s not all about YOU. What aboout your wife? What if, like my Grandparents, you die at the age of 60, but your wife lives to be 90. I’m sure, on my Grandfather’s deathbed, he was conforted knowing that his wife’s basic economic security and health was backed by the full faith of the US Government. I’m guessing he wouldn’t have felt too hot if it was only backed by “the Free Market”, represented by some slick young financial adviser with clear conflict of interests and a profit motive.

Your acting as though everything is 100% under your control. I hate to break it to you, but it’s NOT. You could (knock on wood) fall sick. The company that holds your 401k that you’ve been saving your entire life could be involved in an accounting scandal and collapse spectatularly on your 65th birthday (in which case, who do you go running to??? That’s right, the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. Or else. Tough cookies. That’s the free market kid).

Let’s say you and Wall Street get your wish and we privatize Social Security. It would MOST DEFINATELY qualify as a Private entity that is “Too big to fail”, which means that it WILL be backstopped by the Federal Government/Taxpayer and the only REAL difference from the current Social Security program is that Private CEO’s and their Chronies would get to dip their sticky little paws into the kitty… and the Taxpayer would end up footing the bill PLUS all the money siphened off by the “free market” titans who ran the Private Social Security into the ground while walking off with $100s of millions for themselves. Say what you want about Social Security, but there isn’t anyone on the payroll “earning” $100 million/year to drive it into bankruptcy, now is there?

Again… If not Government. Who?

Oct 17, 2008 - 12:33 pm 153. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: vivo Projects, Again

That’s what your Nazi mentality thinks…. — vivo

’nuff said.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[When they accuse you of things that don't make sense, they're really talking about themselves. -- CBPelto]

Oct 17, 2008 - 12:36 pm 154. dan:

if you think Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid are going to remain solvent even if they threaten the US economy, you should step away from the computer and remember to stay away from the polls in November. if the present economic metldown weren’t sufficient, and it probably isn’t sufficient by itself, the coming demographic tsunami as 70 million + babyboomers line up for their checks is going to break the bank. period. and there’s nothing anyone can do about it except to say “look: it just didn’t work out the way we hoped it would. are you going to throw *yet another* ‘it’s not fair!’ tantrum?”

but hey – we’re making progress of a sort: at least some people have come out and back-handedly endorsed socialism finally. usually they’d like to duck an actual argument over principles and instead talk passive-aggressively, insinuating that the existence of victims proves the invalidity and immorality of the system. i guess we conservatives just want to victimize.

yknow. perhaps we should just have a Hot civil war & get this over with.

Oct 17, 2008 - 12:37 pm 155. cedarhill:

crafty b.

Facts are always elusive to the Left.

Next time you run into Ted Daschle, ask him what years he was the majority leader of the Senate. Also ask him, when he was minority leader of the Senate, if he had fewer than 40 Democrat Senators. The Dems could have easily blocked any law just by filibustering it. You, if you can calm yourself, may have heard about the filibusters the Democrats put on regarding judicial appointments? Going back to the Clinton era, you may recall it was the Dole Republicans that blocked Hillary-care in the Senate by filibustering the bill. Dole will tell you he was minority leader of the Senate at the time.

We can address the other items when we get past how the Congress works. And it’s ok to be ignorant – that can be corrected through studies. Maybe we can take a quiz, which President:
1. Cut taxes by a significant amount
2. Invaded a country we were not at war with at the time
3. Supported a strong defense
4. Supported new social programs?
Answer: Kennedy. Also Bush. Technically, we were at war with Iraq since there was only only an armistice in effect. To save you the trouble of looking it up, an armistice is a temporary stop in fighting by mutual consent. But why quibble. Kennedy failed in just about all of his social programs but Bush that No Child thing as well as the huge expansion in welfare (that drug law for seniors). I’ve lived during every President from Eisenhower but don’t trust me, go read some history.

We can examine the growth of socialism in Democracies sometime when you have more study time.

Since this batch of Dems is further left than even the EU, it is entirely reasonable that, if Obama wins, it won’t make much difference about the Senate rule on filibuster. They’re entirely capable of just changing the rules and doing many of the same type of programs FDR tried in the 1930’s for much the same reason. There was a conservative court in most of FDR’s terms but not today. If you think the court is right wing today, go visit Powerline.com and ask the three attorneys there.

Remember, no need to get excited.

Oct 17, 2008 - 12:51 pm 156. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: Is It Just Me?

Or does anyone else here see a resemblance between Godless Homosexual Socialist’s comment of…

The Republican party is on its death bed, and we lefties have to be sure that we pull the plug and cut off its head this time. — GHS (apoi)

….and vivo’s….

That’s what your Nazi mentality thinks… —

Both full of mindless hatred and other lovely stuff.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out.]

Oct 17, 2008 - 12:51 pm 157. Lu:

Conservatives could “shrug”.

Oct 17, 2008 - 12:53 pm 158. crafty b:

153. dan:

Oct 17, 2008 – 12:37 pm

Well, that was the plan of the Republicans repeated raiding of the Social Security Trust Fund, to put it in Crisis and drown it under a wave of fearmongering about insolvency. First everyone needs to recognize that. The current funding status of Social Security is a PLANNED RESULT of Republican policies.

Second. It is NOT too late to fund Social Security. Republicans and Conservative think tanks have been screaming “the sky is falling” on Social Security since before it began. It was supposed to go bankrupt decades ago already. It’s not gonna happen. Reforms will be needed, yes. But more importantly, WE NEED TO STOP THE CYNICAL, INTENTIONAL UNDERFUNDING OF THE PROGRAMS. And we need to stop raiding the funds that support them. If we put the money that has already been spent on the Iraq War into SS & Medicare, there wouldn’t be a debate today. The programs CAN be funded, it’s just a simple matter of PRIORITIES. And PRIORITIES is why the electorate is moving overwhelmingly towards the Democrats today. Many, many people think the Republicans’ sense of Priority is downright insanity.

Oct 17, 2008 - 12:53 pm 159. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: If McCain Loses….

….and we all lose as a result, when the disaster happens and Obama is not up to the task, I’ve got some bumper stickers in mind….

This is some kinda change we’ve got now. Let’s thank the DOPE.

And on the other side of the bumper….

Don’t blame ME. I didn’t vote for the DOPE.

The O in DOPE is Obama’s logo.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Democracy substitutes election by the incompetent many for appointment by the corrupt few. -- George Bernard Shaw]

Oct 17, 2008 - 1:01 pm 160. radical_moderate:

So jane, may I assume that you will refuse the tax break Obama wants to give you on principal? And if you don’t have employer backed Health Insurance, will you refuse to buy into the Federal Employee’s Plan that Obama and McCain currently enjoy as Federal employees? (I hate to break it to you, but the Obama plan is not free, you will be expected to pay premiums on a sliding scale according to your ability to pay; for most American’s that will mean a reduction by 50% or so, but only very low income Americans will be fully subsidized.)

Oct 17, 2008 - 1:07 pm 161. jane:

What you seem to ignore is the question of WHO IS GOING TO PAY for all of the benefits you seem to think are your right?

And where did you get the idea that the federal plan for government employees is cheap? I know government employees who would much rather have a plan like the majority of teachers/union people have. Why would anyone who has a better plan change?

Oct 17, 2008 - 1:31 pm 162. crafty b:

155. cedarhill:

crafty b.

Facts are always elusive to the Left.

We can examine the growth of socialism in Democracies sometime when you have more study time.

Remember, no need to get excited.

Oct 17, 2008 – 12:51 pm

So now “control” of the Senate means a filibuster proof majority? Dude, you just got caught being ignorant and now your gonna double down by trying to redifine what “control” of Congress means?

Well you better notify Fox News, Talk Radio, and every right-leaning blogger on the planet, because they’ve been working feverishy to blame the “Democratically Controlled” (yet strangely not Filibuster-Proof)” Congress for the current Republican failures.

And I guess I could understand how you think that because the fact that Kennedy presided over some failures that he was on the Right, being as it is that the Republican party is working feverishly to be synonymous with “failure”. But unfortunately, the man who said “Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country.”, who’s first act as President was to start the Peace Corp., who worked feverishly to move our Government into MORE internationalist pacts (Nuclear Test Ban Treaty is a perfect example), who called his domestic program the “New Frontier” and ambitiously promised federal funding for education, medical care for the elderly, and government intervention to halt a recession, and who strong-armed Congress into funding the Apollo Program was no government shrinking, free market Conservative. He was WELL left of today’s Democratic Party.

Sorry, but you can have your own opinion, you can’t have your own history and definitions of commonly used words.

Oct 17, 2008 - 1:38 pm 163. Tversky:

Reading the posts by Obama supporters I’m reminded of something playwright David Mamet once said:

Democrats throw their trash AT the trashcans.

Democrats are great at identifying problems. Much better than Republicans who tend (IMO at least) to be so focused on their day to day lives and families that they aren’t as tuned into potential problems outside their immediate communities. But liberal Democrat solutions to those problems (big government interventionism) are at best inferior and at worst completely counter-productive. Yet, here come the liberals again, roaring back into power positions of the Democratic Party with the help of benefactors like George Soros. Here they are, proposing to do the same things that have failed in the past. Why would they do that? Do they think their quasi-socialism failed in the past because it wasn’t IMPLEMENTED properly? I don’t get it. Are they just ignorant of the past or simply insane (doing the same thing over and over again hoping for a different outcome)?

Obama’s economic policies and foreign policies harken back to Jimmy Carter – not Bill Clinton as many Dems hope. (Bill Clinton with the Republican Congress brought us welfare reform. Obama’s 95% tax myth will bring back welfare on a scale we haven’t seen in years.) Why would anyone think it’s a good idea to go back to Carter’s stagflation 70s? That’s what your going to get if Obama follows through on his economic policies.
Don’t believe me?
100 economists, including 5 Nobel Prize winners agree that Obama’s policies are exactly what we DON’T need in the midst of this global financial meltdown:
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/News/PressReleases/96557315-1694-4d8f-9b0a-c29f0f0872e6.htm

I want change just like most people. I hate that Republicans in Congress have sacrificed their principals to engage in the same tax payer funded spending spree the Democrats have engaged in for years. And even though I’ll always be grateful to President Bush for keeping us safe after 9/11, I think he’s done an enormous amount to harm the conservative and Republican brands. But change can be either positive or negative. Obama’s change, PARTICULARLY since it’ll be fostered by the two most ruthless, partisan hacks to ever control Congress – Reid and Pelosi – is the WRONG kind of change.

As for the country moving to the left?
On certain issues I think it has. Healthcare for example. But in general I don’t believe most Americans, even most Americans voting for Obama are REALLY as liberal as Obama is. Most Americans are not dreaming of more government intervention. Most Americans aren’t lazy people that want to suck off the nanny state’s teet.
However, there are alot of people out there that have lost faith in the conservative and Republican brands over things like Washington spending, Iraq War, the feds response to Katrina, etc. These people are voting for Obama because they feel like he can’t be worse than what we have now. (Trust me. It can get MUCH worse. Hell, I’d go so far as to say alot of us are pretty freakin’ spoiled by both world and US historical standards.)
Other Obama supporters I know are under the false impression he’s really a moderate like Bill Clinton. Still other Obama supporters like some of the more elitist conservative pundits like Christopher Buckley, Kathleen Parker, etc. are confident that Obama’s alleged brilliance will make him turn more to the center when he gets into office. Alot of these impressions are fostered by a naive public that still believes the media is unbiased and a media that has done an extraordinary job hiding Obama’s past and turning any critique of him into a charge of racism. He is the least vetted candidate in American history. He’s the biggest unknown since Jimmy Carter. Heck, even some of Obama’s supporters are clueless about him.
Sadly, so many folks have no idea they are on the verge of giving us the most liberal government in years.
But we’ll survive. I still have faith in the American people. We always rise up in the end.

Oct 17, 2008 - 1:38 pm 164. Sandy Salt:

Sad to see that we are back in the tit for tat bickering that is so typical these days. We should first agree that this country is in a mess and then start working on a real solution. If anyone thinks that more government spending is the answer, please justify why. If you think cutting spending and adopting a balanced budget is going to work lets hear it. If you think cutting spending to the bone and paying of the the national debt is the answer lets hear that too. Then maybe we can sit down and reason together to arrive at a sensible solution. I don’t think we get there from here without a special tax that is strictly for paying of the nation debt, but that is my opinion. I am talking a 1% federal sales tax specifically to pay off the national debt. Anyone got any other ideas? Regardless of who is elected unless we drastically change Washington then nothing good is going to happen.

Oct 17, 2008 - 1:45 pm 165. Hanna:

America is the best country in the world.

People stop tearing each other to pieces. Shame on you. US is the best country in the world. Take the best ideas from both sides and make it thrive!!! Yes capitalism is the only answer. Having grown up on the wrong side of the iron curtain I can tell you first hand – socialism is a slippery slope to nowhere because humans are lazy when they can profit from other people working from them. But capitalism cannot be left completely unleashed because humans are genetically too greedy and they will try to exploit the system for their own advantage like the bankers- so you have to control them by law even at the price of stifling enterprise slightly. You are the richest people on earth. Why the hell can’t u have the universal healthcare? You can afford it if you do it well. Just appreciate what a great country America is – the best universities, science, practically all new technology and innovation, the satellites, the biotech, everything. You guys are the best. Be proud of it and stop squabbling, assholes on both sides. There are real enemies – most importantly islamic political fundamentalism – this is your enemy. Stop tearing each other to pieces, unite and face the real enemy as one.

Oct 17, 2008 - 1:49 pm 166. Sandy Salt:

jane,
I can answer where the money comes from, the same place that it always does the military.

Oct 17, 2008 - 1:51 pm 167. crafty b:

Oh, and lets not forget his hand-in-hand relationship with Martin Luther King on Civil rights and creation of the Presidential Commission on the Status of Women, which many give credit for helping kickstart the modern feminist movement.

Yup.. that guy sounds like a closet Conservative to me.

Oct 17, 2008 - 1:52 pm 168. T-Bird:

Well, at least we don’t have to worry about the Democrats being “corrupted” by Washington. Every trapping of Absolute Power that we consider criminal is what they strive for.

Oct 17, 2008 - 1:56 pm 169. jeb:

jane:
The problem is your trying to use common sense logic on people who just want to argue. These people have no idea how much this is going to cost us but if it’s any consolation I agree with you

Oct 17, 2008 - 2:01 pm 170. Nunya:

MSM and Hollywood. That is one hell of a weapon the Democrats have.

Not really. The MSM is Old Dying Biased Media, and Hollywood leftist drivel that passes for entertainment usually bombs.

Just think about Obama having a half hour of primetime for an infomercial.

I don’t have to think about it, since the television will be turned off. Which is where it will stay for the next 4 years IF osam,obama wins.

I say no to blindly electing Republicians back in. The American people deserve better. We need a new party or branch that is truly conservative and will be held accountable for their actions. They must truly hold and abide by conservative ideals.

Agreed, and TRUE conservatives D and R need to be building up the ALREADY EXISTING Constitution Party (http://constitutionparty.com/), Conservative Party (http://americanconservativeparty.org/), and/or even the Libertarian Party (http://www.lp.org/)

60% of Americans say they are conservative. That being the case then why is this government so unconservative?

Because everyone keeps voting their own idiot Congresscritters in BOTH parties back into office.

Hanna, welcome to America. Well said.

WHEN/if Obama loses, I say bring on the riots! It’s the conservatives who have guns and aren’t afraid to use them in self-defense.

Oct 17, 2008 - 2:05 pm 171. dan:

Well, the former head of GAO under both Clinton & Bush II, among others, is apparently pretty freaked out. Moreover, the gross math seems to be pretty convincing. Finally, they don’t call it “the third rail” of politics for nothing.

Actually, what’s most cynical is promising something you know very well you can’t deliver. Consider, if you will, the “implicit/not-implicit” backing of the Federal Government that is, at bottom, the cause for the FNMA/Freddie problem. “Oops – you mean you guys actually believed us?”

Social Security benefits and other entitlements are the perfect example of this. This the social democrats on every continent will sooner rather than later be brought to understand with unfortunate clarity.

And consider, if you will, which is the more extravagant claim: that by pursuing one’s self interest, the general welfare will gradually rise for an increasing, though never total, number of the population – or that, having reached a certain level of development, the government/society can provide all basics of life and more, in perpetuity, forever?

Come on. You know the answer.

Oct 17, 2008 - 2:10 pm 172. Sandy Salt:

crafty,
you are back to your snide condesending remarks. You are lumping social conservatives in with conservatives in reference to smaller governement and lower taxes. That is what built the right wing extremist the we now have that a seeking a theocracy of their liking. There is a place in government to enforce labor laws and protect individuals rights, but that doesn’t mean that it goes hand and hand with social programs. I don’t think deep south social programs were right and the feds had to step in to ensure everyones rights. That doesn’t mean that it required a special spending just laws and law enforcement. This board just goes to show what is wrong in America today. We aren’t that far apart in reality it is just the extremes that have hijacked American politics. I see no one took me up on my offer to sit and solve the problems this country faces with real ideas that can be turned into real actions. It is more of the same name calling and foot stomping.

Oct 17, 2008 - 2:16 pm 173. crafty b:

166. Sandy Salt:

jane,
I can answer where the money comes from, the same place that it always does the military.

Oct 17, 2008 – 1:51 pm

Sandy.. Our military spends an equal amount as EVERY MILITARY ON THE PLANET COMBINED. If, like a good Conservative, you don’t believe in imperialistic military endeavors and only want the military to be for true defense (not the 1984-esque Euphemism of “Defense” that we currently use for what is truly Offense) from foreign aggressors of OUR territory , then how can you reconcile our Military expenditures with your Conservative beliefs? If we take a Truly genuine Conservative standing on Foreign Affairs and fiscal issues, that level of Military spending is utterly indefensible.

Oct 17, 2008 - 2:16 pm 174. deguello:

FREDER: Your doctor called: He’s wooried about the results of your wassernan test.

Oct 17, 2008 - 2:23 pm 175. Robot:

“Reagan’s principles are still sound”? Are you kidding? Do you have some evidence to support that statement?

Oct 17, 2008 - 2:27 pm 176. Michele C:

I have actually wondered, “Where can we go live while things go bad here in so many ways with these far-leftists?” England? Australia? There is no new world to go pioneering in – not that I could do that anyway.

Oct 17, 2008 - 2:29 pm 177. Red Blooded American:

I guess we’ll likely be finding out what happens if McCain loses. Even the Chicago Tribune, which has never endorsed a Democrat before, just endorsed Obama:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-chicago-tribune-endorsement,0,1371034.story

Of course, it’s all part of the MSM conspiracy. And Warren Buffett is a socialist.

Oct 17, 2008 - 2:31 pm 178. dan:

The proposition that the US military expenditure is “imperialistic” is pure socialist babytalk.

The USA spends as much on defense as it does because it provides the security architecture upon which global security is negotiated. Perhaps you have heard of World Wars 1 and 2 and the USSR?

It is “conservative” to support an architecture which has so obviously, to the non-Left, been so beneficial to so many who in any other age *would* have been the objects of outright unapologetic imperialism (but cf. the USSR).

It is incredible how the historical butchers, merely by being defeated or exhausted by wars they started, have figured out how to revenge themselves with this “imperialist!” bullsh*t.

Reminds me of the Mayor of Verona’s retort that the Montagues and Capulets hated each other so much that they even “find ways to slay your joys with love.”

Do you people really think the world is full of people who love each other or who would be satisfied with economic struggle if only the horrible USA would stop manipulating them or stop making all those shiny weapons?

It’s depressing how the phrase “useful idiot” never stops being applicable.

Oct 17, 2008 - 2:32 pm 179. crafty b:

“The USA spends as much on defense as it does because it provides the security architecture upon which global security is negotiated.”

OK, and is that a Classical Conservative theory or a NeoClassical one?

Because if I understand Classical Conservatism, which many who are clamoring to distance themselves from the current Republican Party claim to eschew, it is NOT a proponent of using the US Military to police the world (re: “provide the security architecture upon which global security is negotiated”).

You can’t have it both ways. If Bush and the Republican party is Conservatism, then just stop trying to distance yourselves from its failures.

Oct 17, 2008 - 2:43 pm 180. crafty b:

176. Michele C:

Oct 17, 2008 – 2:29 pm

Well Michelle, let’s think about it.

Do you not find it somewhat Ironic that just about every single country that an American would find suitable to move to is LIBERAL in society and has a government that is LEFT of ours? Hmmmmm… what a strange coincedence. I guess if you want to move to a country that is to the Right of us, your choices are limited to a few Middle-Eastern Countries that our Republicans ironically demonize.

You’d probably find Saudi Arabia Conservative enough for you. Maybe Iran. You know, places where they’ll publicly stone you for believing in the wrong God or allowing a woman to speak to the wrong man. Those are the countries to the Right of the US in Governance.

But Scandinavia, Japan, Canada and other Countries to our immediate Left… you know, places with very little poverty, freedom of association and movement, long life expectancies, equality of the sexes, 100% literacy rates, world’s highest standards of living, all that stuff… no, those are run by EVIL LIB’RALS and LEFTIST SOCIALIST GOVERNMENTS!!! HOW TERRIBLE THOSE PLACES MUST BE!!!

Food for thought.

Oct 17, 2008 - 2:55 pm 181. MNotaro:

What if McCain loses? That is the question right? I am scared of what the lefty illuminati politicians will come up with and where it will take our country with their over liberal views!

Oct 17, 2008 - 3:15 pm 182. Ratatosk:

The proposition that the US military expenditure is “imperialistic” is pure socialist babytalk.

The USA spends as much on defense as it does because it provides the security architecture upon which global security is negotiated. Perhaps you have heard of World Wars 1 and 2 and the USSR?

Uhhh… you do realize that Conservative and “this was useful” aren’t always the same, right? See, CONSERVATIVE philosophy would argue that a government should not have a standing military, or if it did… that it would be small and defensive… not LARGE and OFFENSIVE.

Support the war if you like (su[pport a large army, if you like), I don’t necessarily think its a bad idea, but IF you support it, then don’t CLAIM to be conservative.

People are so confused these days about politics. I saw anarchists protesting a couple years ago… they were protesting because some federal funds dried up for a library. That’s not anarchism, its just silly.

If you’re a conservative, then at least get an idea about the philosophy If you’re conservative, except you support Homeland Security (bigger government), the Patriot Act (more power to government), the War in Iraq (offensive millitary) then please, identify with the correct political alignment which, for lack of a better term seems to be neoconservative.

I don’t care if you have a harvard degree or a fifth grade education, just try to get your terms right.

Oct 17, 2008 - 3:22 pm 183. Chuck Pelto:

TO: crafty b
RE: SS/Medicare Funding and Priorities

The programs CAN be funded, it’s just a simple matter of PRIORITIES. — crafty b

Yeah. Like porkbarrel earmarks.

And PRIORITIES is why the electorate is moving overwhelmingly towards the Democrats today. — crafty b

Nobody said they were ’smart’. After all, earmarks are a bane imposed on US by both sides of the aisle.

— crafty b

Like I said, not everybody is particularly ’smart’. And Democrat-controlled Congresses have raided Social Security and Medicare as well as Republican. But most people weren’t smart enough to pay much attention to what they were doing.

If we put the money that has already been spent on the Iraq War into SS & Medicare, there wouldn’t be a debate today. — crafty b

Oh boy. I can’t wait for the nukes to go off in NYC, LA, SanFran, Vegas, DC, MIami, Chicago, Denver and Orlando, if Obama wins and Iran gets its nuke capabilities. And as horrible as that may be, it will reduce the influence of the Democrats, having lost so many of their constituents.

So what would The One do in THAT scenario?

Regards,

Chuck(le)

Oct 17, 2008 - 3:23 pm 184. M. Bright:

The only “transfer of wealth,” I’m aware of is the transfer of 700 billion dollars to a bunch of Republicans in the banking, credit and insurance industries.

That said, I think you should have yourself checked out by a neurologist. You might have a brain tumor, unless of course it’s possible to be born senile.

Oct 17, 2008 - 3:26 pm 185. Chuck Pelto:

TO: crafty b
RE: ERRATA

That third item in my previous comment to you should have read as follows….

Many, many people think the Republicans’ sense of Priority is downright insanity. — crafty b

Something to do with HTML and a misplaced ‘carrot’ character.

My apologies….

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Only PERFECT SPELLERS may communicat properly in HTML.]

Oct 17, 2008 - 3:28 pm 186. Chuck Pelto:

P.S. THIS SYSTEM NEEDS PREVIEW!!!!

Oct 17, 2008 - 3:29 pm 187. Eric R.:

My question is who will the next generation of GOP leaders be?

We don’t have a strong bench.

Palin might still be a force if they lose narrowly, in a rout, she’s finished.

Jindal will only be 41 in 2012, probably too young to run, and let’s be honest — he’s THE big young star of the GOP.

Eric Cantor? Tough to make the move from the House to the White House?

In 1952, the GOP turned to a General. Will we be able to ge Petraeus?

Oct 17, 2008 - 3:48 pm 188. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: M [Not So] Bright & the ~~Soviet</strike….er….Socialist….~~

That said, I think you should have yourself checked out by a neurologist. You might have a brain tumor, unless of course it’s possible to be born senile. — M [Not So] Bright

….approach to dealing with people who disagree with them.

’nuff said.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. At least this one is not calling for concentration camps and mutilation after killing.

Oct 17, 2008 - 3:48 pm 189. Chuck Pelto:

Dang!!!!

That should have read….

TO: All
RE: M [Not So] Bright & the Soviet….er….Socialist….

That said, I think you should have yourself checked out by a neurologist. You might have a brain tumor, unless of course it’s possible to be born senile. — M [Not So] Bright

….approach to dealing with people who disagree with them.

’nuff said.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
P.S. At least this one is not calling for concentration camps and mutilation after killing.

Is this the Socialist approach to ‘kinder-gentler’?

Oct 17, 2008 - 3:51 pm 190. Wilma:

Here is a look at our future is obama is elected.

http://usawakeup.org/mission.htm

Oct 17, 2008 - 3:57 pm 191. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: Hey!

I just realized it, but crafty b, falls into the same group as M [Not So] Bright, when he/she/it describes Republicans as ‘insane’.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Birds....Feathers....and Flocks.....]

Oct 17, 2008 - 4:06 pm 192. Winston:

then get out and vote for McCain

Oct 17, 2008 - 4:13 pm 193. boqueronman:

Conservatives must return to basic principles: small and practical government and personal and economic freedom, and respect for private property. As Hawkins rightly puts it the “we’re the lesser of two evils” approach is unsustainable for any political party. And that is what the Bush administration and the late, unlamented Republican Congress appeared to think they were.

Thank you crafty b, like a blind squirrel you have found several acorns. He (or she) is 100% correct that a huge standing army is not a fundamental conservative principle. During the world wars and cold war such a structure could be justified. But those times are over. The threat the West, or the tattered remains of it, faces is mostly existential, with a dollop of private terrorism and rogue state adventurism funded by petrodollars.

Is an inflated multi-million member military the best way to fight these threats? Although I might be convinced, I think not. The first step, unlikely to be possible under an Obama administration but who knows, is a crash program of energy dependency reduction – oil, natural gas and shale exploitation for the short term as the economy transitions into new more efficient technologies. Europe is well into its death spiral – from cultural ennui, fertilitity collapse and welfare state overcommitments. A short term program for reform of NATO and withdrawl of the permanent U.S. military presence must be accepted and pursued.

The next 4 years must be the opening of a new dialogue among conservatives of both major parties and libertarians to formulate and market an integrated, comprehensive program of structural reform encompassing local, state and federal governments. The coming entitlement tsunami mentioned earlier is just around the corner. If memory serves, the FICA surplus begins to decline in 2010; the SS payouts exceed FICA revenues by 2017 and from that point we face $53 trillion in unfunded liabilities thru 2050. No need to mention Medicare and Medicaid (or their soon to be gargantuan successors) are in even worse trouble.

Crafty b has unwittingly pointed out an important truth. Conservatives are going to have to play 52 card pick up. But the process will only be successful if all 52 cards are tossed in the air.

Oct 17, 2008 - 4:27 pm 194. RepNoLonger:

the conservative movement and the country are going to have hell to pay for the feckless leadership we’ve had from the Republican Party over the last few years.

Have you looked at your 401k statement lately? I have and I’m already paying for fecklessness.

Oct 17, 2008 - 4:45 pm 195. dan:

conservative means what?

let’s back up. socialism is an ideology; it is entirely ideational – no socialist society has ever existed. non-socialists of all stripes are forced to reformulate their basic sensibilities in an ideological manner in order to *respond* to the socialists, whose target is everything that exists.

it is Conservative to be for small government and strong national defense in the USA and Anglosphere generally because in those countries these have been the traditional goals of the populace. in france, ‘conservative’ essentially means ‘royalist’; in russia, ‘autocracy’; in the arab world, ‘theocracy’ – or some rough formulation thereof.

you see where i’m going, however imperfectly i’m expressing it here.

with respect to the USA, conservatives believe in small divided government because they believe in limited government intrusion, as for example see the 4th Amendment regarding searches & seizures. we believe in strong defense because no country in the world believes in weak defense – except for those citizens whose minds have been colonized by Soviet propoganda which convinces its victims to believe that weak native defense does *not* in fact mean weaker defense against *communism.*

it is true that the USA has not really had traditionally conservative government since calvin coolidge.

gee.

i wonder why?

Oh – what happened in 1929? The Great Depression.

What happened in 1939-1945?

In fact, what happened between 1914 and the mid-1960s?

Oh yeah – those ‘conservative’ empires annihilated each other. and who was left? the USA and the USSR. so the USA…

do i really need to go on? as ‘conservatism’ is not an ideology in the manner of socialism, it is fact-bound. if something as profound as WW2 or the communist co-option (the “imperial” co-option, if you will) of great previously non-communist swaths of the globe in, say 2 decades, a thoughtful conservative does not retreat into some irretrievable fantasy geostrategic environment. he simply looks at the available alternatives and tries to preserve as much of what’s preservable.

well, it turns out “small government” responsible for European, Japanese, and Anglosphere security (non-communism) in general is not inexpensive. add to that a country of several hundred million people, and things get very expensive.

conservatives look at this as quasi-tragic. socialists look at this as an invitation to enact their fantasies of equality & peace through mists of hatred and cultural bowdlerization. also, lost in their struggle to master the idiot complexity of their little thought-world, they don’t have time learn much about the previous history of mankind, which they themselves would regard as ‘conservative.’

Oct 17, 2008 - 4:52 pm 196. Evan:

I would expect we would have a lot of discussions on gun ownership if BO wins, could get very interesting.

Oct 17, 2008 - 5:28 pm 197. vivo:

156. Chuck Pelto:

“….and vivo’s….

That’s what your Nazi mentality thinks… —

Both full of mindless hatred and other lovely stuff.

[The Truth will out.]”

If I misinterpreted you, then you should write more clearly. What were you talking about “concentration camps”? You started it. What does this have to do with anything? That’s where the Nazi mentality reference comes from. Your writings sound delirious at times, like somebody in a haze.

Oct 17, 2008 - 5:29 pm 198. rcd33b:

It will likely take a literal miracle for the GOP to win this Presidential race. It is hard to believe that the radical left will be in charge of this country, lock, stock and barrel. They will have so much to do to serve their own agenda that they’ll scarcely be able to do it in two to four years.
The “Fairness Doctrine” will be on the agenda. The destruction of the Second Amendment will be high on the list along with serious laws against defending your home, family and self with a firearm, hunting rifle or otherwise. Affirmative action will become solidly entrenched, even more than it is. Persecution of Christians and Christian institutions will accelerate into overdrive, along with the continuing move by the left to remove any semblance of God from American culture.
Taxes, a move back to no oil drilling on land or sea and the resulting loss of income, increase in consumer prices will take full flight and the plight of the average American family will become desperate.
These are things I personally view as the sad and dangerous result of the election of Obama. I think that many Americans who vote for Obama honestly don’t view the long term losses of freedom we are in for. The information to know this ahead of time is out there, but the media has successfully elected themselves a radical left social and political President.
On top of all this is the current division of secular and “social” conservatives. This in-house cat fight came about at the worst time possible and the GOP have no one to blame but themselves for this additional stress upon the conseravitve foundation. Talk about short-sighted, suicidal and self-destructive. I’m disgusted.
Pass the flak jackets and helmets and hunker down, boys. We’re about to get shelled hard and heavy by an arrogant, cynical, ugly, foaming at the mouth, power hungry, ultra-radical, one-world, socialist fueled left wing party of mad-men.

Oct 17, 2008 - 6:16 pm 199. mishu:

Barry = Hitler.

Oct 17, 2008 - 6:37 pm 200. Virginia Veteran:

I love the right-wing name calling. The Dems are not socialists. You can thank Bush/Cheney/McCain for socializing Wall Street, the mortgage system, and now “nationalizing” the banking system. Bush has run the economy of this country into the ground. Reagan also ran up huge debts. Only under Clinton did we finally achieve a surplus.

If McCain won, he would continue to surround himself with idiotic advisers and other former Wall Street cronies. Hell, the head of his transition team was a consultant to Saddam Hussein — what more proof do you want of his totalitarian ideas? Those idiots surrounding McCain would DESTROY what remains of our economy. The Big 3 automakers would all close shop. The only manufacturing capability we’d have would be the military contractors who continue to bilk billions from the government. McCain would just hand them more money to build more systems that we won’t even see operational for 20 years (at which time they will be obsolete).

Pray to your gods that McCain does not win. He has proven his economic ineptness. Please open your eyes and see what a financial disaster he would bring. If you have children like I do, I hope you want their futures to be better — McCain is not the answer.

If you really want McCain to win, just stay home. Then when he loses on Nov 4th, all of you can go with McCain and Palin to Alaska and fulfill Todd Palin’s dream of having Alaska secede from the U.S. You can have your polar bear and moose meat orgy and go ahead and drill the hell out of ANWR. Just take your hate and stupidity with you to the arctic.

Oct 17, 2008 - 7:15 pm 201. Mandy:

After the past eight years, how could ANYTHING be worse? Well, Sarah Palin could be President … But if so-called “conservatives” are scaring themselves so much, and so needlessly — if you don’t like it here, go ahead and GET OUT! The country wilol be cleaner, more intelligent and saner as a result.

Oct 17, 2008 - 7:23 pm 202. Anonymous:

No, cause unfortunately America was the last non-socialist, non-communist, non-fanaticism, or despot country in the world. There is no where else to go. So we can either secede or do the reasonable thing and wait four years, vote, and kick the socialist out of both parties.

Oct 17, 2008 - 7:28 pm 203. Anti-Socialist:

Oct 17, 2008 - 7:29 pm 204. John Galt jr.:

The John Galt option is looking better and better. My investment guy already has orders to begin cashing out all my investments immediately if Obamasiah is elected. Checks will be cashed into gold, which will undoubtedly rise in value as the stock market crashes. Hopefully, my wife and dogs and I will survive the next 4 years and, hopefully, the country will come to it’s senses and vote out the dem neo socialists we now have in congress along with the totally ineffective prez(if the idiot hasn’t already been assassinated). Then I will again cautiously re invest my money, which has probably been increased by playing the gold market.

Oct 17, 2008 - 7:32 pm 205. Dave Surls:

“In fact, what happened between 1914 and the mid-1960s?”

The liberal Democrats got us into four major wars, none of which were any of our business, forced millions of Americans into involuntary servitude in the armed forces, and got 600,000 of them killed in crapholes like France and Vietnam.

That’s one of the reasons I NEVER vote for Democrats.

Oct 17, 2008 - 7:50 pm 206. Kevin:

Maybe Alaska will finally secede and we can all move there.

Oct 17, 2008 - 8:30 pm 207. crafty b:

“191. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: Hey!

I just realized it, but crafty b, falls into the same group as M [Not So] Bright, when he/she/it describes Republicans as ‘insane’.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Birds....Feathers....and Flocks.....]

Oct 17, 2008 – 4:06 pm”

Well, actually, I didn’t describe Republicans as insane. I said that many in the electorate are beginning to see the Republican party’s priorities as borderline insanity.

And given that in the your prior post to your feigned offense at my oh-so-insensitive “insanity” comment you said that you “can’t wait” for the nuclear bombing of many of America’s largest cities because it’ll help your political party win elections, I’d say I was dead on! You’ve got some INSANE priorities, that’s for sure!

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:16 pm 208. Edward A.:

What if McCain loses?

No need to worry, no one could do any more damage to the US than Bush these last eight years.

McCain would only continue the Bush policies with disastrous results. If you a believer in prayer, now is the time to say one for the US and a Obama win.

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:31 pm 209. I FEAR A DEMOCRAT GOVERNMENT:

I LOVE Virginia Veteran! His/her argument essentially boils down to this typical Democrat gibberish:

- The Republicans are socialists.
- They’re in bed with the capitalists on Wall Street.
- They nationalized the banks and put them under government control which is what the greedy capitalists on Wall Street wanted them to do.
- McCain wants to continue socializing the country while turning it over to greedy bankers and capitalism.
- Obama wants to socialize health care and spread the wealth, and that’s why things are going to change from the last administration.

Okay. I get it now. So when do the UFOs land?

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:36 pm 210. I FEAR A DEMOCRAT GOVERNMENT:

Oh Yeah, one other thing. And Virginia Veteran is worried that the Big 3 auto makers are going to close! hahahahahahahahhahahahaha

Well, aren’t they “evil corporations” that shaft the workers? I’m glad Obama is going to tax the living h… out of them. They deserve it for being wealthy and powerful. Why, I bet you that Dick Cheney plays golf with the CEOs of these companies.

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:39 pm 211. Dave Surls:

“The Republicans are socialists.”

Well, they are. Unfortunately, the Democrats are even worse.

Oct 17, 2008 - 9:59 pm 212. BC:

If McCain loses….

1) The rest of the world will exhale in relief

2) The army of corrupt incompetents who came in during Bush’s term, and now peppering the federal government, will start “updating” their resumes.

3) The air will seem fresher, the mornings crisper, the days warmer, and the week ahead filled with hope and anticipation.

4) God will go back to shedding His grace on us.

For starters.

Oct 17, 2008 - 10:05 pm 213. Clint:

Canada, no.

Alaska, maybe.

Oct 17, 2008 - 10:10 pm 214. Ralph:

Mandy, You say get out? We are the ones who know what this country means. What the founders intended and what we have always been. Your party started a civil war to keep slavery. This country could have banned it or let it die a necessary death but your party couldn’t take that. Your party always sides with evil, sometimes good but even that it turns to evil. That is why yours is the oldest party. That is it’s nature. Evil never dies. Good can compromise and die. Our country was founded on good. We are compromising.

If you want sweden or france then you move there. Quit trying to ruin this country. Leave it. You obviously don’t care for it anyway. Go. France welcomes you. Give a wide birth to the muslims though they don’t like pushy women too much.

Oct 17, 2008 - 10:10 pm 215. Anonymous:

wefvwegeq

Oct 17, 2008 - 10:31 pm 216. RE:

The main problem we face if McCain Loses is the fact that the Democrats have so little respect for the Constitution – as is amply evidenced by their efforts to dilute it (Fairness doctrine, gun control, etc ) and subordinate it to ‘International Law’. It’s that calavier ‘Living document’ attitude they have about it every time it stands in the way of their whims.

That is exactly the opposite of what America is about. American was founded as an alternative to the world’s oppressive regimes. We are to be represented by elected officials – not some unelected despots club.

Ayers, Dohrn, Wright, Davis…

Obama will not be acting in the interest of American sovereignty. In his mindset, that’s a bad thing. Nor will he be a defender of the American idea notion of individual liberty. In his mindset, we are subjects. The state will decide what we each individually deserve, what we are to think, and what we are to do. So yes, I do consider Obama anti-American. Very much so. How can anyone who believes in this nation’s founding principles possibly think otherwise? Obama runs contrary to all of them.

Enjoy your freedoms while they last. The left has been working hard at eroding them for decades. It appears that they may be on the brink of a big payoff. People will come to regret their complacency, ignorance, apathy, and naive Utopianism soon enough.

Oct 18, 2008 - 3:42 am 217. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: Is vivo….

….on drugs or mentally impaired by them?

If I misinterpreted you, then you should write more clearly. What were you talking about “concentration camps”? — vivo

Here, vivo asks if he/she/it ‘misinterpreted’ me about Nazi activities, i.e., ‘concentration camps’.

I would say he/she/it did. The reason is not FULLY understood, but I can take a guess.

You started it. — vivo

Here vivo seems to think that I started this aspect of the discussion, but seems….for some strange reason {nudge-nudge, wink-wink} to forget that he/she/it was the first to use the term “Nazi” in posts involving me.

Again, one can only GUESS why he/she/it can’t remember that in comment #138 (above).

What does this have to do with anything? — vivo

Additional evidence of a lack of logical thought and/or history being taught in the vaunted American public education system. He/she/it cannot make a connection between ‘Nazis’ and ‘concentration camps’.

Maybe we should start a fund to send he/she/it on a short trip to visit one of those horrors of the 20th Century. It would certainly do more for them than their public education did.

That’s where the Nazi mentality reference comes from. Your writings sound delirious at times, like somebody in a haze. — vivo

To someone on drugs or brain-damaged from the over use, I can well imagine that anything would sound ‘delirious’.

RE: In the End

I imagine that vivo and their ilk look forward to the end of the War on Drugs and the government providing them ALL the drugs they need to keep stupified. And it will make the business of government so much easier for the elites.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[They take drugs very seriously at their house...]

Oct 18, 2008 - 4:40 am 218. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: Virginia Veteran & Name Calling

I love the right-wing name calling. — Virginia Veteran

I sure hope so. He’s going to get a LOT of it. Let’s hope he can absorb it better than most Obamanations. They seem to have rather thin skins and not enough mental ‘armor’ to protect themselves from the slings and arrows of outrageous conservatives.

If you doubt that, consider THIS REPORT of how just seeing a sign that disagrees with their mentality as reason to assault the person carrying the sign.

Maybe that explains why he/she/it likes the name-calling. Gives them an ‘excuse’ to behave badly.

And, under an administration of The One, we can expect any disagreement with The One’s policies to be justification for a visit by the Secret Service. See THIS ITEM for evidence. And let’s not forget how The One’s people tried to get the prosecutors in Missouri to go after television stations that aired commercials that disagreed with The One. Nor the latest evidence of what will likely happen if The One gets into the Oval Office…..SEE THIS and ponder.

RE: Virginia Veteran &

The Dems are not socialists. — Virginia Veteran

And all the ‘evidence’ that this so-called ‘veteran’ provides proves it. Right?

RE: Virginia Veteran & Reality

You can thank Bush/Cheney/McCain for socializing Wall Street, the mortgage system, and now “nationalizing” the banking system. — Virginia Veteran

I suspect that this person doesn’t recall that the Wall Street melt-down has been building up through BOTH Democratic and Republican administrations.

RE: The ‘Virginia Veteran’

I’m curious as to what he/she/it is a veteran of. Maybe they’ll expound on that to give US a better understanding.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[God is alive....and airborne-ranger qualified. And so am I.]

Oct 18, 2008 - 4:59 am 219. Chuck Pelto:

TO: crafty b
RE: Insanity (Part 1)

Well, actually, I didn’t describe Republicans as insane. I said that many in the electorate are beginning to see the Republican party’s priorities as borderline insanity. — crafty b

In truth you did. But in an indirect manner.

You said….

Many, many people think the Republicans’ sense of Priority is downright insanity. — crafty b in item #158 @ Oct 17, 2008 – 12:53 pm

I don’t see ANYTHING about ‘borderline’ in your comment.

Typical twisting of reality on the part of your ilk.

And given that in the your prior post to your feigned offense at my oh-so-insensitive “insanity” comment you said that you “can’t wait” for the nuclear bombing of many of America’s largest cities because it’ll help your political party win elections, I’d say I was dead on! You’ve got some INSANE priorities, that’s for sure! — crafty b

Isn’t it a shame that sarcasm doesn’t come across well in this medium.

In truth, having worked in exercises at the state and regional level in order to prepare for a possible nuclear accident or attack, I’m all too familiar with what to expect.

Thank you for taking the scenario proposed as a lead-in to the question I wanted to have answered in such an indirect manner and twisting it around to seem that I wish for such a mass murder to happen. Having trained in it for ten years of my military career, I certainly don’t. But I will admit that I am glad to no longer be living in one of the targeted areas.

On the other hand, you failed to answer the question I asked at the end of the proposed scenario….what would The One do in a case like that? Especially if the devices were manufactured in Iran or Pakistan?

So? What would The One do if a nuke from Iran or Pakistan went off in one or several or all of those metropolitan areas?

I’m eagerly await your response to the question I posed to you initially…and you screwed up….probably deliberately. But if not, then for the same reason that vivo has problems…if you ask me…..

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid.]

Oct 18, 2008 - 5:18 am 220. Chuck Pelto:

TO: BC
RE: Really?

God will go back to shedding His grace on us. — BC

Which “God” is that? Do you mean The One?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[I am a Democrat, that is my religion. -- All the Democrats I know]

Oct 18, 2008 - 5:24 am 221. Reggie:

I find it funny these NeoCons love calling Obama, Reid and Pelosi Socialists but George Bush by definition and actions has been more Socialist than the three put together with this now 850 Billion dollar bailout package. Not rescue package, Bailout Wall Street Tycoons package. Has bloated the size of government more than any president in history, and had doubled down tax cuts only to triple size government spending. That is socialist. The fact that taxpayers already are on the hook for Bush’s bad judgements is reason enough the Repugnants need to be out. The fact Repugs have had both sides of the house from 1994 to the end of 2006 shows exactly where, how this problem was created. Pure greed, arrogance, and a credit card maxed out by trillions of dollars of spending and cash advances (namely the 500 Billion we owe China). This was done by Republicans period. So for them to sit on their high horse and blame Dems for being tax and spend people is astounding to me right now when all the Republicans have done since 2000 is tax and spend. I just think fear, hate mongering is all they have left until 2012. The good news is that they have some young up and comers for 2012 that may restore their tarnished image but it’s gonna take some work for sure. The writer talks about being scared of Obama associatons but I fear them no more than the Bush Cheney Rove led Republican Party from 2000 to Present. This has been the most scandal ridden, deceptive, and dishonorable administration and party in the history of politics during their reign and they have set the bar so low for Obama that any progress or sucesses he would pull off would be seen as a success. That is what is really scary.

Oct 18, 2008 - 6:08 am 222. clm34:

So, if I get the flow here, everything about the Democrats is socialist and fascist? Wow, that is so ridiculous I can’t even put my head around it. I am a Republican and I am voting for McCain. But I am not a conspiracy theorist and am not demented enough to think Obama is the enemy. All this right wing hate speak is tempting me to actually rethink my vote. Do you realize that this kind of talk in the campaign is alienating moderate Republicans?

Oct 18, 2008 - 6:28 am 223. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: clm34

So, if I get the flow here, everything about the Democrats is socialist and fascist? — clm34

Obviously clm34 has serious issues with logic. As in because all Democrats, at least those who support The One, are socialists—Obama being among the most socialist of them all—they’re all fascists.

Can somebody get this character a copy of Wff ‘N Proof.

Wow, that is so ridiculous I can’t even put my head around it. — clm34

Must be a rather small head. Drugs will do that, I hear.

I am a Republican and I am voting for McCain. — clm34

If he/she/it will show us their voter registration form I might believe the first part. And I’ll only believe the latter part if he/she/it shows US his ballot. Otherwise, based on everything else he/she/it says here, I think their lying.

But I am not a conspiracy theorist and am not demented enough to think Obama is the enemy. — clm34

As if there were no such thing as ‘conspiracies’. When anyone who has more than a couple of synapses to rub together knows that companies conspire against each other, politicians conspire against each other, governments conspire against each other….and in some cases against their own citizens.

As I said earlier, ‘a rather small head’.

All this right wing hate speak is tempting me to actually rethink my vote. — clm34

Bull-pucky. Another indicator that this character is a poor example of a liar.

Do you realize that this kind of talk in the campaign is alienating moderate Republicans? — clm34

And a third example of the same.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Truth hurts.....only those who are afraid of it.]

Oct 18, 2008 - 6:49 am 224. George007:

READERS BEWARE OF THE REPO TEAM!!!! Thats Reid,Pelosi and Obummer!!

Oct 18, 2008 - 6:49 am 225. Jill:

John: First and foremost, conservatives would be too busy working (somebody has to pay for the massive wealth transfer programs Obama wants to implement) to go out in the streets with giant puppet heads and “ObamaHitler” signs.

Jill: Wrong. Already conservative and non-conservative business owners are breaking up their businesses, firing employees, and not investing in the future in response to a potential O presidency. Some will move their company to a more business-friendly country. Employees are thinking of moving out of the country to work. People like Joe the Plumber will try to survive the storm, hoping it won’t last, but will take the brunt of taxes until their efforts collapse. It is wiser not to start any new businesses. People will work fewer hours. Couples with two incomes might live on one; usually the woman will stay home with the kids and place her career on hold. People just starting out their career may go back to school and surf for a few years, waiting for a more opportune time. For some, working will be more costly than doing nothing. The rank of welfare recipients will increase. It isn’t true that we will pay for massive wealth transfer programs because when taxes are high, people work less, and government takes in lower revenues. The incentive to work is missing under socialism.

John: Nor would we be inclined to threaten riots, unlike some liberals who have essentially promised Rodney King verdict-style bedlam in the streets if Barack Obama loses. Also, conservatives love our country too much to make empty threats about moving to Canada, which is essentially just a less free, more liberal version of Massachusetts anyway.

Jill: We won’t abandon our country, true. But, what other nation holds rights from God as self-evident? None. There is no other nation like the USA and no replacement. Conservatives will not riot because they respect other people’s property rights. Don’t put it passed them, however, to revolt. Two issues anger them: oil drilling and bail-outs. They are already riled. Over-tax them, stop business growth, punish incentive to work, squash free speech and participation in the process…no telling how Americans who “cling to religion and guns” will respond.

John: However, you can expect people to get a little nuttier. Yes, that means the black helicopter crowd will be back and their ranks will be thickened by the North American Union kooks who’ve gotten an early start on the “political crazy Olympics.” And let’s face it: if you thought the nuttiness surrounding Clinton was bad, wait until you get a load of the conspiracy theories that would be spawned by a president who “attended a madrassa as a child, went to an anti-white, anti-American church for 20 years, was once a member of a socialist party, and pals around with terrorists like Bill Ayers.”

Jill: I imagine that free speech will continue to be a problem for the Socialist Democrats with legal punishments for those who break the new laws and caricaturizing any who dissent from the Democtratic Party. The MSM will continue to do their part to destroy freedom.

John: There also will have to be a retooling of the conservative agenda. Reagan’s principles are still sound, but the GOP will be waiting a long time to get back into power if we keep trying to run on the remnants of Reagan’s agenda.
Jill: The “Reagan agenda” is free market capitalism and a Constitutional Republic.

John: Last but not least, there’s one more key question that has to be asked: when will the lethargy that has gripped most conservatives since 2004 finally be replaced with the sort of fiery desire that has animated liberals over the last few years?
It will probably begin about the time Obama and company shove through the first bad piece of socialist-inspired legislation. Regrettably, that is likely to be the first moment this utter disaster for the country will become real to millions of conservatives.

Jill: Conservatives are not asleep and know the disaster about to fall on the USA. Democratic Party constituents might realize the disaster at that time, but I doubt it. People who cannot recognize a socialist candidate when they see him will not recognize socialist laws, either. Even if they do, they are likely to think those are better than free market capitalism, the Bill of Rights, and the classic US form of government.

You seem to be stuck in party politics as though this election is a horse race between two equally valid and good platforms. Instead, we’re in a war for our country: Americans vs Socialists. The American people are deciding between two economic systems, and the socialist one requires a new form of government with central planning, stronger and bigger federal government, and force to impose back-crushing taxes (Ex: USSR, Cuba, China, France). If Obama wins, we’ll be the United Socialist States of America.

Oct 18, 2008 - 7:18 am 226. General:

I believe that Senator Obama, whatever his other talents, is the most committed ”abortion-rights” presidential candidate of either major party since the Roe v. Wade abortion decision in 1973. Despite what Prof. Kmiec suggests, the party platform Senator Obama runs on this year is not only aggressively ”pro-choice;” it has also removed any suggestion that killing an unborn child might be a regrettable thing. On the question of homicide against the unborn child – and let’s remember that the great Lutheran pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer explicitly called abortion ”murder” – the Democratic platform that emerged from Denver in August 2008 is clearly anti-life.

Oct 18, 2008 - 7:35 am 227. mike:

chucky pelto…What the hell are u smoking?

Oct 18, 2008 - 7:41 am 228. Chuck Pelto:

TO: mike
RE: [OT] Smok’n Habits

I prefer A. Fuente’s Hemingway line.

What’s your point?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[He who hates vice, hates mankind.]

Oct 18, 2008 - 7:56 am 229. Chuck Pelto:

P.S. For the pipe, I prefer an nice Cavendish blend with a touch of Latakia….

Oct 18, 2008 - 7:57 am 230. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: General’s Point….

….the Democratic platform that emerged from Denver in August 2008 is clearly anti-life. — General

….taken, collectively with vivo, Godless Homosexual Socialist and some others I’ve noticed in this thread, I think we can recognize a political party based on ‘death’. That is ‘death’ to their opposition, ‘death’ to the inconvenient, ‘death’ to anything that resembles the Truth and ‘death’ to America.

Being ‘anti-Life’ is certainly being pro-Death. And, based on what we’ve observed these last few weeks, vis-a-vis how Obamanation supporters behave in the vicinity of anyone who disagrees with The One, three guesses as to what we who disagree with The One can expect from an Obamanation.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[And when you see the Abomination that Makes Desolation standing in an place where it ought not be......]

P.S. Sorry, but it just struck me as an interesting juxtaposition….

Oct 18, 2008 - 8:08 am 231. John Galt:

To Marc Malone and All Americans: “This is John Galt speaking. You have heard it said that this is an age of moral crisis. Yes, this is an age of moral crisis. It is your moral code that’s through, this time. Your moral code has reached its climax. You have destroyed all that which you held to be evil and achieved all which you held to be good. You have sacrificed justice to mercy. You have sacrificed independence to unity. You have sacrificed reason to a [false] faith. You have sacrificed wealth to need. Your code declares that the rational man must sacrifice himself to the irrational, the independent man to parasites, the honest man to the dishonest, the man of justice to the unjust, the productive man to thieving loafers, the man of integrity to compromising knaves, the man of self-esteem to sniveling neurotics. [In your code], there are no absolutes; truth is whatever people want it to be; reality is whatever people choose to say it is. [Your "leaders"] proclaim that every man born is entitled to exist without labor and is entitled to receive his ‘minimum sustenance’–his food, his clothes, his shelter–with no effort on his part, as his due and his birthright. Every man owns an equal share of the technological benefits created in the world. Now, you are letting this greatest of countries be devoured by any scum from any corner of the earth, while you concede that is is selfish to live for your country and that your moral duty is to live for the globe. This country was not built by men who sought self-immolation or by men who sought handouts. And, since a country’s political system [and its economic system and its legal system] is based on its code of morality, you will perish in and by your own unreality. But like me–John Galt–those who believe that A is A, and that the truth is true, who have said ‘No’ to your code of inverted morality, we will survive.
(Text from Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand)

Oct 18, 2008 - 8:41 am 232. Robin Dicken:

I’m terribly sorry to say, that your hopes and dreams of Ronnie Ray Gun’s Revolution has finally been exposed for what it is. A backlash from “conservatives”, to equal rights and equal pay for minorities and women. We know how careful you all are not to appear that way! Very careful! But, now and again, the curtain slips back a tad, and it all spills out. You haven’t fooled us, that have been around long enough to remember. Believe me when I tell you, a lot of thought has already gone into countering any backlash that may come from indignant statists. Cold, hard reality has set in, and the world sees it, we see it, and we will make sure that you see it. No more fear mongering. George W. Bush tried that, and it worked- for awhile. But, we now will continue the fight of the 60’s and continue with fervor and renewed vigor, to make sure a Senile President that was a two bit actor, with a chimpanzee for a co-star, will be seen for what he was. A huge joke on the American people. The Liberal’s plight has always been to help everyone, even the pathetic and dumb. We’re the Founding Fathers in our philosophy (Liberal=Liberty) and we will overcome the petty and the ignorant. We will embrace the “people rode dinosaurs” crowd because special needs citizens need our love too.
I’m afraid all of your hero’s will be facing War Crimes indictments fairly soon, though. We mustn’t reward bad behavior. Sorry

Oct 18, 2008 - 8:50 am 233. Mike K:

If oboma wins, I wonder if someone else can sign my military retirement papers. I would not want a person who’s friends include unrepentant domestic terrorist to sign anything for me. You are known by the company you keep, jerks hang with jerks, snobs with snobs ect.

Oct 18, 2008 - 8:56 am 234. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: ‘Robin Dicken’….

….comes across like an Al Qaeda plant/schill.

Don’t you think?

Reading this drivel I’m reminded of recordings of Tokyo Rose and Lord Haha, both of whom supported totalitarians. [Note: Which is another indicator of the mentality of those who support The One.]

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Propaganda, to be effective, must be believed. To be believed, it must be credible. To be credible, it must be true. -- Hubert H. Humphrey]

Oct 18, 2008 - 9:08 am 235. Tim J.:

Count me and quite a few others that I know who are going to leave this once great country if Obama gets elected. None of my wealth will be redistributed to any poor unless they are working for it. Period. I was poor once and worked for what I got and I paid a LOT of taxes along the way and still do. I helped friends start business, they became wealthy as well and they then invested and started new businesses and so on.. Yes, it does trickle down. I used to live in Kentucky but left that state and moved to Florida so I didn’t pay 6% in income taxes. I plan to move my current businesses overseas and become a citizen there.
This once was a country of the free, now it will become free for 95% and the other 5% (the wealthy) will becomes its new slaves.
I don’t think so, Atlas WILL shrug.
Good luck all you socialists I will be following the great fall of America from afar.

Oct 18, 2008 - 9:32 am 236. Daniel:

“It could happen, you know. By “it,” I mean the worst nightmare of any conservative.”

“It” was the election (if you can call it that) of Bush to office in 2000. That ended conservatism as the world knew it and in stepped the insane Neocons, hell-bent on listening only to the Fox echo-chamber and branding all who disagree (using those pesky facts) Anti-American. Now that the Americans overwhelmingly support the other guy, isn’t this site effectively Anti-Americanist, using the same distorted logic they used 8 years ago?

The best thing that could ever happen to this country is for the Neocons to flee it and for a viable third party to take root. You want change? STOP VOTING FOR THE NEOCONS WHO GOT US INTO THIS MESS!!

Oct 18, 2008 - 9:47 am 237. crafty b:

219. Chuck Pelto:

TO: crafty b
RE: Insanity (Part 1)

Well, actually, I didn’t describe Republicans as insane. I said that many in the electorate are beginning to see the Republican party’s priorities as borderline insanity. — crafty b

In truth you did. But in an indirect manner.

You said….

Many, many people think the Republicans’ sense of Priority is downright insanity. — crafty b in item #158 @ Oct 17, 2008 – 12:53 pm

I don’t see ANYTHING about ‘borderline’ in your comment.

Typical twisting of reality on the part of your ilk.

Isn’t it a shame that sarcasm doesn’t come across well in this medium.

In truth, having worked in exercises at the state and regional level in order to prepare for a possible nuclear accident or attack, I’m all too familiar with what to expect.

So? What would The One do if a nuke from Iran or Pakistan went off in one or several or all of those metropolitan areas?

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid.]

Oct 18, 2008 – 5:18 am

OK.. Chuck. I never said anything like your statement that Republicans are insane. Go right ahead and read the quotes you cut and pasted above. They are slightly different in the adjectives chosen because I didn’t take the time to go back and cut and paste, but the substance of the statements is identical. I referenced in both of them “Insanity” in regards to “priorities”. You need to go back to gradeschool english and learn how to diagram a sentance, because you obviously don’t understand what you’re reading due to some form of word dyslexia.

I WILL go out on a limb and say I’m starting to believe that YOU are insane (your priorities too, but that usually goes with the territory with an insane person).

And as for your “what if” scenario. If we were bombed and could trace it back to Iran or Pakistan, all indications are Barack Obama would go after Iran or Pakistan… and John McCain would invade India.

I think you’ve got your candidates confused. Barack Obama has ALWAYS remained focused on those who attacked us on 9/11. He’s the one who wants to move the war from Iraq (where 9/11 WASN’T planned) to Afghanistan (where it WAS). Barack’s the one who has always wanted to make killing Osama Bin Laden (again, 9/11?) an utmost priority, whereby Bush & McCain forgot about him in their zeal for Saddam Hussein (again, NOT 9/11).

So take your titanium partisan blinders off, look at the historical record on who gets distracted from who attacked us and who doesn’t, look at who’s started wars in the wrong country and who was for keeping them in the right country, and answer your own damn hypothetical, mmkay?

Oct 18, 2008 - 10:13 am 238. Jill:

“… God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. … And what country can preserve its liberties, if it’s rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.”

~ Thomas Jefferson, Nov. 13, 1787, Letter to William S. Smith, see Jefferson On Democracy, 20 (S. Padover ed. 1939).

The conservatives are not wrong. But, the black helicopter crowd and patriot miltias would fit that description in the quote: “The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive.” Even so, they are not wrong for speaking out. They are the ones Jefferson was talking about when he wrote: “And what country can preserve its liberties, if it’s rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms.” They are the ones who in the final analysis preserved our nation for so many years.

Oct 18, 2008 - 10:58 am 239. newton:

Christians in this country will have the most to lose in an Obama presidency.

Christian churches are now “gag-ruled” against speaking of politics. It will become much worse, when the first gay or lesbian couple sues a church for denying them a church wedding, or someone being denied a funeral for a relative. Pastors, beware.

Christian charities will be severely regulated, to the point of closing them – because of opposition to homosexuality, abortion, and other reasons. Just look at what happened to Catholic Charities in MA, and the reasons why it no longer offers any adoptions services in that state. That case is a sign of things to come. Christian hospitals will be severely regulated as well.

Christian schools will face a real attack for not teaching Marxist educational ideas. The sole mention of Bill Ayers in an Obama administration should send chills down the spines of many Christian parents. Christian homeschoolers beware, as well. It is very possible that they, too, will suffer for not bowing down to Lord Obama.

Christian-owned businesses will also suffer – from discrimination suits to boycotts and other regulations that would make it impossible for them to stay in business. You don’t believe me? Look at Canada. Heck – look to New Mexico.

Christian professionals in the health industry will also face severe pressures, because of opposition to abortion. Some will have to give up their careers altogether.

Worst, worst case scenario: arrests, imprisonments, deportations. All for a Christian or two saying, “Jesus Christ is Lord, not Barack Obama!”

The truth of the matter is that socialism always leads to open Marxism, and open Marxism always leads to severe trouble for a country. Worst of all, it also carries with them some severe cults of personality, which we saw in the twentieth century with Lenin, Stalin and Mao. Many people who came to America from the former Soviet countries can tell you aplenty about the oppression they and others suffered, but who wants to listen to them, when so many Americans have been bewitched by the New Messiah? Marxists call religion “the opiate of the masses.” Ironically, America is getting a huge serving of Obama’s opium.

Sadly, the now-dominant voting blocks comprise of Baby Boomers and their children, who have been so enamored of “Imagine” illusions of Utopian harmony that they don’t understand the consequences of all of it. Add to the mixture the many people who would rather get “goodies” from the state than to earn their living honestly, and will probably comprise, with any kind of government worker, perhaps even fifty percent of the total population. That’s not a good prescription for stability, but for chaos. And chaos will come. Things will happen, and the voters who want the “goodies” from the state and others bewitched will seek a scapegoat. And we all know who the scapegoats will be.

Christians, conservatives, Republicans: persecution is coming. Act accordingly.

Oct 18, 2008 - 11:24 am 240. Chuck Pelto:

TO: crafty b
RE: I NEVER SAID ANYTHING> LIKE….

OK.. Chuck. I never said anything like your statement that Republicans are insane. — crafty b

….THAT!

Really. Honestly. Nothing like that at all!

Go right ahead and read the quotes you cut and pasted above. They are slightly different in the adjectives chosen because I didn’t take the time to go back and cut and paste, but the substance of the statements is identical. — crafty b

I used SLIGHTLY different adjectives.

And yet he/she/it claims “substance of the statements is IDENTICAL.
The use of italics is my interpretation of what going through what passes for their mind.

The point here is that I suppose crafty b thinks that perfectly sane people come up with insane policies. Maybe we should elect the truly ‘insane’ in order to get ‘sane’ policies.

Instead, crafty b is back-peddling and trying to confuse the comment by obfuscation. Whereas anyone who knows English and logic well enough can see through the disingenuous dissimulation.

I referenced in both of them “Insanity” in regards to “priorities”. You need to go back to gradeschool english and learn how to diagram a sentance, because you obviously don’t understand what you’re reading due to some form of word dyslexia — crafty b

Oh. Now it’s the ‘priorities’ are ‘insane’. So, again the question becomes a matter of the insanity. Sane people can be counted on to make insane priorities.

Priorities. Policies. Sanity. Insanity. None of these terms seem to matter to you, as you mix them up and (later) use them as you think appropriate to attack those who disagree with you.

And now the name-calling begins in earnest; ‘dyslexia’. How niiiiice…..

Dyslexia is one reverses letters, words, etc. However, I suspect that you’re projecting about dyslexia. Albeit you’ve taken it to a new leve.

I WILL go out on a limb and say I’m starting to believe that YOU are insane (your priorities too, but that usually goes with the territory with an insane person). — crafty b

And now I’m supposed to be ‘insane’. Well. I guess that was coming. And likewise, I guess they’d have me ‘institutionalized’ because I disagree with them, were they given the opportunity and authority. Just like vivo and Godless Homosexual Socialist and M [not so] Bright.

Typical socialist approach to governance; lock-up or kill the opposition.

And as for your “what if” scenario. If we were bombed and could trace it back to Iran or Pakistan, all indications are Barack Obama would go after Iran or Pakistan… and John McCain would invade India. — crafty b

Ha…ha…….ha…ha…ha…ha…ha…ha…ha…ha…ha…ha….aaaaaah!

Yeah. Right.

We’re talking REAL ‘insanity’ here.

I think you’ve got your candidates confused. Barack Obama has ALWAYS remained focused on those who attacked us on 9/11. — crafty b

Show me your proof of that. And while you’re at it, show me his long-term program to prevent future such attacks.

He’s the one who wants to move the war from Iraq (where 9/11 WASN’T planned) to Afghanistan (where it WAS). Barack’s the one who has always wanted to make killing Osama Bin Laden (again, 9/11?) an utmost priority, whereby Bush & McCain forgot about him in their zeal for Saddam Hussein (again, NOT 9/11). — crafty b

Your concept of this war leaves MUCH to be desired. How long do you think it’s been going on, anyway?

So take your titanium partisan blinders off, look at the historical record on who gets distracted from who attacked us and who doesn’t, look at who’s started wars in the wrong country and who was for keeping them in the right country, and answer your own damn hypothetical, mmkay? — crafty b

Answer my previous question about how long this war has been going on.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[History teaches that war begins when governments believe the price of aggression is cheap. -- Ronald Reagan]

P.S. Clinton thought the price of waging war against Sudan and Afghanistan was cheap….

….compared to prime time news coverage of Lewinsky’s testimony before Congress.

Al Qaeda thought it was cheap too.

Iran thinks so too.

Oct 18, 2008 - 11:39 am 241. Chuck Pelto:

Dang!

Sorry about the misplaced bold-off carrot.

Oct 18, 2008 - 11:40 am 242. shrubnose:

The GOP ( Greed Over Principles party ) will slowly ( but surely ) fade away. Hate and fear are poor selling points. That, and changing demographics spells the end of the GOP as a major party . If you doubt this – wait and see.

Oct 18, 2008 - 12:47 pm 243. Dave Surls:

“I think you’ve got your candidates confused. Barack Obama has ALWAYS remained focused on those who attacked us on 9/11.”

LOL. A guy who hangs out with William Ayers is going to dedicate himself to going after terrorists and fight them tooth and nail.

Ha ha ha.

Sure he is.

Oct 18, 2008 - 1:10 pm 244. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: If McCain Loses the Election…..

….a possible scenario.

What is the possibility that if there is evidence of extensive voting fraud in enough states to have thrown the election….

…that when the Electoral College meets it decides, out of moral responsibility to preserve the Republic, to vote for McCain?

It happened in that election in 1876, as I recall, when the candidate who lost the popular vote appealed to the Electoral College that he would end the post-Civil War ‘Reconstruction’ if the elected him.

They did. He did. And we became one nation, again.

We may be looking at something similar here…..

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[To preserve our independence... We must make our election between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. -- Thomas Jefferson]

Oct 18, 2008 - 2:34 pm 245. afuel:

I can see the country going into a further recession and possible depression when the Dems takeover total control. No matter what any dems or their supporters preach taxes will go up dramatically (history has shown), which will further drive large companies overseas to escape the rules, regulations and taxes imposed on them for the priviliage of doing business in America (sarc). The dems owe the unions big time, this means more labor pressures and backroom deals to subsidize union employees or? Again more jobs lost in USA. NAFTA type deals were the US has the nerve to tell sovereign nations how to conduct their labor/union business, environmental laws and human rights is not going to fly, why would you agree to that BS? With the Dems (Maxine Waters and others) now with %10 ownership in major banks do you think they will give up that source of control and money to further their socialist agenda, NO WAY, it will only grow, the goverment never cuts back only adds more. NO Nuke power plants built, oil/gas drilling, enviro restrictions, cap & trade (a whole new phony business created from whole cloth that will further increase costs of energy). You can have all the solar, wind, tidal, hydro you want but this will only add to the overhead of operating the electric grid because you will still have to have a 100% back up from traditional generation to cover for the night time, low/no wind & dark days plus the envir groups will be fighting the new transmission/distribution system that will needed across the country to get the power to markets, all which I see as a gold mine for the attorneys of today and tomorrow (more Dummocrat voters locked in).

Our only hope to stop this socialist encroachment mentallity is McCain/Palin. This gives time for the real Conservatives to get our Republican brand back in order or to form a New Conservative Party. If Obama gets in the Congress & their greatest ally the lying MSM will lay all (RHINOs deserve blame too) the housing/market/economy problems at the feet of private business and brainwash and buyoff the next generation with their lies. Bush has a 30% approval rating but the congress is 10%. So voting Obama insures more of the same and worse.

NO Obama Ever.

Oct 18, 2008 - 3:05 pm 246. Chuck, just Chuck:

To: Chuck(le)
From: Chuck
RE: Lack of Humility

You must be incredibly insecure to have to bring up your military service in EVERY DAMN POST you write on the internet. It gets really old, and instead of making you look good, it makes you look sad.

Regards,
Chuck
[True heroes don't brag.]

Oct 18, 2008 - 3:31 pm 247. Chuck Pelto:

TO: The Dweeb
RE: My History

You must be incredibly insecure to have to bring up your military service in EVERY DAMN POST you write on the internet. — Chuck, just Chuck

Liar. I don’t bring it up “in EVERY DAMN POST”. And anyone with more wit can see that for themselves.

On the other hand, should I be ashamed of what I’ve done? I kind of doubt it.

On the third hand, only the insanely jealous seem to bring up my military service in the manner that you have. Others, just accept it as a point-of-view.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Every man thinks meanly of himself for not having been a soldier. -- Samuel Johnson]

P.S. If you had a life in the first place, you’d not be having a mid-life crisis. — CBPelto

Oct 18, 2008 - 3:47 pm 248. Chuck Pelto:

P.S. I don’t consider myself a ‘hero’. I’m just a simple soldier, fulfilling his oath to his country.

Oct 18, 2008 - 3:51 pm 249. Hankmeister:

Gawed, if what the liberal socialists are saying about how fascist Bu$Hitler, Cheneyhalliburton and RoveHimmler have been the last two years was true, shouldn’t they all have been machinegunned down, picked up by those black helicopters or put in concentration camps already?

I bet if elected and Obamessiah begins using American surveillance programs with or without court warrants in order to track down those of us “threatening” POTUS and the Reid/Pelosi cabal with dead-on criticisms and disapproving rhetoric, they’ll blame Bush for turning this country into a fascist state!

Oct 18, 2008 - 6:28 pm 250. John K:

I’m kind of amazed that there is as much pessimism and fear amongst the so-called conservatives. In 2000 we worked our butts off to get Gore elected and got robbed. We knew that Bush was a twat, but you convinced yourselves that we were just ignorant. Now you want us to believe that a Harvard educated man is somehow a disaster in waiting. I don’t think you have the track record to throw any stones at him – after Bush.

Oct 18, 2008 - 7:30 pm 251. General:

General:

The reason the media and Hassan Obama attacked Joe the plumber is very simple.
It comes out of the Karl Marx book of Marxism. If you can not answer the charge you attack the messanger. Have you noticed they attack Joe. The message and recording of Obama selling his socialism is forgotten and lost. I do not buy any left wing mags or newspapers. Do nt support your enemies. Same goes for the holywood crap. If you have to see the movie rent the dvd and you cut themoff. Better than that just copy a rental. OBAMA LIED STOLE OUR VOTES AND THE TRUTH DIED.

Oct 18, 2008 - 7:38 pm 252. Peter:

Bishop reminds Catholics to remember Judgment Day in the voting booth

Bishop Robert Herman
St. Louis, Oct 18, 2008 / 08:03 am (CNA).- Bishop Robert J. Herman, the administrator of the Archdiocese of St. Louis, has written a column reminding Catholics that their vote will be a decision weighed on the Day of Judgment. He urged Catholics not to treat the unborn as the neglectful rich man treated Lazarus in the biblical parable.

“Judgment Day is on its way,” the bishop wrote in the St. Louis Review. “We cannot stop it. We don’t know when it will come, but just as surely as the sun rises daily, the Son of Man will come when we least expect.”

“For many, this coming election may very well be judgment day, for this election will measure us,” he continued, referencing Christ’s words of judgment in Matthew 10:32-33:

“Everyone who acknowledges Me before others, I will acknowledge before My heavenly Father. But whoever denies Me before others, I will deny before my heavenly Father.”

Bishop Herman asked the faithful to consider what kind of witness they give to God when they enter the voting booth on Election Day.

“The decision I make in the voting booth will reflect my value system. If I value the good of the economy and my current lifestyle more than I do the right to life itself, then I am in trouble,” the bishop wrote.

He cited Pope John Paul II’s apostolic exhortation Christifideles laici, which said outcry on human rights is “false and illusory” if the right to life is not defended to the maximum.

“The right of our children to be protected from destruction is greater than my right to a thriving economy,” Bishop Herman continued.

“My desire for a good economy cannot justify my voting to remove all current restrictions on abortion. My desire to end the war in Iraq cannot justify my voting to remove all current restrictions on abortion.”

Bishop Herman looked to the spiritual dimension as well.

“Those 47 million children our nation destroyed are still living. We have destroyed their bodies, but their souls are still alive. When our Lord comes again, they may very well be there to judge us. Even worse, Jesus tells us that whatever we do to the least of our brethren, we do to Him. We would truly shudder if we heard the words, ‘I was in my mother’s womb but you took my life!’

“It is quite possible that we might see these children, but, depending upon the choices we have made, we may very well be separated from them by a great chasm which cannot be crossed, much as the rich man who ignored Lazarus, the poor man, during his lifetime here on earth but was separated from him after death.”

Bishop Herman said the “deepest problem” with many Catholics is that they have become accustomed to rationalizing away a “life of sinful actions” headed in the wrong direction.

“My goal is not to engage you in some political party way but to engage you with our Savior and His teachings. We need to constantly challenge our accustomed behaviors in the light of the Gospel,” he wrote.

He said the issues of the coming election could help people learn about the teachings of the Catholic Church and to use the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

“When we do this, both we and the heavens will be filled with joy!” he asserted.

“Judgment Day is on its way,” he repeated, encouraging people to pray the family Rosary daily between now and Election Day.

In a previous column for the St. Louis Review, Bishop Herman urged Catholics not to put politics ahead of the Fifth commandment, “Thou shalt not kill.”

“Save our children!” he wrote. “More than anything else, this election is about saving our children or killing our children. This life issue is the overriding issue facing each of us in this coming election. All other issues, including the economy, have to take second place to the issue of life.”

Oct 18, 2008 - 7:40 pm 253. Hassan:

(Gadhafi) “Says Arab world campaign contributions ‘may enable him (Obama) to win U.S. presidency’
worldnet daily ^
Posted on Saturday, October 18, 2008 19:27:54 by dascallie
Oct 18 Mideast leader: Obama a Muslim who studied in Islamic schools (WND) Interesting:
Quote: Says Arab world campaign contributions ‘may enable him to win U.S. presidency’
Posted: October 17, 2008 9:00 pm Eastern
By Aaron Klein © 2008 WorldNetDaily
JERUSALEM – Sen. Barack Obama is a Muslim of Kenyan origins who studied in Islamic schools and whose campaign may have been financed by people in the Islamic and African worlds, Libyan leader Muammar Gadhafi said during a recent televised national rally.
“There are elections in America now. Along came a black citizen of Kenyan African origins, a Muslim, who had studied in an Islamic school in Indonesia. His name is Obama,” said Gadhafi in little-noticed remarks he made at a rally marking the anniversary of the 1986 U.S. air raid on his country. The remarks, translated by the Middle East Media Research Institute, MEMRI, were aired on Al Jazeera in June.
“All the people in the Arab and Islamic world and in Africa applauded this man,” continued Gadhafi. “They welcomed him and prayed for him and for his success, and they may have even been involved in legitimate contribution campaigns to enable him to win the American presidency. “We are hoping that this black man will take pride in his African and Islamic identity, and in his faith, and that [he will know] that he has rights in America, and that he will change America from evil to good…
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojgJu…w&pageId=783

Oct 18, 2008 - 7:41 pm 254. Dawn in Michigan:

Hey don’t worry!!! You will keep running a scummy campaign, lies don’t matter, and people don’t learn. They believe the crap. They brand the dems with high taxes and to much govt. Bush has created the biggest govt, most spending ever, but it don’t matter. I am an independent, supported John in 2000, but this campaign is disgusting. I visted both websites. The republican website is hateful, the dems more positive. God help us all

Oct 18, 2008 - 8:38 pm 255. crowhaven:

McCain is not GOING TO lose..he ALREADY has lost..

Oct 18, 2008 - 10:24 pm 256. Hansel N. Gretel:

The entire Republican Party is lost.

Oct 18, 2008 - 10:48 pm 257. Rubicon:

In case many liberals have not noticed, much of the money coming into the Obama camp, is from the extremely wealthy & large corporation management. That dog don’t run no more. BOTH parties benefit from money from the wealthy & the corporate giants. Both parties are as responsible for our failures. Blaming one party is no longer logical. That position no longer holds water.
Conservatism has not been represented by candidates for the presidency since George Bush. he is not & did not run as a “conservative.” He ran as a “compassionate” conservative, which is something like a liberal conservative, if such a concoction were possible. Bush, just like McCain, obtained the nomination only because independents & moderates & crossover Democrats, voted for them in primaries. In short, they do NOT represent conservatives.
Conservatism is not the villain it is portrayed to be by political hit tactics. Doing good or helping the poor is not the exclusive purview of liberals. Conservatives contribute more to charity that liberals & that has been documented often. The issue for conservatives has always been, “they” want to decide the who, what, where, when, why, how & even if, “their money” is distributed. Conservatives do not trust government or bureaucrats to decide those issues only because often “the system” always screws that up, “after” taking its huge cut.
The UN is the best example of that. They take huge sums of money, that ends up in personal accounts by the way, to do the same giving conservatives do directly through organizations who take minimal cuts to administer distribution. Taking up to 15% is considered reasonable. The Un takes up to 30% & fails. The UN has failed for decades & continues to fail.
The US government bureaucracy under the management of Congress has not done all that well either over the years. But, average people have done a spectacular job, with little or no recognition for their efforts.
Conservatives will not run away. We will be here to rebuild the damaged nation liberals will leave us with. We always have been the builders, the ones who stick even when the going gets tough. We are those whose hands are dirty from work. We are those whose ingenuity has overcome the challenges we have faced for over 200 years.
History is on our side. Socialism has not worked &/or is burdening people around the world. Socialist leaders always tend to migrate into despots. Think Chavez or Castro. In the end, if you take from those making the effort, people tend to stop making huge efforts until they can change the system. Why work hard so some bureaucrat can take it from you & portray themselves as altruistic with your money?
Even Raul Castro has decided to embrace more capitalist programs, as have the Chinese. They know without profits & without people being able to benefit from their toil, all they have is mediocre performance by the unhappy!
We’ll be here as always & we will be the ones to pick up the pieces & fix the mess we will be left with when Obama & his socialist buddies get done screwing up the America our founders entrusted to us!
Ooohrah!

Oct 19, 2008 - 12:01 am 258. Chuck Pelto:

TO: General, et al.
RE: Attacking Joe

The reason the media and Hassan Obama attacked Joe the plumber is very simple. It comes out of the Karl Marx book of Marxism. If you can not answer the charge you attack the messanger. — General

I refer to it as the third option of the Lawyers’ Rule:

[1] If the Law is against you, argue the facts.
[2] If the facts are against you, argue the Law.
[3] If the Law and the facts are against you, call the other side names. — The Official Rules: A Compendium of Truths and Laws for Living

And it holds true in just about any engagement of this sort.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[There is nothing new under the Sun.]

Oct 19, 2008 - 3:22 am 259. Chuck Pelto:

P.S. If you think these attacks are bad now….

…..just wait until The One gets into the Oval Office and has the FBI, IRS, BATF and possibly even the Army to do his bidding.

Oct 19, 2008 - 3:24 am 260. vivo:

217. Pelto:

It’s confirmed: your brain it’s really messed up. Sorry.

Oct 19, 2008 - 3:58 am 261. Northern Light:

First, Claude Castonguay is not “The architect of Canada’s healthcare system.” He’s a Conservative who said that healthcare shouldn’t be run by the Catholic Church in Quebec in the 1960s. Tommy Douglas was the architect of Canada’s healthcare system and he never renounced it.

It seems that the terms “socialist”, “Marxist”, and “conservative” are being bandied about too freely here. Barrack Obama is no socialist.

As to you conservatives, during the Republican primaries the only conservative running was Ron Paul. Judging by the results only about 10% of Republicans are actually conservatives. I didn’t support Dr. Paul, but I respected the fact that he did not compromise his beliefs. You conservatives should have nominated Paul. He wouldn’t have won (then again, neither will McCain) but he would have espoused core conservative beliefs that Adam Smith could have supported.

All you John Galts should stop associating with the Elmer Gantrys, Buzz Windrips, and Henry F. Potters in the Republican Party

Oct 19, 2008 - 6:28 am 262. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: vivo & Projection

It’s confirmed: your brain it’s really messed up. — vivo

He just keep proving it over and over again. You would think he/she/it would learn, but I get the impression they are lacking in actual attention from anyone, so negative strokes, being the only sort they get, they keep coming back for more.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[The Truth will out.....]

Oct 19, 2008 - 7:22 am 263. Benjamin:

The Republicans have made a disastrous mess out of our country and trampled all over the constitution in the name of executive privilege and right wing nut jobs feel so threatened by Obama and, I suspect, their culpability in causing this mess by championing W. that they’ve all come down with Tourrettes and keep screeching “Socialist, marxist, arab, terrorist!” out loud.

Oct 19, 2008 - 11:49 am 264. endominum:

Conservative plays on fear are just not going to work this election cycle. Face it…the guy you elected the last 8 years turned out to be the worst president in the history of the US. It is your just desserts that noone is going to listen to you this time around. Learn some integrity and call us back in 2012, but for now shut the f up!

Oct 19, 2008 - 2:42 pm 265. Russian Bear:

Dave Surls says:
If we can survive the inept, incompetent and even criminal presidencies of Wilson, FDR, Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, Clinton, then we can probably survive Obama as well.

I would like to add: “If you have been able survive the disastrous presidency of George W. Bush…”

Actually, it is easy to run such a state like the USA. It is a well tuned machine. Even Sarah Palin could do it. Though Collin Powell thinks different. May be because it is not very easy in the crisis period?

Anyway, I am going to laugh at the neo-cons from this site on November 5, 2008, by saying “Gotcha!”

Oct 19, 2008 - 2:44 pm 266. JD:

“I’m afraid of brown people. I’m afraid the rich (5% of total population) will leave the country because they don’t want their taxes to be raised a little bit (and be cause they are America-hating traitors). I’m afraid of mythological WMD’s and I’m afraid of the dark(ies).” Wow. All the republican base has left is their fear and pride. It’s kinda sad, in a way. But the age of fascist, repugnant, sickening fear-politics is almost over, I hope. I did enjoy a recent Science article that concluded Republican voters are generally fearful voters. Now, I know what you are going to say: science and knowledge are liberal conspiracies. But a message to the Republican base: don’t be afraid!

Oct 19, 2008 - 5:52 pm 267. Subotai Bahadur:

Mr. Hawkins, if I may, you seem to be operating under a common misapprehension. It is not merely a matter of two years in the wilderness, then another chance at an election. I ask you to name one authoritarian Socialist regime that was ever voted into power and then allowed free elections afterwards. Given the threats, the computer crime, the assaults, the attempts to criminalize political opposition, and the blatant nationwide voter fraud committed by the campaign, and aided and abetted by elected Democrats; the odds of this lot of totalitarians allowing another election with any meaning are vanishingly small. There may be refugees heading to Canada, for specific reasons; but I suspect that most will stay and fight to honor their oath. I do note that once open action against the Constitution is taken, every registered Democrat and every supporter will be accomplices in the crime. It will be too late at that point to claim that what happened is not what they meant. They will be held responsible to history and to our posterity for their actions and choice of allies.

Oct 19, 2008 - 7:14 pm 268. Thomas Paine:

My father told me many years ago that he feared that I would have to fight for my country against an enemy that called himself my brother, my leader, my countryman. I thought he was being melodramatic. I am sorry dad, I wish I could tell you that you were wrong, but it was me that was wrong. I don’t think pitch forks are going to be enough this time though. It was a good experiment, from 1776 to 2008, but all good things must come to an end. We either become two countries as semi-friends or we become two countries as enemies. Death to Tyrants and Live Free of Die.

Oct 19, 2008 - 9:39 pm 269. AZVoter:

265 russian bear

Hate to tell you but under Bush we do not have 21% mortgages. We don’t have inflation out of control and we don’t have a president begging us on TV to grow up and get our patriotism and hard work ethic back. By the way no attacks since 9/11. Jimmy Carter II is not good for any of us

Oct 19, 2008 - 10:28 pm 270. George B:

If Barack Obama wins, lots of guys like Joe the plumber moonlight for unreported cash income.

I would like to see congressional Republicans ditch the seniority system and promote some new blood into leadership. Guys like Jeb Hensarling, Eric Cantor, Mike Pence, John Shadegg, Jeff Flake, etc. could argue for or against programs based on solidly conservative principles. Newt lost many battles, but we won welfare reform, 6 year term limit for Republican committee chairmen, a lower tax rate for long-term capital gains, and an end to national speed limits.

Oct 19, 2008 - 10:45 pm 271. Dave Surls:

“I’m afraid of brown people.”

Don’t feel bad. Democrats and “liberals” have had that affliction for generations now. At least you aren’t alone.

Oct 20, 2008 - 1:47 am 272. CJ:

If Obama wins in November, America will come to regret this election rather quickly.

Also, this is a new type of politician. FDR, JFK, Jimmy Carter at least were not ultra-left wing lunatics. They were not associated with known terrorists and at least they loved their country.

Obama is nothing but a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

The Republican party has been asleep at the wheel. However, the American media has been very hard at work at suppressing the Republican message and helping the Democrats frame Republicans into what they are not.

Democrats claim that Republicans are racist. Really? Last I saw it was the Democrat Party who fought FOR slavery and who fought LBJ tooth and nails to not pass the Civil Rights Act. Al Gore’s dad and KKK Byrd in the forefront of opposing LBJ.

Furthermore, if Democrats are so great, why haven’t they been able to eliminate poverty? Since the 1960s all we have heard from Democrats is that poverty must end. They have even implemented their programs and have these ended poverty? of course not.

Democrats are the richest members of our society and the richest members of Congress. Democrats receive the most contribution from corporations, millions more than Republicans. Democrats are THE filthy rich party. I find it amusing when I hear a Liberal/Democrat claim that Republicans are only for the rich. HA! I guess they haven’t checked into who is financing each party.

Democrats are the least tolerant people on planet Earth. They claim to be open minded. Only an uneducated fool falls for this. Democrats are the most closed minded people in the world. The only time they are open minded is when you agree with them. Let us not forget that their “Hate Speech” is code word to suppress opposing point of views.

Fear what is coming, it is going to get ugly before the sun shines again.

And yes, the Republican party has been a disaster for a while. I hate to say it, but it is true. I was in denial for a long time, but the Republican party needs to gain back its discipline. We can’t throw stones at the glass houses of Democrats when our houses are also made of glass.

I take solace that if the Obama wins, Republicans and Conservatives will wake up, sharpen their message and in 2010 we will win by a land slide Congress. However, two years of Obama and a Democrat control Congress will do incredible damage to this nation.

One more thing to ponder, I was talking to my grandfather and father, both from Spain and they both said that they fear that America is moving towards a Spanish Civil War like era. They see the same type of atmosphere, attacks, ignorance, etc, etc, etc that led to the Spanish Civil War.

Oct 20, 2008 - 7:55 am 273. deguello:

CJ I fully agree,however, sometimes a clogged toilet needs to be flushed.

Oct 20, 2008 - 2:43 pm 274. vivo:

262. Chuck Pelto:

vivo is a he.

Hope this saves you some typing strokes.

Oct 20, 2008 - 3:19 pm 275. Monday Links : Stop The ACLU:

[...] Clarence Thomas: How to Read the Constitution Stanley Kurtz: Something New Here John Hawkins: What if McCain Loses? Patterico: Evidence of Obama-Ayers Tie Sent Down the Memory Hole . . . Almost! Weekly Standard: [...]

Oct 20, 2008 - 5:31 pm 276. woman:

I’m not worried about what the repubs will do, but what will happen if obama looses?
He campaigned for odingo (his cousin/father’s tribe whatever) in kenya and when he didn’t win they tried to burn down the country. So much so that they had to give him almost a joint position. What will happen here? Glad I don’t live in LA or chicago or new orleans or new york etc.

Oct 20, 2008 - 8:31 pm 277. Dave:

Obama loses, and the streets EXPLODE.

Obama wins, and the taxes go up. Taxes go up, business cuts cap-ex and freezes hiring and unemployment goes up. Business tax revenues go down, income tax revenues go down. Obama promises the moon to the poor, then finds himself terrifically underfunded to pay what he ‘owes’ them. His original plan to cut military funding and unilaterally disarm this country of nuclear weapons is expanded, MORE military spending is cut. Still there is a shortfall, and his increase of the capital gains tax cuts revenue even further, driving away investments in capital and putting it in coffee cans in the backyard instead.

In the great tradition of Dinkins and the subway ticket, when revenues go down the PRICES/TAXES go UP to compensate. This drives revenues even FARTHER down.

Business fled New York under this circumstance, rising taxes and declining revenue, the spiral. Exxon left, lots of big companies left, New York declined dismally for years in every way.

But how can Americans flee America? Movie stars threatened to leave for years, but never did, dammit.

THis military spending, and the GIGANTIC reduction in new enlistments and re-enlistments because of the Obama “CIC” influence, causes our enemies to decide they are invincible, and attacks on American business and government overseas dramatically rise. THis hurts American business even more, forcing them to reel in all their foreign employees and cut down their foreign business, and this hurts tax revenues even more.

And needless to say, if we were worried about overdeployment BEFORE, then in this circumstance we might not be able to deploy at ALL, because our military would be understaffed, underfunded and its leadership afraid to cross the civilian supervisors in DC with recommendations to improve things.

And with no real military superiority anymore, attacks commence and increase in the USA, causing more shrinkage of business expenditures and more unemployment and more ‘bunker mentality’ of the American citizen and small businessman.

Gawd, what a future. I wonder what will happen in the SECOND year?

Oct 21, 2008 - 6:28 am 278. Dave:

BTW, everyone complains about ExxonMobil’s profits.

Last year they made $32 billion profit. They paid almost $87 billion in taxes.

But the $32 billion is the figure people call unfair.

Even though they paid MORE THAN TWICE that much to government.

Who will pay that $87 billion when ExxonMobil cuts foreign expenses and risks, reels itself back in to the US and becomes a tenth of its former size out of self-defense in a Democrat rule? How will cutting down ExxonMobil make America stronger or make more money go to washington?

Killing golden geese, Democrat specialty.

Oct 21, 2008 - 6:32 am 279. john bamberger:

if mccain looses, life will go on,, but I will then be forced to pay an additional 10% in federal taxes, and additional 15%( im self employed) on all my earnings for payroll(SS) and I will not Hire any additional employees for my business,,, I am estimating at current levels Obama will cost me an additional $152,000.00 per year in additional fed and payroll taxes,, or 2 very well paid employees..

Oct 21, 2008 - 8:58 am 280. gg:

I think that if Obama wins, the gears towars Socialism grind on and the only option for the AmericansAgainstSocialism is to refuse to feed the machine – refuse to pay taxes, refuse to grow your business, move accounts out of the country, etc. The machine needs our tax dollars to feed the sanke – Let’s starve the snake!

Oct 21, 2008 - 9:26 am 281. Jeff:

I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat but a true Independent who believes in facts and really believes in learning the lessons of our history.

So here is a simple fact for America -
1) During Ronald Reagan’s Presidency of 2 terms, between 1981-1989, we were at our economic best in a quarter of a century. We made the right choice in these 8 years as a country.
2) During George H. W. Bush Sr.’s Presidency of 1 term, between 1989-1993, we were at our economic worst in a quarter of a century. We made a huge mistake as a country but corrected it by keeping him in office for only 1 term.
3) During Bill Clinton’s Presidency of 2 terms, between 1993-2001, we were again at our economic best in a quarter of a century, even better than Reagan’s era. We made the right choice again in these 8 years as a country, despite his personal scandals.
4) Now, during George W. Bush Jr.’s Presidency of 2 terms, between 2001-this coming January 20, 2009; we have been at our economic worst in a quarter of a century, even worst than Bush Sr.’s era. We really made a huge mistake as a country on this one by not realizing that the apple really doesn’t fall very far from the tree. Yet we chose this apple again the second time around.

Now, really let this simple fact sink in America and take your time to think carefully this time around about how you want the direction of this country to go.

We made history with Reagan. We then made a mistake with Bush Sr. but corrected history by allowing him to only serve 1 term. We then made history again with Clinton, despite his personal scandals. Now, we have made 2 mistakes with Bush Jr. by allowing him to serve not once, but twice. So my last question to America is, guess which candidate shares the interests of both, Bush Sr. and Bush Jr.? I will let America answer this one. We are much, much smarter as a country to want to make history rather than make mistakes and to suffer yet again from our own mistakes by not using objectivity as our first and foremost agenda.

Oct 21, 2008 - 10:02 am 282. Jeff:

What people don’t understand is why some of us are so against the current Republican ticket, but we have an obligation to fight against history of ever being repeated again. Many of us out here are not fighting for the Democratic campaign but are fighting against an ideology.

1) An ideology that completely mirrors the ideology of this past 8 years.
2) An ideology that recognizes the few while completely disregarding the masses.
3) An ideology that believes in taking military action against Iraq, an incident that is completely unrelated to 9/11, without solidifying our claims beforehand. In the present, we have found no evidence of weapons of mass destructions or a tie to Osama Bin Laden. The devastation of this war has cost us over 4,000 of our brave troops and counting, over 1/2 trillion dollars of taxpayer’s money and counting, and over 1 million Iraqi lives unrelated to the terrorists or insurgency.

Cost of the Iraq War — http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home

4) An ideology that still believes that the Iraq War is the right war on terrorism when the Afghanistan War should had been the right war on terrorism, where Osama Bin Laden actually was until he slipped into the mountains and into Pakistan’s territory now. The Iraq War also diverted our attention away from the Afghanistan War. We now have extended our resources in two separate places and have heightened our risk to our troops, our expenses, and creating another dilemma that will take quite some time to finalize. The Iraq War will not go away overnight and it is now our obligation to see it all the way through for God knows how many more years. This has also been the most unpopular war in the eyes of the world’s communities.
5) An ideology that believes that we are at our safest state since 9/11, when a recent terrorist plot was still trying to enter Great Britain’s airports with liquid explosives heading directly to us, but thankfully the plot was foiled. While in Afghanistan, the terrorists are regrouping and strengthening and we have recently suffered another high casualty to our troops yet again within this past month. We currently have the least amount of alliances in the world’s communities due to this unpopular Iraq War. True national securities are the ties that bind us to our world’s communities and the ties that bind them to us.
6) An ideology that vetted one of the most inexperience VP ticket in history, from foreign policies to national defense. If God forbids that anything happens to this President if elected and is stricken with illness, this VP will be running the country. For a more compelling look at Sarah Palin’s VP readiness, please look at these links below —

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loUHRv3ipLE

http://www.salon.com/opinion/walsh/election_2008/2008/09/30/palin_gaffes/

7) An ideology that believes in “the fundamentals of our economy are strong” while we are facing the highest mortgage foreclosure crisis, high unemployment rate, and the largest collapse of our financial infrastructures since The Great Depression of 1929.

This is an ideology that many of us in America are against. Whether this ideology is in the Republican or Democratic ticket is not the main issue but the fact is that America does not want to fall into another 4 more years of devastation. We cannot afford this anymore.

Oct 21, 2008 - 10:04 am 283. Roark:

Obama will win because McCain doesn’t defend capitalism or freedom FROM government. He’s simply diet Obama. The USA doesn’t need a crack-pot like McCain who screwed us with McCain-Feingold and voted against the Bush tax cuts, hence his very base is telling him to piss off, as they rightly should.

Oct 21, 2008 - 1:32 pm 284. PanicStations:

We have 13 days to save our Country. Think on this.

We are not going to be able to prevent the Democrats dominating The House of Representatives AND The Senate after this election.. If Obama takes The White House then our beloved Country will be controlled by a Three-Headed-Monster – imagine it – OBAMA-REID-PELOSI. We will lose the checks and balances that are so essential to our political well-being. The good ol’ USA will become an ELECTIVE DICTATORSHIP.
Barack Obama is an arrogant control-freak. With a subservient Congress he will rule our Country like a Pharaoh – a God-King or an absolute ruler like Stalin or Hitler. Remember ‘all power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely’. Hitler was a charismatic leader with a power of oratory that was hypnotic and which created outbursts of emotional ecstasy and hysteria amongst his devoted followers. We’ve all seen Barack Obama do this to the throngs that attend his rallies. Did you see Obama control the masses at Denver and St Louis? I am genuinely worried about where this is all leading to. Look at ‘Leni’ Riefenstahl’s film called ‘Triumph des Willens’ – ‘Triumph of The Will’. The whole 104 minute film is on YouTube. It was filmed in 1934 as Hitler hypnotised his adoring followers, in processions and rallies in Nuremburg. Hitler’s movement was ‘National Socialism’. Ring any bells? You will see haunting similarities with Obama’s rallies. I don’t believe for a moment that Obama would stoop to the worst depravities of Hitler, but I am convinced that he WOULD create an OVERBEARING and OPPRESSIVE STATE. Hitler, in his speeches, emoted about peace and the classless and unified people controlling the state. If you are charismatic and you tell a big lie and you tell it often enough and well enough, with conviction and eloquence using a form of words that can’t be unravelled, then you can deceive millions of people – especially if you are telling them what they want to hear. This is a form of brainwashing. This is what Barack Obama is doing. Don’t be deceived by his ‘million-dollar’ smile.

WAKE UP. WAKE UP with a jolt. WAKE UP in a cold sweat.

It’s time to man the PANIC STATIONS, but it’s NOT TOO LATE. We must ram home this message for the next 13 days and work non-stop to get out the vote for John McCain.

We have the opportunity to have John McCain, a real-life American hero and a man with vast experience and proven sound judgement, as our President. John McCain is a man we can trust and a man who will have a positive, constructive relationship with the Democrat controlled Congress and the American people. Most Democrats deep down inside know that they can trust John McCain and that he would make an excellent President. COME ON! COME ON! LET’S MAKE IT HAPPEN!

Oct 21, 2008 - 8:32 pm 285. Edward Campbell:

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government.
It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.”
The average age of the world’s great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence:
from bondage to spiritual faith,
from spiritual faith to great courage,
from courage to liberty,
from liberty to abundance,
from abundance to selfishness,
from selfishness to complacency,
from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency,
from dependency back to bondage.
Alexander Tyler 1747-1813

let’s all keep blogging while we lose our country.
When the Almond Tree Blossoms.

Oct 21, 2008 - 8:37 pm 286. vivo:

284. PanicStations:

“We have 13 days to save our Country.”

You had 8 years to quell your panic.

Besides your paranoia is that, paranoia.

Oct 22, 2008 - 3:42 am 287. Sheila:

Jeff – surely Soros is paying you enough to do more than just cut and paste the same crap over and over again.

Oct 22, 2008 - 7:03 am 288. Mike:

“Also, conservatives love our country too much to make empty threats about moving to Canada, which is essentially just a less free, more liberal version of Massachusetts anyway.”

Well… We have one province in Canada that stands as a vanguard of “small-c” conservatism and free enterprise. Alberta! (We also have a conservative federal government right now in Canada that is steadily reducing personal and corporate taxes.)

But some facts about Alberta:

-Second-largest oil reserves in the world, next to Saudi Arabia
-A 10% flat corporate tax rate.
-A 4% corporate tax rate for small business corporations (i.e. those with net income of $400,000 a year or less).
-Of all Canadians provinces, it has one of the highest percentages of American citizens as residents – (we’re not anti-American here).
-A flat 10% personal income tax rate.
-Abundant natural resources.
-Highly educated and skilled population.

Think of us as Texas North.

For those of you out there wanting to still make money and get ahead, please consider moving your capital to Alberta. (You can still love America at the same time.)

Oct 22, 2008 - 10:27 am 289. Chuck Pelto:

TO: vivo
RE: Really?

“vivo is a he.” — vivo

Ask me if I care. As he/she/it doesn’t seem to have the gonads I would expect in an AMERICAN male.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[He hasn't got a hair on his a--....., i.e., no woman in her right mind would trust him with her children.]

Oct 22, 2008 - 1:43 pm 290. Chuck Pelto:

TO: All
RE: ‘Jeff’

If anyone in their right mind believes Jeff’s statement….

“I am neither a Republican nor a Democrat but a true Independent who believes in facts and really believes in learning the lessons of our history.” — Jeff

Then they must have been dropped on their head as a small child. Especially in light of his follow-on comment wherein he says….

“What people don’t understand is why some of us are so against the current Republican ticket….” — Jeff

SERIOUSLY!!!!

This is someone so deep in the ‘tank’ of The One’s kool-aide, that they can’t even couch their terms in anything that relates to what an independent would say.

Regards,

Chuck(le)
[Wolves....Sheep....and interesting camouflage.....]

Oct 22, 2008 - 1:52 pm 291. Julius:

The last sentence sums it up: “But unless something changes the conservative movement and the country are going to have hell to pay for the feckless leadership we’ve had from the Republican Party over the last few years.”

Hellooo – We DO have hell to pay for the feckless ‘leadership’ we’ve endured. We are paying it and we will be paying for it for many generations. Write the number ten and then put twelve zeroes after it. That is our debt in dollars, thanks to the Republican ideology of deregulation and pre-emptive war. The U.S. spends more on military than all of the other countries in the world combined.

Obama must win so that an adult can come in and clean up all the dirty diapers the Republicans have left in their wake.

Oct 23, 2008 - 9:52 pm 292. Mr, Batts:

What now?

Nov 4, 2008 - 10:19 pm 293. Mr, Batts:

I’s devestated. I live in Philly, there were celebratory gun shots already.

Nov 4, 2008 - 10:20 pm 294. Mr, Batts:

I mean “I’m”. Don’t want to be considered a racist.

Nov 4, 2008 - 10:21 pm 295. Kelley:

Well this was pure prophecy wasnt it?

Jul 16, 2009 - 9:53 am

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